[00:00:00] Welcome back to another episode of superhuman radio. We're changing the script today, and we're going to be talking about. Building strength and conditioning for fighting with the guy who has been a lifelong achiever in this area. And that is my guest today Phil Dunlop. How you doing Phil?

[00:00:52] Wonderful. It's a pleasure to be here. Yes, it's great to have you too. You know, it's funny. I set up these interviews a lot of times without [00:01:00] truly knowing a lot about my. And then I go digging to see and then I it just amazes me like the pedigree that some of the guests that I get to interview.

[00:01:13] On the show have like yourself been I started digging around about you and I'm like, holy crap like this guy is not only a skilled coach, but you're still fighting and you're in your 50s. You're in your late 50s now, right? Yeah. I actually I actually don't call it fighting because I separate the two I had this weird thing.

[00:01:34] For me fighting is why I'm getting punched in the face. Okay, that's why we're okay grappling to me is more. I do a lot of Brazilian jiu-jitsu tournaments a lot of submission, grappling events, both professional and tournaments and I view that more as this Combat Sports. They will fit under the combat sports segment.

[00:01:53] But when I use the term fighting it's like I between kickboxing and mixed martial arts 519 fights. I probably have over a [00:02:00] thousand grappling matches, and I've got over 250 since. 52 and 56 now, but yeah, I still compete. I've got two tournaments. I'm doing at the end of the month. I did one last month and I just love it.

[00:02:13] I tell people I'm addicted to that moment. Now look a lot of people think, you know walking down to the cage walking down to the race something really cool. Okay, a lot of them love having their hands raised for me. It's when I'm standing across from another guy the ref looted him looks at me says you're ready.

[00:02:29] Are you ready? And it says go and then we lock up. I am addicted to that moment. Right right that that's amazing. So where did fighting start for you Phil? Well, I have an unusual story because my my grandfather had grew up in China. He was Irish then he moves to Burma and that's where he learned the martial arts.

[00:02:49] He married a woman who happened to be Burmese and he was over there prior to and during World War II and then moved over here and you know, it's set up a family and everything like that. But he'd been into the [00:03:00] Burmese or it's four years and I grew up doing it and it was almost always because I just love doing it was one of those weird situations.

[00:03:07] I had an odd family situation. My grandfather kind of raised me and I equated training hard with getting his law. So I classically trained and I'm still that way. I still love that moment when the sweats breaking you're moving for me. Nothing feels more pure. So it was just a Natural Evolution that I fight and when I was when I was 15, I got myself in a lot of trouble.

[00:03:31] I was I was I was a problem child this phrase it that way, but I went over to Burma and I thought I'd first I went to Thailand and I went to Burma but I did some Thai boxing and Burmese boxing in competition. II want at one point, I want to see him championship in Thailand this with this was in my 20s and I won three titles in our Burmese boxing 181101408.

[00:03:53] He's wanted in the 160s and one in the 170s. So how is Burmese boxing different than [00:04:00] like Thai boxing or Muay Thai or any how is it that I always tell people their sister orbs. I'm one of these those people if you put two people on a platform, I don't care what the rules are. If you're going to if they got whale on each other, I love it.

[00:04:15] I don't care whether it's Judo wrestling, but I love them all. Okay, once I wanted to preface the comment with that but Thai boxing and Burmese boxing Laotian boxing or all the oldies. Indigenous, you know, there's Khmer boxing all the indigenous of kickboxing Styles in that tight little region or I call them sister arts.

[00:04:39] And I think where they converged is when we tell you when its own way with the you know with the kind of I always called it the appeasement of the English idea of gloves, right? Oh, so suddenly they put gloves on. Okay. We're Burmese boxing State more true. To the rural nature of it when I was doing it and they [00:05:00] change the rules in 94.

[00:05:01] I'll go over the pre 94 walls and then and then the changes after 94 Dupree 94 rules work. The big differences was any strike was real? Anything headbutts. My nickname is a white rhino because I know this is gonna sound this is going to sound very strange and I wonder why I got like CTE issue ha ha ha my body is weapon.

[00:05:24] What do I have to use my head? Okay, you don't I Twenty Eight Knockouts by head, but I had but from all over to this day when I swore I had the punches. Machida was down. My hands are always up you throw a punch and it's coming through I drink a head down. Yeah, it's like you're thinking because you figured by now.

[00:05:44] He's gonna break his hand on that thing that you can drop your

[00:05:53] head.

[00:05:58] You know Bo and the other guy [00:06:00] had but it real quick. So like I always tried I always try to tell people it's the rules to define the combat Sport and with Burmese boxy any strike is legal included groin strikes. Okay, that's used to win the fight. So what would happen is you get knocked out they give you a minute to wake up, but your corner comes in tries to wake you up.

[00:06:21] You have a minute to decide whether you want to continue third knockout and so fight and in the old days it was. Final rounds five of them. The last round was unlimited so somebody had to lose. Yeah, right. The Burmese always had that demographic new style called in the bomb which allowed open Palm strikes and always was told to somebody gave up.

[00:06:44] So if it was an hour match, it was an hour match. So the idea is I try to tell people who's always about the finality. So when you and also with Burmese boxing you're allowed standing submissions, so I get an arm lock on you standing up I can try to break you. And the other thing is [00:07:00] but thank you Pat.

[00:07:00] They could tap out right they can say I give up right or no. Yes, please. Tell your grandma gummies box, right? They'll let you break the wrong. Okay, really? Don't let you break the arm. Usually yeah. The more quicker on the seat in other words, you're not trying to control yourself when you go in for a lock on the feet.

[00:07:19] You're just going too hard. Yeah, and and the other thing about it is any take down his legal. We're in Thai boxing. You're not allowed to suplex somebody hit pause some in Burmese boxing you're allowed to throw them in your one continuous strike on the ground. So why go to a hit if I start ahead toss and I break contact I can drop on you with my elbow.

[00:07:38] We hit the ground. Okay, so there's subtle. Just and then in in in ninety four are the government took over and try to try to organize it and monetize the sport. And then what happened is they changed the rules. So now it's less meant the last round goes for the goes for a you know, the [00:08:00] full five minutes and if nobody wins by knockout, it's a draw.

[00:08:05] So it's real losers. What is no points out the point system? Yeah, right. So what happens is certainly people instead of throwing Jabs the throne power leaves because it's knock out all the time because he was 20 Jabs and not knocking not but I've got any point. Yeah. No, you're not accruing anything.

[00:08:22] Yeah, right plus it is bare Knuckles to the punching is very different, right? Right. So you started that young in this sport? Yeah. I started at 15 by my first by 1919. I won my first time have you been to Ireland by any chance twice beautiful, right? Oh, I love the Ireland and my grandfather was originally from Ireland and then moved to China when he was a private, right the whole thing is my great grandfather was involved in the quote-unquote Rebellion.

[00:08:56] That's why he ended up going to church in 1847 were talking about [00:09:00] now, right? Yes. Yeah. Have you seen that movie yet Black 47. Yes. Oh man, you could see because Elise and I went to Ireland last year. We traveled all over with Dublin we went to. We went everywhere. We didn't go north because they said there was trouble with our passport if we want to go north, but wow, I fell in love with Island.

[00:09:20] It's amazing. It's amazing beautiful country great people and fighter friends fighters fighters fighters. I mean look at the fighters they have. Between you and I I'm probably one of the least racist guys, you can meet you in other words between you and I punch you in the face red stuff comes out.

[00:09:37] I like yeah, come on the ground hands or what color you're right, right the only stereotype I've ever found to be true. Yeah all this Irish people. We're alcoholics and we fight. Yeah, it's what we want.

[00:10:00] [00:10:01] I'm a recovering alcoholic myself. They call it the Irish curse. That's they call it. So anyway, but that's another story I so so at one point in time you you actually stopped fighting we're gonna get into strength and conditioning training for the audience so they can understand things to do but I want.

[00:10:18] More about your background. So you had to stop fighting because you you got sick right sometimes know originally because I broke my neck. I took 10 years off. Okay get medical clearance. How did you break your neck car accident? Oh got the roof of my car with my head. And I broke the odd the axis the top vertebra weird of the atlas the top vertebra, right and like a big piece came off.

[00:10:43] They wanted to fuse it and I decided my grandfather had been acupuncturist. So I ended up treating it with acupuncture a RT which is a massage technique, right and also with Chiropractic as it got better. And again, that's an amazing cuz that's like that they [00:11:00] called that The Hangman's something they hadn't been a fight right he did.

[00:11:06] Why because of the strength of your neck was it? Strengthened my neck, like between you and I it's kind of funny Mike, but you know, like people at work out with me. The one comment I always get is goddamn. You let the strongest guy I've ever met. Right right, you know, there's that there's that that strength of like picking haven't working a clinch and having people picked, you know, picking people up with your neck, right?

[00:11:29] Right, and that's and that's that's traditionally something that wrestlers have they usually have strong necks because they use their head to brace themselves on the ground and lift their body sometimes wrestlers in anybody who does when I say, Southeast Asian kickboxing music which is a big part of the game in Southeast Asian kickboxing.

[00:11:50] It's one of the differences fruitfully between a lot of Thai boxing. I see an America and Thai boxing. I've seen the tile and the Americans a lot of them. Don't work the clinch. [00:12:00] Now what you want to call it the clinch explain what you mean by the clinch the clinch? I say there's three components.

[00:12:07] There's really three components in my mind to fight the Striking kicking punching elbowing me whatever. Okay, there's grappling and then there's the the clinch area wrestler goes for take down a judo guy goes for throw or Thai boxer Grant you in the front. Clenched right and in progress a he wants to Grapple and kick at the same time.

[00:12:28] Right? Right. I own three different types of conditioning striking is very aerobic. I had guys that can strike can do 10 Rounds 10 5 minute rounds striking and you're exhausted. After to two minutes on the ground, right? Okay, guys, it can grapple for half an hour. They're exhausted with one three-minute round.

[00:12:47] Okay, so it's kind of some of its Comfort level but some of its different formats of conditioning and I always say the the toughest is because I always say weight-lift run [00:13:00] basically is grappling is very similar to high repetition lifting. Like, you know cuz you you build up that lactic acid in your muscles.

[00:13:09] It's rightfully right making is very cardiovascular. Right? I can see that it's like Dakota patter of your feet. Yeah, you're running, you know, okay what clinching is a combination of both it's kind of like trying to run while lifting weights huh interesting. So there are actually three different components to it and that standing grappling with striking integrated it is what the clinches.

[00:13:34] Interesting, very interesting. And so you find that those those guys who are good at that they usually have strong necks. Very strong next interesting. That's interesting that that's an attribute. So Nathan Haney is watching right now. I don't know if you know Nathan but he is an up-and-coming boxer.

[00:13:50] He lives in the UK, I believe. Hope I got that right knee and he is just setting the world on fire. I think we're going to hear this kid's name for a long time to come he's. And [00:14:00] he lost it. I'll start looking out for me heard the name but I haven't really seen any of his fights. Yeah, I'm sorry to say that.

[00:14:05] I'm my deepest sympathy. He just lost his dad. I know that and it's why I lost my dad Jo and II know it's Ross. It is tough. It is tough. I I say a man doesn't recognize his own mortality until he sees his father passed. That's the moment that in our heads we go. Oh me too. I'm gonna die someday, too.

[00:14:24] I'm never up. Never forget when my uncle died. My father had passed first, and I was talking to my cousin. And you know, we looked at each other and looked at him and I said we're up next. That's exactly what I said. I said, I'm the next man standing I said right right includes week. My uncle was the last of that generation of pass.

[00:14:43] Okay, and it's kind of like it's a weird thing when you start to and it's also kind of weird be at 56 years old even the words like yeah, I still think of myself as a 20 skinny 22 year old running around my friend cry, right? Okay. Meanwhile, I'll see your picture of myself. I don't like who's the old man.

[00:15:00] [00:15:00] I saw you heard of your commented on one of your pictures where you said note to self shave shave more of that gray stuff off before I let them take my picture or something like that. My wife lost my chops telling me I look 20 years old or when I don't Che look at I do I colored my hair today because I have two little party this week.

[00:15:18] I color my hair. I look like I'm you know, marginally younger. I don't I don't but I'll be 61 on the 11th this month. I'll be sixty one who raped. Yeah, I got my challenges. I'm fighting right now this I is just destroying my life, but I think it's a couple more weeks and it'll be gone. So you broke your neck you had to take 10 years off.

[00:15:39] Yeah, but I started training after I you know, I rehabbed it for about a year and a half and I started training again and then I opened a school at 29 and I was just basically it was just going to teach and then at 36 I came back again. And so the first school you opened was on these Coast. Right.

[00:15:57] It was it was AFS Advanced [00:16:00] fighting systems and then as my flight team grew we added the Asylum fight team to it, but it's between you and I what I had done is a huge construction project on my house. I had a 50 by 17 moment of basement that was a giant cage and I had another room that was a boxing ring light showers and everything and I lived upstairs because I always I was always in government contracted, right and what happens is like, you know, I work from the house, so I began to teach and it was one of those.

[00:16:26] Things where I taught for a nominal fee like 60 bucks a month right come to as many classes as you want and it was like I do downstairs and like a doing afternoon like a lunchtime class and go back upstairs and go back to work. But you know, it was a great situation and you know for years I taught there and basically the name the Asylum came out because I was one of the first guys to be coaching people for grappling and mixed martial arts back.

[00:16:49] He's back in the day. They was his head Zone. Henson was great kukoc in New York, right and then there was there was a guy in New Jersey who was a blue belt at the top. Okay, and [00:17:00] that was it. So it was going with every Everybody Just referred to me as a crazy guy in the basement. Okay. So in other words the Asylum just took off and it can students level and there is another club in Las Vegas called Iron Asylum.

[00:17:15] Right? Isn't that the one that Matt used to train? I don't know that is used to train as far as I knew he was trained at all. He was above. Yeah, the militia guys up on Northwest. Yeah, right. Right, right. Matt was a great fighter. He was over here. Obviously whatever Tim know I you know, I stopped following MMA at one point.

[00:17:37] I just didn't I didn't watch it anymore. The tremendous injury like a car accident type thing. I didn't know that. Oh, I wish him. Well, I hope he does. Well, I think he's got traumatic brain injury. If I'm not I'm not I'm pretty sure that's what it is. He's got he needs to hook up with dr. Mark Gordon out at Millennium Health in Los Angeles.

[00:17:57] He's doing amazing things with guys with TBI [00:18:00] reversing they're changing their lives. Jay life really? Yeah, so I don't know if anybody is listening who knows Matt Nathan Haney just comment that I want to put this up there. He said I'm fighting for the State title in two and a half weeks and thank you for your condolences.

[00:18:14] I found out I was offered the title fight the day after he passed four weeks ago and I accepted immediately. It's what he would have wanted me to do. I'm sure that's what he wanted you to do. That's wonderful. Good luck Nathan. I have a guy fighting Friday night. Who last week most his brother and you'll be being a coach and wanted to watch out for my guy?

[00:18:37] I'm like, you know, his nickname is famous. Okay. Am I famous? You know, do you really want to do this? You know, there's not a lot of time between now you just buried your brother. Like he said my brother told me. Do it. I have to do it. In other words, don't let me down and it's kind of like, you know, I think sometimes you can turn a real.

[00:18:56] Yeah, I was just gonna say that I'm [00:19:00] doing this for him. Yeah and the tough things in life. Like I'll be honest with you just training for me has always gotten me through the tough points in life, but worst parts of my life when I beat that injury or sickness and I had an extended time off from training so my coping mechanism was gone.

[00:19:17] And that's when you feel the worse that I'm the same way. I mean, I mean and I think most of the people in this audience can relate to that when you train you always feel better no matter what's going on in your life when you don't train it just like it's like a spiral you just kind of spiral out of control.

[00:19:31] You have no no Direction. You don't feel good anymore. Yeah. It's part of the human condition. I've done shows in the past with Brooks cubic where I II postulated that just the way we have working group dogs. Dogs that are designed to work pull sleds hunt. We have working group Youmans we have humans who have have risen in The evolutionary process because they were strong.

[00:19:58] They were good Hunters they could [00:20:00] lift heavy stuff and that was their evolutionary gift and I'm one of those people I have to work in order to feel good. We don't honestly one of the people are always fascinated me was Teddy Roosevelt. Okay? Okay, no, not the guy box. The guy wrestled and the guy wasn't Egyptian no way back then and he was a big one that spoke on men's Duality and I can tell you this from a perspective.

[00:20:23] I retired from work when I opened a big school back East. I went through a divorce. I opened a big school and I'll be honest with you. I thought running a big school would be great and it was tough for me because it's kind of like I don't do martial arts that business. Okay guy comes in I can't afford to pay that.

[00:20:43] Don't worry about. Okay, so everybody's there for free, right? Exactly. But at the time I had the money I went through the divorce then I got sick. So I had to I had to close the school down and move out to Vegas. But what it was is I also noticed a much happier when I do both work. [00:21:00] In martial arts because I feel more complete human being because when I just coaching and doing the martial arts, I feel one.

[00:21:09] We're about strength and conditioning all about this all about that and nothing else, but when I'm working and I'm on the phone with clients and everything like that. Certainly I you know, I'm working the intellectual side. I'm working the physical side and I just feel so much better as a person.

[00:21:25] Right, right, you know, it's interesting because you lived in Jersey for a while and Jersey also has you know, Jersey shares the Hudson River with New York and and that Catskill region and then the other side. Jersey which is Greenwood Lake area has we would like all the time. What's that are used to water ski on Greenwood dude.

[00:21:48] My Uncle George bought a Country House in Upper, Greenwood Lake, New Jersey with Rocky Graziano and Whitey Bim. Wow, and because that was so [00:22:00] there was either you either we were on the New York side boxing or you on the Jersey side boxing but that's all the boxes used to have their camps back in the day when I was a kid.

[00:22:09] I mean II remember boxes like Terry young at my sister's assisted one of my sister's birthday parties my I got an uncle that was a fight promoter. Back in the day named Frankie Cambria D and him and Graziano were best friends till they died. They both moved to Florida together. They lived like two doors away from each other if their children if you're familiar with you recognize the name Bobby helper that last name sounds very familiar to me.

[00:22:38] I did he was a he was a heavyweight bout my dad it boss. Okay, he was at it was good friend of my father's he was a heavyweight boxer who was a contender. Kill, somebody did times out remember have yes, I remember the story. I remember that story and then what happened is the comeback ended because he was in a bar in New York and somebody came in to rob it with a shotgun, right?

[00:22:59] He took the [00:23:00] shotgun away and I shot in the gut but from all the boxing physical training, he lived through a 12 12 gauge to the gut. Yeah. Not that's a that's saying something man. That's a gun tissue was so thick it never got through to the vital organs that to me. So so so you start in Jersey, but now you're out in Vegas yet again another hotbed for Fighters.

[00:23:21] I mean Vegas is where all the top fighting clubs are today, right? Yeah, there's a I'll be honest with you. I love it. And I think I came to Vegas at the right time in my life and at the right time in the sport and maybe because of my attitude now, I actually want a free school. So it's kind of like it's weird in New York.

[00:23:44] There was always because you grew up with each other and your schools grew up. There was always just like, you know, this guy doesn't like that guy. This guy doesn't about you know, we lose his only crime was part because I. Politics, right? Yeah. Yeah, I don't care whether it's Fitness jams [00:24:00] everybody.

[00:24:00] Everybody's got something to say about everybody else. Everybody my mind. Everybody's wonderful every Combat Sports. Wonderful. I only dog people that did the magical mystical like no-touch Knockouts one of your cross. Oh, yeah. I see that guy. I just think he's got really bad Bo and bad breath.

[00:24:16] Yeah. I seen him. It's kind of like, you know, I think I came at the right time because at my age it seems like I move to a new area. Korea and the community seem to accept me with open arms, which was really nice. I made more really great friends out here. Okay, simply because maybe I'm at this different stage of life.

[00:24:37] And now like I'm kind of Elder Statesman and Sport, right? Okay, Hey listen, you can go of me all you want. Okay and like everyone smile. I asked my wife my crazy wandering around 56 walking out on the mat and I'll be honest with you how many praising and and like I know I'm one of those people completely realistic I take super fights with guys in their twenties.

[00:24:57] I knew just many I went okay, but [00:25:00] at least I'm hanging it that it I do what the people. Shoes, I got to need the paths. They can shoulder the fuck. You're going to get your lifetime and stuff catches up on you. But looking when I when I do people when I do the over 40 divisions, I'm freaking dominant, right?

[00:25:14] Okay. Why should I give it up? Right because I watched you today on YouTube fight a young guy a guy that was much younger than you and a bit heavier than you in a grappling match. I want to stay with either his first name or his last name was Alexander. I can't remember which guy was but I mean you you.

[00:25:32] Moving him around he was bigger than you you were moving him around you kept him dance and he didn't have any chances. Yeah right guy and it was kind of it was kind of interesting because that was my first super fight at top tier level. It was like to win later again answered and said fight to win right - oh and I had applied because they were doing a show in Vegas and I'm like y'all see they take me and it was kind of funny because he offers me their number one guy at 205 [00:26:00] right?

[00:26:01] I'll be honest with you. It was my first step back from let's say a tournament to top level, right? Okay. So on I don't know I'm gonna hang with this guy, you know it is it going to be an issue I ended up losing but will you lost but he didn't have an easy time with you you are in fact now that you tell me about how you like to put your head out early in the fight.

[00:26:25] You got the the ref said tyranny, but that you buddy him. Yeah. He offered me in the head. Yes, Gabe got on top and one of the top of group the blood on him. So they take me over to the doctor and it's so funny Doctor looks at me and says we're going to have to stop the fight. I look at him like a first of all it's not a fight.

[00:26:41] It's a grappling put tape on my head. So basically he raps take one out, right? Yeah. Yeah. I know that was kind of like, you know, it was a great match for me, even though I lost because it told me hey I can still hang with these guys. How old was that kid? He's got to be in his late 20s early [00:27:00] 30s, Maybe.

[00:27:00] What was the wizard 32 or 33? Yeah early 30s, I mean you and you will he thought he was gonna have a easy time with you I think and I think he realized oh man. This guy isn't going to make it easy for me at all. I mean you you tied him up. You tied him up a couple times where I thought there was one point where he gave you his leg and I thought you were going to lock his leg out.

[00:27:21] Quite truthfully it made a mistake on my lockdown with the submission and he got out of it and that's not taking anything away from him because he was good. He did everything right but like I really had a lot of fun in that match at them submission underground, which is another Big Show twice and it was so funny.

[00:27:36] I the first time I did it, you know, I'm one of those guys my preferred way class is 205.  Okay, but I'll go anywhere from 2052 Ultra heavyweight. Really. So they offered me originally they offered me a magic 205 and it fell apart. So I decided to take one at Ultra heavyweight and I got this guy that was.

[00:27:57] Six-six [00:28:00] maybe 250 and a real athlete the guy had been like a professional Surfer no professional volleyball player. Yeah, he was a certain. He's a surfer and like a jujitsu guy really good athlete and it was kind of funny. So it's I forgot to pack on some muscle. I went up there and my shoulder dislocated.

[00:28:22] You're early in the match. Your just come came completely out and I said right shoulder but it managed to strength training kit to make it better. They told me I needed replacement, but I'm just refusing to do it until it. Finally. Yeah till it seizes up like the Tin Man in the Wizard of Oz exactly when I can't wait, but it's kind of funny because it went from being a I'm in the range else on an interview with the cage.

[00:28:48] You tell us on an interview smoke and it was kind of like, you know, And it was kind of a cool thing, but I'm thinking to myself I'll go downstairs. I'm thinking man. I'm done. You're 53. I don't know I can come back from this. [00:29:00] Okay, I went to leave that building it took me an hour to get out.

[00:29:04] People coming up and posing for pictures with me people asking for My Autograph so many people telling me that. Oh man you inspire me. I'm going to start training and everything like that. And that's one of the really cool things about this journey in my career. I would say I've had three careers I had 15 to 26 and that was me running around trying to be the baddest man on the planet with all those young ideas that like, you know us young and stupid.

[00:29:30] Okay, then it was the comeback. From 36 to early 40s where I was doing it to prove doctors wrong interesting right now. I'm just doing it because I love it. Yeah, it's also kind of cool is the amount of people to contact me on Facebook. The amount of people contact me to tell me I'm inspiration.

[00:29:49] All right, I'll change their lives. I've had a couple guys stop by Vegas who are like 40 years old and competing who tell me like your hell. I can do a forty-year-old division if you're out there competing with the [00:30:00] kids. And it's between you and I it's just so cool at times to realize that doing what I love can help other people act.

[00:30:09] You're not going. You're not going to inspire other people you're doing it because you love it. Yeah, exactly. You know, it's like I Inspire. What do you mean? I'm a Nut Job. I'm 56 years old when I roll around on a match before I punch people in the head for fun. Okay, you know how inspiring is that?

[00:30:24] Right right. Now it is because the ultimate exhibition of strength is. I've said that before when I used to do military Fitness radio with Nate Morrison, you know, and he's that he trained Special Forces guys, you know, we can all do CrossFit and we can all deadlift way. But at the end of the day you life isn't on the line and the reality is while grappling people may think your life isn't on the line but it guy puts you into a Chokehold and you tap the difference between dying and tapping is this [00:31:00] much your body still goes?

[00:31:01] Oh crap, we're going to die. Like this guy is it's choking me out. I see it a lot with new guys to come to school, especially if you get a guy who did some powerlifting. Or somebody building and I would get a kick out of between the toe. Okay, powerlifting translates bodybuilding is useless for fighting really interesting.

[00:31:21] You know, those big biceps. Yeah, they get in your way. Yeah, I was gonna say you can't how do you get that on the guys throat? Yeah, right exactly. Exactly. But I between I took creatine for a little while on hated it because you put too much be so pumped up I couldn't choke.

[00:31:41] But I like I wish I always tell people with different types of strength, but the first time you've work out with somebody a lot of times it becomes. They you're starting to go for chokes. Nice and easy. You're moving your hand Suddenly It's World War 3 for them, right? They certainly start fighting to their lives because they get scared right?

[00:31:59] Because [00:32:00] it may be the first time in their life that they felt absolutely help. Right? Right, right. Okay, they're using every muscle in your body. They're starting to get tired. I can't tell you how many times I've had a guy quote unquote inadvertently hit me. We're inadvertently stick your finger in my eye while I was rolling with that, right?

[00:32:18] First couple times they've been in its way. I like to roll with new guys because I don't get upset right? So I understand the Panic reflex. Yes. He's choking me. I'm going to die half right exactly. I'm right human nature where sometimes you get a guy who's been training for you. MF you just poked me in here and look right, right.

[00:32:37] Yeah, it says so the idea is you realize that, you know newer guys dependent cake. They never thought it was like that before they've had 10 street fights in one everyone suddenly then work it out with the guy who helped us against right? Right now it's really good. And now this is a great segue for us to take a break and come back and talk about what type of work in the gym with the barbell with the dumbbell [00:33:00] translates into being a better fighter and a better Grappler.

[00:33:03] How about that? Perfect. Perfect. I sit tight. We're going to be right back with more Phil Dunlap we shall return.  Welcome back to talking with Phil Dunlop. We'll talk now. We're going to talk about strength and conditioning. I'll providers and this goes across as you can see Phil is a lover of all the disciplines of fighting and grappling and wrestling and Brazilian jiu-jitsu and striking and it's and really there are certain things that you probably use yourself and you teach your clients that translate well into the ring.

[00:33:41] From the gym like you said bodybuilding stuff. It's not going to help you powerlifting. Yeah, because you you have the ability to force like I had a friend. I haven't spoken to him in a long time. Mike Miller. He's from Nazareth. Pennsylvania and he was the first guy to [00:34:00] Squad twelve hundred and twenty pounds in a full and a full media also benched 800 pounds in that meat and I think he deadlifted like 7:00 or something like that and Katie Richard.

[00:34:10] Oh, yeah, he was a monster back in the day he was and now he's down he's trimmed down and you know, he's changed. He's not his a power lift anymore, but he did start training for MMA. And he was doing great. A lot of guys on Sherdog were giving him crap because they were like, yeah, he's just going to gas out but what they didn't realize was this guy used to Barrel wheelbarrow walk small cars across football fields and those Highland Games and I'm like dude that's cardiovascular conditioning whether you realize it or not.

[00:34:42] Another strongman competitions those guys that strength translates constant right workout couple of them. And what's funny is they usually pick it up quickly, but they also don't usually over muscle because they already know how to use their body properly because the lift up one of those big big [00:35:00] Stone balls.

[00:35:00] You need to coordinate the motion so well with all the balancing muscles the core muscles that you need your eye between you and I idea. I'm very sports-specific right don't care what I look like. I honestly believe that if you train hard you look halfway decent right? No way around if you take care of yourself, you can look better to eat, right?

[00:35:20] You're going to look better just simple right, you know, he's gonna like there's no magic pills. There's no easy way you do, you know, if you're looking for that Fitness in sports do something else. Yeah. Okay Bruce anything you I was called the bust your ass principal. You want to go to something.

[00:35:37] You've got to bust your ass, right? Gabriel you don't you're kidding yourself, you're wasting your time. You're wasting your coaches time, whatever. Okay, but I do the three components to any any strength and conditioning program for sport. Number one the kinetic change used during your sport.

[00:35:55] Okay, you need to be extremely strong for that now. Okay. Now, [00:36:00] how do I use my hands with striking or grappling? Generally my Palms are like this. They're facing each other when I move my hand out like that right when I grab somebody so when I do when I do pull-ups, what grip am I going to you neutral?

[00:36:15] Yeah. I'm going to use this grip right and I'm going to focus on tucking my elbows. Into my ribs. Okay. That's the motion are used when fight right? Okay, so it will be a strong at that motion as possible. Secondly. Okay, you've got your sports specific motions, then you're going to have what I call the muscle imbalances.

[00:36:37] Okay. We have noticed a big tendency among guys that do the high school work. Chest and biceps right shoulder dislocation, right? I believe your shoulders are being pulled forward so that they throw a hawk and suddenly they pop their shoulder. I think I'm guilty of that. You know, you know, you know that after all these decades now if I go reach for something far away, I literally can feel [00:37:00] my I pull my shoulder out of the socket because I got to do something to get that back into the center of the shoulder.

[00:37:06] Yes, and most people most people like, you know, the American growing up wants to do the chest wants to do the biceps because you know that gets real sorry. Okay. So what happens is they're pulling bodies in a non-athletic motions. They needs to be some component of your training to is if you use one motion so much repetitively it you need to work the corresponding muscles to to balance it out and prevent injury and if the.

[00:37:35] Is some sort of War conditioning in other words something to something to to train your heart to pump the blood. Okay, and and I'm one of those guys I came up old school. Okay. I consider myself an old school guy. With an eye towards science. Okay. Okay. I do a lot of research. Okay, in fact, like, you know, I research everything, you know, there was one coaching guys.

[00:37:59] I [00:38:00] know some guys going to take PE days. Okay. I tend to be a health nut. Like I'm a vegan and everything like that. So it's kind of a but I research PD so I know which ones they should take my find out a guy's taking winced. It drives joints out. You're going to have more joint cares. You're going to have a very short career transaction be taking Trend.

[00:38:17] He's got no cardio could vascular condition. He's gonna gas out in 10 seconds in there. Exactly, and that's what I try to tell people, you know, your stick something in your body. You're going to follow workout program. Why follow something is counterintuitive to what you're trying to accomplish a good guy taking Deccan holding water than trying to cut weight.

[00:38:35] Right, right, you know, you know, this is why so many of these guys they do things wrong. So they end up hospitalized cutting weight. I can cut 25 pounds in 24 hours, right? Okay. I don't it HotBox what HotBox the sweat this is another thing that like. It's changed me. I used to be the old guy. So Anna all right a cut but the exercise bike into Sona right here are the specs [00:39:00] right Mom.

[00:39:01] Okay, then I read about sodium Beth. Hmm. What I do is I put I put Epsom salts Wintergreen rubbing alcohol in a whirlpool and I just sit in it. I cut my I cut my carbs I cut myself. Like for the week beforehand, I hop in I usually lose about 4 pounds every 30 minutes.  No, kidding is reverse osmosis because the sodium level of the water in science and it's going to draw the fine without of the body that's amazing which this year to begin between you and I when I studied science behind it you okay, when you do reverse osmosis the world of pulls first from Under the Skin then the muscles then the organs when you do it by exercise.

[00:39:47] First of all slothful trying any organs then Under the Skin right when you do it by the hot box first the organs then the muscles because he after the half of the stuff is coming out for your breath, right? [00:40:00] Okay joke is much easier to rehydrate afterwards. If you do reverse osmosis, I got to put something up here and I'm going to put his other comment up in a second to so Joey Angelo must be a friend of yours.

[00:40:10] He said Phil he's 20 pounds of blueberries every day every third day every third day. Seriously. You don't know no. No, he looks like between you and II for dinner, I have two pounds of raw cashews. Oh, I love cashews raw. I love rock. I did we. In a my diet, I you know up until I was you know in my early 40s.

[00:40:33] I've never been heavier to 180 pounds when I fought my walking around weight was 170. That's what I walked around that now I can get up to 225. I've been has had these 2:30 when I go on a realistic test, right? What it was is the I'm a lifelong vegan. I've always taken protein. I want to we're going to talk about that.

[00:40:52] I want to save that for the end of the show because it's really interesting that you're not only a lifelong vegan, but you don't want anyone else to be vegan if you can help it [00:41:00] because you feel like they don't do it. Right. So I'm going to talk about that too at the end of the show. So just save that.

[00:41:04] Yes. Yes. My eating habits are legendary. Okay, so and also Joey Angelo who must know a lot about you you must train with you right? Does he train with you? He's a good friend. Okay. Okay. So he says that Olympic lifting is the best for MMA fighters and I tend to agree with them because Olympic lifting is dynamic.

[00:41:23] It's explosive. You're moving weight. It's it really is kind of like when you have to when you're because you're either in idle mode or you're. Drive in the ring when you're idle you resting a little bit you're waiting for that opening you waiting for him to put his leg in the wrong place. And then you got to snap fast.

[00:41:40] You gotta roll fast, you gotta move fast. So I kind of agree with him that Olympic lifting would lend itself to MMA. What do you think? I agreed to a two-point? I got lucky. Your typical guy doing a lot of calisthenics. I was 147 and it's kind of funny. I went to I went to the gym back home in Jersey and like you I was friendly with guys [00:42:00] like LTE Phil Simms people like that.

[00:42:03] Okay, and what do you naturally do when you go to the gym your fighter? So people talk. Okay, you're accepted right away. I know your little guy right I think you can kick their ass. Okay, so then I feel so I start of course working out with the bodybuilders all of whom are supplementing with Peds and everything like that, right?

[00:42:19] Okay. Not now. I'm then one day in a tank top, you know on my mighty 16th set for chest, right? These guys didn't work out the front door units work out. Right? We'll do it ourselves, right the stricken conditioning coach for the Giants walks by and looks at me because at this point were friendly but each other's chops.

[00:42:38] He looks at me because carving bone carving both exercise. You need a chest. Yeah. Right, I wasn't back and triceps, right? Hey, so what's funny is he said work out with me for a few months and I'll change the way you view working out best thing that [00:43:00] ever happened to me. He got me into things like, you know not I agree to a degree Olympic lifting is the best because it's several factors the science behind you and one of the things I'm I'm on is is physical programming there's motions.

[00:43:16] And what I came up with is I use a lot of dumbbells. Okay, because I need and then I can see why because unilateral work you you don't end up with what a weak side in the strong side you waiting. Everybody's working the same. I also do most of my exercises on the Swiss ball. Really? I do I don't my incline bench.

[00:43:37] You got a Swiss ball. Okay, and like when I when I say it's so funny when people try you like a big strong guys now I get down and I'll do like a hundred thirty pound dumbbells crying I'll pop them up and get like 89 reps. I'll get some honesty got a Swiss ball on a Swiss ball. I've got a video of it on the internet actually I gotta find that but but what was funny is I've had guys that like [00:44:00] way stronger than me try it for off the ball, right?

[00:44:04] It's funny, but it's kind of like we're doing that not now what planes of motion are you using your body and you're working your whole core. You're working your body and you were sad because like when you're striking and grappling you throw a punch. I don't know whether it's going to be a punch or kick sometimes so my elbow and knee slide together standing up and I bring them together with my abdominal cavity.

[00:44:26] So your body has your body has to be the bench your body has to be the bench exactly in the woods. You basically work your body through unusual planes of motion. Okay. Also, there's a lot of little balancing muscles that you use in grappling or striking that you're not going to work in within a wait.

[00:44:45] You're like for the sake of argument people laugh at me when I do free squats on a Swiss ball. I stand in a bowl my feets kind of sideways and I just do like, you know, I used to do with thousand now I go if you want. Body body weight, you're talking about body weight. Yes, you're [00:45:00] balancing the whole time.

[00:45:01] She working those little muscles in your ankles those little those, you know, that's got to be that's got to be really good for so as we age I say we figuratively the population and we start to lose ankle mobility and part of ankle Mobility is those small accessory muscles that get stiff and don't work anymore.

[00:45:20] That's gotta be good for that. Yes, it's and it's huge and one of the things I try to tell people whether you're fighting or any sport one of the most important components Nobody Breaks it down to his joint articulation. Yeah, right. Okay, let's say I'm escaping a move like two ways to do it. I can use the sheer power or I can articulate a joint as I'm taking an angle when you punch if you just like your bench pressing.

[00:45:44] There's no real power on it. But if you articulate your hip and shoulder joints together, you're getting real power. Right, right. Pinterest I'm a big one on the science behind what when I'm teaching a move not the move but why it works but choke is nothing more than [00:46:00] pinching the Carotid artery salts.

[00:46:01] That's it. Once you start to understand that you start to self-correct same thing with weight lifting. The thing is if you're picturing emotion, like every weight lifting exercise I do I'm picturing boom something in a fight. Interesting. I'm blown away. I'm thinking somebody's on top of me. I got to take this initial model, right?

[00:46:21] So, okay, so the deadlift. Right. I got to believe that the deadlift is a good movement for a fighter because when I used to watch Matt use, he would take guys that were bigger and heavier than he would lift them off the ground walk them over to the middle of the ring and throw him down and I would say to myself.

[00:46:37] This is a guy who's been lifting bales of hay on a farm since he's nine years old. Okay, if it is if anybody any my students is out there listening, they will recognize this and I'll keep it clean. Hope the elbow hump his leg. Okay, if it had lit, right, right, right, right actually screened on a mat to one of my students grappling [00:47:00] with one of my friends asked his face right in other because you wanted to produce to use the glutes in the hips to bring them up, right?

[00:47:07] Yes, because I'm trying to coach him through the movies not doing finally ice cream. Goddamn as his face my buddy. Matt and says I can't believe you told me to F myself and I look at him. I say did it work ha ha because I can tell you that keep your hands up. Keep your coach. I am he gets punched in the face, right?

[00:47:27] What? What do you push your face? I guess my hands were down. Yeah normal people do not know how to engage their body properly and it was like even an athlete who comes in he's grappling and his legs are flat on the mat. He's just using his upper body. That's the first skill. You notice between a really good Grappler and an intermediate Grappler.

[00:47:47] Is it really work to coordinate the legs and the arms and same motions at the same time. So what about body control? What about cardio? Right is slow steady state cardio really important [00:48:00] because it helps you grind out from round. There's an outlier to that on my opinion. I had a woman I Trend she was an older woman.

[00:48:09] She had her first fight at the professional fighting 52. She was an ultra marathon runner and she never got tired, but she was slow right but you just where people out with her face, right? Okay. My theory on Cordy was I want to be very similar to what I'm doing. So I'm a big wooden bleachers.

[00:48:31] Running the what waiting short explosions right by a rest. Let's say I'm going for take out before I hit the ground I can sit for a second regroup and then go to move again. So I like that long explosion and in recovery period so what I'll do is I'll run the bleachers. I called the quad four times back and forth.

[00:48:55] Okay Hugo Hugo one. And back. Okay, you do the whole [00:49:00] bleachers and you go back this one you do you do for quads which one is a quad? Okay, and then you John the quarter-mile then you do it up right kind of simulate fight training, right? Okay, because I'm always about what is your body doing during a fight.

[00:49:18] Do you deal with a view it as a coach when you're watching a fight. Do you actually see that so. When I was a kid, I box for pil the Police Athletic League and and Brooklyn and they used to have us do everything in three men. They had the Bell the Bell would ring you did it for three minutes and then it would ring it was sitting then you would sit at sit out for a whatever was a minute then you ring and you do it so it built that that cycle of effort into it.

[00:49:46] Do you see that in the ring? Do you see a guy gas out and intervals and think oh, that's cause his car he needs his training that way. He's because Connie West. Also, there's other factors. I always I always joked around like The Green Mile you take it you're [00:50:00] taking that walk to death row, right? I seem more Fighters died backstage before the fight.

[00:50:06] Mmm. Okay, because what happens is remember something nobody understands if they haven't done it the walk the day up. First of all, you just cut what. Okay, which is torture with it in itself. I call it ritual purification. Basically, I actually picked up by the Burmese secret police one time and he tortured me and part of the torture was not giving me water and keeping me up for long periods of times dehydration and lack of sleep.

[00:50:33] Most guys can't sleep tonight before their fight.  But the night that cutting weight and then they cut weight. So basically they torture themselves to get ready. Okay. Now the get the get to the event, okay that the sit around all day and think about re-entry to know about done that. Okay. Now remember most people are afraid the most common fears.

[00:50:54] Public speaking.  Okay, that mankind has when they do service. They always say it's public [00:51:00] speaking now instead of getting up in front of a thousand people and talking you're going to take your shirt off. Stay in the cage. And for the one time in your life, you know, every one of those thousand eyes is on you.

[00:51:13] You look across the cage and there's no other guy who's been training just as hard as you are the most to beat the living snot out of you. Okay, I've seen great Fighters like one of my guys he won three titles. He lost his first five fights his fifth fight or six fight. He showed up and it was kind of like all of a sudden I said.

[00:51:35] Kyle you showed up tonight after the fight he won in a minute, right and he put on like it was a clinic between striking take down a grappling and I just saw it come together. Finally. The guy I had seen any Jim showed up in the cage. And from that point on he went on a tear I've seen that a lot you'll be takes a while especially for guy you look I actually had a hundred twenty five pound kid who his first [00:52:00] sports endeavor.

[00:52:01] You remember 25 you don't have a lot of options. None of the basketball. You can't play football, right? You can actually probably too small and high school's baseball, right? Okay, so it was kind of like he shows up and what's the first competitors for he does mixed martial arts. Okay, he was so nervous beforehand.

[00:52:19] He threw up three times then when he was done he threw up again and looking at him in the bathroom and I'm going to do. How the hell are you throwing up that there's anything in there? What are you doing? Where you getting it from? Yeah, why times when you see a guy guess I'm talking high level Pros.

[00:52:37] I'm talking like, you know when you see him when you see him at the starting Stitch you the key career If energy management and happens each step of the career amateur you get used to then you turn pro. Then there's another learning period then you could call to the Big Show and suddenly you're fighting in front of 20,000 people.

[00:52:55] Instead of to write a big difference and I noticed a [00:53:00] difference is in this great for guy who wrestled or play football or play basketball, but especially Restless because you're used to being the guy in a one-on-one support, right? Well for Oxford, he's used to being the guy everybody's. Right.

[00:53:12] Yeah, I can see that. You're just you get washed out before the fight even starts. The guy Medicaid is part of 20. He fought recently he was hyperventilating before we walk down to the cage. And now this kid could do I swear to God twenty three minute rounds. In the gym, right he was doing three two minutes comes out the first round on fire Lasik it up takes him down.

[00:53:35] He's on his back Friday choking goes back to the corner. He was coach. I'm exhausted. I shot my wad. I'm down for the second round now, it's basically a war. He really can't get to take down in their slugging each other. I gave him the first round by significant margin second round was closed he comes back.

[00:53:52] And I can tell he's toast I give him some water. I asked him. What are you feeling coach? I'm exhausted. I look at the other guy. He's [00:54:00] purple and I was so sad. All right, get back out there and win this goddamn rounds, right? So he comes out he got nothing the kids pounding on them with about 30 seconds left.

[00:54:10] The kid has come up against the cage and was unloading him and I could see the rest is about to step in and stop and I can also see him lowering his hand. He's got his arm up like this as long as he ain't thinking it's out. Ice cream God damn, you don't even think about it the right left combo the kid takes two steps back wobbled goes for take down.

[00:54:34] He hits the kidney the liver with the knee the kid falls to the fetal position and he's standing over them staring at him like what him he can't even believe. What did he write? Timothy no position doing nothing, right but like three seconds left. I looked at him afterwards. I don't know man. I'm so proud of you.

[00:54:57] That was pure heart. He looks at me and says [00:55:00] no it wasn't but it won't have to deal with you afterwards. My equipment want to do is scared of you. That's what it was. Listen. We were like that when we were kids the cop could beat us up. We didn't care just don't take me home to my father because he'll kill me.

[00:55:16] Yeah.

[00:55:24] Okay, I know what they're going through. Okay, I'd rather do it myself because I'm helpless for inside and I always tell people I'm the best fighter in the world when I'm coaching because I see everything right? Okay, we're getting punched in the face. Not so much right now. I'm at the stakes just like they do.

[00:55:41] Okay, so it's got like a never give him a hard time over losing. I always try to build them up. But now you win in 10 seconds. I got one time he won in 11 seconds by Knockouts looks at me he goes. What did I do wrong? I looked

[00:56:00] [00:56:02] at him I said I don't know why sleeves strength and conditioning is a weapon like anything else in other words like guys. Time said to me you're soaking strong. Okay, and yeah, I am a got my strength and I bet Jim strength, but it's kind of like a tell people if I have it look, you know, everybody says, oh you should just use technique but in a moment of inertia, if I keep technique the arm, I'm just gonna try to rip it off right there are strong enough to rip your arm off.

[00:56:43] It's like that's your problem. Not mine. Right - apologize. I always tell guys don't apologize cause your daddy's bigger than his dad, right? I knew I shouldn't apologize for right if you'd be tired and lost that's not an excuse for losing you lost. You got tired didn't condition enough just like I say when I lose [00:57:00] by injury because of an injury.

[00:57:01] They may need you over my shoulder pops. That's not an excuse. It happened you want because I got in that cage knowing I had this injury knowing that it might have. More power to you. The reason to pop had to do with the fact that you pushed me to my limit so that the injury after right? Okay, but if you were a white belt in stock, and I'm rolling with you.

[00:57:25] Obviously injured not injured whatever but if you're a black belt in you're good and you go for move and I hope your leg and my shoulder pops you had as much to do with that shoulder popping out as a previous injury did because you stressed the shoulder to my present day Max and that's why I try to say, you know injuries are not really an excuse for losing because you got in there with them.

[00:57:47] Right. I knew my shoulder was a problem. I took match say to myself. I can beat you even with a bad shoulder and if I don't I lost right and that's why I tell people injuries are not an excuse to [00:58:00] be used. They're just a factor of the game because between when I don't know anybody who's ever got into a fight hard percent and if they did they're probably going to lose because they did train hard enough interesting because if you're not injuring yourself, you're not training hard enough, so it sounds to me in summer.

[00:58:16] My favorite lift the deadlift is not necessarily the right lift for somebody who actually the deadlift is a good one though, but I think I think of something you pointed out makes better sense. The atlas stone is a better lift for a fighter. Yeah, because he's got a he's got to get it. He's got to get his body around that and he's got and also your hands are more in the normal position where if you're fighting with somebody you're going to lift them as opposed to this.

[00:58:41] Now, let's say what up. What am I going to do? If I do a belly-to-belly suplex first of all, I'm going to wrap my arms around you and I'm probably going to use a Gable grip. Okay, because the Gable grip is the strongest grip for pulling your elbows back. Okay. What is it Gable grip to show me and I don't know what that is.

[00:58:56] Okay. Okay. I promised my buddy black kulick off and I have to [00:59:00] give him credit for this always called it a palm sandwich. Okay. I put this hand fingers over my thumb and this hand fingers over the blade of my thumb. Nah. Nah. Take your hands put it back together curl all four fingers around the top of your thumb.

[00:59:16] No, look at them down. Okay, I see like this ya know like it take this thumb. Okay, that's it. You're here. Oh, really? Yeah, okay. Okay. It's a strong emotion. Look at that. So let's say you're doing a belly-to-belly suplex which is where lined up chest to chest. I drop my weight. I gave a grip you I pull you back and I throw my hips forward and.

[00:59:46] Take you over with right, right. What is that lifting an atlas Stone? Yeah, that's it. That's it. That's what I'm saying Amy, but I think I've ever I think if you're a Grappler lifting an atlas Stone as a much more valuable lift and a deadlift absolutely, [01:00:00] but the dead, you know, if you're going if you're going to a regular gym, you don't have an atlas Stone the deadlift is a great substitute.

[01:00:07] Same basic motion. We still learning to engage your hips. Like I had an incident with one of my students. Who was he was working out at the gym. I work out at I look outside and it has an outdoor area too, and he's taking the power clean.  And turned it into heaven deadlift half a shrug and half a military.

[01:00:27] So come out and I go why are you training?  Get stronger. No. No, why are you doing that exercise? Get stronger, but why that exercise to get to get better with fighting I said, no you do not fight that exercise. It's supposed to be a power clean one single motion. It's not supposed to be all the way up throw your hips forward pull the weight off turn it over and bench, press C.

[01:00:57] And that the truth is a lot of Olympic coaches teach it in those [01:01:00] three spaces, but then you're supposed to string them together. Right, but he's just like it's just like when I take take a technique, I can't break it down even beginning to 20 20 different steps. I break it down to three. Was it good at three I break each segment down again.

[01:01:17] Hmm. Interesting. Okay, you know what? I tell you to swivel your hips to the left. Kick your leg over his head pinch your knees together ratchet your feet down to your butt. Okay, that's just too much at once. Right, right. Okay. So what I do is every time I teach you move I pick a different Nuance to focus on.

[01:01:38] It's just like it's just like with lifting. Yeah, you have to learn if you don't do a Power Clean you better be able to death with you have right. That's the starting movement right there. Right shut up with you. You'll teach the Denver takes the Denver takes teach to them look then you got to teach him to get it from here to here, right?

[01:01:53] No, I got it. I got it. I want to take a last commercial break and when we come back, I want to talk about the fact that you are a [01:02:00] vegan. I want to understand when you became vegan and why boy it's tough working with one eye. I got to tell you something it is. You don't know man. I can't wait for this to go away Phil.

[01:02:10] You have no idea. This is you know, what?  I don't want to say too many things about my past but I've had some serious injuries as a young man living in, New York. And I this is the worst thing that's ever happened to me. It's his four weeks of continuous pain. It wakes me up in the middle of the night.

[01:02:28] I'm so miserable. I really it's just if somebody said to me, this is the rest of your life.  Boom, I'm done. I'll be honest. I'll be honest with you. I've had a lot of injuries. I've actually been shot and stabbed several times. Okay, but like I tell people I tooth in here. Did the worst cause you can't escape?

[01:02:48] Oh man. It's like my face. It's so close to my brain. It's my face. I let's take a break. We'll be right back.  Welcome back. Bill we [01:03:00] have your website on the bottom of the screen, but why don't you give it to people too so they hear it in your voice the website for my school is www Asylum fight team Vegas.com.

[01:03:14] And basically what I do out here is for since I moved out here. I've been teaching on the side. I have my own business and I happen to be very successful so I can afford to do it. I basically was teaching at an RV garage at my house for free. And what happened is we ended up my son's both, you know, we're going to college ended up moving out and everything like that.

[01:03:33] So we downsized recently moved to a different area of town. So I moved the school into the gym and my situation is at the gym is I actually teach for free but you have to join the gym for $30 a month. So basically you get mixed martial arts and grappling. For and a full gym membership and it's a really sweet Jim.

[01:03:51] It's called Universal Health and it's to Universal Fitness and it's changing its name to Dragon Gym and he's actually helped us [01:04:00] out a lot pump some money into our program Jay the owner runs. What is it? It's a City Athletic out here in Vegas and he's a great guy and you know, he's really been helping us out and the idea is I partnered with another guy who runs Rebel mixed martial arts and I.

[01:04:17] Teach my classes for free and if you join the gym for $30, you can take my classes and where it's on Flamingo Road. It's on Flamingo Road is not that far from the strip. We used to be up in North Vegas. Now, we're over in the Henderson area and we have a fight team. We have a lot of guys that fight I have everybody from a Weekend Warriors to and when I say we can worries that's not the Raga Tori.

[01:04:40] I don't care whether your goal is fighting Fitness. Just getting in shape feeling good always want to train it. I just love to train in other words. I have a high stress job. You know I go I get beat up. Nothing bothers me anymore. So like, you know, it's a great release it for me. It's like it's like mental therapy in other words.

[01:04:58] How can we be angry when you just got beat up? [01:05:00] Yeah. So the idea is, you know, it's just it's just a great situation for me and I'm having the time of my life, you know being at like I know I know but like this competition. I know I'm 56 years old and playing at the strip, but that no longer a world beater I go out there.

[01:05:13] I have fun. I enjoyed myself I coach a cage and and I just have a great time with it that you did nothing. Watching watching people change their lives. I've always I've. Been a big proponent of your Martial Arts and Combat Sports in general give you a fabric to live like they teach you certain lessons and it was that hard work pays off discipline pays off and and the idea is he's wesen to you apply them to the rest of your life.

[01:05:38] The reason I'm successful in like the reason I can have good relationships. The reason I have a good career is all the lessons. I learned to fight it people think of it as a bunch of thugs whacking each other and ahead. Meanwhile, it's a great crew guys. We're like a family. You know, I get invited to weddings baptisms all sorts of things guy and and in other words, we're probably because it's [01:06:00] free and there's no rigidity to it.

[01:06:02] And it's no BS but you would becomes big extended family, isn't it? Interesting? And I know you've experienced this in your life too. But when you're young there's somebody that you fight have a fight with and then you become best friends, then it's all the others. I'm one of my closest friends in college.

[01:06:20] We sat at the same lab table and he didn't want me sitting there and I didn't want him sitting there and we had words and then next thing, you know hanging out all the time. It's funny that that adversity like that physical adversity builds bonds that are hard to explain to people who don't understand.

[01:06:41] I I joke around I actually did the ibjjf which is a big big BJJ organization it consider these two big BJJ organizations, but they're they're considered like the granddaddy. Okay, and I did their Nationals last year. I know get a woman like Division and then I went with a [01:07:00] really good guy in the finals of the open Division and it was kind of funny I ended up I went for what's called an imanari Roll But as I went for my money just popped out.

[01:07:10] Okay, and it. Funny because first first I thought the match was over. Okay, but that the medic guy comes out looks at my leg and I tell the he goes what should I do? I should just grab my foot and ankle so he grabbed my first he says I can't do that. Then what my students yells over. Don't worry.

[01:07:25] It happens all the time. He grabbed my foot dance on my knee Pops in the ref looks at me and says do you want to continue? I kind of look at him like yeah. Yeah. That's why I had you do that and he's a great guy looks at me now. I really don't want to. And I look at him like a why he took he just hurt yourself.

[01:07:42] I'm gonna be involved in that I go. Oh you win? Okay. Yeah, I had that's that's Championship. But that's that's real for that's real sportsmanship. That's what's missing today. And a lot of school was all about it. We spent the rest of the day sitting around BSA. Okay, and it's kind of funny. There was a tournament next month in [01:08:00] California, you know, I told him my story about like, you know beating health issues just that the other thing he invites me out to stay in his house for the term.

[01:08:08] Okay, you know we we met didn't know each other we try to rip each other's limbs off. Then he invites me to his house because he was like that when I did I had the distinct privilege. He's a black belt even a college wrestler, but he's been off of competition for a while because of Parkinson's.

[01:08:28] Because the park isn't okay Parkinson's y'all. Wow. Yeah, you know he was getting better and he wanted to start competing again and he came all the way out from Kansas to compete and I was actually not going to do the show because I hurt my neck. But everybody else in division to pull that we've been communicating online because he told me he would like to compete with me.

[01:08:46] So he I'm at a different event coaching and he texted me and said they were pulled out I said listen, I think I got one one match in me. I'll be over in a little while. Okay, so I go over I compete with them and so funny. I'm limping on to the map once I [01:09:00] started grappling. I felt great. I won the one my division and I want the absolute division, but it was kind of funny.

[01:09:05] It was a distinct honor because number one he was coming back from adversity. Like I wasn't he. Such an honor to be involved in that. Okay, but also I got to eat you so cool. I got to meet these kids. I got to meet his wife and I got to meet his parents were all sitting around talking before and afterwards and that's one of the things about like, you know, when your kids sometimes you're an idiot and you want to stop a mudhole in some guy's head and you're acting all Macho and tough.

[01:09:32] Okay, but still the moment is so pure savor it. Okay that guy just you win you lose that guy. Just bought the best. You have seen you out. You just shared the limit. You know without him okay with tell people ride to school without the school down the road. I've got nobody for my guys to compete against I want to do well cause I want to see my guys could be right and you want to see them compete against good quality Fighters exactly.

[01:09:59] What [01:10:00] so in other words like Drysdale is a great Jiu-Jitsu guy out here and look, you know, people want to say this that bye-bye, but these kind of know I love the Drysdale is great and he's got great students. Just give my guys great guys to compete against. Right. Okay. I want I want Drysdale to make a million dollars.

[01:10:17] I wanted was to blow up. I want the other guy this guy cast out. I want his schools to blow up guys. I want everybody schools to blow up and do great. Okay, because it makes the whole Community better if we're going to tournaments with 5,000 people, you know, it's fantastic. Now several people I'm just going to put these back up there really quick.

[01:10:37] So the first guy I got a we got a couple segments here. I want to go back to so let's see hit David Ren janken says Phil kicks ass and then he also said and then he also says that a pound of nuts. I guess he's talking about your on your rear cashews. Phil is a great man. Great segment. That's from Zach Zeke.

[01:10:57] And then they try to fill is a [01:11:00] gift from God. He has blessed and helped so many people but I'm glad he's my friend and not my enemy. He said ha ha ha if you know me, you know, I have a light switch Yeah, like I'm the nicest guy in the world, but when I get angry like I'm a psychopath. Yeah. Well, you gotta be you've been trained that way.

[01:11:19] That's it. Now, I got to ask you the question that's on everybody's mind and that is when did you become vegan and why? Okay, it's a long story and it's not your typical story. My grandfather was an acupuncturist martial artist Indian. He was actually also Taoist which it was she's not odds or something.

[01:11:38] That was born Catholic. Okay. So what happened is because I lived with him so much I grew up the okay and he knew he knew about nutrition he knew about herbology and everything. So I I grew up healthy, but skin. Okay, you know I'm 6-1. I was 147 at 19 right at 15 when I thought [01:12:00] I 15 to 19. I was 147 I was skinny but in great shape, right?

[01:12:05] Okay, but the idea the idea was it's kind of like, you know, I grew up the again, you know, it was it was away my palette developed. It was to this day. I like I never liked ice. Interesting. I don't like sugars even was a candy bars. I don't eat them. I've never been to McDonald's. I've never been in Burger King, right?

[01:12:27] Like I talk with people. I've never had fast food and then for about four or five years I mixed other things into my diet like I like shrimp. Hmm. I like scallops. I like lobster. I liked every once in a while. I would have had a hamburger. Okay, I would eat meat every once in a while and when it was over southeast Asia for some reason, I developed a taste for books for what bugs.

[01:12:51] Oh what kind like the big the big grub scorpions. Are you I used to love roasted scorpions interesting. Yes. So [01:13:00] I develop some weird taste for different types of meat and I always felt better when I wasn't eating meat. It was hard for me to digest so what around 20 21 I went back to being vegan, but now I was doing a lot of research on my own and I knew I had to I had you'd better protein supplements, but I was trying to get bigger, right?

[01:13:20] Okay, so I qualified those days with Mike would be semi vegan and it was because I was using weight protein, right? Okay, like a lot of lacto-vegetarian at that point in your life. Yes. Yes. Okay, and I get that for years, but honestly now I realize in hindsight. It was a mistake. And like I said, I'm old school and very stubborn but if science can prove something to me or personal experience when I first wake cut through reverse osmosis, I read this Ayah.

[01:13:49] But I had to try it for myself. So we're not in the whirlpool and cut 20 times. I'm My Own guinea pig all the time. So what happened is for years. I ate a fruit based diet.  [01:14:00] And for the sake of argument, I would never have anything before lunch time.  And you also you're almost intermittent fasting at the same time.

[01:14:09] Yes, but I would have a protein drink and four cans of dull pineapple for lunch. I like pie. Okay, then at around five o'clock. I would have a protein drink and like maybe maybe a couple bananas. Then for dinner, I would like have a protein drink and maybe ten pounds of grapes to of watermelons something like that.

[01:14:35] Wow. Okay, and I ate those three meals a day and for years. I was like that long lean built, right? And then when I got sick, there was a pancreas damage of all my body doesn't secrete as much insulin this should so the doctor told me and at this point like, you know what I'm sick again all the way down a hundred fifty eight pounds.

[01:14:53] I moved out to Vegas. I wasn't training for about three years the medications. They had me on had me up around 185 190, [01:15:00] but I was kind of like a little below because I was hoping so much water from the medications. Okay, then and it was kind of funny because my son wanted to fight again. I started looking for a school to train at I contacted a guy I was having issues with nobody.

[01:15:12] Wanted to let me be in charge my son's training and he's not going to be your guinea pig. He's my son. Okay. So what happened is I found the school. I went by for class. I rolled with the owner the first night and like you said to me you can combine frame for free. But if you come by yet to teach that's great embarrass teaching grappling with front, right?

[01:15:30] Okay. Basically I started teaching there and I fell in love with it again. I thought I was done but what happened is I had to change my diet so I switch to and and up until then I'd always viewed in that very typical contest fat is around my midsection. So fat includes the enemy so I was almost out of zero fat diet except for essential fatty acid supplements interesting.

[01:15:55] Okay, which honestly now in hindsight was a mistake to handcuff my physical [01:16:00] like physical development. Okay. So what happened is with the pancreas damage I had to cut way back on carbohydrates, right? Okay, and at first it was for the record just for the record. People who go on fruitarian type diets usually end up with some sort of pancreatic damage.

[01:16:17] Now, I'm not saying that your pension to eat just fruit unless something else. Yeah. No. No, I know that I know that but I mean, but I'm just saying like people who go fruitarian. They usually end up with pancreas problems. Just just worried what mine was actually based on an infection that turned malignant.

[01:16:37] It was one of those things where when it came down to it when I came back. I tried kind of genic diet, which is what they recommend, right? It didn't like it because for me to eat enough protein.  And stay just protein and fat. I don't like when I kick it to ketosis. Okay. Okay. Don't like the way I feel so I [01:17:00] modified the diet.

[01:17:00] I originally went on and what I do is for two days for the sake of argument. I had my first meal now, I'm fully in a minute Fest. Okay. Okay. I have my first meal at like 3:00 in the afternoon. Okay, I have what's now a vegan protein shake? With hemp rice and pea protein and essential amino acids mixed in to make sure I had the full specs.

[01:17:20] I'm just gonna say it even with the pea protein. But yeah, you're getting all the amino acids that you need now, right, right. Okay. I have a protein drink and then I have six ounces of Warren's then at around 5:00 or so of a protein drink and 6 ounces of walnuts.  Okay, then. For dinner depending on trial whether and trying to gain weight or lose weight.

[01:17:45] I'll have a protein drink in either two or three pounds of raw cashews. How many how many grams of protein are you getting know? How what's your total bill didn't pay attention to it really but an enormous amount probably too much, right? Okay. Okay. My [01:18:00] kidneys have been check my blood levels, but my doctor says I'm the healthiest guy.

[01:18:04] He has no no and I'm not even getting it that when I'm saying no. No, I'm a high-protein guy. So I don't buy that whole protein equals kidney damage, but I was just curious if you're getting like 200 grams of protein a day or more. Yeah good for you good for you. You got you gotta figure 2 pounds of nuts is 32 32 ounces, right 999 grams of protein.

[01:18:27] Poor perhaps, right. That's right. It's almost yet. There's almost 320 grams. That's amazing. Really plus my protein shakes. Do you get your cashews at Trader Joe's? What was that? Do you buy your cashews at Trader Joe's go to us Sprouts because every couple weeks ago yourself. Because I find that Trader Joe's has the best most freshest nuts that I've found so far.

[01:18:51] That's I by I go to Kashi. I eat a ton of cashews to I love them raw cashews and I guess is pretty good. Yeah, [01:19:00] but what happens is I'm like third day. I switch my dinner to fruit but the sake of argument like 10 pounds of grapes.  Because that stopped me from going into ketosis God. Okay, and I just feel better.

[01:19:17] That way I have lots of energy. I move better and healthier and one of the amazing things and the doctors think it has to be from my my lifelong diet. I all my injuries not from broken neck to injury damage with my both. My shoulders both my knees my hips everything. I have no with writers. Yeah, that's amazing.

[01:19:38] None. Okay. They actually did you know, they did a few MRIs and x-rays and they found nothing like my shoulder needs to be replaced. Okay, but there's no arthritis in there right doesn't hurt right and it's kind of one of the things that drives me about veganism is drives me crazy is veganism is not [01:20:00] just not eating meat.

[01:20:02] Yes. I know because if people think they think of dough I'll just eat popcorn and Hot Pockets all day long. I'm a vegan. No, you're still eating crap food. Well, that's what there but that's what people don't seem to understand it which is a science between behind eating but people always oh, you're the biggest strongest vegan I ever met.

[01:20:21] Okay now I know other vegans. They're in great shape great athletes, whatever. Okay, but a lot of it is These Guys these guys take it to a scientific level. Okay in the idea is cutting out meat and eating some beans. He's not going to do it, right? Okay, right. One of the things that drives me crazy is when here kid parents are raising kids.

[01:20:46] On a vegan diet without without any research whatsoever. They're basically stumping a kids growth. Yes. Yes your and if it's amazing and I get into arguments on [01:21:00] the internet all the time because somebody somebody will start like going on about you. You should go vegan because he kills an animal bomb about whether you have again and it turns out when you going back and forth with them, they know nothing about nutrition, right?

[01:21:14] Okay, they thinking rice is vegan. It was a cut at me. Like I had a friend that was getting ready for fight decided to go vegan. Okay, he was eating fruits and vegetables. Okay, and he's dying and training and I know what are you doing for protein and I was telling even think about it. When you're getting ready for fight is not the best chain time to completely change your diet.

[01:21:39] That's just kind of like guys asked me what they should eat when they're rehydrating after the weight cut. What is your stomach comfortable with right? You look if you eat bean burritos every day.  Then he to be a Morita, right? Okay, that's what your body's comfortable with. It's not the time to change good.

[01:21:58] Really good, you know it's kind of like [01:22:00] when you're under high stress, it's not the time to give up coffee and see you're all so different as a vegan because most vegans want to convert everybody to veganism. In fact, you're quite the opposite. You tell people don't become vegan because it's expensive and it's a lot of work to do it.

[01:22:15] Right? Yes. It was I don't want to see people willy-nilly affecting their health. So one of the things that drives me crazy about Peds guy sticks a needle in his ass. It was meeting somebody bathtub. Yeah, he got no idea what it really is and you got no idea with that said his body. The guy is one of the one of the funny incidents from back in a school that I had is I had a kid get ready for a fight suddenly.

[01:22:40] He comes at Phil. Can I talk to you? Okay, so we go to my office and close the door because I can tell it's one of these private conversations and he's got I don't know how to brings up and I got the easiest ways always just to spit it out. And he looks at me and he goes, okay, since I've been picking up training for this fight.

[01:22:57] I'm having difficulties.  [01:23:00] Difficulty. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We're when I'm with my girlfriend I look at him and he can't get it up. But yeah, I'm having difficulties Jack and I have together. Okay, and I look at that the killer 24. Okay. So I look at him and I go. Okay. What do you take it now? I'm thinking maybe I maybe he started to take a little bit of tested too much Decker.

[01:23:22] Yeah, right. We've all done that natural assumption. So now I'm going to fly you find out if it wasn't I don't make value judgments you want to take it? Okay. So what happens is because I'm nothing like that about the only thing I'm taking is aspirin caffeine and ephedrine step because the old fat burner and I go dude.

[01:23:46] Do you know what the AC e stack is a thermal rennick dedicate little gonna go into that so constrictor. Okay. So now you burn it off all this fat, but you're in bed with your girlfriend. [01:24:00] Okay you go man. She's hot. But you're quitting is not getting the message because all the blood vessels are closed from the AC sector going twice, right?

[01:24:09] Because yeah, okay, then you say any self. Okay about an hour from now, I'm gonna get it to my girl. I've been with my girlfriend. So I got to take this blue pill. What is the blue coat o gives you a hard-on? No, no, it's a vasodilator. It opens up the blood vessels to your penis. So the blood can charge in when your brain says.

[01:24:27] Oh, she's hot right you take those. Okay, so it is kind of like I look at him and I say why not stop taking the vasoconstrictor today. You can not taking the meso died later. So you have a problem. Yeah. What is more cardio, right? Oh wow, and that's what drives me crazy. How does somebody stick a supplement to even in your body?

[01:24:49] But all these supplements? I see. Yeah, there's some supplements that work and some that are complete garbage and these people these people are taking stuff to some big guy at the gym told him it works. Well and plus [01:25:00] they won't they everybody wants a shortcut. Everybody wants it. They all want to show that they all want to get they won't want to look like they did the work but they don't want to do the work.

[01:25:09] Will is my favorite thing about teaching for free? Oh my God, I can't believe I've always wanted to do this. I want to be a fighter probably blah blah blah blah. This is the best thing ever first class. We never see him again. All right write him a couple years later at the store find out, you know, and I'm always thinking.

[01:25:24] Oh, maybe he joined another school. I wasn't a good fit now. He's not trained. No intention of being a fighter. He thought he did then he got punched in the face. Okay, Mike Tyson, Mike. Tyson said everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face and it's so true and I can see it instantly I get guys to get punched in the face and they get a little Grim.

[01:25:44] I know he's a keeper like a guy's had they walk in and they tell me I could throw these bad boys, then I seem to hit and I know they're never coming back are all right. Just listen between you and I 9/10 of training. He's getting beat up getting used to it [01:26:00] knowing that every time you give every time you get beat up and you don't die.

[01:26:03] You learn a little bit more. You know what I mean? You learn what almost kills me? Yeah, it's be stronger. Yeah. Yeah, and that's true and fights to when you were young said you've been in your in your and your first fight and you walk away from it you go why I didn't die. Because I could you when you never in a fight and you think oh I maybe he'll kill me.

[01:26:23] Maybe I'll die. Then you find that you don't die. And then you're like, oh I can do this I'm going to do this. Again. My favorite is the guy who comes by and tells me I'm like a little bit afraid of getting hit eight months later is in the wreck. Yeah. Okay, but is why him and not the guy who thinks he's a badass because he's honest with himself.

[01:26:41] I'm afraid. He's in the ring and he's like this, right? I'm fine, right and then they get into it tells you I'm a badass never is the guy who says I'm a little afraid of this turns out to have the heart of a liar Phil. What [01:27:00] is your fight? So you have a fight coming up at the end of June? Yeah, I have a grappling match in are doing the LA open with the NAB jjf on June 22nd and 23rd.

[01:27:12] And then the 20 and the next weekend. I'm doing the IBB ibjjf Nationals. I've got a bunch of stuff coming up. I'm doing two tournaments at the end of June to in July and three dollars. That's awesome. And so can people learn about that at your website to do you post on Facebook page if they look me up Phil Dunlap, do you n.l.a.p, right?

[01:27:35] Do you recognize it because it's a picture of Chael Sonnen interviewing me and it's one of those things where I'm always posting. I'm always posting. Yeah. Usually I usually stick to it Vegas Phoenix. LOL important is a big show important right because of the close to where you live. I hope that I hope that we can hang out next time.

[01:27:56] I'm in Vegas will have some fun, you know, dude. I love to about to get together. Yeah, [01:28:00] definitely definitely, but I'm not getting in the ring with you. I just want to hang out. I just want to eat I want to eat cow. Use with you. I love cashews. I dude at least I got mad at me the other day. She says where are those cashews?

[01:28:12] I says I ate them because we just bought them yesterday. I love cashews and I can sit there and eat them handful and handful that I don't know. You know, I never knew I never looked at how heavy that bag is, but I eat that whole bag in a day or two. I got to see how many pounds that is. I want to say now unite I buy them in bulk because I get like 20 pounds at a time.

[01:28:32] I love cashews Phil. Thanks for being here today brother. Thanks for having me. I was really looking forward to this because I love your show. Oh, thank you for saying thank you. Thank you and we'll do this again. And if you want to ask Phil questions send them to on are at superhuman radio dotnet and I'll get them to him.

[01:28:48] We'll have him back on the show to answer them. All right, brother. Talk to you soon. Thanks again for having me. Take care and we will see you tomorrow with the supremum radio. Actually. I think we're doing a show tomorrow. [01:29:00] About Eyes, ironically of all things see then.