[00:00:00] Carl Lanore: [00:00:00] hey, welcome back to superhuman radio. you know, we always find new Innovations in the ability to. Increase longevity in humans and we're always searching for this. Obviously. It's been around forever. I mean, we're always going to try to cheat death to some degree. It's our objective to live longer live happier lives.
[00:00:22] And so every now and then I come across a study or some work that has some promise and that's what today's show is about. My guest today is dr. Mikhail blackest Coney, but we're going to refer to you as Misha, right?
[00:00:35] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:00:35] All right,
[00:00:36] Carl Lanore: [00:00:36] okay, and we're going to be talking about. Something called rapamycin we've actually talked about it on the show in the past, but we're going to talk about it today in a slightly different context.
[00:00:46] So first of all for my listeners, we should explain what rapamycin is.
[00:00:51] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:00:51] Actually a prescription drug, which is used to prevent organ rejection after organ [00:01:00] transplantation. And it's also now used it's an Alex is anti-cancer drugs. So this is all drug. It was discovered long ago. But only recently something amazing actually happened with realized that this is a drug that suppresses each and agent from warm and flies right my mouth,
[00:01:31] Carl Lanore: [00:01:31] right?
[00:01:31] It starts out with the the elegant assists. What is it called the the worm that they worked with originally?
[00:01:37] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:01:37] Yeah c elegans. Yeah
[00:01:39] Carl Lanore: [00:01:39] c elegans. Yeah. Now it's important to understand something rapamycin was. Discovered as a as a bacteria, correct on the Easter Island of Rapa Nui, and hence. That's where the name rapamycin came, right?
[00:01:52] And and right now it's manufactured by Wyeth under the name rap immune which is is used for as you pointed out individuals who [00:02:00] undergo organ transplant. They give them this medication so that their body doesn't reject the organ. So it's suppressor which suppresses the immune system correctly?
[00:02:09] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:02:09] Well, we're studying this right now.
[00:02:13] I would call it. It's it rejuvenate immune system because in Old mice it was shown that it's actually stimulating monitor. So. It's not such harsh immunosuppressant. So maybe it maybe
[00:02:32] Carl Lanore: [00:02:32] it almost has
[00:02:35] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:02:35] an adapted genic side to it then right and besides that in we think that in the right Doses and right formulations, it could be used without any immunosuppression.
[00:02:48] So at least mice live longer when they take rapamycin and. Their formation to lease cancer and humans [00:03:00] who are taking report mice and because of organ rejection, they have some side effects, but one of these side effect is that there is less cancer interesting interesting. So with such positive side effect.
[00:03:17] Carl Lanore: [00:03:17] Okay. Now there's lots of research into into chemoprevention. And and cancer drugs out there some of them work to re-establish cellular apoptosis While others seem to affect inflammation and the inflammatory response by the immune system. It sounds like wrapper myosin works. Through the ladder pathway.
[00:03:39] Am I correct in assuming
[00:03:41] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:03:41] that? Yes traditionally. It was taught the tropomyosin will directly kill cancer cells, but this is very non toxic drug and. In my opinion mechanism of chemo prevention that slows down organismal [00:04:00] aging. So this is beautiful situation and we may prevent cancer by staying here on because each agent is the major risk factor of cancer.
[00:04:14] Carl Lanore: [00:04:14] Right, you know what? I just thought of it just dawned on me to have you looked at the effects of rapamycin on the telomere.
[00:04:26] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:04:26] Well, we didn't we didn't
[00:04:29] Carl Lanore: [00:04:29] it would be interesting to see where I'm going with that right? You would be interesting because we know that as the telomere becomes shorter the probability of a mutant replication of that DNA becomes more prevalent and a lot of and there is some.
[00:04:43] Evidence that that could lead to certain types of cancers
[00:04:46] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:04:46] beautiful hips but one of the major mechanism of slowing down organismal agent because another treatment that [00:05:00] prolong life span calorie restriction, it deletes cancer in my soul my sleep longer and can see it you late because. Really hsf it disease especially prostate breast colon and so on my so if we slow down our region we can delay can soap he wanted and and in the same.
[00:05:30] We can prevent or delay other issues related diseases
[00:05:34] Carl Lanore: [00:05:34] right now. We're going and we're going to talk more about the different diseases that actually this is that its effects but let's just stay just for a moment longer on the longevity Effectiveness. As you mentioned a moment ago. There seems to be a relationship between rapamycin and hypochlorous very very Ultra low-calorie diets.
[00:05:50] We already know at least we thought we knew the mechanism that that hypochlorite diets work through by increasing search ruins. Is there a relationship between. [00:06:00] Search ruins and the mammalian Target of rapamycin.
[00:06:04] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:06:04] Well, actually I have a little bit different point of view. How can I make you some of calorie restriction?
[00:06:13] What is another name of Target of rapamycin Toro mtor its nutrient sensing pathway. So what nutrients are doing glucose proteins amino acids this stimulate tour and we stimulate and tour they accelerate aging. So when we live or my Sleepless we animals tour is the activate slightly but rapamycin deactivated strongly.
[00:06:45] So in this it could be much more potent life-extension treatment that calorie restriction and besides it actually it was shown that it's probably will less appetite. [00:07:00] So people will even. Cliff and losing some weight and at the same time it it might be much more benign treatment in calorie restriction
[00:07:12] Carl Lanore: [00:07:12] interesting.
[00:07:13] And you know, when you talk about tour the target target of rapamycin, I'm trying to Envision. What tour is. Is this a receptor?
[00:07:24] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:07:24] Well if it's intersil. Protein signal transduction pathway and this is relatively low in Signal transduction pathway, but why I am talking about Tour all the time because it stands out because we have clinically available drug to inhibit it
[00:07:45] Carl Lanore: [00:07:45] right.
[00:07:48] And I didn't mean to cut you off. I'm just agreeing with you. I'm sorry.
[00:07:50] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:07:50] Yeah, so if you said correctly it was discovered. It is product which produced by bacteria and [00:08:00] bacteria produce it to inhibit growth of East. So it's something opposite to mirror image of binitarianism. So by in the growth is drink to it.
[00:08:16] Because when we stop growing with start aging so Torres involved at the beginning in growth and then an agent for that reason republicanism produced by bacteria inhibit growth of East but also inhibit their agent interesting now, there
[00:08:35] Carl Lanore: [00:08:35] is a drug on the market called a finit or which is an is an mtor.
[00:08:42] Inhibitor does that have the same effect as taking rapamycin by by inhibiting empty the the mammalian Target of rapamycin is that it does have the same effect.
[00:08:53] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:08:53] Well, there are several Inhibitors of mtor. Okay, [00:09:00] and some of them are not look so for the permits and those that analysis of rapamycin and they used mostly for cancer treatment.
[00:09:10] They have the same effect, but some drugs probably. Have a little bit different effects one Interesting Drug by the way is not for mean. This is well-known drug, which is used diabetes for diabetes.
[00:09:29] Carl Lanore: [00:09:29] It's actually the gold stamp metformin is the gold standard for diabetes treatment nowadays,
[00:09:33] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:09:33] right?
[00:09:33] And it's used for type 2 diabetes and. It was shown recently that it's also slightly increased lifespan and mice and increase insulin sensitivity and other benefits benefits, but recently turned out that this is indirect inhibitor [00:10:00] of
[00:10:00] Carl Lanore: [00:10:00] M2
[00:10:04] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:10:04] are in direct indirect and direct.
[00:10:05] Carl Lanore: [00:10:05] Okay. Let's take a quick commercial break.
[00:10:07] And when we come back, we're going to continue this conversation going to delve more into the potential longevity. Effects of rapamycin my guest today is Mikhail Vlados Coney. He likes me to call a Misha. Thank you for that because it's a lot easier stay tuned. We'll
[00:10:23] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:10:23] be right back want to
[00:10:26] Carl Lanore: [00:10:26] remind everybody that orbit nutrition is having a special supremum radio, listener 10% discount off their already low prices.
[00:10:39] At checkout use the coupon code shr 10, that's sa sh. 1 0 visit orbit nutrition.com.
[00:10:45] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:10:45] my
[00:10:48] Carl Lanore: [00:10:48] guest today is dr. Micha blackest coning. We're talking about rapamycin its effect on longevity.
[00:10:58] Make sure did you want to say [00:11:00] something before we went into the break? Did you want to finish her statement from?
[00:11:03] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:11:03] Are actually I am ready to continue. Yes. I have a lot of interested.
[00:11:11] Carl Lanore: [00:11:11] Okay. Let me ask you a question. One of the unique things about rapamycin was that it was as effective on older.
[00:11:19] Subjects in these studies mice for instance it even extended life in mice that were the equivalent of 60 years old and Youmans and human age, correct? I mean, so it was something that even though it was introduced later in life it still extended. All
[00:11:32] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:11:32] right, right, right. And actually this was predictable.
[00:11:38] I wrote about this in some my theoretical papers even four years ago. So basically if my son inhibits agent it delays each related diseases so it delays [00:12:00] causes of death. So it doesn't really treat diseases but delays, for example, if somebody has osteoporosis, which is H related disease, right? In this case by inhibiting agent we can delay was to paralysis.
[00:12:22] Carl Lanore: [00:12:22] So basically what you're really doing is you're not slowing down the clock.
[00:12:26] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:12:26] Yeah the clock but if person with osteoporosis have a broken Heap in this case, but my son will not help
[00:12:35] Carl Lanore: [00:12:35] a little slow the healing down.
[00:12:37] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:12:37] Yeah, right. So the same with everything else, for example, it can delay the progression of atherosclerosis, but if stroke average a occurs, for example, it cannot repair, you know,
[00:12:54] Carl Lanore: [00:12:54] you know what I find interesting and I look at I I did a show last year [00:13:00] with a I want and I tried to dig this up during the break and I couldn't find it fast.
[00:13:04] But I did a show last year. I interviewed a scientist from Canada. I believe he was in Quebec and they had published a study up there. Then it was glucose signaling that lead to Advanced aging and they had done these these studies and yeast and then in C along Al guante and then they were doing them in mice and it was glucose signaling and at the thing I find interesting is that.
[00:13:30] One of the one of the natural natural supplements that is supposed to also have an effect on longevity and health is is Resveratrol its ability to up reg search you as well. The interesting thing about Resveratrol is what Resveratrol was found to be as effective on a milligram per milligram basis as metformin.
[00:13:54] And managing blood glucose. So when you said that about metformin a moment ago, and you said you know that has the [00:14:00] ability to also have some of these effects and indirectly lower mtor and I and all of a sudden I thought well, maybe that's all you know what we're learning here. I think more than anything else you got it's not there's no one thing it's actually an orchestrated thing group of things that have to happen
[00:14:17] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:14:17] isn't.
[00:14:18] Right, but it did it for a million and Resveratrol they in directly inhibit tour M2. Are you die? Yes, I'll withhold this and some other scientist also publish this data that Resveratrol and high dose. Inhibits interactivity but indirectly, so when I am talking about Target of Resveratrol I say indirectly mtor is very thorough.
[00:14:52] Okay? Okay
[00:14:54] Carl Lanore: [00:14:54] now so now so now the the the the rapper myosin extended life the equivalent of [00:15:00] 30 percent.
[00:15:02] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:15:02] Well, actually it was one study and the permits and was started late in life. So it would be interesting to see if it started in middle life. It should not be started. Of course in young in America growing, right?
[00:15:23] Yes. This is pure second. It's not clear what formulations and doses should be used. It's not clear how it should be combined with diet. We're working on this important questions because. We need to develop Rapport myosin, which is not even surprised if at all right at Sajid Doses and formulations, or you can combinations with some other drugs for example with it for me.
[00:15:55] And so there is a lot of possibilities [00:16:00] but. What is important about repair my son did unlike other investigational drugs? It's inhuman used for many years
[00:16:11] Carl Lanore: [00:16:11] well, and and and and and because it's a was actually used for a while as an antifungal before it was used as a chemo protective, right?
[00:16:18] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:16:18] Right and besides it.
[00:16:21] It was many style studies that information was started for almost every year existing age related disease and this study were done by experts in different fields. And when I collect together all these data is become clear that the reason why rapamycin could be used for atherosclerosis Parkinson's disease for example,
[00:16:54] Carl Lanore: [00:16:54] and also Harbors disease to they're having success with it, right?
[00:16:57] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:16:57] Well this animal [00:17:00] models in animal models,
[00:17:04] Carl Lanore: [00:17:04] right? That's right, right.
[00:17:05] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:17:05] Yeah, so in this animal models, so why one drug? Could be used for such different applications and then say is that mechanism of action is slowing down inhibiting agent. So all aging age-related diseases have a common component which is inhibited by this one single drug.
[00:17:31] That's
[00:17:32] Carl Lanore: [00:17:32] it's amazing. Yes. I mean a real, you know. I mean, we're always looking for and even pharmaceutical companies are always looking for a single drug that has multiple benefits, but rapamycin really really does seem to be that.
[00:17:48] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:17:48] Right. This is what I probably just and including how we can use it for example for treatment and prevention [00:18:00] advantages and then in the same patients to try to observe its effect on other disease because then all the people several diseases usually coexist right could be high blood pressure if it could be diabetes.
[00:18:16] Obesity and macular degeneration and so on by the way, it was very interesting story about macular degeneration
[00:18:28] Carl Lanore: [00:18:28] of the diatom of the ocular disease macular
[00:18:32] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:18:32] degeneration. Okay. Okay. This is a few major cause of blindness and there is no very effective treatment. And when five years ago, I realized that rapamycin is actually engage in drug for humans.
[00:18:54] In this case. It should slow down all diseases. [00:19:00] So I. Wait mental experiment. I choose 1 TC is which I was not familiar. It was macular degeneration. And and I went to after Mall adjust. My good friend asked did he hear about the parmesan because I thought he would say yes, and it was not no one but.
[00:19:25] After one year, I want it very successful company started developing for my son in California for treatment of macular degeneration. Really? Yes, they started doing this for different professionals. They worked on this for many years before. So it was not my influence of course, but but they found this coincidence that theory work.
[00:19:54] So it does it does
[00:19:58] Carl Lanore: [00:19:58] work that does it [00:20:00] does it just slow the progression of the disease or does it reverse
[00:20:03] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:20:03] it? Well, I quote information only from website of this company, so. It was not complete disclosure. Okay.
[00:20:19] Carl Lanore: [00:20:19] Now we're going to take a break in just a moment. But if we could just address one other thing that I have a special interest in you said that wrapper myosin seem to benefit.
[00:20:27] Those who suffer from Parkinson's disease. Once again, does it just slow the progression of the disease or can actually keep the disease at Bay and definitely
[00:20:35] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:20:35] well if we're talking a lot about humans, but about animal models, right and in animal models these diseases slow slightly different, but basically what repair my son is doing is decrease synthesis of this abnormal proteins and increase.
[00:20:55] Sales each and still can eat this abnormal proteins if [00:21:00] you decrease over activation of cell, so because Phil overactivation conventionally cause damage gotcha. All right, let's
[00:21:11] Carl Lanore: [00:21:11] do this. Let's take a quick commercial break and when we come back, I've got some more questions for you. We're talking about rapamycin today.
[00:21:19] And its ability to lengthen life stay tuned. We'll be right back. Hey, this is Carl before teen years. You've heard me talk about can see eye drops and they being the reason that I do not need reading glasses at now 61 years old, but I regularly get emails and messages from people who've been using can see and having some amazing results.
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[00:22:16] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:22:16] It's
[00:22:16] Carl Lanore: [00:22:16] superhuman
[00:22:18] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:22:18] radio.
[00:22:21] Carl Lanore: [00:22:21] Welcome back to super human radio. My guest today is dr. Mikhail like a Stony we're talking about rapper myosin and its. On longevity. I just want to mention something. There is a banner ad on supremum radio.com for GLC. Mm buy one get one free and you really have to call their phone number their toll-free 800 number if you click the link that's on the website and once you go to their website call the 800 number and tell them you are a listener of superhuman radio and they will it's an outstanding.
[00:22:58] GLC mm is already [00:23:00] the least expensive highest potency glucosamine chondroitin product on the market and getting a buy one get one free is like getting it for half price. So it's out stands to check them out GLC direct.com. Make sure the obviously the big concern and you mentioned that the the role now is to find rapamycin that does not inhibit.
[00:23:23] Immune function obviously, but what if what if part of the benefits of rapamycin are because it does inhibit immune function what if some of the aging process is actually self-imposed so to speak a process that the immune system over time starts to maybe attack the body.
[00:23:46] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:23:46] All right, actually, this is really good put that you just said because people don't realize this that each gene is associated with autoimmune diseases [00:24:00] and increase immunity and something hyper immunity and inflammation in general also is associated with aging so.
[00:24:11] If I would say different way to look at this report, my son is labeled is immunosuppressant because it's it it is sold for this purpose. It could be labeled anti-cancer drug contagion or anti-inflammatory for example, like aspirin, right? So in this case if it would be called until. I told you we would not be worrying.
[00:24:44] Carl Lanore: [00:24:44] When what we wouldn't worry about its immunosuppressive agents because it's worth focusing on something else,
[00:24:51] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:24:51] right so that have waited different immunosuppressants and rapamycin is very [00:25:00] benign. I would say but what is important is to develop? And formulations that it will be lower Doses and so on which would exclude any side effects because rapamycin would developed specifically for those Ascent schedules specifically for transplant patients for as anti-rejection drug.
[00:25:37] No,
[00:25:38] Carl Lanore: [00:25:38] I'm sorry. No, go ahead.
[00:25:39] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:25:39] Now we need to redevelop with and actually we're gonna sit spin off with Russell Parker company 30th, which is now working on this to develop Rapport. Meissen is anti-aging drug. [00:26:00] Are
[00:26:00] Carl Lanore: [00:26:00] you seeing resistance about I mean? I realized that more and more people in medicine are starting to get the idea that those of us who have been on the front end of anti-aging.
[00:26:10] It's not about finding a younger wife and and looking young. It's about staving off age-related disease and I think that the term anti-aging is almost become whitewashed with zealots who would Infuse their bodies with dangerous things just to look younger. And are you a do you see any difficulty when you start talking about rapamycin as an anti-aging agent.
[00:26:39] Do you have your key your colleagues? Look at you like oh, you know Ponce de Leon. Here we go.
[00:26:45] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:26:45] All right, and also there is not the problem here most scientists who work in ijen. They not familiar with clinical use of rapamycin. So at [00:27:00] first especially many years ago when I was talking about that the action from basic scientist was that but you cannot use for my season in humans.
[00:27:11] If voice and we use it in the laboratory and I was saying but it's already used in humans. So then the sea but at first you need to check the affected mice at least I said it was all done 30 years ago. So it was developed and approved by if d e by in almost all countries. So now we just need to take advantage and amazing and that that if many people are ready take in Reformation, we can study this patients for something else.
[00:27:57] For example. [00:28:00] One cancer prevention. One said it's clear which is by the way. The information is also used on coronary stents on
[00:28:13] Carl Lanore: [00:28:13] what carotid stents
[00:28:15] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:28:15] you said coronary stents its stance. Which completed.
[00:28:21] Carl Lanore: [00:28:21] Oh, yeah, coronary stents. Yeah because they are right now they use what was the I know talking about okay and and Plavix they have the Plavix tint and so on and so.
[00:28:29] Um, yeah, so
[00:28:31] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:28:31] so to prevent restenosis of Artesia, so it was another study and which stands was used without permission but repair my son was taking Perros or earlier, right? And it also helped to prevent these Technologies. So it means that my son actually mm reduce. Griffin and humans [00:29:00] it was shown in mice that it's delete to the sclerosis in my special genetic mites, which have it very fast.
[00:29:14] So another very interesting side effect, which is observed in it. Almost it almost seems
[00:29:23] Carl Lanore: [00:29:23] like rap a myosin. Yeah, does the correct everything that is wrong with our societies the way of eating and living it's almost it's you know, it reduces inflammation. It slows down aging and as a result of slowing down aging it has a profound effect on.
[00:29:46] A myriad of diseases.
[00:29:47] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:29:47] Right? Right. And so and
[00:29:48] Carl Lanore: [00:29:48] it's almost like it. What at what if rapamycin was to become an anti-aging drug and what probably talking about decades Decades of research and so on and so forth. But if it were [00:30:00] to become an anti-aging drug at what age would it be introduced if this was an elective drug that the pharmaceutical company would jump on if they they thought they could get people to walk into every.
[00:30:10] Doctor's office and say okay I want rapamycin now because I'm getting it to that age. What would be the age that they would be introduced 35
[00:30:19] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:30:19] 40 45. Well, I would say. For women at least I think it should be started immediately after menopause. Okay, good point and. For me when I think it should be started at low doses something from the age of 34 35 40.
[00:30:49] I think you're
[00:30:50] Carl Lanore: [00:30:50] going to want to say immediately after marriage.
[00:30:54] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:30:54] Ha ha ha it can be careful because it's at least at high [00:31:00] doses. But now it's used in high doses in high doses. It's decreased proliferation and it also might decrease in fertility reproduction ability. But but the moment when. Your son is taken then when it's discontinued.
[00:31:22] It should restore it. And
[00:31:24] Carl Lanore: [00:31:24] that's a good point. That's a good point. If the animals that were given rapamycin did any of them have rapamycin withdrawn at some point in their life span to see what the effects were when it with withdrawn. Did they catch back up to their normal chronological age and die on time or did they still have a prolonged life?
[00:31:47] Equivalent
[00:31:48] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:31:48] to the period of time. They took rapamycin. Well, if it was only two studies so far one effect of rapamycin of my when charity in normal mice and comes prone. So [00:32:00] this is very interesting question what you are asking what? We will need to study this and especially we will need to study low doses of reformation because.
[00:32:17] I think that there's no reasons that it should be used in the same doses which anti-cancer or until ejection those has so my hope that those Doses and it should be probably have some windows some breaks relief rest from Reformation. So there are. Hello to start an hour to do how to use rapamycin for new indication.
[00:32:53] Carl Lanore: [00:32:53] You know, I when I think of rapamycin I think about those old science fiction movies [00:33:00] like Flash Gordon and such where when when astronauts were going to undergo time travel because they were going to travel at the speed of light. They would step into a capsule that would cryogenically freeze them or stop them from aging and they would travel for you know, 50 years but not age because they would wake up and they would be they would be 50 years later, but they it was like they only slept for an hour and it sounds to me like that's what rap a myosin is in a capsule.
[00:33:27] It kind of It kind of suppresses all aging momentarily or for as long as you take it and as a result the. The finish line of your life and all the diseases that aren't you encounter at the finish line of your life is extended further out.
[00:33:44] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:33:44] Yeah, I believe that of course. It was not shown in humans, but I expect that but what another expectation that of course, we will not be [00:34:00] mortal of course taking rapamycin right because because.
[00:34:04] We will will
[00:34:05] Carl Lanore: [00:34:05] still wet. We're still going to wear out. It's just going to be a little bit little bit further. That's
[00:34:10] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:34:10] all it's or or maybe we will plant new causes of death new diseases. Yeah, I can which we don't even know now which unrelated to him Torah and twitching I can give example, for example in the past many people died from infections rise and and because of that.
[00:34:31] It was not well know when about let's say Alzheimer's disease. Right? Right. So when we start live longer eliminating causes of death the early in life, then we see each related diseases when we delay this maybe we can see something else but this will be just the collation by now.
[00:34:55] Carl Lanore: [00:34:55] I have to I have to agree with you with that.
[00:34:57] I think you're exactly right and I'm what as soon as you said that I [00:35:00] thought to myself. We gave up infectious disease for chronic disease. So maybe if we extend life through agents like rap amyas. And we end up living instead of the average age being 75. It starts to become a hundred and seven and a hundred fifteen which I'm at the mass population living this long.
[00:35:17] Now, we're going to encounter something other than chronic disease that will probably shorten a take our lives and then that will become the new Finish
[00:35:25] Line.
[00:35:26] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:35:26] That would actually perform exactly exactly.
[00:35:29] Carl Lanore: [00:35:29] Yeah. Okay, let's take a last commercial break and when we come back, we will finish up the interview stay tuned.
[00:35:34] You're listening to superhuman radio. We'll be right back.
[00:35:37] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:35:37] You're right. Ripped it superhuman radio.
[00:35:46] Welcome
[00:35:50] Carl Lanore: [00:35:50] back to Super you've already aware talk today with dr. McElroy like a Sony about the effects of rapamycin on longevity. Misha [00:36:00] if you had to guess how far out are we looking before you think assuming that everything keeps playing out in humans as it does in? In mice how long in the future do you think?
[00:36:11] We'll see? A real anti-aging drug on the market perhaps rapamycin.
[00:36:18] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:36:18] Well, I think it will be a pain myosin, but I think that it will not be labeled as an teach in the dark because if the tenant approve your anti-aging drug, and so this track will be approved for prevention or treatment particular each related.
[00:36:44] For example after the sclerosis or Parkinson's disease for example or cancer prevention,
[00:36:52] Carl Lanore: [00:36:52] but it all that it'll never be a rescue
[00:36:55] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:36:55] drug. Well, it will not be drug, which will be prescribed probably [00:37:00] just is anti-aging Inc for a while. At least you don't
[00:37:06] Carl Lanore: [00:37:06] you know that you know, the United States government published a study.
[00:37:11] In 2008, I think I did a show on it and it was it was the study was performed by the intelligence agency of the some arm of the intelligence agency and they looked at the most disruptive Technologies. And they classified disruptive Technologies is anything that could influence or affect the United States position in economically and geopolitically militarily there was five categories that something had to effect and if it affected any one of them that was in the study.
[00:37:53] and there are a lot of things in this study we. The effects of of what sort [00:38:00] of looking for renewable energy was one of the one of the things but the number one thing the number one thing that was in this study the number one disruptive technology that actually affected all five of the categories in the study.
[00:38:14] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:38:14] Aha
[00:38:15] Carl Lanore: [00:38:15] was Jared technology the the the the the approach of medicine to prolong life. And I have to tell you I I'm a little worried that drugs like these will not be made available because there may and I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I'm not saying that the oh, you know, the government wants us to die.
[00:38:38] But what I am saying is that I have a feeling that these are the types of drugs there than if they are labeled as anti-aging as you said, they won't be they will not be used the way they're supposed to be
[00:38:49] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:38:49] well earlier this. I think about my son if it will be developed for teaching purposes or [00:39:00] to for Jillian prevention of any disease.
[00:39:04] It will solve actually Healthcare crisis because. If people will not only live longer but will if healthier it's very well known that people who live more than 100 years. They very healthy almost all of their life, right? So. And this situation what we will observe that people will each healthier.
[00:39:39] They will each chronologically but not biologically so fast, so we'll give these has we'll start note that each let's say 70, but each 100 rice and. Actually because of that it will be less demand tone medicine. Yes conventional
[00:40:00] [00:39:59] Carl Lanore: [00:39:59] but you something but think about that they'll be less Demand on pharmaceutical drugs that do all of those jobs right now.
[00:40:05] You have you have the average 65 70 year old person taking at least three medications today one for blood pressure one for cholesterol and pick one, you know, and and so that's what I'm saying. It's. If because I look or you're preaching to the choir, I understand the importance of anti-aging and its ability to stable age-related disease,
[00:40:26] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:40:26] but they would not worry about this because unfortunately I wouldn't worry about this because if people.
[00:40:34] They can be used rocks. Now. Let's say from each of 60 to 80 then they will take in the same drugs from each 100.
[00:40:44] Carl Lanore: [00:40:44] I see what
[00:40:45] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:40:45] you're saying. Okay? Okay, so but but people would be able to work longer because they will be felt here. I think it will change dramatically age of retirement. Yeah, that will [00:41:00] grow so Society will be.
[00:41:03] Able to support healthcare because each of retirement will be probably shifted. When
[00:41:13] Carl Lanore: [00:41:13] do you foresee a human trial with rapamycin?
[00:41:17] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:41:17] Well human trials already going on because actually thousands of people
[00:41:26] Carl Lanore: [00:41:26] yeah, that was that was a stupid question because the but human trials are being done right now on people who are using it as.
[00:41:31] A cancer agent or an anti rejection agent. Right?
[00:41:35] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:41:35] Right. So these people
[00:41:35] Carl Lanore: [00:41:35] already have these people already have in their they're starting from below the tree line,
[00:41:41] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:41:41] right this what I. And my colleagues we want to organize there was some pilot studies in humans when it was used for other diseases like coronary [00:42:00] stenting and so on they were such studies but we want to organize clinical style studies in which we can use low doses of rapamycin right on people.
[00:42:14] Carl Lanore: [00:42:14] People who are relatively healthy, but just just aging and you know, see what that sort of like what you did with the mice.
[00:42:22] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:42:22] All right. So actually it was two studies and mice with study 10 cancer prone my aunt in a normal rice. It was another people said it
[00:42:32] Carl Lanore: [00:42:32] so what do you think? So what do you think actual clinical trials on just regular people with low doses would occur?
[00:42:39] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:42:39] Well, as I said with tufted company 30th spin-off or to Russell Park, and we hope to initiate some studies.
[00:42:53] Carl Lanore: [00:42:53] Yeah that this is really exciting. And when you say these low doses, what is it? What is the clinical dose of [00:43:00] rapamycin as an anti-rejection?
[00:43:02] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:43:02] Well, if usually two milligram per day and it was used high doses also, but not so what is
[00:43:13] Carl Lanore: [00:43:13] considered a high dose of rapamycin to 20 milligrams.
[00:43:17] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:43:17] No, no, no. No, I can see the current doses regular doses between two and five milligrams as high doses. Really. Yes
[00:43:27] Carl Lanore: [00:43:27] your clothes about load those you're talking like a hundred micrograms as a low dose.
[00:43:33] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:43:33] Well, I wouldn't like to say in your number at that moment. Okay? Okay, you know I
[00:43:42] Carl Lanore: [00:43:42] was just trying to get a feel for the range of dose.
[00:43:45] You know, it's just draw some drugs at those two three and four hundred milligrams Summit grams when you said 2 to 5 milligrams, I was thinking oh my gosh. That is a very powerful agent. Well in low doses going to have to be well under a quarter of a milligram right
[00:43:59] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:43:59] the [00:44:00] mode. It's extremely powerful agent and tinsel culture.
[00:44:05] For example, some normal cells. If you spawned to repair my season at doses decagrams really like running Millions right off.
[00:44:17] Carl Lanore: [00:44:17] Milligram.
[00:44:19] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:44:19] Yeah, and and the same time. When we increase those for example 1000 times over these dos which is already active. It's not toxic. Why because Serpa my son has only one target so m 2 are when when I'm tour is inhibited this no much sedative effect.
[00:44:44] Carl Lanore: [00:44:44] No interaction, right?
[00:44:46] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:44:46] Yeah, but in the organism is a little bit different because in organism we want. To let's say inhibit or in some organs. Let's see infective here. Of course, in fact [00:45:00] you here, but without much inhibiting of lymphocytes, right or just lightly inhibiting so with. Question of dozes formulations combinations with other drugs with the diet this could solve I think I think this will solve problem relatively soon because this drug coverage area in clinical use so.
[00:45:31] I want I want that, you know, it's
[00:45:36] Carl Lanore: [00:45:36] amazing because I have a good friend who had. Liver failure and he has a he had a replacement liver and I'm going to call him tonight and ask him if he's taking rapamycin. I wonder if he is but obviously even with individuals who have troubles like that rapamycin is going to have some benefits and per maybe prolonging their development of other unrelated diseases.
[00:45:57] So and it's really interesting stuff.
[00:45:59] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:45:59] Yeah, [00:46:00] yeah.
[00:46:02] Carl Lanore: [00:46:02] So what's the next step for your group? Are you are you on the verge of another study right now or what's.
[00:46:10] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:46:10] Well next what I believe now is most important to start clinical trials in humans because because we can do it in any morals hundred and hundreds times.
[00:46:26] It was done a lot already many it's already in clinic. It should be moved directly to human scent. I would say that it would be clinical trial. To which I would be qualified as a patient. I would join this myself.
[00:46:44] Carl Lanore: [00:46:44] That's how I was going to say. I maybe I'll send you my email address. You can put me on the list.
[00:46:47] I'll be interested in buying it my zen guide. Dr. Block is going to do you have anything you want to plug you have any upcoming books or anything like that or new companies you're looking for investors for
[00:46:57] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:46:57] well. We're developing [00:47:00] this company 30th and in detail. Trying to write the book on agent which a called preliminary or each Innovation which four very different point of view nature and like door driven process.
[00:47:19] Not a combination of molecular damage, but something like program like which we can really affected to switch or slow down at least interesting.
[00:47:30] Carl Lanore: [00:47:30] I would love to find out what effects. The rapamycin has on the telomere the whether it lengthens it or maintains its length and keeps it from getting shorter because that's that's something that happens with aging as well.
[00:47:42] On a genetic level we've come to the end of the interview
[00:47:45] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:47:45] Dr. Blackwell swivel doing this experiment for your yeah. I love that next time when you invite me to talk. I will tell you the results.
[00:47:52] Carl Lanore: [00:47:52] Oh, that's wonderful. That's wonderful. And I want to thank you very much. I know you're very very busy guy.
[00:47:56] I want to thank you for coming on the show today to talk about this very important subject.
[00:47:59] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:47:59] Thank you [00:48:00] cuddles.
[00:48:00] Carl Lanore: [00:48:00] Okay, and we will have another episode of superhuman radio for you tomorrow. We're doing an update on stem cell therapy. You're going to want to listen to this. I've. Dr. Michael Smith from Life Extension Foundation that's going to be on tomorrow.
[00:48:11] We're going to be talking about some really really exciting recent breakthroughs on stem cell therapy. So stay tuned. We'll talk to you then. Have a great day.
[00:48:37] You
[00:48:47] were listening to the Superhuman Channel don't hate
[00:48:50] Dr. Mikhail Blagosklonny: [00:48:50] us because we feel good.
