[00:00:00] Welcome back to another episode of superhuman radio. We had planned on doing a Facebook live today, but we had a little snafu with internet connectivity which happens once in a while, you know, I'm not a big budget show and so I got to use the internet for things and so we are doing it the old-fashioned way.

[00:00:50] I don't know what to do with myself when I'm not doing video. I can actually pick my nose now, none of you can see it. There's a lot of freedom in this. But anyway, you know, If you pay attention to [00:01:00] the scrolling ads on Facebook or in magazines, you would really believe that nicotinamide Rabe side is gonna prolong life.

[00:01:12] And since the product is really just hit the mark in the past few years. We really don't know right we don't have anybody that's been using it for 80 years and living to be a hundred twenty and I doubt we'll ever see that. That's the built-in protection in anti-aging drugs. The reality is that if you introduce them now and people use them for 10 years 20 years.

[00:01:30] We really don't know if it's really going to enhance life extension. So it's a crapshoot. But if you believe the marketing nad+ is what everybody should be taking and you know, I tend to be a critical thinker I think that longevity and and health span a multi-faceted multifactorial. There's a lot of things you have to do right?

[00:01:54] Not just one anybody who believes there's just one thing you have to do is a fool. I'm [00:02:00] sorry to say that but nonetheless people are pounding their money away. Buying these NAD supplements. We even have a sponsor that's on our website that promotes these products but we've starting to learn is that there's lots of ways to increase NAD plus there's lots of ways to increase nicotinamide right beside we did a show not too long ago about using grapefruit to downgrade one of the enzymes that actually seems to kind of dispose of it.

[00:02:30] But the funny thing about all this is when you listen to the. Advertising hype they all say, you know, as you age nad+ goes down. Lots of things go down but no one is talking about why that is they never address why that is they never discuss the pathway and that subtlety is not lost on my guest today.

[00:02:49] He's a returning guest is good friend of mine Joe Greene from Veep nutrition. How you doing Joe? I'm doing goodness. And how are you long time God. You turned up a little too high there. [00:03:00] Yeah, so it's funny. You actually talked about this when we were at the quest Brain Trust meeting the last one.

[00:03:07] How long was that two years ago. Yeah, she is a good woman. Just very first one that we did after the metabolic Therapeutics in 2016. We did the one it was just that I think about 30 of us in our room at class. 2017 we had no we had no specific agenda other than to share ideas and wasn't that a wonderful experience?

[00:03:29] Yeah, it was really cool man. It was kind of a precursor of I think what it's evolved into today. But that was very intimate thing where you just had a bunch of people with their niches kind of kind of really the you know, all of the thought leaders in the industry sharing ideas and one of the ideas I threw out was.

[00:03:47] Where is this today, which is c-38 that we're going to talk about. I think at that time I don't think anybody was really familiar with it. So I didn't really get picked up in our condo that day in the room, but no be quiet because at that point in time the [00:04:00] whole nicotinamide right beside crazed hadn't even begun.

[00:04:03] No one was even talking about nad+ back. Yeah, it's interesting when I would want in my first kind of circle back up at Quest back in 2012. There were a couple of PDFs I put in front of someone was on the stuff on the gut biome, but there was another one I put forward called cert training which was something I've been doing since 2010, which is really targeting training and fish and everything around activation of a certain protein.

[00:04:34] I've been dealing with for a number of years here. And so it's coming was almost comical looking at the marketplace right now in terms of like where the marketplace is. And the way the marketplace is directing thought and all that because it has nothing to do with anything. So let's let's talk about this.

[00:04:54] So nicotinamide right beside is a subset a substance that is a [00:05:00] metabolite of plain old nicotinic acid. And nicotinic acid. Yeah, is it three dollars supplement at most grocery stores today? Right. Yeah. Yeah just named so just this kind of maybe a high level kind of recap but I didn't listen to your previous show on NAD, so I don't want to retry ground, but it's probably helpful if there's some new listeners in here to just kind of go over it.

[00:05:26] So you have you have a couple of molecules. There were called pyridine dinucleotides. They nucleotides so similar to you know, kind of building blocks of DNA. We have the nucleotides. These are based on pyridine and these are NAD and nadp. And they are essentially electron carriers and they serve really three primary purposes in your body.

[00:05:52] You need them for energy reactions which which I'll dig into in a second. They are the body's primary [00:06:00] reservoir of reducing equivalents. So you need them for redox reactions, and then they're critical and also in signaling. It's a sort of a novel area used to be thought that ATP was kind of like the bodies primarily primary primary sort of wiring system for signals, but it turns out that NAD and it's it's it's oxidized forms are equally important.

[00:06:28] So we need them in those three areas. We need them for energy. They're involved in what are called. ATP why both reactions and so they'll kind of converges on adp-ribose. So for energy production, you need them for calcium, which is really important to make insulin work and a lot of other things and you also need them to to power just numerous different kinds of reactions.

[00:06:51] So kind of the analogy would be they are not a fuel source in and of themselves, but they are what motor [00:07:00] oil is to your car engines engines not going to. I'm just not going to work without it. Right and so when you begin to see them as sort of like this necessary sort of thing to make the engine of Life go then it starts to it starts to kind of open up.

[00:07:16] Why why these molecules are so important but one of the things I don't want to rent at length, no, no. No, this is good. This is a good this is kind of remedial. This is important good. Okay. So one of the one of the. Interesting things and I'm just going to preface everything I say from here on out with it in my book.

[00:07:36] Right? And then this is actually really really this is a chapter in your book that were covering today and your book will be available in October, right? Yeah, October September today three years to make that thing is the hardest thing I've ever done but on so kind of high level high level what what the marketplace would have you think there's a couple of.

[00:07:59] Underline things in my [00:08:00] book one is that the marketplace of solutions is not being with what's really true about the body and across the board. You'll see this in category after category. It's just not dealing with what's really true. And when we get to we get to NAD what we're going to cover today you're going to see that the marketplace of solutions is the analogy would be to say that the reason your car moves forward is because of the accelerator pedal.

[00:08:26] Without that without taking into account everything that the accelerator pedal pedal actuates, basically. Yes, that's that's kind of that's kind of where the marketplaces out. It's saying. Well, there you go. The accelerator pedal gets sticky with age and that's the reason the car doesn't go.

[00:08:40] Interesting interesting. It's a hundred percent true and it's a hundred percent. Also incorrect of a bigger picture. Yeah, right. It's just that it's part of a much bigger picture. So the other thing the marketplace does not do is the marketplace never actually defines the real problem. It just doesn't do it and there's a chapter [00:09:00] of a book on weight loss where I go into this and I just show like it's never been the problem has never been to find.

[00:09:07] And you'll see it with this topic to that. We haven't actually defined the problem. So all that said yes NAD and its derivatives are massively important, but they're part of a very big picture Okay. So let's let's discuss cd38. Let's introduce this this molecule. What exactly is cd38 for the. So citizen rate in simplest terms is an enzyme just like NAD is an enzyme it is what's called a immune cell surface glycoprotein.

[00:09:42] So it's a it's an antigen sensing cells surface cell membrane sort of sensor, right and principally. It's principally it does its work in immune cells primarily principally macrophage. [00:10:00] So it is something that's involved in energy metabolism. It's technically it's called cyclic adp-ribose hydrolyze.

[00:10:10] The one thing that kind of converges on adp-ribose and energy production, but the things that simple way to understand it is that it's it's a sensor that exists in the in the cell membranes primarily of immune cells. Now it exists in other places. And it can do a lot of things it can translocate into the cytosol can translocate into the nucleus.

[00:10:32] But primarily it's sort of a sensor in immune cells and it just think of macrophages and we talked about macrophages just for your audience here just to kind of differentiate. I kind of break them into two broad classes and in the science are broken into two classes one is sort of the killer macrophages and they're like a SWAT team their job is to go in and just clean house and then there's the Healer macrophages and their job is to kind of go in and clean [00:11:00] things up and you need both both are essential but what happens as we age.

[00:11:04] Is the healers tend to tend to shy away and The Killers tend to dominate right? That becomes a massive massive massive problem CD 13 is that the senator Susan cd38 is at the center of that problem. There is a there's a there's a family of proteins called that the CD proteins CD stands for cluster of differentiation.

[00:11:25] And they're all involved in one way or another in very fascinating aspects of immunity and Longevity and all kinds of things. So cd38 is a very important one but there's several others in my book that I talked about. They're just they're they're massively important. So cd38 and this particular discussion seems to inhibit.

[00:11:52] The enzymatic transfer of nad+ to cyclic ADP are right, which is the which [00:12:00] is the less the inactive form of of Rye beside that you don't want. You don't want that accumulating, right?

[00:12:13] so-so. NAB first a little history of the history of NAD goes back to pellagra. So back back way back a hundred years ago. Basically long story short. Scientists figured out that people were getting sick because they weren't eating meat products, right and at the end of a trace that back to niacin and kind of figured out.

[00:12:39] Oh, well, the issue is niacin and the so she gets that in as meat and so long story short that became the end the history of figuring out. You know what NAD is nicotine identically tried figuring out what that is where it comes from what it does. And so the first thing I stand about. Is it the body makes it [00:13:00] it has a couple of Salvage Pathways by which it makes it in fact, the the the nicotinamide right beside is is sort of this in a sense of secondary.

[00:13:10] So the secondary pathway by which it's made it's not even the principal pathway or or another way to say it would be to call it like the lesser-known pathway. But for all these years the principal pathway by which NAD has been salvaged other words niacin has been salvaged. I had nothing to do with nicotine my driver side.

[00:13:32] So you're buying makes nicotine by driver side makes nicotinamide on its own and the internal engine and I want to mention something you just said there. There's a subtlety to this but we have to think about it right people probably thinking it does. Well, where do we get? Nicotinic acid from what we get it from muscle meat of animals and they're not taking supplements and a lot of [00:14:00] those animals that eating their foraging grass.

[00:14:03] Things like that. And so this makes perfect sense. It's the same argument where people go. Oh, well, you know, there's no vitamin C and beef know the FDA never be the USDA never tested for this absolutely vitamin C and beef because they make their own vitamin C to get stored their muscles the same thing with nicotinic acid.

[00:14:22] So just like animals that we eat and get there niacin from their flesh. We make our own niacin as well. Yeah, so your picture first of all, there's this myth that the only way you can get any ideas in a pill. Okay. That's a myth. It's not true. It's not how your body works. There are numerous ways to replete NAD number one is sleep really something that people are really in need of right now in this population.

[00:14:53] Right, right. Yes, so there's this there's this sort of Mantra that you here, which is energy levels [00:15:00] decline with age and I think levels of climate sleep gets really crappy with age also by the way, right? So right well, so one of the things to understand is that there this is a very complex thing so, So within your within your body there's a course that o'clock proteins even I did a show on this like a couple of years ago on circadian timing right and there are different clock proteins in the body some of them are NAD dependent so in a sense diurnal Rhythm has a dependency on NAD, but the reverse is also true and he has a dependence on sleep so you have a stove with age sleep declines that internal Rhythm declines Sleep Quality declines now.

[00:15:44] Exclusively dependent on NAD. There's a lot of other factors that are involved there. But what you'll find is that so one of the reasons why NAD is declining is because sleep is declining and now we're not just talking about the hours [00:16:00] you spend sleeping but the quality of your sleep, you know, many of us are tracking our sleep now and we are getting the bigger picture what so Eliza profumo.

[00:16:08] Is aging better than anyone I know except maybe you Joel because you're aging amazingly and you know, one of the things I keep saying is like if I die young then body of work I've done is meaningless because people got like this guy didn't live very long. I'm not following him. There's a lot of people out there talking about anti-aging that are in their 20s and 30s you they don't know what anti-aging is yet, but then there's you.

[00:16:30] You have a certain type of training you have a certain type of diet and your aging amazingly. So with that being said so Ali I got to Lisa a ordering now, whatever people can say. Oh, they're not accurate. Well, let's say they're 30 percent off then they're that means that they're seventy percent, correct.

[00:16:47] So you getting some estimation of your quality of your sleep, whatever you want to look at it. Okay, so. Eliza is the most restful sleep I've ever seen she She lays down on her back her head on the [00:17:00] pillow. She wakes up that way and Whit now, we're tracking her sleep. She regularly gets two plus hours of deep and two plus hours of REM sleep every night.

[00:17:10] And now I want and I'm not the secret to her aging has been revealed to me. It's the quality of her sleep. Absolutely. There is a little known aspect of Sleep Quality, but there's a very fascinating section I cover on a doctor who has done really interesting study on REM sleep dreams. And the nature of dreams like that's kind of counter its kind of counter to a lot of the thought out there but long story short one thing we hear a lot with adults is yeah, it is so during the way I used to dream as much it turns out that dream sleep maybe more important much more much more important than we thought.

[00:17:49] But thank God because I dream and it sometimes I have very vivid dreams. I have I have well, I don't want to discuss my dreams on the show because people get a [00:18:00] glimpse into how great weird. I really am but no I dream a lot. I mean every night I dream. But anyway, okay getting back to this discussion here.

[00:18:08] So you said there's lots of ways for people to increase their own NAD. What what what? Yeah, what were those ways be. So obviously we've said sleep right? That's one thing if it takes energy butyrate production will replete NAD. Really? Yes, absolutely. So the key toad, so hang in ketosis periodically will increase and AD or taking butyrate products.

[00:18:41] No not taking you to practice. I would I would personally never take a butyrate product. You don't want there are several forms of butyrate. You don't want butyrate in the oral cavity. It just want to make it internally.

[00:18:54] Okay, but but regardless so there's. Whatwhat kind of dive into [00:19:00] kind of the wear this this takes us to which is what's going on. What's the big picture? So there's a big picture here to YNAB is declining. So nice to kind of tell you like mechanistically what it is and the mechanism itself is similar to the gas pedal analogy.

[00:19:15] It's the mechanism but it's not the big picture. You need to get the big picture. I want to get the big picture what that gives you is sort of the one you're not a sucker understand how things work and number two you can. Of a really sort of a complete approach to aging and that's really what it takes because if you time is on your side to some degree, but the more years you waste on sort of Holly body doesn't work the more years you're giving up if you might as well figure out how things work really fast.

[00:19:42] Yeah. It's a big picture the big picture sort of this. Okay as we age cd38. Is increasing and it's increasing in a mirror image to the way that NAD is decreasing so that sort of gives us a [00:20:00] we descended like this causal sort of jump to conclusion kind of thing. All great. Cd38 is the answer. That's why and it is depleting.

[00:20:09] The reason that cd38 is increasing one-to-one with decreases in NAD is that you need NAD to produce cd38 for cd38 to work. So what happens is the more NAB the more cd38 you have the more NAD is required and what it does is lines of cannibalizing pools of NAD and I are going to start or where even if you're supplementing with with say nicotinamide right beside or nicotinamide mononucleotide and we have elevated levels of cd38.

[00:20:38] It's in the analogy would be that we've got a ship. There's a hole in the hole. It's taking on water, but now we're bailing water. Okay, great. That's nice. You should do that, but it doesn't mean you've solved the problem and that's it. So that's kind of big picture. So cd38 is cannibalizing your pools of NAD.

[00:20:59] That's the first thing [00:21:00] understand but the next question is well why what's going on there? So as you begin to look at why levels of cd38 are increasing where it takes you to is immunology and what we're seeing here are populations of specific types of immune cells are increasing and the signal noise from those immune cells are increasing and so this takes us into inflam aging.

[00:21:23] And propagation of inflammatory signals and project November and the gut you know, when I started reading about when I started reading about cd38 and started reading about its role as an immune cell I thought to myself that it is on the surface of immune cells. I thought oh my God, there's a good link here.

[00:21:45] Well, that's kind of one of the core thesis in my book is that again? You're not talked before about you know, it's not one thing. In fact, there's a in one of the opening chapters. I just I just list all the things that are increasing with age and all the things that are decreasing with [00:22:00] age and we walk away from that going all know.

[00:22:01] It's not one thing but it is but these things are interconnected and there is an order of operations and there is a bigger picture there is a grand unifying Theory to it all and so you can you can kind of focus on you know, one particle you can focus on the big picture. This too is a number of things that are happening in order of operations as we age so begins it begins in the oral cavity and it begins in the gut where we see sort of the borderline of where you end and the world begins.

[00:22:30] And so that's kind of the first sort of area of disruption. And then what we see from there is essentially translocation of. Macrophages and things like lipopolysaccharide into other tissues like you're out of those tissue and now we see a process taking place where over time what we're seeing is the macrophage dominance that we want which is into macrophages that healing macrophages [00:23:00] serve begin to get overwhelmed with the inflammatory M1 macrophages.

[00:23:04] Now you need both again, but it but anyway they get do they get overwhelmed by those or is it the fact that. Inflammation, you know inflammation is up that the destructive type the fire the house is on fire and they're just not capable of this onslaught of post-production work that has to be done to put everything back together again.

[00:23:30] But certainly that it's kind of its kind of why they're needed to be like I needed to write a book to explain this thing but long story short now that they're sort of an order of operations here much of its kind of fat loss. You have to understand that when it comes to sheer number or signal noise or volume.

[00:23:50] Most people have more fat cells in any other cell in their body type of cell in their body, you know, like the average person's walking around know what 20 30 By fat, so [00:24:00] the signal noise from adipose tissue can become deafening over X and interesting. And so there's a Cascade of events that happen that are out of pose related that over time sort of tilts the tip of the bow of inflammatory signals from macrophage.

[00:24:18] And so the net of these signals the net of inflammatory populations of inflammatory macrophages essentially in some ways begins to kind of Hit the bow under water so to speak and so what you see then is this combines with a number of other things in other words, the level of under factors are taking place.

[00:24:38] One of them is sort of proteins in the blood thickening of the blood. Bunch of different things but long story short what we see is the inflammation begins to rise and is inflammation rise immune cell populations rise, and then those are in cell populations have cd38 in their membranes and greater populations of that that requires more NAD.

[00:24:57] So we're going to look at the big picture. It's going to take us back [00:25:00] to kind of a grand unifying theory of what's really going on here and the answer. Sort of as your Crux mechanism is inflammation and inflammation and inflammatory populations of immune cells. That's kind of a big picture and I'll kind of put a period on it there.

[00:25:18] That's that's well. Okay, but but so but it sounds to me like. in an approach to so I want to take a break in a minute. But before we go there because when we come out of break I want to talk about how do you fix the problem, you know some steps to fix the problem. But what role does tryptophan play any role in NAD production?

[00:25:44] Yeah, that's that's a that's a good question. So it's so supplemental trips. Tryptophan. The answer is probably not probably not too much. No. No, but I'm thinking of I'm thinking of so so more tryptophan is made in the gut but that doesn't get to the [00:26:00] brain by the way, the tryptophan made in the.

[00:26:03] Is thought not to be able to get through the blood-brain barrier, but with that being said more tryptophan is made in the gut by the Flora in the gut if you're talking about a shift in gut Flora. I'm wondering what role tryptophan has in it. If it's thought if it's not being produced in the the quantities, it was once being producers that playing a role in the downshift of an ADD and and and its role with the in concert with cd38.

[00:26:37] well, so you need to plan in the Salvage pathway, so. The bigger sort of the bigger answer to that is that an entirely different plank of the same problem that you need to address at the same time are declining levels of key bacteria in the gut principally before the bacteria. It does this kind of [00:27:00] myth out there like diversity you need diversity in the gut.

[00:27:02] That's total. BS is big were saying I have no idea what they're talking about. You don't need to bacteria need Anchorman see and you need to set of bacteria. That's what you need those to have a bigger impact on your gut than anything else. So what you see over time is declining levels of the fit of bacteria declining levels.

[00:27:19] They grow Mantia are going to create issues in the gut that spawn all these problems that we're talking about here. Spawn issues with energy production and it all kind of works together May. So this is this is yeah. This is amazing because I remember when I first started to study human breast milk.

[00:27:42] For the production of Thrive and there's a very very high amount of bifidobacteria fed to babies through breast milk a lot a lot a lot. It's the predominant. It's been a dominant microbe of a probiotic nature in breast milk. [00:28:00] Well, it's the. It's the first bacteria that you get is a kid, and there's a church on a book where I destroy the idea of lactose intolerance just annihilate.

[00:28:09] It just completely mistaken. And when you're a baby your first bacteria comes from Mother's breast milk and that bacteria is so so endemic to. Your immune system and establishing your immune system establishing ability to digest carbs establishing energy production within your body that as you age you lose percentage points about every year and then with that you can you sort of can you can literally map 121 decreases in optimal physiology with that load decreases in energy production decreases in cognition onset of bacon festival caught up in a while, I won't go into this but.

[00:28:53] Long story short my little brother with Down syndrome and he came down with Parkinson's [00:29:00] about a year and a half ago, and I hadn't down recently for a week and it took me one week and he went from being a kind of a catatonic stupor and shaking two hundred percent 100% asymptomatic in seven days seven days.

[00:29:18] I can't document I got on so I can show it to you. I'll send you a clip after this. Okay? I I want to I want to hold the audience through because while I want to know what you did for him on the other side of the break because I have to I have to take a selfish profit break here and the best way to hold everybody through that is I we want to hear what you did for him on the other side of the break, okay?

[00:29:41] If you want to learn more about Joel green, you can go to his website vep nutrition.com. You can learn how he eats and how he teaches his clients to eat and it will help you age better to stay tuned. We'll be right back. We're all waiting at the edge of our seats to here. Joel green. [00:30:00] Tell us not only about.

[00:30:02] That your brother you said, right? This is your kid, brother. That you are yeah and but also to talk about how to fix the problem of diminishing NAD and and the reality is not diminishing NAD. I don't know what to say fix the problem of the sick aging phenotype. That's the real issue here, but it's so what did you do with him?

[00:30:25] What did you do? Well, so we background my brother is a couple years younger than me. I'm 54. He's 52 and I picked him up and he he really gone downhill just I was shocked like he had trouble standing. I took a little too convenient store to go to the bathroom and he collapsed just from trying to walk 20 yards because the walk that far.

[00:30:49] And he was just he was shaking a lot his old personality was gone. He was kind of really just in a stupor most of the time like he was holding his old self and it was really [00:31:00] shocking. So I actually started recording a video every day and so kind of big picture and a lot of a lot of disease states are in essence age-related nutritional deficiencies where nutritional deficiencies overtime.

[00:31:18] And then you create severe intractable problems. You want to get a show I think a couple of years ago on on indigenous cultures. Yeah. I'm talking about the gaps and how vegans people done vegan for you know, 30 40 years. They're really foggy get you got problems that can't be fixed only so strictly got some sickly.

[00:31:38] Yes. Yes. SEC so so with Parkinson's in his case, you actually see some very similar things. So with Parkinson's principally you have a number of things going on but one of the things you have going on is is the field of bacteria levels get so low that B vitamin production just craters and then the brain doesn't really work and energy production doesn't really work and when you [00:32:00] study the body What You Come Away with an understanding that the production of energy.

[00:32:03] Is it the core of everything that we do because it's synonymous with the way information transmits. And so if you can't produce energy, you can't transmit signal you can't bring it so big picture with him was oh and he was sleeping. Maybe five hours a night three 8907334 hours a night. So first thing with him was to was to get his testosterone levels up to get his sleep levels up and then to get his B vitamin production up and just completely reconstitute his got was kind of the big picture.

[00:32:35] So he had a very strong nighttime regimen where I had them all in some very high doses of Vitamin D along with like VMA and. Bunch

[00:32:53] of

[00:32:57] other things to [00:33:00] to get it testosterone, so. I had them on BMI melatonin cough syrup. Like you know when you get to that point, yeah, you got your trying to rescue a person. So the things that you used to have to be very very robust and response. So you just want him to sleep eight hours. You don't care like if it's yeah because you're not gonna do it, but you're not doing it long term.

[00:33:26] Pregnant right when you're when you're when you're highly symptomatic like that, like it doesn't matter how you get the intended target just get it. So the other thing too was really focusing on rapidly recolonize in his guide. So I had him on a number of different things to do that. I think I'll talk about another shows like, you know calling a saccharides that see no powders had them on bunch bunch of things like that.

[00:33:52] And I was I was hitting on kind of in. Ones like at bedtime and then what about what about just Frank? What about [00:34:00] just Frank bifid? Oh probiotic supplementation, you know large doses with some Prebiotic fiber to make sure that it takes root. Yeah, you didn't want to supplement probiotics never only take them as supplements most for the most part because there's just an epidemic of sibo right now.

[00:34:19] Yeah, I gave I gave it to myself. I gave look I finally got over it by running LL 3 7 I did a show about this but I had such bad sibo that I woke would wake up in the morning bloated before I'd even eat and it and I can tell you where it was from. I would I was eating Quest protein bars all day long and I was taking one trillion with the T CF use of lactic acid bacteria predominant lactic acid bacteria in vsl.

[00:34:48] Number three. I was taking to 450 billion cfus every single day two of them for a year I gave myself see. I gave it to myself. [00:35:00] Well, it's a common story. You heard across the board nowadays and what happened is in probably late early 2012-13 14 the idea of the gut started trickling down to the mainstream.

[00:35:14] And so then next thing you know that I got grown every corner and you have everybody telling you to take probiotics, but they had no idea they'd never done it long enough so that you know what the real problem is if you take a probiotic. It's going to take seed as soon as possible to can't do that in your stomach because there's too much acid.

[00:35:32] So the first place it goes is the is the small intestine. I mean it was that the largest I was going to confuse the small intestine and and it just takes up space there and it stays there and you don't want it there. You want to down further you want to down closer to the. The problem with probiotics supplementation is we just can't control where they open up.

[00:35:52] Yeah and good bacteria in the wrong place is not just bad its horrifically bad and it's very tough to get rid of so, they're gonna happen [00:36:00] Democrat now people running around with sibo been taking probiotics and again in the book. I kind of. Make a chapter of a half a chapter on this topic of food has properties that cannot be replicated by sites things like probiotics and prebiotics.

[00:36:18] You cannot their physical properties to food. So it takes us into a different area, which is understanding not just the food but also the sequence the timing and combinations all those things and all those things together can have effects that are more powerful than guns much more common. So with my brother I got him sleeping.

[00:36:36] He wasn't sleeping for two sleeping 12 to 16 hours a night that was huge. And then the the another piece of that too was that I got him. I got him on a few things to help the production of energy. So I got some black licorice which really helps mineral mobilization and so work [00:37:00] synergistically with.

[00:37:01] With all of the rapidly colonization of the Philadelphia area. So there's this is a quick sort of litmus test. I give them a book about like how do you know when your guts in good shape and the simple test is it's just a snowing or poop the poop smells. Rancid. You're getting bad. What if it doesn't smell you got some fantastic.

[00:37:22] Right also that first day I nearly threw up and it was bad. But I gave you a video. Actually I actually looked at it. He was that was on day 5 you said right there for ya. Think it was he was he was he was moving so much faster that he didn't even want help from who's that your sister that was trying to help him or who wasn't all that much.

[00:37:47] That's a Christy. Oh, I didn't recognize her. I didn't say I just saw a glimpse at the side. Like he was like no leave me alone. I got this i got this head. He was walking on his own. I know. Well he thought he would it's kind of that thing when you when you been sick [00:38:00] and you feel healed and you want to get out and run.

[00:38:02] So here he literally like running. He's running into the convenience store. He's running into it. It's amazing. Yeah. He couldn't even stand like a few days earlier. So. So that and then I had them on some very specific sequences of foods you brought up great group, which is something I've been doing for a number of years in conjunction with green banana on certain days targeted towards Aunt Kay activation.

[00:38:28] When Adam on patterns like that and then on top of all that stuff, I made him walk up and down stairs. So so exercise in conjunction with empty activation is extremely powerful if you do it at the right time of day and so he one story short by Friday seven his boat. I'm going to send you this picture right now and you can you can it just says it he wasn't being catatonic and lethargic and just sort of like, you know, just.

[00:38:56] Not even himself to his personality was [00:39:00] just completely restore. The Tremors were 100% gone. No Tremors and I had him walking up and down like a pretty steep flight of stairs like six seven times a day. So he was you know, that's just a testament to the power of what is possible. In fact, I'm going to want to be comes out.

[00:39:18] I'm going to make the protocol available for practitioners who want to implement in their practice. And because I think that no modern medicine fantastic and thank God we have it. But there's there's a lot of I've personally seen how results can be. Incredible results can be had in very short periods of time that you don't think are possible but they are possible right now.

[00:39:43] How do how does the someone increase the population of bifidobacteria in the right areas of the gut? How do you do it? So let's get them through a topic in my book, which I'm sorry. I'm a sound like a shell. No. No. No, I [00:40:00] got it. I got it. Because understanding that we've been in this sort of the entire Marketplace entire industry is sort of this very remedial level of just focusing on the what what's the thing, you know, and it's sort of this black white good or bad way of thinking about things but that's it doesn't there's no power in that and in fact, it's very limiting don't you understand that tiny matter?

[00:40:27] Like like what would I all creatures of the time you do something that others and the way you do something matters and when you combine those three things you find what wine and out together you can get to incredibly powerful results. So that's kind of the big picture of getting the pseudo bacteria up in him.

[00:40:42] So, but just kind of highlight. Morning is sort of a very important time for the correction of that specific bacteria and during morning. The preference is for certain types of fruits that act as substrate for fito. So bananas one dark phenols are [00:41:00] one grapefruit is not directly a substrate but it works in conjunction with other food synergistically to activate amp K.

[00:41:08] And then what you get is later on you'll get butyrate production and butyrate production without calculation while you're sleeping. Very good thing and then later in the day you want to sort of shift your preference of food? So you want to move towards more resistant starch has a favorite of mine is garbanzo beans and this isn't a whole topic which we could do another show on which is fiber and I know there's a lot of vitriol and back and forth between carnivore in Quito and all this stuff that's being said nowadays, but that's probably another topic.

[00:41:37] I don't want to get into today right in terms of optimal production of that. You want to want to lean towards towards those things. And then you get into the evil. You want to lean a little bit more towards things that are cellulose and hemicellulose cruciferous vegetables typically raw in the state, but not too much to start with what will happen [00:42:00] is if you get if you get too much production of the video, you won't sleep if you kind of have to feather it in a little bit, right?

[00:42:09] Interesting sleep is so you give the federal all this food and then what about when you want to go to sleep, you know, there's a little too soon. Sort of the bifida babies in your got running around all yay. Right, right, right and they're making all these B vitamins and it's right when you're trying to sleep.

[00:42:28] And in fact as an experiment that I get people where I give you some very specific patterns and just as a test to show you that you won't sleep and it's okay to eat this in the sequencing whatever happens tonight and the energy direction is so high you can't sleep you have to have costs are for something next to you to get sleep.

[00:42:44] If you do that, right? It's interesting because I remember reading a study. A couple years ago about IB IBS irritable bowel syndrome also, but also with inflammatory bowel disease bowel disease and they find a disc bio they'd [00:43:00] find a much lower population of bifidobacteria in all those people and it leads to some sort of distortion in the mucosal lining that leads to the the wall of the intestines being attacked.

[00:43:15] It's really interesting. You know, I haven't that you know, there's bifidobacteria in thrive in my protein powder because there was bifida high amounts of bifidobacterium mother's milk. So do you think taking a bifidobacteria that's mixed in with a protein powders the same thing as supplementing it's you know, you shouldn't do it.

[00:43:32] That is a fascinating question. I don't think that I've studied that one enough to really know the answer to it. I think that's much closer to how. Things are intended to be so there are very unique and very special sugars in mother's milk that very unique and very specific strains of acid bacteria have an affinity for and your ability to handle Dairy comes from those things, right?

[00:43:59] I [00:44:00] just I don't know what that's all I can tell you when I took your protein. I was like Whoa, man, I think I could definitely feel the pump in it. Well, in fact, in fact, the research showed that the reason that there's sugar and breast milk is not for the baby but for the bacteria. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:44:18] You said something. You said something actually very interesting. It's something I talked about. Which is if you so when you look at that look at the job that the interface layer of the gut is tasked with which is there's a bunch of bacteria their trillions and you have to allow some bacteria to be there because there are what are called commensal there.

[00:44:45] They are Cindy outs there there an official we need them, but then there are pathogens that are too. So the the cut layer has to actively select which to let in or not what incident which [00:45:00] which to allow Thrive and which to outright which is sequester creates biofilms to sequester the bad ones. So so this this is a just it's a fascinating topic and what it gets to is the essentiality of butyrate because butyrate essentially so you have the purple lamina.

[00:45:21] Underneath the of Eli in the intestines and the greatest cell population in that juncture are macrophages. So immune cells dominate just below the V light and makes sense if you think about it. So so you've got the vi there and they exist in the in the top mucosal layer. So it's kind of like a think of a kelp forest.

[00:45:42] Okay, like a shallow kelp forest. We have all kinds of fish swimming around in there. Some of them are sharks. Some of them are tuna. We want the tuna. We don't necessarily want the Sharks and you have this sort of layer below that which is. Connected to [00:46:00] allowing things in the body. So if a pathogen penetrates the Vela gets into the bloodstream on it's got a hit a wall somewhere of defense and that wall is just below that in feel lamia and so macrophages in the lamia need a signal mechanism to know who killed her to leave alone.

[00:46:19] It's all right, and I said the mechanism is butyrate so butyrate. Is sort of hypo depolarizing for macrophages. It's tears macrophage populations. And that's why butyrate is so essential to production are so essential to health so essential to immunity and and the. The reason to feel that Syria is so important is that the cross being reactions necessary to feed the other butyrate producers coming from principally facility area interesting Joe.

[00:46:52] I know you have a you have a hard break you have to leave exactly on the hour. So sit tight just a second. Let me just run some commercials. I'll be right back with [00:47:00] you. Okay, stay tuned everybody Joel. I know everybody wants you to ask you this next question. Why can't we get the book soon? I decided it up man.

[00:47:14] Just just kind of putting putting the prettiest you like finishing touches on it and. I wish I could push it out faster. I tried I literally wrote itself. I thought I was going to ride in six months and just carry on for years later like going will you first well, every time you hit something you go.

[00:47:30] I got explain that. Well now I got a deal because every time you get to something that's critical you kind of have to build the back story around it then so I know what it's like that's why I've never written a book. What's interesting too in this age is when I first started writing the book was the first chapter.

[00:47:46] I went to write was sort of on a coffee and things like that and wasn't really in the public Consciousness that time and then because of podcasts everything was so fast. And now talk of G is sort of bubbling out. There's a something people talk about [00:48:00] and so. I've had also kind of adapt what the marketplace is doing in that sense.

[00:48:07] And because it's just what I needed to write a book because there was a there was a sort of a paradigm shift that I thought was necessary and it really can't do that in any other format than a book and then you know later on you can you can expound on it? You know, wait wait, I just found the study that shows that whey protein and of itself is a strong Prebiotic for the to feed an increase bifidobacterium.

[00:48:35] Any like that? Well sure. Well dairy products in general are so that gets into a whole other show but long story short there has been vilified and you have this sort of polarized thinking about. Gary that particular whey protein by certain crowd is into things like the way you think that's the mechanism by which you can learn new things and [00:49:00] when you get polarized and band a reason and you can't learn new things, so we're going to see a big shift here coming very soon in terms of the thinking on things like Dairy and things like whey protein and lift up look at them more functional tools that you know are very useful.

[00:49:14] For things like fat loss or preventing weight regain or good good as good as sort of an antioxidant that right, right I so we're going to have to do another show obviously because there's a lot of things that you talked about that I want to do a little deeper dive so we'll plan it and I just watched the video of your brother.

[00:49:34] I mean, it's amazing. It's amazing in such a short time and you're right the gut and sleep probably of the toast two most important things. To restoring health they really are and they and they play off each other and they play off each other because when you sleep is when your gut prunes the fluoride program, you know, does it say it's pruning it's when it works on stuff.

[00:49:56] I'm certified about cd38 and [00:50:00] kind of went wild all over the landscape. But what I would say just to put a bow and everything is probably the highest so nicotinamide driver side and making them outside Mount of nucleotides are great products. You know, I think you probably should be on them or some variant, but they're not the only way to repeat NAD and we're pleading NAD by itself isn't.

[00:50:20] Isn't the big picture there's a lot to it. And if you were going to start with any one or two areas start with sleeps, let's start with inflammation because those are things that are driving everything else. You know what I just thought of it again and analogy, right? So we look at NAD we look at this one thing kind of like the gas pedal you said right and we just assume that that's the important thing but we real up we forget that the production of it probably has a role in these benefits that we're looking for.

[00:50:48] And there's a long line in the production of something. It's like looking at sneakers that are worn out and saying oh. If I have some spy sneakers that are worn out, I'll be lean know you've got to run in those sneakers [00:51:00] until they wear out and that's how you're going to get lean. So the you know, we and this is the pharmaceutical model.

[00:51:07] They've led us to believe that this one thing and that one thing and this one thing and none of its ever panned out. Nobody's nobody's no one is going to live to be a hundred twenty just because they're taking NAD. I'm sorry. It's all a lie Dola. It's all a lie. Yeah, it's just it's it's marketing.

[00:51:27] Its hype. It's not that it's not even a good supplement. I think that they probably are but it's it's a skewed picture. It's not it's not going to you know, you we don't we will not have people 40 years from now going. The reason I lived another 40 years is because NAD, so it's just it's just I don't know.

[00:51:43] It's so funny, but we want to believe in it. We humans we are endowed with magical thinking. I don't think dear have I don't think a bear is have it? I don't think dogs have it but humans. I look Joel. Thanks for being here today, brother. And I think [00:52:00] I and that's it for today. We'll see you tomorrow with more superhuman radio.

[00:52:03] Thank you for listening.