[00:00:00] Carl Lanore: [00:00:00] Repair to experience the strongest radio allowable by law will be revealed. This is

[00:00:13] why it's super as human radio with your host.

[00:00:31] Welcome back to another episode of superhuman radio. Today is October 1st, 2020, and the year is sliding into the last quarter. Thank goodness, 2020 is almost over. Hopefully 2021 will be a lot better. Anyway, um, we have a really important show today. I've probably done more shows about menopause than any other podcasts are out there.

[00:00:51] Not just because I've been podcasting longer than anybody else out there, which I really have, uh, this November will be 15 years. [00:01:00] Um, but because I understand what it feels like to go through medical. Oh, sorry. Um, back in around 2002. I was using a lot of performance enhancing drugs. I was using lots of aromatase inhibitors to, to keep the conversion of testosterone from converting over to estrogen and high amounts.

[00:01:21] And I caused some symptoms and every time I would search for them on the internet, I would. Inevitably you'll arrive at some menopause website, hot flashes, sleeplessness anxiety, um, confusion, brain fog. I mean, I couldn't work. I couldn't, my life was derailed. And back then I started saying. You know, if men went through menopause, they treated a little bit differently.

[00:01:47] Most doctors dismiss women, you know, Oh, you know, it's the change of life. Get used to it. I mean, if guys had to go through that, they would know somebody said they punch him. Um, but anyway, we're going to talk about [00:02:00] the appropriateness of HRT in women who have. Had their ovaries removed and there's a variety of reasons we'll discuss why women may have their ovaries removed.

[00:02:09] And just a moment before we get started, I have to thank my title sponsor, which is legendary foods. Eat legendary.com. The code is SHR 10 to 10% off. If you are a low carb, low sugar, high protein person, you will find the amazing snacks at legendary foods. Eat legendary.com SHR 10 for 10% off. So welcome to the show, dr.

[00:02:35] Stephanie Favian. How are you?

[00:02:38] Dr. Stephanie Faubion, MD: [00:02:38] I am, well, thank you so much, Paul. I'm delighted to be here.

[00:02:43] Carl Lanore: [00:02:43] So you heard my little intro and I kind of told you off the air also what happened to me and it was scary. Um, I really thought that I, I, at first I thought I was going crazy. I mean, I would wake up in the middle of the night with anxiety.

[00:02:57] I actually drove myself to the emergency room one night. [00:03:00] And, and every time I would search for my symptoms, because I felt like a ghost, I felt like I was haunting my own house. My wife was sleeping, my children were sleeping. I would go to sleep. And inevitably about two hours after going to sleep, I would wake up in a panic and then I would haunt the house.

[00:03:17] I used to say, I was haunting the house. I'd walk around the house. I'd peer in, wind in bedrooms and people were sleeping soundly. And I think, Oh, I wish I could sleep. And then I'd go downstairs and I get on the laptop. And I start searching for these symptoms. And I ended up almost always at a website called power search.

[00:03:34] I don't even know if it's still around, but this was a website where women went to share answers about menopause symptoms. And I was afraid to post because I'm a guy it's like, what am I doing here? You know, it was just weird, but it was at that moment that I realized that, you know, menopause could actually.

[00:03:55] Uh, force a woman to give up the last third of her life.

[00:03:59] Dr. Stephanie Faubion, MD: [00:03:59] Yes. You're [00:04:00] exactly right. And your comment about, um, thinking that you were dying as it struck me, but I have had more than one patient. I work at the Mayo clinic and I have had more than one woman come in and midlife. Really thinking she's dying because all of those symptoms are concerning.

[00:04:16] There can be weight gain and hair loss and anxiety symptoms and these night sweats. And if you look that up on the internet, you're going, Oh my God, I'm dying of something and it's horrible and it's happening now. And, you know, I really attribute this to a lack of, of education. So I always tell my patients, you know, how we get the talk when we're in 15.

[00:04:38] Great or so, and they tell us what's going to happen to our bodies when, when we start our periods, women never get the talk when they're about to stop their periods, that they're reproduced lifespan. And so it leads to a lot of, a lot of anxiety and fear about these symptoms that occur. And as you mentioned, these are not uncommon symptoms and they're not.

[00:05:00] [00:05:00] Short lived for most women, they're going to last for quite a long time and we're learning more and more than that benign either for a number of reasons, both in terms of longer term health risks, but also in terms of economic impact. So lost work productivity, um, more healthcare expenses. So these are not benign symptoms.

[00:05:21] Carl Lanore: [00:05:21] Yeah. And, and the reality is, and you, you said lack of education. Uh, I interviewed a scientist probably four or five years ago, maybe six years ago. And we talked about the fact that research doesn't use female rodents because of the pesky hormone estrogen. Like they don't want to, they don't want to have by chance ruin the outcome and end points of this study because of that, they actually called it the pesky hormone.

[00:05:45] I'm like, so these drugs that they're developing. They don't even know if they work in women half the time. That's

[00:05:51] Dr. Stephanie Faubion, MD: [00:05:51] so true. And you know, that that's true. So back in the day, and even still today, and a lot of cases, they didn't want to use female [00:06:00] animals and studies because they couldn't tell what, what time of the cycle they were in.

[00:06:05] They bled, they did irritating things like get pregnant, so they didn't use female animals. And it was only in 2016. 2016, that, that, um, the NIH required reporting of the sex of the cell or the animal and required inclusion of women in studies. This did not happen until 2016. And even though scientists are now reporting the sex of the animal or the cell or the.

[00:06:35] Person in their studies, they don't always just aggregate the data by sex. And what that means is they might say the results of the study and they might say we had, you know, 50% women in there, but they don't look at the results based on sex. So we are still having trouble understanding if that drug or if that device, or if that treatment is the same.

[00:06:57] In men as it is in women or, and vice [00:07:00] versa. So this keep in mind, this also helps men's health. If we determine how men are different from women and how women are different from men, it helps both men and women.

[00:07:11] Carl Lanore: [00:07:11] Excuse me. So let's talk about this research. Um, I understand hysterectomy, but obviously, um, Ovari ectomies or what do you call them?

[00:07:22] Oh, Oh, for ectomies. Is that the proper terminology? Well,

[00:07:26] Dr. Stephanie Faubion, MD: [00:07:26] overestimate typically when you're talking about humans.

[00:07:28] Carl Lanore: [00:07:28] Okay. Uh, so when women, uh, let's say, have been identified as having the Brocka gene, which tends to, um, make them more predisposed to ovarian cancer as a prophylaxis, they'll elect. To go and have their ovaries removed, but they're also really creating an early onset of menopause.

[00:07:51] Right.

[00:07:53] Dr. Stephanie Faubion, MD: [00:07:53] Exactly. Exactly. So average age of menopause in the United States is about 51.4 years. And [00:08:00] so, um, women with a VRC gene mutation are at increased risk, not just for ovarian cancer, but for breast cancer too. And so they might elect to have their ovaries out early to reduce. Not only ovarian cancer risk, but also breast cancer risk.

[00:08:13] And the recommendation now for women with that blackout, one whole thing is this earliest as taking those ovaries out at the age of 35. So, so when you think about that, that's really inducing, menopause, and not, not gradually suddenly with a surgery at the age of 35, as opposed to the normal age, which is a little over

[00:08:33] Carl Lanore: [00:08:33] 50.

[00:08:34] Okay. So now these women immediately started developing those symptoms that all women develop and may, uh, when they go through menopause and it's horrible. So they, they, they, they do this great thing. This heroic thing, they say, okay, I'm going to go in and have my ovaries removed so that I'll be here for my family and be here for myself and be productive and not have to worry about this all the time.

[00:08:59] But then. [00:09:00] They come home and I got to believe within a matter of weeks, they feel like someone else, they feel horrible. They start having hot flashes. They can't sleep. Uh, vaginal dryness, all these things just pop up. Bob do, first of all, do physicians counsel there, patients that are going in for elective, uh, uh, surgery like this.

[00:09:20] Hey, when on the other side you life's going to suck.

[00:09:26] Dr. Stephanie Faubion, MD: [00:09:26] I wish it happened more than it does in our own clinics. Now we've set up an, a, we have made an appointment ahead of time, mandatory to discuss just that. Um, because often women don't understand it and sometimes it happens not within weeks, but within hours of surgery that women are feeling pretty miserable.

[00:09:45] Um, now one important point is it, it is really important to distinguish. Um, women who have their ovaries out for a need. Uh, for example, the BRACA mutation would be a legitimate need to reduce a [00:10:00] very significant risk of ovarian cancer, but there are still many women out there who are undergoing a removal of their ovaries were, um, Less medically sound reasons.

[00:10:13] Let's put it that way. Um, and there, unless there is a really, really defined need to remove the ovaries. They should not be removed. And unfortunately that is still happening in the United States quite a lot. So, so the importance here is to emphasize that before anyone suggests you get your ovaries out before the age of 50, you really need to talk to an expert about that and make sure.

[00:10:39] Carl Lanore: [00:10:39] So, so give me an idea of what or less medically sound. I know that women who have, um, uh, PCO S sometimes if a cyst burst, they'll be told that they have to have the ovaries removed. Um, I know that some women undergo hysterectomy because the endometrium is changing and the doctor goes in while we're in there.

[00:10:58] We'll just take your ovaries [00:11:00] to, like, what, what, what, what give, give the women listening to the show. Give me an idea of what you consider less medically sound that you should go and have a second opinion.

[00:11:10] Dr. Stephanie Faubion, MD: [00:11:10] I think anytime anyone is suggesting ovaries come out for a non-malignant reason. So if anytime it's not a cancer or a risk for a cancer, it should, you should think twice.

[00:11:21] So that includes pain. That includes endometriosis. That includes SIS. That includes. We're getting your uterus out. We might as well take your ovaries. I mean, that should never be done anymore. Um, so, so really there are very few reasons that a woman should have her ovaries out before the natural agent mattifies with the exception of my cancer or a very high risk for a cancer.

[00:11:43] Carl Lanore: [00:11:43] Yeah. Okay. You know, it's funny because my ex wife, we were in Chicago on vacation with the kids, and I only had two children at the time and she ended up having a, an emergency appendicitis at Northwest Memorial and they said, I'll never forget. I was sleeping on that little, tiny love [00:12:00] seat in the solarium.

[00:12:01] And the surgeon comes out and wakes me up. It was a woman too. She says, look, uh, we got the appendix all taken care of, but now that we're in there, we think we should go ahead and just do a complete hysterectomy because she's had this dripping from the appendix, it's caused a lot of scar tissue. And I said, well, did you ask her?

[00:12:20] And then she goes, well, we can't ask her she's under the anesthesia. I says, no, I can't give you orders. To take her. I says, if I went to sleep and I woke up without my BS, I'd want to know who, who, who authorized that, you know, like who the hell so said, you could do that. And I'll never forget it. She bristled.

[00:12:38] And she said to me, well, you're just going to have to have it done later. And she'll never be able to get pregnant again. And my ex wife cried for two years. She got pregnant after that.

[00:12:47] Dr. Stephanie Faubion, MD: [00:12:47] See, there you go. There you go. And that's a very good point because how often do we go up to Matt and say, we're just, you know, you don't need those tasks.

[00:12:56] Carl Lanore: [00:12:56] Yeah.

[00:12:56] Dr. Stephanie Faubion, MD: [00:12:56] We're just going to post those out. We [00:13:00] don't do that,

[00:13:01] Carl Lanore: [00:13:01] but women see and that's, and that's that's because I really feel that medicine has ignored women and almost relegates them to. You know, it's in your head. Oh, you know, go away. It's just really, you know, let me give you Xanax. It just takes Xanax.

[00:13:19] Go, go. And I really do think medicine does that. Now, now that we have more women in practice, I think it's less and less and less, but I think, you know, 30, 40, 50 years ago, men just dismissed women and take her ovaries and get her out of here. Yeah,

[00:13:33] Dr. Stephanie Faubion, MD: [00:13:33] exactly. Just be done with the problem, but, but I think it's important to note yeah.

[00:13:37] You know, these symptoms of menopause, um, I mean we used to Pat women on the head and say, it'll be a year or two. There is going to be a short lived. Don't worry, it'll be fine. And we now know that menopausal symptoms at the normal menopausal age. So I'm talking about women who are in their fifties. The mean duration of symptoms is seven to nine years.

[00:13:57] And about a third of women are going to hot [00:14:00] flash, moderately to severely for a decade or longer. So these are not short wow symptoms. So when I talk to women with symptoms, I say, okay, think about this in the law longer haul. Um, because if you can get by with it for a month or two, that means that may not cover what we need here.

[00:14:15] This, these symptoms may go on for quite some time. So if you're really bothered by them, we need to really do something about it.

[00:14:23] Carl Lanore: [00:14:23] So now let's talk about HR T excuse me, I've done numerous studies on, on HR for both men and women. And a lot of the emerging research kind of contradicts the whole women's initiative study.

[00:14:36] And we don't know. What portion of what they learned there was because they were using equine estrogens. And what portion of it was because they were using methylated estrogens that increased thrombotic index and all that sort of stuff. But what we do know now, and we're starting to see a clear picture that, that HR, we can protect the woman's heart, her brain, uh, improve the quality of life.

[00:14:58] Obviously mitigate a lot of these [00:15:00] symptoms, but. These symptoms aren't necessarily life threatening, but your heart and your brain are. So what about HRT for these women? They've just had their ovaries removed to get, we'd have extra dial. That's going to cause cancer. And now a doctor's going to say, okay, we're going to give you a, whether biodentical or some other preparation, and we're going to give you extra dial now.

[00:15:22] Dr. Stephanie Faubion, MD: [00:15:22] Yeah, I know that sounds a little crazy. Doesn't it? Um, so you brought up several important points. Um, one, let's just talk about the term HRT for a couple of seconds. So we're not, we're no longer calling menopausal hormone therapy. Replacement, because think of it this way for a woman at the average age of menopause, who is 50, we are not trying to replace what her overused to make.

[00:15:48] We're trying to make her symptoms better. So for that woman who is over 50, we're just calling, calling it menopausal hormone therapy now. But when you talk about a 35 year old, who got her [00:16:00] ovaries out, we are. Actually trying to replace what the ovaries used to make. So in that case, the term replacement would be very appropriate.

[00:16:09] So for that woman, what we know, you brought up a really important point too, about heart and brain risk and bone risk. Those are the three that we really are concerned about is the risk for heart disease, the risk for osteoporosis, the risk for dementia. And when you take a woman's ovaries out into five, her best surgeon at the age of 35, she is at significantly increased risk for heart disease, for osteoporosis or Parkinsonism, for memory loss, for dementia and even early mortality.

[00:16:40] So yes, we did reduce her risk of breast cancer, and we did reduce her risk of ovarian cancer, but we increased her risk of pretty much everything else. And so we, we. Took into account that balance. And when we looked at all the data, there really is no data that giving a little bit of estrogen [00:17:00] back to these women that we took their ovaries out.

[00:17:02] There's no data that we're increasing her risk of breast cancer. So she still did herself a benefit by, by taking the ovaries out. But if we give some back. To help protect her bones, her brain and her heart there doesn't, we don't appear to be increasing her risk of breast cancer. And we're talking about giving it back at least until the natural age of menopause.

[00:17:23] So about the age of 50 51. So that is the current practice for those women who have a BRCA mutation. Who have not had breast cancer. Okay. So that's key. If they have had breast cancer, it's a whole other discussion, but they ha if they have not had breast cancer and we're moving, removing the ovaries and the ovary, there was no ovarian cancer.

[00:17:45] We still tend to give those women estrogen at least until age 50 or so.

[00:17:50] Carl Lanore: [00:17:50] So it's funny. Um, there's a doctor in Toronto. She's got a, an Italian name and I can't remember it, but I communicated with her when I first started doing this [00:18:00] podcast because my sister died from Parkinson's, it's a disease and they did a study on rodents.

[00:18:08] Um, back back in the sixties in New York. When I was a child, all the junkies would developing Parkinsonism because they were cutting the heroin with the industrial solvent called MPTP and lo and behold science has found a use for it. Now they use it in labs. When they want to create a Parkinson's model, they'll give rodents MPTP and they develop tremor and Parkinsonism within hours.

[00:18:34] And this doctor. I wish I could remember her name. She took rodents and one group, she infused with saline and one group she infused with extra dial and saline, obviously, you know, the fluid. And then they gave the rodents MPTP and the sham a road in state develop Parkinsonism that day, you know, within hours.

[00:18:58] But the group that was getting [00:19:00] infused with. Extra dial, which stood developing Parkinsonism the six weeks. And when I read that study, I thought, why aren't they giving people with Parkinson's disease? Esther dial men, men, men, men develop Parkinson's five fold more frequently than women until women go through menopause.

[00:19:22] Yup.

[00:19:22] Dr. Stephanie Faubion, MD: [00:19:22] Yeah. So estrogen is protective of, of the, um, many aspects of the nervous system. So that's a, that's a very interesting finding. I hadn't heard that before. And then,

[00:19:32] Carl Lanore: [00:19:32] and then the other thing I want to say about extra dial that's important. We all talk about chronic inflammation. Everybody's talking about chronic inflammation, inflammation causes disease.

[00:19:41] It's linked to senescence cell development, blah, blah, blah. Well, extra dial. Doc's in a receptor called the fibroblasts activation factor, receptor FAF, and immediately suppresses inflammation dramatically. Like if you're in a car accident and your head hits the windshield, your brain, [00:20:00] because of the aromatase enzyme, immediately start to aromatase androgens into estrodiol and it stops the brain from swelling.

[00:20:06] That's how powerful extra dial is. And this idea that we just don't need it. It just, it just drives me crazy when I, when I hear that kind of stuff.

[00:20:15] Dr. Stephanie Faubion, MD: [00:20:15] Yeah. Well, and especially if you look at the data, it's very clear for women who have early menopause and less, there is a dire reason not to take it like an estrogen sensitive tumor, like a breast cancer.

[00:20:27] There is, there is absolute clear data on the benefit of women using it, at least until the natural age of menopause.

[00:20:35] Carl Lanore: [00:20:35] Now you, you are with an organization called the North American menopause society, correct? Correct. Yeah, medical director. And you have a website called menopause.org where women can go and read and practitioners can go to there's a lot of practitioners who just really don't.

[00:20:56] They don't have, they have their hands around this. They don't understand it. They can go [00:21:00] there and be trained through your organization as well. Right.

[00:21:03] Dr. Stephanie Faubion, MD: [00:21:03] Yes, we have, um, yeah, I'm certified menopause practitioners certificate. So there's a, um, a program where you can become certified in menopause management and then, um, that certification is made available to the public.

[00:21:17] So, um, we, we train people to be experts in magnifies and you can actually go to the website and type in, uh, your, your location and find. A certified menopause expert near you.

[00:21:29] Carl Lanore: [00:21:29] So in this study that was recently published, and I know you're not one of the authors, but they're there within your organization.

[00:21:35] There are they, is there a recommendation to physicians who are treating women who have never had a breast cancer or ovarian cancer, and they have chosen to have their ovaries removed as a protective mechanism against them. Uh, developing cancer. Plus they have the Brocket. Jean is, is the recommendation to, to give them low doses, just get them out of the woods kind of doses or give them [00:22:00] doses that, bring them back to whatever their age appropriate levels would have been.

[00:22:05] Dr. Stephanie Faubion, MD: [00:22:05] The latter, um, they should have doses that bring them back to the, to the normal premenopausal range. And again, there is no evidence that doing so increases the risk of breast cancer. Um, so, so yes, absolutely. This, the sad part is that we, we know that these women typically don't. Get estrogen until the age of 50 for a variety of reasons.

[00:22:27] Either they're fearful or their provider is fearful. Um, but these, these women often don't get Astra, the estrogen that they need until that menopausal age

[00:22:38] Carl Lanore: [00:22:38] there, there was a, probably a decade ago when, uh, replacement therapies became popular for women. There was this notion that there was a short window of time.

[00:22:53] Uh, once the cessation of the period occurred, amen, Maria, um, that if you didn't get on [00:23:00] HRT, it actually would be bad for you, but that seemed to have changed. Recently. There seems to be emerging research that there are women out there who are getting on very, very late in life, ver 10, 15, 20 years after the cessation of their period benefiting from, from a hormone replacement.

[00:23:17] Where, where does your organization stand on that?

[00:23:21] Dr. Stephanie Faubion, MD: [00:23:21] Well, I think the data, um, you know, not to go back to the whi, but there has been some recent data out of the whi that I'd like to talk about later with regard to breast cancer risks specifically, which was favorable. Um, but let's go back to this window of opportunity a bit.

[00:23:38] Um, the whi is the only randomized controlled clinical trial that we have on hormone therapy. That's that is robust. Um, and, and that supplies, this data specifically, and actually, um, the elite trial also did, but there, there is definitely a window, um, in terms of cardiovascular risk. And that, [00:24:00] that is probably within 10 years of your last menstrual period is where that window is.

[00:24:06] If you're beyond that, there you go is probably not decreased and it may be increased in terms of cardiovascular risk. Give me a radically, you would still get bone benefit if you started it later, um, as a and earlier, but you're going to get more benefit if you start it earlier because you won't lose as much bone.

[00:24:27] So I think it's pretty clear, um, that, and also. All of the medical societies suggest that starting it earlier is better. Um, so there was not a single medical society out there that recommend starting at after 10 years after your last menstrual period. And to be honest, those women are not the women and our office is asking for hormone therapy of symptomatic women.

[00:24:49] Who's hot flashing and night sweating and not. Sleeping and brain fog. Those women don't wait 10 years to come into your

[00:24:56] Carl Lanore: [00:24:56] office

[00:24:58] Dr. Stephanie Faubion, MD: [00:24:58] or in your office running away. [00:25:00] Um, so, so those are the majority that's that's who really should be considering hormone therapy, not the 80 year old, not the seventies.

[00:25:08] Carl Lanore: [00:25:08] They don't have, they don't have symptoms.

[00:25:09] They they've, they've been through it. And if they had any symptoms they're long, long gone now, Uh,

[00:25:14] Dr. Stephanie Faubion, MD: [00:25:14] we would like to think, but I still have a fair number of 70 year olds in my practice who are still on hormone therapy, because they're still having hot flashes.

[00:25:23] Carl Lanore: [00:25:23] I want to take a quick commercial break. When we come back, I want to talk about a few other things as it relates to cancer in general.

[00:25:29] Um, we're talking with dr. Stephanie. Fabian that I just, I say that right. Fabienne. Okay. And she is the medical director at the North American menopause society. The website is menopause that all go there to learn more. We're going to take one quick commercial break and we'll be right back with more superhuman radio move over superheroes.

[00:25:51] This is this superhuman channel.

[00:25:56] Welcome back later in the show, we're going to talk about food prep. [00:26:00] A successful dieting and weight loss requires that you pay attention to food, to the food that you eat, and it requires you to prep your food. You can't just spontaneously go, Oh, it's 12 o'clock. I got to go get something to eat and a convenience foods play a role in that.

[00:26:17] So that's later in the show right now, we're talking with dr. Stephanie Favian and we're talking about menopause, really? Um, so there is a. A lot of great emerging research in the epigenetics area. We, we, we know from twin studies that women who have the BRC gene don't necessarily develop breast cancer, ovarian cancer, some do some don't.

[00:26:42] Is your organization looking more at epigenetic effects on these genes and, and lifestyle and things that could influence, uh, the onset of these cancers?

[00:26:53] Dr. Stephanie Faubion, MD: [00:26:53] Well, yes, not only the onset of cancers, but what is the impact of that genetics [00:27:00] and estrogen? On aging and on women in general. And so, um, you can't ignore epigenetics.

[00:27:08] So we know the genes, don't tell the whole story because your lifestyle, how you live, your life impacts the expression of those genes. So a gene could act in a different way, depending on whether you have a healthy lifestyle or whether you have an unhealthy lifestyle. So I think we all need to understand that just because we're set up with a set of genes going in and testing your genetic makeup may be helpful for some clear diseases that, that have a lack of BRACA mutation, for example.

[00:27:40] But again, it doesn't matter to you of getting a disease or not getting a disease and what you do in your life and what you're exposed to like tobacco smoke or. Or toxins or, um, again, what you put in your body in terms of food makes a huge difference. The amount of sleep you get, [00:28:00] for example. Um, so, so we have an impact and we have more of an impact than we think we do on the outcomes, uh, of our genetic makeup.

[00:28:09] Carl Lanore: [00:28:09] Are you familiar with dr. Thomas Seyfried's work a cancer as a metabolic disorder or disease?

[00:28:15] Dr. Stephanie Faubion, MD: [00:28:15] I don't think so. No.

[00:28:17] Carl Lanore: [00:28:17] Some really amazing research. And he published a book called cancer as a metabolic disease, where they took the mitochondria from cancer cells and implanted them into healthy cells and vice versa.

[00:28:30] And they determined that the mitochondria changes first before the uncle gene switch. And that once the mitochondria, excuse me, has switched to anaerobic respiration. Where now, you know, uh, it, uh, advanced it, it's looking for sugar, right? Glycolysis. Um, this is, this is what triggers the cancer and his book [00:29:00] shows that diet is really the first domino.

[00:29:04] And which leads me to this next question. So there is an emerging theory that the reason that. Postmenopausal women develop body fat is because their body is trying to replace the extra dye. All that the ovaries are no longer making by increasing fat cells. You increase aromatase. And so you end up having higher, um, that's your dial levels, which also means that lean women tend to have tougher.

[00:29:33] Menopausal symptoms and, and, and more, uh, robust, robust, you know, uh, women who have more body fat, subcutaneous body fat tend to have less, uh, of their symptoms. Do you see that at all? Just anecdotally

[00:29:48] Dr. Stephanie Faubion, MD: [00:29:48] actually, no, the reverse is kind of true. Um, have your women tend to have worse menopausal symptoms? Then lean are women.

[00:29:55] Um, but, but this is a very complicated, um, scenario [00:30:00] and, and maybe anthropologically, you could have said that the postmenopausal woman is trying to replace her estrogen, and that's why, that's why she develops more body fat. But I think it's more, the other way around. We lose estrogen. And we develop more body fat in the wrong places.

[00:30:16] And we turn into more men like men. So we're, we're turning more into apples than pairs and that increases our cardiovascular risk. Um, but in clinical practice, no, actually we know as the heavier women that have worse symptoms I have had is very interesting. Um, women who are on hormone therapy after, after magnifies, who lose weight.

[00:30:39] Tend to get more hot flashes then. So, so what hormone therapy does was working for them before, uh, can sometimes not be enough if they lose enough fat and the fat was producing estrogen. So sometimes their estrogen requirement might go up if they lose weight. So what you're saying, there's a certain component of that.

[00:30:59] That's [00:31:00] true. But I think women who are heavier sweat more and so they're, they tend to have more symptoms.

[00:31:05] Carl Lanore: [00:31:05] Okay. Um, the other thing is the complexity of a woman's cycle, the ebb and flow of progesterone and estrogen oxytocin and everything else, um, is very complex. And, and there's a unique signature to every woman.

[00:31:21] And then to just give a static dose of, you know, these hormones, it is, isn't there a way to kind of go, okay, we need to. We need to look at women and, and we need to give them these hormones at this period of time and more of a cyclical dose. Do you think that would be beneficial for women?

[00:31:42] Dr. Stephanie Faubion, MD: [00:31:42] We don't know.

[00:31:43] Uh, so the answer to that is we don't know if there is any benefit to, um, creating a cyclical pattern after menopause or not. In fact, I was just in a research meeting just before this podcast and we were having that very [00:32:00] discussion of whether we were sort of recreating. Um, and we were talking about.

[00:32:04] Obesity and obesity management and women on hormone therapy. And did we need to sort of recreate the premenopausal status with its cyclical nature? We're not. And the fact is that no one knows. So we don't know if there's any benefit to that post mattifies.

[00:32:19] Carl Lanore: [00:32:19] Yeah. And then, and the part B of that, that question is.

[00:32:24] I see a lot of physician too, do hormone replacement therapies for women who give them the prescribed dose. You know, this is the starting dose of this and that and the other thing and, um, send them home and then they check their levels and they go, Oh, well, you're, you're in these ranges. Are you, do you have any symptoms?

[00:32:44] No, I don't have any symptoms. And then, okay, you're done. But I, you know, when I look at the luteal phase and the follicular phase, and, and you look at how projesterone is here and estrogen is there. I often wonder if HRT should focus to [00:33:00] put a woman permanently in the loo phase or the follicular phase.

[00:33:06] Like, like shouldn't, shouldn't there be, be like a, a, like we, women will do better in this phase. As opposed to that, because we know that progesterone and estrogen, when they ebb and flow, they cause a lot of, a lot of physiological issues and mood and stuff like that. To doctors. When, when doc is the current prescribing method to say, okay, we want to put a woman from now for the next 10 years until she's 51.

[00:33:34] We want to put her in the follicular phase or the luteal phase or the audio Tory phase, because that's where women do the best.

[00:33:41] Dr. Stephanie Faubion, MD: [00:33:41] Okay. Let's, let's separate this answer into women who are under the age of 50, so that those young women, like we're talking about with BRACA and the women.

[00:33:51] Carl Lanore: [00:33:51] Okay.

[00:33:52] Dr. Stephanie Faubion, MD: [00:33:52] So, so first let's talk about women over 50.

[00:33:55] Um, and those women, we are not aiming to get to a certain hormone level. [00:34:00] Um, we are only aiming to manage their symptoms. And so, and so we don't draw levels. There's no recommendations, check levels and women over the age of 50, we're just managing symptoms. And if we manage the symptoms, that's all we need to do.

[00:34:14] Um, but for women under the age of 50, um, there is growing concern about the fact that we don't know what dose. Were hormone level was adequate to protect the brain, the heart and the bone. We have the most data on the bone, like how much hormone therapy is needed to protect the bone. We don't have that data on the heart and the brain.

[00:34:37] And so, so currently some investigators actually at the Mayo clinic are looking at just that. And is there a certain blood level? Or dosage that achieves, um, uh, those outcomes of reading the saying that the markers of heart disease, risk and brain function, et cetera. So, so we're looking at that, but no one knows what, [00:35:00] what levels are adequate, but, and more, we are trying to at least aim.

[00:35:04] For the normal premenopausal range, right? So that estrogen range is 80 to 120 grams per ML and sometimes normal post-menopausal doses. Don't get a younger woman there. So, so it's sometimes actually fairly difficult to get a woman to that range with her menopausal doses. So your question is quite valid, but unfortunately we just

[00:35:27] Carl Lanore: [00:35:27] don't have that.

[00:35:28] Yeah. Why 50 to 51? What? Like, it seems like a dirty trick. Okay. You know, you had your ovaries removed for Brocka. We put you on hormone replacement therapy. You feel great. You're doing great. Life is wonderful. No symptoms. Oh, you're 51. We're stopping now. Why? Why not just let them go.

[00:35:47] Dr. Stephanie Faubion, MD: [00:35:47] Well, again, we don't have a lot of data in the breakup population of are we then increasing risk.

[00:35:54] We know you, we got you to at least the average age of magnifies, and that should be enough to [00:36:00] protect your bone and your brain and your heart, um, up until that time. Um, but from then on it, it's kind of gravy. If you will. Um, I hear you. It seems like cruel and unusual punishment for people who are doing well, but that's where the breast cancer risk factors in.

[00:36:16] I will let you know what I was going to tell you earlier, the women's health initiative, some recent data, and this was just published in the last month, came out and they looked at those women who had had a hysterectomy who were on conjugated, equine, estrogens alone. No progestogen. And they looked at the mortality.

[00:36:36] And the breast cancer incidents and mortality related to breast cancer and breast care cancer incidents up to the present time. So this is 17 years, right? Um, so what they found is that CE conjugated, equine estrogens, compared to nothing compared to placebo, that there was a lower incidence. Uh, breast cancer [00:37:00] in those women on conjugated equine estrogens, there was also a reduced breast cancer mortality, significantly reduced breast cancer mortality in women who were on estrogen compared to nothing.

[00:37:11] And now that other group, the women with a uterus who also had to take them the dropsy progesterone acetate to protect that uterine lining. Increased incidents of breast cancer, but no increase mortality after that longterm followup. So it's actually quite reassuring data regarding hormone therapy of that particular type.

[00:37:31] So we're, we're not, we're not extrapolating gastro dial because we really can't. But with conjugated equine estrogens, it was very reassuring regarding the breast cancer risk.

[00:37:41] Carl Lanore: [00:37:41] I wonder, I wonder what feeling good and being actively engaged in life. Conferred on that outcome. In other words, you know, when, when women go through menopause, they feel horrible.

[00:37:54] They don't move anymore. They don't want to do anything, you know, and then, but if you feel good and you're still active and you [00:38:00] move in. And then also a lot of times, women who are hot on hormone replacement therapy tend to be very. Mindful of what they eat. You know what I mean? They cause they know that, Oh, there's the little boogeyman back here.

[00:38:13] Something, you know, I gotta be careful. I wonder if, if taking the, the conjugated equine estrogens also caused some sort of lifestyle changes that helped confer those effects.

[00:38:27] Dr. Stephanie Faubion, MD: [00:38:27] You know, that's, that's a good thought and that's called the healthy user bias. Um, so that women who use, um, hormones tend to be healthier anyway, is the theory there, but that doesn't hold true for a randomized controlled clinical trial because the women on placebo also thought they were

[00:38:43] Carl Lanore: [00:38:43] getting a drug, right?

[00:38:45] Oh, what a jerk? What a dirty trick. I'm sorry.

[00:38:49] Dr. Stephanie Faubion, MD: [00:38:49] Again, also the women in the women's health initiative study were not symptomatic, so they got on a drug when they had no symptoms.

[00:38:56] Carl Lanore: [00:38:56] That's fascinating. I want to take our last commercial break. And when we come [00:39:00] back, I want to wrap up the discussion and ask what you hope clinicians and lay people take away from this research and, uh, uh, cover that stay tuned.

[00:39:08] We'll be right back with more superhuman radio. This is the superhuman channel, where we use oxygen for the power of doing

[00:39:21] welcome back. We're talking with dr. Stephanie  from the North American menopause society. Their website is menopause.org. You can go there, learn more. If you're a physician, you can go there and really learn more and help more patients as well. So, what, what do you hope, um, clinicians take away from this recent research?

[00:39:45] Dr. Stephanie Faubion, MD: [00:39:45] You know, I, I, a couple of things, one, um, we should not be taking ovaries out that don't need to come out. So that is number one. Let's not get ourselves into this situation. We don't absolutely have to be here. And number two, [00:40:00] a women with a BRC gene mutation who have not had breast cancer, we're very in cancer and take their ovaries out early for risk reduction purposes should take hormone therapy up until the natural age of metaphors.

[00:40:13] Um, so I think those are the two key points from this study.

[00:40:18] Carl Lanore: [00:40:18] Yeah. It, it, you know, on the flip side, there's so many approaches that we've developed as it comes to, um, That affects sex hormones. You know, sex hormones are so important to us. They convey so many benefits, you know, from an evolutionary perspective, we have one job on the, the planet that have offspring and then, and then die.

[00:40:40] And when you think about the importance of that from a species specific standpoint, anything that has to do with procreation is a big deal. Like I've been saying for years on the show that. If you lose your libido, start looking for what's wrong with you because once you libido is gone, you're not going to be around much longer.

[00:40:59] That's the Canary [00:41:00] in the mine. And if you, if you start to think about sex hormones, because the word sex is attached to them, it's like a parlor. You know, we have to giggle, you know, it's like, we need to start thinking about sex hormones as improving. And extending life. And you know, they do this to men with prostate cancer.

[00:41:19] They give them androgen deprivation therapy, horrible gives them the testosterone levels of a 14 year old girl. I did a show back in 2006, uh, from a doctor dr. Paul godly with Rutgers. They wrote a position paper on behalf of the American cancer, the journal of the American camp. That's a society and they did a meta analysis.

[00:41:42] Of a vast amount of research and they said, androgens do not cause or tribute to prostate cancer. In fact, they found that it correlated more with sex hormone, binding globulin, then androgens, and the letter was designed to tell [00:42:00] doctors that robbing a man of testosterone is not going to protect his prostate.

[00:42:05] And, you know, it's horrible when we do things. That interfere with sex hormone production, because that pretty much runes life. And then I I've had this conversation with people. Well, my dog lives longer. We're not dogs, you know, don't tell me your dog lives longer. If you, if you're new to him, we're not dogs.

[00:42:23] And, and to your point, any doctor who's thinking of taking a woman's over, we should ask himself a question. What? I want someone to take my testicles for this reason. And if you say no, so then don't take that woman's ovaries.

[00:42:36] Dr. Stephanie Faubion, MD: [00:42:36] Yeah, I think, I think that is the key point. Um, you know, I think one concept that a lot of people don't get is that estrogen.

[00:42:45] So our main primary sex hormone for women, um, there are estrogen receptors in every tissue and organ system in our bodies. So this is not just about the ovaries. It's not just about the breasts and it's not just about sex [00:43:00] either. It's really about the health of. Our entire body. So when we lose estrogen, it has affects everywhere as well.

[00:43:08] And especially when we lose estrogen before we're supposed to lose it and midlife. So, so there are key things, things that are happening better necessary. And, you know, we're just at the very infancy about of trying to figure out. What all estrogen does in our bodies and the effects that it has. So we are just at the very beginning of trying to sort all of this out, but one thing is clear that is that taking the order out before they, um, they.

[00:43:36] Aren't working anymore as a really bad idea. And, and to that point, even at the age of 50, when we start our periods around that time, we think the S the ovaries are still putting out small amounts of hormones probably until the age of 65 or so. So there's problems. The only benefit to not taking them out, even after we stop our periods, they're probably still doing something to maintain health.

[00:44:00] [00:43:59] So, so again, even, even if you stopped your periods, I there's, there's very little reason to take your ovaries out unless you're at high risk for cancer.

[00:44:07] Carl Lanore: [00:44:07] Don't ovaries make testosterone also is not aware. Women makes the little amounts of textiles

[00:44:12] Dr. Stephanie Faubion, MD: [00:44:12] about about half. The testosterone for women comes from the ovary and the other half comes from the adrenal glands, but testosterone production from the ovary.

[00:44:21] Um, doesn't, doesn't go through a menopause if you will. So we don't stop testosterone production at magnifies, but rather it's a slow, steady decline with age such that between the ages of 20 and 40, just like in men, our testosterone levels have. Uh, as production produced by the ovary. So we have a decline in Testa, testosterone production, just like men do between the ages of 20 and 40, but we don't fall off a cliff in terms of testosterone levels at mattifies, right?

[00:44:49] Carl Lanore: [00:44:49] Yeah. We just become grumpy and mean slowly. So, um, then a price when he did a lot of his research, uh, [00:45:00] with the indigenous cultures of what we would call Hunter gatherers today, um, he found that their women didn't go through menopause until probably in sixties and even older. How much, how much, um, does lifestyle and environment play?

[00:45:15] Cause I know women can go through menopause from traumatic events. So how much does our lifestyle and environment play in? Why women go through menopause at around 51 and not 61 or 71?

[00:45:28] Dr. Stephanie Faubion, MD: [00:45:28] Yeah, that's a good question. So over that amount of time, we've been monitoring age at menopause. It really hasn't changed all that much.

[00:45:36] There have been there's some variations in terms of overall health, for example, um, one was a famine or a war, um, and women are thinner and their knee. Nutrition's not as good. They tend to go through menopause a little bit earlier. So in first world countries, It's about the same. It's about 50. Um, and in third world countries that tend to be a little younger.

[00:46:00] [00:46:00] So no doubt that, you know, lifestyle and, um, food availability, uh, health in general is going to have an impact on the age. I don't know that, um, we're ever going to get to where we're having menopause. It's 60 on average, but, but you know, it it's, it's stayed pretty consistent for the developed world.

[00:46:19] Carl Lanore: [00:46:19] The Madonna Del Grossey Institute on menopause.

[00:46:22] I think they're in Rome. Italy. Are you familiar with them at all? No. Okay. So they did a study probably about eight or nine years ago. No one's ever reproduced a study, so nobody takes it with any real value, but they gave women melatonin. Three milligrams of melatonin. All of these women had been aiming to Reik.

[00:46:40] They had not had a period in at least six months. Um, and they, and they were having that, you know, their periods were really whacked out. They, none of them were coming regularly. And, uh, and so they gave them three milligrams of melatonin. They, they, they required them to do take it at this, whatever [00:47:00] sundown was in their part of the country.

[00:47:04] And all of the women regained their menstrual cyclicity now no one has ever taken this study. Seriously. I've talked about the study probably 12 years ago. Cause it's that old, um, because no one's ever reproduced it. Well, what do you think about that? From what you know about the body.

[00:47:24] Dr. Stephanie Faubion, MD: [00:47:24] I don't know what to say about melatonin and the effect of the ovaries.

[00:47:27] And it just makes you wonder if women weren't sleeping and regulating their sleep cycle, help them. Yeah, get back on a regular schedule, who knows, I don't know what to make of that, but for sure, you know, as we get closer to menopause, it can be anything that sort of knocked us off, um, to where we're not things aren't working.

[00:47:47] Right. And I tell women that I said, okay, You know, it could be that you have an illness, you get the flu and your ovaries don't work for a couple of months, but then they might come back for a while or you might have a significant psychosocial stress, [00:48:00] a death in the family and your ovaries don't work for a couple of months, but it sort of happens in that way.

[00:48:05] But eventually the ovaries are just going to stop working with time. Um, but I have no doubt that physical stress, emotional stress, um, can have an impact on ovarian function.

[00:48:15] Carl Lanore: [00:48:15] Last question, senescent cells. We talk a lot now about senescent cells since about 2014. Uh, I take six milligrams of rep myosin once a week.

[00:48:25] Uh, I become very close friends with dr. McKell black Escalona he's the trailblazer. He was an oncologist who, who discovered how. Uh, rap myosin, uh, and azithromycin, you know, kind of destroy. They, they, they changed senescent cells back into quiescent cells. Do we know if there's any senescent cell accumulation and ovaries?

[00:48:48] Dr. Stephanie Faubion, MD: [00:48:48] Uh, well, I'm not a basic scientist. I'm sure there are senescent cells that accumulate in ovaries as time goes by, because really when we're looking at a very in function, That the [00:49:00] w the middle we're born as females. We started Louis follicles. So we are born with the highest number of follicles or eggs that we're going to have when we're born.

[00:49:11] And, but by the time we actually start our periods, a good number of them have. Becomes a mess and I'm died. So, so yes, no doubt that is occurring throughout our lifespan and the speed at which it occurs is that is the question, right?

[00:49:25] Carl Lanore: [00:49:25] Yeah. Okay. Listen, fascinating stuff. I love this work. I hope more people listen to you, uh, especially clinicians and treating their patients.

[00:49:35] Uh, thanks for being on the show. Dr.

[00:49:36] Dr. Stephanie Faubion, MD: [00:49:36] Fabiano. Thanks so much. It was my pleasure. I appreciate

[00:49:40] Carl Lanore: [00:49:40] it. Uh, we're going to take a quick commercial break. And when we come back, we're going to talk about food prep in order to have successful weight loss, I have to create a diet menu. And in order to do that quite often, it requires food preparation [00:50:00] and food preparation can be a real pain in the neck.

[00:50:03] That's why a lot of people don't want to do it. Well, we'll get to talk about is. When there are choices out there of food, instead of so convenient, they make food prep almost do itself. So stay tuned. We'll be right back with more superhuman radio. We'll be move over superheroes. This is the superhuman channel.

[00:50:33] Welcome back to supreme-a radio with joined by Corey Conklin from select savory snacks. How you doing Corey?

[00:50:39] Cory Conklin: [00:50:39] I have. Wonderful,

[00:50:41] Carl Lanore: [00:50:41] wonderful, wonderful. So we're going to talk about diet for a second. People who want to lose weight, they have to learn to food prep. That's the only successful way. That's why companies like Jenny Craig and, uh, these shake companies.

[00:50:55] They people use those. Because if they're left to their own [00:51:00] devices to prepare three or four healthy meals a day, they just don't do it. They can't do it. It takes too much time. They have to work. They got to take the kids to soccer. So the reality is if food prep is the key to success in a diet, then convenient sources.

[00:51:19] Of healthy foods are the success to food prep. And that's where biltong comes in. I want to talk about that for a second, but also that's also where that's also where the spices come in too, because foods eating the same foods day in and day out, get boring, but you can change the way they taste if you have access to spices.

[00:51:43] So, first of all, I want to tell the audience a secret that I have been using. And Corey knows this because he was surprised that I went through a pound of biltong in two days. Um, so one ounce biltong is 16 grams of protein. Think about it. That folks, one [00:52:00] ounce of biltong is teen grams of protein. So the average person is eating between 30 and 40 grams of protein per meal.

[00:52:08] If they're eating fiber six meals a day or four or five meals a day. So what I would do is I would take a complex carbohydrate. Of some sort and it could be, um, potatoes, it could be rice. And then I would take two ounces of biltong, throw it in a bag. I'd wait. And that was a meal. That was a whole meal that took me literally like 30 seconds to do.

[00:52:32] You were surprised how fast I went through the biltong. Weren't you?

[00:52:36] Cory Conklin: [00:52:36] Yeah. Well, If I compared it to my kids, actually, that was probably not as quick as them they're growing kids. So they need all the protein they can get.

[00:52:45] Carl Lanore: [00:52:45] Yeah. Yeah. But

[00:52:47] Cory Conklin: [00:52:47] yeah, it makes life so much easier to just pick your starch, pick your there's, your protein.

[00:52:52] It's already there. And as we know, most people don't get enough protein in their diet anyway, and they sit there and well, how can I get more? I'd like to set [00:53:00] with one ounce server, you've got 16 ounces, right? Or 16 grams of protein right there. You can very easily with our biltong and our drill bores. Ah, get the protein that you need in your diet

[00:53:10] Carl Lanore: [00:53:10] very quickly.

[00:53:10] And it's delicious. Everybody who bought this biltong can't believe how good it is because it's tender. It's moist, it's dense and it's delicious. And I mean, part of the reason I go through it so fast is because it tastes so damn good. I mean, it's amazing. We have a, we actually have a listener in South Africa named Andre.

[00:53:36] Who messaged me a couple of weeks ago and said, I can't believe that you have bill toddle on your show. That's a, that's a popular, uh, meat product here in South Africa.

[00:53:47] Cory Conklin: [00:53:47] And actually the people that we partnered with are one of the largest manufacturers of built on in South Africa. So this isn't somebody in the U S who said, let's start making it this.

[00:53:56] These are the people that do it for a living where biltong is [00:54:00] the most popular in the world. And they said, Hey, we need to expand our, our, um, Our presence and they came to the U S so we partnered up with them, uh, to, to offer this, you know, sugar-free additive free, healthy eat snacks, make everybody's lives easier with, uh, food prep and snacking.

[00:54:16] Carl Lanore: [00:54:16] Well, now let's talk about the sugar-free for a second. So everybody wants to avoid sugar. If you are a fan of beef jerky, chances are, you're getting about as much sugar as in an Oreo cookie and a single serving. Think about that next time. Well, yeah, I think about that next time you eat your beef jerky to go.

[00:54:33] How many have beef jerky? That's a good snack. What would would eating an Oreo cookie with it have been a good choice. Of course not. Nope.

[00:54:42] Cory Conklin: [00:54:42] Uh, one of our customers that actually took pictures of, of, uh, organic beef jerky. And when you flip the package over her ounce had 12 grams of sugar

[00:54:53] Carl Lanore: [00:54:53] per ounce

[00:54:55] Cory Conklin: [00:54:55] ounce.

[00:54:56] They, there was more sugar than there was a fat and

[00:55:00] [00:54:59] Carl Lanore: [00:54:59] protein. Two, two ounces of that two ounces of that has as much sugar in it as a, as a regular Pepsi. I think that's 24, 24 grams of sugar in a can of Pepsi.

[00:55:11] Cory Conklin: [00:55:11] And you figure if anyone's like you or me, you're eating the whole bag, not a serving. You're going to hit, you know, a hundred, a hundred plus grams of sugar real quick.

[00:55:21] If. If you just stick to the marketing on the front. Oh, it's organic. It's healthy. Eh, flip it over and look at what else is in there. Uh, you'll be surprised.

[00:55:31] Carl Lanore: [00:55:31] Mmm. Sorry. I was looking at a text message. I thought somebody was sending me a message about the biltong. So our audience has an amazing opportunity to save 15% off all orders of select savory snack biltong.

[00:55:44] If you go to the URL, S H R network.biz/s S S that's lower lowercase. SSS. You'll be transported to a page. That will not only save you 15% off the single best [00:56:00] meat snack in the world. I guarantee it, if you buy a bag of this biltong and you say this sucks, send it to me, I'll buy it back from you. I'm serious.

[00:56:09] Cause I'll leave. Just, don't just, don't spit in it to like get even with me, but I'll buy it back from you. I really will because this stuff is amazing. I have 10 pounds on the way right now. Just think about that for a second. So. The other thing that you have there that is worthy of discussion. When we talk about food prep.

[00:56:27] So, you know, if you eat chicken for every meal, like a lot of people in our audience, do I, my go to thing was mustard. I just squirted mustard and then dipped it in mustard. You don't have to do that. Talk about some of the spices that you have and the quality of the spices that you have that will make everything taste great.

[00:56:46] Cory Conklin: [00:56:46] Yep. All of our spices, first of all, our fresh gourmet. Sugar free additive free. And we small batch produced them to keep them fresh. They are also, and when you look at them, something we do does. So we actually put a package on date, on [00:57:00] all of our seasonings because you get about a two year shelf life out of spices.

[00:57:03] So you could look at that add two to the year and you know exactly how old it is. I've gone to the store and pick the jars with spices. The expiration date was four years away. I have no clue how old that was and because of that, It tastes it's it. The flavor is so much more full to the point. I tell people, start with half of what a recipe calls for, and you can add more as you go some of our best sellers, like our ranch tactics seasoning.

[00:57:29] I compare that with everybody's favorite ranch packet, for example, that starts with maltodextrin as the first ingredient. What's that sugar. Whereas our ranch static is onion, salt, parsley, black pepper, and deal weed. That's it. It's all natural ingredients and there's no sugar. There's no additives.

[00:57:47] There's no fillers are savory. Taco seasoning is a very popular and, uh, if you prefer more of a spicy, I've got a couple people go. It's not as hot as I like get our fajita seasoning. That'll give you that extra, [00:58:00] that bite you like, uh, meats, like you said, for chicken. Um, our savory meat seasoning is good on all beats.

[00:58:06] Uh, if you're more of a white meat first and general, uh, the Italian seasoning or our newer Mediterranean dry rub works really well with, uh, white meats, basically, whatever you eat. Uh, we've got upwards of 60 to 70 different seasonings and blends. Uh, that'll work for anybody's palette

[00:58:24] Carl Lanore: [00:58:24] and you'll get 15% off all of those as well.

[00:58:26] If you go there to buy your biltong. And then you decide, well, I'm going to buy some seasoning to using if you, as long as you follow the link, SHR network biz slash S S S a have 15% off the entire order. So that's a really good one. So what else is new? You got anything coming, anything you're working on that you can kind of give us a peek under the tent.

[00:58:51] Cory Conklin: [00:58:51] In the background while we're with the holidays coming, uh, we are in the process of bringing in several different, uh, seasonings and spices [00:59:00] to go along with our savory pumpkin spice. We've got a gingerbread spice coming in. That again is sugar-free. So there's no garbage in there. We also have some of your typical, uh, holiday spices coming in.

[00:59:12] So nutmeg ginger, the things that you're gonna use for your, uh, Sweeter, uh, desserts and so forth and treats and we'll have, of course the 15 brewers then off promo that we have right now, we'll work with all of those ones that come in. Uh, let's see here. That should be the first full week of October, roughly as they'll be on the website and ready to go.

[00:59:34] We're just waiting for them to arrive right now.

[00:59:36] Carl Lanore: [00:59:36] Who creates the spices and the blends you,

[00:59:39] Cory Conklin: [00:59:39] I work together with the company that does all the work for me. So. Working together with them. We work on the best options. Uh, in some cases it's a, they have a blend and I just tell him, look, you know, that looks great.

[00:59:52] All the sugar out. That's what I want now

[00:59:55] Carl Lanore: [00:59:55] do they, do they ever try to discourage you at the MSA Corey? You can't [01:00:00] pull the sugar out. That's what people like.

[01:00:02] Cory Conklin: [01:00:02] No. So long as I'm willing to pay for it, they're willing to give it to me. I mean, that's where our, uh, who needs the French onion soup mix came from.

[01:00:10] I looked at it and sugar was like the second to last ingredient. I'm like, it's such a first of all, a minor part of it. I'm like, just pull it out. And it's, it's been insanely popular because people love that onion soup mix and you don't need to just for soups, but to make a great dip with it. Awesome. For our roaster pot, roasts, hamburgers.

[01:00:29] Um, so that's, they said, sure. We'll give it a try. You know, you buy what we ask you to when we'll do it for you,

[01:00:36] Carl Lanore: [01:00:36] you have a French onion, soup spice mix. Yeah.

[01:00:40] Cory Conklin: [01:00:40] It's uh, it is amazing.

[01:00:44] Carl Lanore: [01:00:44] See if I can find it. Okay. Well, could I use it? So I would use that and actually maybe put some onions in it and that would make my broth basically, right?

[01:00:53] Yeah,

[01:00:53] Cory Conklin: [01:00:53] it would. And actually it's with the onion that's in there. I would try it without it and then add [01:01:00] some money if you more free. If you'd like it from the texture. Right, but you're looking at it's it's blended from minced onion, partially flaked, turmeric, onion, powder, celery, salt, and black pepper

[01:01:11] Carl Lanore: [01:01:11] and no monosodium glutamate or any of that crap, right?

[01:01:15] Cory Conklin: [01:01:15] No, no Silicon Valley guy, none of the garbage that didn't know. No, multi-vector nothing like garbage. They put in there.

[01:01:22] Carl Lanore: [01:01:22] Silicon oxide is. Sand.

[01:01:25] Cory Conklin: [01:01:25] I looked up, I

[01:01:26] Carl Lanore: [01:01:26] can't remember it's sand it's pulverized sand. It's an anti conglomerating agent. It keeps stuff from sticking together, keeps stuff from caking. So

[01:01:36] Cory Conklin: [01:01:36] that'll just sandpaper you from the inside.

[01:01:39] Carl Lanore: [01:01:39] I mean, don't get me wrong. I ate sand. When I was a kid, my mother would make me a potato and egg sandwiches and I'd take them to the beach and I be chewing and I feel that crunch. You know, but I didn't go out of my way to eat sand. They actually put sand in food. Yeah. Silicon

[01:01:53] Cory Conklin: [01:01:53] and they, they put, uh, basically saw Dustin and some fillers, also a cellulose cellulose [01:02:00] based you're like, why am I eating sawdust in here?

[01:02:02] I don't need this. And it's not doing me any good. So we don't even bother with it.

[01:02:06] Carl Lanore: [01:02:06] So I did, this is a, this is a non-sequitur, but it's worth talking about, because we're talking about how you strive to take sugar out of everything. A court has just ordered. Uh, subway corporation to stop calling their bread bread.

[01:02:24] Yep. Because it has so much, so much sugar in it that it doesn't qualify as bread. Think about that. What are they going to call it? What are they going to call it? They can call it bread. We go spongy white stuff, have one of our Italian hubs, the subs on a spongy white stuff.

[01:02:43] Cory Conklin: [01:02:43] I mean, it's just like, you know, they, the, uh, the fake meat that they sell, they can't call it meat anymore.

[01:02:48] Cause it's not, no, it's not great either. There's so much sugar and starch in that that no wonder people get addicted to something boy.

[01:02:54] Carl Lanore: [01:02:54] And, and about, um, eight years ago, we were doing an episode of a [01:03:00] casual Friday with Elisa Profumo and she talked about a study that showed that they had. A compound in subway bread.

[01:03:09] That's the same compound they use to make yoga mats.

[01:03:14] Cory Conklin: [01:03:14] That doesn't surprise me in this light is

[01:03:15] Carl Lanore: [01:03:15] to think about that.

[01:03:16] Cory Conklin: [01:03:16] Uh, I mean, margarine is, you know, one or two readings from being

[01:03:22] Carl Lanore: [01:03:22] a plastic. It's like, yeah, wait a minute. Uh,

[01:03:26] Cory Conklin: [01:03:26] canola oil and some of the oils that we are healthy, they were industrial lubricants before they found a way to sanitize them, make them look good.

[01:03:35] To then sell them because they could make money out of any other way.

[01:03:39] Carl Lanore: [01:03:39] Canola oil has an interesting story. It's a horrible oil. It's a proinflammatory oil. It's actually called rape rap. He rape seed oil, but they didn't think that would sell rapeseed oil because it had been associated as you point out with industrial lubricants.

[01:03:57] So. A company in Canada, [01:04:00] that was the primary source of rapeseed oil called it cannoli oil, which good for the Canadian oil. Company oil, you know, Canadian oil company. So that's what canola there is. No, I always ask people, they say, Oh, canola oil is so good. I say, what's a coup yeah, what's a canola. Oh, you know, it's a bean isn't C no, it's not a bean is no such thing as a canola.

[01:04:23] Yeah.

[01:04:24] Cory Conklin: [01:04:24] It is an industrial byproduct of, of, uh, other farming industries. And if you want to see something discussed and go watch, uh, how it's made and, and look up canola oil.

[01:04:34] Carl Lanore: [01:04:34] Yeah. Yeah. They use bleaches in it every, but anyway, deodorizers, they put deodorizers in it, so it doesn't stink anymore. So anyway, I'm getting back to biltong.

[01:04:47] Why is, why is bill tongue so much more dense with protein than plain old, uh, uh, beef jerky?

[01:04:57] Cory Conklin: [01:04:57] It's basically it's because it's not cooked. [01:05:00] All beef jerky is either dehydrated. It's, it's a smoke that goes through some sort of a cooking process, which reduces the protein yield. Biltong is air dried in a controlled environment.

[01:05:10] So it's, it's marinaded. Once it's been marinated, it's cut into strips and hung on stainless steel racks and put into a temperature and humidity controlled room. And seven, 14 days later, you have biltong run it through a slicing machine, which gives you what you see when, when it arrives in the mail and off you go.

[01:05:30] Carl Lanore: [01:05:30] Very very

[01:05:31] Cory Conklin: [01:05:31] simple.

[01:05:32] Carl Lanore: [01:05:32] I had it the first time I had a John Bolger gave it to me when I was in Ireland and he, his came from South Africa and, uh, and I love this stuff. It was amazing and it fell in love with it then, and now I can't, I can't live without it. It's fantastic. And like I said, I can have 30, 30, 40 grams, 50 grams of protein, whatever I want.

[01:05:49] I just take the strips and weigh them, throw them in my, my bag and go. Yeah,

[01:05:53] Cory Conklin: [01:05:53] it's a real easy way to get, to get the protein that you need. It's a great travel companion to like going hiking, [01:06:00] you know, taking a flight, I reckon, amen. People that are going to do that, get the 16 ounce bag and then downsize it.

[01:06:06] If you get a vacuum sealer, you know, make, you know, two ounce bags throw in the freezer, uh, you know, the other day texted me, Hey, we're going on a hike today? Can I go grab some from the office? Sure go for it. And that's what that was their lunch for the day. It was actually just eating built on as they walk around all day.

[01:06:21] Carl Lanore: [01:06:21] So let's talk about that. So once the bag is opened to the, should it be refrigerated?

[01:06:26] Cory Conklin: [01:06:26] No, not necessary. I need it within you within a couple of weeks, two, three weeks at the worst, but uh, no need to refrigerate it,

[01:06:34] Carl Lanore: [01:06:34] but if you're going

[01:06:35] Cory Conklin: [01:06:35] to vacuum seal it, you could use the freezer too for longevity.

[01:06:39] Carl Lanore: [01:06:39] Okay. So what is the shelf life?

[01:06:41] If the bag is unopened. Versus open Tommy D is asking it

[01:06:48] Cory Conklin: [01:06:48] is over six months. So the bag I've got in front of me, he has April 8th of next year on it. And I got this about a month and a half ago. So it's well, [01:07:00] over six months a shelf life, I don't have to refrigerate it. You can just leave it on the shelf.

[01:07:05] And it'll, it'll be good for six to eight

[01:07:06] Carl Lanore: [01:07:06] months. If you do want it to last longer, you can freeze it and smoke small portion controlled pouches and then frozen and less than definitely how's the texture. When it comes out of the freezer and you eat it,

[01:07:18] Cory Conklin: [01:07:18] it is, it does it doesn't yet

[01:07:22] Carl Lanore: [01:07:22] thought room temperature overnight or blue.

[01:07:24] I let it throw on the refrigerator overnight.

[01:07:27] Cory Conklin: [01:07:27] But either or would work. I mean, the nice thing is it's so thin. If you did you use the refrigerator, you don't have to leave it out on the counter overnight because it's so thin it should throw on its own

[01:07:36] Carl Lanore: [01:07:36] in the refrigerator. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense.

[01:07:39] The product is called select savory snacks. Biltong. It's an amazing product. I love it. You get 15% off. And don't forget to pick up some of it. As long as you're going to go buy it, pick up some, some spices, also a 50% off all orders. If you go to the website, SHR [01:08:00] network.biz/sss show Corey some love, he's a sponsor.

[01:08:04] He's a new business and he's not spending any money anywhere else. But with this audience, And there's a reason for that. Show him some love, try the biltong. I promise you'll love it. Aye. Aye. Everybody that buys it. I tell people that once you try it, you'll never want to be without it because that's how I feel about it too.

[01:08:24] And everybody, I know my friend, Billy Mitchell was telling me the other day, he was like, man, I love this biltong. He goes, I'm going through it so fast. Um, so Tommy says stuff is awesome. Thanks. So he obviously has tried it. There you go. Yeah, Tommy, would you write Tommy? Would you recommend people try it, Tommy, and we'll wait for you to, to, to respond.

[01:08:44] Go ahead. What are we going? Gonna say?

[01:08:46] Cory Conklin: [01:08:46] Um, and once you've tried it, once you've used the, uh, the promo that we have going on with you guys, if you sit there and go, wow, this stuff's amazing. We do have a, uh, basically subscribe and save. You can set up three, four or six week a [01:09:00] subscription and we automatically send it out to you.

[01:09:01] So you don't have to worry about, Oh no, I'm running out. Uh, every however, often you decide to pick, you know, pick which size you want us to ship you. So I've got a couple of people that, uh, every four weeks they get a four pounds. They get a pound a week basically, and it just automatically renews kicks it out and you don't have to worry about it showing up.

[01:09:20] It'll just come out every single time for you.

[01:09:22] Carl Lanore: [01:09:22] And

[01:09:22] Cory Conklin: [01:09:22] not counted. I think it's a 15% discount when they sign up

[01:09:25] Carl Lanore: [01:09:25] for that too. And Tommy says, when I said to him, would you recommend it to people? He said, absolutely. So there's a, you know, the guys over at metrics and dr. Scott Connolly, their model for protein.

[01:09:39] Was just under $2, $2 or less serving. And that's exactly what this biltong works out to be. I mean, it's, it's, it's really a good price too, per serving. He says, unlike anything that I've tried before. Yeah. It is. It is, it's got this, it's got the, it's got this moist oily kind [01:10:00] of feel to it, not greasy. And it's soft.

[01:10:03] Unlike beef jerky, which is like a shank house, shingle it's soft and bendable. It's chewy. It's not hard like beef jerky. You gotta work it for a while before you can even chew it.

[01:10:16] Cory Conklin: [01:10:16] This is pick it in the corner. Your mouth, let your saliva soft.

[01:10:21] Carl Lanore: [01:10:21] Yeah, this stuff is chewy. It's delicious. The flavor is unbelievable.

[01:10:24] I don't know what spices they put on it. There's some unique spices on it, I think. But the flavor is unbelievable.

[01:10:31] Cory Conklin: [01:10:31] And, uh, well actually it is it's beef vinegar, salt spices, Rosemary dried beef powder, dried vinegar. And that's it.

[01:10:39] Carl Lanore: [01:10:39] The vinegar is what it is. The vinegar is unique. That's what, now that you said it, it's the vinegar, this stuff tastes amazing.

[01:10:45] It's fantastic. Corey, this is a great product. You should be proud selling it and people should be proud buying it. He's a good guy. It's a good company. Go to SHR network biz slash. SSS, and that's all lower case, a 15% off [01:11:00] your biltong and pick up some spices while you're there. The holidays are coming.

[01:11:03] You need spices anyway, and plus it helps you with food prep. You make everything taste fantastic. Corey, thanks for being here today, brother. And thanks for being a sponsor.

[01:11:12] Cory Conklin: [01:11:12] Well, I

[01:11:12] Carl Lanore: [01:11:12] appreciate it. And we'll talk to you as soon. I got 10 pounds coming. You all jealous of me, right? I know everybody's jealous of me.

[01:11:19] All right, Corey, talk to you later, brother. Hi. And that's it for today's show? Uh, we hopefully, you know, I do these shows about menopause and I know that there's a lot of guys in the audience and they're like, Aw man, menopause calls talking about menopause again. Like we really don't want to hear about that, but there are women in your life that need to hear that.

[01:11:36] So. Share those shows with a mom, a sister, a wife, a, you know, whoever it is that you think, uh, could use hearing that stuff because menopause is horrible. Women. If you went through menopause the dudes out there walking the show right now, if you went through menopause, you'd realize how horrible it is for women.

[01:11:57] It's very, very unfair. And the medical [01:12:00] orthodoxy really doesn't do anything for women today. So share that show and we'll see you tomorrow with more Superman radio. Wait, it looks like we have another comment here. Tommy says he bought a bunch for his Mexico trip and it worked perfectly. There you go. You weren't going to starve no matter where you went.

[01:12:15] Wonderful idea. Wonderful idea. I will see everybody tomorrow with more superhuman radio. Thank you for watching and listening today. [01:13:00]