[00:00:00] Hey, we have no music. Uh, we're starting the show today in a different fashion because uh, something went wrong with the server literally five minutes before the show started so I can't run any commercials today. So you're lucky. This is a commercial free show. I'm joined by my good friend Daniel Orrego today.

We're going to talk about something that's going on that a lot of people don't even realize and that. Is there a dog food Wars going on there Wars going on between companies that have a vested interest in. Keeping things the way they are at a group of people who are trying to spread the word like Daniel, uh, Rodney Habib and Dr.

Karen Becker, uh who are trying to spread the word about what's going on and how dogs are being fed foods that are not good for them. How you doing Daniel now? I think that man it really is, uh, great to see you even if virtually I know right? Well, you're like a jet set you're traveling everywhere.

And for this purpose, what about today? Right? This is why you travel over time [00:01:00] indeed. Yeah the most recently. Um, our team was down in Brazil, uh, chatting with uh, Veterinary oncologist general practitioners and um dieticians who are starting to develop a real interest in understanding the metabolic impact of commercial dog food.

So just for so people don't may not know who you are. This may be the first time. They're they're seeing you and hearing you talk about your background with epigenetics. Uh, sure sure. So as you know, Carl epigenetics Foundation really grew out of. Uh shared interest between um, my good friend and colleague Ron Penna who's the CEO of Quest Nutrition, um in a real interest in trying to understand sort of the intersection of metabolism and disease and to really try to get to a point where we could um have a better fix on how nutrition can [00:02:00] act as an intervention in both preventing, uh, and mitigating disease progression.

And part of that, uh trajectory centered around a project called Keto Pet Sanctuary which looked at how uh the work of Dr. Thomas Seyfried. Dr. Dominic D'Agostino, uh in brain cancer patients and rats using a ketogenic diet to address various forms of cancer could be applied in a canine model. It was really key Sanctuary that.

Kicked off Ron's vision for trying to understand. Okay, how does nutrition play a role in addressing disease with a focus on cancer and and you guys made great strides. I mean you were effective at actually, uh, freezing tumor growth and dogs and actually, uh taking dogs who. Who were told that they had may be days weeks months to live and actually having them live very very much longer lives as a [00:03:00] result of the nutritional interventions that you that you uh used at these dogs, right?

Yeah that's accurate and well, you know, it's not controversial to observe that. You know cancer and the various tumor models, uh that are out. There is a very very challenging these to address but what we learned in pretty short order and what we're continuing to learn now, is that really and truly nutrition can play a central role in slowing down disease progression and of course in the best cases, uh actually acting as an intervention to reverse disease, And so that's a great segue to today's discussion.

Yeah. Um, and that is that uh, for those who have never seen the documentary fooled and you own a pet. Especially a dog you need to watch it. It'll bring you up to speed with some of the things that we're going to talk about [00:04:00] now. But the reality is that many of the diseases of that that dogs are suffering from today and this is diabetes and diseases related to diabetes.

This is actually autoimmunity and diseases related to autoimmunity and actually cancer. Um can all be tied back to. What pet food has become today now in the Reader's Digest version is that there was a period in time with Pet Foods were better for dogs, uh, however because of the need for metal during the war.

They they had to come up with alternatives to canning food and hence kibble became popular and kibble actually was a gold mine because if you if you heated this food, too. Such high degrees denatured the the protein in it removed all the moisture. It was shelf-stable for a decade. So this was a big win.

But the reality is that dogs [00:05:00] eating these types of foods, it destroys their health and destroys the kidneys. This is unequivocal, even though the majority of pet food companies are pushing back at this notion. We can tie many of the diseases that dog suffer from today back to the foods that they're eating, right?

Yeah, I mean you bring up a great Point here. And this is in a way which sort of makes this issue. So interesting is it parallels in so many respects what's transpiring with human nutrition and right and maybe a good Point of Departure is recognized. And this is sort of been a well-studied issue.

If you go back to the 1970s, uh, the average lifespan the average, uh length of life of a golden retriever was 17 years old today. It's nine and this is kind of an interesting way to set up the issue because there's layers here. Um, and you can look at that. You can say well, you know, it's breeding its genetics.

It's the environment and [00:06:00] certainly looking at those things has value. But to not recognize the impact that nutritional choices, uh have had on dogs, you know over the last 40 years would be really missing something that's Central to this issue. Yes. And so here's where we come up with what you guys have been doing.

So you just came back from Brazil. Uh, and you told me an interesting story that the Brazilian veterinarian Community is embracing this because they are not. Um, let's say bogged down by what the pet food industry has done here with that. They you know pet food industry is quite as quite a mesh with the veterinarian's they fund a lot of stuff.

They do a lot of things and so dog food and veterinarians. They kind of are good Chums good friends, and there's this attitude about not. [00:07:00] Uh, you know kind of changing the Status Quo, but when you go to Brazil, you said that they're like, okay we get it we see now, what do we do? Yeah that's accurate and part of that is because at least today and that of course could change the major concerns that are out there your Del Monte or Colgate-Palmolive your Mars your Nestle.

They're not as strong, uh in South America as they are here. And so there's a greater openness. That's what we encounter when we went down there. There's a greater openness in the veterinary Community, uh to explore nutritional programs for dogs that really and truly comport with how dogs eat in the wild and this is kind of where the rubber meets the road here and why this issue is not uncommon reason I say that is because industrial manufacturing processes for Pet Foods.

Actually perform a very needed agricultural service. And with that [00:08:00] is is that stems from the rendering process. So to add Clarity and context here. Uh, if you are I eat a steak or or piece of chicken right that animal has been slaughtered for human consumption. Now the waste product that is taken away from that process.

Is what actually ends up in pet food and it's rendering is just a term for high heat processing that actually is the first step in creating the powders ultimately our agglomerated extruded, uh to make a piece of pet food tibble. So that recovery of waste in its reintroduction into the food supply for pets means it is not going into landfills or it's not being thrown away.

So that's an important process for agriculture. However, the real question is is does making food that way actually serve the nutritional needs [00:09:00] of dogs and cats and that's where the issue starts to get a little bit thorny and I'll expand a bit on that for you. So if you take it that back and You observe for instance what zoo just and you know, evolutionary biologist can observe which is for the last 100,000 years canine and feline.

Evolutionary biology, uh, and nutrition has come from either Scavenging or uh by by killing a bird or rodents or a rabbit or something like that. So for the last 100,000 years, it's only been in the last eight years and really and truly only in the first world where dog or cat has even had the opportunity to consume a high heat process.

Extruded in some cases irradiated subsequently refortified piece of high glycemic. In other words High insulin response carbohydrate kibble. [00:10:00] That is a very modern phenomenon. It's not in this happens until the most recent epic and again only in the first world and the third world, you know, there's not a lot of dog food for dogs that they scavenge or or eat with a with the catching wild and it's really there that you can start to begin to explore.

Okay, does feeding something that comes out of a bag? Uh, is that a for a canine or. And obviously it's not you know, the idea that we you know, this is not unique to dogs when we talk about animals. Uh, I remember reading an article about the San Diego Zoo and uh a black bear ursus americanus that had developed heart failure.

This is not seen in the wild, uh, there were other animals in zoos. That a developing diseases that we typically see in humans exclusively. All of these animals are being [00:11:00] fed commercially produced animal feeds channel that are produced by the big companies Purina and you know Purina ciao. I mean I'm being facetious but really this is what it is.

And so to tie this into what we just learned about human food, uh what we've learned recently. Uh through a series of really well done studies on Advanced glycation end products is that the problem with processed Meats today? So we thought it was nitrates and nitrites now, we're not so sure because you know, there's naturally occurring nitrates and celery celery is good for you.

Nobody's fucking bed about celery. Um, they're starting to discover that it may not just be the artificial agents that. Processed Meats luncheon meats, and so on that are tied to things like leukemia and children definitively. It may actually be the fact of something that you [00:12:00] just pointed out there.

And that is that all of those uh, processed meats are high heat processed to render them into a form. That they can then extrude into a sausage or Abalone scan or whatever. And and so now we're starting to think wait a minute. We know about Advanced glycation end products. We know about high heat cooking of meat that it causes a causes the uh, the uh accumulation of nitrosamine and other agents that are known carcinogens and wait a minute.

We're doing this to pet food all along as well. What do you think about that? Well, you hit on a phenomenal topic, uh, because it's not just the glyphosate. It's the acrylamide. It's the Micah toxins Additionally, you know the rendering process. Yes. It imposes a heat function. It's pretty high.

It's well above 250 degrees Fahrenheit, but in fact a [00:13:00] pet food may be exposed to up to four key processes during its production. And what also happens there is you have a tremendous denaturing of the proteins amino acid structures on the protein change, uh, Additionally you have um, a big challenge with / oxidation of fats, which we now know particularly in the human literature, uh is a precursor to all kinds of disease processes.

So just the function of getting a pet food to Market introduces all kinds of. Uh carcinogens and there's also toxicity that goes with that and what I mean by that is a lot of these rendered these powders that are put together to compose the package. A lot of them do come from overseas, uh from China from other places and oftentimes when you expose those raw constituents to third party lab testing what you find are.

Above threshold amounts of Arsenic and lead [00:14:00] and mercury and things like that. So there's a challenge there as well not to mention the ultimate Challenge to metabolism because if you look at what a dog eats in the wild, they may consume about 16% carbohydrate, you know on an annual basis in their diet, right?

If you subtract 4 fiber to get a net carbohydrate, they're probably well below 10 percent. Whether you're buying the cheapest kibble whether you're buying the most expensive kibble they're going to be somewhere in the 40 to 60 percent range of carbohydrate that is a massive massive sugar low to an animal who a while they've adapted and probably about the last 100 years is what we've done to you.

We've made we've created acquired Diabetes by making people eat a high carbohydrate Centric diet. Uh, you know it look at the food pyramid. We've done it to dogs. Yeah, that's accurate and [00:15:00] while you know, you can you can look at a modern dog and say well in the last 100 years. Yes, they produce a little bit more pancreatic amylase than they might have in a prior epic.

Uh, it's not nearly sufficient to deal with the this massive carbohydrate load that the comes from uh these Kibbles and so if that's a pretty big challenge when it comes to thinking about okay, what's appropriate for a canine and feline. Right, right, you know and it even gets murkier. So wait a minute before I go there.

So now I want to ask you we raising some issues here people who love their pets are going but what am I to do? So what are some of the early steps that a person can I say? Okay, I'm not going to feed my dog kibble anymore. I get it my dog, you know you and I joked no farmer has ever opened his.

Door looked out on his fields of wheat or corn and gone. Those [00:16:00] damn wild dogs ate all my weed again, right, you know, there's abundance of wheat, there's abundance of corn deers eat it dogs. Don't why are we even feeding our animals these carbohydrate products? And as dr. Jeff golini points out.

It's an inexpensive way to create calories. Uh for these dogs. So what is the person to do if they say? Okay, I get it. I don't want to feed my dog science anymore. What do I do? Where do they go? Well a very simple first step in and you know, the reason I the reason I offer this and put it on the table is switching from a kibble based diet to you might call a species appropriate diet or ancestral diet, uh can cause the cost of feeding your dog or cat to go up but one of the biggest things that you can do just to improve Baseline nutrition.

Is to take whatever you're feeding, uh your dog in terms of a kibble [00:17:00] remove a significant portion of it and replace that with a fibrous vegetables like say some lettuce or some green beans that has a huge impact on metabolism for two reasons one is your lowering overall caloric density. And as we know whether it's a flatworm a bird a primate or a dog, uh, restricting calories or controlling calories has a pretty big effect on health and.

Right only by introducing a little fiber even though dogs and cats don't have the same sack elated colons that humans. Do you can get a mild butyrate producing a fact in the lower gut which does mediate insulin response. So adding a little bit of fiber buys back, uh a lot when it comes to controlling glycemic response and also ensuring the insula mediation is taking place to some degree.

What if money is in a big deal for me? Should I go to my local butcher and say can I buy [00:18:00] scraps from you? Yeah, that's that's one place that people like to start also thankfully even though it's a very very currently a very very small portion of the market. There are commercially available raw dog foods, which are formulated to comport with the species appropriate meal program.

Um, there's not a lot of Brands out there but there's about three or four, uh, they're doing good work in the space. And while it is, you know, it is true, uh that their products are more expensive. Whenever people switch over them, they see big changes in their dogs not the least of which is a change in body composition, uh and a change in how their eyes look how the coat looks.

Um, so it's within a couple weeks you start to see pretty dramatic changes in your thought if you're going to do it yourself at home. There are some challenges that go along with that in other words. You want to make sure if you're sourcing your own meats and veggies. That you also balance the micronutrient [00:19:00] portion of the meal program at sometimes I can be a little tricky the great news is wow, you go on Facebook you go on Instagram you go on the web.

Um, there's a ton of raw feeding groups out there that really dive deep into the details of this, uh, uh of this realm so it's not hard to get help if you want to go down this path, right? Okay. Now I want to talk about our second topic and that is. People who choose to be vegan who then decide to feed their dogs vegan diet.

Um, we are seeing uh, a greater, uh surge of vegan zealotry today because of the anti meet movement and people feel that well if the vegan diet is good for me, it's good for my dog to what do you say to these people? Well, there could be. A rationale for that and in the same way that there could be a rationale for any nutritional program for a certain [00:20:00] period of time right the same thing could be true of humans.

It may make sense for somebody to eat a vegan meal program for a period of time. The question really becomes is that the most sustainable nutrition program over the lifetime of the dog and particularly given the choice that currently between. A meat-based kibble and a plant-based kibble. It's really a lateral move because you're still feeding Klebold.

You're still feeding 40 to 60 percent carbohydrate. You're still feeding something that has uh Advanced Life Hit Em products that has acrylamide that has all kinds of quote-unquote natural flavors, like cadaverine and putrescine and. So in terms of the metabolic and health impact on the dog, it's really a lateral move the real question the real choice that or the real question is do I feed my dog any kibble whether it's a meat-based kibble or a plant-based civil as opposed to fresh food, which of course comports with what they would eat [00:21:00] evolutionarily.

I think the other parts of this too is to really have a serious conversation about you know, what dogs are. And what I mean by that is as a species zoologist and biologists don't have any problem calling felines obligate carnivores and canine Scavenging carnivores. That is what they are recognized to be interestingly.

That's controversial today, uh, many, uh, veterinarians and many medical professionals will say that dogs are omnivores. And while it's true or one can sort of see that dogs can survive on high carbohydrate meal plans. The real question is do they Thrive and that's where the rubber meets the road right?

Is that what they should rather what they can be eating and so that's something that of course if you if you do recognize as a scientist as well [00:22:00] as and biologists that dogs are carnivores. Then boy, it's a steep hill decline to make the case that an animal should be eating a vegan meal program for anything other than some short period of time um, and you could make a case for that just in the same way that you could make a case for say for instance a dog eating a ketogenic diet or diet that induces nutritional ketosis for a period of time.

Because you're trying to get a very specific metabolic response an interestingly both of vegan diet and a ketogenic diet share the same property of restricting the finding Matheny being a catalyst and certain forms of disease progression. So there's some you know, some interesting things to explore but the broader issues is this with dogs and cats should be eating their whole life.

Well, I mean, I isn't it isn't the simplest thing for us to do. To just look at wild dogs dogs in the wild and say what do they eat when dogs are given the [00:23:00] opportunity to eat what they want to what do they eat? I mean, they usually eat other animals. They usually Chase deers and attack them. I mean dogs are amazing.

They hunt in packs that they're an apex predator when they're in a group. I mean. They can they can take down a bear or group of dogs and then and they will eat on it. I mean, I I know that dogs, uh will eat grass when they want to regurgitate whatever reason that they want to throw back up, but I I I don't see dogs and I've seen dogs hunting I've seen wild dogs.

I've seen dogs. I see them, you know eating deer carcasses, whether they've killed it the day before and they're coming back as you said, they're Scavenging. I don't see them eating. You know turnips and stuff out of people's Gardens. So why is it why is it why is it so hard for varian's to look at the evolution of the breed and go.

Yeah, they don't eat vegetables. [00:24:00] What's not feeding of them? Yeah. I think it's where really the onus of the argument lies and there's an opportunity to kind of flip that right so the classic criticism of this conversation. For medical professionals Veterinary oncologist is he show me the literature on bra feeding show me um what the science is that it demonstrates that in fact, uh feeding raw foods is better than kibble.

But but I think it's actually the inverse of that. It's incumbent upon the pet food manufacturers to demonstrate that the community right why the last eight years of manufactured high glycemic. Carcinogenic pikey process toxic commercial pet food should somehow supersede the last 100,000 years of canine evolutionary biology.

So while yes, I agree in principle that it's always great if we have more science. I think it's it's tough to make the [00:25:00] case that somehow intrinsically because there's some science on Commercial pet food. That they supersede what a dog or a cat, uh would have eaten, you know for the vast overwhelming majority of their evolutionary history.

Yeah, I gotta I gotta just inject a plug here for response, even though we don't have spots running today. I have to well I'm really excited about this spots to it's called Simple Contacts. I've been wearing contact lenses since I was 14 years old, and I inevitably always run out of contacts and then find that my prescription is expired.

Well, Simple Contacts actually has an app or you can use your computer and you can actually do a contact lens exam in the comfort of your home at the airport anywhere. It's really an amazing process because this doesn't supersede going to the eye doctor and having a full exam for glaucoma and all that sort of stuff.

But if you just need contact lenses and your prescription is run out. You can [00:26:00] go to http://simplecontacts.com/shr  have your contact lens prescription renewed and your contacts, uh filled and it really is an amazing feature and they have this, you'll get a kick out of this Daniel because from your Quest Nutrition days, they have real customer service people that text you the minute that you're you start the process and walk you through it.

And it's not a robot. It's not one of those things where it looks forwards and then it sends you back and response and I was like, is this a real person and she was like, yeah, this is I just want to make sure you have a good experience. So it's very very cool. Uh, it's a http://simplecontacts.com/shr you get $20 off.

Um, if you try it and uh, I gotta tell you I'm really really impressed with Simple Contacts. Again, it's not designed to replace a visit, to the eye doctor. That's a totally different thing. I just had my retina scan. Uh, I'm 60 years old and I want to make sure that my eyes are [00:27:00] healthy. And so, you know, it's important to do that from time to time.

But if you just need your contact lens prescription filled get download the app you're on your way http://simplecontacts.com/shr use the code shr let them know that you learned about them from this commercial free version of super human radio because my computer has crashed. So there you go. So Daniel, you've been on this bandwagon for a while now, I mean, you've been telling people, talkin to people you've been lecturing you've been traveling.

Um, what is going on with the American dog food companies today? Are they going? Okay, the cat is out of the bag. No pun intended There's an opportunity for us to step up. And do something good and give people what they want to buy or are they just pushing back going as you know, now there's no evidence that this is true.

Yeah, they're so it's interesting because you have to look at the economics of pet food. It's a multi-billion dollar Global industry. And remember the margins on Pet Food phenomenal because you're [00:28:00] effectively using waste products to make the food and it's not just that this is something that's also important to know.

It's not just the waste product that comes from animals that are sent to slaughter for humans. And that's another part of the vegan issue, which is really important to address which is oftentimes vegans make the point. Hey, if we didn't feed, uh, meat-based Kibbles to dogs and cats we would save so many thousands.

The reality is is not not that uh, because those animals are sent to slaughter on behalf of people and it's the waste products this used in pet food. But the other part of this is so important to know is that uh, what can also go into rendering is Stockyard diseased animals and other in other words animals that died of diseases in the stockyard Roadkill.

Anyone euthanized horses dogs and cats all of that is legal to go in to pet food. And also even if you're feeding a plant-based pet [00:29:00] food, it's legal for expired vegetables. Um, uh and and uh agricultural ways to go into pet food. So it's like a fresh head of lettuce and. You know a fresh, uh carrot is not really what ends up in plant-based Kibbles or vegan Kibbles.

And so it's important to note that as well. The other part of this is while it's true that fresh pet food year over year is the fastest-growing vertical and pet food as part of the total economy. It's like 1% or 2% So here's what's interesting. Is that if you look at the response in marketing from Big Foods, there's been some acknowledgement.

So for example, Purina makes a a kibble that contains MCT oil in of hey, you know, we may need to address, uh some issues of the top ilysm and dog. Additionally a lot of these big [00:30:00] companies are very quietly, uh through Investment Partners taking positions and raw pet food manufacturing and part of that is because you know, these are.

Companies that do have intelligence and that do look at market trends and they can see hey this is at this is a fast-growing vertical. Um, even if every uh, parent out there in the world, uh decided to feed their their uh dogs and cats fresh food. It would still take a while for the major concerns out there.

Uh to adapt to that and there's some there are some issues when it comes to manufacturing. Do you need to be addressed uh, in terms of pathogen risk, uh, and in terms of what really constitutes fresh because there's all kinds of uh processes out there that are counted as raw or fresh. But in fact upon further analysis are not so those are some of the industry challenges, um, that still have to be [00:31:00] addressed.

Yeah, uh, I want to plug one, uh raw pet food right now. It's called Valiant pet. Yeah, and I've heard some really great things about Valiant pet and I have friends who were involved with that company and they're very very serious about curing diseases and dogs, uh, and obviously cats as well. Um is a product like that expensive.

It is it is any any product that is fresh and frozen or fresh and freezed. I drive will definitely uh, bring a higher price point, uh out there in comparison to uh, less expensive tibbles, even if their premium Kibbles, uh, anything that is in the fresh, Uh or raw category immaterial of how its processed, uh will ultimately call for a higher price point, you know, I I guess part of me thinks we're overcomplicating it but then again I think [00:32:00] to myself we don't have butcher's any longer right?

Uh, you get your meat at the grocery store and the grocery store doesn't even want to give um vegetables that are not rotten yet, but just not saleable anymore to like soup kitchen. They're like no. No, there's liability in that if somebody gets sick, then it's a fall because if we still had butchers like your mom and my mom used to go to the bike chicken and beef and pork and stuff like that.

They they threw those scraps in a in a in a bucket and the truck came and picked it up and they probably used that to make sausage and spam at him. But I mean you could at least go to the Butcher and say, can you give me some fresh scrap meat that you just cut up today? I'm going to feed it to my dog.

Even the bones is long as the bones are cooked. They don't Splinter the dogs can choose the roll bones, too. Yeah, you're not wrong. I mean for people that want to feed fresh. At home, obviously a [00:33:00] acquiring the meats yourself is can lower the cost dramatically particularly. If you've got a big dog, uh, you know, if you've got like say an Irish Wolfhound or you've got a Great Dane or an Italian Mastiff, you know, those are dogs and 100 to 150 pounds, uh range so feeding, You know raw commercial food boy the ticket price can add up there.

Uh, so going out and acquiring, you know, your own turkey your own beef things like that that you can assemble and put together yourself that can bring the price down significantly. What about okay. So what about those who hunt right? So maybe you get a doe tag and you get a buck tag and you take two deer and you process and you freeze taking that meat out of the freezer letting it go and giving it to your pet.

That shouldn't be a bad thing, right? Well, I mean, there are people that do that. Um, and in fact, there's a whole style of feeding called prey model that comports with precisely what you describe where. Small game will be given [00:34:00] uh to the animal or very very lightly process game. Like, you know, say a freshly butchered uh-uh dear or cow will be offered as food.

Again. The big challenge is all of this is to make sure that as you're going through that process that you do balance the micronutrient low for the animal which is really important because um, that's something that often times. That's the piece dismissed so adding back in. Uh trace minerals and vitamins is a big part of the sort of the do-it-yourself.

How would you do that? How would you do that? Would you just give them some vegetables give them some kale or some broccoli along with it or what would you do? Sure, there's really two categories of choices the simplest and probably the most convenient is to just buy a synthetic vitamin and mineral mix you can get it off of you know, Amazon.

So I like that. Um, some people like to do everything naturally. So instead of you know, uh some static. Ayodhya, they might get some seaweed. They might do some bone broth or cows and things like that. You can kind of put it together naturally, [00:35:00] obviously the work more time doing it that way. Yeah, now you have a dog.

Yeah, I've got I'm I'm a dog and cats guy. So okay. You have a cat as well. Yeah, and I know your dog's name is patience right temper temper and so, uh one of those virtues and so what do you feed to. So we pretty much rotate the protein sources. He'll eat, uh ground turkey ground chicken ground bison ground beef.

Um, and we just sort of rotate through those those protein choices which you know, as You observe will have, you know, slightly differing, uh, fat loads that go with it and then will typically put in uh, a small fiber source. Maybe some lettuce or some green beans and then balance out the remainder of the complex with uh, very simple micronutrient [00:36:00] and and vitamins that are you know, appropriate stands and yeah, like in a powder or something and when when you when you now has temper always eaten raw, or was there a period of time where Temple was eating kill?

Well, I'm assuming that he was eating kibble prior to me rescuing him. I'll come because he did go through the shelter system where there's I don't I don't know if there's a shelter that feeds fresh food. Uh, so I assume you got cable prior to that but with as soon as I got them onto right he still weighs the same 15 pounds.

Uh that he weighed when I got him but he's a very different looking dog. He's very lean. He's very muscular. He even though he's a small dog. He's like a Dachshund mix. Um, he looks like a little mini power lifter. Yeah the musculature in his chest and in his hindquarters, um, even though really his his weight [00:37:00] hasn't ever fluctuated more than a pound up or down from 15 pounds since I got.

When you first introduce this type of feeding, assuming that he was that's a pretty valid assumption. He was eating kibble before did he did he take to it right away, or was there a period of time where you kind of had to wait for him to get used to it? Yeah, there's a little bit of a transition period and that's very common in a lot of dogs.

One of the easiest ways to expedite that transition period is to control calories very judiciously. And also exercise the dog very rigorously that stimulates hunger it cuts down on the time it takes for a dog to cut over from from kibble. Um, and it also makes sure that they are getting the maximal metabolic response from the food.

It really can't be overstated how important uh, rigorous exercise is for dogs and cats. Um, Let's just [00:38:00] touch on cancer again before we kind of pulled the plug on this because I know that's where you're a big focus is right now. Yeah. So what is emerging and canine cancer and and dietary, uh Therapeutics that you're seeing sure.

There's major challenges in this area. I mean one in two dogs will get cancer and what we're also seeing is that dogs are getting various forms of cancer, whether its mass or squamous or Humanity sarcoma, they're getting them younger and younger on balance. And so that is that is a big Challenge and so we're looking at is trying to understand.

Hey can feeding a very low glycemic fresh meal program really from the start of life. Can that not only extend life but lower the acquisition of disease, um, and there's several medicine studies going on right now that are looking at that additionally there's some great work being done, uh in Finland at [00:39:00] University of Helsinki by dr.

Anna bjorkman. That's a doing a comparative feeding study between kibble dogs, uh and Rafa dogs to look at not just metabolic response, but disease acquisition over time. We know that. Um extreme dietary interventions like famine have uh inherited epigenetic effects in Offspring. Um, so I wonder if there are inherited epigenetic effects in The Offspring of dogs that kibble that is the reason why.

Their offspring is getting sick younger and younger and younger because these these these genetic switches have already been turned on and you're just carrying it out now that they're eating on their own so so here's what's so fascinating about what you just brought up. And of course this is [00:40:00] anecdotal but it's intriguing breeders who generation to generation feed their dogs raw.

Most importantly feed the breeding pairs Raw. Notice that within about three generation disease acquisition goes down. So just in the same way that you know, delete disease proliferation can go up. You know, you make some changes to the attrition. Generally it can go down. Unfortunately. We don't have hard.

You know rigorously controlled legal studies to demonstrate that this is the case. Um, but there are several breeders out there who have noticed this phenomenon in their lines of dogs who are fed, uh, consistently fresh food and their litters as well. It makes perfect sense because what what the mother and father the breeding pair is prepares The Offspring for the environment they're going to be born into.

So is there anything that you [00:41:00] want to finish up with before we uh, pull the plug on this uh, and if you. Well, I'll tell you you know, the if there's if there's a couple of things a couple of takeaways for folks out. There is to just think about almost do an assessment of what makes sense when it comes to feeding their dog or Kitty at home.

And you know, there's no parent in the world that doesn't want to make the best choice they can on behalf of their you know Companion Pet. And so, you know while not everybody can make every move that they might want. To do the ultimate version of the nutritional protocol they can always make improvements by doing very simple things.

If you're feeding kibble remove a little bit of that cable replace it with a fresh fiber source and see if you don't experience significant changes, uh in your dog's health and energy and vitality. Yeah. Absolutely. You know, it's funny. Um when I was uh, 17 years old, I [00:42:00] bought my first dog. That was a Hungarian Visa.

His name was sterile and I bought him from breeders who were hungarians who lived in Upstate New York. Uh, John and they when I bought the door, I bought the dog very inexpensively because he was mon Orchid only one testicle drop, but he couldn't be a show dog. And that's all he ever ate and he lived to be 18 years old and he was people couldn't believe.

He was 18 when he was 18, and we all we ever fed him was raw chopped meat and cooked rice. That's all we ever felt and that's all they ever fed any of their dogs. So they obviously understood this coming from Hungary and breeding dogs that the raw meat was important for this Anna. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was a very expensive dog to feed but he gave us I mean 18 [00:43:00] years of joy and I remember he he could he could leap like, uh, six seven feet high.

I mean he used to leap over a chain-link fence like a gazelle and people go how old is that dog? I'd be like, oh, he's 16. He's 16 years old. He's like he had no fat on him. Like you said all muscle. No fat very very little gray whisker. And it was amazing. So, I guess I kind of experienced this on my own first hand, but I wasn't really paying attention when it was happening Daniel.

Thanks for being on the air with me today, even with all the technical difficulties sure. I'm sure that people get a lot of good information from this nothing, but good times Carl. Thanks, man. Keep fighting the good fight brother, and we'll see everybody Monday with a fully functioning episode of superhuman radio.

We'll see you then. All right fine. Bye.