[00:00:00] Carl Lanore: [00:00:00] Still getting this new platform worked out, trying to control the cameras properly. Welcome back. It's a new year. It's a new decade. This is the first live show of 2020 today is January six 2020 for those of you listening to this show a hundred years from now and going, wow, these, these people really knew what they were talking about when it came to health, longevity, fitness, and everything around that.

[00:00:25] It's going to be a great year. And of course, we're going to start the year off with a, a fantastic discussion. Uh, you, you know, if you've been listening to the show show show turned 14 years old in November of last year, and if you've been listening to the show about seven or eight years ago, I started talking about Metformin and I actually started taking Metformin back then.

[00:00:45] I had dr Andrew write me a prescription for it. And, uh, and, and I didn't like it. It, it upset my stomach. I didn't feel good. And as the research evolved, [00:01:00] and, uh, I started to read more papers about it, I thought, you know, there's a lot of things about this Metformin that really aren't good. And. I stepped out and started talking bad about Metformin at least six years ago, and I had everybody, every time I talk bad about him, I mean, there was so many people who jumped all over me.

[00:01:21] Metformin is like a religion. The people who believe that it's going to make them live forever, they don't want to hear anything contrary to their own thought process. And, um. But research kept coming out about M, Tor , uh, about changes in the microbiome that may not be favorable. Lots of people start taking Metformin.

[00:01:44] They immediately get bad diarrhea. That should be a sign. If you went out to a restaurant and ate a meal and you went home and you spent the rest of the night and your bathroom crapping, you wouldn't go, I can't wait back. Wait to go back to that restaurant and have another meal. If you listen to your body, your body's going, Oh, no, [00:02:00] no.

[00:02:00] This is not what we want. But the biggest problem about Metformin, even though it's been around for like what, 50 years? I think the biggest problem with it has been almost exclusively research on a sick population. A population that the potential harmful effects of Metformin don't outweigh the disease.

[00:02:26] That they are treating so sure. Those people go, Oh yeah, it's a, it's, it's a push. Yeah. You know, I'll, I'll die slower by taking Metformin, but it's probably not the greatest thing in the world for me. And, and, and when I started coming out with that kind of an attitude, people kept telling me I was wrong.

[00:02:42] Good people I respect, you know, a Jim Brown, uh, Jay Campbell, a lot of them. I mean, Oh man. Metformin. It's the stuff, and I won't take it. And I've been clear about why I won't take it. And so somebody said to me, why am I having guests on today to talk [00:03:00] about the potential negatives of Metformin? Why don't I have somebody who come to come on and talk about the benefits of Metformin?

[00:03:06] I said, I did that. Eight years ago, nine years ago. I did that already, but you got to follow the science and the science isn't all that it's a whacked up to be. So let's bring my guests on, see if I could do this fluidly here. Hold on. Oh man, I'm getting good. One more. Here we go. Oh, there we go. Oh, okay.

[00:03:26] Look at it. I'm in the middle, eh, so, and I'll, I'll arrange this differently later. So on my, on my left. Uh, is, uh, I'm sorry, is, is Jared Boynton? And on my right is, is Tane Clark. How are you guys doing? So, um, I reached out to you Jared, right? I found this article. I was like, Oh man, this is such great stuff.

[00:03:50] And I communicated with you says, yeah, but the guy who really knows this stuff inside and out is, is Tane. So that's why all three of us are on the show today to talk about this. [00:04:00] So let's start with Tane for a second. So you, your journey actually started because you had some gut problems, right?

[00:04:07] Taeian Clark: [00:04:07] Oh yeah.

[00:04:08] Back when I started into, um, bodybuilding around 16, or, you know, just wanting to lift weights, um, yeah. I've got problems can ever eat properly. And then that kind of led me on to, um, the health aspects. So it was like, why, what's wrong with me? Right? There's gotta be something more to this. And, um, through that, you know, journey.

[00:04:27] Going through, whether it's bacteria, um, bacteria, vitamins, minerals, missing. That's just kinda what, you know, led me into all my research today. I just, you know, kind of slowly drifted away from the bodybuilding and strictly into that, into the health. But the health care, you know, also changed. It changed your body and getting like, you know, Metformin, you know, bodybuilders using Metformin and, you know, just a big, vicious circle of.

[00:04:48] What's wrong, right. We're talking bodybuilding and health as well.

[00:04:52] Carl Lanore: [00:04:52] Right. Jared, how about you? How do, how, where is your entry point to physical culture? How does it come about?

[00:04:57] Jared Boynton: [00:04:57] Yeah. Um, well, I'm going to get bodybuilding for [00:05:00] a number of years, but I think anybody who takes the path down to the serious health and wellness and holistic CISM and longevity path has had some kind of a health scare, especially in bodybuilding.

[00:05:11] It's usually a health scare that's related to something that bodybuilding has taught them. That is not what they thought was true. And so, so for me, the big thing that led me down the path and actually led me to a  and all the other, um, I guess alternative, uh, kind of bodybuilding discussion. Um, I was working with a coach, I'm not gonna mention any names, but I was working with a coach, uh, three and a half years ago, um, who.

[00:05:41] Uh, ed told me to utilize growth hormone, and, uh, it led me into a, some extreme catabolism, like put me in the hospital catabolism. Uh, and I realized that, okay, so maybe I don't have the whole picture here, you know. Um, and so that's, that's what led me to Tay. And that's,

[00:05:59] Carl Lanore: [00:05:59] you know, [00:06:00] bodybuilding is guilty of the same.

[00:06:01] The thing that we could talk about, the medical orthodoxy, one size fits all right? People get a copy of a big Grammys, a steroid cycle. They're like, Oh, I'm going to do this and be big like big Ram, you know, big Ram. He grew into that over 20 years. First of all, you know, and, and that cycle may not be what works for you.

[00:06:21] Jared Boynton: [00:06:21] Agreed. Agreed. Um, yeah, I mean, I've always said that putting down something on paper and putting something into practice or it's not, it's not really a thing that you can do with bodybuilding. Especially,

[00:06:34] Taeian Clark: [00:06:34] especially with dieting, like we were talking there, Carl, how, you know, some people may have issues with egg, dairy, and then, you know, they see one bodybuilders die, you know, tons of way, tons of eggs and you know, they can't eat because you know, you know, their,

[00:06:47] Jared Boynton: [00:06:47] their

[00:06:47] Taeian Clark: [00:06:47] digestion just stops and it's just a great, it's, it definitely isn't a one size fits all in any way, shape or form.

[00:06:55] Carl Lanore: [00:06:55] So let's jump right into the article, right? The article is Metformin's false status as a [00:07:00] wonder drug for longevity and, and physique goals. So since, um, longevity is a bigger focus of this show, we're going to save that for later. And the more esoteric, or maybe even vein, uh, purposes for people using Metformin is because they want to become shredded.

[00:07:19] What's wrong with that idea that it insulin mimetic couldn't help you get shredded. Which one of you want to jump on that?

[00:07:27] Jared Boynton: [00:07:27] I mean, I can start. Um, and I'm not going to say that an insulin mimetic in general is not going to help you to attain that goal. Um, I will say that Metformin is an insulin and medic that is not as well understood as some of the other ones we have out there and natural ones like berberi, banaba leaf, things like that.

[00:07:44] Um, so I mean, everything and. Everything has to be viewed from a larger lens, I would say. And take it from there.

[00:07:53] Taeian Clark: [00:07:53] Yeah.

[00:07:54] Carl Lanore: [00:07:54] What I find on my end

[00:07:56] Taeian Clark: [00:07:56] is like if somebody's asking me for a minute from a, you know, like you [00:08:00] always said he's met from an, I find more often that people are wanting to use it for bulking, at least when they asked me.

[00:08:05] Or they'll be on G H right in there and they're worried of GH raising their, um, you know, their blood, their blood glucose levels. So we want to take them out from it. So. The issue with that for me and big thing with bulking, right, is, you know, if, um, it's blocking glucose uptake. It's like we discussed that digestive issues toucans it completely can cause nausea slow, um, slow your whole digestion, some diarrhea, some constipation, but it makes them, most everyone feels, um, nauseated and like we've seen in studies, it's a, it's a effects on gut bacteria.

[00:08:34] Some try and twist that into positive effects on gut bacteria, but it's, you know, it's almost similar to taking a body to help some, I think that SFA. The

[00:08:44] Carl Lanore: [00:08:44] free fatty acids.

[00:08:45] Taeian Clark: [00:08:45] Yeah. Um, you know, it helps in some ways and bacteria. Sorry. Um, it's effects on bacteria via that way, but yeah. You know, overall it's had a negative effect on your gut bacteria.

[00:08:57] People are trying to keep saying it. It's beneficial. But if you look at the [00:09:00] studies like in the article, it's not, it's almost similar to antibiotics and a lot of ways.

[00:09:04] Carl Lanore: [00:09:04] And in fact, I, real quick, Jared, I'm going to post the article, a link to the article in the show post when this goes up on our website.

[00:09:13] Because, because you guys have really put a lot of work into listing all of your sources and I see questions coming in over here and we will get to them. I promise you. Uh, let's just get this show rolling past the first break. We'll start to integrate your questions, so stay tuned for that. Okay. Sorry.

[00:09:28] Taeian Clark: [00:09:28] I actually, uh, left out a lot of studies on that too.

[00:09:31] It's funny cause I, I'm, I like to just put the studies that most people wouldn't argue with, like, you know, Oh, this was on humans and so on. There's a whole bunch of animal studies.

[00:09:39] Jared Boynton: [00:09:39] Yeah.

[00:09:40] Taeian Clark: [00:09:40] Um, contamination, water, like causing intersex fish and stuff like that. Like there's a whole bunch of hormone disruptive, all of these in animals.

[00:09:48] Carl Lanore: [00:09:48] Well, and I, and I, there's this, I don't know, there's a couple studies out there that I want to ask you about towards the end about soft tissue. There seems to be some negative effects on soft tissue. Joe, and I'm sorry, I keep stepping on you. Good.

[00:10:00] [00:09:59] Jared Boynton: [00:09:59] No, no, it's fine. I just wanted to go back to the gut thing.

[00:10:02] The gut flora thing. Um, I mean, keep in mind that not everybody has bad gut flora to begin with. Some people have a highly optimized gut and the studies show that Metformin works, uh. Via mechanism, very similar to just a course of antibiotics in general, and you could completely blast out your beneficial gut flora trying to fix something that's not a problem to begin with.

[00:10:25] And that's, it happens all the time. And bodybuilding

[00:10:28] Carl Lanore: [00:10:28] keeps that and that feeds into what I, that fits nicely a juxtapose to what I said at the beginning of the show. But people keep saying Metformin is safe. It's been around 50 years. Yes. So it's safe. That doesn't mean it's doing what you think it's doing just because it doesn't kill you.

[00:10:43] And the reality is it's been widely studied at a sick population. We're only now starting to study it in, in people who are not sick, and we're seeing some potentially outcomes that make us go, Oh, maybe, maybe we shouldn't be giving this to healthy people. Yeah,

[00:10:58] Taeian Clark: [00:10:58] I think I haven't even read [00:11:00] that. Um, are you referring to hugely to that?

[00:11:02] The new cancer study

[00:11:03] Carl Lanore: [00:11:03] about soft tissue.

[00:11:06] Taeian Clark: [00:11:06] I, I can't, I don't, I only skim that one. I seen it. That's kind of what started me to start this article. Uh, I only skimmed that one. With that is in healthy populations, it's cancer increased, right?

[00:11:15] Carl Lanore: [00:11:15] Yes. There is one that shows that as well, and people take it to help.

[00:11:19] People will argue that Metformin is anticancer because it lowers blood, coupe glucose levels and the demand on insulin production. But there seems to be a link, and again, it's. Metformin has a pleiotropic effect. It affects the gut. It affects everything. We don't really know. We just don't know

[00:11:38] Taeian Clark: [00:11:38] in that sick population where help prevent cancer because the how, um, you know, lower end tore in it, you know, the whole, like slowing down of the system.

[00:11:45] So yeah, it's going to slow down though. Replication of already cancerous cells, but you know, that's not good as a whole. It's like, it's like chemotherapy, right? You kind of start killing the human a little bit to kill the cancer cells, and that Metformin is helping to sick people versus a [00:12:00] healthy person.

[00:12:00] You're just completely bringing them into a negative state. So you can't say it has the anticancer benefits like everybody does. You know, cause it's in sick people that it's slowing their whole system.

[00:12:12] Carl Lanore: [00:12:12] I know right now, three different people in my small circle of friends who have been taking Metformin, they're bodybuilders and, and each of them have had major, uh, either complete terror rupture of a, of a, of a large tendon.

[00:12:28] Achilles, uh, the tendon, the, uh, the one that attack goes over the, uh, the kneecap, uh, tibial, tibial, and, and the, and the, and the, and the study I read indicated that, you know, everybody thinks M Tor is just muscle.  is responsible for building every type of tissue in your body, from bone to brain and everything else.

[00:12:53] So, you know, it comes  w we're almost back at the argument about, uh, Ooh, cholesterol [00:13:00] bad. Yeah. No cholesterol is not bad. In some circumstances, it may not be working for you, but you need cholesterol for your brain and for your hormones and everything. Well, I kind of feel like  has fallen into that, into that pocket where O M Tor bad.

[00:13:17] No, it's not bad. And just

[00:13:20] Taeian Clark: [00:13:20] like we discussed before there, before there, she'll start with talking about . Yeah. Everybody's thinking it's bad and they want to Lord as much as possible because those, um, longevity studies on, um, you know, protein intake. But like we discussed before, it's. Due to eating the wrong protein.

[00:13:35] It's due to eating a diet full of muscle meat. Dye is high and you don't mess with time assisting and not balancing it. Like in the wild, we, we eat a whole animal full of it's skin. It's a collagen, you know, we need the whole animal, which the collagen is 24% glycine for weight, which balances the inflammatory negative effects of assisting a methyl file.

[00:13:54] So Android is great as long as you have a balanced amino acid profile that. You know, [00:14:00] benefits, you're not just increasing, you know, the utilization of those bad amino acids in your system. So, yeah.

[00:14:05] Carl Lanore: [00:14:05] Well, and, and here's an interesting, an interesting thing. We have a anxiety disorder is rampant in our population, and I am by no means.

[00:14:14] Saying that there was one thing that's causing it, because I've been doing this long enough to know that if I said that I would have to quit my job. So, so there are lots of things causing anxiety. There's lots of pathways to anxiety, but isn't it interesting. That glycine has been used in social anxiety situations like actors and actresses.

[00:14:36] People have to give speeches. They take three grams of glycine, let it dissolve in the buckle of their mouth and their anxiety. They feel it. They, they just washes away and nobody's eaten a soft tissue. Well, now thank God. You know. Wait. There's a movement on collagen protein,

[00:14:52] Jared Boynton: [00:14:52] right? Oh, and broad. The spinner.

[00:14:53] Her surgeon's in bone broth as well. Yeah.

[00:14:56] Carl Lanore: [00:14:56] Those are good things. That's actually, these are good things. Of course, back in the [00:15:00] day, we would have eaten the oval. Everything inside the animal, all the tissue, everything was used, everything we made, and we made jackets out of the fire and that was it. You know?

[00:15:09] Taeian Clark: [00:15:09] A good play to add on to, um, what you're saying there. And glycine, I'm pretty sure their study, they can't remember in which all mental disorders, but I think it's gets so phrenia and bipolar, large doses and, um, really good treatments for that too. Just more into the anxiety part. And, um, what else was I, Oh, yeah, there's actually a really neat studies, uh, as well.

[00:15:29] They showed the average human lax, I think it was. 10 or so grams of wising for proper metabolic function. I mean, you know, we would simply aren't getting enough in 10 grams is a lot of glycine along that the boat. If it's like a quarter of a collagen protein, a quarter of it is I'm glazing. So you know, times it by force that we need about 40 grams of collagen protein.

[00:15:51] Carl Lanore: [00:15:51] I eat, I eat pork crackling almost every day. I love pork crackling in fact. But those of you who want to have a salad, but you don't want [00:16:00] Cru Taje crackup some pork crackling on your salad, that's great. But that just basically pigskin it's 100% collagen and I, that's what it is. To, to add

[00:16:10] Taeian Clark: [00:16:10] to that too, this is where the average male, which I think is 160 170 pounds, so you know, you're 200 pounds in and besides your weight, if you're eating.

[00:16:18] Way more protein than the average male too, which is, I don't know, 70 or a hundred grams. I don't even remember,

[00:16:23] Carl Lanore: [00:16:23] which is a stupid number. 

[00:16:26] Taeian Clark: [00:16:26] 200 grams of protein, let's say, or 300 who, you know, who knows? You need a lot more relaxing than that 10 grams as well. So, yeah. Oh yeah.

[00:16:34] Carl Lanore: [00:16:34] Yeah. So, Jared, what do you think like, uh, from, from, from a, an anti aging, uh, I'm sorry, from a body re composition standpoint, is there a value.

[00:16:44] Uh, to an, in a, in a healthy population. I'm talk about, cause we, we have some questions here that we're going to bring up here about a sick population, but in a healthy population, is there really any value to it? No, I

[00:16:54] Jared Boynton: [00:16:54] don't think so. And there are, there are natural alternatives and some of them are listed in the article.

[00:16:59] Uh, things like [00:17:00] berberine. It's been highly studied in berberine. I, I do think is a great alternative to Metformin or . To be honest with you, for recomposition, the best thing is just insulin itself used correctly. Um, but you've got alternatives like a chromium, which should be huge in any one side anyway.

[00:17:20] Um. Banaba leaf, Barbara Green, a couple of others. Even cinnamon has a somewhat of an insulin genetic effect. Um, so there's a lot of things that will work, uh, from a recomposition standpoint and a nutrient partitioning standpoint that are not going to have the side effects that Metformin does. Mainly B12 depletion is huge with Metformin.

[00:17:42] Um, that's what is the kind of the STEM of a lot of the issues that Metformin causes. Um. So, yeah, there's no reason to go down that route.

[00:17:53] Carl Lanore: [00:17:53] And, and, and, and real quick. Well, wait, wait, wait a minute, Kane. Hold on one second. So [00:18:00] from a, from a body recomposition standpoint, why hasn't the bodybuilding community, uh, embraced intimate and fasting?

[00:18:07] This notion that we have to be eating around the clock in order to maintain muscle? Is it, isn't that an incorrect assumption? Don't we now know that. That Bazell autophagy actually boosts the anabolic response of a meal, and you can never have Bazell autophagy if you're eating every two hours around the clock.

[00:18:27] Jared Boynton: [00:18:27] I think, I think part of it has to do with, I mean there's, there's always a logical base to bro science, right? There's something that makes it seem like it's correct. Right? And so I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that. The body has no storage mechanism for protein other than muscle itself.

[00:18:46] So like for carbs, you store them as you store them as glycogen for fats, you store them as fatty acid, triglycerides within your, within your lipid cells. There's no storage mechanisms, so people think they have to keep eating and keep [00:19:00] having amino acids flowing through their blood to continue in that anabolic state.

[00:19:05] But we know that. I mean, number one, being in an anabolic state, 24 hours a day is not good to begin with. Um, and number two, as you said, that there are benefits to, to fasting, um, from an autophagy standpoint, um, as well as many other as well as many other aspects.

[00:19:22] Carl Lanore: [00:19:22] Go ahead, Tane, I cut you off.

[00:19:24] Taeian Clark: [00:19:24] Um, what was I saying?

[00:19:26] Um, Oh yeah. Um, actually I forget the first point. I was saying bomb on their guards up, eating to, uh, constantly. Um, I know there's no studies in humans, but I know there's the pig study where it showed, I think if you ate protein sooner than every three hours, it actually blunted a amino acid uptake from the next meal.

[00:19:44] So that's kind of in mind with that, you know. It's not, you know, exactly fasting, but even, especially for bulking, I always refer to guys at minimum not to eat a meal, you know? No, you know, minimum three hours apart and you know, usually a little bit more if they [00:20:00] can space it just for that purpose alone.

[00:20:03] Carl Lanore: [00:20:03] That was, that was actually shown. I did a show, God, when was it with the Layne Norton before he was a doctor. When he was still in school. Yeah. And, and Don layman's, uh, a group up there at the university of Chicago, I guess is where he was, I wanna say, um, well, university of Illinois, I'm sorry. If I got it wrong, uh, but they showed that three, that the, the magic was at three hours.

[00:20:28] Protein, pulse, protein, pulse, every three hours. If you pulse it every three hours, you got the maximum anabolic response and the, and then you had a minimum catabolic response throughout, in between meals,

[00:20:40] Taeian Clark: [00:20:40] three hours

[00:20:42] Jared Boynton: [00:20:42] at the amino acid spiking. Yeah.

[00:20:44] Taeian Clark: [00:20:44] Did you also, um, see that study on, um, I think it was they compared calories, friction, protein.

[00:20:50] They didn't compare a calorie restriction, intermittent fasting, but then with balancing amino acids and the balancing amino acids, how to [00:21:00] better longevity effect and fasting and OD decreasing protein take, uh, as a whole. So kind of back to that mTOR, you know, um,

[00:21:09] Carl Lanore: [00:21:09] you know what the funny thing is 2.5 million years we have evolved.

[00:21:12] Uh, as a result of pressures by our environment in order to continue to survive and thrive as a species. And now, and then over the past 40,000 years, we've, uh, you know, raised cattle and grown our own wheat and all that sort of stuff. But more recently, more recently, there is this notion that diet is a choice.

[00:21:32] Like the whole idea of the vegan movement today, it's like, Oh. No, you just eat what you, and I'm going to tell you why there's some truth to it. Only for a short period of your life. Uh, reproductive fitness has the ability to override every stupid decision you make on a day to day basis. Until you reach the age where reproduction isn't your number one job any longer, and then all the stupid mistakes that you made, all the, all the [00:22:00] nutrients you derive, you didn't get in your body.

[00:22:04] All of these things, man, you hear that, that feedback,

[00:22:10] Taeian Clark: [00:22:10] the feedback.

[00:22:11] Jared Boynton: [00:22:11] I hear some,

[00:22:12] Carl Lanore: [00:22:12] I'm going to have to figure that out. But anyway, the bottom line is diet is not a choice. We OD it has our diet has crafted us to be what we are today. And you can't, um, I want to take a break. When we come back, I want to talk about longevity and I've got to figure out where this, uh, this feedback is coming from.

[00:22:31] Stay tuned. We'll be right back with more super human radio. We're ready.

[00:22:47] No, I think, I think where the audio is coming from, believe it or not, is a taint

[00:22:54] Taeian Clark: [00:22:54] still good.

[00:22:57] Carl Lanore: [00:22:57] Now it's gone. The reason you don't hear attain is cause I think it's [00:23:00] coming from a, can you lower your volume? My voice coming to you? Test, test. Test. Yeah.

[00:23:08] Jared Boynton: [00:23:08] Yeah.

[00:23:10] Carl Lanore: [00:23:10] Okay. This, it's still there a little tiny bit, but it's okay.

[00:23:13] So, um, let, let's in order to segue into the whole discussion about anti-aging, let's put up a couple of questions from Mark to Corso. He says, I've watched a few  interviews and other anti agers. They also seem to point to limiting M Tor and lowering IGF. I've been down a vegan less meat rabbit hole. And it seems that limiting animal meat, all of this.

[00:23:47] Any thoughts on that? So, you know, it's, the whole meat is bad for you argument and, and, and that's, and lowering MTR and IGF one or the chemo agent.

[00:23:59] Jared Boynton: [00:23:59] Okay. [00:24:00] Yeah.

[00:24:00] Taeian Clark: [00:24:00] Okay. Hold on.

[00:24:01] Jared Boynton: [00:24:01] I want to see if we can fix the, uh, the feedback thing cause it's still pretty bad. Um, I'm going to you try it. Yeah. Can you try just like muting yourself when you're not talking and that might fix it

[00:24:11] Carl Lanore: [00:24:11] if it does. Let's see. It may not be him.

[00:24:14] Taeian Clark: [00:24:14] Let me see. Where's the,

[00:24:16] Carl Lanore: [00:24:16] I can mute him.

[00:24:17] Hold on a second.

[00:24:19] Taeian Clark: [00:24:19] Hold on a second.

[00:24:20] Carl Lanore: [00:24:20] See if it goes away. Okay. Test, test, test. It's gone. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I, that's okay. I'll turn you back on here in a second. Yeah, go ahead. So you want to, you want to jump on that? This whole lowering mTOR and IGF one at all costs is the magic to aging better.

[00:24:38] Jared Boynton: [00:24:38] Uh, so it's a balancing act, right?

[00:24:41] I mean, we've known that M Tor is, so there's three cellular signaling pathways, right? You've got M, Tor, you've got ampK , then you've got the, um. HBP, which is the exosome mean biosynthetic pathway. Um, and your body has, I'm not going to say set [00:25:00] rates for all of those, but set rate ranges for all of those.

[00:25:02] And a lot of the things that we do with bodybuilding, try to push them to where outside of the acceptable range. And that's when you run into, um, cellular division that's, that's not intended that becomes cancerous. Um. So I wouldn't say that you need to focus on reducing IGF one or you need to focus on reducing M Tor, but you want to keep it in the natural range.

[00:25:28] Right. And as with anything, I mean, balance is the key.

[00:25:32] Carl Lanore: [00:25:32] I'm going to bring tain back in here. Hold on a second. I'm trying to maneuver to the microphone. So what do you think? I mean, you think the answer to aging better is just completely suppressing mTOR and IGF one.

[00:25:42] Taeian Clark: [00:25:42] No, it's exactly what I said before. You know, I'm towards the only bad under the right circumstance, right?

[00:25:48] Somebody's eating nothing but muscle me sincerely inflammatory. Um, in the end tore effects of just raising, you know, high and even methadone foods and non high-glycemic foods, [00:26:00] you know, like we're discussing balance it with a glycine and an end towards not a bad guy anymore. Cause like you just said on the study stuff.

[00:26:07] The amino acid studies versus, um, you know, keeping emperor Laurel low by, um, restricting protein. Um, the amino acid balancing was better longevity than fasting and, um, lowering emperor. So it literally just a balancing act of amino acids and, um, you know, everybody's linking the, I'm four studies when they should be linking the balancing amino acid studies adds even more longevity.

[00:26:30] It's really. You know, I'm towards just, it's named the bad guy. And when it's not, it's, I mean, you know, I

[00:26:36] Carl Lanore: [00:26:36] see it all. It's, it's like I said before about, uh, about, uh, uh, cholesterol. Good. Yeah.

[00:26:41] Jared Boynton: [00:26:41] There's other stuff that happens when your amino acids are out of balance as well. I mean, like I tell anybody that I talked to any of my clients, um, don't supplement with BCBA is every day, all day.

[00:26:52] Um, because then you run into issues with Jay, with neurotransmitter generation. I mean, if you've got too much leucine [00:27:00] going across the blood brain barrier, then you can't get tired of seeing across the blood brain barrier and then your brain can't create dopamine. So. In the answer to any amino acid is a bad thing.

[00:27:10] Carl Lanore: [00:27:10] Right. All right. And, and T T to speak directly to the IGF one. We just did a show about this. Um, we did a show IGF one, you know, good guy, bad guy, type of a show with the, um, with Ronnie Milo from, uh, renew life RX and all the research shows that, that lower IGF one levels in people, li that correlates with early death.

[00:27:35] And so, you know, this whole IGF one is bad is not true. And you know what baffles me? What's that? Yeah. Like last week. But you know what baffles me the most? You have people out there that are, that are literally pointing at this is the one thing like, Oh, just lower IGF one and lower  and you're going to live forever.

[00:27:57] Nonsense. I, I'm sure that if we wanted to, [00:28:00] we could find a thousand people who would. Prove the opposite of that is true in our population. People that eat high protein, they train, they build muscle, and they're 80 years old. And then when you look at the studies. Are large populations like the one done by the California veterans administration.

[00:28:22] There were like 60,000 men in that study, and they said the men, the strongest men who maintain the muscle mass from 65 on up, they lived the longest. Well, wait a minute. If they're maintaining muscle mass, they're turning em to Iran. That completely flies in the face of this idea that M Tor is bad. It's going to shorten your life.

[00:28:41] And you know, and I just wish people in our community what start to, uh, Oh stop digging their heels in that this is the one thing, this is the only way it is because it's insulting. When you look at how complex the effing body is to say this is the one [00:29:00] thing, this is how it works. I mean, it just frustrates the crap out of me.

[00:29:05] Um, we have, uh, we have a fellow here. He says, it all seems to be timing limiting animal. Yeah. And I don't buy the whole animal protein is bad thing at all. Uh, I know that there's a vegan movement out there, but vegans are very sick people. Vegans tend to be in the sickest in our population. They only look at heart studies.

[00:29:25] They don't look at the quality of life studies. When you look at vegans and quality of life, you see a completely different picture.

[00:29:30] Jared Boynton: [00:29:30] You know what? I don't want to dive too deep into that cause I don't want to get death threats. But, uh, Oh, I know. We do have, I mean, we have studies showing that veganism does impact, um, brain function.

[00:29:41] Carl Lanore: [00:29:41] Oh, vegans. Vegans have the greatest level of mental illness of any group in our population. Any. And in 2012 psychology today wrote an article about a study, and this study was called, why do vegan suffer from greater mental illness than omnivores? And it's a pretty plain title, [00:30:00] right? And what they found out was there were three reasons, and they, they couldn't pin it down.

[00:30:05] Either. Vegans are sick people to begin with them. They, they go to radically change their diet because they think it's gonna make them better. Vegans are hypochondriacs. Uh, or, or the diet itself makes them sick, but none of those three are good. I wouldn't pick, I wouldn't go, Oh, well two isn't bad. I'll go with two.

[00:30:24] Jared Boynton: [00:30:24] Agreed.

[00:30:24] Carl Lanore: [00:30:24] So here, let me, let me get closer to this. So, uh, we have, uh, Mike bear says, I still believe that Metformin has been a significant cause of the, I can't even read this. They've made this, this thing, so small C significant cause of the foreigners. Gangrene infection I acquired five years ago. Wow. Why?

[00:30:48] My most significant fitness goal is to lose weight and get it off and get off of Metformin. Good for you. I used to weigh 550 pounds. [00:31:00] I'm down to three 57 I'll lose between 50 and a hundred pounds in 2020.

[00:31:06] Jared Boynton: [00:31:06] Well, it will be known with that Metformin, um, via the actions that it has on B12 elevates homocysteine, which can cause all sorts of circulatory issues.

[00:31:16] Um, it can cause erectile dysfunction. It can cause all sorts of other cardiovascular elements. Um, and I'm sure Tan's got all the studies to back that up.

[00:31:27] Carl Lanore: [00:31:27] Do you want to jump into, I didn't turn your microphone off cause I'm not getting feedback now. So good.

[00:31:31] Taeian Clark: [00:31:31] No. Okay. Um, so yeah. Um, what were we talking about?

[00:31:37] Um,

[00:31:37] Jared Boynton: [00:31:37] Oh yeah,

[00:31:40] Taeian Clark: [00:31:40] Metformin, uh, you know, can

[00:31:42] Jared Boynton: [00:31:42] deplete B 12. B12

[00:31:43] Taeian Clark: [00:31:43] you know, need it for, um, proper nerve function. Can cause neuropathy when it's depleted, you know, lack of blood flow.

[00:31:50] Jared Boynton: [00:31:50] Do Pacific areas. Right.

[00:31:52] Taeian Clark: [00:31:52] Um, you know, just,

[00:31:53] Jared Boynton: [00:31:53] you know, diabetics, the lack of blood flow is  primary cause of that. Gangrene.

[00:32:00] [00:32:00] Taeian Clark: [00:32:00] The diabetics getting there, um, you know, requiring, you know, a foot cut off.

[00:32:05] Due to lack of blood circulation. Um, so yeah, you know, especially what today, you know, be 12 is so low in most people's diets anyways. Well, unless you're a bodybuilder, generally, depending if you're eating a lot of meat,

[00:32:16] Carl Lanore: [00:32:16] well, but wait a minute. But what all the gut problems out there today, there are a lot of people that don't have that Trinzic factor.

[00:32:20] They don't even absorb B12.

[00:32:22] Taeian Clark: [00:32:22] Yup. Yeah. Um, another thing I thought my Mike was out there, I wanted to touch on the vegan topic. Yeah,

[00:32:29] Carl Lanore: [00:32:29] yeah, please.

[00:32:31] Taeian Clark: [00:32:31] Another factor that I have a big article on this. Um, I haven't released yet. Um, another big problem with this, nobody's comparing a vegan diet to a meat diet.

[00:32:40] There's no such thing. Well, there is, sorry, you had to compare the vegan diet to the Eskimo diet, which is almost entirely me. And if you did that, you are then on level playing field. The Eskimos or something new. You know, the new studies on Eskimos living in Western populations,

[00:32:55] Carl Lanore: [00:32:55] they're eating hamburger.

[00:32:56] Yeah. They eating McDonald's now.

[00:32:58] Taeian Clark: [00:32:58] So, but the old studies are, [00:33:00] there was none of the diabetes, the heart disease, any of this stuff. So that is a true comparison of a vegan diet to meat diet. Essentially what they're comparing the vegan diet to is an American diet, which this is what I always say. If you want to make it equal, you.

[00:33:13] You take, um, you take the vegan diet, cook it all at high temperatures, you're going to see your, your many of your B vitamins laws, you know, vitamin C, you just going to see a whole before of your vitamins loss, and then it's going to become insanely unhealthy. When polyunsaturated fats, they become heated.

[00:33:27] So essentially they're paying a raw diet almost to a cook diet. All the bad negatives of me are basically due to ages,

[00:33:36] Carl Lanore: [00:33:36] high heat cooking,

[00:33:37] Taeian Clark: [00:33:37] right? Yeah. So you take out, you take out the high temperature cooking in me, and you eat. A raw or steamed diet of me. Almost like an Eskimo, a diet. You see all the meat die issues go away.

[00:33:49] It's not a problem. Meat is a temp, a problem, high temperature cooking. And you know, the process foods in the American diet that they're claiming is a meat diet. So you want to make it equal, uh, have the vegans eat a whole bunch of [00:34:00] processed foods that are vegan and cook everything at 400 degrees. All the fats become bad.

[00:34:04] And now you have an equally bad diet. Or if you want to compare a healthy, raw vegan diet to. How'd you meet? I, you look at the Eskimos, it's, it's not even on this, it's like apples and oranges. They're comparing it to, it makes no sense.

[00:34:15] Carl Lanore: [00:34:15] Let me answer this question real quick. Uh, Joel, yes, it will be on our YouTube channel.

[00:34:20] I don't publicize the YouTube channel. But all the Facebook lives end up there in a couple of days and then Mark the course came back and said, uh, the idea is a animal meat is high in leucine, which may be detrimental. No, that's impossible for leucine to be detrimental. You look, when you, when you look at things from an evolutionary perspective, leucine has never been detrimental.

[00:34:47] At all, what, what was pointed out by Tane a little while ago, and the fact that we don't get any glycine in our diet anymore because nobody eats the CNU. Nobody eats the skin. Nobody eats the [00:35:00] knuckles and, and, and, you know, and the gelatin ISED a soft tissue anymore. So  leucine is not bad. Lucien is very good for you.

[00:35:10] Look, you shut off Tor. And you're going to fall apart, your skin's going to fall apart, your body's going to fall apart. You, you may live to be 80 or 90 and you'll be sitting in your wheelchair facing the wall at the nursing home, and they'll come over giving you a Metformin. Trust me, the Metformin is going to play out to be very, very bad in those who dig their heels in and ignore the science that's saying, look, we need to rethink this.

[00:35:36] You know, in a healthy population, it may not be a good idea. Those who ignore it are going to see the pitfalls of it. If you, if you think Metformin is good, they just fast. Just go to time restricted feeding eight, eat eight hours a day and fast 16 hours days easy. When you stop eating at 6:00 PM and you sleep through half of your fast.

[00:35:58] Jared Boynton: [00:35:58] Yeah, that's very true. I heard you, uh, bring that [00:36:00] up, I think in the podcast a couple of weeks ago with, uh, with Joel green and I, I agree with that completely. I mean, finishing up, and it's really hard for somebody, builders, I mean, people who are eating six to eight meals a day, it's really hard for people to kind of call that, that eating and get those meals in early in the day.

[00:36:17] But the benefits that you get from, uh, from finishing up your. Your digestion or you know, finishing your, your consumption. Um, multiple hours before dated, there had been multiple studies that have shown the benefits of that for entering REM sleep, for answering deep sleep sleep.

[00:36:34] Carl Lanore: [00:36:34] Yeah. Oh, so that's a Dale Bredesen came on my show when he did his first study with like 22 people, I think it was.

[00:36:43] And uh, now he, then he did 200 people and he wrote a book about it called the end of Alzheimer's, but he showed that when Alzheimer's patients. Stop the eating at 6:00 PM and went to bed at nine they got three hours of sleep before midnight. They got all the deep sleep around. Then 1:00 AM in the morning.

[00:36:58] They kicked into REM, [00:37:00] just like perfect sleep hygiene because the factory wasn't working all night digesting food. They were able to do that and also. There's a phenomenon I've talked about on this show forever, and if you track your sleep with any kind of sleep tracking device, you know your heart rate changes.

[00:37:16] There are people that are called non dippers. When your heart rate is at 60 beats per minute all night long, you're going to die of a heart attack and you sleep. It's been shown, they call these people non dippers. Your heart rate should drop. At some point in the night and hit its lowest point and then start climbing back up again.

[00:37:34] That is where the heart recuperates and if you don't have that little V notch and your heart rate at it, sleep, I can tell you right now, that's how you're going to go. You're going to die in your sleep of a heart attack.

[00:37:45] Jared Boynton: [00:37:45] Yeah. Heart rate variance is big. I mean, it's a big way to measure your training as well.

[00:37:51] I mean, you can tell whether you're overtraining based upon your heart rate variance and you give it nine. So, yeah, that, that is one of the things that I [00:38:00] absolutely encourage people to track is, uh, not only, I mean, some devices are not as accurate as others, but I do encourage people to track their sleeve track as best they can, how much deep sleep they're getting, uh, if not REM sleep as well.

[00:38:12] And to track their heart rate variance. I mean, there are apps out now. You don't even have to have a wearable device. You can just put your finger over the camera of your phone and measure your heart rate variants when you wake up in the morning. Um, and that's a good enough indicator of your, um. Of your stress levels, your body's stress level, and your capacity for recovery.

[00:38:31] Carl Lanore: [00:38:31] Tane, um, do you, are you, a lot of bodybuilders love to eat at, during sleep? A lot of them don't wake up in the middle of night and have a protein shake. I mean, I did it back in the day cause that's what people did all you want, every ounce of muscle you could build. This was just stupid, wasn't it? Oh

[00:38:49] Taeian Clark: [00:38:49] yeah, absolutely.

[00:38:50] I mean, well, I know you're sorted. Got health to your, um. How long is the, I think it's four hours for a, your small intestine did that. [00:39:00] Um, the, the dude, uh, did Kenya pronounce or I know they do a diem, uh, the face, the face for, um, uh, cleansing or clearing as that goes through to help keep up bacteria to the small intestine.

[00:39:14] You know, I think that's something like four hours. You're supposed to get break beef between a digest and just for that alone.

[00:39:21] Carl Lanore: [00:39:21] Uh, we have to take a commercial break. When we come back. We have a couple of really good questions from the audience. So here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna take one quick commercial break, pay some bills, we'll be right back.

[00:39:32] This is the superhuman channel doing reps with the weight of the world.

[00:39:39] Welcome back to superhuman radio, or talk to Jared Boynton and Tane Clark. If you want to reach out to these guys and learn more about them, I'm going to flash their websites up here real quick. Jared is extra life project.com and Tanes is his name, but you've got to pay attention to the way you spell it.

[00:39:59] It's T. [00:40:00] a, E I a N. Tane.com. So let's knock out a couple. Uh, I gotta close this window. I'm my own producer, you know? Uh, okay. Aleksandra is that a dang Covinsky? I'm sorry if I mispronounce it dry. Oh, Dre drank Cova ski. I'm sorry. I can't see. They changed the print size on this stuff. It's amazing. Awesome topic.

[00:40:24] Uh, and then of course. Here's a couple of questions. Please tell me the benefits of Metformin for athletes. Are there any other benefits that, no, you're laughing. It's not a stupid question, but you're laughing because it really doesn't provide any benefits for athletes, does it?

[00:40:42] Jared Boynton: [00:40:42] No. I mean, I, it's safe to say no.

[00:40:45] No. I'm not saying like, like you said early in the podcast, I'm not saying that there's no place for Metformin in the world in general, but there is no place for Metformin in, in athletes for performance.

[00:40:58] Carl Lanore: [00:40:58] I mean, [00:41:00] take miner. If I asked you to play seven degrees of Kevin bacon and find me a potential benefit.

[00:41:08] In athletic performance, maybe on a VO two max. I mean, stretch a little bit. Like what could it potentially do? Uh, if, if you're, if you're, if you're managing blood sugar levels, because don't forget it's an insulin mimetic but it's not strong like insulin. It's not going to, you can't eat a bunch of carbs and it's going to shuttle it all into a muscle.

[00:41:26] Right?

[00:41:27] Taeian Clark: [00:41:27] Yeah. That's the thing I would want to say, it's helping insulin sensitivity, so more infant sensitivity, more nutrients in the muscles, but that's not even what it does. It's, you know, it's. Blocking your glucose uptake. So it's, you know, it's helping your health is somewhat helping your health, right.

[00:41:43] With, um, less circulating glucose, but it's, you know, it's not benefiting you. It's like a negative and a benefits or it's just, you kind of

[00:41:52] Carl Lanore: [00:41:52] explain that it, it's, it's blocking glucose uptake. But it's lowering [00:42:00] circulating glucose. So how is it lowering circulating glucose if it's blocking glucose up?

[00:42:04] Taeian Clark: [00:42:04] Does the bacterial effects in the gut  I forget the exact mechanism isn't a bacterial study, but it's blocking via bacteria.

[00:42:13] Um.

[00:42:14] Carl Lanore: [00:42:14] So you're so really, so really it's kind of like, remember that stuff for fat? Remember that? What was that? Zane Zaley

[00:42:24] blocked fat absorption, which meant that you crapped the fat out

[00:42:28] Jared Boynton: [00:42:28] in whole

[00:42:31] Carl Lanore: [00:42:31] crapping fat. That's what you did. Oh.

[00:42:33] Jared Boynton: [00:42:33] It's still somewhat widely used, really the things that somebody builders will put themselves through just to have a couple of extra calories right.

[00:42:41] Carl Lanore: [00:42:41] That's amazing. So, so it blocks the uptake of, of glucose in the gut is what

[00:42:47] Taeian Clark: [00:42:47] got, and obviously it's, um, it's glucogenesis um, well gluco  uh, glucogenesis, um, effect too, right?

[00:42:58] Carl Lanore: [00:42:58] It blocks, blocks [00:43:00] gluconeogenesis,

[00:43:00] Taeian Clark: [00:43:00] right? So, I mean, it's kind of like, right. It's, it's, I think a benefit, but a negative at the same time. So, um, what was I saying? And then obviously it's minor benefit with that loss. You could say that it's, you know, uh, somewhat blocking. Um. Um, energy and take getting into enter the fat cell.

[00:43:20] I'm not even sure if it AIDS, um, fat cell. Um, cause I know a lot of people don't know this, but muscle insulin sensitivity and there's fat, it's a fat cell, things insensitive, right? Like things that glutamine that's been proven to increase muscle insulin sensitivity and block fat cell insulin sensitivity.

[00:43:36] Right. But I'm so, I'm not even sure if there's studies on a blocking fat cell, insulin, insulin sensitivity on Metformin. I've never even looked into it.

[00:43:44] Jared Boynton: [00:43:44] There are, I mean, there are studies that show that it increases insulin sensitivity specifically in muscle tissue, but I don't know that that's worth, worth all of it.

[00:43:54] It's not worth the peripheral neuropathy. I mean, it's not worth not being able to fire the nerves and your muscles and things like that.

[00:44:00] [00:44:00] Carl Lanore: [00:44:00] So what about this, uh, this notion that a berberine is comparative. Does berberine work the same way as Metformin? Does it block glucose absorption in the gut?

[00:44:11] Berberine

[00:44:12] Jared Boynton: [00:44:12] does have action on the gut microbiota. Um, but I mean, again, the gut is, it's such a complex thing. We don't really know all that much about gut flora and what influences why. So, I mean, it's hard to say, but there is evidence that shows that berberine does have an effect on gut microbiota as well.

[00:44:30] Now. That being said, insulin does not, or sorry, berberine's does not have all of these other batteries that,

[00:44:40] Taeian Clark: [00:44:40] uh, the one thing, um, I remember Jack, uh, Jeremy you were talking about earlier, so it does not fully, it does affect M Tor, but it seems not as much for green. Yeah. That was, that was the one thing, but it seems possibly not as much. Um, I think. Derek has a study on LinkedIn there that he sent you. Yeah. It's just not as [00:45:00] much, but it seemed to affect it slightly

[00:45:02] Carl Lanore: [00:45:02] is the one thing.

[00:45:03] Well, and the other thing is, um, in about 2007, I interviewed a scientist from Rutgers university. I published a study. And at that point in time, it was done on flies and Sila Ghanns and yeast and rodents at that point in time. But what they showed was, in fact, that is glucose signaling that makes cells senescent.

[00:45:29] And we know that the lowest common denominator, the core of poor aging is the accumulation of cellular senescence or senescent cells. I'm sorry. Uh, and getting those senescent cells to turn back into  cells is supposed to be what shutting off M Tor will do. But it doesn't do that with Metformin. Does not does it with rap myosin.

[00:45:55] It does. And that's because wrap-up highest in is very, very different pathway of action [00:46:00] than Metformin. And that brings me to this next question. And this one comes from drew holiday. He says, what are your thoughts on days on and days off of Metformin? I drew, I think you'd be much better served. I mean, I guess you could do that.

[00:46:17] Uh, and, and, and mingle in intermittent fasting. You know, an eight, 16, uh, window of time, and I'll get your guys' opinion here in a second, but I think you just need to get rapid. Maya said to take it twice a month, take six milligrams because rap myosin. We'll suppress M talk for three days, three days, one six milligram dose.

[00:46:39] There's a caveat that no one's talking about that you will not hear anywhere else, but this show today, so it will suppress them talk for three days and ramp up and PK, but just for those three days, twice a month, that is a much better alternative than taking Metformin day in and day out. Day ended up.

[00:46:58] You guys jump in here. What do [00:47:00] you think.

[00:47:01] Taeian Clark: [00:47:01] Do you want to go do it? Or me? Me. Like I, um, so one of the things that I thought  again, like we were saying, um, yeah, so, well, first of all, I don't think, you know, I wouldn't even take Metformin at all. Um, I know you're just talking about, um, suppressing, uh, M Tor. Uh, one of the big things I, I forgot to mention with that is, um, uh, Glock.

[00:47:22] Okay. So when you. Well, you know, one of the negatives of , it's oppressing us, our cuisine, right? You know, it's, uh, you, you know, that, you know, it's used to mop up the dead cells in your body, uh, if you're familiar with that, and, you know, so that's one of the reasons why, you know, suppressing M is, is, is good because  will, you know, it shuts that down.

[00:47:40] And you know. We're, you know, it's not mopping up the dead cells in your body. However, um, glycine was shown, even when emperor is elevated, it negative  did not suppress our Caseen anymore. Us harvesting, say, elevate it when a glycine was in. So it literally

[00:47:57] Carl Lanore: [00:47:57] took away that glycine is a better [00:48:00] choice.

[00:48:00] Basically. 

[00:48:02] Taeian Clark: [00:48:02] they mix not negative like we talking about. So people looking to surprise and pour for whatever little benefits they think of having on Asian, uh, aging. Just. A, in the whole, you know, your body's still mopping up its dead cells. So it, you know, takes away one of the biggest, uh, issues with it.

[00:48:20] Jared Boynton: [00:48:20] Yeah. Yeah. So if, so, if we're looking at, um, I mean, you, if you want to keep them tour high, the end and you're not, you're not worried about it then, then glycine is the best way to go about it. Now, if you're still stuck on the, I really want to reduce them to or for whatever reason. Um, so we know that amp activated protein kinase and M Tor are inversely related, right?

[00:48:43] And we know that the, the NPK pathway is stimulated when. Um, ATP stores are low and you don't have a source of fuel. So what's, what's the way to lower M tour? Just fast. It's extremely easy. Just don't eat anything. That's it. [00:49:00] If you really want us to lower mTOR, just fast intermittent fasting or even get past all day,

[00:49:07] Carl Lanore: [00:49:07] and fasting is something that has been a metabolic gift through evolution to you, which means that.

[00:49:14] The body knows what to turn on and turn off when you fast as opposed to this, this a biohack, Oh, we're going to biohack and suppress mTOR, and the body is still doing these other things as if M Tor wasn't suppressed. You know the body, man, you, it's like going, it's, I go into a PC board and your computer and going, I think I'm just going to pull this one wire out and that'll fix everything and it blows you board.

[00:49:40] It's like, you can't, w we, we keep thinking we're smarter than our bodies and we're really not. We need to stop paying it. Then I said, let's see here.

[00:49:47] Jared Boynton: [00:49:47] This, this a whole nother, like honestly, a whole nother episode that tan and I could do on like the antagonism and synergism of like, individual nutrients and how you trying to hack your body is really screwing [00:50:00] yourself up.

[00:50:01] Uh, like to, and I know you had, you wanted to talk briefly about like vitamin D,

[00:50:05] Carl Lanore: [00:50:05] vitamin D.

[00:50:06] Jared Boynton: [00:50:06] yeah,

[00:50:07] Taeian Clark: [00:50:07] yeah, yeah. I'm good. Uh, just the, you know, if you have a vitamin D deficiency, sure. Take vitamin D. uh, but even then I still like, I mean, I still would have heard from whole foods because you checking one vitamin, it'd be like, okay, vitamin D is low.

[00:50:23] And you know, nobody takes vitamin a retinol, vitamin a, whatever. You take one a vitamin, you take one vitamin, you could throw off, you know, 10, 20 other vitamins. You know, vitamin D will deplete magnesium. And, you know, it's not. A lot of times it won't even be just depleting it for the sake of depleting it.

[00:50:39] It'll be a depleting it for the sake of using it up. Like the new study showed a lot of vitamin D deficiencies are really just magnesium deficiencies needed to utilize the vitamin D. so that's how, you know, studies show vitamin D will deplete magnesium. It depletes potassium. Um, I may be getting some of the fat solubles mix up, but I know a D E and K all kind of [00:51:00] deplete.

[00:51:00] Each one would have fleet one, one would deplete the other. Um, I think D would apply a. And I think it will deplete E. I can't remember aboutK , but yeah, so I mean, you take one vitamin and you know you're taking it 10 let's say 10 K a day to get it up. And then your, your, your others might be low, maybe even off.

[00:51:16] But either way, you're taking a high dose rate that you're depleting all the other souls.

[00:51:20] Carl Lanore: [00:51:20] But nobody, but nobody should be depending on, unfortunately. No one should be depending on D in their diet at all because he should be produced in your skin from sun exposure. This whole idea, you know, look, I take vitamin D right now because I'm not out in the sun at all.

[00:51:37] I mean, I'm just not into summer. I'm out in the sun every day. I lay out at least for 45 minutes, and I, and I get so frigging dark. I mean, this is leftover from the summer, and so, but really the reality is that. Vitamin D is manufactured and and monitored and regulated in the skin. The body will only make as much [00:52:00] as it absolutely needs.

[00:52:01] You can't overdose on vitamin D produced in your skin because there's actually a system in the skin to deplete it. And burn it up before it gets turned into 25 hydroxy when the feedback from the liver is, we got plenty, you know? So I agree with you. And vitamin a is more important than vitamin D a lot of times, and people don't take it at all.

[00:52:25] In fact, I had some guy come on my show. Who said that vitamin a is the reason for all disease and illness. And then I came to find out that he never even tested his vitamin a levels retinal, he was eating carotenoids. I said, dude, carotenoids don't even convert to vitamin D and 50% of the population, I mean a, and he was like convinced that vitamin a was stored in the liver.

[00:52:48] Not as a storage attempt, but a sea quest  that the, that's so harmful to the body that the liver tries to get it out of the bloodstream. It was the stupidest premise in the world, but it's when, [00:53:00] when the guy came to me, he was sent to me by somebody else and it was like, this guy has a really interesting angle, and I had him on, but then when I said, so you, he claimed to have been in vitamin a overload and it was causing all these problems for him.

[00:53:13] He never had his blood levels of vitamin a tested. I said, so how did you determine you invited me any overload? I was eating a lot of foods. High end carrot, carotenoids,

[00:53:26] Taeian Clark: [00:53:26] I believe in a study that showed when they deplete it, rats of, um, vitamin a. It took just for how unusable it is, basically, if you want to call it to the human body, it took 10 times a dose.

[00:53:37] It was basically one. Uh, I you have retinol was equal to 10. I, you have a better care team basically. So you don't want to get a thousand IQ of retinol equal to, you need a 10,000 IQ of, uh, better guarantees, you know? And at that point, you know, you haven't got 20,000 or more, it starts having a negative effects on your body, you know, the better care

[00:53:56] Carl Lanore: [00:53:56] there were.

[00:53:57] There were several questions and wanting to get to all, but I want to bring this [00:54:00] one up first because it's about vitamin D specifically. Okay. So, um. Robin de  says, many people are vitamin D deficient, even with five plus hours a day in the sun exposure. How come? Not enough vitamin a? I'm going to tell you something that no one wants to talk about.

[00:54:22] You know, um, your body will make, if you were out in the sun all the time, your body will make only the vitamin. D that you need, and you may go into, we'll get lab work done, and you may yet be at 43 uh, what is it? Nanograms, uh, or pickup nanograms. A deco leader, and you and your friends will say, Oh, that's low.

[00:54:42] You gotta be 70 to 80. Maybe not, maybe not few Scandinavian people can take a thousand. I'll use. A vitamin D a day and and raise their 25 hydroxy, but like 30 points me because I've got Northern African blood and Italian blood in me. I [00:55:00] could take 20,000 a day. My vitamin D doesn't go up at all. And when I lay in the sun, the highest, my vitamin D 25 hydroxy levels ever go with just under 50 and that's what me laying in the sun.

[00:55:11] So this illusion that it's not enough. That's baloney though. When doctors start to test, um, parathyroid hormone calcitonin, so when you have the right amount of vitamin D in your blood, not more, not less. Calcitonin production will drop to almost zero from your, from your parathyroid, because the vitamin D is doing everything to keep bones mineralized that needs to be done, which means that taking more or laying in the sun longer and raising it higher doesn't do anything good for you and you can't lay in the sun and raise it higher because the body goes, we don't want more than that.

[00:55:54] So once again, we come back to this whole medical orthodoxy. You know, this is the range that you [00:56:00] may not fall. You may not, that may not be your range. If you're dark skinned, you need more exposure to sun to produce the same amount of vitamin D that somebody fair skin like Tane would do in an hour in the sun.

[00:56:14] Jared Boynton: [00:56:14] There's so many variables. I mean, as you said, like melanin content of your skin as tan brought up earlier, magnesium as a cofactor for vitamin D biosynthesis. So if you're magnesium deficient, which honestly a lot of people in the population are. I mean, that could be another reason is there's so many things you have to look at when it comes to a vitamin or a nutrient insufficiency.

[00:56:34] There's just so many factors. It's hard. To look at. As I said earlier, it's hard to look at one thing with a laser focus without looking through the larger

[00:56:42] Taeian Clark: [00:56:42] lens.

[00:56:44] Carl Lanore: [00:56:44] You want to jump in there? Painting, comment on that? Uh,

[00:56:46] Taeian Clark: [00:56:46] yeah. I, I know what the studies are talking about as well there Carl. Um, they showed, you know, different vitamin D levels amongst different, um, um, ethnicities and they showed that.

[00:56:56] You know, somebody, uh, some cultures had lower, but [00:57:00] all their, you know, their bone marker status, all that, you know, all that junk was, it was perfectly fine. So it showed those differences in there. And I guess specific to the, uh, just what Jared said to what I said earlier, what, um, Robin there was asking, uh, magnesium is.

[00:57:14] That's, you know, one of the, uh, the biggest proven, proven links, we have already shown that vitamin D actual vitamin D deficient people, magnesium Rose, those levels, like do their levels just were not rising til they added vitamin D. so the vitamin D to be utilized.

[00:57:28] Carl Lanore: [00:57:28] Oh, here's a good question. I'm sorry, go ahead.

[00:57:31] You

[00:57:31] Jared Boynton: [00:57:31] mentioned vitamin a in his question as well, and actually it's actually the, Ken made the opposite. I mean, if you're a vitamin a is too high or retinol is too high, or your beta carotene is too high, then. It's been shown to decrease vitamin D uptake by up to 30%

[00:57:46] Carl Lanore: [00:57:46] because vitamin D and vitamin a of vying for the same apartment building.

[00:57:50] It's called your liver. And if, if vitamin a has all the, all the apartments leased out, vitamin D has no place to rent. And actually [00:58:00] by taking oral D, um, your liver can attempt to store so much 25 hydroxy that you could actually undergo a phenomenon. I can't think of the name of it right now, but it's when the hepatic cells start to burst and they let a whore, harmful protein out along with the vitamin D that was stored, and you can actually cause severe liver damage by taking too much vitamin oral.

[00:58:26] Vitamin D can't do that by laying in the sun because the body is perfect. Body knows what to do.

[00:58:33] Taeian Clark: [00:58:33] I think I've only ever seen, there's a few, I think there's like handful, like maybe two or three of actually vitamin D talked with toxicity from the sun and those were from lifeguards. And it's like, there's a couple out there like to, you know, those are people that are, uh, you know, shirtless and in the sun for literally like endless hours all day.

[00:58:51] And that's probably just a reason that was, cause they didn't have, you know, the balancing, you know, like vitamin a and D, right? They balanced each other. So that's like a rare circumstance where somebody [00:59:00] maybe wasn't getting enough vitamin a to balance a vitamin D and you're in the sun, literally, you know, 16 hours a day and utilize that peak hours for suddenly to UVA, UVB rays.

[00:59:11] Carl Lanore: [00:59:11] So Cecilia Lim Mayer says, I'm 65 year old female prediabetic. Should I consider Metformin? I'll let you guys go first. This

[00:59:18] Jared Boynton: [00:59:18] is one of the scenarios where I would say yes. I mean, if it's under the supervision of your doctor and you've tried, you've ruled out everything that's not medicine-based first, then yes, absolutely consider Metformin because your doctor is going to be monitoring.

[00:59:33] Uh, all the things that we pointed out in the article are bad for you with Metformin. They're going to be monitoring your B12 levels. They're going to be monitoring your height. Your homocysteine levels are, they should be, or you need to find a new doctor. Um, so I would say yes, absolutely. I mean, my father, um, significantly reduced his age, his HBA, one C, uh, with Metformin after trying a whole bunch of other things that, that didn't work.

[00:59:59] So 

[01:00:01] [01:00:00] Carl Lanore: [01:00:01] and that's, this is where pharmaceutical drug should work as a rescue. I've tried everything and I can't get it down, and I know that if I don't get it down, I'm harming my body. Okay. But only if you've truly tried everything. Have you tried intermittent fasting? Have you tried cutting back on your carbohydrate intake?

[01:00:20] Have you tried things that literally will cure your type two diabetes in under six months? Have you tried those things? And then if you say, yeah. I went keto for six months. Uh, you know, literally, uh, you know, strict kedo. Uh, you know, I've tried other things. I've, I fee, I only eat two meals a day, so I'm fasting basically most of the day and most of the night, and I can't get my blood sugar to go down and Metformin works for me then.

[01:00:46] Absolutely. Absolutely.

[01:00:48] Jared Boynton: [01:00:48] Yeah. I mean, I think it's, it's. I hate to put it this way, but it's, it's a crutch for people that don't have the knowledge to tackle it in another way. Um, and that, I mean, that's not a bad thing. I mean, having something that's an [01:01:00] emergency net for those people is, is fantastic. Not everybody out there is going to sit and listen to podcasts all day.

[01:01:06] They're going to, they're not going to read through research materials all day. They just don't have the time. And for those people, I think. That's the target audience for Metformin. But there are, there are many, many, many other ways, um, to reduce your, uh, your SBA oncey or general blood glucose. Um, it's just a matter of finding which one works for you and, and being willing to put yourself through that trial and error process.

[01:01:30] Carl Lanore: [01:01:30] Okay. Tan, go ahead.

[01:01:32] Taeian Clark: [01:01:32] Um, I'm going to answer this as in not do this, but what I would do if I was pre-diabetic, um, if I was pre-diabetic, um, I wouldn't be worried about jumping on it right away just because, you know, prediabetic. I think it's you, when you're fasting range is like one 14 and under or, yeah, one 14 and under.

[01:01:48] I think pre-diabetic, you know, that's, you know, that's not crazy high. You still have weeks and stuff to play around with stuff. If I was diagnosed pre diabetic, um, one of the. A few things. I do. One PROMEO now, there's only one case [01:02:00] study with chromium showing this, but nonetheless, it helps. Um, they took a diabetic woman who was using 45 IQ insulin a day and chromium's habilitation after just a couple months, fully shut her need for insulin, a to zero got off insulin.

[01:02:14] Um. Another thing I do, uh, is a dieting. So this study has been repeated, I think twice now, where they took, I forget how many people, I think it was around a hundred people each time, and they put them on a very low calorie diet. Now will calories isn't good. You know what I mean? Um. You know, you need calories, you need energy, whatever.

[01:02:31] Um, I think the reason, I'll explain why, I think the reason the low calorie diet worked later, but they put them on under 900 calories a day, which is very low. You know, they'll do longterm, both in a few weeks. Both times, every single participant in the study reverse their diabetes fully. Um, the reason I think without, we just.

[01:02:49] You know, they ate less bad foods,

[01:02:52] Carl Lanore: [01:02:52] which when you only have 900 calories a day, you're much more selective on what you're going to eat.

[01:02:59] Taeian Clark: [01:02:59] Um, [01:03:00] so I think it was because they had less bad foods. So, you know, if it was me, I would just completely revamp my diet. And you know what I mean? I may or may not go right down to the 900 calories.

[01:03:11] I mean. Eating 900 calories, calories affricate for how many weeks of me? It was like a couple months. It's not going to do you any harm. It's, it's going to save your life in a sense to reverse that diabetes. So, um, you know, lower the calories to that. But the bigger picture I think is eating right. And you know, people say all the time, will I eat so amazing?

[01:03:29] I do this, I do that. And every single athlete or persons died, I look over, they'd be like, Oh, I eat great. I check their potassium. For example. It's always 1,500 milligrams, maybe two K. And the RDA is 4.7K  loan, but Tassian is one of the biggest nutrients for insulin release, uh, infant sensitivity and, um, you know, your body uptaking, glucose, just all of that.

[01:03:50] So, you know, that's just one example of people think on eating great when they're having a salad of lettuce and stuff like that, and their potassium is no over need. [01:04:00] Nowhere near the needed amount for their, you know, their insulin, use insulin release, all that stuff. So. When do you think you're eating healthy?

[01:04:07] Take a step back and think you're probably not eating healthy unless you're a very, very, um, nutritional expert. But nine times out of a 99 times at a hundred, you're not eating healthy. So figure out what eating healthy is and then lower those calories. That's what I would do.

[01:04:21] Carl Lanore: [01:04:21] And I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm with you.

[01:04:23] I'm with both of you. I, I think that as a rescue, a Metformin can work, but you have to have a plan to exit Metformin. You can't just stay on it for the rest of your life. Just have a plan, you know, because you, diabetes is something you gave to yourself. And I know that's a horrible thing to tell somebody.

[01:04:43] People will become very, very defensive when you said no, you gave yourself DIB. No, my doctor said it's genetic bologna. Okay. Um, if I jumped in the ocean and took a deep breath, I would drown. Someone could say, well, you're just genetically [01:05:00] predisposed not to be able to breathe water. Right? Cause fish can breathe water.

[01:05:04] So this whole idea that  genetics is nonsense. It's not genetics. It's what you've done with your genes and your, that's your thing you have control on is what you do with your genes, not the genes you have. And you clearly are eating way too many carbohydrates and stimulating insulin production way too often.

[01:05:23] And the other thing that almost every single diabetic that I've ever talked to sleeps like crap. And that is where insulin sensitivity goes bad. In one single night, they took, they took Olympic athletes when they, when the Olympics were here in some places in the Northwest, I had the doctor on the show.

[01:05:42] This was back in like 2006. Um, they took Olympic athletes and they short slept them five hours a night. And in one day of doing that, they had the blood sugar management of an 85 year old. They couldn't manage blood sugar at all. [01:06:00] And so when you, when your sleep sucks, that's the, that's job number one to not just fixing your diabetes, but fixing dementia and fixing every other disease.

[01:06:10] Cancer rates in people who don't sleep well are just as high as cancer rates in third row. Third shift workers. So get your sleep straight right there. Uh, we have another question. This one I missed by accident. I'm sorry. Uh, where is it.

[01:06:26] Jared Boynton: [01:06:26] Oh man, I'm sorry.

[01:06:29] Carl Lanore: [01:06:29] It was about a another. It was about another drug called Ola or

[01:06:36] Jared Boynton: [01:06:36] the stack

[01:06:36] Carl Lanore: [01:06:36] Orlistat.

[01:06:37] Here it is here. So Solomon Carter says, I'm late to the party. If you've already discussed this, can you talk about Orlistat.

[01:06:45] Jared Boynton: [01:06:45] Yeah, we briefly touched on it earlier. Um, but the way that Orlistat works is that it blocks fatty acid uptake in your lower intestine. So much like we were talking about, uh, the way that Metformin can retool your [01:07:00] gut and microbiotics and not absorb glucose.

[01:07:03] Um, and there are other things to do that as well. White kidney bean extract does that too. Um. But my advice is just if you, I think Orlistat is shown to have like a 10 to 15% decrease in caloric uptake from fatty acids. That's extremely minor. Uh, if you really want that 10 to 15% decrease in fatty acid uptake, just eat 10 to 15% less fat and, uh, don't worry about it coming out the other end on digestion.

[01:07:32] Carl Lanore: [01:07:32] Yeah. Um, last question we have right now and I'll get it up there. This one. Oh, did we answer this one already? How do you use it for weight loss? Yeah. Cause he asked how to use it for athletic performance. Now he's saying how do you use it for weight loss?

[01:07:48] Taeian Clark: [01:07:48] And I think we answered that. What did we answer that guy?

[01:07:53] Carl Lanore: [01:07:53] No, his earlier he asked it, he said, how do you use Metformin five athletic performance. Now he's asking how do you use it [01:08:00] for weight loss?

[01:08:01] Taeian Clark: [01:08:01] Don't

[01:08:03] Jared Boynton: [01:08:03] under the supervision of a doctor as a last resort. I mean, Metformin does have some noted benefits on appetite suppression. Does that make it worth the downsides?

[01:08:14] I don't think so.

[01:08:17] Carl Lanore: [01:08:17] Kane,

[01:08:18] Jared Boynton: [01:08:18] no. I

[01:08:20] Taeian Clark: [01:08:20] had the extremely minor benefits of it for 'em.

[01:08:24] Jared Boynton: [01:08:24] That was like,

[01:08:25] Taeian Clark: [01:08:25] you know, if you're going to use a drug with health negative, there's a million other jobs I'd rather use in my from, and basically that are actually going to be insanely more beneficial for fat loss and without even as bad of side effects.

[01:08:38] I mean, I just, there's literally, to me, there's no answer that I, I wouldn't ever, it's, it's, it's very, it's so minor in week for that too. So yeah, I just wouldn't,

[01:08:48] Carl Lanore: [01:08:48] well, there's plenty of fat people who take Metformin. In fact, Dr. Scott Connelly, I used to produce his show. Um, what [01:09:00] was it called? Body something.

[01:09:02] Anyway, I used to produce a show for Scott Connelly many, many, many years ago. And he came on the air and he told people that Metformin has the ability to sensitize fat cells, uh, a, an increased fat acquisition through some of the changes. If you eat a lot while taking Metformin, if you continue to eat that crappy diet that made you diabetic in the first place, Metformin won't change that.

[01:09:26] So my, my question to you, Danny, is, if you have to correct your diet. To take Metformin. Why not just correct your diet and not take Metformin? Right.

[01:09:41] Jared Boynton: [01:09:41] Psychological aspect for a lot of people. I mean, why? Why do people take anything that's not scientifically proven or,

[01:09:47] Carl Lanore: [01:09:47] so I watch class, I wanna I want to bring up a topic that no one is talking about.

[01:09:53] I guarantee you. So McHale black is black, is Kloni is the doctor who's done all the heavy [01:10:00] lifting on. The whole connection between M Tor a M P K and anti-aging, but his focus is rapid myosin wrap wrap myosin. I put an a in there. A lot of people get pissed off at me for doing that. I'm sorry. I'm from Brooklyn.

[01:10:13] I talk. So, um, Dr. Black is cloney and I were texting about a month ago because of a new study that he's publishing. And I said to him, Misha, um, if I take six milligrams of rapid myosin on a Monday, and I have 400 grams of high leucine, high quality protein, Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday, is it blunting M, Tor?

[01:10:38] And he came back and he said, that's a really good question that nobody has looked at. So this whole notion that you're blunting M Tor, but you're pounded down 300 and 400 grams. Of, and this may be why some people out there who take Metformin still build muscle. This may be why, because I have people who tell me now I'm at foreman [01:11:00] is good, you know?

[01:11:00] Oh, I'm, and these are, these are bodybuilder kind of guys. Yeah, they're big and strong. Well, if you're eating 300 to 400 grams of protein a day, you may not be shutting off. M tore it all. You just may think you are.

[01:11:15] Jared Boynton: [01:11:15] Yeah. Everything happens in degrees. Right? Um, I mean, a lot of these big guys who are taking Metformin are not prescribed Metformin and they're probably taking other things, so they're not prescribed as well, which dramatically increase M Tor.

[01:11:28] So everything happens in degrees, even though you're lowering him towards, to a certain extent, by taking Metformin, you are drastically, drastically, drastically increasing him tour with the other things that you're taking. So it's like a drop in the pool.

[01:11:43] Carl Lanore: [01:11:43] I mean for, for, for the guy who is leading the charge, the guy who's done all the research.

[01:11:49] That everybody, like dr  talking about when they talk about rap, myosin says, you know what? It's a great point. He said, I guess you could eat enough protein [01:12:00] and and consume enough leucine where the impetus to turn M tore on is greater than the reduction to turn it off by the the M Tor blocking drug that you're taking.

[01:12:13] That's, that's pretty interesting, isn't it? My

[01:12:16] Taeian Clark: [01:12:16] my question or that too, which is, um, where I've questioned that is that didn't, you know, what, what would these people be taking Metformin in the first place then for the infant sensitivity? You know what I mean? Like, let's say they're, you know, they're taking for the instant sensitivity fact.

[01:12:32] It's like people go to extreme lengths to not blend muscle growth that in every single area, you know, like bodybuilders or steroids cycles. They will take an AI because they're scared of lowering estrogen. You know what I mean? They'll do everything possible just to maximize muscle growth. And then, you know, they throw an em, you know, and they still want to throw an M for thinking.

[01:12:51] Um. Metformin thinking it'll help even though low, well, I guess most people don't know, but the M for lowering effects, you know, so my question always, what are you trying to get at [01:13:00] on Metformin with all these no negatives? Even if you could defeat that Anto Loring effect, let's say, still has a 10% um, lowering effect in a, you know, a bunch muscle growth, 10%.

[01:13:09] You know, it's like, what benefits are you really gaining out of this job compared to all the other massive, um, side effects regardless, right? Yeah.

[01:13:17] Carl Lanore: [01:13:17] Yeah. This here, this is another good question and a couple of them sound repetitive, but so Solomon Carter says, uh, I know variety in foods, vegetables is preached for optimal health, but for simplicity, what would be the staples to stick to daily to hit most of your daily needs?

[01:13:38] And I'm going to tell you this. And you're going to go, no, it can't be. It's any animal flesh because animals eat all those things that we need and they're super concentrated in their flesh and when we eat animal flesh, we get that stuff. If you had to do a vegan diet and get all the potassium you need, you're not going to get any B12.

[01:13:59] Yeah, you're not [01:14:00] going to get a lot of zinc. You'll get more copper than you need. You'd have to be, you'd have to start out eating in the morning and eat all the way until the time that you go to bed.

[01:14:09] Jared Boynton: [01:14:09] The one thing. I do agree with that, but the one thing that I disagree with that about is unoxidized polyunsaturated fatty acids, they're very, very hard to come by in animal flesh.

[01:14:22] I mean, you can get them from fish, um, but it's hard to get them in the amounts that you need from fish alone. So I know Tay and is a big proponent of, of seeds, nuts. Um, just have to make sure they're, they're unroasted. Um, and the benefits of on oxidized polyunsaturated fatty acids are, are huge. I mean, there've been studies as recently as 2016 that show that, um.

[01:14:49] An oxidized polyunsaturated fatty acids can completely undo the insulin resistance, garnering effects of saturated fatty acids that you consume when you consume animal needs.

[01:15:01] [01:15:00] Carl Lanore: [01:15:01] No. And I, I'm an advocate for, I call it a plant based diet. Sometimes I'll, I'll put a ribeye on, on top of a salad, and I go, this is a plant based diet, because the base of my, my meal is, is plants.

[01:15:13] No, I'm with you. Olive oil. I mean, you know, people should be using olive oil. That's it. That's a great polyunsaturated fatty acid that's been shown to have a lot of benefits right.

[01:15:25] Taeian Clark: [01:15:25] Well, it's mostly, it does a lots of benefits, but I think it's mostly, I think olive oil. This is not randomly off the top of my head.

[01:15:31] I think it's like 80% models have

[01:15:33] Jared Boynton: [01:15:33] mono saturated. Oh, really?

[01:15:35] Taeian Clark: [01:15:35] I don't go with me on

[01:15:36] Jared Boynton: [01:15:36] that though. Yeah, it is. Um, yeah, if you're looking for polyunsaturated fatty acids, um. Like Walnut oil. It's really good Sesame oil. Um, but again, you have to make sure that these are unroasted. It's very hard to find unroasted nut products in grocery stores.

[01:15:54] The people just like the taste of roasted nuts, I guess. And that completely notifies the [01:16:00] benefits of 

[01:16:01] Carl Lanore: [01:16:01] and rants rants. It AISES fats when you, when you have a roasted peanuts, roasted almonds, roasted, everything should be raw. Solomon Carter says, invite vegan gains to this feed. I don't have to, and I'll tell you why.

[01:16:14] No, no. Vegan gains isn't eating just vegetables all day long. Vegan gains, I guarantee you, is using a hemp protein powder or a pea protein powder. C vegan. What vegans failed to to tell the truth about is they, they, they create this illusion that they eating a plant based diet, but if you look at what they are eating, they eating processed.

[01:16:35] Highly concentrated sources of vegetable protein, which had been shown in numerous studies to be less digestible and less bioavailable than dairy and animal proteins and fish. By far, the PDAC scores aren't even near each other, but there are no vegans eating salad. All day long. There are no vegans eating corn all day long.

[01:16:58] There are no vegans eating nothing but [01:17:00] broccoli Spears and asparagus Spears, they're all supplementing with vitamin B 12 these are not natural diets. And, and, and all we have to do is go back in history to Australia.  one of our ancestors and Australia  was a vegan creature. But Australopithecus robustness had a big jaw, big teeth to mash, twigs and bark, and it spent all day grazing and eating all of its waking hours because in order for it to get the nutrition that it needed, it had to make its job to eat all day.

[01:17:35] They had big guts. They had little brains or threat Australia,  Africanas or grass seal. That same name came out a creature. They were the first ones to start eating meat. It stopped picking a bones and eating marrow and over Evelyn through evolution, their brains got bigger and their guts got small. Their jaws got smaller.

[01:17:53] They are direct ancestors of ours. Australia  robustness faded away. It became [01:18:00] extinct because it was a vegan and they didn't have a GNC for it to go and buy B12. No, I don't look, and again, I'm going to come full circle to say something that I started at top of the show. If you're a young person, you could literally eat shit all day long and you'd look buff and feel great, and because you are in the reproductive, a highlight of your life, your body will make up for all the stupid things you are doing with your diet until you get to the age.

[01:18:29] By guys like me where reproduction isn't supposed to be job number one. Death is job number one now. And that's when you see all the mistakes you made in your diet in the early years. Come and hit you in the face. So I don't want to know about young guys who will be good. Show me 60 year old guys that are vegan that are crushing it in the gym.

[01:18:50] Show me those guys and don't show me just one. Nah, I, I got all the respect in the world for vegan gains. Whoever he is, that's great, but not the vegan diet [01:19:00] isn't the normal human diet. I'm sorry. No one's ever going to convince me of that because I have evolutionary science on my side. I have 2.5 million frigging years on my side, not just since Instagram popped up.

[01:19:15] Taeian Clark: [01:19:15] I, um, to answer kind of his question about the variety, well, answer this question. First of all, I totally agree. My stance is a balanced diet, but meat is still the number one. Um, mainly for the, you know, you were talking about cholesterol earlier. I know we have the same views. Plus roll makes up every single cell in your body, not, you know, it is, it makes, it's needed for every single cell.

[01:19:38] It's just like, uh, the whole essential amino acid thing. Um, you know. Glide, we lacked, you know, just cause we can create amino acid, it doesn't mean we're priming, right? Surviving versus thriving. That's the same for cholesterol, just is we can send us up sensitize a tiny amount. Does it mean anything like this?

[01:19:54] Studies that showed the elderly with the highest cholesterol lived the longest.

[01:19:58] Carl Lanore: [01:19:58] Isn't that funny? No one talks about that. That's the [01:20:00] Hawaii studies. Two separate studies they did at the university of Hawaii and they showed that those were 60 years old and older. The ones with the highest cholesterol levels at the beginning of this study and maintain those high cholesterol levels.

[01:20:11] They live the longest, the ones with the lowest cholesterol levels at the beginning of, throughout the study, they died sooner. No one talks about that. And then

[01:20:18] Taeian Clark: [01:20:18] cross-reference and sit with, um, I forget w a Pacific, uh, defect. But people who have unnaturally high HDL, and it's due to a defect, though they have, they have very high and bad incidences of heart issues.

[01:20:31] Um, you know, cause me why that study was in LDL. And then it's another reason why science satins don't work. Like they just plain and simple. You know, they don't work. They don't extend your longevity. They don't, you know, they're lowering your LDL. Um, so yeah. Uh, where were we going with that way at the Friday?

[01:20:46] The food? I don't think

[01:20:48] Carl Lanore: [01:20:48] I.

[01:20:49] Taeian Clark: [01:20:49] You know, it's too hard to answer that. I think you need a variety. You know? You know, you just eat fish. You, you just eat broccoli. You know, we're talking about PFA fats, like, uh, Jared suggested Walnut oil. There you go. That's high. [01:21:00] No, I think we'll make a three. You need Omega six and there's like 80 different fatty acids.

[01:21:04] Like there's no way to answer that. You want to be the healthiest. You need a variety, plain and

[01:21:08] simple.

[01:21:08] Carl Lanore: [01:21:08] You got to eat real. You got to eat real food. And if you really want to know what the diet you should be eating is, look at your ancestors. Look at the regions that your ancestors evolved in and look at the foods that were available and don't stop.

[01:21:21] Don't look just like it since the agricultural revolution. Go back, look at the indigenous foods to those regions. Those were the foods that your genes were shaped by, and that's really where, so he went with Robin. Uh, D  I don't know what you're talking about here, so I need you to clarify. I think we should take a step back there and I'm not sure where there is then childhood obesity wouldn't be rampant if that were true, and I don't know what you're talking about.

[01:21:51] If you're talking about meat.

[01:21:54] Jared Boynton: [01:21:54] The, um, what you said about how being in your, your sexual prime prevents you [01:22:00] from having a whole bunch of health issues.

[01:22:01] Carl Lanore: [01:22:01] Oh, dude. Robin, it's not gonna, it's not gonna keep a kid from becoming a fat slob who's eating 6,000 calories a day for five years. That's not what I'm saying.

[01:22:13] But what I am saying is like a guy, you could go vegan longer when you're young because your body will hold itself together. That's what I'm saying,

[01:22:20] Jared Boynton: [01:22:20] stray obese and not die until he reaches a certain age

[01:22:24] Carl Lanore: [01:22:24] and let, and let's be honest, Jared, fat people can still have sex. That's it's only the things that impair reproductive fitness that the body is going to try to correct for you can be a fat slob and still have babies.

[01:22:39] Taeian Clark: [01:22:39] So I think also on that topic. I don't know about you guys, but like what I see kids today eat, if you guys have any, you know, relatives or stuff like that. Oh, do you know? Depends on how their family is bringing them up. But I'll see kids eat nothing. Literally nothing but junk. And I was the same way when I was growing up too.

[01:22:55] Like I survived off two liters of Cola a day. Like every day I was getting a two liter of [01:23:00] Cola I nothing but junk, not one single healthy meal out of like cereal in the morning. And you know, the all the marshmallows and crap I barely ate like. Any meat. I ate nothing but John growing up, literally. And that's what I see so many kids today.

[01:23:13] It is nothing but junk. So there's a difference between an obese kid eating literally nothing but junk. And then I kid in between. That's eating half John, right? Like it's too far. You know? No,

[01:23:24] Carl Lanore: [01:23:24] you're right. One last question then we're going to, and then I want to close with Jared telling the story more clearly about growth hormone.

[01:23:33] Actually creating a catabolic event that made you lose a lot of muscle very quickly. Cause I don't think a lot of people have ever heard this phenomenon. So, uh, Steven, uh, Holland Bennett says berberine and Metformin share a lot of the similarities. I know that berberine show significant any microbial activity against a variety of organisms, including

[01:23:51] Bacteria, viruses, fungi, protozoa, bababababa. Uh, does Metformin exhibit the quality and could this quality, [01:24:00] and could the performance enhancement experienced by other forms from Metformin be responsible from the antimicrobial side of it?

[01:24:11] Taeian Clark: [01:24:11] Well, that's what the ones that he showed 'em. Uh, that I

[01:24:15] Jared Boynton: [01:24:15] think Jared linked to you, uh,

[01:24:17] Taeian Clark: [01:24:17] that I should, uh, uh, gave him, um, the antibiotics had an even better effect than, um, I'm pretty sure I have to look at this stage.

[01:24:26] I do it again. I'm pre, it either was equal, better or better effective. Uh, Metformin actually. Yeah, it should equal

[01:24:32] Jared Boynton: [01:24:32] effect.

[01:24:34] Carl Lanore: [01:24:34] Yeah. But once you start screwing with your, your body, your microbiome, like everybody's pounding down the, the probiotics today and the prebiotics and, and people are putting out spores now that they're selling to people that take, like, we don't even know.

[01:24:53] Anything about the microbiome. We don't know if it's a remnant of our diet [01:25:00] and thus can change with our diet, which it does show the potential to do, or if it actually is causative, not corollary. It's causative of diseases. We don't know anything about it. I'm telling you I, you know, I don't speak like an expert.

[01:25:16] I speak from being a schmuck who took 900 billion CFUs of VSL number three for two years and gave myself small intestinal bacterial overgrowth that haunted me for three years. So I'm not like a genius, like listen to Carl, I'm telling you, we don't know anything about probiotics that would pound them down today.

[01:25:37] Taeian Clark: [01:25:37] That's funny. Like a lot of people are really pushing that bacteria. Um, you know, side the probiotic side of things. And I always say that too. I was like, we literally don't know a single thing. Example, one thing you is a funny thing. I always see people talk about, Oh, you got to get live probiotics live probiotics are, you know, they.

[01:25:54] Do this benefit, do that. There's a recent study that showed dead probiotics actually had more beneficial effects [01:26:00] and less of the side effects that some people can get from live probiotics. So that's another funny thing is like, so are we even eating the right probiotics? If we're looking for live probiotics, maybe we should be eating food that's been heated and killed the probiotics first day.

[01:26:13] They had more benefits and less negative side effects. And then it seemed like if you said you, Oh, you were overdosing on VCL three, which is very high strength probiotic. There's studies on people taking too much of the, the lacto bacterias, uh, probiotic eating, uh, metabolic acidosis and stuff like that.

[01:26:29] Like people are looking at it as they're just beneficial. It's like, no, there's, you know, there are beneficial effects, but it's like, where, where, what, what strains exactly. Like some of these good ones could have very bad effects. I was like, what? Strange and what a mountain, like you said, is it. You know, why are they there?

[01:26:44] That from, you know, just like you were saying, so people need to stop looking at it is just beneficial in what forms? In what way?

[01:26:53] Carl Lanore: [01:26:53] What do you think?  no, I

[01:26:55] Jared Boynton: [01:26:55] mean, I, I agree. I really, I really don't think that there's much to [01:27:00] add there. There's just so little that we know, um. It's hard to make informed decisions about, about probiotics,

[01:27:07] Carl Lanore: [01:27:07] and if you, the old reckless to make informed act like you have an informed decision.

[01:27:12] Jared Boynton: [01:27:12] Yeah. I mean, I, I'm a big proponent of prebiotics, certainly. So fermented goods, um, things like that because you're not introducing something into your gut that is outside of the scope of what would be introduced. Naturally, you're just accelerating the process, and I typically recommend those in situations where the gut microbiota has been completely decimated by course of antibiotics or something like that, and it'll just kind of get you back up to speed a little bit quicker.

[01:27:38] And

[01:27:38] Taeian Clark: [01:27:38] another thing to add to that, anything, um, I believe it was a study showed that there is no commercial probiotic right now that is shown to take actual hosts in the human gut. Once you stop the counter. So many weeks there's none that showed to take hosts. The only, the only one that I just want to take hosts are like the soil based organism.

[01:27:54] You know, you kill an animal, eat an animal, you get as bacteria or eat from the ground, but none of the [01:28:00] commercials are shown to take hose. And I wonder why that is. It's

[01:28:03] Carl Lanore: [01:28:03] interesting because, and I saw that in fact. They compared an over the counter high quality refrigerated probiotic supplement to a soup that's made in Australia with leeks and onions and flip to two other vegetables.

[01:28:21] Um. And then they looked at the stool of the people taking the supplement and the people eating the soup. And what they found was they, they measured the probiotics in the soup, the portion of soup. They were able to measure that. They, they knew the capsule. How many. You know, billion CFU is at. Then they looked at their, their feces, and they could tell which ones were actually staying in the body and which ones were just being pooped out.

[01:28:47] And almost 90% of the probiotics that were being consumed in the supplement being pooped out. But like, like only 40% of the probiotics in that leek soup was being pooped out. And [01:29:00] some people just say, well, leaks have fibers, so you're giving prebiotic, you're giving a scaffolding for them to hold onto.

[01:29:07] Maybe that's true. I'm not going to argue if that's the case. All I'm saying is your supplement doesn't have any leaks in it. It doesn't have any fiber in it. It's not food.

[01:29:16] Taeian Clark: [01:29:16] And that's, uh, that's why when somebody asks about the food, like what are the best food to eat? There's like no answer. Like every food has so many different components and components we don't even know about.

[01:29:26] Just like the prebiotics, right? You're not going to get. Everything. You want. Three foods, five foods, 10 foods, you know, you need variety for bacteria, for everything.

[01:29:36] Carl Lanore: [01:29:36] And here's an interesting point, and I'll digress for a second. It looks like there's just one more comment that we're going to get to and just, it's just somebody giving us some accolades.

[01:29:45] But, um, uh, Steven ho, uh, Holland Bennett says, you know, many obese people in my opinion, are walking around with stealth pathogens. I would argue with you that they're not still the actually producing. Uh, symptoms like neuropathy. [01:30:00] Uh, you know, we realize now that neuropathy is not from glycation because there are people who are not diabetic who have full blown peripheral neuropathy.

[01:30:09] How do you explain that? Their blood sugar, the A1C is stellar. They're there. Their blood sugar is model, and so it's not, it's from pathogens in the gut that the diet feeds and they literally poop out poisons that attack. Microvasculature. In the body and the blood vessels get shut off to the nerves. Like you sat on your foot watching a movie, you get up, your whole leg is numb, but it comes back cause the blood flow comes back.

[01:30:36] But this case, it's not coming back. So I would agree 1000% with you with the one modification, they're not stealth. They are actually at the root of a lot of autoimmune disorders we see today.

[01:30:49] Taeian Clark: [01:30:49] My opinion adding to that, well I always. Always link almost every single issue and every single disease back to his diet.

[01:30:58] So explaining that, like, you know, you said, how do [01:31:00] people get a neuropathy is you account these different B vitamins, right? A lack in this B vitamin lacking that has been shown to cause it, and then you know everything bacteria, you know what I mean? Shona affect it. Then it comes down to, again, diet like.

[01:31:14] So many different foods will have weather, antibacterial effects, or look at iron, you're overdosing on iron, iron. Um, you know, the bacteria just go crazy on it and it, iron makes a lot of bacteria, um, resistant to antibiotics too. So they make them resistant to kind of the natural foods you're eating, your natural kinda anti biotic.

[01:31:32] Um. You know, um, system. So to me it always comes down to the food. You have these pathogens because of the bad foods, have multiplying the, you know, too much of this mineral or not enough of this mineral vitamin. So it's like, you know, whether it's a deficiency or too much of this or about you, to me it always comes back down to diet, whether it's pathogen or deficiency related.

[01:31:52] Carl Lanore: [01:31:52] I agree 1000%. I, I . If you could trace just about, I mean, unless you are born with one leg and it has [01:32:00] nothing to do with your diet, what, I mean, it's like . Yeah, yeah. But, but you know, that's a good point actually. But you know, the rest of it, like all these acquired disorders that we have today, 99% of them could be tracked back to your gut and your diet.

[01:32:14] Um, last thing before we, uh, drew holiday says, thank you so much for this information. Of course, and thank you for tuning in. So now here's an interesting story I've never heard about before. I've used growth hormone today. I use growth hormone, secreted dogs. Uh, I use CJC 1295 and a GHR P six a couple of times a day.

[01:32:34] Uh, I've never heard anything about growth hormone making someone lose muscle, but apparently it can tell the story.

[01:32:42] Jared Boynton: [01:32:42] Yeah. Yeah. So, um, the spec, I don't know when, when was this tan? This is what actually. Ran me and detain in the first place cause he had experienced something similar. Am I mistaken?

[01:32:52] Taeian Clark: [01:32:52] Yeah.

[01:32:53] Yeah.

[01:32:54] Jared Boynton: [01:32:54] So, um, I mean, it was a, it was at a point where I was prepping for a show back in I think like [01:33:00] 2016 or 2017. Um, and the coach that I had at the time, um, I had asked him, Hey, I've got all this growth hormone. Can I just use all of it? He was like, sure, let's do, uh, let's do eight. I use a day. Um, and so we're, we're doing a.

[01:33:15] Four I use day, twice a day, and everything is going normal for the first couple of weeks. But as you know, um, growth hormone and insulin resistance are inversely related. Well, insulin sensitivity and growth hormone are inversely related. So as your body's growth hormone, um. I guess the state of homeostasis for growth, the growth hormone, the amount that you've got, your serum level of growth hormone, as that stays elevated for longer and longer amount of time, your insulin sensitivity dips lower and lower.

[01:33:50] And so it got to the point where I was losing, um, and this was not good weight, about seven pounds a week, a pound a day of what was essentially all muscle mass. I was very lean at [01:34:00] that point to begin with. I didn't have anything to lose except for muscle. And, uh. Essentially what was happening is the nutrients that I was eating, all the food that I was eating was going straight through me.

[01:34:10] It wasn't able to be showed into the cells because the insulin resistance was so high and it was caused by that growth hormone, and we thought, um, me and my coach at the time, we thought maybe it was a thyroid thing. Maybe it was a, a freak thyroid storm

[01:34:25] Carl Lanore: [01:34:25] because high, high growth hormone will disrupt your thyroid.

[01:34:28] Yeah, yeah. Oh. You're frozen, take

[01:34:32] Jared Boynton: [01:34:32] what was high. TSH was high. Um, so we went to the endocrinologist and the endocrinologist was like, your, your growth hormone is just off the charts. And that, I mean, that's, I mean, obviously, um, at least that gave me the, that gave me the peace of mind knowing that what I had was real, wasn't, yeah.

[01:34:50] Um. But yeah, I mean, that was the cause. So as soon as I dropped the growth hormone, um, I started putting that weight back on again. But it was, it was just crazy. It's not something that we even thought [01:35:00] about. Um, I mean, the, the coach that I was with didn't want to utilize insulin during, uh, a show prep cause didn't want to, um, impede fatty acid oxidation.

[01:35:11] But he asked mobilization and oxidation, but it turns out that was.  not the way you go about it. I mean, the, the proper way to go about it would be to utilize maybe one to two I use of growth hormone, um, before fasted cardio or something like that to facilitate fatty acid release and just keep it at that.

[01:35:31] Carl Lanore: [01:35:31] I saw, I stopped, I stopped using growth hormone. I used growth hormone from 2000 and um, four. Till probably a couple of years ago, maybe, maybe a year and a half ago. Uh, and, and you know, I, I had good results, but I was only using two. I use five days a week. I was using the, a forum, you know, anti-aging model,

[01:35:51] Taeian Clark: [01:35:51] but

[01:35:53] Carl Lanore: [01:35:53] I stopped using it for two reasons.

[01:35:55] Uh, first of all, I found this study on [01:36:00] a idiopathic short stature and children that showed that when you gave a dose every day, the same dose every day. The growth hormone was far less effective. So they give a a child 25 I use a week, uh, for growth. If they divided that into a seven day scheme, you know, where you getting three, three, whatever I use a day, whatever it turns out to be.

[01:36:27] Uh. Versus just giving two bolus shots, you know, 20 1212 and a half, 12 and a half, Monday and Thursday. It's just switch it up. Wednesday and Friday. The children who got the irregular dosing, even though they were getting the same total dose per week, so a 40% greater increase in growth from the same dose.

[01:36:48] So then I thought, ah, first thing I got to do is shake it up. So I started doing that. I, you know, I started playing with that, but then I started thinking about. The normal relationship of growth hormone to the [01:37:00] body biologically is a pulse that pops and disappears and it becomes all these metabolites when it hits the liver, the liver, and when you inject to our use of growth hormone, five I use of growth won't under the skin and sodium chloride solution, injectable water, whatever you are creating a Depot that takes, even if it takes.

[01:37:22] 10 minutes for that depo to deliver into the bloodstream. That is completely the antithesis of the way growth hormone hits the bloodstream. It doesn't bleed into the drug blood stream for 10 minutes. It hits for a nano millisecond, pulses, pulses a couple times in men. It pulses once every three hours.

[01:37:41] And women, it's once every one and a half hours and it's gone. And so there's a lot of problems with the way we use growth hormone today. So that's why I started using Socrata goggles cause I thought, okay. Let my pituitary do what it wants to do. Let's see how this goes, and I'm having much better results using Socratic OGs [01:38:00] today than I ever did with straight growth.

[01:38:01] Frank growth hormone injections.

[01:38:03] Taeian Clark: [01:38:03] It's funny you say that because I didn't think I already told you this. Like Jared started watching a bunch of more of your episodes and he said almost basically everything you're saying is in mind would I say to that same growth hormone study, seeing the same thing,

[01:38:15] Jared Boynton: [01:38:15] and

[01:38:15] Taeian Clark: [01:38:15] it also showed that.

[01:38:17] Cause you know, you have a receptor for every single hormone and everything in your body. The growth hormone receptors actually became, uh, resistant to growth hormone dosing it every day as well. Um, I think when Jared came across me, I can't remember if he read my article or I post or I. Posted a reply to him.

[01:38:33] I can't remember about his little GH incident, but a, I have a big GH article on this too, about you have a whole pull up. Fumble is, um, yeah,

[01:38:41] Carl Lanore: [01:38:41] yeah. Um, and

[01:38:42] Taeian Clark: [01:38:42] I posted all the studies, um, you know, linking that to that, because even Dave Palumbo said, you know, that's when he started to go down was from mega dosing, GH, no insulin.

[01:38:51] And you look at, you look at insulin resistance. These guys are taking eight UI, 10 UI, 10 12 UI of G H and you know, they get massive insulin resistance. [01:39:00] Insulin resistance causes nerve damage. And you look at diabetic diabetic studies, you know, nerve damage in the limbs. What happens there is a muscle severely at trophy.

[01:39:08] They lose, they lose proper contraction in function of the muscle. And that's why you seen all those guys. They lose their function in the gut and in the arms. What happens when you lose nerve function in the gut, your transverse abdominal, which keeps all that in, and even your intestinal contraction, you know, they eat their food there.

[01:39:25] All those guys, you know, they just blow it up their tests and dr attracted their transverse abdominal, which. She keeps everything in. It's loose, it's light and everything out there. Arms, limbs, shrinking from the neuropathy. Um, you know, I feel like that. The, the, and that's what Dave Palumbo even said. He said the second he introduced insulin, he realized, Oh crap.

[01:39:41] You know, that was my issue because even he said, when he introduced , sorry, G H in a lot of probiotic goes, are builders have said this, they introduced GH and they notice they kind of gained weight anymore. They're like, I'm, you know, I'm eating a meeting, a meeting, three extra meals, and I still can't gain weight.

[01:39:55] You know? Insulin resistance. So that's why, you know, get so bad that people actually start [01:40:00] losing when they too. Right.

[01:40:00] Carl Lanore: [01:40:00] Right. Last question. We'll put it up there and then literally have to pull the plug. Drew holiday, it asks me questions about MK six 77. I don't like it by myself. Uh,  does it increase fasting glucose levels even when Metformin was administered as well?

[01:40:14] Could it,

[01:40:16] Jared Boynton: [01:40:16] well, let's, let's touch on how much it increases your fasting glucose level first, because I think that's, that's key part of answering this question, and it can very, very significantly increase your fasting glucose levels. I don't know if there's a, I don't know if there's like a one to one equivalent that I can give you as to like six, seven, eight I use of growth hormone compared to MK six 77 because it is a secretagogue.

[01:40:39] It does cause pulses. Um. And so it's hard to quantify that, but it will very significantly increase your fasting glucose levels. Um, now the question is, what are you trying to get out of MK? Six 77 probably fat loss, probably muscle growth. What does [01:41:00] Metformin do? Decreases muscle growth. So. Why? Why would you add Metformin on top of something that is already causing a problem to begin with?

[01:41:13] Carl Lanore: [01:41:13] do you think of MK six 77.

[01:41:15] Taeian Clark: [01:41:15] Uh, so I know Jerry knows this. He's, you know, a lot of the guys on my call visa and Ivy said as well. Um, I've had guys take the next day and had their blood sugar levels be literal diabetic levels, uh, like 127. Um, and G their blood glucose levels are very the next day. Um, same with me.

[01:41:32] At one point when I was taking it, I was actually upwards 300 IQ insulin a day. That was to keep me in a normal range.

[01:41:40] Jared Boynton: [01:41:40] Um.

[01:41:41] Taeian Clark: [01:41:41] Us. I was going to say, Oh yeah. So a lot of people take MK six, seven, seven for muscle growth. I like the GH study show when they actually did muscle biopsies. Um, there was even at 27 IQ a day, and you know, they had athletes use it.

[01:41:56] So people are working out. There's never been, uh, over 40 years a muscle [01:42:00] biopsy that showed any mutation growth. The only thing it shows is lean body mass increase, which is from the water retention. Um, so if you're using it for muscle growth, it's not going to cause a directly, the only way it's going to cause it to be a water retention, which is antibolic in itself, and increase appetite.

[01:42:13] And then for fat loss. Another thing I always, um. Post studies on, there's not a single study which showed empty six seven seven cause fat loss, like human growth hormone does. Every single study that's checked, fat loss actually showed an increase in fat gain with MK six 77 so it's, it's not, it's comparable to GH, but not.

[01:42:32] Not fully, because I think longterm studies, they showed the GH was very bare, barely elevated, but the IGF one was really elevated, so it's not really comparable to G. H.

[01:42:42] Carl Lanore: [01:42:42] the other problem with MK six 77 is that, I'm sorry, did I cut you off guard? No, I'm

[01:42:46] Jared Boynton: [01:42:46] probably gonna say the same thing that you're going to say is that it's, it's an imperfect drug in that it's a very strong grillin agonist, so your appetite is just going to be through the roof.

[01:42:56] I'm sure that

[01:42:57] Carl Lanore: [01:42:57] your appetite is through the roof. Okay, [01:43:00] so social grill and agonists have a couple of. Interesting. Um, affects, you get a, a great surgeon appetite. You become lethargic, makes you tired, you feel they're just lethargic all the time. But more importantly, it shifts. Uh, it shifts, uh, uh, ma, uh, macronutrient partitioning towards fat.

[01:43:23] Because when you, when your body is that hungry, even though it doesn't know you shot something in your belly or you took an eyedropper full of something, it thinks that you're probably a bad Hunter. You don't find food, man, if we get this hungry, we got to make fat. Cause this guy isn't doing a good job.

[01:43:39] Obviously. Look how hungry we are right now. And there's, there's a, there's a good, several good studies out there that show an increase and an adipose. A new adipose creation when using grill and agonists in general, which MK six 87 is a powerful one. Now, why is MK six 77 made by Merck in the first place?

[01:43:59] Because no [01:44:00] one wants to inject growth hormone. So they figure if we can create an orally active ghrelin agonist, we can give it to people. And it'll actually be long term active. So you take it once a day, 2,500 milligrams, or you could do it twice a day if you want, I guess, but you only have taken once a day.

[01:44:17] Well, do you know how they shut your testosterone off when you have prostate cancer? They do something called androgen deprivation therapy, but you know how they deprive you of androgens? They force your testicles to work so freaking hard. They stop working. That's how ADT works. So, uh, what, what they do at ADT is they give you long acting gonadotrope and releasing hormone.

[01:44:45] Uh, drugs that put the foot on the gas pedal and your testosterone goes through the roof for about three days, and then all of a sudden the pituitary goes, we can't make luteinizing hormone fast enough. So we're out. And then once that happens, the testes go, [01:45:00] no one's telling us to make testosterone anymore.

[01:45:02] And they are so. Oh, I'm sorry. The, this is in, in a, in an ADT. The same thing happens when you use MK six 77 when you put your foot on the gas pedal of the pituitary to literally produce growth hormone constantly, all day long. Eventually it caves in, and this was seen in two different studies on an elderly people that the initial rise in growth hormone, but more so IGF one, as you pointed out.

[01:45:30] But around six weeks in, everybody's production dropped. This is why this is not a drug today. This is why it's not offered as a drug because it failed. It failed because. It crashed the pituitary. And you know what a side effect of this whole phenomenon was? 30% of the elderly people had a drop out of the study because of severe anxiety.

[01:45:54] Their blood sugar levels will all over the fricking place, all the way up here, that [01:46:00] all the way down here and it all. And that's, they had such bad anxiety like, no, I can't take this stuff anymore. I just don't know why anybody takes it except. They, uh, don't want to inject real growth hormone or use accreta gods because MK six 77 is a failed drug.

[01:46:15] It's a failed drug.

[01:46:17] Taeian Clark: [01:46:17] It's funny you say that because like all the

[01:46:19] Jared Boynton: [01:46:19] people I know

[01:46:20] Taeian Clark: [01:46:20] that have used it, uh, use it as well. And my own experience, the side effects last for about six, eight weeks or so, like from everything you need for an oral drug, right? You stop it. And. You realize like, Oh, well, I'm still experience with majority of these side effects though,

[01:46:36] Carl Lanore: [01:46:36] so let's put these websites back up again.

[01:46:38] Jared website is extra life project. So you're talking about extending life, I guess, right?

[01:46:46] Jared Boynton: [01:46:46] Yeah. Well, it's really about undoing all the damage that bodybuilders have done to themselves. So, I mean, I spoke to you briefly before and Tane has helped me out astronomically. This is undoing all the hyperandrogenism

[01:47:00] [01:46:59] I caused to myself through the pursuit of trying to be, you know, the biggest, leanest guy out there. Um, so that's, that's what it's all about.

[01:47:09] Carl Lanore: [01:47:09] Okay. And then Tane, uh, what can people find on your website? And it's T a E I a n.com. What can people find there?

[01:47:20] Taeian Clark: [01:47:20] Um, overall, overall health is the best way to explain it, but you know, I've attracted a immense amount of bodybuilders because, you know.

[01:47:28] My overall health is, um, you know, it's, you know, a lot of body builders come to it for let, you know, I talk about studies on heart disease, not just preventing heart disease, but reversing heart disease. You know, steroids probably one of your biggest scares, I'd say main focus. A lot of it's digestion too.

[01:47:43] A lot of people come to me with low appetite, eat constipation. Um, and then. Overall, they just hold that dietary and how they, you know, focusing on what minerals you're missing for optimal muscle growth. What, what fats, what's, you know, what are you missing for ultimate musculoskeletal fat loss over a how them hair loss.

[01:47:59] You see lots of [01:48:00] hair loss. Um, testimony is a hassle. IBS, health, hair, just like overall overall health. Sum it up. If you autoimmune cases, I'm into remission and stuff like that, like Hashimoto's and crones. It's also a very overall health.

[01:48:17] Carl Lanore: [01:48:17] Are you guys into peptides at all?

[01:48:21] Jared Boynton: [01:48:21] I've used quite a few peptides.

[01:48:22] Um, I probably have more experience with hepatitis than tan does. Uh, I've used almost everything out there with the exception of some very fringe ones.

[01:48:31] Carl Lanore: [01:48:31] Yeah,

[01:48:31] Taeian Clark: [01:48:31] I've only, um, uh, the healing peptides, you know, VPC and stuff like that. And then, um, a fair, a fair bit of research into the GH, secrete a logs, like, you know, G HRP and an IPAM and stuff like that.

[01:48:44] But that's kind of where I, um, you know, there, and then, you know, a few of the healing peptides is kind of where I just left off.

[01:48:52] Carl Lanore: [01:48:52] I, I do a show called, uh, the pep talk where we have people from international peptide society come on the show and talk about different peptides. And since you [01:49:00] guys are both working with people who need help with gut problems.

[01:49:04] There's a peptide I talk about I did last year called LL three seven and also thymus and alpha one and people who have autoimmune disorders and gut problems, they really benefit from that, especially from the angle that, uh, one of the listeners, viewers said about pathogens. A LL three seven is the only human Cathal Sedat in, which is actually our antimicrobial system.

[01:49:29] And so it can help people get rid of CBO. It could help people get rid of a variety of different gut problems and very effectively. It's good stuff. So anyway, look, did we miss anything?

[01:49:42] Jared Boynton: [01:49:42] No, I don't think so. We're coming right up on the hour here.

[01:49:45] Carl Lanore: [01:49:45] Yeah, yeah, we are. And it's all over. It's all over. Today is the first show of the new year.

[01:49:50] It's in the books. I thank everybody for watching and participating. More people should get on Facebook live and ask questions. Uh, cause it helps me to my job. I don't have to ask questions [01:50:00] and I just post your question, so there you go. All right guys. Thanks a lot for being here today.

[01:50:03] Jared Boynton: [01:50:03] Thanks for having us on Carl.

[01:50:05] Carl Lanore: [01:50:05] Okay, I will talk to everybody tomorrow. Tomorrow is the blueprint power hour with coach Rob register. Don't forget that. We'll see you .