Andrew Morgan

Iron overload shows up as high ferritin in your blood work. But not everyone's "high" is the same. Symptoms may tell the best story. And it's not just from high red meat consumption. And what can you do to protect yourself. PLUS The vegan diet is said to be the right way for humans to eat by those who advocate the diet. Some actually feel worse bt to just stick with it. What happens when a strict vegan switches to eating ONLY red meat? Check out his YouTube channel - http://youtube.com/drewmorg

{mp3}https://superhumanradio.net/components/com_podcast/media/mp3s/SHR_Show_2261.mp3{title}SHR_Show_2261{end-mp3}

Download Episode SHR # 2261

Show Transcript

{spoiler spoilerID,Click to read Show Transcript,Click me to close}

[00:00:00] Welcome back to another episode of superhuman radio. Today is Wednesday. I'm supposed to be joined by my co-host. Dr. Jeff golini, but he's traveling to Parma Ohio. So those of you in Ohio, if you follow him on Facebook, you'll be able to meet him. He's traveling today. He should be there tomorrow, but we're still doing a science for humans discussion.

[00:00:59] In his absence, [00:01:00] I will be carrying the ball. So today we're going to talk about iron overload. And are you at risk in the face of the growing carnivore diet? This is not something to be ignored. We're going to talk about what it is how it happens and what you can do about it because then later in the show, we're going to be joined by Andrew Morgan who was a devout.

[00:01:23] Vegan, and he became a carnivore Dieter and what has happened to him since changing from no animal products to only red meat will get into that a little bit later in the show. Of course I have to. Thank all American pharmaceutical and EFX sports for their title sponsorship of this show you right now you get six of the top selling products absolutely free by going to super game radio dotnet clicking the FX Banner ad putting in your address.

[00:01:52] You will pay five dollars and change for shipping and you'll get a box full of goodies. Absolutely free because dr. Jeff believes. No [00:02:00] one should buy anything until they've tried it.  So many years ago probably. Seven years ago I had dr. Smith. I can't why can't I think of his first name? Right Michael Smith.

[00:02:12] Thank you on the show because I have found a lot of research that showed that accumulating too much iron ages you faster. It could lead to a variety of diseases. There was a linkage between. Iron, overload and postmenopausal women because premenopausal they were bleeding regularly. So they were losing a certain amount of blood every month and that men tended to have iron overload to a greater degree also because of the influences of certain hormones like testosterone in the body's ability to store more iron.

[00:02:45] many of you know for years. I have donated blood every two months. I haven't done it in probably almost two years maybe a year and a half but year-and-a-half. Let's say and I have also eaten at least a [00:03:00] pound of beef every single day now I didn't worry about it when I was donating blood because I was giving up blood every couple months a significant amount 500 milliliters.

[00:03:10] And that was reducing any iron accumulation. But since then I've actually increased my red meat intake at the same time while not donating blood any longer now enter genetics. I have had my 23andMe and I happen to be someone who stores iron easily now from an evolutionary perspective. That would have been a gift because there were times.

[00:03:40] And I'm sure my ancestral Journey that where they just didn't have a lot of red meat to eat.  And as a result, their ability to store iron was probably a blessing not a blessing any longer. When I can readily eat a couple pounds of [00:04:00] beef a day and was doing that for a while way before the whole carnivore diets thing started and lo and behold I started to develop some symptoms.

[00:04:11] My symptoms were. Got issues my sleep became really poor and then I started to develop these this muscle soreness that I'm sure a lot of people would just call. Myalgia fibromyalgia, whatever you want to call it General muscle pain and it started in my quads and it went up into my glutes and then it started traveling into my back muscles and my lats and my shoulders and now it's even in my rib cage.

[00:04:41] So I spoke to my doctor. Dr. Matt Andrews wonderful doctor and we talked about this and he said when's the last time we've done blood work on you? And once again, I'm embarrassed to say it was almost two years ago. You know, I'm supposed to be the guy that tells everybody what to do, but apparently I'm not doing the things I tell people to do and shame on me [00:05:00] shame on me.

[00:05:02] So we get blood work done. I told Matt I really suspect iron overload. And sure enough my ferritin levels came back almost two times higher than what the high-end is supposed to be. So naturally. I'm set up to do phlebotomy once a week for the next couple weeks and then I'll go back to my twice a month donations at the Red Clark Ross, but who is really at risk?

[00:05:30] Of iron overload. Well, first of all if you are. A newcomer to the all you can eat beef diet. You absolutely have to be concerned about it because heme iron. The iron that is found in animal muscle Meats, especially red animal muscle meat is much better absorbed than iron from vegetables. We know this because vegans can become easily anemic easily anemic and they could be eating high iron green vegetables all day [00:06:00] long.

[00:06:00] We know that Hemi iron because it's bound to blood gets into our blood a lot easier and a lot faster. So if you're new to this all you can eat meat diet and don't get me wrong. It has a place there are some good things about it. We're going to talk about that later in the show. You must not ignore monitoring your iron levels.

[00:06:23] You must. Monitor your iron levels. I'm going to say it again because when you start to have iron overload lots of bad stuff can start to happen to your body and we're talking about everything from neurodegenerative diseases sped along too. Cirrhosis of the liver damage to the heart muscles bursting of red blood cells and the list goes on and on this is not something to take lightly.

[00:06:53] So keep in mind that you do not excrete iron, you don't there's no way to excrete it per [00:07:00] say naturally. You can influence your body's ability to excrete it by using key leaders and we'll get into that in a minute. But the single best way to lower your iron load is blood donations, and I'm telling everybody in this audience right now.

[00:07:18] If you haven't had blood work done in a while.  Have it done and especially pay attention to ferritin. Ferritin is the protein that binds to iron and deposits it into muscle and as the blood becomes more saturated with iron it puts more of it into tissue. If you are suffering from things like oh neuropathies, but you're not diabetic and your doctor goes T.

[00:07:52] I just don't understand why you have neuropathy your blood sugar is great. It's obviously not diabetic neuropathy, but we know that nutrition will wrap at [00:08:00] these occur. Well, one of the things that's linked to the hyper storage of iron and tissue is the change the change in the way your sensory nerves work.

[00:08:13] The way your nerves feel things.  Because iron agitates irritates the nerves so if you start noticing, you know, I'm getting this numbness in my feet. I wonder what it could be. One of the things you might want to look at is your ferritin levels number one. The other thing that iron does it causes hyper oxidation.

[00:08:40] So you have a lot more oxidative stress in your body and it is and it drives inflammation up and we all know that inflammation is not a good thing because inflammation is stimulated by the nervous system, and I'm Sorry by the immune system and. All [00:09:00] of the research on iron overload includes autoimmunity.

[00:09:06] Think about this for a second as one of the pieces of the puzzle for autoimmunity. Could your particular autoimmunity be coming from Iron overload? We know that iron overload also shows up in the gut now some people they get out, right? Stomach aches and pain but that's generally from an acute high dose of iron and acute high dose of iron but just gentle accumulation over time may not show up as pain but may show up in changes in the gut function and thus the immune system.

[00:09:44] There is no research out there yet linking. Iron, overload to microbe microbiome changes, but I guarantee it's happening because you can't disrupt the gut without disrupting the microbes that inhabit it so I [00:10:00] suspect that the autoimmunity portion of it is coming from irons effect on gut microbes, okay?

[00:10:09] Now when we talk about iron overload a lot of people think well, I got my blood bad blood work back and the ferritin levels said anything from 22 288 and mine is only a hundred ninety seven, but I still have symptoms understand that epidemiological ranges of large groups of population. It is meaningless when we talk about sensitivity to iron your sensitivity to iron comes from your evolutionary Journey.

[00:10:43] There are some people. Who do better with higher iron and some people who don't you must look at the symptoms and then experiment with getting your iron down lower the key to finding The Sweet Spot in [00:11:00] your iron level is. If your hemoglobin starts to drop you're going way too low in your iron, but if you can go all the way down to I guess it's nanograms of a deciliter, I believe but if you can go all the way down to 20 and I may have those metrics wrong.

[00:11:16] So don't don't don't tell me it's nanograms of leader if that's what it is. I don't have the the the framework of a say memorize but if your low end on your test as. And you're a 20 and your hemoglobin is fine. Then chances are that's probably one of the sweet spots for your personal iron level.

[00:11:39] Because we know that too much iron leads to Rapid aging of cells. And when we talk about this from the anti-aging context having the lowest amount of iron in your body that yet not impairing hemoglobin and oxygen saturation levels of blood and the ability for red blood cells that carry oxygen [00:12:00] is where you want to be.

[00:12:02] So if you're one of those people like me as I've just learned.  that does better with lower iron. And I can keep my hemoglobin High even with low iron that is where I need to stay. I need to go there and stay there and and paying attention to ferritin levels. And adjusting them accordingly should be just as important to you as paying attention to your testosterone levels and adjusting them accordingly.

[00:12:30] We all pay attention at harma. Oh, you know, I got to keep my testosterone you need to learn what the sweet spot for iron is in your body and then you need to work to maintain it there through diet and blood donation. Now when people have low hemoglobin and high iron and clearly the iron is causing problems, then doctors usually turn to chelating drugs and there's quite a few chelating drugs out there that people can take [00:13:00] and they actually bind to iron and make it water soluble so you can urinate it out.

[00:13:05] That's one of the few ways to excrete iron. There are also natural key leaders out there. One of them happened to show up in an anti aging study that we just talked about in rodents where decision ebb and quercetin will used and actually improved the death of senescent cells and prolonged life and rats.

[00:13:24] We just did that with dr. Robbins of a couple three weeks ago. I think it was well. Quercetin happens to be a powerful powerful Iron Key later. Now, you can't go crazy with corset. You have to take small doses a couple times a day 200 mg. Once or twice a day is really all you need. But quercetin also binds to iron and allows you to get it out of your body through your nation.

[00:13:50] But if you're already an iron overload, like I am you can't waste time with that stuff that's good to manage your iron uptake. But [00:14:00] once you're in Iron overload, you must donate blood and you know, what we've talked about the benefits of donating blood on the show. So many times donating blood causes the the bone marrow to release new stem cells that can actually heal and fix things.

[00:14:16] Donating blood allows you to manage your iron intake and an accumulation donating blood is really a good thing to do. Anyway, if you're not at risk of iron overload even donating blood a couple times a year can make a world of difference. In fact, dr. Andrew told me on the phone yesterday that people who regularly donate blood show a much lower risk of heart attack than people who don't.

[00:14:42] So there's magic to donating blood and you should donate blood and you're also helping other people by donating blood because somebody needs that blood anyway, but getting back to Iron Key later. So Iron Key laters are well, well understood and work in managing blood [00:15:00] levels of iron and therefore tissue deposition as well.

[00:15:04] But nothing beats phlebotomy. Nothing beats donating blood from time to time. We're gonna take a quick commercial break when we come back. I'm going to pick it up on the other side and tell you some more interesting things about iron and its absorptive abilities into the body and what kind of damage it can do.

[00:15:23] To your body if you're not paying attention to it stay tuned

[00:15:28] welcome back. So with the growth of the popularity of the carnivore diet more and more people need to start paying attention to iron overload. I'm telling you it's going to be a problem.  but not just red meat eaters are at risk of. An overload if you take high doses of Vitamin C you may be at risk of iron overload.

[00:15:50] In fact vegans should take Vitamin C because it allows you to absorb the less absorbable [00:16:00] iron in vegetables and you won't end up in the Mac. If you take Vitamin C with regularity on a vegan diet. I'm not suggesting that vegans eat that way. I think it's a silly way to eat but. If you insist on eating vegan diet, you absolutely should be taking a couple thousand milligrams of Vitamin C A Day to make sure that you're extracting what little bit of iron you can get from your vegetables.

[00:16:24] Who else is at risk of iron overload. Well, Interestingly enough anybody who is who has obstructive sleep apnea and hasn't corrected it either using CPAP or something else those momentary drops in blood. Are interpreted by the body as the blood not being able to carry oxygen to the brain and to the heart.

[00:16:50] So the body goes into an almost Aretha poetic effect where it increases red blood cells hematocrit and iron retention.  so. [00:17:00] If you're somebody who snores really bad and you suspect you have obstructive sleep apnea. You probably have increasing iron levels in your Blood and Tissue which will lead to iron overload eventually because again, if you're not doing things to help excrete it like using chelating agents.

[00:17:17] It just stays in you the other people that are at risk of iron overload are those of us who are on HRT. Testosterone levels increase iron absorption. And so anybody on HRT or any any drug using athlete out there that using high doses of androgens absolutely has to watch out for iron overload. It's a that's an important one and then obviously anybody who has a predisposition to being a more efficient absorber of iron needs.

[00:17:57] Look out for but maybe you never done a 23andMe. [00:18:00] You just don't know that so let me give you a tip.  If you come from the Mediterranean like me.  Chances are she's me you are better at absorbing iron than your Scandinavian friends. And that's because we probably had less red meat in our diet. When you look at the Mediterranean diet.

[00:18:25] It's high in fish. It's high in chicken. It's high in eggs. It's low in red meat.  Now, I don't know why that is dr. Dale bredesen writes about this in his book The End of Alzheimer's he write specifically about the true Mediterranean diet. It's a kind of paleo Mediterranean. Right high and green leafy vegetables high and fish.

[00:18:50] Hi in in eggs moderate in Dairy because of cheese very very high in chicken.  [00:19:00] And really moderate to low in red meat.  And hence if you evolved if you our ancestors evolved. Under that kind of a diet then chances. Are you have developed a better absorption of iron and general?  You know, what's really funny?

[00:19:23] So I had this conversation with Elisa. Elisa has not eaten red meat throughout her whole life. She's never eating red meat and I've only got her to eat some red meat here and there. Very little, you know, occasionally she'll have some bison that's it and she is aging so friggin well and you know, I can't discount the fact that she has never been in a red meat eater.

[00:19:46] She'll officially chicken. She'll eat eggs. She instinctively has eaten the correct diet for us Italians.  So not just red meat eaters are at [00:20:00] risk of developing iron. Overload. But I'm telling you folks iron overload is not often spoken about linked to Advanced aging it increases oxidative stress and increases inflammation increases wear and tear on the body.

[00:20:20] It increases pain threshold people who say oh, you know, I just don't understand why my muscles ache and pain so bad all the time go have your ferritin tested and then work on lowering even if the doctor says now you're in range try lowering it donate blood. And and and cut the red meat out of the diet and see what happens if your ferritin starts to drop if you notice that some of the aches and pains go away.

[00:20:49] You know, what else hi iron load. Increases the risk of osteoarthritis joint pain joint swelling think of people [00:21:00] who who have disorders that are not tied to rheumatoid arthritis or you know, the doctor says all your developing arthritis. My joints hurt. I don't understand why I take glucosamine check your ferritin levels.

[00:21:12] And try to get them lower. Even if your doctor says no, they were within range. You're under 288. It's within range. Try to get it down to 50. See what you can do. So, you know, I'm going to I'm going to go donate blood every two months Let's test again and see where the number is and then donate blood every two months and cut out red meat for a while.

[00:21:34] And see how low you can get it. And as long as your hemoglobin is staying high enough and to maintain oxygen saturation and red blood cell count as long as those are staying high enough, see how low you can get your iron. And see if you feel better because I suspect this is very overlooked in our population today, but I suspect it's at the root of a lot of [00:22:00] problems that no one's paying attention to I'm telling you.

[00:22:02] I know that these symptoms got worse as I increase red meat in my diet. There's no doubt in my mind about it. No one no one will ever be able to tell me. Because I could see the weeks that I was eating more red meat that the muscle pain and the joint pain and also the lethargy the fatigue I felt more fatigued, but I didn't put two and two together.

[00:22:26] I was blaming other things.  Oh, maybe it's the coffee the caffeine. I gotta back out of after getting my blood work done. I realized it's the iron that my body is retaining.  So I hope. This at least inspires you to pay attention to your ferritin levels and do something about trying to get them as low as possible without interfering with normal red blood and and Anna and red blood and oxygen carrying effects of your body.

[00:22:56] We're going to take a quick commercial break when we come back. We're gonna be joined [00:23:00] by Andrew Morgan. He's going to tell us a very interesting story about once being a vegan and then switching to the carnivore diet. And that's why I want to have this talk before him coming on because I think there's a place for the carnivore diet.

[00:23:15] Maybe not lifelong but periodically. But if you're going to do the carnivore diet, you have double triple the responsibility to pay attention to your iron levels. Absolutely oil. A lot of people going to get sick and not know why I stay tuned. We'll be right back with more superhuman radio.

[00:23:36] Welcome back. I love doing interviews like this next one.  because it shows the evolution of a human being it shows the openness to. To consider things that may be outside of your box of comfort. My next guest is Drew Morgan. How you doing Drew? [00:24:00] I'm doing good. How are you doing girl good, so I want to let the audience know that I really don't know much about you other than you were a staunch vegan for a long time.

[00:24:12] Let's start there what made you turn to the vegan diet? And by the way, I'm doing this interview for Natalie Natalie. I hope you're listening. Okay. What made you go vegan? When did it happen? Okay, so I want to begin about four and a half years ago. I was 28 years old at the time. My grandfather had passed away that year of a heart attack.

[00:24:36] I also got mononucleosis otherwise known as the kissing disease, you know, I don't I don't even know how I pick that up. But yeah, so I felt what it was like to be very very very sick and I also felt somebody close to me and my family died of a heart attack. So I started to reconsider what I was doing, you know at the time I was just I was like, all right, I can be unhealthy my [00:25:00] twenties and recover later in life and around that time was starting to become later in life to me.

[00:25:06] You know, I figured by 30 I should have it together. I should be starting to pick up the health aspects of my life. And so instead of drinking alcohol the time and eating tons of meat and you know, white rice and all this stuff together and meals to try and Gain. Body mass by working out in the gym.

[00:25:26] I said, okay, you know, I don't really eat it that many vegetables anyways, and I kind of feel like unclean inside so to speak and so I just felt like I was lacking something. I felt tired all the time. I was drinking tons of caffeine just to kind of like stay awake. And yeah, so I started actually met this girl, of course, and she introduced me to the vegan diet.

[00:25:49] And I wasn't getting good results of the time with what I was doing. So she told me yeah, don't worry about it. You know, I know these I know these really ripped body builder guys that are doing it they feel amazing. They have [00:26:00] better flexibility, you know, the whole list of vegan superpowers that you get apparently once you start eating plants.

[00:26:07] And so I bought into it I said, okay. Well, I didn't go blindly I said, I'm going to do this for six months. If I don't get if I lose even a little bit of games. I'm done. I'm going to go back to the meat. I know the meat will be waiting for me. And so I went six months. I got I got okay results. I felt very energized.

[00:26:26] That's what I'll say about doing that because you know, you you're eating a ton of sugar. So you feel pretty high and that and okay. That's an important distinction. I'm glad you said that but but so go ahead I want to just keep that in mind. That you eating a lot of sugar and we're going to go back to that good and and to that point I want to point out.

[00:26:46] I mean, I'm from Southern California. So I have very good access to very very good high quality cheap fruit year-round, which most people do not have all if we could talk more about that later because I did live in Hawaii so we can talk about [00:27:00] that later. But yeah, so we'll start there the first I actually you know, The first year I was I was still kind of unconvinced but I kept going and when things started to get to run the two-year Mark, I wanted to experiment a little more with getting better digestion because that's something that I felt energized.

[00:27:22] I felt good. I felt like I could make gains in the gym if I really up my protein, but my digestion was always pretty bad. And around two and a half years in I'm this is something I'm kind of known for on YouTube Community is I did a 30-day 100% juice fast.  And so that's kind of where like my little YouTube career began is I throughout this 30-day.

[00:27:48] I did a little documentary on my 30 day juice fast, which got kind of a lot of views and very good reception, of course from the juicing Community because there's not there's not a lot of normal people talking about juicing. On the [00:28:00] on YouTube. It's like you have kind of a really weird Niche Community talking about it, but they don't really like the throwing too many facts or document the progress along the way they just talk about all the spiritual enlightenment that they get and all this stuff.

[00:28:14] So I want to actually talk about the weight loss. I want to talk about the math law that I that I experienced. Did you did you did you lose muscle mass? Oh, yeah, I lost in about 60 days. I lost 15 pounds man. And that's and when I say juice fast what what John Rose calls it is a juice Feast.

[00:28:35] They're actually trying to drink as many calories as you can so what so what so what give me an example of the Jews is fruit juice or is this this is just like gold vegetables.  Okay, so I aim for one gallon of fruit juice per day. And I am for 32 ounces of green juice per day dude. That is so much sugar.

[00:28:57] Holy Magnolia. So [00:29:00] so here's the deal. It comes out to about 1,800 to 2,000 calories a day. If you actually get in all that stuff and with the way that it was promoted is that you won't lose any math. You'll just lose sort of. Internal intestinal waste matter that needs to come out which are which which by the way that is so overestimated by communities that try to push cleansing diets and stuff like that if you want to if you want to lose that.

[00:29:30] $4 17 you go to Walgreens you buy a bottle of citrus of magnesia. You plan on staying home all day you drink that and you poop your brains out and everything that's inside you will come out that day and then you'll go and wow that really wasn't a lot. I thought you know Elvis died with 16 pounds of impacted fecal matter in them.

[00:29:48] That's all Bs. I agree. I agree that's the ass and I've actually I've been against the juicing for a long time. You know, I wasn't super impressed with the results that I receive. And [00:30:00] in fact, I received no results because I did the juicing for 30 days and then I was so desperate to eat that of course, I went I I jump back onto eating food again, like a human does right and for 30 days.

[00:30:12] I did a raw vegan diet.  And then that was the worst digestion. I had I had this this is this this is the problem with the vegan diet one of the things that you talk about so. I have to talk a little bit about anthropology for a second to kind of set the table for this. So our in our ancestral lineage, we have Australia Pittacus, but more specifically we have Australia Pittacus grass seal or Africanus depending on who's late naming it and there was Australopithecus robustus.

[00:30:49] And so. Okay, we are deceptive direct descendants of Australia Pythagoras grass seal, which was the first meat-eating Australopithecus. Well pick a pivot [00:31:00] guy before that Australopithecus robustus was the purely vegan and they had a much shorter life span. Probably because of nutrient deficiencies but they had huge huge huge huge guts and tiny brains and big jaws and that's because they spent all day chewing twigs and roots and and stuff to in order to get any kind of nourishment.

[00:31:25] And so they have guts were constantly working to digest basically like sawdust. Let's say and when we moved started to move to more nutrient-dense, Meats and Marrow and stuff like that. Well over the course of evolution our guts got smaller and our brains were able to get bigger because there was less energy dedicated to the gut and so when you see vegans you almost always see distended stomachs appellee 100.

[00:32:00] [00:32:00] I mean, it's just amazing. So I also want to point out something else your unique vegan or were unique vegan because you didn't choose to do the vegan diet because you felt sorry for Animals. You will looking for results those who do it because they feel sorry for Animals ignore the fact that they're getting sicker and sicker on the diet because as long as they're not torturing animals, they're okay when you if you if you strip away.

[00:32:27] All social constructs from this idea. What you're basically doing is you're killing yourself in order to save animals. It's a ridiculous and it's completely counter and and quite frankly. Look at Australia Pittacus robustness. It died eating that diet younger then the grassy lore or Africanus. So today's vegans really are literally killing themselves not to eat animals.

[00:32:58] Okay. Well not together not to [00:33:00] get totally off topic here, but I do want to point out and I talked about I talked to vegans about this I say, how much are you willing to suffer? On the vegan diet, like if you were to know that your results are going to be 5 or 10% less than Animal product diet is that acceptable to you as an ethical vegan and some of them will flat out say yes, if I say, okay.

[00:33:24] Well, what's your limit is it? If is it 20 or 30 percent performance decrease and they'll still don't think harder about it and they'll still say. Yeah, I guess it would still be worth it and I'm just like you're at basically admitting a slow suicide because. You're you're not trying to go to the optimal levels that your body is capable of and your and you know that you know, so and that's very bad.

[00:33:45] But but think about think about that fact that this is a group of people who will eat this way. Even though they know it's going to kill them and and now an and now let's talk [00:34:00] about anorexia nervosa, which we classify as a mental illness and those people also know that not eating and starving yourself the way they do is going to lead to early death organ failure and so on.

[00:34:15] So how is the vegan diet not a mental illness? I know I'm going to get really hung up on this one's people going to just flaming but how is it not a mental illness if you know you're getting sicker and sicker, but you refuse to try something different.  I don't know. I guess there's justifications for everything.

[00:34:33] You know? Yeah. I know I don't want I don't want to I don't want to do that because now I'm going to have a lot of vegan sending me hate mail, but that's okay. They've done it before but but okay so now. Let's talk about some so you did the vegan diet for a total of four years, right? Yeah, four and a half years.

[00:34:48] Yeah, okay and and throughout this period of time did you and I'm going to tell you why you felt great in your head, but not in your body in a second. Did you ever feel like [00:35:00] okay, it's finally kicking in I feel friggin amazing. I can do this for the rest of my life or was it always like I'm doing it, but there's something missing what's wrong with this.

[00:35:11] There was always something missing but I didn't I couldn't put my finger on it and and I always said to myself that I don't miss me. I don't miss Animal product and I really meant that I actually never craved a burger or you know, go into any of these fast food restaurants. I mean, I used to eat all that stuff.

[00:35:33] I never craved steak, which is something that I used to love. It wasn't like I was missing the Foods on an emotional or even a physical level, but the performance just was never there.  Yeah, and I ever that and I love when people post things about vegan bodybuilders, but they refused to answer the question.

[00:35:53] Did they build their body as vegans or did they build their bodies as omnivores and then recently switched to being a [00:36:00] vegan there's a huge difference in that huge difference in that huge difference and that's. And we may be sipping a little bit ahead in the story. But after the juice fast when I lost the weight, I was under the you know, what's what had been sold to me was that now that I'm I've relieved myself of all this horrible waste matter of my previous preview can diet now I could rebuild my body from scratch and I would be absorbing all my food better.

[00:36:30] I would be, you know, just. So much healthier that now all of a sudden I'm going to be much stronger and I'm going to be able to rebuild my body from scratch on a vegan diet and it will be bigger and better and stronger than ever. And of course that never really happened, you know, so right so one of the reasons, okay, so let's identify a couple things then we're going to move forward in the story.

[00:36:50] So first of all as Pam clean came on my show and revealed seven years ago who was a vegan. And just got sicker and sicker on the [00:37:00] vegan diet that the reason vegans actually feel euphoric when they first switch to the vegan diet is twofold number one. There are components of their previous diet that were just plain out crap and making them feel bad.

[00:37:16] And so they removed those from the diet and fact II. We're going to talk about the carnivore diet and I'm going to come back come back and revisit this in a minute. So they remove the things that are actually crappy and their diet but more importantly vegans end up with a very very very out of balance copper to zinc ratio.

[00:37:37] And what happens when copper starts to get very high in the brain you actually start to feel euphoric and you think oh my God, I just love this diet. I feel so good, but I can't get out of the chair. You know what I mean? It's like my brain says, I really feel good. But I'm weak and I'm frail and I don't feel good.

[00:37:55] My digested digestive system isn't working. So the vegan diet [00:38:00] actually anesthetizes the brain to understanding that the body is suffering. Interesting. Yeah, so, okay. So now let's fast-forward Soto four and a half years in you're not feeling good. You're not performing. Well, you still have digestive issues even after the juice cleanse fast detox.

[00:38:19] You still can't digest food fast.  Okay. So after I did the little raw thing the Ravi and thing then I went back to the to a. Truly Whole Foods plant-based vegan diet, which is the foundation of what all the doctors promote right, which is the gold standard for health and all this other stuff in the vegan community, of course, so I didn't do any protein shake I wasn't doing I wasn't even doing smoothies actually for the first time as a vegan.

[00:38:46] I wasn't doing smoothies. So I was eating lots of fruit. I had moved to Hawaii at this point. I had an abundance of very good locally grown bananas and tropical fruit and I. I was not gaining [00:39:00] any weight even though it's working out consistently and I was only a hundred and thirty-five pounds. So it should have been very easy for me to put weight on at that point.

[00:39:08] I was so depleted, right?  but using the whole food plant-based diet, which I consume for about three to four months now I my digestion was good at this time, but. It's not that impressive not saying much because I was only able to eat about 22,000 of 2500 calories a day because Whole Foods plant-based diet.

[00:39:28] I mean if anybody's ever actually eaten that they the volume of food you're eating is several pounds worth of food per day, you know, and it just becomes a logistical nightmare trying to get in 3,000 calories a day if you're trying to grow muscle. Well forget about growing forget about growing muscle anybody who's over 40 who decides to do this, you're losing muscle, even if you know muscle is metabolic currency, you need a lot of muscle to get into the later years of your life to the research that [00:40:00] showing both strength and the degree of muscle a person carries and Longevity and health span is undeniable now, well, you're basically eating a diet that eroding your.

[00:40:12] Yep, I agree that you're always fighting an uphill battle. Like if you don't work out for like two weeks you physically see that lost in your body immediately and it's not just out of your muscles. It's actually out of your during specifically during that whole food plant-based time that I had. I mean my bones were getting so thin.

[00:40:36] My wrist because that's a measurement that I use when I'm when I'm actually making progress in the gym. I like to wrap my hand around my wrist. I have small wrist to begin with and I noticed that I could like there was a huge gap. I mean I can make a ring around my wrist with my other hand and there'd be like two fingers Worth or three fingers with of Gap there.

[00:40:55] Like there was the risks were getting tiny. Right? Right, [00:41:00] right, so I decided that this. Whole Food plant-based thing was not going to cut it. I started throwing in protein shake I started throwing in soy milk again. My digestion was starting to shift from good to average. Hmm, you know meaning some days.

[00:41:17] I had a lot of gas some days. I did, you know that and that's just you know, for the people out there who was still convinced that soyuz a. A plant protein Source it's not it has trypsin Inhibitors in it that keep you from actually digesting and absorbing the protein. It has anti-nutrients in it that caused all sorts of problems to the body but more importantly it has phytoestrogens in them and we don't need those phytoestrogens the in the don't don't don't think that soyuz Manna From Heaven, you know.

[00:41:48] The the the anti menopause people that don't want to do HRT like Oh, no just take soy soy, well if soy corrects your menopausal problems, then what's it doing two [00:42:00] young boys that estrogen is having an effect on them and then you go no, It's not that strong of an estrogen. Well, if it's not that strong of an estrogen, how is it causing?

[00:42:09] You not to have hot flashes anymore when you're going through menopause. You can't have it both ways. You can't have it. Well, it's a good estrogen Source. Oh, but it's not a good estrogen Source. It can't be both ways. Well, I didn't even know that it was used for that but that's pretty wild.

[00:42:23] Okay. Listen, I went to a lecture about six or seven years ago where a scientist proposed that soy is the most advanced evolutionary crop we've seen so anybody any species that has legs and teeth and and. Pause are we can fight we can run, you know, we can bite but plants can run. They can't fight.

[00:42:47] They can't bite so through their evolution. They increase anti-nutrients that keep their natural Predators from consuming them. Well, well soy figured it out it [00:43:00] increased phytoestrogens, so when animals would eat it. There they would they would stop having Offspring because the estrogen levels would go high in the male's they wouldn't have sex with the females.

[00:43:12] They wouldn't have been so basically eating the soil wipe the species off the planet and he said, you know, but now turn it around and the Food Industries like, oh soy is so good. It's got phytoestrogens if you're going through menopause you should take it and you have people giving their young children.

[00:43:28] Young children. I had a woman who was on my show who was a vegan once and she isn't anymore and she said I feel so bad. I forced my kids to eat all those soy smoothies and soy protein and this and that tofu and all this other stuff and she says I feel so bad now and I didn't even have the heart to ask her.

[00:43:48] Did she notice any changes in her children, but could you feeding your child soy would be like if I came and knocked on your door every morning and said hey. I've got some extra estrogen cream. [00:44:00] Let me rub it on your kids before they go to school. You'd be like, what are you crazy? Well, you just gave them the equivalent of a dose of estrogen cream that at that a postmenopausal woman would take in their in their smoothie this morning.

[00:44:13] Yeah, and the vegan science and I'm doing air quotes here with my hands says that the phytoestrogen in. In soy isn't compatible with the human biology. Therefore, you're not actually absorbing or taking in any of that. Estrogen it's not the same as the human estrogen. So therefore it has no effect.

[00:44:34] That's what the vegan sign. It's a stupid lie and ask any postmenopausal woman who says I don't want to get on hormone. So I'm just using a lot of soy and my my hot flashes went away. Yeah soy builds bones because of its estrogenic effects. I mean, it's just it's just silly. But anyway, okay, so I want to take a quick commercial break.

[00:44:57] No, I don't. I want to go a little bit. I want to go at this next question [00:45:00] first never mind them. So okay. So now let's so you get to the end of this two and a half years and you're just not seeing the benefits and the results that you had hoped to see from the vegan diet. Right? Right. So what do you do then?

[00:45:15] Do you try to just go back? It's not eating the regular diet again.  Yeah, so I decided to really up my legumes, you know beans and stuff like that. And I started to consume protein powder and soy milk and I did it. I did pretty heavy feeling like I mean, I was going through cars and soy milk like a couple of them a week and and I started gaining weight.

[00:45:40] I started gaining weight. I started getting quality muscle mass. I was working out for five days a week very very consistently. I mean, I didn't have a job. I wasn't doing anything else in Hawaii. I was just working out and focusing on my health and my my fitness. And I got results I gained from 135.

[00:45:56] I went up to 143 nice, which is not [00:46:00] much but that's muscle that's a lot. Right? Yeah, but that was over the course of maybe let's say 6 or 8 months. But but here's the thing is and I keep telling people this they're like, well, you know, you don't know you don't know the difference. I'm like, hey guys, I gained 30 pounds of muscle in three.

[00:46:23] As an 18 year old kid on Animal product back in the day my first three months ever going to gym and people say oh that's newbie games. It doesn't matter three months 30 pounds and me knowing all I know about working out now and only being a hundred thirty-five pounds at the time. I could only gain to 143 which is an eight pound difference in six months.

[00:46:45] So it took me twice as long for less than half the results. There you go. And and so how about your digestion? How did you feel when you started integrating some of these other Foods back into your diet? Okay. [00:47:00] So the digestion like I said on Whole Foods plant-based was very good and then it went down to let's say it's inconsistent, right?

[00:47:07] Yeah, just just barely good like, you know, and then and then after that I said, okay, well I'm cap. I was stuck at a hundred forty three pounds. No. I couldn't figure out another way to get any more calories into my diet. I was I was again the volume of the food was too much right? So then I started turning towards peanut butter and I found peanut butter the holy grail of weight gain as a vegan.

[00:47:33] As soon as I started incorporating peanut peanut butter into my smoothies. Then I started actually gain weight again, and I was very happy about this. Yeah, but. That was the that was the exact moment that my digestion went from okay to bad again, and I said, okay well.  This is just this is the cost of that mission to be to get bigger.

[00:47:54] I'm going to have to suffer through this digestion. It wasn't like debilitating but it was it [00:48:00] was not enjoyable. I had gas some days for you know, four to six hours or I'm literally just sitting there. Shooting up a storm. All right, man, and it was so long. It was uncomfortable at times and and I even talked about this is like it's hard to maintain a job, you know, I was driving Uber at the time.

[00:48:17] So I'm sitting I'm sitting there in my car. Hoping that the next person I pick up isn't isn't smelling rancid card gas. Right and I'm sitting there are not my car, you know with the windows down and that would have been funny. That's so funny. Yeah, it does. Yeah. So that was what it was, you know, you know most most Uber drivers are for your bottle of water.

[00:48:40] You know what I mean? You're like, hey, did you enjoy the fart to fart? I just played off mic a were in Hawaii. We drive with the windows down here. And then I just you know, I just had the windows done. Yeah, that's got to do. Okay, so where so where does where does the carnivore diet come into all this?

[00:48:58] So you're eating [00:49:00] you're trying to get back to a balanced of. Eating foods that agree with your digestive system and yet we gaining muscle mass that you've lost after this two-and-a-half-year experiment. So how do you get introduced to the to the carnivore diet?  All right, so we'll fast forward a little bit towards the very very end of my Hawaii say I got up to about a hundred and fifty five hundred fifty six pounds on the vegan diet.

[00:49:26] So I was able to get back up to where I was about just before I did the juice fast. So I finally regain my weight. It took two years to get back to where I was and I was I was just as soft and kind of like that as I was before would like kind of skinny fat and and so I hear about all this carnivore stuff and I thought it was just so dumb like I couldn't believe what people like Shaun Baker were.

[00:49:56] You know, you need an all animal products. I and I looked at the guy's skin and I was [00:50:00] like, I don't know about this this this looks like total hogwash and then all of a sudden vegetable police the vegan guy on YouTube came out with his, you know, his announcement that he's been on Carnivore for 30 to 40 days.

[00:50:14] And this is a guy. I don't know if you or your audience knows who he is. No, I don't.  He's kind of like he's kind of like a vegan truther. Okay, so he kill. You'll make videos and he'll talk about this very specifics of what he's doing on his diet. And he was one of the first to expose that you can eat a fruitarian diet and still have blood sugar issues.

[00:50:37] Oh how you mean you needed to prove that when you were telling me you were drinking those fruit juices. I was actually I wrote down to I wish I could have seen your pancreas. I could have seen I wish you were doing c-peptide and. Blood tests because I bet you your pancreas was like oh God. What is this guy going to give us a break?

[00:50:58] Yeah. Yeah [00:51:00] and the lot, you know, of course in the vegan Community if you they say if you are very very low fat. Then it doesn't matter how much sugar you consume because the fat is not there to block the insulin receptors. And then that's the whole that's the whole that's the whole bull s of Forks Over Knives.

[00:51:16] And and and what was the other one? What what the health or whatever that was though? They all try to blame. But oh, well, you know fat is the problem fat. That's the problem. No, it's not. Right, man, and so that's what police he made that he made his announcement that he's now a carnivore and he's talking about his results.

[00:51:35] And this is a guy who in my opinion. He's always kept it very real and he's not trying to sugarcoat anything. So he's like guys I'm on the carnivore diet. It's not a joke. And by the way, my digestion is better than ever like I have no gas in the bloating and and that was like that was enough for me because.

[00:51:54] That's what I was known for in my community of vegan friends always talking about digestion because I had such bad [00:52:00] results with digestion and other people had kind of bad results to but they weren't they weren't outspoken about it. And this is something that I get a lot of hate for from the vegans is like a try and come to tell me that this side is so healthy decided not and then I mention digestion and they all get quiet, it's Cricket when you talk about digestion because every vegan knows that they have their limit with plant.

[00:52:23] And they know that when they eat too much food when they eat enough food to feel very satisfied and to actually maintain weight and maintain performance. That's the exact line that they cross into bad digestion territory. And I want to I want to I want to talk I want to stop I want to stop with fiber for a second.

[00:52:38] Okay. So Leslie Aiello who used to run the fender the wennergren foundation and I had conversations with her probably about eight or nine years ago, maybe 10. About the whole paleo movement. I mean the winner Grant Foundation was an anthropological society that studied previous ancestors that diets and all that sort of stuff and she told me back [00:53:00] then look it's impossible to do Paleo and apple isn't the same Apple that are paleo ancestors, you know, you just need to go back five six seven generations to understand what foods are good for you.

[00:53:11] So we talked about Fiber One day. She's the one who told me the story about. Australia Pittacus grass seal and robustus and she said, you know throughout Evolution. We have reduced our fiber intake and it's rewarded us our guts have gotten smaller now there's this whole movement. To add fiber to everything to coffee creamer to everything.

[00:53:31] I've always, you know, you got to get all this fiber and so I listened to that and I thought about it for deck of four years now eight nine years. I've thought about this whole fiber thing, right? So what I've Come Away with about the discussion of fiber is this when we look at. People who've had died digestive tract surgeries where they're on a quote low residue diet.

[00:53:58] They can't have any fiber [00:54:00] they don't die younger than a population that's eating fiber. So the whole the whole idea about. Oh, you got to have fiber know people tell me I know but you got to have fiber know you really don't have to have fiber but let's think about this for a. Who does fiber really benefit it benefits a diabetic population?

[00:54:20] Why because fiber slows gastric emptying would gastric emptying had been have been a benefit to. Prehistoric ancestors absolutely not because slowing digestion down would have been a deficit the fact that I can't have another meal right now when it's available to me because I just ate three hours ago and it's still in my stomach would have been a evolutionary deficit not a gift but when you look at a population.

[00:54:49] Of obese insulin-resistant people then you go. Yeah fiber is good for them because it slows down gastric emptying so it slows down those the rise and sugar [00:55:00] but those are anomalies those are not those are not supposed to be normalities in our population. So the reality is that if you get some Fiber in some vegetables that you're eating that's okay, but overloading your body with fiber and I guarantee you folks.

[00:55:15] I'm six years old. I'll be dead maybe in another 20 or 30 years. So I'm going to list this podcast go. Holy crap this guy who thought about because now we know fiber is actually no good for the gut. It causes small intestinal back if you look at fiber consumption and sibo if you Google fiber fiber intake.

[00:55:35] And digestive problems you'll see that they rise at the same level from 2004 to today. The more father people eat the more we hear about small intestinal bacterial overgrowth. Think about that.  yeah, that's a whole that the sibo thing is a whole other issue that the vegans like to point to to say, Hey, you know, you're on Carnivore but really you should have taken care of your sibo and [00:56:00] I say.

[00:56:00] Well, the reason I got fibo in the first place was because of the fiber, right? So what why would I go back to the thing that was you know Tebow when you look into sibo they even say this like the doctors even say this is you get a 50% recurrence on patient treatment in the first year, right? So, It is is the is the treatment not working or is the diet that's causing the sibo in the first place really the root cause of the problem and that is such that it that is such a key example of critical thinking that this population is devoid of your right because the the antibiotic that they use to treat sibo is $2,000.

[00:56:41] For a 14-day run and it does it stays contained to the small intestine. It doesn't even make it to the large intestine and it only kills the bad bacteria in the small intestine. And those people go they do that. They do the gas test. Oh, yeah, your sibo is gone. [00:57:00] Go home live life and and two years later.

[00:57:03] They're going I got sibo again. I thought that yeah, it worked. Look look, if you fight if your house catches on fire and the fire truck comes and puts the fire out and two years later your house catches on fire. It's not because the fire truck didn't do a good job the first time it's because you did the same stupid thing that started the fire in the first place again.

[00:57:24] Exactly 100% unbeli And but you see you saw that. You make the deduction I make those kind of deductions, but other people blindly just do the same thing over and over again and expect different results. Yeah. Okay. Actually we're going to take a last commercial break and when we come back I want to talk about your results.

[00:57:44] Now that you're on the carnivore diet stay tuned is going to get really really interesting.  Welcome back.  To this very important episode of superhuman radio with Andrew Morgan. [00:58:00] Other people normally Drew Morgan real quick plug your YouTube channel.  Yeah, so I'm going to do but you can just find me at youtube.com forward slash Drew morgue.

[00:58:14] So through M o-- r-- g-- all one word. Do you re W Mr. G? Okay, so check them out. So let's talk about. Carnivore, how long have you been eating only? And is this this is it red meat. Are you eating only animal protein flesh?  I mean it all baby eggs fish chicken beef.  Yep, all that. I I try and go for the fattier food.

[00:58:44] I'm not too worried about macronutrient ratios, like the ketogenic person would. I have been doing this for about two months now and it all started. Yeah, the last month that I was back there in Hawaii now. I've been [00:59:00] in California for about a month. So I'm definitely loving the food selection here.

[00:59:04] I got so many more options, which is great. But so what are the things one of the things that most people may notice and they misguidedly think it's it's constipation. So I've done I've done exclusively. Beef I've done steak and eggs for long periods of time whenever you shift to a low residue diet people think they're constipated.

[00:59:30] It's not that you're constipated. It's just that these Foods animal proteins fleshes are so much more efficient at being broken down by the body and absorbed almost exclusively that as the diet implies. They leave very little residue very little residual. Mass to actually be pooped out. So when you switch to a an animal flesh diet, I know vegans right now spinning right now [01:00:00] by be calling animal flesh diet, but when you do when you switch to an animal flesh diet, even including eggs, you literally may not go to the bathroom for two days.

[01:00:09] You think? Oh my God, I must be constipated. No and then when you do poop. It's so such a little amount you think oh my God, it's got to be stuck inside of me. Like they say, it's clean. No, you just don't have a lot to poop when you eat this way because you don't have all the fiber. And the undigested stuff like when you eat peanuts a lot of it you don't digest we've done shows about two years ago about the the contribution of calories by eating almonds because you really don't digest a lot of it if you don't masticated if you don't chew it a lot.

[01:00:44] So there's a lot less that actually has to come out. Have you found that?  That has been my experience 1000% I actually went five days I think was the. Without pooping and when I [01:01:00] did poop it was very small amount and I just I literally I chuckled to myself sitting there on the toilet because it's totally the opposite when you're eating vegan diet.

[01:01:08] You're like. Every time you need to do something you have to poop like if you know, you have to leave the house or three hours you better poop before you go because you're going to have to poop right somewhere along the way like it becomes part of your Logistics of your day. That's how much you need to poop as a vegan.

[01:01:23] In fact, I know people don't like to talk about poop. But in fact when you are eating an exclusively animal flesh diet. You will also go through at unless toilet paper because like you'll wipe want you go. Wow. I can't even believe there's nothing there. I just pooped but if you're if you're eating all them all the fiber and the juices, I mean you can spend more time wiping then you do pooping.

[01:01:49] Oh, yeah that I know nobody likes to talk about it right Drew psych. Well, I just want to keep the real. I just want to keep it real, you know, if you're if you're talking about health if you are. [01:02:00] If you aren't looking at digestion as the number one key and my opinion you're missing out because that is the key like that is your body feedback system thing.

[01:02:09] This is working bad or working good and if you poop and it's super clean, like you said one white I call it the one wipe dump.  If you get a one wiper and has nothing on that toilet paper at all, and you go back and people are like you you only go once okay wipe a second time just to confirm.

[01:02:28] There's nothing there right? It's like are you know and it's like that is what I want. I want is evident that and I've said those exact words on the show that no one wants to look in the toilet after they go but that is evidence that the diet you're eating is appropriate for you a dog doesn't like it's not right.

[01:02:46] No unless that you know, and especially if don't like. If you are in the woods you hunt I used to hunt. I haven't in a while, but if you come upon wild dog feces, it's well-formed. It's cigar [01:03:00] shape. Now you go into a house where someone feed their dogs Science Diet which is all cornmeal and the and the dogs poop.

[01:03:07] Like it looks like a Play-Doh. It's mush. Yep. Yep, exactly. Now there's a lot to be told by what's left in the toilet about how appropriate a diet is feel. So how do you feel now of being carnivore?  I absolutely love it. So I've made a few modifications to the carnivore diet. I wouldn't necessarily call myself keto ketogenic either but I am incorporating a little bit more veggies.

[01:03:37] Oh, I'm shocker I have yes, I do them for. A couple reasons just add variety. Yeah honest with you and I you know, I think that some greens are probably healthy and some way and another reason is I'm not doing organ Meats. So I want to have some mineral, you know a little bit of boost to my mineral.

[01:03:56] So I'm doing it twice. I mean we're talking like [01:04:00] yesterday consume one small avocado with my meals Buena and one had a pale total. I would think I'm a big-time A big Broccoli Guy like today I brought I have chicken and broccoli. That's all I have today. I love broccoli. I think broccoli is one of those well-rounded greens that people can eat and I'm not full on.

[01:04:19] I'm not a full-on carnivore, but I want to talk about some because you just said keto you talk about Kettle a couple times and. So a very brilliant man, Ron Penna one of the founders of Quest Nutrition once said to me these words and they've never been truer quite often the magic and a healing diet is not from what you eat.

[01:04:41] But from what you're what you're not eating any longer. So when if we would take circles and we were to say here's the keto diet this one. Here's the here's the carnivore diet this one Circle. And here's the low carb high protein diet. This one Circle. They [01:05:00] all overlap in one specific area and that is what is not in the diet.

[01:05:05] So when you bring took the vegans they feel. That as long as they're not eating anything from animals that they're fine. So that means Pop-Tarts inand and that means Hot Pockets and that means you know, it's like as long as I'm not eating animal I'm fine and that's candy and sugary foods and Breads and all this other stuff and I'm thinking to myself.

[01:05:32] There is such a wide variance in what is considered vegan and it makes it and it makes no sense because the vegan diet if it's going to be vegan should be whole plant-based food now, obviously you can't eat that and expect to perform well in life. Maybe you can eat it for a few weeks to give your digestive system a shock, but you can't eat it lifelong, but when you look at what's eliminated.

[01:05:56] From the diets where people are going my autoimmune [01:06:00] disorder went away, which is Paleo. I'm sorry, which is which is keto carnivore and the ultra low or more like a Mediterranean diet you find that's what they're not eating that they all share in common. What do you think about that? I think that's accurate.

[01:06:16] I mean, I think that if you reach a certain threshold of carbohydrates and you mix that with fat, I mean the one thing that the vegans and the Paleo carnivore people agree on there's one thing they both agree that the fat and sugar at the same time is not good. Yes, so that is the so there's like a big boundary there in the middle of the fat and sugar it nobody's promoting fat and sugar.

[01:06:41] We got it. That's like the donut diet. Yeah, but I nobody's doing that. Oh, so when you look at so then we come to the to the question of how much carbs is too much. If you're going to eat the the high protein high fat way, which is the carnivore way. Right? So we say on a part of [01:07:00] our diet. They say zero carb, you're just eating meat salt and water.

[01:07:02] Well, okay, you know, we're human beings. We live in the modern world. Are we really getting it that way for the rest of our life? I don't know. You know, so how much carbs can we get away with, you know, most people's numbers is between 20 grams and maybe 75 grams a day. If you're very active, you know, that's kind of what the consent consensuses price.

[01:07:22] And to me, I've been experimenting with that myself. I drink products with sugar in it, like kefir, you know, there's Trace sugar in kefir, which is a fermented milk product. I drink or I also eat I eat some nuts and seeds which has some Trace. And vegetables which has some Trace carbohydrates all in all I'm probably getting between 20 and 50 grams of carbs a day.

[01:07:45] I feel amazing. My digestion is 1,000% better than it was as a vegan consistently. I haven't had the white more than once and probably three weeks now, that's no exaggeration price. You know, [01:08:00] I go mine our regular pooping schedules about every other day to every three days which is I'm totally fine with that.

[01:08:07] I feel perfectly fine. Like you said the descended got I do not have a distended gut whatsoever. I have a perfectly flat stomach actually.  I have no gas. I've no bloating. I have I do drink caffeine quite a bit actually because I just enjoy the stuff from. I'm addicted to my audience knows I've been trying to kick caffeine for five years now and every time I come off that I end up going back and II abuse caffeine for a while there is taking like a thousand milligrams of caffeine anhydrous throughout the day.

[01:08:40] So, you know, oh wow. Yeah. Well, I'm Cuban. I literally started drinking caffeine coffee as a probably five years old, right? So I just love I just love this stuff. But anyways, whatever. What else can we say? Oh, so physical performance. I I really want your viewers to go check out on my [01:09:00] channel.

[01:09:00] Like I said youtube.com forward slash Drew morgue that I did my latest video. I show a video clip of myself. I actually gained muscle and performance in the 30 days the first 30 days that I did carnivore. I was actually able to lose body fat and gain muscle at the same time and I proved that by actually.

[01:09:21] Because I do calisthenics so, you know, it's all body weight stuff. So I actually broke my previous pull up rep Matt while losing weight and what I did was I actually added weight to myself in order to simulate my old body weight. So people can just say oh, well you gain you gain reps because you lost weight and therefore it was easier.

[01:09:42] No. No, I put on my actually strap the way to myself and then I beat my old I owe my old rep max. By two or three reps so, you know that that completely ruled that out of the equation. So I proved that I gained strength in just a short amount of time [01:10:00] only 30 days. So those results were very very impressive and encouraging to me.

[01:10:05] Everything else has been very good. Oh libido. I can't believe we have. Oh, yeah. Listen. Listen, the vegan diet was capitalized by dr. Kellogg the inventor of Kellogg's. Corn Flakes because he believed that all of human sin was driven by sexuality and he learned that if you stopped feeding teenagers eggs and bacon in the morning, but instead fed them corn that within the matter of months they libido went away.

[01:10:41] That's where Kellogg's Corn Flakes came from. So vegans never look I've had just recently. A woman contact me and say that her husband is not able to maintain an erection and we started talking about it when I found that he's a staunch vegan. I said tell him to have a steak. [01:11:00] I said just tell them to start eating some meat, you know once in a while and sure enough he was able to perform in bed again, you're not you're not building hormones if you're a vegan.

[01:11:11] I totally agree with you and I think that is I think that is why the muscle building process is so difficult because. At the foundation to it. It's not just proteins and carbs and calories. It's actually hormones. So if your hormones aren't being supported in a way that they're going to be anabolic then you're not going to go muscle doesn't matter how much protein or how much calorie energy you're getting in right?

[01:11:37] So, you know the lot the final month of being vegan for me. I actually lost my ability to perform in bed. Just like you're just like your. The her got her husband, right? And so I didn't start putting it together that it was probably diet-related until until the very very end. And I said, whoa, this is actually I'm starting to add it up here and I'm [01:12:00] like, you know, I'm not horny at all basically and that's weird.

[01:12:04] You know, that's weird for me. So you're young men. Yeah. Yeah and you know, so then, you know, I'll share this with your viewers the first night. That I ate my first meal of meat. I ate one pound of ground beef a for egg. I went to sleep that night by the way, right from the get-go. I had great digestion with it.

[01:12:23] I felt I felt great right? No bloating. No no stomach distention. Yeah. I know it's amazing and it was it was a big plate of food, you know, because at that time I was used to eating the huge vegan dinner. So I had this huge plate of meat a hundred a hundred forty grams of protein. Actually I calculated it and so I went to bed.

[01:12:42] 4:00 a.m. I wake up out of a dead sleep. No Placebo here. I woke about a dead sleep rock-hard erection. Yep soap so hard so hard that it was. It's like my body you if you if you had the right kind of hearing which humans don't but [01:13:00] dogs. Do you would have heard your penis saying to you? Thank you so much.

[01:13:05] Ha ha ha ha. Thank you for eating that me last night dude. Yeah. Yeah. It was I couldn't believe it because. You know, it's easy to Placebo yourself while you're while you're awake. But when you're at it when you come out of a dead sleep, it's like poop who's there to provoke that you know, so I was I was ecstatic.

[01:13:30] I was very happy about that. And since then it's been steadily improving and I say now I would say I'm totally back to normal. So I want I want to talk about something because we make jokes about libido and erections and sexuality all the time, but but let me let me just overlay some evolutionary science for you.

[01:13:47] From an evolutionary perspective. We have only one job as a species and that is to continue the species and that means having sex and having Offspring. Yep when you're doing [01:14:00] things.  That are telling your body that the environment is hostile like high stress or that the environment is not supporting of offspring.

[01:14:14] Like starving yourself on a vegan diet.  You lose your libido for a reason because your body has safety mechanisms built into it that is telling you you're saying to yourself. We can't find enough food to feed ourselves. How could we bring Offspring into the world and. So the body shuts down the sex hormones as a precautionary measure to keep you from having a baby because you obviously can't make it on your own.

[01:14:47] How are you going to have a baby and support that nutritionally building the baby for women and and and then raising the baby for both men and women. So when anything I told I was I did Tom bill you show recently a [01:15:00] healthier. And I said anything that improves libido is good for your body anything that that removes eliminates libido is bad for your body.

[01:15:11] That is an evolutionary edict. Don't ever get that wrong.  I couldn't agree more and I think that it's it swept under the rug in the vegan Community very sadly. So. And I'd like to give an anecdote story from a friend a female friend of mine and this could help out your female viewers, perhaps please so this this young girl beautiful girl.

[01:15:36] She's 24. She's from England. So I ended up meeting her in Hawaii. She told me she has she's a lifelong vegetarian lifelong vegetarian. She had been vegan for about seven years. I've no sorry about five years, okay. She hadn't had a normal period since she was 15 years old. So, you know, she comes of age she gets [01:16:00] her period when she's you know, young 13, 14 15, and then it goes away.

[01:16:04] She couldn't have a period without a hormone patch on her body.  So she turns 24 so that's nine years of not having a regular period She Thinks just something's wrong with her body. So at this point she's five years into veganism and. He goes back to England from Hawaii. She ends up dating his bodybuilder guy.

[01:16:24] He's like, you know, you need more protein. You should be eating animal products while the ball, you know, giving her the whole thing. She's like no no. No, I'm not going to do that. She ends up getting very weak. She's losing energy. She gets blood tested. It's showing she's extremely extremely severely anemic.

[01:16:40] Yeah. Sure.  so she goes she's at the she's at the end and I personally worked with this girl we.  We chronometer her diet. To a tee. Like I don't know if you're if you know what cronometer is basically punch. It's like MyFitnessPal you punching right? Dude, it tells you yeah, all that stuff right back to everything we made sure we made sure she had full [01:17:00] protein profile.

[01:17:01] We made sure she had full iron calcium all the micronutrients covered. It did not matter. She could not absorb those nutrients. So what happened was she goes anemic the doctor says hey you could literally be looking at. If you don't fix this problem, so she goes. Okay. Well, I'm going to give up my lifelong vegetarian status and I'm going to try out fish and eggs.

[01:17:28] And that's that's actually great because Pesci OVO vegetarians have very very long life spans. I think it's very it's a very clean way to eat if you're going to be if you're going to be a meat eater and you still think you need. A lot of vegetables in your diet. You want to remain kind of like half vegan then get fish and eggs in there anything that's gonna help you out a lot bingo.

[01:17:51] So tell me about so she starts eating fish and eggs ahead three week then she gets her period back. [01:18:00] And just to Full Cup sizes back in her breast which she had lost over time as a vegan show because there's no estrogen stimulating the growth of that tissue. That's that's yeah. This is brilliant.

[01:18:10] This is such a great story especially for women out there struggling with being vegan and having other issues. A lot of the issues you may have may actually be from nutrient deficiencies and during the beginning of the show. I talked about iron overload. And with the growing red meat consumption some of us like myself we are high absorbers.

[01:18:36] I'm on testosterone therapy too. So I ended up being my friend. My ferritin levels almost three times higher than the high right now. So I'm going to do some phlebotomy. I used to donate blood all the time, but I haven't done it in about a year and a half and this is coming coming home to roost for me, but I want to just mention something to the vegans out there.

[01:18:54] If you're listening to this show and you're hating me. And you're hating Drew. Here's something good to know. [01:19:00] If you're going to be vegan. You must take high doses of Vitamin C because high doses of Vitamin C especially taking it with the meal will allow your body to absorb the non-heme iron better from vegetables.

[01:19:12] So you won't end up anemic vitamin C can save you from anemia if you insist on this silly diet, but I just wanted to mention that I also I mentioned you mentioned about getting blood. I heard from a phlebotomist. They said typically speaking the people who go into give blood and then are not able to give blood because their iron levels are too low are typically begins always always so they think they're they expect that.

[01:19:40] It's like if your iron smelting are you vegan? They're like, yeah. Okay. Well, you can't you do, you know, that's that's the reason and. See you later. You can't give you can't donate blood anymore. So bye-bye. So anything any guide that does these things he was not good. I wish people would just get that through their head.

[01:19:56] Now. I am also not espousing.  [01:20:00] A lifelong carnivore die where all you eat is red meat you need as Drew mentioned organ meat is very very important. But more importantly be flexible fish eggs chicken. Pork beef turkey eat them. All eat them all because the reality is that eating exclusively red meat while you can sustain it for a while.

[01:20:29] It's probably just as dumb as eating only vegetables. We're not designed for that. We're not designed for that. I've got a question for you Carl. Sure. With your knowledge and your experience would you say because I'm currently under the impression. I'm the theory is that basically humans and ruminants AKA towels and those type of animals are biologically basically, that's our food by Design would you say that's kind of pretty [01:21:00] pretty accurate.

[01:21:00] No, I wouldn't because you have to understand something.  um. The only thing that it was is our food by Design is human breast milk. Nothing else. Nothing else. Nothing in nature has been created to be food for humans than human breast milk and we can get into the whole, you know is drinking milk after being a baby appropriate that that's a whole nother discussion.

[01:21:27] I don't want to get into but yeah short of human breast milk.  We have adapted everything else. To be food. How did we do that over 1.8 million years, we've eaten things and it didn't kill us. And so we thought okay, I can eat that. A lot of people died eating a lot of things that didn't end up being acceptable foods for us.

[01:21:49] I mean grain isn't food for us, but it could sustain life during a famine actually granted a horrible choice of food for us. But so when you look at [01:22:00] these things, I mean woolly mammoth was probably a great food for us. That's why they're extinct today because they were slow moving and they were dumb and we were able to kill them and eat them for months.

[01:22:11] So really there's no nothing.  in the world.  Is food for us by Design other than human breast milk everything else we've adapted now with that being said are there some food? That make some choices that make better food choices for us. Absolutely and we've been talking about that all this whole show and that's why this whole notion that you know, the problem that I have with the vegan diet is I'll do a vegan diet for two weeks.

[01:22:41] Give my digestive system a shock because chances are throughout Evolution. Our ancestors did that they couldn't find an animal they had a they weren't going to starve they started eating plants. But there were no plants to eat during the 40,000 years of Ice Age.  There's no class need [01:23:00] anywhere. I mean, I tell people this all the time I say, okay, you're a nature-loving vegan.

[01:23:03] You can't all the time you do this and that when was the last time you ever stumbled across an edible patch of food? That would actually feed you for even one meal.  What like where can you go an entire North America? Were you can roll any Renault stroll through any of the planes or any of the forests and actually find one calories worth of meals?

[01:23:29] Well, they may exist, but we don't know it anymore. Right? If it's not a Kroger shelf. We don't know it's food anymore. I'm saying, you know, go go to Yosemite National Park in the true Wilderness and. The most you're going to stumble across is maybe one plants worth of berries. Yes, like 30 calories.

[01:23:48] Right? Right. So nowhere. So this is my point is that I lived in Hawaii. And yes, you can find wild coconut trees and [01:24:00] wild banana trees, but beyond that you're not going to have a lot of people think that there's like this fruit Utopia out there that. But it does not exist. I mean, I agree with Robin coconuts for a probably an extended period of time but though it does not have a full nutrient profile by any means.

[01:24:20] I mean that stupid to even argue to say that just coconut and just bananas can give you a full nutrient profile. I mean even eating cooked vegan food with all the you know, all the beans and all the other processed foods in the world. I couldn't maintain a full nutrient profile. So, how can you think that.

[01:24:37] Eating food from nature. That's assuming you can even get enough calories to just not starve to death. And that's where Australia pisacas grass field turned to eating meat. Obviously, they must have been starving and they thought well, you know, I've I ask this question to dr. Daniel Lieberman the author of the story of the human body once when he was on my show and I said I actually asked him.

[01:24:58] When do you think we started [01:25:00] cooking meat and he thought about if they said I don't know maybe after a forest fire. We came across a dead animal and we ate it. We thought wow that tastes a lot better than when it when we eat it raw. Yeah. My research has said that we've been cooking for about a million years.

[01:25:16] Yeah, so, you know because we have evidence of fires in caves with bones next to it so we know for sure that we've been at least starting fires and cooking stuff for a million years who knows how advanced our technology was at the time. But anyway. Tell me about it. Who was the first who is the first person who says, you know, if we burn this a taste better at I mean what like that's why I said well that makes sense.

[01:25:37] Like after lightning strikes a forest fire dead animal. It's been roasted basically, you know, and you go and you eat and you go wow, this tastes so much better than raw we should do this all the time. So maybe that happened a million years ago, right totally I and I got to get back to what I asked you about the the ideal food.

[01:25:55] Yes, please said. I want to know so there's guys on [01:26:00] YouTube guy named Frank Stefano. He talks about how basically the cow is sort of like the most ideal food. Right? So what I want to know from you is if you were to eat just cow. Like let's say you're eating the the mussel mussel meat. Yeah and the liver or in organs and all the other all the other stuff.

[01:26:20] Do you think that that alone? Good, not just the saying it would make you 5 I actually I actually put a mem up two years ago that says that beef is the only super food. Everything else is you know, oh, this chia seed is superfood. No beef is the only super food. In existence why because if you ate it for every meal every day for the rest of your life, you would Thrive and people people want to challenge to go.

[01:26:47] Oh, that's bull. No. Let me let me give you an example where not the first group to realize that the Vikings new. The Chinese Navy knew it, you know the Chinese Navy when we were put in [01:27:00] canned vegetables and everybody was dying of scurvy. They were bringing cows on board and raising them and slaughtering them and eating beef they never got scurvy and why is that because there's vitamin C and muscle meat.

[01:27:12] Yep, mother vitamin C in fresh meat and there's even more of it in the organs the offal right? You answer you answer my question. Thank you. That that is all yeah. No. Yeah, could you eat it for the rest of your life? Absolutely live and you're saying yes, absolutely and there are things that you probably have to do to maintain and I would imagine that populations that did eat a lot more red meat.

[01:27:35] They genetically didn't morph into better absorbers of iron because they were getting a constant influx of iron every single day, you know one pound. Of beef has eleven point seven milligrams of iron in it. So for the past year, I've been eating about 2 pounds of beef a day, huh? And I happen to have the genetic disposition to absorb [01:28:00] iron better.

[01:28:00] So, I'm actually an iron overload right now. Okay, so that's why you have to give blood to see actually get iron out of your blood give blood also interestingly enough. The only way to truly excrete other than using chelating agents, which they exist. I talked about him through in the first half of the show.

[01:28:15] I want to go over it again, but one of the things I missed during the first half of the show is distance Runners are always anemic no matter how much meat they eat. So there seems to be an ability to do cardio and balance out your iron stores. Okay, interesting, maybe oxygen. Well, I don't we can theorize about that later.

[01:28:37] But yeah, and I've been thinking about it. Like I have a feeling that when you do cardio it may be that. It may be that there could be some sort of porosity to certain organs with blood transfer actually passes through and somehow the iron ends up in the urinary tract. That's the only thing I can think of I have to [01:29:00] believe it has something to do with the kidneys because you know, when your when your heart's pumping a hundred 60 beats a minute for two hours.

[01:29:07] Yeah. There's a there's a lot of blood moving through the kidneys. And so I have a funny feeling that the kidneys and the liver somehow allow the iron to pass and it could be a failure of the kidneys and the liver to process all that fluid could be.  What about just simple oxygenation in the bloodstream like having so much extra oxygen in the bloodstream?

[01:29:28] Couldn't that attach to and perhaps destroy or oxygenate in some way the. The iron that's a good point. It could it could actually change the iron maybe it oxidizes the iron and the iron is a blue that Kate them. Yeah, it could be it could but then but that's another way to control your your your your stored ferritin levels.

[01:29:48] And that is to do more cardio, which I haven't been doing it again. No because II have surgery scheduled for next next month. I've had this I crushed my foot a couple years ago and [01:30:00] cardio became very very arduous for me to do. I do bicycle cardio, but you know how much of that can you do? Right.

[01:30:05] Yeah, I got the whole cycling thing as a vegan because I had just this endless energy. But you know, I was relying on sugar to get me through those sessions constantly and eating even more calories and even worse digestion. So so what would you say to people right now that aren't hating you but they're thinking, you know, maybe there's something due to this.

[01:30:24] What would you suggest to them? Especially if they've been vegans for so long and they don't like red meat you say they try fishing eggs first. Yeah, I'd say I'd say if you're willing to try some animal products, you know go for the fish and egg go for eggs like that. Honestly could fix the problem right there.

[01:30:43] And I want to make a very strong point here is a lot of the vegans I'll point to places like the blue zones that have this really long lifespan and they make they make the mental. From these communities being [01:31:00] predominantly keyword predominantly vegan / vegetarian. They're not actually vegan. They're just High plant-based eaters.

[01:31:09] They're not actually vegan. So what the vegans are doing is they're saying oh look, they're eating ninety percent of their calories from plant Foods there for 100 percent of calories from plant Foods is even better. No that is not that is not how science works. That 10% of calories people don't realize how crucial that five or ten percent of calories from animal products might be in terms of nutrients and balancing the rest of your body out like five percent of calories on a three thousand calorie diet is a hundred and fifty calories, right?

[01:31:42] So that's like two or three eggs a day like that. That's a significant amount of animal food that you could be adding into your diet. That is then counterbalancing. All of the the anti-abortion that you got going on throughout the plant Foods, right? So I want to say to the to the [01:32:00] vegans is don't ignore your results.

[01:32:02] I want to tell you that I lived in Hawaii for two full years with a community of vegans. Great. Most of them are great people. I moved there to get closer to the vegan Community. I wanted to see what I imagine. What I envisioned was. I was going to show up on the doorstep there. And I was going to show up and I was going to be around a community of like holy floating fairies that were all just amazed and jobs on life that were just such healthy beings and what I found out was over a short period of time was that I was actually the healthiest one there and what I mean by that is I ate more than most people calorie-wise eight more protein than they did.

[01:32:42] They all made fun of me. Oh, you're the Bro protein eating vegan. But but then again I had better performance and they did. I had I was leaner than most of them. I just had less issues overall and I ate a wider variety of foods. A lot of them were so myopic and what they would eat they were [01:33:00] so focused on eating a lot of raw foods and a lot of this stuff and most of them are supplementing on everything from magnesium to zinc to pretty much all kinds of stuff and just struggling to create these concoctions in order to.

[01:33:17] Fill out the nutritional deficiencies that they have rather than saying. Hey, you know this so-called amazing natural diet for me. The vegan diet is not actually providing those nutrients to me in its base form at whereas me now. I'm not even taking protein powders and I can still make more games than I did on the vegan diet when I was eating protein powders.

[01:33:36] So I guess what I would say is, you know, just don't don't ignore the results look at the results. Look at them objectively. Look around you at the other vegans. Do they have results. My my observation is that most of them do not have good results, but see but it is that interesting. They don't have good results, but they refused to abandon the diet which tells me [01:34:00] I keep coming back to this and I know that someone's going to be insulted by me saying this but it's like isn't that the sine of like, you know, nothing Mental Illness, but.

[01:34:12] Like if you're if you're doing something and you're getting sicker and sicker the deeper you go into it wouldn't you say it's not working and let me change unless there's something in your brain and your mind and the way you look at things. That's that's incorrect.

[01:34:33] Yes, I would I would be the reason I say this is because I didn't want to bring this up but in 2013 or 2015 Psychology today covered a study and the study was why do vegans have greater mental illness than omnivores is actually a study out there. Nobody likes to talk about especially the vegan Community like to talk about.

[01:34:58] And the study [01:35:00] postulated three reasons it said.  That V that people turn to the vegan diet because they already have mental illness and they're trying to like get their feel better. They're trying to feel better. That's a bad complete bullsh. Okay? Okay. I know and we know that the other one is because the diet is so nutrient deficient that it causes the brain not to work, right?

[01:35:26] And the third one was that that the people who tend to be vegan also hypochondriacs, but but but it didn't matter like like even look you and I can say no it's not that one. It's not that one the bottom line of the study was that they didn't overtly say was that vegans tend to have mental illness.

[01:35:48] Omnivores and the general population and the you got to ask yourself, whether it's whether it's the diet causing it or you're searching out the diet because you have issues. The [01:36:00] vegan diet is associated with bad mental outcomes, right?  And I didn't know anybody that had those specific issues, but I probably know more vegans than the majority of.

[01:36:16] If keyboard Warriors, you see on the internet that are like you're doing it wrong and they're sitting there in Ohio or something in a basement where they don't know another single vegan in their entire life yet. I moved to Fruitopia Hawaii with a vegan community and people are telling me that I did it wrong that that for some reason I'm not vegan enough and I think that mentality is what's really harming people because they don't want to look at any of it objectively and then as soon as you throw any facts in the way.

[01:36:44] Or any logic then they say well the animals the environment and you're like, well, what does that have to do with Optimal Health, you know that just because we have 7 billion people on the planet. I'm sorry, but that's that's not my concern right now, you know, we can figure out the [01:37:00] environmental stuff.

[01:37:00] I'm not trying to destroy the environment. But what I'm saying is let's get the help in line first. So then we're strong enough and we have the mental capacity and the energy to actually go for all those of the problem because it's right now it's not salt. You know, yeah plug your plug your YouTube channel again.

[01:37:18] Yes, sir at youtube.com forward slash Drew morgue Dr. E. WM o RG and I'll make sure I put it in today's right up for the show. When at the podcast Publishers tomorrow drill, man. I really appreciate you coming on talking about this because a lot of people there's a lot of people out there today.

[01:37:39] Who were vegan and switched but they're afraid to talk about it because literally they're afraid that vegans are going to come after them and like just roll them and and and break their chops because it's almost like a religion now, it's like you if you're saying oh, no, you know, I was Catholic but now I'm going to be Protestant the Catholics are going dude, you suck.

[01:37:57] You know, you're you're no good and it's [01:38:00] like look, It's the way a person eats don't take it. So seriously, like why do you feel threatened? Because someone else doesn't want to eat the way you do unless you're not completely convinced that it's good for you either right? So thank you for watching.

[01:38:14] Yep. Thank you, man. Take care. All right here Carl. Thanks for having me on okay, and that's it for today's show. I hope you got something good out of it, especially the first half hour. About iron overload keep an eye on your iron and age better take some of the Tactics get your ferritin tested and stay superhuman will see you tomorrow with more supremum radio.

[01:38:37] Thank you for listening [01:39:00] today.

{/spoiler}