[00:00:00] I'm telling you. I am more monkey than human because whenever I see my mug on the little monitor over here, I smile at it. I mean, I know I'm 14% Northern African but I gotta I gotta believe I got a little chimpanzee in me too. This is a long awaited show and I'm gonna I'm just gonna bring my guest on real quick.

[00:00:50] Hold on a second.  How you doing bill? I'm well, how are you? Good. So this is the long-awaited show and I own you upon an apology the dates back for [00:01:00] a very very long time ago.  And what well minutes I'm going to tell you I'm going to tell you but and I was so disappointed because I was all prepared to do this.

[00:01:10] May a Copa and we almost didn't connect this one's like. Oh great. This is great. But no a very long time ago in the beginning of my career probably around 2006. I saw that a lot of negative podcast. We're getting or radio shows. We're getting a lot of attention. So I thought I would try to do something negative and I actually interviewed Anthony Roberts and you were talked about in the interview and you weren't talked about in a favorable way and I never did another interview like that again.

[00:01:38] And I don't know if you remember that but I do it's kind of like one of those Alcoholics Anonymous guys. You gotta go by before you leave the planet. You gotta apologize to everybody. You did something bad to so I just want to get that I had a guest on and I remember Anthony of course, but yeah, well that's I just wanted to leave that there.

[00:01:56] So anyway, I saw I saw a [00:02:00] very interesting post of yours on Facebook the other day. I was like I have to get this guy on. And people probably going to be a little confused why I felt it was so important to talk about this but you you now have I just want to set the table you now have a way that people can in their own home test the quality of their growth hormone, is that correct?

[00:02:19] Well, they can detect test whether or not there's so much for open it and it's yeah, it's an antibody taste based test. So it's really accurate. Okay, so so and I want to I want to set the stage here. Okay, because I want to talk about the fact that right. Now if people are people like buying legit growth hormone through their compounding pharmacist the reality is that.

[00:02:45] Few of any compounding pharmacist pharmacists have synthesizing or recombinant technology on the on the premises. So they're buying all their raw materials from someplace else. Would you agree with that statement? Yeah. Yeah. [00:03:00] Yeah for sure. They're going through pharmaceutical, you know producers and stuff right and even big Pharma.

[00:03:07] Buys raw materials from China I happen to know a girl that worked for Genentech who told me that they had Partners. I got to look for the camera so I can get my parentheses in it my quotation marks Partners in China that they bought raw materials for to produce there. Growth hormone product me she confided this in me and I believe her she's a she's a really decent human being so the illusion that well, I don't have to worry about this.

[00:03:33] These guys are talking about underground lab stuff and body building stuff and I get my growth hormone from my pharmacist. The reality is that there's no proof that that's legit growth hormone either just because of its origin isn't that a true statement? You may not want to go there but I'm going to go there.

[00:03:50] Well, you know what it is. It's. There is a lot of legitimate pharmaceutical manufacturer happening overseas me [00:04:00] personally. I mean, there's protocols that are supposed to be follow. They're supposed to be purchasing from only a license supplier. It should be tested. There should be all the paperwork whatever we have in the supplement industry.

[00:04:10] It's you know, it's magnified in the pharmaceutical field. So me personally if I was having a script from. A you know a known Compounding Pharmacy on that. The my position was ordering it was going through a good compounding pharmacy. I wouldn't worry about it that much. It's not a you know, I'm not going to say it's a terrible idea to test if you're if you have concern from.

[00:04:36] Black Market, it's you know, it's it's really bad in terms of quality. And you know, yeah, no get no doubt, but I I remember so I re I know. Um legitimate longevity clinics that were buying blue tops when we will all on the boards buying blue tops back in the day, right and they will putting labels on [00:05:00] them and they were having boxes made and right you remember that right that I would be more gal.

[00:05:05] Sorry. I know the products. Yeah very well and I know interestingly a lot of that not all but a lot of the Chinese product that was coming out, you know. We didn't test the time of it. But when we saw a test on it or did testing on it was actually pretty good one time there the Purity was higher in what was the ginger open tested a ginger open product and they actually hope you are and we compared it to a pharmaceutical product.

[00:05:34] I'm not going to say the names on I get in trouble but and the pharmaceutical product was also you know of acceptable quality, but the fury was a little lower on the farmer product and the. You know, that's kind of interesting. So but the reality is that I'm not trying to imply that all it's all bunk.

[00:05:52] Even if you getting it from your pharmacist, but what I am trying to imply is that. It's all coming from generally simps the [00:06:00] same sources the stuff that we're buying on the black market. Sometimes it's coming from the same facilities all overseas as the stuff that ends up reaching a pharmaceutical company.

[00:06:12] And so I I kind of feel like yeah, you know, if you're getting your growth hormone from a compounding pharmacist, you probably don't have to test it. But don't you want to know don't you want to know like don't you want to go now that you could do it in your own home don't you want to go, you know because otherwise I'd want to go back to the pharmacy.

[00:06:32] I've been buying this stuff from you for two years. This is expensive stuff. Look how it tested like has anyone Mass Spec this stuff to verify. Oh no, we don't do that. We we take their COA. Oh, we're back to the supplement industry. Now, you know what? I mean? Yeah. Well, that's the thing right?

[00:06:45] It's the supplier if you have certainly if you have concerns and there's a product that you know, it would appear to be. You know the type of item you find on the black market as opposed to, you know, being handled and labeled by, you know, [00:07:00] an actual known Drug Company. Yeah, it's certainly on a bad idea.

[00:07:04] And as you know and the supplement industry crazy stuff happens, you can't say that the the drug industry is completely immune to that kind of thing, especially when you're kind of when you talk into the gray area ordering stuff from overseas. And yeah. Drug, a drug company drug companies put stuff out that has to be recalled all the time and it's recalled because something that wasn't supposed to be in there is in there or something that was supposed to been in there isn't and so these are the same, you know, so this kind and a lot of times that stuff comes back down to the raw materials, you know, sure.

[00:07:35] I think it's interesting that. Now we're seeing we're seeing more and more companies literally synthesizing with amino acid sequences as opposed to recombinant technology and producing growth hormone and even peptides as long as 296 amino acids now, they're able to synthesize so. Now that where I mean when you think about how [00:08:00] recombinant what we don't want you explain how recombinant technology works.

[00:08:05] So the people have a better understanding of how they have been making growth hormone for a long time since we stopped extracting it from cadavers. There's a little outside my area of expertise but they're actually taking a cell line and they're putting the sequence for the production of the very large complicated protein and stimulating the cell to produce it as a product and then they capture it and purify it and and so the the the the way I explain it because I'm not you know is intelligent almost as most of you guys is they they feed e-coli.

[00:08:41] A bunch of raw isolated amino acids and the E.coli eats it and poops back out growth hormone, but a lot of times it doesn't poop out growth hormone. It poops out aggregate so they have to use special processes to wash the bad stuff out and some of [00:09:00] those things remain behind that they use to wash it out.

[00:09:05] Which isn't good either but now with this new synthesis synthesizing process using amino acid sequences. They can actually produce like a kilo of growth hormone in an afternoon. Now, I mean, I have actually been to a facility there's a facility in Kentucky called tailor-made compounding and they they don't know that they synthesize growth hormone, but they synthesize every other peptide that you could imagine.

[00:09:31] And it comes out nice clean jars and they Mass Spec it and make sure that it's reaches their their requirements. But there's no more of this ecoli or using any type of things to wash impurities out. So that's kind of exciting. Yeah. Yeah. So so so the reality is that it's a real hit and miss type of a thing making growth hormone.

[00:09:55] If you're not using this new synthesis ation process, if you're still using recombinant, [00:10:00] which justifies people testing their growth hormone, no matter who they're getting it from in my humble opinion. I mean, I'm an I'm an advocate for your product for the average guy or girl who's dropping four hundred dollars a month at their HRT clinic for growth hormone to say to at least say to themselves.

[00:10:17] It really is growth hormone, you know test it once every six months, you know, really is growth hormone. And you know, what is happening a lot is that the the suppliers and again, it's you know, it's not a widespread. It's happening with every product but some of the suppliers they will put the peptides like the ghr peas.

[00:10:39] Um, you know, those type of compounds which are easier to produce cheaper to produce the put those in place of Summer open and then knowing that often when people are testing it their way of testing it is to go get a blood test for the serum growth hormone level. So they see that elevation. And they're fooled into thinking [00:11:00] that they've actually purchased that expensive product and you're absolutely right.

[00:11:03] It's not a minimum hundreds of dollars a month people invested thousands into cycles. And I personally think if you're going to put that kind of investment into something so in a hundred dollars on a test just to see if it's actually bake said so so do you feel that this test this in home test and we're going to I'm going to I'm going to let you explain how it works and all that sort of stuff.

[00:11:24] You think it's as reliable as mass spectrometry. Trauma tree, which is the the gold the gold standard for assessing the quality of growth hormone.  Well, I would never say that that an at-home test will be will have the accuracy and the data that you would receive from you. No more complex tests on the protein in a lab.

[00:11:47] However, this test, you know, we do the reagents with the anabolic steroids and. Those we've got that to a point where it's it's really accurate, especially with some of the more [00:12:00] expensive anabolics. It's highly accurate, but it's based on some some. Just some general chemical chemical reactions, right so it can be fooled.

[00:12:12] Potentially. We haven't found the compounds yet that can full of for particular steroids. But in theory, there are other compounds out there that could produce similar color reactions. So to always say, you know, it's not. You want to go to a lab test if you truly want to know what's in it, how much is it?

[00:12:29] Any also can't kick want quantitative. However with the the growth hormone test, it's based on the growth hormone antibody so that antibody has to bind the growth hormone to get the reaction that we're looking for in the test. So in that regard it is very. You know, it's possible so much REM which incidentally the lab that we've been working with hasn't seen that in years.

[00:12:55] A hundred ninety two amino acids instead of a hundred ninety-one. I know I know [00:13:00] that's very close that might you know producer, you know, a similar reaction, but you know, they haven't even seen that so that's what I'm talking about. It's highly specific. It's really got to be that you know that long provides but it's so so is it more like you are pregnant?

[00:13:14] You're not pregnant or does it say like this is a high level of what you're looking for based on like a color gradient or something like that. No, I wish we could do the quantitative but that's a very is a really great comparison that technology is very similar to how a pregnancy test works and that's you know, that's what we're looking at.

[00:13:32] In terms of the result now has as that compound and detective but you know in my experience with growth hormone, it's not I mean a product can be poorly handled and degraded and what have you. But in my experience it's either growth hormone in there or they're putting something else in there too.

[00:13:51] That's a lot cheaper. I can't dunk hrp exactly weight or even HCG so so I [00:14:00] actually got involved in a situation many many years ago way way way back. Beyond the statute of limitations where I had bought some peptides. Let's say and they were purported to be growth hormone. And I they had the weirdest like usually they little wafer at the bottom perfectly conforms to the bottom of the vial.

[00:14:23] It's like a cylinder, you know. These will like buttons they will like they they were like M&M's shaped like an M&M like a football if you looked at it from the side. I was like, what is this? They were rocking around in the bottom of the vial and a buddy of mine said that looks like HCG from India.

[00:14:41] I said really he goes. Yeah go out and buy a pregnancy test. He said reconstituted and squirted on the premises, son of a bee it showed it was pregnant was like you're pregnant. I was like, oh my God, this is HCG. The thing I didn't understand was HCG was actually more expensive at that point in time [00:15:00] then then basically what growth hormone was going for so I was like this doesn't make any sense.

[00:15:03] But you know, those types of tests are very very valuable being able to do that with growth hormone growth hormone and go. Yes, it's legit or no. It's not you know, because the reality is that for most people the onset of observable changes in the body from growth hormone can take as much as six months.

[00:15:25] You've just invested a lot of money and then went you know, I don't think this stuff's work. Yeah, absolutely, you know it was easier when it was HCG because you know visually a lot of the that part from India, I think stood out a little bit but you know visually it looks close enough. Most people won't you know won't tell the difference but you know now there's the peptides and it's fooling a lot of people with their own blood work.

[00:15:46] So. Yeah, you don't want to be taking a peptide on you don't want to take one unwanted that's doing something that you just don't need done. And that's very that's very true. And that sometimes these places they just [00:16:00] what they'll call it. Whatever you want to buy that day. You know what I mean? So you gotta be careful now so how such explain how does the process work?

[00:16:08] So if I have my growth hormone from a legitimate or questionable Source I buy your test that Royce. Is it Roy tests or Roy? Test.com road test? Yeah, so that I got it right Android test.com. There it is. And you go there and you by the growth hormone test how much it. It's a hundred bucks. Okay, that's not bad.

[00:16:31] You know. Yeah, I mean to tell whether or not you are spending 500 a month or whatever you're spending on growth hormone. And so then you how do you do it? What do you do? Basically, it's a dip test very similar to to a pregnancy test. So basically you get your little. You're a little dipstick.

[00:16:55] Okay and a little vial, right [00:17:00] and you reconstitute your growth hormone, you put one milliliter of water in here and a tenth of a milliliter of your reconstituted growth hormone. Just like what did I do you have do you have do you explain the this the concentration of the reconstituted growth almost like another word?

[00:17:18] Do they have to stay under one.iu of growth hormone or no? It's the test is sensitive enough that it works with the range. It actually works outside of the range of what you find in products on the market. So you don't if you don't know if it's over then you don't go to yourself. Wow, it's good and I just wasted 10 I use of it testing it, you know, yeah.

[00:17:39] Yeah exactly. So it's just a kind of a milliliter. And and then you dip it in you hold it until it until the purple area gets wet. And then you just sit it down and within 20 minutes, you'll have a result. If you get a little one line will show that it's activated you get a second line. It's a fake [00:18:00] product if that second line does not appear.

[00:18:02] Then it's a real product. So wow, that's cool. Very very cool. So it's real simple and and there's no because it's not colors and it's lines you have less of a chance of not interpreting the results properly. Yeah that makes proteins. We love to get all the tests to wear. It semi-quantitative not possible.

[00:18:22] We'd love to get the the test the steroids to of course where they're like semi-quantitative, but. It's very complex. So it's something we're still working on. So these are questions that everybody has about buying growth hormone. And I think that I actually remember you writing on one of the bulletin boards.

[00:18:40] And I don't remember if it was the old Advent lab. Did you spend time on on mind and muscle or haven't Labs good so such. So people are arguing whether or not if there is a vacuum in the in the vial that that meant anything and I if I recall your writings indicated it may not it may not. [00:19:00] Yeah, I gotta get back.

[00:19:01] It's been a while since I was thinking about that but I don't think that that is necessarily indicative of anything. Yeah. Yeah. We you could like you can nitrogen blanket a product you can it's just because the air has been removed doesn't necessarily mean. That's the only. The only way they do it like when you get a normal pharmaceutical product like testosterone is not you know a vacuum in there when I open it up right pretty pressure.

[00:19:24] Right? So yeah and your experience once said if someone has the same Source they have continuity of the product and they test it once and it tests good do you recommend that they should test every six months in case they change the way they're making their their their products or do you think that once if it's the same Source you're getting from same man?

[00:19:45] Actor same everything chances of a tested good today. It'll test good a year from now in my experience. Generally, that's the case. You know, I wouldn't recommend spending money on the test just for the sake of [00:20:00] testing but you know the same time it's a lot of growth hormones a lot of money. So, you know my opinion if I were running and I was investing that kind of money on.

[00:20:10] You know on the better part of a year going to run that for a year or something. I personally probably tested a couple of times. I might tested it a few times. I have pretty ready access to test on probably yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you just go walking to work and do it when you want to now, right? Yeah, but you know that aside if it wasn't my product I probably do it a couple times a year myself with you know, I want to be sure what it's one of the things that really pisses me off.

[00:20:33] Is when people take your money for something that you know, they know they're not selling it. Well, especially so it's one thing to sell somebody pork when they ordered beef but it's another thing to sell somebody something to go to inject in their body that's going to have a desired reaction and it's not what they think it is and it has an undesired reaction or not any reaction at all.

[00:20:55] Your you're putting that in your body and you know, I mean. There's a there's a [00:21:00] lot fewer gauntlets to keep this from doing harm than something you eat what you could throw up or poop out in our name? Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I know God, I'm sorry. I was just going to add that. You know, you gotta remember too.

[00:21:15] This is not just Fitness people that are using these products were I'm sure we're all focused on Fitness, but there's people that are. Medicating themselves are doing you know programs for their health for disease. Yeah. Yeah products because it may be their easiest access maybe their most affordable access to the products.

[00:21:35] Yeah. So I remember that I agree and now let's just I want to segue into the other test you offer therefore just traditional anabolic steroids because then when we take a break, I want to come back and talk about some of the information that you've gathered over the years. About anabolic steroid use and the risk versus reward especially so people can also if they're buying gear not through their [00:22:00] physician chances of you get it through your physician or your compounding pharmacist.

[00:22:05] Testosterone is generally legit that the raw materials are tested and they're reliable and they're pretty easy to make and so with that being the case what the more exotic ones. NPP, you know people want these different things a lot. I've been told in the past. Yeah, it's just it's just test sip wet test and if it's coming from like they tell you it's something more exotic but it's really not has that been your experience.

[00:22:30] You know, it really depends on the compound the test testosterone and even among the testosterones for instance and in faith. At least from what I've seen and this there are some studies on it to look at the black mark the product and then Theta is the most likely to be real of the testosterones sus thighs more likely to be fake most of the Esters but you know, you have anything a very high likelihood it's real on the black market.

[00:22:57] Then you have the Other Extreme you have like [00:23:00] oxandrolone where you have maybe maybe one out of three products meaning what's on the label oxandrolone is horrible. Um because it's a very expensive raw material. It's real easy to give people a small dose of something like d ball or Winstrol and they think that it's a similar effect to what they're expecting from oxandrolone and it's and they just make so much more money.

[00:23:23] You know, especially on a raw material. I've had a lot of people say Hey, you know, I don't think dealers are you know, it's a few extra dollars a bottle here or there especially with testosterone. I really think a lot of this happens at the raw material Level with these suppliers overseas. They know they're going to underground they know they're not testing this stuff.

[00:23:40] Yes, and instead of a kilo for you know, they're getting 5,000 6,000 dollars per kilo something they. Kicker deluded, you know Winstrol Keel over that cost them in the hundreds of dollars. Right? And it's Auto profits. Oh, yeah, I know and and the Blends tend to be not Blends a lot of [00:24:00] the underground Blends tend to be just test sip what s 10th nothing else.

[00:24:06] And I mean, I know girls who thought they were taking less androgenic drugs. And it was just testosterone and a like they got masculinized very very quickly. So it's a problem and I think a lot of the labs start out genuinely wanting to make their own gear and but then they find out how hard it is to actually get the real more exotic pound powders.

[00:24:33] And and they just go on nobody's going to notice. They'll just let me they're gonna grow did you know 400 milligrams of some Androgen a week increase their you're going to grow so, you know, that's the thing about how about starts at makes this market? So so easy and such a lucrative Target for you know for people that want to do that.

[00:24:54] It's for that reason. It's hard to discern. I mean, I'm very excite you steroids for [00:25:00] meghna well into the decade plus time and I experimented with many things and I'm quite certain that I could be tricked one compound to the next it's just some of them the characteristics are similar to other ones that are cheaper and makes it you know, it's there's only there's only one.

[00:25:17] There's only one in my humble opinion that. It's if it's real you know it and if it's not you do as well and that's a trend ballon. I was gonna say and they ate an ant a trend and Anthony Mann you your body changes and most of the times you don't really like the way you feel but it just I've always said Trend kind of takes your body hostage and says now a few you're going to do this and you go no, I don't think I can.

[00:25:41] Oh you're going to. I remember trying well, but back when I was doing it was just the pellets. So I used to do a nice to do those in my kitchen. Yeah, and I didn't even do the extraction. I just literally ground up the pellets really fine. I mix them with oil and I took a nice big needle just like that.

[00:25:59] Oh, you got to be [00:26:00] joking. You didn't end up with abscess. No, no problem. You know, it's just it's sterile product. It's meant for insertion into an animal and it's just some binder and filler studies and make the tablet hold. So I was really just giving that to myself and it seemed to be I never noticed anything from it.

[00:26:18] I noticed the trend. I am not personally not the biggest fan of trying I don't feel great. Didn't feel great when I was using it, but it's strong man. That's a strong, huh. I used to buy Fina pellets on the internet from a vet supply store. I used to get them home. I used to soak them in ether overnight and the next morning.

[00:26:39] I would pour that ether off through a couple coffee filters.  and then I would put the Aether back in in a Cupboard with the. Piece of material like cloth over it and I would let it evaporate and it was very small maybe wasn't like a bunch of it was you know, a little line of it was gone the next morning [00:27:00] and I was left behind with these beautiful yellow crystals.

[00:27:04] And that was what I started with to make my Trend where I made it home and a lot of people made it at home back in the day and you knew it was real and those Fina pellets with cheap until people realize that bodybuilders are buying them and not not cow farmer. And they set up Fina Plex websites, and they was charging stupid money.

[00:27:25] Now they ruined everything but yeah, I know everybody did that back in the day. You know, they say that yeah that your way was the was the better way. I'm certainly not recommending injecting it with all the miners and everything. Yeah, I would imagine those binders would cause inflammation in this, you know site site inflammation just from the injector and surprisingly I was alright, I didn't notice much of a problem for me your well, I'm really sensitive to because I can't go near anything really that's got propionate.

[00:27:48] I started to get a fever from it and I think that it's the. Sure after I'm just very sensitive to it. But the injection site itself little soreness like most for testers. So let's let's let's do [00:28:00] this. Let's take a break and when we come back, let's talk about the different types. Of cycles that you've learned over the years and ways that and and I want to know about your real opinion of the risk versus reward, 's if you're a professional athlete and that sort of stuff.

[00:28:13] Okay. So we're talking right now with Bill Llewellyn, he two websites were going to tell you about the first one is going to be Roy test.com. And then of course the website that's actually on my liner there, which is anabolic dot-org where you can go and learn about any. Agent that you want to buy just putting the name in there and it's kind of like Wiki for anabolic.

[00:28:36] That's very very cool. Check it out. We'll be right back with more stay tuned. Welcome back. We're talking with Bill Llewellyn. He is an author of many many books. He's written about anabolic steroid use extensively over his career obviously from his obvious personal fascination with what they do.

[00:28:56] You know and I gotta I got a real beef with [00:29:00] that. I could go to a plastic surgeon and have life-threatening surgery done to have foreign objects inserted in my body. But as soon as I stick a needle in my hip because I want to look more muscular somehow. I've gone off the crazy train rails. That's it right there.

[00:29:20] I mean it should be in the hands of doctors if we can alter our bodies for cosmetic purposes. Why can't we, you know allow a physician to carefully monitor your you know transformation in this regard. It's. Yeah, does it doesn't make any sense and I know the whole follow the money thing and maybe that has something to do with it, but it just doesn't make any sense to me.

[00:29:42] But anyway, so, you know balancing risk versus reward. We have decades under our belt of this kind of n equals many experiment that's going on in the world today. I. Who was the scientist who did this study and create and performance [00:30:00] and appearance enhancing drugs Peds? Remember? The guy had like a German name about eight ten years ago.

[00:30:08] He started referring to the more as an appearance enhancing drugs than performance. Of course. He said they did like some internet survey where they anonymously polled. Up reported anabolic steroid users to profile who they are for that study and and like 80% of the guys that were on steroids well on them because they wanted to look a different way.

[00:30:36] And so he was like, they're not performance enhancing drugs are appearance enhancing drugs, really primarily. That's what people use them for. Yeah, and we don't have all these deaths. We don't have you know, not to steal some from John Romano, you know from bigger faster stronger, but like if anabolic steroids really killed people wouldn't we be like wouldn't we see deaths every single day?

[00:30:57] I mean, I know when I die at [00:31:00] 89, they're going to say, oh, well, he use steroids, you know. Yeah, I would have lived 291 if I didn't, you know what I mean, but well, you know what? That's the thing. It's like. We of course, we don't have controlled studies on the long-term abuse of antibiotics steroids is unethical and nobody's going to do that.

[00:31:18] So at the best we have we have studies where we look at a population sometimes fit population and then a population of individuals that have used a long history of anabolic steroid. There's been a number of these types of Investigations and. What?  Two things are consistent one is there are things to criticize because these are not the type of controlled study that you would like to see when making a determination.

[00:31:51] So there's always something to look at and say is probably an issue with this. They I don't like they use this population. Although they use people that were [00:32:00] prisoners in this one or what have you. On the other side though. What is consistent is an increase in mortality among those that have long-term steroid abuse.

[00:32:12] So my personal view digesting all of the research all of my personal experiences. And and what have you is that.  The in the short-term. These drugs are very safe. The like you said people are not dropping wee-wee. If they were that acutely dangerous and deadly you would think we would see many high-profile athletes.

[00:32:37] You know, I mean more people more people know about death from flakka or bath salts, then they do about death from anabolic steroids. I mean, that's and that's a cult. Drug, like there's not it's not a 10 million people a year aren't using that stuff. But they know about it. They estimated like 10 million guys a year on a cycle at any given time.

[00:33:01] [00:33:00] It is a they're not there's a lock tremendous amount. I mean, it's their trucks are much more popular today than they were when we criminalize them and try to you know, sweep it under the rug which obviously wasn't the case but you know the other side to that is. I do believe and I think that the data.

[00:33:21] Flawed as it may be does point to the fact that if you make it a history of abusing your drug talking about HRT, that's a whole other thing prior to stop and optimization in my mind is one of the most important things for me for the male population to be taking a look at and I think it's the health benefits are well established.

[00:33:39] But if you're going to abuse them for years into you know that your years turning two decades of abuse. I do think that you're increasing your likelihood of dying of a cardiovascular issue at a younger age. I think that's what we're seeing in the data again, as far as it is, I think that it's it's pretty strong there.

[00:33:59] So [00:34:00] that's my thing. It's about minimizing the cardiovascular impact of anabolic steroid use if you're going to choose to do it. Yeah, this is the one this is one Khalid. I'm Louis is listening to show from Far Far Away. And and and he said there's a study on a Peds by dr. Matthias Dreher. He was on my show and we talked about that and he said, you know their appearance first and then performance-enhancing drugs because the majority of people using them are looking to change the way they look not that not only makes sense.

[00:34:31] It's this is all about athletes right cheating. In sports, but that's a small percentage of the actual users of right, but when I find it interesting that more athletes use ADHD drugs.  Then anabolic steroids yet. We don't see the DEA and the authorities having jurisdiction going we got to do some about riddling because baseball players are using it to run [00:35:00] faster.

[00:35:00] Yeah, you know, I. There are certain things that are interwoven into a cellularly and the hold dr. Jekyll. Mr. Hyde a story is a story of generations because we recognize that humans can do something horrible and become horrible monsters and somehow because dr. Jekyll took a potion, right and we're shooting ourselves in the ass with this oil.

[00:35:28] I kind of feel like the population overreacted about anabolic steroids because because of dr. Jekyll and mr. Hyde, you know, I mean, it's I that kind of oversimplifies it but so what are some of the obviously HRT obviously if that's what you're doing in your older guy, but from a from an athletic standpoint.

[00:35:50] What are some of the effective stacks for we're going to talk about strength and endurance because obviously that's part of performance. What are some of the most [00:36:00] effective stacks of anabolic steroids for strength? Well when I'm talking about effective Stacks, I'm trying to of course. Mitigate the rest right?

[00:36:08] We can go crazy and say this is 5 grams is the most effective. Yeah until you until you until you sell put two teeth that start using six grams then that's yeah, right. So what I'm talking about is finding that those drugs that offer the the lowest risk profile and then using them in the range where.

[00:36:29] You're not running up into tremendously diminishing returns where your dosage is really increasing in your gains are you know, they they do go up and generally the higher doses you do but it's the diminishes our tremendous diminishing return. So first thing if you can. I recommend excluding all oral antibiotics steroids and injectable versions of oral antibiotics steroids.

[00:36:53] Okay, wait a minute back up back up back up. So and that's because both of these are methylated. They caused a lot [00:37:00] of hepatic stress stress stress to the liver, right? Yes and cholesterol mismanagement like what the effect on your lipids if you take testosterone, even when you go up to like 600 milligrams a week, which I was to me starting to push that point of diminishing return.

[00:37:16] And that's a strong dose the effect that you see on your on your health markers your lipids especially if it's negative but modest then you could compare that with just a small dose of say Winstrol sound is all there's a study with just six milligrams a day and the shift is much more dramatic and comparison and I'm gonna bring up another study which I love to talk about.

[00:37:42] It's it involves injectable stanozolol 50 milligrams per milliliter version and mind you I say this my personal experience. I used to really like that particular drug was very effective Psychotherapy. I did like it but they took this drug, they gave [00:38:00] a single injection one injection of 50 milligrams to a group of healthy young men and they tested them a month.

[00:38:10] Later, 28 Days Later one injection and the lipids were I think it was a 20% shift- for good cholesterol and it's 20% shift. Yeah, but that had nothing that another to do with that drug. It was gone by then. No that's the thing. That is the thing. That's how profound the impact on lipid management can be where the drug like stanozolol that even though the drug had it had such an impact on your on your management that it took the the second measure they took.

[00:38:43] After drug initiation was at two months and by that point it had corrected itself. But 28 Days Later. You still don't go but the okay. So let me ask you a question that that injectable was in an oil. I'm not [00:39:00] actually sure they do make it in both areas. That's it was probably water. Oh, okay. Okay.

[00:39:06] So so really then there was no Depo I was going to I was going to think well, maybe the the mechanics of the oil dissipating took a total of three weeks. But if it was if it was aqueous it that's it. It hits the bloodstream and ignore what else I think and this is also an area I've spent some time trying to trying to understand better and it's not a.

[00:39:27] Scenario, I consider myself an expert but my understanding is that you know oil is more of the vehicle for to get the compound into the tissue. The oil itself made this first and metabolize more quickly. But what you have then is the compound with very low water solubility that kind of sits in the tissues and takes a long time to get pulled up into circulation.

[00:39:52] So even if it was an oil-based stanozolol. You would still expect that. It wouldn't have a very [00:40:00] long, you know, none of one of one lone shot. No, no one shop at the monitor. So it's your consistent when you see the studies with the methylated stuff even with oxandrolone. They're really bad on the cardiovascular markers and you can argue.

[00:40:15] You know whether or not you know, what HDL and LDL or the be-all-end-all, you know cardiovascular. Yeah, but you know what, but you know what this is really not even an argument because all of that research has been done on methylated corticosteroids and we know that's why doctors put you on metal Prednisone for 21 days only and that's it because they know that it's very very tough on the liver.

[00:40:36] It skews lipids it actually in fact increases certain types of inflammation in the body. So we know that once you methylate some when you make it hard for the liver to do its job. It doesn't give up it works harder and changes the landscape completely and the other thing is too is that the liver is a big site of your [00:41:00] management of your lipids and the androgens they have they can have a deleterious effect here.

[00:41:06] So giving it that bombarding it with that active drug. Now you have an active steroid that normally your body just. Metabolizes testosterone so easily so there's very little Androgen activity really taking place there. But now you're bombarding it with this methylated compound that it just can't metabolize.

[00:41:22] So now there's all this stimulation going on there as well. So if you can get the methylated stuff out and limit yourself to like testosterone boldenone nandrolone, maybe Prima Ballin. If you can focus and it unless you're trying to win, you know, some really serious bodybuilding competitions if your focus is just image if you just want to feel and look better if you focus on those drugs, you could probably accomplish everything you need with just those for drugs and the safety profile of them is going to be much higher than a lot of the other stuff.

[00:41:54] So nandrolone is an interesting compound. So I've experimented with [00:42:00] nandrolone on and off for many many years and always. Always gives me erectile issues and and it doesn't matter if I'm taking so I've taken twice as much testosterone sippy innate as nandrolone dikko innate, you know deca.  And even using NPP which is a fast-acting nandrolone.

[00:42:23] I noticed changes in Direction and libido and so I've come to the conclusion that. I'm one of those High responders and that you know that that has a lot to do with your success in sports. If you know if you could if you could use this stuff and it doesn't make you feel bad, you're like really good.

[00:42:40] That's like a big Greek. That's it. That's like a prerequisite if you're going to be a drug-using sport participant, but I've read a study not too long ago that implicated something called.

[00:42:54] die Hydro nandrolone. Mmm, and it suppresses [00:43:00] dopamine in the brain.  And this is where the erectile / libido effects of this this form arise from any theories on that. Well, you know what? That's the thing with an Angela, right? That's why it's androgenic activity is so low is that you know in all these tissues that Express high levels of 5-alpha reductase your Androgen responsive tissues, right?

[00:43:29] Testosterone is potentiated to DHT which is three times stronger. Nandrolone gets reduced the dhn which is significantly weaker. So I think that when you have first off if you don't have testosterone not supplementing testosterone you use natural. I think a majority of people notice interference with issues with libido and stuff like that.

[00:43:49] Even sometimes sense of well-being and energy because you have that reduce stimulation probably in areas like the brain where it's where it's also really important DHT estrogen also the [00:44:00] estrogen levels the conversion is much much lower with nandrolone. So you have a situation where you have, you know, anabolic stimulation in the muscles, which is really good.

[00:44:08] Um, but your DHT stimulation, you know in those are those tissues is low. You're a knight. Now you're talking about you talk about noro steroids. When you start to about estrogen estrogen influences norepinephrine estrogen influences serotonin levels, and then you're sucking and you're sucking your sucking your dopamine levels down.

[00:44:27] It's like yeah. Oh my butt my butt. My knees don't hurt anymore, but I just hate life, you know. Yeah peony aromatase Inhibitors same thing, and I'm not a big fan. Using those I understand the Aesthetics of how well they work sometimes, you know, I get that but man trashing your estrogen is not a good thing us men.

[00:44:47] We have you know. That over simplification decades ago, you know testosterone is a male hormone estrogen is a female hormone is did such a disservice to us because men need estrogen really bad [00:45:00] for a lot of stuff including building muscle but really also for libido sexual functioning for a ton of stuff.

[00:45:06] And yeah, so I'm not a big fan of crashing that for the sake of you know, so so you so just give that list again of the the. The oils that you would consider worth the risk, assuming that you are taking low enough Doses and then I'm going to ask you for what do you think a maximum dose a month or week should be if you're looking to be safe mitigate risk, but see some benefits.

[00:45:33] Yeah, I mean, of course, there's always some risk when you're exceeding medical doses but the compounds that I'm most favorite testosterone and testosterone and if they if you buy it from the black market is going to be your most likely to be legitimate boldenone also very very high legitimate both on products on the on the black market.

[00:45:52] So that's another good aspect of that, you know, Deca nandrolone decanate and then, you know, maybe [00:46:00] Prima Bolin as well. To round it out those gives you kind of a gamut of your high anabolic low androgenic low, estrogen all the way up to testosterone, which is your primary antigen and in terms of doses.

[00:46:13] I personally find that and it varies by by individual of course, but that most effective range seems to be like 200 to 750 milligrams hundred fifty milligrams total total total of everything you're taking in that regard Beyond 750. You know again, there's you will get an enhanced effect, but it's not if you do 1,500 you don't get double the gains.

[00:46:37] So but the side effects could be more significant. One of the things that we've learned in peptides is that you feel peptides When You Reach when you exceed the saturation dose saturation dose based on available receptor sites that can pick it up. So like if you take. If you take G HR P 6 and it makes you wildly hungry.

[00:46:57] You took way too much. You took way too [00:47:00] much. So there's probably some truth to that with these these types of antibiotics as well because of the fact that they are acting on receptors. So it may be that the magic of staying at those lower doses. Is that overall you're staying below what could be considered a saturation dose combining all of those together?

[00:47:22] Yeah. You're probably getting where that Doses and I think saturation is a little misunderstood because there's also like there's the uncoupling of the receptor, right and then hitting the Affinity Affinity of the reason receptor. Right? Right. Yes a little bit beyond that, but but yes, certainly you get to a point where you're really stimulating very well your Androgen receptor content and.

[00:47:52] And that's what it is that the access is just going to spill over into other areas. You're going to increase estrogen more and you know, you're going to have other issues with side [00:48:00] effects. So build Fitbit just told me how to get up and walk around folks. That's what this is all about. Right now.

[00:48:04] I'm looking at my charger acting like I was trying to connect on the other machine. So I'm at five percent. So I'm like, okay. Well, we'll get it we can end this pretty quickly here if we have to that's not a problem. So the next thing is what about endurance are there any types of. Anabolic Source performance-enhancing drugs that you would recommend are safe at certain doses to people who are looking to increase their endurance.

[00:48:30] Well, I you know, I think anabolics aren't steroids aren't as popular and real competitive Sports. Of course this we have other like EPO based drugs and stuff that are that are stronger. However, they do increase your red blood cell production, which can increase your endurance. I personally find that.

[00:48:49] Um water retention is something that the athletes and the in the Speed Sports and and endurance as well when you're carrying your body around. [00:49:00] You know for an event you don't want to be pulling around excess water that isn't really adding to your performance. So it's typically more in my the compounds that I mentioned it be more like maybe a prima Ballin the athlete might my focus on of course people have everybody's got their own.

[00:49:20] Preference in a little bit of testosterone is also important for Health Quality. Definitely definitely not Trend because Trend robs you of any endurance that you have available. Just amazing how that's that's how you know, it's working to by the way. It's a strong draw but it's not a friendly one.

[00:49:34] No. No, it looks like I so, so, can you stay through the next break or is look like you're going to lose your connection. You know, what is it? I hate to do it, but I'm not I'm in the middle of a move and I'm not sure where my court is so I don't okay. Yes. Okay. So let's let's let's just do this.

[00:49:50] Let's go ahead and plug your websites again. So the Roy test.com is where people can go if they want to try the growth hormone [00:50:00] tests at home. Right and then. Is it anabolics plural or singular about Anna box.org is the place to go for more? No, no. Anabolic dot-org is the place to go if you want to learn more about anabolics in general.

[00:50:18] That's the place. I look built. Thanks for being here. I'm going to go ahead and yeah, we'll do this again. I'm going to. Take bill out of the picture here. I'm going to take one quick commercial break and when we come back and want to talk about tomorrow's come at me, bro. It's going to be fun and I'm still asking for more questions.

[00:50:36] Stay tuned. Welcome back. I had a run that on the commercial.  So tomorrow is my second come at me bro this year and I'm getting a lot of positive comments about the show and I'm getting lots of questions and I just want people to know that. You can send me a question that ought to on are at superhuman radio dotnet and I will answer it about anything anything about me.

[00:50:58] I'll talk about me and my [00:51:00] life. I won't talk about other people unless it's like I have to mention them in the discussion. But anyway, and I'm hoping to get some really cool questions and I'll talk like I talk about anything. I'll talk about I we have some relationship questions and I like those kind of things.

[00:51:17] I want to be like Steve Harvey. I don't know anything about relationships, but I want to write a book about relationships because I've been in one and so I must be good at it. That's how that's how we that's what we've come to in this this world today. If somebody does something they immediately believe that they can teach other people to do it and teaching is a separate talent in and of itself.

[00:51:43] But anyway, yeah. I hope that some of you can make the come at me bro tomorrow. It'll be at noon. And it'll be here on Facebook live. I'll probably post it later today so that people can.  Add it to their calendar because I'm sure you don't want to take off work and be there. But anyway, that's it.

[00:51:58] I have nothing else. I just [00:52:00] didn't want to have to run that commercial. I really did but it was nice having a bill on the show. I'm glad we did it and we'll see everybody tomorrow with more superhuman radio. Thank you for watching today.