[00:00:00] Carl Lanore: [00:00:00] hey, welcome back to superhuman radio. We received an email from. Nathaniel Ruffino from Park Hill, Missouri and Nathaniel wrote me and said can you please talk about low carbs fat loss in the kinds of diets, like keto and metabolic diet and he specifically requested. Dr. Mal di Pasquale as an expert on these kinds of diets.

[00:00:20] It would be cool if you could get him on the phone on the phone with you and of course Mauro is always been a big supporter of superhuman radio and guess who I have on the show with me today Morrow. How you doing?

[00:00:30] Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale: [00:00:30] I'm doing great Carl  .

[00:00:31] Carl Lanore: [00:00:31] Yeah, and thanks again for making time to come on.

[00:00:34] Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale: [00:00:34] No problem.

[00:00:35] Carl Lanore: [00:00:35] Anyway, you know, you really are the go-to guy about this sort of stuff. I mean you really helped to popularize in what you call the metabolic diet the importance of Shifting as you like the cold phase shift dieting to shift the carbohydrate consumption depending on what you're trying to achieve.

[00:00:54] So let's so let's talk a little bit about this. First of all, we when [00:01:00] we talk about the metabolic diet, is it the same thing as the ketogenic?

[00:01:03] Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale: [00:01:03] Well, first of all, let me let me let me just give you a bit of History. Sure. I've been around a long time back in the 60s when I was going into medical school.

[00:01:13] I looked into. I was bodybuilding at the time, you know using weights the local local health food store, which I went about 20 miles to go to had Brewers East and desiccated liver and protein powders, you know, so I was using that stuff when I was 14 15 16. And I started thinking about the diet itself and when I entered medical school I started looking at insulin and this is what sparked my interest in phase shift iding other words, how can you control influence?

[00:01:46] So that doesn't lay down fat so it keeps up protein synthesis. In other words, how can you get the best effects of insulin and not have the adverse effects such as gaining body fat? So this is started it also over the years. For many years [00:02:00] I kind of used it on myself when I was powerlifting and I achieved World Championship level in powerlifting and I Wonder World Games and North American Pan-American Etc.

[00:02:10] And I use the dye to maximize my performance and my body composition. I was a rift powerlifter. I lifted variously classes getting my body fat levels down to three four five percent. While the fish is dying, so, you know, I've had a lot of experience doing it, but I and I had other people on it over the years but I didn't really do any writing on until the late 1980s early 1990s.

[00:02:39] So and that and that's when I brought out my aunt about diet. That was the first time for OKC of die.

[00:02:44] Carl Lanore: [00:02:44] Hi, let's talk about a couple different things. First of all people talk about ketogenic diets. When does a person actually enter the the. The ketosis phase if you will it is a demented to the other be completely depleted of carbohydrates entirely [00:03:00] or some.

[00:03:00] Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale: [00:03:00] Okay. I mean when you decrease carbohydrates your body tries to make that up by producing ketones, basically what it does it takes body fat breaks it down into two carbon units that you can use in the Krebs cycle. To make energy to make energy in other words you need energy to live so somehow you got to get it somewhere.

[00:03:18] You don't Supply the carbs the body goes to body fat and it also goes to protein. Although protein is a much more sophisticated way of producing the sugars you need or the energy you need. So, alright, so if you cut down on carbs, you're going to make more. So whether and I mean, that means eat well first let me say you're always making ketones the body always makes ketones.

[00:03:44] It's the level of ketones it varies according to the how much carbs you take in. So if you cut your carbs by say a half you're going to produce more ketones at first until your body adjusts. If you cut the carbs are completely you're going to lose a lot more ketones because your body is going to depend on those for most of the energy [00:04:00] needs at that point.

[00:04:01] Carl Lanore: [00:04:01] Does the body have a preference? Is there substrate preference that a prefers, you know glucose over ketone.

[00:04:07] Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale: [00:04:07] Well, I mean body uses what it has

[00:04:10] Carl Lanore: [00:04:10] but I mean if you're not in total ketosis and your body is still producing both ketones and glucose. Will it always use the glucose first preferentially

[00:04:19] Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale: [00:04:19] not necessarily?

[00:04:20] Okay 30 there was even a central nervous system people think the glucose is the preferred fuel for the for the brain versus are. In fact, there are studies that show that lactate. Is more preferred Fuel and the ketones are readily used both by the neurons and by the other cells like a sites which helped in your owns as far as its energy metabolism.

[00:04:42] So it's pretty complex. But yeah, it'll use both and it will use what it gets and not necessarily one over the other.

[00:04:48] Carl Lanore: [00:04:48] Hey Mauro, we're going to take a quick commercial break and when we come back, I want to pick up on this. I want to delve a little bit deeper into. The the proper utilization of carbohydrates and a lot of people are scared of carbs today.

[00:04:59] We're [00:05:00] talking today with dr. Marla dipasquale. About different Dives at types of diets and their variable carbohydrates stay tuned. We'll be right back.

[00:05:15] Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale: [00:05:15] It's super

[00:05:15] Carl Lanore: [00:05:15] human

[00:05:17] Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale: [00:05:17] radio.

[00:05:25] Welcome

[00:05:26] Carl Lanore: [00:05:26] back to Super Mario. We're talking today with dr. Mal di Pasquale. About the variables in diets, especially as it relates to carbohydrate consumption consumption Model A lot of people are really afraid of carbs today, aren't they?

[00:05:40] Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale: [00:05:40] Well, yeah, I think the pendulum has swung a sword in the opposite direction first, you know, everybody was afraid of fat.

[00:05:47] So the whole diet, you know, the ornish diet Etc all low-fat diets supposed to promote cardiovascular health bodybuilders run low fat sort of complex carb high protein diets. [00:06:00] So but things have changed, you know, now people are looking at carbs as being more of a villain than even fat

[00:06:06] Carl Lanore: [00:06:06] right. Well, and you know what?

[00:06:08] I don't think you can say carbs as a general rule because it's the types of carbs. I mean, I think refined sugars they are a villain but I mean cards in general not necessarily the villain right? Would you agree with that statement

[00:06:21] Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale: [00:06:21] a certain extent, you know things have changed. I mean South Beach.

[00:06:23] Sorry for example is the one of the first. To go worldwide and then say that certain carbs are okay refined carbs are not complex carbs are get your carbs from your vegetables your whole wheat and things like that. But if you're looking to maximize body composition the whole idea of what carbs is different than for, you know, the average person for example, take take post-exercise carbs the thinking now and all the research shows that you need protein and carbs after you exercise the maximize the anabolic effects of exercise.

[00:06:56] This map is that how you feel?

[00:06:57] Carl Lanore: [00:06:57] Yes. I mean, I well I shouldn't say [00:07:00] yes because more recently I've turned to believe that it's pre-workout nutrition that actually may be more valuable. But that is the common what you're saying is the common thought right now.

[00:07:09] Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale: [00:07:09] Okay, let me let me tell you that both pre-workout and post-workout are important.

[00:07:14] Okay right now post-workout carbs. Exercise increases insulin sensitivity right decreases decreases glycogen so that when you stop exercising through gone through a vigorous exercise program. The first thing your body does in the priority is to increase glycogen levels in the body muscle and hepatica liver.

[00:07:35] Okay. Now as soon as it does this insulin sensitivity drops,  so here we have the scenario after you've trained you load up on carbs and protein. Within an hour or so your insulin sensitivity is no longer there. Basically now it's advantageous to keep your insulin sensitivity high for many hours after exercise.

[00:07:56] And how do you do that? Basically, you cut out carbs you make sure the [00:08:00] energy content is high and you make sure that the fat level for example and protein levels are high but but no carbs. Here's the. Even though insulin is basically tied to glucose update. It also enhances amino acid uptake and protein synthesis and the use of fatty acids as a primary fuel after exercise.

[00:08:21] Now people don't realize this so by decreasing or keeping insulin sensitivity High by not allowing glycogen levels to build up to you know, where would

[00:08:31] Carl Lanore: [00:08:31] topple to top off? Yeah,

[00:08:32] Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale: [00:08:32] you actually can maintain an anabolic effect for many hours after exercise much more so than taking a carb now.

[00:08:38] Carl Lanore: [00:08:38] Could I do the do the same thing?

[00:08:39] Could you do the same thing by just eating low glycemic index carbs like an oatmeal or you know something because I know that the the the common practice today is to go right for dextrose. He's really, you know, insulin spiking.

[00:08:52] Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale: [00:08:52] Yeah, that's that. That's that's great. If you're a long-distance Runner and your carb dependence, and actually I've got marathon runners now [00:09:00] on low carb diets and it's working quite well, but if that's what you're after if you're after maximizing glycogen levels and in your muscles Etc, yeah.

[00:09:10] Take the you know, a really high glycemic carbs right after you train, but that's not going to give you the body composition that you want. I mean bodybuilders and power athletes. They're looking to maximize muscle mass minimize body fat. The best way to do that is get away from carbs after exercise.

[00:09:23] And I you know, I'm writing actually a technical book on my face shift ice. It's going to be about 500 pages.

[00:09:32] Carl Lanore: [00:09:32] Wow, thank God. He wasn't real you and Randy my God guys who write books that end up becoming instead of Randy's book isn't a coffee table book. It's a coffee table.

[00:09:41] Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale: [00:09:41] And and that's only the first volume.

[00:09:44] Right?

[00:09:45] Carl Lanore: [00:09:45] Right. No. No,

[00:09:46] Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale: [00:09:46] so you're so you're no insulin.

[00:09:48] Carl Lanore: [00:09:48] So I want to make sure I'm clear you. So what you're saying is if I'm interested in re partitioning am I'm interested in shedding fat building muscle my post workout nutrition should consist of healthy fats. [00:10:00] And protein to a high degree and virtually no, no carbohydrates whatsoever

[00:10:04] Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale: [00:10:04] for hours after.

[00:10:06] Carl Lanore: [00:10:06] Now that is that that flies in the face of what would be Butch being propagated. This is really interesting to me.

[00:10:11] Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale: [00:10:11] Yeah.

[00:10:11] Carl Lanore: [00:10:11] Yeah. What what will I end up? Okay. So now now there is the question through gluconeogenesis. Well, I end up topping off those glycogen stores. Anyway, just a long over throughout the Long Haul in other words

[00:10:22] Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale: [00:10:22] over the Long Haul.

[00:10:23] Yeah interesting. Yeah, but if they take many hours you keep suboptimal levels of glycogen in the muscle for many many hours if you limit carbon takes.  Wow,

[00:10:33] Carl Lanore: [00:10:33] this is really intriguing.

[00:10:35] Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale: [00:10:35] The other thing too is the insulin sensitivity also increases perfusion of muscles. So if you keep the insulin sensitivity High, you actually get more nutrition to the muscle.

[00:10:47] And you get an enhanced anabolic effect for protein synthesis and an increased use of fat. I mean, it's it's all positive,

[00:10:55] Carl Lanore: [00:10:55] you know, if we and that it's a lot of the friend of the show named David [00:11:00] Barr had who would come on the show and talked about the importance of pre-workout nutrition actually being more important than post workout nutrition.

[00:11:06] And I think he was in the right he was going in the right direction. But but the reasoning behind it I can see why that's why it's probably better to have a slightly. High glycemic carbohydrates pre-workout despite that insulin pre-workout because I get a much better pump when I have a good high glycemic index carbs right before my workout and that's because what you're saying it increases perfusion.

[00:11:30] Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale: [00:11:30] Yeah, it increases for feeling but you gotta also be careful even pre-workout now, you know that that's complex as well. But let me tell you one thing. For example, a lot of people feel that way protein is a great protein for post-workout. You know broken huge amount of whey protein actually whey protein undergoes a gluconeogenic response very very quickly gets into the system fast larvae shunted into forming glucose.

[00:11:56] So you actually decrease insulin sensitivity of long [00:12:00] run by using just whey protein

[00:12:01] Carl Lanore: [00:12:01] and is that why that's why and that's obviously why there's several studies done on diabetics where if they included a whey protein drink with their meal. They had a higher insulin response.

[00:12:12] Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale: [00:12:12] Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:12:13] That's the first thing. So anyways. It to me and the reasons for this and the theory can be pretty complicated. Also, not everybody knows everything that's going on. By the way. I mean, there's igf-1 just growth hormone testosterone Allah carb diet in my view for several reasons increases testosterone levels.

[00:12:32] So that's also add to the anabolic effect, but it's but it's it is complicated. That's why I'm bringing a whole book on it because so many people asking questions aren't

[00:12:40] Carl Lanore: [00:12:40] when do you think the book of yours?

[00:12:41] Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale: [00:12:41] Anybody here know

[00:12:43] Carl Lanore: [00:12:43] how

[00:12:43] Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale: [00:12:43] to work online references? Yeah.

[00:12:46] Carl Lanore: [00:12:46] No, I understand that. Let's talk about gluconeogenesis for a second gluconeogenesis occurs in the liver.

[00:12:52] Correct?

[00:12:53] Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale: [00:12:53] Yes.

[00:12:53] Carl Lanore: [00:12:53] Okay. Is it possible if you're on a ultra low carbohydrate protocol [00:13:00] for a long period of time to deplete your livers ability to continue to convert the necessary molecules into glucose.

[00:13:08] Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale: [00:13:08] No,

[00:13:08] Carl Lanore: [00:13:08] so that there's no there's no real hepatic stress from gluconeogenesis.

[00:13:12] Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale: [00:13:12] No, okay. Really? I mean the body is the body is that's what it does the liver does that it forms glucose.

[00:13:20] If you look at the Krebs cycle intermediates, this is to give you an idea most of the energy in your body that you use for living comes through actions in the Krebs cycle and oxidative phosphorylation, which means you need oxygen to produce a maximum amount of energy. Okay, now fat can be shunted through the cycle protein can be shunted through the cycle asking carbohydrates.

[00:13:43] So all of these can produce large amounts of ATP, there is no essential carbohydrate. Huh? You don't need carbohydrates in your body. Your body is really quite well able to produce whatever carbs you need for whatever purpose. Okay, and there are different reasons for using carbs [00:14:00] besides simply using it for energy.

[00:14:02] But there are as you know, essential fatty acids and there are essential amino acids without those you won't survive but there's not one essential carb

[00:14:11] Carl Lanore: [00:14:11] interesting. You know what I never thought about it that that's actually very true. And that's obviously because when we were Kate people there were long periods of time where we didn't have carbs.

[00:14:19] So our body had to be able to take the things that were readily available and there's probably more often fats and proteins readily available and convert them to carbohydrates.

[00:14:29] Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale: [00:14:29] You know, you mentioned before

[00:14:30] Carl Lanore: [00:14:30] way my Marlo Marlo we're going to we're going to take a quick commercial break now hold that hair.

[00:14:33] You got the thought that you were just like, okay. All right, when we come out of the break, I want to pick up where we left off. We're talking today with Doctor Moll dipasquale about the variations in carbohydrates and different diets and their effects on your body. Stay tuned. We'll be right back.

[00:14:54] Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale: [00:14:54] Thanks

[00:14:59] Carl Lanore: [00:14:59] for [00:15:00] sitting through that commercial break. Remember? Whenever possible patronize the sponsors of this show because they make the show possible if you like what I'm doing here spend a buck as we say in Brooklyn. My guest today is dr. Mal. Di Pasquale. We're talking about the variable content of carbohydrates and different diets and their effects.

[00:15:19] So, dr. Depasquale you were saying something as we went into the break.

[00:15:23] Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale: [00:15:23] Yeah, when I was going to say is the body's amazingly versatile and transforming whatever yes into energy. You know, we've gone through periods. I mean our genetics has gone through periods of starvation periods where there's no carbs available.

[00:15:38] I'm sure periods when there's been only scrubs to eat, you know, right so we can turn just pretending and energy and we have a process by which we can do is we can take fast we can run it through the Krebs cycle. We can change it into various other compounds. We don't have the ability to make some of the intermediates in the Krebs cycle.

[00:16:00] [00:15:59] And I don't want to introduce complex terms like and of neurosis and kind of fluorosis and stuff like that. All it really people need to know is that you can make almost anything anytime from anything except what you want to do is maximize performance and body composition. If you're trying to do that, then you have to follow certain guidelines and that's where my phase shift is came in.

[00:16:20] You know, I didn't do it. So people could be couch potatoes are there so people can maximize the performance and bodybuilding powerlifting and now actually even endurance event. Yeah, that's fascinating. That's

[00:16:32] Carl Lanore: [00:16:32] fast. I know it's really interesting to me. I interviewed. Dr. Loren cordain from the University.

[00:16:38] I want to say of Colorado. I hope I got that right he'll get mad at me if not, and and and you know, he wrote the the original book The the Paleo. You know give him a group of him and his colleagues. They took an anthropological look at Paleolithic human beings because they said that was the last period where humans ate what they were supposed to eat as opposed to the [00:17:00] influence of the Agricultural Revolution blah blah blah blah blah and He Came Upon This same conclusion you did that you first talked to me about you you told me about in this.

[00:17:10] You know when we were when we were living in those days, sometimes we would eat meat for months because we would come upon a couple animals and kill him and that's all we ate and the Winter's came and you didn't eat vegetables or anything like that. All you had was meat and he came upon the same same information.

[00:17:26] So clearly, you know, our bodies are designed to survive very easily and effectively on on exclusively proteins and fats.

[00:17:39] Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale: [00:17:39] There's no doubt about that. I mean, I mean red meat it's been maligned because of the cholesterol because of the saturated fat etcetera. But you know, it's the first one meets as a beer source of my no acids than any plant protein because this or whatever it is, it's high in certain vitamins.

[00:17:54] I ke and B-Complex vitamin B12 is plentiful meat. It's not even found in [00:18:00] vegetables. It's loaded with iron which easily absorbed unlike plant iron. For example, it's an excellent source of whole bunch of things potassium. Zinc magnesium what you want, but not only that I find it red meat when you're on a low carb phase shift diet, like my anabolic metabolic radical diet has an advantage hasn't definite anabolic effect on its own

[00:18:20] Carl Lanore: [00:18:20] really.

[00:18:21] Now, what do you attribute that to?

[00:18:23] Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale: [00:18:23] Well, I think it's a combination of maybe the way our genetics have been primed to use meat so efficiently right and to provide us with the energy and muscle mass performance that we need to survive. I mean our genes 10,000 years ago was basically whatever culture started right then you great extent.

[00:18:42] Our genes are hundreds of thousands of years old. We do have some Gene modifications in the in the last 10,000 years, but the really almost inconsequential compared to what happened before then interesting.

[00:18:54] Carl Lanore: [00:18:54] Now are you are you starting to integrate some of this? You know, the the apoe diet the blood diet.

[00:18:59] They [00:19:00] have all these different diets that have a genetic bench to them and I did a show on this and not too long ago. And I my takeaway was, you know, eat the way your ancestors ate because there's certain polymorphisms and growing up in the Mediterranean for instance versus, you know, Antarctica something like that.

[00:19:16] So do you do you have any feel for that?

[00:19:19] Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale: [00:19:19] Yeah. I know there is I mean there are differences, you know, well. We're all the same to a large extent but there are variations and everyone that make them more or less acceptable more, you know able to do better on some type of macronutrient complex as against another macro nutrient mix and the beauty about the phase shift diets.

[00:19:38] Is that every week. You're actually experimenting to see what works best for you. So by the time you've gone through, you know, three four months of the of of the phase shift dieting. You've got it down pat, right?

[00:19:48] Carl Lanore: [00:19:48] How do people get a copy of the phase shift diet.

[00:19:51] Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale: [00:19:51] Well, it's available on my sites a metabolic diet.com.

[00:19:56] you know, I mean I've been around [00:20:00] a long time and these diets have been in progress for. Over 400

[00:20:03] Carl Lanore: [00:20:03] I know that I know there's a lot of athletes that use your diets with great success. So it's clear to me that these are not whimsically designed and you know here today gone tomorrow protocols. These are these are found that in common common sense and science because they work for a lot of people.

[00:20:18] I mean, look at this kid. He you know, Nathan right Nathaniel Ruffino, he emails me and says he wants to know about this diet. I was at a bodybuilding show not too long ago, and I heard somebody talking about your diet. You know guy who Okay competitor a competitor.

[00:20:31] Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale: [00:20:31] So it definitely was a lot of climbers a lot of competitors on a diet.

[00:20:35] Here's another thing too. I had to I just had an email today from a chap who said, you know, I've tried a lot of the diet's etcetera and I sent him the the antibiotic solution for bodybuilders, which is basically the anabolic phase shift diet targeted with supplements and also, Using different, you know different diets different magnitudes and complexes different calories for whatever phase of [00:21:00] training you're in.

[00:21:00] Let's say you're in a bulk up phase. You're in a cut-down phaser pre-competition phase competition phase etcetera. Okay now heat sent me an email and I was trying to find it just now and I can't basically said this they think I'm on drugs.

[00:21:13] Carl Lanore: [00:21:13] Right, and we talked about that too before once before because I happen to know an athlete that you were working with and and he was accused of being on drugs because he had shifted to your diet protocol would that was a we talked about that almost a year and a half ago actually.

[00:21:28] Again with the athlete was but we actually talked about that. This is somebody that you guys took up over 300 pounds and then then then kind of Whittle them

[00:21:36] Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale: [00:21:36] back down again. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, we did good on them. But you know we had day by day people saying I wish I could find this because he's so surprises even my doctor thinks I'm taking steroids,

[00:21:46] Carl Lanore: [00:21:46] right?

[00:21:46] Yeah. That's how effective it is. And how much is the metabolic diet? I mean

[00:21:50] Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale: [00:21:50] the animals partner is thirty thirty nine ninety five. Falcon and

[00:21:56] Carl Lanore: [00:21:56] a downloadable, right? They can get an immediate. Yeah

[00:21:58] Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale: [00:21:58] PDF file is cheaper the [00:22:00] hard copies 3995 and I just finished the. Of the antibiotic solution for bodybuilders.

[00:22:06] Oh, wow, 2008 and it's just been on my bike. I haven't even updated information on the site yet.

[00:22:13] Carl Lanore: [00:22:13] Moral. Let's do this break. I want to talk more about that book when we come back. I want to ask you some questions what's different in it? Stay tuned listening to superhuman radio. We'll be right

[00:22:23] Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale: [00:22:23] back.

[00:22:29] Carl Lanore: [00:22:29] Tomorrow what's different about the new book for bodybuilders?

[00:22:34] Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale: [00:22:34] Well, you know, it's really a revision. It's not really a new edition. And what I did is I updated it. I brought in some more current theory explained a lot of the recent research about, you know, facial diets how it would work why it maximizes the anabolic effect body composition Etc.

[00:22:52] I also provided a food list. So people can actually look at a list of foods that's about four pages long of stuff. That's the best [00:23:00] for being on on the phase shift diet at least a low carb phase. Right and I explained a little more of the theory. You know, it just kind of brought it all up to date but I didn't put a lot more into it as far as Theory because I'm doing the book on the theory part.

[00:23:12] Carl Lanore: [00:23:12] I got you.

[00:23:13] Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale: [00:23:13] Okay, but it's about 50 pages bigger interesting and

[00:23:17] Carl Lanore: [00:23:17] and they're all they're all available on your website at metabolic diet.com.

[00:23:20] Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale: [00:23:20] They are ya

[00:23:21] Carl Lanore: [00:23:21] now ketone strips. Where do you stand you think they're necessary if you want to make sure that you're in ketosis. Can you even tell anything using ketone strips for urine?

[00:23:29] Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale: [00:23:29] I think the pretty useless. Yeah, if you keep a low carb, I mean it depends depends on your genetic makeup. You may be able to utilize the ketones quite readily so you won't see as much in the blood as someone who you know is not able to use them as readily and builds up more produces more. The other thing is after a while of being on the low-carb diet.

[00:23:48] You become more proficient in utilizing ketones, but not only that you don't produce as many ketones because you're starting to use a long chain fatty acids much more effectively as their direct energy source, so. Changes that take place in the [00:24:00] body. The measuring ketones in the urine re doesn't tell you heck of a lot.

[00:24:03] So I never even recommended my book.

[00:24:07] Carl Lanore: [00:24:07] That's interesting. You just said something that intrigued me. It's because I've always known that long train long chain triglycerides. Same thing right fatty acids and try grunts. Okay, long long chain triglycerides. Generally have to be stored and then kind of broken down a couple steps before they could be utilized as energy.

[00:24:24] So you're saying that if you're on a low carb diet long enough the body actually becomes efficient at utilizing them in their original state.

[00:24:33] Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale: [00:24:33] Oh definitely. Yeah. No, I mean the whole business of shunting long long chain fatty acids. Okay, let me explain as triglycerides are basically three long chain fatty acids tied together.

[00:24:46] Like a ribbon would glycerol molecule. Okay. Okay, so that when you break that glycerin fatty acid Bond, you release 3 fatty acids and a glycerin now the fatty acids can enter the [00:25:00] mitochondria directly by the L-Carnitine shuttle. This is where L-Carnitine comes in and I think most people are aware that it's an excellent a nutritional supplement, right but it-it-it shuttles.

[00:25:13] Okay. Let's back up just a bit. If you have short chain fatty acids, right and that's you know, two three four, five, six carbon lengths these enter the mitochondria directly. They don't they don't need to be shuttled through by another compound like carnitine. When you get long chain fatty acids, as you decrease carbs in your diet the body becomes much more efficient than just grabbing these and utilizing them directly and it breaks it down by beta oxidation and it breaks off to carbon units each time the carbon units to enter the energy chain and produce your ATP which is you know, the energy needs live and the energy you need for protein synthesis.

[00:25:50] Carl Lanore: [00:25:50] So is carnitine one of the supplements you recommend when someone is on one of the one of your phase shift diet, it's

[00:25:57] Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale: [00:25:57] in many of my supplements. That are the [00:26:00] maximize body composition.

[00:26:01] Carl Lanore: [00:26:01] Now, there's a couple different types of carnitine are out there. Correct. I mean there's yeah, right.

[00:26:05] Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale: [00:26:05] Yeah. It depends on how it's how it's bonded, you know, depending on how it should introduce into the body, but basically speaking these are

[00:26:14] Carl Lanore: [00:26:14] their preferred version that you think works the best.

[00:26:17] Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale: [00:26:17] Well, I think I think carnitine coupled with one of the Krebs cycle intermediates probably is probably the best of the two because not only do you provide your quarantine but you also provide some intermediates which allow the cycle to turn

[00:26:31] Carl Lanore: [00:26:31] which intermediates are we watching to mediate are we talking about her?

[00:26:34] Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale: [00:26:34] Oh aspartate citrate, you know. Isn't this what seven or eight of them that can be used now late? These are all compounds that are necessary to keep the Krebs cycle turning and producing the ATP. It's much more complex than this right now

[00:26:49] Carl Lanore: [00:26:49] right now. I know you can never cover it all I know that I know

[00:26:52] Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale: [00:26:52] that doesn't give I see a seminars on this and no matter how simple I tried to make it people fall asleep after five minutes.

[00:26:58] Carl Lanore: [00:26:58] Yeah because and but you know [00:27:00] what? I think my audience thrives on this sort of stuff, but I agree with you that it's much more complex. It's not something you can just say. Hey do this, but one thing that we. Safely in a hey do this fashion. Is that a feet, you know, people are confused about this and they want a solution.

[00:27:16] They can go to your website metabolic diet.com and buy one of the books and like I said, you know, I have no qualms with promoting your book because I know a lot of people who have used your diets and they've been effective and they've been around for a long time. They are tried and tested. So

[00:27:30] Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale: [00:27:30] yeah, they've been alone a long time.

[00:27:32] I mean II experiment on myself for almost 15 years before I even talked to many people about it.

[00:27:38] Carl Lanore: [00:27:38] Yeah. So the website is metabolic diet.com. There's about four or five different diets up there that you have.

[00:27:43] Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale: [00:27:43] Yeah,

[00:27:43] Carl Lanore: [00:27:43] are they are they really all that much different or can you buy one and pretty much

[00:27:48] Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale: [00:27:48] work with bodybuilder and you're looking for for maximum body composition?

[00:27:52] The best one is the anabolic solution for bodybuilders. Yeah, if you've got a lot of weight to lose a lot of fat to lose and you need to say you're 50 60 70 [00:28:00] pounds overweight and you're you know, 18 to 25 percent body fat then get the radical. Dye that will get you down to a level really quickly maintaining.

[00:28:08] Much muscle mass is possible. And from then you go on to the end box solution for bodybuilders, which is really an update of the of my original anabolic died. Only it couples the anabolic diet with the supplement. That makes it much more. Usable

[00:28:21] Carl Lanore: [00:28:21] hey Mauro, as always. Thank you very very much for being on the show today making time for my listeners, huh?

[00:28:26] Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale: [00:28:26] Yeah. Thanks for having me Carl.

[00:28:27] Carl Lanore: [00:28:27] Okay, and the go visit his website metabolic diet.com. You'll learn something even if you don't buy something but by something, all right. Listen, thanks again for listening to superhuman radio today. We'll have another show for you tomorrow. See you then.