[00:00:00] Carl Lanore: [00:00:00] hey, welcome back to another episode of superhuman radio. We have a great show planned for you. Today. We're going to start out during the first hour talking to doctor Milan Droite fee about his new book doves diplomats and diabetes a darwinian interpretation of type 2 diabetes and Related Disorders right up my alley.

[00:00:20] You know that. Then we're going to change it up and we're going to be joined by TNA superstar Rob Terry. As we talked about the training styles that enhance coordinated working relationship between the nervous system and muscular systems. Very very important in short. This is functional Training 101.

[00:00:39] It's going to be good stuff because here's a guy who is Big 300-pound agile athlete who obviously understand something about functional training.

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[00:01:20] What do you have to lose other than. A few pounds of fat. Welcome to the show. Dr. Wahby. How are

[00:01:29] Dr. Milind Watve: [00:01:29] you? Fine?

[00:01:30] Carl Lanore: [00:01:30] Hello. Okay. So first of all, why did you why did you take the time to write this book? What is it that inspired you to write the book doves diplomats and

[00:01:39] Dr. Milind Watve: [00:01:39] diabetes. Yeah, that kind of any launch is clean.

[00:01:44] I was trained as a microbiologist and biochemist. But then I shifted to Wildlife Research and I worked on wild animals. I worked on elephants and a number of other mammals in some of the Indian national parks and [00:02:00] centuries and while doing that I was actually looking at the health aspects of wild animals and while doing that I picked up the concept that the disease is an ecological process.

[00:02:11] Okay. So at that time I was looking at parasite and infectious diseases of animals. Okay later on the same concept. I found useful for non-infectious diseases like diabetes as well. Okay, and so I actually interacted quite accidentally with a diabetes research group. And when I looked at their work and their data I said that I can see ecology here.

[00:02:37] And that's how we got into developing a

[00:02:41] Carl Lanore: [00:02:41] concept. Okay. So this is really an intriguing concept to me. First of all, because one of the things that I've been saying a lot recently is the relationship between modern disease and what we know about evolutionary downward pressures. Yes [00:03:00] selection pressure.

[00:03:00] So, you know, I've said things on the show like. Childhood obesity is an all-time high when these children become obese as children. They tend to have fertility issues later on. This is this is the body's way of selection pressure. We're going to have children who. Will not be able to pass on their genes lines in a hundred fifty years from now, the gene pool is going to be affected because these children will not be able to reproduce their erasing their Gene contributions.

[00:03:30] This this is the new evolutionary selection pressure. It's not famine. It's not yet Ice Age. It is actually in my humble opinion. It's about information your information about nutrition information about disease in general will. End up causing this new evolutionary selection pressure. What do you think about that statement of my off-base completely or might even a partial

[00:03:57] Dr. Milind Watve: [00:03:57] correctness?

[00:03:57] Yeah, well Evolution has not stopped unlike [00:04:00] some people believe that now there is no evolution in humans, which is not true evolution is a continual process. We will keep on evolving. Although it's a very slow process and the modern challenges are different than the challenges that we faced in the past.

[00:04:14] But evolution is a very slow process. So when the when the nature of challenges change our biology doesn't change that. Okay. So now you are right that the challenges today are very different and evolution in future might take a different shape. It's extremely hard to predict what shape it would take.

[00:04:38] Okay.

[00:04:39] Carl Lanore: [00:04:39] Okay. So now let's talk a little bit about let's go back to the book for just a moment. Okay in the book you you delve into type 2 diabetes or metabolic syndrome, whatever you want to call. And and what what have you identified between the relationship between evolution and the development of [00:05:00] these diseases in

[00:05:02] Dr. Milind Watve: [00:05:02] modern?

[00:05:03] Right. So the concept has been around for some time for for quite some time. Actually that there is a mismatch between the the challenges in which we evolved in the challenges that we face today are the people have mostly talked about diet, but that is not the only thing a lot of things have changed and I am mainly looking at Behavior.

[00:05:26] Okay. So so a lot of human behavior. For sure relationships have changed for example feeding was always related to foraging in the past. Right? So today's food is not related to foraging it is completely. Figure negated. Okay, so we don't have to hunt we don't have to gather in order to feed.

[00:05:49] Okay, and then many of us of the mechanisms of food regulation are related to foraging. Okay. So food regulation in humans is not entirely of [00:06:00] metabolic thing. It is a lot of lot of Behavioral mechanisms involved in regulating food intake now today all these behavioral mechanisms have vanished. So for example our ancestors where they're scavengers, they were Hunters they were gatherers in all these activities.

[00:06:18] There is a risk involved. Okay. So if you are Scavenging you are competing with other carnivores if you are hunting then it's it's a it's a risky activity. Even if you are gathering if you're just foraging out in the wild there is a risk of predation. Okay, there are creators around you. There are large mammals.

[00:06:40] Around you like Elephants or rhinos, and then you have to forage in spite of this risk. Well, which means that you have to optimize your foraging as opposed to the desk. So if you're already full you will not go out and forage because it's unnecessarily

[00:06:59] Carl Lanore: [00:06:59] taking because [00:07:00] the danger it's a dangerous

[00:07:02] Dr. Milind Watve: [00:07:02] practice, but foraging either dangerous activity.

[00:07:06] Right, so and then this is linked through some biochemical Pathways. So there are two peptides in the brain called cart and Alpha msh and these peptides interact with leptin, which is produced by adipose tissue, right and the interaction of these three peptides is such that if you have more of that you have more of leptin and Left End regulates the production of cotton Alpha message.

[00:07:32] So if you. More left in you have more of cardinal five message and these are fear peptides. So they keep you

[00:07:42] Carl Lanore: [00:07:42] alert alert to fear Vigilant Vigilant like

[00:07:45] Dr. Milind Watve: [00:07:45] right? Yes. So if these peptides are higher than you are a risk avoidance, which means if you're fat levels are high your leptin at levels are high you will be a disc a wider and therefore you will not go out and forage.

[00:07:59] And I [00:08:00] don't hand if got an alpha message. Our levels are high. It means that the perceived risk is more. Then the left in action is is is higher it leptin is more active which means that even if you have lower levels of leptin you will not go out. Right. Our systems are designed in such a way that we D systems link.

[00:08:27] Feeding with risk optimization, right? And that's how our feeding intake is

[00:08:34] Carl Lanore: [00:08:34] controlled. Now. How does that how does that how does that relate to today that we don't I mean approaching the refrigerator? Or the cupboard is not as scary scenario.

[00:08:42] Dr. Milind Watve: [00:08:42] So what my Belinda this activity at all and therefore our food regulation mechanisms, which evolved for hunter-gatherer life are no more

[00:08:52] Carl Lanore: [00:08:52] effectively.

[00:08:52] Also, you know what you just solve the whole obesity problem. We just have to put poisonous snakes in front of the

[00:08:59] [00:09:00] Dr. Milind Watve: [00:08:59] refrigerator. Well, there are alternative for example any any kind of aggressive activity. It could be football, right? Okay for any kind of aggressive activity increases these peptides.

[00:09:15] So the simple thing is to take part in aggressive games, right? So it is not burning calories. It is the the kind of hormones and these peptides that respond to behavior interesting very interesting.

[00:09:29] Carl Lanore: [00:09:29] This is an aspect that we have we've talked about. The relationship between obesity and behavior from the standpoint of the reward system that has been elucidated to a great degree.

[00:09:43] We know that certain Foods present' reward almost drug like effects to the brain. This is an obvious is the this is the braking mechanism. That's the gas pedal. This is the braking mechanism that keeps the body from wanting or [00:10:00] more food, but it's not related to appetite it's related to. Appetite not being as important as

[00:10:08] Dr. Milind Watve: [00:10:08] fear, right there is an interaction between fear and appetite and we have lost that interaction.

[00:10:15] Carl Lanore: [00:10:15] Now. Wow, that's interesting. That's amazing. So now I mean if you are an evolutionist and you're looking out then there's going to be a new regulator we would. A new mechanism that will start to evolve as part of the ecology evolved into us to help make up for that. What about the what about the what about this this theory that those who are obese or actually genetically gifted because the being Thrifty and producing fat was a good thing and a time when food was scarce and predictability of food was

[00:10:52] Dr. Milind Watve: [00:10:52] scarce.

[00:10:53] Yeah, this concept has been there for from the 1960s. So there's a person called James Neal for [00:11:00] who talked about Thrifty Gene for the first time for his time and the knowledge that he had. It was an interesting concept. But today we know that the fifth thing does not work for a number of reasons number one if you compare two species, which are really Thrifty for example the migratory Birds.

[00:11:19] Right that store fact for a long time and during migration. They burn it out. Okay, and they can migrate for 3,000 miles and so on right so they have this very very beautifully built physiology in which they can store fat and they can burn the fat when needed and during migration. They may not feed at all.

[00:11:38] They completely survive on the stored fact. Well that kind of physiology. We just do not have. So then human starve we start burning muscle proteins much before our fat storage is consumed. Well as these birds will completely utilize the fat. Okay, they will not [00:12:00] utilize proteins. So actually human bodies are not built to store fat and utilize it efficiently.

[00:12:07] Okay, so we are not really built in for free. The other point is if Thrift is adaptive when it is adaptive to everyone. Why should there be a polymorphism? Why should some people be more prone to to become obese and others not. Okay. So there are a number of number of problems with the Thrifty hypothesis and it is under attack during the last decade or so a number of people have criticized the thriftiness.

[00:12:37] So at some stage we have to give it up and we have to look for

[00:12:43] Carl Lanore: [00:12:43] alternative. Okay II have I were going a little long. I have one more question because then we go to the break. I want to change the discussion a little bit but my audience and myself we are engaged in heavy resistance training and that [00:13:00] training puts us in positions quite often where we are to some degree.

[00:13:07] Tentative or even afraid those of us who say perform squats and deadlifts with very very heavyweight hundreds and hundreds of pounds. We know that there is a fear component when. Getting ready to squat you're anxious you're nervous about this and then you are because you're worried that maybe a vertebrae will break or maybe you won't be able to hold the weight in your collapse and so on so exercise like that that has a fear component.

[00:13:40] Does that change those of us who engage in that kind of exercise or maybe the rugby player or the football player where there's always the threat of injury. And the body is being pounded. Is there is there an advantage to for those of us who engage in that in that that those peptides that are linked to fear [00:14:00] and our ability to maintain say a normal body weight or lack of body

[00:14:07] Dr. Milind Watve: [00:14:07] fat?

[00:14:07] Yeah, I would say that the aggression component of exercise is extremely important aggression and the frequency of minor injuries. Okay, which were actually extremely common in the wild. Venu venu walk out when you walk out without shoes or without any protective cover and walk through the Wilderness through Thorns through the bush and everything minor injuries is extremely common.

[00:14:37] Now today, we have stopped getting injuries. We have stopped even anticipating injuries, right and this injuries are anticipation of injuries again stimulates a number of other peptides which are called growth factors. So so there. All sectors like EGF epidermal growth factor, right our nerve growth factor called in GF P.

[00:14:58] There are [00:15:00] very beautiful experiments, which show that these growth factors are not only triggered by injuries. They are triggered even by anticipation of injuries. Okay, and these growth factors are involved in so many things EGF is involved in beta cell regeneration beta cells that make insulin really is if is involved in stem cell division.

[00:15:22] Okay, EGF is involved in wound healing and so on. Yes, right. So when our injury anticipation and at the frequency of actually getting minor injuries headed as reduced so much now there is a growing deficiency of growth factors in our

[00:15:38] Carl Lanore: [00:15:38] life. This is so intriguing and I'll tell you why and we have to take a break because we're going along here.

[00:15:44] This is intriguing because when we look at Social paradigms that are shifting, they're great. They're a great shifts towards men being more feminized aggression aggression is seen as [00:16:00] a bad thing. And when we talk about aggression from this standpoint from an ecological process from a evolutionary process, it's clear that that aggression actually plays could potentially be playing a role.

[00:16:14] I don't dr. Wahby. I don't believe that just one thing is causing the Obesity epidemic. I believe that there are there's a plethora of reasons that are all have all come together at one time. To cause obesity in the epidemic levels that we have today and one of those things could very be very well be that we have been bred out of aggression aggression is not a popular thing any longer.

[00:16:41] That's very interesting. I we have to take we have to take our break. And when we come back, we will be talking more with dr. Milano waffie. If you want to get this book and it's a great book. It's called doves diplomats and diabetes a darwinian interpretation of type 2 diabetes and Related Disorders.

[00:16:58] There's two ways to get it you [00:17:00] can go to amazon.com. To get the hardcover or you can go to Springer for the e-book. So if you are one of those people who is anxious and don't want to wait for the book to ship to you Amazon.com or Springer. I guess that's Springer.com and download the e-book their stay tuned you're listening to superhuman radio where we will keep aggression alive.

[00:17:28] Dr. Milind Watve: [00:17:28] Fulbright

[00:17:31] Carl Lanore: [00:17:31] back welcome back to super human radio we're talking with. Dr. Milan wat be about his book doves diplomats and diabetes a darwinian interpretation of type 2 diabetes and Related Disorders. You can get the book at Amazon.com or the e-book at Springer.com. I want to I want to stay with this concept for a little longer and then and.

[00:17:52] For go my next question because I will save that to later in the show since we're talking about aggression. We're talking about the effects of aggression on

[00:17:59] Dr. Milind Watve: [00:17:59] the brain. [00:18:00] And basically I would I would differentiate between aggression and

[00:18:03] Carl Lanore: [00:18:03] violence. Yes, of

[00:18:04] Dr. Milind Watve: [00:18:04] course of gas. So yeah, so so the modern society should be based on our should be going towards zero violence.

[00:18:12] Yes, that is

[00:18:13] Carl Lanore: [00:18:13] desirable Yeah by violence violence and aggression of to various different things. You can be aggressive in a sport and no one and you're not perpetrating a crime and that that's not what we're saying here, but in chapter in both chapter 6 and chapter 7 you talk about. I'm soldiers and diplomats and you characterize these two types of personalities if you will and and went to express aggression and went to suppress it.

[00:18:37] So let's address one to express aggression went to suppress it as an example of we're not promoting violence

[00:18:43] Dr. Milind Watve: [00:18:43] here. Yes. Well, if you if you look at the origin of aggression, there are two natural causes of aggression one is related to food. The other is related to sex and

[00:18:54] Carl Lanore: [00:18:54] reproduction

[00:18:55] Dr. Milind Watve: [00:18:55] interesting.

[00:18:55] Thank you, and then aggression [00:19:00] is risky. And therefore you should you should use it very discriminately only when needed right? And therefore when you have when you just had food when you have a stomach full or when you have have sufficient fat in the body, you should avoid aggression. Okay, now now visualize typically what happens over a kill in an African savanna a large number of Hina.

[00:19:25] And lands and all kinds of predators and scavengers have to fight for their share right now. If you already have a stomach full then why should you go and fight because that is unnecessarily risky, you are not desperate for food and therefore storing of fat is negatively correlated with aggression and there are a number of biochemical pathways through which this happens.

[00:19:50] So fat is negatively correlated to aggression both ways. So it's a two-way conversation. If you have more fat you would be less physically aggressive. Well, you might [00:20:00] be verbally aggressive. That's an entirely different, right? Okay. I'm talking about physically aggressive. If you are fat and particularly have abdominal fat then you are less likely to be physically aggressive on the other hand.

[00:20:11] If you are aggressive you are less likely to accumulate abdominal fat because again, there are Pathways that do it. In Turkey. So for example, it is toasted on which is related to aggression increases the beta adrenergic receptors on fat cells. Now these receptors take the Simpsons the sympathetic signal and that sympathetic signal is lipolytic right?

[00:20:35] So if you have. A combination of testosterone and sympathetic activity then the abdominal fat is burned off very quickly. Right and therefore a man with high testosterone is less likely to be abdominally obese, right and there is plenty of data showing this right. So there is a two-way negative relationship between fat and aggression and particularly abdominal fat and [00:21:00] aggravation.

[00:21:01] The same is true. So so if you have a stomach full or if you have stored fat then you will avoid aggression. The second is if you have lost your reproductive potential then again, a major motivation of aggression is

[00:21:14] Carl Lanore: [00:21:14] lost. Why you bother you if you've lost your

[00:21:17] Dr. Milind Watve: [00:21:17] wat your

[00:21:18] Carl Lanore: [00:21:18] productivity. Oh, yes, of course, of course,

[00:21:20] Dr. Milind Watve: [00:21:20] right then, of course then again, the one major motivation of a great speculation has lost so you will become non aggressive the third is if you are weaker than the opponent then it is wise to avoid

[00:21:33] Carl Lanore: [00:21:33] aggression and seal and actually and there's been recent studies.

[00:21:37] To identify the linkage between testosterone and aggression. Okay. Yeah and the because there's always a lot of you know, discussion about testosterone begets aggression and violence and and the recent research that was done on rodents where they gave they castrated rats and then they injected them with the equivalent [00:22:00] of seven thousand times the normal testosterone levels that they would produce in a single day.

[00:22:06] Yes, and they then they put them and confronted them in several social situations and what they learned was that testosterone did not keep them from Reading social signals. So they put them with another castrated rat and they antagonize the rat and the rat did not attack the castrated route because he sensed that there was no threat.

[00:22:26] Okay, but what they did to determine what want once the rat did decide that there was a legitimate theft. The testosterone caused a greater response in aggression. That's what but it did not cause. Misdirected

[00:22:41] Dr. Milind Watve: [00:22:41] aggression. Yes, insert. The decision aggression. In fact aggression is highly context-sensitive.

[00:22:48] Right? And if if some person shows a context insensitive aggression, I would say that is that is pathological. Yeah. So aggression is highly context-sensitive and the [00:23:00] context says that there are mean these three contexts. That your desperation for food your desperation for sex and reproduction.

[00:23:11] And the third is how do you weigh yourself against the opponent? If you if you weigh yourself as weaker, then you will avoid

[00:23:20] Carl Lanore: [00:23:20] aggression.

[00:23:21] Dr. Milind Watve: [00:23:21] Right, right. So the muscle the muscle power or muscle strength as as well as muscle energy supplies also extremely important. So for example, they appear elated the enzyme called PPC K in muscle.

[00:23:36] Nothing else just one enzyme were upregulated which changes the metabolism and the muscle become almost immune to fatigue and these are at became aggressive. Okay, you didn't give any Hardman or it didn't make change any neuronal change just the muscle energy Supply was increase and these animals became aggressive.

[00:24:00] [00:24:00] Okay. So sensing some where the body Sensors how your muscles are. What is the condition you of your muscle and bone and then your aggression also depends upon your own judgment of your

[00:24:14] Carl Lanore: [00:24:14] strength.

[00:24:16] Dr. Milind Watve: [00:24:16] interesting. Yes is thing God I'm just gonna leave these PPC K.Michelle overexpression animals.

[00:24:22] They're also extremely insulin sensitive.

[00:24:27] Carl Lanore: [00:24:27] The insulin

[00:24:28] Dr. Milind Watve: [00:24:28] sensitive,

[00:24:29] Carl Lanore: [00:24:29] right? Okay. So what signal do they get so in other words when insulin is high? Does it create a greater sense of muscle strength or when insulin is

[00:24:40] Dr. Milind Watve: [00:24:40] low know when you are insulin sensitive and insulin is

[00:24:46] Carl Lanore: [00:24:46] low? Oh, I see what you're saying.

[00:24:47] So when you're when you are when you're sensitive to insulin as opposed to being insensitive or near near diabetic, when you're the greater the insulin sensitivity the greater the muscle

[00:24:58] Dr. Milind Watve: [00:24:58] function. Yes. Yeah that makes sense the [00:25:00] time high levels of insulin increase a diplomat kind of behavior. That is they it increases memory and some kind of problem solving and cognitive tasks.

[00:25:14] And decreases rapid action and aggression interest and it is taking okay. The insulin has a lot of Behavioral effects which are independent of glucose. So regulating glucose is only one of the things that insulin does in the body insulin does so many things in the body. Okay, somehow we have Associated insulin with glucose because that was the one of the first things to be discovered, right?

[00:25:40] But now we know that insulin is involved in so many things it is involved in sexual behavior. It is involved in risk-taking. It is involved in memory cognition and so on. Okay, so when you say insulin levels are high or low, it is not only glucose that is affected. Everything is going to be

[00:26:00] [00:26:00] Carl Lanore: [00:26:00] affected.

[00:26:01] Because the body because the body interpret when insulin levels are low if I'm understanding this the body the message the body gets. Is possibly it's time to feed again. So the muscles will appear stronger. The body is reading it ready readying itself for Apple the potential dangers involved in

[00:26:22] Dr. Milind Watve: [00:26:22] foraging yes interesting.

[00:26:24] Yes, that that could be true on the other hand. The insulin levels are high when you need to be socially manipulative. This has been beautifully demonstrated in chimpanzees and and Bonnet macaques. Okay, so you have let us say an alpha male who is strong dominant? And there are many subordinate means people have measured c-peptide level which reflect actually insulin levels in their body the dominant and [00:27:00] strong.

[00:27:00] Means I'm and it is not only restricted to males but there are more studies on means the dominant individuals are insulin sensitive and the weaker and subordinate individuals are more insulin resistant. And this is this is there in normal normal social primates in the absence of any dietary

[00:27:22] Carl Lanore: [00:27:22] intervention about that was by work to see that's my question.

[00:27:24] So is it could insulin sensitivity? Changes in the landscape of insulin sensitivity do they occur independently of dietary interventions. In other words. I always think of insulin as a response to postprandial meals a production. But but are you is it some people just going to become insulin insensitive at different times as a result of the social signals are

[00:27:56] Dr. Milind Watve: [00:27:56] getting.

[00:27:56] Yes, so I'm not denying that insulin response to [00:28:00] diet incident does respond to diet of course, but if you look at fasting levels of insulin, right, then it relates to social status and social

[00:28:11] Carl Lanore: [00:28:11] behavior. I'll be darned. So if you are if the goal is to be leaner. Then what social because actually I don't want to say that yet because that's actually the next question I have for you when we come back.

[00:28:24] We have to take a break why population density matters and I have a feeling that this is leading into that. Is it

[00:28:31] Dr. Milind Watve: [00:28:31] not? Yes.

[00:28:31] Carl Lanore: [00:28:31] Okay. So let's do this. Let's take a quick commercial break. This is an intriguing intriguing discussion looking at the etiology of disease. Not as. Something that has gone wrong, but as part of the evolutionary landscape, you must get this book folks.

[00:28:48] This book is a game changer. You can get it at amazon.com in hardcover or downloaded as an e-book at Springer.com. Doves diplomats and diabetes [00:29:00] a darwinian interpretation of type 2 diabetes and Related Disorders. This is amazing stay tuned. We'll be right back. You know, this is an amazing interview.

[00:29:09] I don't know if many of you. I mean my the wheels in my head are spitting dr. Wahby, because we know that soon after. Young couples become married they have children and then they blow up like Balloons with fat and and this and from from the standpoint of evolution in this is the natural progression of what it should what should happen to them because the need for for procreation has subsided they've achieved that food is abundant.

[00:29:40] They have a refrigerator that stalked all the time and and they and they must become more docile less aggressive because they're raising children. Bingo. this is

[00:29:51] Dr. Milind Watve: [00:29:51] amazing. Yes. In fact a number of things are behaviorally related to each other by Behavior. [00:30:00] I mean behavioral strategies. Okay, the way you behave socially will influence your reproductive strategies see for example, if you are a weak animal and you are not going to get good chances of reproduction, maybe if you are a male you are not to you don't have good access to females right there are stronger makes around or you if you are a female the stronger females have occupied the best Nest sites and you know you are.

[00:30:31] With no, no goodness, right? Okay. So this can happen now if this happens then the best strategy for you is to postpone your reproduction. And if you have to postpone your reproduction when you have to do two things you store energy right now with the assumption that you are going to reproduce later.

[00:30:53] Right until storing fat is adaptive. If you are weaker, the the other thing [00:31:00] is just as you need to store fat you need to avoid risks so that you ensure that you will live longer and wait for another opportunity to reproduce because you cannot reproduce now. So a number of things are interrelated and accordingly the biochemical pathways are also interrelated.

[00:31:20] So the pathway for regulation of food the pathway for homeostasis of glucose the pathway for ovulation and spermatogenesis cannot be independent of each other. There are linked. And they are going to because there are behavioral link. Yeah right now similarly if the population density is high you need to change your reproductive strategy.

[00:31:46] If the environment has a lot of opportunities to grow then you will reproduce more you will make more offspring right but on the other hand if the environment is saturated, the population is saturating, then it [00:32:00] is wiser to make fewer Offspring but invest more in each. Okay, so the reproductive strategy change according to the population density.

[00:32:10] Is there a high population density? It also means that there is going to be more competition

[00:32:14] Carl Lanore: [00:32:14] for

[00:32:15] Dr. Milind Watve: [00:32:15] composition. Right? Right. And therefore if you are getting more food you should store more food because tomorrow you may not

[00:32:23] Carl Lanore: [00:32:23] get so we'll want to state that the Nuance of what you just said. So in other words as populations become more dense the body interprets this as there will be greater competition for food.

[00:32:34] And it does the signal is for the body to become and I'm not talking about the Thrifty Gene but the body to become more Thrifty and to create more body fat because as a competition elevates, we may run out of food faster, right? So what you're saying basically is in highly populated environments, there is probably a tilting of the propensity to store body fat,

[00:32:58] Dr. Milind Watve: [00:32:58] right.

[00:33:00] [00:33:00] Wow. Right and then incident laser plays a major role in so many things right. So insulin insulin resistance increases the investment in Offspring by by facilitating glucose transport across the placenta, uh-huh and on the other hand insulin resistance. Did uses of elation? Okay. Now this is what ecologists have been calling R and K reproductive strategies and our reproductive strategy is produce more offspring with little investment in each.

[00:33:34] And Katie production is put make fewer Offspring, but with greater investment in each and insulin and another molecule called adiponectin, which is also extremely important in diabetes these two molecules seem to play the role of of changing R and T or refining rnk reproductive strategies. So insulin evolved for so many things it [00:34:00] not only evolved to regulate glucose.

[00:34:03] It was 50 wall to modulate your social behavior, your reproductive strategies your energy from your stasis and and and so many

[00:34:13] Carl Lanore: [00:34:13] things. Wow, you know I've got I'm sorry got

[00:34:16] Dr. Milind Watve: [00:34:16] him. Yes, so so if you want to understand and Insulin, then you need to understand everything.

[00:34:23] Carl Lanore: [00:34:23] Okay. I'll see you then. And that was what I was just going to say I have to believe okay.

[00:34:28] I sincerely believe that the wisdom and insight in your book can have profound implications on health. If and that's the big word clinicians clinicians are already struggling. Just getting people. To eat differently or move more often and what you're talking about here is actually in my humble opinion.

[00:34:54] A complete change in social structures on top of everything

[00:35:00] [00:35:00] Dr. Milind Watve: [00:35:00] else. Am I wrong? No. No, I don't think you need a complete change in social structure. I will compare it with with diet. Okay, we evolve for for a stone age diet for a paralytic diet, right? Yes. It is diet is much different. Yes, but then what dietitians advisors is not to go back to hunter-gatherer?

[00:35:23] Yeah,

[00:35:23] Carl Lanore: [00:35:23] but my one in my butt but dr. Wahby, my audience doesn't listen to them because we do it here to an ancestral diet.

[00:35:29] Dr. Milind Watve: [00:35:29] So that's the good news. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So what I'm saying is let's say if they say that okay, you are deficient in calcium. Now, we don't change the entire diet. We take calcium pills.

[00:35:42] Okay. So similarly we are missing certain hunter-gatherer behaviors now. For which we don't have to go back to hunter-gatherer societies. We need to bring in the missing behaviors in the form of the rightly design games and

[00:35:57] Carl Lanore: [00:35:57] exercises and that's where it comes down to it. So so really [00:36:00] the kind of sports whether it be powerlifting for instance where you are challenging your body with weights that scare you I mean when I think there's a lot of people in my audience will attest that when you're going for a 1 rep maximum in the.

[00:36:16] Or you bench press you feel threatened you feel like wow, something could go really wrong and I could end up dead or I could end up Victorious and those minutes that they that those moments happen every week for many of us. That actually is

[00:36:33] Dr. Milind Watve: [00:36:33] beneficial. Yes, so but essentially not just a one kind of exercise.

[00:36:40] Okay, we had a missing so many things for example, we are also missing rapid nor muscle coordination actions, right the kind of things that you would require while chasing a fast running pray. So we need a combination of exercises. So just [00:37:00] resistance exercise is not enough just walking is not enough just swimming is not enough if we should have a mix of a variety of exercises that make up for all the

[00:37:12] Carl Lanore: [00:37:12] missing

[00:37:14] Dr. Milind Watve: [00:37:14] behaviors.

[00:37:14] Right? Right, and actually we are designing such a set of exercises. Which is due for clinical trials, actually we are we are preparing for this clinical trials, which should if all goes well sometime during 2013 itself this clinical trial should

[00:37:31] Carl Lanore: [00:37:31] begin and you know, you know, what dr. wahby we talked about on this show instead of doing that slow arduous cardiovascular training with somebody walks for an hour at two and a half miles an hour.

[00:37:43] We talk about high intensity training. You are literally sprinting for 30 seconds on a bicycle day. And then you then you walk until you recover then you sprint again and that type of training it sounds to me ecologically [00:38:00] and evolutionarily is more of what we need because that Sprint but brings the body to a heightened level where you feel like well, maybe you're not you don't feel the danger of chasing it an animal but.

[00:38:13] It's somehow brings the body to a very dangerous point where you're giving it everything. You've got your breathing vo2max runs out. Your heart is pounding you're sweating and then you collapse that is actually good for us.

[00:38:25] Dr. Milind Watve: [00:38:25] I had Eddie but then I would also add that there is not enough. Okay, I need exercise where you have to make a very quick decision a fraction of a second decision and act accordingly.

[00:38:40] Okay. So for example, we have we have designed certain balls which have they're not actually balls. They have they have corners and edges. So the bounce is very unpredictable. Playing with a perfect round ball is something but playing with some playing with a ball that has an unpredictable bounds.

[00:38:59] You [00:39:00] need very high level of

[00:39:02] Carl Lanore: [00:39:02] alert agility agility.

[00:39:03] Dr. Milind Watve: [00:39:03] Yes, Angela T.

[00:39:07] Carl Lanore: [00:39:07] Yes. Wow, and you know, what, dr. wahby, we have to take our last commercial break, but guess what the second hour of my show is about we're talking about this subject during the second hour. We have a. Professional wrestler coming on talk about training that enhances coordinated working relationships between the nervous system and muscular systems because even though wrestling may not put you in your life at risk clearly these men choking each other throwing each other bouncing it so on this is the kind of exercise that actually can enhance neuromuscular.

[00:39:48] Reactions and we're going to be talking about during the second hour. What a fantastic discussion. We're going to have during the second hour. This is a fantastic book. I. Implore and Inspire any of [00:40:00] you who really want to take your knowledge of disease States the relationship between Diet exercise and environmental signals to a completely new level to spend the money and get this book doves diplomats and diabetes a darwinian interpretation of type 2 diabetes and Related Disorders by dr.

[00:40:20] Milan huapi. It's at amazon.com. And the e-book is at Springer.com Springer books. This is not an inexpensive book, but it is well worth every single penny. It is a game changer clinician. You doctors who listen to the show. You must buy this book. It will help you. It will help you help your patients because remember diabetes is not a disease.

[00:40:45] It's Condition. It's completely reversible and 99% of the people who suffer from type 2 diabetes. I stay tuned right back with more superhuman radio. Are you

[00:40:56] Dr. Milind Watve: [00:40:56] looking

[00:40:57] Carl Lanore: [00:40:57] strong [00:41:00] superhuman radio? City stage on the money, welcome back. We putting

[00:41:11] Dr. Milind Watve: [00:41:11] it on WOW. What'd it

[00:41:12] Carl Lanore: [00:41:12] say? Later in the show. We'll be joined by TNA superstar Rob Terry as we talked about the type of training that is required to be an amazingly agile athlete at 300 pounds of solid muscle.

[00:41:26] I've met Rob at the both the Arnold recently and then a local event here in Louisville, Kentucky. And the guy is an amazing amazing monster of an athlete and super agile. He can leap he can roll. He can jump he can turn he can throw other human beings through the air and he is hyper muscular and super lien.

[00:41:49] And so we're going to be talking more about that later in the show. Dr. Wat fee. What do you want? What are you what are your hopes that this book is an amazing book. I have to tell you [00:42:00] something. And what what it potentially can do for health in general is is profound. What do you want?

[00:42:09] Clinicians who read this book to take away

[00:42:13] Dr. Milind Watve: [00:42:13] from it. Yes a number of think number one. We are saying that that type 2 diabetes in a number of related disorder are not only about insulin and glucose. There is a large number of molecules involved. Okay. So all these pathways are elaborated in the book and it's all.

[00:42:36] Given by brain and behavior. Okay, so just relying on sugar is not enough. We need to look at well, the diabetes researchers particularly need to look at a number of other parameters, which would be better than the plasma glucose. To to monitor the progress okay, and and and to [00:43:00] predict and to prevent complications of diabetes number two, there is nothing in type 2 diabetes, which is by nature irreversible.

[00:43:10] So in principle diabetes should be completely reversible. Well with the exception of extreme complications, like end-stage nephropathy and so on right but but there's nothing in diabetes in general which is not reversible. So in the long run, we should evolve he's to reverse diabetes. I would even say cure diabetes.

[00:43:33] Okay, so we just intangible possible, but we have to work towards it. So a lot of research is needed. What is opened up is a new way of thinking but this is not the end of it. There is a beginning. Yeah, and a lot of research is needed so that we actually work out ways and show that diabetes can be

[00:43:53] Carl Lanore: [00:43:53] cured.

[00:43:53] You know, I hope this book is written for. Clinicians, correct. I mean that [00:44:00] was the purpose of the book

[00:44:01] Dr. Milind Watve: [00:44:01] right for clinicians. Not really this is this is for a wider audience. Okay, anyone who understands science anyone who understands biology or very basics of. Okay, so it could be a student of biology a student of medicine a person who is at high risk of diabetes or diabetes or diabetic himself our clinicians.

[00:44:29] Okay. So it was a difficult choice because the basic aim was to was to put across a new way of thinking right and. To address it to a narrow audience was perhaps not a good thing to do. Okay. So this is the first book on this line of thinking so I thought of making it the more broad-based I think anyone who understands biology the basics of biology would be able to follow it and that's

[00:45:00] [00:45:00] Carl Lanore: [00:45:00] was going to say this book may seem like it's written for clinicians.

[00:45:05] I read the book and I have to read it again because I read it. I gleaned it for the interview and I am going to read it again. I have to tell you that I think anybody who is either a personal trainer if you're working with clients to help them with disease States. If you are a nurse practitioner, if you are a dietitian, whoever you are if you are working with people to help them.

[00:45:32] Overcome these modern diseases. This book is a game changer and it will make you a more successful practitioner. And if you're an individual who just loves knowledge and information like I do you've got to buy this book. You've got to buy this book. It's fantastic. There is nothing out there like this book.

[00:45:48] There's lots of books out there about diet and exercise as it relates to type 2 diabetes, but there's nothing that looks that those books are like looking at one [00:46:00] star. This book is like backing up and looking at the entire Cosmos and saying here's really what's going on. It's not just that one star.

[00:46:08] It's the entire Cosmos that has to be taken to account when we look at this disease because as I've said before. this disease when I often think about blood sugar elevation, but first of all, we know that glucose signaling is what which speeds cellular senescence that fact alone makes me think, okay.

[00:46:30] Why does evolution require that the more sugar in your blood the faster you get old it would seem that that that high blood sugar level is a signal that the species is somehow nearing its end. So why is that what the body is? Perfect. What is it that we what is the body trying to tell us and it's an amazing concept but this book really starts to scratch the surface of not looking at the disease as some mishap.

[00:46:58] But in [00:47:00] fact exactly what is supposed to happen when all these other things

[00:47:03] Dr. Milind Watve: [00:47:03] go

[00:47:05] Carl Lanore: [00:47:05] wrong. It's brilliant. I love the book dr. Wahby. I love the bow. Thank you a great contribution to science. I predict that this book will be used and what comes from your research? I can't wait to hear. I want you to be back on the show.

[00:47:18] When you start talking about the different modalities of exercise that incorporate aggression and yeah and spontaneous thought to respond agility agility assault and how that affects the physiology of human being great stuff. Thanks so much for being on the show today. Dr.

[00:47:33] Dr. Milind Watve: [00:47:33] Wahby. Thank you. I

[00:47:34] Carl Lanore: [00:47:34] enjoyed take take care.

[00:47:35] Take care. I so stay tuned. We're going to take a quick commercial break and when we come back we're going to talk to a guy who is hyper muscular hyper lean very agile and. Without realizing it practice is a lot of the things that dr. Ward V talks about. And we're going to learn how he does it and what makes him the best stay

[00:47:58] Dr. Milind Watve: [00:47:58] tuned.

[00:48:00] [00:48:00] Carl Lanore: [00:48:00] We'll

[00:48:05] Dr. Milind Watve: [00:48:05] be

[00:48:10] right

[00:48:35] Carl Lanore: [00:48:35] back. This is the Superhuman Channel doing reps with the weight of the