[00:00:00] Hey, hey, welcome back to another episode of superhuman radio. This is a show that was supposed to take place, but I got sick as you recall a little bit over a week ago, and I'm very excited to have my guest that I'm going to announce in just a second on the show, and I'm actually happy that I'm doing this interview
After all of the various bloggers and pundits have had a [00:01:00] chance to review the research because I think that I've got a lot of different questions to ask. , dr. Rao, in just a moment, of course we have to. Of course acknowledge, , the title sponsor of this podcast that makes it possible and that is all American pharmaceutical in the effect sports right now
You can get six of their top-selling products. Karbolyn. Kre-alkalyn protein powders, pre workouts all sorts of great stuff. Absolutely free. If you go to superhuman radio, click, one of the EFX Sports banner ads put in your address and your name and you will pay five dollars and change for shipping, but that is
Previous shipping costs for USPS to ship your package and you can try them before you buy them because dr. Jeff Golini believes that no one should buy anything before they try it and he puts his money where his mouth is. So check that out show him some love my guest today is Dr. Satish Rao. [00:02:00] How you doing doctor Rao?
I'm doing very well. Thank you. And I thank you for being here. , you know, I really feel that. , we're going to discover that this particular study is going to contribute to how we move forward, with how we look at, um probiotics. I I've been saying for several years now on this show to all the people who say food is medicine
That it's true and just the way you can overdose on food. I mean on medicine you can overdose on certain, nutritional therapeutic approaches as well. And we have to take this more seriously than a lot of the willy-nilly approach that we look at nutrition today. So to talk about what research preceded this I know that you've published other studies on on gut fungus funguses and their relationship to diseases what
Research preceded this that [00:03:00] left unanswered questions that you had to perform this particular study. Thank you. So, you know, we have been looking very systematically over many years why people get gas and bloating and distension and belly pain and sometimes altered by habits associated with those such as constipation or even diarrhea
And in the process we were one of the early people to identify the presence of excessive bacteria in the small bowel that we call SIBO or small intestinal bacterial overgrowth. We also discovered that there are many folks who can't digest certain common food items such as dairy products. We call lactose intolerance or more importantly
fructose, which is the fruit sugar right that causes gas and bloating. So, you know, we've been looking at these patients or many years identifying these problems and helping them get [00:04:00] better through a variety of once. We identify the problem appropriately. We've been treating it. So that has been the preamble to this particular work
So what happened about five years ago was for the very first time. I started seeing , in fact the first two patients that I saw completely intrigued me because in addition to the usual symptoms of gas and bloating and distension. Do reported brain fogginess now that is a rare symptom for to present to a gastroenterologist with it because you know, if you if you having been forgiveness, you probably will see a neurologist or somebody or a psychologist or a psychiatrist or somebody who does more brain-related work but not a gastroenterologist
So I was very intrigued by this one patient that came to me from Atlanta and the patient came to me from New York. And the both in addition to having gas bloating [00:05:00] really complaining of brain fog so that I think was the unusual symptom that kind of set the ball rolling for this particular study
This is just an aside, but did they report a diurnal effect of the brain fogginess foggy in the morning, but as the day wore on they became less foggy. No, not necessary quite often most of these patients. I mean not just these two but the rest of them to the brain forgiveness was um, , usually after meals, um, and was often associated with the gas and bloating
I'm just a few really had some level of persistent, for Guinness if you like throughout the day where there was a fluctuating levels, but these were not this brain fogginess was more transient. Yes. It was a cute and it was postprandial so that you actually can go. Oh it's coming from the food [00:06:00] now, why is the next question right
That is correct. And so, you know, they've been Partners would last for anything from 30 minutes to up to four to five hours in this people at very thin. To the severity of the type of manifestation. Okay. So talk about this particular study that made the rounds, became viral on the internet that you just , performed
How was this study designed? So, , just going back to what I said earlier and so we were we were quite intrigued by the. Unusual symptom so we set about to try and identify an underlying metabolic dysfunction, to explain this brain fog and it's now just for a moment. If I may digress, please we as gastroenterologist do see patients with , cloudiness
Mind and in our people are in what we call this, , encephalopathy because their [00:07:00] liver failure because we see a lot of patients who have severe liver failure from you know, various diseases alcoholic liver disease and cirrhosis and so on so we are familiar with that group because you know, those are the group that are mildly even comatose likewise
We see patients. With kidney failure who have high levels of urea and their brain is not functioning and they are little comatose and foggy but these folks that we were seeing had completely normal liver function and completely normal kidney function and yet they were foggy. So we were really intrigued as to why they were and so we thought there must be some metabolic connection
, so we set about in a systematic manner to identify and. Some toxic product that may be. produced by the gut now in patients liver failure. The ammonia is the big message. If so, the ammonia is coming from the gut as you know, and delivered normally has enormous [00:08:00] capacity to try and break down the ammonia and make and detoxify it in the liver
But unfortunately if the liver is not working then the ammonia is not detoxified it accumulates in the body and then, you know, it leads to encephalopathy. So the same way we thought there must be something that happening. Got that is causing this so we set about to measure ammonia. We looked at glucose levels
We looked at other levels including lactic acid and learned before we found that these folks were producing high levels of D lactic acid. Now. What is the D? Isomer? What how is that different than just regular lactic acid. Does that tie back to a specific origination? Yes, very good question actually, so there are two kinds of lactic acid in the body the main lactic acid reproduces the lactic acid
So we all do that every day every time we walk briskly or we do any exercise, you know, we get cramps in [00:09:00] our legs in our muscles are especially those who vigorously exercise that cramp in the muscle is because of lactic acid buildup and that is the L lactic acid, which is the major form of lactic acid
We all produce. In addition to this we produce a very small amount of D lactic acid predominantly the gut predominantly the cut predominantly in the small power and the colon very small amount and that is then absorbed and quickly excreted by the kidneys and a little bit by the liver. But if you produce large amounts of D lactic acid, then we have limited ability capacity to detoxify them clear it in the body as long as the D lactic acid persists in the body
Then the brain becomes foggy and the mind becomes cloudy and I would have to imagine. That there are some peripheral, symptoms that some of these people may have mentioned like tingling or even the onset of hyperalgesia or what appears [00:10:00] to be a neurology, right? Some of them did have neurology but fatigue was the predominant, in them, you know, they usually very lethargic and they did feel like doing anything and I think that was that was by far the more predominant symptoms
Okay. So, um, once you discover the D lactic acid production that was high and you suspected it was in the gut how did you proceed to identify, the SIBO condition? So for Beaver remember, as I said in the beginning these folks were coming to us with gas and bloating and abdominal pain or discomfort and brain fogginess
So we were trying to put this connection together. So the way we set about investigating for the D lactic acidosis. And gas bloating was to look for the presence of , SIBO. So we give them a glucose or a factos breath test. [00:11:00] And this is a standard test. We do in our lab to identify. Normally what happens is we measure the sample for hydrogen and methane then we give them a drink of glucose and then we measure the sample sequentially at 15-minute intervals for the next two hours
In a normal individual the entire glucose is absorbed and and nothing happens but in a patient in whom the small bowel is colonized with bacteria because normally small bowel is there is virtually no bacteria, but if it's colonized by bacteria, then the bacteria will ferment the glucose and produce hydrogen and methane, which is then absorbed from the gut
Into the lungs and then we expire this hydrogen and Method. Wow, so by collecting blood samples, we can see does this person have colonization of fermentation or no? So we were looking for that in this individual so we gave them all a [00:12:00] glucose better challenge. And in addition, we also collected blood and urine samples for are lactic acid and D lactic acid along with measuring, you know, ammonia glucose insulin and other things as well and what we found was that in
Two-thirds of these stations they do become brain foggy in the course of our study their symptoms were reproduced and in about 80 percent or so of this group, we found the high levels of urine D lactic acid and some had high blood and lactic acid as well. So that is how we made this whole connection that this group with this brain Falconer and gas and bloating indeed had both simple and
We're producing high levels of D lactic acid. Why are we seeing this rise in in SIBO in general as you point out the small bowel should not have any microbes living in it. We're seeing a lot of people with SIBO today. [00:13:00] It's a very distended stomach. It's causing gas. In fact, in anticipation of our show a couple weeks ago
I Google I looked at the Google trends for some keywords. Probiotics SIBO small intestinal bacterial overgrowth gas and bloating. They all have the exact same trajectory starting in January of 2004 now, I'm not saying that. One is causal. I'm saying that there's a correlation that people were searching for the word bloating or probiotics or SIBO or small intestinal bacterial overgrowth from 2004 forward to the same volume and they grew all the way to today
And so. When I'm trying to figure out is if in fact and this is a question we can address later but you know where everybody is banging down probiotics today. But even at [00:14:00] that rate they shouldn't survive into the small intestine. Why are they surviving what's going on with the small intestine
That's making it fertile. , so to speak for seating. A very good question. I thought that was one of the factors that we investigated as you said earlier on in in in the early 2000s and we were clearly like you've noticed we've also seen a higher level of gas and bloating and I think there are a few reasons for that one focusing on the SIBO issue now the gut
, the small bowel is the most active part of the entire cut. It is very active. Secondly. It secretes the largest amount of fluid in the body several liters a day. And thirdly it is built by acid that is produced by the stomach and lastly. It is the largest immune organ in [00:15:00] the whole body. I mean there is tremendous amount of immune, , protective ability in the small bowel
So all of this helps to protect the small dolls from any infection and contamination, whereas you just contrast that with the colon is a slower organ that is less immunity Etc. Where we have a lot of bacteria where there is a healthy symbiotic relationship between the colon and the bacteria
So small dollars protected against any infection and so on but if some of these in the protective mechanisms are either tinkered with or have become problematic. Then I think we are set a stage for colonization. Let me give you a few examples one is if you have slowed gut motility and the easiest way to do that is by medications such as opioids slow motility
We know that opioids cause constipation Etc. It also slows small bowel [00:16:00] motility. So you have now created an artificial situation where your. Slow down that bottle and making it more likely for the bugs to colonize the bacteria to colonize the small bowel. Okay, that's one situation and that the situation is the use of certain drugs such as PPI
Now we use them for good reason. I prescribe a lot of ppi’s for reflux disease Etc. But there is also over use of these drugs and many times. They're people are not being taken care taken off and there is some abuse also of these drugs. So ppi’s are good for reflux disease, but by decreasing the asset production acid is important difference mechanism for the gut you suddenly now
Opened up the small bowel for potential contamination. Now, we showed this in a study that we published that of the many risk factors. We looked at the two important [00:17:00] risk factors for Seaboard development was. BPI and underlying dysmotility. So the when the muscles were not working properly small but these two very important risk factors for SIBO
So you can see all of these things have been happening up ppi’s. We only started using in the mid-90s and so on opioids as you know, I mean everybody talks about it now, including our politicians and so on has a lot of people have started using opioids well, and but there's I think there's other issues at so you
Who written about fungi in the stomach and fungi actually a higher level of being if you will, than microbes because they have they have a nucleus. I can't think of the name of the term the difference. , um, that fungi are but some of these fungi, um have been shown to
In order to protect the environment they have a direct effect on the vagus nerve and [00:18:00] suppressing the acid production in the stomach one that comes to mind that gets a bad rap, but there's actually we need a pylori in our gut but if it comes to predominant, , then we can have problems. So because there's some evidence that H pylori protects against asthma and children ironically, but um, some of these other things out there may also be causing the
PH of the gut to change and make it more favorable for the seating of the small intestine, right? Correct. Thank you. So if you alter the small intestinal flora and pH and so on then I think you are favoring. Are you creating an environment for colonization? I think you also mortality or the contents repeatedly or time
Yes, you are going to favor colonization with bacteria and are fungus when I want to do right now is take a quick commercial break. I've got lots more questions. We're talkin with dr. Rao. This is an interesting discussion. I promise you and [00:19:00] it's going to probably make some people rethink their supplementation
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about a very intriguing study that he published looking at the relationship. Of SIBO metabolic acidosis brain fog and more and we're going to talk about more right now. So you mentioned something as second go doctor that the small bowel is the most immune of and we know that the immune system resides in the gut, , this the gut has been attributed to the onset of many autoimmune disorders
Because of these types of phenomena, do you do you have you seen any linkage or correlation to people who are suffering from SIBO and also have been diagnosed with an autoimmune disorder of some type. Stop. Yes, in in in in context of the two or three conditions that have much more gut [00:22:00] involvement
For example Scleroderma. So Scleroderma is you know, one of those conditions which is an autoimmune disorder where the muscle is being replaced by fibrous Scar Tissue more than muscle elastic tissue in the body wherever there is elastic tissue, whether it's in the skin or in the muscle where does elastic tissue that is all being
Blows By fibrous scar tissue in that condition we've seen significant amount of civil and it's correlation. We've also seen it in some patients with mixed connective tissue disorders where this seems to the runs are the couple of conditions where we've seen that connection. Okay. Now, let's talk about this new phenomenon that really started around 2004
So I have promoted probiotics on my show. In fact, I probably suffer from SIBO. In fact, I have selfish reasons for interviewing you I have I have what I think is lactic acidosis. I'm not diabetic. [00:23:00] I exercise a lot but my muscles burn, , sometimes in the middle of the night I can feel like if I tense up my legs, I can feel some of the signs of lactic acid production and my muscles and so for years I
Supplemented with VSL#3, which is a very powerful, , over-the-counter probiotic and it is , the over-the-counter version is 450 billion cfu’s per pouch. The prescription version is 900 cfu’s per pouch. It's FDA approved for, IBS, and a couple other gut issues, but I thought well
Like most Americans. Dr. Al more is better. I was taking two packets of that and making sure I got plenty of Prebiotic fiber, for a couple years now, we're finding out that that's not a good idea. In fact, there was a study that was [00:24:00] just I'm trying to get the offer on now that looked at VSL#3 specifically and fat accumulation in teenagers and there's some interesting things going on there
So. Most of these probiotics we take they are of the lactic acid producing spores lactobacillus acidophilus, bifido bacteria, , and others these are lactic acid producing microbes and people of pounding them down. Like they are , the Fountain of Youth is this where the SIBO is coming from, I think it is making an important contribution to the increased prevalence of SIBO that I that I truly believe especially based on the findings that we have now come up with this study
Where as you said, you know, one of the Intriguing things for us was why did these patients develop? This , D lactic acidosis and [00:25:00] and zebra. And as I said, we've been seeing for many years, but why this and so when we tried to look more carefully, we found that almost all of the group of patients
They were all taking probiotics and they've been taking it for anything from three months to several years. And in like just like yourself somewhere taking VSL#3 somewhere taking other kinds of probiotics mostly over the counter and less than 20% or so of these. Provide things better indeed recommend it to them by physicians most of them just read around or Internet
Our colleagues friends relatives. Tell them that it's healthy. You know, you've got a GI problem, you know take probiotics. So the picked up probiotics and somewhat akin to three varieties of probiotic. And so on and so forth. So that's was the common denominator for this patient for this group of patients who develop [00:26:00] this brain fogginess lactic acidosis and in some of them not in all of them
We were able to culture the lactobacillus and other probiotics organisms from the gut when we aspirated that given that we could not we did not go and everybody largely because of the limitations of our technology with our current technology. Only sample the proximal to the feet of the small bowel and we have to use much more sophisticated instruments to get really further down into the small bar
Which as you know is 19 feet long. To get a really culture and lavage all the fluid from there. So in that limited sample clearly there was evidence that both ever taking probiotics and we were culturing these bacteria from the from the proximal God giving us the connection that maybe this providing was indeed playing a key role in the development of their symptoms of gas bloating as well as brain fog and I want [00:27:00] to say something
I because it was early on when probiotics first came out. Most gastroenterologist said it's not going to do anything because the acid in the stomach is going to destroy it. It's never going to get to the large intestine where it needs to go. And in fact right now there are companies working on Frozen
microbes, that they've experimented with I read a read a study on a new supplement design where they actually freezing the microbes and they actually can prove that. It's getting into the large intestine. But most of these people have problems with their stomachs already the acid levels of their stomachs are low, so the vestibule of opportunity for these microbes to be destroyed before they seed
The small intestine has been removed. So you have a perfect storm. You have slow gut motility as you point out, which also could be from hypothyroidism and a variety of other things and then you have. [00:28:00] Mega doses of probiotics and specific strains just these strains being pounded into the gut. We've never seen this in evolution from an evolutionary perspective
We've never been able to take for 250 billion cfu’s of these eight strains of probiotics. So I have to believe that the condition of. Opportunity plus all these probiotic people are activity kimchi that taking probiotics that actually causing this problem. I have to believe that I'm not a doctor. I don't have any credentials, but I can connect the dots
I really can you're right. Hi, that's what we saw in our study that you know, these folks were taking it for health benefit use inadvertently. And I think that led to led to clear problem for them and they had to come searching for this. They have been plagued with this problem for very many years until they're made their weight or institution and we were already [00:29:00] investigating this problem
And that was in fact the main message that we wanted to get across is that there are millions out there with this problem and I both not being diagnosed and are probably suffering from this from this problem. So there are two ways that the body buff errs. metabolic acidosis, especially lactic acidosis
Obviously one is , intracellular, , sodium bicarbonate or bicarbonate in general and the other one is vitamin B1 and we know that b 1 and all the B vitamins depend on a stable intact digestive system and things like intrinsic factor, in order to be absorbed in the first place. So, Can we say that it's that the production of lactic acid is overwhelming but also the body's way of coping with acidosis is also compromised in this situation
It's a little hard for us to make that leap of faith argument based on our study. [00:30:00] But because we were mostly focusing on in the gut and got is as I said is the primary source for D lactic acid production and lactic acid of course can come from the muscle like you described and from many other sources in the body, but these very much a gut, based lactic acid and it is microbial
Based also so it really depends on microbial breakdown. So in this situation, I what we what I don't know and maybe we need to do more research here is whether continuous recurrent production D lactic acid does impair bodily functions does impair gut function does impair. Kidney function and so on
We don't know that I think that may be I mean clearly it is a toxic product. We that's why we produce very small amounts and we have a very efficient mechanism of clearing it. But if you produce large amounts cramping is a pain it's a painful sensation. So body has defense mechanism. [00:31:00] It is telling us that there is something there that shouldn't be there and that is harming
So just like we experienced the cramps and it's a way to stop us. From doing over exertional physical activity and that's when it's tight body is trying to protect us it is giving us a warning symptom likewise. I think the you know, when you produce excess D lactic acid, there will be some warning symptoms that we are either ignoring or we are unaware of oh and especially the brain fog
I know that for me before I started to make the connection which was actually about a month and half ago. I had to change my diet and we're gonna come back and talk about this after the break. But I had to cut a lot of the starchy cellular carbohydrates out of my diet. And as soon as I did that for a couple days, I didn't wake up with brain fog in the morning
So I want to talk about what do people do if they fear now that they have this situation. Obviously the best thing to do is to go to a physician and be tested first, but not all Physicians are going to. [00:32:00] Be up on this and test for it. So let's talk about when we come back diet. Let's talk about antibiotics and things that people can do
Okay. Yes. Okay. So stay tuned. You're listening to superhuman radio. We shall return welcome back. Listen hard. This is good information. Share it with your friends. Dr. Rao. , I have to plug one of our sponsors. Dr. Kenneth Brown and that's how I actually learned about you because he was on my show not too long ago, and he mentioned this particular study
Um, he makes a product called Ahtrantil that actually stops some of the gas from being produced by The Unwanted microbes that inhabit the small intestine. Um, And that's a try. So what can a person do? Well, how do you treat someone that you're positive that they have the presence of D lactic acid [00:33:00] in high amounts
They have the presence of these microbes in the small intestine. Can you take Pro antibiotics and kind of do a scorched Earth and kill everything in the small intestine? Yes, in fact, that's what we did in our group of patients, you know, we identified in our 30 patients in the brain foggy group, , and they were eight in the control group and in the brain foggy group, we identified the presence of SIBO in almost twenty percent of them and. 70% of them and then once we identified them either with the breath test or with aspirations or both we then based on Astrid we know predominantly what kind of bacteria they have and we were able to tailor. Their antibiotics to the bacteria that we cultured and based on their allergy profile Etc [00:34:00] in others in whom we were unable to grow the bacteria, but they had a breath test positive likely because the bacteria were further Downstream to the area we could sample we gave them what we thought was a broad spectrum
Antibiotic that would cover for aerobic and anaerobic strains of bacteria and all but we gave them long courses like up to four weeks of treatment two weeks of one antibiotic and maybe a couple of weeks of another antibiotic, to try and improve their symptoms and with that you know it about a over 80% of patients we
Prospectively carefully followed those people and they had significant relief certainly their brain for Guinness disappeared and they felt better, but that was not it we in addition. We have all of them withdraw their probiotics that was important. Yes, of course because otherwise you're [00:35:00] killing microbes and basically creating new soil to plant new ones
You reinfecting them potentially. So they all be true. We're asked to withdraw probiotics all together and they were given antibiotics in the small group of patients in whom we did not find evidence for infection. Um, , we but had lactic acidosis. We had some just withdraw probiotics. , and again that was again a part of the group that actually felt better
So overall with a combination of withdrawal of probiotics and antibiotics. I think we got most of them, to improve significantly both from their gas bloating symptoms and also from their brain fogginess does. Yeah, the acidity of the stomach get into the small intestine or is it just at that vestibule [00:36:00] threshold where it kind of is the gatekeeper from anything-- getting into the small intestine
Oh, no significant amount of acid actually gets into the small file. So wouldn't so wouldn't um a protocol of taking , perhaps hydrochloric acid in between meals to raise or lower. Sorry lower the pH of the gut and and have an abundant. Assuming someone doesn't have Gerd because obviously you don't want to coming up in the esophagus, but if someone doesn't have Gerd
Wouldn't taking hydrochloric acid capsule in between meals help to kill the microbes that have populated the small intestine. I think if there is evidence of significant SIBO and if we are not able to treat them effectively with antibiotics and probably promote agents then maybe we could go with hydrochloric acid, but I think we have other ways by which we can keep it down
And really the most [00:37:00] effective ways to take antibiotics and antifungals depending on what we growing and to keep. And really to address the underlying problem, which I think would be key Either provide usage if there is dysmotility or slow motility to transpire up mortality if we can if they are taking ppi’s then to try and remove ppi’s from their regime or step down ppi’s
Give them, you know H2 blockers or antacids to see if. Can help their symptoms and if they are on other medications that are slowing cut mortality like opioids or anticholinergic drugs and so on then to try and find substitutes for them one example would be antidepressants. You know, there are. I bet the presence which are good and help number of GI problems, particularly IBS and hypersensitivity
But some have anticholinergic effects in other words the slope at mortality, right [00:38:00] and they are not good. If you have a SIBO back to local situation or constipation, so you may look at other antidepressants particularly in the SSRI class that do not have this anticholinergic effect, and they met
Give the benefit of antidepressants in improving the GI symptoms and not cause the adverse, h. Do you do you ever look at a patient, from an endocrine Endocrinology saw a slant and look at the thyroid because the hypothyroidism has been shown to dramatically slow gut motility. Just the way that hyperthyroidism speeds it up so fast that most people end up with loose stool
Um, do you ever look at these people go let's look. Thyroid and see what you are having these gut motility problems. Absolutely. In fact, I do it in almost all my patient. That's excellent. So I'm so glad I do I look at that function. I also look at you know other , [00:39:00] important elements such as zinc and magnesium and we look at Vitamin D
, these are all very important things that I do in most of my patients because and b12 and folate they become deficient and they all have effects. On gut motility so they are very important. But just on the on the tire story if I may for a movement the commonest GI dysmotility disorder from an endocrine standpoint is actually diabetes
Diabetes is the number one GI dysmotility disorder even although many books. And even today we educate our medical students and say, you know when you have somebody with constipation think about thyroid, which I think is correct and true that the bigger cause of constipation is diabetes. And that is to be to be you know, made note of because diabetes affects the nerves and it affects the Integrity nerves did not just causes gas
[00:40:00] Racist but also actually causes constipation and small dysmotility and it is one of the important predisposing factors for SIBO also is diabetes. That's amazing. Yeah, and you know what I've actually said this on the show for the past couple years that there are a lot of things that happen to a diabetic that are the problem is the gut but it's blamed on , insulin and glucose
And the reality is that most diabetics have really messed up stomachs. They do because of the diet which brings me to the next question. Am I accurate or is it just me that some of these acellular carbohydrates and starchy carbs and especially sugar lots of sugar feed the lactic acid bacteria and that they then produce more lactic acid
Oh, yes. Absolutely. No, you're not you're not kidding at all you that's very true. So the all the bats all the lactobacillus particularly depends on carbohydrates and sugars for both its survival and fermentation. [00:41:00] And I think one of the main reasons of energy utilization is carbohydrates and it uses this for both its consumption metabolic Fuel and for generating lactic acid and other assets
Yes, you know lactic acidosis and especially um high levels of it actually can lead to neuropathic pain. And , the interesting thing about fibromyalgia is that most women who suffer from fibromyalgia, , they crave sugar they eat candy and sweets constantly, , and you know, we've learned that
The microbes that inhabit our gut a very smart they're tied closely to the brain and what I mean by that is that they produce chemicals that makes the brain crave the things that they want they know how to order the food that they want through our brain and so, um, there is an interesting relationship [00:42:00] between the chemicals that these microbes produce and the fur the feeding of them that ends up hurting us
In the long run. It's amazing to me. It's really a they're so smart. These I almost think sometimes these microbes needed legs to be ambulatory and hands to be able to get things and teeth to break it up and make it ready. They actually run us. They do I mean, you know, we have a big we have over 500 billion bacteria sitting in our colon and we don't fully understand what they're doing
Most of them are clearly helpful and beneficial and they probably help us in protect us in a number of ways and we're just beginning to understand that including several neurological disorders and so on so I but you know, they have a place and but bacteria in the wrong place. Um likewise will cause harm and that is what we found out in this study is really bacteria that have now in the small bowel, which there shouldn't be [00:43:00] is not healthy
And if we inadvertently add to that by taking bacteria, then I think we are causing more Mischief than needs to be. So what would you like both clinicians and lay people and especially clinicians? I guess clinicians need to start testing for D lactic acid if their patients complain of rain fog, Absolutely, I think you know, I think it's been fogginess
It may be a sign of gut disease, especially if the brain fogginess is associated with gas and bloating and should not be ignored. I urge all my clinician colleagues to really pay attention it is it is not difficult to do this test. And I think they should really consider, you know. Just collecting urine and sending it off to the labs and getting measured their communal many Labs
Particularly Mayo Clinic lab and other labs do this measurement and lactic are lactic acid is easy. They can do it in any lab any small Hospital in the world. That's a lactic acid so you can [00:44:00] measure L and D lactic acid very easily. And that would be a foreteller of you know, that they probably are dealing with a very potentially problematic situation that they should treat is d lactic acid testing in serum useful when diagnosing this or it has to be urine
The problem I understand from a bio chemistry professors and colleagues is that it is not very stable in Blood and you have to of course collect it in eyes and transport it in eyes and then the lab should be ready and prepared to analyze it quickly. So because of all those reasons generally they don't recommend D lactic acid in blood
I mean people are doing of course research studies. It can be done but for clinical. They usually recommend urine collection. So what we did in our study was all of these patients. We collected Baseline urine sample, [00:45:00] and then we gave them the sugar solution and then at one hour to hour. And three hours after ingestion of the sugar solution
We collected both blood L lactic acid and urine D lactic acid along with the breath samples if we're collecting and so on so it's a simple way that with over three are period we collected a lot of information in this people. We collected blood we collected urine and blood samples and we were able to diagnose whether they had SIBO from the breath test or they had D lactic acidosis or at lactic acidosis or both
From the blood and urine tests. Okay. We only have four minutes left to fast questions. So it sounds like a long with the , antibiotic protocol a low carbohydrate diet that is low in starches and sugars, but we can still eat greens or is fiber also something we need to be careful of because we know that lots of fibers actually Aid in feeding [00:46:00] these bacteria
But you know, I think there are various kinds of fiber and sometimes the psyllium kind of fiber tends to Aid them more as opposed to the fruit-based interesting. So I think I'm not totally opposed to giving people fiber but lowering the highly refined carbohydrates is very important. So I think the more complex carbohydrates the small bowel bacterial may not handle it that well, I think they certainly handle much more in the colon, but the highly refined carbohydrate is a definitely no and that will really create a lot of gas and bloating and Mischief
We actually didn't show on the study that. That what is called acellular carbohydrates, which is highly refined carbohydrates at your talk about things that are made into a flower. They actually increase, , the populations of , the wrong types of bacteria in the stomach that was like three or four years ago
We talked about that. So just this fits nicely into that [00:47:00] discussion. Dr. Rao it was hard to get you on the show because I got sick. I thank you for being patient. This has been a great interview. Thank you so much. Thank you very much. Scarlett. Really appreciate being on your show. Take care, bye-bye
Now. We're gonna take one quick commercial break and , we will be right back with more. Yeah, I'm telling you and look it's not like I'm saying I told you so because I was one of the idiots that was pounding down 900 billion cfu’s a day for a couple years and. I've talked openly about my gut issues and the onset of some , autoimmunity issues and I did this to myself I did
Um. This idea, you know we keep saying food is medicine. Oh, we love to tell it. Well, you know food is medicine the way I eat is healthy for me. It's food is medicine and food is medicine, but then we go. Oh, this is the new trend. Let [00:48:00] me pound this down without even understanding what the repercussions are what like knowing anything everybody jumped on the probiotic bandwagon
I mean out the Wazoo and now 76 percent of people in the United States have. Issues, I mean, come on, maybe the probiotics aren't causing SIBO but they're clearly a component. , we are losing the acidity in our guts from something. I don't know what I mean. I have some theories and I don't want to put my tin hat on right now, but we're losing the acidity
The gatekeeper is gone the gatekeeper that keeps things from being able to grow inside. Our small intestines are gone. And then on top of that we're like we act like we're seeing a football field with grass seed which is pounding down the stuff day in and day out , we're eating kimchi , Kieffer
, we're drinking kfir eating yogurt and we're wondering why [00:49:00] we have got issues. From an evolutionary perspective we've never ever r never until like since 2004 had this phenomenon and peoples guts aren't getting better. Look at the trend. I put it up on the Facebook page for Superior radio
I'll put it up again today. Look at the trend. The trend is that people are having more problems with their gut today than back in 2004. The trajectory is exactly the same for SIBO probiotics and bloating. So yes, there's a correlation. That's what I'm saying. One is causing the other. I don't know but there's a correlation and clearly what we're doing isn't working you mean it's very easy to see when something isn't working
You have to stop doing it. All right. Look, that's it for today. We have great shows and the rest of the week. Hope you can tune in live. If you can't. This is a great podcast. Please pass this [00:50:00] podcast around. Okay. See you tomorrow.