[00:00:00] [00:00:00] Carl Lanore: [00:00:00] hey, hey, welcome back to a new week. We're starting the week off with a really important show their all-important. Right every show. I say it's important because they really all be important. Absolutely they are and this one is no different back around 2012. I had Adel Moussa on my show we used to do a regular episode on Thursdays called suppversity science roundup up after his supversity blog and we explored.

[00:00:28] A very very efficient form of. Antioxidant sorry and it was shaped like a it was shaped like a soccer ball was really interesting and they called it buckyball because of the shape of it buckminsterfullerene some story that ties back to the Dome of a university where somebody in Buckminster. I don't know where that is.

[00:00:55] Maybe the UK sounds like a word from the UK [00:01:00] and. This antioxidant had some amazing qualities that Noah the antioxidant on the planet had and the original studies were done on rodents and the rodents lived significantly longer. I mean not like oh statistically like unbelievably longer like like 30% longer lives when given this antioxidant, And of course it became very interesting and at that point in time, they were really no human studies and we talked about it and I even took it for a little while month some months.

[00:01:34] I don't even know that what I was taking was real, but nonetheless, I tried it and I was hoping to see some changes and this is one of those things that you may not actually notice anything except if you take it long enough and since then I ran into a guy named Chris. Wrestling will bring him on right now here.

[00:01:55] Hold on a second. Let me get my big head to the right here.  How you doing, [00:02:00] Chris?

[00:02:00] Chris Burres: [00:02:00] I'm doing wonderful Carl. How you doing? Good,

[00:02:03] Carl Lanore: [00:02:03] and so I got to tell you first of all originally. I was contacted by an agent who wanted to get you on the show and some of the things that the agent said I knew were wrong and I actually since have communicated with you and you're like they they didn't have all that stuff.

[00:02:17] Right? But the reality is your story is actually more impressive than I thought. I'm still skeptical because we don't have any humans that are living 220 that can go. Hey, I've been taking this stuff for you know, 90 years or 80 years, but there is some evidence and new science that's come out since I originally spoke about it that kind of has peaked my interest but I think the most interesting thing about this is you're not a johnny-come-lately like oh, this is a great supplement.

[00:02:45] I'm gonna get in the business. You actually are nanotechnology engineering. Who made the original material for the original study so you tell your story like [00:03:00] 1991 you're in the business of making carbon Nano material, correct?

[00:03:04] Chris Burres: [00:03:04] Yes. Yeah.

[00:03:04] Carl Lanore: [00:03:04] Well

[00:03:05] Chris Burres: [00:03:05] Carl first thank you so much for having me on your show a little bit of background in 1991.

[00:03:10] I was at going to the University of Houston go coops, and I was studying mechanical engineering. I always knew I wanted to be an entrepreneur and in mechanical engineering was actually kind of the fastest way to really kind of a larger salary so I could have some cash to invest in a business while I was in school at a good friend of mine Robert Wong.

[00:03:31] He was actually working for the Texas Center for superconductivity, which was also on the University of Houston campus. For a dr. Pol chew now. Dr. Paul chew is kind of famous in the superconductivity arena and my business partner. Robert Wong was separating fullerenes for dr. Chu and one day, dr.

[00:03:50] Chu came into the kind of the lab and was like Hey this material, by the way, this material way back then was selling for six thousand dollars a gram. [00:04:00] Yeah, I feel like that's worth letting it sink in six thousand dollars a gram. And so, dr. Chu came in it was like hey, you guys are young guys? Why don't you go start a company and my business partner was gonna entrepreneurial background and and so he started the business he had another partner was actually separating materials with them.

[00:04:20] I was studying mechanical engineering they wanted help with like drawings and and kind of heat equations because there's a lot of heat involved. And so I got involved and I was supposed to originally I was supposed to go away and it turned out that the other partner went away. He's very successful still very good friends of ours, but now it's Robert and myself and the company's SES research and what we really started back then is we're carbon Nano material scientists were the first company that still exists to deliver commercial quantities of carbon Nano materials, and we can jump into like that Discovery here if if that's the direction you

[00:04:55] Carl Lanore: [00:04:55] ya know cuz I want to know like.

[00:04:57] When you did this it wasn't for its [00:05:00] antioxidant value is right there these carbon Nano materials. We used for industrial type purposes, right?

[00:05:06] Chris Burres: [00:05:06] Yeah, yeah, so so in reality it was pretty quick that the scientific Community recognize that this material we call it ESS 60 was going to be really valuable to society.

[00:05:18] So I don't know if you're familiar with Benzene the Benzene ring and how valuable that is, right. It's in a plastic sentence and medicines and it's an all of this stuff and and it's and it's really a two-dimensional molecule right when the buckyball came out so it was discovered in 1985 by. Church Smiley Harold kroto and Robert curl and is they discovered it in 1985?

[00:05:41] And as you mentioned it's like a soccer ball shaped molecule the lines on the soccer ball represents the bonds between the carbon atoms to have a spherical molecule of carbon carbon 60. Again, we call it ESS 60 and and and so that when they made that Discovery, they the scientific [00:06:00] Community kind of figured this was a 3D version of benzene.

[00:06:03] Right? And if Benzene is so ubiquitous then you know clearly this 3D version of benzene is going to be really important. So they actually won the Nobel Prize for that Discovery in 1986. So that's a short 11 years typically with the with a Nobel Prize. It's like 30 50. You know, even after the researcher has passed that they actually award the Nobel Prize because like hey remember that thing you discovered so long ago now we understand it's really important that was not the case with this molecule ESS 60 so, you know discovered in 1985 Nobel Prize in 1996, and then we actually started the company in 1991.

[00:06:43] And really what it was used for is we kind of joked. It was for research. If you're going to write a research paper and you want to kind of research the different pieces of the material than you know, different kind of qualities of the material it just won a Nobel Prize. So you're pretty much guaranteed to get

[00:06:59] Carl Lanore: [00:06:59] funding.

[00:06:59] [00:07:00] Right, right. That's so interesting. And so yeah

[00:07:04] Chris Burres: [00:07:04] some of the stuff that they were already applying it to so this is really interesting. Because of this material yes S60. There's a new symbol in chemistry, right? So it's C60 and there's an app symbols. So we use that in our email address. That at symbol never existed in chemistry until this C60.

[00:07:23] So basically when you've got lanthanum axi 60 what you have is lanthanum trapped in physically trapped inside of that ESS 60 molecule, right? And so it's not covalently bonded. It's not ionically bonded. It's physically trapped in any atom on the Periodic Chart can fit inside of it. So just kind of interesting that this is such a revolutionary technology that is actually changing the symbol system in.

[00:07:48] History,

[00:07:50] Carl Lanore: [00:07:50] this is a dumb question. But it's just tangential since it can trap things like that. Would it be a good addition to a transdermal [00:08:00] delivery?

[00:08:01] Chris Burres: [00:08:01] So yes, and you have to end and they kind of knew right away, especially with his ability to trap stuff kind of in their minds. They knew they could attach different things to the exterior and potentially have it Target specific cells in the body.

[00:08:15] And then if you had a radio active molecule trapped inside of this you could transmit out now you're radiating that specific molecule in the body. So those are the kinds of things that they understood in reality. It's harder than a diamond that actually turn into a diamond. It's got six fold symmetry so soccer ball has six fold symmetry on it so it can hold more electrons than than any molecule without the decorative.

[00:08:40] So can you know, you can add the electrons and release each

[00:08:42] Carl Lanore: [00:08:42] one each. One of those is a bond area, right each one of those and then you've got so many of them in the globe itself.

[00:08:49] Chris Burres: [00:08:49] And at symmetry enables it to attach a lot of electrons and then release those electrons without degradation the material, you know, we're all familiar with our cell phone battery day one and [00:09:00] even mine is kind of in that transition period where like it.

[00:09:02] Wow. This is the best phone battery. I've had in six months nine months maybe a year depending on how you use it. Like well, it's just not holding a charge as long I gotta Purge it all day. That's actually because of a degradation of the material right? And so this buckyball has the ability to take those electrons in a.

[00:09:18] That's what a battery does and and because of its six-fold symmetry has a lot of resilience and it doesn't degrade the material

[00:09:25] Carl Lanore: [00:09:25] now, it's Discovery. I've read somewhere along time ago was it was discovered as a byproduct of soot like in chimneys or candle? So it from burning candles is that true or that nonsense so you can

[00:09:41] Chris Burres: [00:09:41] find it in search.

[00:09:42] So if you take a candle flame and you put like a cold steel plate above the candle flame flame and collect the suit, you'll find some parts per million C60. The discovery is actually a little kind of more interesting Harold kroto. So one of the three that won the Nobel Prize is an astrophysicist [00:10:00] and was very much interested in identifying a Founder a spectre Spectra like a.

[00:10:06] Wavelength right in space and wanted to identify what it was and his theory was that it was carbon. Dr. Smalley had this amazing piece of equipment which basically what it did is you took a sample in there you shot a laser at that sample. And so that would vaporize whatever it was. Then it would take a puff of inert gas and take that over into a mass spectrometer right in Mass spectrometer.

[00:10:27] You can see like how many atoms were associated with each other on each molecule. And so at the time he was doing really sexy things like tungsten and and aluminum and all sorts of kind of different. Types of metals and Harold kroto wanted to actually stick in carbon. And dr. Somali was like carbon is boring.

[00:10:47] Yeah.

[00:10:48] Carl Lanore: [00:10:48] Yeah. Why would

[00:10:48] Chris Burres: [00:10:48] I put carbon in this machine like everybody like nobody's interested in carbon. It was actually on the third trip that Harold kroto came that one of dr. Smalley's grad students actually said Hey, [00:11:00] listen, I'm going to stick carbon in over the weekend and you know, we'll look at the results on on Monday so that grad student.

[00:11:07] So again your vaporizing this graphite. Making puff of inert gas and taking it into this Mass spectrometer and basically a mass spectrometer saying here's of the molecules that were created. Here's how many carbon atoms are in each of those molecules. Right? And if you're typically we're familiar with diamond and graphite in this case.

[00:11:25] They would have been making graphite if you've got a graphite sheet, right? There's no reason that one size graphite sheet might be more popular than another and what he notices that there was a there was a Peak at C 6 T. So if it's a graphite sheet, why is there you know a preference of c64 says c59 or c61 right and was actually able to tweak the equipment and get that Peak to heightened even more and we need presented that to the group on Monday.

[00:11:55] They're like, okay, this is something really interesting. Kind of a [00:12:00] side historical note IBM had the exact same data one year prior. Yes, and they wrote it off as an anomaly their like again. The anomaly would be well, it's just crazy that there's a flat sheet of 60 instead of 59 60 1 right and bro.

[00:12:16] It's just an anomaly whatever and they moved on her. That's why they won the Nobel Prize. So small a crotteau and cruel were like no this means something that's figure it out. And then there's kind of this Epiphany moment right where they put this 60 carbon atoms in this shape of a soccer ball the ball Falls in bounces and you know in this well does the Nobel Prize

[00:12:38] Carl Lanore: [00:12:38] is

[00:12:38] Chris Burres: [00:12:38] awarded?

[00:12:39] Carl Lanore: [00:12:39] So so so in nature is have have we discovered now why the 60 form is?

[00:12:50] Chris Burres: [00:12:50] So it is in the right conditions a the lowest in you know, everything's about low energy. So try any of these state right? So in the right situation if you've [00:13:00] got enough carbon pairs, right? So that's like vaporizing by a laser.

[00:13:04] You know, there's architect Knology. There is a flame synthesis technology, but you've got to do it in you in order to have flame you have to have oxygen but you got to reduce that oxygen environment and then you can make appreciable quantities of this buckyball. So it really is an energy. State situation and there's been there's one post on our on our Facebook page which is how they've discovered a massive amount of C 60 in space right here.

[00:13:31] Yes massive amount.

[00:13:33] Carl Lanore: [00:13:33] What about I would imagine it's probably found in meteorites to

[00:13:37] Chris Burres: [00:13:37] yes. So the Katie barrier, so that's when the asteroid struck Earth that whole barrier around the earth has a higher density of C60 in it than then you will find anywhere else. And

[00:13:48] yes.

[00:13:49] Carl Lanore: [00:13:49] Yeah,

[00:13:50] Chris Burres: [00:13:50] it's amazing. It's really is amazing.

[00:13:53] And then the results that come, you know, post 2012 study are kind of seem to be equally amazing.

[00:13:58] Carl Lanore: [00:13:58] So let's [00:14:00] let's move into that realm because that's really the this is fascinating, you know, just from a general science standpoint, but I think people are really interested in the the ability for this to perhaps extend life and maybe.

[00:14:16] Maybe blunt some of the wear and tear of living from an oxidative stress standpoint. So when did they discover that it had this this appreciable antioxidant fact that such a powerful antioxidant. They they refer to it as a free radical sponge. It's like a hundred times more effective as an antioxidant than any other antioxidant we know about.

[00:14:41] Chris Burres: [00:14:41] Well, so it's a hot and so there's one study. It says 272 times more powerful than vitamin C but there are actually things on the scale and what I and I'm very specific about that. So orac scale is one of them that are even higher than that. So, I don't know if you've heard of Moringa Moringa is a plant and yeah, it [00:15:00] actually is like a thousand times more of an antioxidant than vitamin C the issue is as how does it interact with the body and how does it actually interact with the antenna

[00:15:09] Carl Lanore: [00:15:09] Moringa has sugar.

[00:15:10] And everybody's trying to avoid sugar in the first place. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[00:15:13] Chris Burres: [00:15:13] Yeah. Yeah, so, you know, it's not just this, you know antioxidant is like well, what does It ultimately do in the body, right? That's that's that's the real deal, right? Um, yeah and so a hundred seventy two times four vo powerful than vitamin C.

[00:15:27] It's also an anti-inflammatory, right? And so and

[00:15:30] Carl Lanore: [00:15:30] okay, so I want to I don't want to I don't want to gloss over that. Yeah lot of antioxidants are actually pro-inflammatory for. One of the most powerful antioxidants that makes it through the blood-brain barrier as melatonin, but it's a pro-inflammatory, right?

[00:15:44] So the idea that its antioxidant and anti-inflammatory at the same time to me was fascinating when I first read about this.

[00:15:50] Chris Burres: [00:15:50] Pretty revolutionary right? Yes that you know, the current thought on the aging process is it's you know free radical damage and and inflammation and so [00:16:00] if you've got one component that isn't just you know a good antioxidant and a good anti-inflammatory but seems to be a great antioxidant and a great anti-inflammatory really addresses the two key issues there

[00:16:13] Carl Lanore: [00:16:13] so.

[00:16:16] it's an antioxidant that actually. It does not need to be recycled or it recycles itself, of course, you know vitamin C and glutathione vitamin C recycles glutathione. So you need some amount of vitamin C in order to keep the glutathione production happening, but it isn't it true that you don't have that whole recycle thing is a non-starter when we talk about Buckyballs when we tell you you call it ESS

[00:16:40] Chris Burres: [00:16:40] ESS 60

[00:16:41] Carl Lanore: [00:16:41] ESS 60 when we talk about ESS 60, is it true that it kind of recycles itself?

[00:16:48] Chris Burres: [00:16:48] So so some of ESS 60 passes through the body and if we go back and let's talk a little bit about that initial 2012 study that really in fact you had a I wasn't aware in until we first [00:17:00] kind of started communicating you did a podcast way back then so your way on top of this particular Topic in 2012.

[00:17:07] So so again it won the Nobel Prize they assumed it would be as ubiquitous as Benzene. If it is then you gotta you know, I don't know if you know this you probably do. Xena's dangerous their own carcinogenic. If you have Benzene around you need to take precautions to make sure that you don't have high levels of exposure to venting.

[00:17:26] So they kind of assumed if this is a 3D version of benzene that it's going to have the same kind of it's going to be toxic. So the original study 2012 guy out of Paris actually group out affairs. Ended up as a peer-reviewed published study. They decided it was a toxicity study. Now when it comes to a toxicity studies kind of interesting.

[00:17:46] They don't just like give a little bit to the rats and see if they feel a little uncomfortable. They give a lot to the rats because they really it's kind of twofold one. You've got to First decide if it's toxic at all. Right, right and you're not to figure out at what [00:18:00] level

[00:18:00] Carl Lanore: [00:18:00] yeah, the Elder the ld50 means that the dose killed at least 50% of the rats that it was.

[00:18:06] Chris Burres: [00:18:06] Exactly, right so they're doing that and and so it's a typical Wister Rattlers 32 months and dies with tumors. Like that's what wistar rats do that's what they're bred to do. That's what if they're genetically engineered to do. So they gave these rats ones that are rats was the control got water the other one got olive oil and then the third got olive oil with ESS.

[00:18:29] And instead of being toxic, they actually lived not so you mentioned 30% in the intro. It was 90% longer.

[00:18:36] Carl Lanore: [00:18:36] Wow. Okay, thank you for christ. And and in fact, correct me if I'm wrong because it's been a while since I've talked about it. I like I said, it just fell off my radar because I thought I you know, this isn't sexy crazy.

[00:18:48] Yeah, but but the interesting thing about it my light my light just went out if it got dark in here. It's not lightning they did didn't they have to. The trial didn't like the [00:19:00] rats live so long that they were like, well, they're not going to die. So let's just end this this study now.

[00:19:05] Chris Burres: [00:19:05] They were down to two rats.

[00:19:07] Okay, one of those two rats died and they euthanize the last rivet

[00:19:10] Carl Lanore: [00:19:10] last one. They were like, he's not going to die. Let's just kill him so we can pull the plug on this. Yeah. Yeah. Imagine imagine being him. It's kind of like that. It's kind of like that Monty Python bring out your dead. I'm not dead yet.

[00:19:22] You will be soon like that was like, wait a minute. I'm doing okay. Don't kill me and

[00:19:28] Chris Burres: [00:19:28] now

[00:19:28] Carl Lanore: [00:19:28] I'm good. So so get

[00:19:31] Chris Burres: [00:19:31] a couple of couple amazing things one kudos to the research. Right because the researcher if you're doing a toxicity study and all of the control group has died, you can safely say it's not toxic.

[00:19:43] Right, you can just be doing and say it's not toxic. Right and instead that they ran. So this is a two and a half at about two and a half years. They ran that study for another so they kept those rats alive in the cage and fed him and did all the things that you need all the husbandry that you need to do to keep the rats alive for another two and a half [00:20:00] years.

[00:20:01] So double what they thought that like first off as soon as soon as the toxicity is known and they died early. This should have been less than a 32 month. It turned out to be a 62 month experiment and you're exactly right. There were two one of them died in the euthanize the last one and again of those rats that died on an average of 62 months.

[00:20:23] None of them had tumors.  Right. So we're that

[00:20:27] Carl Lanore: [00:20:27] that's that that's important because one of my questions was going to be about cancer. That's so important.

[00:20:32] Chris Burres: [00:20:32] Yeah, so think about this is all of those wraps that died at 32 wants the control group. They had tumors even though they live twice as long none of the ones that were given in a ESS 60 and olive oil had tumors.

[00:20:45] Carl Lanore: [00:20:45] So one of the arguments about it this to argument right now against the antioxidants in. And I know you know this because this is your wheelhouse it

[00:20:54] Chris Burres: [00:20:54] is it now is

[00:20:56] Carl Lanore: [00:20:56] yeah. I know I know but you but you have to you have to hear these questions all the time. [00:21:00] So the first one is mitochondrial adaptation, right?

[00:21:02] Oh don't take Vitamin C before you work out or you know, you're not going to adapt and you're not going to get the returns from the workout that you want. I got a good friend Mike O'Hearn. He's been taking 10 grams of vitamin C A Day for decades. The guy is an animal. I mean he for his birthday. He just turned 40 70 did 47 squats with 405 pounds.

[00:21:25] I don't think but I don't think the vitamin C is holding back his mitochondria. He seems

[00:21:29] Chris Burres: [00:21:29] to be doing. All

[00:21:29] Carl Lanore: [00:21:29] right. Yeah. So so let's talk about that does the is there any indication from any of the science that has emerged since its Discovery as an antioxidant that would indicate that your mitochondria just don't do as well with with ESS ESS 6.

[00:21:45] Chris Burres: [00:21:45] ESS 1603 and in reality the testimonials and kind of the research show that it's beneficial, right? And so yeah, you know, it's interesting how the human body is and their their most aspects of the human body as you [00:22:00] have to stress it in order to have it be bounced back and be

[00:22:02] Carl Lanore: [00:22:02] held and that's actually one of the arguments about vitamin C.

[00:22:05] They say vitamin C doesn't really. Produce an antioxidant effect that produces a hormetic effect that then turns up antioxidant production and what let's hold that asides but I just want to throw that out there.

[00:22:14] Chris Burres: [00:22:14] Yeah

[00:22:16] Carl Lanore: [00:22:16] mitochondria and ESS.

[00:22:17] Chris Burres: [00:22:17] Yeah. So in the ATP processes that are happening C60 is that that free radical sponge and is really getting a hold of those free radicals really early on in the process and as we talked about most of the C60 is excreted really quickly in those studies right in that rat study they did also.

[00:22:36] These and so they were able to find that there was C60 present like in the livers, but they had you know, those that's just shows that the see 60s there in the fatty parts of the body still doing some of the good now now think about this right because I don't know if you kind of dug into this detail.

[00:22:53] None of the rats were treated until month 10. And they were only a treated until [00:23:00] months 17. So

[00:23:00] Carl Lanore: [00:23:00] that means that they will already adults that's really important because because things like myostatin inhibition if it doesn't happen from birth on you don't see any quality from it. So there's a lot of discussion about well, yeah, it works when they give baby rats till they're full grown, but you're saying that these rats were pretty well matured already before they introduced us.

[00:23:22] Chris Burres: [00:23:22] Yeah, they were mature 10 10 months of a 32 months. That's a thorough almost a third of your life. Yeah, right and then only for seven months. Right. So so we're in the process of we've got quotes. We're going to start another rat story because that's how science works right is step one reproduce the results, right?

[00:23:40] But in our cases were not actually going to stop giving those Rats the ESS 60

[00:23:45] Carl Lanore: [00:23:45] that's going to be anything. They could they could the goal would be that they would far exceed lifespan of that original stuff.

[00:23:52] Chris Burres: [00:23:52] Even the 90% by the way, I 90% right even 30% would be one of the best longevity study.

[00:23:59] [00:24:00] Carl Lanore: [00:23:59] No, look when they discovered clotho.

[00:24:01] They were like it extended the life of c elegans and and and fruit flies by like 25 or 30 percent and and and the people over at the Albert Einstein school of medicine will like oh we're going to get a Nobel Peace Prize for this but that backfired clotho didn't work out because. It's very high in people with type 2 diabetes and they don't live longer so that what that one down but I mean 90% that's like why aren't more people talking about this, right?

[00:24:28] Yeah.

[00:24:29] Well

[00:24:29] Carl Lanore: [00:24:29] it kind

[00:24:29] Chris Burres: [00:24:29] of is right. So so 90 percent average human would live to about a hundred and fifty two the average human would live to about a hundred and fifty two current is 80 80 something right? So that's that's just amazing.

[00:24:42] Carl Lanore: [00:24:42] Go ahead. No. No, I'm like, yeah DDI my mind is going right now and it's all selfish.

[00:24:48] It's all selfish

[00:24:50] Chris Burres: [00:24:50] need to know for me. So

[00:24:51] Carl Lanore: [00:24:51] don't just pull the plug. I just wanna have a conversation with you now, but again

[00:24:54] Chris Burres: [00:24:54] another another question that I ended. So I've been kind of on a quest for information. I've been learning all sorts [00:25:00] of stuff, you know changing from a carbon Nano. Scientists who somebody has to understands antioxidants and anti-inflammatory is whatever certainly it's in my mindset.

[00:25:08] But it but it's been a big change in for me. There were two key questions and and you kind of touched on one of them is this 90% is the longest longevity experiment on mammals known to man that I'm aware of I like so I've been looking for a year and a half. The internet is pretty good, but there may be a study out there on some mammals somewhere.

[00:25:29] So if anybody in your audience has heard of a longer one or similar one, I'd love to hear about it so far. I haven't found it.

[00:25:34] Carl Lanore: [00:25:34] Yeah, I know. I don't think I don't think it exists. I really don't and then the

[00:25:37] Chris Burres: [00:25:37] other end and it's on and it's on mammals because I think there are some stuff on nematodes and there's other stuff

[00:25:43] Carl Lanore: [00:25:43] but and wrote it and rodents, you know, not everything that happens in rodents transfers to humans but a lot of things do

[00:25:50] Chris Burres: [00:25:50] so, that's my next question.

[00:25:52] That's my other Quest. There is a number right what percentage of rodent medical benefits or detriments [00:26:00] apply to humans? I'm on a quest for that piece of information. I had a conversation with a professor at DePaul University who does rap study. So we're talking with him about potentially doing some rap studies.

[00:26:12] And he also is you have to do a rat study before you go into a human trial. I don't know if you know this but the DNA of a rat is closer to us than it is to a mouse. Right.

[00:26:22] Carl Lanore: [00:26:22] No, I didn't know that

[00:26:24] Chris Burres: [00:26:24] rats have a lot of similar DNA. So here's the so I asked him this question same kind of so, mr. De Paul Professor what percentage of rat studies and I've got his name around here somewhere what percentage of rat studies apply to humans?

[00:26:38] And he says this is the craziest story that he told me he says listen, there's one case study that people hold up as the Pinnacle. Hey, you shouldn't you shouldn't accept that what happens to rats? Happens in humans in that case study goes like this. It was a fertility drug. They gave it to rats and it made the rats more fertile.

[00:26:57] Then they gave it to humans and it created deformed [00:27:00] fetuses feel right

[00:27:01] Carl Lanore: [00:27:01] and the demise but um, I'd is that what it was?

[00:27:03] Chris Burres: [00:27:03] No,

[00:27:03] Carl Lanore: [00:27:03] I

[00:27:03] Chris Burres: [00:27:03] think that's

[00:27:04] Carl Lanore: [00:27:04] it. Oh,

[00:27:05] Chris Burres: [00:27:05] yeah. Okay sounds sounds right my director of research pulled together the paper. I'm kind of read through yet. So what his point was as well had they look at the fetuses of the Rat study.

[00:27:18] They would have noticed that they were deformed so it's Pinnacle study that says hey, you can't take what happens in Iraq and apply it to a human was actually a flawed study. It wasn't that what was happening to the rats wasn't happening to humans. So we like this is what this professor told me as the you know pinnacle.

[00:27:39] It's got to be somewhere 95% plus that what happens to a rat applies to human. Now, we got to use allometric calculations to get the dosage right and everything. But but the reality is and that's why you have to do it rat study before you can go to human trial study.

[00:27:54] Carl Lanore: [00:27:54] What about cancer? So another argument is that antioxidants can actually fuel cancer because reactive [00:28:00] oxygen species has the ability to destroy tumor cells before they they take hold in.

[00:28:07] Chris Burres: [00:28:07] So there's some research one. I would just say if you go to the original study those rats, although they live twice as long. I had no tumors, right? So so

[00:28:16] Carl Lanore: [00:28:16] and and they and they were predisposed to developing tumors. They will be wish'd are rats is what they were.

[00:28:21] Chris Burres: [00:28:21] Yes, they were with star rats exactly.

[00:28:23] You know your rats I

[00:28:25] Carl Lanore: [00:28:25] grew up in Brooklyn. I used to ride one when I was a kid ha ha ha that's a great story.

[00:28:34] Chris Burres: [00:28:34] So so yeah, so they're supposed to exert supposed to get tumors. And they didn't so that's 60 months, even though they live twice as long there's some studies that are showing as it relates to oncology that that that ESS 60 is beneficial to the drug, right?

[00:28:49] So helps the efficacy of the drug and helps protect the cells around it. Now. Those aren't in Vivo those are in vitro. And so, you know, it's still a petri dish experiment but there are some [00:29:00] results that are showing that and that really does support, you know, the fact that the the sixty two month old rats didn't have.

[00:29:08] Carl Lanore: [00:29:08] That's interesting. We're going to take a break before we go to break. I want to tell people who are interested in learning more and actually get some I think there's a it's going to be a discount code right? It's going to be shr. Yes, and if they go to my vital c.com, yeah, there's a variety of different ways.

[00:29:25] They can buy this, you know real quick. What's the different grades? And why is that important? I see the several different grades of ESS?

[00:29:35] Chris Burres: [00:29:35] So what we have on my vital see as we've just put kind of our best product in a glass bottle because that's you know, it's a liquid so it's good to have it in a glass bottle.

[00:29:45] And if you just go to my vital c.com, you kind of scroll down on the page one bottle is about $99 if you get on subscription, which of course you can cancel at any time. It's like 7495. And then the coupon code is shr and [00:30:00] and we'll set that up. You know what I had my team set it up for 15. I want to do something special for you.

[00:30:05] So I'm going to do a $25 off on the first. Wow.

[00:30:09] Carl Lanore: [00:30:09] That's huge. That's you know, please take it so. How many servings is that? And what is the daily dosing regimen for you? So if

[00:30:19] Chris Burres: [00:30:19] that's a great question, so typical dosage is about 5 mils. We have a dosage calculator on the website. You can kind of poke around and find that so what that does is it puts you at a about twenty four doses in that bottle.

[00:30:33] We've got some people who take last we've got I tend to take more but but five mils seems to do really good for people.

[00:30:39] Carl Lanore: [00:30:39] How old are you?

[00:30:41] Chris Burres: [00:30:41] I'm 50.

[00:30:43] Carl Lanore: [00:30:43] Wow, it's working. So how long have you been taking it?

[00:30:50] Chris Burres: [00:30:50] So I back in 2013 and I and this is interesting story kind of what our company did maybe when we come back from break.

[00:30:56] I'll talk about what I took and the change that [00:31:00] that study that 2012 study caused in our business. Okay.

[00:31:03] Carl Lanore: [00:31:03] Let's do that. Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll be right back with more of this and you know, I'm getting some right everybody knows them. I take everything. I take everything but I'm getting some of this.

[00:31:12] You know what I took it for a few months, but I should have kept taking it stay tuned. We'll be right back. We're talking with Chris Burris.  Guy who made the original ESS 64 the original study. His company was involved in making carbon Nano materials way back before anybody was even paying attention to any of this stuff.

[00:31:33] And so. You're going to tell a story you said it was going to be interesting is what how about you take and how long you've been taking it all out to the.

[00:31:40] Chris Burres: [00:31:40] Yeah, so so, you know in 2012 when that study came out it was a pretty revolutionary study. We are aware of it and actually in about mid 2013.

[00:31:50] We started getting phone calls like hey how much in a dose of this material and we very much had our carbon Nano material scientist hats when like whoa, whoa, whoa, [00:32:00] you know you put this in paint you put it in tires. You put it in solar cells and batteries. You don't put it in your body. And this is even though the literature was pretty clear.

[00:32:08] They had given rats. They had made rats kind of inhale it they thought it might be like asbestos because. They just excreted it like

[00:32:16] Carl Lanore: [00:32:16] the like the like the butter flavor that they put on popcorn that you microwave if you inhaled that it makes holes in your lungs, but don't forget you can eat it.

[00:32:24] It's safe crazy. It's crazy that's

[00:32:26] Chris Burres: [00:32:26] convinced you that it's safe to eat. Just don't inhale it so they injected under their skins. And again, you know, it would just get excreted out of the body. Those are just some some of a Litany of tests they had done so it was clear but we were still very much Nano material scientists.

[00:32:40] And so we added for the first time in mid-2013, not for. Consumption and so that was just our kind of thing

[00:32:48] Carl Lanore: [00:32:48] and I remember because when I took it back then when I did the show about it it said on the bottle. This is a research chemical only.

[00:32:56] Chris Burres: [00:32:56] Yeah. Yeah. Well and and so that was the mindset. I think most [00:33:00] people were following our lead.

[00:33:02] We're the largest manufacturer and distributor of carbon Nano materials on the planet. And so, you know, if and we were actually mentioned in the original paper, so it's our material that was sold to the group in Paris. Our material that was used in that original Pinnacle study. And so people kind of leaned on us at the time in about 20-30 mid-2013.

[00:33:23] We were selling a an ESS 60 with olive oil if you wanted to kind of recreate that rad experiment because you do it you have to go through a pretty extensive mixing process. You want to keep it away from oxygen. You definitely

[00:33:36] Carl Lanore: [00:33:36] got some talk about that for a second. You know, it's always been an olive oil.

[00:33:40] Excuse me. Was that an accident a why was olive oil chosen as the.

[00:33:44] Chris Burres: [00:33:44] So I'm not exactly sure. I haven't had a conversation with researchers and out of Paris why they chose olive oil. It was just one of the kind of natural vegetable oils that you know, you could dissolve a lot of the material in okay, [00:34:00] and and when I say a lot it really isn't much it's about point eight grams per milliliter, right?

[00:34:05] So that's a point. Right. It's uh, it's just excuse me point eight milligrams per milliliter. Oh,

[00:34:11] Carl Lanore: [00:34:11] that's nothing. I was going to say point eight grams. That's that's almost one percent. That's not bad. But

[00:34:16] Chris Burres: [00:34:16] yeah,

[00:34:16] Carl Lanore: [00:34:16] no.

[00:34:17] Chris Burres: [00:34:17] No, it's point eight grams per liter. Right, so you can't even get one gram to dissolve and that's when you're mixing it for 14 plus days, right?

[00:34:26] So it doesn't readily dissolve in olive oil. You've got to mix it for a long period of time. So we were selling the product and olive oil and people were doing research and you know, we were kind of getting testimonials and we're still very much a French supplement kind of business and then in 2017 a guy by the name of Cliff.

[00:34:45] He's got a huge he YouTube following he talks he. It's about finance and Bitcoins and he started talking about the benefits that he was getting from taking the product and in the industry sold out. Like everybody was out except for us like we [00:35:00] are the largest manufacturer and distributor. So we never actually ran out of the material and then coming into 2018.

[00:35:07] Really? We took how to take stock again Nano material scientist hat. Now this supplement that we didn't seek out as landed in our lap. What are we going to do with it? And for me, I've got really two key things. I think you'll appreciate this. One of them is moral. Right? Am I comfortable selling this to you or anyone else?

[00:35:24] I take the product. My wife takes a product. Everybody on my team takes the product of literature is very clear. In fact, the toxicity study doubled the lives almost doubled the lives of rats. It's not toxic. That's one check. I'm good on that side. And the other one is the FDA and FTC. And so you've got to navigate those Waters, but we're on the right side of both of those organizations.

[00:35:43] So it was really in 2018 that I started kind of pursue. We as a company started pursuing this as as a supplement in as a line of business kind of a business strategy pivot if you will,

[00:35:55] Carl Lanore: [00:35:55] so. What do you notice when you because this [00:36:00] is it so I want to ask you what you notice but then I want to I want to see if there's any research on senescent cells and ESS 60 because senescent cells are all the rage right now.

[00:36:10] What do you notice when you start taking it do you notice anything?

[00:36:13] Chris Burres: [00:36:13] So I'm going to tell a couple case studies and of course when I'm going to start talking about results, I have to say that the FDA has not evaluated this it's not intended to treat diagnose cure or prevent any disease right? Here's what I can tell you that I've noticed in me specifically.

[00:36:29] I had a left knee. I played soccer for 25 years. I had a left knee pain that was just with me, you know stuck with me and when I really started taking a SS 60 in Earnest in the beginning of 2018 that knee pain went away. In my sleep got better one of the consistent testimonials that we get is better sleep.

[00:36:48] And I don't know you've done so many podcasts. I'm assuming that you've probably done a few on sleep

[00:36:54] Carl Lanore: [00:36:54] one of the most popular topics that we do.

[00:36:56] Chris Burres: [00:36:56] Yeah. So there's a

[00:36:57] Carl Lanore: [00:36:57] boy that because everybody sleeps like crap [00:37:00] today.

[00:37:00] Chris Burres: [00:37:00] Yeah. Yeah. So there's a book called why we sleep

[00:37:04] Carl Lanore: [00:37:04] right? I've actually the author on my show.

[00:37:07] Chris Burres: [00:37:07] Are you oh, yeah, excellent crime trying to get in cut into its Heath or isn't it? Yeah, I forget Michael Michael Heath or something. Yeah. Anyway, I'm trying to get in touch with him because the consistent test that by the way for me, that was the scariest book ever because you're right. We don't sleep as much and that book was just like, okay great.

[00:37:24] If you're not going to sleep as much and you're going to accept that here are the bad things that are going to happen that

[00:37:29] Carl Lanore: [00:37:29] disease state to terrible the disease States brain disease. I mean, it's just it's one of the biggest things that I had. Try to drive home on this show is the importance of quality sleep in the things that you can do to allow yourself good sleep hygiene and better sleep.

[00:37:42] And in fact, I just did a show last week. I discovered the greatest sleep tracking device in the world and I say that with all Candor and it's $81 to my audience. Okay? Yeah, because we didn't want to take any commission from them. We were like this like we did. I just [00:38:00] want people I've been using this thing for a year.

[00:38:02] And it's amazing. I mean, it should even tracks pulse ox oxygen levels at night. I mean it does it's like a sleep study on your finger. It really is and I wear an ordering and ordering doesn't even compare just for sleep. But anyway, we've been talking about sleep forever. It's one of the most important things.

[00:38:19] That leads to disease and can save you from the precipices of disease.

[00:38:23] Chris Burres: [00:38:23] Yes. Yeah. So so all of the testimonials that we get if if it's helping you sleep better and I've got kind of two ends of the spectrum. We've got one person to give us a testimonial they could never get to sleep before one o'clock in the morning now, they're getting to sleep at 10 p.m.

[00:38:39] Write us three hours of additional sleep. That'll that'll change your life. I've got a business coach who's like for 50 years. I need an alarm clock to wake up. And since he was on the product, he's actually waking up before the alarm clock and feeling refreshed and so I noticed sleep and the thing that I noticed was sleep is I tend to sleep pretty good.

[00:38:58] I can sleep through many [00:39:00] things. But every now and then when you're on your way to bed and your brains just going nuts, right? Lots of things are going and you get in bed and at some point you're like why am I even here because nothing's got em not going to fall asleep the same thing happens on the SS 60.

[00:39:12] So like I've gone to beds, you know, since the beginning of 2018 or my brains going doesn't happen anymore, but my brain is going a mile a minute. I'm almost debating whether she even bother going to sleep and then my pet bed head hits the pillow and I'm out. And so if it's not that it slows you down by the way, most people take the product in the morning in that book.

[00:39:33] So you probably touch this, you know, the sleep aid industry is a 2 billion dollar industry and all it does is knock you out. It doesn't give you your REM sleep. Well,

[00:39:42] Carl Lanore: [00:39:42] that's the problem with pharmaceutical drugs. And I've said this on the show numerous time. My audience is probably gonna repeat it back.

[00:39:49] But just because you lay down with your eyes closed for eight hours doesn't mean you sleeping, right? Yeah and all that you will have take Lunesta. They develop a lot of the same symptoms of people who shift workers they get [00:40:00] diabetes because they're not they're not sleeping. I mean I hit you in the head with a hammer and you you lay there for eight hours.

[00:40:06] You're going to wake up and go man. I was the best night's sleep. I've had in a long time. No, no because you didn't sleep you didn't go through the undulating channels and passages and that and hormonal events that happened when you sleep sleep is a very complex thing. We take it for granted. We take a breath.

[00:40:24] Chris Burres: [00:40:24] Yeah, well so our product you take in the morning and people report that they sleep better at night. So

[00:40:28] Carl Lanore: [00:40:28] you win of you wouldn't you wouldn't want to take half your dose in the morning and have your dose before bed.

[00:40:33] Chris Burres: [00:40:33] So so really what I say is listen to your body some people and it's probably about 10% of our clients have reported that if they take them even less actually if they take it at night.

[00:40:42] It'll keep them up. I can say that doesn't happen to me, but I'm not a great test subject because I can have a cup of coffee and go right to sleep. Like I'm just not that kind of guy right and. Most people I take mine in the morning most people take it in the morning and you know report better sleep by the way, if they're [00:41:00] getting better sleep that could explain all of the testimonials that we're getting right?

[00:41:04] Yeah. It's just like all of.

[00:41:07] Carl Lanore: [00:41:07] So

[00:41:08] Chris Burres: [00:41:08] so I think that's one, you know other testimonials that are were getting it's kind of interesting because you mentioned early on it may been part of the reason that you kind of stopped is that we tend to see two kinds of people the people are a little bit more athletic will notice something right away.

[00:41:24] So I've got two testimonials of guys on my team one guy plays indoor soccer. It's a that's a Sprint sport. It's like kind of like hockey you do whole line changes because you work your butt off and then you need to take a rest. He said he took the dose the next day played a soccer game and normally he could stay on the field for about 10 minutes.

[00:41:42] After his dose, he could stay on for 20 minutes. He doubled the amount of time that he was actually State a vast

[00:41:47] Carl Lanore: [00:41:47] found that some of that could be Placebo you and I both know that's absolutely right. But but so here's an interesting fact about me. So I was diagnosed with iron Overload at the beginning of this year.

[00:41:58] And one of the [00:42:00] damning things that happens with iron overload and iron is the most oxidative of anything in our diet and accumulating iron in the body turns up. Reactive oxygen species like it's a party. Right? And and now dr. Miguel blackish-brown who's been on my show a couple times over the years the guy who really introduced rapamycin therapy for anti-aging and I just thought ID rapamycin therapy, by the way, once one day a week.

[00:42:25] I just sent him a study that links that senescent cells. Have more iron in them than the quiescent healthy cells around them. Now are they becoming senescent because of the iron ore they accumulating iron because there's senescent. I don't know but there definitely is a linkage between iron oxidative stress and senescent cells and so I'm really excited about this product something.

[00:42:48] You know, I don't know why I didn't think about the sooner when I was diagnosed with iron overload. I just should have started doing double dose of this stuff for a while and see how I feel because my muscles hurt. From the iron overload. I have classic [00:43:00] iron overload, right? I get a I get fatigued in my legs when I train them faster than I used to and that's because of the oxidative stress of the iron in my in my in my muscles,

[00:43:13] Chris Burres: [00:43:13] right?

[00:43:14] So the other testimonials and this is right in line with your talking about kind of your leg training you're not able to train your legs as much the other guy was actually a former professional football player. And his wife is a personal trainer is a personal trainer just had a kid. So that's why I said was

[00:43:30] Carl Lanore: [00:43:30] and they word

[00:43:31] Chris Burres: [00:43:31] Runnin Runnin stadiums the next day after his first dose and he noticed something.

[00:43:36] So so there seems to be something about your body's ability to process oxygen or if it's just kind of cleaned up your body and prepared gotten you into a better prep state for this training then you know, maybe that's what's happening. But we don't we don't really know what's happening in that.

[00:43:53] Carl Lanore: [00:43:53] So I'm going to put this comment up and then I have a question from a listener.

[00:43:56] Very intelligent list who's been on my show. I want to save it for the other side of the break [00:44:00] and then we're going to plug the special code again a car. This is from Tim Jackson. He's a clinician said he worked closely with a guy a researcher on C60 shared concerns about lipid peroxidation any thoughts on that.

[00:44:14] Chris Burres: [00:44:14] So anytime, you know, the first thing that I'm always going to fall back to is the original. Right. So there are researchers are working on kind of every aspect of what are the mechanisms of of ESS? 6060 in the body. And in what I just go back to is this original study and what it did for those rats, right?

[00:44:36] And I got to hold on to that because it's the only peer-reviewed published study until we've got additional additional research, but

[00:44:42] Carl Lanore: [00:44:42] about you if you think about it, if you think about it lipid peroxidation should be down regulated if and a reduction in oxidative stress. I mean, that's that's pretty you know, that that's pretty simple.

[00:44:56] Redux science there now. Obviously, you're not [00:45:00] saying that so you're an arm's length away from the statement. I'm saying it but in theory of U-turn oxidative stress down then peroxidation should reduce as well because because in Iron overload, The most harmful thing about iron love overload isn't necessarily oxidative stress, but it's the increased peroxidation peroxidation is very harmful to the body its poisonous actually bioaccumulates.

[00:45:24] And so that is also happening in an environment of increased oxidative stress. But if you if you turn those Redux. Mechanisms in a different direction peroxidation and oxidative oxidative stress both go down together. So I tell him I have a feeling that if you look up even some of the other antioxidant research out there, you'll find out that antioxidants help to lower.

[00:45:53] Peroxidation that but that's that's just that's just a guess and I you know, I don't want to I'm not a [00:46:00] clinician and a scientist in this area. That's why

[00:46:02] Chris Burres: [00:46:02] when you when you talked about this originally did you talk about the fact that that ESS 6060 is is not water soluble, right? So so maybe this is some of his concern is that it's got to be put in an oil right?

[00:46:17] So you're increasing the consumption of oil. Yeah,

[00:46:20] Carl Lanore: [00:46:20] but that but that but that but. If that was the case, then we would see the same thing from liposomal. He delivered vitamin C or glutathione because that's a that's a that's a nano sphere. That's a that's a that's a bubble of fat. Yeah, you know that that would be the same thing.

[00:46:35] I don't know. I don't know and

[00:46:36] Chris Burres: [00:46:36] what's interesting in that original study. Remember there's three groups right water olive oil and then olive oil with the SS 60 even the group with olive oil actually lived 30% longer.

[00:46:48] Carl Lanore: [00:46:48] Polyphenols at work, probably.

[00:46:50] Chris Burres: [00:46:50] Yeah, so I kind of my takeaway is anytime you have the opportunity to consume more olive oil whether it's got ESS 16 it or not.

[00:46:58] You should do that. You

[00:46:58] Carl Lanore: [00:46:58] should do it. [00:47:00] So one more time and we're going to take a less break and then we have a question from Patrick Dolan my vital c.com if you use the code, shr, you'll save 25 for $25. Yes, $25 off your first order. And you can also get on subscription which is probably what I'm going to end up doing because I think that it's time for me to take this stuff seriously in bed on it.

[00:47:19] I really do you know. Yeah, I told you when we communicated I want it to be true. I wanted to work because I'm 61 years old now. I want I want to eke out an extra Dozen Years, but not just a Dozen Years sitting in a diaper in an institution asking someone to change the TV channel for me. I wanted to I want to be engaged in life.

[00:47:37] I want to be able to move and running and and if this. If this works, I'll report very quickly anything that I that I noticed on the air. Let's take one last commercial break when we come back. We have a very intelligent question from Patrick Dolan stay tuned welcome back were talking with Chris Baris.

[00:47:56] Chris Burres: [00:47:56] The

[00:47:56] Carl Lanore: [00:47:56] website is my vital si.com [00:48:00] use the code shr save $25 off, you know, I mean, even if it doesn't make me live longer. The value of antioxidants are proven. And this is the most universal and the best antioxidant in the world period and the story no one no one debates that so Patrick Dolan said interesting.

[00:48:23] Can you ask where its present in the cell? Most antioxidants guard a specific part like cell membrane cytosol mitochondrion cytoplasm mitochondria inner membrane and so on. Any thoughts on this is that this this may not be in your wheelhouse. This may be more of a scientific question.

[00:48:43] Chris Burres: [00:48:43] So it's I will say it's not in my wheelhouse yet.

[00:48:48] So I need to do more research on this and I'll you know, take a note and follow up with Patrick on this what I can say is I know it's involved in the mitochondrial processes, right? So the ATP processes that are there and it's and [00:49:00] it's working as that free radical sponge and it seems to add benefits to that process and where exactly in the cells is it?

[00:49:08] I don't know the answer to that.

[00:49:11] Carl Lanore: [00:49:11] Do you have any customers that have been taking it for some years now? Like I mean like 10 years 8 years old know what you started selling it when in 2000 and did you start selling it in 2002?

[00:49:21] Chris Burres: [00:49:21] About 2013 mid-2013. Yeah, so and again under that at that time. We it was really for research purposes.

[00:49:28] Yeah, so I'm sure that there were people who are taking it since then and and we've got you know, our customer reports are across the board. Like I said, one of the challenges that we have and I actually was spoken in speaking with a marketing firm is like when you take the product you don't really feel anything.

[00:49:47] Like there's no surge of superhuman power. Right right

[00:49:51] Carl Lanore: [00:49:51] right

[00:49:51] Chris Burres: [00:49:51] away and and it was suggested. Maybe you should put like a little bit of X lakhs or something in the product

[00:49:57] Carl Lanore: [00:49:57] caffeine. Everybody loves caffeine. Yeah,

[00:49:58] Chris Burres: [00:49:58] right caffeine. [00:50:00] And and where we've opted not to do that. We are working on different types of formulations.

[00:50:05] We've got a pre-workout formulation. We're working on a post-workout formulation, but it's subtle, right? So you take this and you don't really notice and you know, one testimonial there's a lady in around the corner in the office next door who who is going through some oncology treatment and she talked about budget and how that was affecting her oncology treatment in like look this is like I just gave her some bottles like try this.

[00:50:29] Right. It's got some good reports and I followed up with her in about 15 days. And I was like, have you noticed anything? She goes Chris I got to be honest. I really haven't noticed anything and I said well, how are you sleeping? And her eyes lit up and she's like, well, I've actually been to you know, putting post on Facebook because I'm waking up at 5:30 in the morning and I'm rested I'm done.

[00:50:51] I'm done with sleep. And so now I'm getting productive in my day. And you know, if you slept, you know a little bit better or woke up a little bit earlier one or two [00:51:00] days. You just write it off because it happens every now and then right and you know, it starts to happen and by the time you're on day 5 of this.

[00:51:08] It's now the norm and you forgot that it ever started and so I often have to there was a guy in our office. I'll never forget this story so early on in his early in 2018. I was here at the office working on a Sunday and somebody knocked on the door. Which is very unusual where you know, we do have will call but we don't have like a retail storefront or anything.

[00:51:29] So I don't open the door failed like a very clandestine the guy was like, do you have any ESS 60 and I'm like, yes, I do come in and then I had to figure out like how to take an order because taking an order in person. Basically, I went to my computer and place an order on the

[00:51:43] Carl Lanore: [00:51:43] website. Right?

[00:51:44] Right,

[00:51:45] Chris Burres: [00:51:45] but

[00:51:45] Carl Lanore: [00:51:45] I

[00:51:45] Chris Burres: [00:51:45] remember him right so he went off and it was a number of months later. He was back in the front of our office. And so I went up to chat with him. And at the time we were running a special he's purchasing three bottles. It was his third purses purchase and I was like, so what [00:52:00] benefits are you getting and he let his response was none and I'm like, okay now the logic

[00:52:06] Carl Lanore: [00:52:06] why do you come back?

[00:52:07] Right?

[00:52:08] Chris Burres: [00:52:08] Okay. So there's two pieces to it one is if you're trying to extend your life this literally is the best research opportunity like there's no better research opportunity, right? So I get it, but then we just have this off but I'm still like you I have the same mindset as like if you're not getting any benefits, you know.

[00:52:26] At least tell me why I'm only taking it so I can live longer. I'm not expecting benefits or something and that wasn't his response. So there's this moment of awkward silence and he goes well and he gestured at his knuckles and he goes, well does it does it help with arthritis? And I said, well, you know, of course the FDA hasn't evaluated it but we are getting testimonials from our customers that it's helping with arthritis and he goes, oh, well, then I hope my arthritis and I used to have this click noise in my knee and that's gone like okay that's kind of good and then goes and I haven't job in like five years and I'm about.

[00:52:55] You know, I'm about to go on my 10th job. So you're jogging again. [00:53:00] Okay, so no real benefits and then he goes but one last thing I have less stress at work and I was like, well, that's interesting. He goes with let me clarify. I'm working with the same people. It's the same job. I just feel less stress.

[00:53:13] And and so what part of me was like, well, it's too bad. You're not getting any benefits. Yeah,

[00:53:18] Carl Lanore: [00:53:18] right. I feel bad selling it to you and then

[00:53:24] Chris Burres: [00:53:24] the other this goes back to the Sea. If if we were just helping him sleep better, right that's going to help with your arthritis, right? It's a immune disease autoimmune disease.

[00:53:36] It could potentially help with your knee because you were talking about an osteoporosis not osteoporosis, but Orthopedic kind of application

[00:53:45] Carl Lanore: [00:53:45] and I just I just found so I'm going to go through these studies I shame on me because I really didn't think there was anything new because I think I felt like well, this is rodents.

[00:53:53] Nobody took it seriously blah blah. But there's a whole schwack of new studies out there on ESS 60. Yeah. [00:54:00] Yeah, and even even topically they're using it for some some pain management topically. I'm like, wait a minute. When did they Wonder this stuff get published, you know, so I have to go back and look through it I do.

[00:54:11] Chris Burres: [00:54:11] Yeah, I'm constantly I have a my director of research is one of his things is to just read stuff and feed it to me so that I've got like as much as up to date as I can on it, right? Um, but yeah, so we so if you're just sleeping better like that's going to of course make your job list, right?

[00:54:27] Carl Lanore: [00:54:27] Yeah.

[00:54:27] That's okay. That's that's a big bun and that's a big benefit. No doubt. Yeah.

[00:54:31] Yeah,

[00:54:32] Carl Lanore: [00:54:32] so it's

[00:54:33] Chris Burres: [00:54:33] you know, it's an it's an interesting Journey that and that I never really chose. I didn't wake up and say I want to I want to help people. So I want to invent a supplement to help people. I wasn't against it.

[00:54:45] Just let's be clear about that. I didn't wake up and say I want to make lots of money and supplement seems to be the place to do that. And so let me go down that path. Literally. I'm a carbon Nano material scientist and in this landed in my lap really starting in 2018 [00:55:00] until I'm trying to.

[00:55:01] Responsibly share the word share the literature that's out there and in provide the product to those people are interested and

[00:55:07] Carl Lanore: [00:55:07] it's a lot less boring than making stuff that's going in paint. Yes lot more rewarding. Right?

[00:55:14] Chris Burres: [00:55:14] I can't say at least I don't have to watch it dry.

[00:55:17] Carl Lanore: [00:55:17] Yeah. There you go. This is fascinating.

[00:55:20] I'm definitely a back on board. And like I said, I it's not like his though. I just I was taking it for first of all, I was getting it from a sponsor at that time. Right? There was a company that had come aboard and they and that was one of the things that they had and I was taking it and I it had the one of the bottles had this murky look to it, you know.

[00:55:41] Chris Burres: [00:55:41] Oh

[00:55:41] Carl Lanore: [00:55:41] that's

[00:55:41] Chris Burres: [00:55:41] not that's not accurate.

[00:55:43] Carl Lanore: [00:55:43] Well, and I thought loose it almost looks like I had moisture. Oh and I thought you know, I don't even know if this is really, you know, the real stuff and I don't know what this just could be olive oil. It's got could be by Bertolli olive oil filling up a little bottles and selling them for all I know because I wouldn't there are

[00:55:58] Chris Burres: [00:55:58] people I can tell you [00:56:00] there are people doing that.

[00:56:01] I've seen on Facebook forums. There's like some Facebook groups and somebody was like look, this is what I got and it was it was clear. It was clear olive oil like when you add which is a good

[00:56:11] Carl Lanore: [00:56:11] point. It's a good point. So so actually from what I've read the. It's tough has a kind of red cast to the olive oil right?

[00:56:18] It's got like this this almost translucent red thing going on and I right.

[00:56:22] Chris Burres: [00:56:22] Yeah, if you put so you take a more clear olive oil. Excuse me in a more clear oil than Olive Oil like a sunflower oil and you put ESS 60 in it you're going is going to turn purple. So what happens with olive oil is it's typically available.

[00:56:38] Carl Lanore: [00:56:38] I mean, yeah. Yeah.

[00:56:40] Chris Burres: [00:56:40] Yeah green and purple so you end up with this kind of Amber murky. It's not it's not. Particularly sexy color that the purple is gorgeous, but it is what was used in the original study. And so so yeah, it's that's that's the color if it's if it looks like clear. In fact, there's a guy out there committing abject fraud.

[00:57:00] [00:57:00] And and is website see - 60 he's selling what he says is his own version of C 60 in sunflower seed oil. We took the product it looks it didn't just look murky. It actually looks it's got like like black powder in it, right and you watch as website. He's trying to prove that he has see 60s the most like really well written articles that he believes proves that he has ESS 60 60 in it, and it's kind of the reason that we're kind of.

[00:57:29] Changing the name to ESS 60 so that you know, you're getting the real stuff right some you know legitimacy behind it. Anyway, we took his product. It's got this murky kind of as if you added suit to it you filter it and what came out was clear sunflower seed oil. I just told you if you put C 60 he has 60 into sunflower oil it turns purple.

[00:57:50] Carl Lanore: [00:57:50] And it wasn't so

[00:57:51] Chris Burres: [00:57:51] basically is just carbon crap. And when you filter it what stays on top of the filter is the carbon and what comes through is just clear sunflower [00:58:00] oil. If you take that purple sunflower oil that turned purple because of C60 and you filter it. Just like sugar water the sugar comes through in the water because it's dissolved

[00:58:10] Carl Lanore: [00:58:10] a it's they are right right.

[00:58:12] It's it would that what you the other thing sounds like an emotion it was suspended and then you could take it back out. So Tim Jackson said, I don't doubt any benefits. I was just concerned about damage the cell membrane, I guess similar to what those designing Omega-3 supplements are concerned with an ad vitamin E or alcohol.

[00:58:30] Thanks. Best doctor. Tim Jackson. Yes, I get it. And you know what? I guess you could take vitamin E with this if you wanted to if you were worried about peroxidation, but again Vitae omega-3 isn't an antioxidant. That's the thing, you know, Mega threes are our fatty acids. And and so I think I think that instead of adding vitamin E you have you have a.

[00:58:55] Antioxidant and they're already so really right again. I don't think it's an issue with this. [00:59:00] I just have a strange feeling and I'm going to dig around I'm going to start taking it. I am I'm going to start using it and I'll report to the.

[00:59:06] Chris Burres: [00:59:06] What I'd like to offer to you is how about I send you a couple bottles and we could schedule maybe 30 days out and we could get back together talk a little bit more about the research and talk a little bit more about your experience.

[00:59:17] Yeah,

[00:59:17] Carl Lanore: [00:59:17] I'd love that and I'll have more information on the research to buy then. Yeah, I'd love to do that. That'll be great. That'll be great.

[00:59:22] Chris Burres: [00:59:22] We'll get you you give me your address and we'll get you a couple bottles out yet.

[00:59:26] Carl Lanore: [00:59:26] Very cool stuff. I'm glad you came on the show and. Well, I'm

[00:59:30] Chris Burres: [00:59:30] glad I actually love the kind of Email exchange that we had for this to happen.

[00:59:35] Right which is like your pitch and and it's it was very aggressively worded. Right your pitch like didn't feel honest and so you kind of rejected me and I will

[00:59:46] Carl Lanore: [00:59:46] and I but that wasn't you so you have you had an agent out there and he said he worded it so that it was easy to interpret that you you that you discovered.

[00:59:59] The original [01:00:00] material and you won the Nobel Peace Prize that I said. No these three guys did and yeah, but and so he comes back and goes. Yeah, but can you want to have them on the show? And I was like, well no like you you like you didn't even like correct your lie like you and then and then I realized he was somebody who were hiring to.

[01:00:18] Out and out outside agency that was going out and trying to reach and reach out to podcasts and you and when I talk to you you like. Oh, no, he wasn't supposed to say that that's

[01:00:27] Chris Burres: [01:00:27] nonsense.

[01:00:28] Carl Lanore: [01:00:28] Yeah,

[01:00:28] Chris Burres: [01:00:28] that's that. Yeah. No. Yeah. We don't need to give us

[01:00:31] Carl Lanore: [01:00:31] the best friendships start off with beefs. I found in life.

[01:00:34] I'm telling you when I was a kid growing up and somebody you have a fight with the next thing. You know, they were your best friend. Yeah, I don't understand that out of the way. Yeah, I yeah, I don't know why that is but it's just the way it is in life, but not

[01:00:47] Chris Burres: [01:00:47] like riding rats.

[01:00:49] Carl Lanore: [01:00:49] Yes, when I was riding rats in Brooklyn we had big rats in.

[01:00:53] If you have been wrapped in Brooklyn, very very long and very robust. So they

[01:00:57] Chris Burres: [01:00:57] I

[01:00:57] Carl Lanore: [01:00:57] look so you what you and I'll be back on the show after [01:01:00] I get to use it for a little while and we'll talk in the meantime. The audience can go to vital my vital si.com. Yep, use the code shr for a ridiculously deep 25% $25 discount.

[01:01:11] Yes, that's you

[01:01:12] and

[01:01:13] Chris Burres: [01:01:13] and again at the bottom one bottle is 99 bucks. Go ahead and get on subscription. You can cancel it at any time and 7495.

[01:01:20] Carl Lanore: [01:01:20] Yeah, and then you save 25 on your first bottle like that. Yeah. Alright good deal. I thanks for being here today.

[01:01:26] Chris Burres: [01:01:26] Man, it was great. I had a great time.

[01:01:27] Yeah,

[01:01:28] Carl Lanore: [01:01:28] and thank you for everybody listening. Tomorrow is the blueprint power hour. I'll see you then [01:02:00] .