[00:00:00] [00:00:00] Carl Lanore: [00:00:00] I swear I am definitely a monkey because whenever I see my face on camera, I smile at it like oh look, it's me. I'll never get used to this mug try living with it. Anyway, I let me get in the center Where I Belong we have a really good and fascinating discussion today about intermittent fasting the ketogenic diet evolutionary origins of this style of eating the gifts of metabolic flexibility that so many people crap on every day by.

[00:00:29] Eating the way they do and I'm really excited about having my guest on the show today. His name is seem land. How you doing?

[00:00:36] Siim Land: [00:00:36] Siim?

[00:00:36] Doing great. Cool. Thanks for organizing the show

[00:00:39] Carl Lanore: [00:00:39] ya what country you and I forgot to ask you that.

[00:00:42] Siim Land: [00:00:42] I'm from Estonia. Okay, which is just underneath the Finland in northeastern Europe.

[00:00:47] Carl Lanore: [00:00:47] Okay. Okay. Is there an obesity problem there?

[00:00:52] Siim Land: [00:00:52] Well, I would say that not really that most of the people are somewhat more Rural and I'd like the a [00:01:36] lot of the origins are coming from like a country Countryside and they do stay relatively fit and healthy throughout their entire adulthood, but I would say that.

[00:01:08] We still have like some of the common health problems that in the rest of the western world, like heart disease some cancer diabetes Etc. So we're not completely clear, but I think it's definitely better than in countries like the UK or the u.s. Yeah.

[00:01:22] Carl Lanore: [00:01:22] Yeah. I'm sure it is. So I want to I want to emphasize something today on this discussion.

[00:01:27] It's funny. So I was looking at all shows. I did my first show on intermittent fasting in 2008 with dr. Mark Makar. He was the first doctor to do both studies on rodents and then humans and the human study he had to do in Mexico. They couldn't get an IRB I think for it here in the United States. I forget the whole story, but he did it in New Mexico City Mexico and they actually did it with humans.

[00:01:55] They showed that if they trained fasted in the morning. [00:02:36] Sensitivity changed body fat change much faster than the control group which was doing all the same things but having a meal in the morning and not observing a 16-hour fasting when they'll be for training and I have to say this because it just pisses me off.

[00:02:17] I just found the guy who is very popular in the intermittent fasting community and he posted a link to my show and had the nerve to say if you can. If you can this is a great show. He has great questions. If you can make it through the horrible commercials. I just I mean, you know, that's how I pay the bills.

[00:02:37] But anyway, so I'm really happy to have you on the show as opposed to somebody like that. You know, I'll tell you why I've read your work. I've looked at some of your YouTube by the way, your YouTube channel is amazing. People don't know about youtube.com folds of Sim siim land Lan di get there.

[00:02:57] It's such a valuable page, but I think I [00:03:36] already let you know. I kind of let the cat out of the bag why I think that you and your opinions about diet are more important than anybody else in this space about intermittent fasting and ketosis. Because your background is anthropology you understand Evolution you studied Evolution.

[00:03:18] So explain to me coming from an anthropological background and being introduced to dietary regimen. The light bulb had to go off in your head when you look at diets and go that's not appropriate for humans. But this is am I right?

[00:03:34] Siim Land: [00:03:34] Yeah well to a certain extent definitely like I've been very curious about human evolution and hunter-gatherers ever since like I was a child and what part of the reason I went to get a degree in anthropology was to kind of learn about hunter-gatherer way of living and kind of romantic.

[00:03:52] I think it's myself a little bit of, you know wanting to go out with a try. Sand trying to survive in nature and understanding hold who [00:04:36] humans adapt to let's say physiological stressors and environmental stressors, especially like. How do we gather food and how do you hunt animals and how do you enter things like the cold?

[00:04:10] So, you know a lot of it had to do with just wanting to be curious about humans, but also like wanting to improve my own body composition and health in general. So I think it was a combination of doing like some you know, as a key is in high school lifting weights and doing bodybuilding and we're being very curious about history and human involvement.

[00:04:33] So yeah, I would say that. Let's when it comes to the standard way of eating then it's definitely very deviant in nature. And you don't really see any other species living in such a way. You know, you might you might think that it's common sense or it makes the perfect sense for people to doing it to do intermittent fasting and to not be eating like a three Square meals a day of a way of eating but when you look at most of the society or the.

[00:04:59] Then [00:05:36] it's far from common sense. Like people actually are free to fasting and there, you know afraid that if they skip their meals then the body's going get going into a starvation mode or they're going to lose their muscle. So it's very. It's very conflicted with what you see in nature. And I just it doesn't like really make a lot of sense when it comes to like actual the way of you know humans were supposed to survive survive for ice ages and survive for long periods of time without eating.

[00:05:29] Carl Lanore: [00:05:29] So let's I want to talk about two things real quick. So first of all, you're right people equate hunger to famine today. Okay, and I there's some really intelligent people out there that when we talked about intermittent fasting which by the way, I don't even like to use the term intermittent fasting anymore because it it attracts an almost Zealot like response from people II prefer a more ancestral meal frequency pattern right?

[00:05:59] We didn't have [00:06:36] refrigerators and cupboards. We could probably could have some dried fruits and nuts for the morning, but we started today looking for a food. And spent most of our day Gathering and chewing to get the nutrition we needed but with that being said. When we when we start to look at some dietary protocols that people think are healthy today.

[00:06:24] There are extremists in all these groups, you know, there's the people out there who say oh just eat fat just eat fat OB keto eat fat then the other extreme is the vegan diet. So in your. Studies from an anthropological standpoint because I noticed you're not a zealot. You're not a zealot at all in your studies of anthropological dietary templates that would have been influenced by availability and scarcity.

[00:06:54] Can you tell us real quick? The vegan diet is inappropriate long-term die for human.

[00:07:36] [00:07:01] Siim Land: [00:07:01] Well, I would say that first of all, there are no real vegan Societies in nature and no hunter-gatherer groups as well. So you don't you wouldn't be able to sustain a completely vegan diet in nature because plants themselves have less less calories.

[00:07:17] They're less nutrient dense. They're harder to kind of gather those that that sort of energy from it and the plants themselves in nature. They aren't the same as they are in modern society. So to say the fruit is very bitter and it has a lot of more fiber and more seeds were whereas the fruit that you see in supermarkets is kind of cultivated and that, you know genetically engineered to have a lot of more sugar and fructose and more energy and less fiber so you wouldn't be able to pull it off.

[00:07:45] In like a natural environment and there are a lot of anthropological examples of you know, societies going going into like Great Lengths of making sure that they get some form of animal Foods whether that be like some climbs or literally like. [00:08:36] Some mountainous tribes, they would travel, you know thousands or hundreds of kilometers downhill to gather the clams just to get like the essential fatty acids and protein that you that you don't get from the mountains.

[00:08:12] So yeah, there are many examples of like more plant-based societies like the guitar bands in Papua New Guinea. They eat like 70% carbs, but they still eat like fish and they their primary plant place, but they still have like animals in there.

[00:08:28] Carl Lanore: [00:08:28] And I've been saying for at least eight or nine years on this show from articles that I had written and when I wrote what and again when I read the book The Story of the human body by dr.

[00:08:39] Daniel Lieberman who has been a guest on the show that Australia Pittacus robustus was our last vegan ancestor. It had a very short life span. It had a giant. It had a huge jaw and it spent all of its waking hours finding and chewing twigs and stuff like that. And then [00:09:36] Australopithecus grass seal was the first one to start to find Forage and find bones and start eating bone marrow and animals that had found.

[00:09:11] However, it found them and it's gut got smaller its brain got bigger and its lifespan increased and so to me. That ended up itself is evidence that we actually from an evolutionary perspective our trajectory change and our body changed. Once we introduced animal protein now, I've been telling that story on this show for a long time, but I've been known to get things wrong.

[00:09:39] So as an anthropologist is that an accurate assessment that I just gave.

[00:09:43] Siim Land: [00:09:43] Yeah, like in general there is like a correlation between increased brain size together with like increased hunting activities and increased animal based nutrition in the diet. But at the same time, I think it's almost like a chicken and an egg type of problem.

[00:10:36] [00:10:00] So the say that was it the fact that humans got access to more nutrient-dense foods that that sprouted their grain growth, or was it more the fact that they were doing? Activities that required more brain activity and more cognition such as hunting and trapping and making Nets and everything else related like social cooperation is also very affected by hunting you have to like work in a group which in turn I would I would I would see you know think that it's both like both of them have a huge impact and I think it's it's not that.

[00:10:33] That humans develop their big brains because of eating meat it was more of like a combination of many things and part of like maybe cooking had to as well and I think like probably the first the first let's say, Times where the brain started to grow in humans Wars around when humans started to beat the scavenge like these carcasses actually, so that was the so here.

[00:10:56] So humans shouldn't be thought of as like Hunters. They're more like scavengers ever [00:11:36] simply breaking down bones Gathering bone marrow, eating the brains and eating the eyeballs and all the organs from the dead animals on the savanna. So we're more like a scavenger. So kind of

[00:11:10] Carl Lanore: [00:11:10] like that. Well, what kind of like the catfish of the land, you know catfish bait the other other fishes poop anything that makes it.

[00:11:17] They just eat it and he would kind of like the catfish of the land when you

[00:11:21] Siim Land: [00:11:21] think about it every day.

[00:11:22] Carl Lanore: [00:11:22] So, okay. So let's talk about some of the work that you've done and that you promote a lot of people are afraid of intermittent fasting because they fear that they won't build muscle. But the reality is that fasting triggers our top pudgy and autopsy G actually influences positively protein synthesis, right?

[00:11:47] Siim Land: [00:11:47] Yeah, well for sure, like first of all, what determines muscle growth he's like the daily balance between protein synthesis and muscle protein breakdown. So you can definitely do some form of intermittent fasting [00:12:36] and eat your food within a smaller time frame as long as you still achieve a positive net balance of over positive muscle protein synthesis.

[00:12:08] So to say so the reason why someone may be losing muscle he's because of they're either not consuming enough protein. Or they're just being to catabolic during the day by doing some some crazy high intensity cardio or just just lacking nutrient density in the diet or being even like under adapted to fasting so to say so it is definitely true that if you are not used to fasting then you will by default be slightly more catabolic and you will be more prone to losing muscle because your body isn't used to it and the way you cannot deal with that or the way you overcome it is by becoming more fat adapted and that's that's.

[00:12:45] The kind of the ideas of eating somewhat of a moderate carbohydrates or like a semi ketogenic or some form of investing those things that all promote your body's ability to, you know be fat adapted and use your [00:13:36] use your own body fat during times where you're not actually reading but I thought when it comes the topology no topology.

[00:13:05] Also, I'm not sure exactly how it could potentially like promote muscle growth directly, but it does help against muscle catabolism, so you. But Common Sense would say again that because autophagy is this process where you're breaking down old cells and proteins. Then that's gonna lead to muscle loss.

[00:13:24] But you know research actually shows that Itachi helps to protect against the age where a age-related muscle sarcopenia and muscle loss. So probably the reason has to do again with this increased fat adaptation and the body's ability to be more efficient with a burning the fuel that it already has

[00:13:41] Carl Lanore: [00:13:41] though the I did a show about basil or topology and the pulses of autopsy and how that influences protein synthesis and the takeaway from the interview that the scientist had on was that basil otology.

[00:13:56] What's going on in the background all the time has an [00:14:36] influence. Beneficial and positive influence on building more muscle and the takeaway of this the research was basically something you just touched on and that is. Your muscles are not going to build efficiently. If there's a lot of metabolic debris just laying around if a lot of the lot of the muscle fibers that are breaking down so, you know, it's like what we're going what's going on right now in California in Los Angeles, you know, if you don't pick up the garbage often enough everything fasters everything rots and everything gets bad.

[00:14:26] So while topology by getting rid of that metabolic debris allows the muscles to rebuild more efficiently that was that was the takeaway of the study, but it's really interesting because most people would think. That autopsy G is a component of catabolism which in theory it is to a certain degree.

[00:14:44] So how could that influence muscles been officially, but it does is it does if there's a gentle balance there that the body needs to maintain?

[00:14:51] Siim Land: [00:14:51] Yeah, and of course there's also the the overlooked aspect of actually. You know leveraging the positive sides of being [00:15:36] catabolic. So of course like professional bodybuilders are always trying to be as anabolic as possible because they want to build muscle but when it comes to like regular people who aren't on anabolic steroids or for someone who doesn't have like huge professional goals with bodybuilding then for them.

[00:15:16] The the periods being spent in a catabolic State can actually be positive because it makes the body more sensitive towards things like carbohydrates. It's actually deplete the glycogen which in turn makes the body more efficient able to metabolize carbohydrates. It also makes you more insulin sensitive and there's already I would imagine there's also this thing called like mtor sensitivity which which which directly isn't like an actual thing but mtor is the fuel.

[00:15:45] Answer or the master switch that promotes anabolism and muscle growth and is going to grow everything in the body all the cells and all the nerves and bones. So if you're fasting then your mtor is low and if you're eating like if you're eating like a bunch of protein and carbs [00:16:36] then enter is going to rise.

[00:16:01] So with the period of fasting you're suppressing mtor, but afterwards when you break the fast and you consume like adequate nutrition, then that causes like this rebound effects or a super competition where your body is. Okay. We were fasting we were, you know under huge energy stress and you know, they're actually compensate for that or adapt to it pertinent to make sure that we don't suffer in the future.

[00:16:23] We have to kind of make sure that we actually get stronger. So your body would want to pack on muscle more easily because of that as well.

[00:16:29] Carl Lanore: [00:16:29] So over 14 years. I've talked about so many different topics and what I've noticed the commonality in biology and Physiology is that the body responds to scarcity better than that it responds to abundance.

[00:16:48] So if you like, okay, let's just take something completely off topic, right if you take fish oil everyday or you eat salmon every day, then the [00:17:36] body will not store as much DHA because after a week of this the body goes, oh, I don't have to store it. We have an everyday so it actually will start using it to a higher degree as a substrate for energy.

[00:17:13] But if you take a bolus of DHA. On Monday and then not again until Thursday and then the body stores almost all of the DHA because it's it assumes that there's a level of scarcity in the environment and it says. I have to prioritize what I do with this the most important thing I could do with it is store it for later use for inflammatory response and so on and to build brain tissue, but if it gets it every day, it becomes wasteful I see this in growth hormone Administration children with idiopathic short stature when they get the same weekly dose of growth hormone, but equal amounts day in and day out they don't grow nearly as well.

[00:17:52] Nearly as fast as if they get that same weekly amount but in a haphazard dosing where maybe they only get one [00:18:36] shot this week the whole thing 50/50 now use the next week they get seven I use in seven hours, but the people had to get in the same to IU's a day. They don't grow as fast so the body responds to scarcity and in the words of Ron Penna a very good friend of mine when it comes to.

[00:18:17] What's more important is what your take quite often. What's more important is what you're taking out of your diet, then what you're adding in? And so this also is kind of like a an end cap for this discussion on scarcity. So I agree with you. Yeah, it's interesting phenomenon. So talk to me about something else.

[00:18:32] So you've been fasting for seven years. Now you and I are probably fasting around the same time. Let's say and I have gone through periods where I have only eaten one meal a day you're doing that right now, right?

[00:18:44] Siim Land: [00:18:44] Yeah at the moment. I've been doing one meal a day for about like 3324 years. It's not like it's not like very strict or one meal a day.

[00:18:52] It's more like if you heard about the warrior that is more like along the lines of that like within 4 hours 4 to 2 hours [00:19:36] something like that. Usually.

[00:19:01] Carl Lanore: [00:19:01] A window of time to eat.

[00:19:03] Siim Land: [00:19:03] Yeah,

[00:19:04] Carl Lanore: [00:19:04] so do you feel that is a much more beneficial approach from a Health and Longevity standpoint not set necessarily a building muscle standpoint, but a Health and Longevity standpoint as long as you hit all of the calories you need for the day and all of your protein you need for the.

[00:19:22] Siim Land: [00:19:22] Yeah, I do feel like a lot better in terms of my daily energy levels. There's no like swings. There's no ups and downs. It's very stable and I haven't noticed like a negative side effect in muscle growth either. So I think. As you get used to it or like, you know, you can apply the same principle that you just talked about that the more often your body gets exposed to something the more efficient it gets that it or in a sense that it adapts to it better.

[00:19:50] So you don't necessarily want to be taking like a bunch of supplements or multivitamins all the time, but when it comes to training then in a sense, it's almost the opposite. So if you are used to [00:20:36] training more like in a fasted State and eating one meal a day. Then it also like body adapts to it in a positive way and it becomes less of a stress stir so in turn I haven't noticed like any any significant difference between eating like two to three meals a day versus one meal a day as long as I still hit my daily protein requirements and other calories

[00:20:20] Carl Lanore: [00:20:20] and and it's got to be super convenient, right?

[00:20:22] You see you have you know, like people who have to I have to eat three times a day or have to eat five times a day. It's like I just have to eat once a day. That is so convenient for life in general.

[00:20:31] Siim Land: [00:20:31] Yeah, yeah it is. It's a huge productivity hack in the sense that I'm not really I'm not even thinking about food during the day and I don't get like the food coma or and eat and even when I do eat then like I eat it I'm finished with it.

[00:20:45] And that's it in a sense. I don't have like additional cravings for something more or some. I don't know why I don't want to you know, go for like additional snacks or something.

[00:20:54] Carl Lanore: [00:20:54] So since since insulin. Is diurnal the body [00:21:36] seems to like to produce more of it later in the day less of it in the morning and we're not going to get into the whole hormonal milu relationship there but since insulin seems to be higher in the later day, is it better to time your meal?

[00:21:16] Earlier in the day and stay away from too much starches. So that your body doesn't come too far out of that metabolic flexibility Zone where it's likes ketones, but you can get a little carbs and you too.

[00:21:31] Siim Land: [00:21:31] I think that that's depends a lot on the individual and what are they like overall energy balance?

[00:21:38] So cord insulin does have like some circadian rhythm aspect to it with your being more insulin sensitive in the morning and you would be able to shuttle more carbs into the muscles or other storage deposits more easily with less insulin, but you know whether or not you should eat at that time depends again like what your goals and what's your conditions [00:22:36] like?

[00:22:00] I wouldn't recommend if like if you're training later in the day, then I wouldn't recommend you to eat earlier in the day because I would still in most cases. It's still better to be from the from the perspective of nutrient partitioning and body composition. Then it's always better to be eating around your workouts as to make sure that the color is you do eat or the carbs.

[00:22:20] They would be used appropriately for the workout or for recovery. And I think like it doesn't really matter whether or not you eat earlier or later in the day. As long as those calories are our own the workout. So there would be always much bitterly used because you're always most you're always more insulin sensitive after the workout.

[00:22:37] Even if it's later in the day versus versus in the morning despite the fact that it's earlier in the day and you're more insensitive.

[00:22:44] Carl Lanore: [00:22:44] So I did an experiment about five years ago, maybe four years ago where I started this protocol where I was just eating once a day and I was eating post-workout and I was my workouts were grueling.

[00:22:56] I I actually had my best leg day ever [00:23:36] in 20 plus years after a 72-hour fast. I wouldn't if you would have if I have you would have said to me what do you think? I would have said no, I'm just going to go in and go through the motions. Once I started training my brain just felt so good. You know, I was like almost euphoric but what I started doing was I started having 5,000 calories for my post workout meal and I ate it over the course of about two hours.

[00:23:25] And when I would leave the gym after training, I would take a shot of a grill and agate Agonist that actually made me so hungry seem I would I would actually eat right before the show and I'd eat again right after the show and I couldn't wait to eat again after the show. I would drink a whole gallon of raw milk.

[00:23:47] Unpasteurized milk, I would eat. I would have protein powders. I would have chicken all very very dense foods. No salads, you know, none of that stuff rice. I'd have rice [00:24:36] at have sweet potato. I got so strong over the course of a few months. That and it was so convenient because I was just eating once a day and then I would forget about it was all done.

[00:24:11] I actually am a try that again someday, but course but you bring a very good point out in a lot of your speaking and writing that if you're going to start to really really get deep into fasting you feel that it's Reckless to actually go in and try to crush it in the gym. Like

[00:24:32] Siim Land: [00:24:32] I would say that it's not always necessary in a sense that you people think that in order to like grow more muscle or burn fat.

[00:24:39] They need to like annihilate themselves at the gym and we're literally drink themselves to death almost worse in reality. You don't really need to hit failure or you don't need to like completely drain yourself as long as you still. Reach like a positive you reach the minimum effective dose. So I think that when it comes with if you're training already fasted, [00:25:36] then you have like less wiggle room in terms of how far you can push yourself because like it is true.

[00:25:06] Like if you are training in a catabolic State, then you're more prone to like lose muscle if you like overdo it. So I just think that first of all it's not going to be necessary. It's going to interfere with recovery and then it may also, you know lead to. Additional muscle loss of retraining.

[00:25:23] Yeah, if you don't have everything else dialed in then you're just overdoing it to a certain extent but there are some ways of like overcoming it or you know, what sidestepping it to a certain extent like if you were to be lets say consuming some form of like a protein shake doing the workout, even though you're fasting then that can mitigate a lot of the negative side effects of training in a fasted State like you're going to slow down or you're going to reduce the muscle catabolism.

[00:25:50] Because you get like the amino acids and the protein into your bloodstream. So that's one of the key factors that I've seen has been like very beneficial when I when I [00:26:36] would like to build muscle with fasting so I would consume like a small protein shake during the workout just so that the body could have like something to protect against the muscle catabolism.

[00:26:09] Carl Lanore: [00:26:09] So in fact

[00:26:10] Siim Land: [00:26:10] and and

[00:26:11] Carl Lanore: [00:26:11] go

[00:26:12] Siim Land: [00:26:12] and then I can like. If I get the protein shake then I can train as hard as I want in a sense because I have like the protective. I mean I said in there

[00:26:20] Carl Lanore: [00:26:20] and so the reality is that overtraining is more a function of Central and peripheral nervous system fatigue and degradation than it is muscle and so is there a way to protect the nervous system when you're fasting is that was that just the result of.

[00:26:41] Fasting often enough to where you switch into being fat adapted quickly.

[00:26:46] Siim Land: [00:26:46] I think yeah, it's a matter of adaptation. And how long do we doing it in a sense. So fasting is a stressor, but whether or not it becomes like a detrimental stressor or the oldest dresser that you know, [00:27:36] literally pushes you over then that's it that depends on like your level of adaptation and what kind of other stressors are there in your life.

[00:27:06] So if you are like drinking five cups of coffee, you have screaming kids in the minivan. You're not sleeping and you're doing Crossfit workouts hit. Accounts and your fasting 24 hours every day then. Yeah, it's gonna it's gonna cause some issues because you know, it's over stimulates you to a certain extent.

[00:27:21] But if you if you don't have those additional stressors, then you can follow me fast just fine and there's not going to be like any any negative side effects from that.

[00:27:31] Carl Lanore: [00:27:31] So we're going to take a break. But before we go into the break, I want to tell people back to book the book is called metabolic or topology.

[00:27:37] It's an amazing book and you can get it for free right people get it for free right at your website.

[00:27:42] Siim Land: [00:27:42] Yeah, my yeah, they can get the free copies they pay for the shipping and printing.

[00:27:48] Carl Lanore: [00:27:48] Yes, so that you can get the copy by going to seem land that's siim Lan d.com and you can get instant gratification and [00:28:36] fill up your brain if your brain has been fasted.

[00:28:03] It's probably wants to eat now the place to go for that is youtube.com forward slash. Seem as iím land and you will be very very happy that you did. We're going to take one quick commercial break. We'll be right back with more of the discussion. Please post your questions on Facebook. If you have questions for seam, and you're watching us Facebook live right now post them and I promise we will answer them as The Show Goes On stay tuned.

[00:28:27] We'll be right back. There's those pesky commercial breaks again. So. The funny thing is this guy is like he's supposed to be intermittent fasting Guru and he uses a link to my show and but then he says the show has horrible commercials like then don't even put the link up there to see you know, anyway can people fast too long you think is that like people are going on longer and longer fast now, you know, you have people on them.

[00:28:58] I'm into my 36 day [00:29:36] of fasting. It's like isn't there a too long when it comes to fast?

[00:29:04] Siim Land: [00:29:04] Well, yeah, definitely like anything can be bad if you overdo it. And especially when it comes to fasting then you know, it makes sense that you can't really fast forever because you eventually will die to malnutrition but you know how long you shoot fast depends again like what's your goals?

[00:29:22] And what's your situation again? So someone who is more physically active than they just can't fast for that long because their body needs more and nutrition and likewise someone who is sick. Let's say someone has maybe some sort of like a diabetes or even these malignancies then for them they can or they would they shoot or they could fast longer because their body would have benefit from the healing but even even so like I think.

[00:29:47] There is going to be like a point of diminishing returns after a while maybe a maybe like after a day five or day seven. You're not going to see like any. Any like you which metabolic benefits or you're not really seeing any [00:30:36] Improvement because your body again, it gets used to the fasting and then then it would be the smartest thing to do actually the break the fast then go go on for like another few days if you choose to go for longer, but I don't really see like a huge reason to be going for like this super long fast like ten day fast because they're gonna require for you to actually recover from them and you can do them all the time because they're more difficult.

[00:30:23] So imagine if you just fast it. 10 days of the year you're going to end up with only 10 days of fasting for that year, but if you fasted for like. 48 hours every week or every month then you're going to end up with a lot of more days of fasting like over 20 days of fasting just because you doing it more frequently.

[00:30:40] So I'm more of a proponent of that shorter, but more frequent fasts. They're gonna be better especially for people who are already somewhat healthy and they just fasting for general maintenance and ontology. I

[00:30:50] Carl Lanore: [00:30:50] as a rule I fast 16 hours every single day because I stopped eating at 6 p.m. And that I don't eat again until after I.

[00:30:59] And that's [00:31:36] usually anywhere from 15 to 17 hours of fasting and that's how I eat. That's that I don't think of if it's fascinating. I think well, I just stopped eating at 6. I sleep better when I stopped eating at. And doctor now, I'm going to forget his name, but the guy who wrote the the all end of Alzheimer who's been on my show a couple times.

[00:31:20] It's a shame that I can't think of his name right now, but he's come on my show and that's one of the things they do with Alzheimer's patients. They stop them eating three hours before bedtime and they make them fast for 16 hours. And they're that metabolic otology affects the brain it cleans up a lot of the metabolic debris in the in the brain.

[00:31:39] Siim Land: [00:31:39] Yeah, that's true. And Alzheimer's proteins are partly caused by insufficient autophagy and insufficient sleep. So if you're doing this form of timers good eating at it's called when you're fasting for 16 hours and you're stopping your food at least a few hours before bit. Then you're essentially allowing your body to tap into deeper [00:32:36] stages of sleep more efficiently during the.

[00:32:02] Because you're not digesting food and you're also you're also increasing the autophagy doing that process or during that time because most of the esophageal happens during sleep in conjunction with growth hormone and melatonin. So melatonin promotes actually autophagy release or autophagy Activation.

[00:32:19] So, you know, the Sleep aspect is probably much more critical when it comes to the gaining the benefits of a topology and fasting because if you're not sleeping or if you're still quality is that you know suboptimal then you're not. Gaining or the benefits from both growth hormone and topology. So yeah the idea of confining your food within a certain timeframe with time machine dealing is something I think should be like almost like a bare minimum.

[00:32:45] Everyone should do because there are some unique metabolic benefits to this form of confinement and that, you know, in addition to just the weight loss and better blood sugar regulation your also gaining. Like the atomic your benefits and the Circadian rhythm [00:33:36] benefits because you're more aligned with the day-night Cycles.

[00:33:04] Carl Lanore: [00:33:04] Dr. Dale bredesen. Excuse me. That's why I could think of dr. Dale bredesen is brilliant. Brilliant guy. He's actually reversed Alzheimer's and like 200 patients. Now, he's with you're like, yeah and you know what he does seem, he does all the things that we talked about in the physical culture community.

[00:33:22] Hormones sleep better nutrition, you know more of like an ancestral diet or Mediterranean diet fasting. It's just amazing. And these things will actually over time correct Alzheimer's disease better than drugs. So what about my topic? My top of G is is otology specifically of mitochondria mitochondria breakdown.

[00:33:46] They need to be replaced and cleaned up. They become metabolic the group debris and organelles and so on does is there any evidence that fasting affects my topic?

[00:33:55] Siim Land: [00:33:55] Yeah, it certainly does and my topology [00:34:36] is almost like a really critical part to slowing down aging so because as you get older or like the inevitable side effect of living itself, he's mitochondrial debris and you know mitochondria are the powerhouses of her cell or generators that produce energy and everything that you do requires energy like reading blinking exercising digesting food.

[00:34:23] Everything requires it. And that inevitably kind of wears down the mitochondria to a certain extent. So the more oxidative stress you experience the more you would benefit from things like a topology because the topology he's like the mitochondrial topology where or my topology is the form of mitochondrial autophagy where you are cleaning out the old and inflammatory mitochondria that just, you know, start to wreaking havoc and start spreading information

[00:34:50] Carl Lanore: [00:34:50] in two weeks.

[00:34:51] We're going to be doing a peptide show I do. So don't twice a month now call the pep talk when we investigate new emerging peptides [00:35:36] and we're going to be talking about a peptide called mot s small C mots see this is a mitochondrial peptide that reverses damaged mitochondria. It establishes healthy mitochondria, it builds a bigger mitochondria.

[00:35:21] It influences insulin sensitivity as a result. It does everything for real that that pqq was supposed to do it increases mitochondrial biogenesis and size. It increases the number of mitochondria per cell and we're gonna be doing a show about it's not even available yet. It will be available around the time we do the show, but we're going to turn my toe farming on its ear.

[00:35:45] With this particular show when we do it and that show will have commercials in it. Anybody who's doesn't like the commercials don't listen to it. So we have a question here and this comes from Jeff Clifton. He says, is there a video on your YouTube that outlines how to begin [00:36:36] where to start with implementing intermission fast?

[00:36:04] Siim Land: [00:36:04] Yeah, like you can probably check out one of my playlists on my YouTube channel about intermittent fasting and Kido. So there are many different videos about what breaks a fast. What can you drink during a fast different schedules of you know, the 16 and 8 method to Ward or one meal a day Etc so you can definitely like browse the YouTube channel, but if you want to get like a real like a condensed guide then you can check out my website as well.

[00:36:27] I have like

[00:36:29] Carl Lanore: [00:36:29] a man what happened? We lost him. I hope he reconnects. You know what? I hadn't planned on running a commercial but let me run a quick commercial and get him back because we have to fix this and finish this interview stay tuned stay tuned while this really

[00:36:46] Siim Land: [00:36:46] sucks.

[00:36:49] Carl Lanore: [00:36:49] And I'm even trying his cell phone and it's saying his cell phone is out of range.

[00:36:52] I don't know.

[00:36:56] Trade your coverage. Yeah, it's Out Of Reach. [00:37:36] The cell phone is Out Of Reach he dropped out and I don't know if he knows he dropped out. I gotta believe he does his camera just went that sucks. I had so many questions for my wanted him to give the list of the ten things about intimate and fasting he wished he would have known when he first started seven years ago.

[00:37:22] But

[00:37:22] Siim Land: [00:37:22] you

[00:37:22] Carl Lanore: [00:37:22] can find that on his YouTube channel, so. I feel terrible. There was also a question from ginevra Hess. How vital is consuming grass-fed Meats compared to standard meets, I think for health. It's the very important whether or not it plays into the whole ketogenic diet intermittent fasting thing you with some sort of unique value.

[00:37:53] I don't know but I can tell you that I only eat grass fed. Beef it. We if [00:38:36] you eat sick animals. It's not going to be good for you and and cows that are not eating grass are absolutely sick animals. That's why they have to give them antibiotics to keep him alive long enough to slaughter them. So eating grass fed meat and pastured Meats in general pigs that live a normal life chicken that chickens that eat rocks and worms and bugs.

[00:38:20] You know chickens eat mice chickens and not vegans. When you see chicken eggs from a vegan diet run that chickens and not vegans. They eat everything they eat their own poop. So, you know this idea that getting pastured products is critical very very critical how it rolls into the discussion. That seemed was making I don't know maybe he's going to reconnect to I just saw some activity.

[00:38:49] I don't know but yeah, here he comes here. He comes drum roll, please. All right, he's back. Hold on. See me there.

[00:39:00] [00:39:36] Siim Land: [00:39:00] What's up? Yeah, okay weird. Like I was actually seeing everything and hearing everything you were doing. So like I didn't connect or I didn't disconnect but it looks like you didn't.

[00:39:10] Get through or something. Yeah,

[00:39:12] Carl Lanore: [00:39:12] and I even tried your cell phone and I kept getting a message that said that was it would didn't have coverage where it was. I was like, oh no, this is this is he's in a blackout that's funny. So you could see and hear but you couldn't communicate. I think that's what it's like when you die guy you think you say to people?

[00:39:27] No, I'm still here. They're like, I don't see him anymore. Where'd he go? Anyway, so let's go ahead and get this question and Jeff Clifton. Yeah, you're right. Okay, I just got bullshit called on me. I'll show you in a second. You never has says how vital is consuming grass-fed Meats compared to standard meets.

[00:39:49] How long does it take to be truly fat adapted to very different questions. I was trying to ad-lib while you were gone and said eating protein from pastured [00:40:36] animals is critical no matter what kind of diet you're on. What do you.

[00:40:04] Siim Land: [00:40:04] Well, I think you know high-quality meat is definitely much better and you should always try to eat as high quality as you possibly can but it does not always like, you know convenient or possible for some people because of their income status or something, but at the same time, I think like it's a matter of context and what kind of other food you're eating.

[00:40:24] So let's say a standard meat like a grain-fed meat is definitely less worse on a diet that is already low in. Three foods and it doesn't have a process carbs or it doesn't have greens or sugars. So if you're eating like a low-carb ketogenic diet and it's somewhat of a green fed meat then I think like it's it's better than eating it with like, you know, the standard way of eating in a.

[00:40:49] So I think like the inflammatory the idea that the omega-6 profile of Greenfield meat is higher that matter is only in the context of the whole [00:41:36] diet and right. Yeah the entire that if you're the rest of your diet is clean and it's low inflammatory and you're taking like maybe some high-quality called liver oil or something.

[00:41:09] It's then that kind of balances itself out. So, you know, that's it's not going to be like a huge problem, but you should always definitely try to eat as high quality as possible. It's not that big of a it's not that big of a problem in Europe because we don't inject like steroids and hormones into that into our Kettle, right so we don't have like a huge.

[00:41:26] Like a difference in quality between grass-fed and grain-fed.

[00:41:30] Carl Lanore: [00:41:30] So so we're going to get back to Gennaro's second part of a question, but I had to put Jeff Clifton's comment up here: bullshit on me because while we were while I was vamping and waiting to try to reconnect with you I said, oh all I eat is grass fed, and then Jen went and Jeff said Wendy's isn't grass-fed call and he's right when I'm in a jam.

[00:41:50] I pulled through the Wendy's drive-through. And I get for large beef patties and nothing else and I just eat knows that's a pound of pound of ground beef. But see [00:42:36] Jeff, it doesn't matter because the rest of my diet is clean. There you go. Let's go back to ginevra has Quest second part of a question.

[00:42:07] This is a completely different question. And I have a feeling that the answer is not very straight forward. How long does it take to be truly fat adapted?

[00:42:17] Siim Land: [00:42:17] Yeah, that's a good question. And I think it depends very much on many factors. Like what kind of a diet where you're doing before? How am I how many carbs are you reducing or lot?

[00:42:28] Like how low carb are you going hold while you're exercising how metabolically fixity body is a body. What's your general metabolic health and hormones and all those things play a factor, but usually like people can get into ketosis within like, you know a few days like, And literally fast for three days and they're already in quite deep ketosis, but like being in ketosis isn't necessarily going to equal fat dedication or key validation.

[00:42:55] So key data station is more of like a thing that you build up. And it's a matter of degree [00:43:36] that everyone is Quito adapted to a certain extent. But if you're eating a bunch of carbs, then your kid out of station is like minimal and very low so going on low carb low carb that just increases the degree of fat that application and there isn't there isn't like a specific threshold that you can cross that okay now on get updates because yeah, it just increases or your your ability to use fat.

[00:43:23] Just increases over time and general symptoms of better fat addition would include that you don't get tired during the day. You don't feel hypoglycemic when you skip meals you can easily fast for several days. And yeah, you're like generally very energized without, you know needing to eat carbs or sugars.

[00:43:41] Carl Lanore: [00:43:41] I wake up in the morning after the normal 16 hours. Not even at that point in time. I stopped eating at 6 p.m. And periodically I don't do it every day anymore. But periodically I check my Ketone levels blood Ketone levels. I'm 1 point 4 millimoles when I wake up in the morning no problem at all and [00:44:36] I can fast in fact and I'm sure that you'll relate to what I'm about to say and most people in the audience who experienced this but once I get past the 24 hours, I actually become euphoric and then II.

[00:44:15] I don't know if I want to eat cuz then this is going to go away. I'm not going to feel like this once I eat and I actually end up wanting to fast longer because I want to maintain that euphoric feeling have you ever experienced that

[00:44:27] Siim Land: [00:44:27] yeah, definitely like there is a certain point during this longer fasts where this like flip switches and you go into like somewhat of a deeper ketosis and you feel very mentally clear and everything becomes very almost almost like crystal clear and you feel very euphoric like you said, So I think that's that's perfectly fine.

[00:44:47] And usually like you can definitely maintain it to a certain extent with like a low car ketogenic diet. So I don't like notice a huge difference between eating keto and fasting for maybe like 24 hours [00:45:36] or 48 Hours. Like if I do notice a difference with our fast for like three days even when I'm doing kiddo, but yeah like the.

[00:45:07] The buffering Zone becomes less distinct in a sense between Quito and actually fasting

[00:45:13] Carl Lanore: [00:45:13] so I wanted to do this and I think that up wrong one. I'm sorry. I think that Krister coupie copy wants us to do this as well. Can you run through just bullet items the 10 things that you wish you would have learned.

[00:45:31] About intermittent fasting when you first started doing this that you've learned recently and now they're eye-openers for you. Could you go through that list?

[00:45:38] Siim Land: [00:45:38] Yeah. Well, I have to kind of reconnect. My memory is a little bit so I would say that. The biggest lesson that I wish I knew sooner was that autophagy isn't like always a good thing.

[00:45:53] So and the same applies to fasting. So like I said, you feel awesome when you're fasting and you hear about all [00:46:36] the benefits of a topology and you may think that more is always better, but the truth is that it's not always the case. So it's actually somewhat there are some solid research to show that in.

[00:46:11] Some cases are tough as you can actually be negative for the body because it kind of enables the cancer cells also survived which happens probably cause of this General stress adaptation where your body becomes very tough and the cancer cells also adapt to that. So I would say that. Fasting is just a way of preventing against many diseases, but it's not always like a best approach to all of

[00:46:36] Carl Lanore: [00:46:36] them more isn't better more isn't better.

[00:46:38] Yeah,

[00:46:38] Siim Land: [00:46:38] that's

[00:46:39] Carl Lanore: [00:46:39] there's this. There's a sweet spot. No doubt. What are some of the other things that you've learned? I know I was just going to go ahead and run your your YouTube video. I was trying to see how long it is. It's about eight minutes long. I could just go run that and we can listen to it.

[00:46:52] If you want or you could just give me some of the top lines whatever you want. Let's see something else.

[00:46:58] Siim Land: [00:46:58] Yeah, I'm not [00:47:36] you're looking at the list of myself and just some what some of the things that were like, you know, you should have to think about what's what's what kind of a plan is more sustainable for you because the fasting itself.

[00:47:13] Should be thought of as like a lifelong thing that you do not see I'm not some sort of a crash diet or a quick fix. So some people who are doing maybe fasting for fat loss then they may potentially end up doing these Vicious Cycles of fasting and then binging and back and forth right and never really really progressing because they make up for all the fat loss that experience during a fast with like so reading so having a solid plan is probably a lot of it is very important to have like a solid plan and that.

[00:47:43] Some form actually requires you to pay attention to your calories and macronutrients and paying attention to the food you're eating because like no one although fasting can help you to like overcome a cheat day in some aspects. It's not something that you want to do just for the sake of it because I'm not that sustainable.

[00:47:58] What

[00:47:58] Carl Lanore: [00:47:58] about electrolytes? [00:48:36] It's people have discovered that the keto flu. Is actually result of not having adequate electrolytes in what if you're eating a keto diet high in protein and fat. You're probably not getting a lot of the electrolytes or talk about that.

[00:48:15] Siim Land: [00:48:15] Yeah. Well when you are, let's say in a low carb State whether that be because of eating cookie dough or fasting then your insulin levels are very low and Insulin makes your body holds onto water.

[00:48:28] So with lower levels insulin, you release more water and that increases urination. And because of that you may just flush out some of the electrolytes like potassium and sodium. So one of the biggest reasons people get the key to flow or even when the feeling of thorgy queuing fasting is because of like deficient affects rights and people can easily fix it with increasing their sodium intake or even just like a drinking some regular sort of water.

[00:48:51] That's that's generally like a really good way of increasing our general General energy even when you're fasting.

[00:48:59] Carl Lanore: [00:48:59] Let's see [00:49:36] some of the I'm trying to find some of the other things that you talked about in your list. And and by the way, you can get a complete list and it's very entertaining your video is great.

[00:49:08] The one that pops up right away. If you go to his youtube.com slash seem landess IRS IIM Lan Di. And look at the 10 Things. I wish I knew about intermittent fasting sooner. You can get the whole list. We're probably going to skip over some of the things one

[00:49:26] Siim Land: [00:49:26] of the last points in that list or them.

[00:49:28] Probably one of the most crucial ones is also that you should actually focus a lot on training and progressing and building muscle despite the fact that you're fasting so you shouldn't just fast and not trained because that creates a it puts the, you know balance towards more negatives. So it you're more leaning towards losing muscle rather than building if you're not training and if you're not eating enough nutrients so muscle mass is very important for longevity.

[00:49:55] And there's a trend that as you get older you tend to lose your [00:50:36] muscle and you it's it becomes increasingly more difficult to build it. So you shouldn't let fasting start to make you lose muscle even if you're getting older. So having some form of resistance training and definitely increasing your protein intake is especially important when you're doing any manifesting as well.

[00:50:16] Carl Lanore: [00:50:16] What are your opinions of a ketone salt Ketone Esters and in either Bridging the Gap until your fat adapted or just adding them into the mix if you are someone who's into intimate?

[00:50:30] Siim Land: [00:50:30] Well, I think the biggest application to let's say key consult would be just as like as a daily electrolyte supplement because the group do come like with a convenient combination of some potassium and the sodium and magnesium with the with the beta-hydroxybutyrate salts so they can be used in some aspects like.

[00:50:49] A way to prolong the period where you're fasting as well as just you know as a pre-workout or something like that. They're definitely not like a fat loss [00:51:36] supplement now, although there's although their advertising such but they don't help you to burn more fat or they don't well

[00:51:05] Carl Lanore: [00:51:05] and and the advertisements are blatantly wrong.

[00:51:09] So there's a big difference between keto lysis and ketosis Kiki no licenses. Your body is using. Ketones as a source of energy ketosis is your body is making ketones. They are mutually exclusive things. If you're taking Ketone salts, you are putting your body into a keto lytic state where it is using ketones as a form of energy, but since it's not making those ketones itself, it's not using fat.

[00:51:43] And you know, so whenever I see these these study these are advertisements for Ketone salt Ketone Esters, you know, they say be in ketosis in 10 minutes. No, you're not in ketosis in 10 minutes your kid Keitel Isis in 10 minutes because you're giving your body ketones from an [00:52:36] exogenous Source, but your body is not making them and that means if your body's making them then you're in ketosis.

[00:52:07] It frustrates me. It does.

[00:52:09] Siim Land: [00:52:09] Yeah, they can be used like maybe as a gateway drug to get to get used to ketones or like an appetite suppression. So if you drink the electrolyte or if you think the assault. And then skip a meal then it's worth it in the sense that you actually prolong the fasting but if you're actually like eating the salts and the needing as well in hopes of boosting effect burning, then that's not gonna happen.

[00:52:33] By

[00:52:34] Carl Lanore: [00:52:34] the way. I started rapamycin therapy three weeks ago. Are you familiar with the research on rapamycin?

[00:52:41] Siim Land: [00:52:41] Yeah. Yeah definitely like it's a very promising future Fusion

[00:52:46] Carl Lanore: [00:52:46] drive. It's a but it's so much. So so people think. That taking metformin every single day is a great idea and I have been against this idea since it became popular for a variety of reasons and [00:53:36] all those reasons.

[00:53:01] I stated five six years ago are now starting to come out in the people who are taking metformin every single day. But like we talked about earlier how the body responds 2222 scarcity and abundance. When you take rapamycin one day a week, it has 12 hour half life. You take it one day a week. That's all you take.

[00:53:29] It its effect on mtor is not where the magic is. Everybody thinks it's about mtor and and it does shutdown mtor it does but that's not where the magic is. The thing that rapamycin does magnificently and it's a process of hormesis. Is it actually converts senescent cells back to quiescent cells? So you have these you have these zombie cells that for some reason apoptosis passed them [00:54:36] by and so instead of dying.

[00:54:02] They're still sitting at the kitchen table Radha. And what makes what happens is everybody else that sits at the kitchen table with them smells that rotting smell and they don't even want to be there and they start getting sick. So senescent cells produce immune Aunt of employment inflammatory cytokines that infect all the cells around them and make all the cells around them sick and those cells don't work good and but they're two they're past their Prime and they won't die.

[00:54:31] They're like zombies. Well wrap a. Flips them into quiescent cells again and makes them work and that re-establishes the a pop tonic landscape and then they died when they were supposed to die in the first place. This is very different. I just thought it I've been talking about it since 2014 but there were reasons I didn't start because not because I was afraid of it.

[00:54:53] I didn't have the right doctor to work with I didn't have access to the drugs but I just started at this is my third week of using it and [00:55:36] and I fast but 24 hours the days I use my rap of myosin to help what it's planning to do doing so because I figure if my if the factory isn't digesting food, there's more energy.

[00:55:13] To be used to help switch those senescent cells back to quiescent cells. That's my logic. I don't know if it's accurate.

[00:55:20] Siim Land: [00:55:20] Wow, that's that's pretty interesting. Yeah, rapamycin also by promotes a topology. So maybe maybe part of the reason that flip happens is because of the cells themselves are taken out by a topology because that's how it's allergy works is all like the dead cells are converted back into energy as well.

[00:55:36] Right?

[00:55:37] Carl Lanore: [00:55:37] Yeah, and I that the reason I injected the discussion rapamycin because rapamycin turns on or topology in a huge way, but just for a short time if you. You look at people at take rapamycin for cancer or you look at people who take rapamycin for anti-rejection. They've had a kidney transplant.

[00:56:36] [00:55:59] They don't do well they don't do well there they are weak their sickly. They just don't do well, but when you take it for one day, the hormetic response is it's amazing. It builds the body back up stronger during the week that you're not taking. It's a very very interesting phenomena. I've had dr.

[00:56:18] Mikhail blackish glowny on my show twice now. He's the guy who pioneered this 35 years ago, and he's about to come back on now again. He just published he's in the process of publishing a study. I got a chance to read it before he published it on using rapamycin and the ketogenic diet together and that using rapamycin with the ketogenic diet stops, the potential insulin resisting effects of the ketogenic diet and some some people actually develop insulin resistance while in on the ketogenic diet the rapamycin seems to stop that.

[00:56:52] Hmm, very very fascinating that papers coming out. I'll send it to you once I get I'll send it to you.

[00:56:57] Siim Land: [00:56:57] We like the that we're good. Yeah,

[00:56:59] Carl Lanore: [00:56:59] so the [00:57:36] part

[00:57:00] Siim Land: [00:57:00] of the reason like good. I was going to say that you know, that's part of the reason why you don't want to be suppressing your insulin all the time either like taking a bunch of Metformin everyday Etc or fasting all the time because your body just becomes too catabolic and you can start losing muscle tissue which in turn becomes a vicious cycle of.

[00:57:18] You becoming more insulin resistant than not being able to tolerate carbs and you're shutting down your metabolic rate Etc. So it's a balance of you know, you're fasting but you're also being anabolic and actually promoting muscle growth with training and the diet

[00:57:31] Carl Lanore: [00:57:31] and yeah and Metformin shuts off Mt.

[00:57:34] And if you take it twice a day, like they tell you to you're shutting off mtor every single day. So you may live to be a hundred and twenty but they're going to have to push you around in a wheelchair because you won't be able to get up anymore because you'll get your just your internet and atrophic State 24/7 24/7.

[00:57:51] Did we miss anything that you want to discuss see him before we end the interview.

[00:57:57] Siim Land: [00:57:57] I think it was a good cover over. [00:58:36] We will leave something for the YouTube channel for people to check out this. Well,

[00:58:04] Carl Lanore: [00:58:04] yeah. Yeah and the book get the book. The book is great. The book is fantastic go to Sim land.

[00:58:11] Excuse me. I'm having a allergy attack today siim Lan d.com and get the book and of course. Youtube.com slash symbol and siim Lan di it's been great to finally have you on the show. I've followed your work for a long time. It's really really good.

[00:58:27] Siim Land: [00:58:27] It was great talking with you again. And let's do it sometime in the future.

[00:58:30] Carl Lanore: [00:58:30] Yeah. No, we'll do it again. Well what I'm going to send you this study that as soon as black is crony tells me I can release it. I'm going to send it to you and you can write a little something about it and then we'll come back on and discuss your opinion of the study. How's that sound?

[00:58:44] Siim Land: [00:58:44] That's awesome.

[00:58:44] Yeah. Okay

[00:58:45] Carl Lanore: [00:58:45] I talk to you soon. And thanks for being I know it's very late where you are. So thank you.

[00:58:49] Siim Land: [00:58:49] All right. I'll see you around

[00:58:50] Carl Lanore: [00:58:50] I so we're going to take off now that that's it for today's show. Tomorrow is the blueprint power our don't miss that we got great shows the rest of the week going to [00:59:36] be talking about the sleep on ring on Friday.

[00:59:02] I think this is a not an activity tracker, but this is a ring that just tracks sleep and it's the best ring. For tracking sleep in the world, and we'll have a coupon code with a very very deep discount for the audience. Please pass these shows around let people know that these discussions are happening help the show grow and help reach more people and change lives along with me.

[00:59:27] We'll see you tomorrow. Thanks for listening today [01:00:36] .