[00:00:00] Welcome back to another episode of superhuman radio. This is a premier show on a premier day. As you know, I have been doing shows on Fridays for quite some time since we stopped doing Casual Friday with a least profumo and but we are going to start doing a show every other Friday with dr. Carl page who you'll see in just a moment and this show is called the pep talk and why is that it's because.

[00:00:55] peptides are important and we need to be educated about them and quite often. [00:01:00] You will probably be better educated about them than the Physicians that you will see and so we will explore the world of magical peptides peptides have the possibility of changing medicine forever. Why because peptides are cellular messages that can correct problems instead of the types of pharmaceuticals that just mask the symptoms and quite frankly.

[00:01:24] There is lots of the first show we're going to do today is growth hormone secreted God's this is kind of a remedial course a lot of us know something about this but not everything and the reason I'm doing this as our Flagship show is because there are commercials right now for really really BS products that claim to raise growth hormone there over the counter really if they do raise growth hormone.

[00:01:51] It's not the levels that you need. Hormone levels to be raised in order to see therapeutic effects from them. And so it's time [00:02:00] to stop being robbed because your doctor can prescribe secrete agog that will actually raise growth hormone levels to youthful levels again without the threat of breaking the law.

[00:02:14] And and also without the possibility of them not working what you see quite often with a lot of these supplements. So let me go ahead and bring my my guest on the show. And that is dr. Carl page. How are you? Dr. Paige doing well. Can you hear me? Well, yeah, we can hear you great. Thank you very much.

[00:02:31] Okay. Okay. So you've been on the show before we talk about lots of fun things you and I and you are a one of the masterminds involved with the international peptide Society. I do I do want I don't know if you could see yourself in your camera, but I need you to move your camera so that your a little bit there we go a little bit further.

[00:02:52] How do you need you to go? There we go. That's perfect. You are one of the masterminds involved with the international peptide [00:03:00] Society. You are actually in a leader division there. So before we even talk about the peptides, what is the international peptide society? And what does it mean for Physicians all over the country?

[00:03:12] Well, it's all over the world. You know, it has International attendance. So its Mission really is to try to bring peptides, you know Integrity make sure that the products that we prescribe in the patients have access to meet standards that are reproducible have purity. To help the Physicians who prescribe these peptides identify and use pharmacies who we know have viable and pure products because like you said earlier the there's these are all over the place in the public market the patients who are just consumers who found these often times don't know quite what they're getting what's in it.

[00:03:53] It may have some of what you want in it some other things that we don't really know what they are [00:04:00] or even dead. Fission products of the peptide That was supposed to be there but since their bio active molecules, they break each other down and sometimes turn into the things that you don't want. So we want to get clean product to the consumer and to the patient so we know that we get the effects were Desiring.

[00:04:17] So I want to talk about that a little bit further. I want to expand on that back in the day. There were lots of us on the bodybuilding forums and we used to buy growth hormone blue tops and we have to get them. Very cheap. And what I learned about those blue tops is there's this is something in peptides called Aggregate and so if your target peptide is growth hormone a certain percentage of that peptide in that bottle will not end up being growth hormone.

[00:04:46] It'll be fragments of the original peptide and that aggregate actually can cause an immune response to people and and be very harmful. These Aggregates actually are are. [00:05:00] Our into the body and the body sends the immune system after them. And and so when we talk about getting good quality peptides and I happen to know the company that produces peptides right now that the only place that the FDA has approved to produce and fill prescriptions for peptides is tailor-made Health the stuff they produces is 100% what you wanted to be that is very very important is it not absolutely.

[00:05:30] I think they're going to say greater than 99% you know, Mass spect. Yeah could because hundred percents kind of impossible. It's like batting a thousand but you're right there. They are quality products. And you know, if you read some of the places online you buy peptides and you look deep into the pages which I do because I get presented this question about patients somewhere on there.

[00:05:50] It's going to say this is for research use only it's not been mass spec for Purity and that's really the concern which, you know, we know with the products were getting from. [00:06:00] They've they produce that data to say they have Purity and that they've also been through rigorous federal-state Pharmacy Board FDA analysis, and you know, they passed and flying colors.

[00:06:13] Yeah, so I want to put this up because this this kind of plays into the discussion today. So Darcy Clark who is listening to the show from Canada while watching the show said power to deer penis. Doesn't raise igf or GH levels and this is kind of funny because there's all this stuff out there today.

[00:06:31] There's deer antler velvet. There is deer penis. There's all this crazy stuff that people spend good money on that supposed to raise growth hormone levels, but tell me if I'm wrong with this statement if I'm a 50 or 60 year old guy. And right now my current growth hormone production is near zero.

[00:06:52] Doubling that isn't going to really have any therapeutic effect tripling. It won't even have any therapeutic effect. Isn't that isn't that a true statement? [00:07:00] Well, you know growth hormone production through age actually is maintained for the most part. It's really the releasing of the growth hormone is impaired.

[00:07:10] So, you know, you want to enhance production but really the problem is if it doesn't get released then you don't get the benefit of it and all the downstream igf-1 spikes and. And you know subcellular mitochondrial impact that employee atrophic effect that it has on all of the receptors at multiple different locations in the body.

[00:07:30] So you want to release the growth hormone and that's where the secreted dogs. I think that you mentioned at the start of the show come into play. Also people who rely on growth hormone, which is the single form of 191 amino acid form. That's very popular. They're really missing out doctor Mal. Di Pasquale came on my show probably a decade ago and talked about the fact that using secreted God's is a better choice because your pituitary produces a medley of growth factors when it's [00:08:00] producing growth hormone.

[00:08:01] Is that true. That's correct. And you know they also you miss when you just use straight growth hormone that the natural pulsatile release of the hormone as well. The body really is a pulsatile electric, you know, it works on waves of release of things especially in the hormone world, you know, you don't just continuously secrete testosterone or continuously secrete growth hormone.

[00:08:25] You have a spike or release of it and then and then, you know, the level will drop. You know, otherwise you'll get receptor desensitization or down regulars regulation. Right? And this is why we see oral compounds like MK. 677 actually don't work. Well they work. Well the initial the initial period of time they work well for maybe a week or two, but then we actually start to see a down-regulation of growth hormone production and an elderly people.

[00:08:53] We see some really nasty side effects including anxiety. I mean a lot of the older people that were [00:09:00] in the original MK 6. Seven research they dropped out of the study because they didn't feel well. So it's really important to remain in that biologically preferred pulse that the body likes just raising it and keeping it up there actually has deleterious effects as you point out on especially on on receptor sensitivity.

[00:09:22] Well, they're definitely non physiologic effects not desirable effects, you know, almost all of the hormones in the body are going to have that, you know natural pulsatile. Rhythm that happens, so no different than circadian rhythm throughout the day, you know parathyroid hormone testosterone.

[00:09:38] Just pretty much all of them. You can think of the big ones that you might deal with and especially growth hormone. You want to have that natural intermittent on and off switch effect as opposed to just a continuous blast of. I'm going to we're going to show people are asking questions about a od9 604 or what's known as fragment 176 to 191.

[00:09:59] I want [00:10:00] to talk about that later. I don't want to get off on that now. I have a lot of good information about that. It's not effective and people shouldn't be using it but that's that's later in the show. So let's talk about the secreted dogs. What are the go-to effective secreted gods that a physician can currently prescribed for their patient and how do they work?

[00:10:19] You have really G HR H growth hormone releasing hormones and growth hormone releasing peptides combination of those is really desirable because you release the growth hormone, but with those hormone releasing peptides, you also get down regulation of somatostatin so it suppresses the. The big names you might want to look at would be you know, excuse me.

[00:10:47] CJ C. 1295 is our most effective one test. Murrayland, you know is a more potent but short term one that can be used for fat cutting or visceral body fat loss or even some data on carotid [00:11:00] intima-media thickness suppression. No trolley to the most common ones and then you would have your. If murrayland as the G hrp, it would be preferred.

[00:11:13] We try to stay with the lower potency ones to prevent desensitization short term use of the high potency ones is effective but they should be kept at short-term use for maximum. We just lost the camera. That's not good. Stay with us everybody. We're not going to drop out. I'm going to go ahead and just run some music for a.

[00:11:35] And while we try to get dr. Paige back, oh that sucks. I'll edit this out of the final video. So don't worry about that. Let's see. Let me just wait until he reconnects. And we may have to just go to Audio Only I hate to do this because I love the interaction. Let's just see what happens here.

[00:11:58] Give it another minute. [00:12:00] This is the only bad thing about doing a Facebook live event, you know with cameras being what they are and internet connections being what they are. It seems to be out here he comes here he comes here he comes here he comes. Okay, let's just put him right back in there and I'll just edit I'll just edit that out.

[00:12:15] I'll edit that out of the final video, so don't worry about it. So let me jump in here and ask you a question. So. The emperor Marilyn is a is a ghrelin type wreck. Okay, so that's going to help create a pulse. Right? The CJC 1295 is designed to increase the Baseline production of growth hormone, but you still need to create that pulse throughout the day in order to truly leverage the effects of growth hormone.

[00:12:44] So you use the improper Ellen and and what about the modified growth factor one through twenty nine is. Just sir. Murrayland. Yes, that's summer Ellen. Okay. Yeah, so would you use those together to create the pulse you [00:13:00] can you know if I'm real is probably a better choice again, so you don't and get create this sensitization.

[00:13:06] Um, you know lower potency but frequent use is better than sustained long-term used, especially when you get into the adding modified versions of it that might have a long-term sustained release at stimulus. Then you get the more the side effects essentially, you know cortisol affects prolactin effects, which which don't want that and then you get these sensitization and loss of the overall impact of using the GH R H4 growth hormone.

[00:13:36] Release, okay. So let's stay with this. So a typical protocol that a doctor could prescribe now that is kind of promoted through IPS would be for the patient to take CJC 1295, which is a specially modified form of growth hormone releasing hormone that attaches to albumin and stays active for up to seven days.

[00:13:59] But don't they [00:14:00] recommend like a one milligram injection every three days to keep it from tapering. You can use that probably a more ideal dose would be using about a hundred million a hundred micrograms twice daily, you know and impulsing like that sometimes if you're trying to cut you might go to three times a day.

[00:14:22] If you're just in maintenance, you might go to one a day. You start getting a lot of the anabolic effects at the twice a day level. Short-term use it three times a day. Sometimes I'll throw in around workouts with patients now vjt. 1295 is the is the long-acting form of growth hormone releasing hormone.

[00:14:42] I know there's lots of people that say CJC 1295 with the drug Affinity complex or without the drug offender teacup isn't without the drug Affinity complex. Just growth hormone releasing hormone is CJC without DAC is a short-acting. Yeah, right. And then [00:15:00] CJC with the ACT is the long-acting the drug Affinity compound crease the long-acting the most common product uses CJ C plus if I'm real and you know CJC without Plus at murrayland and that creates you they're actually can be makes their delivered in the same vile and can be dosed and currently they're stable in solution together.

[00:15:18] Where's many of the peptides because they are. You know, they can't be stored in the same vial shouldn't even be drawn up in the same syringe and injected together because of their bioactivity will degrade them or create an undesirable of our products. So let's talk about that a little bit. So what you're really saying is in layman's terms is that the bonds that actually so so it's an amino a peptide is nothing more than a strand of amino acids in a certain order sequence and the bonds that attach them either have very strong or very weak.

[00:15:51] Chip so that once that peptide is in an environment. It's thought to actually fragment and become all these other peptides. And so [00:16:00] what you're saying is if you put peptides in the same vial or in the same syringe that don't work well together. They actually start to come apart in the syringe those bonds start to attract and they change and what you're actually injecting may not be what you wanted in the first.

[00:16:15] Absolutely, that's not recommended at all to mix peptides that have not been researched Improvement to maintain stability over time and still keep that 99% and greater mass spec, you know Purity and very few peptides have been approved and study to the level to say that it's safe and appropriate to use like that.

[00:16:38] CJ C with a perm real and is as past that bar. Okay, so like test them real and if you wanted to use it with you have it comes lawful eyes. So it's so unstable has to be mixed in an injected right before using and you have to use the infirmary on the separately. So Dylan gautreaux who lives in I think he moved to Texas he used to live in [00:17:00] Louisiana.

[00:17:00] He said that he's currently using Emperor Ellen and CJC 1295 Two Times Daily. So how would you recommend using that two times daily first thing in the morning and then right before bed or what do you recommend? The ideal times would be right before bed for sure that's always the time because your maximum release is going to be during not the night time.

[00:17:21] So you always want to get that one you want to avoid fat or you want to avoid protein a couple hours before because they will suppress it particularly fatty meal. And then in the morning when you first get up, you would do another see to see if because it's your fasted in the morning already, you know, you're not eating instant convenient time to do it.

[00:17:42] Here's a question. Let's answer this week said so is CJ C and G HR P6 stable together now currently the FDA has said. Compounding pharmacies that are that are providing and filling prescriptions at CJ C. GH rp6 is no longer [00:18:00] available. Right? Correct. It's not available at this time. You know, that's I don't understand everything the FDA did does but that's that's where we are right now with that one.

[00:18:09] So what could you use instead of ghr? P60 a premier Ellen? Yes, that would be the next best would be a better choice. Anyway, I would argue for a long term use it does does emperor Ellen. Density it's a ghrelin. Does it also increase appetite? Yes, it can it's not as potent to doing that. But yes, it has ghrelin act like activity.

[00:18:34] This is very similar and modified fragment of the molecule or the peptide. Would you say that if you are getting a great appetite increase that you're probably seeing a lot of. Overflow that you're seeing so the receptor saturation that you shouldn't see that kind of appetite increase if you're using a dose that's that's that's comparable to your physiology.

[00:18:58] Well, you know [00:19:00] with you know, if you some point you're only going to get a hundred percent of that release Spike. Anyway, you know, you can't make it be a hundred and fifty on 200 and you may be wasting your money by going to the higher Doses and it's if you can get 98%. Of a spike in a you know, a hundred on cgc epidavros split it up twice a day.

[00:19:23] And then when you add those two ninety-eight percent Spike occurs, you actually got more release as opposed to just going to a higher doses at one single dose a day. I know it's more convenient, but it's certainly not the most cost-effective and even for the end organ effects of the use of the product to take it as a large once a day.

[00:19:41] Now you earlier your would you injected the no pun intended you injected into the discussion that you know, there is So Meta Staten at play here. So the body knows it doesn't want a lot of growth hormone. So there is a built-in brake mechanism. And that is so mad a Statin. So [00:20:00] by using this approach where you're injecting a few times a day.

[00:20:04] Do you actually kind of keep some at a Staten at Bay and it doesn't activate as much or what do you have to there or their techniques to improve? The or suppress the release of somatostatin to get more out of your peptides you're using. Well, you know, the multiple-day dosing is appropriate not using large doses all at once and splitting the dose in combining a g h RH EG H.

[00:20:31] RP are all effective ways to you know help keep that somatostatin impact is suppressed interesting. I want to take a quick commercial break and when we come back we have lots of questions that from the listeners. And also we're going to talk about a od9 604. I have lots of information about it something I've done a lot of research and to over the years stay tuned.

[00:20:51] You're listening to the pep talk with. Dr. Carl page. We will be right back. Welcome back we're talking with dr. [00:21:00] Carl page. This is the first episode of the pep talk where we talk about peptides because they're very very important. So we have a couple questions. Let's get these up there. So Brad come be.

[00:21:13] What's the recommended dosage for Epi CJC 1295 with DAC? It says without Jack is what I'm saying. Oh, yeah, you're right. It does. Wo okay. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, that's which would which I don't think I mean, I don't mean to pick it at scabs here, but we shouldn't even call it CJC 1295 without deck because it's not CJC 1295 unless it's that long sustained peptide.

[00:21:38] But go ahead. I'm sorry. Well without the drug affinity. Down its short-acting essentially in a standard dosage would be 5 units on an insulin syringe or .05 ml's twice daily, which is going to give you that a hundred micrograms dose of each twice daily. So I was under Michael grab a hundred micrograms and that.

[00:21:59] Yeah, and [00:22:00] at that but that's different for women, isn't it? True that it's 50 micrograms for women in a hundred micrograms for men. You know what I tend to see with women patients as she give them a Lord O, some of them are fine with it other ones can tell the difference and you know, you can go somewhere between that you know five.

[00:22:18] Don't just it. Basically if they don't notice an impact with it will raise the dose really comes down to cost Effectiveness. Do you want to use the lowest effective dose is getting you the impact you want and then you also get the best results for the longest period of time as well for another question came from Patrick Rodgers.

[00:22:35] He says is CJ C and G HR P 6 table together, but do we answer that question ready? I don't think we don't answer and I'm going to have to say I don't think so, but I would actually call my pharmacist and get comfortable. Mission on that, you know, I wouldn't mix any of these peptides in a syringe together that have not been approved like that and not inject them at the same location unless you have solid data and reproducible data on its [00:23:00] own Purity.

[00:23:01] Isn't it? True that when you inject the peptide it actually seeks out the receptors closest to the injection site. Cork show this from a pure, you know, this is it's going to go there first and you have a lot of clear traffic impact these things don't just go to your pituitary gland go to multiple organ sites and tissues and have an impact.

[00:23:21] That's why they work. So well, actually it's not just dependent totally on your pituitary impact. Well, and the other thing is there was a study done probably about 10 years ago 12 years ago that showed that growth hormone releasing hormone in its in and of itself has a growth. Promoting benefit before it even stimulate the production of growth hormone.

[00:23:44] So these these a lot of these secreted gods in and of themselves have a value in their original state. Absolutely, you know, they have their own set of effects that can be very similar to the in priority causes release from and they also work [00:24:00] in the same way and that they can have some of that.

[00:24:03] Overdosage effect and have some of the negative that you see with growth hormone replacement or secreted dogs. What do you believe in optimal igf-1 level is in your practice when you are and also how do you test for igf-1 do you just talk about those two, you know, we test initially on patients to see where they are and I'll test Downstream sometimes on patients.

[00:24:25] It's so hard to hit that spike in trough and up and down. It's not really clinically. Useful for the most part so chasing around igf-1 levels many people will come in and think of it like that spike in curve your spine it goes up and goes down. I don't know when I'm drawing the lab relative to when that's going to happen.

[00:24:46] So if I get a really low level that the patient comes in and they lost visceral body fat and build some muscle. They say their hair skin and nails are improving the got more Vitality. I don't care what their igf-1 level that's you know, that's not really going to be a relevant [00:25:00] monitor or. The monitor to tell whether it's working or not.

[00:25:03] If someone is using growth hormone secreted Gods with their physician like yourself what period of time do you wait to test to see if they're working? If is efficacy and then do you use a 24-hour urine collection to test for that? You want to give that if they've not been on anything ever and in our come in a depleted will essentially see.

[00:25:31] It's going to kind of fold clinical manifestations of Aging may be appropriate for their Chronicles age or Beyond it. You know, I don't need a lab to tell me that that person would benefit from these things. My labs are going to be primarily look for contraindications. Make sure they don't already have some reason that.

[00:25:49] I may not want to augment growth hormone at this point. But clinically you can make that call with the patient many times the labs I might do to make the patient comfortable that this would be [00:26:00] an appropriate course or look you have an igf-1 of 20, you know, that's pretty low and they'd like to see the numbers to make them comfortable with it, but we talked with them.

[00:26:12] Walk them through the process of Y measuring that level is not really our best monitor of clinical response. So I've never I've never paid attention to igf-1 because if you eat dairy and you eat beef, your igf-1 levels will be higher right and and and has nothing to do with what you put how much growth hormone your body is producing.

[00:26:30] Right? Right. It's not a great monitor. It's a you know, I'll check it initially and then maybe once a year to make sure I'm not missing something else, but I'm not using it to monitor the use of the. So when people start using that look at the nice thing about this stuff is unlike the supplements.

[00:26:46] Like I'm going to mention a name Sarah vital is all over the internet all over TV today trying to tout to women that it'll raise your growth hormone. And it really doesn't it's if it raises it, it's so miniscule. It's meaningless. But when [00:27:00] when someone gets on a legitimate secreted Gog protocol like this CJC 1295 and improper Ellen twice a day in the appropriate doses over what period of time do they start to manifest changes that tell them?

[00:27:13] Oh, you know, I'm starting to really feel better. I'm starting to look better. Initially, the fertile side effects are extremely low with the introduction of these products. So you'll get flushing reactions occasionally, maybe one out of ten one onto a hundred times. They're relatively benign.

[00:27:31] They go away in five to seven minutes 10 minutes. Maybe he's a long one wants to pay you have to inform the patient. They might have that but once they're aware of it, they're usually not disturbed by it and it's not a reason to discontinue at so short term. That's about the only thing experience other than site injection.

[00:27:47] Issues occasionally, I'll get some redness or with histamine flare around the site in a person who is highly inflammatory has a lot of maybe undiagnosed or monitored autoimmune disease or underlying inflammatory [00:28:00] co-infections that person may actually feel worse because you have upregulated the inflammatory process as well as some of the good stuff you wanted so.

[00:28:08] Try to screen for that early on to make sure we're not going to diagnose an autoimmune inflammatory disease by giving them something that puts it in overdrive. So when we want to study is so are you saying that someone who is knows that they have an autoimmune immunity issue that this protocol is contraindicated for them.

[00:28:27] I'm not going to say contraindicated. But you need to get that under control first before you would use this. It may have some benefits long-term. But since it's going to upregulate Regeneration up regulates cellular. Capitalism mitochondrial fact those are all involved in part of triggering and powering that autoimmune and inflammatory response as well.

[00:28:45] So if that's not under control you want to get that under control first, how long do people start to see the benefits that they say? Oh my Skin's getting better. My hair is getting better, you know, and and what what realistically can people I mean, Those growth of them commercials tell you that [00:29:00] everything from the wallpaper in your bathroom is going to look is better and be that they say everything from what do really what people expect as the benefits and how long did it take for them to see them and tell them to wait at least two weeks to four weeks depending on the patient and how low or how depleted they were at the initiation of the management because first of all, you've got to up regulate all of the Machinery to start, you know, telling it to make more growth hormone and all of the appropriate Sun machinery.

[00:29:26] Release of peptide even receptors at the cell level to receive the growth hormone releasing hormone or the growth hormone releasing peptide. They have to be if they're being used again now, so they may not be present at a significant level to get Maximum Impact from it. So 2 to 4 weeks the type of things you will see initially or generally as improved sleep deep sleep will be noticed initially and after that sense of well-being it takes while a while to grow new hair new skin and Nails which you know, I.

[00:29:56] This obviously didn't work. So well up here. But as far as [00:30:00] like skin facial hair nails, you know that type of thing will appear initially bone density long-term, you know takes a while to grow bones lean body mass, you know is going to take a you know, month or two to happen to start noticing that change in body composition visceral fat or carotid intima-media thickness or things like that, especially with test Marilla.

[00:30:21] No, that'll take a little bit longer time to see those type of impacts. I know that it's hard to say what it would cost for somebody because it varies by physician and so on but if someone said to themselves, you know, I'm going to give this a try. I want to go to my doctor and my doctor happens to already belong to IPS or is not as not unwilling to join to get all the prescribing information that they need.

[00:30:48] What should someone budget for a legitimate growth hormone secreted Gog protocol that's actually going to work. Better be some junk supplement out there. Well, it's the first of all to put budgeting [00:31:00] and perspective. You know, I'll have a lot of Lady patients and I'll will will discuss you know, what they're doing as far as cosmetically or topical creams or you know, some of them have, you know, Botox and things like that, which I'm not saying they shouldn't do any of that but that's their call that you know, I try to look at what their overall budget is for just feeling better looking better and then try to put that into that budget.

[00:31:24] A in what we tend to find is if we can get any sort of peptide or management Theory therapy in the realm of what your cell phone is for a bill is per month, you know hundred hundred fifty bucks many people can swing that younger you are you might be able to cycle on and off the peptide and have some downtown with it.

[00:31:43] The older you are you're more likely to want to be on a more continuous regimen and to maintain that because you've usually lost a lot of function and effective that over time so. Patients also try this for of one value. No one vial of cgc Epi about 75 to [00:32:00] 80 days, you know, depending on if you're consistent with your dosing.

[00:32:03] I'll say try for that long and then come back and we'll see how you're doing. See what your clinical response is wicked some Biometrics and maybe some laps and then I'll ask the patient to tell me how they feel, you know, do they want to continue it in the. Since I've been doing this the majority, I would say 85 95 percent of patients are like, I'm okay with that.

[00:32:22] I'm willing to make that investment in my health and how I feel and the 10% or so they may not continue. Sometimes it is financially have to make choices about whether you know what they want to invest in for wellness and. You know really that they concept of not so much health care, but well well-being long term is what they're shooting for at what age should people thought to consider a growth hormone elevating protocol.

[00:32:47] Do you think early release early as possible? So, you know, even before they might need some sort of peptide to raise it, you'll get adequate sleep avoid alcohol abuse, you know, if they've got sleep apnea that's undiagnosed know anything [00:33:00] is going to put a hit on your pituitary and your general function.

[00:33:04] Is going to impact all of those pituitary releasing hormones. That's why often we see the guys with low T. They have they don't sleep, you know, they have sleep apnea. So they're not triggering properly with LH to have adequate hormone levels their ladies for sure by the time they would hit menopause because they combination of growth hormone plus estrogen progesterone and women has significant impact and guys as you know, 35 and up I start to look and ask the questions patients may come in earlier before that and they've usually got.

[00:33:34] Underlying medical or health issue that might have impacted that and we may use a peptide and know younger range to help recovery, you know, a GH R HG H RP combo if they've had acute medical illness wasting disease things like that that might trigger from a medical standpoint, but for Easter and make the perfect.

[00:33:56] What are the contraindications right off the bat? I mean without getting deep into [00:34:00] someone's medical history that if somebody came in and said this to you'd say, you know, you're probably shouldn't be worried about growth hormone right now. It's not like product if somebody comes in and they have been diagnosed with the prostate cancer and there and the doctor they and the doctor have decided to sit and watch vigilance is opposed to do anything.

[00:34:19] Would you still say yeah growth hormone to work for you. Let me call the warmer thing of the last question is really head injuries, you know traumatic brain injuries chronic traumatic encephalopathy veterans, you know, those are people who had a younger age may need support and see if they're going to recover a not if they've not just totally cooked their pituitary so patients that will screen them by History questions for cancer history.

[00:34:42] No active cancers wouldn't be appropriate to up regulate things that from the cell level up patients that are in that sort of five year window after. You know cancers we want to get approval from their oncologist and you know, ask them if they've got a reason that we couldn't do this. It really kind of depends on [00:35:00] the cancer.

[00:35:00] If you've had a basal cell or squamous cell Frozen off your nose because you've used the sun. That's probably significantly different than no breast cancer or colon cancer. It would depend on the particular. The other issues as far as not using would really be undiagnosed autoimmune disease undiagnosed inflammatory disease.

[00:35:20] That's the type of thing. You want to screen questionnaire and do appropriate labs to look for those if the if the screen test leading that direction dr. Mark Gordon who used to be a keynote speaker at all the a4m. Meetings who is now very very deeply involved with helping people that have TBI get better and his go-to speeches were always about growth hormone is this is almost eighteen Seventeen years ago and he's been on my show numerous times over the years and one of the things that he brought to light.

[00:35:54] Was that something as innocuous as getting [00:36:00] a 360-degree dental. Before they went to these new low output digital x-ray machines could actually cause pituitary function disruption and lead to a host of downline hormone interruptions. Not only sex steroids, but growth hormone and even melatonin and so.

[00:36:26] So the reality is that there's a lot of people out there who may not have ever had their Bell rung, but they actually may have some traumatic brain injury of unknown Origins. Are there ways to do some sort of a challenge test to say yeah, your pituitary is functioning. We just got to get it to squirt more growth hormone out.

[00:36:46] There are ways to challenge the pituitary, you know challenge adrenal hormones your appropriate challenge test that some can be done in an outpatient. Some are better to be done on an inpatient setting to see if it's still able [00:37:00] to print. Oh, I think we lost everything you're not I'll make releasing hormones if the pituitary cells been injured.

[00:37:07] You're not going to make the growth hormone itself. And that person may need actually growth hormone replacement if their whole pituitary's been injured radiation in particular, you know, I used to see this in the office that prickly guys with beards like my would come and little circular hair loss of hair spots on their face.

[00:37:25] And it's from dental X-rays, you know where they would take the pictures of the molars and you just see a little neat Circle. We're here didn't grow for about four months. Yeah, it's clearly there was some problems with the dosing and the shielding on those type of x-rays that I don't think has been evaluated, you know deeply in the literature, but it you see it clinically and of course, you're just guessing as to what it did inside.

[00:37:49] Yeah. I want to take a last commercial break and when we come back I want to talk about. Bunking some stuff out there. I want to talk about transdermal and or patch [00:38:00] delivered growth hormone. I want to get your opinion on that. And also we'll talk about a od9 604 because I think that's an important one and we have a question from one of the viewers to stay tuned.

[00:38:09] We'll be right back with more of the pep talk. Welcome back we're talking with. Dr. Carl page, dr. Page plug you are. Your clinic so people that are in the driving distance of Louisville, Kentucky who may want to see you medical Transformation Center is named and its medical transformation center.com.

[00:38:30] We see patients in a region regionally and have patience literally all over the world and across the country that we've seen once and then have follow-ups with remotely. So let's talk about that real quick. So telemedicine standards. Is once the patient has been in with you one time in person, then you can do everything else you need to do via Skype or Zoom or some other method of communicating with them and seeing them and talking [00:39:00] with them as long as you know, it's no different than the telephone.

[00:39:03] It's just a little complicated. From a medical legal standpoint because the technology is Advanced faster than the rules essentially so that part still catching up. So you have to try to remain HIPAA compliant as you know, and it just keep an eye out for the how that works and make sure whatever applicable laws that have been our president or have been put in place you're being compliant.

[00:39:26] So let's talk about debunking some things first of all, so let's talk about so there is a there is a multi-level marketing company out there that will remain nameless because I'm not interested in plugging them. And then there's also a patch company that makes a quote-unquote transdermal or patch delivered growth home.

[00:39:45] And first of all, it's questionable and I don't think anybody's ever tested to see if there's any growth hormone in them. Number one number two what I know about. Through the skin delivery is quite vast. I spent an early period of my [00:40:00] life working with transdermal and I know how the stratum corneum works and anything over 4 to 500.

[00:40:07] Dalton doesn't get through the skin and that's why you have to inject and growth hormone. The actual 191 amino acid peptide is about 46 killed' Alt 46,000 Dalton. So what are your thoughts on these transdermally delivered peptides like. Well, you know some kind of times when we get down to the size range, that would be appropriate for that.

[00:40:29] Yes in the there's you know thousand peptides, you know, not all of them are clinically applicable or used right now, but there's a lot more coming down the stream that may fall into that category depending upon their size size exactly. Yeah right with and they have the liposomal delivery system that sometimes can enhance that.

[00:40:47] There's ionic ways to augment transfer Electra electrophoresis is another 100 and and what we're talking about here 3M has an amazing thing called a microneedle patch. Now we're talking about different. We're actually talking about a patch [00:41:00] that has tiny little needles in it. So now you're.

[00:41:03] Injecting but you're doing it in a patch form, but right about the 46 killer Dalton folded peptide of growth hormone. Is that going to be delivered through the skin with any of these Advanced methods? I'm not aware of it, you know, if any data that would make me comfortable using that clinically at this point and you also get into a if it did absorb, you're still using Straight growth hormone and a non-pulsatile.

[00:41:27] So I'm not sure that's what we would want to achieve anyway, right? Well, okay, let's talk about this one. So I'm going to try to find Dylan butros question, but he asked about a od9 604 which is also known as growth hormone fragment 176 to 191. Are you familiar with it? Yes. Yeah, and it's really more for lipolysis or weight loss has been as fat cutting or fat burning has been its primary use in you.

[00:41:56] Can be very effective, you know, it is certainly better than at least [00:42:00] in some of the if you look at it on PubMed or some of the other things better than a lot of the commercially available products for weight loss, but it would be used more in a cycle not ongoing and you would use it for a bit and back off of it not continuous.

[00:42:14] Use. There's any time you over utilize a something like that. You're going to get diminishing returns. Well, it feels so here's here's what I know about it because I actually I actually just threw away. It does in vials of it that were in my freezer for about two years. So first of all, all of the research on a od9 604 is in rodents, right?

[00:42:36] I don't know. I don't know of a single human study that shows that Sly political effects not one and the way it's supposedly works. Is by sensitizing the beta-adrenergic network, right? And so that means that it allows things like adrenal hormones to be more effective. So its effect [00:43:00] is indirect of what we think of as growth hormone by political effects, and I have heard people tell me that in order to get it to work.

[00:43:09] You have to inject it six or seven times a day. And I say to myself why why not just use a secrete agog get the whole growth hormone panoply of of growth factor panoply of of peptides produce lose body fat build muscle like because because originally a od9 604 my humble opinion was kind of like seven keto DHEA when DHEA first came out.

[00:43:37] People like oh but it turns into testosterone and estrogen that's harmful. But the 7 Kettle version of gist is just effects thermogenesis. It didn't work. I think that a lot of people go. Oh, yeah, the fragment is okay because it doesn't do all the other things growth hormone does like the other things growth hormone does is bad.

[00:43:56] That's what you want. Yeah, I would agree with that. You [00:44:00] know, it's something that I've used really in patients that maybe have hit a roadblock or been through several different things and I'll throw it in as a okay. Let's see if this is going to give us a jump start. So that's really my clinical use of it, but not not this where I put it, you know on the on the Shelf, but but not as my primary weight loss protocol when I think a od9 604 is good for.

[00:44:24] Is people who have adrenal dysregulation? So and again, I'm not a physician. I'm just the guy and I have I have no one can take anything away. I don't have a license. So I don't have to worry about medical licensure coming after me. I just means you can't get sued okay for it, you know, it's like yeah, so so so so this is not this is not dr.

[00:44:44] Pages opinion. This is my opinion. But if you if I had somebody who had adrenal dysregulation High cortisol at night low cortisol in the morning brain fog. I would give. And I know you can't give them ghr P6, but I would give them ghr P6 first thing in the morning because it elicits [00:45:00] a cortisol response along with a reduction in some at a Statin and I would give them a od9 604 throughout the day to re-establish the beta-adrenergic sensitivity of the of the of the tissue to start to become more sensitive to what little adrenal hormone.

[00:45:21] This person is producing throughout the day. And try to flip their circadian rhythm by making the landscape more sensitive but by starting the day off by forcing a pulse of cortisol. What do you think about that? I think that concept is legitimate, you know, there may be other things that you might use to help with the Circadian rhythm with pineal cycling guy, Kappa Talon or you know using some other peptides that dsrip.

[00:45:51] You know to reset sleep cycle because that's usually it's probably where I would start with that because most of those patients are have sleep disturbance irregular and [00:46:00] adequate sleep and they need to cycle appropriately from a circadian standpoint and a lot of times their body will beta-adrenergic Lee reset.

[00:46:07] Once you get them sleeping properly, right and melatonin. Let's not forget melatonin because absolutely that shuts cortisol melatonin shuts off DHEA production and cortisol production boom like that. Yeah, because every Circles of each. Do we miss this? We have talked so I didn't yeah, I know I know but we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna stray off once in a while.

[00:46:26] I have a feeling I don't know that I'm looking to see if there's any other questions here a od9 604 versus testimonial and for fat loss. What do you think? Well the test Morel and data, you know was in HIV patients, you know had the visceral adiposity and it is as positive in humans testing that.

[00:46:49] This is present that tells you you'll lose visceral adipose. It's also has some data on carotid intima-media thickness to so it's mine. I would use that over [00:47:00] the LD personally and in the practice, you have to be a little careful with it in ladies. Sometimes they'll strip. You know, what I call Lady fat, you know stand up looking like a 12 year old boy as opposed to the lady.

[00:47:11] Yeah point that now I don't wanna overdo it. You know, here's another question for Patrick Rodgers uses. Where's the best place to direct a private? Our doctor to help them become better educated about the use and benefits of peptide. Oh man. I got to pay him for that question. Right? He said it's a great lead-in.

[00:47:30] I would International peps out Society. That's where I would go. I mean it's like you've got the rock stars of that Community there that are providing training is you know, I love it. When I go to the meetings, there's a lot of camaraderie you're around people who are doing things that make you know, that what I'm doing.

[00:47:49] Is Cutting Edge and is right there with the people in the world that know what they're doing about this and it's a great place. You know, the Mastermind component of it is they actually have small group [00:48:00] sessions now where the you know, 15 20 people who are really into doing this type of stuff.

[00:48:05] We'll sit down and small group sessions and bounce ideas off each other has a, you know, basically a web board where you can communicate ask questions and bounce ideas off of other practitioners. Really bring some Community to this that it needed, you know peptides needed some legitimisation and to be brought into their traditional Healthcare Community.

[00:48:27] And so if your physician goes to International peptide society's website, which I think it's a natural peptide society.com would not org don't I'll have that next time Bill seeds is going to be mad at me now. But anyway, if he goes there or she goes there they can join they can be trained. And they can start to prescribe peptides for their patients.

[00:48:50] It all starts at the international peptide Society. They've only trained about 300 doctors in the United States today. That's a lot but that's a small number of [00:49:00] Physicians. There's a lot more Physicians that need to be aware of this because there's a lot more people that can be helped by this. I did a through a for a more American Academy of anti-aging and regenerative medicine a also a peptide.

[00:49:15] In four different modules over several months there as well, which was faculty from the IPS was also present there and it's peptide society-dot- org. Oh, is that what it is peptide society-dot- org? Okay. Thank you for that. So Brad come B, and this is not in the. Wheelhouse of growth hormone secreted Gods, but let's go ahead and answer this question is bpc effective orally effective compared to a site injection.

[00:49:39] You do get system. I can fax from Oral B PC if I'm going to specifically for a tendonitis or you know, that type of thing I do injected around the site, but you know, it does have systemic effects. Definitely if you're dealing with inflammatory bowel or that type of thing. I use oral putting it right where the problem is.

[00:49:59] And [00:50:00] this is the last question and that is from Dillon gautreaux again. Any anxiety type peptides on the way outside of cell like you know, so I think is great. You know, if it's you know C-Max depends on a trigger of anxiety, you know die. Hexa there's other things that are popping up on the availability right now.

[00:50:23] Some of them are not commercially available, but it's so anxious a good goatee for that. But anyone to look at why is what's triggering the anxiety, it's a little more complex than just here's you've got anxiety. Here's a peptide but certainly peptides are part of that management model and I use them quite frequently bit, but you need to figure out what's the cause what so and your and what kind of getting off track here and we only have a couple minutes whenever somebody tells me they have they have anxiety.

[00:50:51] I immediately go to Wild fluctuations of blood sugar insulin sensitivity. Bouts [00:51:00] of hypoglycemia, especially if they say the anxiety is accompanied with mild internal internal subjective Tremor. What do you what is your go-to when somebody goes I have really bad anxiety. You know, I like to know how what we look at a lot of the nutrigenomics world.

[00:51:16] You know, what is their endorphin and of cannabinoids their ability to process or their ability to process and create their own Gaba, sir? Down in our what is their ability or inability to actually clear fight or flight neurotransmitters and try to augment those Pathways to help suppress anxiety.

[00:51:40] Is there anything else that you want to mention before we wrap it up? I think we covered everything about growth hormone secreted gods and I don't think people need to be ripped that ripped off by Cheap non-functional supplements ever again. I think that's the best thing to take home from today is that there's great stuff out there to be that's available for.

[00:51:58] Zoomers if it's really cheap. [00:52:00] You're probably not getting what you're expecting and it also may be putting you at risk. So please try to seek out appropriately trained providers who are providing this through certified pharmacies for your own safety and benefit and now we have another pep talk coming up this month on the 22nd.

[00:52:17] It's going to be about nootropic peptide. So everybody's always talking about nootropics, you know choline derivatives. There are a host of. I doubt there that will make your brain feel like super brain and I'm going to be experimenting with some of them before the show that we do on the 22nd. So I'll have first-hand ability to talk about them.

[00:52:39] My favorite area. Yeah, I right. I mean I buy stock in trade is my brain. And as long as I can keep that functioning, I don't care if I can't walk if I can do things I want to do as long as my brain keeps functioning. I can keep contributing. That's how I feel about it. All right. Thanks girl.

[00:52:57] Thank you so much, dr. Page. We'll see you in a couple [00:53:00] weeks. Okay. Alright, and that's all for today's show and I hope everybody enjoyed it. Please reach out. To me at on are at superhuman radio dotnet if we missed anything and if you have any suggestions for upcoming peptide shows, thanks a lot.

[00:53:15] And we'll see you Monday with more [00:54:00] superhuman