[00:00:00] Argh matey, welcome back to another episode of The Pirates of Penzance. Yeah. I had to wear a patch today. I watched myself in a couple of shows from this past week and it's hard to look at me with that. I so but it'll get better. I went to the doctor's today and he said it's a slow process, but it will get better.

[00:00:53] But in the meantime, I'm struggling. You have no idea how difficult it is to live life with one eye little things like [00:01:00] reaching for something. It's like oh wait. Oh, no I missed. Let me go a little further. Well parking your car where you have to pull forward up to a fence and you just hit it, but I have new appreciation for people who have lost their sight in one eye.

[00:01:16] It's it's terrible. It's tough tough thing to do. Okay, so. I get emails messages text messages from people all the time because they know that I love nootropics. I love to use things that improve brain function. I've always said that no matter how old I get as long as I can keep talking and thinking I could keep doing this show and I love to experiment.

[00:01:40] But the reality is that I've been pretty much let down by all of the over-the-counter nootropics that I've tried in the past. They've been nothing more than caffeine laced with some other funny things. They've made a lot of promises. They just made me feel agitated and stimulated. They didn't really make me feel more focused.

[00:01:59] They didn't make [00:02:00] me feel like I was able to think clearly. That all changed not too long ago when someone sent me a bottle of qualia focus and quality of Mind. How you doing? Dr. Greg Kelly? That's it. Thank you. Thanks for having me on call. Yeah, and I had to have you on so I told you off the air.

[00:02:21] I have really been skeptical about the whole nootropic area because really most of them are just caffeine a couple of the can't fancy stimulants, maybe some huperzine or some you know other catchy thing never dosed in the doses that were used in research because these things are very expensive the things that work a really expensive and so.

[00:02:43] I got a bottle of actually qualia mind first and I took a dose. And wow, like it was dramatic the way I the I was in the zone. We're all looking for something that puts [00:03:00] us in the zone. We've talked about this on the show forever. And literally I was able to meditate and get into a deep meditative state in a minute or two where normally I'd have to sit there for three or four minutes and start to go slowly and I thought wow there's something about this stuff here.

[00:03:18] So, Talk about the Genesis of this product. I know your organization is called Nora hacker Collective. Is it that everybody got together and said we can do this, right if we put our minds together so a bit like the the collective part comes in really with the idea of Citizen science. So, you know people like yourself are out there self experimenting.

[00:03:40] You know, whether it's Reddit groups longest city bodybuilding.com. There's really bright people discussing things like nootropics and other high-performance things. And so the idea of the collective was supposed to tap into that but also find experts that we could communicate with as where [00:04:00] you know, whatever it happens to be our entry was in the nootropic where recently dropped the product into the healthy aging space.

[00:04:08] We're working on a sleep product, right? So it's the Wii is smarter than the idea that you know, my core team alone is you know competent, but we can do a lot better if we also bring in outside expertise. Okay, but it's very expensive to produce a real nootropic and we're going to get into what classify something as a nootropic in a moment.

[00:04:31] What I found is like in the past. I've thought I'll just go to bulk supplements.com and I'll just buy all the raw materials myself. You could literally lay out five $600 for raw materials and still not have a blend as complete and comprehensive as what you guys put into these bottles here. Yeah, we put a ton of what I would say like self-experimentation resources into the quality products.

[00:04:56] Oh. I believe we did close to [00:05:00] sixty iterations of the recipe. So to speak of the formulation before we'd landed on one that we really felt confident helped a lot of people and so, you know. Things like adding a new ingredient in changing the ratios of things all of those things actually made subtle differences and we're enough kind of tweaks of the recipe made a big difference.

[00:05:21] So what you would often see like you mentioned a lot of the nootropic stocks out there in you know in say the retail Market on Amazon things like that are very loaded on caffeine, but caffeine's not a more is better thing actually most things that we would use in dietary supplements or. Exercise they follow what we would call the Goldilocks rule where you know a little is not great too much is going to cause problems in another area but there's a just right amount right?

[00:05:50] And that's that's right. I'm out shifts a little when you start to stack it with other things. So caffeine can get some amazing benefits from what I would think of as moderate doses. [00:06:00] So I noticed this right. So one day I took my dose and then I actually took just a little crumb. Of a caffeine pill and I did not feel better.

[00:06:13] It wasn't a situation. Why adding caffeine a little more caffeine to this mix made you feel better. In fact, it kind of made me feel washed out. Okay, almost yeah.  Yeah, I mean I think like you wouldn't be alone right I think. I was at the Arnold Schwarzenegger Expo and Columbus back. I think it was the beginning of March and February and I was a guest of one of the people putting on the show.

[00:06:40] So I got a nice goodie bag of all kinds of you know, free supplements energy drinks blah blah blah. I really couldn't do any of the drinks because you're all crazy high in calcium. Right? Right. So what what qualifies. Something as a nootropic obviously caffeine and nicotine of being [00:07:00] called nootropics because they stimulate brain activity, but that's not really all there is to nootropics.

[00:07:06] Right? No, I the nootropics goes back in the toilet term was coined by a Romanian researcher. That's created what we think of as the. Initial nootropics, which are rassa Thames and his idea what piracetam was the compound at the time and what he noticed when he gave this to people and improve their focus and concentration.

[00:07:27] And so he coined the term nootropic for things that basically help our brain perform much better. But his idea was without a big downside. So like strict letter of the law for nootropic is. Better performance without big side effects. And so I think the terms not always use like that. It's most commonly used at least in the neuro hacker collective experience as things that improve brain performance.

[00:07:55] So, you know, like riddle ends and Metal. Been a date and [00:08:00] modafinil would be used as nootropics as well. But those can also have seen a fairly significant downsides. And so we tend to use it much more as outside without downside. Okay, so there are other attributes this to nootropics that kind of almost makes you want to second class of nootropic.

[00:08:19] So there's nootropics that you feel. But then there's nootropics that you don't necessarily feel but they're actually changing the architecture of the brain through chemicals like bdnf and and fiberglass fibroblast activation factor, which would unit causes new neuronal sprouting. So are they all is that's just part of nootropics to all nootropics have some sort of stimulatory effect on changing brain architecture.

[00:08:50] I would say no I so I even so the way I would simply think of it. There's nootropic compounds that are going to have a much more [00:09:00] immediate effect. So coffees caffeine's classic example, I you take a pee and you should feel that fairly quickly, you know, 30 minutes an hour and typically for a couple hours.

[00:09:11] Then there's other things like bacopa, which is out of the are you Vedic herbal tradition, but copas do not something you feel when a day. And actually in the studies, but couple works better over two months than after one month that works better after one month and it didn't two weeks. So it's much more but I would think of as a long-term nootropic and doing some of the things that you mentioned.

[00:09:32] It's actually repairing the architecture. So to speak thanking our brain better over time and we would think of a good staff is doing both right someone should be able to feel it like you did the first time you took qualia. Mind immediately, but it should also being a should be doing a lot to get those long-term benefits his things like memory.

[00:09:55] That's a long-term game. So so let's look at quality of mind for a [00:10:00] second then we'll talk about quality of focus what what are the difference? What's the difference in quality of mind and quality of. So what we would we would say internally that quiet Focus would be the essential nootropic and qual.

[00:10:14] Your mind is the Premier version of it. So quiet mine has a lot more in it that do a couple things one is if you're under high stress call you mine has a lot more to help you deal effectively with stress. To is a lot of the long-term gain has to do with neurons and essentially the membranes because the membranes are where the ears and eyes of our nervous system resides so The receptors basically and the health of the membrane is largely predicated on you know, like how healthy the cell membrane of our nervous system is and mine has much more in it that helps the membranes work better over time.

[00:10:54] So Aldo DHA as an example, which is the one of the essential [00:11:00] one chain fatty acids. It's got phosphatidyl serine, which is another important thing and what you find in the research when you make membranes work better The receptors embedded in them work better as well. So in essence the whole signaling process of neurotransmission and would your audience know the idea of long-term potentiation neuroplasticity things like that.

[00:11:21] Well, yeah, I we want to talk about neuroplasticity is very important because let's face it. I'm just not interested in feeling something today. I want my brain to benefit from getting better and better over time. And at least if nothing else pushing back at the shrinking that we see in the Aging brain.

[00:11:40] Yeah, so mine would just have more in it to do that portion. Okay, that's important. Okay. Focus has like a staff that does that but the stack in mind for that is much more powerful. So we think of the mind is more the premier and like a anecdotal story. So I've got a great fan we've known each other since we were, you know [00:12:00] elementary school and I was in Las Vegas for a 4M show in December, which is an antique we show and gave him a bottle of mind now, he's like my memory of always thought is as.

[00:12:12] Fairly, excellent. He if you'd asked him like he's the guy that forgets names forgets appointments. Everything lost its in his calendar. He texted me about a month later and said, wow, I can't believe this is like night and day. I'm remembering names appointments all those things for really the first time in decades.

[00:12:28] So that's part of the long-term game and I actually had given him call you mind to do that with so what we see with like good stats. Is that over time. You know the idea of reverse tolerance. Yes. Yes, what would typically happen with something like caffeine? And you see that all the time is when someone starts drinking caffeine, we're time.

[00:12:53] They need more and more to get the same effect. Right what we see fairly frequently with [00:13:00] qualia and mine more so than. Focus is over time people sometimes need lots of laws to get the same effect. Right? We believe that is because of what you mentioned that really the long-term the neuroplasticity the long-term potentiation the membranes of receptors the neurotransmitters, all those things are working better.

[00:13:19] So the reality is that this could help the Aging brain stay youthful James bomb just joined the podcast we're talking about a product called qualia and it's there's two different. Forms is quality of mind and quality of focus when it talked about focus more here in just a second, but the the product has a 15% discount for those of you listening to the show today.

[00:13:43] If you go to neural hacker.com and use the code, shr, you can actually say 15% off and I got to tell you something. I don't usually. Blatantly or unabashedly tell people to try something but this stuff is legit and [00:14:00] reality is we have so much more to do today with push notifications and distractions and you know, it's just crazy world that we live in today that your neurotransmitters get depleted.

[00:14:12] You don't have an unlimited amount of dopamine. You don't have an unlimited amount of these neurotransmitters in your brain. And one you run out you start performing poorly you start making bad decisions and so products like this and I personally like the quality of mind but mind or Focus will help you navigate life a lot better would you it was that an overstatement when I said.

[00:14:37] No, I would say it's one of the consistent themes that comes up in feedback. I know we got like, you know, I don't get to see all the testimonials. I'm more in the science R&D than that. Customer facing end, but I want to say it was like around january/february someone wrote in to us from the United Kingdom.

[00:14:57] And basically the gist of the story was I've been [00:15:00] on quality of mind for a year and it's the best investment in me I've ever met. I started out that year as a coder and my performance has been so improved over that time period that I've Advanced a few levels in my job. And I'm now the chief technology officer.

[00:15:15] Wow, and so, you know, that's more the outlier right this that's not going to happen to everyone but similar to that person my friend that I mentioned we hear all the time from people that start on our product that that it's made a noticeable difference in how they show up in the world. One of the funny things is occasionally the person taking of won't notice and they'll stop and then their spouse will reach out and say take it I get them back on this I notice a difference and for me one of the things I noticed most immediately was by morning procrastination.

[00:15:49] I was just like immediately like ready to tackle things. The other thing was more subtle and it was over time. I just started to notice. This was maybe about two months in [00:16:00] that I was way more patient with people towards the end of my day and especially driving home in traffic things that would normally, you know, be like a little low-level irritation.

[00:16:10] I was able to shrug off go. And I think that has to do with what you were talking about with we have all these things that are constantly coming in and challenging our brain and nervous system. I tend to use the word band with my God. They just constantly being squeezed and for me, it seems like being on qualia really helps my dad with work much more efficiently.

[00:16:32] Yeah, so my audience will chuckle but over the past four or five years. I have tried to give up coffee. Because coffee is destroyed my gut it really has I can I can tell you that it's coffee because I I stopped drinking coffee. And then I start abusing something else some other caffeine product and for years, you know back in the day back in 2002 through [00:17:00] 2005 when I was training as a powerlifter.

[00:17:02] I consumed a thousand to fifteen hundred milligrams of caffeine anhydrous a day. And so taking a gram of caffeine a day to me is not anything absurd. Yeah, but every time I try to quick coffee I end up going for other forms of caffeine to fill in and I still don't feel good. And I have I mean I am the best example of reverse tolerance because I could take a thousand milligrams of caffeine and I could go to sleep.

[00:17:33] I mean, it just doesn't do anything I get to that point where it stops working for me I go. Okay. I have to do something now, so. About three weeks ago I decided to stop coughing. And normally it's a struggle I can tell you Nick it and the caffeine is a drug you look for it. I don't know if it has I can't say it's addictive because addictive qualities include [00:18:00] increasing brain architecture in the area of the addiction so that the addiction gets stronger because you have more neurons going we want you we want you but it definitely is definitely does build up to a.

[00:18:14] Deal. Well at that same time as when I got the quality of mind and I thought you know, I'm gonna do something. I'm going to start I'm going to try see if I can use quality of mind to stop drinking coffee. Now. It's three weeks now, I have not had any coffee and I don't look for coffee because in the morning now, I take quality of mind.

[00:18:34] I take a shower first because I love that wake up feeling that the shower gives me now. I'm awake already. Then I take my qualia and I tell you I literally start to. Happy I can't use any other word, but happy I go from as you said. Procrastinating all I don't want to do that now with the one eye.

[00:18:54] It's like everything I do is just a reminder that I only have one eye right now and it's like I put off everything in the [00:19:00] morning. I'll just do it when I get to the studio. But now I don't do that because I feel like I get happy and then I grab my laptop and I start working on something but I never thought about it, but you're right.

[00:19:11] I have actually stopped procrastinating in the morning without caffeine because of qualia. There's no doubt in my mind about. We are so that procrastination is one of the most common feedback we get from people that start to take volume mind your focus and like similar to you. I was for your audience.

[00:19:30] I was a Navy officer in my, you know, previous iteration in the in the 80s and the name, it would be literally then ran on coffee and cigarettes and and a lot of it right and so that we what I used to see in practice. Coffee particular but caffeine is. People that are not getting enough sleep are much more dependent on coffee and a much more prone to get the bigoted big negatives [00:20:00] when they stop it like the excruciating headaches like that often is a clue that you've built up some sleep debt that you need to pay down and caffeine's one of those interesting things.

[00:20:10] I saw this was for another project. I'm working on with sleep and I saw a study it wasn't too long ago and it was. Using caffeine when they started people on antidepressants and what they found is just a small dose 60 milligrams. So you're talking about probably like a 6 or 7 ounce cup of coffee that amount of caffeine help the antidepressant medications work much better, but more wasn't better write it but we tend to have this idea in the US and I joke about it with some of my friends like more is better, but what you see when you start to look at.

[00:20:46] I would say scientific studies through we well, I guess stepping back. We consider ourselves a complexity science team here and one of the ideas within complexity science has this idea that we're constantly adapting to things and the [00:21:00] other idea is this idea of almost a U-shaped curve so we know about this curve run exercise, right?

[00:21:05] You start a new new exercise routine, you can improve improve but eventually if that's the only thing you're doing you're going to plateau. And then you keep doing it you all over trade my performance will weekend. So you see that same theme in dietary supplements and caffeine would be one of those things where the like to me.

[00:21:23] The nootropic goes is going to be somewhere from about 50 milligrams to 200. It's going to vary but that's that's the range you're really looking for for sports performance. You can get away with a lot more because you're so you know. I guess aggressively using your muscles during the time period right after it so that those can swing as high as 500 600 milligrams some people like you even more so you often see and like the sports drinks, you know, three four five hundred milligrams of caffeine, which is just Way Beyond the threshold where you would get the maximum brain [00:22:00] performance results and see brain performance is where.

[00:22:05] Fatigue occurs first, you know you fatigue doesn't cut a curve peripherally, you know, when people say they have chronic chronic fatigue and then they go to these doctors all your mitochondria. No start with their brain fatigue starts in the brain most often. These people don't have any dysfunction with their skeletal muscular system what they really have is and see this leads back to.

[00:22:32] The whole discussion of procrastination procrastination is a governing ability of the brain to go you want to do that. But we really don't have the gas to do that right now. It's actually a protective mechanism if you're procrastinating it's not because you're a lazy SOB. It's because your brain is going dude.

[00:22:53] Give us a break man. Like let's go. Let's let's sleep in for a few days. How about that one? Yeah. [00:23:00] Percent agree like that Central Governor idea of fatigue now is one of the big I guess models of exercise. So the idea being we don't disengage from exercise because our muscles are physically fatigued we disengage because our brain is mentally fatigued and one of the core early user basis of quality was actually athletes because they noticed they could get much more return on investments on their exercise if they did a nootropic before it.

[00:23:25] Yeah. I want to take a break. I want to also answer a question so lend moscovitz, who is a good friend of mine said what is a ND? That's a naturopathic doctor. Correct? Yes. Yeah, we are we're licensed as basically as primary care doctors in about 14 States. Okay. All right. I just want to let him know what that was.

[00:23:46] We're going to take a quick commercial break when we come back. I want to talk about the backloading. I want to talk about the ingredients that are in your product that actually help replenish these neurotransmitters. So that while you're performing better, you're not running [00:24:00] out of fuel as you go.

[00:24:01] How's that sound sounds excellent. Okay, stay tuned. We'll be right back with more. We'll be right back.

[00:24:09] Welcome back C. Dr. Greg, I have to do everything. I'm working the video. I'm doing this dream. I gotta have a brain that works. Yeah, I can't afford to have to come to work on it on half a brain. I just can't do it and I love this stuff. I really really do and so I want to talk about the the things in it that actually help back load because it's not all about just putting the foot on the gas pedal.

[00:24:33] It's about replenishing those neurotransmitters that I mentioned before what are some of the ingredients that you put in there specifically for that sure so on. Why I think just stepping back if I can for a second. So there is cognitive domains really they would be would be the buckets of. Like one of the main ones is attention, right?

[00:24:53] Another one would be visual motor skills. So this is your reaction time your ability to react quickly to the environment. A third [00:25:00] one is memory a fourth one would be considered executive function executive function has to do with the ability to make good decisions over time to write really take our foot off like doing that that is for us and do more good things.

[00:25:14] And then the two other ones one is language and the other is the 66 is the social. Yeah, so when we start to think of things like memory and executive function, I think primarily of two Pathways one would be acetyl choline. And so a building block molecule would be the nutrient choline and the other is dopamine and we there's a few different entries into both of those but let's start with the acetylcholine one if that's okay, please sure so choline the best food source by far is that you?

[00:25:48] And because eggs have been somewhat in dis run repute since I don't know the 70s, maybe you're right and so tangibly what happens is people eat more egg whites less egg yolks, [00:26:00] right and the Institute of medicine has essentially said choline is one of those nutrients that they advise we get a certain amount.

[00:26:08] So it's not there's not an RDA for it, but there's definitely a recommendation that that adults get x amount and what they've also found is about eighty percent of adults. Don't get that amount. And so when we don't get enough choline, it becomes really almost impossible to build a pipeline like you said, And make the acetylcholine we need for things like memory for choline also has a significant role in attention and especially in visual motor reaction times, but calling like we talked about with caffeine is also not a more is better.

[00:26:43] It's a Goldilocks thing. So if you take too much choline is start to lose some performance aspect. So what we do with we again try to balance it with the. The other things in it and we use in mind a couple different [00:27:00] sources of choline molecules. One is Alpha GPC. One of the cool things about Alpha GPC is it's been studied both as a nootropic and isn't ergogenic.

[00:27:09] So weightlifters taking out the APC and again moderate doses more has it work better actually are able to do better with way performance over time. We also have what's called siddha choline, which is enters the choline cycle in it. They are very expensive ingredients. Very expensive agree. Those big Colleen sources.

[00:27:30] I would say are the single most price ingredients currently in well, I would say Alpha GPC the choline algal DHA fostering rhodiola. Those are all super expensive. Yeah, so so choline that's one of the buckets that you're filling up all the time. So that the brain can function properly. What about some of these other neurotransmitters like dopamine for instance?

[00:27:57] It's I was just reading so I've been reading some [00:28:00] studies about phosphodiesterase and we're not talking about sexual pills here. There's 11 different forms of phosphodiesterase ins many of them. Have amazing functions in the hippocampus the the cerebellum the the cerebral cortex. They affect brain function.

[00:28:21] They affect motor skills and so on so there's becoming a greater interest in the non-sexual. Phosphodiesterase Inhibitors, you know 1 3 4 11 and so on because they may actually protect against Parkinson's disease. They may actually help people with ADHD and and some other brain issues. So we know that nitric oxide.

[00:28:46] Is it very important molecule for the brain? Super important one that as we age more and more people to not to make enough of it. Right? I think we're you know, depending on the age range you're looking at, you know, you can get you know, three out of four [00:29:00] people not making enough. So so and then of course it play has a strong effect on dopamine.

[00:29:05] So that's where I was going dopamine is one of those things that. People think that they have an endless amount of dopamine and you don't your brain May and especially if you're asleep and paired because the brain makes most of the dopamine at night when you're sleeping. So what do you what it's in this this blend here that actually promotes the synthesis of dopamine for.

[00:29:24] So we have three dopamine precursors. So the building block for dopamine would be phenylalanine and tyrosine as amino acids. So we include both one of the things you'll see when you look at you know Pathways in the brain or in the body is that different things enter at different points and what we what we believe and what seems to play out when we do our formulations and test things in the real world is if you just put a whole bunch of one of.

[00:29:54] Molecules and it's almost like creating a traffic jam. Yeah, there's all these things have to go through enzymes to be made into [00:30:00] the next thing where if you put lower doses, but. Things that enter in multiple points the tropics seems to flow much better, right? And then the third thing is we have mucuna which is an herb and it's a that disadvantage that's actually been used by naturopathic doctors for people who have Parkinson's disease McCune apprentices worked instead of giving them levodopa and Carbidopa, they give him a coon.

[00:30:27] Yep. Yeah, so it turns out there's a few things in the The Bean family that are natural sources of l-dopa fava beans would be another good course, they're not as good as source as the mucuna which is a beam but the amount of l-dopa in the dose. We use would be like having a serving of fava beans most and the only guy who's not as Anthony Hopkins anyway, right?

[00:30:50] So Papa bientot, so what happens is. You want you want all of those? What I would think of as the precursors right the building block molecules, but then [00:31:00] we also need all those enzymes to work. Well so that you get a flow through the entire pathway. And so that's where a lot of the Botanicals come in or like you had mentioned huperzine earlier huperzine has to do with one of the breakdown enzymes in the choline pathway.

[00:31:16] So what happens when you stack things that together that work is substrate. And upregulate the enzyme you just get much better flow through the whole system. And then with the pde enzyme you mentioned, so that's. Stacks like coleus with caffeine with a few other things come in because they operate you late that and the downstream from doing a better job.

[00:31:41] There is the b d and f molecule that you mentioned earlier, right? What we do a better job on that pathway. We get more of the long term plasma TV. I was going to say the bdnf is really critical because that's where all the magic is as far as repairing and changing the architecture and creating this [00:32:00] neuroplastic environment for the.

[00:32:01] Pain, yeah, super important and one of the things so you mentioned that anhydrous caffeine or something. You took large amounts of when you are in the proper lifting days. So what we use for caffeine is a coffee Berry. And it's got a significant amount of caffeine at standardized for that. But a lot of the rest are polyphenols and the the polyphenols in the coffee Berry actually help upregulate betta bdnf.

[00:32:26] So it's just a much better way to get your caffeine when you use the whole coffee Berry because what you find out is polyphenols or something that we get. I would say it would be in general a dietary deficiency for most of us. Yeah and polyphenols just like big picture things plants make more when they're stressed.

[00:32:44] So they're almost like the stress response molecules for plans. And when we consume those it almost passes on some of that stress resistance to us. So polyphenols are like drugs don't let anybody kid you some of them are not great and some of [00:33:00] them are wonderful. So what you're telling me, is that the quality of mind.

[00:33:06] Does increase bdnf through some of these Pathways yet, but at least in preclinical studies in animal studies, some of the ingredients have definitely done that. Okay, like we did it's just not possible to really do human experiments. Yeah. I know. I know I know and that one of the key things is we want to boost be the enough especially early in the day and when we do that.

[00:33:27] What are the I think of wakefulness and sleep as flip sides of McCoy at some when we boost more BD and out early in the day. It tends to help with sleep on the other side of the coin later and I track my sleep with three different devices. Okay, and I use things at night for sleep and I am now getting almost two hours of deep sleep and two hours of REM sleep.

[00:33:50] Wow, that's a fantastic know. I am so excited. I'm sorry. I use some peptides before bed. I actually didn't use [00:34:00] Melatonin last night for the first time in 20 years, and I used the epithalamus on which promotes melatonin production. Action and I got a great night sleep last night and I was worried.

[00:34:11] I was like, oh, this is the first time I'm not taking melatonin in 20 years. I probably not going to sleep and I slept fantastic last night. So I'm a big proponent on knowing your sleep, you know measuring it. You can't manage it if you don't measure it. Yep, and you got to know what it what you're doing at night when you're sleeping.

[00:34:27] So James bomb is asking a question. I think he's I don't know if he's asking me or you will I see you at the lecture at the meet up this. I don't know what meet up he's talking about the you know, I don't maybe you can elaborate a little bit more James. Okay. So let's talk a little bit about the dosing for a second sure most companies sell a supplement and I really like this about you guys.

[00:34:54] You know, you're really all in your like we're going to do this right or not going to do it at all. [00:35:00] And so. Most companies sell a supplement that when you buy it it says it has 30 servings. But when you take it at doses that are designed to be taken to see the desired results, you find that all I only have 15 servings in here when I took the requisite seven capsules first few days, and then I realized I think I need less.

[00:35:25] And so I found out that between three and four caps a day is like my sweet spot, which means that bottle goes so much further now for me. So talk about that for a second please we are. So there's suggested or recommended doses seven a day for qualia mind five a day for Quality focus and that would get you know, like the both would give you 90 milligrams of caffeine as an example at that those that give you this study dose for like Alpha GPC as an example, but and a lot of like hardcore nootropic people that's a good dose for [00:36:00] but for me, I always like to try to like you dial in what the dose is for me and what?

[00:36:06] For me I landed on for date similar to you that that seems to be so I think of the 80/20 rule but in the real world, it's usually 90 10 or more like I get as far as I can tell almost a hundred percent of the subjective benefits at that dose. We're more would just be maybe incremental and so what we've seen in there's one person in the office, that would be more on the caffeine sensitive.

[00:36:35] Takes one a day the few other people take in that 3/4, but we are a big proponents of trying to dial in the right dose for you. And then you took a community this idea your mileage may vary y mmv. Yeah, there's there's no generic recommendation. That's going to be perfect for everyone and it's I would say in general.

[00:36:59] I'll [00:37:00] take the full seven. If I'm doing a trade show and I know I'm going to be on my feet interacting with people in a much different way than my normal day I'm going to drive up to see from some friends in Allah and be in traffic for a lot of the day things that would try my nervous system a bit more I'll boost my dose but on a general day like my routine is I get up have a big glass of water take for quality or with it it's about a 12 40 minute drive to the gym and go to the gym get a workout in.

[00:37:31] And by then I'd say choir starts kicking in for me somewhere in the early part of my workout and it helps me then just be really mentally strong through the rest of it. But four to seven. I wouldn't notice any more for the seven would have for the for right and and the reality is it correct me if I'm wrong.

[00:37:50] I'm just going from memory, but it's only about 10 milligrams of caffeine per capsule. Yeah, there's well. It would be a probably 12. Yeah it is. 90 and seven [00:38:00] capsules. Yeah, so, you know in three or four you're talking like in that say 42, you know 55 their micro dosing range. I mentioned earlier that seemed to help in that study on depression.

[00:38:13] So like for a lot of people that's. Like a really good entry point, right? And I think I also mentioned that their dose range in general for caffeine in nootropic FX his 50 to 200. Right? Right and quite often what you see is that 80/20 rule at the lowest threshold is where you get most of the game.

[00:38:35] Right? Right. So James bomb is telling us that in Escondido. Your company is doing a meet-up this month. And it is let me see if I can get up here real quick. And we're going to put the dates and times up here because people can go presenting a new model of natural medicine and treating chronic disease.

[00:38:54] It's free share the event and the date and time trying to [00:39:00] get it we need this Library. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah you go. Maybe even first made 21st. Yeah, May 21st 6 p.m. To 8 p.m. Yeah. There you go. Yes, I will I will be there. I'm not speaking. It's going to be Daniel who I mentioned earlier with another naturopathic doctor that works in Encinitas their co-presenting, but I would expect a lot of our team to be in the audience.

[00:39:24] Yeah, it's so there you go. If you're in California check it out. It'll be fun. So I want to come back for a second. So something that I've noticed and I don't know if your research shows this I noticed that when I do forget something. I'm going to be 61 this year, right? So I'm starting to worry like, you know, am I going to start getting my brain is going to get funky?

[00:39:46] And when I do forget something it's preceded a millisecond before with the fear of forgetting it.  So there's an anxiety component. I believe [00:40:00] to not recalling something that nanosecond before. You don't recall it you go. Oh God. I hope I can recall it and it was there you can you can see the information you had but then it just goes and.

[00:40:15] I attribute this to kind of anxiety and fear of not being able to remember things actually makes you not be able to remember things. So I noticed that when I use quality of mind and I talked about earlier kind of makes you feel in that zone and you talked about it to you tend to be more calm by the end of the day you're so that what in the what in the blend is is governing the gas pedal it's saying okay, you know, we're going to push the gas but we're going to pull back here.

[00:40:42] What does that? So one of the things would be l-theanine which is a amino acid like compound from green tea and its I would think of a mini stack with caffeine and l-theanine would give like so you think of the core thing that caffeine does [00:41:00] is arousal right wakefulness alertness and lots of good things come from that but when you stack feigning with it, it gives more of that calm alertness.

[00:41:09] And we get like functionally we perform way better when we have that calmness with alertness or calm energy often is a way that people would reference it. And so what happens with l-theanine is it makes our brain waves. We enter a little bit more of the Theta state which would be a pseudo meditation state.

[00:41:29] So when you stop that that helps. I think what you'd also see is the choline as a little of that so when you stack some choline with so I guess one of the like my story I remember from when I was in high school. One of our elective classes was speed reading one semester and typing about right. So I did great at the speed reading.

[00:41:54] I was one of those kids that move super fast, right? And when I took typing so I was the fastest typer in the [00:42:00] class, but I was also the most mistake and so what you tend to see is caffeine would tend to like it Speed without direction. Right? So it looks they have this idea of speed but also speed with direction is a different thing like that's velocity, right?

[00:42:16] So caffeine I think in a general sense would give you the speed component. But when you stack out they need some of the choline some of the other things and qualia now you start to get speed with Direction. And so what that means is you're going faster without making the mistakes. Very important. I want to plug the website again.

[00:42:33] It's neuro hacker.com. The coupon code is shr 15% off. There's a 100 day money-back guarantee who doesn't want their brain to work better. I just want to see who you are. Please send me an email. So my good friend lend moskovitz is trying to ask a question and I actually can decipher it. So Len is really saying because our evolutionary ancestors didn't have to look at a cell [00:43:00] phone.

[00:43:00] While they were driving to LA and all the other things that we do then and EMF he points out to we need to supplement with stuff like this. I would say yes in a modern age because our brain is being taxed so much more we need things like this. But what about EMF and RF have you guys started to look into the effects of this RF soup, we live in and its effects on the brain.

[00:43:27] So we I would say some of the collective has spent a lot of time doing that and the way I would just like simplify it down if I was working with patients. I tend to think of that as a structure right a fairly big one, right that didn't exist before and. Well, at least in the same general age range when I was a kid in the 60s.

[00:43:48] There was a game that we got a Christmas called the last straw. I think I always refer to it as the camel game. But basically the break the camel's back. Yes, like yeah for your audience. There was [00:44:00] basically a. Toy camo each side had a basket and you would spin a wheel and the color pointed to you have to add that straw in run different way.

[00:44:09] It was and there was a hinge in his back when he had too much his back would break. Yeah, right. And so that's how I think in a general sense of how stress work. So I think that I tend to think of two Dynamics in play one is the strength of the camel's back right the resilience. So we want to do more to make us stronger back so we can carry more straws.

[00:44:29] And then the straws in the basket. So EMF would be a big heavy straw and for you know, in a lot of ways the EMF superb a then there's not much we can do to remove that straw. There are definitely things we can do to make the camel's back stronger and there's definitely things we can do to remove other straws and so for me, that's the game like like.

[00:44:50] Like the straws we can't do much about I'm not going to spend a lot of time fixating or being neurotic about because we can't do anything about that. Right but there's always straws we [00:45:00] can remove and there's always things we can do to make the back more resilient. And so that's where adaptogens come in so quality both quality.

[00:45:08] Have a core of no adaptogen things that help us be much more resilient. So I rhodiola bacopa those types of herbal adaptogens. Yeah our brain be able to deal much more efficiently with the strides in the basket Len moskovitz is supplement royalty you. Len ran metrics for many years why can the day and when it was really a big company, so it's really great to have him sitting in the audience today and participating.

[00:45:39] Thank you Len. I'll send you your five dollars later. We're going to take a quick commercial break when we come back. I want to come back and talk about eternal. Peace. And if anybody has any questions, they can post them on Facebook will answer them, but you guys are getting. It's young people want their brains to work better for other reasons, but us older folk, we want them to work better because we're afraid that we'll [00:46:00] end up in that nursing home.

[00:46:01] And so it makes sense that you have this audience that that is focused on your products. And so you're starting to introduce some other things. Let's talk about that when we come back. Okay. I stay tuned. We'll be right back with more of dr. Greg Kelly. I'm telling you. I'm having a hard time working the control board.

[00:46:21] II went to put the dry image up there and I realized oh my God, dr. Greg is still on the camera. Hold on a second. Sorry about that. So let's talk a little bit about eternity is your earnest. What is it? So what? Like I guess going back the one nor hacker first decided to enter the you know, I create a lot of choir was created because the general idea was if we can get the brain working better all kinds of good things happen from there.

[00:46:50] We make better choices. We perform better in our day. So it turn us was kind of our next leap and it was into what we would think of [00:47:00] as the cellular aging mitochondria space. So basically house band or healthy aging and so. This really is a blend of about 38 nutrients designed really to make our cells work better the idea being what our cells can do more work.

[00:47:15] They get to all the things they don't usually get. He kind of mentioned it with qualia a bit in how we show up for work and you know being able to get to some of the things that we didn't normally get to so what we find with aging is two main themes with aging one would be damaged accumulation, right?

[00:47:34] So I are like to I like to call it metabolic debris. Yep. Yeah, I'll start like that builds up that and quite literally ourselves aren't able to get to the job of cleaning that up like they did when we were younger. And so it's like a snowball rolling downhill the other one and this would be generally called programmed aging the idea being that in a sense is almost like a planned obsolescence built in [00:48:00] the how our DNA express its expresses itself.

[00:48:02] So certain things just show up and run differently as we age and so those two things we think are both constantly ongoing one essentially making the other worse. And so anything we can do to intervene. It either tends to make it so that functionally our cells are able to do more and when they are able to do more we're able to do more so we turn this was really designed trying to understand all the different Pathways that go into cleaning up debris and making the that Sally row signaling the program Beijing work better.

[00:48:39] So interesting some interesting things there glycine, which actually. Seems to thwart Mathai inning in a high-protein diet and stops the the associated premature aging from a high protein diet. Give me I'm just looking at this right now. What are some of the big players in? [00:49:00] First of all, so I would say one of them would be Resveratrol.

[00:49:06] So Resveratrol is something that's found initially. It was isolated from from grapes. But and then there's a lot of sources of it. Yeah. Yeah that a lot of these plant molecules are things that plants make more of when they're stressed. So if you would have, you know have exposed grades to drier weather.

[00:49:26] More insects things that stress the plan ahead and makes them more robust that builds up more tannins. It actually makes like like I love a good cab from a dry region for that reason because it just tastes so good. Yeah, so I'm Resveratrol and what we use is by of it, which is a extract from France from French red grapes, and it uses the skin and seeds and Pulp to standardize for just a low amount of Resveratrol.

[00:49:54] Five percent but it also then has a lot of what are called opcs the illegal Merit program [00:50:00] thiocyanate another great compound up super important and what you see in the researchers similar to the I mentioned there's six big domains for cognition. There's these nine what are called Hallmarks of Aging so these are essentially the characteristics of things that go wrong as we age and Resveratrol and the great bull feces.

[00:50:22] Show up over and over as ways to mitigate some of these things. We just think a great backs track is a lot better way to go than a high dose of Resveratrol exempt well, and we're starting to see that lower doses of Resveratrol actually seem to play out better. Now that we've done the research is starting to come forward.

[00:50:41] You also have an interesting form of our alpha lipoic acid. You have the sodium salt of a talk about that. Yes around. Most alpha lipoic acid a look poke acid is a mix of two different enantiomers and they had cameras is what it's called biochemically, but in our body there's really only one [00:51:00] like what they're mirror images of each other is what it basically means.

[00:51:03] So the form we're using is the most pure. That's available to give the highest percent of just that one that mimics what we have in ourselves. Is it the term a chirality or Kyra shirah at CH something? Yeah been Fanta mean I haven't seen that in anything in a long time talk about that. So benfotiamine is a synthetic form of thiamine vitamin B1, right?

[00:51:31] We're actually somewhat on the fence. There's a few European companies where it's regulated as an OTC medications, right? So we're going to be removing it from eternity in the future and upping the thiamine, but it's important in this product with I am in is like however, you're inducing it because thymines used a lot in the processes that converts especially sugars into energy and protecting us against what are called Advanced glycation end products for these.

[00:52:00] [00:52:00] Like one of the debris that happens is we age is sugar is essentially gunked up with proteins and that causes problems in our kidneys Vision Etc and thiamine or benfotiamine help protect us against in fact, if you have liver spots, those are AG, he's in your skin. That's all they are. You know, what else is really good at actually removing a GES and you don't need high doses.

[00:52:25] You don't need the doses. Used in and and sports but beta-alanine. There's some really great research on beta alanine actually helping the body rid itself of a gesi love that interesting citrus. You've got a couple Citrus extracts in here. And and so do we have to worry about and I want to tell you tell you why I'm asking this do we have to worry about any of them causing accumulation of any type of pharmaceutical drugs?

[00:53:00] [00:53:00] No was usually the extract from grapefruit then range that really strongly does that. So what we have is two so one of the core things that happens when we age is our body clock doesn't work particularly. Well, it starts like gradually worsen and there is a in this one sisters except there's a small bioflavonoids called nobility.

[00:53:23] That or the strongest molecules for making our body clock especially in the liver work better. So we like again super pricey ingredient, but we wanted to have us course stack with in return is that makes the body clock work better? The other Citrus extract is really something that concentrates apigenin and apigenin so.

[00:53:46] There's a lot of Buzz over the last say seven eight years of boosting NAD. So all the anti-aging conferences you'll hear that right out. We think that's super important. So there's direct ways to do that. Like [00:54:00] essentially giving the vitamin B3 precursors giving L-tryptophan, but what indirect way is what I think of the Tai Chi way.

[00:54:07] Yeah. Well winning one of the things that happens then we raced down that breaks down the the NAD from so then you can just take regular niacin. Would you what you have it? I just did a show about this. I just actually did a show telling people look if you don't want to spend the the money on knowledge--and and niacin any of these not just just just get more citrus fruit and eat it take regular niacin because it'll break that it would slow down the the enzyme responsible for breaking it down.

[00:54:36] Right. So what happens when we there's this it's called cd38, but as we get older and anything characterized by inflammation cd38 gets up regulated and it literally devours NAD and when that happens, there's not enough one of the main reasons NAD goes down when we age is because that use case is going up, right so out again in and some other things like withania, so I'm actual Ganda are things that [00:55:00] can kind of turn the thermostat down on that a little bit.

[00:55:03] Now if someone starts to take a turnus, how do you recommend they take it first thing in the morning? So what we did in our testing was we had people taken with their first meal of the day whenever that happened to be for some people they just because it was a capsules is the full dose. They divided it between breakfast and lunch.

[00:55:24] Right? But the way I usually take it is quiet first thing in the morning Jim. Did I stop usually at a coffee shop get some work done have a like a small Americano and then eat breakfast right after that and I take a turn as with breakfast. So that's that's how I do it. It's how we generally did it with testing.

[00:55:46] But I've done it on an empty stomach. There's it's really just has to do with your tolerance. The nutrients. The other thing is it's got cocoa extract. It does have some theobromine and mean would be like a [00:56:00] capias weaker cousin. Yeah and maybe like a 5% of the effect of caffeine, but because of that we typically tell people to take it early in the day.

[00:56:11] As opposed to you know, say taking it at dinner time, but it would really have to do with your tolerance. We definitely have people that break the dose between breakfast and dinner. We also just like you mentioned with quality and your you know dialing in a dose of three to four for you. We have people that as and is just to call or 2 hitch and it's a day they found is the right spot for that.

[00:56:33] So what do you notice it's obviously it's really easy. In fact, you actually challenged people on your website nor hacker.com to do a Ted you have a testing protocol before and after they use the product so they can. Their actual mental acuity changes, but how do you assess it Turner's? So we turn this like cellular health is just a much more long-term game.

[00:56:55] So for quality of what we offered anyone that's interested would be a free online [00:57:00] assessment using Cambridge brain Sciences, which is one of the Premier are excellent in the platform. Right and we do that just because we've seen big changes in that and often like the biggest is typically in concentration, but it turned us when we created it.

[00:57:15] We really weren't expecting much of a subjective difference over the course of a day or a week. But over the course of a month when we did our testing the most common things that we got is feedback where increase increase productivity especially like a general theme with people were able to get two more at the end of their day or in the evening and they had been prior to that another one was better workouts at third was about a third of the people so they had better sleep.

[00:57:44] So what ends up happening as our cells are able to work better? We then gradually tend to have better performance in a lot of areas often that we didn't notice. Were particularly problematic right but because because with AIDS these things creep [00:58:00] the changes from year to year or so small that you don't notice it.

[00:58:04] I actually used this analogy when in 2007 I got on HRT after using lots of performance-enhancing drugs. And crashing my endocrine system. I struggled for almost two years and tried to get my testosterone levels back up to normal with HCG and doctors help and all and it didn't work. And so finally how to make the decision.

[00:58:24] Okay. I'm going to have to go on testosterone now for the rest of my life and in two weeks.  I felt so remarkably better being on testosterone therapy the analogy I used on the show. Was it's like if you lived in a warehouse where there's 100 light bulbs and every year just one went out. Yeah by 40 years you don't notice anything.

[00:58:47] But when if they somebody comes in and puts 40 bulbs back in you go. Holy crap. Is this how bright it used to be in here? So yeah, it's it's it's a gradual diminishment. And so chances are this will [00:59:00] make you feel better faster and you'll notice. This is what we we optimistically were hoping people would notice something within a month.

[00:59:09] But what we found in the in our like initial study of it was that for there was a small subset of people that notice something very dramatic within 5 days. So I when I would think of as super responders and that our success criteria, is that over whatever time here we decide so with this it was over three weeks.

[00:59:28] About four out of five people felt they had either good or excellent responses to it and noticed aspects of different areas of how they were showing up in their day. Oh God, I'm sorry. So the and the other thing we did when we then like sliced and diced that group by age. We saw much more dramatic responses in people that were 35 and older than we did in 2234 and that makes sense because there's more bioaccumulation of debris.

[00:59:57] I want to first of all I want to plug the website again. If [01:00:00] neuro hacker.com if you use the code, shr. You get 15% off. They also have some subscription approaches. And you know, I'm on the subscription plan because I don't want to be without this stuff now and I don't want to have to start drinking coffee again.

[01:00:13] I gotta get a year under my belt without drinking coffee. And I know I won't drink it anymore, but they have a nice subscription program as well. But they also have a 100 day money back guarantee. And the reason is as someone who is formulated supplements. There are always non-responders. There are people out there who don't respond to creatine right can't believe it but there are so what they want is they only want people who are happy with the product to keep the product and if it doesn't work for you you get your money back.

[01:00:46] I don't think there's a more righteous way to do business than that my opinion. Thank you, when we haven't touched on we also wrecked like we're one of the I think there are companies that recommend [01:01:00] cycling things. So we haven't touched on it. But with quality our base recommendation is to do qualia whether it's minor Focus.

[01:01:06] For five days are and then take two days off and then every couple months take a week to two weeks to almost D train from it exactly like you would do with lifting weights right when you record that's exactly how we test it out eternity as well. So, you know, there's certainly certain things, you know, insulin thyroid things that if you're on it's important to do every day, right but for whether.

[01:01:30] Fasting or exercise what you would see in the real world is fasting does something and refeeding does something and when you fast and refeed is when you get the big benefits when you exercise in allow enough recovery is when you get the maximum benefits and that would be our premise with dietary supplementation that in a sense.

[01:01:50] A lot of these nutrients are giving us a challenge and the time off is part of their recovery and response to that. And we think it's part of the reason we do see the [01:02:00] reverse tolerance over time with quiet. So one of the things I definitely want to make sure we point out to your audience is that our core recommendation for our products at least is that you cycle them just like you would with a good exercise routine and I'm a huge proponent of evolutionary medicine and Science and we know that abundance and scarcity are valuable to the body, you know, if you if you take fish oil.

[01:02:27] What you shouldn't you should be eating fish three times a week. But if you take fish oil tab capsules every single day the same dose the body goes. Oh, we've got plenty of this that starts to use. It has an energy substrate instead of storing it in in fat cells for use and anti-inflammatory and resolving processes.

[01:02:47] But if you take a bolus dose like you would if you ate fish two or three times a week, yeah, it uses it more efficiently. It doesn't use it for energy use it to repair stuff. Yeah. So what happens when you do something every day [01:03:00] our body super good at adapting. So the best way I would describe it is compensatory mechanisms.

[01:03:05] Kick in. And once those kick in then you have to do more and more the thing to get benefits and eventually you overtrain to it. And so what you would classically see in nutrients nutrients studies is someone starts on something, you know, 48 weeks later. They've been proved they keep you in the study out to six months.

[01:03:24] We were back where they started even though they continue to do it, right? So if you the way to mitigate that it's kind of like the adaptational curve is to do a smaller dose and then. Periodic breaks and when that happens the basically you extend the time before you hit the plateau way way out into the future.

[01:03:45] So I'm one of the like one of the NAD study. So what you classically see with people trying to boost more NAD is just giving the substrate molecules and higher and higher Doses. And when we do that one of the [01:04:00] compensatory mechanisms that kicks in as. So we literally tag methyl groups on to the niacin to eliminate more and when that happened we tax and deplete our methyl donor systems.

[01:04:14] So like I know parts of yet no hacker Collective we're concerned with people doing high amounts of the just a precursor molecules to boost NAD if they're not also doing something to support methylation because it's Crystal Clear in those studies that methylation like say methylated Nikki. My goes through the roof and those approaches interesting very very interesting.

[01:04:37] Tim. Bruce is watching he says that 44. I hear you Carl. I'm in the process of getting all of my hormones checked out and going forward with whatever I need to get on to fire back at you know, it's hard to make that decision, you know. I remember my ex-wife when she found out she could never get pregnant again.

[01:04:54] She cried and I said why we're never going to have any more kids. It's just we'll just the finality of it. And when I [01:05:00] had to make the decision to get on testosterone, I felt the same way. I was like, oh my God like this is like a this is like a the end of an era for me. And so I get it but do it because you'll feel better and your body will be happier that you did.

[01:05:14] The website is neural hacker.com to coupon code is shr. This is great stuff folks you look if you don't want to be sharper, if you don't want to perform better, then don't get it. Don't get it. We'll use the reverse psychology on you. Do not get this but really if you want to perform better this stuff is legit, and I endorse it.

[01:05:34] Holy. Listen, I want to thank you so much. Sorry for the mix-up today God. I got my times a little messed up, but it's been a great interview and we probably will have you back once we get some questions from the audience. Thanks for being here today. Thank you Carl, and we will see everybody tomorrow.

[01:05:52] So Rodriguez will be back tomorrow. He's going to be on the air with me for the blueprint power hour and then Wednesday. [01:06:00] I know we have a really good choice. I think Adele mooses coming on Wednesday to talk about all these new light wavelength therapies. Is there anything to them? But we have great shows all week.

[01:06:09] We will see you then. Thanks for [01:07:00] listening.