[00:00:00] Hey, welcome back. It's a new week. And we're leading off with an amazing show. Today. We're going to have will Brink on from Brink zone.com to talk about NAD nicotinamide ribose right beside whatever you want to call it nucleotide to All the Rage past couple years. We've been told that it's the key to anti-aging we're going to get into that.

[00:01:26] I basically stayed away from it and I really thought I'd stay away from it. When last year the company that patented the chroma decks decided to pull it as a raw material from everybody. They pulled it from Life Extension. They pulled it from all these companies that were buying it to use it in their supplements.

[00:01:42] And these companies weren't going to go out of business. So they found the precursor to what they had. They're like, okay, we'll just going to use this and then. Chroma, change your mind and now the product is the raw materials are still available out there and but still is it really [00:02:00] all that? It is hyped to be we're going to find out right now as will bring steps in.

[00:02:06] Let me turn on your mic. How you doing? Well, so it should be said that first of all, you are a science writer of great reputation. You've even written for Life Extension magazine over the years. Yeah, and so. I'm sure that you know, you and I are in that same age bracket. We're looking for the edge.

[00:02:24] We're looking for any kind of edge we can get of attending behind. Yeah, exactly. And and and so, you know, it's kind of like one of those things where well if this is really good, I'll take it but I kind of sat on the sidelines with NAD. What about you? Did you did when you first heard it about it?

[00:02:41] Did you get swept away in Italy? You like me? Like, let me see how this is going to work out, you know one thing that comes up a lot of benefits to age. But one of the benefits especially as a fine person, we won't jump on things the minute they come out. Right? Right, and I've heard that dance before I mean decade [00:03:00] after decade, you know, this new Miracle molecule comes out, but it's also my nature also, I've.

[00:03:05] Never been an early adopter somebody trying to be that the first guy out with information. It's broke my nature and just I think the maid that I am more interested in sitting back and let it the data accumulates and see what's what then try I'd rather, you know, some people just want to be first I'd rather be correct then first so between sitting with, you know, being in this business a long time and just my nature.

[00:03:30] When any of these sort of popped up is the new Miracle molecule, I absolutely sat back. I mean for me my first article in any deep just came out and stuff going around for a while. So that should tell you something right but. So, you know, we've heard this song and dance before with a lot of stuff.

[00:03:44] Right? I mean grape seed extract was going to be the next video is about multi hea, right and that's one of the things I want to get to with you, right? So they always do this stuff on us. Well, we always have plenty of this when we're young but as we age it it we have less and less so Ergo that must be [00:04:00] why we're aging poorly they did it with DHEA.

[00:04:01] They did it with melatonin and none of those are showed to be Miracle molecules. Yeah, I think a lot of those. We're not going to be nearer come out there, but definitely had a benefit a use. Yeah. Yeah, right. Yeah, I think we hea but it's not a miracle molecule, but it's definitely something that does Trail off of weed.

[00:04:20] So yeah, I mean, let's say the answer your question. I definitely did not jump on the guinea. Do you think early but have kept an eye on it and felt that there was now enough data to discuss it, you know it in one way or another and and for my article I also decided went off and got a natural infusion.

[00:04:38] Nad+, you know, I actually went to like games clinic in Boca and you know decided it was time to give it a try again not being an early adopter special of intravenous anything I don't need to read is nothing. But all right, you know, I'm not a beta tester of shit other people are kamikazes want to go beta test of I'm more than happy.

[00:04:59] Even [00:05:00] technology and I watch them watch them first Jack. I'm not an early adopter pet cat either. I mean a new phone comes out. I'll get last year's model right firearm comes out. I'll get last Generations my right. All right. So yeah, so, you know I decided okay, it's time to more or less put the money where so now did now did you approach this article and I know is a science writer.

[00:05:19] You have to lead without biases, but it's hard not to have. Like a lean, let's say as opposed to a bias when you approach this article. Will you approaching it to dispel that it provided any benefits or will you approaching it to prove to yourself that it may have had benefit. Okay. Good question.

[00:05:38] Probably the latter I have to admit but I think again one of my strong points I think is I'm pretty good at I've always been pretty good. Separating my personal biases are interest or you know, whatever from the data from what exists and no matter how bad I want a thing, you know to be true or not true or whatever.

[00:05:58] I've always [00:06:00] had a strong point where I you know, I'm going to go look. Let me go look at this data and see what I see. So for the most part again, I started to get some good papers and I also know, you know, a fair number of people now that are getting. NAD infusions and you know swear up and down and yada yada and something expensive.

[00:06:20] Well, you know, it depends I have to tell you to give a they don't they don't need to be if not an expensive product. Right? But as always, you know, when it comes to when you're doing that type of thing, you do need require medical you need a doctor's time and his expertise and his medical staff you're paying obviously for that.

[00:06:39] So did Wayne has considerably, you know, I have to save you life games to give them a plug is not particularly expensive. So give me give me a ray. Give me a price range that I should feel that I'm not being shy stirred if I walk into a clinic and they say well you got to put me on the spot on that and then I haven't I really have not what can you tell me what that clinic [00:07:00] charges for just as a basis of a price point.

[00:07:03] Okay. Now you're not sure and I'm not trying to be evasive at all. I don't know. It's okay. That's cool. I don't see any I see clinics that are as high as a grand or something and I can be high too high for sure. You know, I reading I want a white it would like these because I'm sure I got you know a friend discount.

[00:07:23] Yeah. Yeah and all that. I'm in the business and I'm trying to get also I work I'm gonna be maybe doing something with them from a data collection point of. But yeah, you know, I'm more than happy to leave and we revisit that topic. I just have not. Okay. No, that's cool. That's cool. Remember, you know when you're talking about plugging something into a vein.

[00:07:42] That's a completely other ya know. I personally that's not what you necessarily want to price shop. You know, I'm saying per se. I mean I'm saying look into it, but I wouldn't go like anything would medical where you know, you might have he might be that rare person has an adverse reaction. And you want a [00:08:00] DOT on hand or a crash most people people have adverse reactions to Myers cocktail which is Vitamin C glutathione and a couple of other things.

[00:08:07] I know what that's like several people. They're getting cops. So I have to say in that respect. I'm going to look for someone with experience not maybe someone who is. You know, you doesn't have it. For example, dr. Gaines, you know that the game's wave machine. No any topic a little bit. It's a sexual it's a machine that actually firstly helps with improving vascularization and the penis and stuff.

[00:08:28] Is it is it acoustic or is it the magnetic? I think it's a proof that yeah, I've heard of those but she I know what those machines were invented that machine is called so I have to say I'm much more comfortable. Someone who just opened up a shaft so. You know best price on something or someone wants to try that and not a bad thing.

[00:08:52] But I would absolutely again, I wouldn't you know, you don't just shop around for a lot of medical things. No, I know price isn't high price isn't always a big consideration when it [00:09:00] comes to that. Yeah. So yeah, so I'm not I'm not trying to be a vase of I just but isn't it isn't it fairly bioavailable?

[00:09:06] I mean our body is used to absorbing B3 nicotinic acid nicotinamide and it's that's just a downstream metabolites of it, isn't it? Yes for sure. You get the thing. However, is that like a lot of dough? Metabolized it probably gets less and less efficient with eggs. And so what you then have is something called up, you know, the limiting reactant that is where is the weather where is the stage where it gets jammed up and it's right right.

[00:09:31] We can take cysteine, you know a lot of 16, but it doesn't seem to do once you hit her. If not going to push the the process too much farther into glutathione production. If you jump the limiting reaction and start using gluten meal cysteine, it goes up, right. And they say the same the same is true like a beta alanine to carnosine levels.

[00:09:51] So beta alanine is the limiting factor. So you just focus on that and everything else kind of takes care of itself. So what is so what is the what is the [00:10:00] limiting? Oh, we just lost. Well, that's no good. I hope he knows that we lost him. And because I could always jump in a break here. And he comes back.

[00:10:11] Well, if you can hear me we lost your camera completely just when it was getting good. Okay, here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to take a quick commercial break. If for nothing else to give will time to come back on the air. So stay tuned. We'll be right back with more he's coming back. Hey, what coming back right now?

[00:10:29] How's that? So here's will and I back. That works. Yeah, it's okay. It happens. It's part of the technology. That's okay mass percentage and got a free plug so so it's fairly bioavailable. And obviously as you point out there's a there's something that is limiting it. What is do we know? What's limiting?

[00:10:53] Is there an enzyme [00:11:00] that limited? What's a good thing you brought that up actually taking on their engine actually increases NAD because it is because it slows down p450 cytochrome enzyme, you know, just for the record. This is why grapefruit is Magic, but unfortunately, most of them are engine and delimiting.

[00:11:21] That's in great food is in the skin. So you gotta kind of you got a squirt that oil in your mouth a little bit, you know? No, I'm also a little hesitant. The only thing that bothered me about 1400 people if the Inhibitors like that it's kind of a blanket. Inhibiting and so it can mess with other.

[00:11:35] Well, yeah the down the downstream Cascades and see him we leverage that when it comes to aromatase right because the precursor to Aroma taste is cyclooxygenase. So if you reduce whole body inflammation, you actually indirectly reduce aromatization, but then there's other enzymes we look at this one here.

[00:11:54] We forget that that train car all the way up there is going to be affected as well. I'm a little bit hesitant to talk to [00:12:00] throw in for that blanket inhibitor. If you raise any D levels apparently by reducing people if we have been given and and do people get enough niacin in their diet these days you think I mean, I know the rdas RBS most of the time, you know, that's a good question here that need looking at their I don't think be free.

[00:12:20] Funds to be you know one that is the people are deficient in I don't think there's a lot of be free to think that's a good question well, but here but here's the thing. Well we talked about deficiency using the target of the what we think well, you know even people who are less conservative, they'll look at the RDA and the go will triple that because that's what you need.

[00:12:40] But who knows you could need ten times that in order to have the authority proprietary actions adequate versus optimal is right. And of course it's a. Come on individual again. As we age that that number can change considerably. For example, I don't think a younger person. Let's say under than 30 probably going to benefit from [00:13:00] any of the infusions or nicotine ribose as a supplement because there any D levels are fine.

[00:13:05] They're probably not even taking a multi or something to probably producing enough from D3, but beyond that sort of magic 4045. There's a very consistent chart of any deep tissue levels going down. For the point. We're at about 5% at 85% of wow. That's pretty bad. And you know is a very strong correlation but now but that one was so I used to always look at things that way.

[00:13:31] Oh we have less of it as we age. So if we ramp it back up, well it's better, but but but but but what if the body doesn't want that much NAD for some reason other any. Unwanted changes in high NAD levels not so far that I'm aware of. I will say that anybody that says that we have all the data we need on any deed is like saying we understand quantum physics.

[00:13:59] It [00:14:00] folds right? We really lots of questions left for the answered about any D levels and how it correlates the negative stop and whether ramping it up is a good idea. I think so far to me the bulk of the data suggests that. All kinds of negative age-related think there are like the animal studies are our self-study.

[00:14:18] You've got that show that you know, any of these are kind of a linchpin to Cellular energetics. And so energetics obviously is the is the linchpin to agent right as as we as our cells on a cellular level at more and more trouble producing energy efficiently. This is the Hallmark of aging on so many levels.

[00:14:38] So anything that you know improves or maintains healthy cellular energetics clearly seems to be a plus. Okay, but I will tell you that anybody except that. We got all the answers on any be and how it works and who needs what is is, you know lying they lie and a lot of the charlatans go out there and and make those kind of universal statements about the [00:15:00] supplements like oh this is what you need and you need someone to body is so complex.

[00:15:04] That anybody who tells you this is the reason for all aging related illness run run fast from them run Mark the car. So I see your question. We're going to answer a little bit later in the show. I don't want to get off on the NAD topic right now. So, okay. What does the research show supposedly that supplementing with NAD does and I'm not impressed with cell line type stuff because you know gasoline gasoline kills cancer cells.

[00:15:33] In a Petri dish but you can't give people gasoline to kill cancer right will have minimal value for sure there. Is there an animal study in there is a human there is one proof-of-concept human study that did show oral and our makeup in room at the ribose, which is was not technically NAD. If a precursor to any disco people, I put a lot of people just to say I'm taking any D supplements or not.

[00:15:55] We're not taking any deal that taking precursors to NAD. The infusion I had with [00:16:00] actual nad+ and nadh straight up. But yeah those areas there is a recent proof-of-concept human study that did show that or onr does raise tissue any D level. So there is you know, we are going through the hole in Vivo type thing.

[00:16:16] Now again, the real question, of course is you know, what we need. Of course is those studies looking at some endpoint? Okay. So we raised any dhiraj don't that lead to something that does good positive? Yeah. Now before I say, you know, the poster child for this problem is in vitamin D vitamin D is the poster child for this issue.

[00:16:35] All these studies showing low D levels as bad. So if we take anything sorry, if we take Blake vitamin D and race 2500HD levels good things to happen and that is not really shown to be with me right now. There's just it's just it's just a complicated topic. I mean so down in the case of D because this happens to be a.

[00:16:56] Area of research for me because of my Primal D spray in the area [00:17:00] of vitamin D. We are ignoring a much more powerful hormone. And that is the Milano courtin system, which actually does all the things that D is attributed with and it also is increased in production from the Sun so you know it sometimes.

[00:17:20] The baby gets thrown away with the bathwater because you're not paying attention to the entire thing, but that I don't want to get deep into that. But I think the data is very strong. I'm quite comfortable to data that low NAD levels is definitely a negative. You don't want low 80 level is strongly correlated with a whole bunch of things.

[00:17:45] We don't want to happen and I'm comfortable with that. Okay. The part that's the part I think is pretty damn solid. It's pretty deep at this point. Right but we're back to that usual thing. Okay, we know we think any lower energy levels on [00:18:00] a cellular level isn't bad. We now know how to raise any D levels orally with a couple of supplements or otherwise and that third magic part.

[00:18:08] Does that lead to beneficial outcomes? That's where we have we don't have. That that data and that's there's a lot of studies being done in the NAD is kind of the darling molecule right now in thin even in traditional medicine, so it's not just the you can help her and if I can is getting a lot of attention.

[00:18:26] There's three times. I've seen some more recent studies showing. That NAD May improve outcomes in some neurological disorders. I've seen some studies recently implying that it may have some nootropic effects and improving cognition. What did you notice after your infusion? Did you notice anything?

[00:18:44] You know, I did put a caveat, of course out there it has had on here and just say that my subjective n equals 1. I am a. I am is susceptible. Yeah, I was able to placebos [00:19:00] anybody. Yes matter what the CBO is the most accessible to see both, right? All right expectation by oh, so that's let's put that in there.

[00:19:09] I didn't notice any difference in sleep. A lot of people mention Sleep Quality, but from the nootropic point of view, you know, yes, I really felt that a few days after that. I had more energy A little mentally sharper. That'll really I think but again I got to you know identify that caveat to I haven't done all of the infusions that you're supposed to do.

[00:19:32] Basically moment. Are you supposed to do over what course of time healthy person again? They're still figuring this out. But right now the basic protocols used to be three infusion for helping people not find a dress a particular issue at about three to five hundred milligrams a shot maybe once a week.

[00:19:51] You know until you get them done, so I haven't done all three in some people again will tell you, you know, the magic happens at two and three and I can believe [00:20:00] that. But that's the dose. That's what those that happen. Yeah, you know, I do feel I did feel like just improved process, you know again, you know as you get older there's like a process.

[00:20:12] Yeah. There's a there's a pause sometimes when you thinking of salt. Yeah, don't worry Paul numbers and facts as quickly used to and all that. And I do feel that that something was there. They're like I say I do you do you do you supplement with nicotinic acid with nicotinamide? You know, I don't but her that article I think in this is sort of again, we need data but so scientists.

[00:20:36] I've been talking to other really on this stuff and clinicians and stuff. They're feeling is that the optimal way maybe to get tissue levels up give you a fusion and then keep it up. Yeah, the NRC oil right? So I think once I get my 20 done, I will add some men are in there, but why not? Okay. So here's here's my trouble with NR right?

[00:20:59] So we just [00:21:00] like the the p450 cytochrome Cascade like manipulating this this car here in the middle of this long train and expecting it not to have an effect on the train cars behind and in front of it like you say that's kind of a reckless thing. You got to be careful with that. When you take nicotinamide your body produces a variety of metabolites from that it affects prostaglandin production.

[00:21:24] It does all these different things as it's getting down to that end point where it also increases NAD through Nikita nicotinamide ribose. And so why not just take nicotinic acid. Why not just take you know, you get a bottle of niacin at Kroger's for $3. Well, I agree even if I take it with great and I'm gonna I'm gonna take my with grapefruit today.

[00:21:49] I have my nicotinic acid here and I have a grapefruit in the refrigerator and it's a good question, you know, the data is not there to to answer that question really? Well, I will say that n r [00:22:00] is pretty early in the pathway. It doesn't you have a split off in anything yet. The only two steps from nicotinamide, right?

[00:22:06] So you haven't gone off you're not I don't think you're as you were saying a lot of times you do things late enough in the chain and they show their stuff on a split off into other interesting thing right in our is very early in the only two steps away. So you haven't gone into other metabolites to break that what you're saying, right?

[00:22:22] And I think in this is where the data I've been looking at it again, I think that age-related. A younger person with all those healthy enzyme probably any content amide is more than adequate but you make it to the might also with made any developer late instructor Phil, by the way, so you also need actual tryptophan along with your niacin.

[00:22:41] I think that younger person is is more than adequate and wouldn't be benefit but I it looks to me as we age that enzyme that degrades NAD. Those up that 38 so not only there's there's a less of a conversion but there's a greater degree rotational what you're doing though, Asian and [00:23:00] so my thought is not think this will hold up and what we're seeing is that it is an age-related decline in that conversion, you know, just like I think a good example of this might be LNA right flax oil, right, right.

[00:23:12] Wax off a young people. They convert fairly. Well, maybe they can get enough VP and DHEA, but then we age that especially being the mmm sex and whatever else we're taking we need to take EPA and D. We need to get those preformed. Right? Right. This is no way around it. And I think that's where I think we're going with this but you know, I if I even if I saw a nicotinamide, you know niacin plus NR.

[00:23:36] I want to show the two equal if it wasn't done with grade of AIDS like, you know, 30 40 50 70. I wouldn't pay any attention to it interesting. You're right quick because it's really designed really it's older people who should be taking it so they should be studying. All these things in older people to see what the outcome that's where I'm at, but I would you know, I love because I can tell you I take a 500 milligram of Time released [00:24:00] niacin cheap.

[00:24:00] I it Sundowner or Sundown, you know the orange bottle. I think I pay like eight dollars for it at Kroger's and I take one of those a day with my first meal in the morning and I can tell you that I feel sharper if I take it I do but I also and I'll tell you what else it does Nick. It's just plain ol nicotinamide.

[00:24:17] If you're prone to allergies the first couple days you take it you get the flushing that's prostaglandin release. Well, you deplete those prostaglandins and then you notice that your allergies. Don't bother you as much well. So there's another value time. We saw the only issue of time which is nice and what you look liver enzymes.

[00:24:36] No, no, you're talking about the pharmaceutical your turbine is span. So Nia span is actually kind of like the oral antibiotics steroids. It's. But no, but but what they do is they take gar gum and they make these pills now these like sustained-release melatonin and time release my they just add a gum to it.

[00:24:57] So when you swallow it, it just doesn't dissolve completely in the [00:25:00] gun its dissolving. I tried taking high doses niacin to raise HDL and stuff. I never I just I never stopped watching. I got a bad response. So why don't you want to hear a funny story? So probably back in about 1990. I read it.

[00:25:16] There's a guy here in my city named dr. Lewis hyzer and he owns a sports facility here. And he was one of the Physicians he's a heart surgeon and he stopped working in that area of medicine and he focused on Sports. Well, he was one of the original guys on the team at Florida State. When they came up with Gatorade and the original Gatorade formula was supposed to have a hundred milligrams of niacin per serving because niacin.

[00:25:46] Shuts off free fatty acid production and raises spontaneous growth hormone production from exercise. So they were like, oh we might use a niacin the athletes are going to get more more growth hormone production while they trained and that's going to [00:26:00] help repair tissue. But all the all the guys will like it should and scratch and they like Doc what's in this stuff?

[00:26:06] And so they had to take the niacin out. So when I read that study, I took a bottle of nice into the yeah. Well, this is what I did. I took 200 milligrams and shoot it up and drink it down with my water as I was walking in the gym and then every 20 minutes. I took another 200 milligrams because that's what the original study showed and exposed to Triple your growth hormone production, but it wasn't worth it because I was red and itchy not a like for example.

[00:26:34] I don't really get them a problem from be a as far as the flushing and stuff doesn't bother me. It's not nearly as bad as nice. No fun, but I got a pretty high up on the nice and polite and it just never went away and it wasn't it's not worth it. Well, maybe I'll look that I'll look after some time at least nice and but yeah, yeah my ritual now in my original looking into.

[00:26:51] Mentioned liver enzymes this is it. Yeah that again and that's and that's Nia spin. That's the pharmaceutical drug of time [00:27:00] really took what they do they do and if you look at and if you look at if you look at the ingredients, one of the ingredients is either some kind of a gum xanthan gum Gargamel or cellulose gum and that's what they do.

[00:27:13] They use that as the binder and it slows down the digestion. That's all it does. It's. Actually, if we can back of it the niacin is just you know, wanted to take Niacin. I actually got into a bit of a color to fight online with this one guy was absolutely convinced. That was the only way to go and I don't think you know what you're talking about, but regardless, it's a good question.

[00:27:33] That is okay. So we're getting older. We're not converting as much could we just take more niacin? I don't know. I mean answered. I don't know frankly because there's just not you know, the data isn't there and that's a it might be perfectly possible. You take some niacin and eat all the skin off of grapefruit and a little tough and you might be good to go.

[00:27:50] It's really unfortunate that NR is so expensive and that's because what you were talking about with the whole throw midex thing and Alicia makovan external huge mask [00:28:00] that legal battle right now, right? Yeah, I recommend anybody Google that it's really it's not good and it's well and I want to I want to talk about that when we come back.

[00:28:08] I want to take our official break now when we come back I want to talk about that because chromey that's kind of shot themselves in the foot because all these other guys like LEF said, okay, we'll just sell the precursor to. Nicotinamide ribose and there is a precursor. Yeah, I want to talk about that.

[00:28:25] Yeah, what about that stay tuned. We'll be right back with more of we'll bring check out his website Brink zone.com. If you want to be smarter tomorrow, we'll be right back. Welcome back. So as the discussion turned to a moment ago the company that owns the patent on nicotinamide ribose. Is chroma decks, correct?

[00:28:52] Yes, okay. So chroma Dex what they decided to do middle of her saying no. No II was saying it but then I wasn't sure if you're Mike was [00:29:00] working. So I was like, let me turn it into a question. So what they decided to do last year was they had all these companies buying this raw material and using it and in different types of Blends very successfully and then they decided you know, what?

[00:29:16] We're not going to sell it to anybody anymore. And that really caused a big problem because there are people who still had stock and that they were not going to be able to sell and they were telling chroma deck. You got to buy this stuff back and and then and then a couple of smart people came out and said, well the precursor nicotinamide right beside is an ADC or n a DMM or something like that and they were like, we'll just sell that and and it makes perfect sense.

[00:29:41] It's like. Well, if we can't get that train car will get this train car. They're both going to the same place. Anyway, yeah, it's that's a really interesting one and I am just looking into it. There's there's there's some twists and turns of that one that precursor that this is really kind of wild stuff [00:30:00] to me.

[00:30:00] There's more need to be said, but we're going with the enzyme to degrade. NAD right. I found one study that actually found that enzyme degrade NAD and the NMM precursor, but not an r and so NR may be uniquely qualified for raising NAD level. That's interesting. Well that cool. Yeah. It's knockout mice where they took that that enzyme out of them.

[00:30:24] So they didn't make that enzyme and they end they gave him a fusions of the three of them and the only one that consistently continue to raise any D was the NRA. That's interesting. You didn't know right? So right. So right beside is is an acid of ribonucleic. It's one of the ribonucleotides right?

[00:30:44] Well, right, so I wonder if that's why the enzyme couldn't degrade it because of the hierarchy of importance of a ribosome side. Nucleotide: getting into the enzyme kinetics and yeah, not my mind. [00:31:00] No. No, I'm just spitballing. I'm just thinking out loud. You know what you're getting some deep some some deep stuff there now.

[00:31:06] Yeah. Yeah, you know the mechanism. I don't know yet as you say maybe these it be NR is is uniquely the enzymes doesn't prefer. Or just you know even prepare I would I would rather I would venture to Guess that that that end that that nucleotide because it's part of our. NRA influencers that it's protected against some of these other enzymes that would degrade.

[00:31:35] Well that that the study that I found that indicated that strong. Yeah. It's a really wasn't really into confetti. Didn't it? So indicated again is an animal study and all the usual caveats for sure. But those type of metabolic pathway studies and you know animal studies were fine today. I don't have problems with those I have problems when you know, you feed or rabbit eggs and get caught and gets Parker's even go ever about you know, but it from a basic [00:32:00] pathway study their pathway is the same as our pathway for making.

[00:32:03] And all you know any deal, you know the right we definitely I don't mind the animal studies trying but he did it with actual knockout mice the like say they knocked out that one enzyme from those mice and gave them all three of those and only one continued to be produced in a large amount of obviously all work.

[00:32:20] So and and our may be uniquely suited again for avoiding that that degradation enzyme is obviously so. A lot of the research and a lot of the hype about NAD states that it it can actually reverse cellular senescence. Is there really evidence of that? Is there evidence that when levels are raised high enough animals?

[00:32:47] Yeah, there's some various there is some there is some more convincing animal data. When I took older the animals, you know, obviously very low any D levels and pumped up there NAD plus all of the other thing. We I'm going to Sidetrack [00:33:00] a little bit here, but it's not just any D. What there's there's the there's the reduced version of NAD and then there's any do plus and and so depending on going back and forth It's a redox thing, right?

[00:33:11] So what appeared to be the ratio of nad+ if you want high nad+ levels and lower reduce levels and as we age that that that ratio. What seems to change the most so when we're talking NAD were actually part of benefits. We're actually talking any due process why I not important but with the technical glitch, is there a is there an enzyme that turns it into Plus?

[00:33:37] I don't think that's a good question. that's a good question and I will have to look in. Yeah, because that would be another enzyme to focus on then right after watching these tend to be more, you know spontaneous, but I could be completely wrong in it for anybody that anybody really knows their any demon metabolic pathway by all means.

[00:33:56] Correct me. Yeah even email me email me an on-air [00:34:00] at superhuman radio dotnet if you know the answer to that absolutely. It's a good thing. We're talking the ratio of any deed any nad+. But anyways, not that when we're talking and you benefits but yeah, there are some there are some interesting animal studies.

[00:34:16] They took old mice and what obviously the fish uned levels and and pumping their nad+ levels back up. The healthy levels did show on a cellular level, you know senescence that a young. A young sell it for energy production and all the things that we associate so the the homework now of reversing cellular senescence, is that cellular senescence produces a with a lot of clinicians and out referring to a zombie cell?

[00:34:44] They don't die. They should die. They apoptosis should have taken place and they should have been gone, but they just linger. And they produce all sorts of inflammatory cytokines and poisons that literally poison the cells around them and eventually those cells become [00:35:00] senescent and the bioaccumulation of this metabolic debris.

[00:35:02] If you will is what we see when we look at the phenotypical aging process, you

[00:35:20] know. I told my rapamycin no not the myosin somet recognizes an m is actually an M4 a mild mtor inhibitor. I don't think it works. No rabbis from works, but it's I had thought the black ass cloney on my show a couple times. He's the guy who's done all the research on rapamycin well, I think that was more of an mtor a mild mtor inhibitor and ampk activated.

[00:35:42] But but see here, but here's the thing. Okay, so that's my question was going in that direction. Does NAD or nad+ appeared to influence mtor at all? Another excellent question. I don't know the answer that ones. I don't know. I don't think it does. That's why I put the research. I looked [00:36:00] at doesn't talk anything about mtor ampk.

[00:36:02] I haven't even explored that one so good right now because you know, I'm a big fan of creatine and I should have but I don't put my horn too often about too many things. But you know, I would hope people associate you with the benefits of creatine outside of especially at aging process all the guys creatine is gold.

[00:36:24] Goldwater you supplements I would take if I exercised or not. It is a true anti-aging supplement, but I'm really interested to see that supplemental creatine pumped up energy level. Hmm. That's what I'm looking. I haven't found anything by again. I I haven't I do have a good Instinct for this stuff.

[00:36:42] I may or may not be always the strongest Science Guy I've got but my instincts have always been really good for this type of stuff. You know, I usually can and my instincts tell me that it would but I have to go up. I haven't found anything but I wouldn't be surprised at all. I'm going to put Mark the Corsos question up here because I want to segue into this in this discussion [00:37:00] about rapamycin, right?

[00:37:01] So what dr. Black is glowny? Is suppressing mtor continuously is not a good idea. But these momentary mtor drops and then revivals stimulate all the benefits of turning. Senescent cells back into quiescent cells without losing the ability to have synthetic tissue synthetic responses driven by mtor the so that's why I'm totally against the whole metformin.

[00:37:35] Thing because you take it every day and I see I am seeing and I predicted this about four years ago. When all the big guys out there. Well, you know HRT got om metformin metformin. I was like nah, I don't think so. And now we're seeing bad outcomes and people who've been on Metformin for three or four years.

[00:37:51] Now. We're seeing a lot of soft tissue damage was saying snap tendons. We're seeing we're seeing body fat not them not being able to get lean which [00:38:00] they should be able to get lean. But what you forget is that. That that metformin increases insulin sensitivity in fat cells to if it just did it to muscle cells.

[00:38:11] It will be gold but it doesn't the fat cells to so but anyway, but what rat what black is glowny discovered? Is that one day a week three milligrams? Of rapamycin, which I'm about to start this protocol by the way. Well, yeah one day a week three milligrams. You have no issues with with with your immune system becoming you know easy to breach you have no issues with Flora changes in the gut.

[00:38:40] You just take the mtor death and I said to him I said Doctor blackest cloney. How is this any different than. Then just intermittent fasting he says it is because it suppresses mtor completely for about eight hours and you never have that happen. And you know, you might actually be the effect [00:39:00] of rapamycin may be in fact that you get all the benefits of CR without suffering CR.

[00:39:04] Yes that whatever didn't see our right by all my food. I mean, I you know, I mean, I guess I wouldn't I'm just not willing to eat 800 calories a day, you know to live an extra five years or whatever personal and miserably live a miserably there's a specific drug escaping me but it is specifically a signal with it that is being used right now.

[00:39:25] Actually the owner avoid offending Foundation started a separate organization that is focused on really cutting it stuff like that. The myosin it's analytics and EV infusions and so forth. That people are using and it's a similar thing use it like actually don't even use that every week like you'd like two or three times and that's it for a while, but they don't know it's pretty powerful stuff.

[00:39:44] So a big portion of the zombie Mark the Corso real quick, so I think it's silly to limit Lucy. I think it's okay. If you're going to do it intermittently through intermittent fasting. [00:40:00] I do think protein faster actually good because they will actually help you build muscle faster the bulgarians found out about this they would have their athletes eat no protein for two or three days and then go back to the normal high protein diet and they would see amazing rebounds in.

[00:40:15] Muscle growth. I think that the current starve yourself of anything that influences mtor is silly. It's silly and it's tantamount to starvation. The body needs protein. There's are there is an area of the brain. Dr. Scott Connelly talked about on my show nine or ten years ago. When they gave rodents limited protein in their Chow, the rodents eight higher caloric intake in order to reach the same protein levels that the unrestricted restricted rodents.

[00:40:46] So what I'm saying about this is that our bodies are driven to get enough protein and if you have to eat a bunch of corn chips to do that, you're just going to eat a lot more corn chips. If you're going to eat a piece of steak. You're going to eat a lot less [00:41:00] steak. I would also just quickly. If you are if you have to go to my site and brimstone and search mtor actually do specifically talk about M4 as and point lutein and is it a good idea, you know all the body building supplements always poking.

[00:41:15] You enter enter enter but is driving import constantly a good idea probably know it's a special again after a certain age. So I do talk about that, but I'd still feeling again I. I still feel like anybody that says that they understand the whole mtor pathway and effective all employers can just push it right?

[00:41:34] I'm not really again just going to jump on the I need to suppress him. You know, it seems clear that M4 has a purpose when you're younger for sure. We need it and at a certain age probably damping Down On Em for is not a bad idea. But like everything there's there's a there's a balance the balance there you overly suppressant or you're going to have a problem because they tell you.

[00:41:57] Some of these metformin is a mild M4 suppressor, [00:42:00] but for sure a lot of guys, you know are going to notice it's harder to put on muscle, you know, using your got to make a choice here. What is your choice? And you talk to now I take em, I take metformin myself. I actually found it lowered my triglyceride for matically and it rate lowered my A1C a couple points, which wasn't high but it was you know, as we age it starts to go up almost no matter what we do, but it start it wants to go up right.

[00:42:25] So when I like I guess I read enough data. I was pretty comfortable with metformin doesn't why not just Resveratrol why not just

[00:42:36] Resveratrol doesn't interrupt interrupt mtor see comparative data available. Yes, and that it again if somebody I have a whole article on Brimstone looking at on things that are not very bioavailable. And that's one of them is all kinds of Technologies trying to [00:43:00] improve, you know, where spiritual post Ali has been up to.

[00:43:04] So again, you know, if I was comfortable anything that's going to show that but you're talking about is probably going to be in vitro at that's I'm not aware of any in Vivo studies to compare those two. Well, there are there other so there's there is one human study comparing metformin to Resveratrol for blood sugar management.

[00:43:23] And it showed that Resveratrol was more effective at managing blood sugar milligram per milligram against metformin. It's an old study. It's probably eight or nine years old now. Well, so I mean, I remember seeing that and thinking well, you know, maybe Resveratrol is good for people who have glucose first anti-aging study ever approved by the FDA is on a metformin study that I will be.

[00:43:43] With bated breath looking to see what oh, I know. I know. I know the guy the guy who's behind that study. I was on my show Adam. I can't think of his name right now, but he was on my show last year last year the year before I think talking about that [00:44:00] study about that one. Oh, yeah, it does it change it changes the gut Flora.

[00:44:06] So uncomfortable with it, you know the enemy, you know old enough for free but see the problem with improved glove gut Flora is we really don't it's the same thing like we're saying we don't know. What is that really considered improving glut gut Flora try because we know you know, what we basically know is bacterial dedes and and and and and what's the other one firmicutes we know that they influence obesity.

[00:44:29] They influence energy absorption from the gut they influence energy utilization. So we just assumed. That the one that blunts absorption and increases energy utilization is associated with leanness. That's the good one, but we just don't know yet. That's really good. Yeah. Well, I don't look at the studies that actually now are suggesting actually taking for a product might be a negative because you're loading up the the GI tract with one or two specific, you know [00:45:00] bugs and probably suppressing a bunch of other good bugs.

[00:45:02] I was never a fan of again my my. Intuition always told me taking Flora products was not a great idea actually thinking taking pre floor by probably the way to go the ones that you know, that will grow will grow your own bugs for right right. I'm always I always had an eye. Spidey-sense always said I don't know if that's a great idea.

[00:45:22] Dr. Saddest Rao came on my show. He's the guy who published a study last year that really made a big noise on the internet that showed that sibo led to D lactic acidosis brain fog weakness muscle soreness, and that when he they used a very expensive. Antibiotic that's usually prescribed for two or three days for travelers distress when you get bad diarrhea, you know, you're in Mexico you take it for 2-3 days and knocks everything out.

[00:45:51] They actually did it for 20 days. It's like $1,800 for this 20-day regiment. What they found out was that when [00:46:00] it obliterated all of the microbes that had inhabited the small intestine. They are D lactic acidosis went away. Their brain fog went away their joint pain and muscle pain all went away.

[00:46:09] And so when I had them on the show, I Googled, you know for Google Trends and I looked at, you know, sibo bloating. Probiotics and they have the same exact trajectory over the past 14 years. And so I said to him do you think people are giving themselves sibo with all of these probiotics? And he thought about goes well, he goes most of the probiotic people are taking our lactic.

[00:46:34] Probiotics and that's what's causing the problem because they're they're inhabiting the small intestine where they would never be and I look will I gave this problem to myself. I when I finish that show I thought to myself you dumbass. I was taking two packets of vsl. Number three a total of 900 billion cfus a day pounding down fibrous protein bars, and I ended [00:47:00] up with sibo I gave it to myself.

[00:47:04] Well, I answered. Yeah get it doesn't it doesn't surprise myself. I've always been more optimistic about prebiotics. Did I figure at least that is encouraging your own stuff to grow at its own its own rate and its own location going to the track and supposed to versus probiotics probiotics have always made me nervous.

[00:47:22] I've never been comfortable with even though I didn't have data or whatever. I just wasn't, you know comfortable again certain people in certain. Positions part like some people a certain investment illnesses seem to benefit from like yogurts and stuff. There may be again maybe in it and they may be lacking asset.

[00:47:39] You know, they might be the opposite. Yeah, but on a sort of general I'm going to take probiotics. I've never been comfortable. Yeah further and Mark you're right. We have to start asking ourselves why we are on unhealthy and that is absolutely the key to answering these questions. I want to take a quick commercial break and when we come back, we've got lots more questions.

[00:47:57] I want you to weigh in I want you to tell me what you think. [00:48:00] About NAD after your research. Is it something that you think we should be spending our money on stay tuned. We'll be right back. I just want to remind people. We're giving away a $600 pair of power block Quick Change dumbbells at superhuman radio dotnet.

[00:48:14] If you go there all you have to do sign up for our newsletter and you're entered May 31st. We will announce the winner. Don't miss this opportunity. Check it out. We're talking with will break. His website is Brink Zone. It's really a great website. You can learn a lot of good stuff there. I can't get the image to go away.

[00:48:31] Now. Is that wonderful, okay. It'll go away eventually anyway, so we have some other questions that the first question I want to ask you is. What do you think? Do you think that this is something that people should consider adding to their? You know at this point the only the only reason I hesitated with the stomach spent it shouldn't be but that's kind of where I'm I'm optimistic [00:49:00] about the benefits of it, you know where I'm still in the I'm still in the I want to see more data face for sure, but I'm optimistic enough to say if one wanted to add it in.

[00:49:11] I think I'm fairly confident as you know potential benefit there. But the problem is the price the cost of the spec, you know, I mean how many you're going, you know add so many things into your your intake and efficient if somebody's got the money and they know they want to add it in. I sound like a benefit the other issue is goes because even the human studies that I've seen these were not low doses, you know, we're talking about 1 a.m.

[00:49:34] 2 grams and ethics party. So we wait. These are Grim to Graham's orally or intravenously, but but but you know, I actually am going to reach out to a guy after the show today to ask him if he could make me a sterile injectable version of NAD. He can synthesize anything he wants so I'm going to just [00:50:00] see if you know I'm asking for nad+.

[00:50:06] Well, you know, I guess I've done one infusion. I'll probably do two more. You know, I'm going to put I would put that under worth a try because again, this is anecdotal but pretty consistent. A lot of people they do report elevated mood better sleep interestingly, which I only discovered looking, you know that any D+ confusion that the need for decades for our booth people.

[00:50:32] Well, yeah a long time decades has been used for that again. Not a whole lot of data, but quite a bit of clinical experience and a lot of people claim that the they're they're craving for booze and stuff is either goes away or is there greatly reduced that's a trial by those nad+ infusion. So I would definitely say again if you know somebody who's looking to try something that you know appears harmless enough, I would say give it a try.

[00:50:59] Yeah, [00:51:00] I mean. I've heard it's always I really I know I'm just very careful about this because you know people the greater the intervention right the great of the placebo effect. You're right. Your brain is really set up to getting the benefit and that's like the number the HCG diet that piece of shit, you know, I work for me, but when you had to inject yourself with something every day, well never mind that you you eating 600 friggin calories a day.

[00:51:26] Yeah, so 600 calories, but. Yeah, one of the reasons people were so convinced. They felt different on the HCG and all that with the sa because the intervention is is the greater the intervention the the more convinced your presentation the more expectation that mean a HCG definitely does something there's no doubt about it whether or not it's valuable for for dieting.

[00:51:44] I don't know of course it's open and they have all kinds of effects, you know in the trt HRT realm for sure. 500 million only 500 milligrams I think so. Maybe he's even laughs whatever it was for dos. It wasn't enough 250 150 I use so it's of no use for weight [00:52:00] loss. So how many milligrams how many milligrams was the injectable?

[00:52:03] I mean the the intravenous NAD plus 500 500 milligrams in a big old saline bag actually even did a video of anybody goes to anybody goes to bring enough bring something with my Facebook page. You'll see I actually did it while I talk to the doctor came in and talked. Is there with Tanya Schultz and we were there talking while I was being felt it was about a 90 minutes.

[00:52:25] I mean some people you can feel that it feels almost like a very mild niacin flush. Obviously based on I am like warm you feel the warm sort of fuzzy feeling. Yeah, some people can get a you know, a little nauseous. So if you do we just slow it down to you know, if you might be there well trying to be fast I was like 90 minutes, but I'm going to go.

[00:52:46] Yeah, I'm going to try to go do all three of them is again everybody who said. People doing it clinically seem to say that, you know there really notice the benefits after that second and third one but people would say specific diseases may be neurological diseases [00:53:00] brain related stuff. They don't know what that might be like five and there may be a person of other stuff you might add in there.

[00:53:07] So Mark buescher has a good question and this is actually one of the questions. I was going to ask because I did see a study that made reference to protecting. Perhaps NAD may protect against certain cancers. So Mark says is Raising nad+ levels later in life. Should it be worried about possibly fueling an unknown cancer?

[00:53:28] I'm not saying that it causes cancer on its own but I've seen what seems to be legitimate concerns that it might Fuel and existing cancer will help sugar. Does that too? Well? I'll mark when I get a chance. I'll click on that study in dorian's but I obviously can't do it right now. My case right now would be that as always there's like it's like gah gah could fuel tumors, but it's also boost the immune system.

[00:53:52] What is the end and low NAD is absolutely associated with more cancers [00:54:00] immune suppression and so forth. So my instincts currently would say no, you're the bet the benefits of the effects on immune system and General Health out way. You know the what effects could be but again verify with cancer that every Cancer is different.

[00:54:14] These are very every Cancer to completely unique animal as to what what it what makes it grow some things that will grow cancers will swing other Cancers and so on and so like what are we gonna say sugar? Absolutely shit is certain cancers live on glucose, but some cancers it doesn't seem to matter how some glue some cancers live on with iodine.

[00:54:32] Well, they don't care they live on Lucy. The answer like the best answer I could give way would be maybe it depends on the cancer but cancer is amazing amazing in that it's an evolution. It's that I actually did a show about three years ago with a scientist who showed that a cancer was an evolutionarily.

[00:54:51] Sell it understands when it's being threatened and understands how to reproduce quickly and understands how to protect itself and this and how to hide to hide from the immune [00:55:00] system and actually cloaks itself from the but more importantly what I learned from that discussion that I've ever been saying like it's my own brain to that came with but he said he said, you know as an evolutionary dominant cell cancer leverages.

[00:55:16] Everything that is good for other cell so anything that's good for healthy cells cancer gobbles it up gobbles it up. So it could you know, that's why when I see studies that show there was an accumulation of this in tumor cells there was accumulated I do not immediately think that drove the tumor cell what I think is that's a really important molecule because cancer is holding onto a lot of it for a while.

[00:55:45] A lot of pain example is a big Tito craze because they say well if they cancer lives on glucose will starve it of glucose. Well, there's certain cancer cells that love Quito and do just fine. Yes brain cancers. I think that if anything they prefer, you [00:56:00] know, it's really can't make those General statements.

[00:56:03] I could say that the possibility exists dependent on the cancer, but I tend to think that the the net benefit of to immune system. And all that is probably outweighs the the cancer part, you know, what is cancer cancer the failure of the immune system obviously to detect and go after you know a cancer.

[00:56:21] So the answer is nobody knows my my general Instinct says worst case we depend on the cancer, you know. Yeah that we wouldn't be able to but I will look at that link I said so is NAD is is nuclei of is the dri beside version of the right beside version. Is it highly bioavailable like taking two grams does two grams actually get into your body?

[00:56:46] No, right. There's not enough. I think it's pretty bioavailable. I haven't looked specific bioavailability study. Where is my say there's been a couple of there's one. I've linked actually in my article and bring some [00:57:00] there's one human proof-of-concept study team to be well absorbed as far as I know, but I honestly it's a good question.

[00:57:06] I don't think I don't know if anybody's done like pharmacokinetics pharmacodynamics, you know Tracer type study. Yeah. This is all selfish. This question is selfish course. I'm actually. Texting a guy right now to ask him if he could make me injectable nad+ and he said to me how much would you want and I'm like well if should I take like you said 500 milligrams in that Ivy but maybe taking 25 milligrams a day Sub-Q.

[00:57:35] You know over the course of weeks would do something good. But if you're taking it for you're taking it by by injection and you know bioavailability monotonous that will that bunch of what I was trying to come up with was if you would have said to me. Oh, it's only 50% bioavailable and they're taken to grams.

[00:57:49] That means a thousand milligrams is magic. So I'd be like, oh I would need to inject at [00:58:00] least 5 hours, you know kind of back it down. Yeah. Really pretty point I'm gonna I'm gonna look for that. I'm going to look because I'm going I'm telling everybody who's watching this show right now and listening to the show right now.

[00:58:12] I promise you that within the next couple of months. I'm gonna have an injectable NAD plus and I don't have to worry about chroma decks because it's not the NR and that's it. What would you say? I would say there's been pretty good responses to subjectively to the. These are infusion. But again, it's a it's a daily thing but there's actually there's not one really interesting study that almost suggests that NR may even be superior and there's a doc I have to look into but he actually I believe you offers and are infusing versus energy and how is he doing that with chroma decks he getting I mean, how is it he's getting but raw material.

[00:58:49] Yeah. I think you can even buy it. I mean it just you're not starting. Oh, yeah. They said they went back to selling it. Yeah, I don't think. You know because they didn't hasn't worked out the way they wanted [00:59:00] putting off Elysium. I guess they have her backpack and are allowing people one of you know, obviously you're not selling it or making any planes or something.

[00:59:07] I you can buy raw bacon by Ryan are I don't know how production-wise I don't know how locked up it is by them and all that but there's plenty of docks and companies that don't have it. Is there some possibility that NR is actually Superior even intravenously been in any so I would have to okay so so it would have been an injectable.

[00:59:29] NR. Okay, maybe maybe a blend. How about an injectable? Nr+, nad+? I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it but I want to use I want to use it to I want to use it too. And we're obviously does the important part which I haven't done but is being done needs to be done is objective measures before and after blood work.

[00:59:52] So I do know that there are some people were trying to set up right now. I'm involved with this fine to help the owner avoid attention stuff set [01:00:00] up some at least do some you know pre and post for the work, you know, because try to get some objective measures. So our again, we're really just talking, you know, subjective stuff.

[01:00:10] And we right now of course. The one of the issues is we'll what do you look for? What is the indicator when you have to do a punch biopsy and look at tissue levels? Well, I think that's all we're saying we know we can raise. Tissue on it privates that the work the hard part now, right? Well levels bad we can we can raise it.

[01:00:28] Yes, and the part where I'm at now is what benefits do we get the vitamin D the you know, all the details of that. So I think we're really at that point where we're not trying to see if the tissue raise the you know, biopsy we want to see doesn't do anything right did the. No, blood pressure go down.

[01:00:46] A lot of people do report lowered blood pressure from it. Did plus we'll go time. Just making stuff up as I go along. Yeah did the T-cell, you know, the piece of right? I'm all right, but we really need to take to the next step is to look at [01:01:00] objective measure. A benefit because River Arnon again.

[01:01:10] Why are we you know,

[01:01:19] yeah. Why are we even bothering with it right back to glutamine? We can be for the you know, I'm not a big fan of icky but there are medical specific medical use of region B and glutamine absolutely is good for if you got Crohn's or, you know IDs or whatever but as far as the healthy body builder wants to add muscle it's utterly and remember back in the day when you walked into a store to buy.

[01:01:45] Especially if it was not a sugar fide version, you know the big jug and it had 20 servings and it was all dextrose. But whenever you went into the to the the the support for 90 grams 90 grams of glucose or dextrose for [01:02:00] service. Yeah and 5 grams of I know remember that and and people wondered why they were getting fat and but if back in the day when you went in to buy creatine, they always told you all, you know, you got to take it with glutamine or it doesn't work.

[01:02:11] Do you remember that? Oh boy big lie. I don't remember that as a sort of a lock a lock in thing or anything. But yeah, what is it? What are the medical reasons for taking hmb? And then we have a question from Darcy Clark for you. I think I think that endemic as an aging population sarcopenia wasting diseases the texting and stuff.

[01:02:34] They can be again. Remember you're bypassing all those take that versus taking Lucy and making the body make all those conversion of which apparently again is. Splash medication aging probably reduces that getting down to that that hmb, right? We can be probably would be very useful in those very general population.

[01:02:53] Yeah aging will exit the texture or sarcopenia core, whatever but us healthy people who work out eat pretty [01:03:00] well. We you know taking a good way or you know, good BCA type protein doesn't appear to have any benefit. And the data shows that I mean, you know, we got many studies in healthy people other than one that is so ridiculous that everybody's question get him.

[01:03:13] I don't retract it or not. It came out a couple years ago and you guys put on. They put on like as much line body mass is they had an adult animal everybody look at it was like there is no way this took place. Yeah, and even Thanksgiving Community vote in very rare for scientists refer other scientists under the boss.

[01:03:30] Right? Some came out and wrote a very long letter and signed by all bunch of people that there is no way to start place and either your number crunching. I'm not going to name names, but it's not hard to find it with ones. Too good to be true H&B study that came out a few years. I remember I remember.

[01:03:44] Yeah, it's a reason why everybody everybody started buying hmb again. It was like cuz commonly kindly introduced. Hm be back in when he had met. He was with metrics right Mike. So here this is a question [01:04:00] from. Listen was the guy the original guys still in the ballpark and they have teamed up with tunnel may be teamed up because Connolly own for a while.

[01:04:18] Connolly actually had a patent on hmb. For healthy people, you know doing regular stuff in easy, but one study maybe under a dentist Pacifica editions of like severe overtraining and overreaching which they tend to be a paid of overreaching a certain program. Maybe that's the place to you. All right, but only so Darcy Clark said to get you to talk about how you like to take creatine.

[01:04:43] He said you made a vow video. A long time ago about warming up water and dissolving in water beside and he said he said he said he likes to add a teaspoon of sodium bicarbonate and a pinch of Redmond sea salt to it. Well, that was the [01:05:00] most popular video I ever did and I still stick to it and some people don't like it.

[01:05:05] But basically I've always recommended dissolving creatine in hot water. Free soluble Isaac because creatine is not particularly soluble and it has to be solubilized to be, you know to be updated or yeah transported and all that happy fly a bunch of creatine while it's a type of conic. It's going to pull water into the gastrointestinal system solubilized and do its thing.

[01:05:30] So why not, you know want to blend it in there that way right? Exactly. Yeah that way, you know, and I will tell you that. I don't know if it improves absorption or not. But I will tell you that for all the people that have gi problems with creatine. That's all of it 99% of the time the gun deal.

[01:05:49] Yeah, and it makes sense because the the GI problems of as a result of osmotic diarrhea because of what you just said is pulling fluid into the intestines with it when people give me a hard time about [01:06:00] that I point out to them. They know how if they go and read the early studies the first study that showed all the benefits the agreeing ha hot tea and hot coffee interesting how they were served and they didn't even realize that that had that had a role in it and why it was palatable.

[01:06:19] Well again, I think it was to make sure that that those taking it because people are very different varies if you know now we've been learning more than ever but people are very different, you know. Digestion absorption capabilities and he of course to sort of you not have that be a problem and here the gastrointestinal problem served all of it.

[01:06:36] And when I talk to bring hop by email, he said yeah when you later on, you know, a lot of studies don't worry solubilize about any time people came to me with stomach problems or whatever, you know, that's how I told him to take it. So, so what Y is so I can understand why Darcy Clark puts. Sodium bicarbonate in there because there's this whole alkalizing movement on creatine monohydrate [01:07:00] because the stomach acids and blah blah blah see you buffering it but why would why would he put an additional sodium chloride in there?

[01:07:07] Does that help shuttle? Anything does it help cause it the whole buffer the entire buffered creatine was you know again a thing and it was based on completely faulty science from the people who sold it. If you go to my Brimstone and piping buffered creatine a study was done at Texas A&M that showed it was less effective than monohydrate not even equally effective at play.

[01:07:28] Mike was it is monohydrate, but it's Obama basically a basically cheap-ass buffer solve it, you know, it's just a ridiculous thing and there's no there's no there's no benefit anything might be a negative. However, there's a lot of benefits to taking a sodium bicarbonate. There appears to be a bunch of benefits to it.

[01:07:48] There is also a performance benefit that I was going to say. There's that I'm not against it at all. But I don't think you're not going to get the second effect of creatine per se right. The only thing I don't like about sodium [01:08:00] bicarbonate sodium, you know, you're adding a fair amount of sodium current big deal, but you know, there was a study not long ago that sound found that just the ingesting a teaspoon of sodium bicarb to become amazing thing for gut flora and there was a bunch of real better.

[01:08:13] I don't remember what the. Benefits were so not a bad idea. But the whole the whole alkalizing of creatine. Yeah, that's not where the magic is. That's how the magic is completely marketing nonsense. That would be bummed and like a lot of a matter. We got a whole show about the magic creatine. So how many Magic reasons they've been but that was another peak of magic creatine buffer buffer.

[01:08:33] It's the greatest up in the world and it sold a gazillion and now. I don't know what they sell but it's no wonder the magic reason so so I got some magic trading card into a few is no hcl's now the magical part. Now what you know, yeah the HCL I took that back in the day that used to be available taste Terrible by the way, but I remember when Patrick Arnold introduces his creatine phosphate.

[01:08:59] Granted [01:09:00] that gave me the diarrhea that gave me tear I couldn't take it. I took it like three times. I was like, I can't keep doing this. This isn't going to work never tried. It was pretty much a hundred works. I don't really understand why people keep wanted to reinvent the wheel on with that.

[01:09:12] It's there. It's about it's about the money. It's about the money. Then we're at the reality is there's no margins on creatine monohydrate anymore and therefore to make any money off any creatine. You got to come up with a new. Super duper yeah market and sell the shit out of until somebody has a study and showed it's crap and start over again is not perfect and they just run soluble and HCL actually maybe a little better in that department with no budget no data, you know, but hey, so put put so put it in hot water big deal and let it and let the water cool.

[01:09:41] It'll be solubilized and it just drink it down. That's it. That's just that seems like an easy thing to do even better. And we haven't talked about my bomb proof coffee recipe that no, I want to know what it is because I see you talking about it all the time. And I know you use black right you use Black Rifle coffee, right?

[01:09:56] Yeah the way that I get my body my creatine as I put it in [01:10:00] my coffee every morning will only my bumper coffee. So tell me what bomb-proof coffee recipe is in a nutshell Tanya website. I know that yes Babu coffee is obviously good coffee creatine tyrosine and cocoa X and cocoa good cocoa. Put an app although tab in some synergism.

[01:10:20] There's good data. They're all have overlapping benefits. There are synergies between thinking caffeine and tyrosine tyrosine is a very rare battle that will Elevate mood. Yeah, very well-known anti-stress nutrients that good day to be I don't do stuff without data and one like, you know, some people right.

[01:10:37] And basically a little bit of coconut oil not because of any magic the nobody should you know talk it is not magic stuff. But what I like to do is I put a little coconut and and milk and I fought it and it makes like an Emulsion. Yeah. Yeah because of the oil. Yeah also the some of the compounds in cocoa and sorrowful not very soluble.

[01:10:56] So I think you're going to get when you make that emotion. You're probably improving and it [01:11:00] tastes freaking fantastic the Wonder now, there's that other one that puts a half a stick of butter and a bunch of you know, I call that the let I call that the reverse Last Tango in Paris coffee, because instead of getting the butter stuck up your butt.

[01:11:12] It comes out the other way. Wow, and while the come up with bumper coffee. Well, I did a review of the other one and I gave the very feel review again. I think if you want to Quito and stuff, which is another topic if you're on keto and all that and you want to put butter in your coffee, and you know, that's it makes sense in that context.

[01:11:28] That's not where I would want to get my fat from but I mean in those there's a context you could use. Other than that, you know, the all the claims involve mountain and somebody said well, okay smart guy. You know, what would you put in Bobby man? I love thought telling me, you know what challenge accepted I am going to look into what would make the most sense in coffee.

[01:11:48] From a from a health perspective and a performer and performance. But really you looking at brain performance physical problems. Remember there's a ton of benefits neurological benefits to creatine right? There's a bunch of [01:12:00] been tyrosine to and side and cocoa to rule number one. Either have to have no effect on the taste of the coffee or it's got a benefit the case of the car.

[01:12:09] Both all you know obviously don't break Rule Number 1 right? Because if you add it it tastes like shit. Well, I don't care how great you don't ruin my coffee right where it's got to have data and for it's got to make sense with the rest of them hence bomb-proof up and then what about adding the I know you probably have people do this to you all the time.

[01:12:26] Well, what about adding what about adding just a little bit of touring to it? Maybe it 3/4 of a gram of it touring the only welcome it can't break rule number one. Much growing up potatoes between doesn't have any flavor. So we work with a lot of people will say stuff and I'll go don't try it'll ruin the coffee though.

[01:12:43] There wasn't right for in would be fine. My only issue that I would worry about and have to look into this does it was it going to is it going to affect the absorption of the Kyrie 2 pi Rosie needs to be taken a lot of away from all other for others, you know logging under oath you Romeo acids [01:13:00] and you can take with carbs and it doesn't block it.

[01:13:02] That would be my main. For remember also that things like touring and tires and defend only working like gram amount you put 200 millimeter. You've got to put the lowest dose of tyrosine. I found these two but our studies are concerned and put a much higher than that, right? So my major concern would be that if we if you can find the studies and I am look, right what do confirm but I take it separately.

[01:13:25] You take a pre-workout. No, I just sort of like what are you like so much stuff. I got his finding window to take the stuff, but I kind of you know, if I'm if I'm happy and I'll just dump it in some water or something whenever I can get the Tauranga but I'm a fan of Corey. Yeah, me too. I really want what we're really looking to do is that those precursors to epinephrine and norepinephrine and thyroid is all Pirates, you know dopamine.

[01:13:47] It's all tyrosine and there's been some really interesting studies done by MIT by NASA by Navy special Warfare with Navy Seals. Where they sent basically took two groups of Navy Seals [01:14:00] and one got the tires and wondering they put them on the winter Warfare and which is called and they came back and made them do cognitive tests.

[01:14:06] And only the guys getting the tires and were able to do the same Target effect because you know when you go out in the cold, yeah, I'm back just tighten down each right for you that you know all of your precursors to the you know, norepinephrine dopamine so I only get the bad idea but. Just one of those things I have to look into it.

[01:14:24] But for rule number one is you can't ruin the taste of the coffee into it can interfere with anything else, right? So this I'm going to let this last question through its kind of because it kind of fits into the discussion. What are your thoughts on using nicotine as a nootropic? That's you know, that's a good question.

[01:14:41] It's one of those things. Of course, if you know, it's you got to be careful. You know, there's a lot of good nootropics out there that. I think would be one of those things that use sparingly, you know, obviously it's you know, rather addicted and habit forming and know it's addictive it [01:15:00] actually increases bdnf in the area of the brain that it affects.

[01:15:03] So it creates a greater craving the more you use and of course it works. Nicotine for example is a pretty I hate to say this because I don't want people to do it but it's a pretty good weight loss, you know during dieting. I've had you know people that I work with and stuff, you know to nicotine gum for the period of the diet only IE to suppress to suppress appetite or to increased metabolic rate or both energy, you know, you're tired the whole deal, but it's a nootropic but.

[01:15:42] What Ritalin and stuff but I don't recommend male work, but I don't off again. I don't like Widow. I tried it once and see what it would do. And I did not I like things to bring me down by I'm at the AAA type personality. I'd knowledge. Give me other than my coffee. All right, and that's another topic is caffeine and coffee and not [01:16:00] interchangeable.

[01:16:00] Bobby has different effects than caffeine, which again study showing people's interchange them any but it takes drinks a cup of coffee. That's got say. You want two milligrams of caffeine in it or take synthetic caffeine will tell you there is night and day difference between right and coffee.

[01:16:15] Like a lot of Natural Things has a lot of counter balancing compounds in it back, you know, so I told the answer the question. Yes. It is an effective nootropic that I. Very sparingly, you know on record. I can't take it. I did a show with Anthony Roberts three years ago on the Forgotten nootropic nicotine and because like back in the day on the forums the bodybuilding forums people using it for all sorts of reasons when I use those nicotine gum.

[01:16:44] I get this warm clammy feeling and I just don't like it. I don't like the way it makes me feel right? I just give it to me. I just be all any of those things that you know, Perk you up. Give me and make me racy and anxiety and they don't they don't some people [01:17:00] get very. You know on that type of thing I had before me that's not the way it works.

[01:17:03] Microdose LSD works for me. I haven't been doing it for a while. Yeah, that's a whole other thing. I'd like I've never done I can send you I'll send you a source that you can buy it at to it's legit and it's actually one PLS D which is the precursor. It takes about 35 to 40 minutes to kick in but it's everything and a lot of and I'm very interested.

[01:17:25] Yeah part of the whole other interesting. I mean, there's multiple studies now that show that one dose of psilocybin elevated depression for six months. I know, you know, he's an amazing. I college of London. The College of London is doing a study right now on low-dose LSD for major depressive disorder and the Rumblings coming out of there.

[01:17:44] It's like it's. There are psychiatrist and stuff identified lots of benefits to LSD. But unfortunately, you know, Timothy leader and kind of went off the deep end and then we you know, then it's like everything there's a high abuse potential for it [01:18:00] and then Beauregard's team, you know came on but we're making a circle back and it'll ketamine ketamine is being approved by the actual.

[01:18:08] Okay. Yeah. Yeah evil play for PTSD. So this is interesting. I had dr. Bruce Ames on my show 10 years ago. Ten years ago, maybe 11 talking about methylene blue. Methylene blue is a 100 year old died. It's actually the first die that they use to die specimens that they were looking at in microscopes.

[01:18:30] And today it's been shown to not only improve cognition, but it can actually reverse Alzheimer's disease at very low doses a hundred milligrams a day. I bought some years ago. It's messy it gets on everything you poop blue up' blue for fish like this. Yeah, when they get when they get tail when they get tail rot, you put methylene blue in the water [01:19:00] 10 10 years ago.

[01:19:02] And you know, dr. Bruce Ames is he's the guy who came up with the aims score. He has that the way to give out to check what things are carcinogenic. Give me the guy was brilliant. He was so nice. He came on the show for the early proponent of methylene blue. Oh, yeah, he was saying but did he said you can't get anybody to pay attention because the pharmaceutical company can't do anything with it can't be patented.

[01:19:20] It's a hundred year old died. Right? So everybody just ignored it. It's actually also a monoamine oxidase inhibitor mild Mao I as well. Well, there you go. I mean God doesn't buy that anyway. Yeah, but but you got to buy the so then you got to buy something. That's good for humans. I actually thought about just going to pet shop and get Nick put a couple drops off my tongue.

[01:19:43] Yeah, I would do that. I'm different than you. I am I'm one of those I'm a wistar rat I go out and experiment on myself. Yeah. Oh, yeah. There you go. I am really interested [01:20:00] in the end the psychogenic Psychedelic stuff as far as cognition. Is that because I think those might work as really good nootropic the Jitters in the you know, and anxiety and all that stuff like so any any person other than coffee.

[01:20:12] I don't like anything. That just makes me anxious. I found some magic. I've been experimenting with see link and see Max and I will be experimenting with. I will be experimenting with cerebral Eisen very shortly. Yes, so Kurt Yaeger points out because it is it is a an MAOI inhibitors. You should take him with an SSRI.

[01:20:38] Yes, that's right. Knowing the millions of people across our methodology. That's a sad statement right there. And we need to close our show on that list. Will it's always wonderful to hang out with you. I want to hang out with you and person because you and I have Brooklyn guys and talking to you.

[01:20:51] It's like just going back in time for me. You know, what we should do the show with with. With whiskey I've been guessing. Yeah, I'll do that. [01:21:00] Would you do it in person drinking whiskey and just go like off the yeah, and and the more we drink the more and outlandish our ideas over here would be a good idea.

[01:21:13] There you go black label in Black Rifle coffee. There you go will next time I'm in Louisville, Kentucky. I'm not far from you. You're in Florida, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hi, brother. Thanks for being here today, huh? All right guys, and thanks everybody for watching the show and we will see you tomorrow with more superhuman radio, you know, this is just the beginning of the week.

[01:21:31] We got some really great shows this week. We're gonna we're gonna have the scientist who worked on pulsed electromagnetic fields for NASA on the show this Wednesday to talk about best practices and what really can pmf do and this won't BBS from some marketing hype. So make sure to listen to that one.

[01:21:51] I will see you by tomorrow with more superhuman radio. Thank you for [01:22:00] listening