[00:00:00] Welcome back to another episode of the pep talk. I'm going to be joined by my co-host in just a moment. Dr. Carl page. You know, I got to tell you the outpouring of interest in this show is amazing. Thank you. I knew this would be a good show because. There continues to be so much misinformation about peptides and thank goodness for the people who started the international peptide [00:01:00] Society for creating standards and protocols and teaching doctors to help legitimize the use of peptides as therapeutic AIDS because.

[00:01:11] Just recently a very popular podcast had a guy on and I've had three people who are very high up in the peptide world go that guy didn't know what he was talking about and he was positioned as a peptide expert never heard of him before that doesn't mean anything. All right, but the reality is that just like everything just like stem cells 10 years ago just like everything that's emerging.

[00:01:36] Everybody wants to get their hand in it. Everybody wants to be in a position to profit from it. And what comes along with that are people who start to inject their own opinions to overlay on the science. And that's a problem because then people expect things that peptides aren't going to produce to occur [00:02:00] and then peptides at all while they don't work that I try them.

[00:02:03] They don't work. They don't work. So the reality is that. The real benefit of this ongoing series is to clarify and rectify this type of a problem. I'm joined Now by my co-host. Dr. Karl page. How you doing? Girl? I'm doing fine helical wonderful. Wonderful. So. And I'm sure that that little Preamble you're noticing it to right peptides it becoming popular and now they do everything from cure AIDS and cancer to make you six inches taller and that's a scary thing when that starts happening, right it is I mean, there's you know, they've gone kind of from Underground to the traditionally in those Sports community and bodybuilding type communities who will integrate a lot of these things just to see and they are.

[00:02:49] Very adventurous and often do things that you wouldn't do in a research or a true clinical setting but you know, there are pioneers to some extent in or maybe risk-takers that [00:03:00] moves made way to look at it, but there's such a tremendous, you know clinical medical use and even just a regenerative anti-aging use for.

[00:03:09] Your heart high quality production high-purity peptides that think God like you said for the international peptide societies formation in the effort there to really bring some legitimacy and some self-policing to this area to make it safe for the public to use and also to be quite Frank to keep the FDA at Bay to make it where you can still have access to these things.

[00:03:33] They want to know that these were going self-police and kept clean and that production facilities are high quality. And that's really made all for that happen and I was talking with dr. Seeds earlier in the week and we were talking about different topics. We have some really good topics. We're going to be covering.

[00:03:50] Well, you know, we've covered a lot of Novel peptides. And right he said maybe you need to go back and cover some of the basics because there's a lot of [00:04:00] misinformation out there and we agreed So today we're going to go over a peptide that's been in the domain for quite some time. And that is thymosin beta 4 because this is one of those peptides that.

[00:04:12] I think gets exaggerated and its potential that's not to negate the fact that it's a magic peptide. But it because one of those peptides wear o it does everything, you know made my hair grow back my hair my hair turned black again. I the grey hair went away, you know. No it doesn't do that. That's okay if that happened to you, but he wasn't from that peptide.

[00:04:31] So let's start there. Where does Thomason beta for come in and correct me if I'm wrong. It really was introduced in the. Racehorse industry before it was the human athletic industry, right? Correct. What horse racing industry really pioneered with that peptide from recovery standpoint, you know helping the animals recover from the intense output and that's really kind of where it fits in the human world to is a recovery peptide is really it's it's most useful [00:05:00] benefit whether that's post injury or post intense workout.

[00:05:04] No, it's a collagen uptake cross-linking. It's the vascular vascularity induction and recovery, so that's really where it has a most effective functioning really should be thought of as a recovery peptide. You know, I've seen things where it's like super cut, you know, lean up body. Yeah, Justin, you know every it's not supported by what you tend to see clinically or what even really the science of the peptide would suggest it would be best utilized for and in fact when prepping for the show.

[00:05:38] I went out there just to see some of the things that people are saying and some people are saying it's anabolic it builds muscle and I guess extrinsically if you recover faster, Then your training is more productive from that standpoint. But then if that's the case then sleep is anabolic. So let's be honest.

[00:05:57] This is not a this is not an anabolic compound, [00:06:00] right? That's not its that's not its primary effect is to be anabolic but in just from a gross sense at 30,000 feet. Yes, if you recover faster in you're going to. Yeah, actually somewhat anabolic but you know, that's not where I would position the peptide for from Clinical medical use.

[00:06:18] So what so what what are the primary therapeutic potential roles of what way I back up? I'm sorry. There's there is two terms out there. There's thymosin beta 4 and T be 500 and I was under the assumption or the understanding that TB 500 is a portion of the peptide domain thought to have all the benefits of thymosin beta for but not the entire thymosin beta for peptide.

[00:06:47] So what are we really working with here when we buy these peptides? Well, that's even a bigger question is you know what it has to lot to do comes down to Purity. You know, if you manufacture a I think we went through this only the earlier talks 98 [00:07:00] 99 percent pure peptide and put it in solution that is going to maintain that Integrity for quite some time and has to be tested to see if over time it maintains Integrity of you've got.

[00:07:11] Eighty percent 75 percent 90 percent and then 10-15 percent of something else that's going to lose its potency and turn into from proton donation other peptides or inactive peptides or peptides attacked have activity that are not necessarily well-known or desirable. So first thing is to get Purity and that's really why the FDA process of evaluating and certifying pharmacies for human use peptides.

[00:07:40] Is all about to get out of this little moniker you see on a lot of your peptide places that people purchase where it says not for human consumption for research purposes only, you know, there's a reason those labels are on there because they have not gone through the process of certifying that they can produce the.

[00:08:00] [00:07:59] 99% pure peptide for human consumption, but but well, I want to I want to stay with that just for a second and then I want to reposition my original question. So the the real reason that those have to say not for human consumption is that it's because you there's not a doctor involved and you can't sell these peptides to individuals to use on their own the FDA.

[00:08:23] Prohibits that so the reality is that some of those that say not for human consumption could be actually high quality peptides, but no one's testing them and that's the real problem. Now, the original question was I guess is thymosin beta 4 different than T be 500, or are they just the same? The from a functional standpoint appear to do very similar things.

[00:08:47] So I think practically you would could think of them in the same world. But you know, there are subtle differences from a pro amino acid sequence six sections that are different between the two and that's a little too complex to go into. All right. [00:09:00] Yes to yeah, there are subtle differences, but they practically do the same thing.

[00:09:05] Okay. Okay with that being the case, what do they do? What can we expect from thymosin beta for use of we don't find somebody for again? I would look more for as a recovery cut side, you know, you were going to think of the kind of in a couple of General classes, maybe promote wound healing anti inflammatory molecule.

[00:09:24] So from a recovery standpoint promote wound healing and anti-inflammatory a lot of complicated cytokine and subcellular. The process is there induced by the thymus invade for that may in some cases be associated with stem cell maturation or migration into areas of injury angiogenesis, you know up regulation of vegf, you know things that will cause vascular endothelial growth factors to accumulate in an area of an injury or recovery.

[00:09:55] And then also work on the inflammatory side to [00:10:00] modulate the cytokine world and an anti-inflammatory Direction, so. It also seems to be a wreath of poetic right a builds red blood cells to a certain degree. And that was one of the big things in the thoroughbred horse racing industry it seemed too because I work with racehorses and I remember we used to give horses jugs which was an intravenous.

[00:10:22] You know what I'm talking about, right? Yeah. It was these when they were told they were called. Blood Builders and these were a variety of chemicals and molecules in a saline bag that was designed to improve red blood cell production because a horse that has the highest red blood cell production has the highest.

[00:10:44] oxygen carrying capacity and therefore is more efficient on the racetrack. So thymosin beta 4 was discovered and used primarily by the horse race industry to really be a blood Builder was. Yes, and that's a reason with this regular use [00:11:00] why you probably want to cycle on and off of that for most people and not be on continuous use.

[00:11:06] It's one of the reasons especially if you have patients that are on testosterone, which you can upregulate red cell phone and you know, a lot of these guys they might be using this type of stuff can mix and match things that have unintended consequences that can raise their stroke risk and cardiovascular event risk, so, You know their potent this because it's a small little chemical and even small amounts of it.

[00:11:28] It's these are potent things have a lot of Downstream impacts on metabolism. And anyway oh no. No. No your yeah. So there were two good studies done. However, they've never been reproduced so they have been called into question the first one and I'm going from memory was.

[00:11:54] Ischemic event stroke, right they gave I think 2 milligrams of thymosin [00:12:00] beta for within 6 hours of the event and then at six weeks or six months there was. Little evidence that the stroke occurred all of the necrotic tissue seem to have been replaced and the vasculature and the nerves and the collateral damage normally seen from this type of a stroke seem to go away and there was the same study done.

[00:12:27] Post cardiac myocardial infarction ischemic reperfusion and they said the same thing about the heart the heart look like the guy never had a heart attack those two studies are not taking with great gravity to my knowledge because they have not been reproduced. Is there any evidence that those two studies really showed some valid rescue ability for thymus and beta for post.

[00:12:52] Ischemia? You know in the studies themselves. Yes, they did show them but again without reproducibility in different Labs, [00:13:00] it's difficult to you would not be able to get an FDA-approved indication for those in that setting but it's like a lot of the peptides getting the interest from the people that Dole out that type of grant money to do that type of research is.

[00:13:14] It is hard to get them into the peptide world since it's so easy to modulate one or two amino acid sequences and create the finest in beta for a pen and bring it to Market that does exactly the same thing. That's at least one of the proposed reasons why we don't get a lot of interest in that intronic.

[00:13:33] You know, but you know, you need unique reproducible studies and more than one set of researchers that can be until that. So the same results before you could claim this as a definitely going to bring to Clinic with that type of FDA-approved indication and you get a nice you would think that somebody would do this study because that would be a remarkable thing for people who suffer heart attacks and strokes to begin.

[00:13:57] I mean. On the QT [00:14:00] I keep two vials of times in beta for by freezer that I will not touch just in case someone I know or myself where to suffer a heart attack or a stroke. I would want that I would take the whole five milligrams boomed and okay now take Now take me with the ambulance and let's go.

[00:14:16] Yeah, I think if you're into the peptide world, there's a I've got a couple of things in my freezer to that. I'm just prepared for it, you know. Like the like a lifejacket, you know to city life sometimes deals your loved one something that you don't want and these are remarkable in that sense and from a safety standpoint since short-term, you know use on you know, things like TV for or cerebral Ison, even if you're talking about, you know, neurologic injuries the downsides in negligible.

[00:14:45] So why wouldn't you want to do everything you could at that? To try to inquire into impact or positive outcome. Now thymosin beta for seems to kind of be [00:15:00] a director of growth hormone from some of the research that I've read. It appears that thymosin beta form a mediate the effects of growth factors in repairing tissue.

[00:15:14] Am I understanding that properly? I think growth factors is probably the correct term and a grows General growth hormone modulation. It will cause the collection or Draw in to the site of inflammation or injury all of the appropriate molecules that will induce the healing response. In augment that recovery phase so from a practical standpoint, even though you've not had Reese producible studies done doesn't mean they wouldn't be reproducible.

[00:15:46] They just for the most part not been done that the mechanism of action does suggest that this should work in that manner. So they do promote in the induction or drawing in of all of those [00:16:00] appropriate post-injury inflammatory recover response. It's almost like the thymus in beta for is the job superintendent who has the blueprint and says, okay, here's what we need to fix and directs vascular endothelial growth factor to to create new blood Pathways and and and fibroblast growth factors to start sprouting new neurons.

[00:16:21] It really seems to be. The job leader and and correct me if I'm wrong, but as the name implies, it's it's a it's a peptide produced by the thymus gland which we know shrinks in atrophies as we age. Correct. It did usually envelopes Sabri significantly even by your starts in your mid-30s and downhill, you know by that time, you know, the traditional injury response would be inflammation and then induction of angiogenesis and healing factors and then the maturation phase of those cells down streaming the TV [00:17:00] for.

[00:17:00] Accelerates the process, you know, and you look at its use in when recovery it is quite remarkable in some at least the animal studies how aggressively you can get augmentation of wound healing and there's anecdotal human studies not all of them are published but in you know in some of the training I've been in with the different lectures you do see how is quite remarkable in its induction of wound healing.

[00:17:25] Really and so is that where the that potentially is? Why the recovery after a word we let's face it rick recovery after a workout is like a coordinated systemic wound healing right? You've done this this kind of even damage to a group of muscles. And now you want it to heal. That's why that's why the immune system is part of recovery.

[00:17:49] Absolutely, you know that you want to augment all of the recovery phases and have enough of an inflammatory response to trigger that whole Cascade of things that happens, but you don't want it to [00:18:00] be over do itself then you'll just end up with over training which we know as we age is much easier to do.

[00:18:07] Yeah tell me about it. So it is it is it sensible to think that if someone was going to use thymosin beta for. Successfully that is should be used in conjunction with growth hormone secreted agog since growth hormone seems to Splinter off into VG e GF and and fibroblast growth factors and all these other growth factors that thymosin beta for kind of needs in order to finish the job.

[00:18:33] From a regenerative or anti-aging standpoint, you know at a certain point. Yes, you know GH R HG H RP s need to be on board for you to get maximum benefit really from most of the downstream peptides. And if someone's making a clinical decision on which of these should you use that really should be your base?

[00:18:53] Because if you don't have adequate growth hormone, then most of the downstream other processes involved no matter which peptides you [00:19:00] pull out of the closet are not going to have Max. So, you know, if you're deficient in from uh standpoint in your ability to pulse and growth hormone release, which we know just happens naturally.

[00:19:13] Most of the other peptides won't have as much profound impact as you would expect. There's not on board this time. It's in beta for have any correlation to cancer at all whether good or bad or just shows up its corollary anything like that. They're ours information and initially in a lot of cancer studies when they went analyze specimens, they would notice how TV for levels and there was some concern is this a TV for cause cancer, you know, because they're saw a level.

[00:19:41] I can't quote the exact all of that research now, but the gist of it turned out to be that it that more that the TV for was on board. It's part of that and restrict response to the cancer cells and the recovery process as opposed to being an inducer or cause of the cancer and that makes perfect sense and that they you [00:20:00] know, I communicated with one of the scientists who did.

[00:20:04] Research on LL 3 7 but before doctor seeds and I talked about that on the show late last year and one of them indicated that there seems to be a high concentration of this cuts the citizen in tumor cells and. While her opinion was it played a role, you know, I thought to myself maybe the body is responding by producing more LL 3 7 because it wants to eradicate the tumor cell.

[00:20:36] Right, and so a lot of times these peptides show up not because they're causative but because they're trying to fix the problem, right? It's not a lot of times during the body's natural response to that and buy, you know manufacturing them in. Increasing the amount that you can have just something as simple as BP one57 from you know, gastric ulcer healing that's a natural response that happens but that [00:21:00] you can manufacture that in larger volumes in create that same sort of augmentation of a recovery response and other tissues and even systemically I want to take a break and when we come back I want to talk about I think I saw a study.

[00:21:13] I'm famous in beta for and and peripheral neuropathy, which is a huge problem in our population today and I have my own theories why that is and then I also want to about dosing for therapeutic purposes versus prophylactic purposes as we age we're talking right now with dr. Carl page. His website is medical transformation center.com.

[00:21:32] If you were interested in working with the doctor who is on the bleeding edge of the spear, so to speak and in helping his patients using. These novel peptides reach out to dr. Pate. We'll be right back with more of the pep talk stay tuned. Welcome back. We have some questions from the audience watching live here on Facebook.

[00:21:54] If you are watching live on Facebook, you can post your questions to the Facebook live event [00:22:00] and we will answer them towards the end of the show. So the I did see some research that shows well first of all, I have a huge suspicion and have had a huge suspicion for the past four years now about peripheral neuropathy.

[00:22:14] And I don't think it's from high blood sugar levels at all. In fact, I know people who are not diabetic who have peripheral neuropathy today and it's a widespread issue in our country. There is some research out there that shows some potential benefits from thymosin beta for it or am I confusing that with another peptide?

[00:22:31] No, it does have some research suggesting a recovery function and you know times in beta also, like you mentioned earlier can have some Central Nervous effects as well. So, you know things that it will cause that same response to Recovery in peripheral and Central Nervous tissue. Okay, let's talk about dosing if I am looking at Thomason beta for for a therapeutic.

[00:22:57] Effect on some of the things we've talked about wound [00:23:00] healing blood building even experiment from ischemia. What kind of dosing am I looking at? And then what about just as a prophylactic I'm getting older and I want to start using it how frequently and so on. So let's start with the therapeutic side.

[00:23:15] What dosing are you looking at, you know from a practical standpoint, you know .25 ml's something or you know, 25 units of the. You know 3,000 I think is a 3000 Mike perennial solution dosing, you know daily, so that's so that's a so, let me get this straight. So that's about 250 micrograms per dose is what you know somewhere around 300.

[00:23:44] Okay. I might have got the concentration on that 300 Mike's. Okay those daily you do want to cycle that again like we mentioned earlier because if you're going to use it for. Only in four months in a row you at least need to be monitoring blood counts and make sure [00:24:00] you don't overshoot with that but 10 days on, you know, 10 days off usually is enough to mitigate that and then if the root you get recovery, then you can back off from a wound or injury or.

[00:24:12] Alter that used in conjunction with other like PPC one57 for Recovery of membranes or inflammatory bowel. Sometimes with people that are not responding to additional treatment. We can add it in for that. You know any soft tissue injury with appropriate again, always these things you need to add in the collagen.

[00:24:33] You've got to add in the. You need to throw in the bricks along with the order, right? What about some of these more aggressive two milligrams every third day type protocols. Have you seen any of those for Thomason beta for I've seen those, you know, I don't I'm not aware of any, you know, well vetted data that's going to say that's going to work any better than anything else but from an anecdotal standpoint, you know, you'll see a lot of people that it were toward health and that's always [00:25:00] hard to say is that appropriate for the.

[00:25:02] General population to use that it makes sense that on a short term small large doses may be beneficial. So like like I used to milligrams every third day post-surgery this last time around right that type of issue would be much more. A way to use a large pulse doses like that. Then you could go ahead now as I say this time it's in beta for have a half life like traditional Pharmaceuticals or does it didn't go in and and Trigger these Downstream events and it's gone.

[00:25:36] You know, it's not you know pegylated or anything like that right going to have any sort of sustained sustained release. It is a sense of your turning of Downstream process on that has ongoing effects for some time. But actually it's just like a sequence of amino acids. And once it's broken down by the you know chemicals in your body enzymes that break it back into its constituent [00:26:00] amino acids.

[00:26:00] It's not. Going to have the same impact but it is a signal signaling molecule turns on that signal and then you get the downstream impact from it, but there's not a sustained release TV for. If you're if you're treating someone who has a wound healing or it could be for Recovery. Let's say very aggressive cross trainer.

[00:26:20] That's the up an age in his 50s. Let's say and he say, you know, doc. I just don't recover like I used to what would you give him with thymosin beta for and would that be the 300 microgram dose plus what else would you stack with thymus and beta? Well, I think the first you want to make sure that they're not in any sort of certain are sanctioned event that you know doesn't have its drug screen door tested its you know, so, you know, there's been issues and there is something currently, you know, TB 500 TV for with Wata testing and to be aware that they're not in that type of competition.

[00:26:57] Okay, but you know bpc one [00:27:00] 570 be for is a wonderful combo with nice College in support, of course your appropriate protein intake to allow the bricks of recovery to be there, you know, and if their age appropriate having a GH R HG H RP on board to make sure they have the growth hormone present.

[00:27:16] Yeah, very very very that. We good good start for that and no matter how you use it. You feel that you should cycle on and off of. Every so often so that you don't accumulate any, you know, any introduction of blood viscosity issues and stuff like that. We just need to monitor at least and there are some people that I have on it on it longer, but we do monitor them to make sure we're not experiencing any of that.

[00:27:46] Do you want an Icee? Yeah. Hey, usually give dr. Horses very very large doses because the horses have to make money or they get put out to [00:28:00] pasture. So we have a couple questions. Let's go ahead and go down the list here. We'll start with the the first one first my good friend Marco and Cognito and that's not his real name just started using bpc 157 to 500 micrograms injected near my elbow for attendant are due to a lateral epicondylitis tennis elbow.

[00:28:22] I'm going to be adding GH TB 500 what have been the clinical reports of this type of injury using a combo insofar as tendon regeneration and don't forget your collagen. Absolutely. Nothing's gonna happen. This from a semantic standpoint clinical reports really would just be that as opposed to publish data.

[00:28:46] So, you know what has someone been using in their practice and what are the anecdotal response to that? There are a lot of animal studies, you know in both of those individually combining them not a ton of published studies when mixing peptides, you know, because [00:29:00] the standards always going to be one intervention one response from a research world or Pharmacy.

[00:29:05] Well, there's not a lot of. Research with lifestyle nutrition three peptides, you know, you don't see that kind of research published because usually they're looking to get a single agent brought to market for a product release. Okay, so just to cover the semantics of that you won't get a lot of published data with that.

[00:29:25] Right? But we all know from a clinical standpoint that when these things are utilized we're modifying lifestyle, you know, if you do have a tendonitis part of this classic recovery would be to rest it. You know, if you have a micro tendon chair you want to take the load off of it for want a lot to hear.

[00:29:40] It's like that. What is the thing LeBron does nail load management? Yeah, right. Okay, right simpler. And listen, that's how I tore. I mean I basically had tendonitis. In my tricep and I I worked around it, you know, but I really wasn't and one day I was bench [00:30:00] pressing and it snapped and when the doctor who repaired it said to me.

[00:30:05] You no longer had tendonitis you had tendinosis. He said your tendonitis went so long that the tendon actually started to become stranded like like frayed like a like a cable unwinding he said that once that happens it's going to snap. There's nothing so really the wise thing to do Marco is take off just take off for a couple weeks.

[00:30:26] Don't worry about it. You'll be back don't you make the gains? Yeah, regular trainers people that take care of the nutrition, you know, they're not going to decondition significantly over short periods of time, but they really put yourself at risk of a potentially career altering or definitely long-term workout altering rupture or tear and then a long recovery.

[00:30:45] So first off would be to rest it. And then I think the regimen you mentioned certainly has a lot of great potential to cause recovery, but it does need to be included with the nutritional support that allows the that have something to work with and go back. Listen to the show. I [00:31:00] did about the study that shows how to use collagen hydrolysate or a disk could be just plain old Knox gelatin.

[00:31:08] You have to take it before you train with 60 to 100 milligrams of Vitamin C because. Tendons and ligaments are avascular. So it's not like if it's in you could take it after you work out and it's going to go there. They work like sponges when you're stretching them and shortening them. They suck in the fluid that's in the channels right around them.

[00:31:32] And that's what it has to be in you. It has to be in you before you go to the gym with a little bit of vitamin C and then you'll see changes in your tendonitis. If you're taking it post-workout you're missing 75. Instead of the percept potential effects and I did that show two years ago. I think it was so that's another you know, a lot of these peptides are magic when they're used in conjunction with you know, appropriate lifestyle modification with nutritional support and then you get into things like, [00:32:00] you know, PRP and stem cells, you know, and if it's an appropriate for whatever injury or condition you're dealing with you know those.

[00:32:06] No, this is just augments natural recovering response when you use used like that, we have a question from dr. Joe franzese. I think I pronounce his name right? He's Italian I should know how to pronounce his name. He says Lyle of using peptides in my practice as well. But the cost makes it almost impossible for most patients any legitimate pharmacies out there with reasonable prices.

[00:32:28] Now Marco Incognito mentioned tailor-made a little bit further up and doctor franzi said absolutely. I'm in Cincinnati and I've been down to tailor made before top-notch for sure and prices to match hard to compete. With places like that cell research peptides for research only not for human consumption, but that is what everyone uses 50 dollars versus 500 knocks me out of the market and this is probably a problem for a lot of Physicians [00:33:00] right now who are looking to peptides for their patience isn't.

[00:33:04] You know, I don't really matter of perspective for me. I mean, what a growth hormone cost back in the 70s and people who shot at you know, and what does it cost today? If you try to get it for appropriate clinical indications that the insurance you can come to cover it several thousand dollars a month.

[00:33:19] So you have peptides are expensive and taylormade's are expensive, but they are the best ones you can get you kind of get what you pay for sometimes on these up patients that will come in. And they're buying internet testosterone from Pakistan and really don't have any idea what the concentration is.

[00:33:37] And you know, I just tell them I can't manage you unless I know what you're using. And it you know, it's just Cost is an issue with peptides and we do try to make patients building a lot of this cost. What is the risks associated with it and try to help them with appropriate management regimens that they can model, you know, help the mitigate some of [00:34:00] the cost so they don't over use or abuse or misuse, you know, I've had a couple of patients that.

[00:34:05] You know don't listen to instructions and you know, call me and say let's just posed to last seven weeks. Now. It's about going in three weeks on like a wood dose for you giving you know yours. Well rewrote. Here's what the bottle says here. You know, but they make mistakes. So when I want to help them understand the treat this stuff like it's it is expensive and you have to respect that.

[00:34:23] I had a conversation with Ryan Smith over a tailor-made and he was very very very Frank with me. He said, you know, and I've seen their facility just like you Doctor frenzies, they've got literally tens of millions of dollars invested in in amino acid sequences. You have to remember also one other thing a lot of the peptides.

[00:34:42] Come in from outside the country or even inside the country are being made using the recombinant method using some sort of E, coli and feeding that E. Coli amino acids free form amino acids. And basically the E.coli eat it and poops out this peptide and then you've got [00:35:00] to use these surfactants and these chemicals to get the e.coli.

[00:35:06] And sometimes those get stuck behind it has to be testing for that and then you've got a life allies. You got a freeze-dry it when but over a tailor-made they're using amino acid sequencers. This is synthesized. There's no E coli. There's no bacteria being fed amino acids and pooping these things out.

[00:35:26] So you already have a much purer much cleaner. Peptide starting out with and then they have mass spec sitting there right next to the peptide machines and they Mass Spec everything before they do anything with it. So the. Expense that's going into that type of a process is being born by a small number of people like us who are early adopters and Ryan said, you know, once we get more doctors on board and once people are prescribing more, it's the economy of scale.

[00:35:57] The prices will come down. [00:36:00] So unfortunately right now unless you are willing to buy from. Questionable sources and test yourself. You have to send it someplace like Bloomington. Are you in Bloomington? They have mass spec up there. I've had them test stuff for me before you can send it up there and say oh, yeah, this is really what it is.

[00:36:21] But the reality is if you're not doing that you don't know what your patient is taking and. Tailor-made has made a huge leap of faith investing and doing this and to my knowledge of the only Pharmacy that's doing this in the country right now. Am I right about that? It's the only one I'm aware of with the that's manufacturing at the level and Purity.

[00:36:41] They are and has been FDA-approved to to do that and make those claims and been certified that they are producing 98 99 percent pure peptides and it is a just a Sci-Fi Tech facility. When you look at the gasket that goes on there and the I think the distinction you make between mixing it up in a van that was some [00:37:00] bacteria versus essentially what I have to produce a peptide versus what I would call these.

[00:37:04] Have time printers essentially when you look at them. They look like printer cartridges along the front of the machine that has a lean and valine leucine and isoleucine you on whatever the particular peptide is and you punch in the sequence you wanted to produce and it just adds them on one at a time until you've got the peptide and then you wash it and purify it and mass spec it.

[00:37:26] And that's before that's released for for human consumption. So it's the only way I would inject some of this stuff and that's the other thing that people would take it. Look I've used black market stuff for a very long time and it used to I used to develop a certain amount of angst using testosterone.

[00:37:45] I used to buy from Uruguay, you know, and you know, and testosterone is probably not even a fair comparison anymore because you can get Watson at Walgreen for you know for 65. Powers for a ten on ten milliliter bottle. It's it's not it's [00:38:00] pretty cheap. Now mainstream. Yeah peptides will be there.

[00:38:04] There's no doubt about it. It's like the it's like the first Texas instrument computer that I bought a calculator that I bought in college. The freaking thing was so expensive five years later. You got what a smaller one with more with more capacity to do things and it was like sixteen dollars. So in the economies of scale will take place in.

[00:38:27] Dicked because of shows like this and other shows and other people and other Physicians and organizations, like the international peptide Society. We're going to see a faster growth in the interest of peptides. We're going to see the economies of scale. Take over. We're going to see prices come down because ultimately I can't think of his name now and I feel terrible but that you know taylormade's goal is literally.

[00:38:55] To get like a billion people around the globe [00:39:00] using peptide. They all that, you know, they have a facility in Australia or New Zealand. They have a facility here. They believe there's they have a mission to help people and they understand that peptides can help people. So it's going to change the pricing is going to change here.

[00:39:15] Dr. Frenzy said that I'm sorry perspective standpoint, you know prescription peptide is an example the GOP one. The might be used for diabetes. There's several of those through the traditional insurance on the market and you get from Big Pharma. Those medicines are a thousand dollars per month for free for use.

[00:39:34] If you don't have insurance coverage, so the majority of the peptides that I use conkling practice or not anywhere near that expensive, you know it from Taylor mate high-quality manufactured in America. The real thing peptides are are not to the level of a pharmaceutical grade cost for these so there are Jeep.

[00:39:54] Dr. Francis said doctor franzi says he increased agrees completely Ryan Smith until he made our his go to Pharmacy [00:40:00] for peptides. He's behind them 100 percent. Thanks for addressing and I did get his name right? I know I gotta say I think I had a friend named Tommy franzese when I grew up and I looked at that name.

[00:40:08] I was like when he's related anybody from Brooklyn, dr. Jo anyway, Peter Krause who is lives in New Zealand. Says he's using obviously he probably means bpc. Right now before the injury or TV for yeah, he knew that he notices a huge difference in his recovery. That's the that's the thing about these peptides, right?

[00:40:33] They really do work, but your expectations have to be realistic. You can't buy into some of the stuff going on out there today what people are just saying all these peptides do everything and and probably if you got all the peptides together you could do everything. But you have to be realistic about your expectations.

[00:40:53] That's the real thing. He did say both here Peter Rao said he is using both bpc [00:41:00] 157 and thymosin beta for and they work wonders, you know any stuff on TV for to if you mentioned hair earlier. I mean, there's a lot of research going on that's not published. But but usually it's with some other things, you know to.

[00:41:13] It's goodbye on it. Like you said mixing peptides to get a positive response for local regeneration and even some non peptide modalities associated with that talking. For with their recovery personally, I'm not interested in that but I know a lot of the general population might be interested in more follicles.

[00:41:31] I think mine is a nuisance. I color my hair. So I'm really holding on to everything I can so in fact not our next show. We're probably going to talk about the copper tripeptides. Yeah, they have been shown. There's a couple good french studies that show that they regrow hair. Right. Absolutely.

[00:41:52] It's pretty pretty neat, you know some things going on there if you want more hair or you know, there's some good stuff coming down the road. Well, we're going to talk about it on the next pep talk [00:42:00] because that's actually right next topic because that's when sorry. Yeah. No, no. No, it's okay.

[00:42:04] Let's get them. Hang on. I want to take our last commercial break when we come back. I want to wrap up. The discussion on thymosin beta for make sure we didn't miss anything and then I want to talk about my embarkation on Epi towel on that is a result of our last show stay tuned. We'll be right back.

[00:42:21] Welcome back to the pep talk with dr. Carl page. You can enlist his brain by going to Medical transformation center.com and reaching out to him that I'm no you heard of about them on superhuman radio and get with the good doc. And Get on the Good Foot, so oh and doctor franzi said he really appreciated everything and he's heading to the or now.

[00:42:47] Oh boy. That doesn't sound like fun to me. Anyway, anytime I think what's that? I said I couldn't do it you to stand in one place too long. Yeah, I know and I don't like oh [00:43:00] ours because I'm usually laying down and knocked out and so that's not that's not my favorite thing to do. So let's talk about let's wrap up it did we miss anything about diamonds and beta for that you want to bring to the Forefront?

[00:43:11] I think we covered it generally as a recovery peptide, you know pretty well wide open safety window with a couple of restrictions. So just monitoring for overshooting on the blood count. And really it's should be as a tool in your tool belt. Like you said throughout PS doctors can find out about IPS and peptide society-dot- org can find out more about utilizing peptide.

[00:43:37] So this one throw that in. Okay, so now let's talk about every towel on so you and I did a Show recently about anti-aging peptides and every down on was one of them lots of interesting research out there all of it or most of it from Russia. So I have enough epithelial on now. To do a 20-day 10 milligrams a day protocol or [00:44:00] a 20 milligram 10 day.

[00:44:04] Protocol which are the two different ones that doctor Thoughts with a que era Nova. I wanted to comment so and I was talking to you off the air and I was saying, you know. What do you think should I just go for the 300 micrograms and night and just make this last forever or do I do it? And you said well if you got enough you might as well try it but there are some caveats right first of all concentration the size of the dose fitting it into the skin talk about that talk about that.

[00:44:31] Well, you know the volume was essentially no taking a subcu injection is much more than one unit a censure one a male. Excuse me. A hundred units are one in the mail. It is difficult the skillful separate you'll bruise. Most and downs a half half Cc or 50 unit Doses and split it up. So you're talking several injections at once to maybe even get you know 1 ml and your system.

[00:44:58] So a lot of times I'll go [00:45:00] to IM dosing if that's patients. We have them come in the office for that because they're not usually not used to drawing up and injecting intramuscularly unless they've been on TV for a long time and doing home injection. Are these an option if you have availability of that, but then when you get into injecting compounded medicines, that's a whole nother FDA world that you know, I personally don't participate in right Neal right?

[00:45:22] I'm so there's some difficulties there. So, you know, I'm jealous. You've got a supply you know, so I'm going to be reconstituting this myself, so I do have an advantage. And that is I have 50 milligram vials that will hold for ml's theoretically if I could get if I could reconstitute that with Just 2 to 3 m else.

[00:45:48] It would make a 10 milligram shot very realistic it would but you know, you have to worry about the concentration, you know, the. You know when you get to [00:46:00] concentrated, sometimes you can get more burning and ask them to injury and it's not quite as simple as doing that, you know, you want to try to get something as close to your own body's natural millimolar concentration of tissues and pH, you know, so it's not quite as simple as just lets a conscience.

[00:46:19] Break this down as much as possible to get the muscle. Okay, so if I went for the 10 milligrams a day and I could and I was willing to work with the concentration. Let's say I can get ten milligrams in to 1 ml and I was willing to put it into different locations. I'm going to go Sub-Q because I just don't want to I'm so tired of intramuscular injections after close to you know, 18, 15, 17 18 years.

[00:46:42] I just don't like them anymore. They just. And so it's not the same as Sub-Q for sure. It's yeah, it's so much easier. I don't worry about aspirating and you know, it's like oh, but so if I if I have a reasonable concentration I can get by with one. Ml. I'm only going to do 10 milligrams a day.

[00:46:58] Should I break that dose [00:47:00] up to maybe once in the afternoon and once before bed since it seems to produce melatonin. You know the the data I believe was with a single Administration. So if you want to get as close to the original study, you would try to get it all at one time, but I definitely would use it some of it before bed just because of the msh normal animal.

[00:47:23] Excuse me, you know release of melatonin right sleep. Well, that would be the most I would want to take advantage of that for sure. But some of that recovery is going to be just from intense deep sleep and die. That's got to be part of what happens there. Like we talked about earlier. So I've gotten I've got me I've gotten emails from people asking me have I done it yet.

[00:47:41] No, I haven't am I going to do it? Yes, I'm probably going to start this weekend. And I think what I'm going to do is I'm going to I'm going to reconstitute so that it's reasonable to do 10 milligrams in either one or two injections. Just moving from one site put five half of it in another site have been and I'm going to do it before bed half [00:48:00] hour before.

[00:48:03] That's probably what I would take. You know, I'm from a from a practical standpoint from a pure cost standpoint. That's a difficult amount from a cost standpoint for the average consumer to obtain the dosing and that's really been why you don't see that I get patients ask for that fairly frequently and I just cannot get them the volume.

[00:48:21] From a cost standpoint for them to do that full-on protocol. So most patients were using about a 300 micrograms protocol at bedtime that they use in not women get to the dist the 10 days or 20 days right now. I think that that makes sense. Yeah, but I figured since I've got this I'm going to go ahead and go go for it.

[00:48:40] I want to know if I had a in my fridge what else do we want to cover everything else Doc before we end this interview? You know, I think I'm just tired still reiterate to the general public that you're right peptides are winning early adopter phase right now. [00:49:00] They have been utilized at the very early adopting faced by the sports community.

[00:49:04] And now that there's you know, this is not uncommon horses got them first our horses which are human athletes sort of started to use these from a recovery standpoint initially and there's a lot of good things there but they, you know, preferably would be administered with some thought and. This is the why you would need them what the underlying physiology of their effect is and be combined with lifestyle and particularly the nutrition components of things that allow them to reach their Peak effect for whichever peptides are going to use and that's usually going to be best ferreted out by appropriately trained physician has some experience in this area.

[00:49:41] No, I have Plumbing frequently to ask me. Can you stop doing all these things and it's not working quite right? You know, what can you do to they'll get close and they'll get a lot of things that are in the right direction, but there are you know, got a couple things wrong nerve you're not dosing ride and again A lot of times not using pure peptides and will be disappointed in [00:50:00] a response because because they thought it didn't work.

[00:50:03] They just weren't using it correctly or didn't have a good product. Peter Ralph says he's been using every towel on for the last around 7 years and I remember him first talking about it with me. We talked about it back then and that's when I was still in Arizona and I just moved back from Arizona.

[00:50:19] And so Peter, how much are you using? What is your protocol if you there's a 1 minute delay between what we say here? And it gets out to the Internet. So let's wait for him to respond. I'd be interested in to you with his protocol is and also I wanted to mention something else that I glossed over earlier in Marco and Cognito those original post.

[00:50:41] He indicates that he's using his TB 500 with growth hormone, and he did not say growth hormone secreted gags. I I'm a beautiful opponent of growth hormone. But I almost feel like it's short-sighted just to use growth hormone and not the secrete agog because your pituitary [00:51:00] produces so many variants of growth hormone and just not just the 191 amino acid version.

[00:51:05] Do you think that it's wiser to use growth hormone secreted Gods let your pituitary produce its own growth hormones or to use just traditional hundred 191 growth hormone with with the TB. For a lot of reasons and you mentioned some of them it is preferential. I look at this across all hormones if we can get the body to produce its own hormones.

[00:51:27] It's much better than supplementing hormone. If the endocrine organ is still functioning properly all the way from growth hormone releasing hormones to even using GnRH has 4lh induction in testosterone production. If they otherwise you end up with treating the downstream impacts of loss of fertility or loss of testicular volume, which is talk to Robert.

[00:51:47] Cooler human growth hormone and like you said, it's a plea atrophic of selection of peptides that come out of your pituitary and isolating one little section of it and using that may have some positive effects but it also can have and [00:52:00] is well-documented Downstream negative effects from that using alone.

[00:52:04] Yeah. I kind of I feel the same way Peter just got back to us. He said he uses 10 milligrams per day short. And also two milligrams per day over long periods, and then he came back and said both work. Well, he uses the two milligrams was to drag out the Sleep benefits. So he was just really looking at the Sleep benefits at that point.

[00:52:27] And I think that's what's needed with Epi telling particular is kind of what is the right dose somewhere in there, you know 300 500 micro gram 1 gram gram. To 10 milligrams, you know, there's there's there's going to be a sweet spot in there that works for for sleep and for the you know, longevity telomere effects, so we would you know, I know what we've got from the Russian studies, but it would be nice to see some more of those repeated and and and and to and to kind of feather it out more reasonable doses to like there.

[00:52:59] It could very [00:53:00] well be that there is no difference between two milligrams. And 10 milligrams a day that the de the benefits don't verify why you should use that much right you peek out and basically your it's just like with CJ see, you know, 5 million 5 more units is going to give you a 98% of your GH pulse.

[00:53:22] Where is 10 units gives you the other two percent, so. Thanks for I want to mention something about the CJC in a second Marco. Incognito says he agrees endogenous is best using a growth hormone releasing hormone. However, he just happened to have some form of grade growth hormone on which is yeah.

[00:53:40] So Dylan gautreaux who is a big fan of the show. He lives in Texas now, he had started using LL 3 7 for his gut and I'm going to actually have him on the show. Because he has seen some profound changes that he never attributed to being from his gut after running LL three [00:54:00] seven four six weeks. But so here this is a funny story and if I hadn't done it myself, I wouldn't know what to tell him.

[00:54:07] So he said to me but the funny thing is every time I take my LL 370 because I get so lightheaded. That I have to sit down and I'm like wow, that is a new one. But you know everybody's different so I started asking more questions and I come to find out he takes all of his peptides at the same time I said, so what is all of your peptides and so one of them he said he was taking CJC 1295, which I don't call I.

[00:54:35] Recognize with DAC and without deck CJC 1295 was created with the drug Affinity complex to be different than growth hormone releasing hormone by having a 7-Day Half-Life so calling CJC 1295. With DACA without DAC is like saying do you want a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, or you want a Chevy then did very different things like either you're [00:55:00] taking G?

[00:55:01] Hrh, or you taking CJC 1295. But anyway, so he was taking the the CJC 1295 and I once took a five milligram shot of CJC 1295. And I got such a terrible Head Rush. I had it immediately a headache and I got dizzy and I had to sit down and I sat on the sofa. I remember I had my bachelor pad. I was going through my divorce and I thought what in the hell and so I communicated with a couple buddies of mine and the first guy said to me well, at least you know, this stuff is real.

[00:55:35] I said why he says because that's a ridiculously high dose and it would absolutely clear all of the sugar the glucose out of your blood spontaneously and that's what I was experiencing severe hypoglycemia. So I asked Dylan what are all your peptides? He said and when he's out told me CJC I said do me a favor.

[00:55:56] Tomorrow take your LL 3 7 by itself and [00:56:00] the he messaged me back and he said you're right. I took the L3 7. I didn't get lightheaded but later that afternoon when I took my CJC I got lightheaded and I told him I said back down on your dose a little bit. That's yeah you were you just you just over overshooting it essentially doesn't need that much and that's him where somebody else may be able to get by with that.

[00:56:18] He reached a saturation dose and that he was feeling the Overflow of too much of. Right 10 units is going to saturate 99% of people. You know five units will get you a 98 percent for most people some people do get a flush reaction with it kind of intermittently where they'll get flushed and facial redness and you know, that's fairly not rare, but it's not common in right myself might be once or twice a month and it's usually very very subtle it can sometimes be blunted a lot of those kind of histamine flush type reactions with dist adequate alkalinization.

[00:56:54] You know sodium potassium bicarbonate know that will stabilize a mess or release. [00:57:00] It's totally been on even over the counter you can get access to that and now you just you referred to the dosage in units again, but what would that be a micrograms? I'm thinking why like a hundred micrograms of a secret a hundred likes.

[00:57:12] Yeah. That's the correct dose. I'm just defaulted to using the unit doses because when explaining it to patients. If you tell them a hundred micrograms, they'll try to draw a hundred units on the syringe. So if you have a right exactly, yeah Peter Rouses he gets to flush at five milligrams as well.

[00:57:27] So there you go. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that was a big dose. But I'll tell you something. It's amazing, you know, those kind of things make you go. Wow this stuff, you know, melanotan is another one right? Like I have a lot of pain in my refrigerator. I only take 25 micrograms at a time and I take. To help reduce the build-up of intimal inflammation and plaque because it's been shown to be beautiful for that.

[00:57:50] But even at 25 micrograms, I get flush that's like men that this has been Indiana for like four months. It's still good. No, it still works. It's you keep [00:58:00] it cold. It's going to last for quite some time. Yeah, anyway, dr. Page, it's always great to spend time with you and covering this stuff. The next show we're going to do on the copper tripeptides as lots of benefits from those including one of them is regrowing hair, but that's not all they're good for and so once again called people go to Medical transformation center.com to learn more and that's all we have.

[00:58:21] See you [00:59:00] next