[00:00:00] What do you notice about me? I don't have a patch on man the eyes getting better. There's no doubt about it. This has been a tough five weeks. I can tell you that between the eye pain and being blind in my right eye and not being able to drive at night. I've been quite miserable, but the past two days that I hasn't hurt.

[00:00:46] It's not as bloodshot. I'm actually able to see shapes. Instead of just like I was looking through wax paper. So I think the patch is gone, but I've actually been told that by several people that I should keep wearing the [00:01:00] patch because it makes me look interesting but it sucks. I don't think I want to wear it.

[00:01:06] I'll tell you the truth, you know, a lot of people train for years. They have the dedication the ethic the hard work, but they just don't seem to make gains then they hire a coach. And all of a sudden they're like on it, they're doing things that change in the body's changing. What is it about hiring a coach?

[00:01:28] Is there something special about hiring a coach Could you actually get the same results on your own that you would by using a coach? Well, my next guest says yes, and he's willing to bet that you can and he's dr. Scott Stephenson. How you doing Scott? I'm good girl. I like the intro. Yeah, I didn't know we're going to bet on this but I would say if not better results then more better experience and absolutely more learning and [00:02:00] when it's all said and done probably.

[00:02:02] a more gratifying. Time bodybuilding if you do it on your own and that has to do with intrinsic reward. Yes. So what so what is it specifically so okay. I read all the same books that people read. I know the movements. I'm I'm diligent about my form. I just don't make any progress and then I hired the coach and the coach says we doing things differently.

[00:02:29] Is it is it because people just aren't tuned into their bodies. What are they lacking that makes. The direction of Coach provides so much more valuable than anything I can do on my own one of one of the things and this is just the specifications of feature of human nature. It's also something that many coaches will take advantage of is that the end product is you it's your body and people who are going into bodybuilding or physique development or what have you [00:03:00] most of the time there's there's some sort of.

[00:03:02] Connection those a self-esteem issue possibly. I mean, we are a very materialistic ego. It's society and in the Western World, so it's a scary thing to do like your insecurities are basically open and on display so you don't mess this up you want it so that that that creates an extra amount of caution make creates fear.

[00:03:27] It creates that insecurity that a coach can can can tap into if they really want to be devious about it and some coaches. I've seen personal trainers who are just terrible and some coaches are just doing what what really needs to be done for a lot of these folks has is giving them the help that they possibly that they would need the education the extra support.

[00:03:47] So there's sort of a whole spectrum of what a coach can do anything from basically playing on insecurities and. You know coupling up selling people products and all sorts of devious things that that you hear the nasty [00:04:00] stories about to a coach who is doing their best to try to educate that person and bring that person to a higher level of understanding so they can then go and become an autonomous independent exerciser or competitor on their own.

[00:04:13] So to give them those bits of information that that are lacking and everything in between but to a large part is like this is it's different than. Let's say you're building a shed out in your backyard, you know, and and the sheds like you build the shed and maybe like the roof leaks a little bit and water comes through and so your lawnmower gets Rusty and what have you that's not going to be a shameful thing where the neighbors are going to come and point and say, oh my gosh.

[00:04:38] This guy can't build a shed. But if someone is is overweight or they don't like other body looks even if people are not looking at that them in that way. There's psychological phenomena where. I think that you're being judged in a way when you you really are not so much. We're totally our insecurities really come out.

[00:04:58] What about what about [00:05:00] what about thank you Kurt Yaeger says the one and only Doc's got dr. Scott Stevenson. What about the fact that many of us suffer the fact that we are even in this game. Indicates that some of us have a skewed view of what we look like some form of body dysmorphia. How does that play into me training myself?

[00:05:24] in a multi in a multitude of ways really one of the things of course is that that's benefits an amplified by social media as of late you and I were just talking before the show about how long you've been been doing superhuman radio superhuman Nation now, Before they were even podcast before there was you had we had discussion with would have faced but would have social media.

[00:05:46] We have Instagram basically distorting our body image and a certain way. You don't see the average bodies on display very often, especially when you go to Instagram and you look at your you know, your primary [00:06:00] feed their you're seeing the most extreme extraordinary examples, at least I am because I've you know, I bet connected to the connect with the bodybuilding world.

[00:06:07] So. The other body dysmorphia is definitely there and and we've got advertisements. Everything is pushing in that direction. It's a it's a really ripe industry Health Fitness supplements diets that plays upon that it literally tries to evoke that in the customer because that creates the need that creates the drive for the products that Amanda comes from that dysmorphia.

[00:06:31] So to speak or that feeling that somehow you're lacking or your lesser than other folks. So it's absolutely utterly there. What what what about what about what about the like I'm going to say so because I used to love to deadlift because I was so strong and because I used to love to squat because I was so strong but I didn't like the bench press because I wasn't really strong in the bench, press as a result.

[00:06:55] I focused on posterior chain. Now if I was working with a trainer, [00:07:00] right probably would have made me bench more often or at least do more chest work. I mean that that's kind of like the body dysmorphia thing that I was thinking of it, you know, most people look at themselves. They see the one thing they don't like about themselves and that all they see and that but yeah that that just drives their selection of exercises.

[00:07:24] They think oh I need I need to do this when in Raleigh reality. Maybe they need to work on their shoulders more, you know. Yeah. I mean, I think that that holds in many ways we tend to seek out. And then commune with people who share our ideas, you know, we treat which we try to find things that will reinforce what we want to think and feel about ourselves in various ways.

[00:07:46] So yeah, you're going and going the gym like let's say maybe like, I'm I'm not going to say you did this necessarily what someone said. Hey so Carl, what do you bench? And you'll say you know, really? What do you devil if that's what matters get me a bigger answer right? [00:08:00] And he's everything counts.

[00:08:01] Yeah, right and there's a reason but if you had a great bench, you probably just want to answer the question with your great bench number, right? So yeah, we definitely do that and that a good coach can do that. They can basically tell you what at some unconscious level. You already know that you need to do these things.

[00:08:17] And that's that's a very hard thing to do to hold yourself back and do that. I think you can that's part of what I've kind of done in the book. In large part there's there's some details in there that the people won't know. I'm sure cuz you know a lot of its I've dug deep in the science that we quite a long time to put the book together and I've been at this for a while.

[00:08:36] So there's going to be information that's new and novel people but a lot of the things are going to be things people already knew or sensed or intuited and they just needed to real it. Okay. Here's a guy who's been at this for a while. He seems to know what he's doing. He's makes sense to me. This makes sense to me.

[00:08:52] It's made sense to me for a while and it's substantially with both his expertise his experience and a boatload of scientific [00:09:00] references. Okay, I can do that. Now it's a confidence booster for certain agree. I agree with that a hundred percent. And here's why I see it from this angle people. The reason people jump from program to program is because they don't want to waste time.

[00:09:16] Sure, and unfortunately, they're unrealistic about how long it takes to see progress in the first place because they're reading bodybuilding magazines that are telling them that this guy did this in 16 weeks when reality guys been out of for 16 years, but the. The problem is that they don't want to waste time.

[00:09:35] They don't want to do something few in futility that that's really not going to end up building muscle. And so your endorsement of yeah do this that that allows them to then trust the journey and do the work and wait for the results. I agree with. Yeah. Yeah, and there's you know, there's also there's a really kind of interesting and I'm not a I'm not a psychologist.

[00:09:58] But I've kind of dabbled in this stuff [00:10:00] because it's just kind of appeals to me and I think it fits well in this context is that there's a mission body of literature. They looked at what happens when you're introduced to people external rewards of actually done this with like rhesus monkeys and there's a book.

[00:10:14] I think I think is the last thing the author called drive and he talks about this where rhesus monkeys will sort of spontaneously start playing with with puzzles and they become very good at them because there's something about that this. As a curiosity when you start giving them rewards for solving the puzzles, they don't put the puzzles as much anymore and they've done this with children to who in Nursery School elementary school when they were playing there.

[00:10:40] They're the ones who tended to be painters and artists, they picked them out and then divide it into groups and gave some of them rewards for having done what they did and the other ones they allowed them to just do so and they would give them rewards that they weren't expecting and when they were when there is an expected, War when the activity was connected to some [00:11:00] extrinsic reward as opposed to the intrinsic value of the and of itself they didn't do it as often they wouldn't they wouldn't spontaneously go and do the art if you those were just it wasn't that there's anything about those kids is if there was a connection to some reward that happens and I think that's what happens and they've actually done this with this with with adults as well.

[00:11:21] It's something that's sort of. It's sort of a baseline understanding and marketing and in business that you know you if you connect and sort of an operant conditioning fashion some extrinsic reward that will drive Behavior, but we do all sorts of things hobbies and art and music and in my in my case bodybuilding because it's such an Eclectic Endeavor digging into science and going in the gym and being a knucklehead and everything in between.

[00:11:50] That it has incredible intrinsic reward. And when you connect that with some I need to get to point point B [00:12:00] or to Z from a my starting point and all I want to do is focus on Z you can then diminish the value that you that you can get the intrinsic value of actually taking a journey. It's like I just want to get there right there's.

[00:12:16] A book that you Robert Pearson chronic. He passed away recently classical classic Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. Oh, yes. Yes. Yeah multiple spin-offs of that book and one of the stories in there one of the sort of quintessential stories that he puts forth is. He's out on this motorcycle trip with a couple and the couple I think they've been in business.

[00:12:39] They had sort of kind of hectic 925 type jobs and they went out on the road and they had their motorcycles and be there on one bike. I think the couple in here his bike and they just want to like get on the road and just like do the thing like disconnect from everything and just like, you know ride and have the bike just take care of itself.

[00:13:00] [00:13:00] And not be connected with all the inner workings of the motorcycle the Zen and the Art of maintaining the motorcycle because they just wanted to get from place to place or see the sights or see the attractions and as opposed to enjoy the the ride as you go along and if the bike breaks down there's a beauty and understanding the inner workings of that which was that's that is that which is carrying you right?

[00:13:24] And that bike is almost like the body that you're trying to transform. In the context of bodybuilding. There's an intrinsic reward at least for me, which I'm hoping people can enjoy more with a book like mine and that it's sort of like a map. I called a map to find your own way on your on your body with journey pick and choose what you want in the map pick your own path.

[00:13:47] There's some ideas in there, but it's still your own path and some sort of a manual in a sense. And then you can enjoy what you're doing there along the way and like if you don't win first place or get your pro card or [00:14:00] become the state people, whatever then like you're not yet up. You don't see people like smashing their trophies, right, you know or Bonkers because that's all their focus was on.

[00:14:09] They enjoyed all the things that came along the way even though bodybuilding contest ID for instance is very very rigorous. There's all sorts of I think at least insights that can come from sort of putting yourself in that that difficult position. You can't expect especially, you know, starts literally starving yourself.

[00:14:27] Now it's there's a there's a lot that can happen. You know that back in the day, you know, that was a way of cleansing, you know spiritual cleansing, you know was to deprive your really food, you know, but I don't think most bodybuilders looked at Deep at what they do and that's why they get so disappointed when judges don't see the value in their physiques and it right it's see.

[00:14:54] But it's hard not to expect gold when you've been [00:15:00] training for I mean, it would be like going to the Olympics. I mean, yeah, you're right getting there just being at the Olympics is great. But right you want to win gold, you know, it's it's sure it's a very hard so you have to somehow balance out and say.

[00:15:15] just the journey alone was so valuable. It's added to my life and if I happen to. Take first place in this event. That's great. But if I don't it shouldn't diminish anything about you getting there. It doesn't it. Doesn't it? I mean literally it's funny like if you could take someone. And let's see bring it up to the day of the show and I've seen this happen and they're so excited.

[00:15:40] They look better than they ever had. Everything's going phenomenally the thinking I'm going to win the show what have you and then, you know, there's some crazy political outcome or something happens. They don't win and then they that can completely tarnish everything that happened. If you could hit the ties down and just eliminate that memory of having Place poorly in the show.

[00:15:58] There was they were quote [00:16:00] unquote. They would they wouldn't have diminished that memory that memory then can get destroyed by focusing so much on the outcome at the end. It's funny. Like the beer own bodybuilding coach is kind of a subtle play on beer on Buddha. And you talked about starving yourself, you know that one of that's one of the things the Buddha did is basically prevention deprivation sins of the flesh as well.

[00:16:26] He tried everything out, you know to try to figure out his own path and one of the one of the things that he sort of put forth was find your own way. Figure out what works for you and see I'm a time. I'll be 61 tomorrow. I've actually finally thank you. I finally discovered that, you know, I've gone through a lot of transitions since first starting doing the show when I first started doing the show, it was exclusively about bodybuilding the first year.

[00:16:53] Yeah that Randy wrote wrote muscle smoke and mirrors and I learned about the origins of physical culture that [00:17:00] splinted off to all these other factions the Greco-Roman 's and so on and then that change of direction of the show and so many things keep changing and now my direction is changing again because I'm starting to discover some of this stuff and I may have said I discovered it a long time ago, but I was just paying lip service all of a sudden it's connected to me.

[00:17:17] I want to get a couple statements and questions out of the way that the odor the viewing audience. Mike Barrett says I watch others I listen especially to those who know explain how to exercise trained correctly to avoid injury, especially the 40 year olds and up and Beyond. I'm sorry, but not only 40 year olds know what they're.

[00:17:38] I think I think he's means those who've been training for a while and they're still doing everything for it's evident that they know about doing now my good friend. Brian McNeil a macneill. He's Brian is a great guy. Brian is is genetically gifted he really is he super muscular, but he had a big old belly for years and you know, and he fired a [00:18:00] coach and holy crap mean it's been.

[00:18:04] I want to say he's been working with this coach for about four or five months now, but he I mean he looks so good and he's actually going to step up on stage and I think Brian's in his late 40s, right? He says I think a coach brings accountability. What do you think about literally? Oh, yeah, I mean, it's not it's not obviously doing it on your own.

[00:18:24] It's not for everyone without a doubt. There's like I said, there's there's kind of a range. There's the kind of the evil coaches and then there's coaches that will provide that accountability. It's like a partnership. I mean if you look you can actually look at the exercise adherence literature and we don't do a very good job with the various interventions of kind of getting people to continue to exercise but but having familial support and spousal.

[00:18:48] Or group support social support can really be important for maintaining those behaviors whatever the health behavior maybe including exercise. So people [00:19:00] need that to various degrees and with bodybuilding especially because it's not like okay. I'm going I'm going out and I'm walking with a try to walk 30 minutes a day 5 days a week.

[00:19:09] That's easy to grasp for most. But bodybuilding is a whole other ball game. It's like you're doing what and like you're doing these things. And why do you train? So you just picking things up and putting them down and you got a headache after you train legs? Why do you want to go and do that?

[00:19:24] Exactly. Now your nose is bleeding and like you're starving all the time and like its it doesn't it does p doesn't resonate with people. So all those social support aspects can be gone and a really good coach who gets you who knows you even better than your partner May. If you're married or in a relationship is can be super duper important for some people and that's just a function of the nephew.

[00:19:49] But can you hold yourself? Accountable can't you say look part of my routine is every Monday morning. I'm going to take pictures of myself and I'm going to look at them because it's hard to look at them. You look you don't want to [00:20:00] like yourself. I'm going to take pictures of the I'm going to look at them because that's what my coach would do remotely if I was sending pictures to them.

[00:20:06] They say, oh, you know, we're going to cut back on your carbs. You're not losing enough. What? Can you hold aren't there mechanisms in place that you can hold yourself accountable? That's that's what the whole book is about actually is how I've done that myself. I would do that with clients. I have a list of the things like like pictures away to you skin folds not to make a body fat estimation but to get an another insight into how much body fat you have offseason or pre-contest.

[00:20:34] I have something called a personal bodybuilding inventory, which actually if you go to my website you can download that. It's I made as a PDF form you can fill in with fields and you can print it out. As it kind of check in with yourself to see where your goals are how you come along with whatever goes you put together everything from you know, medical things.

[00:20:53] You may be having trigger foods. It's basically a kind of a full intake as well as sort of a check in with [00:21:00] yourself. So you can absolutely do that. Let me go to the website. The website is BYOB be coach.com and you can also buy the book which is like stupid ridiculously inexpensive. It's like 20 bucks.

[00:21:15] You'll spend 20 bucks on a supplement or training book actually is 20 without the PDF. This one is 64 this PDF and it's a hundred on Amazon, but it's 420 page. It covers though. Yeah, so don't wanna give me the prices again. Give me the prices to go report to training broken up. You can see that that's a $20 in the book The PDF is $60.

[00:21:36] Okay, and then once it's hyperlinked out the yin-yang so you can like literally find something if it says refer to the section on essential fatty acids, click that it will leap you forward a hundred and fifty pages to that section we can leap back. And then Amazon and Barnes & Noble both have the hardcover $400 but still you'll spend $100 on on let me [00:22:00] let me pick one that didn't work HMV free acid because somebody said it builds muscle and then you'll stop taking it two months later because guess what it didn't build any muscle.

[00:22:12] I mean, you know about knowledge training sessions. Yeah knowledge knowledge stays with you forever supplements you p.m. Out they're gone. Yeah, so yeah. Yeah, yeah. It is a framing thing people see that price thinking like, oh my gosh, and some of that is because I have this is a print on demand.

[00:22:31] So I think like six more than half of that just goes to the cost of printing the paper and that kind of thing it by the textbook by the PD. Yeah, and the PDF is great. I spend a lot of time. There's actually a Kindle you can get to on Amazon. I'm not sure what that one's priced at right now. Those are all hyperlink.

[00:22:48] So that's a nice thing. It's like okay, what does he say about fats? You can search for fats and then just bounce around like what I do with fats pre-contest. It allows you to like literally there must be [00:23:00] three thousand hyperlinks the references. There's 2400 references. 2400 references so you can like if people want to go down rabbit holes.

[00:23:10] It's it's your journey into Rebel of the door, but it also shows that you're not so full of yourself that you think that just because you say something. Oh people should believe it. See that's I have a lot of respect for that. You know, one of the things I say when I start some of my classes and I've met even say this in the book, there's an old zen koan that says if you meet a Buddha in the road shoot him and the and that doesn't mean you should kill anybody.

[00:23:36] But if you if you come across someone who says I'm rebooting I am your Guru. I'm Your Man. Then extinguish that notion because you're your own booty should be your own Guru and you can do this interesting. Yeah. So yeah, I'm totally I'm like this is take it or leave it like this is just information.

[00:23:52] I want to help people as much as I can. But if you know, if you something if you know something works better for you, and it's completely opposite of what works for me than [00:24:00] then go for it, you know without a doubt which which brings another topic into play. I'm glad you said this is I find more and more people are completely devoid of the ability to think critically.

[00:24:11] You know, I recently discovered that all the caffeine anhydrous. I started taking back in the days when I trained in powerlifting all the huge coffee drinks that I drink day in and day out. They stopped working for me. In fact, they gave me gut problems. And so I said, you know, I'm giving up coffee.

[00:24:34] Oh my God, people came out and they said no, there's so much research on coffee. There's so much research on coffee, and I said look, I don't care about the research. It's not good for me. And as soon as I gave up coffee the third day, I was off coffee. I had the greatest sleep I've had in. I don't know.

[00:24:52] I tracked it with my ring. I had three hours of deep sleep now granted. That was probably a great sleep debt being paid back. [00:25:00] Sure sure like so tell me. So tell me again about the researcher like so me drinking coffee, that doesn't work for me. Because the masses say it's good for you is like me stepping over dollars to pick up diamonds because look at the Sleep Quality.

[00:25:16] I just got that's more important than all the research out there. We have nobody who thinks critically and as a result science leverages that and they do things like hey a glass of alcohol a day is good for you baloney. It's a neurotoxin if it's good for you give it to you and your six month old give him give him the leg up give him a head start now if it's so good for you.

[00:25:35] Yeah. We're. I'm still coming to go no critical thinking anymore. Well a couple things there I like the alcohol thing that may be something that you're reading in the in the lay, press and I from from the things that I have what I would like my deepest at least my personal deepest understanding of scientifically.

[00:25:52] When I see those things addressed in the lay, press and newspapers and online. I've just put it's just ridiculous many many times, [00:26:00] but the people that are writing those things aren't typically trained scientifically to have insight and then the translated that in a way that people can understand it's just so I don't trust anything lay press says, especially about things of the scientific nature just from what I seen that sort of I've extrapolated that.

[00:26:16] But there's another interesting thing to like what you're getting like they had done these they've done these studies to and I can remember some of the details of the studies are failing me, but they taking people in classrooms and they planted them. Amongst other people that are part of the study and you can shift people's opinions are very very basic things like the two lines on a chalkboard is this point like closer to the left or the right?

[00:26:43] And it's obviously closer to the left and it is coast to the left if you if you measure it and they bring people in and let them make that assessment on their own without anyone else's opinion and affecting there's but if everyone in the room says it's closer to the right. The people [00:27:00] say yeah, I think it's closer to the right because because you don't want to go against your right here fish in the school, you know, you don't want to go against the grain in many cases some people do not everyone, you know goes that way some people do it.

[00:27:13] I think just because they want to go against the grain and be naysayers, but it's a bit sad that's a normal psychological thing just sort of and it's all in line. So it was an evolutionary gift because dr. Daniel government talks about how. As humans one of our evolutionary gifts was cooperation the willingness to work together towards a common cause the willingness to raise raise another baby.

[00:27:36] If the mother died like we cooperate and part of cooperation is agreement and people who. Disagree, even if they're saying look know if you walk off that Cliff, you're gonna die. They're like, why are you disagreeing with all the masses? Because I want to save your life you dumbass, you know, so so you're right.

[00:27:57] You're a hundred percent, right and that's ingrained in [00:28:00] us to cooperate. Oh, yeah. You're right. Yeah. You're right. You're right. There's a reciprocal altruism which just as part of Being Human, you know that you want to help one another in that way. But but it does it submerges a common sense in many in many ways and that's the thing.

[00:28:15] I want to tell people is that. But this is a map. Like I use these in a I use analogies they seem to help people connect with with ideas a lot of times and this is the map that you're you know, you're following along. Let's say your map you're driving along and you've really got to pay for map or even your GPS and your GPS tells you.

[00:28:33] To go down this road and there's like a big yellow hazard sign like dead end like you don't drive through. Try stop like the coffee of screwing up your gut. There was another story to go like right now. I'm like, no. I'm not my I don't feel good when I drink coffee. I'm going to stop at so you need to trust in your own trust yourself and that take and I'm finding that takes courage and fewer and fewer people have the courage to say I don't [00:29:00] care what the masses are doing.

[00:29:01] I'm doing this. I mean, it's really amazing today. It's yeah, it really does and I think it helps like for you to say this and for me to say this to you because then we're raising a service counter voice that that Taps into that same tendency to listen to others that says it's okay to listen to your own inner voice.

[00:29:22] Well, I'd also you know what I think doc a lot of times.  There's some obscure thing going on in a segment of the population. Let's see the okinawans, right? It's working for them. So then we do studies on it. We say oh everybody should do this because it's working for them and that arts and social science depends on the masses accepting and adapting It But when reality is the reason it worked for that small segment of people may have something unique to do with their their genetics.

[00:29:58] They're [00:30:00] polymorphism their upbringing their social their views on society or whatever that doesn't mean and that's my frustration with science today science find something that works for a segment of people and says, no everyone should do this and that is just purely wrong watch is real a good scientist would not say that I've actually the last chapter the last main chapter.

[00:30:22] I've got some resources at the very end but is all about critical thinking and. Being a critical consumer of scientific information, etc. Etc, etc ways of knowing things like one of the ways of knowing is just trusting your own Intuition or using your common sense science is another way because your mama said so is another way all of the four-year-old to look great in the gym, you know, the train for decades.

[00:30:47] That's a way of knowing there's various ways of knowing. And what happens a lot because this is Sensational the job of people in the news is to sell the news right? It's not necessarily to [00:31:00] provide you with the most accurate information because that's not that's not sexy. That's that's like it's like it's like let me like, oh my gosh, here's the let's talk about the five criticisms of the study of the Okinawan.

[00:31:12] And their fat intake relative to cardiovascular disease right? Like no one's going to read that like what that's right. It's need to be right. I want to know what I can what I can do. So they take that information and they will violate what you might call in scientific terms the external validity of those of those data and basically say is this these data have validity internal to the context of those of those studies Okinawan, With that genetic lineage at that time frame eating that diet, etc.

[00:31:43] Etc. Etc. For those sourced Foods everything else. And then when you say well this this obviously applies to people in Alabama who are eating, you know, highly processed foods who don't exercise and thing with a do who have different genetic lineage a set of set of said, it's like [00:32:00] no that's you can't see that.

[00:32:01] There's anything you need to note that limitation. Without a doubt, but that doesn't get carried over some now and the Linda and that is here's the problem. Science is complex. It cannot be reduced down to a headline and a short couple paragraphs, but that's what people want. People don't want to know but on the other hand as soon as you see on the other hand, they changed that they they change the page and I want to read that but that's the problem.

[00:32:26] It's complex and nobody wants to know no one wants to learn. They just tell me the one thing Doc just tell me the one thing there is no one thing. Right. That's it. Was it was it interesting thing? And I'm sure you've seen this and this is not not not to Poopoo this this way of analyzing science, but it's a wonderful thing now that we can we can do meta-analyses are done to such a large extent because it's a great way to try to try to do that reduce everything down to the bottom.

[00:32:54] You know the most important piece of information we can glean like what's the some the some basic [00:33:00] scientific lessons that can be learned from somebody literature. But then sometimes you're missing the trees from the forest because there can be particular studies that may have very very good external validity for you as a person that our evidence to show, you know this particular.

[00:33:19] Intervention, let's say it's like nutrient timing is one that I've that I've delved into and I've used a good bit with my clients. I find it be effective in many cases. If you look at some meta-analyses French non-protein timing of those sorts of things. They suggest that nothing's going on there the reviews suggest something around there, but one big review that came out it's been three or four years ago and actually is a good friend of mine was a co-author on this Alan Aragon.

[00:33:42] Oh, yeah. Yeah. We do a podcast together with Brad schoenfeld. And they're statistician. I think 19 of the 23 studies were done with untrained people. Yeah, and so people will talk about that. And so that doesn't fit with the people who are really rich naturally. [00:34:00] So you need to look at that and there's some studies that show really tremendous effects from that are really well done.

[00:34:06] So the meta-analyses have criteria. So they have to put these various things and we'll put them in and people forget about those criteria are if they take train that untrained. Well now you're mixing apples and oranges to some degree, right? That's Unchained. People are going to just grow no matter what you do you get a great treatment effect from that.

[00:34:26] And then hopefully of course trato training affect nutrient partitioning training of actually affects what your body does with that food that you eat after you've trained and and the the training status of the person is really what I'm getting at here is like there's a law of diminishing returns so you can actually and I just did a Q&A with with Aaron Stern who lives here in town should be out and you shoot soon on can you lose fat and gain muscle at the same time?

[00:34:54] And you can do that in on train people. You've been at it hardcore for a decade doing [00:35:00] everything you can to gain muscle and and not get too much body fat. You're not going to expect to put on 10 pounds of muscle and gain and lose 10 pounds of fat with some three-month program. Right but that had happened with someone who's completely untrained isn't eating a horrible diet or so.

[00:35:15] There's a there's a little early. Like a Quantum difference between an untrained person and a trained person and those might be lumped together in the meta analyses and that's simply because they've left their criteria. So wide open so even the meta analyses which you know people's Outlook and I don't have to worry about it's a meta-analysis.

[00:35:34] They looked at everything right? You still have to look then it's back to the point you make you still need look and try to read the actual papers. If you can't and you can do that, it seems like. Oh my gosh, like I don't understand like every third word is afford. One thing II when I first started doing this show.

[00:35:51] I told my audience get yourself a dictionary. It's all looking these words up. Bring your bring your self up don't want them to dummy it down. [00:36:00] Yeah, and you can do that. You can like there. There's a there was a report by the FDA when they that came out actually posted this on my Instagram. Maybe a month or so ago.

[00:36:11] It's been three or four years ago. They kind of did an audit on the extent to which products were meeting their requirements for substantiating their claims scientifically and those things have to be for instance. If it's probably the product for human consumption a student studies done in humans blah blah blah and literally all of the puck know the products past met all the criteria.

[00:36:34] They all fail. They tested the like over a hundred they all know what came up. Having passed with an A plus plus and so like if you sometimes look you see a study like you could but just copy a recent especially as online. You can just copy the citation put into Google or Google Scholar and read the study.

[00:36:52] It's like, okay, so this study was done with. C elegans so that's a worm right? [00:37:00] But that doesn't mean I don't know if like the worm worms. I'm a person I'm Alyssa warm. That doesn't seem like that's going to be the most relevant thing to me, you know, even rotors even wrote us don't necessarily translate to unite Brian I feel is leaving the audience but he wants a black one quick question answered.

[00:37:16] Oh sure. He says I'm very interested in the PDF to use as a reference tool sounds great. But is it conduct a conducive to someone attempting to? Each compete steroid and hormone-free serious question. I love that question because the one I usually get is does it talk about how to use gear? And it does not what I have a large section on what side effects are some of the things people don't know about how steroids can adversely affect everything.

[00:37:46] Of course from your liver function to things like beta amyloid plaque in the brain precursor to Alzheimer's disease all sorts of things like that. Right friend has been implemented. That's the one. Yeah. So yeah, [00:38:00] but none of the book in requires any use of any steroids or Peds that are. Any like that I talked about some of the basic supplements like creatine.

[00:38:09] What have you the most diabolical anabolic thing in the world is food. Yeah. Yeah food. I don't believe me. Do do thousand milligrams of test Trend and deca a week and but don't eat. See how much how much muscle you put on I didn't do that. That's that's Carl's suggest. I'm just playing man. I know you had no I am not.

[00:38:34] Okay. So, um. This is I got I got to give this guy props. I didn't know this about Mike Bear. He's been in the audience for a while follow the show. He says I chose to be up to eat be lazy and get fat now. I choose to eat right exercise more. I used to weigh 550 Plus pounds. I'm down to three sixty four.

[00:38:55] That's awesome. Well done and Kudos on the very first sentence there I [00:39:00] chose to do this. I took responsibility. Yeah, exactly. Yep. He owned it and now he's owning it. You know what the best part of this is Mike you got so much muscle under there. If you do this, right if you Whittle yourself down, right if you will the fat down, right you're going to find out.

[00:39:16] Well, first of all, you probably have the best calves in bodybuilding right now for yeah, but yeah, you're going to be so muscular. So just take your time take it slow man. It's really going to be good. Yeah, my ass was seeing things. He probably knows that already, you know skins one of. Thank you.

[00:39:32] Gotta catch. Yeah, it happens. Pretty much everybody. I was I was 330 pounds and I carried it well, but I have loose skin at might like my belly button and below. I got that little and I've talked about getting it surgically removed, but I'm not that vain. I just you know, I just think it doesn't matter to me.

[00:39:48] Really? Yeah, you're laid up for a few weeks and just a pain in the ass. Yeah, I want to put the book back up one more time. The book can be had at be BYOB be coach. [00:40:00] Dot-com I mean look you'll pay a coach more than that every month to train you and you know what and that this is not I'm not saying don't use coaches but shouldn't you at least know more than you do right now shouldn't you at least be able to tell if your coach knows what he's talking about?

[00:40:18] And you know, we did a show back in 2009 called. Personal trainers attack it was a take-off on When Animals Attack, you know, we got a problem. There's a lot of dumb personal trainers that did that will hurt your ass. If you don't know that yeah, this is a good this is a good reference book for sure.

[00:40:39] A lot of the people who buy and I can tell cause you know, I get emails from people who pick things up at least the PDFs Amazon and don't know but you can tell from the email. It's like, you know, John Doe fitness.com or or John Doe it? Whatever you can tell it's a personal trainer so coach at which is God bless them.

[00:40:57] God bless you say thank you. Do [00:41:00] that man. I was going to take one quick commercial break when we come back going to pick it up on the other side in the meantime while we're in the brake go to the website and buy the PDF. That's what I'm telling. You stay tuned. Welcome back were talking with dr.

[00:41:14] Scott Stevenson about his book. Be your own body building coach. You can get it at his website be y OB B coach.com, you know Scott I'm going to be 61 tomorrow and I still train hard. I tried as hard as I can. I may not be lifting the weights that I did some years ago, but I'm back on track getting there because I've had I've suffered a lot of injuries the past few years.

[00:41:39] I've had two surgeries and. Torn hamstrings and all that sort of stuff but I'm coming back but I look good for 61 years old. If I say somewhere and my frustration is that when I buy clothes they don't really show the muscle that I carry but I found I found the [00:42:00] company. Okay. They're actually a sponsor.

[00:42:03] They're called drone rho n e.com. And they have a line called the commuter line which has a little stretchy to the pants. It makes your quads look really really really good and the shirts have a little bit of a give to them. So my shoulders look full and my biceps look full and I love these clothes because II feel like I work hard.

[00:42:28] In the gym, I want to go out at night. I want people to go. Wow, that guy must work out, you know, look at him. He looks good. And so and the best part of this website is that you can get on it, you know guys hate to shop when I go shopping with Elisa. Like I literally go in go right to what I need.

[00:42:46] I buy it I walk out and she likes to stroll around and look and see what and I'm a in and out and that's why I really like Rome because you go to their website you look at some of the items. You click on it you buy them and you're done. [00:43:00] So the summer is here. We open the pool up and I don't have any swim trunks right now.

[00:43:07] So I've been wearing my underwear going out by the pool and I at least it goes I don't think we have a neighbor that just moved and he's got a young child next door heard a husband and she's like, you know, I don't think the neighbors appreciate you being out there and your other way. I'm like, oh come on.

[00:43:21] They look like swim trunks you go. They don't look like swim trunks. They have a fly. They have a fly on the. I just found some really cool swim trunks at Roane.com and our audience gets 20% off if they use the coupon code. Shr. The website is rho n e.com. You will be in on and off that quick.

[00:43:44] You'll find clothes that not only look good when you're looking at them, but when you put them on. They show all the hard work look for the commuter collection. It's a great group of pants and shirts and save 20% off by [00:44:00] using the coupon coupon code shr. And if you buy Scott's book, you're probably going to want to have to budget for next year because you probably have to buy new clothes then I'm going to fit you anymore.

[00:44:09] The best thing about those closes. That won't scare the neighbors. I think I mean, yeah. Yeah II have to start wearing swim trunks at the pool. I was told ya. Yeah, I don't care. You know what I'm I don't care anymore. I don't know. I'm at that stage of my life where who cares what these people think of me, you know that he is out there in his underwear again.

[00:44:30] Look old guy in his underwear. I gotcha. Come on. Don't look don't look getting back to the book. So obviously you have a variety of different workout programs in here. Did you incorporate your fortitude training into the book as part of the training or this fortitude training deserved to be discussed separately.

[00:44:48] Yeah about as a separate ebook for a few training is it's sort of a separate entity. I'm actually working on another addition to that. We're going to add some twists to the program using the same principles and [00:45:00] update one of the things that people like about the fortitude training book is that I dive deep into the mechanisms of muscle growth and how those can be then manipulated programmatically with.

[00:45:11] Ensuring you recovering properly autoregulation for trains a high-frequency program and we can go into why I like that would manage can be there especially for old. How old are you now Scott 48. Okay. So so when you get older training more frequently is actually beneficial, but you must take into account the amount of workload.

[00:45:33] You must spread it out over more days, but training more frequency when I train less. I feel stiffer. I feel muscle pains when I train every day, and I literally will do like a whole body routine every day, but I'll just back off on the volume a little bit so that I can come back tomorrow and do it again.

[00:45:51] I feel magnificent. Yeah, it makes sense. And it just sort of think of it kind of teary. Logically. This is one of the [00:46:00] things I mentioned the book when I do talks on frequency, if you're thinking about trying to evoke an adaptation in the body sending the signal that would would be received as like one that you should listen to Priority.

[00:46:12] But yeah, you can think about like well, you know if you want to learn the language. Would you try to go and spend like eight hours on the on the weekend just watching the Spanish channel on your TV, or would you expose yourself to an hour or so every day repeatedly doing that like people who study for exams?

[00:46:28] No, that doesn't work trying to cram if you wanted to get a good suntan. Would you go and just fry yourself, you know go to the tanning salon for an hour or you go and explode yourself on a regular basis. You want to learn a new skill. Um, you know lets you learn to juggle what you spend five hours from the do it.

[00:46:44] Once we try to do a half an hour every day most sports.  train everyday like football basketball soccer ball to all those Basics almost everything is done on a daily basis, but we do it differently in bodybuilding because [00:47:00] basically sort of started with. To some degree and there's a reason I can delve into at least that I have my own thoughts as to why they might happen.

[00:47:06] It has to do with some muscle biology things that are going on connected with muscle growth while I think that that has become of the minds of the Bro split has been been so well established because people who grow really well can get away with that. That's a whole other topic that we can also the window.

[00:47:25] So just touch on that just a little bit so in other. You're saying that the hardgainers just need to train more often. They just don't they just they shouldn't be doing this. What one day a week this body part. That's my guess. I kind of learned that myself. I try that for years. One of the things that seems to be in almost all scenarios really really important for muscle to grow as you have to get more nuclei in the muscle muscle so gigantic, so they're multinucleated and those come from satellite cells which are basically muscle specific stem cells that sort of see.

[00:47:57] Periphery, they're like satellites orbiting so to speak the [00:48:00] main contractile muscle cells and when muscle grows those satellite cells go through a cell cycle. They pray they reproduce themselves in those nuclei than make them way in this into the muscle cells. So now this muscle cell is growing and growing and growing.

[00:48:14] And it doesn't have enough nuclei to take care of all the various areas of volume in the cellars my own nuclear domain and I've always sort of liken it to a growing city needs more post offices right thing. It'll the flow of all the packages and letters and what have you so that from the little information I've been able to find in humans when you when you stimulate muscle cell to grow or you produce sort of an injurious stimulus.

[00:48:42] The cycle that's brought on to turn on those those satellite cells last like five or six five or six days almost a week, right when people are extreme responders. That means that they've got they probably have more satellite cells in the first place. The density is [00:49:00] higher, but they get a greater release of the growth factors and the cytokines stimulate that whole satellite cell phenomena.

[00:49:08] And the people are non-responders Rapport spawners. They don't get much but it might get a little bit of oomph. But there may be some sort of a threshold for really getting the satellite cells to carry out the full process. So my thought is that if you're someone who gets a great response from a single training session and that lasts for five or six days in terms of that quintessential satellite cell activity that you need for muscle growth.

[00:49:32] Well, then you can get away with training once a week because you train once and then you set a process in motion that lasts almost the entire week or five or six right? He's right. Whereas if you're someone who doesn't get a good response, you're gonna have to repeat that stimulus. They would know can Elevate the satellite the cytokines and what have you and maybe two days later you train again or every day most people would train every day, but that's been done.

[00:49:55] Actually one of the the most impressive is a very short study the most impressive [00:50:00] study that I've been able to find. Was they train twice a day only for two weeks six out of seven days a week in terms of rate of muscle growth that was using blood flow. Yeah, yeah, so that's a whole different story.

[00:50:14] But so you constantly elevating those cytokines and growth factors to turn on the satellite cells may be something that someone who just doesn't do a good job of that in the first place because they didn't walk into the gym and grow just by staring at the dumbbell rack right with what a lot of guys do with this genetically gifted you can those guys the stories if you listen to like a lot of the pros is that they went in they train with their buddies and like maybe they did.

[00:50:41] No, like a month later because someone said you should do and they won the show. And they followed the path of Phil heathy basically won their first show and then they won the Jew Nationals and when the got their Pro card and they won their first year three shows the pros like, okay like there's a gift here, right?

[00:50:56] Pardon the pun. That's why he has that nickname. And [00:51:00] so if you're not one of those people. You may have to do things a little bit more way that sort of fits with what what makes sense. At least from what nature would expect when I was like, okay, so you said nature, right? So let's so from an evolutionary perspective exactly tamping down muscle growth was actually an advantage because muscle is metabolically expensive.

[00:51:21] You have to eat a lot more to support it. It burns a lot more calories. So from an evolutionary perspective those guys weren't gifted they put on a lot of muscle. They had to go forage a lot more food. Hungrier, they were more likely to become food. Quite Frank. Yeah, maybe for in there and their ancestry whatever it is that that may have been Advantage such that maybe they could be the biggest strongest person in their tribe in a way that they can say now.

[00:51:46] I'm going to sit here and eat you could get okay go get me some food. But what I was saying this, I noticed the phenomenon at a very young age. I was I was 16 years old and I was working on the racetrack thoroughbred horse [00:52:00] race horses. Uh-huh, and I the the farrier that shod for our barn. His name was Elmer Campbell and he was a little frail man.

[00:52:11] He must have been in vain. He was in his 60s then and this was in the sept 1974 and he had rail thin shoulders and you know, but his his right forearm. Looked like Popeyes Forum. Yeah, right and that was because all day long he swung a hammer and rap rap rap He put nails in horses hooves put nails in horse's hoof all day long.

[00:52:40] Now, I didn't know the word hypertrophy yet then but I understood something was going on boy Elmer's forearm is so big from swinging that hammer day in and day out fast forward to about 22 years ago. And I started becoming fascinated about weightlifting and muscle creation and so on. [00:53:00] I started to notice in the summertime the majority of people I saw what shorts on guys had a much bigger right calf than the left calf.

[00:53:09] I'm talking about the gastroc and I coined the term occupational hypertrophy. In my head, I thought you know, you hit the brake hit the gas you hit the brake you hit the gas hit the brake get the gas. Then I started to notice that people had more of a flare on their left quad then they're right quite.

[00:53:26] Oh that's from getting out of the car. You're doing a basically One Leg pistol squat getting in and out of your car and I started to put it together, but all those things you do day in and day out. Yes, so this is just an N equals zero observation to support what you're saying that I believe this now because I'm making gains again and it's because I'm training every I'm training every body part at least four times a week right now in a way that you can recover from.

[00:53:56] Well. Yeah, I'm just I'm just not crushing it every day. I'm not going any Russian it [00:54:00] and that's comes to the discussion. We had off the air. So I actually write a prescription. This is what I'm going to do today. Even if I feel like I can do more this is all I'm going to do today, right, you know, because I could go and be a I'm really a jerk when it comes to I have the best.

[00:54:17] I have the best ego. He's a friend of mine. I remember him around 2002. I had done a tremendous deadlift session. Let's say on a Wednesday and I was only supposed to do cardio on Thursday, but some friends of mine were dead lifting and I had to fight myself from getting off the treadmill and going down and deadlifting with them because I knew I was Stronger than all of them.

[00:54:38] Right right so I can be an asshole when it comes to. Yeah, but now I right now I write my I write my prescription and and if I get out of the gym feeling like I didn't work hard that's okay course is tomorrow. Right, right miss you said so many things there. I really like the anecdote about the farrier and his forearm that fits the example that I've used is is [00:55:00] mechanics wrench monkeys, you know have really big forearms.

[00:55:03] Then you see this one of the things that I've actually put into fortitude training it clicking repeat myself because it just talked with Ben pakulski and that podcast came out today on the same topic is I built into the system. The idea the way the refs are carried out and way the three different set types and fortitude training.

[00:55:21] So it's just you try to put as much focus on the muscular stimulus and away from the nervous system stimulus. Yeah, so because that's the limiting factor I yes. Yes, and that barrier is really really interesting because he was real thin everywhere else and Eeveelution had equipped him to be very economical about where he put the muscle mass which is where it was needed and it was really like a world-class forearm just one.

[00:55:49] Yeah and everything everything else. We know look like it was, you know, someone who'd been a concentration camp. That's right. Yeah, and you see what. I want I want I want I want to stop you because what you [00:56:00] said, I don't want this Nuance to disappear over people's heads. But when you go in and Crush yourself, you're not crushing your muscles, you're crushing your nervous system now becomes a limiting factor over time.

[00:56:11] I think so. Yeah because fatigue sets in the brain with their Studies have been shown fatigue starts in the brain. Where is various ways that it can happen? Like you can go anywhere from the motor neurons in the brain down to the neuromuscular Junction to the metabolic sources. There can be the contract elements in the skeletal muscle can fail potentially.

[00:56:30] There's all sorts of levels of fatigue that that isn't it true but isn't it true that it's the first thing to get fatigued the first thing the governor that starts to tell you because because pushing those those are pushing the peripheral nervous system is okay. We are really. In trouble now because this is something we can't recover from so the brain kicks in first and says I'm getting tired.

[00:56:52] In fact, I remember a study where they actually had this magnet. It looks like a Halo and they let these guys do leg [00:57:00] extensions to failure and then they said do one more rep do one more rep and they couldn't and then they put the magnet over their head and they block something in the brain and the lake came right up.

[00:57:09] Do another one another up up up up. So when they block that portion of the brain that that was triggering the fatigue response the peripheral nervous system just kicked right back in and started working. It sounds like I haven't seen that study that sounds like that was transcranial magnetic stimulation of the motor areas involved with knee extension.

[00:57:29] So literally what they did was. They over rid the inhibitory mechanisms the brain and directly stimulating those Alpha motor neurons. I haven't I haven't seen that one. It's an interesting thing because yeah, I would love to see that. I've done a lot of things down but mainly with the with transcutaneous where you're stimulating the muscle, right and the one of limitations their course or not, of course, but one things that I mentioned a good bid is that when you stimulate your stimulated the nurse directly when you use e stem on the muscle that you're sending signals [00:58:00] down to the muscle and back up.

[00:58:01] The other way anti-drone mclee towards the brain so you can actually evolve we going back up can interfere with the defending volley from your brain. And now what's going on there as you might be inhibiting what's coming down by sending signals in both directions with the with the East M. So if you want to yeah, so there have been studies where they suggested that people have a hundred percent motor unit activation like examples of older folks.

[00:58:27] And who if you took those people and train them who've been Center for years, they would have tremendous strength gains that were much greater on a relative percent than what you see in terms of increasing muscle mass hundred percent increase in strength in a matter of months. That wasn't because they doubled muscle mass in those muscles.

[00:58:44] That's a neurological phenomenon. That's right, but then you would say those people somehow had 100% ability to activate the muscle probably not. No that's a limitation of that of that. So. Yeah, the the idea of a central Governor is one that you don't know [00:59:00] if you chose that word deliberately, but that oh, no, I did because because these days so the heart the heart has a series a cluster of nerves in the brain also that tell that the brain talks to the heart and the hearts going we're getting close here and the Brain starts to shut down motor activation because the hearts in trouble that's another Governor that we have in our body vector control centers.

[00:59:21] Yeah the other and your heart rate like the. Perceived exertion. That's a borg scale that runs from 6 to 20 is based on the idea that a 20 year old who would have a max heart rate of about 200 or 10 times 20 and would have a resting heart rate of about 60 or 10 times 6, there are we would range from 6 to 20 with basically zero rating procedures darshan arrest.

[00:59:47] 220 or they just to have that down from 0 to 10 or did or 6062 20 on that scale or 60 to 200 would be there with the be there. Yeah, it would be their heart rate because it matches rating proceed insertion increases during endurance [01:00:00] exercise linearly with your heart rate and I'll tell you I haven't had a chance to introduce this into a podcast.

[01:00:05] I don't think but it's a cool little notion that a friend of mine Paul Carter Paul and I and Ellie are gone are doing a tour Holzman on seminar. It's been yeah, I know. Yeah, okay. Okay, great. Yeah, so one of the things. The he I had experienced years ago, and I've sort of figured out that he would run into and other people may have this issue is if you do and maybe you have to if you two really diabolically difficult set in the gym like a drop set for legs and you get done and you're like you really just had to push yourself and stay focused and then you stopped the set and come out and you're no longer lifting but you're her is now highly elevated and now you're starting to actually probably get some lactic acids coming out of those muscles as well.

[01:00:46] You are doing anything but your body is in an extreme alarm State because you got increased acidity coming back from the muscles. Some of which was trapped there because of the muscle contractions disallow blood [01:01:00] flow. So now you have increased ventilation your heart rate may be going higher at staying elevated.

[01:01:05] You can create a panic type state in. This used to happen to me all the time and talent and tap. It's happened to me. It has happened to me. Yeah, well as Douglas probably would do if you do a higher place I used to do I used to do some giant sets multi-joint. Yo, I would do squat I would do deadlifts and I would do hip thrusts and I have videos of it on Facebook and I know you're talking about actually actually my heart rate would go so high that all of a sudden it would slow down dramatically.

[01:01:38] It would it would it would it would it would go might not be but had no. No, that's when I started doing them. Yeah, it's the yeah, it went from like the bamboo but but would go boom boom. Boom and I will get lace in it. Yeah. Yeah, I would get lighter. Yeah, like oh shit, I would kneel down I got everything right and wait for it to stabilize and then it would stabilize quickly.

[01:01:58] Yeah, one of the things that [01:02:00] I suggested to Paul and it seems like it's like you're that wonderful friend your ego stepping forth to try to exert himself to pound your chest is that if psychologically when you get done you try to calm yourself down which is what Paul would try to do but your body is sending you the signals like holy shit.

[01:02:15] We still have we still have work to do a heart rates elevated been litigated. That is a total mismatch and that was like, okay what's going on? My body is out of control. And that can create that Panic effect what Paul and I would do in pulse in my God. I'm so happy because it worked like a miracle for him is you stay in your Zone.

[01:02:35] You stay aggressive and say I'm I'm not done yet. I just kicked that that wait, but like we rocked it. We destroyed it right on like even like even give yourself like, you know, like a like an exhilaration like the guy who just, you know, sweater set a world record in the squatting like that and you come from feeding Jeff.

[01:02:52] Yeah, stay excited. That matches what your body does that fixes it almost all the time. You know what I do with squats and I've talked about it on the [01:03:00] show for years when I would do a set of squats to that degree of stress and strain and I would just just get out from under the bar. I mean my heart rate would take off and I would literally a little panicked, you know, like why is it slowing down?

[01:03:17] Well, now what I do is I my audience knows that I'm going to say I wear the weight. I don't rack the bar. I keep the weight on me until my heart rate starts to drop and then that would that would do it. Yeah, so you're easy yourself out of that mismatch because that's what it is because how many guys have you seen miss a lift and pass out.

[01:03:37] Yeah like that the look they make videos on YouTube. Yeah, they like they grab the bar they come up with it and they miss it because they got myself all psyched up. So psyched up and then they missed the lift and then the body is still in that zone it but they just stop they just dropped the ball and they just WAP.

[01:03:53] They just fall right down so know about a lot of times that's part of the reason. Yeah. Yeah, your blood pressure could [01:04:00] go up to 800 over 600 in valsalva. I've never seen that I've seen I've seen 300 over 200 documented in the research literature with leg presses never seen 800/600. Yeah, maybe I'm exaggerating.

[01:04:12] I don't know. I actually have a I have a I have a BS it stands for bullshit. What I want to do is I want to take a last commercial break when we come back. I want to wrap it up about the book. Okay? A great stay tuned

[01:04:27] welcome back. We're talking with dr. Scott Stevenson about his new book. It's not that new right you've this book has been around right last year camouflage. Okay, so did I even called? Yeah be your own body building coach. It shows you how to get the results that you dream of and you know what it's we're not slamming coaches coaches are great, but you can get a lot more done than you are right now.

[01:04:51] Using a book like this and while you're there pick up his fortitude training to because then you can have the training style that he promotes you you train some some [01:05:00] really great athletes don't. The most well-known person is day Henry. He's got one of the most aesthetically pretty physiques that I've ever seen.

[01:05:08] I've always said that about him. Yeah ridiculous. Yeah. Yeah, and I can't I mean I can't that's not attribute of anything special that I did that's you know, right parents good genes. You know, he trains hard. Yes. He's been using my training system for a while the thing I think with Dave that I'm kind of happiest about is he has been the only only active ifbb Pro.

[01:05:31] Around longer than Dave is Dexter Jackson and Dave Dave and Dexter actually won the mr. Olympia the same year, right, which was 11 years ago. Now they won the 202 then it was called to the 212. That's where Dexter. The mr. Oh and so days been at it like he's but I think is my 14 years as a pro. So we one of the questions or one of the comments was about older guys and still training hard and you still train her actual train hard and this training [01:06:00] system one of the things that's kind of cool is that.

[01:06:01] The way I've set it up is that you're not going in there and training with gigantically heavy loads, there's a undulating periodization a daily understanding periodization different set types and I've got a stretching component, which I think the research is in there, but I think it's helpful as well.

[01:06:18] It helps people tuned in a little bit. We're like some of those as my UK clients would say the niggles. Are you stretch every single day. So low, there's something that's just not quite right there in my hamstring for. So my biceps or whatever suits your become attuned to your body in a way that you wouldn't otherwise there's a lot of variation.

[01:06:38] There's a lot of autoregulation and had lot of older guys come to me who were just the joints actually got better because they were they weren't locked into it's a very much. Self driven training system where your auto regulating your choosing your own volume, you're choosing your own exercises really entirely.

[01:06:58] Some of those are locked into a progressive [01:07:00] overload schema and some of those are really sort of go in the gym and have fun. There's one set tied called pump sets where you just kind of go in the gym and you try to create metabolic stress and and pump the hell out of the muscle. Those are fun. Just kind of go for it.

[01:07:13] Let loose type of thing. And but you're paying attention like little it's written in and this is this goes back to what kind of what you're saying that you do when you say this is what I'm going to do today.  And you have to follow that you have to execute that is you're not going to do you're not going to do more right?

[01:07:30] You're not going to go and do extra deadlifts because you're some guy, you know, who's calling your ego dresser or not, you know you're stronger than he is is I tell people if you go and you start to do an exercise and it doesn't feel right. There's just something that just doesn't then don't do it.

[01:07:44] That's part of the program that you're that's disallowed. You were actually not following the rules. If you lock yourself into say today, I have to do back squats or day. I have to do this leg pressure this hack squat or this particular barbell press or whatever. Maybe that's a [01:08:00] no-go you avoid those things and I think.

[01:08:02] You know, it's sort of like, you know going down to imagine the wear and tear on a car. If you if you just drove down the highway that was full of potholes. There's more and more as you get older and you just ignore them. You just kept on running into the potholes but your suspension to get torn to shit instead of taking your time and slowing down going around those things finding the smoother path.

[01:08:23] You're still going to get where you want to go. In fact, you'll probably get there faster. There's a little less break down. So that's one of the things I think it's really kind of coolest about the program is it works? Well for kind of anybody we have set it up some of that's because it's very different than what other people have done.

[01:08:38] I die. You have to have to remember that as if you're doing something new and different that still effective. It's going to be an incrementally better. I'm way to grow because just because of the novelty of it to some degree. But all these older guys who come to me. They say Scott. I actually really having fun training and I hurt less.

[01:08:56] I don't feel like I've just destroyed my felt myself through a meat grinder [01:09:00] when I get home. So those that's kind of nice to hear from people who've done the isn't there some evidence that stretching actually improves satellite cell deployment and. Stretching under load I know is one bright strap, but why wouldn't stretching in general have a similar effect?

[01:09:21] Well, there's a whole number of different ways. You can kind of look at that. There's the animal research and like you people probably talked about the quails the waited the loaded stretches actually of all the studies in a Vienna mammalian skeletal muscle that I've seen the largest degree of muscle growth was in a weighted Wing study done with quails that guy named Jose Antonio.

[01:09:46] He's really well-known. He's got a lot of really cool assertion and humans now, but he was doing some of that stuff and they progressively over these quails and I think their increased their the muscle mass like three hundred and twenty-eight percent something like that over the course or [01:10:00] declining.

[01:10:00] Well, right when right right, right? No, no. No, but you can't you can do like we've got the example of a farrier. Elmer whatever his name was tremendous muscle growth there. That was a chronic overload all day long pounding away and the same kind of way that that happens. So the way to stretch will do that.

[01:10:20] You can also just look something about being under stretch, even if there's inactivity preserves muscle mass. So if you for instance cast someone's arm at 90 degrees at the elbow the biceps will atrophy much more than the triceps. Hmm it basically the biceps is going to it's going to remodel itself the sarcomeres the way the actin and myosin overlap will say, okay.

[01:10:45] Well now we're chronically shorter. We need to we need to readjust ourselves so that we optimize the actin myosin overlap for contraction and the muscle will just get smaller. Another example, we look at people who are in wheelchairs if I like spinal [01:11:00] cord injuries, and they will tend to just sit in the chairs and they can't tell they don't just make a difference to them if they got a complete injury, they can't feel it.

[01:11:07] But they'll plantar Flex at the foot. So their toes are pointed and the tibialis anterior muscle which is a Dorsey flexor front your tip. That will be the same size as matched control able-bodied people. Who walk around all day long, but the but the planets lectures will be shrunken. They'll be like, yeah, they're shorter.

[01:11:27] That's well. They're still in activity everywhere or some amount of spasticity based on how much of their spasticity meds they may not may or may not take but if but that muscle that's on stretch will tend to retain its size much better than a muscle. That's not so two things on my shoulders roll real far forward and I'm sure it's almost like when I'm on the treadmill now I clasp my hands behind.

[01:11:50] Find me and I you know, I can die roll them up and I stretch and I get such an insane pump in my shoulders just from stress. [01:12:00] Right the other thing I was going to say is you think that's what's going on with everybody's so as shortening because we sit in these chairs like this for eight hours a day.

[01:12:07] I heard the ads. Yeah, I've been here is that thing? It's really amazing. The funny thing is. So I've had some lumbar product problems, but since I've been focusing on the so as thing with that with that, so right I feel like my back problem is going away. Yeah, so as tightness is a major cause of low back pain lumbago.

[01:12:27] Absolutely. Yeah, that's one of the first things I'll look for like I'm I'm a licensed acupuncturist to and I've changed in Chinese herbology and acupuncture and and body work. And a good massage therapist can do this the right way not all of them have had the training to do it. I've tested them out.

[01:12:44] I used to have a clinic where I had massage therapist, and I'd sort of sample various people come into potential employment. For work there and you can do a so as release. We're literally you dig in and you just like [01:13:00] if someone he's got a knot in your traps really dig in and they release the not you can actually dig into the so a switch is pretty deep in there.

[01:13:08] So as major and get the iliopsoas complex and release that. It hurts like none other but that can as long as you do both sides. It's funny. You have to do one side and someone gets up on the table and they're like, oh, I feel like what I'm going to walk in circles here like you got to straighten me out.

[01:13:25] I can't walk straight and literally it's that dramatic in some people but it hurts a lot. It's not. It's not something you want to just like going like someone who would go on. It's like I'm going to just dig in here and could you could you could press on the wrong thing. You could hurt somebody who know where you looking for in here and healing for but it done correctly that can be a tremendous way to help people with low back pain, especially if they're at a desk all day long.

[01:13:46] I'm getting I'm having a massage for my birthday tomorrow. I'm going to ask her if she knows how to do a so as release. I'm going to be a unique agreement me cursing my name afterwards ordering it, but hopefully not afterwards you have it when I use it when I was in my twenties I lived [01:14:00] in Las Vegas.

[01:14:00] So I met this girl at a bar one night, you know, we hung out blah blah blah, so she was a masseuse and she said she did wrong sure Rolfing she said yeah, I didn't know what it was. She was like, what would you like me to give you a massage? I was like, yeah sure. So yeah. She first she relaxes me, you know, she gives me a really nice massage.

[01:14:19] I'm face down and she goes, okay. She goes now. I'm going to I'm going to Ralph your bicep. I jumped off the table. I was gonna punch her. She did she I said, what are you doing? She says I'm digging into the muscle to because your muscles are all how did she put it, you know, like they were all impinged or and I gotta I gotta totally separate all the fibers.

[01:14:42] I said she gave me a black and blue the next had a black and blue on my arm. I never talked to her after that. I was like, what are ya this is Rolfing. I was like, well, maybe it's okay for Ralph do to him but don't do it. That's it. I'm done. Yeah, I roll five events. She may have had some training there but really good role for his will [01:15:00] not.

[01:15:01] They want you to commit to like an entire sequence of like I think at least a dozen treatments, right and a lot of times they want to have really pure control over the other activity. So like bottom is like no, I don't want you lifting because you're going to undo the work we've done right? We're going to just reduce the spasticity and those not so things were trying to we're basically she's basically trying to like remodel the myofascial fries system of your body in a very significant way.

[01:15:26] So it's it's kind of like. You're trying to rebuild someone's house and it's like you need to get out of the house because you're not going to have a roof and electrical. I can't have you living in there at the time. I'm trying to like rebuild this thing from the ground up. So it's wrong. So Rolfing is legit and its really oh, yeah.

[01:15:43] Yeah. Yeah. It's a. Yet to be kind of really committed to it. I mean, I don't know. I don't I don't I'm not trained as a trained in that myself, but I've known many people who are and without a doubt if you stick with it and go all the way through and go with someone who's been who's in [01:16:00] direct lineage with her with the inventor, then you can get some dramatic results, but most people who do it.

[01:16:09] It's very expensive. It's very very painful. Yeah, but it's very effective and you have to you have to be willing to commit to you know from Mom. She told me that what sometimes she was telling me this whole story about how when she's Rolfing. She people it releases hidden emotions. You may realize that and when she did that to my arm like the days later, I think yeah hidden emotions.

[01:16:31] I'm scrambling hunger. You're hurting me. You heard me. What do you mean? Yeah. That's why they're crying. I let's let's talk about the book for a couple minutes for we sign up. The book again is be your own body building coach. And of course you can get for to to training to by going to the website BYOB be coach.com and you have lots of good stuff that you even have a forum on your website, huh?

[01:16:55] Yeah, I've got set up the form. If someone really would like to I let [01:17:00] people in all the time. I set the form mainly for the fortitude training program. So someone buys that. Um, they get a lifetime membership and I've been answering questions for free for people who paid 20 bucks for the book for years now and so I brought the book out and it's just just a way to get back and I mean there it's a 3-2.

[01:17:17] I have a dime a day membership. I really only set that up to keep the trolls Howard. And to prevent bum some of the box from kind of funny if I was if I was if I was a troll I'd pay a dime to troll the website. I know that's yeah, that's not a big block. You people don't do it though, like most going to do that.

[01:17:36] You know, you can't you can't register me they have access to like, you know one. One very small section of the board and that's where have all the boxes that sort of thing. But yeah, if I let that I basically just my whole I really miss it sounds like kind of la-di-da, but my whole purpose is really just to try to educate and help as many people as I can when it's all said and done.

[01:17:56] I don't imagine lying on my deathbed and saying man. I wish it would have made more money. [01:18:00] You know, I'm going to imagine, you know, I'm glad I helped many people's I did and I wish I could help more. I actually I actually think about death a lot not because I'm your friend too. It's interesting and I told this story on Tom Bill use podcast, you know, he has that he'll theory he has on his YouTube channel.

[01:18:22] And I said, you know when my I lost my my father my mother and my sister all within a four year period and that's it. It's just the four of us in our little family. And so that all of a sudden like when I lost my father I started to recognize my own mortality. I was like, oh man, I saw in fact when I saw him laying in that bed taking those laughs.

[01:18:43] The shape isn't his face the shape of his eye sockets his chin. I saw me. I was like, oh my God, I'm going to be gasping for air at some point. There's no way out. You can't negotiate your way out. I got really depressed for about a year and a half. I'd wake up in the middle of the night. I cry and I [01:19:00] really felt terrible.

[01:19:01] And so but then all of a sudden I start I thought to myself I remember the story about G Gordon Liddy. You're old enough to remember who G Gordon Liddy. Yeah, right. So G Gordon Liddy was afraid of rodents rats. So what he did when he joined the CIA was he he went to a pet store. He bought two white rats.

[01:19:17] He brought them home. It was the hardest thing. He said they were in the seat next to him sweating in his car. He took him in the house and he dropped them in boiling water. And he killed them and then he took them out and he shaved them and he ate them hate that and then he thought like if I eat these rats, I'll never be afraid of him again and he did he lost his fear.

[01:19:37] But what that really meant to me was when you're afraid of something. It's even more important for you to confront it. You got to get it get it over with the kid. That's cool that you're afraid of fighting. You just got to go up and punch him in the face. Just get it over with and so I laid in bed one night.

[01:19:52] And I imagined that this was it like I can't get out of bed. This is it. This is I'm going to this I can't I can't say goodbye to anybody [01:20:00] else. I'm going and I started to do that like couple times a week and I cried and I felt all sorts of emotions, but at the end of. Um, I came out of it like I don't fear death at all now, I'd like I'm not afraid of it because now because now that I've actually explored like what's good and I came up with the term snow day, you know, when you have young children and it is snow or the schools are closed and and nobody nobody expects you to go to work.

[01:20:28] Nobody expects you to go to the grocery store. You just kick back you go to the kids. Come on. Let's put some on TV. Let's make soup and chicken grilled cheese sandwiches. We got we can't do nothing. It snowed a. Right, right, right. So yeah, it's so for me like death is going to be snow day. It's going to be hey, you know what?

[01:20:43] I'm done. I'm out of here the rest of you carry on and so but I started to look at my life differently. I started to look at the things that I really needed in my life.  That I knew that when I lay down I'm going to regret or not regret [01:21:00] and I came up. I started to like narrow the important things in my life, and I realized that.

[01:21:07] Life is this journey? You and I are in a car. We're starting in New York with driving to California.  And as we drive with look how beautiful Montana always that way by the way, people aren't driving in New York. We always always going to count. Yeah, right because it's sunny there and and so and so and then you go man.

[01:21:26] How many days before when California go Scott's gosh. Don't talk about, California. Like I know we're going there. I know we're going to be there but I don't want to talk about that. That's how we address death. It's like no, I don't I'm gonna die someday. No, no, let's not talk about that stat. I don't want to talk about that and I realized that if you don't address your death now, you'll never live life fully like get the fear out of you and that became a really big Crossroad for me.

[01:21:54] I absolutely agree with that. And I and you know, I'm thinking like part of what [01:22:00] this book has done what I've experienced with bodybuilding reason why I put this book out is because. Taking that like I'm waiting to get to the day of the show at the end of the bodybuilding Journey. So to speak out we can't wait to get California and I don't want to experience the discomfort of waiting to get to Callie.

[01:22:17] I don't want to experience the fear of dieting down and saying okay. I don't know what to do now with my diet. Do I cut my calories? A lot of people not everyone certainly not everyone. I'm not trying to like lump everyone together, but they're there are situations. I think where people have a chance there to look at that hurdle.

[01:22:36] Look at that challenge to see you know, what there's something to be overcome here. There's a fear that I can go into. But I could if I make a mistake like oh my gosh, I made a mistake and I dyed it too hard and I lost you much muscle and the world didn't end and people didn't look at me and scoff like oh my God, look at that person.

[01:22:56] He just he totally dropped the ball on his contest prep. It [01:23:00] wasn't all that important. I'm still a valuable person. I'm still lovable. I'm I can still go on with my life their lessons to be learned from we learn more from our failures than our success. And failure scares the shit out of us coaches, are there either to guarantee success or to provide someone you can use the scapegoat for failure to large corporate?

[01:23:23] That's what happens a lot. So you're avoiding those challenges those things that evoke in us the growth that we have an opportunity to engage in here when life hits us with the things that knock us down the chance to get back up and become stronger. Is something that you can miss out on if you're relying upon someone else to do all the driving just wake me up when we get to Callie, you know, I'm going to just you know, I'm going to do everything you say I'm going to I'm going to hate it a lot and when I get scared when I'm going to take our how much longer how much longer how much longer and you could say.

[01:23:56] Oh my gosh, we're in Idaho and you're missing the world's largest ball of [01:24:00] yarn. Nice is Awesome with the greatest friggin thing right now. You're missing. This is what is this is great. Look what you just missed the coaches for instance, you know decides you know, what we're going to try something different.

[01:24:11] We're going to drop your fats this week as opposed to your carbs or vice versa and all of a sudden boom you feel better and you look better and something happens in your training and because you're not in charge of that and you don't care because you've got your eyes covered just want to know when you get to the day of the show you miss out on how cool that was, right.

[01:24:33] Because you were scared to look into those things and a good coach will will say hey wake up. Look what we're doing though educates you along the way and allow you to be your own coach or co-coach. That's how I still do work with people and I like to we're on we're in it together, right the way I think of it.

[01:24:50] I want to get their feedback as much as possible and I want to tell them what's going on and when they ask me questions that I know they can figure out on their own sometimes intentionally not tell them give them an [01:25:00] answer and let them sit with a little while until. Student now and then they figured out and almost every time there's gratitude because he realized you know what I thought that through on my own and I figured it out and there were some intrinsic value and having kind of Coach myself through those little those little quandaries that came along along the path and that's how you raise children, too.

[01:25:20] You want you to think for themselves overlying? Yeah self-reliance. Yeah, absolutely and great having you on the show today as always. Yeah. Thanks Carl. We covered a lot of ground show Scott some love those of you out there who want to make some changes. Look if you bite his book and you learn one thing from it that was worth it because you could buy supplements for 60 or $70 bottle and get nothing out of them.

[01:25:43] So there you go. I agree. Hi, brother. Thank. Yes, you're welcome, my friend, and we will see everybody tomorrow. Tomorrow's my birthday. We're having the blueprint Power Hour with Coach. Rob. Reddish woohee them. Maybe I'll maybe I'll dress up for my birthday. Probably not. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's [01:26:00] my style.

[01:26:00] That's actually a cool outfit pull out for my underwear. There you go. I swear by tomorrow.