[00:00:00] Carl Lanore: [00:00:00] hey, Hey, welcome back to another episode of super Yuma radio. Today is December 7th, 2020. And, uh, we're going to end this year at a bang. Uh, the 19th of this month, we have my 15 year anniversary show. It's going to be chock full of fun stuff. Uh, I decided the anniversary shows going to be more about the audience than the guests.

[00:00:21] We all gonna have some, uh, special guests join us. Some people who were there at the beginning of the show. Uh, actually my first guest today is gonna spend a little time with us for the anniversary show. That's December 19th. Um, so. We are going to do that. I've been asking people to email me at, on This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it., which is two things, your full name, so we can get it right.

[00:00:46] And the year you first started listening to super Yuma radio, and you may have to estimate some people forgot. They had then October, 2007 to 2008. That's fine. Uh, but if you do that, you will be immortalized in the anniversary show. And it [00:01:00] means a lot to me, uh, before we get started, of course I have to thank.

[00:01:04] My title sponsor, which I'm proud to have as a title sponsor. And that is legendary foods. The website is SHR network.biz/legendary. The code is S H R 10 for 10% off everything in anything there, they have the best nut butters, the best seasoned almonds and a dessert. That's taking the nation by storm. We have people trying to order in other countries and they're not shipping yet.

[00:01:33] And that is the tasty pastry. They just introduced two new flavors, blueberry and hot fudge sundae, both have zero sugar and 15 grams of high quality, high leucine protein, and not a ton of fiber. I gotta be honest with you. I'm so excited that they didn't go. They could have put 15 grams of fiber in here if they wanted to.

[00:01:55] They didn't. And I'm happy about that. Um, so check them [00:02:00] out. Use the code. S H R. 10 go to SHR network.biz/legendary and, uh, show them some love because they help make this show, uh, possible. And now, without further delay, let me get my, my guest and good friend on the show here. And that is coach Wade Johnson.

[00:02:22] Uh, and uh, there we go. How are you doing brother?

[00:02:27] Coach Wade Johnson: [00:02:27] I'm great. It's good to be with you. It's been

[00:02:30] Carl Lanore: [00:02:30] a while. So wait, now we're just talking off the air. So, so Wade had brought his model lift down to Louisville, uh, for a competition just goes to show you how much this guy loves the sport. Like he would, I mean, taking a monolift from Tennessee to Kentucky is not a simple thing and he brought it here.

[00:02:49] To our friend, Jeff Ruiz, Jim, uh, when we had a powerlifting competition there and he judged and he brought the monolift just so that people could [00:03:00] compete. Uh, he didn't get money for it. He just did it because he wanted more people to find a love of, of powerlifting and strength, uh, more than anything else.

[00:03:09] And that's going to be our discussion today. We were just talking off the air, you know, 15 years ago, he and I was standing outside of Jeff Rui gym, and I said, I'm going to start doing this radio show. And I don't think anybody realized, like, you know, yeah. Okay. That was good. But you back then, you had, you had long hair, black hair and you had your beard braided.

[00:03:33] Like Lou Albano, remember the red braided with beads in it. And you just looked like a wild man back then. And then, and Wes was there. Wes was probably 16 years old. I want to say 17 years old.

[00:03:46] Coach Wade Johnson: [00:03:46] Couldn't have been it give or take, you know, he, he was in the air. Probably 15, 16, I don't think quite 17. He's probably 15, 16 years old.

[00:03:57] Carl Lanore: [00:03:57] And, and, and back then he had like a 700 pound squat. [00:04:00] Remember that? What was he saying? Well,

[00:04:01] Coach Wade Johnson: [00:04:01] yeah, cause he was, he, uh, when he was 17 is when he squatted eight Oh five. So it was, it was prior to them and, uh, and that's when I was, I was a pretty big man back then, I was pretty big. Yeah. But that was probably during the era, those years up until.

[00:04:18] I was about 45 or 46 years old. So we're looking at, uh, eight, nine years ago, what was when I was physically the biggest that I was and likewise for him as well.

[00:04:30] Carl Lanore: [00:04:30] So for those people, there's a lot of new covers to this show. And, um, and for those people who don't know. Uh, who you are while you're a coach today, you are both a Olympic lifting and powerlifting coach.

[00:04:42] And you have the ogre compound in what part of Tennessee is it? Is it it's

[00:04:47] Coach Wade Johnson: [00:04:47] melt Juliet mountain Juliet. It's really close to the Nashville airport on probably 15, 20 minutes away from downtown Nashville.

[00:04:55] Carl Lanore: [00:04:55] Now what a lot of people probably don't know about you, and I just want to throw this in there because you're a multi-faceted [00:05:00] person.

[00:05:00] You, you are, uh, you're a musician. You work for the Philharmonic there don't you. I,

[00:05:06] Coach Wade Johnson: [00:05:06] I worked for the Nashville symphony. I do facilities type work there. And, uh, so many, many years ago to be as brief as I can. I was a traveling musician and I had been published as a songwriter and have a background in playing orchestra type instruments and, you know, doing, doing Broadway thespian type stuff.

[00:05:28] And, um,

[00:05:30] Carl Lanore: [00:05:30] So I don't think, I don't think most people would put, like, I would've won a bet if I were to like, ask, well, what do you think coach does for a living? You know, so

[00:05:41] Coach Wade Johnson: [00:05:41] to make money, you know, in those days when I was a musician, you know, you weren't, I've framed houses, I've worked at a plumbing warehouse, you learn how to do, you know, fix it type stuff.

[00:05:54] Uh, which has saved me tons of time and money, you know, having my own gym. You know, knowing how to wire [00:06:00] lighting in and our things of that nature do plumbing, repairs and all those types of things. So you do those things when you're a musician where you can make money and, uh, and survive. And, um, you know, that led me into doing facilities work when I was in Houston for a few years.

[00:06:19] And which led me to where I am. Uh, we, we were talking off air. When you started the show, I was working for the performing arts center downtown, and then a couple of years later moved to where I am now at the Nashville symphony, so that, you know, I had done, you know, played music, travel as a guitar tech.

[00:06:39] Uh, I have been published, you know, as a songwriter, that sort of thing. And no, almost no one ever thinks that that's something that's from my past.

[00:06:47] Carl Lanore: [00:06:47] Do the people, uh, at the symphony know about your, uh, passion for powerlifting?

[00:06:54] Coach Wade Johnson: [00:06:54] As a matter of fact, uh, the, the orchestra, I don't know, a bunch of them by name.

[00:06:59] They see [00:07:00] me. Uh, roll right now. Everybody's, you know, at home except for, for a chosen few, but they're always surprised. Uh, I got a message from one of the, one of the musicians that just shows you kind of lead this double life. You're this big non assuming guy at work that fixes everything under the sun and takes care of all these things, you know?

[00:07:23] And then you find out that you travel all over the planet. You know, doing string sports, you know, so, uh, they're, they're certainly aware of it and excuse me, my supervisor is also a great friend of mine. He and I have worked together for over 25 years at different jobs. We worked at T pack together and we did some production work, uh, prior to my tea pack days.

[00:07:47] And, uh, he and another, another one of the guys that both of us have worked for for a number of years, the ref lights that I used for years and years. Um, those two built for me. Oh, wow. And so, [00:08:00] so they're, they're keenly aware. Um, Eric, my boss, uh, when we built the first edition about roughly 10 years ago where we were, we currently squat and I got together one Friday evening and rewired the lighting where we had, you know, enough light to, you know, Usually when they, when they dry something in like that, like a garage they'll do the minimal amount.

[00:08:24] It was like four light fixtures, which was not going to be adequate. So he and I wired in, on overhead circuit for fans and stuff like that, and nine lights. So they're invested so to speak. So, so the answer to that is the people that I work with day in and day out are very aware of when I did a. Last year when I did IPF bench worlds and then IPF masters worlds, you know, they tuned in, on the live stream and stuff like that.

[00:08:54] So that, so they are,

[00:08:55] Carl Lanore: [00:08:55] so you've traveled all over the world, competing both in powerlifting and [00:09:00] Olympic lifting for those people who don't know who you are, talk about your competitive years, best squat, best deadlift, best bench press.

[00:09:08] Coach Wade Johnson: [00:09:08] Um, the best squad I ever did in competition was 1,040, um, uh, both bench and dead lift were 700 pounds, um, Olympic lifting, uh, my best snatch.

[00:09:24] Was, uh, two, two 54 and I clean and jerk three Oh three. Right. And, uh, you know, that was

[00:09:31] Carl Lanore: [00:09:31] done. So you didn't, you didn't get doing Olympic lifting until the past probably five years. That's kind of late.

[00:09:37] Coach Wade Johnson: [00:09:37] Well, I, uh, I had always trained it and then probably about 10 years ago, I trained it consistently. And, um, I had competed and was getting ready to do pan AM's and some life changes came in to you're aware of and change that.

[00:09:55] And then when Melissa and I got together, some of our dates when she lived in [00:10:00] Cincinnati, we would, I had friends in Cincinnati, both in Olympic lifting and in power lifting. So I hooked her up with those folks and I, you know, she and I would train and Olympic lifting is more of our, as a, as a date. So it was later in life, uh, 2015, uh, I competed in one masters nationals.

[00:10:21] I got silver at masters pan hymns. And then later that year, your world cup and Olympic weight lifting. Right? So in my big, I guess my claim to fame is because we do strong men here as well is two years ago. I competed in masters. Strong men nationals and I was able to get the win there.

[00:10:43] Carl Lanore: [00:10:43] Wow. So that's impressive.

[00:10:45] Coach Wade Johnson: [00:10:45] Yeah. So it's been, it's, it's, it's one of those things, but you know, you work your entire career to, you know, to break that plateau a thousand pounds squat and did it drug-free, you know, it was one of those things that I was very adamant. I, you know, [00:11:00] I, whatever other people want to do is it's up to them, but I made the choice, you know, to, to remain drug-free and, uh, I coach children.

[00:11:09] I coach, you know, young kids and adult, you know, young adults. And it's just one of those things that I just never wanted that to be part of who I was. That's not an indictment on anybody else. It's just what I chose. Right. And, uh, so in the past five years to, to win, you know, an international meet a national meet and Olympic weightlifting to win a world championships.

[00:11:33] And power lifting and then winning nationals and strong man, all in the, all in a span of four years was, was a huge help.

[00:11:42] Carl Lanore: [00:11:42] And how old are you? How old are you now? Wait,

[00:11:44] Coach Wade Johnson: [00:11:44] I'm 55.

[00:11:45] Carl Lanore: [00:11:45] Yeah. So you weren't a spring chicken either at that point in time, but I think that want to just edit pizza to the banned substances list.

[00:11:53] So you may not

[00:11:54] Coach Wade Johnson: [00:11:54] prefer it. I wouldn't know. I will tell you what's interesting is once, once [00:12:00] I started that pathway, Um, to, to become an IPF competitor, uh, they came to my house twice and did a full water panel on me, or they, you know, they had an agent come. I had to pee in a cup for them and they, you know, and they tested me.

[00:12:16] So I, if, if bourbon and pizza had been on the pamphlet litmus test.

[00:12:24] Carl Lanore: [00:12:24] So now, now with now with the discussion that we want to have, so bodybuilding. And powerlifting or pure strength training. They seem to occupy the same space today. We have a lot of people who consider themselves more bodybuilders, but they're also trying to become as strong as they possibly can.

[00:12:51] And the reason why I wanted to do this show with you is because it takes a, almost more discipline to train purely for [00:13:00] strength. Than it does to train this just power building. If you want to call it to coin a term that has been used before, and it's actually harder to make the decision to say, I just want to be as strong as I can because.

[00:13:20] It it's a completely different way of training. Talk about it. I mean, you, you, you have been purely strength driven. You've never said I want to have 21 inch upper arms. You probably do by now, but I mean, those were never your goals. It was just to move the weight. Right.

[00:13:36] Coach Wade Johnson: [00:13:36] Yeah, I never remember. In the early days of the internet, you'd have all these chat rooms where people, you know, would get together and discuss ideas.

[00:13:45] And, and one of the quick things, when you became part of a new chat room, is they wanted to know your stats. Well, for me, my stats as a power lifter, or were the three lifts and what my best total were, but they wanted to know the size of my quads, the size of my [00:14:00] chest, the size of my upper arms and. Unless I was getting measured for a shirt, you know, you know, people, people ask me all the time, especially probably, you know, cause because by and large, most of my career, I've either been what they call a three Oh eight or a super heavyweight.

[00:14:17] And honestly, the only time I would ever get on a scale is when I weighed in and to meet. I mean, I was a super heavy, so I wasn't having to regulate anything, but, uh, I think one of the things that we have found is what happens between someone that is trained for strength and say a bodybuilder is the types of volumes.

[00:14:38] And I'll give you a classic example. Recently, I have a group of just off the top of my head, probably there's about eight of them that are strong man competitors. And one of the things that universally, all of them have said when they received their programming. You know, when they look at it on paper, they're like, hi, this is so little [00:15:00] volume in comparison to what you know, I have done in the past.

[00:15:03] And so one of the quickest questions I asked, I said, how, how injury free are you? Well, I have this, this, this, so they start rattling off a list. And then my second question is how well do you recover? And they felt like. What they were, you know, if they didn't go into the gym and completely destroy themselves, right.

[00:15:26] You know, where we're, you know, they are barely making it out of the gym, then they weren't training hard. And I go, well, there's a difference in training hard and training smart. And when you're a bodybuilder, I mean, I'm not in, I'm not opposed to the. Through the term power builder. I get what they're after, but I think it's one of those things when you're training for strength.

[00:15:48] And I, and I've told you this in the past where you, you really, when you're focused on strength as the priority, you have to accept the physique that the training is going to give you. You're not going to [00:16:00] do this type of training and look like an Arnold or a Lou Ferrigno. Now. You can give me a name of a handful of people, you know, where people always take the 1% to argue a point.

[00:16:13] There's always those exceptions, but those are few and far between, and that's why I use the term 1% or it's, it's like, you know, comparing some of my lifters, like a Jennifer Milliken to the rest of the powerlifting community. Right. It's you were comparing cantaloupes to cranberries. It's not even in this thing real right.

[00:16:32] And so. You know, it takes a lot of discipline because you're going to feel like you're not doing enough work and you have to look at the tonnage of weight and movements that we're doing, not on a daily basis or even a weekly basis. It's what you do over the entirety of a training cycle and how that affects your recovery.

[00:16:54] Recovery from strength. Training is a, is a very different animal, you know, versus say [00:17:00] bodybuilding training. And even for the guys that they call themselves power builders, I think, I think the, the ability to recover is significantly different. So I think, I think that's kind of the biggest, you know, where you see the divide,

[00:17:14] Carl Lanore: [00:17:14] right.

[00:17:14] And I, and I agree with you and it, and it takes a lot of discipline and courage to make the decision to get in the one boat to say, okay, I am exclusively interested in getting stronger. And that is I'm want to do everything that would maximize that outcome. And when you look at that as the exclusive goal, you realize that most of us are going into the gym and wasting a lot of time, but more important, only working against achieving that goal.

[00:17:49] Like you just said. So, you know, you see people post pictures. I crushed my legs today. You know, imagine, imagine if you're a brick, Mason and [00:18:00] you're on your way to work, you got to work eight hours and you know, the outcome is to build this wall. You don't go in and go, how can I make this job the hardest I can make it?

[00:18:09] Like I know, I know I'll, I'll load all the bricks on my shoulders and I'll walk them up. No, you go, no, I got to take five bricks at a time. I gotta do the work. I gotta, I gotta focus on the goal. The goal is to build the wall. If the goal is to get stronger, And someone said to you, you're in the gym too frequently and, or you're doing too high, a volume of work and you go, I don't care.

[00:18:33] I'm going to keep doing this. Then your goal isn't to get stronger. Just admit, it looked like admitted to yourself, say, you know what? I, I really am not here to get stronger. I'm here to work hard and exhaust myself. Then just say that. But if your goal is to get stronger and you have a guy like you, who's done it for a lifetime now and continue to do it.

[00:18:55] You have to say to yourself, huh? Maybe this guy knows something I should be paying [00:19:00] attention to.

[00:19:01] Coach Wade Johnson: [00:19:01] Well, it's, it is a tough thing. And there's, I have, I've got some stories that I can brief. I've got, uh, of this young kid that, uh, lives, uh, he's probably 30 miles away and he competed this weekend and, um, I was trying to tell him, Hey, look, look at the volume that you used to train with.

[00:19:20] Look at how we've been able to increase our strength. This is the first training cycle that I've coached him. And I, you got to understand when you go into a competition, once you squat, that's going to have a little bit of a detrimental effect on your bench press because of how, the way this meets runs.

[00:19:36] This was going to be a very fast, you know, high tempo. You know, type of meat because it runs in sessions. We're going to be done. You'll be done in three to three and a half hours and he wanted art. You know, he kept, he kept going. Well, I think, I think, I think, I think, and I said, well, you know, we're, we're gonna let him, I know he can get his opener.

[00:19:55] Let me, let him make that call. Then on the second one. And when he struggled, [00:20:00] you know, he kind of came to me and I said, now, do you see, you know, where your energy levels are and how that can have an effect? And he, uh, you know, you have to experience that. And so how that also coincides is I have a young lady that I coach that does both power lifting and strong man.

[00:20:19] As a matter of fact, she competed this weekend and then we will be back in Kentucky, Sunday and Frankfurt for beasts of the bluegrass, which will be a. A strong man contest that we have, uh, some, some athletes competing in and one of the things she doesn't train here. Full-time I program for her. I coach her, but she trains in another gym and I will see, uh, Instagram post where she's done her training.

[00:20:43] And then she's doing sets after set of dips and things of that nature. And I've told her, I said, look, if you want to look a certain way, I completely understand, and I understand why and how that is important to you. And that's okay. But when you ask [00:21:00] me why didn't these things happen, I'm going to always point to, did you do the programming the way that I set it up for you?

[00:21:09] And it doesn't, it doesn't mean because I am right and you're wrong. It's Hey, this is, this is structured to maximize the training and get you the result that you said that you wanted when you start freelancing and start doing muscle spinning, because you don't feel like you got a pump and your triceps and your packs.

[00:21:27] These are the things that are going to take place because she, she even said to me yesterday, she goes, even with the de-load am I just did not feel like I was arrested. Uh, did you just, you Jerome question. And so, you know, now that takes time, it's not, it's not just being dedicated to it. You have to learn that.

[00:21:47] I can't, even as, you know, you know, this is someone that's in their mid twenties. Even at that young of an age,

[00:21:55] Carl Lanore: [00:21:55] she'd recovered faster than most of us, you know?

[00:21:57] Coach Wade Johnson: [00:21:57] Yeah. And you still, well, you still [00:22:00] have to Mac, do everything you can to maximize your ability to recover and recuperate and be prepared for the next training session.

[00:22:08] Because I mean, bodybuilding is grueling in and of itself. Once those guys do what they have to do to look like that in the PO all that stuff. But there's just something I was never interested in. However, I've been around those guys enough. I've helped those guys enough to know that what they do is extremely difficult, but, but for power infrastructure, everything has to have a purpose and you can't have a whole lot of fluff.

[00:22:36] Or it, or it becomes a detriment. It actually takes you further away from the goal that we're working towards. And so slowly but surely when people come here or when I take over their programming, if they stick around for a little bit, they start to see the reason why we do things the way that they do and why you have to do the things in that manner.

[00:22:55] And that you may not look a certain way, but. We're getting the [00:23:00] results that you want. And again, it really comes back to the ability of that athlete to recover and go from session to session. Because as a strength athlete, we're asking a lot. We, you know, I w I was telling the athlete yesterday, when she asked, I said, you want to do something.

[00:23:18] Great. So your price is also great, right. You know, and, and the prices I've got to eat a certain way. I've got to rest a certain way and I have to pay attention to the programming and not stray from it. So it doesn't, you know, it doesn't exhaust me or, or, or again, what it generally does that when they're doing those types of things and all that volume, many, many times, that's the Genesis of an injury.

[00:23:43] That's going to drive down

[00:23:44] Carl Lanore: [00:23:44] the road. Right. I mean every injury I suffered was the result of pushing too hard. And when you think about pushing too hard, why was I trying to look, look, you wouldn't get in your [00:24:00] car and strap 10,000 pounds to the hitch. And decide to drive all of town with it because you know, you're going to break your car.

[00:24:10] It may, it may be fine for a week, two weeks, three weeks, but now things are starting to rattle and the transmission is starting to wear. So you wouldn't do that. And people, I, if you asked them to, they'd be like, no, I don't want to destroy my car, but yet that's the mentality. We go into the gym with, we go into the gym to crush ourselves and, and I think that.

[00:24:32] Um, maybe doing that once in a while. And we're going to talk about the undulating wave approach that you have during the next segment, but maybe doing that like a peak. All right. Let's see how hard I can train today, but you just don't train like that all the time. And, but, but you can't get people to even consider this because there's this, there's this social media.

[00:24:58] Effort where everybody's [00:25:00] trying to outdo themselves. No, I, you know, I'm doing this for 20 minutes, 30 minutes, I'm doing it for an hour. Oh, I'm going to do it more. And, and you get like, so people think, Oh, um, they're applauding me. I'm going to keep doing this. And then you get hurt, then you get injured. And the reality is we know, unless you have some sort of.

[00:25:19] Physical anomaly. You know, you've got a joint that's been bad, your whole life. You got some problems with software. There's no reason for anyone to get hurt doing this. There's no reason for you to inflict pain and injury upon yourself doing this. And this is a guy who, you know, my, my, my bicep, my triceps been reattached even.

[00:25:41] I've had all these. Issues over the years. And I can honestly say I brought them all on myself because there was signs. I had tendinitis in this elbow before I detached this tricep. I had tendonitis in this out of bicep before I tore it doing bent over Rose. [00:26:00] And, and it's like, didn't feel right the day I was dead lifting.

[00:26:04] My hamstrings just didn't feel right the day I. Pull three attachments off the left one. Yeah. I mean, it's like, and all I want to say to people is you don't, it's not guaranteed that you're going to injure yourself. If you're pushing yourself, there's a way to push yourself. And we're going to talk about that.

[00:26:22] When we come back from the break, before we do this, how can people reach out to you? Cause I know that you, you train people remotely all the time.

[00:26:30] Coach Wade Johnson: [00:26:30] Yeah, I, um, I have an email address first. You can, you can see our, uh, our website it's the over compound.com. And there's a link there where you can email me directly, but that email addresses team This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. and you can find me on Facebook.

[00:26:48] Uh, Instagram, we have a gym, uh, Instagram, it's the underscore over underscore compound. And, um, I have a personal, uh, Instagram, it's [00:27:00] at big weight at big weighed 800. And, um, you can, you can go to those, just go to my Facebook page, messaged me. And that's, that's how a lot of the remote clients that I have communicate with me.

[00:27:13] Carl Lanore: [00:27:13] All right, we're going to take a quick commercial break. When we come back, we're going to talk about the type of programming that coach does and why it makes a lot of sense to pay attention, to stay tuned. We'll be right back with more human radio.

[00:27:24] Coach Wade Johnson: [00:27:24] This is the superhuman channel where we use oxygen for the power of good

[00:27:32] Carl Lanore: [00:27:32] later in the show, we're going to talk about a study that shows that Glucosomine may have some of the same. Protective effects against dying as regular exercise. Now I'm not suggesting people take glucosamine instead, but maybe there's a value in taking it along with, so we'll have the scientists on the show, um, a little bit later.

[00:27:57] So, you know, I, I, when I first started [00:28:00] this journey, I was very sick. I had a heart problem and the idea of looking like a bodybuilder, wasn't my goal. In fact, I. Have often been quoted as saying, I'd rather be able to squat 500 pounds, then look like I can squat 500 pounds. And there's a very, very big difference in that.

[00:28:17] And so, so when you come to a guy like you, who has spent his career. Not only being a strong human being, but building other strong human beings. You've, you've developed, you've evolved, um, to design a very unique training protocol that kind of flirts with, but then brings you back down so you can recover a better talk about the dynamic it's called the dynamic wave.

[00:28:41] Right. Reactive wave reactor. I always get that wrong. I still

[00:28:45] Coach Wade Johnson: [00:28:45] reactive way. One of the things on I'm not, there's a lot of programs out there that do what they call a scheduled de-load and that works for a lot of people. Um, we're for me, what I like to do is I like to push or [00:29:00] percentages and we get to a certain level, not, not always to where the lifter or the athlete is breaking down what we're going to get work to a target into intensity.

[00:29:10] Then we wave it back. Some not all the way to the beginning, we weighed back some and then we keep pushing. And so we see you, you learn really quick with each athlete, what their ability to recover. You'd some people can train three weeks and they need to de-load a little bit, um, when we were, uh, Olympic weightlifting, we would have a de-load every fourth week.

[00:29:35] And for some. Especially in the beginning. If, if they're, if they're doing the programming, like I'm laying it out, it can be a deconditioning versus a de-load, you know, there's just a certain amount of foundational conditioning that you have to have. And, um, or at least that's my opinion in my experience.

[00:29:58] And so each [00:30:00] person will you'll find out. When they need to de-load now sometimes it's just going to come down to you see that the liquors is underperforming and it's like, Hey, I'm going to pull this back. And it doesn't have to be necessarily a de-load again, it's reactive. Um, like the we've we've had, uh, discussions on the show in the past about the decline bench press methods that I use.

[00:30:21] And that is there's no percentage based, you know, type of stimulation. There are training. It is all based solely on percentage. I mean solely on performance. Right. So if I see the lift are starting to slip, or if they're struggling a little bit, then we pull it back a little bit. So there's always a wave process going and it,

[00:30:45] Carl Lanore: [00:30:45] but I wanna, I wanna, I wanna, I wanna make a point here, but it's reactive to performance, not predictive, like, hold on this week.

[00:30:51] You're going to dry. Yeah. It's very important,

[00:30:54] Coach Wade Johnson: [00:30:54] right? Cause uh, I got, well, we were talking on air off air about an athlete that I coach [00:31:00] Richard. And this is a big, big, strong dude, a young guy, I think rich is 30, 32.

[00:31:07] Carl Lanore: [00:31:07] I follow him on Instagram. He's hilarious. His, his Instagram handle is at

[00:31:10] Coach Wade Johnson: [00:31:10] a bar it's growing as big as, as strong as he is.

[00:31:13] He is equally in a, his, his humor and wit is not for everybody

[00:31:17] Carl Lanore: [00:31:17] right now. I know that

[00:31:19] Coach Wade Johnson: [00:31:19] he is really funny. Yes. But, uh, It's one of those things where, when he hits a wall, it's going well and going well. And then boom. Yeah. So I'm constantly communicating with him, even if he's performing well. Hey, how are you sleeping?

[00:31:35] How are you feeling? How are you eating? How's work? Any, any little slip there where we feel like it's going to be a detriment that we pull back, you know, and with him, I'm doing a lot of percentage-based stuff. I go, Hey, I'm going to pull you back about 10%. Let's see how you perform on that day. And if it's really good, instead of just kind of starting back in building our way back up, sometimes I'll jump, you know, [00:32:00] 5%, you know, on, on the next session.

[00:32:03] So it that's, that's one of the hardest things to juggle when you have several athletes is what is their ability to recover, but how we do that is waive those intensities and sometimes they're scheduled, but it's rare. Again, it comes down to. How was the athlete performing? Because there, again, in the, in the climate that we live in right now with COVID and, and all the things that have been affected by that stress levels are at a all time high, you know, and I coached someone that worked really high in the food chain of the pharmaceutical, or she was a pharmacist, uh, And she told me probably year that SSR E S S R I usage, where she was at was up over 30%, you know, that's, that's kind of terrifying, you know?

[00:32:58] So, so what that [00:33:00] tells us though, is, you know, stress has a huge, huge impact. And so, you know, what's, what is the person going to have? They lost their job because we've had people that have lost their job or they've had to change jobs or whatever the case may be. So we have to look again, we're always responding.

[00:33:19] We're always reacting to how the lifter is performing and do we need to take some things away? You know, like you're going to come in and you're going to bench press, I'm going to have you do some laps and traps, and then you're going home. Let's do that for a couple of weeks and kind of. Rebuild, you know, your recovery gets you where you're feeling good again and sleeping.

[00:33:39] Well, you know, a lot of times, you know, Rob speaks of this when the athlete gets to the point that if everything is normal, you know, your eating is fairly good. Uh, your, your supplementation is good. Your training is regular and you can't sleep. Something is going on a week. So we got to pull back a little bit.

[00:33:59] Let's get that [00:34:00] back on track, and then we can, you know, ramp back up. So everything that we do with reactive wave is all about keeping the athlete, performing at the highest level during the training, and then being sensitive to the need of, you know, how we need to, you know, to, to push or contract a little bit and help that with her Rico.

[00:34:21] Carl Lanore: [00:34:21] And, and that's all driven by the drop in performance. And so anyway, so, so anyone could use this approach, do all they have to do is not be stupid and push themselves harder. Which, you know, it's almost like, Oh, you're, you're just, I don't want to say the P word, but you know, you're just the P word because you're not willing to get in there and, and work.

[00:34:41] I don't want to say it because women are offended by it just for the record. Not like I curse constantly. Right. I'm sure. But you know, um, you know, it's like, Oh, you know, you've got to get in there and, you know, just take 400 milligrams of caffeine and hydrous, get in there and do the work, which by the way, I've come to the conclusion.

[00:34:57] Caffeine is one of the worst things. That's ever been [00:35:00] used in, because the way it, the way it's abused day in and day out, and you never know, you never know that you're, over-trained, that's the real problem, but it's like, anyone could follow this method if you go in and you're working with a weight that you've worked with before, and it feels really frigging heavy and you just can't guess what?

[00:35:18] It's time to back off. Yeah, you're not going to lose the strength if you back off. That's what the people are afraid.

[00:35:24] Coach Wade Johnson: [00:35:24] No, I do this every time I send out an email and I know that as soon as they see these numbers that I've pulled back, I always tell them, Hey, don't panic. You're not going to lose all your gains.

[00:35:36] This, you know, work that again with strength, strength is such a marathon. There, there is no sprinting. And I always. I always use this analogy, you know, with everybody that I start coaching, you know, have you ever heard, you know, Aesop's fable about the tortoise and the Hare and there, you know, most everybody has in some form or [00:36:00] another.

[00:36:00] And I go, you've seen cartoons. You've seen programs, you've read books. How many times is a rabbit when the race will never, he never does. There's always some reason why he doesn't get to the finish line. And this is why. It's like, we're, you know, we're, we're trying to, we're trying to get you to run through the finish line, but it, but it takes time and, and, and you have to be willing to put that time in and there's no shortcuts.

[00:36:29] Carl Lanore: [00:36:29] Yeah. It's really amazing. And again, like I said, this is something that everyone has available to them. Everyone can follow this. You don't, you don't need special loading patterns that are predetermined. In fact, The idea of having predetermined loading patterns, patterns is almost like telling somebody that they're going to have to take their motorcycle driving test before they've actually studied for it, or before they've actually written a motorcycle.

[00:36:58] Well, we're going to give you the test now [00:37:00] it's like having loading patterns may show you an example of how things can go in your training, but. That may not be you, you may end up needing more time or you may be stronger and you can go faster. No one pays attention to themselves anymore. I'm living proof of it.

[00:37:18] All the injuries I've suffered. If I would've said, Oh, no, that tendonitis is bothering me. I'm not working today. I'm not doing it today. And so it's just a matter of paying attention to your body. So tell me how, when you program a lifter power lifter, and they have both. Uh, you know, the bench, the squat and the deadlift that they're training for.

[00:37:40] Do you, how do you split those lifts up?

[00:37:43] Coach Wade Johnson: [00:37:43] What I do typically now we will use occasionally I'm, uh, I'm uh, I'm okay with, excuse me. Um, high-frequency training where you're doing multiple lists a day. Right. But, but I do that spiritually and again, [00:38:00] depending on the athlete, it's really, that's really more for an advanced athlete.

[00:38:05] And I've seen people do that with success, but how I typically set it up is we have two upper bodies and two lower body sessions with the lower body session. One, the primary focus is squat. The other primary focus is deadlift with the two upper bodies. We're doing a bench workout. And then we do a, a close grip decline.

[00:38:27] Typically it depends on, on the athlete, you know, and what the needs are. And, uh, we separate. The two upper body workouts by 72 hours. So typically Monday we're benching Tuesday, we're squatting Thursday. We come back, we're doing up another pressing upper body session, Friday work deadlifting. And, uh, we, you know, there's, I have all jewelry workouts, which, which we've covered in the past for, for people that are doing things, they can do it on Wednesday and Saturday.

[00:38:57] And depending on, you know, if they're doing [00:39:00] strong wind and things like that, but typically. The typical split is two upper bodies, two lower bodies. And those two segments are separated by 72 hours. Typically, unless there's a schedule need to maximize again, you saying it over and over again to maximize

[00:39:18] Carl Lanore: [00:39:18] recovery.

[00:39:19] So you would err on the side of taking off as opposed to training sooner. If there's a schedule issue, right?

[00:39:27] Coach Wade Johnson: [00:39:27] If there's a schedule yeah. Issue, there are times it depends on now, if someone's early in the cycle and stay, I can't squat Tuesday, can I squat Wednesday? Yeah, we can do that. If it's really close, then what I will suggest is if we can't make a change per se, they could come in Saturday.

[00:39:45] If they have to deadlift on Friday, I will suggest that we either train lighter or we don't train the squat and you come in and you do assistance work. Um, or we do a combination like, Hey, we're not, we're not going to squat Wednesday. [00:40:00] What I'm going to have you do is when you come in on Friday, we'll do this variation of squat along with your dead lift routine.

[00:40:06] It's just that it takes it's. What we're trying to do is minimize the chance of injury, right. And not stacking those things up too close. That's that's always the direction I'm going to lean. So I'll, I will always lean a little conservative.

[00:40:23] Carl Lanore: [00:40:23] Okay. I want to take a quick commercial break. And when we come back, I want to talk about nutrition because I did a show.

[00:40:29] It was either earlier this year or the end of last year, where we talked about a study that shows that over-training is exclusively a result of not eating enough. This was a, I'm trying to think. The university I did this study. It was a very well done study. Uh, it was, uh, it was controlled and it comes down to.

[00:40:50] If you're not eating enough, you're going to end up getting overtrained. So I want to talk about what discussions you have with your athletes about eating and this feeds back into the [00:41:00] allow, the physique, that the training. Gives you to occur, stay tuned. We'll be right back with more coach Wade Johnson.

[00:41:14] welcome back at the top of the hour, we're going to be talking about a fascinating study that looks at Glucosomine, uh, as having some very, very beneficial effects, uh, uh, actually compared to regular exercise. And again, like I said before, we're not suggesting people stop exercising at all, but. It could be beneficial to take along with your ex.

[00:41:34] So as we'll find out about that

[00:41:36] Coach Wade Johnson: [00:41:36] in just a little bit.

[00:41:37] Carl Lanore: [00:41:37] Yeah. So let's talk about nutrition. Um, like I talked about, uh, coming into the break, I did a show that shows that overtraining is, is not a result of how much work you're doing, but how little food you're eating and it makes perfect sense. When you think about it, what do you think?

[00:41:55] Do you talk to your athletes about nutrition at all?

[00:41:59] Coach Wade Johnson: [00:41:59] Yes. [00:42:00] And one of the things that we've said in the past year, most over-training can be combated. It's not that you're, over-training generally, it's more that you're under eating and, and that's, that's one of the biggest things. It's a little more predominant in my female athletes, you know, because they want to look a certain way or they, you know, don't want to, you know, over feel like they're overeating.

[00:42:24] Right. Um, But like, you know, Jennifer and Melissa, you know, who have been very successful athletes, you know, they, they put the time in and eating and, and, and, and that's part of the gig. And, uh, when I was at my biggest and strongest now, did I eat more than the average person to answer obviously is yes.

[00:42:46] Was it always pizza? Absolutely not. Um, but by and large, what people do is they don't, they just don't take in enough food. Especially protein and especially calories to where they can perform [00:43:00] at their best and when you're eating well. And when you're feeding the body, you know, a lot of, a lot of people tend to overeat, but they under feet.

[00:43:10] And so that's why we would spread our meals out to where we were eating, you know, six and seven times a day, both Wes and I, and, uh, and our supplements were, you know, not a bunch of these giant. You know, high calorie shakes, we would take amino acids and liver tablets and, you know, and get those protein sources that would absorb at a different level.

[00:43:29] But ultimately is make sure that you're getting enough food. That one you're you can, you have the fuel and the energy to train, but also that you have the fuel that's going to help maximize your recovery

[00:43:43] as

[00:43:44] Carl Lanore: [00:43:44] well. So what about protein? Do you, do you tell the athletes about protein? You explained to them.

[00:43:50] When they first come aboard, like if you're not eating enough protein, you're just not going to be able to do the things you want to do. Correct.

[00:43:56] Coach Wade Johnson: [00:43:56] And, and, and I, there's some protein supplements that I keep in [00:44:00] the gym, uh, just for that reason, you know, it's like, Hey, you know, I've got this available. You don't have to get it from me, but here here's where your fault, you know?

[00:44:08] Cause I'll tell him before I look at any type of food plan for you, here's what I want you to do for the next two or three weeks. I want you to keep a food journal with approximate on what you're eating and what the approximate amounts are. And then let's review them because a lot of times you'll see really quick, what people will do, an athletes, eating habits, you see real quickly where their deficiencies are and what those habits, you know, can then be shaped to where you can maximize.

[00:44:40] You know, the, the, the food intake to eight, that performance. And then again, the bigger issue is the recovery.

[00:44:47] Carl Lanore: [00:44:47] And do you talk about sleep, you know, especially with your younger athletes and I don't mean really young cause I know you train some young teenagers, but the guys that are in the 25 to 35, you know, on the weekend, they want to go out with their [00:45:00] friends.

[00:45:00] They want to drink, you know, do you talk to them about sleep at all?

[00:45:04] Coach Wade Johnson: [00:45:04] Sure. And it's one of those things where. Um, I, I get it, you know, I probably get about seven solid hours of sleep, just, just simply because of schedule and, uh, but, uh, but I will tell them if you are burning the candle at both ends, if, if you're doing it once, it will, all of us do for some reason or another, you're going to have that short night where you going to get four hours of sleep and you got to get up the next day real early and take care of business.

[00:45:34] But if on average you have one, two or three of those nights a week. It's not a matter of if it's, when it's going to have, not just a detrimental effect, but where it can even have a catastrophic effect, not only on your performance, but again, more so your ability to recover. So it's one of those things where.

[00:45:53] I really try to emphasize, you know, get into a pattern of where you're done for the night. [00:46:00] Like for me, if I leave my phone on after eight o'clock, I'm going to enter it when it, when it rings or when it, when I get, uh, so I, I turned it off and, or otherwise, you know, I'm, I'm just, I'm going to continue work, work, work, work, work.

[00:46:15] And I have learned the hard way, you know, that I'm not going to recover if I don't turn it off. Give myself enough time to kind of wind down, you know? Yeah. And then it kind of simmer down a little bit where I, cause I don't, I generally have no problem going to sleep and even staying asleep. So, and we have a very rigid and long schedule, you know, day in and day out.

[00:46:37] So it is imperative. So that's, that's the thing. And I'm like, even on weekends, I used to be. So, uh, you know, adamant against taking a nap on the weekend, but if you have time and you need the rest, even if you don't sleep, if you can just chill out for a little while, you know, just, just stretch out and rest those little things.

[00:46:59] You know, those [00:47:00] things tend to add up and have a, have a big benefit

[00:47:03] Carl Lanore: [00:47:03] real quick. Um, give a couple of plugs. So you had some athletes come to Louisville this weekend and compete. And one that I'm always interested in is Jennifer Milliken, because she's a. She's a mom. She's a really tiny girl when you think about it, but she moved some amazing weight.

[00:47:20] Talk about her performance this weekend.

[00:47:23] Coach Wade Johnson: [00:47:23] Um, she kinda, she said it in a post that, uh, yesterday how she had gotten out of her bubble, we've been, I've been coaching Jennifer now for a little seven or eight years, and she's become very involved with USA power lifting in and being in. IPF athlete and has won worlds a couple of times.

[00:47:45] So this was, uh, you know, with COVID, um, meats have been very, very sparse and, uh, and there's, there's a lot of restrictions and a lot of challenges. Anyway, we went to a different Federation right there where you're at Louisville and, [00:48:00] uh, she squatted in wraps, which she, she has a competed in wraps in quite some time.

[00:48:04] And she squatted, uh, Uh, 192.5 kilos,

[00:48:09] Carl Lanore: [00:48:09] which in pounds is about four 25, 25

[00:48:12] Coach Wade Johnson: [00:48:12] ish. Yeah. Yeah. She bitched one 12, five. She was certainly capable of more, which is just a smidge under, uh, two 50. And deadlifted 195 kilos, which is about 430 pounds at a body. I don't remember specifically what her body weight was.

[00:48:33] Uh,

[00:48:33] Carl Lanore: [00:48:33] well as well on the one 40, right? She's on one 40

[00:48:36] Coach Wade Johnson: [00:48:36] she's uh, she lifted in the one 40

[00:48:38] Carl Lanore: [00:48:38] eights. And so she had a total of what? 1100, you said

[00:48:43] Coach Wade Johnson: [00:48:43] 500 dealers. So,

[00:48:45] Carl Lanore: [00:48:45] I mean, and she just goes to show you and this, and so this comes full circle to why I want to do this show. Does she look like a bodybuilder? No, there she'll grab a female bodybuilder though, but when you train exclusively to get stronger, [00:49:00] And you let the weights, you move, be the goal.

[00:49:04] You can get stronger, but most of us are training with too high of a volume to ever really know how strong we can be. And so I want people to listen to the show and think to yourself, if you want to be a bodybuilder, that's great. Uh, God bless you. It's it's a lot of work. It's a lot of dieting. It's a lot of everything else.

[00:49:24] But if you simply want to be the strongest human, you can be given your genetics, given your frame, given your musculature, and you want to train exclusively for strength. You want to listen to what coach Wade is talking about here. And in fact, you probably will enjoy it more because you'll be, you'll be in the gym, but you you'll come home and you won't be crushed every single day.

[00:49:46] Just think about that. The best of both worlds, having energy to live your life and getting stronger and stronger and stronger as the years go on. And really at 62 years old, that's really all I'm interested. Cause I'm never going to [00:50:00] look like a bodybuilder. I just don't have, I just don't have the discipline to diet like that.

[00:50:05] I just don't. But I want to be the strongest 60, 70, 80 year old that I can be. And it's achievable when you realize you don't have to do that much work. You just have to pay attention to your body when it says, Hey ya, I handled 300 pounds in this lift last week. And now today it's heavy. Oh, I know I need to back off now.

[00:50:30] It's beautiful. It's a beautiful thing. It's a gift. He's giving you a good coach is giving you a gift. He's giving you the, uh, approval, the permission to train for strength. Think about that. Think about that. I think it's wonderful. I think it's wonderful. And we will see you again on the anniversary show on the 19th for a quick check-in to be part of the show.

[00:50:54] Um, but thank you so much for being a good give people how they can reach you one more time.

[00:50:58] Coach Wade Johnson: [00:50:58] Oh, you can find me. [00:51:00] If you look for a website, do you overcome lb.com? There, there is a link there where you can email me, um, that email his team This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.. You can find me on Facebook, Instagram. My personal Instagram is at big weight, 800.

[00:51:16] The gym Instagram is the owner score over underscore co compound. You can find me there.

[00:51:23] Carl Lanore: [00:51:23] Yeah, you go, wait, thanks for being here today, brother.

[00:51:25] Coach Wade Johnson: [00:51:25] Always good to be with you, Carl.

[00:51:27] Carl Lanore: [00:51:27] I will talk to you soon. We're going to take one quick commercial break. And when we come back, we're going to be joined by professor Dana King to talk about this phenomenally interesting research on of all things Glucosomine so stay tuned.

[00:51:39] We'll be right back with more super human radio.

[00:51:47] welcome back to super human radio.

[00:51:52] This is a fascinating study. A doctor sent to us by Tim Gwen. He posted it in the super [00:52:00] nation Facebook page and Alyssa, or reached out to professor at Dana King. How are you doing professor King? Great. Um, I'm adjusting your volume as we, uh, get started here. So, um, you are with Western Virginia university, correct?

[00:52:16] Prof. Dana King, MD: [00:52:16] That's right.

[00:52:17] Carl Lanore: [00:52:17] Okay. Talk about this study. Uh, let's start off. Why w what point did you in this direction that you felt that this research needed to be done?

[00:52:27] Prof. Dana King, MD: [00:52:27] Well, uh, my team and I do research about nutrition exercise and the dentists, the general benefits of a healthy lifestyle. Uh, even as you get older, so we always cruising the literature to see, uh, what, uh, what might be helpful.

[00:52:43] And I was talking to my buddies, I'm a recreational bicyclist. And uh, they said, Oh yeah, we, we all take glucosamine. And I said, Oh, well, that's interesting. And so, uh, I, I looked into it.

[00:52:57] Carl Lanore: [00:52:57] But, but they take glucose to mean for the normal [00:53:00] reasons of, of, uh, you know, building chondracytes and joints and helping soft tissue, uh, recover.

[00:53:07] Did you do this, this study looked at, uh, uh, mortality rates, correct?

[00:53:13] Prof. Dana King, MD: [00:53:13] Well, that's right. So in my, looking at the literature that already existed, I was trying to decide if I wanted to take it. Um, I found a study that had been. Somewhat ignored. It was in the European journal of epidemiology and not one that you and I read every day.

[00:53:30] And it said that Glucosomine helped you live long. It was done in the state of Washington.

[00:53:37] Carl Lanore: [00:53:37] Okay. So, so what now don't talk about your research. So what did you do? Did you, did you, did you analyze the existing data, like a meta analysis or a review of the existing research, or did you actually perform a new study?

[00:53:52] Well,

[00:53:53] Prof. Dana King, MD: [00:53:53] we, when we saw that, we said, what? So we, we looked at something called the [00:54:00] national health and nutrition examination survey. So it's a national, so these people were in one state, the state of Washington who knows what, who knows what those people are doing out there. So we said, let's, let's do it on national.

[00:54:11] Let's look at a national study and see if this is really true. So, uh, my partner and I June. Jin Jang, uh, looked at existing data, um, merged it with some, another database with mortality in it. And we were able to essentially sort of retrospectively follow people for 15 years and see what happened.

[00:54:37] Carl Lanore: [00:54:37] Now.

[00:54:37] Obviously this study shows a correlation, not causation, right?

[00:54:43] Prof. Dana King, MD: [00:54:43] That is right. This is epidemiology is in other words, the people that were taking the glucosamine were self chosen. They weren't randomized.

[00:54:50] Coach Wade Johnson: [00:54:50] Right.

[00:54:51] Carl Lanore: [00:54:51] Right. Were there any other similarities that would have caused some sort of unique stratification of the population you looked at besides [00:55:00] glucosamine?

[00:55:00] Did they have other similarities in diet or exercise or any of those kinds of things?

[00:55:07] Prof. Dana King, MD: [00:55:07] Okay, so we. Try to win. When you do this analysis, you try to think of other things it's almost impossible to control for diet, because whether you control for you now, how many? So, but we look back and we said, okay, let's control for age, race, uh, education,

[00:55:30] Carl Lanore: [00:55:30] socio socio-economic type things.

[00:55:32] Yeah.

[00:55:32] Prof. Dana King, MD: [00:55:32] Social, economic, educational. Attainment and an exercise because we know people are probably trying to take this when they're exercising, so we don't want it to be an exercise effect. So anyway, we put that all in the mixture and it was, it was still there and quite, quite prominent.

[00:55:53] Carl Lanore: [00:55:53] Yeah. Because I would think that people who take glucosamine exercise, so they want their joints to remain viable so they can keep [00:56:00] exercising.

[00:56:00] And so how, how do you tease out. The effects of exercise in this population versus the effects of supplementation with glucosamine?

[00:56:08] Prof. Dana King, MD: [00:56:08] Well, we use some statistical techniques. Uh, this is called a Cox proportional hazards ratio, and it's a regression that takes into account other factors over time. And so, in other words, what, what this is saying statistically, is that people who were taking glucosamine regularly and they had been taking it more than a year.

[00:56:32] Um, we're half as likely to die of cardiovascular disease, whether they were exercising or not, uh, no matter what age they were, race, uh, smoking, et cetera.

[00:56:47] Carl Lanore: [00:56:47] Interesting. Okay. So Peter Lucado's who watches the show from hungry, said. Do we have any idea of human dosing from the study? Do we, do we, do we have dose stratification?

[00:56:59] Do we know that [00:57:00] people, they just said, no, I take glucosamine or some people are taking two grams and other people are taking 1500 milligrams.

[00:57:08] Prof. Dana King, MD: [00:57:08] All right. You you're. You're very good. Uh, the problem is of course, remember these were self-selected people. What. At least 50 different combinations on the market.

[00:57:19] You take glucosamine and chondroitin MSM, who knows what else? And it, uh, maybe you take one a day, maybe take it twice a week. So yes, all those people, as long as they said, they'd been taking it more than a year. Now we went back, uh, we didn't do this in the original study, but for you, we went back and average together, and then there were some mistakes in the data and June had to.

[00:57:42] Bless her had to go through every supplement and calculate the dose of the glucosamine, et cetera. And to her best calculation, people were taking an average of 635 milligrams a day,

[00:57:57] Carl Lanore: [00:57:57] which, which, which, um, according to the [00:58:00] studies that look at glucosomines effect on chondracytes and soft tissue is, is underdose the recommendation.

[00:58:08] From research. When you look at the research that shows effective outcomes, uh, from, from, uh, Glucosomine on joints and tissue, we're looking more like daily doses, about 1800 milligrams a day. And so that that's, that's, that's not, that's not an excessive amount that you, you found.

[00:58:29] Prof. Dana King, MD: [00:58:29] No. Now they may have been taking a little more, in other words, it could be that they were taking it, but they would miss days and things.

[00:58:36] Yeah.

[00:58:37] Carl Lanore: [00:58:37] And plus you're looking for the average or the mean when she went June, did that, she's looking for the mean, that means that there are people who are taking more than that. And then people who taking less than that, that is

[00:58:47] Prof. Dana King, MD: [00:58:47] right. And when they said they were taking it and taking it daily, were they taking the whole thing?

[00:58:51] Were they taking three of them? You know, it comes in 500, 400. Sometimes it comes in one big capsule. So I, I [00:59:00] can't put a lot of weight in that number. Uh, but, uh, it seems that taking it regularly, uh, you know, seem to be the case.

[00:59:09] Carl Lanore: [00:59:09] Okay. So Tim Gwen is the guy who sent us the study. Thank you, Tim. Um, so his question is kind of, and you just answered.

[00:59:17] Is there evidence that lower doses have benefits obviously? If the mean was, you know, 600 milligrams, that's considered a lower dose and there's obviously lower doses than that. And it's still correlated with better outcomes as far as longevity goes. Well,

[00:59:31] Prof. Dana King, MD: [00:59:31] there's some, there's some evidence, again, this is not a trial.

[00:59:36] Remember we're just looking at free living humans. Um, the, um, while we were doing our study to confirm this, they did one in great Britain. And they had access and the numbers are astounding to a half a million people wow. To study because they have a giant medical record in great Britain. Does it, you know, everyone's on the same one for this thing, you know, the [01:00:00] health service, right.

[01:00:01] They looked at people now and they said they asked a simple question. Are you taking glucosamine and chondroitin? Yes or no. So 20% of the population. Said yes to that question. Now that's a huge,

[01:00:18] Carl Lanore: [01:00:18] that's a large number.

[01:00:20] Prof. Dana King, MD: [01:00:20] So I assume that they're not all taking 1500 or 1800 milligrams a day. Right? So, because hours of people taking it regularly was 4%.

[01:00:33] Carl Lanore: [01:00:33] Right.

[01:00:34] Prof. Dana King, MD: [01:00:34] So people taking any showed a 15% reduction in the likelihood of mortality, I mean, So, um, you know, it's, it's a pretty strong effect and if you take it regularly, it seems to be even stronger.

[01:00:50] Carl Lanore: [01:00:50] So another question from Tim Gwen, and you just alluded to this is that glucosamine is almost always, [01:01:00] uh, taken with contributin.

[01:01:02] Uh, now this question says if there's a prophylactic effect, which it's hard to say that with the research that you did. But what about the ? I mean, it's hard to tease out conjoint and when almost every glucosamine supplement out there has conjoint in it.

[01:01:19] Prof. Dana King, MD: [01:01:19] Um, the research has been done by others said that glucosamine and chondroitin both contribute to the lower mortality and that taking it prophylactically.

[01:01:31] Okay. Our study looked at people 40 and out right now, it wasn't a trial. So. We can't leap to say yes, everyone should take it, but it's, it's tempting. I mean, it has no side effects. Uh, if you take one, it doesn't bother you, then, you know, just keep taking it, you know? Uh, it, I mean, the effect is so profound and the side effects are, I mean, I, you can't say zero, [01:02:00] but I mean, they're minimal.

[01:02:01] Carl Lanore: [01:02:01] Well, what, so what are back in the day? It was said that glucosamine supplements effected blood sugar levels. And now, uh, Diego Parrella, who's watching live is asking questions about glucosamine, increasing cholesterol. Are there any, uh, known, uh, let's say unwanted effects of supplementing with glucosamine?

[01:02:24] Uh,

[01:02:25] Prof. Dana King, MD: [01:02:25] fortunately for us, uh, the government did a big study, uh, three or four years, uh, long. Because they were looking at the bone and joint effects. So they had side effect data and they, I mean, you know, the government's not going to say anything is okay. And they said it doesn't do anything. Um, what, what has, what it does beneficially is it appears to lower your level of inflammation, Biomark proposed mechanism, then it, [01:03:00] then that would be.

[01:03:02] No, that would be it.

[01:03:03] Carl Lanore: [01:03:03] Okay. That was another one of my questions, you know, do we have any evidence of a pathway, a potential pathway? And the first thing I was thinking about was metabolic cause everything. When we look at senescent cell accumulation, we look at aging, we look at inflammation, we can always track that back to some sort of meta metabolic disarray.

[01:03:24] And, but, but you're saying it, it definitely has an effect on, on inflammation.

[01:03:29] Prof. Dana King, MD: [01:03:29] Yes. And, and, and these are prospective studies, obviously they're very small, uh, and you know, 20 people, 40 people, 80 people, uh, they looked at inflammation biomarkers, and they said, yeah, there was also C-reactive protein or interleukins, you know, were lower.

[01:03:48] And so it's a possible mechanism, obviously, like you say, we haven't done the long-term studies, but. Uh, it's an intriguing because we know cause the biggest effects seem to be on cardiovascular [01:04:00] disease and we know cardiovascular disease is rated to long-term inflammation. So the fact that you're just taking an anti-inflammatory is attempting a,

[01:04:09] Carl Lanore: [01:04:09] um, is there any evidence that, uh, taking glucosamine and chondroitin requires some sort of a metabolic pathway to be.

[01:04:20] Uh, executed maybe that  cytochrome cascade and that taking too much could actually deplete the availability of enzymes that would make this less effective. Any evidence out there of any research that you could take too much?

[01:04:36] Prof. Dana King, MD: [01:04:36] Uh, that, that is a very good question. These were, again, people that just chose their own dose, they probably were aiming at the recommended dose or somewhat less.

[01:04:45] Um, we did not study people that, you know, took too much. Um, so I don't know the answer to that, that question. The only caution, uh, is that it's made from shellfish, shell [01:05:00] shells and shit selfish and the same stuff that, you know, that makes a cartilage and so forth. And so people with that allergy, uh, uh, usually should not take it or they have to take a special formulation.

[01:05:11] But other than that, uh, you know, and you know, I'm a doctor don't, don't exceed the recommended dose. But, um, you know, uh, the regular dose, uh, I, you, you asked me, am I recommending it to my patients? What, I don't think we're at the point of recommending it to everyone. One, because that would be going beyond the data, you know?

[01:05:33] Uh, but if someone has active, physically active cyclist and runner, et cetera, if they, um, if they have osteoarthritis. And you say, well, gee, this nourishes your joints. And by that, you know, by the way it looks like it might, it might make you likely to live longer. Uh, then yes, I would. I would tell people to take

[01:05:55] Carl Lanore: [01:05:55] Murray, Bret word, uh, uh, brave, wait, I'm sorry.

[01:05:59] Uh, [01:06:00] has a question. I kind of know the answer a little bit, but I want to put it up. He says most school close to me and I see is sulfated. Uh, I take, I take it as a supplement primarily for the sulfate. Glucosamine is probably getting a lot of credit here where the sulfate deserves the credit. And I would disagree with that because I take glucosamine hydrochloride.

[01:06:22] Do we know what form of Glucosomine folks took or is it just, Hey, it's a glucosamine supplement.

[01:06:28] Prof. Dana King, MD: [01:06:28] We add them all together and put them in the mixer. So, uh, the most common one is glucosamine sulfate. You say the sulfate is the one that's getting the credit. No way of knowing that, um, But the that's the most common one.

[01:06:43] And so that would be the one that's most prevalent in this study. And of course, along with the droid. And so the, you know, bone anti-inflammatory effect thing, and that's not a characteristic of sulfate, uh, is the leading hypothesis. So I would tend to lean on that.

[01:07:00] [01:07:00] Carl Lanore: [01:07:00] Yeah, no, I, I would agree with that. Let's see.

[01:07:02] We have one other question from a live listener. She says, I'm wondering. If it would have any beneficial effects on people who had an aortic tear, my mother-in-law almost died because of this. Would this increase the strength of those tissue and that's not considered soft tissue? I don't think that's, that's, uh, uh, uh, right.

[01:07:22] That's

[01:07:22] Prof. Dana King, MD: [01:07:22] specialized. Uh, the blood vessels are specialized tissue. That's different from connected tissue and the. The cartilage and joints and so forth, uh, that would be going way beyond what we found now. It reduced cardiovascular risk and which was heart attacks and strokes in general. Uh, but that we did not tease out.

[01:07:45] Um, of course the effect on people with an aneurysm or a tear of a blood vessel, because that would be a lower number and somewhat uncommon. Right.

[01:07:57] Carl Lanore: [01:07:57] You know, um, I did a show a [01:08:00] few years ago with a scientist who came on, you know, so we're learning that muscle is an endocrine system. It produces hormones. We learned, we've learned that fat has endocrine type characteristics.

[01:08:14] It produces hormones. And I had a scientist on the show a few years ago, who talked about the facia of muscle that its contribution to, um, communication throughout the body. Like this network, this sheet that is more than just, we think of it as a sheet that, that keeps the muscles intact. Then it allows you to attach muscles and insertions and originations to bone, but it there's a lot more going on.

[01:08:43] And it makes perfect sense that if you use things that are known to improve soft tissue health, and this, even this is collagen. Uh, small doses of vitamin C, not excessive. Those is a vitamin [01:09:00] C uh, things that mildly and appropriately raised growth hormone as we age. And now this supplement, it makes perfect sense that if soft tissue is healthy, it's just one less thing that can foul up.

[01:09:21] Prof. Dana King, MD: [01:09:21] What do you think. Um, no, that's an interesting, and of course the, you know, the body is amazing and the effects of the different tissues are just astounding and the more I learn about it and I'm still learning and I'm in, you know, the 60 plus, so I'm still learning about it. And it's just amazing. Um, the studies like this, the epidemiology is, and seeing it, it's like an observation it's like seeing, uh, Uh, lightning, essentially.

[01:09:52] I wonder if that's electricity, you know, in other words, we're making an observation here, uh, in, [01:10:00] in, uh, in human beings that chose to take this and say, gosh, they lived longer. I mean, what, what in the world? You know? And so all the reasons why. And, uh, Ken, is it, can we manipulate the dose? Can we take more of it?

[01:10:14] Can we take it with, or without vitamin C can we do it in old people or young? Otherwise, all those questions are really left to be answered and, uh, you know, exciting, exciting ones. We really raise more questions than we do sometimes,

[01:10:28] Carl Lanore: [01:10:28] which leads me to the next question, which is, if someone came to you with funding, what would you like to do next to try to test this theory?

[01:10:40] Prof. Dana King, MD: [01:10:40] Well, uh, the tempting thing to do, I'd have to get a young partner would be the flip people on a, you know, a thousand or 1500 milligrams and, you know, check in, check in on them every year and check in on him 15 years from now. Um, and obviously in the meantime, uh, [01:11:00] like you said, we'd love to know more what it does in other tissues.

[01:11:04] Um, I think we're just scratching the surface on what the inflammation, inflammation, biomarkers, you know, how they respond to it. So we could do all that in the meantime, while we were waiting those 15 years for the results,

[01:11:16] Carl Lanore: [01:11:16] anything that affects CRP is really interesting to me. And I'll tell you why. Um, uh, about five years ago, I started to look at, um, neuropathies because we're plagued with neuropathies in this country.

[01:11:28] We already, originally we thought it was diabetic neuropathy, that it was a result of. High blood sugar. But now we know people who have no, uh, blood sugar management issues that are developing polyneuropathies and it started to fascinate me and I keep coming back to coffee, believe it or not. And I'll tell you why.

[01:11:48] So coffee, caffeine raises C-reactive protein. I found a study that showed that, uh, B12 did not remedy the problem, even though B12 is supposed [01:12:00] to help control C-reactive protein. Coffee has a unique characteristic. Caffeine will raise CRP, but coffee not only raises it because of the caffeine, but there are other things in coffee that caused the, uh, causes the liver not to flush the caffeine out as quickly.

[01:12:20] So you have a double whammy, you're raising caffeine levels in the blood, and you're also lowering the ability to, to ex, to excrete it. And. I S several good studies. I looked at show that high levels of C-reactive protein in some individuals who are predisposed, they must have some sensitivity in the peripheral nervous system will lead to neuropathy.

[01:12:46] And so I became fascinated with CRP and I've wondered for a long time, like, what would. Independently lower CRP. And when I look at your research, I'm like, this has a profound Glucosomine has a profound effect on lowering [01:13:00] CRP and probably why it has cardiovascular protective effects because we know CRP made its landmark debut as a independent indicator of the probability of heart disease.

[01:13:15] Well,

[01:13:15] Prof. Dana King, MD: [01:13:15] yes, it did. And, uh, and other research and, uh, we'll obviously have to do another podcast about it. Uh, the fiber is, uh, dietary fiber has a big effect on lowering it and maybe mitigating the effects of things like coffee. So you have coffee, but you also have some nice whole, whole grain cereal with it and, Oh, it's all evens out and you're okay.

[01:13:37] Carl Lanore: [01:13:37] Right. So, um, what would you recommend to lay people and clinicians, uh, as a result of this research, uh, do you have any types of advice for them?

[01:13:49] Prof. Dana King, MD: [01:13:49] Well, I would recommend that they talk to their family doctor and say, Hey, what do you think is, would this be for me? Would this be worth a try? Uh, and, uh, and, and discuss it.

[01:13:59] I [01:14:00] think it would be, you know, I think it'd be reasonable to do so.

[01:14:03] Carl Lanore: [01:14:03] Very good. I love to study. I like this kind of stuff. And like you said, It creates questions. And if we start asking the right questions, we start doing the right research. So I applaud you for, for publishing this study.

[01:14:16] Prof. Dana King, MD: [01:14:16] Well, thank you very much

[01:14:17] Carl Lanore: [01:14:17] and thank you for making time to be on the show today.

[01:14:20] Appreciate it. Take care. I so that's it for today's show. Tomorrow is Tuesday. We have the blueprint power hour. Uh, don't forget. Uh, if you would please email me at, on This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. and just simply put your full name. And the year you started listening to this show, the 19th of December, we're having our 15th year anniversary.

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