[00:00:00] Carl Lanore: [00:00:00] welcome back to another episode of super human radio. Today is, uh, on September 2nd, 2020. We have a really great show planned for you today. Uh, during the first hour, we're going to be joined by dr. Matt Dawson from wild health to talk about genome based precision medicine. You know, we've talked a lot about this topic on the show indirectly.

[00:00:24] We've talked about how, uh, The new standard is becoming personalized medicine, but how do you really do that? Because, you know, okay, our skin is different colors were built a little different, but pretty much 99% of humans, we're all the same and blood work. Doesn't always tell you that. And so, um, in order to treat a person as an individual, you have to know more about them, but then you have to have a lot of arrows in your quiver that speak to different conditions.

[00:00:53] We're going to talk all about that in a little bit. Then later in the show, Uh, we're going to talk about [00:01:00] the super human nootropic stack. Uh, the team has worked and tried stacking some different nootropics together, and we think we found, uh, something that really works well. We're going to share that with you, uh, in a little while.

[00:01:13] So without further delay, let's welcome. Oh, let me get rid of that image, dr. Matt Dawson. How are you doing Matt?

[00:01:22] Dr. Matt Dawson, MD: [00:01:22] I'm great. Thanks for having me. I, I, uh, I'll be honest. I didn't know that podcast strength was regulated by law, so I'm really excited to be on the strongest.

[00:01:31] Carl Lanore: [00:01:31] You know, you know, you want to get something funny.

[00:01:33] Here's something funny. So when I first, when this show first started 14 years ago, soon in November, it'll be 15 years. I started out on clear channel radio on. 10 80 am WK JK, which is, gets to Lexington from Louisville. And I made my own intro music. I took the theme from Superman, the original theme from the Superman show.

[00:01:55] I still have it. And every time they said Superman, I just [00:02:00] overdubbed Carl Lenore. And it was so campy. And so funny sounding that it really caught on, but then a guy who was, um, Doing a successful bodybuilding radio show. Dan Solomon said, Carl, you got to change that it, your show is, is too legit. It's too serious.

[00:02:18] It's too good of a show to use that homemade, uh, intro. So I had a professional here in Kentucky, a do this one here and, you know, but click the show back then it was all about bodybuilding and strength and fitness, you know, that's where the strongest radio. Yeah, it's pretty funny.

[00:02:35] Dr. Matt Dawson, MD: [00:02:35] I love it. That's great.

[00:02:36] Carl Lanore: [00:02:36] So, Matt, before we start talking about wild health, let's talk about you. How do you find yourself? Uh, first of all, you're a physician, but how do you find yourself as a physician? Uh, kind of getting off the beaten path. It's gotta be scary, not following what everybody else is doing. Where did, how did you find yourself into this position with, with wild health?

[00:02:58] Dr. Matt Dawson, MD: [00:02:58] You know, I think what [00:03:00] was scary to me is think about practicing a way of medicine that didn't work for the next 20 years of my career. So I think as physicians, when we are in medical school, we're very idealistic. We're excited to help people. We go through residency learning all of these skills and then we get out and we realize that medicine is broken.

[00:03:18] It doesn't work to just treat people based on statistics and epidemiology, what works for most people. And we see that you see that in our hub.

[00:03:31] A bit of a risk to go outside of the mainstream. Um, if you don't believe in the mainstream, then it's not that big of a risk.

[00:03:38] Carl Lanore: [00:03:38] I've noticed a trend. When I first started going to AFRM conventions. I don't remember how long ago. Um, 13 years ago, let's say, uh, I noticed that there were a lot of physicians who were, ER, doctors.

[00:03:53] That seemed to gravitate to this new style of keeping people from getting sick in the [00:04:00] first place. Know, I think you work in an ER periodically, right? You still do that.

[00:04:05] Dr. Matt Dawson, MD: [00:04:05] Um, very rarely now, maybe once or twice a week, because I D I do enjoy it. I mean, it's, it's incredibly rewarding for somebody to come in.

[00:04:12] Yeah. Able to save their life. But I think as ER, doctors, what we saw as worth the very end and we, we may save someone's life, but. Um, for what, a lot of times we're prolonging it by a month or a few weeks or a couple months. And I think a lot of us have realized if we can get ahead of that further upstream, we can make a real difference in patient's lives.

[00:04:33] So that's, that's probably why you're seeing that transition and that, that theme with the, our doctors,

[00:04:38] Carl Lanore: [00:04:38] how long ago did you start looking away from traditional allopathic medicine and into a longevity medicine?

[00:04:47] Dr. Matt Dawson, MD: [00:04:47] So I have a, I have a partner who named Mike Mullen. He's also a physician and the two of us for a decade.

[00:04:53] We've been teaching other physicians, but we were teaching other physicians, emergency medicine, these other skillsets. And [00:05:00] he and I were always obsessed with optimizing health, not just intubating people and procedures and ER medicine, but optimizing that's all we talked about. And several years ago. Um, and I think part of that background came too from, I played a couple sports in college and the biohacking thing when you're in athletics, it's just comes natural.

[00:05:16] That's what you're always doing. And so we continue that interest. In a few years ago, we had a situation where, um, Mike had real issue with his limits. His cholesterol numbers came back horribly. At the time we were both doing ultra marathons, eating what we thought was a perfect diet. And he had these numbers that were just not conducive to living a long, healthy life.

[00:05:37] So he, he texted, texted me immediately when he got the numbers back, he knew that I'm obsessed with the nutrition literature. And I told him, Hey, look, if you look at all the big studies, the met analysis, say, go on this diet. And he tried that and he got worse. Uh, in the meantime, his doctor put him on a stab because that's what you do with high lipids.

[00:05:55] And we were worried about that, but he did. And then he got horrible muscle breakdown of my [00:06:00] apathy. And as we're going through all of this, we started seeing the literature emerging. That personalized medicine. Maybe we could do something with genetics. Like there's a lot of data there, but yeah. But, um, but no one was doing it.

[00:06:12] So when we sequenced our DNA, we looked at his, we were really shocked and that we saw, I saw almost immediately he needed to be on pretty much the exact opposite diet of what I suggested, even though the meta analysis, he's say that 85% of people works and he's in the 15%. And then he had a snip that made him almost guaranteed to have muscle breakdown of myopathy from a Staton.

[00:06:31] And we were kind of, kind of angry. Like why does dr. Matt know this? We're like, well, no doctors, no this or doing this right now. So we went down a real rabbit hole, learning everything we could about it. We started the other doctors who were training and other skills. We started treating them, which our church in our family, ourselves, we got remarkable results.

[00:06:50] And then we just became convinced that. This is how medicine should be practiced. And we left kind of our university positions. We were, um, associate professors on this kind of [00:07:00] academic track, but we just thought, what are we doing? This is not, this is not the way to practice medicine. So we left all that and we started wild health.

[00:07:07] Carl Lanore: [00:07:07] I have to believe that your colleagues either handled this one of two ways. They either embraced it and thought, wow, this is exciting. Or. They became frightened about what you were about to do because the underpinnings of their beliefs and the way they're treating their patients, you're about to rock their world.

[00:07:31] Dr. Matt Dawson, MD: [00:07:31] Yeah. I mean, to be honest, Carl, um, Most physicians get it too. They just don't know how to, how to change.

[00:07:38] Carl Lanore: [00:07:38] So when

[00:07:39] Dr. Matt Dawson, MD: [00:07:39] we lay this out for a physician and a patient, they immediately understand w we, every patient that we see we them DNA, but that's just the start. That's about 20% of our health outcomes. That's kind of our operating system every day, our lifestyle eat stress levels, exposure we're turning on and off good genes.

[00:07:57] So we also do a really big blood panel to see where people [00:08:00] are at the moment. Microbiome testing, we correlate it all. And then we come up with recommendations. And when we explain that to other physicians and to patients, they all it's intuitive. It makes sense to treat people based on. Their DNA, their blood work, not just statistics and epidemiology.

[00:08:16] So our, to be honest with you, a lot of them are five folders. One of the first things that we realized, we started doing this as the demand was too high, we couldn't see everybody we needed to. So we actually started a fellowship program to teach other doctors. We have 50 providers and training right now, and we have people on the wait list.

[00:08:34] So other doctors get it too. I think there's a revolution happening where. Patients are going to demand this and doctors want to practice this

[00:08:42] Carl Lanore: [00:08:42] way. So the number one killers today that we see cardiovascular diseases listed as the number one killer in America. But the reality is it's really not cardiovascular disease.

[00:08:51] That's one of the endpoints of a myriad of other things that could be called a metabolic syndrome syndrome, X, uh, insulin [00:09:00] resistance. Um, even auto-immunity now is being tied in and quite frankly, Um, I have a strong feeling that auto-immunity has a bigger role in the ediology of some of these diseases of modernity than, than we've ever really thought.

[00:09:18] So what you're saying to the audiences, if you're someone who has been told. By your physician. Um, you, this is you, you know, you've got cardiovascular disease, you've got neurodegenerative disease. You you're, you've had, you've been diagnosed with cancer once before the allopathic model isn't necessarily the best way to go.

[00:09:41] Dr. Matt Dawson, MD: [00:09:41] No, he's giving someone a stat and for their liquids, like we mentioned, that is treating a symptom, like why are their lipids elevated? Uh, w w most of the medications we give are bandaids to treat symptoms, and we want to get to the root cause, because all the things you've mentioned, all of those things are lifestyle diseases, really.

[00:09:59] Um, [00:10:00] we, and prescribing a drug, doesn't change your lifestyle. So we, we are MDs can prescribe medication. Sometimes we need to, some are very powerful and very effective, but we don't want to start there. We want to start with, what should you be eating? And most of us, all of us pretty much think we know what that is, but it's always amazing.

[00:10:20] When we look at people's DNA, their blood work, their microbiome, all this data. We almost always tell them things like. That they had no idea things that they thought they were doing healthy, which were actually hurting them, just like Mike, uh, where if I started doing this. So we try to attack those root causes of the cardiovascular disease, neurodegenerative diseases, the inflammation auto-immunity.

[00:10:38] And then we can use drugs as tools if we need to. But that's not the solution. That's just a tool and a bridge. Most of the time,

[00:10:45] Carl Lanore: [00:10:45] right? A drug, most drugs with some exceptions should be used as rescue mechanisms. Right? You don't, you don't set a guys femur and put them on crutches and say, you're gonna use these crutches for the rest of your life.

[00:10:58] The goal is to get off the crutches and walk on [00:11:00] the leg again at some point in time. But most physicians don't see it that way. How much of that is because of the influence of big pharma? You know, I, I went to school to be an optometrist. And I remember our labs were all set up by Bausch and loam and Zeiss because they wanted, when we set up our offices, they wanted us to use their products and do, do things their way.

[00:11:22] And so the, how much of what goes wrong with the way physicians treat patients has to do with the influence of pharma in, in, just in school and the curriculum.

[00:11:35] Dr. Matt Dawson, MD: [00:11:35] Yeah, the system is horrible. Like if you look at the incentives and things like that, I mean, if someone comes to me and they have type two diabetes, um, if we, yeah, I mean, my mother was a perfect example.

[00:11:47] When I first saw her, my grandmother had Alzheimer's disease. My mother was at risk because we looked at her genetics and she's high risk. She had insulin resistance, metabolic syndrome would have been put on insulin by regular doctor. She was saying. [00:12:00] When she saw us put her on the right lifestyle for her DNA, for her lab work at our program and she got better in three months, she lost 40 pounds or insulin since reversed, and then she's good to go.

[00:12:10] So that is great for her for a business model of medicine. Well, then she's done. She's not spending money. Whereas if she came to me and I did the traditional things, put on medications, put her on insulin, all of this. Well, she would be hooked on those. I mean, most

[00:12:28] managing it. You create a, a continuum revenue stream for you and the medical society fixing it is the right thing to do, but the incentives are set up to where. That doesn't really help the pharmaceutical companies or medical practices. So the system is really messed up. It's tough to fight against that, but you're exactly right.

[00:12:48] I think a large part of it is that these big pharma and these other organizations with bad incentives are calling a lot of the shots and influencing things.

[00:12:57] Carl Lanore: [00:12:57] So, you know, we hear, we hear about the, uh, [00:13:00] Pain and pleasure, or, you know, the carrot and the stick as being the driving forces for certain things.

[00:13:07] Insurance has a role to play in this too. Right? So insurance companies tie the hands of doctors. Well, first of all, it's ridiculous that doctors come out of college of university with the debt load that they come out with. Makes no sense. I mean, don't get me wrong. Doctors are brilliant. They have a lot to learn, but.

[00:13:28] So we're engineers, so are lots of other fields, but doctors come out of school, literally a hobbled by yet. And, and, and, and unless they start making money, yeah. Taking a quick, you know, they're going to struggle for the rest of their lives. So they get into a practice. Maybe they work for a large group, and this is how you practice medicine.

[00:13:50] And then, so, so you have the pharmaceutical industry saying, this is the standard of care. This is what you do. And you stay in your lane and you'll be fine, [00:14:00] but then you Torrance companies going, no, you can't spend more than four minutes with a patient. How can you, you know, on one hand we have this emerging exciting area of personalized medicine, which you and I get together and we talk and you ask me questions that most doctors probably wouldn't even think irrelevant, but it gives you an idea of my lifestyle.

[00:14:20] That's going to help you treat me. And on the other end of the spectrum, you've got a doctor who sits there and the patient goes, this, this, this, and that. And he goes, Writes or a script says, okay, there you go. Because all he can get cool coding and billing says you can't spend more than 15 minutes with that patient.

[00:14:36] How much of the problems we have today are the payer model.

[00:14:42] Dr. Matt Dawson, MD: [00:14:42] Yeah, for sure. I mean, again, it's the system you're totally right, Carl. I mean, just to give you an example, I mentioned the things, when we see patients, we look at the DNA, the deep blood test microbiome, and a lot of what we do is, is wild. That's we call it wild health.

[00:14:57] Uh, but maybe the most wild thing we do is I tell [00:15:00] people, we use this, this ancient method that we discovered in some textbooks that medicine doesn't use anymore. It's called conversation. I mean, we will. Talk with the patient for an hour and learn about not just like what they eat, but when they, who they eat at with what is their spiritual beliefs, what's their mindfulness practice when they sleep, how they sleep when they go to bed an hour before they go to bed.

[00:15:20] Yeah. All of these things matter and you can't get that in seven minutes. But you're right. The payers don't pay for more than that. So while it is incumbent on physicians to practice a different way, um, we also need a revolution with patients and how they think about that care and their wellness.

[00:15:38] Because if you want an hour of a doctor's time and the insurance companies are not going to pay for it

[00:15:47] and feel we get the payers on board

[00:15:50] Carl Lanore: [00:15:50] and that's the other thing. So in the PA in the patient's mind, Why like, like I have friends, I tell them I'm on testosterone therapy. My [00:16:00] insurance company doesn't cover my testosterone therapy, but it's not horribly expensive. I think it comes out to her maybe like $10 a week, let's say, but I have friends who won't.

[00:16:10] Pay for that because why should I pay for insurance? They should pay for it. If they're not going to pay for it, I'm not going to pay for it. And this is really a cutting off your nose to spite your face mentality, that medicine is being addressed from the patient side. Patients aren't willing to pay hardly anything today for medical treatments.

[00:16:32] And if they have to come out of pocket for anything, they, they they're, they don't want to, but they're really punishing themselves because. You know, what you, what you pay, what does that old saying? You pay for what you get, you know, that it's never been truer than the medical model today. Cause this is great doctors who could save your life.

[00:16:51] But yeah, you're going to have to cough up a couple thousand dollars over the course of five or six visits to get it done.

[00:16:57] Dr. Matt Dawson, MD: [00:16:57] Yeah. And the frustrating thing Carl too, [00:17:00] is that the incentives actually do line up for the payers if they would just do the right thing, just to again, use it, same example of my mother.

[00:17:07] Um, those, those, uh, few months when she lost 40 pounds did all that. It took some effort. We gave her a health coach. We invested in her and the amount of resources that was used. There was. Probably more than what she would have gotten at a regular doctor, but the downstream effects of not having to treat her dementia, heart attacks and strokes, and those things, the person responsible for her life and her care was, um, would have saved many, many times by making that investment.

[00:17:35] So if the payers would pay for that extra time, The physician, patient relationship and the health coach or things like that, all the incentives align. The issue is like you mentioned the big four, the one people, one person that loses that is big pharma, who is yeah. Mobile prescribed medications for life.

[00:17:52] So we could fix this problem. We just have to get to the payers, I think have an alignment between the physicians, the [00:18:00] patients, and the payers as well. And that's how we. We hopefully solve it in the future.

[00:18:04] Carl Lanore: [00:18:04] Talk about your part for a second. So, okay. Without taking his genome into account, what he ended up doing well with it, could that be traced back, excuse me.

[00:18:16] And centrally to where his genes evolved. Right? So like I've had this belief for a long time and I've talked about it. I've said, you know, your perfect diet is the diet that. Created pressure on your genetics. And so you just have to look back and where did your genes come from? You know, are you Mediterranean, you know, six, seven, 800 years ago, where your people from that region, what foods were indigenous to those regions?

[00:18:44] Because the access to those foods. Creates selection, pressures, those selection, pressures, weed out. The people that don't do well with those foods and the people that do well with those foods thrive. And chances are your genes come from that pool. It [00:19:00] could, we use that kind of critical thinking and logic to help people just say, Hey, you know, you're Mediterranean.

[00:19:06] This is the foods that were available thousands of years ago. There you probably do well with these. Did you learn that when you started to look at the, the genome and your, and your partner's diet?

[00:19:18] Dr. Matt Dawson, MD: [00:19:18] Yeah, I think that's probably true. Um, I think we could, uh, take some of that wisdom and do well with it. Um, however, I do think we can kind of even take a step further by really looking at the actual DNA because for Mike, for example, where he's from, he's going to be similar to other people in that region, but they're also as frequently kind of Denovo changes in his DNA.

[00:19:38] For example, Mike, and he's fine with me sharing this. He has an April we four. So in April, we for, uh, A pretty good percentage about 20% or so is a new mutation for that. So his parents could have been three, three, and then he's the four, all of a sudden. So well having that, that global view of where he's from, I think would be helpful.

[00:19:55] I think even more, especially as how cheap it is now to sequence DNA, [00:20:00] we can get an even more granular look and probably do even a little better by actually looking and seeing what the genetics are

[00:20:06] Carl Lanore: [00:20:06] evolving right now. Right. You, and I mean, we, we, since we found. Uh, genetics. It w w we are mistaken to think that it's not happening still.

[00:20:16] That may be three or 400 years from now. Things that we are doing today that have become standard for life will influence the gene pool 500 years from now. Do you see any of this? Do you think that. For instance, um, autism. Yeah. We'll end up being transgenerational and alter genetics going forward. Or do you see anything in your practice that is trans-generational that you're afraid that, you know, we're going to end up in 500 years with this problem.

[00:20:48] Dr. Matt Dawson, MD: [00:20:48] Yeah. I mean, epigenetics is a fascinating, um, it's a fascinating topic. Uh, the study on studies on mice and what stress does to several generations later. Um, and we are evolving. I [00:21:00] think we probably never been evolving so quickly as we are now. And yeah. When you look at some of the political discourse and things, sometimes you're like, which way are we evolving is a good or bad way, but we are definitely changing and evolving.

[00:21:12] And, uh, and I, it is, I think we're at a point in time where the speed of the evolution is so quickly. We need to make sure it's positive in the, in the right direction. Um, because if not, um, it's scary to think about the future. Sure.

[00:21:24] Carl Lanore: [00:21:24] So you just raised an interesting word that we all use, but we really don't.

[00:21:31] Pay it, any Omar and that stress, we all talk about stress. Everybody OLS, stress kills. So I want to bring one word into this discussion and get your opinion. And I like to call it liquid stress and that's called caffeine, right? We, we have become a nation of caffeine. Holics uh, people are consuming and my audience is listening, going, Oh my God, Carl, because they [00:22:00] know that I have had a caffeine is not addictive.

[00:22:03] It's habit forming. I understand the difference between how it changes the brain. And I have stopped caffeine over my life numerous times and I've given back in. And when I use caffeine, Matt, I'm talking about 1500 milligrams a day of caffeine, anhydrous, maybe some coffee to maybe an energy drink. But isn't that if we can all agree that stress is a bad thing.

[00:22:27] Can we not all agree that liquid stress is a bad thing too?

[00:22:33] Dr. Matt Dawson, MD: [00:22:33] So my answer to any specific question like that is it depends on the person. I do think. I mean, cause when I think about stress and you would probably agree, stress can be good or bad. I mean, I went for

[00:22:43] Carl Lanore: [00:22:43] medic,

[00:22:44] Dr. Matt Dawson, MD: [00:22:44] I went spree. I did some sprints this morning at its sauna this morning.

[00:22:47] I did some cold in the pool. All those things were stresses, but the hormetic hormetic stress, the chronic stress and the caffeine. A lot of times the amounts we use it. Yeah, constantly giving that, that hit our adrenal glands to pump out [00:23:00] adrenaline. Um, that can certainly be overused. So w when we're, when we're advising patients, most people probably do drink too much or take in too much caffeine.

[00:23:09] I will look at how it's metabolized though. So, yeah. There's been fascinating studies on athletic performance, for example. So people know caffeine is an ergogenic aid, or it's been thought that, Hey, it's an ergogenic aid is actually was outlawed in the Olympics above certain dosages, but it doesn't help everyone.

[00:23:25] So if you are a fast metabolizer, there's a great study of, of cyclists. They did attend. Okay. Tom trials, if you're a fast caffeine metabolizer caffeine 400 milligrams, actually it was four milligrams per kilogram. Okay. Um, before 10 K Tom trial. Greatly helps you improve your time. If you are a slow metabolizer, it hurts your time.

[00:23:44] If you're intermediate, it didn't have an effect. So we look at, are you fast, slow, or intermediate? And then we look at other snips as well. Polymorphisms, for example, if you have an, a Dora to a polymorphism, well, if you have that polymorphism, caffeine is going to disrupt your sleep [00:24:00] more than what for someone else.

[00:24:01] So some of my patients I tell, avoid caffeine completely. Others I say, Hey, look, you're set up to really use this to your benefit in the morning, before a workout or in certain circumstances. So I think it probably in general it's overused. Um, but it, for us, it just depends on the person. And then we also like, do we give these guys, we give this guidance that we call it in medicine and we think it's better than normal recommendations, but yeah.

[00:24:26] Everybody's different. Everybody's complicated. Humans are complex. So we like to objectively measure. So if I give someone a recommendation on, Hey, cut your caffeine out at a certain time or whatever, then I'm also telling them now for the next week, we're going to watch your ordering and see how it affects your deep and REM sleep.

[00:24:42] Because we want to have objective measures. There's about what works instead of just giving recommendations.

[00:24:48] Carl Lanore: [00:24:48] So, um, we're gonna take our first commercial break, but before we do that, I want to let the audience know a couple of things. The organization This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.. It's called wild health. You can work [00:25:00] directly with them.

[00:25:01] I'm sure you could put people in touch with physicians that. Use your approach to medicine in their local areas, that the objective is the objective to put people in touch with the objective, to get telemedicine and have your clinic work with people around the country.

[00:25:17] Dr. Matt Dawson, MD: [00:25:17] Both 90% of the patients we see are telemedicine, but we do have physicians who are in training all over the U S and the world actually as well.

[00:25:25] So it depends on what someone wants. If someone who like telemedicine that's easy. If we want someone locally, then we try to hook them up with someone there locally.

[00:25:32] Carl Lanore: [00:25:32] Okay, we're going to take a quick commercial break when we come back. Uh, I want to talk about the microbiome. I wanna, I wanna want to understand what you've learned since the microbiome became a thing.

[00:25:44] I think it's, uh, it's dynamic, it's emerging and we're learning every day about what it really means. So we're going to do that when we come back again, wild health.com is the place to go stay tuned. You're listening to super human radio. This is the superhuman channel [00:26:00] evolution just got kicked up a notch.

[00:26:05] Welcome back. You know, if this show has helped you over the past 14 years, I'm asking people in the audience to do a quick little short video. It could be 30 seconds, no longer than three minutes. Take your iPhone pointed at yourself or your smartphone. Tell me your story. I, maybe your story is I can't stand Carl.

[00:26:30] And so I have to keep watching and listening to him because he's like a train wreck. I just gotta see what stupid thing he's going to say next. I don't care what it is. We're putting together a really nice montage. Uh, we have some people that have sent in some really nice videos, go to S H R network.biz/your story.

[00:26:47] Upload your story about superhuman radio there for me. Okay. So now we're going to talk about the microbiome. When the microbiome first became in [00:27:00] Vogue, uh, it was said that it was going to help us cure all day diseases then. Some research started to come out where the microbiome look more like a watermark of our diet.

[00:27:15] It could be influenced literally within days of a diet and maybe not really influencing health, but being. A beacon of sorts that tells us this diet is working for us. What do we know about the microbiome today? That's most exciting to you?

[00:27:33] Dr. Matt Dawson, MD: [00:27:33] The more I learn about the microbiome the world is, I don't know.

[00:27:36] So I mean, we all, we all know, cause I think it's really, it's really important to be honest about what we know and don't know in medicine. Um, we, we all have seen the studies like in, um, Uh, mice, where they raise these germ free mice. If half of them, a microbiome of an obese person, half the microbiome of a lean person fed in the same food and they became obese or lean based on our microbiome, they switched their microbiomes.

[00:27:59] They switched [00:28:00] their leanness or obesity levels. We've seen studies in autism where, um, these autistic kids get fecal transplants. And about half of them a year later, don't even qualify as autistic by their symptomatology. So in, in athlete athletes, we've seen, they have different. The fastest and best athletes have different microbes in their minds.

[00:28:21] all that to say. It's extremely important. We just don't really know, in my opinion, how to have a positive effect on it. Other than whole foods, eating some foods with fiber or things right out of the garden and getting exposed. We think those things are good, but from a medical standpoint, too, Talk about how to affect it directly for positive change.

[00:28:44] Most of the claims that I see out there, I think are. I'm really stretching it. Uh, some of the microbiome companies, them saying what they can do with it. I just don't think the science backs it up. So our approach to it has been, we do measure it frequently and we, we have [00:29:00] built kind of some artificial intelligence systems around what we do to track objective measures.

[00:29:04] And we're trying to come up with better data on what we can do, but it's not an area where I think we're even close. I mean, in the end, I think. We may find is that measuring the actual microbes themselves are much less important than what they're doing. Just the metabolomics of it. And that's doing as well.

[00:29:20] So it's like the ocean, we haven't come close to the true depths of it and what we're going to be able to do with it.

[00:29:27] Carl Lanore: [00:29:27] So, I mean, one of the things I talk about on the show all the time to kind of dumb it down, is that the microbes in your gut. Eat the food, you feed them and either poop out things that are good for you or bad for you in simplest term, that's really what's going on.

[00:29:43] Right.

[00:29:45] Dr. Matt Dawson, MD: [00:29:45] Yeah. And, and they're, they're producing things. Yeah. Like for specifically, um, like in depression, we know that everyone knows what SSRI is, are selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors. We think about serotonin in the brain, but most of it is [00:30:00] produced in the gut if I go by a microbiome. So that in itself, I mean, when you look at people that have had antibiotic courses, the risk of anxiety and depression greatly go up over the next year because you're disrupting that microbiome.

[00:30:11] So. We know it's really important. They're doing really important things and we know how to disrupt them. Okay. Let's stay away from glyphosates. Let's try not to use antibiotics. Um, but beyond those basic things, it's hard to know how to have a real positive effect in a specific and directional manner with medicine.

[00:30:30] Carl Lanore: [00:30:30] So you just mentioned something. That's another fascinating topic that I have. I don't understand why more people haven't capitalized on it, but you, you talk about geo faggy. Uh, so, uh, and I actually did a show with the guy from California. His last name was diamond dr. Diamond, who wrote a couple of papers on geo faggy, but that's basically eating dirt.

[00:30:49] We know that primitive cultures have eaten dirt. Eating it not by accident. Like when you're a kid, you get sand on your hand and you eat the sandwich. Your mother made you swallowing the sand. [00:31:00] They go out specifically to specific areas that for some reason, culturally they've decided this dirt has value.

[00:31:08] They even send pregnant women, uh, you know, to help them have healthier children to eat dirt. Um, now. A lot of the dirt that's available to us, it has been destroyed through commercial and conventional agriculture. And also eating dirt could be bad for you because there could be poisonous things in, in dirt.

[00:31:30] But with that being said, why do we not understand more about GI Joe faggy? Why do we not understand more about the contribution to eating dirt, uh, that it may have on the human condition?

[00:31:45] Dr. Matt Dawson, MD: [00:31:45] Yeah. Um, so to directly answer your question, I don't know why we don't know more about it. I mean, I, I could be a conspiracy theorist and say, Hey, there's no, you can't pharmaceuticalized and sell, or why would anybody study it? Um, I mean, we do, I do [00:32:00] encourage, I mean, my family and others to, um, have pets and play with them and get dirty.

[00:32:04] We get. Food right out of the garden. I mean, I was with my four year old the other day and there's beans on the vine. He's picking them and eat them and eating them directly. Or we pull it, you pull the baby carrot up and we just brushed it it off and made it no soap or anything like that on the dirt. So, so I think there is something there.

[00:32:20] It's a great point. You make about the soil, this isn't your grandfather's soil. It's been, everything's had glyphosate all over it and all the pesticides and chemicals. So it is. It is different now as well. So I don't know how much I would recommend that in general, but it's but, but yeah, I mean, eating food with a little bit of dirt on them, probably on the whole is beneficial.

[00:32:40] More than that.

[00:32:41] Carl Lanore: [00:32:41] I've been waiting for someone to go to some pristine area of the planet. And start and do a very, very complete soil analysis and make sure that there's not anything dangerous in the soil and packaging it up and selling it. Um, [00:33:00] you know, kale Peck, they used to have a type of clay in it when we were kids.

[00:33:05] When I was, when I was a kid I'm 62 years old. Now, when you were a kid, but when I was a kid, uh, I want to say it was called Kaylin. It's a clay and that's what kale Peck Tate had in it. And that's what you took to keep yourself, you know, to stop, to stop from having diarrhea, but they've replaced it with something else, but I've, and, and here in Kentucky, he, it's something I really am fascinated about.

[00:33:28] So, but those of you, who've never been to Kentucky. I'll never forget when I first moved here. 30 something years ago, I, we were driving some place and there was a sign that said big bone lick. And I thought, Oh, that's right. It's funny. Well, we have licks in Kentucky. And what these are, is there areas of the, of the state where animals come in droves to lick.

[00:33:51] The soil to lick the dirt, right? I'm not making this up. Right. And so they've been caught. We have, we have Pope lick. We have big bone lick and [00:34:00] the animals are coming to these, these areas and licking the dirt, licking the ground for a reason. It's, it's sad. That's fine. Maybe a nutrient deficiency, many be a mineral deficiency.

[00:34:11] Maybe it just tastes really good, but something tells me that the next frontier in microbiome science is when we figure out. The role that DIRTT played in the development of a healthy microbiome.

[00:34:25] Dr. Matt Dawson, MD: [00:34:25] Yeah. We've got French lick paint, slick that I had no idea what that, what that actually meant though. So I just learned something from me for there.

[00:34:32] Um, um, and, and I mean, um, I live in the woods, uh, in a house in the woods and I send my. Kids out. I mean, to go play in the woods. And I don't know, I can't, I don't know, scientific papers on exactly what it is and what's going on, but I do believe in this kind of nature deficit disorder we have and how much of it is just being with the fresh air versus touching the ground and getting it on us and NS.

[00:34:55] I'm not sure, but I think you're right. We've lost something important. When, [00:35:00] when we don't do that,

[00:35:01] Carl Lanore: [00:35:01] well, we know that there was one good study that Alyssa talked about when we used to do casual Friday, because she's, she's a gardener to Alyssa loves working in the garden. And, uh, we talked about a study that showed that people who work with soil, like they took people that had major depressive disorder.

[00:35:21] So the first study showed that people who work with soil have a lower incidence of major depressive disorder. So the second study, they actually took people that had major depressive disorder and had them start gardening. And their moods changed literally like within weeks. And so some postulated, well, sure.

[00:35:38] They're out there in the sun, they're working with the soil, but they discovered that there were microbes in the soil that actually had an effect on serotonin levels. And whether they were absorbing it through their skin, inhaling it through their nose, or they touch in their mouth while they're working, they're getting this in and it was having an effect.

[00:35:57] Like, could you imagine if [00:36:00] doctor said, you know, yeah, you're depressed. You're clinically depressed his word. I'm writing you a prescription. I want you to start gardening.

[00:36:07] Dr. Matt Dawson, MD: [00:36:07] Yeah, we didn't planned this, but you have perfectly outlined why we're called wild health. It's it's it's it has two meanings. It is.

[00:36:15] Okay. We're doing some pretty wild stuff with the DNA and microbiome, but we also think that most of what we need to heal and be well comes from the wild from nature. We actually, right now, I, I. Um, my wife is a psychiatrist. She's board certified, both an adult psychiatry and child and adolescent. And she's working on a program where, um, when you visited me in person a couple of months ago, Carl, you saw our gardens and things there and the horse farm.

[00:36:38] And so we're working on a program, a mindfulness based program based around the garden, the chickens, the goats, the honeybees, the horses that we have. And we're going to initially roll it out for free to, uh, kids and teachers in the school system, because who is more stressed out right now. Then those two groups, it's going to be a free program we have here.

[00:36:58] Uh, I sorta be pretty [00:37:00] limited, but the goal is to then really expand that and try to teach others how to use nature, to affect anxiety, depression, the things that you talk

[00:37:08] Carl Lanore: [00:37:08] about. Very fascinating. Yeah. And I want to talk about that when we come back, but before we, I want to talk about your facility because your facilities is a one of a kind facility, probably in the world.

[00:37:21] And I want to, I want to save that for the last segment, but I want to get your opinions on something else. And I kind of set you up earlier and told you I wanted to talk about, I just had a doctor, Miguel, well, bloggers on the show who is the pioneer. Who's been working with a rap myosin. Uh, to treat, uh, aging for as an anti aging drug.

[00:37:41] And he's a brilliant doctor. And off the air, we were talking about Metformin. I've always felt that Metformin was good for people who have diabetes, but if you're a healthy Metformin, probably doesn't provide any real value, but there's a host of people out there who think by taking Metformin. They're going to live longer.

[00:38:00] [00:38:00] And so what, what are your opinions of Metformin and what were they in? Have they changed? Cause I see a lot of clinicians now going, whew, where rethinking about foreman. What, what's your opinion of it?

[00:38:12] Dr. Matt Dawson, MD: [00:38:12] Well, blag Ascona is my favorite new name, which is great to stay when it comes to Metformin. So my, my thoughts on my former have changed and evolved a little bit over the last couple of years.

[00:38:23] Um, two years ago I was taking Metformin now I'm not. So, um, What we know is that it clearly improves health span, someone with type two diabetes, right? Alex syndrome, big benefit. We also know is in our pro athletes. So we treat a lot of pro athletes. Um, we have as clients and for those patients, it would be clearly harmful because it does decrease the effect of exercise that hormetic stress, it's a mitochondrial toxin.

[00:38:49] So they, we know don't take it. Uh, older patients with, with metabolic syndrome do take it. It's in the middle. Um, where's the benefit. And that has changed in my mind [00:39:00] as a, again, like as a, um, 38 year old. Uh, I thought I, okay, well, it's going to benefit. And now I don't think so. I think the effects, the negative effects is the mitochondrial toxin and the negative effects on exercise for someone like me who has great.

[00:39:15] Glucose control and insulin sensitivity. I think that it's probably going to be more harmful than helpful. So I've changed my sliding scale in the algorithm of, of who benefits from it. And I need people to be either old, a little older or a little more, uh, metabolic syndrome to have a benefit now where exactly it is.

[00:39:33] It's still an art. It depends on the person, but I have much fewer people on Metformin now than I did a year ago.

[00:39:40] Carl Lanore: [00:39:40] And Metformin shifts. The diversity of the microbiome, right? Uh, a lot of people have talked about this, that it's beneficial. Um, the, the microbe that it reduces is one that is increased in a high protein diet.

[00:39:55] I don't know why. I can't think of the name of it. Do you know what I'm talking about?

[00:39:59] Dr. Matt Dawson, MD: [00:39:59] No, I'm not [00:40:00] sure. Right.

[00:40:02] Carl Lanore: [00:40:02] Oh, it'll come to me. It'll come to me before the end of the show. It'll probably pop into my head during the next commercial break, but, um, yeah, I I've, I've never used Metformin. I even had it, my doctor write me a prescription for it.

[00:40:13] Cause I thought I was gonna, yeah, I use it, but my fasting blood sugar is in the seventies. Uh, I produce ketones in just a 12 hour fast. Uh, so I, I just thought to myself, why would I want. To take Metformin it and all the research on Metformin is on people who are very, very sick. These are people who they have.

[00:40:35] Um, they, they have metabolic disease already and Metformin will help them. You know, the other thing is not, everything works all the time and I, I want to invoke one of the things. So I did a show. Back in 2007 on cloth though, when cloth though was first discovered this, this [00:41:00] peptide, God, it extended the life of C guns.

[00:41:04] And, uh, and the fruit fly. I can't think of the name.  a fruit fly or whatever it is. And so they thought, Oh my God cloth though, is the new peptide that is going to extend human life. By up to 30%, the doctor I had on the show was from the Albert Einstein school of medicine on the East coast. I was so excited about cloth though.

[00:41:23] I even started messaging peptide companies that I knew. Hey, could you make cloth though? Because we're going to inject cloth though, pretty soon. But then two years later, a study came out and showed that diabetics have the highest level of cloth though. Of anybody in the population and they die the soonest and they develop cancer.

[00:41:44] And then all of a sudden it was like, Oh, though, isn't really a slam dunk after all, like we think it is. So I stayed away from it. Foreman instinctively. I thought, you know, it's not going to provide me with any real benefits because I have good blood sugar management already. [00:42:00] I'm just happy to hear. Other people are starting to think this way as well.

[00:42:04] We're going to take a quick commercial break. When we come back, I want to talk about the facility. This facility is worth you going to it's a castle. I kid you not. It's a real castle. Stay tuned. We'll be right back.  spit that out right now. This is the superhuman channel.

[00:42:27] welcome back. We're talking with dr. Matt Dawson from wild health. This place is the coolest place on the planet. A little bit later in the show, we're going to be talking about a nootropic stack that you're going to want to get in on. We have a special offer for you too. So the wild health actually is in a castle.

[00:42:46] Talk about the origin of this castle and what made you guys pick up this castle?

[00:42:51] Dr. Matt Dawson, MD: [00:42:51] Well, technically, uh, the Kentucky  are technically two completely separate things. And really the link is just me. I'm [00:43:00] the CEO of both of those two things. But while health, we are based, I'm on the horse farm behind the castle.

[00:43:06] So right now I'm sitting, I'm looking out the window, a dog just walked by and I see a few horses. So, um, we. We are the, the castle is just in the front. So people go to the Kentucky castle.com. They can see that, um, what we do use the castle for frequently is for education. So we will have a, but the end of this month, we have a brain optimization, of course, that we'll have at the castle where physicians will come in and they can stay at the castle.

[00:43:30] And we can, you used the land, we have 110 acres to do things, and we can also use it for things like I mentioned earlier that the mindfulness, uh, work with the horses and with the. The farming. So it is a cool property. Um, people are interested and they come and then we, it's kind of a little bit of a bait and switch when they come to the castle.

[00:43:49] Then we try to teach them a little bit about, uh, about farming and food and where it comes from. We in the restaurant at the castle, 80 to 80 function of what we serve, we've grown in the gardens with the [00:44:00] bees and the chickens and, and, uh, and the big organic garden we have. So I think it's a, it's a cool property.

[00:44:05] It's a good place to. They do some education, if you're a physician or provider as well.

[00:44:09] Carl Lanore: [00:44:09] So if somebody lives far away and wants to come to the facility, they can stay at the castle. Right. I mean, there's rooms to stay in and everything.

[00:44:17] Dr. Matt Dawson, MD: [00:44:17] Yeah. There are. And so, and because a lot of our clients that are telemedicine sometimes they'll come in it's the castle is two minutes from the airport.

[00:44:24] Uh, so the fly and stay at the castle and then they can come to the clinic, uh, from there. Um, so yeah, it's definitely a full service boutique hotel and restaurant and event space. The working farm on it as well.

[00:44:36] Carl Lanore: [00:44:36] So you don't know this because we don't follow each other on any social media platforms or anything, but Elisa and I got engaged a couple of weeks ago.

[00:44:44] And so we figured we're going to get married in 2022 was we have a bunch of other things we want to accomplish in 2021. And she said, let's get married at the castle. And so, I mean, it's like. It's a fairy tale. I mean, it's a legit [00:45:00] castle. People have to understand, like it's got turreted walls and it's got a, the corners have roomed in the round, I guess.

[00:45:08] I don't know what you call those, those tall silo shaped rooms. And it's a legitimate castle. Somebody built this castle to live in at one point in time. And, uh, it's huge. It's amazing. It's amazing.

[00:45:21] Dr. Matt Dawson, MD: [00:45:21] It's a fun property. We, we became acquainted with it about 10 years ago when Mike and I started teaching medical conferences there, we were like, how weird would it be that fun?

[00:45:29] Would it be to rent the castle out and teach? And what we found is, uh, these doctors would come from around the world and they just had a great time. Cause it's not a hotel lobby. It's a different, it's fun. They're sending pictures back to their kids and stuff. So it's a fun property for sure.

[00:45:43] Carl Lanore: [00:45:43] Yeah. Um, I want to

[00:45:45] Dr. Matt Dawson, MD: [00:45:45] call, I gotta show you the dungeon next time.

[00:45:47] Carl Lanore: [00:45:47] No, it's okay, man. Thanks. I don't mean Dungeons. No, I'm Italian. I stay away from Dungeons and prisons. I don't, I don't go near those. No, but no, I'd love to see it. Didn't you say that the dungeon is you have a workout at [00:46:00] a gym in the dungeon. No. Is that what?

[00:46:02] Dr. Matt Dawson, MD: [00:46:02] No, I'm not. No, no. That's a great idea as that may be what we got to clean some skeletons out and stuff first, but that that's a great idea.

[00:46:08] We'll put that in there.

[00:46:09] Carl Lanore: [00:46:09] Yeah, no, it's, it's a beautiful facility. If you live within driving distance of Lexington, Kentucky, it is worth your effort to drive and see this property. Number one, of course, if you live within driving distance, you can come directly to the wild health clinic and work directly with dr.

[00:46:26] Matt and his colleagues. And they have some brilliant people that we have got another fellow that's going to be on the show. Uh, pretty soon. We are talking about ozone therapy. Uh, I have not been a big believer in ozone therapy, but when we talked about it, I was like, you know what, maybe this is, this is something I need to learn about.

[00:46:42] Um, but, and if you don't live there, just go to the website, wild health.com. Uh, you can message them through that. Get set up to work with them. Look, we all pay off lip service, you know? Oh yeah, next year I'm going to start doing something. I gotta take care of [00:47:00] my health. I'm getting older. I'm guilty of this too.

[00:47:02] Life just takes you like a week and, and, and, and takes you away. But you will have more life to live, live and more life in the living of your life. If you follow. This path of literally getting a blueprint of what your body needs and that you just got to do a once. Once you've got it, you've got the roadmap to live a long, healthy life and not get caught up when all your other friends are complaining about having to go to the specialist.

[00:47:36] And now I got to have this I'm sick. Again. I I'm on 16 different medications. You, you don't, you won't even want to open your mouth because you're embarrassed to say I don't take any drugs at all. I'm I'm fine. This is the wave of the future. This is really what personalized medicine is, but in order to personalize medicine to work.

[00:47:55] Your doctor has to get personal with you. And he can't do that in 15 minutes in a, an a, [00:48:00] an a script pad. And here you go, go on your way. I think what you guys are doing is great. Great.

[00:48:06] Dr. Matt Dawson, MD: [00:48:06] Well, thanks. I really appreciate it. And one thing I would say too is not just a patients, not just people, um, we're training a lot of providers as well, so we have a fellowship.

[00:48:15] So if you're a provider out there and you, um, Or like I was, and just see the system is broken and wanted to do it a different way. Um, we're really committed to just teaching others as well. We think that we really want to create a tribe and in kind of a revolution here.

[00:48:29] Carl Lanore: [00:48:29] Yeah. Maybe, maybe your doctor is really a good doctor and maybe your doctor just needs to understand that there's a better way and a place to learn it.

[00:48:37] You know, you can tell your doctor. About wild health.com just mentioned. I mean, that's an easy website to remember, Hey doc, you should check out this website, wild health.com your doctoral go and learn a little bit and think, wow, this is pretty cool. And maybe they'll reach out. And then the next time you go in for your physical you'll, you may find out that your doctor's going to treat you the way they would have treated.

[00:48:57] You had you gone to wide wild health.com. [00:49:00] That's another good way to get it done. That's a good way, right, Matt. Thanks for being here, brother.

[00:49:05] Dr. Matt Dawson, MD: [00:49:05] Thank you

[00:49:06] Carl Lanore: [00:49:06] take, take care,

[00:49:08] Dr. Matt Dawson, MD: [00:49:08] Carl. There was a question that popped up. Do you want me to

[00:49:11] Carl Lanore: [00:49:11] no, no, no. Let me, let me get to it. Where, where did it pop up?

[00:49:15] Dr. Matt Dawson, MD: [00:49:15] Chris asked

[00:49:16] Carl Lanore: [00:49:16] you, this is my next guest.

[00:49:17] Yeah. So good. Good. Chris wants to know what does he say? Do you know if they're using any subprime contractors? Like 23 and me for genomic sequencing? I asked because I have a privacy concern. Yeah. Talk about that. A lot of people are concerned about privacy when it comes to their genome.

[00:49:33] Dr. Matt Dawson, MD: [00:49:33] Yeah, it's a great question, Chris.

[00:49:35] Um, so if someone already has done 23 and me, we built, so what we did is Mike, and I would take this 10 hours to go through all this when we first started, but now we built algorithms with data scientists. We can just upload the data, we built it so that it, you have 23 and me, we can upload it. If you don't and order DNA from us, we have our own custom chip design that is ours alone, that we run.

[00:49:56] We have some with a PhD in genomics. So lab Corp right now is [00:50:00] running our custom chip that doesn't go to anyone. Other than us, and we're not, we're not affiliate with any pharmaceutical companies or anything. And we also tell patients, I mean, this is a gray line, but we're going to send you the kit. You could always use a fake name and other stuff.

[00:50:12] We just want the snips to put into the program. So, so we, we do not share that data with anyone else. Um, Yeah, it's not part of our business model. We just want the data to be able to tell you how to eat for you, how to sleep for you, how to exercise and those types of things

[00:50:27] Carl Lanore: [00:50:27] citing. You don't share the data.

[00:50:28] I that's, that's exciting right there. That's that's a reason to use you guys instead of anybody else. Anyway, right there. Yeah. Very cool. Chris, thank you for asking that question. And Chris will be on the air with me in just a minute after this last break, talking about this new nootropic stack. I look thanks for being here, Matt.

[00:50:47] Thank you so much. Thank you. Take care. We're going to take one quick commercial break. Stay with me. We'll be right back with more super human radio. Is the superhuman channel where brawn and brains finally meet.

[00:51:04] [00:51:00] Hey, welcome back.

[00:51:08] I'm going to change the topic a little bit were joined or rejoined by Chris Zack. You guys know Chris. He is the proprietor at pure nootropics. They are a sponsor here on super human radio. Very proud to have them as a sponsor because they produce, uh, nootropic products as a variety, right? Variety of products.

[00:51:30] They're like kind of like a bulk, you, this there's products out there. You're buying into some brand name right now. You can go to pure nootropics and you can buy it a lot less expensive because they take the middleman out of it. Let's say, how are you Chris?

[00:51:45] Chris Dziak: [00:51:45] I'm good. Thanks again for having me Carl, glad to be back.

[00:51:48] Carl Lanore: [00:51:48] Of course. So, um, last time you were on their show, a bunch of us got together on an email and we started talking about how Carl wants to stop using, uh, caffeine. And, but I [00:52:00] still need that. I still need that mental acuity. I still need that ability. And I don't even like to use the word focus because people don't understand what focus really is.

[00:52:08] Like I've. Done drugs that gave me so much focus that I couldn't look away from something. What one is alertness? I think alertness the ability to have mental energy move and, and, and, and think, and walk and talk and do all the things you want to do. And not feel like you want to take a nap in 10 minutes.

[00:52:30] And so we talked about this and thanks to Dan Kubicki, who works here. We, we got together on a page and you were kind enough to send us a bunch of stuff, a bunch of stuff. And so we started experimenting. And we were like, well, I don't feel anything from this, this, this, this didn't do anything for me. Uh, Oh wow.

[00:52:51] I feel something from this. And then once we had our short list of what we thought we actually felt, then we said, let's stack them. [00:53:00] Let's put them together. And sure enough, we came up with four items that when you take them together, What I said to Dan was, I feel like the lights went on and my brain, I feel, I feel more alert.

[00:53:13] I don't have the jitters. I don't feel like I had caffeine, but clearly I feel more awake and I've even taken them in late in the day. And they did not impair my sleep, which I was surprised by. Yeah. Right. Well, there's no caffeine in them, so let's go through the list. First of all. And then we're going to tell the audience how they can save a bunch of money.

[00:53:35] On it, if they want to try it, we're calling it the, the superhuman nootropic stack. The first thing we actually talked about briefly, and I told you I wanted to try it was Sal butylene. Right? So talk about salbutamol, what it is.

[00:53:48] Chris Dziak: [00:53:48] So it it's very interesting how it was developed. And I may have mentioned this last time, but basically during world war II, the Japanese were investigating why a lot of their [00:54:00] soldiers were.

[00:54:01] Dr. Matt Dawson, MD: [00:54:01] Having

[00:54:02] Chris Dziak: [00:54:02] fatigue and they were doing blood panels and stuff like that, basically determined that they have very low levels of , which is normally known as diamine. The

[00:54:13] Carl Lanore: [00:54:13] issue

[00:54:13] Chris Dziak: [00:54:13] with fire mean is it doesn't cross the blood brain barrier. And so they went and modified via mean. To basically cross the blood brain barrier and here we

[00:54:25] Carl Lanore: [00:54:25] have so beautifully.

[00:54:27] Yeah. So technically it's a modified B-vitamin modified BV, right? Okay. Yes, exactly. And I felt something from it when I took it by myself by itself, which tells me that I must be deficient a little bit, maybe in one of these B vitamins, perhaps. I don't know.

[00:54:42] Chris Dziak: [00:54:42] Maybe, I mean, for me, it totally is one of the ones that you actually have an effect on.

[00:54:47] Carl Lanore: [00:54:47] Yeah. You know, you feel it for sure.

[00:54:50] Chris Dziak: [00:54:50] You know, and that's why caffeine is so ubiquitous is because you take it and you, you get a feeling out of it. Whereas that isn't always the case with some [00:55:00] supplements where it takes time to like build up

[00:55:02] Carl Lanore: [00:55:02] in your head right now, the second agent that we came up with.

[00:55:08] Chris Dziak: [00:55:08] Lose you

[00:55:09] Carl Lanore: [00:55:09] was no, no, I'm still here. The second thing we came up with was dynamite. Dynamite is a very interesting compound, but the most interesting thing about dynami and I find is that it is a dopamine reuptake inhibitor. Do you know what else is a dopamine reuptake inhibitor that's used frequently in parties, cocaine

[00:55:32] Chris Dziak: [00:55:32] and your S

[00:55:34] Carl Lanore: [00:55:34] yeah.

[00:55:34] So talk about dynamite and a little bit.

[00:55:37] Chris Dziak: [00:55:37] So, so dynamin is, is, uh, the brand name for something called methyl Libertine and basically it was discovered because they were looking for alkaloids that are similar. Um, or stimulants that are like caffeine, structurally, not caffeine. And so that's [00:56:00] where they came up with dynami wood, which is a very, like, it's a pretty novel ingredient.

[00:56:06] Only been on the market a couple of years. So like what you're starting to see is it it's, it's being used for stimulant properties and a lot of like pre-workouts and stuff, stuff like that. And so we, you know, energy and having the alertness. Definitely can affect your cognition. And so that's one of those areas that we try and focus on.

[00:56:27] And so if there's a good. Ingredient will basically just encapsulate it and put it there as a one off for you to try if you like it. Great. If not, no big deal, you know, exclude it from your stack

[00:56:40] Carl Lanore: [00:56:40] basically. So Diana mean, I had the greatest, uh, benefit from. And, and, and my, and we're going to tell the whole stack, and then I'll tell you what works for me.

[00:56:50] Cause not everybody is going to just take one capsule of each of these. Some people can take two caps of one of them. That's my findings with Dynamynd dynamin was the one that [00:57:00] when I took it by itself, it definitely increased libido. Like I, I literally like when it started to hit me, I kind of felt like my mind was going there.

[00:57:09] And so, yeah, so, so diamine was one. That I was like, wow, this is cool. Like if you just took it by itself, the third ingredient that we stayed with was Tia cream. Talk about Tia cream. So,

[00:57:23] Chris Dziak: [00:57:23] so Tia cream is, is again, it's in a very similar category is dynamite. And in fact, I think, uh, the guy did. Basically was part of patenting it, his name is Shawn Wells and he's a formulator.

[00:57:38] Carl Lanore: [00:57:38] Yeah. He's been on the show a few times.

[00:57:40] Dr. Matt Dawson, MD: [00:57:40] I know him very well,

[00:57:41] Chris Dziak: [00:57:41] right. Yeah. He's a cool guy. And so like, he was one of the guys that discovered a Tia cream, which is actually the brand name for a, an ingredient called Thea

[00:57:51] Dr. Matt Dawson, MD: [00:57:51] cream. Um,

[00:57:53] Chris Dziak: [00:57:53] yeah, exactly. Th spelled basically the same way, but same idea. They're looking [00:58:00] for.

[00:58:00] A caffeine alternative. And so structurally similar to caffeine when you look at it, uh, and it's an alkaloid.

[00:58:10] Carl Lanore: [00:58:10] The nice thing

[00:58:11] Chris Dziak: [00:58:11] about tea. Yeah. Korean is ugly. The. The company that markets it, and it has exclusive distribution in the U S basically says it's designed to not develop tolerance, which is one of the things that is notorious with caffeine.

[00:58:28] Is it

[00:58:29] Carl Lanore: [00:58:29] more you take

[00:58:30] Chris Dziak: [00:58:30] the more you need to take, whereas that's not supposed to be the case with Tia

[00:58:34] Carl Lanore: [00:58:34] cream. So, and as a, aside from that, my, when I start using high doses of caffeine again, and I said that again, not that I'm planning on, but when I usually weaned myself off, I stopped the field. Great. I start out with an energy drink or just a cup of, uh, you know, a couple of shots of espresso.

[00:58:57] And then I slowly go down that road again. [00:59:00] What happens to me is. As you point out, I need more and more caffeine. And once I get around 1500 milligrams of caffeine a day, caffeine slots have the, have the exact opposite effect on me. And I understand why they give children with ADHD. And pheta means because what it does is.

[00:59:20] It kind of stifles my adrenals. I think at the moment, Beatles are like, we can't keep up with you. We're just not even going to do anything anymore. I actually start to get sleepy and tired at what I'm taking, like 1500 milligrams of caffeine continuously for long periods of time. It actually has the opposite effect.

[00:59:40] So that's an example of the tolerance that you build up to it.

[00:59:45] Chris Dziak: [00:59:45] Right. Absolutely. Absolutely. And then as you know, when you stop taking it, the, you know, there are some withdrawal effects associated with

[00:59:53] Carl Lanore: [00:59:53] it. Horrible. They're horrible. Right. Headaches. I literally would fall asleep sitting at my desk before the show.

[00:59:59] My [01:00:00] friend Brian would come in. I would be snoring sitting here and it would take a good week to unwind from that. You would, it's horrible. The last one. The acronym is pea, but it's not fenal alanine or whatever people think it is. Right. This is palmate tol Ethel. Alamein what is it?

[01:00:20] Chris Dziak: [01:00:20] So, so this one has been I'm around for quite a long time and it isn't really.

[01:00:29] Geared as like a stimulant type thing supplement, but what it, what it's good for or what it's known for and been studied in clinicals is, is pain management because it affects inflammation. And so that's, you know, one of those areas where if you have inflammation, especially in the brain, it's absolutely going to affect your cognitive function.

[01:00:52] And so pea is one of those ones. It is. Real subtle. Like you won't feel it. If you [01:01:00] take it one time, you almost have to take it regularly for it to build up and then you start to have a feeling associated with it. And a lot of people associate it with reduced pain or pain management basically.

[01:01:15] Carl Lanore: [01:01:15] Well, do we, we don't, we know that depression.

[01:01:18] And is affected by inflammation in the brain. There are specific types of depression, major depressive disorders, where infant inflammation is the problem. And if the brain is inflamed, then you kind of like embracing fog world. So I see this as being a, an enabler of the other three. Like as we, as we start to lower the brain inflammation, these other three actually start to have greater and greater effect.

[01:01:44] That's that was my, some semis summarizing of, of using them. Uh, because what I found was by the fourth or fifth day of using this stack, I w it felt stronger as opposed to weaker, instead of me developing a [01:02:00] tolerance. It seemed like I was getting more from it and they could very well be that the pea was having an effect on amplifying the other three because the levels of inflammation in my brain were being reduced.

[01:02:16] Chris Dziak: [01:02:16] Yeah. I mean, I think there's absolutely something to that. You know, PA is super interesting. It's actually one of our newer products. And so we have been investigating it more and more. Um, and what I think if I maybe recalling this incorrectly, but I believe it interacts with the endocannabinoid

[01:02:38] Dr. Matt Dawson, MD: [01:02:38] system

[01:02:38] Carl Lanore: [01:02:38] really,

[01:02:39] Chris Dziak: [01:02:39] you know, Yeah, I think so.

[01:02:42] I'm like, now I'm second guessing

[01:02:44] Carl Lanore: [01:02:44] myself,

[01:02:46] Dr. Matt Dawson, MD: [01:02:46] but

[01:02:47] Chris Dziak: [01:02:47] basically, you know, it's, it's kind of yeah. Related. I mean, it's not, um, You know, so if you look around, you'll see, you'll see a lot of people call it [01:03:00] a endocannabinoid basically. And so that it interacts with some of that. And so like, what they've seen is, and it may be kind of like related to CBD a bit is they've given pea to the people that have like ticks.

[01:03:15] Right. You know, like

[01:03:15] Carl Lanore: [01:03:15] faith. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[01:03:18] Chris Dziak: [01:03:18] Yeah. And so, you know, that's kind of

[01:03:21] Dr. Matt Dawson, MD: [01:03:21] all related,

[01:03:22] Chris Dziak: [01:03:22] you know,

[01:03:24] Carl Lanore: [01:03:24] Yeah, this is fascinating. I didn't know. I didn't know that that, that it had a kind of cannabinoid type effect. That's, that's fascinating to me. So here, here's what we discovered. And so all of us, we agreed that these four were going to be in our stack.

[01:03:37] We experimented with them and we found that no one got the jitters. I did not feel like I could not fall asleep at night when I took it late in the day. Um, and I definitely felt more alert. Now, I'm not people say focus, focus is meaningless to me. I've done LSD and had such focus. I couldn't stop looking at a bird.

[01:03:58] Like that's focused,

[01:04:00] [01:04:00] Chris Dziak: [01:04:00] like being able.

[01:04:01] Carl Lanore: [01:04:01] Yeah. I mean, that's not, that's not what we're talking about here. When we talk about folk, what these do, what these do and what these do is they actually improve mental acuity. And they're and it's noticeable. It's noticeable. So my audience has a special offer. I have to get back to this page here.

[01:04:23] So those of you watching the show or listening, I'm going to give you the URL. If you go to the URL SHR network.biz/super human stat, I do, we have to use the code SHR, cause I'm actually at the page right now and it looks like. Oh, yeah, it does. It says on the page to use. So if you use that, if you use that URL, if you use the URL SHR network, uh, dot BA SHR network.biz/superhuman stack, I'm going to put this up for people to see it.

[01:04:57] You will be transported to a page [01:05:00] where you can order all four of these and buy or ordering all four of them have putting it up right now. Here we go. Uh, by ordering all four of them, you save 25% off. Uh, if you use the code SHR and it says that right on the page, uh, when you look at it, it says the code is right there.

[01:05:21] So if you use that URL, SHR network.biz/superhuman stack, you'll save 25% off. And now these are four big bottles of product. Now, let me tell you what my stack is. My stack was one of everything, but to have dynamite, I felt that when I took two and I mean, and one of the Sal butylene and one of the pea, and one of the, there was no doubt in my mind, like, Oh my God, like I D I feel this, I could go train.

[01:05:50] I could go ride my motorcycle to work. I don't have to worry about feeling sluggish or tired or anything like that. And I didn't have the effects of caffeine at all. And the fact that I started [01:06:00] taking these. When I was coming off of caffeine and they worked spoke volumes to me because when I come off of caffeine, nothing works except except more caffeine.

[01:06:13] And yet I was able to take these and feel alert, even though my body was crashing, my adrenals were crashing. So that's saying something right there. Yeah, the link works, uh, geared, uh,  is saying that it's working, he's watching from YouTube today. It, this is a great stack. If now you can try one of each cap to start out with, you can try my favorite, which is one of the three caps and two of the Dynamind, or you can find your own, but the bottom line is these are compounds that work.

[01:06:47] And instead of buying up, pre-made fancy schmancy bottle of, of, of, uh, nootropics. That's going to cost you $7,500 every single month. These are going to let, if you use, if you can get by with [01:07:00] one of each of these, you're going to last, if one of them is going to last, at least two months, one bottle is going to last three months.

[01:07:06] So this is really not only a great opportunity to pick up. A stack that we all tried and came to the conclusion works, but like dirt cheap, when you look at it on a per capsule basis, really, I think it's fantastic. You have anything to add to that?

[01:07:22] Chris Dziak: [01:07:22] No, I mean, we absolutely try and, and make our products approachable to everybody and that includes setting good prices and things like that.

[01:07:33] And then likewise, our philosophy was, has always been.

[01:07:39] Carl Lanore: [01:07:39] That

[01:07:39] Chris Dziak: [01:07:39] everybody's a little bit different. And so there's lots a popular products on the market that are just a blend of a bunch of different things. And I've taken some of those products and some of them are fantastic and they work very well. But then again, I've taken some that don't work very well.

[01:07:59] And it's [01:08:00] like, there, there might be one or two ingredients in there that doesn't work. For me. And that's why it's so interesting. The, you know, the previous, the wild health folks you had on earlier with, with the genomic sequencing, because there are actionable steps that you can take once your genome has been sequenced in terms of supplementation with dietary supplements,

[01:08:24] Carl Lanore: [01:08:24] you know, and one

[01:08:25] Chris Dziak: [01:08:25] of, one of the most common we talked about one is the, uh, The MTF HR.

[01:08:33] Carl Lanore: [01:08:33] Yeah. Yeah. Um, methylated. Folate. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:08:36] Chris Dziak: [01:08:36] Right. Whether you're an over methylator or an under methylator. And so, you know, that that's, what's

[01:08:42] Carl Lanore: [01:08:42] hard for me

[01:08:44] Chris Dziak: [01:08:44] with like, you know, clinicals and stuff like that is it you're trying

[01:08:48] Carl Lanore: [01:08:48] to really

[01:08:48] Dr. Matt Dawson, MD: [01:08:48] weigh

[01:08:49] Carl Lanore: [01:08:49] all these people

[01:08:51] Chris Dziak: [01:08:51] from a very diverse background biologically.

[01:08:55] And so it's really hard to. Determined that something's [01:09:00] effective or not, you know? And so like, anecdotally something can work for me, but it may not work for you. And it may be due to my genetics that that's why it works for me. Right. So that's kind of why, you know, we'd started looking at a lot of the new Tropic base products on the market and taking a lot of those individual ingredients and encapsulating those individual ingredients so that you could then go and build.

[01:09:26] Your own formula to basically suit your needs.

[01:09:30] Carl Lanore: [01:09:30] Right? Right. So again, Sal Buda mean Dinah mean Tia Crean and pea, which is actually Powell metal, Ethel Alamein and not fenal alanine, whatever that other one is.

[01:09:43] Chris Dziak: [01:09:43] Yeah. Tino ethylamine as other, yeah. It's very confusing.

[01:09:47] Carl Lanore: [01:09:47] I've used that one. It doesn't last long.

[01:09:49] It lasts like minutes and it wears right off. Right.

[01:09:52] Chris Dziak: [01:09:52] It's supposed to be kind of like a happy supplement and there's people that try and combine that with an [01:10:00] MAOI to make the effect longer, but that's kind of dangerous stuff when you're messing with it like that. Cause it's trying to get high, you know, and that's like not, not what we're essentially going to push.

[01:10:13] We're trying to help people, you know, get from a hundred and. 5% to 110 or a hundred percent. You're 105. Right, right. And, and just little improvements. But we do get a lot of feedback from our customers on the individual products. And it's good because then they can basically go and build their own stack.

[01:10:38] And we have a lot of different products. Available for you to do that. And we welcome Murphy feedback too. And in terms of like looking at products that we should launch and stuff, dad, I know you and I have talked about right. Product that fit within like what we do, but are, you know, [01:11:00] there's overlap within a lot of other areas too.

[01:11:02] Like, you know, cause a lot of the stuff we sell. Is

[01:11:05] Carl Lanore: [01:11:05] is in your pre-workout

[01:11:07] Chris Dziak: [01:11:07] stack. You know, we sell Nault and, and things like that because they, you know, a lot of these, these supplements have an effect that's more than there primary purpose, you know, where taurine actually is. One of the best are supplements for cognition, oddly.

[01:11:26] And I mean, like it's

[01:11:26] Dr. Matt Dawson, MD: [01:11:26] no.

[01:11:27] Carl Lanore: [01:11:27] Creamy people don't realize creatine is an amazing agent for brain function.

[01:11:37] Chris Dziak: [01:11:37] 100. And so

[01:11:39] Carl Lanore: [01:11:39] like the, the only reason

[01:11:41] Chris Dziak: [01:11:41] that we don't have creatine on our website is that we tend to focus

[01:11:46] Carl Lanore: [01:11:46] really hard on

[01:11:48] Chris Dziak: [01:11:48] encapsulated products. And so creatine. You know, like your standard dose, right? So you're looking at eight capsules

[01:11:56] Carl Lanore: [01:11:56] or something.

[01:11:57] Creatine has become a commodity item. Like [01:12:00] why would you want to carry Creotine when there's places that you could go for 1995 and get a really high quality German micronized kilo of Creotine like no, a hundred percent. Yeah.

[01:12:11] Chris Dziak: [01:12:11] I mean, that's a hundred percent correct. I mean, when costs, when you can get it at Costco, it's hard to compete,

[01:12:18] Carl Lanore: [01:12:18] you know?

[01:12:18] Yeah. So that's the stack. If you go to SHR network.biz/superhuman stack, give it a try. You'll save 25% off. I've failed to say they get free shipping too. Cause you do free shipping on all these products as well. Right? On

[01:12:32] Chris Dziak: [01:12:32] all orders domestic, we do free shipping.

[01:12:35] Carl Lanore: [01:12:35] And then, so it's free. Yeah. And try and try yours.

[01:12:40] And you may find out that three of them work really good for you in one suck. So when you reorder it just don't get that one. You know,

[01:12:47] Chris Dziak: [01:12:47] we also have a couple other stacks, you know, that we've built based on community and anecdotal reports and, and, you know, so there's some other stuff there that, that may.

[01:13:00] [01:13:00] Appeal

[01:13:01] Carl Lanore: [01:13:01] to

[01:13:02] Chris Dziak: [01:13:02] the SHR audience based on like what effect they're looking for. I would say that the superhuman stack and you can correct me is almost equivalent to like a pre-workout like, you could almost use it as a pre-workout, you know, in terms of like the type of alertness that it provides.

[01:13:23] Carl Lanore: [01:13:23] Right. Right.

[01:13:25] Absolutely. And so if somebody arrives at the super stack page and they go, I like all this stuff, but I'd also like to buy this, how do they do they do they load their shopping cart from that page and then continue to shop? And if they do that, will the, the code save them 25% off of whatever they put in their cart.

[01:13:44] Chris Dziak: [01:13:44] It unfortunately at Wong. So it'll, it'll give him 25 off

[01:13:49] Carl Lanore: [01:13:49] of those four stacks. What I recommend doing

[01:13:52] Chris Dziak: [01:13:52] for the, for the SHR audience is like, it's no, Yes you to place two orders. And the [01:14:00] reason I suggest you do that is you do the order for the superhuman stack to get the 25% off. And then you like all the other stuff you can order and use the SHR 10 code.

[01:14:12] So it's slightly different coupon to get the 10% off of the remaining products.

[01:14:17] Carl Lanore: [01:14:17] But we, we.

[01:14:19] Chris Dziak: [01:14:19] Wanting to develop a stack with Carl and deeply discounted so that we could get it out to folks. Cause

[01:14:27] Carl Lanore: [01:14:27] you know, we're,

[01:14:28] Chris Dziak: [01:14:28] we're confident in our end, if you try it and like it, you're going to buy it again. Right. So that's why we're pricing it.

[01:14:34] So competitively. You know, or aggressively, as you can

[01:14:38] Carl Lanore: [01:14:38] say, and shipping and shipping is shipping. Isn't a consideration. So what if you put two orders together? It's not like, Oh wait, I would, I gotta pay shipping twice now. No, it's not a consideration anyway. That's great. And let's

[01:14:49] Chris Dziak: [01:14:49] you want expedited shipping, which we do, but if, if you go and you run the expedited shipping on just one of the orders is we'll combine out.

[01:14:58] It's just something that [01:15:00] we do anyways.

[01:15:00] Carl Lanore: [01:15:00] Okay. That's good. Do they have to put a note to alert people that they have to orders? They'll catch it.

[01:15:06] Chris Dziak: [01:15:06] No, as long as it's like temporarily close in time be right. You know? And so, yeah, we actually just launched a fantastic shipping service, which is. Uh, FedEx today to basically everywhere in the U S from nine.

[01:15:23] So yeah, I mean, it's, it's cheap to get it fast if you want to get it fast and that's okay. You know, we're not like other companies that go and Mark up the shipping, like that's not where we're trying to

[01:15:35] Carl Lanore: [01:15:35] make a few extra shackles. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly exactly. I, Chris, thank you so much for the hard work to help us put this together again.

[01:15:44] SHR network.biz/superhuman stacks. Save 25% off these four exciting nootropics mix and match them. As you see while you're there, shop some more and use SHR 10 for 10% off. Everything else that you want to buy [01:16:00] free shipping on everything. It's a no brainer. Thanks, uh, for being here today. And of course thank you for being a sponsor of the show.

[01:16:06] Chris Dziak: [01:16:06] Thank you. Pleasure. Carl, have a great one. Thanks

[01:16:09] Carl Lanore: [01:16:09] again. Take care. I, and that's going to be it for today. Uh, so tomorrow is a Thursday. I know we have a show. We have no show Friday. Uh, we're going to have a long weekend. Uh, I will be off Friday and Monday, uh, because so many of you are going to be celebrating the holiday weekend and you don't need to be reminded to eat healthy or not drink booze, but if you are going to drink, don't forget the DHM.

[01:16:33] I absolutely tell you if you over there at pure nootropics, ordering this stack, get yourself a bottle of DHM you take one of those caps before you go out drinking you take one of them. When you get home before bed, no hangover, no hangover in zero, zero, zero. You'll just feel like you didn't drink all night.

[01:16:50] That's exactly the God's honest truth. So don't forget that too. I will see everybody tomorrow with more super human radio. Please share the show. Always share the show. Let more [01:17:00] people know about the show. We'll see you tomorrow.