[00:00:00] [00:00:00] hey, hey, welcome back to another episode of supremum radio had a little glitch in the beginning of the show. That may have caused. You not to hear the intro music. Hey, no loss. You know what it sounds like you have you heard it for 14 years. We have a great show plan today. Today is a product spotlight.

[00:00:18] They're going to be talking about a new product. By the way. Today is September 5th, 2019. We do have to say that from now on my guest today is dr. Greg Kelly. How you doing? Dr. Great great wonderful to be back on your show. Yeah. Yeah, and and you know, I got to tell you there's a lot of supplements that dot the landscape today and most of them take advantage of a particular ingredient maybe even two I've never seen.

[00:00:51] Products like you turn out over there at nor hacker Collective because the list of ingredients in [00:01:00] your products goes far beyond what is traditional in the supplement industry? It's amazing to me. So today we're going to be talking about cellular energy. Right one of the Hallmarks of Aging appears to be a lack of energy on a cellular level that then becomes cumulative and organs and systems the brain the heart everything starts to slow down.

[00:01:24] And we see this we see this in the gate of older people. We see this in the desire to get up and move and so on. So the theory is if you address the cellular energy, you know, it's like that old saying to take care of the pennies in the dollars take care of themselves. Are you dressed the cellular energy?

[00:01:42] Then the entire body becomes more functional. Is that a correct assessment? Yeah, I would say absolutely so. For your audience is really two main theories of Aging one of them is aging as damage accumulation. So essentially what that means [00:02:00] is as we get over older or as time passes more and more junk essentially accumulates in our cells and the housekeeping mechanisms that would clean that up just can't keep pace and the housekeeping in ourselves just like in your home or in our office requires work.

[00:02:17] The other main Theory of Aging is the idea of programmed aging and the easiest way to think of that is thick in terms of our cells are constantly running programs that allow them to adapt to the environment and. The sense is that as we get older the program shift in a way that essentially makes us senescent.

[00:02:37] It causes us to feel and experience aging and those programs also require energy and work. So at the most fundamental level for ourselves to be able to do more they need more energy and one of the commonalities no matter which Hallmark of Aging that we would look at whether that's. Issues with our DNA or Cena lytic cells [00:03:00] or cellular signaling or mitochondria performance.

[00:03:03] All of those things have energy as one of the core aspects. So we've talked a lot about cellular senescence on this show. Since around 2014 the first time I had doctor McHale blackish glowny on who did her a lot of the early rapamycin research and he's about to come back on. He just sent me a paper that he's about to publish like I was lucky enough to actually read it before anyone anyone else did so the cellular senescence discussion.

[00:03:38] Is also a mitochondria discussion is it not when we talk about cellular senescence a lot of people, you know, like people that are big fans of all ready to grade. They're like, oh well, no, you know mitochondria Theory of Aging but when we talk about cellular senescence, we are including the mitochondria when we talk about that, right?

[00:03:55] Yeah me mitochondria are in essentially all of our cells except for things [00:04:00] like red blood cells, and I know when I studied. Medicine pre-med even before that when you would see pictures of a cell you'll always see the squiggly. Mitochondrion and often you'll see two or three drawn in that image of a cell but the truth is cells have anywhere between hundreds to thousands of mitochondria.

[00:04:20] So they're always the best way I would think of them almost is that as an ant colony or beast us there a network type of intelligence that's constantly constantly reshaping to adjust to our environment. So what that network of mitochondria in a cell does. Is it's constantly almost in a sense like weightlifting or exercise if the right triggers are in the environment, it'll make that Network fitter and more capable of producing energy and part of the process of doing that is getting rid of the older mitochondria that can't keep up.

[00:04:53] So that's called bite off a g. And so that that dance of creating new mitochondria and getting rid of old ones so that it can [00:05:00] take that leftover protein. Mostly and rebuild. The network is always ongoing and one of the things that happens as we age is the the shift is that we that neither of those are really keeping pace.

[00:05:14] So the network over time becomes less and less functional. And so one of the things like with exercise, we all know that exercise is one of the only tickets to healthier aging but lots of compounds in the plant world mostly in the that poly phenyl category there what the plants tend to make those when the environments more challenging.

[00:05:37] So they're in a sense almost a forewarning when we eat them that we need to be tougher to and so what happened. I never thought about it that way so really boost since we share the environment with them those become signals for us. Absolutely. So when you think in terms of like the scene a little compounds some of the most like well [00:06:00] research currently our plant polyphenols things like fi satanic quercetin Resveratrol curcumin, so.

[00:06:06] Okay, so let's delve right into this mean we could do the entire show just talking about the variety of of molecules and and agents that you have in this amazing product called Eterna. So let me see if I get a close enough my camera May bleach it out. So instead of approaching this as going down the list.

[00:06:29] Let's talk about what's in this specifically. That would speak to let's say affecting senescent cells.  Okay. So I would say we didn't go super hard on trying to cause a lot of signal lytic activity in part because the a better way to do that is sporadically to take something for a few days a month almost like a spring cleaning up coach because when you go hard after see [00:07:00] analytics, most of those are going to kill off some healthy cells too and it's not unusual that someone would have headaches and other things so we didn't want that to be a part of.

[00:07:09] This product. Okay. Well we really wanted to do with this product is cover five big bases. So one of them is making a molecule called NAD which I know you know a lot about and I've talked about on your show and another people have heard so much about it that if there's a lot of Buzz about NAD plus and what it's supposed to do for us, but I think a lot of people are really all people think is oh it's supposed to make you younger, but maybe we can talk about why and how.

https://neurohacker.com/cell-energy/?rfsn=2553735.3edbc2e

[00:07:34] So any idea I think of NAD is allowing for three main things one. It's involved in making ATP. So your energy so that's that's its most historically known role that the two other things it does a lot of is it on activates some of these longevity Pathways? So sirtuins is a something that Resveratrol was first put on the map on almost 20 years ago, but sirtuins are what are [00:08:00] called and a conserved pathway.

[00:08:02] So everything from. Yeast amazed two routes to primates all the way up to us has this sirtuin genes system and when that Gene system gets activated its again, like almost our cellular level of responding to stress. So NAD is used really I think of it as food for the sirtuin pathway every time you activate their sirtuin pathway a molecule of nadh.

[00:08:28] So that's its second role also in that consumption role DNA repair consumes NAD molecules nad+ molecules and then the third role is as an antioxidant the antioxidant defenses so a lot of our cellular defense mechanisms NAD as usually nadph plays a crucial role there. So the Nerf to pathway is that something you've talked about on your show before that Nerf to and [00:09:00] qo1 antioxidant defense.

[00:09:02] That's the third pathway. So really NAD set sits at the heart of three crucial things for health at all age points. So looking at NAD for second so we know that there is some and you know, you never so things were talking about today could be disproved and a day or a year or ten years. But right now the common wisdom is that antioxidants are not a good thing to take before exercise because they may actually keep the hormetic effect of exercise improving mitochondrial function biogenesis and sighs.

[00:09:37] Is there anything to be concerned about using nad+? Should it always be taken post workout? Is it okay to take it before the workout, especially since it seems to energize and be part of that ATP recycle process. Yeah, I mean, I think it's important to to put things in context. So the free radical Theory of Aging was the big Theory [00:10:00] of Everything back when I was in nature Pathak School in the mid-90s and first in practice and coming out at like one of the things with theories is theories allow you to you know, ideally predict the future so the prediction.

[00:10:12] That theory allowed is all right, great if free radical damage is causing us to age taking high amounts of antioxidants should prevent that will do these trials and give high amounts of antioxidants and what research found is that didn't pan out and not know that it was actually may be detrimental as you mentioned with exercise has been more recent research.

[00:10:33] That taking high doses of like what we think of as the classic antioxidants the vitamin C is the vitamin E right before exercise that actually hinders the response to exercise and part of the reason is this hormetic response. So it's one of the things that I. Really wrap my arms around when I was a student nature Pathak school is it's what we do that [00:11:00] matters, but it's probably how we respond to what we do even more that matters.

[00:11:03] Right? So if you think of exercise is the classic example when I was in my 20s in the Navy I was you know, I go to the gym hour and a half every day six days a week, you know pump iron pump iron. I almost never gained any size and definitely compared to all the time. I invested it wasn't a really fruitful return on my investment because the piece I was missing was the response.

[00:11:26] I didn't give my body with my genetics enough time between workouts to actually integrate and respond because really what lifting does it's a trigger. Are we get bigger? Because our ourselves especially muscle tissues predicting that we're going to lift weights in the future and we better be more prepared next time so that more prepared next time that predicting the future is how our brain works how our cells respond to the environment and so part of that prediction has to do with creating just the right amount [00:12:00] of oxidative damage.

[00:12:02] And if we prevent that by taking antioxidants then we don't get the response from exercise that we would if we had done nothing. So antioxidants tend to be this Goldilocks thing like most things right and so to me, there's two things I'd have are your audience tease out that there's things that are categorized as antioxidants.

[00:12:24] So the lipoic acid the co Q 10. Those are a bit different and how we respond to them then vitamin C and vitamin A and the dose is the other key thing so high doses of antioxidants not a great idea before exercise and right after exercise, but that doesn't mean that no antioxidants would be our ticket to better performance either.

[00:12:49] Right. So most things have like some kind of a Goldilocks toes where there's a just right amount. All right. So with NAD, I would say it's the same thing. Like what I've seen over the last couple [00:13:00] years is this idea of NAD is good more of it must be even better. I know and as we build the NAD molecule our body tries to keep things in a fairly, you know, I guess narrow range.

[00:13:12] So it's happy to let us have more NAD. So what happens. I'm in my late 50s. Now I would have naturally had much higher amounts of nad+ when I was 25 and you know, at least based on current research, we would expect me to have less 20 years from now. So there's some obviously capacity to have more if we do things to make my cells younger but having more than a 20 year olds, probably not on the menu, so no matter how hard we.

[00:13:42] Push giving precursors to that we can only raise the bar so much the body of the body is going to reduce more of it on the other side right at methylates it so what happens essentially we get rid of a lot of the things and then that taxes this system called methylation. We can essentially drain [00:14:00] that if we push too hard to build any D.

[00:14:02] So what we did with that Earnest is we're doing things to build it. And we use three different molecules niacin or niacinamide and tryptophan because the body has this great redundancy that allows you to make nad+ molecule in three different ways. So three completely different Pathways and one of the things from complexity science is when you see this redundancy and systems whether you're designing an aircraft or in something as cool as our body you want to support that right?

[00:14:30] Because there's a reason that our body. Chose to have multiple ways to do this because you're obviously wants more of this. It doesn't want to be caught without it. I just want to I just want to answer one person's question here Loretta tie. I've actually done shows with dr. Burrows on deuterium depleted water.

[00:14:48] It's really not a discussion for for this today. But if you go back to the archives, I think it was probably 2017 or 2018. We did a couple shows on deuterium and deuterium depleted [00:15:00] water. You'll find all the information you need there. I also see that and I don't want to kind of Sidetrack this discussion.

[00:15:09] So NAD is very popular today. You have the approach of backloading all the different Pathways to maximize the body's own way of producing. NAD which obviously means that there's a negative feedback loop. So there's no chance that you're going to over-consume NAD which we just talked about is the American way because anything that's good more is better, but I also see you have a really unique form of B12 in here.

[00:15:39] Adenosine cobalamin I've I've always prided myself in knowing stuff doc. You know, I mean, I you know, I you know, I know that the storage forms of hydroxocobalamin. I know that methyl cobalamin is very good. I've never heard of this type of B12 talk about it. So. [00:16:00] Adenosylcobalamin so isn't the body B12 used in two different enzyme Pathways.

[00:16:04] So ones the methylcobalamin that's used on really homocysteine regulation would be the main thing you think of for that so that has a lot to do with the nervous system. Lots of cool things adenosylcobalamin is the other. Cofactor form of it and that's used in the cytoplasm of cells in energy production.

[00:16:24] So we wanted to have both and what's interesting is the adenosylcobalamin form was much more commonly used about 25 or 30 years ago. Then you find it use now. So not that it's a like incredibly hard to Source or anything but it just seems like it's been for the Forgotten. Forgotten I don't think many people heard of it before.

[00:16:45] I mean really, I mean I and I like I said, I tend to try to stay on top of this stuff and I was like, here's a form of B12 in my heard about there's a try creatine malate here may like root and this is an interesting form of creatine. [00:17:00] We know that from lots of research by the military that taking creatine.

[00:17:05] Seems to have a profound effect on the brain acai on the reason that most people take it for muscle talk about the role of try creatine malate in this in this formula surely. So I'm just before I jump into that in. What you see in the supplement World often is categories of things. So things like creatine have always been categorized in the ergogenic category writings that help exercise and sports.

[00:17:33] Then there's the nootropic category things that help our brain perform better. So what those two categories are increasingly blending together because as it turns out a lot of things that help our muscles, Help our brain because our brains literally uses 20% of our energy everyday, right? And so the creatine malate form or the try creatine malate.

[00:17:54] So malic acid or malate is used in What's called the Krebs cycle. So I think of when we [00:18:00] produce energy, it's really a process of taking the sugars and fats in our diet mostly. And then converting them ultimately to ATP and that happens to for Linked processes. So ones breaking down sugars that's called glycolysis one's called beta oxidation that's breaking down fat and the endpoint of both of those gets fed into the Krebs cycle or the TCA cycle and malate is one of the things that helps that cycle continue to move.

[00:18:27] So think of it almost like a. Ferris wheel or what are the carnival rides with the horses the Merry-Go-Round Merry-Go-Round? Okay, right. So whenever you add the acetyl COA in a comes about from breaking down fats and sugars that that adds fuel to that Circle, but any then intermediate you add makes the wheel.

[00:18:50] So malic acid is really useful for that. And so when like you could just do creatine monohydrate, but the monohydrate adds no value into our formula where hi Ali [00:19:00] does right I can see with and then creatine where that fits in so ATP is the core cellular energy molecule and creatine acts is the buffer when we deplete.

[00:19:12] ATP really quickly, so we just ran and did a Sprint or you know, really tapped into our reserves to do this. But you know squats deadlifting where we tap into to quickly replace that is the phosphagen system and creatine plays a key role in not so the other role of creatine and at least in terms of cellular energy is it's the damper system or the buffer system to make sure that we don't run dry on a TV quickly when we're really pushing ourselves.

[00:19:43] I gave my mother creatine when she had her stroke. I went to her neurologist and showed him a schwack of studies that showed that creatine help resolve the symptoms of stroke sooner and improve glucose metabolism in. In the damaged area of the [00:20:00] brain and I also showed him a study done by the military where they had third shift workers and one group took a placebo one group took creatine and the group that took creatine was able to stay alert stay awake longer and he approved me.

[00:20:12] He said yeah, that's fine. You know this can't hurt her and I just gave her three grams a day and she snapped back from that stroke very very quickly and I really do and a lot of people like well, I don't know if it was that no, I feel confident that it was the creatine because that was the only thing that we were giving her aside from what the doctors care, you know prescribed which really wasn't anything except go home and he'll so great creatine is really magic.

[00:20:37] Oh, yeah. Yeah and the thing with creatine so I just think in terms of the diet, right? What if you were eating an impeccable diet? You know, what? Would you have what amounts of different things like tryptophans the creatine because creatine we would get in our diet and the truth is if you took like your classic vegetarian that they're getting nowhere near enough creatine and even someone eating what would [00:21:00] be like a generic good diet.

[00:21:01] It's probably not quite getting enough. So what we did with creatine we didn't go super high like a bodybuilder would use what we did was to make sure we filled in that Gap. Yeah do it nicely me. That's a thousand. No, that's one gram. That's really Grilli. Great about the other thing. I find interesting is the correct me if I'm wrong, but the the calcium beta hydroxy baby Batum.

[00:21:23] Ethyl butyrate monohydrate is a ketone donor. Correct it is but mostly it's thought of as it's also been really used as an ergogenic primarily as something that prevents sarcopenia like that type of almost too much catabolism of muscle. So hmb. Plays a role there. It's also something that we saw research that it actually synergize with things like Resveratrol to make the sirtuin and do your audience know of amp K or am people and tell them tell them what it is.

[00:21:59] So I am [00:22:00] PK. There's a few core. Almost Master Regulators of things in our body so Nerf to for antioxidant defenses, so too ends for cellular stress responses and amp K is what would be considered the master cellular energy regulator. So things like creatine as an example really boost JMK which would make sense because I mentioned what a prominent role of plays in that short term ATP system.

[00:22:28] But HMV also does and especially its additive with things like Cinema and answer to and so it's a nice we often when we're looking at research. We're looking for the potential of nutrient additive effects are synergies and that and that's why our Salah casket, isn't it as well? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely interesting because I was I was curious as likewise our Sonic acid in here and now after explaining it I was like, oh I see this has a complementary role there.

[00:22:54] Yeah. So what are the things that we wanted? So what if we like we [00:23:00] had certain processes in mind, so we wanted to boost NAD. We wanted to increase ATP. We wanted to upregulate so two innings and amp K. We want to improve how your body could get sugars and fasten two cells and then turn those into energy we wanted to do things to support.

[00:23:17] Our body clock is one of the things as we age is our circadian rhythms and all of our other body clock functions tend to diminish. So when that happens the housekeeping things in ourselves tend to be more nighttime functions the using. Gee more daytime functions, but what you would see as we age is the amplitude like the difference between those two diminishes.

[00:23:41] So don't get good levels of either and key thing. This would be called hookes law, but are our eyes and our ears work on detecting change. So like imagine right now in you know your office or where I'm sitting we had a completely dark room and someone let one [00:24:00] candle that would be a huge difference.

[00:24:01] Yes. But now imagine we have a hundred candles lit and someone lets one more kind of a negligible change. Right? Right. So the quantity of changed the one candle is irrelevant. It's the proportion of change right thing and so our cells it's the same thing think of receptors as the ears and eyes of the South and so what they're looking for is the differences in things and circadian rhythms are part of what gives that.

[00:24:26] So as we age when that difference goes down all thing all kinds of things misfire, but if we can create more difference between day and night function then good things tend to happen.  That's really interesting. I just as an informational. Faces on its own because they and I've been a huge proponent of abundance and scarcity and and from an evolutionary perspective, you know, we see this in everything from growth hormone Administration to children with idiopathic short stature to fish oil supplementation.

[00:24:59] If you [00:25:00] take the same amount day in and day out you don't get nearly as good of a responses if you kind of. Mix it up a little bit, you know have a big bolus dose take some days off. And so it's really interesting that that kind of explains why that phenomenon actually is real in the body. Yes, and I got for me, I guess I think of in terms of like principles or mental models and that idea proportional change is a super important one to have because what we would see in our body it's going to adapt to anything.

[00:25:30] That you do constantly very quickly, right? The other thing that we would see is this idea of timing matters. So what you do is important, but sometimes when you do it is even more important and I'm going to ask you about timing of taking the supplements, but now I also see why L carnitine is in there because it causes cells to prefer triglycerides as a source of energy, correct?

[00:25:52] Yep. Yeah. It's essential to turn fat into energy. And in fact people take growth hormone for its fat loss. [00:26:00] Ability what people who take growth hormone strictly for its fat loss ability and not for any of the other things that it can do for you would. Do just as well taking L-Carnitine because the thing that growth hormone does is it it causes mitochondria to prefer triglycerides as a source of energy.

[00:26:21] So you burn more fat technically and when L-Carnitine the same. Yeah, yeah l carnitine is one of the I mean not what I was an officer in the Navy from 84 to 89 and was reading all the muscle and fitness magazines back then it was one of the few things that was the real deal even back then so I was going to take a break here in a minute, but I want to tell the audience a couple things.

[00:26:44] First of all if you want to try you turnus we have a super duper. Introductory price for you, not only has it been reduced and price but my audience gets an additional 15% off. By using the [00:27:00] coupon code, shr. If you go to the website neural hacker.com and in the list of product offerings, if you choose the drop-down an attorney as first you'll find a super discount immediately just chopping the price in half basically and then an additional 15% off to those who use the coupon code shr so you can try this.

[00:27:23] I have to tell you. There are there are few companies that I say this unabashedly but this company makes really good products. Based not only on current science, but they spare no expense and leave things out or don't use the doses that were used in research. You know, I mean, there's so many companies out there that they have a 67 bottle.

[00:27:49] But when you read the research that it's based on you find that it's only going to last you 15 days. There's no bait and switch with with the neural hacker hacker Collective people. [00:28:00] They definitely sell excellent products that intelligent prices. That's it. Some people look and go. Wow. This is so expensive.

[00:28:08] No, it's really not if you had to assemble this yourself, it would cost ten times more. So it's really an intelligent price and we give them an extra discount for using the code. Shr. We're going to take one quick commercial break when we come back going to talk about timing when people should take this and also what some of the results that people have found.

[00:28:30] Who started using it have observed stay tuned we'll be right back. But first thing I have to say is that old commercial from can see eyedrops has three years old. I don't know how that got into the the mix today. The other thing is that we've lost Greg Kelly. I think let's see something here.

[00:28:46] What's going on? Why is this happening? I don't see him on camera any longer. I'm gonna try. I can't disconnect him. He has to disconnect himself from [00:29:00] his end and he did so he's probably going to come back here in a second. Let's just sit tight and wait here. He comes here. He comes isn't that wonderful technology is a wonderful thing when it works and let me get there we go.

[00:29:12] Oh you're on the other side. You will switch rule artist. There you go. That's fine. Anyway, so let's talk about timing, you know. As you stated a little while ago and I agree with you. There are some certain certain things that seem to affect senescent cells like I'm using rapamycin right now for milligrams every other week.

[00:29:32] Just one day to leverage its effects I fast. At least two of those days for 20 hours because it really is going to shut em tore off for 36 hours. And so I don't want to go to the train in the gym and train with negligible benefits of putting on any new muscle. So I leverage that. And a lot of people out there don't even have to use rapamycin they can just [00:30:00] do you know 16 to 20 hour of fasts a couple times a week and they can actually have an effect on the accumulation of senescent cells.

[00:30:09] So what about timing of using a turn as for those people who fast for those people who train, you know late night and so on. What do you think? We we do have some cocoa extract in at Earnest. And the reason we put cocoa in is inside our mitochondria. The the inside membrane is called cristae, but that's where all the final steps of making ATP are done in these.

[00:30:36] I'm Christy and cocoa polyphenols these plant compounds found really in Cocoa can actually improve the function of that inner membrane. And so we think for improving cellular performance Coco's a must and Coco also has theobromine which isn't exactly like caffeine. It's often grouped together, but it can be [00:31:00] stimulated.

[00:31:00] He said in fact the xanthine is it a methyl xanthine it is and we'll turn a little bit of. Theobromine into caffeine in our liver, but it's really its own thing. Now, there's not a lot of that in this but there is some because we're using a good quality cocoa extract to get those polyphenols. So we typically recommend it be more of a early to middle of the day as opposed to a dinner time or later and all of our initial testing.

[00:31:27] We advise people to take it with breakfast. So most of our data comes from that timing and we did put things in that like Resveratrol. Is it much more of a first thing in the morning to get the best benefit from it? So you should really do anything with night. Should you take it with food? Yes.

[00:31:45] Absolutely. Okay, that's a recommendation. I've taken it without so there's no. Downside to doing it, but we just think it's it's easier often to take something with food then without if you were fasting and wanted to take it without that's you know, by [00:32:00] all means so it's not like it's better absorbed with food.

[00:32:02] If you are fasting you could take this in the morning and fast. Yeah. Yep would estimate what it enhance anything in the within the fast window would it enhance the ability for the body to you know, turn on autophagy and leverage a lot of these molecules. Well, so that one of the interesting things is compounds like Resveratrol does look like it enhances a topology and has actually been studied at least in animals preclinically with fasting and promoted that response L-Carnitine has been more studied in the context of calorie restriction.

[00:32:38] But in that context, it does also support like these cellular housecleaning things so we don't have the data on. But some of the ingredients the preclinical data would suggest yes that it would enhance that response. Okay. So this I mean it's insane whenever I look at supplements that you you [00:33:00] design and you are the formulator of this product.

[00:33:01] Correct? That's correct. Yeah. It's like it's like you must feel like it's Christmas morning and you're just going to put everything. That's really really great in here. And then I would imagine somebody Upstream from you go. Dr. Kelly like we can include all that stuff and you go but no we have two and four in order for it to be good.

[00:33:18] What in this list here are just you know, you love like this. Here's the story behind this. This is why this had to be in here? Sure. I'm well, I'll start with a few things that maybe would be less well-known. So one of them is black ginger or black turmeric is its common name its. Camp area parviflora is the botanical name and that's how it's from northern part of Thailand is where it would grow.

[00:33:43] It's similar to Ginger. It's a route but it's just cool super dark purple pigmented root and it's got a reputation in the traditional medicine systems. They are as somewhat of like an Asian like almost like ginseng but maybe even more [00:34:00] for things to do with for reality and energy. And so the current research on it has largely looked at two things libido and exercise performance.

[00:34:11] So you mentioned as the lead in that there's certain things like gait speed that decrease as we get older but one of the other things is grip strength and what grip strength does. It doesn't so much measure like how strong our muscles are as how our muscles and our nervous system. And as we age that go so that one compound in the dose be included as been shown to improve grip strength.

[00:34:35] So that's one of the reasons that you know, it's a natural fit because if you can change these functional markers of getting older that's a net positive. Sure. How do we how does it how does it do that? Does it as you point out? We've talked about grip strength as early as 2006. It was a study that came out of the VA hospital in California that attributed grip strength to [00:35:00] longevity in about 16,000 veterans at that point in time later.

[00:35:05] They did a similar study with leg press you may be aware of them. The pretty old studies and their quoted often. How does that black ginger? Effect grip is it because to me as you just kind of spoke to to me. It's not muscular. It's the I think I think of our bodies as a city and I think of our nervous system as the power grid and as we age we start having brownouts, You know be able to make that connection to that group of houses fails a little bit in the lights flicker and that's the beginning of for me for of Aging of the of the wiring harness and our body.

[00:35:44] And so I purposely do things like heavy poles and stuff like that to keep forcing new nerve Pathways new innovation to kind of over. She's super [00:36:00] compensate for those intended brownouts does does the black ginger somehow affect the nervous system? So my guess is it's more mitochondrial. So there's a sirtuins are involved in operating a bunch of mitochondrial processes.

[00:36:16] But there's this compound PCG 1 Alpha so I don't want to you know, Confuse your audience, but the key thing to remember is that's the master regulator of the process called mitochondrial biogenesis. So earlier we talked about your network of mitochondria is reshaping itself making new stronger ones getting rid of damaged ones mitochondrial biogenesis.

[00:36:38] Is that making the new stronger fitter? And the black ginger does support that pathway not that one master regulator and the polyphenols in it. Actually, we're shown in a preclinical study to be stronger even than Resveratrol to inducer two ends. Wow, so pretty cool plant, but I'm guessing a lot of what it's doing is [00:37:00] mitochondria and when our mitochondria and our brain work better the whole nervous system works better.

[00:37:05] How about dopamine any of this stuff affect don't mean I you know, I've always been fascinated with dopamine but more so now in the Aging brain, it appears that dopamine me actually be implicated in some forms of dementia and and as people age, you know, they tend to get tired in their brain before their body starts to malfunction.

[00:37:29] Is there any dopaminergic effects of any of the ingredients? Here it would be mildly in our qualia lighter products. We go much more aggressively to support that pathway in here things like Resveratrol or slightly involved in the recycling of dopamine. They tend to make that those processes work better, but they wouldn't be the main emphasis of this product.

[00:37:53] Okay? Okay what other ingredients in here are exciting to you that most people probably have never heard of. [00:38:00] Well, I think your audience. I'm sure as heard of Resveratrol, right? But like we think of Resveratrol is another one of those Goldilocks molecules and sometime sometimes concerned when I see the quantities of Resveratrol masks for it, you know say they take on people's podcast because I would never take that dose.

[00:38:19] So what we did is. We actually use a French red grape extract that has both Resveratrol and then a high quantity of 0 PCS which are another completely different polyphenol compound that are engraved and we think that that's way way better to take a so we give only 10 milligrams of Resveratrol and then about five times that amount of these other grape polyphenols and that combination we thinks way more important.

[00:38:47] So one of the things when we were looking at. The pathways that allow us to build any D. And then recycle nad+ after it gets consumed in DNA repair or for suet. Right? So two ends is this [00:39:00] one enzyme that tends to be really weak and sluggish as we age and 0 PCS from grapes or one of the few things that in animals up regulate that and allow us to rebuild.

[00:39:10] The nad+ molecule. So we think Resveratrol is great. We think it's even better when you take it in the context of a whole grape extract. So would this fall into similar category as things like their engine because I did a show. Earlier this year about using nicotinic acid and and its base form to increase NAD plus when you combine it with small amounts not ridiculous amounts because its depth.

[00:39:40] I've actually done a separate show saying. Is grapefruit really a drug because you eat if you eat enough of it, you can whack out your entire endocrine system and the people of 50 cytochrome enzyme Cascade in your liver and call you close yourself all sorts of dysfunctions. A little tiny bit [00:40:00] actually seems to potentiate nicotinic acid conversion to nad+ and a down-regulation of the is it nadh that breaks the nad+ down.

https://neurohacker.com/cell-energy/?rfsn=2553735.3edbc2e

[00:40:11] Maybe I'm getting the names wrong. But is that grape component kind of like. Yeah, so we actually do have a citrus bioflavonoids extract in internist. Now what we went after so there's a there's a range of different flavonoids in Citrus. So Dimension is one grapefruit. If you it's going to be in lesser amounts in some other Citrus extracts as well as ferritin is another one but we and we went with one that was standardized for this compound called in the Billiton.

[00:40:44] Sona Billiton is not found as commonly. Is one of the few molecules that's been shown to impact how our circadian rhythms in our liver function so I can also activate that amp K pathway we talked about [00:41:00] so it's not the only flavonoid in that sister sex track, but it's 40% of it and we think of the different ones in terms of a healthy aging that's the most important but these other ones.

[00:41:13] Certainly have roles as well. And they're in there. They're just not in there to that high-end them out. So a lot of times that these types of things like even rapamycin. I remember the first time I took my for milligram dose, I expect it to feel something, you know, feel weaker feel tired feel Sensations and and I felt nothing and this is a very powerful drug.

[00:41:36] We very powerful and you know, so I take it once every two weeks. I noticed nothing I can train. After taking it. I'm just as strong and a lot of times.  People give up on things that they don't feel. You know, that's why so many products have caffeine in them today. I mean, there's one brand of Ketone powder out there that puts caffeine in it because [00:42:00] people don't think it's working if they don't feel something is this one of those products that you really just you got to take it and you'll start to see things and you won't feel it or do you start to feel things and and how long does it take for people to go?

[00:42:16] This is really worth my my my. So I think what we saw in our initial testing has played out so far since it's been on the market and that's that most people do feel something and often quite much quicker than we anticipated. So our hypothesis was that most people would feel something over the course of a full month of taking it and what we saw is that a large percentage started showing things within five days and.

[00:42:47] And so what we would typically encourage is give the full month or trial but the things we've got the most feedback on our things that intuitively would make sense. If you had more cellular energy, but aren't necessarily [00:43:00] something you would attribute to doing first thing in the morning when you take a turn at so that's as an example sleeping better at night.

[00:43:06] We've got quite a bit of both in our initial trial and subsequently since it's been on the market of people reporting that they feel like they've gotten much more restorative sleep another. Would be better workouts which we would have guessed right that would make sense. We're doing things to prove to induce better cellular energy.

[00:43:25] We got a lot of comments about productivity. So almost nootropic. And some of those were getting were fairly quick and one of the ones that we thought was the coolest is because some of the people that were in the trial about a mix of 50/50 we're on quality has some weren't on qualia and some of the people that were on quality of felt adding this in help them to get more done at the end of the day that when they were usually cooked it kind of had built more reserves in the tank and then like speaking of like energy would be another generic one.

[00:43:56] So, This I'm not going to mention his name [00:44:00] because I don't have permission at this point. But this UFC MMA fighter has been on internist now for about two months and just emailed me on Sunday and really the three things he mentioned in it was much better energy translating into way better workouts and the third was sleep and he.

[00:44:21] I just finished the turn us about a week ago. So is of offered for a week and said, you know was evident when I was on it how much better my sleep is it's even more evident now that I'm off it so for him those were the three key things and one of the things I've noticed whether it's with qualia or attorneys is our individual experience of something can vary but the themes tend to be the same.

[00:44:44] I am actually using injectable NAD plus right now. Okay, I made this really bad mistake of taking it late last night and I didn't sleep hardly at all last night and I have to attribute it to that because it was nothing else [00:45:00] that I did. And in fact, I had to take 7 the full dose of quality of this morning to be able to function and think and work because usually when I take it I take two or three caps, we've talked about this last time around, you know, I don't need much more than that.

[00:45:19] Is there a so if I'm taking nad+, can I take it with Eterna sand? Is there any advantage because there's a lot of and more and more people are now starting to use nad+ and IV drips or injectable NAD plus is there anything beneficial of taking it with this and what about timing then? So we don't have any data on that at this point, but my biggest concern if someone that's doing that NAD infusions is that you may eventually start exhausting the methylation pathway if you're not doing something to add things back in so.

[00:45:55] The some experts I've seen in this space really feel like even at orally if you're taking [00:46:00] large doses of precursors for NAD plus that you should add some betaine so trimethylglycine in which is something that in our first version of bitterness. We didn't have that in our methylation support was the B12 you mentioned two forms of folic acid, but in the one that we just most recently manufactured we added in the between.

[00:46:24] So I think so my I guess my short answer would be I would be comfortable with someone doing this and thank ya take ya. Okay, because that actually maybe potentiate the I'm only taking 50 people are taking crazy doses right? I'm only taking 50 milligrams and I'm only doing it a couple times a week.

[00:46:42] There are people that are taking a hundred and two hundred milligrams in a single shot. And I hear that it has almost nicotinamide like effects on them where their skin literally gets flush and they end.  Dr. Bill seeds who is the chief scientific officer over at the international peptide [00:47:00] Society told me that everybody has a different sweet spot in the way you find it is that if you start to feel bad after taking an injection, you need to back down from there

[00:47:08] I've never even gotten that close. I mean, I the only thing I did notice last night. Like I said was I went to bed and I just wasn't tired and I was like, oh man, I bet you I shouldn't have taken that shot so late. Yeah because of the ATP influence on it and we know. Same thing happens if I take creatine late at night

[00:47:27] I don't want to go to sleep. I mean it wakes me up. It really does and some people it has that effect may be others. It doesn't I'm one of those people but yeah, so I'm gonna I'm gonna take my start taking this tomorrow morning. I have to be honest. I haven't had a chance to take it yet. I'm going to start taking this tomorrow morning and I will report to my audience as well

[00:47:47] My findings and I'm looking forward to taking it on the mornings that I take my nad+ as well to see what else I notice great. And one of the things that we so similar to what we've talked about with exercise and some other [00:48:00] things intermittent fasting like you mentioned where fans of doing and then resting from doing so when we tested this product out and how we recommend doing it is five days on two days off and we think in general unless someone needs to do something every day

[00:48:16] That idea of taking a couple days a week off from something is a way for the body then to actually respond to some of the messages. It's been getting from the doing of that supplementation and especially with all the polyphenols in here. We think that's very important to do. We're going to take our last commercial break stay tuned

[00:48:33] I'll tell you how you can save a bundle of money on it Earnest if you haven't heard already stated, welcome back. Thanks, so. You can save a bundle of money on E turnus and I got to tell you I'm going to say it again. The truth is he turned us nor hacker Collective isn't even a sponsor anymore. So I say this without

[00:48:57] Any fear of like oh, I'm gonna lose a spa [00:49:00] they make the best products in the world. And when you look at the list of ingredients in these things there neuro their quality of Mind quality of focus turnus becomes very evident to you if you pay attention to supplements in. That there's a lot of expensive stuff in their products also quite often their product require

[00:49:25] You take quite a few capsules, which generally and I haven't looked at each other as how many do you have to take of Eterna stock? The full dose is a tad a yeah. So, you know, this is my example is what I say, you know, when you look at these studies and you go they gave these people 3 grams of something and this is what it did and then you go to GNC and you buy it and it's two caps has a is a serving

[00:49:46] And you realize to caps has is 1/16 of what they used in the study and you realize in order to get the results in the study this 60, you know serving bottled is only going to last you 15 days, you know, [00:50:00] there's a lot of caps in the serving because there's a lot of really amazing ingredients in these products and you can't do it in one or two caps

[00:50:10] And and so people probably think oh man, this this stuff is so expensive. It's not expensive. It's called intelligently price, right? You don't look at a Ferrari the same way. You do a Prius, right? You don't go. Oh man, you know, you know that Ferrari is so, you know the Ferraris expensive because the car is really well-made there's a lot to it

[00:50:31] And so that's how these products are from nor hacker Collective. If you go to neuro hacker.com. And you go to the product drop down and go to eat Earnest. First thing you're going to find out is that the price is literally almost cut in half first of all, and then when you add the coupon code shr for my audience you save another 15% now

[00:50:56] That's off your first bottle people who are going to go well, wait a minute [00:51:00] the second and third bottle of really expensive know they're intelligently priced. But what the company has done is they've put skin in the game to get you to try a bottle because you're going to either notice or not notice and if you don't notice then you don't buy anymore and you're not out but if you do notice anything wow

[00:51:19] Like this stuff is a game-changer then you continue to buy it. And so for those out there who are just looking to kick tires. You may not be as happy as people were legitimately looking for solutions that certain supplements can provide and and there's there's nothing there's there is an another supplement company out there that I've seen

[00:51:41] That puts the work into formulating like dr. Kelly does I mean really you there's a lot I'm sure there's a lot of things you could have just left out of here and no one would have ever noticed. But you knew that it was going to be a game changer. Yeah, my one of the owners is like super hardcore [00:52:00] Science biohacker Guy, I don't think he'll let me cut Corners

[00:52:03] This stuff is good and you know. We don't have a lot of products because before we launched something we have to feel confident that it's really making a contribution and that takes a lot of time and testing often to get to a point where we're confident putting our name on something and out in the market and it's part of the reason that we do offer the money back guarantee, if people you know, where to buy at Ernesto qualia, and it doesn't work for them

[00:52:29] That's great. We we expect just because of human individuality that this probably nothing we could do. That would work for everyone right? Our goal is to make sure that. By the time we launched a product we're confident. It's going to work well for about four out of five people or more. So not good

[00:52:46] And then the other thing is you mentioned it and we talked about it last time when we talked about qualia. Is that both you and I actually don't take the full dose typically, right you take three or so I usually take for what a days [00:53:00] when I didn't get as well like as much restful sleep or I'm gonna drive from San Diego to Santa Barbara

[00:53:08] Be at a trade show something like that. I'll take the full dose because I'll be a little more tax that day. Right? So whether turn is we've tested out the full dose, but we do have some anecdotal feedback from people taking 1/2 toes. Even a few people taking a quarter dose that have mentioned for them that that's worked fine

[00:53:27] So we're always really. I guess big fans of self-experimentation because this is the dose. We recommend doesn't mean that you need to take the full. Don't find your own sweet spot. I like that and that's you know, and we're coming to that in medicine today, too. You know, we lots of doctors pay lip service to individualize medicine, but they prescribe the same things to everybody

https://neurohacker.com/cell-energy/?rfsn=2553735.3edbc2e

[00:53:52] They just spend a little more time making them feel like oh I hear yours now when they went individualized [00:54:00] medicine means you didn't get the same exact thing as the person before you or the person after you. So yeah find your own sweet spots. I love it. Listen. Thanks so much for being on the show today

[00:54:09] My pleasure. Thanks for having me back and we'll have you again I'm sure that you're going to come out with another Landslide product before we know you what are you working on? Come on, just give me a little peek under the 10th. Come on. Well, we actually going to be launching a nootropic liquid shot like a two-ounce form factor the middle to the end of October

[00:54:28] So super excited about that. I've been working on a sleep product for you know off and on I would say since last fall. And we don't feel like we're we feel like we're going to go in two directions with it. So we're going to probably still do something that would be immediately prior to bed for people that have a difficult time falling asleep

[00:54:49] But what we're really focusing on now is something that you would take with dinner that would help you get more restorative sleep. So you wake feeling more refreshed than x [00:55:00] prime prime to sleep. Yeah. Right, and so that you'd almost have annexed a nootropic effect. So that's what we feel like we're getting pretty close to that

[00:55:07] So we'll see how testing goes over the next couple months and then a few other things that we are working on but earlier stage would be anxiety pain actually have very similar interacting mechanisms for lack of a better word and there was a reason. Thing in the medical news about this one woman that genetically didn't feel pain

[00:55:33] But also because of that never had had a bad day it affected her ability to have moved so that I think of that system as the Bliss system. So that's something that we're starting to put together some trial recipes of ingredients to see if we can make a difference very cool very well. I hope to have you back on when you launched some of these new products

[00:55:51] Okay, great. Thanks a lot. Dr. Kelly and thanks to everybody for. Listening and watching today will see you tomorrow with more superhuman [00:56:00] .