[00:00:00] Prepare to experience the strongest radio allowable by law will be revealed. Miss this about Jim where excuses never apply it superhuman radio with your host Carl annoy.  Hey. Hey, welcome back. I'm in pathetic shape my eye hurts so bad today that it's very very distracting and I'm depending. My guest today to carry the ball and he'll have no problem doing that.

[00:00:33] So rhabdo. Has become an almost like goal for some people in the CrossFit Community. There's t-shirts and hoodies that say I got rhabdo. Like I've been to Disney World or you know, and really instead of being like I've been to Disneyworld. They're more similar with hey, I gave myself cancer because rhabdo is not [00:01:00] a goal.

[00:01:00] It's not something you want to happen to you. And in April of this year ifbb Pro Dana Linda Bailey found herself in the hospital as a result of rhabdo and the internet went crazy the searches for the rhabdo literally went up ten thousand percent. And that day and the three days following it and that tells me nobody knows what rhabdo is which is really scary because more and more people find themselves in this situation.

[00:01:36] My guest today is Joe Cannon. How you doing, Joe? Let me open your Michael and your girl moving a little slow today and. The reason I have Joe on the show is because the truth of the matter is that Joe probably knows more about rhabdo than any clinician out there because Joe started talking about [00:02:00] it over 10 years ago and actually wrote the first book.

[00:02:05] On rhabdo and let me give you its name because if you want to know more about it, it's called rhabdo the scary side effect of exercise. You've never heard of but thanks to Dan Allen Bailey a lot more people have heard of it. So let's start. Let's start ten years ago. How did rhabdo find itself in your in your in your front position?

[00:02:27] Yeah it's a great question so let's take a step back my Master's Degree as an exercise science and my undergraduate degree is in chemistry and biology and I've always been a research nerd and one day about a decade or so ago I find myself reading a magazine article about something I've never heard of before Rhabdomyolysis and I was quite literally shocked because I said you know I've got a whole bunch of science.

[00:02:56] Books in my library. I've taken a boatload of science [00:03:00] classes. I have never encountered this phenomenon before and I went and I looked at my library look and pull it all my bio chem books my cell biology books my exercise physics books. My my certification books and I'm certified by nsca as well and it's not anywhere and then I became a dog with a bone and and so that became, you know my question over the next 10 years to tell as many fitness trainers as possible that this phenomena.

[00:03:26] Things I do is I train personal trainers for one of the organization so and it's been my experience that the majority of the fitness trainers not just in America but the whole planet have never heard of Rhabdomyolysis before it's not being talked to them and so I made it one of my missions in life is to try to tell as many people as possible oh we lost the connection hopefully Joel come right back here we go hold on Joe alone for some reason you dropped out so you get you made it your mission in life to tell as many people as possible.

[00:03:54] About this phenomenon and I find this interesting that personal trainers [00:04:00] don't know what it is because they are the ones in a position most likely to put people into rabbit. Unfortunately, I have received a lot of emails over the years from people who have developed rhabdo working one-on-one with personal trainers.

[00:04:17] And unfortunately, I getting more emails these days and I did when I first started talking about it which tells me that the incidence of rhabdo may be on the increase. I can't give you statistics on this because nobody unfortunately is tracking grabbed over the general population, but I can tell from the emails.

[00:04:32] I'm getting I think it's happening more. And again, I'm I felt bad for day never getting rhabdo. I was tagged on Instagram and Facebook and Twitter gee whiz 10 15 times by different people saying look, you know this person got it and you know, and so she is unfortunately then Al she got right now, but she really heighten the awareness of this phenomena, which I'm sure he got it, but I'm.

[00:04:55] And she came out and talked about it because I need all the help I can get telling people [00:05:00] about this but what's on another note? Why is why is it? Like and this is even me Joe. I mean, I'm just a kid from Brooklyn at the end of the day and and even me like when I when I tore my hamstring little I had three connection evolves and vol'jin on my left hamstring.

[00:05:22] There's almost a proudness in it like I hurt myself training. I'm so serious about this that I literally going into some deep dark places that you people won't go because you're pushing. That is the mentality of many in the fitness world today. It's you know, unfortunately no pain no gain, since I'm making a comeback even though we all know that's a myth but I see it a lot.

[00:05:46] Unfortunately every day I go on Instagram. I see hashtag rhabdo and many individuals don't have rhabdo. They're just taking pictures or videos themselves working out and there's your tagging it would hashtag rhabdo, and I'm looking at this shaking my [00:06:00] head and if you only knew. How bad this phenomenon was you wouldn't be doing that and sometimes I even reach out to them.

[00:06:07] I'm like, what are you doing? And again, sometimes you get snide remarks back and then you know the go we're just being funny. There's nothing funny about rhabdo. It's like you said, it's like, oh I got cancer. Well, I hit exactly it's like it's like if you knew that there was a chemical that causes cancer upon contact and there are a lot of.

[00:06:26] And then and then you had a beaker of it of in your hand and you're about to pour it on yourself and you're going hashtag cancer, you know, hashtag F cancer hashtag. I'm not afraid of cancer hashtag. Give me cancer people would think you're an idiot but yet there's some sort of nobility and the idea of pushing yourself so hard that that you could actually develop a life-threatening situation and I want to point that out for a second.

[00:06:50] So let's let's talk about rhabdo the acute phenomenon of rhabdo, right? Somebody goes. The gym and and and there is no [00:07:00] absolute where we can say this will get do these things it will give you rhabdo because there's people out there who will gardening and got rhabdo so there's we're going to talk about that in a second but wait the reality is that rhabdo can kill you spontaneously.

[00:07:13] Unfortunately, yes, there have been instances of people who have died during ferrando complications. Some of them being college football players who have died there have been people in the military who have died. There was unfortunately a police officer last year in Ohio who died from a heart attack resulting from rhabdo.

[00:07:30] So yeah, it does happen. There was a another police officer Cadet who passed away earlier this year from symptoms arising from this phenomenon. So yeah, unfortunately, This does happen and I think a lot of people don't take rather seriously enough they all again. I mentioned heart attack is not going to go people are on to the 'many individual in the impression that rhabdo is only a medical condition affects the kidneys and that's not true.

[00:07:58] That seems to be the condition that every have heard [00:08:00] about it through wrap. No kidney failure. Rhabdo affects your. For goodness sake and not only that but your heart function can be altered again. People have head over to train your brain. Dr. Tulley Otto's. I am going to put all your questions up throughout the interview.

[00:08:13] So please be patient. I see you posting things and I'm going to get to those, you know, you can have a stroke. When you have rhabdo you could have you could have severe ischemic brain damage from rhabdo. Put, you know, people who have rhabdo they all talk about that. They couldn't say their own name.

[00:08:30] They didn't know where they were like rhabdo is rhabdo is like pouring meted up metabolic debris in your bloodstream and it hits every organ in every system because it traveling around getting gunked up. That's a very good analogy. That's exactly what's going on the stuff inside your muscle fibers leaks in your bloodstream.

[00:08:51] And some of this can cause catastrophic problems Downstream. So you are so correct. Now as a result of your early adoption of this [00:09:00] cause you probably received more emails and messages and requests for help about rhabdo then any any clinician any Universities any hospitals they because youyou literally, Hundreds a day from all over the world right I have gotten emails from people literally in the hospital they found me just Googling you know grabbed or whatever they found me somehow they pulled me up on their iPad whatever unfortunately some of them in the hospital had actually told me that the medical professionals in the hospital did not believe they had rev know which I find amazing I think that's getting better now because in that confessional it meant American pressure is actually talking about wrap that and exercise-induced rabbit.

[00:09:41] Specifically somewhere in the impression that you have to be a Navy SEAL or brain or Ranger be to get this condition again. We've met people we talked to people who've got it from lower intense exercises as well. But Summit some in the medical professional may be under the impression you have to go out and do really intense suffering of rhabdo [00:10:00] and that's actually not so but you're right.

[00:10:02] I do get a lot of emails these days a lot of them are coming from Instagram because I'm quite vocal and I like Instagram, so I post a lot of red. They're in so I get a lot of messages there as well as someone Twitter and a little bit of face, but mostly these days is a direct email through my website or or on Instagram itself.

[00:10:18] Now, I want to tell a story that you that you intimated to me. We're not mention any names but some kid message you like in the middle of the night. He went down in his basement at midnight and decided to train until 6 a.m. In the morning and he messaged you when he was like literally thought he was dying.

[00:10:34] He didn't want to call the ambulance now, obviously you probably didn't get that message in real time, but. This this is a bigger phenomenon and problem than many of us realize. I agree I do get those emails many of them are in the middle of the night when most of us are in bed and then I usually check my email ready to clock in the morning or so and that's when I'll see you know it's 2 a.m.

[00:10:56] I'm embarrassed to call 9-1-1 everybody's asleep what [00:11:00] do I do I'm online I'm trying to find out why my muscles are in pain why my earring looks dark colored and they're freaking out and then they find me an e-mail me and you know all I can do is write back you know hours later are you okay and sometimes I hear back from them.

[00:11:15] And sometimes I don't hear back from them. Unfortunately, now, I know that now there is really no way to say these are the things that cause rhabdo and because there's really no interest in doing any kind of meaningful Research into this phenomenon is. Really though there's unfortunately the CDC is not tracking in the general population the only people who appear to be tracking it as the US military they have been working to reduce the incidence of rhabdo over the last several years there there their research finds that.

[00:11:52] The Marines have the highest level followed by believe. It's Army Navy and Air Force and they have been trying to reduce it. [00:12:00] And the Navy in particular. I just saw an article today. I was passed on by a friend of mine who also investigates rhabdo that Navy is trying to deal more with some with Cadets who are exercising intensely.

[00:12:11] There have been unfortunately some some deaths of cadets in the Navy. So, you know, I'm pleased that the military is dealing with this. I wish major. I wish you the fitness industry as a whole would take up this mantle and as a rule, they're generally they're really not for whatever reason. I sometimes I joke that Arab is almost like Fight Club, you know in Fight Club, you know, I'm not in the movie.

[00:12:34] You got you got one rule one rule of Fight Club. You don't talk about Fight Club. When it comes to rhabdo you don't talk about rhabdo. And so they're really not addressing it as much as I would hope although it is getting better. Some individuals are actually talking about it now. So I'm glad to have all the help I can get because I said it for over 10 years is basically just been me and maybe a couple other people who have been talking about this.

[00:12:59] Yeah. Yeah [00:13:00] it is it is it is something that I think is occurring more in the population and before and I also think this may be a woman's issue that nobody is talking about met most of the people who reach out to me. These days are women. It's not men and then so what is the what is the reason why more women are getting it may be than I'm gonna go on a limb here and say that more women are training today.

[00:13:25] They are they are I'm a happily. They may be a little delay in my microphone during the commercial break. I'm going to disconnect and reconnect because my camera just did something weird, but more women are training today, right? Okay. They are and it could have no doubt of that and we're doing our training and they're lifting weights which is wonderful but I think more and more likely more women are likely to reach out for help then maybe men are perhaps and maybe another reason why I'm seeing it more women it just could be their men they suffer in silence and bite the bullet and more women are like hey what the heck's going on here so that's that's an issue is well so but yeah [00:14:00] women seem to be the people who reached out to me these days the most so since there is really no meaningful research out there that we can point.

[00:14:06] To that will give us a road map for how to avoid rhabdo. I'm going to make a series of assumptions and suppositions to you and at throughout the show today because I would really like to come away from the show with maybe just a little more of a bull's-eye of where we can stay to try to be rhabdo free.

[00:14:27] Great. Okay, great. And I think I said I think it's a great idea. There is no if I take one more step I got rhabdo if I step back, I don't ever I go. Unfortunately there isn't that line of demarcation, which I wish there was that there really isn't is different for different people. Some people can go out and be a ranger or steel or whatever it'll ever get it and then other people can walk into some gym.

[00:14:47] For the end of work out on First and get it which is very odd. So, you know when it comes to rhabdo and do you have it do you not a lot of the people on the internet when I go and [00:15:00] I look at what the other people say? Everybody seems to put the emphasis on one one key phenomenon and that is the dark colored urine symptom and they'll say well if your urine is dark-colored you got rhabdo and why I say yeah, you probably do I'd also give them a little push back and say well.

[00:15:17] To go get a lot of people don't have that symptom so you can have rhabdo and not have dark colored urine. So my litmus test is if you come to me and you think you have robbed all I ask you a couple questions number one. I'll ask you did you recently like today or yesterday doing exercise or activity that you have never done before or not done in a long time and if the answer is yes, I'll then ask you are you in pain now when you're not moving and here's what he's I say this delight muscle soreness, which everybody is experience when you work out too much delayed muscle soreness doesn't hurt until you move you move you push on the muscle.

[00:15:56] That's when you feel pain. That doesn't hurt until you move. [00:16:00] Rhabdo hurts when you're not move or the and it hurts like the Dickens people have told me rhabdo pain is worse than giving birth. Some people have told me they wanted to kill themselves. The pain was so bad and so is a really horrific pain, but it hurts when you're not moving and it progresses as the hours tick by rhabdo can remember pain can occur very quickly after you stop exercising.

[00:16:22] Some people told me minutes after stopping exercises exercising is start that they start to fill. And as the hours tick by the pain gets worse worse worse. So that's a little that's also a little different than delayed muscle soreness, which you usually kicks in somewhere between 24 and 48 or so hours after the activity.

[00:16:40] So a quick acting pain the pain happens when you're not moving that's going to be a two questions that I would ask you if I suspect you have rhabdo. Now that's not always full for a video because I've met people who don't have the classic rhabdo symptoms. So again makes it even harder to figure that's why when.

[00:16:57] And when I discuss this I usually say you know we don't [00:17:00] go on we don't go on dr. Google looking for answers we don't even ask Joe with what he thinks is the answer that the best example best thing to do is go to the hospital and they'll figure out about 10-15 minutes with a blood tests urine tests stuff like that so one of the things that you and I talked about offline was I asked you I said is there any research out there on hard training.

[00:17:22] Athletes may be a body builders and powerlifters or crossfitters who are completely asymptomatic. So they're not peeing dark. They don't really have acute muscle pain. They just have Dom's and and have we looked at their creatine kinase and creatinine levels and said wow, this guy is at 15,000 and he doesn't have rhabdo.

[00:17:49] Do we know that those High numbers and CPK are actually indicators of rhabdomyolysis. So generally creatine [00:18:00] kinase is an enzyme that goes up with muscle damage and as a rule not it's a hard and fast rule not perfect. Some doctors will make the call. You got rhabdo. If your creatine kinase level is anywhere from five to seven to ten times higher than normal.

[00:18:12] And now what's the high-end of normalcy so we can establish levels of creatine kinase going to be about 1 200 or so, but these are this isn't the general population. It doesn't move. Yeah general population were you actually is but if you're exercising intensely you're doing like, you know, boot camp stuff like that you're creating is I will make all five six seven hundred maybe a thousand and again for some individuals.

[00:18:33] They may be asymptomatic other individuals. They'll get they'll get the call and rhabdo when they may be at 12,000. I have my I have encountered people in the past. They've been at 80,000 a hundred thousand hundred twenty thousand creating kind of settle the issue creating kindness levels is if you don't go to the hospital fast enough.

[00:18:52] That that test may not be may not be accurate because crazy kinase starts to go back down after a day or two and so I met people [00:19:00] who said I went to the hospital two days later my creatine kinase was normal kind of expect that since you waited too long. So that's you know, but it's where it's I think it's a Paramount importance to go to go to the hospital as quickly as they possibly can and they kinds so doctors are measure the creatine kind of self.

[00:19:15] Don't also measure the amount of myoglobin in the urine myoglobin is as I sometimes called class muscle hemoglobin is hemoglobin in the muscle and it's toxic to your kidneys in high concentrations. And this is the reason why your kidney sometimes stop working when you have rabbit some individuals may have to go on dialysis.

[00:19:33] They will save their kidneys. Um now when as one thing I like to talk about with my discussion from you know, myoglobin is, you know, your year and doesn't always have to change color, you know, and but they will be able to detect for that in a blood and urine tests. Even if you're a didn't change color, but.

[00:19:49] You know for the people who do take rhabdo as a badge of honor sometimes I'll throw out this statistic that they're probably not aware of and [00:20:00] that's if your year and has changed color if your urine is looking like Coca-Cola iced tea or anything like that. You've lost at least three and a half ounces of muscle.

[00:20:11] It takes at least 300 grams or three and a half ounces of protein breakdown to change the. Of your yeah, that's a significant amount of muscle loss. It's a good it's gonna melt it really and especially if you're if you're a bodybuilder and you're trying to make gains and you're like I train harder and harder and I'm getting smaller and smaller.

[00:20:30] It could be this. It's a possibility. It could be that a keeping could be overtraining syndrome forever for another note another topic for another discussion, but you're right and I think I like talking about that because it is really really people were yeah, because yeah because they don't care they don't care about damaging the kidneys, but if they lose a muscle like, oh, wait a minute I got to stop doing that.

[00:20:49] Exactly. What I think is really really good thing for them keeping the back of your mind doctor. Dr. Jorde truly Otto says does arachidonic acid. I'm assuming [00:21:00] assuming that's his acronym here does arachidonic acid promote Rhabdomyolysis through muscle inflammation any thoughts on that? So arachidonic acid is involved in the synthesis of prostaglandins like for boxing and process cycle and it plays a role in our blood clotting and also as well as many other things prostaglandins are like hormone-like substances I've not seen any definitive data on arachidonic acid and development of rhabdo so I could have a state that either way I'd have to jump on you know Medline or something like that and start looking at the evidence it's possible rhabdo you know even though we're talking creatine.

[00:21:36] Myoglobin stuff like that rather was much more complicated than just a couple of things. So I would not doubt that there would be elevations arachidonic acid in and there is inflammation. There's a there's a there's generation of free radicals that play a role in this as well. So, you know, so I wouldn't I wouldn't go this count it.

[00:21:56] I just haven't seen the evidence is possible though. He also he [00:22:00] also says cocaine leads to rhabdo now. I don't know that that's true. Have you heard? Yeah, so was I know I know I know cocaine leads to wallet though, which is the breakdown of the money in your wallet. I know that

[00:22:15] really does that today. We're talking about exercise-induced rhabdo turns out there's three broad categories of rhabdo. There's traumatic rhabdo. If you fell off a ladder you're in a car crash for instance your you were bedridden in a nursing home. You can get rhabdo from that. Well, so this traumatic there's non-traumatic rhabdo, which would be drug-induced cocaine overdose other medications are you know, for instance a lot of people watching this are probably seeing the TV commercials for cholesterol lowering drugs.

[00:22:49] And if you watch the cholesterol-lowering drug commercials really really carefully you'll hear them say the general warning it experience any pain witness your doctor's this could be a sign of a more serious disorder. That's rabbit. Right, [00:23:00] so there is a drug-induced rhabdo. So yeah, I have seen reports of overdoses from from drugs being attributed for rhabdo accompanying drug overdoses.

[00:23:11] Okay. So let's stay with that just for a minute longer so. We also know that things like NSAIDs and very powerful anti-inflammatory drugs when used and in concert with training can actually promote the occurrence of rhabdo and the entire country and possibly the world is in love with things like tumeric and Kirkham in and ginger because these are powerful anti-inflammatory cycle cyclooxygenase Inhibitors and.

[00:23:43] In large enough doses Joe I found out they can work as as well as things like diclofenac. So so these are the and people are pounding this stuff down fish oil and tumeric three times a day. I wonder if that could lead to [00:24:00] promoting rhabdo. So I've not seen any data on the supplements those particular cell phone is being associated with rhabdo.

[00:24:07] Usually if I hear supplements Arab know I usually associate with stimulants and so but turmeric official. I haven't seen it supplements are the other thing and I tend to pay a lot of attention to out there and I had to say anything on tumeric, but you know, you said a lot of in the last sentence and you're talking about the incense and rhabdo and I would say ESO.

[00:24:30] Think back to the doctor's question arachidonic acid arachidonic acid is involved in the production. These things called prostaglandins prostaglandins do an awful lot of things in the body. They can help our blood clot and not clot. They're involved in the pain sensation. They're also involved in muscle repair.

[00:24:47] And so, you know for athletes involved in intense training, you know, I would say, you know, if you're going to be taking a lot of these no ask for an Advil the proximate excetera realize that they do inhibit prostaglandin synthesis and could this [00:25:00] in. Your muscle repair your Muscle Recovery there is some talk that this may happen Okay so that's one thing to think about the other thing I think about it as you as you touched on is that these entities nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs will reduce kidney function this is an issue because in the person who.

[00:25:18] Mmm there are already kidney compromise from rhabdo they think they have delayed muscle soreness and so they reach for aspirin and they start down a whole bunch of aspirin Advil Etc and they destroy their kidneys and then they need a new kidney I have spoken to nurses this is never going to get written up in medical journals probably but I've spoken nurses who've told me of young athletic people who are now getting kidney who are waiting list for a new kidney and that's the reason why they had rhabdo they overdose on the on the inside.

[00:25:48] Their kidneys failed and now they're on a waiting list how bad how fast everything. I know it's horrific. You don't need a, you know as a non sequitur, but but tangential at the same time [00:26:00] the human race pushes. The envelope and every every area that we occupy and and and what the end point is that we pushed to his complete Extinction like once we start killing ourselves, then we back up a little bit the no matter what it is.

[00:26:17] No matter what it is and this is another example because. What started out as a way to help people age better and improve health span and and life span is now going to the point where it's actually shortening lives and hurting people because here we are again pushing it to the end point of Extinction.

[00:26:37] Yeah, yeah anything taken to an extreme condition can be detrimental to our health if not our lives. So you're absolutely correct. And and that's just something psychological about us. We as you like to say, you know, we take things too extreme. I mean, you got people jumping out of spaceships and parachuting the earth now, which is totally crazy.

[00:26:58] So yeah, I think that's just [00:27:00] something that the sum of some people are hard-wired for that and I don't understand it. But then again sometimes you know looking back. You know we you know we talked on the phone you said your injuries I've had my injuries and so we you know we like to think we're bulletproof but you know we're really not right so we are trying to prove to ourselves that where we have infinite life available yeah do all the right things I want to I want to cover one other topic before we take this break yeah so clearly one would think the highest population.

[00:27:31] That would have the biggest occurrence of Rhabdomyolysis would be bodybuilders. These are guys and gals. Who literally go in? I mean when you look at some even back in the day guys like Tom Platz, you know, Michael heard Michael Hearn does his birthday squats with 405. I think he just turned 45 and 47.

[00:27:51] He did 47 squats when 405 and I'm like Mike how much like what are you really gonna do 50 when you turn 50 and we going to lighten up [00:28:00] the wait a little bitter. But so these are the people that we should see in the hospital all the time. Now, I'm not I'm just giving Mike O'Hearn as an example.

[00:28:09] Somebody who pushes their. That's it. But when it comes to Pro bodybuilders, we also know that Pro bodybuilders use a lot of different drugs in order to build the kind of mass and ripped physique that they do. Is it possible that we are misguided that these drugs are not bad but actually good if you're somebody who's going to push yourself like that.

[00:28:30] There's a lot of speculation that Rick Froning was using drugs back in the day and he's like a super crossfitter. He's like Superman CrossFit and he never had any of these problems. Yeah, yeah. Yes, you really big question. I don't know if there's any evidence and either way it's possible some medications and drugs illegal non-legal May reduce risk rather, but they may also increase the risk of other things, you know cancer for instance if you're looking to steroids or whatever, but I can't speak to that either way because I'm not say any research on body butters.

[00:28:59] I [00:29:00] would have loved to have seen a maybe a 20 year study of bodybuilders the incidence of rhabdo. We're probably never ever going to see that investigation. Billy most of what we know about rhabdo comes from people who were wise enough going to the hospital and get checked out by a doctor and the doctors then writing it up and getting it published in a peer-reviewed journal or something like don't loan those lines yeah I don't know it's possible it's hard to say either way so let's do this let's take a break.

[00:29:29] And when we come back, I want to start to connect the dots of at least maybe we can come up with a blueprint for some of the things that may or may not be implicated in the occurrence of rhabdo. How's that sound outstanding plug your website real quick. What's on the screen, but plug it? Yes other two websites, I've got my personal website, which is Joe - Joe - Cannon.com and that's where I write mostly about rhabdo.

[00:29:53] I actually interview people who have rhabdo as well because I think if their opinions and then my other website is supplement [00:30:00] Clarity.com. That's why I write about dietary supplements. I do big reviews on what works what doesn't work side effects Etc. And you've been doing that the supplement Clarity then it's an old website.

[00:30:09] There's actually a it's actually fairly new website that that is another story for another day. But I did investigating supplement since the 90s. Yeah, so I've been writing about supplements since the 90s write a book on supplements for she needs to be updated. But yeah, yeah, I supplements.

[00:30:25] Usually where I spend most of my time investigates these days supplements and rhabdo and we're going to talk about that when we come back going to talk about supplements and wrap them we come back stay tuned. We'll be right back with more. Welcome back to bring my wife back. I was texting with my son he his radiator exploded he such a good kid I love my son so much I hate you know it's really funny I think about my son all the time and he lives out in San Diego he works so hard.

[00:30:55] And he said his radiator exploded in the Volvo dealership wants $1,100. I [00:31:00] said see kids don't know about salvage yards show you and I know about salvage yard, right, you know, there's a lot of things that don't get a lot of wear and tear on a car and they want your dealership want to charge you ten thousand dollars seven you go to a salvage yard with a with a wrench you pull it yourself at $60 and then you give it to the guy say he put it in how much is that or 250 to put it in and instead and you dodging $1,100 bullets.

[00:31:21] I was just in case as succinctly as possible. Trying to teach him about what a salvage yard was. So is the top is on a first-name basis with every junkyard dealer in Philadelphia. There's this don't there's no shame and picking up a used part. That's perfectly good. You know, I agree. It's basically like a refurbished.

[00:31:39] I'm sorry. I can't read all this so clearly Aiden race as football players as well. And you did say that especially during the preseason two-a-days. Yes, and which leads me to let's see this year Hey, Joe can and this is fantastic always. We hear you speaking about this important topic. Yes, it [00:32:00] is.

[00:32:00] Yeah, that's Alexis. I know her. Hey Alexis, how you doing? I would point out that Alexis has had wrapped up several times and what he is a terrific person. This is this is this is really good Alexis. Thank you for helping me with a Segway because my eye is killing me. I can't think straight right now.

[00:32:18] So yeah, I was having rhabdo once appeared. To promote the reoccurrence. There is statistically there is a greater risk in some individuals are getting rhabdo. Again. It does appear to be the case. I think you could also make the argument that once you had rhabdo. You may be scared to death ever push the envelope again, and so you may be a lesser lesser likelihood to get it but there does appear to be some genetics to rhabdo most common genetic abnormality that people bring about talk about these days has this sickle cell anemia trade you are heterozygous for sickle.

[00:32:54] You have one gene not to jeans. So you'll never get sickle cell itself, [00:33:00] but you appear to have a greater incidence of rhabdo when you have that that one gene. So some colleges may actually even do genetic testing on their athletes for sickle cell. So there's probably some other phenomenons out there some genetic issues that may increase someone's risk.

[00:33:16] What about what a vital what about fallacy Mia and coolies and of Cooley's anemia a lot of us Italians we get that. Is that similar to Sickle Cell life? You know, I had never I'm not seeing anything on it is possible again. We did we put a lot of emphasis on Sickle Cell but there's other things out there could increase the risk.

[00:33:33] There is a deficiency. I believe in an enzyme called phosphofructokinase pfk which can also increase the risk. There's other ones out there as well. The car was syndrome. So yeah, there are some people do have genetic predispositions to increase rhabdo and I've seen that in the literature. I've seen people who got rhabdo doing virtually nothing and they actually had a genetic predisposition which leads.

[00:33:53] Into this discussion when you do have rhabdo one of the first things they do is they administer [00:34:00] sodium bicarbonate intravenously this protects the kidneys and seems to also help the kidneys process the myoglobin and the creatinine and get it out of the body. So can we say that maybe people should be using sodium bicarbonate if they're training excessively?

[00:34:22] So when it comes to exercise our people jump on the sodium bicarbonate bandwagon to reduce lactic acid levels during exercise much the same way as some people may be gravitating towards Fatality and supplements for the same thing. You know, there's some evidence that sodium bicarbonate is going to help the kidneys.

[00:34:39] No doubt about it. I we were talking I was talking to the story about my buddies brother who is voted Katie failure. Is Doctor recommending take a little bit. Sodium bicarbonate everyday to help keep his kidneys going and going further. Yeah, there's so much good research that shows that just 600 milligrams of sodium bicarbonate to three times a day can halt the [00:35:00] progression of kidney disease.

[00:35:01] I had also seen some evidence that in the in in really bad kidney problems. It doesn't seem to work as well. So, you know, you can tell people to you know, take some sodium bicarbonate. I would say don't do too much of it because you know, it's going to give you diarrhea that you're not used to it because you know, it can have it effectively some GI problems as well.

[00:35:22] So but you know for I think generally you can make an argument for eating a more alkaline based diet more fruits more vegetables. Less hardcore, you know animal protein because that you're going to get a lot of nutrients not just you know, alkalinizing things but, you know more potassium which a lot of people are different Hues that and in fact and in fact and and Kim Marie Ranieri, I actually asked him that question off the air we will get to this about iron overload the moment, but but I know people who thought they had.

[00:35:57] Rhabdo who actually [00:36:00] hypokalemia back they had excessively low levels of potassium. They became disoriented the urine change color, but there was no signs of high creatine kinase levels. And so what do you think about that? Yeah, they said that that it is possible for different symptoms and syndromes to have criss-crossing, you know outcomes people do know they think it's this was really something else and that's why I was a it's always a good idea to go check out by some Doctor Who can run all the pot all the tests.

[00:36:31] They necessary they need to do so you can rule out is that this is that because we tend to again we look on just you know, we look at just kidney function. It could be a lot of things can affect kidney function. It can may not just be ground. Oh, it could be it could be doing. You know under hydration over hydrating a lot of things.

[00:36:47] In fact again, NSAIDs can affect kidney functions. Well, so again our bodies are complicated as I sometimes say to people, you know, we have about a hundred thousand miles of blood vessels are body. We've got 20,000 [00:37:00] genes DNA stretch stretch that we are not nothing is just one thing. Nothing is bad thing.

[00:37:05] I know, you know. Fourteen years ago when I first started doing this show. I was sure that this was the cause of that and that was the cause of that and after doing almost 3,000 interviews now, I realize that nothing is just one thing. So give up on that silver bullet. I want to I want to put up a Lexus Fest goes comment here because this leads into something else you and I talked about she says I do have a genetic disorder and predisposition that increases my risk I don't take supplements however I have to drink a gallon of water a day because I have severe kidney damage and it just it'll cystitis nutrition is important imperative for me as well so I want to I want to raise a couple points here.

[00:37:47] number one. I had a nephrologist on this show last year, too. Understand when are the kidneys working the hardest and here's what I came away with [00:38:00] and this is completely the opposite of what we're being told right? So so we're being told, you know, if you have kidney problems, you have to reduce your sodium intake after reduce your potassium and taken to reduce your magnesium intake to give the kidneys less work to do when exactly the opposite is true the kidneys work harder when they're trying to blockade minerals to keep in.

[00:38:23] Blood and let water out when you are getting adequate amounts of sodium potassium magnesium phosphorus different types of bicarbonates in your. Then your kidneys actually like a like a wastegate. They just open up there. Like we don't have to worry about catching that molecule and get that my we just let everything go because we got so much behind us.

[00:38:43] So first of all this idea that in order to preserve your kidneys, you shouldn't take magnesium and potassium something that's really actually causing more problems. And we see this to go back to the study that we talked about a second ago. So the sodium bicarbonate and Progressive kidney [00:39:00] disease actually worked just as well.

[00:39:03] As sodium chloride which is table salt, which makes you think well, maybe it's the sodium because everybody's on a low sodium diet today. So let's let's leave that there for a second. Yeah minerals. Our osmotically attracted to water that's why when you take too much sodium bicarbonate you end up with the diarrhea because all the water moves into the intestines to get with it because it actually pulls water to it.

[00:39:27] So if you're drinking a gallon of water a day and it doesn't have minerals in it and and trust me just because it says Deer Park Spring Water you may think it has minerals, but I found out the hard way that they get all the minerals out. So it's actually leaching minerals out of your body. You may have to supplement.

[00:39:45] Minerals if you're drinking a gallon of water a day, you think that's a reckless idea? So you're right. I'm always skeptical about on water because I'm not seeing any good proof that they more and then more than just tap water. And and [00:40:00] so, you know, I I like getting the minerals where I can from, you know, fruits and veggies.

[00:40:04] I usually start my day with Autumn. Yeah people make fun of me. I throw line the beans in my smoothies in the morning. I again, it says me but I can choke on anything if I cover it in chocolate protein powder ha ha ha. In their pumpkin seeds. I've got a minerals that way but you know, the minerals are important because you know another name for the more sexy name for minerals are electrolytes and we are at the end of the day electrically driven beings is the electric potential signal is a keep our muscles working of our hard-working you my brain working keep everything working.

[00:40:38] And so if we're diluting our body and not getting enough say we're on a low sodium diet for instance. We're not going to get. Maybe we're not getting enough for whatever reason if we are diluting the body. We are potentially increasing the risk of even another phenomenon called hyponatremia. Which is water intoxication and that actually brings us back to rhabdo because one of the [00:41:00] online recipe is that I see over and over again for rhabdo is you got to drink a lot of water and they say and I see it constantly and it just bugs me because there again they're looking at the bottom left-hand Corner the big picture when people say if you got rhabdo drink a lot of water, they're only thinking about keeping the kidneys flushed.

[00:41:17] They're not thinking about the liver problems the heart problems any other issues. So here's my issue with drinking lots of water just. By your side biting the bullet and drinking water. You could drink so much water. You could go into hyponatremia, which can be just as serious. Don't remember it.

[00:41:31] Don't you remember that that talk those shock jocks in California. They were giving away a fire station and they had a drink a gallon of water and the woman came in she drank a gallon of water so fast and she walked out in the hall. She was so excited. She had heart attack. I shall watch has stopped she had hypernatremia.

[00:41:47] And so so so so that's another really important thing and Alexis follow me because I'm. Introducing I know this sounds like a complete pimp job, but it isn't I'm going to be introducing a really cool mineral blend that's [00:42:00] designed around the 600 year old spring that we discovered in Ireland when we were there last year and this stuff is amazing.

[00:42:06] But anyway, she says minerals I do take in. But major supplements lots and lots of fruits veggies good good. So she's getting it covered. So the other thing I want to bring in to this discussion is something that I fell in love with in 2010 and I've been banging this drum ever since and Kim Marie Ranieri knows it and that is iron overload.

[00:42:28] I predict that most people in the United States today because of. Fortification with things like vitamin C and real vitamin A and they're the abundance of iron and everything today are actually absorbing. I made a statement in 2010 when I did the show with dr. Michael Smith from Life Extension Foundation that there's a good chance that the iron you absorbed from a hamburger that you ate when you were 12 years old is still in your body.

[00:42:57] And I stand by that the body does not rid [00:43:00] itself of iron easily. And we have we have a perfect storm today for iron accumulation. And iron is it destroys the cell. It's like Imagine A Shard of iron A Shard of rust in every single cell in your body. It increases insulin resistance. It increases blood pressure.

[00:43:17] It increases demyelination of the nervous system. It causes all sorts of havoc in the body. I wonder if there's a link between people. Who have high iron levels and the occurrence of rhabdomyolysis? It's possible. It is definitely possible and again, not seeing anything definitive on it if people with high iron levels or hemochromatosis have a greater incidence of rhabdo overall are I could see that either way I would agree that high iron levels, especially in us men is not a good thing.

[00:43:52] It actually the analogy that I always remembered from years ago. Was it actually gunpowder in our bodies? It just didn't [00:44:00] go off and and hemochromatosis. There is a shoe it is I believe the number one genetic abnormality in America affects approximately 2% of the population. I have an aunt who unfortunately died many years ago of from hemochromatosis or organs died.

[00:44:17] And that's something it can happen. And I remember years ago. We went over to talk about vitamin C a little while ago. I went to see will increase our absorption of iron dramatically. I remember many years ago getting a blood test. And the doctor is saying Joe you're high. You're high levels of iron your high normal, and I remember thinking why am I hiring role?

[00:44:37] And I remember I was taking I don't know five hundred thousand milligrams of Vitamin C back then I got some vitamin C came back a month or two later. Got the blood test. My iron levels drop right back Buddy, Buddy Buddy, Joe McGill. Here's the problem. Here's the problem with that that statement is is accurate, but it's wrong in this sense.

[00:44:55] So doctors look at ferritin. For the presence of iron because [00:45:00] ferritin is a protein at The Chaperone protein that designed to carry iron until it gets into tissue then it releases it ferritin levels will spontaneously rise in vitamin C it without additional iron so that's not a good indicator of iron but unfortunately that's the the medical Orthodox uses if they really wanted to know if your iron was high they check ferritin they check something called Ti BC which is actually the direct measurement of iron in your blood.

[00:45:26] And then they checks a ceruloplasmin and when they look at all three of those they can go your ferritin is high but your iron is not and you go. Yeah, I take a gram of vitamin C and okay keep doing it. Don't worry about it. So the reality is you may not have had high iron at that time. Yes had high ferritin because the fact that I just went down that fast tells me it was entirely.

[00:45:46] Yeah, we'll ever know it was again. It was many many years ago and and I never gave any thought too until when my aunt had passed away and then I wondered, you know, do I have a predilection to hemochromatosis? I don't know. I've never gotten [00:46:00] test for it, but I don't I don't take Vitamin C supplements for say I get them from food or some multivitamins some like that.

[00:46:05] I'll get it that way. But normally, you know my day I'll throw an orange lemon, you know, whatever in there was some you know spinach whatever I'll get the vitamin C that way so just because it's over. That my mind. Yeah. No, absolutely. So when you look from the 30,000 foot View at what you've learned over the past decade are there are there any things you can say with any kind of gravity that you know these things seem to show up all the time when someone.

[00:46:35] Rhabdo, the exercise-induced rhabdo. Yeah. Yeah absolutely nine out of ten times is my experience that people get rhabdo when they do something that they have never done before or have done not done in a long time. For instance. You take six months off you go back to the gym six months later and you go back to your original training Regiment of whatever it is, you know ten sets of arms or whatever, you know, and that's that's not what you should [00:47:00] do.

[00:47:00] So you can here you see it takes three or six months off your kind of close to a beginner again. So useless for us. RAB no occurs when you do a lot of stuff you're not used to so when p and again many times it occurs during say they're very first training session. Unfortunately, I hate to say this with a personal trainer and you can.

[00:47:19] I did a video a while ago on my reasons why I think rhabdo is increasing and fitness centers. And another one is lack of Education weeks for the exception of me and maybe a couple other people. Nobody's really talking about rhabdo in the Fitness World. You know, Alexis knows she's been in my class every class.

[00:47:36] I come every time it lasts I teach I work rabbit one of the conversation and I try to beat it to death but not many people are doing that. So lack of education is the biggest reason why rhabdo is occurring in fitness centers, but also and again one of the dirt. Secrets I like to call it out because no one else is one of their little secrets and fitness centers these days is you join a gym.

[00:47:56] They want to get you on the as I call it the personal trainer crackpot, right? [00:48:00] You are much more valuable member if you're coming back month after month after month paying for personal training. So what sometimes the managers of these gyms do is they tell a personal trainer when you get a new client beat the crap out of them make them as sore as you possibly can on purpose.

[00:48:15] So they'll think they're out of shape and we're looking to hire personal trainer. That's a horrible. To do real and I have been told multiple times over the years. This is what's going on in some fitness center at all of them. But some of them it is and again, you've got a manager who know that rhabdo.

[00:48:30] You got a trainer who don't know about rhabdo and then you combine it with the fact that the average personal training session agenda is only 30 minutes long you squeeze as much intensity and with 30 may appear as you possibly can that's when you're going to get rapido rapido occurs, when you do a lot of stuff you're not used to doing it happens very quickly.

[00:48:46] So when I teach personal trainers, Especially the novice you've never done this before. I usually come out I say listen, you know the average person who hires a personal trainer is going to be a woman over 40 who's a beginner. She don't know the demonstrate a barbell or a dumbbell [00:49:00] there should be because of that should be no armed a no leg day no chest and back day and beginners.

[00:49:04] It's much intensity focus on one muscle when muscle or a couple muscle groups. So that that that's another reason why I think revenue is incurring. So if in the service but that's something that has a that is popped up over the last several years. You know, it surprised me when I first heard about it because nowhere have I ever worked where people told me make them so on purpose but that's terrible how and Helen Cosgrove and I guess go about 15 of 15 probably about 10 years ago, and we called it when personal trainers attack.

[00:49:37] Like the you know when animals attack on on the Discovery because I know more people that were hurt by their personal trainers I've heard horrible stories about torn labrum xand and dislocated shoulders and you know because the personal trainers just pushing them to do stuff that they shouldn't be doing it's just crazy stuff.

[00:49:54] I agree and they think because they like to work out that they would make a good personal trainer. [00:50:00] There's more to personal training than no one had a Swire doing work at it. Whatever you got to know Anatomy physiology exercise science program design Etc. And some of them don't even know I got an email from a guy at last year in Florida again got robbed.

[00:50:14] Spend a weekend in the hospital because it and he says to me says I litter found that everybody in the gym. It was a personal trainer. We just a tough guy wearing polar ships. None of them were certified. Apparently, he's telling me again your remote you're well-known places. Everybody is going to have some certification.

[00:50:33] That's great. But it's some places. They may not have anything which is crazy sir, but certification or not. Odds are they don't know about Rambo. So when I when I when I when people come to me and they say well I got a free personal training session a gym. How do I pick a personal trainer? Well, number one, you could ask them do they know about rhabdo odds are him don't they say no walk away go find some.

[00:50:53] Yeah. Hey anybody here know about rhabdo. Y'all want to work with that guy. We're gonna take our last commercial break when we come back. We have some more questions one another [00:51:00] one from Alexis about MTHFR, which is all popular now hormone Optimum. What did I do? Sorry, I hit the wrong button. I'm telling you this one.

[00:51:09] I think is really starting to get boring. Stay tuned. We'll be right back. Welcome back.  My Graphics up. Okay. So Alexis asked the question about em. Th FR which is all the rage today. It's a methylation issue where people can absorb their folate and cause lots of problems any link to MTHFR any of those types of methylation.

[00:51:39] You know I just did one during the great I just jumped on Medline and tried to find some some research on and I didn't say anything particular sold some references to rhabdo and in thr in the same article but I don't have time to actually delve into it too much again it's involved in the absorption of folic acid.

[00:51:59] Folic [00:52:00] acid is involved in the production of red blood cells and we know that people with the sickle cell trait maybe have an elevated risk of rhabdo and sickle cell trait involves the blood red blood cells. So it's possible. There's a connection it does it makes sense. So I take a step back at 30,000 mile view.

[00:52:17] I just haven't seen anything Alexis may have if she may have seen it something like this, but I didn't see any any data correlating MTHFR to the incidence of rhabdo. That's actually a pretty interesting thought experiment. I'm not sure. You know, I'm really I keep coming back to this. I'm really interested why we don't hear about bodybuilders getting rhabdo professional bodybuilders because if anybody should be getting robbed.

[00:52:43] Oh, it's them. I agree. So Alexis, this is a kind of a tangential because we're talking about choosing personal trainers, but she says ask your personal trainer who certified them. You know youyou are with the ncsc right? You certified by ncsc and a couple of a [00:53:00] groups is where Nyan Nyan certified by nsca.

[00:53:03] And actually I and you don't so you actually have to sit for that test, right you actually show up and sit for that. You do it's better if they changed it since when I took it but it was cscs assert professor at the initial specialist was for our 400 question test with the pride. There was a proctor in the room you had a certain amount of time to do it instead because without a lot of these groups now they let you take the test at home.

[00:53:28] They don't know if you got a book open and how long it take to look something up. Yeah there I think there are some of them actually have software you have installed on your computer to make sure you're not cheating in jail and stuff like that but yeah it is getting better but you know as Alexis pointed out you know you ask them ask a personal trainer who the certified by and they said the letters that you you know and it's the ACs CSF and NASA whatever those letters mean nothing to the general public and so when people say to me you know it sounds like Alexis the same way and people said to me you know who is certified by don't [00:54:00] accept those letters.

[00:54:01] Ask them what the letters stand for if you can tell you in one second what that is. Yeah, right because I don't know what they mean. I don't know 10 people. And again, if the trainer only knows the letters then that may mean the deficiency in other areas. I I've gotten emails to people over the years.

[00:54:23] How dare you ask that question. How do I not? You know, it's a it's a good question to ask is if you can tell me what that with the organization's letters stand for what else don't you know, you know so II, you know, I know hardcore when it comes to that because that's my that's usually - sounds like it's Lexus is also its.

[00:54:43] One question let necessar personal trainers any any anybody coming out with a urine yeah anyone coming out with a urine strip test that maybe we could test for any of the metabolites that indicate rhabdo because it's becoming so popular today I see a real [00:55:00] business opportunity. You know, it's a very interesting question as I haven't seen any but I you know that maybe something we should talk about this.

[00:55:12] Let's see. When I do this. I know II have some epidemiologist that I work with that work in labs and maybe there's a way to come out with a reagent that the strip is paved in and they urinate on it. If it turns blue you're in trouble if it's pink your okay, you know something like that. Um, yeah kind of like a pregnancy test.

[00:55:29] I like that idea. I've never thought of before you burn out, but well, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Alexis says that somebody beat us to it already. She's I have a strip to pee on that will give me some info. I'd love Alexis. Would you please reach out to Joe and let him know what it does show what metabolites it does show.

[00:55:48] I'd love to know more about that makes up here. She oh, dr. Terry. Her hymen Patterson at Temple handled as interesting [00:56:00] okay because the yeah this is something every gym should have right next to the defibrillator you think it's somebody starts presenting you know I'm dreary my muscles are killing me it's like okay come on stand up pee on this thing oh my God you're in rhabdo call the ambulance.

[00:56:16] Yeah, and you know you bring up another interesting point that would the gym actually want to do that because then they might be opening themselves up as legal action. And yeah, I know I know I know I know the personal trainer doesn't want you to know. Yeah a lot of gyms I think unfortunately with many fitness centers on man I can't say how many but some of them the less they know about you the better because then they can't be you know you know you know deniability well we didn't know yeah I know yeah it is sad so I want to wrap this up the website is Joe - Cannon.com you can go there and [00:57:00] read more you can get the book there I guess can you get the book at Amazon as well.

[00:57:03] You had the book on Amazon. That's my book right there show that it's rhabdo. Just very easy to find on Amazon. You can get it for me directly on my website since you myself. Yeah, it's all over the place. And I said to say I was going to say well Joe you got to update the cover. But no, I think nobody's heard of it yet.

[00:57:21] Anyway, it doesn't matter. The fact that the fact that we saw like 10,000 percent increase in searches for the word when Dana Lynn Bailey posted on Instagram that she was in the hospital for rhabdo shows me that nobody knew what it was. And if they think they know it what it is, they're probably wrong because they're looking at some of the so-called experts on the internet who were saying just drink a lot of water in jazz like that.

[00:57:44] I took all the signs that broke it down. So anybody can understand it very easily because I tend to write like that talk. But yeah, you know, it still is the scary side effect. Most people have never heard of or if they think they know about it. They probably don't know they don't know what it is.

[00:57:57] All right. Listen, it's been great having you on the show. We'll have [00:58:00] you back. We'll do some more fun things together, okay? Slowly across the floor do you take care? I take care of you too. And then I was supposed to do come at me bro tomorrow, but I think I'm taking off. I know a lot of you like when I do come at me bro, cuz I answer your questions live on the air, but I'm going to take off tomorrow.

[00:58:16] Let my I heal and I got a lot of things to catch up with in the studio. So we'll see you Monday with more superhuman radio. And of course as always thank you for being [00:59:00] here.