[00:00:00] [00:00:00] Carl Lanore: [00:00:00] Welcome back to another episode of super human radio. We have a great show planned today, a very important show, actually a show that validates some things I've said over the past 14 years about pregnancy and how fetuses get messages from their mothers, dietary habits. Uh, that set them up for the environment that they will be entering into.

[00:00:23] But before we do that, we have to thank our title sponsor, and that is legendary foods for gracing us with a generous donation, uh, that. Though contribution, I should say, right? A donation would be a taxes em. So, uh, eat legendary.com if you use the code SHR 10, you'll get 10% off all of their products. They have amazing products, great snacks, great snacks, great choices.

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[00:02:03] Look, I gave myself my covert 19 haircut, Alyssa, uh, we got a, uh, one of these little Clippers and she did it. And I gotta be honest with you. I love the way my hair looks like this. You could see more gray now, but more importantly, I think I'm going to just do this from now on. Okay. So let us move on to the, uh, important topic at hand, and that is my guests.

[00:02:28] Let me just drop this image here. And my guest today is dr men do. How are you doing, dr doom? I'm good. Thanks for being here. And I should say that you are a professor at Washington state university and the Nutrogenomix and growth biology lab, correct? Yes. Very good. Very good. And um, so, so you did a study recently and published a study that looked at the outcome of exercise during pregnancy and you use a rodent model, but a lot of this stuff [00:03:00] is, gets us on the paper.

[00:03:01] We can see things in rodents. And then you move on to obviously a human models. Why did you do this study? What, what, what, what preceded this? That you felt that this study needed to be done.

[00:03:14] Dr. Min Du, PhD: [00:03:14] Yeah. Basically, initially, we think that, uh, exercise right now, it's become less common. In general public, including impress a wallet.

[00:03:27] So we are thinking that it's off. Could there be a negative factor affecting fetal development? So we initially starting study with obese woman. Yeah. Cause obesity is a very common about the mosaic one. So the pregnant woman piece and a mosaic one. So the other white. But through all the study, we realized that maybe in the healthy woman, physically [00:04:00] fit woman, if not the exercise or lack of exercise, could also a factor which could the negative affect fetal development.

[00:04:09] So is that actually, is a study was best on

[00:04:12] Carl Lanore: [00:04:12] now from, from an evolutionary perspective, this makes perfect sense. And the reason I say that is, uh, from an evolutionary perspective. Uh, women were not treated differently when they were pregnant. They still had to go out. When we were Hunter gatherers, they still had to go out and forage for food.

[00:04:30] They had to contribute, uh, to the village they had to work. And even if we look at primitive cultures today around the world, intact primitive cultures, we see that when women get pregnant, they don't just lay around all day long waiting for the baby to be born. They still are involved in all the duties of life.

[00:04:47] Right.

[00:04:48] Dr. Min Du, PhD: [00:04:48] Yes, exactly. That's actually one of the reasons why we initiate the study. We are thinking that the genes are your evolution, long evolution, history, [00:05:00] actually people and the pregnant woman always. Active by active and the activity is necessary in order to get the food or in water to survive. But in modern society, since of course, we can less on the less common in general public, and especially in pregnant woman, some woman may sink that, uh.

[00:05:22] Excise could even for the fetus, it caused one that could be improved.

[00:05:28] Carl Lanore: [00:05:28] Now where do I want to stay with that for a second? That's a very important point. So  hundreds of years ago, a sign of affluence was that people didn't have to work hard. And when women got pregnant, they were treated like, like, like delicate eggs where, you know, they couldn't do anything.

[00:05:48] And because it was thought that if the woman worked hard that she could potentially abort the fetus, but then that message was carried through by modern medicine. I mean, even today, [00:06:00] doctors, uh, well, maybe not today, but when I had children, you know, uh, 28 years ago, uh, obstetrician, gynecologists were telling their female patients.

[00:06:13] Eat all you want and rest, just rest. Don't work hard. Just rest. And that's, that's a horrible message that has actually potentially contributor to the childhood obesity rate that we see today. Would you agree with that?

[00:06:27] Dr. Min Du, PhD: [00:06:27] Yes. That's a cost. We do not have direct evidence for that. So that's the reason why we conduct is rather than steam the best songs.

[00:06:36] This study actually is that whether it be a factor contributing to obesity, we observed light now.

[00:06:44] Carl Lanore: [00:06:44] Right. Okay. So, uh, your study looked specifically at what markers, what were you looking at specifically in the rodents that were, so you had two groups of rodents. Describe the setup of the study.

[00:06:57] Dr. Min Du, PhD: [00:06:57] So we initially, actually, we did the [00:07:00] focal, including obvious mice, uh, and the Zen lean mice during ever study.

[00:07:06] Actually, we realized that even in the mice, uh, CEO could have a negative charge, uh, change genes of fetal development. So we end up focusing on the lean mice of physical fit mice. Um, uh, we. Probably focusing on the fat. Brown fat is a sort of fat, which actually the bone fatty acids. Instead of stories. So CC is a little different on the floor.

[00:07:35] White fat, what fat is responsible for obesity. We observed, but prom fat is a own fat acid, so it's actually can provide, uh, prevent obesity. So we specifically study the prompt fat in a study, and we found that. Exercise during pregnancy, actually, can you enhance Brown fat [00:08:00] development so that could prevent the obesity?

[00:08:06] Carl Lanore: [00:08:06] Yeah. Okay, so is is it, is this phenomenon about developing Brown, Brown fat in the fetus? Does it make it easier for the maturing. Rodent and possibly adult human, uh, to reproduce this effect. Because Brown fat is thought to be hard for humans to make an easy for rodents to make. But, but if you can make Brown fat in the womb, does it predispose you to be able to do that again later on in life when you want to, if you, the right conditions occur, exercise and proper nutrition.

[00:08:40] Can you make Brown fat again?

[00:08:43] Dr. Min Du, PhD: [00:08:43] Yeah, exactly.

[00:08:48] yes, yes. It's true. Prompt, fatty as a, uh. Quite existing, quite large sizing burdens, but in humans, under normal condition actually is our [00:09:00] Montes limited. But XE can be induced like an excised by certain drugs. Under Zen, certain thighs, actually nutrients can induce it, and we found that, so exercise, offspring, Zio, prom fat are easy to be induced.

[00:09:20] Letter. So that's a NAZA important is that we think they have a direct application to the humans because in the humans, as we already discussed in the normal condition, because we are living in somewhat neutral conditions, that means we are very comfortable and temperature wise. So is that's not the quiet prompt fat that could be functional to general heat to maintain body temperature high above.

[00:09:48] By many other factors can stimulate prompt fat development. And the we found is that, uh, by, uh, exercise too in pregnancy actually mix up [00:10:00] offspring. Next generations, you are easier to induce

[00:10:03] Carl Lanore: [00:10:03] from fat. Really it has, it has transgenerational effects.

[00:10:10] Dr. Min Du, PhD: [00:10:10] Well, I wouldn't say, uh, we call it the Intergen, the nation of fat.

[00:10:14] So transgenerational we usually laughing  when the children, so we are here, we are talking about this

[00:10:23] Carl Lanore: [00:10:23] mother to the child,

[00:10:25] Dr. Min Du, PhD: [00:10:25] so we call it intergenerational. Okay.

[00:10:28] Carl Lanore: [00:10:28] Okay, so if the offspring then can are born with more of this Brown fat, and then they actually have the ability to create more Brown fat throughout their lives than do we see them actually being leaner?

[00:10:45] Because obviously there's a lot of people who are quite obese but also produce Brown fat.

[00:10:55] Dr. Min Du, PhD: [00:10:55] So in the offspring mice, we did not see [00:11:00] difference, uh, under the heresay tight. But when eat a tight hive in energy, like a half a high sugars, that's common in Western societies. Actually the office of the mice get obese with offspring from.

[00:11:18] Exercise, the muscles actually all resist to get all these. So is that indicates a protective effect, uh, to be become obese later in life?

[00:11:31] Carl Lanore: [00:11:31] So we know now that you don't, a fat cell doesn't go away. It just either has a lot of storage or very little storage. So it, and we know that there are things, as you pointed out earlier, that can cause the Browning of white fat, but that that fat has the tendency to become white again if you don't continue.

[00:11:56] The thing that has caused it to Brown. If, [00:12:00] if a, if a fat cell is created as a Brown fat cell in the fetus, does it tend to to remain a Brown fat cell for the duration of life?

[00:12:11] Dr. Min Du, PhD: [00:12:11] Uh, not necessarily actually Z stimulus for the move. Then do have a tendency to convert into white

[00:12:21] Carl Lanore: [00:12:21] back to white. Okay.

[00:12:24] Dr. Min Du, PhD: [00:12:24] Uh, based on the current study, actually a common, uh, consensus.

[00:12:28] Yes. What fat actually, especially why the adipocyte is not that bad. So regarding the white adipose tissue, so the view is that, so adipose site itself, actually it was a white edge with physio itself is a protective, that's the problem. A close Wednesday is excessive energy. Intake, like from food, but less exercise.

[00:12:58] So the image [00:13:00] accumulates, so maxed exist in fat cells, hop, trophy call increasing size. When's the sizes become

[00:13:08] Carl Lanore: [00:13:08] too

[00:13:09] Dr. Min Du, PhD: [00:13:09] big? Does that cause metabolic problems? Because that induce inflammation and some as a change in the ad post KGO undeserved. Classically is our fast sales everyday individual festival to contribute.

[00:13:25] So if we can generate new fast sales effectively or have more new fast sales, even the white festivals to still be your protective from reporting diseases, that's actually a differentiator. Some. Posen so it looks like obese  because you possibly have a more small adipocytes component as opposing, which my CIOs lean, but metaphorically unhealthy.

[00:13:56] Could it be, teachers are limited number of adipocytes in the body, but [00:14:00] CR. Quite a month trophy increases size, which actually couldn't have resulted in metabolic symptoms.

[00:14:08] Carl Lanore: [00:14:08] So go ahead and describe the study. So you had a, you had two groups of rodents, right? Or three?

[00:14:15] Dr. Min Du, PhD: [00:14:15] We have a two group.

[00:14:16] Carl Lanore: [00:14:16] Okay. One was a control and they were, they were fed ad libitum, but they were not allowed to exercise.

[00:14:25] These were both non obese rodents. Right.

[00:14:28] Dr. Min Du, PhD: [00:14:28] Yes. Uh, both of them are not all peace when we call it, uh, inactive or say the inquiry. So basically it's not the exercise and there's the ILO as an exercise regularly. I showed it daily for one hour

[00:14:44] Carl Lanore: [00:14:44] on a, on the wheel. They get on the wheel.

[00:14:46] Dr. Min Du, PhD: [00:14:46] We actually use treadmill.

[00:14:49] We do not use a wheel exercise because that is a quite amount of valuation. Among the individual mice. So is that the word? A max, a [00:15:00] study less conclusive because of the variation exists. So we use the treadmills so we can control the speed and the intensity of exercise and, uh, to be mimic what woman can exercise during pregnancy.

[00:15:17] Carl Lanore: [00:15:17] And so what are the rodents reluctant to exercise during pregnancy or do they take, they get on there and they walk, no problem.

[00:15:25] Dr. Min Du, PhD: [00:15:25] Oh, I see. Actually. So I would say depending on the mice, most of my set, they can exercise with Z, have some degree of exercise, would be quite a variable. Some minds just to not like exercise and the certain quarter exercise quite a lot.

[00:15:45] So is that causing lots of variations.  mice excise mice. When the variation is big, then it, whether it be Mexican cruisers, less concluded. Right? So that's the reason why [00:16:00] we can

[00:16:00] Carl Lanore: [00:16:00] not use that. It's funny because that means the rodents are just like humans. There are some humans who like to exercise, and then some UN humans who hate it, they think it's horrible.

[00:16:09] That's pretty funny. Yeah. So, uh, so in, in the group that exercise, they will fed the same diet, I would imagine, as the group that was sedentary, right? Yes. Okay. And so what, what were the outcomes when you looked? What, what did you find.

[00:16:27] Dr. Min Du, PhD: [00:16:27] So in the exercise group, we found the son a decline in a weight and the weight, we analyze  a white fat.

[00:16:39] So that's a set. Just a, yeah, as expected when you exercise, you lost some fat. Um, was then we compared as the offscreen, actually, we analyzed the fetus to. So you does heavy shows that improve the prom fat development, and that's a lasting [00:17:00] effect on offspring prone, fat mess, and so much NSS heat production.

[00:17:06] Carl Lanore: [00:17:06] So did you only, did you set out to only look at Brown fat. Uh, production or did you set out to look at other markers as well that indicate maybe some sort of metabolic derangement or the lack of metabolic derangement?

[00:17:23] Dr. Min Du, PhD: [00:17:23] Actually, this study was a set up to analyze both bronc fat and the muscle development too.

[00:17:30] So he ends up pepper. We probably should, it's only focusing on prom fat, and we still have another paper under review. Right now it's focusing on the muscle and the both of them are very important physios, uh, for. Inducing fatty acid oxidation on the glucose utilization. So it's important to prevent the metaphoric, uh, symptoms in officers.

[00:17:59] So [00:18:00] is that some reason why it would be focused versus a muscle on

[00:18:03] Carl Lanore: [00:18:03] the problems? So what, so could you tell us what you found that indicates that there is more muscle creation occurring in the fetus? Uh, of the, the rats that, that exercise, was there a downregulation in myostatin or were there any, uh, uh, indicators that, or when the, when the babies were born, did they have one muscle then their sedentary counterparts, for instance?

[00:18:30] Dr. Min Du, PhD: [00:18:30] Actually, we found us more muscle. Of course, we cannot directly measure a muscle mass Wednesday or bone because a mice Wednesday, our bone is too immature to act, but it quantifies our muscle mass. But the, when we analyze the means of winning, uh, in the day 21 of 21 days, we did a founders' that as a muscle mass was cycling increase.

[00:19:00] [00:19:00] And the most important is our fiber type is different. And the CEO has a higher ratio of, uh, oxidative muscle fiber types, type one muscle fibers. That's actually can you enhance energy utilization.

[00:19:17] Carl Lanore: [00:19:17] Okay. So, so this would indicate, because we already know that mothers who eat unrestricted and gain, and this is in humans who gain large amounts of, of, of fat during their pregnancy, give birth to very, very large babies.

[00:19:34] Who show early on metabolic derangement towards insulin resistance. We know that mothers who develop a lot of body fat during their pregnancies, their babies are born with a lot of body fat. More importantly, their babies are born in a with what a lot of people like to call the thrifty gene, but the reality is that their babies.

[00:19:55] Don't lose body fat easily, and they are prone to becoming obese [00:20:00] adults from the mother and behavior. So it makes perfect sense that the exact opposite is true that mothers who remained fit, who eat enough food for their pregnancy, but don't get. Crazy fat and they exercise. They build the humans that are more metabolically flexible, that have a greater insulin sensitivity and have an ability to get rid of body fat quickly.

[00:20:25] When you took the, um, the test rodents and you fed them less food, they lost fat, fat quickly, right?

[00:20:33] Dr. Min Du, PhD: [00:20:33] Yeah. Actually more important than the offspring. Robbins fly excess and muscles, actually, XE can exercise more. And there's the resistance to fatigue actually. So that's a very interesting

[00:20:48] Carl Lanore: [00:20:48] and really great.

[00:20:49] They get, they get extra exercise tolerance. They get a greater tolerance to exerting themselves.

[00:20:55] Dr. Min Du, PhD: [00:20:55] Yes. So that's actually, I, we think it's quite important that [00:21:00] discovery, so that, uh, yeah. The, like a program that affects all the exercise ability, and that was all we found is that as a muscle contraction force was a side of the tooth.

[00:21:17] So in combination. We sang the sinks. A muscle change is a major contributor cause they improved, uh, insulin insensitivity and the resistance to the obese when challenging the, with our high energy diet.

[00:21:33] Carl Lanore: [00:21:33] Was there anything that surprised you about this study? I know you, you set out to look at specific endpoints.

[00:21:40] To, to, to validate or, or, or unvalidated the, the reasons you were looking at the study, was there anything that you learned that you didn't expect to learn from the research?

[00:21:52] Dr. Min Du, PhD: [00:21:52] Actually. As I told the , we only originally set up using obese [00:22:00] mice because the obese maternal mice, so that we expect as a fact or the be more dramatic when these things exercise, but we let our farmers at all human with all the obesity, just physical fit muscles.

[00:22:15] So difference. Yes, quite. Dramatic. So that's actually, it's not though what we originally expected. We originally promoting expect to have the such dramatic effect in the office in

[00:22:28] Carl Lanore: [00:22:28] fit and fit mice. Um, yeah. So, but this also sounds to me like if a mom has ignored her health for a long time, she's got a lot of body fat and she gets pregnant, there is some benefit.

[00:22:43] To the mom doing exercise. Obviously exercise. She can tolerate what, you may just be walking every day, but there looks like there might be an ability to intercede and have the fetus get signals that will help the fetus be born as a [00:23:00] more metabolically flexible offspring if the, if the obese mice, mother human exercises during her pregnancy.

[00:23:08] Is that, is that true?

[00:23:10] Dr. Min Du, PhD: [00:23:10] Yes. So we, in those study actually, we also look at what the closings of improvement, the of either development we found the exercise can secret, we call X or kinds, uh, cytokines, uh, secret Biser muscle fibers doing exercise and the salsa, uh. Cytokines actually came immediate effect of the maternal exercise, which you can include as a fetal development.

[00:23:43] Carl Lanore: [00:23:43] So cytokines can actually be signaling. In this case, we know cytokines are inflammatory agents, that the immune system leverages to fight off things. Uh, but, but what you're saying is that cytokines can actually be more of a signal. So the baby is getting a signal from the mother that [00:24:00] the world that the baby is going to be born into requires activity, muscle activation.

[00:24:06] And so the, the, the, the, the, the baby will be born then perhaps avoiding some of the problems that the mother has before pregnancy by, by the mother starting to exercise during pregnancy. I think that's, I think that's a really big point. And I, and the reason I say that is because. We are nearing 50% of the population, uh, being overweight and obese today.

[00:24:28] And so there's a lot of moms out there who just got pregnant. They just found out they were pregnant last week or, or this week. And they'll listen to a show like this and there'll be downhearted and they'll think, Oh, I wish I would have taken care of my body longer before being pregnant. Don't feel that way.

[00:24:43] Start now. Start where you are. And if all you can do is walk, you don't have to do anything heroic. We know that. We know that. The reason. People respond to exercise rapidly, but then they hit a wall as they go on is because when you don't exercise at all and you start to [00:25:00] exercise, you see some dramatic changes very quickly.

[00:25:02] But then the body becomes accustomed to them and, and it, and it starts to slow down the progress. So if you're a mom and you just found out you're pregnant, get clearance from your doctor to walk and walk everyday a couple of times, even even. 20 minutes in the morning, 20 minutes in the afternoon, because your body will send signals to that baby that will give that baby a better head start when it's born.

[00:25:27] Dr. Min Du, PhD: [00:25:27] Yes. So I will say the XIC is always good. Then, of course for pregnant woman to not have access, but overexercise whether it be like a very high intense, so Nagaland, like a walking and, uh, even, uh, jogging. And some.

[00:25:50] Carl Lanore: [00:25:50] low impact, low impacts of Pilates, yoga. They have yoga classes just for pregnant women. In fact, there's a picture that we use for today's show from a yoga [00:26:00] class for pregnant women. Those types of things. Don't you know, if you've never done a strenuous exercise, don't start now, but start doing some exercise, low impact, moderate intensity.

[00:26:13] You know, something that you can easily do for 20 or 30 minutes at a time. Start there. Yeah, exactly.

[00:26:19] Dr. Min Du, PhD: [00:26:19] So it's never too late to start the exercise and the exercise regularly. That's always good. Yeah.

[00:26:27] Carl Lanore: [00:26:27] We're going to take a quick commercial break. When we come back, we've got more to discuss. We're talking with dr men do.

[00:26:31] He is with the Washington state university, and this is a fascinating study because childhood obesity is a big problem today, and people like to blame the parents. Oh, you're feeding the child too much. And that may be true. I'm not letting them off the hook, but it may start sooner. It's may, may start earlier.

[00:26:49] It may start when the mom finds out she's pregnant and she takes well meaning, but incorrect advice. Eat all you want and rest that's going to build the wrong type [00:27:00] of human for this modern world. Stay tuned. We'll be right back with more superhuman radio. Okay.

[00:27:14] talking with dr Bindu, we're talking about exercise during pregnancy. It's a good thing. I see moms at the gym all the time exercising, and I always make a point to walk up to them and say, you're doing such a good thing for your child. And they always, always say to me. I hope so because their mom is telling them, don't do this.

[00:27:35] It's not a wise thing. Just relax. And I'm sure they're having their doctors telling them, you know, don't do anything. Stress strenuous. Now these are women that have been exercising for a long time before getting pregnant. These are women who go into the gym. They're, they're moving weight. They're, they're sprinting, they're doing things that you shouldn't do if you've never done that stuff, you don't start it when you're pregnant.

[00:27:56] But the reality is that if you are someone who's [00:28:00] exercised. Most of your life and you were exercising before you got pregnant. There's really little evidence that you should stop exercising it. Would you agree with that doctor? Do

[00:28:12] Dr. Min Du, PhD: [00:28:12] all your shit? Should've not that initial, not should a continue exercise.

[00:28:16] Exercise is good and do not stop it.

[00:28:20] Carl Lanore: [00:28:20] So, um, what the, what the, the, the, where the benefits of exercising during pregnancy seen across. Um, both male and female offspring, or where there sex differences?

[00:28:35] Dr. Min Du, PhD: [00:28:35] Uh, no, no sex, different. Uh, I cannot say that series of sacrifice, but those are beneficial

[00:28:42] Carl Lanore: [00:28:42] really.

[00:28:44] Interesting. And cause I would think that testosterone and estrogen would have different roles in how we handle body fat and so on.

[00:28:52] Dr. Min Du, PhD: [00:28:52] Um, we did observe a slider difference, but the overlook has a very clear, see all [00:29:00] beneficial.

[00:29:00] Carl Lanore: [00:29:00] So talk about April and what is April and, and you notice that this is, this is, this is the, uh, the, uh, protein that causes a Browning of fat.

[00:29:10] Is that right?

[00:29:12] Dr. Min Du, PhD: [00:29:12] Yes. CC is a relatively new, newly discovered, uh, Xochitl. So as we just, uh, pocket before the prac sets, uh, cytokines, or sometimes we can call it the hormones. So see, our secret tunes are X size. Pfizer muscle fibers, and as they can cope with the circulation, and we can stimulate actually fetal, uh, secretion of a Pauline.

[00:29:44] So is that actually whether it be beneficial for the fetal development and, but right now, we are designing a additional study using knockout with the mice. So to see was, um, by specifically the moose. Uh, say [00:30:00] signal in passed away to see who has a beneficial skill exists. We haven't finished that study yet, so we cannot definitively say yes, exclusively immediate ends of beneficial effects.

[00:30:13] But we do observes that, uh, say yes, a beneficial effect by, uh, at the moon historians, uh, Matana mice with this. Yeah. Yeah. It's actually beneficial for fetal development.

[00:30:30] Carl Lanore: [00:30:30] So, so this, this could also be a, a therapeutic intervention. And let's say a mom is, uh, obese at the time of pregnancy, and let's say, uh, she has a variety of conditions that preclude her from being able to exercise.

[00:30:46] Then you could actually mimic exercise by giving the mom apron. Sounds like.

[00:30:54] Dr. Min Du, PhD: [00:30:54] Yeah. I will say that's a lie. Now it's a premature to say that, but [00:31:00] past all over Northern studies, we use this, uh, appalling, uh, de the injection to, uh, Matano mice and that generate beneficial effects. Actually similar to exercise.

[00:31:15] Carl Lanore: [00:31:15] That's very interesting. What about the heart? Did we, did the heart look any different in the offspring of the mothers that exercise, because we know that athletes. Uh, tend to have bigger hearts. We know, uh, race horses, the best race horses in the world always had much larger hearts than average race horses.

[00:31:37] And so the heart seems to be, since it's a pump, and you pointed out that they seem to, uh, be able to, uh, experience or resist, uh, strenuous exercise fatigue. Is there any indication that these rodents are built with Oborne with better pumps, with better hearts?

[00:31:56] Dr. Min Du, PhD: [00:31:56] We did not, we actually haven't a exam [00:32:00] closely, the best downs, a weight of the heart.

[00:32:04] We did not observe significant significant difference. So I would say is that, uh, off the post, if it was officer cleaning wise exercise, keep exercising the heart, maybe develop bigger. But we did not see a significant difference in other Ludens without the exercise.

[00:32:30] Carl Lanore: [00:32:30] You know, it's funny, I know a lot of people because of doing the show for 14 years.

[00:32:34] Who are devoted athletes, they, maybe they don't compete at, uh, at, uh, Olympic events or, but they have certain competitions that they do, but they've been devoted to physical culture and exercise. And then they usually marry someone who has a similar lifestyle. Because it's hard to be someone who loves exercise and physical culture and eating right and getting to sleep [00:33:00] early and all the things that we do in this community of this audience without marrying someone who likes the same things, because otherwise you're not going to have a good relationship.

[00:33:09] And when I look at their children, their children are all fit. Um, there's a, there's a fellow that, uh, Elisa and I, there's a, uh, uh, uh, Mennonite family that we buy. Uh, produce from and we buy other products from and, and we have watched, uh, their sons. There's two different families, actually, one that I used to get dairy from, but I've watched both of their sons grow up and their sons are hard working.

[00:33:36] They work on the farm, the mothers work the whole time. They're pregnant. They don't sit around because the Mennonite culture, everybody works. Everybody toils everybody harvests, everybody does everything. And their children are born remarkably lean and muscular, and they don't go to the gym. You know, they don't do anything to build their bodies per se, but they work hard.

[00:33:58] And I'm sure the mothers [00:34:00] worked hard while they were pregnant. And when we look at these people, you know, it's just astonishing to me when you look at them. And then you look at the average American today who's giving birth to a Butterball of a baby, you know, also always 12 pounds. You know, that's not a good thing to have a 12 pound baby just for the record.

[00:34:18] And so, you know, I see the difference in the culture that rewards and hard work. Throughout life and the offspring all look like super humans. They all do without even trying. So it's a, it's, it's really interesting. There's a, I love what you're talking about because we need to get moms to exercise more.

[00:34:45] We really do. And we need to get people in general, especially in the face of this. Pandemic. We need to get people to care more about exercise and staying healthy before their life is being threatened by a [00:35:00] pandemic. I hope that what comes out of this pandemic is that people start to be more considerate of their bodies and concerned about their health.

[00:35:08] Dr. Min Du, PhD: [00:35:08] Yeah. I always emphasize the recorrect size is very important for keeping, uh, physically fit and, uh. CIS slogans at the exercise is the best medicine. So I always believe exercise is a very important, of course, for  who has not dealt with the exercise the up to now, then you can start the exercises slowly, but progressively.

[00:35:38] Carl Lanore: [00:35:38] We're going to take our last commercial break. When we come back, we're going to wrap up this interview. Stay tuned. We'll be right back. Welcome back.

[00:35:48] Doctor, do you said that you're, uh, you've got another paper that's in peer review that's going to be published that looks more at the muscle side of this discussion, right? Will you come on [00:36:00] a, when that paper is published?

[00:36:03] Dr. Min Du, PhD: [00:36:03] Uh. It's hard to say. There hasn't seen revision. Right now it's a, there's no guarantees at a utopia published by a journal.

[00:36:15] We submit, but I guess it's still the choir, maybe several months on the list, maybe half year to get the to fund and publish.

[00:36:26] Carl Lanore: [00:36:26] What about doing these kinds of studies and porcine and pigs? They tend to be more similar to humans. Uh, isn't that the next step up? Like when you look at the, the hierarchy of, uh, animals that are used in studies that should have a gravity in humans, aren't the, now they have that little pig that th that they're easier to take care of.

[00:36:49] And, and labs is a, is a pig model study a step up from a rodent model study?

[00:36:56] Dr. Min Du, PhD: [00:36:56] Uh, usually, no. [00:37:00] Um, because, uh, pick a study, would it be quite a demanding? Uh, we actually thinking about, uh, maybe do a follow up study in humans in pregnant woman's exactly. Because that might be easier to do a, compare that with a.

[00:37:21] Pig

[00:37:21] Carl Lanore: [00:37:21] pig. Humans are easier to tell what you want them to do.

[00:37:25] Dr. Min Du, PhD: [00:37:25] Yeah. I'm the also basically most basic of biological questions we want to address, whether it be able to do in others. And it's just similar on the much easier. We have a transgenic mice available to you. So in the next step we are thinking maybe do a human study directly.

[00:37:49] Carl Lanore: [00:37:49] That's exciting. That's exciting. Yeah. So, um, that's study the human study. You don't even have that in the works yet, right? You're just [00:38:00] thinking about doing it.

[00:38:02] Dr. Min Du, PhD: [00:38:02] Central elicits, correct. Yeah. Yeah. We'll need to know to have a, actually, we are just thinking about

[00:38:09] Carl Lanore: [00:38:09] what, I mean, I would imagine there's some obstacles in doing studies and women and pregnant women humans, because there are some associated risks and liabilities with that.

[00:38:18] Right. And how do you, how do you even get an IRB for that? Can you get an IRB for that?

[00:38:22] Dr. Min Du, PhD: [00:38:22] Yeah, exactly. So, concern about, uh. The cause of we need a powerful control group. So we know that that could be negatively impacts of fetal development. So that's actually say yes, some concern under some difficulty in separating into two groups.

[00:38:45] Carl Lanore: [00:38:45] You know, I get it that so. The problem with control groups is they're not getting the therapeutic, so they're, they're not benefiting from the protection and you, you literally are hoping that they develop [00:39:00] whatever the disease is that you're looking for as the control against the therapeutic therapeutic group.

[00:39:06] But if, if people say, I had no plans of exercising during pregnancy, I had no plans of changing the way I eat. I had no plans of changing the way I sleep. And he says, okay, great. We just want to monitor you. That's all we want to do. I don't know. I don't understand why, um, there is any, uh, potential liability from that if they already agreed that that's what they were going to do.

[00:39:28] And then if, and if the therapeutic group, the therapeutic group, if you, if they say, yeah, I planned on exercising and I planned on eating right, and I planned on getting to sleep early and not putting on too much body weight. You say, great, just do what you were going to do. You know? That's where I see that would be how it has to be done.

[00:39:47] Dr. Min Du, PhD: [00:39:47] Yes. That's uh, what we are sinking. We plan to do that actually. Is, that might be the only way. So concern is, is that usually sells a woman's who do not want to [00:40:00] exercise to no one to change, tended to be in South womans who are already obese, physically fit. So in that case, then there's a general question about the best lines, the best line, whether it be started at different.

[00:40:15] They can two groups. So you throw it to be a hot to

[00:40:21] or be, uh, exercise because it's already in the starting point, some

[00:40:26] Carl Lanore: [00:40:26] different. But again, I don't see that as an obstacle cause there are a lot of women out there who exercise. And Arnold peace, but they do not plan on exercising during pregnancy because their mother told them not to. Their doctor told them not to, or they're just afraid that exercise during pregnancy is too extreme of a thing to do and I'm just going to take nine months off.

[00:40:45] There are women out there that are like that. You just need to get them to do what they had planned to do.

[00:40:50] Dr. Min Du, PhD: [00:40:50] Yeah, that's, that's possibly as a way we want to pursue that. Celia, some difficulties and findings as a sufficient number of which [00:41:00] are matched, choose a excise school.

[00:41:03] Carl Lanore: [00:41:03] How many people would you need in each group to make it statistically significant?

[00:41:08] Dr. Min Du, PhD: [00:41:08] Usually, whether it be larger sample size, certainly be better, but that's always a challenge that. Human studies, so sufficient and nimble for patients. Case

[00:41:27] Carl Lanore: [00:41:27] I want to thank you for being here today. It's very, very fascinating. And you know, a lot of people may not think that this is exciting research, but it really is because the trajectory of your child and the trajectory of our population starts in the mother's womb. And so when we realized that, when we realized that, you know, prenatal vitamins, meaningless, how you live, what you eat, how well you sleep, and the lifestyle that you live imprints that [00:42:00] baby.

[00:42:01] And that's the important thing. That's

[00:42:04] Dr. Min Du, PhD: [00:42:04] exactly when we actually have a study, ongoing politics, Macondo stress, and the, we do fall under that stress. What the induce secretion of stress hormones, that's cause hormone actually negatively impact fetal development. And was that pepper actually just accepted by diabetes?

[00:42:25] So June of diabetes. So I think, uh.

[00:42:30] Carl Lanore: [00:42:30] Yeah. Well, can you, can you just expand, expand on that? So what happens, there's a lot of women out there today pregnant in unsupportive environments. They're under a lot of stress day in and day out. Uh, what, what, what happens to the fetus when they live in that, in that secretion of stress hormones surrounding them all the time.

[00:42:51] Dr. Min Du, PhD: [00:42:51] Yeah. We found out when the maternal is, is stress mother's stress, see secret stress hormones CEP can [00:43:00] inhibit, so develop powerful, full fat and or Salazar oxidating muscle fibers. It's just an oxide of the mathematic beneficial effect of the excess can provide it. So, yes, that's a actually, so I will say is that the tunes of pregnancy library exercise keep a healthy and keep happy and the

[00:43:25] Carl Lanore: [00:43:25] stress down, you have to stress out

[00:43:28] Dr. Min Du, PhD: [00:43:28] the, would they be very beneficial for the fetal development and as our future health soft sexually.

[00:43:34] Carl Lanore: [00:43:34] Thanks for being here today, doctor D. Fascinating stuff. Okay, thank you. And we're going to take one last commercial break, and when we come back, uh, I've got some stuff to talk about. What's going on in Atlanta, Georgia right now. If you haven't heard the news, I want to get it out there because I don't think the mainstream media is picking up on this stuff.

[00:43:52] So stay tuned. We'll be right back with more. Welcome back. You know, it's a weird [00:44:00] thing. You search right now, Google for the last few days, update from Georgia, the state of Georgia. You'll only find articles from anywhere from a week to three weeks ago saying that if Georgia opens up too soon, they're going to see a spike in deaths.

[00:44:27] Uh, it's a bad idea. But the governor of Georgia decided to follow his own, uh, his own plan. And Georgia has opened back up pretty much, almost completely well over the weekend. They had a drop in new Corona virus reports. You can't find that. You can't find it on the internet. You can't find that anywhere.

[00:44:50] I heard it on a news show and I listened to the, one of the representatives from Georgia talking about it. And he was saying that the new [00:45:00] cases reported over the past three days have dropped considerably. Now is there going to be other deaths? Yes, cause we talked about this the other day. You can't wait a virus out.

[00:45:11] You can't stay hidden from it. As soon as people start moving around again, it is going to continue to run through our population and it's going to do that even if we had a vaccine, because we know that vaccines are only at best 50 55% effective. So you're still going to have people dying from Corona virus, even with the vaccine.

[00:45:31] But there's no good news in the United States being promoted by the mainstream media at all. And you know, we, we look, we look at Sweden and we look at South Korea and people try to explain them away. Oh, well, they, they do this and they do that. And Davis, they that. Okay. Meanwhile, the governor of New York admitted end of last week that 59% of the new cases are coming from people that are staying home.

[00:46:00] [00:46:00] What? What? Wait a minute there. Social distancing to the max and they're staying home and they're being rushed to the hospital with Corona virus. Something's not right. If you don't ask yourself, I don't care. This is not political. I don't care what you believe, but when you hear these honest statements that 59% of the people in New York, again, getting the coronavirus or people who were staying home, uh, uh, uh, 50% of the people dying of coronavirus in New York or in, in old age homes, 80 and above, I mean, those people would die from the flu.

[00:46:40] And then you hear about a state like Georgia that's opened up. And they have actually seen a drop over the past few days and newly reported cases. But you don't hear that anywhere. You don't hear it on the news, in fact, or if you Google it all, they give you stuff from three weeks ago. You know, [00:47:00] Georgia making a mistake, Georgia is going to see a rise in deaths, Georgia, Georgia, Georgia.

[00:47:04] And it's not happening. I mean, I don't care. Who you believe, who you don't, but if you're a critical thinker, you gotta go, what? What? What is this? What's going on here? Everything they tell us doesn't happen. You know, the things that they don't tell us happen. Wear a mask. Don't wear a mask. I mean, it's just, the truth is politicians know nothing.

[00:47:28] They're following scientists who either have agendas or they don't know what they think they know about this virus. And I think it's time for people to start moving back into a more traditional way of life. Keep social distancing. If you're one of those people who is at risk, if you are 75 80 years old, or if you're 40 and really, really, really unhealthy, you know, I've had type two diabetes for the past two decades and you're on a bunch of meds.

[00:47:55] You literally couldn't walk down a flight of [00:48:00] stairs to save your own life. Think about the people who died in the world trade center. The majority of people that died on the stairwells were so unfit that they couldn't walk down a hundred flight or 200 flights of stairs to save their own life. Think about that.

[00:48:18] Like we're not talking about walking up hold onto the railing and just walk down nice and slow. Okay, I'm going to be here for the next 30 minutes doing this, but I'm getting out of this building. They couldn't do that. They just sat down on the stairs and accepted their fate. We live in a country of, I'm sorry to say it, fat, unhealthy people, and I feel sorry for them because I used to be one of them.

[00:48:44] You know, if I didn't change my life, I'd be here to right now, not behind this mic at all, but in fact worried about covert 19 because I would be, if I was still alive, fat and unhealthy.

[00:48:58] This is a wake up call. [00:49:00] People need to listen to this. They need to get this straight. It's time to stop being stupid about your health. It's time to stop. You know, rush Limbaugh thinks exercise is a bad idea. I mean, think about that. It's a bad idea not to move regularly and, and, and exert energy. And. Put yourself in motion over and over again throughout the day and burn calories.

[00:49:28] That's the bad idea. That's the bad idea. And those are the people who will die from this virus. And I'm going to say something else. I'm going to incense a lot of people, but I'm going to say it. If the truth of this virus who's allowed to cut through our population, it would thin the herd of all the sick people, all the people that we have to pay more money for on healthcare to keep them alive because they don't give a damn about them, their health.

[00:49:56] They keep living crappy lives and just ask for another [00:50:00] medication to cover up another symptom. If this virus went through our population, we come out the other side with only strong, healthy people. And I know what you're saying. That's a horrible thing. I know. Because the idea of someone dying is a horrible thing.

[00:50:16] It drives, it's driven our species, which is why we've come up with modern medicine. But the reality is that in the animal kingdom, they coal. The herds. They take the old animals that are not able to provide, they're not able to reproduce, and they're just really not serving a purpose. They take them out to keep the herd strong for the greater good of the herd.

[00:50:43] And I'm not suggesting that we do that to humans, but what I am saying is if people took care of their bodies and took care of their health and didn't become fat slovenly. Broken human beings. They wouldn't be worried about this virus right now. So [00:51:00] am I the wrong one for not worrying for them? Is it my job to worry for them or is it their job to worry for themselves?

[00:51:07] It's abdication of responsibility. It's the core of a lot of bad things in our country, and we put up with it because we feel sorry for people. Why do we feel sorry for people who don't do what's in their own best interest? I'll leave you with that question today. Share the show. We'll see you tomorrow.

[00:51:24] Thank you. [00:52:00] .