[00:00:00] This will definitely be a Secrets Revealed and myths dispelled episode today because we're talking about something that really affects about 80% of the population at some point in time will have a lower back pain problem and many of them many of them go on to experience this in a chronic capacity.

[00:00:58] In fact, there was a study. Done in [00:01:00] 1990.  ranking the most burdensome conditions in the u.s. In terms of mortality and poor health back then or back pain was number 6 in 2010. They reviewed all this again and they said lower back pain is now number three second. I'm sorry Third only to ischemic heart disease and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease.

[00:01:27] That's a. Fishing that means that most people in the population have debilitating back pain. My guest today is an old friend and a friend of the show. Dr. Craig Banks. How you doing? Dr. Back to doing doing great Carol, how are you good, and I especially wanted to have you on about this and I'll tell you why because you work with some of the most extreme athletes in the world some of the strongest athletes in the world some of and and in sports that absolutely.

[00:01:59] The [00:02:00] lower back with heavy heavy weight. You yourself are an athlete. So, you know, it's one thing to work with athletes. It's another thing to also be an athlete and an experience these things but then again you also have a cross-section of regular people that you work with. So you must be able to connect the dots and go this is not exclusively from this because this group wouldn't experience if it was so since they're both groups are experiencing this.

[00:02:26] It's got to be something else. What is that? True over your career? You started to connect more dots about lower back pain. Oh for sure. I've been fortunate enough to work with like you said many athletes, but there are some some basic underlying things that even the top conditioned athletes sometimes forget about and in the right circumstance that he can have just as much pain as you know, Joe construction worker who's.

[00:02:56] Bending at the waist all day. So let's talk about [00:03:00] one of those that we all know and love and that is the The Fearless Ronnie Coleman a guy who front squatted like 700 pounds for reps and use the deadlift 800 pounds two weeks out from the Olympia when he was completely depleted and and starving himself and today he because of Lumbar I think it was lumbar back problems and like eight surgeries.

[00:03:25] He's. The cripple now today, right? Yeah. It's he's such a good guy and he's such a wonderful human being and to see him moving the way that he moves now, which is very minimally. It's a shame but you know, he's had a couple different things. He's had multiple hip surgeries as well. So. And some cases, you know, the genetics do play a role and just as well as his body was able to develop muscle genetically like no one else out [00:04:00] there.

[00:04:00] He can also grow bone in a case like no one else out there. So when it comes to arthritis, I always try to explain to people arthritis is three separate components in my mind. Number one, you have to have a degenerative component and that's. Your bone spurs your bone growth. Number two is going to be an inflammatory component then go and then third maybe most importantly is how that joint moves.

[00:04:28] So if you don't have all three to me, that's not our that's not arthritis. I can take a picture of somebody who's got the worst spine and it looks horrible and I asked him how much pain they're in and they say none why because they don't have the inflammation and they don't have the abnormal movement.

[00:04:44] So, I don't know. Is take too much stock in exactly what I see on film. It's just one piece of the puzzle, you know, it's interesting because in the past three years a handful of well-done [00:05:00] Studies have shown that osteoarthritis, like it's big brother rheumatoid arthritis both find their Origins and autoimmune disorders that attack chondrocytes, and we now know and so we did.

[00:05:16] Send information whenever whenever we talk about information, we talk about the immune system people need to keep I repeat this over and over again, but I want people to understand this.  Inflammation is the army of the immune system. And when the Army is attacking its own things or people that it's supposed to protect.

[00:05:36] This is an autoimmune disorder and we now know osteoarthritis in and of itself is autoimmune in nature because we see, you know, Very heavy people and so somebody will say well, it's mechanical loading of the spine. That's why their knees and hips where why are they have arthritis in their hands their body fat has nothing to do with that.

[00:05:57] It's because there is whole scale [00:06:00] attack on the joints and the things that make up the joints. So you're right that the inflammatory process is actually kind of like the glue that makes it all go wrong sure. And of course, we have a healthy need for certain amounts of. Nation it's part of your body's natural protective ability to heal from an injury.

[00:06:21] And yes, there is some case to say okay, you know, if somebody's overweight are their knees going to experience more inflammation than somebody who's not absolutely but you're correct in saying that it wants to become so widespread and so systemic. Now we're actually dealing with something else entirely.

[00:06:41] Is it always it? Always is it always the lumbar spine that's responsible for the lower back pain, especially the kind that radiates into the glutes and down the the IT bands and into the legs.  The low back and the pelvis for for the most part now, of course, there are [00:07:00] situations where you can have other types of pressures on a spinal cord up higher that can.

[00:07:07] Give you give you pain and pressure in the low back and potentially in the extremities. But for the most part what we're talking about mechanical low back pain mechanical sciatica and so forth that's going to be predominantly low back and pelvis. Yes, and and interestingly enough my x-rays show that the.

[00:07:27] The two vertebrae that go from the lumbar into the pelvis. Those are the SS s 1 S 2. Is that right? L5 S1? Probably okay. One of them is shaped like a triangle and mine instead of like a nice spool if you will. It's like it's one side is shorter than the other so it has like a triangular look to it.

[00:07:49] Yep, and that's that's called a transition vertebrae and it's actually very common and I see that. Quite frequently, but what it does is it changes [00:08:00] the movement pattern so you cannot move the same on the right as you do on the left interesting that creates an imbalance. Our body is not necessarily built for imbalances.

[00:08:11] If it's there, we'll find a way to work around it. But are we doing it as effectively as we possibly can so sometimes you'll have the L5 bone and it will have the arm of it sort of looks like it's part of the tailbone and then. The side it looks normal and then you could have the other way around where you have your L5 bone and it's actually merged onto the tailbone.

[00:08:33] So now you have a disc your first movable bone movable joint. The disc is up higher and it's kind of out of that pelvic protective area and then that can create more pressure when you go to move or Flex at the. At the back which I always tell people we really don't want to flex with the back. We want to be flexing at the hips.

[00:08:54] But that repetitive motion can create a problem. There is the [00:09:00] reason that we all have so much back problems today lower back problems because we sit so much more. We sit in properly and what I mean by that is most of us don't sit on our legs. And our the lowest part are what is called the ischial tuberosity.

[00:09:17] It's like the bottom part of the the pelvis. We don't sit there. We sit with our sacrum tucked under us in a nice cushy recliner or a bucketed car seat and we sit there all day or we just plop our but down we don't take the time to kind of rotate that pelvis back and. Behind you so that you're sitting more on the legs essentially your spine.

[00:09:40] If you're sitting correctly your spine shouldn't look that much different sitting versus standing but in 90% of people it does I find that office chairs that have arms armrests make me sit differently because I what I do is I plant my elbows. I pull my [00:10:00] traps and my scapula down and then I tuck my but like you're saying I kind of tilt It Forward the lower portion of my pelvis tilts forward and the upper portion of tilts back and I'm almost sitting on my pelvis instead of the balls of my butt, right.

[00:10:14] And it's just a matter of resetting it. So if I caught you in that position and I said straighten up you actually have to stand up and reset and here's why if I said to do that and you just shift it into what you felt was a better posture the muscles you just used to do that are what are called prime mover.

[00:10:34] They're meant for the sprinting of the world. They're not the marathon runners. Yeah, you need to engage the stabilizers. So by kind of standing up Andre sitting properly. Now, you're engaging the stabilizers. Those are meant for Marathon running. They're meant for the Long Haul. So you'll fatigue right back in a matter of a minute.

[00:10:53] If you don't reset the actual sitting position, do you think those half bosu ball desk chairs [00:11:00] or even the. Ergonomic chairs where you kind of lean on your legs as opposed to sitting back on your but you think they have any value in the office in the workforce. I do I like the ones on the legs and I like the balls.

[00:11:13] It's just you have to it can still be used wrong on both Kion both cases. I think that if you can have your knees below your hips that's ideal and you can do that on both of those types of chairs. Do you think chronic pde5 Inhibitors contribute something to lower back problems? I had someone tell me once their theory that since the pelvis is so close to the penis and the there is a high activity of these pde5 Inhibitors in that region and the entire region and that contributes to problems with the lower spine.

[00:11:57] Not a doctor but he's a pretty intelligent guy. You [00:12:00] think that has anything to do with anything? Well, of course are going to be vasodilators. So yeah, you would think would be better for you. Right? Well, maybe yes, maybe no if you're already inflammatory, it's going to bring more blood flow to the area.

[00:12:17] And if you're somewhat osteoarthritic or any other rheumatoid or anything like that, it could potentially accelerate the process. I really have. Into that though, I'd be lying. If I said that I did I mean it's an interesting connection. I should probably look into it a bit. Yeah, because you know, we're now giving men and women pde5 inhibitors for different reasons than men are taking low dose long-acting pde5 Inhibitors now for a prostate health and even some anti-aging.

[00:12:50] Papers now showing that there's some benefits to it for the brain and I you know, I thought to think about when you start taking something every day now now you're really kind of changing the [00:13:00] landscape of the body, right? Right and who knows what the long-term studies are going to get a show him.

[00:13:05] Yeah sit there and I could probably make a case for a reason why it would help low back pain and make a case why I would hurt ya until somebody does the research. We're just we're just kind of guessing that. Exactly. So is lower back pain a primary cause for people to come to see you. Well, since I'm a sports chiropractor I get probably just as many shoulders ankles knees okay in my practice, but I mean, I'm still.

[00:13:35] If you look up chiropractor, I'm still one of those people that you're going to find on Google. So what do most people out there think of when it comes to low back pain and they think of Chiropractic or vice versa, but my cross section of population. I still have a pretty good mix. But yeah, somebody wasn't directly referred to me if they were just kind of Google searching and found me.

[00:13:58] There's a good chance that they were coming [00:14:00] for low back pain. So I did a Google search over the past five years. Is for lumbar spine back pain?  And it's very consistent. The number of people it's a very very high Searcher. I mean people search this a lot and it's and we know why the interesting thing about it when you look at the five year when he.

[00:14:24] The week of Christmas December 21st through the 27th. There is a dramatic drop in searches. Now, this is just searches. This is not necessarily visits, but there's a dramatic drop in searches that week which tells me it's ironic if you look at this, it's like I kept looking at him. Wow, those all of those drops are pretty equidistant from each other when I Mouse over them, it was like December December 27th through 31st.

[00:14:52] December 25th through 34 and I'm like, what is this mean does this just mean that people just don't give a damn about their back problems with over [00:15:00] Christmas or is it because they're not working over Christmas a long holiday and they haven't been sitting in their desk. So that back isn't bothering them.

[00:15:07] I was trying to like put that together. What about what do you think and ideas? So I'm sure you've done meditation at numerous points in your life and I'm part of the meditations that I do they all involve what's called a body scan and they'll have. Can your foot and then scan your ankle on your knees and whatever and work your way up and what's funny is you can notice that if you want to feel the pulse in your big toe.

[00:15:32] You can feel the pulse in your big toe and why it's because you're focusing on it. We're not focusing on paying that week between Christmas and New Year's. So that is it. It calms it down and there's always always in this does not mean that the pain is in your brain, but there will always be a psychosomatic component to to pain especially.

[00:15:52] Chronic pain and back pain. Like you said typically becomes a chronicity issue for many people. [00:16:00] So another thing that I've noticed effects pain dramatically over the past. Well, since I started injuring myself a lot, let's say the past five or six years. Is Sleep Quality the better? I sleep the the less sensitive.

[00:16:14] I am to pain the worse. I sleep my pain threshold drops completely and I feel my pain worse. You notice that in your practice as well. Absolutely and that's just goes to the nervous system. That's the power of the nervous system. If you're not getting enough sleep your nervous system is a bit more on edge.

[00:16:34] It's a bit more sensitive to. Things as far as pain and discomfort even irritability anything that's going to excite the nervous system is going to amp up pain. So one of the things we always uses caffeine caffeine is going to actually increase your pain thresholds. So you'll or decrease your pain threshold and increase your pain sensitivity [00:17:00] real so sleep is going to be the same type of situation.

[00:17:02] It's going to calm the nervous system down and then. Make that threshold a little bit higher for you to experience discomfort interesting quick. The reality is pain is all in your brain, right? It's not in the periphery where you feel you think you feel it. It's Century portion of your brain.

[00:17:17] That's telling you he'll it. Yeah, it really did. Everything's going to be experienced at the brain level. So there's there's no pain receptor. That doesn't have to reach the brain for you to feel. So a lot of people will say and this is this is something that you post a I had I posted does anybody have lumbar spine problems and you saw it there was a pylon like everybody everybody had lumbar spine problems and someone commented about.

[00:17:45] Compression and you made a comment to the effect of it's not always compression. A lot of people think that the lumbar spine problem is from compression, but it's not you're saying huh? Well, I think what I meant [00:18:00] was that that's not a diagnosis. I do believe that there's definitely one of the most common things that walk-in is what's called a facet syndrome and it's where the back parts of the.

[00:18:14] The bones whether it be the tailbone in the L5 or any level up the parts that actually truly Glide are called the Zach Apophis he'll joints but we call them Z joints or facets so over time if you were in a bit of an arched position, which is common with somebody who has deconditioned rectus abdominus and or overactive lumbar extensors, those things will pinch together and the rub and of course, they rub the create inflammation one.

[00:18:44] Information happens they will also thicken and become more and more sensitive because that thickening or it's called facet arthrosis that thickening will Encompass the nerves making them more and more sensitive. So it's not [00:19:00] really just a downward compression at that sets. Its really a compression with extension and you know compression is just such a.

[00:19:11] It's such a vague term whether you're talking about the disks the facets the entire bio mechanical structure of the spine. It's just too vague. And I think what I was getting at was that that's not a real diagnosis. You got to dig deeper than that. Okay. So what so give me the panoply of things that happen to the lumbar spine or the lower back over time?

[00:19:40] I'm that contribute to chronic pain.  So we already talked about sitting so I won't revisit that but that is a big one bending if we want to bend we need to be bending at the hips. We don't want to encourage a lot of flexion at the lumbar spine and I don't care if you're picking up [00:20:00] 600 pound deadlift or if you're just reaching down to tie your shoes.

[00:20:04] In fact, it's the latter that usually gives us more problems. And the reason is this if I know I'm going to deadlift 600. I'm going to stabilize everything. I'm going to Locked In. I'm going to look at my foot position. I'm going to check my chest. I'm going to dip my butt and I'm going to grab on and I'm going to pull as hard as I can.

[00:20:20] I just drop something on the floor. Let me draw My Pan and I yeah, you're going to be Cavalier welcoming Quist, right? Yeah, then then that's when you get the injury. It's just a moment of instability. So typically we have one injury and it might be something small and it might be something you don't even notice happens that it was that small but then all of a sudden our body has to adapt when it adapts because we have so many movable joints in the spine and pelvis.

[00:20:48] It's job is to stabilize. The one region that is not that is aggravated a little bit and then your body will keep on going. So it will oh, I can't move it all [00:21:00] 5S one. All right, let me move at L4 L5, right move it l3l to let me move more at the hips or the knee or whatever you're going to adapt because that's what the body does.

[00:21:09] But in the meantime, if you never restore that normal motion at L5 S1 where the initial pain was that disc is going to degenerate. It's going to be inflamed for at least a period of time while it's initially aggravated and it's going to degenerate because discs don't get fluid the big blood supply.

[00:21:27] They have to kind of at least move up and down a bit, you know, we don't want excessive motion, but we need some because they get their fluid and nutrients by something called invitation and it's like. A sponge in water, right? Okay. So if it's not moving it will dehydrate it and it will shrink down now.

[00:21:44] We have the dreaded degenerative conditions that start to happen. Maybe that disc gets weak on one side versus the other maybe a bulges out. Maybe it herniates the outer layer. I use the jelly doughnut kind of right analogy all the time. I always got that hole where the jelly squirt [00:22:00] now when I filled it up for the body is still going to try to heal that.

[00:22:03] Even no matter what it's always going to try to heal that and it may try to grow some bone around. Well, if that bone grows towards the nerves not only do you have what we call stenosis or narrowing you may have an airing in both the spinal canal or another part that's called the the foramina and that's the space on the side where the nerve actually passes out and then goes down the lake.

[00:22:24] So a lot of different options. It's so complicated and that's why I get a little leery when I see. Trainers or unqualified people trying to assess and diagnose back pain. It's very dangerous. Well, isn't it? Well, since you said trainers, right, you know, they're a good trainers in their bad trainers just like they're good butchers and there's bad butchers, of course and I see trainers do things with their clients that always makes me think it's not a good idea.

[00:22:58] So I'm going to ask you. [00:23:00] I think you were the one who actually taught me this to be honest with you. I think on a previous show you taught me that the disk is like only 50% is strong if you're turning to the left or to the right because of the striations of. Of collagen in the the outer membrane that makes the disc isn't that right?

[00:23:22] Yeah, they're called the annular fibers in the kind of have a cross hatching. Yes heard him. Yes. Yes, if you're facing forward, you got a hundred percent of their strength, but if you keep your legs planted where they are and you just turn it the hips to the left. They're actually in a in a weakened position at that point and.

[00:23:40] After I learned that I always thought to myself when I see people picking up a 45-pound plate or a medicine ball and they stand there and they just rotate all the way to the right and all the way to the left. I think why even do that, aren't you potentially aggravating? A disc injury at that [00:24:00] point in time.

[00:24:00] Yeah, you really are. I mean if you're going to do something that you should be going extremely slow. You should be if you're going to do it standing then some of the motion should also be coming out of your hips and your knees and it should be very slow very very controlled. What scares me is when you'll see people and they'll go into a flexed abdominal sit up type of position and then go back and for all I've seen them down your flexed and you're sitting there.

[00:24:27] Ball the wood that's working against you in gravity and it's going back and forth and you're going as rapid as you can you think you're yeah, you're tightening your rectus, but you're damaging the heck out of your spine. Now, I've seen people do that sit up into a sit-up position and then rotate from left to right while holding a ball.

[00:24:44] I've seen them do it. Yeah, I see it every day and I don't know some people just don't want to be told and I'm a big guy. I mean, I'm I'm a bodybuilder. I'm not the smallest person you would think that they would take advice for me. Even if it's unsolicited sometimes pretty well, but I've [00:25:00] sometimes I approach people and other times I can tell this is just going to be a waste of my breath.

[00:25:03] Yeah, you walk up to them and you go let's go. Hey, I hope you take this in the spirit that it's meant and they look at you and they start to frown already and you go you're really rocking it. You should do those faster. F you go ahead hurt yourself get it over with mouth. Yeah, here's my card. So, okay.

[00:25:21] So that's good. I just want to throw that in there because it's an interesting question. So can can you actually resolve like like stenosis that's bone. You can any aren't going to reverse that. Once that happens. You're probably stuck with that. Right? Well again, it goes back to what I was saying about the the arthritis it if you have a.

[00:25:45] Closest to a level that you just have no space and I mean no space left in there for the nerve than realistically you're looking at a surgery I've probably sent for I don't know 16 years no less [00:26:00] than two or three thousand surgery. So I'm not against surgery at all. I know it's some people think all these chiropractors are going to try to delay proper Medical Care.

[00:26:08] Absolutely not when somebody needs the surgery. I'm a hundred percent willing and able to send them and I do. There are cases where it's I look at somebody and say this isn't for me and you're just going to have to go other cases in most cases are going to be somewhere in between where it's worth an attempt at some conservative care because if you can get that area moving and can get that patient out of their current symptoms, then that process of increasing the bone spur causing the stenosis will slow down or stop.

[00:26:43] Interesting. I look I want to take a break. I've got lots of questions. I want to talk to her about flossing the spine and all these cool things that I hear people talk about when they talk about back problems and whether any of them are risky or is that it's and then I want to know what you think people should be looking at when they have lower [00:27:00] back problems.

[00:27:00] If you live near Ohio Pinnacle Chiropractic the website is Pinnacle Cairo chir oh.com. Is the place to go and also little bit later in the show going to talk about something that dr. Banks created many many years ago and it's still around. It's called kinetic cream and it's wonderful and I know people all over the country.

[00:27:20] I mean all over the world that purchased it back in the day when we used to advertise it on the show. So we'll talk about that more stay tuned. We'll be right back. Welcome back, you know, I hate doing shows like this and you know, why because dr. Banks is in Ohio and a lot of my listeners around the country and it's hard for them to be able to and what little I want to talk.

[00:27:38] How to find a good chiropractor a little bit later in the show. But anyway, I've had lumbar spine problems and dr. William seeds when I told my hamstrings deadlifting I left hamstring. I taught three attachments. It's strong as hell now. I mean, it's like one of those rodents with a snap but they they snip a muscle and then the other ones take over and and grow back, [00:28:00] but I've heard so many different remedies for lower spine problems.

[00:28:06] Are you familiar with something called? Spinal flossing. Yes, explain it. So the theory is.  that first off nerves hate tension. Okay. So if we took our. Nose and put it all the way to our toes and we're not somebody who can do that type of stuff. We're maximally tensioning our nervous system. So our brain coming all the way down to the little nerves in our toes they're all connected.

[00:28:38] So we're under a maximum amount of tension for the nerves in that situation. So, Flossing technique what it does. Is it tensions one side at a time. So let's say I wanted to floss the spinal cord down my right leg while what I might do is I might start and I might go into a full [00:29:00] extension look up to the ceiling that's going to kind of tension things down up at the top.

[00:29:05] And down at the blower and then I'm going to flex and I'm going to kick that leg up. So I'm going to basically I'm just tugging at One Direction tugging at the other direction never putting maximum tension on the nerve but kind of gliding it and flossing it. Does it really Glide. Is it really moving through the spine like that?

[00:29:25] Well, you know, I mean a little bit. And were you come up? What's up my millimeters here, right? Yeah it is but the thing is it only takes one little area to have tension on a nerve and then what happens is that nerve actually swells, so people don't realize the nerve itself can swell so. It's swollen if that swollen part is sitting right at the spot that's putting the pressure on it if we can maybe move it.

[00:29:50] Yeah. Yeah meters now. I'm suddenly not have so much pressure But ultimately if there's anything that's sticking or adhesion adhering to the nerve. It's going to create additional [00:30:00] tension. So if it's really just about busting. Adhesion, so just kind of breaking those up but it does help teach a couple of different techniques to my patients all the time.

[00:30:09] Okay. So what about the fact that when so I got to go back and tell a little story. So everybody knows that I've been a huge fan of the inversion table for probably close to 20 years now and. I like to hang completely upside down on my inversion table and I've been able to maintain that you know it that's something that you just don't decide to do it one day.

[00:30:34] I've been doing it for decades. And so and I've just maintained it I would hang upside down in my inversion table for five times a week and when I would get upside down I can actually hear the vertebrae you making that little pop noise as the facet and the disc kind of separate by a. Either or whatever and I could I could actually focus and and [00:31:00] tilt my hips and kind of milk my spine if you will and get that lumbar area to pop pop pop pop pop and I would jump off of my inversion.

[00:31:11] And literally feel like I could Sprint because of that momentary release of pressure and probably some flossing going onto when you think about it, you know, maybe maybe reverse flossing maybe the maybe the cord stayed still but the bones moved, you know what I mean, but I haven't done that for a year.

[00:31:32] The cost of multiple foot surgeries I couldn't hang upside down. So the other a couple weeks ago. I decided I'm going to start getting back in my inversion table and I knew not to try to hang upside down but I got pretty close. You know, I got pretty close to upside down maybe 20 degrees 30 degrees off of being completely inverted and I heard some pops, but one of the pops kind of made me feel a little pain in the top of my right.

[00:32:01] [00:32:00] Muscle my glutes like I was like, what's that? Okay, so I get out and you know, I got a I got it when I get out of my inversion table, I pull myself up right and then I gotta bend and reach down and unlock my feet and holy crap that hurt and then when I got out I couldn't straighten up. I was like, oh crap.

[00:32:21] What did I do? Obviously, I went too fast too soon so in I'm envisioning. That since I have an inverted these vertebrae have really gotten snug and by me doing that. I basically probably irritated the nerves that have found a new place. I'm like trying to I'm the by pulling those vertebrae slightly apart by millimeters.

[00:32:45] I've irritated those nerves and it took a good five days for that. Pain to go away. Is that what I did by doing that did I irritate the nerves back down there? Because they are not used to being yank like that. Well, you [00:33:00] definitely irritated something whether it had been the nerves or the joint itself.

[00:33:03] So let me back step. Which foot did you have surgery? Left foot. Okay, that sounds just about right. So what do you do when you are working back from a an injury, you're going to put more pressure on the opposing side? Yeah, so you're right SI has been taking more of your body weight more of your pressure because you were favoring that left dude, and don't forget.

[00:33:24] I wore a boot a walking boot for a total of six months out of the year. So I was walking crooked for six months out of the year. Yeah, so that shifted you so you're right SI has been. You're right. Sacroiliac joint has been doing the load for a while and it's probably been pretty compressed which is why you irritated on that side.

[00:33:48] So yeah that it probably did open up but it just was such a big release that it was it was just too much and you know, what something that's okay because it still needs to get there [00:34:00] man. It's still got to open up. Yes. And I'm a huge proponent of this I talk about this whether it's hormones, whether it's anything you sometimes the pain means you're on the right path, you know what I mean?

[00:34:14] So you kind of got to accept the fact that there's going to be some pain, you know, there's did these different levels of pain like I wouldn't do something to go. Oh, that didn't feel good. I was able to straighten out I was able to walk and everything was fine. But I had this pain which was obviously sciatic in nature down the right because I felt it in my IT band a little bit up high.

[00:34:35] I felt it in the hole right glute. And so I thought aha, you know II need to gently stuck gum or just so I I raised it up. I'm not going that aggressive right now and I'm laying in it and it's starting to feel good again. But yeah, I think that. Inversion is a good thing. But you're saying not to go completely inverted.

[00:34:56] Anyway, right well in your case, you know [00:35:00] inversion is wonderful and I have a table at home myself. I do really like it, but it's nonspecific. Okay, so if you came into my office, I might have been able to say okay, you're right SI is really out of position and we're going to work to open that up first before you do the inversion.

[00:35:16] So, you know, maybe an adjustment or two prior to if we're turning that to that might have been beneficial. I don't usually recommend full inversion for my patients and in part. It's because.  again, I have a different cross section. Patience. So if you have been doing it for a long time, it's probably not a big deal.

[00:35:41] But like you said, I think we're talking a little earlier. You have to totally relax your stomach. Make sure that your lumbar spine muscles. Your Rector spinal muscles are not going to be engaged most people when they go to full inversion. Directors actually take over a bit. Yeah, and they [00:36:00] tighten up the Titan.

[00:36:01] So then you can kind of in although you're creating space there. You're still.  Enforcing a muscle pattern a muscle firing pattern that can be somewhat negative for the spine as a whole if you go even just a little bit shy of that. It's sometimes easier because your back stays against the pad to then relax that and then the pad is actually.

[00:36:26] Pushing to truly decompress that lumbar spine. Now one of the things I discovered was that bending relieved the pressure and the pain went away for a while like so so I would stand with my feet almost shoulder width apart and I would just bend gently and I would exhale and I would focus on relaxing the glutes and.

[00:36:51] The hamstrings and the lower back and I could feel the pain going away as I sunk. Let my body sink down [00:37:00] where my hands were on the floor, you know, like they teach you when you're a kid to bend over and touch the floor and I would stay like that for maybe 30 40 seconds. I would write myself and I know the pain would be completely gone.

[00:37:13] Is that because is that actually a decompression when you bend like that? Well, you were decompressing the the sacroiliac joint for sure. And I think that that's probably what you would aggravated. So the nerve discomfort the stuff in the leg was probably more from the spasm as opposed to a true nerve tension.

[00:37:32] So if it were nerve tension, you flexing forward would not have been feeling good. What if I would have actually made it would have been way way way worse. But if it was jammed up and irritated and aggravated at that sacroiliac. When you Flex forward, it does unload that joint and then you were just able to kind of calm that spasm associated with it down.

[00:37:54] And then you were able to come back up and feel better. So yeah probably wasn't a true [00:38:00] neurological tension from the spinal cord itself more just aggravation and pressure due to the spasm in the glutes if I take my right hand and make a fist and put it behind my back and not aggressively but firmly rap like my Knuckles against.

[00:38:16] At area of the lower spine, you know right above the pelvis where that's where the spine ends. I can feel that in my feet.  Yes that of that joint still has a little bit of information. And so that's what that is. Right because I actually started thinking myself. Wow, if you really want to take a guy down punch him really hard right now, but his legs will go dead.

[00:38:38] Most likely. Yeah, at least somebody who's got information lower spine. That's for sure. But okay so talk. Me about bridging and stuff like that. I shared with you that one day. I did push-ups and my back felt amazing. And you said yeah because that's the this thing thing so to talk about the bridging and the planking and how that affects the lower back [00:39:00] like I was talking about with the sitting you have to be able to engage those core stability muscles.

[00:39:05] They're very small, but they're meant for the Long Haul people want to do sit-ups and hyperextensions to they think they're strengthening their. Or back their strengthening the movement pattern so you're not really strengthening anything if I need to tighten in or do an abdominal brace my rectus is minimally involved.

[00:39:26] It's involved. I'm not going to say it's not but it's involved to stay still. If I had to do an abdominal brace in a a full Flex position, you can't do it because you're not engaging anything in the back. You have to inhibit the muscles on the back side to flex the ones on the front and vice versa.

[00:39:44] So the only way to get that true stabilization of the back is to be in a neutral position. So that's how I want to train when we're doing these things. So whether it be a plank or a side plank or [00:40:00] dying bugs, They always called dead bugs but dead bugs don't move. So that doesn't work. So dying bugs or anything where you're on a ball and your feet are out straight.

[00:40:09] I'll use all use a hyper extension machine and I'll just stay straight out and if I want to hold a little bit of weight I can you know, just but I don't I don't move through the whole movement unless I'm getting ready for a show and then I need to look but there's a difference between training for a look versus training for function function, right?

[00:40:30] Yeah. We're talking about what we're talking about. Now if I want to train for function, I'm not moving on the hyper extension machine. I'm just letting my body hold against gravity in the neutral position. And then guess what? I had a flip over and I do the same thing because I got to train both sides.

[00:40:47] Alright because of gravity is only going One Direction. I'm only training part of it. I got a flip over and do the same. So you definitely want to brace that abdominal region and keep it neutral and that goes through every movement, [00:41:00] you know, very few movements in the gym that we want to take that lumbar spine out of neutral.

[00:41:06] But again, you'd never know that by walking in and watch well and how much of that has to do with our infatuation with our ABS. I've I remember one day I was at the mall with the Lisa and I was sitting she was shopping and I was like sitting and I was just observing. And you know, we were in a place where lots of younger people shop because that's where Lisa shops he's going to be 60, but she looks like she looks every bit 35 to like compared to all these other people and so I'm looking and I'm realizing like wow, you know, I made jokes about sagging people's pants and how they have display their feet and walk weird to keep their pants on is going to lead to some sort of skeletal muscular problem later on in life.

[00:41:46] What about our infatuation with our ABS? We're trying to keep our abs. Stop doesn't that doesn't that shift the pelvis to an unnatural place? And could that be contributing to lower back problems?  If it's in if it's done [00:42:00] outside of a balance and you know, it's no different than you know, I'll eat I'll eat clean most of the time but if I want to go out of McDonald's one day, I might have it.

[00:42:09] We it's not going to make me totally unhealthy if I use. Exercises to strengthen my rectus abdominis muscles to look a certain way so that when I get on stage, I have the nice little raviolis and eight pack or whatever. I'll do that and I'll only it but I only do it if I'm getting ready for a show and even when I'm doing that, I'm still focusing also on making sure that I not ignoring my my stabilizers.

[00:42:38] So if unfortunately people just don't get taught so shows like yours are valuable. Because they do teach people you can't ignore this stuff. I wish we would all go in to you know, kindergarten and first grade classes and teach kids how to sit right how to use their head right teach them about posture and teach them about movement [00:43:00] from the hips as opposed to from the back.

[00:43:02] We'd save a lot of people and yeah, I think that kids if they're 18 years old and all they want to do is abs abs abs abs abs, yeah, they're going to eventually have an imbalance and there. Shift in they're going to be out in front of their center of gravity. Their pelvis is going to be tilted potentially rotate it as well and it will cause longer term problems.

[00:43:22] So I think that all the different parts of the body must have individual PR groups and right now the so as has a really good PR firm working for them because everywhere you go from David goggin talking about how working on his throat as change the way he ran I have you know, my chiropractors friends telling me about stretching the psoas and it's PSO a.

[00:43:43] What both so as but anyway, what does the psoas is it is it come front and center because we sit all day and it shortens after you know, 365 days a year of sitting at your desk for you know, five six hours a day and it can that contribute to [00:44:00] the imbalance that leads to lower back. It can it can take you out of a neutral or gnosis and bring into a little bit more flexion and honestly, it hurts.

[00:44:09] I mean when it's tight it hurts and you're going to get hip pain and and groin area pain do I think it's probably as important as it's being made out to be no. It's no more important than any of the other muscles that are in your lumbar spine or your pelvis, but it is there and with the amount of sitting and improper sitting that we're doing.

[00:44:31] We are shortening it and so like like you said earlier if you're tucking your your butt in, you know, pushing your hips up until you're sitting on the back of your pelvis instead of the balls of your ass that would probably contribute even more because now the so as is shortening from the top as well as the bottom, correct because it of course is attached at the spine, right?

[00:44:52] So, yeah, I I know it's an issue and I don't ignore it and I show my patients stretch stretches for it and sometimes somebody walks in and I [00:45:00] know that. 90% of their problems but you know we get to look at how people sell things to if they're if they're trying to sell something always question is are they selling or the teaching?

[00:45:13] So what about that little gun that chiropractors use that tap tap tap tap, you know, it's like the some of them on the automated automated one or the handheld you tell the guy that I go to he use the handheld one. He has to strike, you know, pull it pop pop pop. Yeah, okay. So that's called an activator.

[00:45:29] They're they're pretty good. They're really good for babies for pets or for people who don't have great bone density in my opinion. Now, there are protocols that are Chiropractic adjusting protocols that work specifically with the activator and here's why they work the activator is faster than our bodies reflex response spring loaded.

[00:45:53] So let's say I wasn't. Super fast with my hands if I tried to do a slow adjustment into an area [00:46:00] that was kind of sore. You met reflexively tighten against me and not let me move that joint. I'm pretty quick with my hands. And I know that when the person is actually relaxed that I can push through and get that adjustment.

[00:46:14] But sometimes it doesn't matter how quick my hands are. It's just not going to be fast enough and then I have the activator by my side to use it as needed. With my patient population. Most of my people are younger healthier adults that are in more for routine maintenance at this point, so it doesn't get used a ton, but I just had a my one of my massage therapists is on.

[00:46:37] Partial maternity leave and her son came in. I had seen one shortly after birth and he was great and then she you know, she got busy and next couple months passed and I just saw him again and I found that he had a small turtle torticollis with his neck. So his neck was a bit twisted and he was favoring always looking on his right side.

[00:46:56] So I did an adjustment and I use the activator. [00:47:00] And I use the activator cervical spine and I just got the report today that he slept for the first time night through all the way night through and was great therapist joke. She's like hey, I love my son again. That's funny. So what about that? What about people who sleep on their side?

[00:47:16] Does that contribute to more lower back problems? So if you're on your side you just you have to put a pillow between the knees or hips are wider than our knees at least than everybody I've seen and we have to have a. Into space that out. So if your I recommend a body pillow and I'll explain why in a second, but if you've got to make sure that the distance between your hips is the same as the distance between your knees.

[00:47:41] Otherwise, you're going to shift or tilt or rotate diag up for that. The reason I recommend a body pillow is because the same thing kind of happens at the ankles. So your ankles are narrower than your knee. And if we can spread that out, we will take some of the torsion off of the knees and then additionally if [00:48:00] you can hug, the pillow in front of you that gives you something to do with your arms rather than bringing those arms up overhead, which then becomes a problem for the shoulder shoulder, right?

[00:48:11] You got it interesting because because when I my back got tweaked from being too aggressive on the inversion table that night because I sleep on my side. But I shift to my back tonight and then sometimes I'll shift back to my side and I noticed that the way I typically start off in my side is I sleep on my left side.

[00:48:33] I take my right leg and throw it back behind me and holy crap that lit my lower back up. Oh, yeah when I did I was like I could feel my lower back was. And I never realized that before because my lower back didn't hurt me like that. And so I thought wow, I wonder if sleeping on my side is aggravating this problem.

[00:48:51] So you just answer the question and probably was well, if you're if you're bringing that that leg behind you, you're definitely going to jam up that same joint we talked about but if you can [00:49:00] elevate. That leg to make it neutral than you'll be. Okay. I want to take a last commercial break and when we come back I want to we'll talk about kinetic cream to in the mix of this.

[00:49:10] The website is Pinnacle Cairo.com. You can reach out to dr. Banks there. If you have questions, I'm sure he'll help you and we'll also ask him. How do you find a good chiropractor in your own? Hometown? Stay tuned. Welcome back. We're talking to dr. Craig back. So how does somebody source and find a really good chiropractor, right?

[00:49:31] Because just like personal trainers. There's some guys out there and gals out there who really don't know what they're doing at all.  I think the best way to start is referral if you have somebody that you know and trust and they've had good results with someone that. Maybe going to the same you're going through the same types of things that you are.

[00:49:51] That would be the best thing you start with a referral because I could advertise that I am the best in the world and I mean there's all kinds of claims [00:50:00] I can make but that doesn't really mean that I'm going to be able to help you. But if you found somebody that you know and trust and they had a similar issue to you and they referred you to somebody it's definitely worth a try.

[00:50:12] The one thing. I will say, I think that it's extremely important. Much like you just said there are people who do Chiropractic Care differently so or perform Chiropractic Care differently don't give up if you had not the best experience with one. Okay, and I always joke. I had a dentist one time that convinced me to drill my teeth without novocaine and you know eventually found out that the guy was on.

[00:50:41] Loads and loads of drugs that got pulled over and he was loaded with all these drugs that he was stealing from his patient stash. Well, I couldn't just say I had a bad experience with Dentistry. I'm never going back to and right dentist, but people do that with Chiropractic they say, you know what?

[00:50:57] I went one time and didn't help I hurt worse or whatever [00:51:00] and they just they give up, you know, I would say don't go back to the same person. You know or talk to the talk to the doctor who you had a bad experience with like well, why did I have this experience and maybe they expected you to hurt a little worse than that day.

[00:51:14] That's their fault for not telling you that they expected that but, you know certain times I tell my patients. You're not going to feel good tomorrow. You're going to feel like I beat you up and if you'll feel like I ran over the truck, but two days from now you're going to feel amazing and drink water.

[00:51:30] Whatever the Aftercare and the expectations need to be set up.  Somebody who's been doing it for a while. Helps and it's not that there aren't good doctors right out of chiropractic school. I thought I was decent but I look back and I realize I wasn't as piece and it's alright. Yeah, and then again work with someone who's worked with the same or even personally involved with the same type of population that you fall in.

[00:51:59] So so if you're [00:52:00] a bodybuilder and you want to see somebody who's. Give me perform Chiropractic Care on you and they happen to be a bodybuilder that's going to be a benefit because they know what you're going through. If you're a cyclist find somebody who's a cyclist because to be honest most chiropractors are fairly active people and you're going to find many of them that are places of participants in that same sport that correct, right?

[00:52:25] So I know there's a chiropractor is an avid Runner. He's a very he's a marathon runner. And so if I've got a marathon runner and they don't want to see me or maybe that guy's. I'll say hey go see him. I had one bed. I had one bad experience with a chiropractor when I was on the show actually probably about seven or eight years ago.

[00:52:42] I met him at the Arnold in the strongman area and and and he supposedly put these. Guys together with the logs fell on them and you know and so Lisa and I drove up there and he did hurt me and I had two other doctors tell me how he heard me. He [00:53:00] he had me lay face down in the adjustment on the adjustment table and had me turn my head all the way to the right and he snapped my neck a couple times and what he did was when you look at my x-rays, there's like the brachial some some brachial nerve that comes out of the neck.

[00:53:18] What is it? Yeah brachial plexus. So he liked he squished it twice and my whole right arm went dead like for like four days. I couldn't move my right arm. I know and I told him and he said no nice is it's because you Squad was like no dude. This is happen. When I was squatting heaven when you put me on the table, it's like okay, never mind, you know, and that's another thing.

[00:53:40] I respect you. I get it wrong a lot on this show. I have to come back. I mean over 14 years now. I've had a correct myself a lot on the show over the years that I had that wrong while I learn something new and this is the truth and at least it's the truth for now, but when when you hurt somebody and you're [00:54:00] a.

[00:54:00] And you go now wasn't me it was you that's BS man. Just just go. You know what? Yeah, I guess I should have looked closer at the x-rays. You do have like bone spurs on your neck. That's I can see where that irritated you now man. I'm sorry. I won't do that again, you know, it's like but it's worse when they make you feel bad when they say it's you, you know, yeah and you you do have to own up to it.

[00:54:23] I had a patient and I don't know how I could have done this any differently, but she hadn't been in the office for a couple of years. And she's the wife of a doctor and she came in she kind of wanted to be in and out in and out and I was like, okay. Well you had any change in health history? No, no, no nothing.

[00:54:42] Where are you sore? I'm so right in my mid back and I call I'm telling you I barely touch this woman and I hear oh well and it wasn't a good one. Really, you know, and I said, We need to go take an x-ray. I think we broke you. [00:55:00] That's pretty sure that was a rib and I'll adjust my kids with less Force when I was going to say so she has brittle bones.

[00:55:06] Maybe that's all that he said. Oh, I forgot to tell you. I was diagnosed with severe osteoporosis and I was just put on medicine for it last week. Well, that's not your fault that that might have, you know, though then news for me and I did I asked you know, but I still felt bad because here's me delivering.

[00:55:23] The blow adjustment. Yeah, and I mean, you know, so what about that? What about that women who have severe osteoarthritis osteoporosis? Are they not candidates for adjustments? That's when that activator comes in pretty good. Yeah. Yeah, so you're definitely not going to be doing a lot of manual stuff in a case like that and same thing goes with people who have weakened tissue because of recent say chemotherapy or radiation therapy or anything like that.

[00:55:49] You have to watch all that stuff and a good doctor a good chiropractor. Going to ask and if somebody just lays you down on the table without asking that's your first warning [00:56:00] sign might not be in the right spot. Hey, have you ever this is just coughed like out of left field. But do you ever have people who have degenerative disc disease go and have ferritin and T IBC tested to judge to determine if they're suffering from Iron overload.

[00:56:16] I've been doing a lot of research on iron overload. I think a large number of the population actually suffer from it and it will rot. Away first you know, I haven't looked into that. I've heard just a teeny bit of it. So it it probably should be something I do more frequently as far as doing some of the testing.

[00:56:35] I see a lot of people also who are iron deficient to so I mean, yes for that. I don't know why I don't test for the overload. Yeah, you got to do the ti BC. It's not enough to just do ferrets and because they could be on drugs or they contain high doses of Vitamin C that would raise ferritin by itself without raising iron the tea, I beseech.

[00:56:52] You the in tissue potential for iron and holy crap you want to talk about [00:57:00] osteoarthritis iron overload will make it happen like overnight very very quickly. And for some reason it affects the disks in the spine dramatically. I just don't know why. More research more research, you know, I got to keep figuring this stuff out that the one constant is that we'll never know everything.

[00:57:16] Yeah, we'll never know why but we're building on it. We're building on that finally found it. So talk about kinetic cream. It's still around how many years now? Have you been producing Connecticut? I want to say we have been nine years now for genetic cream, and I we actually we were we grow, you know, but ultimately it's just myself in a pain management doctor.

[00:57:39] Fine and we produce a stuff obviously not like in our bath. It's very expensive to produce because it's got like most things have like one active ingredient and you've got like 13 really expensive active ingredients in there. It's not cheap. It's not cheap and we kind of. Shocked the market and drop their prices.

[00:57:59] [00:58:00] We went down to 1999 for the 4-ounce bottle and I was telling you that lasts forever that 4-ounce bottle. Yeah, it's a two to three month supply and it's telling you the margins are paper thin but I want people to be able to. Experienced this and it's just hard for me having still a full-time Chiropractic practice to go out and teach public why it's different than Biofreeze when right now you can buy Biofreeze on any shelf and people just don't necessarily know the difference and why I'm going to pay 20 bucks to whether it be kinetic cream.com or Amazon.com or whatever.

[00:58:36] Why am I going to pay $20 when I could go get Ben Gay for 7 Bucks, you know, and it takes me to be a. Marketer and less of a chiropractor in the office and that's my fault and I'll take the blame for that. But in the meantime, everybody uses it loves it. Well doesn't doesn't Pro bodybuilder Phil Heath use it Phillies does use it.

[00:58:54] Yes. He loves that stuff. Right? He loves it. We've got a poster that goes to the gyms that carry it [00:59:00] now with him on it. We're working on a box that has like a 1200 that holds 12 creams just to go on the counter with with his picture on I mean he swears by he never uses anything else he and his fiancee just.

[00:59:13] Absolutely love it. And I still have I still you know, I use it so sparingly and I've even had my nephew come over once and he had pulled his his hamstring at football practice and he was spending the weekend with us. And I had him rub it on his hamstring and it was amazing because you know kids there's no Placebo with kids if the pain is still there.

[00:59:36] They're still cranky and crying. It's not like oh, I think it's going away. No and he was like about the next morning when he woke up. He was like, can I put more of that on I was like, yeah and it smells so good. I used to put it on my lower right panel beneath my nose when I had a stuffy nose so that I would sleep and breathe it in all night long because it would open up my sinuses.

[00:59:57] Yeah. Safer for you than like a Vicks. Yeah. Yeah. [01:00:00] Yeah great stuff. So people can get that a kinetic cream spell it spell it for the audience Ki n y-- t-- icre am so it's like kinetic cream, but we took one of the Seas out. So kinetic cream.com or like I said, it is available on Amazon as well because I know a lot of people have Amazon gift cards after holidays and stuff.

[01:00:21] So and that's and instead of a instead of using some topical pain. Leave it at generally is just Menthol and it just shifts your perception of the pain from the muscle to the skin, right it did cause it's like if I if you if your if your arm hurts really bad on I smash your foot your arm doesn't hurt anymore because now you're focused on your foot and that's all that's all those other creams.

[01:00:44] Do they just kind of decoy sensation away from the pain to the surface of the skin because the skin feels hot and tingly right exactly. Well now of course the New Sensation. Is CBD creams? Okay, [01:01:00] and here's what the research is and you know me and you too we like the research CBD is an anti inflammatory component, but they're putting them in the same creams that are essentially evaporating on the skin.

[01:01:14] So the CBDs not going anywhere. It's not getting past the skin. So going to let you in on a little secret and this is probably dumb because I think took it's not ready yet, but. We do have a kinetic cream with CBD in it. I was going to ask if you were going out with one. Yes, we are. Yes, we are and it's it's great.

[01:01:33] It really is great. Now obviously that drives the price up but you know, when people are expecting people expect to pay a little bit more for Stuff of CBD. It's just the cost of getting it's an expensive ingredient very very expensive and more expensive the it almost doubles my cost. Unfortunately to produce the thing so but I have tried it I have used that I'm working with.

[01:01:54] Company that that does CBD exclusively and they are [01:02:00] going to do a little bit more of the distribution, but it was still will Bill still will be a kinetic cream product. So I'm excited for that to come out. Very cool. Very cool. The website is Pinnacle Cairo. Oh one last question. So if. Obviously we spend so much time with gravity pushing down on us.

[01:02:23] So if you do inversion, if you do decompression type stuff at your at your chiropractor's office, is it possible to truly plump those disks back up over time? If you're taking vitamin C. I know there's a lot of vitamin C in those disks I learned but if you're if you're hydrated and you're doing the right things taking collagen and stuff like that and you're getting the decompression.

[01:02:46] Even if it's for a short period of time three four five times a week in your inversion table. Can you start to restore the height of those disks over time? You think you can you can you just have to be very diligent with it? And you know the aging [01:03:00] process kind of shrinks it to an extent as well again, just because of gravity so you have to be ahead of it.

[01:03:05] But yeah, I've seen numerous people we've massively increased their disc spaces even up to 50% of the original space now again, some of that depends upon your starting. Mission if you're starting with virtually nothing don't expect to double it. You know, I have seen people with almost nothing in there L5 S1 that point.

[01:03:25] I just really want to try to create a little bit of space and allow that to move better. But ultimately they're they're spacers, you know, they're they're not shock absorbers, like people think the spinal curves are the shock absorbers. So they're spacers and the give your bones. Space to move that's really the major importance of them Pinnacle Cairo.com go there let dr.

[01:03:49] Banks know you heard his interview today reach out ask him some questions. Thanks for being on the show today Greg. Absolutely. I'm going to give if you don't mind I'm also going to is totally off topic for for superhuman [01:04:00] radio, but my wife's doing a i thing and it's called boozy Baker's they're they're they're baking cakes.

[01:04:06] Can you believe that? Okay, tell me about it. What is it? So my wife is doing. She can't bake. She can't cook or decorate or anything. So she is baking some cakes with a professional and they're making a signature cocktail again. This is not the health part. No. No, you got to have fun at the I have some fun, but you got to have some balance.

[01:04:26] Like I said, so so they're doing that. They're doing a little YouTube channel. It's it's called boozy Baker's Bo o zi e bakers. So I promised her I'd at least maybe mention and I hope you'll well, of course not a problem. It's a tough let the audience check-in. Hey, we all we all liked it. Why it's funny it's truly funny.

[01:04:43] And that's that's part of why I haven't been marketing and my cream is much. I've been doing video editing. Oh, okay. Got it. Now. Well, we got to help you Market that cream to such people need to check out kinetic cream.com. I'm telling you Johan Auto Strom. I just communicated with him this [01:05:00] morning.

[01:05:01] He lives in Sweden. He bought kinetic cream eight years ago front through the show and he still uses I think I want to say.  There's another guy think Ava kike allele or emit ROM and Israel buys it for sure am it right? Yeah. He's got a bite it back in the day. He still use his great customer man. I love that John.

[01:05:24] Yeah. I mean, I know I know the people they they would email me and be like man this, Connecticut. Is amazing and it wasn't even called kinetic cream back that was called something else, which I'm not going to say, but we they've been using that stuff since since the name changed. I mean before that so it's great stuff.

[01:05:41] I can I can almost always bet that if I've got somebody who's International ordering that it was a superhuman radio listening listener and I appreciate that from both you and your listeners you guys always been great to me. I brother talk to you soon. Maybe we could do a show on side to side scoliosis.

[01:05:55] I believe it's a muscular imbalance. Maybe you can straighten. Out on that next time [01:06:00] sounds good man. I talk to you soon. Okay, and that's all we have for today. Hope you enjoyed the show. Tomorrow is the blueprint Power Hour with Coach Rob reddish and we'll see you then. Thanks for listening.