[00:00:00] Welcome back to another episode of superhuman radio very very important topic today, especially because CBD is become so popular. I was at the farmers market this weekend picking up eggs and beef and lo and behold there was several people. They're selling lamb one guy was selling lamb and CBD oil another woman was selling organic vegetable.

[00:00:55] She had CBD oil CBD is everywhere [00:01:00] better. What would it be? Let me bring my buddy on dr. Matthew Andre. He's been on the show numerous times over the years. He's my good friend and he doubted of into CBD way before anybody else. Did he started digging? And a lot of the things he told me early on on now started come true.

[00:01:16] How you doing? Dr. Andre. I'm doing great Carl. It's just such a pleasure to be on here with you mean, what you do for for your listeners is just like nothing else. I know that they can get anywhere else in the world the way the way your I'm not trying to blow you up. But the way your mind works the Curiosity that you take to all of these topics around health is just it's ravenous and.

[00:01:38] You uncover patterns about as well as any critical thinker I've ever run into it's just a pleasure to know you and be able to do this with you. Thank you. And so early on you got into the you like Carl this CBD stuff that's really going to change things. It's really going to change things and a lot of the things you started doing that we're going to talk about today are now starting to go.

[00:02:00] [00:02:00] I'm going. Oh, wow, Matt was right. Oh wait Matt was right. And so this is going to be a really funny interview because in retrospect, The things you predicted are now coming true, especially since. Science is trying to catch up. So CBD use is outpaced the science Bed Bath Beyond sell CBD every week.

[00:02:21] Every convenience store has a CBD product aside from that ubiquitous dot the landscape of CBD. We have boutique stores that all they sell is CBD different brands different styles different doses different. It's amazing. How big this Market got so quickly. Does it surprise you that it got. Speak so fast.

[00:02:43] Yeah, no, it does not at all. I think it's still daunting to see it in practice because yeah, I mean we knew that CBD was going to explode in terms of use and it could have really gone a couple different ways. But so many people were seeing results. [00:03:00] There was such a public outcry that the people that really make a lot of these decisions to let's be honest a lot of the legislator like a lot of the legislators nobody ever wanted to come out and be against EDD you just your butt when it.

[00:03:12] Something like an 85 what grating? Nobody had the guts to say. No. So every place it's come up. It's gotten approved and is that's happened and people have been able to you know witness the benefits. I've honestly something that should have been in our pockets for ever. You know it we've had this weird prohibition against CBD and ham for the last 80 years when this is something that's been part of the human healing experience since the dawn of time.

[00:03:40] So, of course, this is something we evolved to in our environment for from eons ago and we just didn't I haven't had it accessible. And so yeah, I'm not surprised that to see this kind of Reawakening. What I am surprised with is just how quickly it's happened. And you know, I think it Bears a lot of discussion about you know, how people vet products [00:04:00] and find out what's right for them.

[00:04:01] So so let's jump right into it. It's so so. From an evolutionary perspective. We have an endocannabinoid system which means our body produces these molecules on its own and am I wrong to assume just like our mitochondria found its way into our body that we have evolved under the influence of cannabinoids to the point where they have become imprinted in our our genetics.

[00:04:30] Yeah, so that's that's very accurate. So what the the endocannabinoids really are is a system of signaling lipids and I get asked to lecture now because every clinician is a group every medical doctor conference. I know of they're just hungry for good science around this to understand it. So we're doing a lecture, you know, like at least once a month at some national or Regional convention because docks are so interested in having this information, but it's just basic physics.

[00:04:59] Ecology the [00:05:00] basic reason and while I appreciate getting to share this on your show CBD is HRT. It is HRT for endocannabinoid hormones. And in the same way that we have evolved to everything else in our environment hemp and the cannabis plant has been part of The Human Experience since before way before we had any history about it.

[00:05:19] There are people who believe that the reason we got into groups. Any larger than families was really around him. And the reason was because you could use that plan. For so many different things you can eat it. It's a super food very high in protein and mega fatty acid. You can feed it to your livestock.

[00:05:35] You can use the fibers in it for clothing and shelter and then the oils you can light lamps with and you can make Health extracts from something that's utterly useful and it's been part of just the basic human story, but we adapt to the things that are in our environment and then as our mutations, In our genome those genomes those mutations that are functional with the things in our environment get reinforced and reset up over and [00:06:00] over and over again.

[00:06:01] So whether or not it was anything that just came into our DNA it was that this plant that we ate in Justin had around us all the time the genes in our system that work well with it fit and got reinforced and now they're a huge part of our genome and they were referring forced to selection. In other words.

[00:06:18] We were selected for the the ability to. Utilize this molecule in our environment and that's what that's what selection pressure is all about. So now let's let's kind of we're going to Traverse back and forth the past and you know from an evolutionary perspective and then also to the present so one of the things that you told me early on was people are using way too high of doses.

[00:06:45] And you know, I'm a product of the 60s, you know, my audience knows I smoke weed and like come on, you know more acid is better than less acid won't so how could how could lower doses of CBD be [00:07:00] anything but not as good as high doses of CBD and early on you were saying Carl like a couple drops, but yet and that now we're starting to see evidence that that's accurate isn't.

[00:07:14] Yeah, yeah, we are and you know something else you as you get more information you get more research you start to get a more full picture but there's a very fundamental reason why two fundamental reasons. Why less than be more number one CBD is just like a number of things vitamin D example isn't something that we absorb all that well and especially when it's given in an oil form the whole reason you we own a gallbladder at least used to at some point is to turn.

[00:07:43] At soluble things into something water soluble to get into your system. Well, a lot of these products the most of them are in an oil or they're totally an oil base and they don't absorb the absorbed maybe 36 up to maybe 10% if you got a teacher and number one that you know, [00:08:00] very much influences how much you're going to get in your system.

[00:08:03] So but there are products out there that are more highly absorbed and with those you don't need as much but even if you equilibrated all that a very very important factor about CBD and really all of the. Abba noise is they have that a lot of The receptors. They work on what are called biphasic effects and what that means is that they do one thing at one concentration to lower concentration and they can have a totally different action at a higher concentration a perfect example of that with CBD.

[00:08:28] Is that typically low doses of CBD are calming they help with anxiety and they help with sleep but bigger doses start working on those receptors in different ways and it can be very activating and that's one of the reasons with this ends up sounding like snake oil because people say Well, it helped me with my ADD help me with attention and this pretty so help me with my sweet how to do both totally different doses can do different things.

[00:08:51] Okay so that but that but that is a murky subject because modern marketing. Focuses [00:09:00] on how much CBD you get for the dollar so the consumer is looking, you know, when you walk into one of these boutiques they have well, this is 3000 mg. Per ounce, this is 28 and so people are going oh that's obviously an important factor in contributing to the value and so on it becomes like Kroger's like how much am I paying a milligram of CBD?

[00:09:21] I want the one that has the most for the least the least price, but the reality is you don't need more you're now one of the things. You promoted early on when we talked was you were saying like are like 3 to 5 milligrams is all you need of of something that is water. Soluble that's getting absorbed and maybe 10 to 12 milligrams of 50 milligrams of an oil base that you're not getting as much.

[00:09:48] Do you still feel that way? Yes, absolutely. I mean the most I have given anybody was a patient. I had with complex regional pain syndrome and they just needed a very high tone to get that severe nerve pain kind [00:10:00] of under control and they were taking the equivalent of up to 20 15 to 20 milligrams a day.

[00:10:06] That's the given anybody 80% of my patients are on less than five milligrams a day and meanwhile when you look at the the the the average bottle of CBD oil and or. Even some of the water soluble ones. They are anywhere from 50 to 85 milligrams a milliliter and people are squirting whole milliliters in under their tongue.

[00:10:28] Yep. Yep, and number one. They probably paid a still a good amount for it and they're wasting 90-plus percent of it. And number two those higher doses potentially can have negative effects that you don't want. I mean paracelsus said it hundreds of years ago. The poison is in the dose. Anything in excess or deficiency can cause dysfunction CBD is not going to magically be different than every other substance on Earth.

[00:10:51] It has a really wide therapeutic index but there are there are limits to that and some of the research coming out now is finally showing it. So we're going to see this pendulum. [00:11:00] So it's great for everything. Oh my God now for the next six months, all you're going to hear is how risky CBD is I absolutely guarantee it and then the company was going to take advantage of that and they're going to start dropping their doses.

[00:11:09] They're going to start doing other things to basically follow that Trend the truth of the matter. Is the truth lives in the middle, like it always does and you're right. So people are already promoting. I guess there was not now this can happen in any industry. I mean, he'll they recall spinach at least once a year because it kills six people exactly.

[00:11:28] But but I guess they got some bad CBD out on the west coast recently and of course, you know, they promote that and then everybody goes ocpd is dangerous. I mean, I don't look at that as an indicator of danger. I do look at some of the research out there that is showing that there are some negative effects.

[00:11:48] We're going to talk about after the first break a specific study. That was just published on a pharmaceutical drug that is based on CBD and we'll talk about that later. But what else do you see [00:12:00] in the current literature right now that seems exciting about CBD that we just learned something new about.

[00:12:07] Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean we're getting those all the time and one of the things I want to say about this is you know it again the first time I heard about this I was very very reluctant to get into CBD even though we did it, you know really early on compared to many but my my wife she's been a long-term migraine sufferer and we've tried no fewer than 20 Pharmaceuticals over over years to get her.

[00:12:31] Some help maybe for a little while tons of side effects. You couldn't stay with most of now she takes absolutely none and the CBD she went from about three headaches a week 2122 a month. And that was once we got the dose, right and it's been absolutely life-changing. But even at that I said, well that's really great for you.

[00:12:48] So it was just something your patients might want and I said, well, you know, I don't know about the legality. I don't know about any data or studies on it. So, I don't know but it took me months to kind of come on board, but once I did I mean [00:13:00] Carl and the last. Of years, we've seen patients come off of about 250 different Pharmaceuticals in my you know, my practice is not super huge.

[00:13:07] We're picky about, you know, we kind of work with you. It's a significant portion of your patient. Yes. It's a very significant number and I'm talking awesome Edge that we know are deadly, you know, like benzodiazepines opiates Zolpidem NSAIDs my guide. I mean, we're throwing a fit about the opiate crisis and it's a big deal.

[00:13:26] We lose 40 to 50,000 people a year to that but we lose 15th. Near the end said right and nobody says squat about it, right? That's 1/3 and we've seen people stopped over a hundred and says with CBD for something that there is no known, you know overdose possible now, we'll talk after the break away that it kind of could be but in that we're talking about most of the products that people can get you have to drink bottles of it to get enough to really matter.

[00:13:56] But the point is that you know, we have to talk Apples to [00:14:00] Apples, right? So one of the things that's really exciting is helping people understand. You know, how they find a product that's that's that's meaningful or good. One of the issues we have is everybody uses the term CBD and nobody knows what the hell they mean by it.

[00:14:12] I've seen products out there the FDA just busted a company not long ago who was putting spice, you know, the synthetic marijuana and olive oil in a bottle and calling it CBD. So yeah, absolutely and so a ton of these products don't have a shred of CBD in them at all. They have something else. And they're just taking advantage of the the fervor that's out there but a big dichotomy that's out there between products is those things that are what we call CBD isolates and a full spectrum hemp oil and I'm a big believer that full spectrum hemp oil is the way to go and we can talk a bit about is about that right now because because I want to go back and step into the evolutionary process.

[00:14:49] So we evolved under. Under Hamp or cannabis in its normal form with everything that was endowed in that plant species at [00:15:00] the same time as the CBD now just like the just like the dairy protein industry found out Dairy protein was magic and building muscle and doing all these wonderful things. And then we said it was the way portion and then we isolated the way and now we come back and we go.

[00:15:15] Oh it turns out that the casein had something to do with it. And now we know that whole Dairy is. Better than whey isolate I feel like the same thing is happening to CBD we started with we because we focus on the letters CBD and not hemp. Everybody thinks well, I just want the CBD. I don't want the rest of this stuff that's wrong, isn't it?

[00:15:37] But that's absolutely wrong. There are over a hundred and twenty different cannabinoids in the cannabis plant and every people may know your listeners probably know but a lot may not talking about the difference between cannabis and hemp because that matters when people are talking about products legality and stuff like that camp is cannabis.

[00:15:54] The only difference between Camp type cannabis and marijuana just has to do with the concentration of THC [00:16:00] that's in the plant. So it's a legal definition. It's not a it's not a biological definition. They're all cannabis. But when we talk about hamper talking about the form that is now legal by the 2018 farm bill that you can get everywhere that you can still make extracts like CBD from but there are a hundred and twenty different cannabinoids in the hemp plant and they all have biologic activity in the body plus all the terpenes all of the flavonoids all the.

[00:16:24] There are compounds that are in there and there's Synergy between them the reason that we're seeing this fervor. And and one of the reasons of the CBD only a huge reason is cost good organic full spectrum hemp oil is tens of thousands of kilogram CBD isolate is cheap as dirt. So a lot of yeah, and so that's a reason that you're seeing one of these growths of cbdo people are saying well because that's what we have data on much more than we have full spectrum hemp oil, but the big difference.

[00:16:53] This is cost because you can throw CBD isolate and you know in a [00:17:00] dummy in a gummy and you know, so we got a thousand milligrams a box of these and it's 25 bucks. Well that is not a full spectrum hemp oil because that stuff runs about 30k a kilogram and it's a commodity mean the prices set. So if you're going to and the reason a full spectrum hemp oil is better is because again, you evolve to the whole plant not to the isolate.

[00:17:20] Same thing. They did. Dr. Davila points this out all the time. I love the way he talks about it, you know, all these studies connections between things like lycopene and prostate cancer. Well, then they do an actual trial where they take like peeing out of the tomato plant. And they sell. Nope doesn't work doesn't help prostate cancer.

[00:17:35] Well, it's because you didn't evolve to take lycopene. You evolve did eat the plant right and the same principle is to it's always that way, you know, like I told you I used to say in my practice when in doubt mimic nature right now, I just say mimic nature don't wait to be in doubt. Exactly.

[00:17:52] Absolutely. So is there anything different so. Is it are any CBD products made [00:18:00] from Cannabis? And if so, do they molecular lease if the THC out or does it matter because this studies on cannabis derived CBD and their studies on hemp derive CBDs anything? Well, so again a lot of that has to do with Justice or what plants you have access to to make the products that you want to like Epi dialects the big one pharmaceutical drug that is out.

[00:18:24] It is cannabis derived. But again because hemp is cannabis all the CBD that is natural is. Yep, this cannabis drive just some comes from Hampton Sun comes from Cannabis that is more than 0.3 percent THC. And yes, they can filter out amounts of THC. The problem is again one of legality because even if you have two products, both of them have less than zero point zero percent THC if one of them came from.

[00:18:52] Hemp then it and the original plan had less than 0.3% ended it dry weight at the time of harvest that is legal federally [00:19:00] if that same product that has no THC whatsoever that you could measure came from hemp that had more than 0% 3tc at the time of harvest. It is illegal for the DEA interesting even though you're sitting it out even though you're getting the correct that's interest of the sort.

[00:19:15] The sourcing is everything. It's a dumb, you know distinction, but that's the dumb law. No, no, I don't I don't I don't think it's dumb and I'll tell you why I say that because if you're growing a plant the high in THC and Civic the THC out to sell a cat CBD product the cannabidiol product. What are you doing with that THC you're starting out basically with marijuana at that point in time so I can see why.

[00:19:43] They would punish that practice unless you are Washington State Oregon where where cannabis is legal for recreational use then I guess it doesn't matter because you can you're not crossing state lines, but but CBD is crossing state lines so I can see why that would be that way because you're doing something with that [00:20:00] THC.

[00:20:01] Yep, and who knows what you're doing to the other cannabinoids Senate when you're taking those out. I mean that's that's one of the things that really matters with with what they and I again we use the term CBD and a hemp oil sometimes interchangeably and we probably I need to stop doing that. I need to really, you know, make a difference when I'm talking about a full spectrum hemp oil, you know, again, all these other cannabinoids that are in there the CBC the content of a barrel, which is CBG CD 8e H CV all of these different ones can have.

[00:20:29] For an effects in the body and that's incredibly important because a lot of them will balance each other out. But when you start taking things out, you can start taking things out meaning to affect one. You don't know if you're going to affect others or not, unless you specifically check them and these companies are not going to spend the money to check on a hundred different minor tab a noise to see if the levels of those get affected interesting.

[00:20:51] So everybody talks about terpenes whenever people talk about hemp. We go. Well, they go. Well it contains this. Okay take a chance, but I never hear [00:21:00] anybody talk about the physiological benefits of terpenes. Can you tell us anything about terpenes? Absolutely mean the terpenes are absolutely essential any I use that word on purpose anybody who's into essential oils believes them understands them or you know have family that do they are basically terpene delivery vehicles.

[00:21:19] And so many of the terpenes are responsible for a lot of the effects that we look for in plants and in particular, they're responsible for some of the effects we have on the endocannabinoid system. So for example, like beta Mercy, Beta Mercy is a very calming terpene when it hits are receptors.

[00:21:37] It's active on a totally, you know, a big variety of different types of receptors. But when that gets in our body, that's really what we think is partly responsible for the couch lock phenomenon that we get from certain strains of marijuana. It's not the, you know, the just the THC content. It's the mersin and beta mersin is very high in all types of cannabis including hemp and other terpene beta carry awful and it's [00:22:00] what gives him that kind of.

[00:22:02] Bree smell beta carry off line is a straight cd2 Agonist. So the CB2 receptor which modifies our levels of inflammation any and black pepper is a good source of beta carry off on the copaiba plant is the tree in South America is a very good source of beta carry off one those two terpenes are huge for the net effects and any hemp oil or cannabis oil someone gets it can vary in the concentrations of those terpenes and you can take two to two plants to oils from the same string grown.

[00:22:32] Seasons and they could have different concentrations of those terpenes, but that's just the starters limonene which is an a Very a pretty activating one pinene which tends to be calming a little oh all which comes from lavender helps with sleep all of these terpenes and they have Synergy with the cannabinoids at the way they work on their receptors.

[00:22:49] So it's exciting to think about the amount of variety that we have but it's difficult because are letting your left brain really wants to know. Okay. Well this does this this this this this I start putting them together in a full-spectrum [00:23:00] thing. It's difficult to predict. Don't you're going to get.

[00:23:05] Shipping has changed recently. The post office is treating CBD based product differently. You have to not only remark that that's what's in the package, but you have to show certain licensing and also Source Origins now, huh? You know about yeah. Yeah, absolutely and in a way it's good news because it means that again so as you know, we were pretty involved in the at the legislative level here in Indiana and one of the things that we did is and our state legislature did was decided that we'd like to have some say so about the quality of products that are available in the state because of people put in junk in a bottle and call it CBD.

[00:23:42] So in our state you have to have a product with a QR code on the label and that QR code has to reference a document that tells. You third party testing for the amount of THC the amount of CBD and the provenance of the plant that that came from. So what we're seeing is not only state legislators and state governments, [00:24:00] but Regulatory Agencies coming up with similar guidelines to just help us get rid of a lot of these Bad actors that want to come out through who knows what in a bottle and call it CBD yet brilliant and you know what it legitimizes the product to it really does.

[00:24:14] Yes, it does. I want to take a quick commercial break when we come back. I want to start talking about. This recent study that showed liver damage. Yeah and taught. I want to get this this is important a lot of people going to read this and think. Oh see I knew it. But again the devil is in the details were talking with dr.

[00:24:31] J. Matthew Andre. His Clinic is in Bloomington, Indiana. It's called Andre Medical Services. I know a lot of people from the show have gone there. For their HRT and for other things if you want, you can find him at Andre Medical Services.com on the web stay tuned. We'll be right back. Welcome back to Super Yuma radio were talking with dr.

[00:24:54] Matthew Andre. We're talking about CBD. Everybody loves it. Everybody knows it everybody selling something. You [00:25:00] can't turn your head without seeing CBD somewhere so recently a study was published. about. CBD and hepatotoxicity what they basically did was Epi dialects, which is the drug that dr.

[00:25:14] Andrew mentioned but a second ago is FDA approved for treating some of the most severe cases of epilepsy epilepsy and seizure and it starts out at a fairly high dose. It's five milligrams twice a day to start out with and then once the child is assesses usually children. As far as tolerating that they go up to 10 milligrams twice a day.

[00:25:41] So 20 milligrams a day. And so. I don't have this study in front of me. I should have had it but I'm getting bad at doing this job. Obviously if the 40 but there was a recent study. That was that's going around the internet right now that shows that 20 milligrams [00:26:00] a day of CBD causes liver damage on day one and.

[00:26:06] You know this isn't surprising to me because when you look at how CBD interacts with the cytochrome p450 Cascade in the liver, I mean it I don't think anybody should have been surprised about this. Do you? No, I mean in a way I'm glad it's getting attention frankly because it allows us. You know, if you want to be an educator you need Avenues you need you need issues to come up where people get curious about it.

[00:26:33] Where were we myself that milligram dosage was per kilogram. I'm sorry. Yeah. Yeah 20 milligrams a day. For for a 220-pound human being is is 2 grams a day. So I want to I'm thinking oh my God, that's not much. No, I got it wrong. That's that dosage per kilogram. Go ahead. I'm sorry. Yes. Yes that know.

[00:26:55] That's that's right. But the point still still stands what you said Carl. I mean in a way I'm glad it's [00:27:00] coming up because it allows us to educate. I'm a little sad that this is the story and this is the article that's going to be getting so much attention because there is a natural pendulum effect.

[00:27:10] Everybody wants their. A part of my most of us and there's a part of many of us who especially if you're not selling a product who are waiting for the shoe to fall. You're just waiting for the the first negative thing to hear about CBD. So your ego can go aha. I told you it was bad and I guarantee you there's people listening on that, but the truth of the matter is matter Leon and you were an early adopter.

[00:27:34] But early on you were that guy to you were like, I'm just going to wait a little longer because I see everybody jumping on this and there's got to be more to it, right. Oh, yeah, I'm not saying it's wrong I'm saying it's just a part of us is sort of waiting for the you know, just like we wait for the star to find out that they did something, you know crazy behind the scenes.

[00:27:53] Yeah, it's that same motivation. But you know, what's unfortunate to me about this study is number one. I [00:28:00] can't eat other than you know, and I don't know their their motivations or anything like that, but I don't quite know why the study was done because they did this study in humans FDA approved.

[00:28:11] What the heck is a mouse that he going to tell you that is more valuable than what the human study that they had to do to get the drug approved already. Did you know I think part of their message was well, you know, we're going to we know that CBD and they even say it in their abstract, you know, the CBD is getting used for so many things.

[00:28:26] We really wanted to study about, you know safety, but then they study doses that are nowhere near what people use in the private sector that that people are taking. I mean, they're a hundred times higher than the ones people either could take her could have possibly afford to take. And the only reason why are you the only reason why this even happens is because this is a pharmaceutical drug made by a Greenwich biosciences.

[00:28:52] And because it's a pharmaceutical drug, they're using stupid high doses that cause problems [00:29:00] because every pharmaceutical drug causes some sort of unwanted effect so they can get away with it and really when you think about it. So this that I have added to study was a multicenter study. Thank you, Alicia for sending this done by universities in Little Rock Arkansas.

[00:29:18] Yeah. Yeah. I'm looking at the other ones University of Mississippi several universities from Arkansas to Mississippi to give them some credit and they did this study not because the public at large has using these high doses but because. Greenwich biosciences is delivering these high doses to children.

[00:29:40] They're going to wait a minute. What's the safety in such high doses? We 20 milligrams of kilogram. That's a whopping dose of CBD and and sure enough it compromised deliver. But is there any surprise that it? Did God know I mean they're starting dose was again in and just [00:30:00] as you pointed out a hundred a hundred kilo equivalent patient would be 60 150 milligrams of CBD price the product we use you would have to swallow.

[00:30:13] Let's see six bottles at once to the tune of about a hundred fifty bucks a piece. What you know their highest dose was ten times that 6160 1,000 milligrams, right? That's insane. Nobody could only can afford to take that much. So I don't know what the point of this you know really was and I know a little bit about Epi dialects because Ethan Russo who's a brilliant cannabinoid scientist is a pediatric neurologist in the Northwest the US and he worked with with GW for a fair bit and was you know helping bring this Marek and that's his field pediatric seizures.

[00:30:56] And so there they pointed out you know that yeah [00:31:00] these bigger doses. We don't know what happens but. To make a pharmaceutical that's what you have to do. You have to pull something out of nature patent it and then crank the dose up as high as you can because you don't get as many effects from an isolated.

[00:31:13] You do a full spectrum, right? It's just it's like trying to stop your car with your parking brake. Yeah, you can do it, but it doesn't mean it doesn't everything that we consume. That goes through the liver first past liver affect these particular cytochrome, you know to c-19 and Andre point. I mean, I mean even grapefruity Daven grapefruit affects these these, uh, these these pathways.

[00:31:40] The livers job is to filter stuff out of your blood. That's what it does and one of the ways it does so is it changes those molecules by using the cytochrome p450 enzymes and one of the interesting things that didn't make this article, of course is that they said in their own article below a total dose of 30 milligrams.

[00:31:56] They saw no drug interactions whatsoever. So [00:32:00] that's one of the problems of the cytochrome p450 system is since all other medicines are filtered by that same thing as well. If you use a CB D isolate and crank the. Up really high you are going to interfere with the the livers ability to get rid of those medicines and could potentially raise the blood levels to where they get toxic.

[00:32:17] Well, the issue is trying to apply those data to a full spectrum hemp oil is not scientific. Why because all those other cannabinoids have different effects those same cannabinoid some of them induce enzymes some of them inhibit enzymes. That's one of the reasons that we have not seen most of the full spectrum hemp oils do the same thing that CBD isolate does as high as I can.

[00:32:39] Attractions because the doses are much lower and plus you're using the whole plant, which doesn't have the potential to go Just One Direction badly. You're averaging out your pluses and minuses. What does Gujarat acyl transferase and what its appears that CBD affects this pathway as well. Is there anything that we know about that that we need to be aware of?

[00:32:57] So I don't remember specifically [00:33:00] what the you know what things go down that pathway in our limited. I'd be happy to have people emailing and remind me and tell me but you know, all of these are potentially things that if you're sort of logging the system, you can cause damage to the hepatocytes themselves because again, the concentration of things gets up too much one of the ways the liver delivers turning itself over all the time, you make an entirely new liver every was about six to eight months and.

[00:33:27] So you're always going to have some liver enzymes in your bloodstream as those cells are turning over no more. You make it work the more that happens. So having some a pedestal your injury from anything with a way to cranked up those is not surprising just like Tylenol, you know, that's a that's a big problem that we have.

[00:33:44] So again, that's one of the reasons we recommend higher absorbed lower doses. Is it you avoid a lot of these potentials of doing things like hurting the liver by using that and using something full spectrum because it doesn't take near as much so but you know again [00:34:00] we're what's going to happen is people going to see this and there's going to be kind of an outcry or we need more staid studies.

[00:34:04] Of course we do but we need studies with the actual products that people are taking not ones that are based on something, you know completely outrageous in terms of dose Google Ron acyl transferase appears to be the paddock pathway that sex hormones and steroids. And also right someone on yeah, so and so let me tell you a funny story.

[00:34:26] As you know, you know, I use HCG along with my testosterone blah blah. Well, I'm not gonna lie. I got on a bender and I was eating two huge Ruby Red Grapefruit. Sad a four weeks four weeks one night. I woke up with hot flushes. I woke up out of bed. I woke up out of bed. My skin felt hot. I had this anxiety sensation.

[00:34:54] I thought something's wrong with me. What the hell is going on? I started sweating and then all of [00:35:00] a sudden I realize I'm having a hot flash and I'm thinking to myself, okay? Estrogen progesterone. Yep. I'm thinking. What the hell and then I think about it. So I start that because I couldn't back this you get back to sleep.

[00:35:15] I get on the internet and I start looking at the pathways that grapefruit effects and it prompted me to do a show called grapefruit fruit or drug. If you take grapefruit in large enough amounts, it jacks up sex hormones it Jackson glucose it Jet and it really and because this plant is smart this plants goal is.

[00:35:42] To use humans to help procreate it get it seeds out there but not too much because it doesn't want you to eat too much. If you eat too much grapefruit your hormone levels get jacked up. You'll stop reproducing. I'm telling you that right now guys and girls. So [00:36:00] the reality is too much grapefruit does the same things as too much?

[00:36:06] He'll be well it does the same thing. Yep, that's absolutely true. You know anything the it's very important that we make this big mistake, you know as humans, especially in medicine, but we believe that once we've named something we understand. There's a whole ways more complexity to things than whatever we know at any given point in time always and yes, you can interfere with not just your hormones but other medications potentially as well and you know, one of the things that was reported as the potential of interacting with like blood thinners, and I'll and I even though I know that the doses were using for the data out there safe.

[00:36:42] I have all my patients if they're on say cumin. And they want to start a CBD I start with much lower doses than usual and I always have them just get their level check like in a week and and two years. I've not had to change a single Coumadin dose. That doesn't mean I won't down the road but that just means to say that yes, the principal is there [00:37:00] but in practice.

[00:37:01] It's you have to consider the other factors that are going on with people, you know, the ability to change some of our medicines, you know have a really narrow therapeutic index especially in something like epilepsy where somebody you know, you take enough and just a little bit more to be kind of toxic to you.

[00:37:17] So we check those levels of those medicines if I've got patients that are on those. It's not that I won't let him take CBD it's that I say, okay, but we're going to do a really low dose. We're going to check your level in like a week to see if it made a difference or not because that's where you know, the proof of the pudding is in the eating.

[00:37:30] These are all great. But that is the way to really know if it's affecting you or not. So you you are actually a correct me if I'm wrong because I should have asked you this before the interview, but I seem to remember that you are like the chief scientific officer for a company called Zyliss today, correct?

[00:37:45] That's right. I mean we're on I'm on the medical Advisory Board. Yep. Yep. They're desilva's our chief medical officer who's been in the nutraceutical world for years. And I've many patients have just devoted to his way of thinking and he [00:38:00] is. He's brilliant and but you know working with this company one of the things we're always trying to do is get them to let's work on getting with the universities and do the kind of research that is product specific so that we can know you know, it say Hey, you can point to this one and say it actually does this and here's where we know it's safe because when people are the problem is people take these very General Studies done on like an isolate and they want to apply them to the thing.

[00:38:22] They're getting at the farmers market and it's apples and oranges. You can't really do that. Well, yes and this is the big issue, right? So the industry is still so new that the standardization only focuses on the CBD portion. It doesn't focus on anything else. Do you see an evolution where they start to focus on more of the constituents that the present the balancing effect to the CBD?

[00:38:47] You know the FDA is they just had to be you know, ask for people to come and testify and they had a big head big hearings on CBD because you know, honestly, I think you know the FDA by and large [00:39:00] we can talk all day about how well they do or don't do the job but I think really their intent is to try to keep people safe.

[00:39:06] And so that's why they haven't approved the use of all this in all foods and Beverages and stuff like this and studies like this are going to really, you know, fuel those people who don't want that to happen. But what we need and what they are clamoring for is people to do studies on specific products so they can point to them and say well we don't know about CBD in general but we know this product did do this in these paper these patients and we're working hard to try to get that done at the University level where third parties are doing it so that we can actually get some data that people can point to and feel comfortable but it's a it's a wonderful place to be to be because it's exciting and all that.

[00:39:39] There are four things that I think are really important that people should think about any product or going to get. Round hemp oil and I'll be happy to share those if you want. I do I want to take all last commercial break and you can share them after that. But I want to point out something on the packaging of Epi Daleks.

[00:39:56] Guess what one of the [00:40:00] negative effects are and this is going to blow you away. Sleeping problems. Now you would think that you know because people take people take CBD to sleep. And so they figure I really want to sleep good tonight. So I'm gonna triple down on it. Yeah more you use the worst you sleep.

[00:40:15] So here's an interesting fact a couple nights in a row. I woke up at 3 a.m. And couldn't figure out why and I've been experimenting with some CBD products and one of them is eighty five milligrams and milliliter and I took three milliliters before bed and I am now and now I'm thinking well, maybe the residing sleep is because I just took two larger but dose.

[00:40:36] If I take the product that we use if I take three drops I sleep great Carl if I take six drops, I can't sleep at all. And is it this the equivalents? It's come full circle. Since you said this is HRT visit this difference between doing a physiological dose of testosterone versus doing two grams a week, which some idiots.

[00:40:55] Do me included and I mean, no really you you get side effects of 2 grams a week. You don't [00:41:00] sleep. Well, you get acne your blood pressure goes up. So really what we're talking about here is. This is of CBD and that needs to be established somehow absolutely and I guarantee you it's not 650 migs per kilogram.

[00:41:15] I let's do this. Then you can share the rest of that when we come back from break. Stay

[00:41:22] tuned. Welcome back. We're talking to dr. Matthew Andre about CBD and it's the devil's in the details like everything else. And more is not better like everything else Matthew. First of all, do you want to plug anything? You want to plug the organization that you work? Yeah, well, so again, I thank you for the mission.

[00:41:41] Our practice www dot Andre Medical Services.com. If you want to contact us we do have sources of what I think are very very good forms of CBD. We sell the number one selling and by SKU and then the in the world CBD is called Ultra cell and we love it because it [00:42:00] is. It is it has these four products are these four characteristics that I think are really important patients come in all the time and say hey, can I take this one?

[00:42:07] I said, well, I want you to take what you want. I said, here's the four things I think are really important and it's kind of hard to find products that meet all those but we'd be happy to talk with you about it and or help you find resources to find it if that's what you're looking for. Now I cut you off before the break and you were about to deep dig deeper into and now I forgot what you're going to do.

[00:42:26] Going to like this I think was going to tell you what those four things were. Yeah don't know tell us then that's it. That's it. Yes. Yes. That was it. That was it. Yeah. Yeah, it's cool. So so again patients come and ask if they will dock, you know, I want to get a hemp oil and maybe I've got one and it's cheaper than yours.

[00:42:40] But can I take this one one thing that's really important is I do think you want to get something that is organic. And that doesn't mean just there were no pesticides put on it. One reason that's really important is that cannabis that it actually comes from a similar family plants as Nettles and their what.

[00:42:57] All bio accumulators, they're really [00:43:00] really efficient at pulling stuff out of the dirt. I mean did you know the Taproot on a cannabis plant can be 16 feet long? It's huge. And then the secondary Roots can be miles and miles long. So whatever is in that. Third is going to end up in your plant. And if you squeeze it with CO2 or butane or whatever else you do.

[00:43:17] It's going to end up in your extract and most companies do not even want to test their own to know what's in it because they don't want to find out something. They don't want to know and then not be able to sell it. So if you if it's not grown on if it's gone soil its head like Roundup in the last few years.

[00:43:32] You don't want it and how are you going to know? You're not in there's probably not going to be tested for so I prefer things that were that sourcing is known to be organic. That's the only. Do it safely. They use him to clean up contaminated River beds in Asia where they like had a power plants go bad stuff like that.

[00:43:50] They grow hemp by the river to clean the dirt and trees and then they are happy to sell that waste hemp to companies in the US to squeeze and make extracts [00:44:00] from and you know, they don't care if we're hurting our health and that company that you're talking about doesn't necessarily either. So if they're not studying it doing certificates of analysis third-party testing to see what's in their plant.

[00:44:11] In recommend taking it second thing besides organic is it needs to be full spectrum a CBD isolate is taking that kind of crazy notion of pulling something straight out of nature cranking the dose up as high as you can and a forgetting the what the other parts of that plant were there for that's what you evolve to was the whole plant.

[00:44:30] Not just the isolate plus you have to if you have to take these huge doses. That's where you're going to start getting things like hepatocellular injury. That's where you're going to start getting other side effects GI issues and so forth here. On a near as much with a full-spectrum oil and you get all those other benefits besides what just CBD can do CBD can raise your eye pressure full spectrum hemp oil doesn't tend to because it's got CBG in it as well for example, so that's the second thing full-spectrum.

[00:44:56] The third thing is you I prefer products that are lower [00:45:00] dose High absorption, but you can get any of those oils. You just have to know what you're absorbing. You have to have some study on it in my opinion as saying what is the absorption of this product? If you're not absorbing it number one, you're going to waste 90% of whatever you just spent all that money on.

[00:45:16] Number two. You can't predict exactly how much you're actually going to get into your cells of what you're taking and then number three if you calculate per the milligram dose that you're actually getting into your body can be much more cost effective to take one. That's highly absorbed. And then the fourth thing is you got to pay attention to your THC.

[00:45:36] Now as you know, Carl, I'm I do think THC has some very significant potential use in a lot of. Click open ditions. The issue is depending where you live and even if it not depending on where you have your employment all of those things around THC totally matters. So even if you're in a state where you can that doesn't mean your employer's okay with it the state the federal and state governments typically allow you to have up to 0.3 percent THC in [00:46:00] your CBD or hemp oil.

[00:46:02] However, I've seen I get I get a letter a request about once a month for usually from people who aren't even my patients, but they took some CBD oil they know I'm interested in the. Ask me if I'll write a letter so they can keep their job and I'm like, no, I'm not mad at you because you took something that has THC in it you knew it and then it'll show up.

[00:46:21] So I prefer products that have less than zero point zero percent THC now because I think THC is a bad actor because I don't want you tested positive and losing your job or losing your physician. They've ability to write you other medications or putting you in a legal battle custody issue something like that.

[00:46:37] So you got to know the THC content I prefer, you know again, Better in the current environment were in it's got to be absorbable. It needs to be full spectrum and it needs to be organic. So zero point zero. Percent would so 0.03 would fall into that category right isn't isn't that what is that?

[00:46:56] What is the minimum THC that they said that the maximum to [00:47:00] be legal 0.3% So 3 out of 3 over 10 percent also really right 2003 would be hot if it's 0.09. You're happy as long as it's yeah below zero point zero. Okay. That's what I look for for any product. I want somebody to take because not because it's still impossible.

[00:47:18] Still a few parts per million that are there of THC but your chance of testing positive is much less than it is with most of the products that are out there on a shelf. And here's the other thing Carl most most companies want as much THC as they can get away with because they think that that helps their sales and they're using that little bit of THC to get it done which is crazy because there's not enough there with all that CBD countering it to do anything specific, you know significant.

[00:47:40] All it's going to do is make you test positive. So so there are some people out there who claim that that small amount of THC. 0.3 0.2 0.0 8 that actually has a role in analgesia. Are you saying that you don't need that the THC [00:48:00] at all TBD displaces THC from the CB1 receptor. So if you've got a high CBD in a low THC, it's not on the world.

[00:48:07] You were THC gonna it's be encountered by like crazy. It's not getting it at all. You're right. Yeah. Interesting interesting. Yeah, we we could come back and talk just about the the the the biomechanics the biodynamics and the receptor activities of these because it's fascinating. Okay, not really working it Applebee's I'll send you some dates.

[00:48:26] I'm going to be traveling this week and next week is fought in July. So the week after we'll have you back on and we'll talk about the actual mechanics of of The receptors. Well, it does CBD. Share like I know the Ville annoyed receptor is responsible for some analgesic effects. Does the CD receptor also find its ability to fit into other receptors besides just the cannabinoid.

[00:48:55] Absolutely. So there are about at least 10 different known [00:49:00] receptor populations. The vanilla add channels just like you mentioned Alpha glycine receptors serotonin 3A receptors as well as the CB1 receptor itself where CBD is active and all of those can converse and pain the one of the basic ways this helps with pain.

[00:49:14] This is one thing I leave people with we'll talk more later, but. There was a an article in USA Today a couple months ago the lady who had an enzyme deficiency genetically called Phi fatty acid amide hydrolase. She didn't have this enzyme father's job is to break down your inand amide. CBD does the same thing, it blocks fall and races and and amide and that's a major reason it helps with pain with anxiety and it's because of raising that level of an atomized CB1 gets a good level of action.

[00:49:43] Whereas if you're deficient in an animai, there we go HRT again. Then you can't control your pain levels or anxiety. Well, very very interesting Matt. Thanks for being here today and we'll get this other show noted a few weeks. Okay. All right, my brother, thank you. And that's it for today. I hopefully you [00:50:00] received a wealth of great information.

[00:50:02] You can learn more by going to dr. Andrews website Andre Medical Services.com. He's in Bloomington, Indiana. If you're within driving distance, he's a great option and that starts the week. Hopefully you got something good from it. We got the shows the rest of this week. Hope you can tune in live and we'll see you then.

[00:50:21] Thanks for listening [00:51:00]