[00:00:00] Carl Lanore: [00:00:00] Welcome back to another episode of superhuman radio. Today is December 16th, 2020, and we have a really good show planned for you today. First hour, we're going to be looking at the role of the bowel in managing, uh, vitamin D uh, regulation. Uh, some recent research out of Rutgers university shows that there's parts of the intestine that are doing things that we never realized and what the implications of that are.

[00:00:25] A lot of people in my audience, I know suffer from. Crohn's and, um, IBS and ulcerative colitis. And we've done shows about that. Well, this is very important to those of you that fit into that category later in the show, we're gonna talk about there's really amazing little device that I've fallen in love with.

[00:00:43] I carry it around the house. Uh, it's called milestone storm. We're going to talk about that later because you can actually massage use it to recover faster, treat injuries with it in the comfort of your own home, your car, your bed, wherever you want to. It's very exciting. We'll talk about that later. Of course, [00:01:00] Friday is my 15 year anniversary show.

[00:01:03] And those of you who've been listening to the show for a long time. I'm asking you to do one of two things. Either email, email This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. with just your full name and the year you started listening. If. You're a little more courageous than that. You can make a video with your smartphone and short video.

[00:01:22] 10, 15, 20 seconds. Wish the show, a happy 15th anniversary and upload it to SHR network.biz/your story. And we'll include it in the montage that we'll be playing throughout the show. Well, we're going to have a couple of guests on the show. These are guests that had a. Genuine impact in the direction that the show took as it, it changed organically.

[00:01:45] Uh, but the show is really going to be about listeners more than anything else. So, uh, hopefully, uh, you can get those in and you can be included and immortalized, uh, in, in the show, of course we have to thank our title sponsor and that's legendary foods. [00:02:00] The URL is SHR network.biz/legendary. The code is SHR 10, the most exciting things right now.

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[00:02:49] And now without further delay, I'll bring my guests on. And just get the artwork set up here. Dr. Silvia Christakos [00:03:00] is with Rutgers university. How you doing Dr. Christakos welcome to the show. Thanks for being here. And we almost didn't do this show today because we had some technical difficulties that we thought we would get I have to give up, but we prevailed.

[00:03:11] So that's all letters to that. Dr. Christakos talk about this research. Why this study, uh, that you recently published, uh, what, what preceded this, that required this research to be done?

[00:03:25] Dr Sylvia. Christakos: [00:03:25] So, uh, previously it had been thought that only the proximal intestine, this is the part right after the stomach. What's the most important part for regulation, uh, calcium absorption by vitamin D.

[00:03:40] And they said the rest of the intestine, you know, this particularly the colon doesn't play any of it. Correct. But, uh, there were some patients studies where. Uh, the patient's had extensive resection of the small intestine and those patients [00:04:00] were shown to have a calcium, uh, intestinal calcium absorption.

[00:04:05] If the colon was preserved, if the colon wasn't preserved, uh, they, they had less. Calcium absorption and more bone disease. So that's there. Well, they preserved the colon and they had extensive resection of the other sections of the intestine. Um, the colon must be doing something, uh, even contrary to what had been thought.

[00:04:29] So, um, we decided to test that. And I can tell you the mouse model.

[00:04:37] Carl Lanore: [00:04:37] Yeah. So th that's what I'd say. So to explain this study, what did, what exactly did you do? How was it constructed?

[00:04:43] Dr Sylvia. Christakos: [00:04:43] So what we did, so having seen this and saying, look, everybody else just concentrates on the duodenum, but these patients did better if they had the colon.

[00:04:53] So there must be something going on in the distal intestine. So we had a mouse model [00:05:00] of, um, Which lacked, uh, the effect of vitamin D. So it was, um, it was genetically engineered mouse. Um, have no vitamin D receptor. So these mice had no protein that binds the active form of vitamin D and that protein mediates its actions.

[00:05:23] So they have, uh, rickets, they have bone disease because they don't have any vitamin D receptor we'll call it the VDR vitamin D receptor knockout mouse. So, uh, we. Those mice, they had rickets and we genetically engineered into those mice. Um, the vitamin D receptor only, only in the distal intestine, only in the discipline test and including the colon.

[00:05:50] So there was no vitamin D receptor anywhere except the discipline

[00:05:56] Carl Lanore: [00:05:56] test. That's brilliant. Okay.

[00:05:58] Dr Sylvia. Christakos: [00:05:58] So what I [00:06:00] had expected to occur. Was maybe they'd have some better bones than the vitamin D receptor knockout mouse, but what we found, not only do they have better, you know, uh, a little better, they were actually totally reversed.

[00:06:18] The, of rickets seen in the vitamin D receptor knock out. Nice. So the, the bonds were now normal. If you just had the vitamin D receptor in the distal intestine, So we were pretty surprised by those findings. I thought a little better, but that they were completely normal. So, um, that was, uh, what, uh, we were surprised and, uh, what this bottom line is.

[00:06:47] Uh, we've neglected this other area of the intestine as a factor involved in mediating, uh, vitamin D intestinal calcium absorption. And that may indeed play more of an important [00:07:00] role than we thought.

[00:07:01] Carl Lanore: [00:07:01] Well, it sounds like it plays a very important role considering that just that portion of the intestines was working and it was adequate enough to, to correct, uh, for this, uh, or compensate for the, so a couple of questions, first of all, just kind of set the table.

[00:07:17] We're exclusively talking about dietary vitamin D here, right? Or does, does, um, vitamin D produce through photosynthesis in the skin also get absorbed in the intestines?

[00:07:29] Dr Sylvia. Christakos: [00:07:29] Yeah, actually in no, that's a really good question. Um, there are very few foods that contain vitamin D. If you have your calcium and vitamin D supplemented, uh, dairy products.

[00:07:44] You know, for dairy products, for orange juice, milk, um, however, and fatty fish. So your supplemental, supplemental dairy products contain vitamin D and fatty fish, but that's about it. You're [00:08:00] actually most important source of vitamin D it's the sun. Right. And, uh, and the sudden, um, it has to have certain UV radiation.

[00:08:11] Uh, so that if you're, uh, in the, in the Northeast, in the winter, it's not, even if it's a sunny day, it's not going to help you out. Right. So it, it has to be, um, in the summer or in warm climates. Right. So many people in the Northeast and, um, other regions where there's not, um, sunlight that produces.

[00:08:38] Sufficient UV radiation. Um, you don't get the benefit of vitamin D uh, being formed in the skin. So what happens is you there's, uh, uh, pre vitamin D and with UV radiation that pre vitamin D becomes vitamin D in your skin. Right. And [00:09:00] actually, if you're, uh, in the summer, 15 minutes in the sun, you get about 10,000 units of vitamin D.

[00:09:08] So the sunlight is really, uh, the most important, not most important, most effective, um, producer of vitamin D, but we all have to be careful not to be out in the sun too much because of, um, skin cancer. So, uh, the bottom line is people who live in the Northeast, or if you're not, um, In the sun, uh, and have the benefit of the sun.

[00:09:36] Uh, at many times of the year, you need to take supplements of vitamin D, right? Because there's not enough food, that habit. And many of us are not in the sun, uh, with proper UV radiation,

[00:09:54] Carl Lanore: [00:09:54] but, but this, but the, the, and as I understood it in the past, and that's why I asked this question, [00:10:00] The vitamin D that's produced in this gun Assan and, and pre vitamin D the longer you stay in the sun, there's a, there's a negative fee back regulatory effect where your body actually starts to degrade the vitamin D so that you don't overproduce it.

[00:10:16] And that that's something we don't see with orally administered, but so. The intestines. Yeah. They don't play any role in, in absorption of vitamin D that's produced in the skin. Right. That just goes right into the blood and into the liver. It's converted to 25 OHD. And so on that, that doesn't rely on this stomach.

[00:10:36] I, so, so, um, We're talking predominantly about, uh, orally administered vitamin D, but it, this raises another question. So there's a lot of people out there who have been diagnosed with Frank ulcerative colitis or some bowel disorders. And it's clear that those people would probably have to try a [00:11:00] different source of administration.

[00:11:01] Maybe they should be using a injectable vitamin D or something like that to, to, to overcome the malabsorption. But what about people who just have nagging, you know, subclinical issues with their colon? They could be at risk as well because they're not being diagnosed. And the doctor saying, Hey, you're not going to absorb vitamin D from your diet.

[00:11:22] So you need to do something else. They just go through their life without adequate amounts of vitamin D.

[00:11:28] Dr Sylvia. Christakos: [00:11:28] Well, you know, uh, what it is the people with colitis that people have problems with their colon, they still have the proximal intestine. Um, intact. So even though the distal intestine plays a role, the proximal intestine, you can't minimize the importance of the proximal intestine.

[00:11:50] So all those people have the proximal intestine. So, um, they perhaps can be compensated, but perhaps the people that have colitis [00:12:00] and they have to watch out for bone disease, you know, maybe they're the S they have the proximal intestine, but. Uh, if you meet the discipline testing, as well as the proximal intestine, it's not to minimize the role of the proximal intestine.

[00:12:13] Right. Which is

[00:12:14] Carl Lanore: [00:12:14] well, but obviously nature gave us both for a reason. They probably compliment each other and working on absorption.

[00:12:20] Dr Sylvia. Christakos: [00:12:20] Yeah. And so, uh, people with colitis should be. Um, and their, uh, providers should be sensitive to, uh, what, uh, what is going on with the bones. And, and very often if, uh, all the positions are specialized, right.

[00:12:36] So if you're a GI physician, are you worried about, uh, the, the bones, like an endocrinologist, maybe? No. So, uh, there has to be crosstalk, uh, between the different specialties and therefore this alerts, maybe perhaps the GI specialist. Yeah. They have, uh, Crohn's disease or, uh, they have inflammatory bowel disease check the bombs, you know, there, you know, the distal [00:13:00] intestine may be really impressed.

[00:13:01] You know, play a role, an important role. And we haven't worried about it because you're saying, Oh, they have the proximal intestine intact. That's fine. But

[00:13:11] Carl Lanore: [00:13:11] is it enough? Is it enough to start to pay attention? You know, there's becoming an awareness. About the importance of vitamin D over the past decade.

[00:13:19] Uh, and I like myself, I have my vitamin D level by 25 Oh eight fee levels checked a few times a year, uh, because I want to make sure that, um, when I'm supplementing I'm in that target, I'm one of those people who is in the sun all the time. I have a lot of melanin. But more importantly, I have some different ideas about where skin cancer comes from.

[00:13:39] And so I'm not afraid of the sun. My ancestors, clearly weren't afraid of the sun, our ancestors, yours and mine. They weren't afraid of the Sunday. We're in the sun all the time. And I don't think skin cancer was as prevalent. So there's some, there's some, uh, issues of modernity that are contributing to, uh, the formation of skin cancer.

[00:13:56] But with that being said, I have my OHD levels tested in the [00:14:00] summer as well, because. I lay in the sun continuously. I get so dark, so dark. Um, In Italian Mellon jam is eggplant. My, my mother, my mother used to call me a little, little egg plant when I was a kid, because I would be out in the sun. I would turn colors.

[00:14:15] I'd get, I get so dark. Um, so I guess the idea that checking for vitamin D levels is, is that not adequate for these doctors? Th th th the, you know, the endocrinologist knows to do it, but. Maybe the gastroenterologist needs to start saying, well, I need to start checking these people may have malabsorption.

[00:14:34] Let me start adding 25 OHD tests to, to my, to my panels.

[00:14:39] Dr Sylvia. Christakos: [00:14:39] Yeah. I think that would be important, particularly for, you know, people in the Northeast and, uh, and then the North and the certain latitudes.

[00:14:51] Carl Lanore: [00:14:51] Yes, very good. Okay. So let's, let's go back to your research. So after you discovered that in the. Uh, [00:15:00] knockout on knockouts rodents that they started to recover from their rickets.

[00:15:06] And so on. Did you, did you determine how long it took for adequate levels of vitamin D being absorbed in the, in the, in the colon to actually affect these changes? Was it pretty rapid or did it take awhile?

[00:15:22] Dr Sylvia. Christakos: [00:15:22] The mice? Uh, you know, because they're genetically engineered. They were born with, uh, the vitamin D receptor in the distal intestine.

[00:15:33] So, um, we actually measured them at eight weeks of age, which is adults for the mouse. So you're saying what about when they were younger? Um, So I didn't do a younger studies than

[00:15:52] Carl Lanore: [00:15:52] adult. Okay. But even, but that's, uh, that's impressive that adults are harder to change, you know, they're harder to see because they are kind of [00:16:00] in they've they've reached their, their peak, let's say, and they're harder to change.

[00:16:04] So you still saw remineralization of the bones once the, the, the, the

[00:16:10] Dr Sylvia. Christakos: [00:16:10] was correctly.

[00:16:10] Carl Lanore: [00:16:10] Perfect. Perfect. And weeks and weeks, how long did it take.

[00:16:15] Dr Sylvia. Christakos: [00:16:15] Eight weeks of age at eight weeks of age for the mouse. Right. And

[00:16:20] Carl Lanore: [00:16:20] wow, that's stunning. What else did you learn from this research? Was there anything that really kind of jumped out at you?

[00:16:27] Like I know you had end points in mind, but was there anything that made you go wow, we didn't expect to see that.

[00:16:33] Dr Sylvia. Christakos: [00:16:33] The other thing we didn't expect, um, was that we, you know, we do, uh, genome-wide studies. So you know, what other things were changed. And, uh, what we found was the genes involved in the duodenum in active calcium transport were the same genes in the distal intestine, uh, that were induced.

[00:16:56] So I S so we said, you know, before that people say, [00:17:00] Oh, the distal intestine, first of all, isn't involved. And if it is involved, it's just passive calcium transport. It doesn't have, uh, the same. Uh, gene says perhaps the proximal intestine does doesn't respond to vitamin D. Similarly, we found that it was the same, you know, the same genes, the same players, the calcium channel, the calcium binding protein that's in the proximal intestine.

[00:17:27] We're also in the distal intestine and responded to vitamin D. So this is active calcium transport in both sections. So, um, I, I think that previously it's, it's not passive transport. It's just like the duodenum. So, and then the other thing that we found that was interesting because it's a genome wide study, is that a manganese efflux transporter that protects against manganese toxicity was, uh, [00:18:00] markedly induced.

[00:18:00] Just like those. Uh, calcium channel, just like the calcium binding protein. And you're going to manganese efflux transporter and manganese is very important for us certain processes and it's, uh, uh, An ion that's needed for, uh, various enzymatic reactions. So it's important for your body. So it's for your bones and toxicity, uh, will result in neurological problems.

[00:18:30] So why was the manganese efflux transporter also induced? So we're doing further studies on that. So what that implied to us is that we all think of vitamin D as, uh, involved. Just calcium homeostasis, that's its main role. And it's particularly in the intestine. And now we're saying, Hey, wait a minute.

[00:18:54] It's not only calcium, maybe the effects, uh, other ions as well. [00:19:00] So vitamin D may have a role, not only in calcium homeostasis, but also in the homeostasis of other, um, ions.

[00:19:09] Carl Lanore: [00:19:09] It makes it makes sense. Cause calcium, you know, I mean it's the same day, the family of these. Uh, the, these, uh, I like to call them minerals, but, you know, they're, they're, they're trace minerals and iron and so on.

[00:19:21] And so they all kind of fit into that family group. And it makes sense that the vitamin D would influence many of them, not just one, maybe not all of them, but many of them, for sure. And

[00:19:32] Dr Sylvia. Christakos: [00:19:32] I think this opens up another whole area. And then another way of thinking about vitamin D you know,

[00:19:38] Carl Lanore: [00:19:38] w where the rodents, uh, tested for serum levels of, of, uh, OHD.

[00:19:45] Well, they

[00:19:45] Dr Sylvia. Christakos: [00:19:45] tell, uh, we, uh, tested them for levels of calcium serum, calcium and phosphate, the, um, the, the mice that just had B the vitamin D receptor and the distal intestine, their serum, [00:20:00] calcium and phosphate were totally normal. Now we didn't do 25 hydroxy on them.

[00:20:06] Carl Lanore: [00:20:06] Yeah. I would just be curious to see what their levels were when they started to see reversal of.

[00:20:13] Of these, but I understand this was a calcium study. You know, vitamin D was kind of like a facilitator in this study. Uh, you really want to see what was happening with calcium because of bone mineralization. Oh, it makes perfect sense.

[00:20:26] Dr Sylvia. Christakos: [00:20:26] Indeed. Mediated calcium homeostasis. Right. So if it's only vitamin D mediated calcium

[00:20:31] Carl Lanore: [00:20:31] homeostasis, we have, uh, a question from a live viewer, Sean Bean, uh, who is a practitioner.

[00:20:38] He says, what about proper. Improper bile flow to absorb oral vitamin supplementation due to the lack of emulsification. He has a client. That's a, uh, he has a client 18 year old that has crones has altered vitamin D one 25 ratio to D O H three. I mean a 25 O H. [00:21:00] So you have any opinions on the bile, uh, relationship and, and the absorption of vitamin D.

[00:21:10] Dr Sylvia. Christakos: [00:21:10] Um, now I'm not sure bile flow, uh, directly affects, uh, vitamin D. Um, as far as I know. Now this patient has altered vitamin D one 25. Uh, what are the levels of 25 hydroxy D you can ask Sean, what is levels of 25 hydroxy D in these patients?

[00:21:36] Carl Lanore: [00:21:36] Yeah. Sean, if you could update your comments, I see you just posted something else.

[00:21:40] And this is about obese people. We know that obese people have a more difficult time absorbing, um, supplemental vitamin D three. So while he's, while he's updating his, uh, his con his question. The, um, the there's a lot of people out there having other lots of different types [00:22:00] of surgeries, you know, like you said, resectioning, um, or even the, uh, um, gastric bypass, they all affect, uh, vitamin D absorption don't they?

[00:22:13] Dr Sylvia. Christakos: [00:22:13] Yes. The gastric bypass past patients. I have a really a severe problem because they're losing the proximal intestine and, uh, they indeed have bone disease and, uh, the, the clinicians are very aware of that. So, um, the, and why, I think this is important. Uh, can we target for these people? Who've had the God stroke.

[00:22:44] Bypass the discipline testing and calcium absorption in the distal intestine. And would that help those individuals and what we're doing, uh, as the next step and what's currently in progress is that we're, um, uh, [00:23:00] collaborating with, uh, chemists who made analogs of the active form of vitamin D that will only target the distal intestine.

[00:23:10] So what they do, they. They add a glucuronide to the active form of vitamin D. And that glucuronide is only claimed in the distal intestine. It has the bacteria in the distal intestine. So, uh, that will cause it to be active only in the distal intestine and, and, uh, we're looking at the effectiveness, at least in mice and aging mice on, um, These analogs and on improving calcium absorption, if you just target the distal intestine.

[00:23:44] So maybe, uh, for the patients with gastric bypass who have so many metabolic abnormalities that at least to help their bones, that you can target, uh, the distal intestine through some of [00:24:00] these analogs.

[00:24:00] Carl Lanore: [00:24:00] Yeah. They, they malabsorbed copper. You're talking about different Island. They malabsorbed, everything.

[00:24:05] It's very sad. It's, it's, it's very, very sad. Um, so Sean Bean did update his comment. He said he just says 25 with one 25 at 88. And

[00:24:16] Dr Sylvia. Christakos: [00:24:16] what's the 25,

[00:24:18] Carl Lanore: [00:24:18] I guess that's the OHD

[00:24:20] Dr Sylvia. Christakos: [00:24:20] Oh, Oh, 25 is

[00:24:22] Carl Lanore: [00:24:22] that's kind of low 25 ohm,

[00:24:25] Dr Sylvia. Christakos: [00:24:25] you know, sometimes I think, um, The overdo it, you know, with testing of like normal people, everybody has to get tested to 25 hydroxy, but you really have to get tested and it's 25 really bad.

[00:24:39] Uh, they, you know, there's been a controversy on whether 30. Or, uh, 20 is okay. And the bottom line is, uh, the endocrine society says it should be 30. And, um, the Institute of medicine said now 20 is okay if you're normal. So the [00:25:00] consensus is that you should be 30, uh, and above 30, within a range is okay. Um, if you're older and if you have some disease process, if you're a healthy and young.

[00:25:15] Twenties. Okay. So, so 25 is okay. I'm not sure about, um, one 25 level and, um, you know, bile acids can bind to the vitamin D receptor. So, um, and they, but it's the bile acid. Um, mechanisms that can occur through the vitamin D receptor, not, uh, the vitamin, not that the bio acids affect vitamin D, but they can affect their own action through the vitamin D receptor.

[00:25:49] So I'm not sure about, uh, the bile acid and this patient. And I can just comment on, uh, that, you know, 25 hydroxy is okay, and I'm [00:26:00] not sure what's going on here.

[00:26:02] Carl Lanore: [00:26:02] So we have to take a commercial break. When we come back, I'm going to submit a question to you because I have a theory on how to find every individual person's sweet spot.

[00:26:14] For 25 hydroxy and I want to run it by you and you can, and I want you to be, if you call you're crazy. That's ridiculous. I've never heard of that before. I want you to tell me when we come out of the break, we're going to be right back with more super human radio stuff. This is the superhuman channel where brawn and brains finally meet.

[00:26:38] Welcome back. We're talking with Dr. Sylvia. Christakos from Rutgers university. We're talking about regulation of a vitamin D and the intestines. And in the more importantly, uh, the colon, which was previously thought not to even play a role. So I have to give you a little of the backstory or to [00:27:00] understand why I think this is the best way that we should be testing patients for vitamin D 10 years ago, 12 years ago, I started doing shows about insulin resistance.

[00:27:09] Looking at it strictly from, um, a dietary standpoint, not a disease, but something that's manageable by a diet. And it became, uh, very obvious to me that checking blood sugar in the morning and seeing this number, whatever 75, uh, Is meaningless unless you know, how much insulin your body is producing to achieve that 75, the analogy I gave on the show back then was, you know, um, you can't tell how fast you're going in a car by looking at the distance between the gas pedal and the floorboard.

[00:27:48] If you're going uphill, you're probably going slower for the same amount of engine, uh, power that you're producing, if you're going downhill. So, so I immediately started to always ask my personal physician. [00:28:00] When I did my fasting blood sugar levels. I want them to see my insulin levels because if my insulin levels are very low and my blood sugar levels are very low, then I'm I'm optimized.

[00:28:10] My body is running well. It's not like as though my pancreas is pushing out crazy amounts of insulin to achieve that number. Then when the discussion of vitamin D started to come into play. I looked at vitamin D as you're talking about, primarily as a, uh, a regulator of, of bone mineral, calcium plasma levels of calcium and so on.

[00:28:32] And I thought, well, what else plays a role in calcium? The parathyroid? So I started to think to myself, we, you know, w epidemiology comes up with these ranges, but epidemiology takes into account sick people. They're in that population and we don't want to be where sick people are. We want to be where healthy people are.

[00:28:51] And so I thought, gee, this is, these are broad ranges, you know, 20, uh, what does it, Pico grams, uh, how do they measure D [00:29:00] NanoGrip? Yeah, T T to 90. It's like, wow. That's a really big place to be. If you're an neuro normal person, surely there has to be a way. To say, well, uh, Dr. Christakos is her, her, her, her best levels of here call yours a here.

[00:29:16] And I started, started thinking why don't doctors check, not just for 25 OHD but. Parathyroid hormone. So theory, my theory would be supplement, supplement supplement until parathyroid hormone stops being produced or is being produced minimally and stop there because you're getting enough D so the parathyroid doesn't have to catch up and make up for what the D is not doing.

[00:29:41] Okay. Now, what do you think.

[00:29:44] Dr Sylvia. Christakos: [00:29:44] Well, I think you, I think that's, if you're good, you're good, you know, what's going on? Um, so, um, I think that I w that why they measure 25 hydroxy, it's the most stable metabolite. That'll [00:30:00] give you an index of what your vitamin D levels are and together with levels of calcium, uh, should give you an idea.

[00:30:09] Now the PTH I think is really important. And I think that if you suspect a problem and someone keeps coming up deficient. I think PTH is a warranted. I wouldn't want to have everybody to get PTH and vitamin D, but I think, uh, you're absolutely correct that if you suspect a problem measure PTH, and I think the endocrinologists would definitely agree with you.

[00:30:36] Carl Lanore: [00:30:36] So, uh, Sean Bean had one other question and it's about obesity. And since obesity is a big problem in our population, faces, have you seen obese people requiring higher levels, 10,000, 20,000? Our use to obtain optimal levels? Some theory is that the body represents, uh, yeah, it represents body fat as another organ requiring vitamin D or more vitamins.

[00:31:04] [00:31:00] Dr Sylvia. Christakos: [00:31:04] Hi. So, uh, I think, you know, we have to be careful, uh, in so far as all right. So what about obesity? And, um, I think that the amount of vitamin D can be regulated according to, uh, body weight. Some endocrinologists have suggested that I think that 10 to 20,000 units a day. Is, uh, too high that I think that, um, supplements of vitamin D are safe, uh, and tell 10,000 units a day.

[00:31:37] And then after that, um, it's no guarantee we, we don't want to get into the range of toxicity. And I, I think this is important. You can buy online, uh, pills that are 50,000 units and clinicians often. Give those for, you know, once a week for four weeks, and then [00:32:00] you taper down. There have been people who ordered that online.

[00:32:04] And there was an abstract at the endocrine society meetings some years ago where a person ordered the 50,000 unit pill and took it every day. For a couple of months and almost died. And why did they almost die? And that's because of the, uh, kidney, uh, calcification. And so, uh, they. Uh, almost died because of that sort of, uh, toxicity in the kidney.

[00:32:32] So, and hypercalcemia. So bottom line is, um, there are endocrinologists who would indeed suggest that the amount of vitamin D should be per body weight. And right now we say for a routine for everybody, who's not sick and, but it's not in the sun and doesn't get enough vitamin D 1000 to 2000 units a day.

[00:32:56] Uh, sometimes people will say, if you have some [00:33:00] disease process, you know, vitamin D has, um, Uh, at least in mouse models, multiple effects, uh, that, uh, affect, uh, colon cancer and breast cancer, uh, and, um, in autoimmune diseases, such as multiple sclerosis and inflammatory bowel disease, it inhibits inflammatory cytokines, at least in mouse models.

[00:33:23] So they say maybe for those people wouldn't hurt. If they got caught. 4,000 units a day, but I think, um, even for obese people, um, uh, 10 or 20,000 units a day is, is too much.

[00:33:37] Carl Lanore: [00:33:37] Okay. So, so now let's, let's circle back and I want to do this just for clarification. And I understand, I know the answer already, but I wanna, I want you to, to explain it.

[00:33:48] So earlier we talked about being in the sun for 10 to 15 minutes and producing 10,000. I use a vitamin D and people would say, but doctor, I go to Mexico and I lay in the sun for five, six hours a day. My body is producing [00:34:00] hundreds of thousands of IUs of vitamin D, but it's not because the longer you're in the sun, the more of it, it breaks down before it gets delivered.

[00:34:07] Right.

[00:34:08] Dr Sylvia. Christakos: [00:34:08] Yeah, there are the sun. Doesn't produce a toxic levels of vitamin D oral administration. You can take too much to kill yourself, but, um, in so far as the toxicity in the kidney and kidney stones, if you're taking like, Uh, these massive amounts every day in hypercalcemia, but you're absolutely correct.

[00:34:28] The with the sun is not toxic.

[00:34:31] Carl Lanore: [00:34:31] And, and the reason we even know that vitamin D could kill you is because, uh, early research, I want to say it was done by Dr. Stefansson on the Inuits. They knew not to eat. They knew to peel the sheath. Of the polar bear liver off before eating it because it had so much vitamin D in it that when they ate the sheet that killed them in a couple of days, they were dead.

[00:34:55] And so we knew that wow, vitamin D is harmful. If you get too much, [00:35:00] Tommy D Hey, look at that. Tommy vitamin D Tommy D says, would K2 somewhat reduce the risk of calcification in which he's talking about higher doses of oral vitamin D.

[00:35:14] Dr Sylvia. Christakos: [00:35:14] Uh,

[00:35:16] Carl Lanore: [00:35:16] there's a lot. There's a lot of vitamin D supplements out there that come in five and 10,000 units. And they con they include some of the K2 because it said that the K2 keeps it from going into tissue and causing tissue calcification.

[00:35:30] Dr Sylvia. Christakos: [00:35:30] So what is the K2?

[00:35:32] Carl Lanore: [00:35:32] K2 is a vitamin K vitamin K two. There's three different forms.

[00:35:37] Yes. Yes.

[00:35:39] Dr Sylvia. Christakos: [00:35:39] And so, um,

[00:35:40] Carl Lanore: [00:35:40] the supplement companies now include in larger dose vitamin D. They include vitamin K2 because there's research out there. That was actually I think, done by the vitamin D um, there's an organization out of California. That's kind of the vitamin D commission. That was good. Uh, you know, [00:36:00] they, they say, well, if you take K2 with high doses, you're, you're safe.

[00:36:04] You won't get the tissue calcium calcification.

[00:36:07] Dr Sylvia. Christakos: [00:36:07] I don't believe that. Okay. So, um, and with, um, blood clotting, it's a blood clotting mechanism. That's mediated by calcium. So what vitamin K does, uh, it adds, uh, Uh, gamma carboxy glutamate, uh, to various, uh, uh, uh, clotting factors, blood clotting factors, and that gives them a negative charge so that they can go to the site of injury.

[00:36:39] Where the plasma membrane is okay. Where there's calcium in the plasma membrane. Right? So the, now these clotting factors can, can go to the site because they have a negative charge and they attach to calcium, but that's their link to calcium is in the blood clotting mechanism of action. [00:37:00] Not that vitamin K is going to, uh, affect CA uh, reduce the risk of calcification in my opinion.

[00:37:09] Carl Lanore: [00:37:09] Right, right. Interesting. Very, very interesting. So, um, getting back to the study at hand, what w w what should physicians who are gastroenterologists that are ordering their patients to have specific types of surgeries, and a lot of these surgeries are necessary. They're not, they're not like elective. You, when somebody says to you, you have an obstruction, we have to remove a portion of your intestines so you can stay alive.

[00:37:35] What, what, what, what should those doctors be thinking about moving forward to counsel their patients, to see another physician and make sure that they have a lot of, they're not developing malabsorption of, of D or other things.

[00:37:50] Dr Sylvia. Christakos: [00:37:50] Yeah, I think, uh, that's with this research that alerts you to the fact, you know, are we taking out the distal intestine?

[00:37:59] How [00:38:00] is that affecting the bone? Uh, do we need to consider, so certainly if some of these patients have the proximal intestine, we need to consider their calcium absorption because we are affecting the colon and maybe they hadn't thought about that before.

[00:38:16] Carl Lanore: [00:38:16] Right. Yeah. Especially since you said previous research made the colon seem optional, like all it has nothing to do with vitamin D absorption at all.

[00:38:24] So we don't have anything to worry about. We're going to take our last commercial break. When we come back, I want to talk about vitamin D specifically in the context. Of today's world. We hear, I had a brilliant scientists from Israel. Come on the show and talk about 25 hydroxy levels and susceptibility to getting viruses.

[00:38:42] There's research that we talked about on this show, uh, earlier in the year, that shows that vitamin D three and its subsequent elevation in 25 hydroxy levels has the ability to. Uh, kind of turnoff retroviruses ability to replicate. And I want to just find out if [00:39:00] you are aware of any of that research and what your opinion of it is.

[00:39:02] That's all. So stay tuned. We'll be right back with more super radio.

[00:39:15] welcome back. Vitamin D is an exciting vitamin. It's actually a hormone, right? It's not, it's not really a,

[00:39:22] Dr Sylvia. Christakos: [00:39:22] well, the act of form X, uh, is analogously to any hormone binds to a nuclear receptor and affects transcription of various target genes, just like, uh, any hormone.

[00:39:35] Carl Lanore: [00:39:35] And that's, it's very exciting. And maybe, maybe we put a little bit too much on the shoulders of vitamin D and we think that it has all, you know, some pleiotropic effects and it'll cure everything and it'll fix everything.

[00:39:45] However, Uh, at the onset of the year with the current pandemic, um, lots of interesting research. I actually wrote a blog in February after citing many articles that I [00:40:00] sourced that showed that, uh, and D and the sun, you know, it's, you know, we talk about vitamin D like, it's this thing, and we forget that it's actually this, uh, Artificial replacement for the sun, you know, and that's really what it comes down to.

[00:40:14] We get it on a gut. It does work differently, but it works the same. In some cases, obviously the sun also activates another, uh, hormonal process called the melanocortin system, which I think a lot of times actually is the reason for some of the things attributed to vitamin D. But that's another discussion entirely, but the, the, the research that I found back then, Showed that in a SARS and MERS, and even in HIV, uh, high levels of 25 hydroxy, uh, stopped, uh, retroviruses from accessing reverse transcriptase and reproducing in rapid quantities and the viral load wasn't nearly as high as it was expected.

[00:40:58] What do you think about that? [00:41:00] Does vitamin D really have that strong of a potential effect?

[00:41:04] Dr Sylvia. Christakos: [00:41:04] So, uh, we know about vitamin D affects the immune system and we know that inhibits inflammatory cytokines, they role a vitamin D in viral infections is controversial. Correct. Oh, some people say yes, some people say no, and you couldn't find literature on both sides for autoimmune diseases.

[00:41:27] Everybody says, at least in the mouse models. And, um, yes, it definitely inhibits these various inflammatory cytokines. So, um, and I think, uh, what'd you have mentioned, does it do everything? What we learned from the mouse models. Is that it, you know, it's so compelling. If you look at these mice, I mean, we did research in multiple sclerosis and the mice weren't walking right there.

[00:41:55] They're uh, EAE model, and then you give them one 25 and then they start [00:42:00] walking. So, and then, uh, there were. I collaborated with the younger investigator on a new mouse model of inflammatory bowel disease. And you give them vitamin D and there's no inflammatory bowel disease. So does vitamin D do that in humans?

[00:42:16] We have no, uh, uh, We don't have enough clinical trials to say that, but the mice studies do indicate that there are various pathways that vitamin D affects that will result in these changes in the mice. And since so many genes are analogous and mice and humans, I think the importance of all of this vitamin D pleiotropic actions.

[00:42:42] Is that we can identify, uh, various, uh, new targets for treatment through the pathways. Maybe vitamin D won't do that in humans. We, we don't know, um, definitively right. And, uh, but there is compelling evidence, uh, [00:43:00] uh, in multiple sclerosis that if people were deficient from when they were young, and this was a, a very large study.

[00:43:08] Uh, done, uh, that they, they were more susceptible to multiple sclerosis when they were older. So, but there are few definitive clinical studies. I think the pathways are really important. And that, to your question about viruses, that's the most. On defined area.

[00:43:28] Carl Lanore: [00:43:28] Right? So

[00:43:30] Dr Sylvia. Christakos: [00:43:30] with the COVID-19, you know, what's really interesting is they have paper after paper in this past year on clinical studies that the patients.

[00:43:41] So who had COVID-19 it was correlated to vitamin D deficiency. What we don't have is what our mechanisms, uh, do we have Mel, you know, and we're going to collaborate here. I'm in, um, the international central for public health is here in Newark and I'm [00:44:00] collaborating with, um,  who is an immunologist. And we are going to look in various mouse models to determine.

[00:44:09] It's there an effect of vitamin D I mean, there's one step to show a deficiency in

[00:44:16] patients,

[00:44:17] Carl Lanore: [00:44:17] susceptibility, right. Deficiency and susceptibility. Aren't they're corollary. They're not causative, obviously. Exactly.

[00:44:24] Dr Sylvia. Christakos: [00:44:24] Yeah. So, um, I think that's important. There's so, you know, and then I see paper after paper, it's just, somebody has got to do the mechanism.

[00:44:32] So, um, had meany and I will at least, uh, Try to address this

[00:44:37] Carl Lanore: [00:44:37] one, one of the fascinating down, I mean, there's so many fascinating downstream tablets, you know, when you start going further away from just 25, OHD a one 25. And one of them is a peptide. I did a show about this peptide last year. It's called LL three seven.

[00:44:54] It's a human capital citizen. And it's a antiviral antifungal, anti [00:45:00] microbial. It's just this magic,

[00:45:03] Dr Sylvia. Christakos: [00:45:03] right? Yeah. Talking about cathedral side. So we published a paper on that about a year ago. And it's, it's very important what you're saying. It's an antibacterial compound. So, um, vitamin D does indeed not only does it, if you're a good, you know, a lot of this, so vitamin D uh, not for me, inhibits inflammatory cytokines, but also, uh, affects the innate immune system where it induces this LL 37 to fellow seitan, which is an antibacterial compound.

[00:45:34] So, um, Uh, for example, you know, they thought there was a paper in science that said, Oh, that's how vitamin D is good for TB. Right. Because it alongside, uh, is induced in macrophages and that kills the, um, uh, TB bacteria. Okay. Uh, then pad me and I wrote a grant and did a [00:46:00] study where nobody had looked in the most, you're doing this and macrophages.

[00:46:03] Right. So, um, and what we found, that's why we have to be very cautious. Is that one 25 in her mouse model, uh, made it to be worse. Oh, so

[00:46:19] Carl Lanore: [00:46:19] I have some theory. I have some theories.

[00:46:21] Dr Sylvia. Christakos: [00:46:21] All right. So you need inflammatory cytokines to, to fight the bacteria. Right. Right, right. And there's antibacterial compounds. So it's a two-edged sword.

[00:46:31] Right. So, uh, if you're killing the inflammatory cytokines that need to fight, uh, this, um, TB, uh, versus the , uh, Uh, my, um, the Capella Sidon, which is the antibacterial compound, that's increased. The other one is decreased. Well, it appeared in the, at least in that mouse model that, um, the cytokines were important.

[00:46:58] And so we inhibited them. [00:47:00] So even though, and it was a mouse model, I must say that, uh, Catholicized is only instruments. So the mice, so we. I mean to follow up on that study would take the mice, whether that were humanized that you put in the  gene with they, and we did do a pilot on those mice and it didn't make much of a difference.

[00:47:27] They still got worse. So which, which, which part of that sword is going to predominate. And at least in that mouse model, we needed the cytokines to fight.

[00:47:39] Carl Lanore: [00:47:39] So, and, and it's, it's not just that. I think it, I think there's, I, you point, you know, what part of the heart, the hard part of all of this is we just want to look at this one thing, you know, we, we just, and, and the body is so complex.

[00:47:55] It's almost insulting to think that just like you said, you know, if we get rid of the, uh, [00:48:00] these bad, excuse me, pathogens, everything will be fine, but. Inflammation plays a very strong role, negative and positive. We know this right, uh, oxidation. We know that the in cancer, uh, say for instance, IGF one has a pull, a push pull effect on cancer.

[00:48:19] It not only stimulates growth, but it's a powerful reducer of ROS and ROS kills tumor cells if left to do it on its own. So there's, it's, it's so complex, but the other thing that adds complexity to this whole discussion. And I'm going to tell you something. I hope you don't lose respect for you, but I use

[00:48:38] I inject it, uh, once, once every couple of months, once every couple months. Yeah. Once. Cause I'm getting older. I'm 62 years old, you know? Um, my immune system, isn't what it used to be. And I take a hundred, a hundred micrograms a day for 30 days and I take a couple months off and that's it. And I got to tell you, I've noticed a lot of changes, uh, from.

[00:48:59] I [00:49:00] used to have this fungus that used to change the pigment in my skin. It's all gone. And then when I don't use it for a long time, it starts to come back again. So it's still there. But the addition of the LLT seven, the exogenous ELA three seven is keeping it under control. But, but the other thing that we're learning now because of the wonderful new frontier of the microbes, biome is not all microbes are bad.

[00:49:22] So an  is M and D it's indiscriminate. It doesn't just go, Oh, you're a bad microbe. I'm going to get rid of you and get it thins, the herd all the way around. So it could even have the effect that some of the microbes it's getting rid of in, in the road and models are actually official microbes. So anyway, fascinating discussion.

[00:49:44] I love this kind of stuff, and I love vitamin D uh, I hope that you will come back and talk more about your next research. Okie

[00:49:52] Dr Sylvia. Christakos: [00:49:52] doke. Okay.

[00:49:53] Carl Lanore: [00:49:53] Thank you for being here today,

[00:49:55] Dr Sylvia. Christakos: [00:49:55] right? Thank you. It was

[00:49:57] Carl Lanore: [00:49:57] fun. Right? So we are [00:50:00] supposed to have, uh, an Olympian on the show and his name is Jared ward and he, uh, is a distance runner and he was in the 2016 Olympia, uh, uh, uh, as a runner, not, not the bodybuilding competition in Olympia, but, uh, he has not connected yet.

[00:50:21] And I'm trying to text with him now. So here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to take, um, uh, one last commercial break and see if I can get Jared on the phone and get him to connect for the next interview. So stay tuned. You're watching supreme-a radio. We'll be right back. Let's say two.

[00:50:43] Here he is. That's great. You were listening to the superhuman channel. We're ripped and we're ready.

[00:50:54] Welcome back to super yum radio. We are pleased to be joined by Jared [00:51:00] ward. How are you doing jarred?

[00:51:01] Jared Ward: [00:51:01] Hey, I'm just living the train, Carl, how are you?

[00:51:04] Carl Lanore: [00:51:04] I know you are. And, and, and we got to talk about who you are first, before we start talking about something that both of you, you and I are really crazy about right now, which is the media or you were an Olympic distance runner, right?

[00:51:17] Jared Ward: [00:51:17] That's right. Yeah. I ran the marathon in 2016.

[00:51:21] Carl Lanore: [00:51:21] Are you still running now? Do you still run?

[00:51:24] Jared Ward: [00:51:24] Yes. Yeah. Too much. In fact that really. Yeah. So I, in fact, I have a race this Sunday, I'm racing, uh, in Arizona and it's kind of one of those elite only races, uh, uh, uh, D uh, COVID adapted races and, and I'm pretty excited.

[00:51:40] Carl Lanore: [00:51:40] What is, COVID adapted me. You're not running with a face mask, right?

[00:51:44] Jared Ward: [00:51:44] No masks, but I have to have a number of negative tests before the race. We're kind of quarantined for the days leading up to the race. And then it's an elite only field with no spectators. Uh, so it's just, you know, think of the NBA bubble [00:52:00] applied to marathon running.

[00:52:02] Carl Lanore: [00:52:02] Are you excited?

[00:52:04] Dr Sylvia. Christakos: [00:52:04] Super

[00:52:04] Jared Ward: [00:52:04] excited, you know, in any, you know, it, if, uh, if COVID hasn't done anything else for me as a professional athlete, it's made me grateful for the opportunities that I've had every other year and taken for granted. And so just to have a race is a huge one.

[00:52:18] Carl Lanore: [00:52:18] Yeah. You're chomping at the bit.

[00:52:20] How old is he now? How old are you now? Jared? 32. Okay. What is the, what is the, uh, career expectancy of a long distance runner? Like you.

[00:52:29] Jared Ward: [00:52:29] Well, it depends on how long you can go and tell your legs and your knees and all those joints stopped working. Uh, so we, you know, we have a better certainly than, you know, gymnast's or, or sprinters or things like that because your, your cardiovascular system can just, I, I actually really believe that they can just keep getting better forever, but eventually your body just can't quite keep up with the pounding.

[00:52:52] So, you know, if I can last for another. Five or six years, that'd be pretty happy. You know, I think, I think peaks probably [00:53:00] into the mid thirties, as long as you stay healthy

[00:53:03] Carl Lanore: [00:53:03] now, w what part of the country do you live in? I live in

[00:53:05] Jared Ward: [00:53:05] Utah.

[00:53:06] Carl Lanore: [00:53:06] Oh, really? So, uh, do you ever get up to a Mount Zion national park at all?

[00:53:11] Jared Ward: [00:53:11] Uh, isn't that place beautiful?

[00:53:13] Carl Lanore: [00:53:13] Yes. I lived in Vegas eight years when I was in my twenties and I used to go to Mount Zion to go camping. And, uh, that once you get in there it's you don't want to leave. It's just beautiful. It's amazing.

[00:53:27] Jared Ward: [00:53:27] No, yeah. I think some of those, uh, Southeastern national parks in Utah are something else, you know, Moab and in the Capitol reef and, uh, you know, and then down into the grand Canyon.

[00:53:40] And then, and then Zion, I mean, I don't know. I dunno what happened in that area when God was creating the world, but he, uh, he set some pretty things in motion.

[00:53:49] Carl Lanore: [00:53:49] Beautiful. Excuse me. So obviously you have some nagging injuries at this point in your life. Huh?

[00:53:58] Jared Ward: [00:53:58] Always, always [00:54:00] something.

[00:54:01] Carl Lanore: [00:54:01] And there's this neat little thing and it's it's it's I carry it around the house with me, in fact.

[00:54:07] It's plugged in right now and I forgot to take it with me, but it's called the meteor and it, and it kind of looks and feels like a smaller version of the ball that we used to use to play Dodge ball, but it just fits right in the Palm of your hand, so nicely, but it's got three different vibration settings and heat and you can fit this thing everywhere.

[00:54:32] You know, I see a lot of these, um, Basically, they kind of remind me of jigsaws with rubber balls on the end. I see a lot of them, you know, people are pounding themselves out with it. I don't think that's good. I actually think that even some massages are injurous they actually hurt you. And like you, you hurt for days and people want to tell you that's good.

[00:54:53] No, that's not good. If you did an exercise that made you feel like that you wouldn't do it again. But people keep going back and getting hurt. But [00:55:00] this ball, the media is the most, it's the only one I've ever used. And I use it all the time and I use it so many different ways. It's ridiculous. You use it too, don't you?

[00:55:11] Jared Ward: [00:55:11] Yeah. Yeah. I use it every day.

[00:55:13] Carl Lanore: [00:55:13] How do you use it then? I'll tell you how I use mine.

[00:55:16] Jared Ward: [00:55:16] Well, I'm excited to hear that. I, uh, you got me on the edge of my seat now.

[00:55:20] Carl Lanore: [00:55:20] Well, it's nothing that great, but it's just, it's, it's going to be funny when I tell you,

[00:55:24] Jared Ward: [00:55:24] um, no, you know, so as a runner, I feel like one of the, one of the tightest places that I get is my upper glutes and my external rotators kind of right there in your seat.

[00:55:37] And as I get those looser. And even, even into the front, when you get into like hip flexor and the top of your quadricep muscle there, um, if I can get that area loose, everything running seems to feel a little bit better. So I spend a lot of time on my glutes. Just, uh, just kind of rolling out massages. On that vibrating heating ball in the mornings before I run.

[00:55:58] But I also love it for [00:56:00] plantar fasciitis riding my right, my arches. So I, you know, and I, I wouldn't say I suffer from plantar flesh fasciitis, but anyone who runs is going to get. You know, achy, sore arches every once in a while and, and getting that right under my foot I've found is, is incredible for relieving that specific spot.

[00:56:19] Carl Lanore: [00:56:19] And it's the perfect size, you know, um, I had a guy on a gal on the show many years ago who talked about using a tennis ball. Sure, but it doesn't work for me. I'm a big guy and can get in that tennis ball right. Where I want it. And then, you know, kind of rubbing on it. And I kind of feel like a big bear trying to scratch my back with a little, little branch or something, but this is it's substantial.

[00:56:42] The ball is substantial. I feel so bad. I didn't bring it with me, but like I said, I plugged it in this morning and I just left it there. Well,

[00:56:49] Jared Ward: [00:56:49] yeah, it's like a softball size, you know,

[00:56:51] Carl Lanore: [00:56:51] a little bit, a little bit bigger. You had a softball just perfect, but I can fit that. I do that. I do the arches for my feet.

[00:56:58] Cause I've had some problems with my [00:57:00] feet. I had a surgery on the left foot. Um, I do that, but the thing that I love the most with it is I lay down in bed and put it right on my neck and then just let my head stretch out and let my neck stretch out over it. Oh my God. And that's how I discovered one of the things I love to do with it that I bet nobody's using it for.

[00:57:18] You put it on the lowest vibrating setting and you start in the middle of your head and you roll it forward and you roll it back and then you roll it this way. Transcranial vibration therapy. It's amazing. Like if you, if you feel that funk in the afternoon, three o'clock and you think it, I don't want to have coffee cause I won't sleep tonight.

[00:57:35] Turn the ball on, roll it around your head a little while. Watch what happens. You're wide awake. You feel energized. You feel like, okay, now I'm ready to go. Now, this thing is amazing for that.

[00:57:44] Jared Ward: [00:57:44] You know, that's interesting you say that because you know, one. You know, from an, from an athlete perspective and just getting some stimulation vibration that helps your rollout feel a little bit better.

[00:57:55] Um, you know, there's, there's a whole range of vibrations that you can use to satisfy that. [00:58:00] But, but our, uh, our engineer and CEO, John odor Pirie really developed this ball with the research on vibration amplitudes and frequencies that, that. Resonate with the vagus nerve and your central nervous system.

[00:58:14] And so it's interesting that you say, you know, it works well on your head. It vibrates it, the frequencies that are most conducive to the human body, for communicating with our nerves and it, and it was built

[00:58:25] Carl Lanore: [00:58:25] for that. So I love doing that. And. I discovered it one night when I was laying in bed with it and it kind of started to creep up and it felt good.

[00:58:35] It was that like, I like, my face felt like it was vibrating, but it felt good. It didn't feel scary. You can't do that with one of those punching boxing gloves on a handle. Like he just can't do that. And the other thing I like about it is the heat. I have some lumbar spine issues. And so again, I'll lay down in bed and I'll push it underneath my lumbar spine.

[00:58:59] I'll kind of roll a [00:59:00] little bit till it's right in the right spot. And the heat kicks in and it feels good. And I can actually feel a difference in the way I get out of bed and walk. After I do that, that's the telltale sign for me. If I get out of bed and walk after that, I just feel like my legs work better.

[00:59:15] It's because it's separating the, I have some compression in L four L five and S one. Actually bad compression and it just kind of loosens it back up. And I can tell that my nerves going into my legs are unintended any longer up in that area and they feel good. But it's the date? The thing about this is that you could use it anywhere.

[00:59:36] You could take it in your car, you could take it to work. You could use it at home. It doesn't look goofy like that. Sledgehammer on a, on a, on a jigsaw. I mean, it's actually, and it's you, you, you find yourself, I literally carry it from room to room. Elisa says to me, you know, why don't you put it down? And I say, no.

[00:59:55] Cause I think when I get over there, I want to, since I'm working, I'm going to put it underneath my feet and I'm going [01:00:00] to roll it out on the, on my arches. Cause I do the same thing you do. It's just fantastic. This is a must have product. If you are a trainer, a trainee. Or you're just getting older and you don't like the way your body is acting anymore.

[01:00:15] This is a fantastic product and we have a fantastic offer right now. Right now, if you go to S H R network.biz/media, or use the code SHR 15, you'll get 15% off. Plus, if you order two more, you get free shipping. And this is going to make a great Christmas gift for anybody. Who's fast enough to pull the trigger, because this is something that whoever you buy it for will think of you every day, because they will use it every day.

[01:00:48] And by the way, one of the things I hate about everything I have today is you got to charge things all the time. I find I only have to charge us once every three or four days. That's it. So [01:01:00] beautiful product. Fantastic. Yeah,

[01:01:02] Jared Ward: [01:01:02] the engineering was really well thought out on this. When you get, when you get products developed by engineers, as opposed to business salesmen, you get to, you get stuff that has a lot of those.

[01:01:12] A lot of those things thought out.

[01:01:14] Carl Lanore: [01:01:14] I just saw a blonde angel walk by

[01:01:20] But, uh, the other thing I wanted to mention is the high speed setting. That is just amazing. That is something that I use on my lumbar spine. That high speed setting you feel that that is, it's not like it's really activating all of the, um, uh, muscle fibers that it's touching. It's just the amazing, well,

[01:01:42] Jared Ward: [01:01:42] I'm so glad to hear that, uh, that feedback, you know, it really was developed.

[01:01:46] For athletes and by athletes, some, you know, I, I partnered with these, these two founders early, the other founder besides Johno is a guy named shack Walker. And Shaq was a professional runner as well. And so it was built with athletes in [01:02:00] mind. But what we found is that it really. Um, it really has a targeted audience of anyone that suffers from any type of pain.

[01:02:07] And, um, and the, the product has really filled that niche. And we've received some of the most positive feedback from people in the chronic pain category.

[01:02:18] Carl Lanore: [01:02:18] Sure. Because it's immediate, the pain, the pain goes away immediately when you use it, it's like it's gone and somebody will say well, but then it comes back two hours later.

[01:02:28] So. So what, what's your, so you're telling me it's better not to have interrupted pain, just have it all day long instead of having, having

[01:02:36] Jared Ward: [01:02:36] control, you know, can I, and I, and I do think that there's some things we can do to, to work on muscle tissues and things to, to lengthen tissues and help relieve pain and things like that, that it can, that it can work with.

[01:02:49] But yeah, think of it like your Tylenol or ibuprofen, you know, if you're, if you're, if you, if you want to get off the ibuprofen. Well, try rolling out on the meteor.

[01:02:57] Carl Lanore: [01:02:57] Yes. So you, how many children do you have?

[01:03:00] [01:03:00] Jared Ward: [01:03:00] We have a four and one on the way.

[01:03:03] Carl Lanore: [01:03:03] Any of them runners

[01:03:05] Jared Ward: [01:03:05] we'll see, the oldest is eight and a few of them, like it.

[01:03:09] They're all active.

[01:03:10] Carl Lanore: [01:03:10] Good for you. That's wonderful. Wonderful. Well, I'm excited about this product. I'm excited about the fact that you guys are sponsors on the show. And like I say, all the time we bring you free information. Like the interview we just did about vitamin D and the colon. Uh, we ask that you always patronize the sponsors and we vet our sponsors to make sure that the products that they have.

[01:03:34] Uh, worth your dollars and I'm telling you this product is worth your dollars. Don't be without it. I guarantee you'll love it and get a couple for Christmas. The holidays are here. Give one to your wife, give one to your partner, give one to your boss. Maybe he'll stop breaking your chops. Go to SHR network.biz/media.

[01:03:54] Or use the code SHR 15. Start using it today. You'll thank me tomorrow. I promise. [01:04:00] Listen, I want to thank you. That's you're not Sylvia. I want to thank you, Jerry. That was my previous guest. Sorry about that. Uh, I want to thank you for making the interview today too.

[01:04:08] Jared Ward: [01:04:08] Hey, I'm happy to this. Uh, this was fun and that in the 15% discount really is a pretty good buy on the media.

[01:04:15] These guys, they don't discount it very often. And so, so if, uh, if it's something you're on the fence on take advantage of this discount through the radio,

[01:04:23] Carl Lanore: [01:04:23] it's not terribly expensive, first of all. And then to get a 15% discount on it in order to and get free shipping so that there's this money back in your pocket, right there.

[01:04:32] So there you go. Thanks for being here, brother. Hey, Hey, who's that? Who's that? Who's that? Who's that? Wait, wait, wait. Hi. Hi. Oh, she's adorable. Okay. See you guys later. Thanks Jared. Bye bye. All right, so that's it for today now tomorrow we have a really good show. Uh, Joel green is going to be joining us tomorrow and we're going to talk about the intersect of faith and science.

[01:04:56] And many of us are people of faith. Uh, and we are people of [01:05:00] science and some people struggle with that, but you don't have to struggle with it. There is an intersect with faith and science work together, and nobody knows it better than Joel green. And so we're going to be talking about that tomorrow.

[01:05:11] Don't miss that show and don't forget, Friday is the 15 year anniversary of this podcast. And we're going to have a great show, lots of fun. And if you want to be immortalized in that podcast, you just have to do one of two things. Either email This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.. Just include your name and the year you started listening.

[01:05:33] Uh, or if you feel bold and you want to actually have your face in this podcast, just make a brief video with your iPhone or Android phone. Say, Hey, Carl. Happy 50th anniversary, keep rocking. Something like that. Real simple 10 seconds, five seconds. Doesn't have to be anything elaborate and then upload it to SHR network.biz/your story.

[01:05:57] And you will be in the 15 year anniversary [01:06:00] podcast episode forever. So that's it. I see everybody tomorrow with more super human radio. And thank you for being here today. .