Nelson Vergel
Nelson Vergel's contributions to the beneficially therapeutic and life-changing effects of anabolic drugs is enormous. It is undeniable that his early writings about the medical uses of anabolic steroids, nutrition and physical culture extended and even saved the lives of tens of thousands of terminally ill men. So what has he learned from his journey? And what has he changed his mind about?
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[00:00:00] Welcome back to another episode of superhuman radio and we are delivering a fantastic show. Today. We're going to have Nelson Virgil on the show. What has he learned from over 30,000 men before we get started on that interview. I have to plug our. Title sponsor All [00:01:00] American pharmaceutical and EFX sports right now, you get six of their top selling products absolutely free.
[00:01:04] Go to superhuman radio dotnet click the EFX Sports Banner ad get started there because dr. Jeff believes. No one should buy anything until they've tried it and he puts his money where his mouth is Nelson Virgil has probably contributed more to the therapeutic uses of anabolic drugs. In terminally ill men than any other single individual in the world.
[00:01:32] He actually is the guy through one of his early writings that he wrote with Michael Mooney built to survive that showed men who was suffering from Aids HIV that they didn't have to die and wither away and many of those men are still alive today and Nelson Virgil is one of those people. How you doing?
[00:01:53] No. And they will call thanks a lot for having me. You know, I really meant to have you on the show for a very [00:02:00] long time, but it's one of those things where when Mike Anthony finally reached out and said, you know, let's have Nelson on the shows like yeah, I actually found that old message where I did reach out to you a couple years ago to try to have you on the show, but you're in great demand and I understand that I'm glad that you're here today.
[00:02:17] So for those people who don't know. Anything about your Beginnings, let's just spend a little bit of time about your journey what happened 30 years ago that made you start thinking more about the things that you write about today. Yeah, yeah. Thanks Carl. I'm thanks a lot for the kind words by the way.
[00:02:38] Yeah, I'm from Venezuela immigrated to United States in 84 in the middle of the CEO of start of a horrible horrible time. When would even know what the bug was that was killing a lot of young men and not only killing them by wasting them away into bones, you know and found out myself a year later [00:03:00] after I moved here that I had a.
[00:03:02] So I be positive for over 34 years and and most of my friends back then were dying of wasting. I had to bury over 35 of my friends that were basically dining bones. And as I started losing weight myself I said there is a way there must be a way to reverse this wasting syndrome and wasting basically what's caused by the immune dysfunction and you sit and reading all the nutrients that come for the immune cells.
[00:03:32] CD4 cells rdy from muscle mass believe it or not from the glutamine specifically that we stored in muscle mass. So I was you know, I started reading all the bodybuilding magazines and obviously I sell all these guys know what they're doing. We're wasting away. They're getting muscle, right and I started I started obviously working on very, you know on doing the using testosterone and alone oxandrolone to [00:04:00] improve reverse the wasting syndrome.
[00:04:02] Jay 35 pounds. I had lost by 25 already and became basically convinced of this was the way to go and put together a program. I'm non-profit agency that I created and the power program was what call back then and you remember probably cousin for you to say Village, but they would you have internet and then obviously it actually we had good fax machine.
[00:04:27] So that's how I started my work Saxon doctors my programs all over the country. That's how he got spread out and then I met Michael Mooney who was an amazing amazing person that helped me with a part of the research to and we and we published be able to survive and obviously I saved myself from wasting I was alive.
[00:04:48] For 96 97 when the drugs came in and that we did the job saving everybody else. But really I think I was able to buy time and all my friends and all the people following my [00:05:00] program but time to be here for the new treatment. So yeah, I'm I'm having either and I know you see what's not all about anabolic hormones, but also nutrition exercise right there some supplementation.
[00:05:11] But yeah, I was I was convinced. So I became that what I'm a chemical engineer, but I left my career, too. Pursue this but that became this was my my life mission and as time went by obviously HIV got better and thank God because that was a horrible horrible disease and and I started realizing I was getting emails from hiv-negative guys and go to straight guys a lot of you know, he also do I have to be hiv-positive for you to help me out man Ryan I said, well, you know, wow, do you know there's they said a lot of meat out there.
[00:05:43] So I transition to Men's Health and created the the side called Excel mail.com and wrote another book called testosterone immense guide and basically that's what I'm doing. Now. I'm basically focusing on General Men's Health and obviously combining [00:06:00] hormones and nutrition exercise and supplementation.
[00:06:02] So and in fact, there was some there were some scenes in the. Was it the Dallas Buyers Club with Matthew McConaughey where they actually referred to some of the things that you were teaching back then about the use of anabolic steroid. They were going to Mexico to get Deca durable and stuff like that for some of these these guys and and you know, it's amazing, you know.
[00:06:25] I know doctor Moll depasquale wrote the preface for your book and he's been a frequent guest on the show since its in fact, he was my very first guest in 2005 of the very first show I ever did well Marshall started coming on my show probably about five years ago when coining the term the an abalone.
[00:06:45] Did you know that that that remaining anabolic for as long as you can is the key to longer healthier life and a lot of people have ignored that but you showed that in fact, that's the case [00:07:00] especially with these terminally ill men that was suffering from cachexia muscle wasting and wasting away and dying as a result of that as a secondary effect of the intrinsic.
[00:07:11] Portion of the disease and that's pretty astonishing to me that the medical offered oxy was slow to catch on to your work where they not. Yeah. Yeah, but you know, I was very lucky man. I was able I was invited to be part of a national health needs basic. You have National Health NIH protocols. I mean, he's research community and I pushed for anabolic research.
[00:07:36] So we had a lot of studies done on the use of data durable and and and wasting or sign along which is Hannah bar and wasting the first testosterone jails and all those products came. Which I be so green HIV was the foundation of a lot of their hormone therapies. Men are using now. I mean we think about it when you have [00:08:00] a very different high risk benefit ratio, people are dying.
[00:08:03] Anyways, the government actually approved the studies because it well what the heck, you know, there's nothing to lose these guys are going to die. So obviously that data we have if you Google HIV wasting or HIV night alone, you'll see I mean, they're over 18 studies that I was able to. Push with taxpayer money that actually proved that anabolics were safe and actually so, you know improve survival because HIV so that was the best part of my work the fact that I was not alone, you know wolf out there preaching to the unconverted but really I was able to work with the government and that really made a difference.
[00:08:40] So what were you a fan of physical culture before becoming sick did you know did you know that all you weren't? No, I was I was a thing guy from South America never never really care about how he muscles. I really have no no interest whatsoever. You know, I was just a fitness guy, you know, and no not at [00:09:00] all.
[00:09:00] So obviously the side effects of using my program is that I got muscular. And I still am I'm 60 years old now and you know, if your life playing God and there's very few of us from that era by the way, but you know, I am now really like it. I like the way I feel all I would they look so it completely shift in my mentality and obviously now I'm a little bit of have a little bit of PTSD, you know, because I don't associate being thin.
[00:09:27] Within sake so obviously a lot of Us carry that obviously we never whatever you said, but you know, but it's interesting because and I know you're talking about because when you start to get really lean, I remember when there was one point in my life when I turned 50, actually I was probably at my leanest I was striated I.
[00:09:49] I was getting to that point where I was starting to get ripped and I remember people saying to me people who quote unquote cared about me. She I hope you don't get any skinnier and it's funny because people [00:10:00] equate a lack of subcutaneous fat with the lack of health and they discount the importance of muscle mass as an organ and as important issue for the body.
[00:10:13] I mean when I first started doing my show I used to say. Muscle is metabolic currency. So get into the gym and make a deposit today and I believe that to this time 60 like you I just turned 60 this year. And so it's but it's funny how somebody could say gee you look skinny and meanwhile, you're carrying a hundred and thirty a hundred forty hundred fifty pounds of solid muscle.
[00:10:35] You just don't have any subcutaneous fat the equate that to skin. Yeah, yeah, especially in my world because we not only had wasting but then when the medications came in they caught something called lipoatrophy, which is the loss of fat Under the Skin So people had very severely wasted faces and buttocks and even though their uses the was getting better.
[00:10:58] They drugs were eating away [00:11:00] the sap attendance Fatso in my world having lots of potatoes fact is is equated with like will atrophy which. Toxic side effect of several drugs had thank God we no longer have in the market. But yeah, there is kind of strange how some communities look at body dysmorphia body shape, but in my world that being muscular means sous vide.
[00:11:25] Obviously there is a balance, you know you there's such a thing as having to high of BMI and blood pressure are occasions and red blood cells and we can talk about that side effects side of hormones and and the things I have learned with the guys. Well, yeah, I want to there's some things I want to get into I want I want to start off by asking you the exact question when I said to you when we were planning the show, what do you most passionate about you said what 30,000 men have taught me.
[00:11:53] So give. Me the Reader's Digest version give me the distillation what have working with 30,000 [00:12:00] men and and not and not just for vanity like bodybuilders, but to who to save their lives through the expression of muscle and and physical fitness. What has that taught? Yeah, yeah, that's a hard one to distill.
[00:12:15] But yeah, there's so many lessons. I you know, I was I was I was coming for a world and HIV where people are following. My advice is always because I was ahead of the game but he comes to being an early adopter. I'm one of those obviously it take more risks than more people, but when I entered them into Health world and Excel mail.com is mostly.
[00:12:37] It's a sexual, you know, man would have kids or you know, good job. So, you know, they're just really into educating themselves. I learned a lot I learned obviously in my game and I learned a lot about the different issues that heterosexual man. Are dealing with not only in their sexual lives in their in their family lives, obviously a lot of have kids and [00:13:00] they average men that they have shouldn't generalize but a good friend to be honest about their health issues and discuss them like specially when he comes with sexual dysfunction when he comes to low libido he comes to even depression.
[00:13:18] Those are subject matters are not brought up in discussions among Frank, right especially there's have sexual war and they World We have dealt with a horrible disease that opened us up to communicating better with each other with those other you that was our way to cope. So I learned a lot about porristas a lot of guys online obviously and I'm an online are looking at always searching.
[00:13:42] There there The Seekers there are ones that are are. They may or may not have a doctor. But obviously they know that doctors don't know at all and they're seeking for answers when it comes to fatigue when it comes to sexual [00:14:00] function when it comes to you name. It muscle mass energy for the Peabody.
[00:14:04] We are now going through a time where there's more pressure to to for to perform and I same time we are sleeping. Less. We are more. The style we have more obviously stressors from the political world out there all the stuff and happening. So I see the suffering of men out there that are searching and the first thing that they're searching folder is for a good doctor doctor listens to them.
[00:14:32] And that's one of the hardest things. I tell people from obviously my experience that the relationship you have with your dog course, probably one of the most important relationships. You ever have besides your wife your boyfriend your girlfriend, whatever your kid because that person can make your life better or can make your life worse.
[00:14:53] So I try to empower dies or with what to talk to their doctors about how to. I'm actually creating [00:15:00] a cycle to your key finders a directory of doctors that I trust doctors that are progressive at our cutting-edge. They actually prescribing things that would call off label and I mean have to explain what of label means of label prescriptions mean a drug is already approved by the FDA for a certain use but they can legally approved prescribed for other uses.
[00:15:22] You know when there is a little bit of data here and there. So they regular physician of very it's not very good at off-label squared, but they Progressive ones are thinking ahead and legally do yourself on using off-label prescription. So I educate doctors patients and Pat what how to approach a doctor because you can turn off a doctor really fast if you do not deliver the message.
[00:15:46] Well session in the first visit, I really think the first visit is like a dating game, you know, it's almost as important as a good first date because that doctor will actually make a an impression of you [00:16:00] whether or not you were smart guy educated guy or whether you're really too headstrong and turn them off.
[00:16:08] So, yeah, it's a very fine line. First of all, it's a fine line trying to find a doctor. So guys usually post on Excel male. Hey, you know, I mean. Yo, you guys knowing darker. So we easily help them out. There's other things that are popping up that I really happy about in the United States and its legal is they use of telemedicine.
[00:16:28] So telemedicine is becoming stronger, especially when it comes to Men's Health. Most of them are obviously Cash basis, but usually is Affordable for most men and they can Access healthcare from anywhere no matter if you're in a tight little town which usually you know, Access to care is a little more difficult there, but you can access it grew angry and now and there was just a new deal signed three weeks ago that that actually he's more freedom to telemedicine clinics.
[00:16:59] So I'm very happy [00:17:00] to see that so it access to care access to education. Obviously. I tell me I'm very proud of it. I think it's is highly moderated. I don't know anything. The priests are posted there that has no data Bro Science is great. That's how I learned about wasting. Basically brought signs again, but we have a lot of studies now, so I don't like loud too much of discussions and things that are just, you know, General opinions.
[00:17:24] But so anyways, let's go back to access. So access to the doctor. Hopefully, my new director is popping up soon trt finder just come will help and I know it's cold here T, but it's usually if we access to most even Primary Care. That's just to Diagnostics, you know, a lot of doctors a lot of patients don't know that you can get your own block work without seeing a doctor in that can give you a lot of access to your health before you spend a lot of money or time this thing a doctor.
[00:17:57] So I created the standard laptop. [00:18:00] Which is a lowest cost provider of blood tests around the country that you can buy online and not need to see a doctor. So I practiced my mission is improving access to education access to treatment access to Diagnostics and that access to to automation information here information here peer-based.
[00:18:21] I mean, there are 50,000 men chatting all day can get a little overwhelming but I do I do I think I packaged a formation. It's a way that they can access it. It can be overwhelming as you well know what trying to search for info but I've learned a lot. I've learned about that the disclosure people are suffering quietly and needlessly they don't talk to their friends or they don't reach out.
[00:18:44] So being online is actually a great thing because most guys are sitting in their underwear or their show. Not having to dump any by the biggest high question. So I think that the internet has helped a lot when it comes to to access to [00:19:00] everything. So I'm trying to maximize that as you are. Yeah. I mean you're one of the Pioneers when it comes to access to information.
[00:19:07] Thank you. I want to take a break when we come back. I want to talk about a couple things since you mentioned off label. I love off-label stuff and I do a lot of research and I do a lot of shows about off-label uses of things. I'd like to come back and I'd like to talk about the emergence of peptides and their role in this discussion of longevity and health span at but also, Wrap a logs which are an interesting class of of drugs.
[00:19:38] That seemed to modulate and attenuate the immune system, and now they are leading to lots of longevity research. But but more importantly I want to Circle back around when we talk about rapid logs and talk about autoimmune disorder for a second question since rap along seemed to put the immune system to sleep in order to allow people to live [00:20:00] longer.
[00:20:01] What does that mean for HIV, you know what? I mean? So let's do this. Let's take one quick commercial break. We'll be right back with some interesting discussions with Nelson Virgil stay tuned. You're listening to superhuman radio because you're smart. Welcome back. We're talking with Nelson Virgil.
[00:20:18] His website is XL mail, excl mail.com. Check it. So I'm I would imagine that you all have been looking at peptides as a new emerging tool in Your Arsenal am I correct? Yeah. Yeah. I actually have a whole folder section on Excel mail on peptides ceremonial and you know IBM or and. GH R P2 which uh rp6 I feel more Island.
[00:20:48] Yeah, we can talk about it if you want. Well, it's also what I'm more interested in is there some really exotic ones that we've done shows about and like thymosin alpha 1 which is an immune system [00:21:00] effective and it's an antiviral powerful anti viral it seems to I've actually had people who've listened to the show I did with dr.
[00:21:09] William seeds on thymosin Alpha 1. Who had an outbreak of shingles and it was gone in three days and that's rare and I people have used it for the flu. But also there's a new one. We're about to do a show on called LL 3 7 and LL 3 7 seems to be an antibiotic type antimicrobial very powerful peptide that seems to be able to actually.
[00:21:40] Effectively reverse infections gram-negative bacteria stuff like that. Have you looked at any of these yet? Are you seeing any literature on that? Oh, no, not at all actually obviously right a little bit here and there but no I think with the ones that are. Available via compounding compounding pharmacies in the United States.
[00:21:59] So [00:22:00] since you know, I'm one of those guys are very Progressive obviously, you've heard an open-minded, but I'm also very conservative and very scared to put things in my body that are from sources that I do not obviously. I know about and obviously I'm not a rich man that can send a sample to a lab for analysis, right that's that's usually very hard to do.
[00:22:24] So I am very very careful what I inject into my body obviously having you suppression still because of HIV only have like what I write so I tend to stick with peptides or even products that we are. There be solving United States by people. I know compounding pharmacy that I know and that, you know, we have some data from pharmaceutical companies or something.
[00:22:48] Some of these products were abandoned due to several issues by mostly economics. So they're still available also label through company so I know a little bit [00:23:00] about MK 6 7 7 which is IB or more. Siren wailing which is a growth along releasing hormones. If I'm reeling all these all these products are actually available to you know, and pharmacies like Empower farmers in Houston, which they ship everywhere so that unfortunately, I'm not the man to talk about the more experimental more Cutting Edge peptides because as I said, they usually come from sources that obviously are not FDA approved.
[00:23:26] So I don't know these are these are available these are available through compounding pharmacist the thymus and Alpha one right now is available. Okay, let's move past that are you have you seen any of the emerging research on Rapa logs like like rapamycin? No, okay. What are your thoughts on that?
[00:23:44] We don't especially cuz these kind of interact with the immune system, which I think would be fascinating to you. Yeah, yeah, rapamycin. There's actually some data on HIV because we have what we call immunize deviation. Our immune system is actually to [00:24:00] activated too busy and that causes obviously not only inflammation everywhere but accelerated aging which we do have in my world.
[00:24:10] So Robin Mason is is a like you said wrap a log that. It's an inhibitor of mtor any basically slows down the energy production in mitochondria and people would say well, why would you do that? You know it actually on this data that shows that what mtor Inhibitors can actually improve longevity in diabetes.
[00:24:33] We have obviously metformin if you Google make forming Nelson Virgil, you'll see lecture. I gave like a two-hour lecture made for me that meant for me is another one of those I generics over-the-counter kind of. Fear axes medications or medications that could also have some effect on M4 and rep amazing.
[00:24:53] You think Tristan I think about the amazing low doses. Obviously. There's a lot of data out there. Yeah HIV they're looking at [00:25:00] into improving immune function for for HIV any makes sense for autoimmune diseases it does. Autumn you means that you're used to mrs. Hyperactivated or hyper active, but I'm still very careful.
[00:25:13] As I said, we don't conservative the prep amazing and even make Foreman can also slow down. Energy production slowdown me Bender some data or muscle build up on igf-1 So and I've obviously youth both of them and I do have a conflict the conflict is do I take it forming for longevity or what? I lose my my modeling this discussion right now.
[00:25:44] So dr. Vargas Kony has started this protocol that you take you. Myosin one day every two weeks. Just one dose. That's all you take. And yeah, and I'm with you on this right see I've stayed away from that form and I've opted for intimate and [00:26:00] fasting and periodically longer fast to stimulate some of the same things that metformin does but I don't want to shut off mtor because I want to be a big muscle guy.
[00:26:09] You know what I mean? I want to carry my muscle until the day I die because I know that I'll be able to be more engaged in life if I do so, so I'm exactly with you on the fence about that. Metformin thing. Yeah, and for me, you know for me mate free make more sense than anybody because I have a to use this function, but I do I have taken my for me for at least six months and defined that I lost my pump.
[00:26:32] Yeah. Yeah. My I was getting a little more tired. He was amazing for my ideas. I have ideas and my God actually felt the best and most people said well that for me makes me have diarrhea or you schools and if they for me was the other way around I did stop it. I stop there because my fatigue and I do have to say I missed my lost weight you tend to eat a little bit less.
[00:26:56] So there's an appetite suppressant in fact, but and also improve [00:27:00] insulin response actually makes you it's not a bad drug abuse that I was feeling a little rundown and I was really. I went down to a hundred eighty-eight for me. That's like yeah my 200-pounder guy. My58 and I was getting concerned as I said, but hey, that's part of the guys.
[00:27:17] I'd like to be lean and also work with longevity. Hey, why not? And if you're younger to maybe if you're not like me with any means this function that may create issues with fatigue and particular really is my fatigue is my ruling saying that's a thing I have to daily have to. To manage with different treatments and that's we probably my next book will be about fatigue as we get older.
[00:27:44] Our people have different positions, you know? Yeah. No, I'm not I'm dealing with that too. As I do notice fatigue much more. So now that I'm 60, then I did just five years ago. Who and there's a lot to it. You know, I've started to really look at [00:28:00] iron stores to as you know those of us who aren't me?
[00:28:03] I've been on HRT since 2007. And when I did when I when I when I thought of myself more as a powerlifter, I was on much higher Doses and so I've started to connect the dots between storage of iron and tissue and and some of the fatigue and in fact, I started donating blood again and I already feel.
[00:28:27] Yeah, yeah, that's a big problem. I'm seeing around the country. You know, this also replacement is you know, it's a hot subject. I mean a lot of guys are getting on it and seeing believe it or not more and more young guys without testosterone and we can talk about it later if we having done and and I'm also seeing a lot of doctors Miss managing a lot of these guys by not managing their hematocrit, which is the amount of red blood cells in their blood which you noticed also increase.
[00:28:56] Wait Motel production and that leads to increased [00:29:00] viscosity and cardiovascular disease. Although some doctors out there trying to try to fight that concept which will have a lot of data and some extra dial management. There's some issues there to that doctors are not very well trained. So guys are going around without with we take blood with high levels of ferreting and iron and.
[00:29:25] And they decide to give blood to the creature viscosity there hematocrit and they lose a lot of iron in ferritin and they get retire. So there's a fine line right on giving blood to free college. Nobody should be giving blood more than every two months right every two or two and a half weeks and a half and and also you tell people go through this damn it last night, you know, I provide the test really cheap on iron and ferritin just to make sure that you know your iron.
[00:29:53] It's high enough, right because you know what, you know, what here's an interesting thing, you know, ferritin [00:30:00] biosynthesis can be increased without increasing iron, but increasing vitamin C. Which means that if you are like me and you take a gram or two of vitamin C A Day ferritin doesn't tell the whole story when you're thinking about iron, you got to look at transfer today's and you've got to look at direct iron as well.
[00:30:21] And so you got to be careful about ferritin and putting too much trust in it, exclusively as being indicative. You can still you can have low ferritin and still have high tissue iron storage. And that's where the fatigue comes from because the iron throws off a ton of reactive oxygen species, which makes the it's like sticking a potato in your tailpipe and then letting your car run, you know, the mitochondria gets backed up and fouled up and it just doesn't want to work right when there's too much iron stored in cells.
[00:30:52] Yeah, it's a heavy oxidant, you know? Yeah, not very good for the liver to there's a heavy heavy heavy oxidant. So yeah. Yeah, I had [00:31:00] to have to remind us of the balance of having normal red blood cell level on testosterone or any anabolic steroid. I mean the groveling any anabolic hormones can ping can increase red blood cells that might have created an iron ferritin and then obviously in getting rid of your blood through the.
[00:31:21] And I made balance you out of that may actually push you over the edge so that and and it's for dial. There's some arguments on its development well want to ask you about I want to but I want to ask you about estradiol when we come. I want to take a break when we come back from the break. I want to ask you both about estradiol and I also want to ask you about I remember reading my very first study probably eight or nine years ago.
[00:31:43] That is all the guys seem not to clear testosterone as fast as the younger guys. So do we have to look at our doses going down a little bit not to get testosterone levels too high. We're talking right now with Nelson Virgil. His website is XL [00:32:00] mail.com. Stay tuned. We'll be right back. Welcome back.
[00:32:08] how to clear my throat my guest today is Nelson. Really pleasure to have them on the show so Nelson. Do you think that some of the HRT clinics are a little too aggressive at suppressing estradiol too much or do you think that they're not aggressive enough? I think that took lessons. Oh, I love you.
[00:32:31] I love I love you Nelson. I love you. That's how I feel about it to okay. Good good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Tell the guys you sides Google estradiol Nelson Virgil. I probably have become the loudest of all, I guess you can call me major Gator out there on the way. That we are facing right now with all these mostly cash clinics out there and some of them are better than others where they're over treating men with an extra Soul which [00:33:00] is imitating whoever I mean their own testosterone and they're only they're over treating them but they're providing this treatment right away when they start testosterone they think about I can talk about this forever.
[00:33:12] I have a lecture to our lecture on YouTube. The thing about estradiol estradiol is a hormone. That sounds obviously like a female hormone estrogen estradiol. Okay, so I can see why men in some doctors freak out about not having having no estrogen in their bodies because usually that gives you a PM s-- you know syndromes and all that they by reasoning behind and the estradiol.
[00:33:42] Testosterone is a precursor of estradiol its release Downstream is the last one of the last hormones in the Cascade. The suffering is not starting with a precursor. Testosterone is there for two reasons to improve obviously sex drive bone density libido mood all. [00:34:00] But it's for thou has other enhancing effect that are needed the social Norm loan cannot do its job.
[00:34:06] He needs to happen this year later a booster of attacks and that estradiol it's Darrell is important for improving bone density. You don't want to have fractures and have low bone density. When you get older cognitive function lipid your HDL or good cholesterol is improved with good estradiol even joint.
[00:34:29] A lot of guys with lost relics are feeling achy. And after having joint problems, we've been penile sensitivities libido. We have good data Placebo controlled data on the fact that the lowest survival can completely kill your you're leaving. So this this is crazy crazy clinical bear and I think it all started maybe 15 years ago 10 years ago was an article published in life extension about the dangers of this Virginia, man that really [00:35:00] probably created this this this craze on Obsession on this right now, so I really think I really think I really think excuse me it started with Dan Duchesne.
[00:35:12] You know their dander Shane was the first one that started saying bodybuilders needed to lower their estrogen because he he said estrogen led to adiposity and water retention, but the reality is while estradiol May manipulate minerals in tissue, that could lead to what a deposition. Estradiol is actually Li political.
[00:35:42] It actually rigid body fat and and is even studies out there that show side-by-side dosages of testosterone being given to older men where one group got an aromatase inhibitor and the other one didn't and the one that didn't get the aromatase [00:36:00] inhibitor put on one muscle and and and and got leaner and that's because estradiol is also.
[00:36:08] Anabolic everybody. That's why they give Trend ballon and estradiol benzoate to cows to build more muscle. Yep. Yeah, and that's something that needs. Well, I think it's getting is getting better. We're getting more and more data and people are opening their eyes out. But what's happening to with estradiol is adulterers and still many doctors are using the wrong test.
[00:36:29] They old regular low sensitivity the low sensitivity. Yes. Yeah, so that that overestimates estradiol. So the I provide the sensitive test on this current laptop, which is done by liquid chromatography, which is the most most accurate. Way to measure it. So not only will you notice or meat like notice on blood levels, but also ending on bringing it out to low and yeah, you know, let's talk about highest to though.
[00:36:56] Yeah, there may be some issues with really high and what time. [00:37:00] Depends because all the studies that were done on its the dial back in the day. So that linkage immortality where Donnie men with low testosterone average of three hundred twenty five nanograms and most men on my side on Excel male have at least 700 900 grams of total testosterone.
[00:37:15] They're probably go as high as you know, 1500 in meeting my many cases, so. Different type of species man with itís awesome met with low LH and FSH. We have no none of those hormones because there is a feedback mechanism. It's just down there the production of two hormones we in some of us what we've seen in the data on gynecomastia special to some guy freaked out about Dino and rightly.
[00:37:41] So some people to fear you don't want to have that look of having a. No, I'm pretty sure not only any precise, but the breast tissue under the nipple. And I know only a Pharisee men with low testosterone to estrogen elaboration and you [00:38:00] have in many settings option. You also have to have a heart igf-1 so high growth factors to increase the breast tissue.
[00:38:07] You have to have a genetic predisposition to Dino and you have to have noticed also you have to actually be hyper Bonito. So in some cases I think in bodybuilding what happens with diners going to start showing up when men are getting office I go. They're BCT. Whatever you don't I don't believe me busy people.
[00:38:25] The PCT is best and really bring them up to normal levels of testosterone. That's where the danger zone like when it comes to data from Asia. So, Inessa, so really if you're there giving one milligram twice three times a week, which is great. And that's chosen. That's a lie under yeah a lot. So I you know, most of us are no other doing if this is what they do, they put you in testosterone the beginning they six weeks to eight weeks later the test you again noting that also sensitive estradiol depending on that.
[00:38:53] If you're over like 40 on this road out they bring you living in, you know knots or so at point two five [00:39:00] four point five Max week. In every test you. You know six weeks later. So that's the thing about many men that I've learned 30 thousand and one of the things I learned most men are impatient.
[00:39:12] And obviously we all are I'm one of them. I want fast results and we do not some of us do not have the patience to go through testing retest. Recalibrating those searches that require to get you to not see myself and sometimes we may take six months to optimize yourself not only on hematocrit of iron like you talked about the total free testosterone.
[00:39:36] Make sure your blood pressure is all that takes a while. So when you say the word they're going to feel great right away. Fairness a lot of them do within the first couple weeks feel a change. I mean, I was one of those people, you know, [00:40:00] literally within two weeks. I felt like somebody turned the lights back on in my life, but you're right the long-lasting changes, they take months to accumulate and to see, you know, one of the but getting back to the whole of the overzealous rage against estradiol.
[00:40:20] Um, first of all, estradiol protects exclusively against the development of Parkinson's disease it actually the early research done by a Italian doctor in Toronto showed that rodents given mptp which causes spontaneous parkinsonism, but were infused with estradiol they held off six weeks developing parkinson's-like symptoms when.
[00:40:47] The ones that were just given a saline solution developed it immediately upon infusion of the mptp and and women developed Parkinson's disease at a fractionally lower [00:41:00] rate than men until they go through menopause and then they when they're should dial starts to drop they become vulnerable to it.
[00:41:06] So this idea of suppressing as to dial down to zeros is reckless and my beef with HRT clinics that. That's summarily prescribed to a brand new patient along with their testosterone a prescription for for honest Rizal. I'm like, you don't even know that this guy's a high aromatize her and you're already putting him on a struggle.
[00:41:29] Are you that's reckless in my. Yep, and maybe I would say more than 50% of clinics do that. And I think I'm getting to a point almost getting tired of talking about this. But hey, you know, I guess we have to but the good thing about this and Carl that I like is that we almost every month. There's a new study coming in on x-ray looks like follow its road.
[00:41:50] I'll research it almost every month. We're getting now finally data on estradiol in men with all the benefits. So so the only thing is that [00:42:00] everyone. What what how high is too high? We really don't know don't know because and then I think you gotta I think you got to do sir. I produce a lot of DHT in the face of super physiological testosterone levels, but I don't produce a lot of estradiol when when my my testosterone levels were above.
[00:42:26] My estradiol was 73. That's not that's not high for for that hot. But right now my testosterone will last blood work I did and I've been experimenting with some new. I've been experiencing some things. I want to talk to you offline about back about the actually but II actually my total testosterone was 330 150 my free was 7:45.
[00:42:49] My estradiol was 52 and my my DHT was like 700 and something and so I'm not a guy that should ever see it [00:43:00] an aromatase inhibitor. I just don't have it. I'm not higher on the thighs. No, no, I many people not and a lot of guys out there to that are trying for you since you single Standalone which none of our is a PhD analog we have good data that the HD analogs and EHD self actually blocks the estradiol after to yeah, so, you know, like for people like that because it's approved for additional weight loss due to any illness by the way.
[00:43:30] The only anabolic steroid in the United States approved by the FDA to treat unintentional weight loss due to any illness or family has become very popular out there. It's actually my quarter. We don't have any Supply United States yet compounding pharmacy to make it too but everybody's Embark for the anyway people that take account alone have almost like undetectable estradiol, right?
[00:43:52] They freak out. They know they don't know why they're not taking enough suppose actually a DHD. We also found that like EHD jails actually on the nipple. [00:44:00] Can't we die nicomachean in that they use they use that in Europe then Europe. They have a DHT topical just for Gaia. Yeah. So there's a balance between the AC and it's develop it's not all about this case also the data on the toaster intuition about ratio of over 14 being protective for all this.
[00:44:18] So so, you know the thing I'm having problems with doctors photo one number. At a time when he touches all these hormones have different interactions obviously and they're doing the wrong test it using the old test and they're over prescribing and men are becoming really upset. I mean you should L is the number one profit on Excel mail.com no matter how many videos and make or lectures is someone that they have to complete the whole thing every day and I tell that don't use it until you know, even less notes on a having water retention at the end but my throat.
[00:44:53] This low we have data that shows that one who patiently that's when using testosterone has nothing reactor out has to do [00:45:00] with you know, they the way we clear Corey falls out of our bodies. We increase the body's we have 10 minutes 10 minutes left. I have to ask you to comment on something that's not discussed.
[00:45:09] I remember seeing my first study probably eight years ago that shows that the older we get. The better we are at retaining testosterone instead of flushing it out. This is probably an evolutionary gift because men produce less testosterone. So we want to save more there's less receptors in the liver to carry it out.
[00:45:27] Are you seeing some of your older patients where they've been on for 10 years? Maybe they've been at they were at 250 milligrams a week. Now all of a sudden 250 milligrams a week is putting them up into two thousand nanogram levels instead of 1100 because the older guys into yeah, yeah. Seeing the know the way think what we're seeing is there was these different things because we have I really am going to be really quick and then we have an old-school versus new-school on testosterone and then you school is subcutaneous injections or shallow injections with tiny little syringes are [00:46:00] 27 games half an inch.
[00:46:02] We split those into twice a week instead of once every two weeks or once a week. So we're having less Peaks and valleys in Excel mail, most people use that protocols and you know, it's a. Old Liu bang and we use most of us are only HCG. I do have I'm sorry that I'm bringing you to be so late in the day, but actually for me, it's an amazing product that really enhances the effects of testosterone improves the secure atrophy and improve fertility while you're on testosterone.
[00:46:29] So I tell all these young guys. Hey, you know bring HCG into your protocol because it enhances everything that the cells from does and improves your fertility and also your decision or size. So that's that's one trying in our in Excel Mill guys are actually using smaller doses most frequently with tiny needles not and actually achieving higher blood levels, but because we are Distributing the Distortion better through the week or every two weeks, [00:47:00] but mostly most of us, I'm injecting twice a week, you know, 75 milligrams of testosterone every time I inject plus 500 I use of HCG.
[00:47:08] I have never used an actress or I actually did for him. Penny kill my sex drive and and that's that's what we do. That's a basic basic protocol. They CG, you know we can have another call for that is that they could take forever on the pluses and minuses of HCG, but chronic voting are going out shopping which is you know, obtained by a prescription cheaply through compounding pharmacies, but I'm my next book is called HCG MN sky.
[00:47:38] Because I'm really convinced that if I had known what I know now, but she D 30 years ago. I'd be going to sell some for at least about 30-some years, right? I would I would have started with HCG since day one. So, but anyways, I'm getting worse, but we will continue this conversation and hours to short.
[00:47:55] There's more to talk about what I'll go back and listen to this interview and. We'll pick some other [00:48:00] topics to run off with will talk about HCG. This has been great. I'm glad to have had you on the show. Finally. You're an amazing human being I think that your contributions to. Terminally ill men will probably you and Mother Teresa will probably share share a suite and Heaven together.
[00:48:19] Thank you Carly. I look we'll talk again soon. Okay. Thank you so much for having thank you. Go to his website. It's XL mail.com. You can learn a lot and you can be part of the community there. We're going to take a quick commercial break. We'll be right back with more superhuman radio. Welcome back.
[00:48:43] You know. I started talking about subcutaneous testosterone injections in 2010. I had I have to find the show. It's really funny. Whenever I hear people tell me. Well what we do is we do Sub-Q. A very [00:49:00] small amount and I was doing that back in 2010 actually started doing in 2009 and I talked about it openly in 2010 with Doctor Crisler.
[00:49:09] I have to find that show because dr. Krista told me it was a bad idea. I wonder how long these guys have been talking about Sub-Q. And I wonder if who started the discussion I know no one. I just got tired of pinning, you know intramuscular injections. It's the skin that the muscle just gets torn up after a while, you know.
[00:49:34] I can't hit my shoulders. You know, I can't hit the right spot my shoulders and plus I don't like shooting in my shoulders. So it's always been quads and hips and quads and hips and quads and hips and quads and hips and you don't think about it twice a week depending on if I was running a cycle.
[00:49:53] It could be five times a week, you know, so you're hitting sometimes the same muscle twice. [00:50:00] In eight days nine days. It's like there's no time for it to heal is already a Depo in there. It's like here you push and more oil into the muscle. And I just got tired of it and I thought you know, they my vitamin B12 says intramuscular and I inject that Sub-Q and it's working I could tell by my blood tests.
[00:50:19] So why can't I do this oil? Sub-Q and I remember the first time I put a whole CC under my skin and it sucked it became red and inflamed and I had a well and it was hard and disgusting and I didn't go away quickly. It didn't go away in like three weeks. It was still there like five six weeks later.
[00:50:40] That's how I knew draining of the Depo was so much slower than in the muscle because in 28 days to 30 days in the muscle, it's gone. And so I decided Well, I'm just going to break it up into different, you know into shots and then eventually I started doing 50 milligrams a day because I wanted to [00:51:00] emulate the daily pulse of testosterone.
[00:51:02] We hear all this story about, you know, bioidentical hormones and you know, and what about the Rhythm necessity of the hormone the way it's produced we know that. Long term and long term or long-acting gonadotropin-releasing hormone, Zack actually caused testosterone to drop that's how they treat guys with prostate cancer.
[00:51:25] It doesn't make your testosterone go higher and higher and higher eventually you could put your feet on the foot on the gas. But all day long your body's not producing any more. And I started investigating 50 milligrams a day testosterone sippy and eight shots and I discovered that if you didn't inject them, in fact, you didn't get the wealth.
[00:51:45] If you went to the way your skin is lean where you can actually pull your skin up and it just muscle under there and you put the little bubble of oil there. It was gone in like three or four weeks. It was completely gone. But when you put it into where there's fat with his actual pinchable subcutaneous fat [00:52:00] the fat.
[00:52:02] Because of the benzyl alcohol becomes somewhat necrotic and fibrotic and it becomes hard and that's where the wealth came from and I thought wait a minute, you know, we shouldn't be putting in our next to our belly button like everybody else is promoting and sure enough a lot of guys who try it think I did it for a while and there were all these bumps they never went away.
[00:52:20] They won't go away for a long time. So I stopped well. Find where your skin is the thinnest where regardless of where that is. It's down by your ankles and inject it down there and it'll be gone in three weeks and you won't have any wealth. So I'm it's going to be interesting to me. I'm going to email Nelson and ask him.
[00:52:40] When did you first start using the. Sub-Q injections, and I want to see for predates 2010. Because it's going to be surprising to me. It does it does I'm not won't be surprising to me because I'm sure that a lot of people think of the same thing around the same time. That's a fact. But anyway, that's it.
[00:53:00] [00:53:00] That's all I got for today. I just wanted to mention that. And we'll see you tomorrow with the the blueprint power our we have some great shows plan this week. So I hope you can tune in and thank you for listening today share a show be a friend share a show. Thank you.
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