[00:00:00] Carl Lanore: [00:00:00] welcome back to another episode of superhuman radio. This is a pep talk today. We're going to be joined by dr. Elizabeth Weir Earth in just a second. I just have to say that today is October 25th 2019. For those of you listening to this show a hundred years from now and realize we were so far ahead of everybody else.

[00:00:17] I am so sick. From this Cruise as some of you who have been listening to other shows this week. No, so I'm I don't have all of my faculties. I'm going to do the best. I can you're gonna have to cut me some slack today, but that's okay. I have dr. You're here to save my hide and bring and bring the intelligence.

[00:00:39] How you doing?

[00:00:40] Dr. Betsy Yurth, MD: [00:00:40] Good. Thanks

[00:00:41] Carl Lanore: [00:00:41] Carl. Welcome back. It's been a while since we've done a show

[00:00:44] Dr. Betsy Yurth, MD: [00:00:44] that while few months. I think

[00:00:46] Carl Lanore: [00:00:46] yeah. So anyway, I wanted to talk about these two peptides today because they have a special place in my heart. Literally. I started using igf-1 when it [00:01:00] first came out and around 2000 and.

[00:01:03] for we got the first igf-1. Before the lr3 and then the lr3 later on and when I got sick my audience knows the story, you know, and I was told I was going to need a pacemaker and my heart was all messed up. I dealt Musa from months to Germany sent me a copy of a book published by Wiley and it was a it was a book of the complete.

[00:01:31] Discussions and research papers discussed adding Novartis Symposium, and I think it was February of 2006 that talked about heart failure. and molecules. And therapeutic approaches and lo and behold I started reading this because I was looking for answers like to remodel my own heart and I started reading about igf-1 and I was like, wow, this is [00:02:00] really interesting.

[00:02:00] And this is way way before we knew anything that peptides could could do and the two peptides that I became most interested back then was igf-1 and then the long are three version of it and mechano growth factor, which is appropriately called igf-1 e or e c depending. What camp you're from and these are two peptides that have kind of lost any Spotlight because there's so many sexier things today a od9 604.

[00:02:29] I mean, it's like every time you turn around it's like oh who is the new One new flavor and flavor, but the reality is that these two peptides deserve a little time in the light because number one they really work. And that's the good thing about them. But you know what the bad thing about them is they really work and they should not be used willy-nilly and so I wanted to explore this with you and talk about these two amazing peptides igf-1 the long are 3 version and then of course [00:03:00] mechano growth factor.

[00:03:02] So, where would you like to start? So,

[00:03:05] Dr. Betsy Yurth, MD: [00:03:05] you know and I agree with you. I think that these you and I are of the same generation. These have been around for a long time and we've seen them used before all this other really cool stuff came and they do they're kind of amazing in their ability to work and then we came out with things like that that will stimulate growth hormone and all the CJC and umbrella and test Maryland.

[00:03:24] He's sort of got abandoned and probably because they are more difficult to use you have to be more cautious with them. But what I think we're finding in at least our practice is we're pulling these guys back up a little bit more now because something funny we can't quite get what we need out of just using the G HR issues of GH R PS and by adding in something that stimulates the igf going along a different pathway.

[00:03:47] We can now really get an accentuated affect both for people who just really want to build muscle because you can as you know put on a lot of muscle with these and but also we're finding it's got some of disease States as well. [00:04:00] Yo, and the combination of the two is probably sort of the ideal World.

[00:04:05] Although it's a little difficult to figure out some of the

[00:04:07] Carl Lanore: [00:04:07] time. I know it is and my toe. So depending on who you talk to. Most people say, oh you don't use them together because they're competing for the same receptor other people say using them together has a synergistic effect. So it just I don't think there's really a consensus right on that and that's the exciting about it.

[00:04:25] I want to say something up front first of. So that we can say it and we can move past it igf-1 is implicated on making cancers grow faster. It doesn't matter if it's igf-1 that your body is producing or igf-1 that you're injecting. And so the use of these two peptides would be contraindicated. If you have been diagnosed with cancer you have had cancer in your in remission now and and the analogy that I gave off the air was.

[00:04:56] It's not like they'll ever cause cancer course, they don't cancer [00:05:00] leverages everything and anything that's good for healthy cells cancer doubles down and leverages those and igf-1 is very important for healthy self shoes.

[00:05:10] Dr. Betsy Yurth, MD: [00:05:10] Exactly, right. So when I with my cancer patients the sad thing is you really have to shut down every really good pathway every metabolic pathway because everything is good for us is also good for cancer cells.

[00:05:19] So unfortunately you kind of have to put people into this just really dormant stay which is not great for. The rest of life but until you get the cancer cells killed off and idea Falls in that same category just like we want to block off everything that's stimulus mtor, right? You want to just block every stimulating pathway that's not good for muscle building or feeling good and the same things true.

[00:05:40] You know, when you look at the igf in general and the there's the whole dwarf population who have very very low IGS and they don't get cancer and they live forever. But they have frail bones and poor muscle and they have dementia at earlier ages. So everything good about [00:06:00] igf that stimulating you can say, okay, if you're very low igf, maybe you'll live forever but likely you'll still die of your hip fracture and the fact that you're sarcopenia egg and you'll be demented and none of us want to live that way

[00:06:12] Carl Lanore: [00:06:12] and every and the reality is in the reality is that the the proposed longevity effects of low igf may have less to do.

[00:06:22] With gross with growth inhibition and more to do with. What what signal cellular senescence which is glucose signaling? So if you have less igf and you have less of a of a peptide that acts like insulin and you know, igf can clear blood sugar out of the bloodstream very quickly. People can have a horizon igf.

[00:06:51] And especially igf-1 long are three or two from their secreted gags and immediately get like hypoglycemic episode of their borderline insulin resistant already.

[00:07:00] [00:06:59] Dr. Betsy Yurth, MD: [00:06:59] Right? Right. Let me see that one igf right when we see people when they do igf and it's one of the people are doing very high doses by GFR very consistent basis can actually turn themselves into diabetics if they're using that consistently, right?

[00:07:11] Yes. Yeah, so you have to be cautious and and you know and you but using these on. I cycle basis. I think what we're learning in all of this is everything is up and down, right? You want to have your your body into a up and down state and we've talked about that with mtor and we talked about it with things that seem like igf that.

[00:07:29] There's a paper recently published. We did a lot of research trying to figure out what is the ideal igf and that you probably want to keep a high normal, igf. You don't want to go Sky High. You don't want to go too low and just like insulin insulin to low as horrible as low to high is horrible, right?

[00:07:45] So all these peptides we know are a balance. And so I think that's the same thing true of igf and I think the shied away from it because of its risks of cancer and its risks of hypoglycemia. Maybe we put ourselves in a state where we're now not using a nice [00:08:00] medication that we could really use for helping people rebuild.

[00:08:03] Especially people who are coming to us, very sarcopenia krait. Yes agrees or who have been ill that that's a place where I have not found that I can get them there just using the GH R HS GH R PS, so pulling these two drugs together. It's helpful. When you kind of look at how MGF and igf work in normal people.

[00:08:23] So if you do, you know, so if you go and work out hard, so you do resistance training and you break down muscle the makiato growth factors appear pretty rapidly after that to try and repair the muscle and then as mechanical effect was kind of drop down you'll see the igf sort of come up. So, you know in a normal body what's happening is you're bringing.

[00:08:45] MGS basically caused the satellite Cell Activation the stem cells and muscle cells which are called satellite cells get activated. And then and then what appears to happens IGS come in and help differentiate those cells so they are kind [00:09:00] of important to do together. And I know I'm not that not everybody's in that camp.

[00:09:03] But I think if you look at how they function in normal body the probably trying to simulate that is probably going to be our best bet. It is only in high resistance exercise that you see a big surge in mechanic's growth factor, which you called igf-1 you see. And there's a different igf that appears after somebody's running endurance race.

[00:09:23] So there's an igf-1 EA that appears after an endurance right? There are two different.

[00:09:28] Carl Lanore: [00:09:28] Oh,

[00:09:30] Dr. Betsy Yurth, MD: [00:09:30] wow, so we know that it's resistance training muscle breakdown and then the rebuild of the muscle in the can of growth factors important for Arabic Aldo Factor levels drop way down after we hit like 30, you know, so it is harder put on

[00:09:42] Carl Lanore: [00:09:42] muscle, but it but it is an IDF one.

[00:09:49] easy. Yeah, is that a is that a downstream metabolites of just plain old growth

[00:09:56] Dr. Betsy Yurth, MD: [00:09:56] hormone? So, you know that so it's really a it's [00:10:00] igf itself that actually turns into that.

[00:10:02] Carl Lanore: [00:10:02] You know, I'll show it to actually a downstream metabolites of just plain ol igf igf, right? I got you. Yes, you're right. I don't know why I

[00:10:09] Dr. Betsy Yurth, MD: [00:10:09] told you I'm sick in terms of growth factors.

[00:10:13] Right, right. One EB is just in mice or something, you know, and they want EA's after endurance exercise, but I want to yeah, it's very different effects. You don't get the same growth effect spiderants exercise doesn't have the same benefit. I muscle, you know, so in my mind, I think one of the best ways to use this and what I do is post a hard workout you inject and the question is should you inject it into the muscle?

[00:10:36] That you're using that's probably the best way to do it is to Target the muscle that you worked out hard. So if you work out your biceps, that's what muscle you're going to Target you work out

[00:10:44] Carl Lanore: [00:10:44] your or because you train back and you want your biceps to respond to a greater degree than the rest of your muscles.

[00:10:50] Then you reject you must

[00:10:51] Dr. Betsy Yurth, MD: [00:10:51] have to tell you can't get it subcutaneously and get a systemic effect as well. Right? So maybe the benefit from that from that

[00:10:59] Carl Lanore: [00:10:59] realm, but [00:11:00] I don't know but here's an interesting and I was thinking about this when we started talking about this. Here's an interesting argument for why you should do site injections.

[00:11:09] If you want to see greater muscle growth. Hmm. We know that I GF and MGF are also made in the muscle under congestion. So, you know, where the whole Blood Flow Restriction thing. That's exactly right reason. That happens is because. It's just not systemic igf and MGF. It's not that it accumulates to good to Greater degree.

[00:11:32] The muscle tissue itself responds to this congestion and this change in PH with lactate going up by increasing the intramuscular production of MGF and igf, so that's an argument right there while you should probably do site injections with it

[00:11:50] Dr. Betsy Yurth, MD: [00:11:50] post-workout. Although they have shown that if you do a systemic injection, you will get benefits or say if you are doing multiple body parts and you know that you still will get a systemic effect.

[00:11:58] We are like your target the muscle directly. [00:12:00] That's really where it's going to play right? You know that you'll get the satellite cell increase at that site more predominantly, so. You know for me, it's always a little hard. So if I do a back and biceps workout, okay, where am I? I'm injecting my biceps my back.

[00:12:14] So I've got a little bit confused as to where exactly to put on those

[00:12:17] Carl Lanore: [00:12:17] words. Yeah, you just gotta go systemic like that, especially when you're by yourself, you can't say to somebody could you have put half of this in each of my last and I've actually done that it's like if you give you by yourself, you know going like this.

[00:12:28] It's like it just doesn't work. It doesn't

[00:12:31] Dr. Betsy Yurth, MD: [00:12:31] work. Yeah, probably that system of the fact is good. But but then if you says so he's so that Pagan VF is going in there and it's increasing the satellite, you know, the satellite Cell Activation. And it's a wild blast proliferation and then you need the igf to come into play.

[00:12:44] So if you have low igf levels, you know, maybe logic levels are high enough in your growth hormone secreted Gods, maybe not but the if we wanted a big surgeon igf to help that cell differentiation, then we wouldn't want the igf to come into play probably [00:13:00] at least within the next 24 hours and maybe I would say within the next 12 hours.

[00:13:03] So I think that, you know be interesting too. I'm sure a lot of your listeners has used these I'd be ashamed to hear everybody's opinions. I've listened to lots of opinions on these but it just if I sort of use it as a biologic simulation that seems like that would be the best best approach

[00:13:18] Carl Lanore: [00:13:18] the home I'm gonna ask you a question the Holy Grail of of hypertrophy is hyperplasia.

[00:13:26] Hyperplasia is a phenomenon that pretty much stops happening after a certain age and Youmans and. It's myostatin inhibition plays a role in suppressing hypoplasia, but hyperplasia is the gold standard for building muscle because you're actually creating new tissue as opposed to just Plumping up an existing fiberglass.

[00:13:51] Right. And so, you know, there were a lot of guys back in the day that took Trend belong because there was one study that showed that Trend ballon cause hyperplasia and all the other anabolic [00:14:00] steroids, didn't we like, oh we want hyperplasia. We want we want an increase in complete tissue mass.

[00:14:06] Then we can blow it up even bigger and there is some rumors that both MGF and igf when used together can influence hyperplasia, but then there's some people who say no, it doesn't happen. You have any opinions on

[00:14:20] Dr. Betsy Yurth, MD: [00:14:20] that? I think it does if you look at so what do you do with pig and you're like MDF or piglet MGF?

[00:14:26] I think a longer acting is probably better the problem with MGF. Is it so short acting that you know, your effect is going to be pretty limited. So and I think if you're using just regular MDF, maybe it does have to go right to the muscle size because you're going to get 20 minutes maybe. You know make that's probably on the long and maybe it's even gotten bit.

[00:14:43] So by calculating it bite and you know polyethylene glycol to it. We can get a much longer Half-Life. So we get much longer affect both happening. Right as you're adding is we adding these is donating nuclei to the cell. You actually donating new nuclei to the satellite cells [00:15:00] and making. A bigger cell so it is repair and hypertrophy, right and the idea of which actually causes more so differentiation.

[00:15:08] So now you actually get more duplication of those cells so replication of the cells and so I do think if you kind of look at that overall process of the two together that you are getting some actually growth or hypertrophy of the muscle. So I do think I should the two together have it had that

[00:15:24] Carl Lanore: [00:15:24] effect and so so let's let's.

[00:15:29] Explain what these two peptides are? Okay. So igf-1 long R3 is insulin-like growth factor 1 which is very very anabolic and acts like insulin has all these magical things and it's and it's changed somehow molecular lie, so that it stays active for seven days. Does it attach to the albumin like the drug Affinity complex and CJC 1295 or what keeps it active for seven days.

[00:15:56] If I

[00:15:57] Dr. Betsy Yurth, MD: [00:15:57] don't really know the answer to [00:16:00] that, do

[00:16:00] Carl Lanore: [00:16:00] you know I don't that's why I've you know, I know I know CJ C 1295 attaches to albumin and stays right active, but I and I'm just wondering if but the long are three. Normal, igf-1 injectable last about 20 minutes and it's gone. Right but the the long R3 is supposed to have a seven-day

[00:16:22] Dr. Betsy Yurth, MD: [00:16:22] Half-Life, right?

[00:16:22] And so right you just change that amino acid sequence by one amino acid and it's given that longer Half-Life and that's really has to do more. With its its receptor Affinity, right? So it's not it's not binding as much the receptor so that it has lower rate of affinity but the and so it kind of keeps binding.

[00:16:42] So I think that that's you know, that's simply by one amino acid change you've created this huge difference in create a long-acting versus short-acting

[00:16:53] Carl Lanore: [00:16:53] version. And so so we're starting to understand that the pulsatile nature [00:17:00] of peptides. May be as important as their direct actions. So for instance, we know that some of these are long-acting growth hormone releasing hormones, even the oral stuff like MK 677 they cause a phenomenon called GH bleed which makes the pituitary and kind of exhausted after a while like you just can't keep your foot on the gas pedal, but it also seems to.

[00:17:27] make the physiological responses to. These peptides the pulses seem to be less effective at doing what they normally do because this approach to having high levels continuously is is is counter to our normal physiology. So what do you what do you think about the fact that maybe we just need 20 minutes to get the maximum out of it as opposed to these long-acting versions any thoughts on that.

[00:17:56] Well,

[00:17:57] Dr. Betsy Yurth, MD: [00:17:57] I think that even if I bet that's how he flaps his reaction, [00:18:00] right? Basically you would get and these two are very. You have to be careful with them because you will you completely you know, make your receptors so you don't respond at all the igf anymore. And that's a horrible problem.

[00:18:12] You're safer with some of the things like CJC and enroll on you can those five days on two days off and do fine, but igf does seem one that you can't you can't keep stimulating or you will become more. It'll react. Do it anymore. Certainly the fact that our body does is very short bursts reactions in real life, you know is indicative that well, why is it doing this doing that for a reason?

[00:18:35] Right? The problem is that there's a lot of there's a lot of other effects or Downstream effects. When we produce our own peptides that don't quite happen the same way when you're taking exhaustion is sources of them. And so what we found is to duplicate some of those effects you need to have it sticking around a little bit longer.

[00:18:55] Okay. So what is it

[00:18:56] Carl Lanore: [00:18:56] our inability to examine

[00:18:58] Dr. Betsy Yurth, MD: [00:18:58] interesting things they happen [00:19:00] with these and what they found is when you're doing like the MGF when they used to use it that way and it just has been working very good reactions to it. They would. So I'm but it was not dramatic and by used by extending the length of time that it worked reactions people's responses were much better.

[00:19:16] So I think there's so many things we look at in there's a lot. There's a lot of things that are like that we're not sure of all the little Downstream things are happening at the same time where our body produces it and that we seem to be able to get get a better response when we actually changed the like the time we're taking things exhaustion asleep.

[00:19:34] So I think that I think there's so much that we don't

[00:19:37] Carl Lanore: [00:19:37] know

[00:19:37] Dr. Betsy Yurth, MD: [00:19:37] right know is that you don't want and these are two by far and it's why we probably don't use them use them a lot more in a very medically managed setting because we want people to be a little more careful with a little more

[00:19:49] Carl Lanore: [00:19:49] cautious.

[00:19:49] Yeah. These are these are really I said this before and I'm not. Saying this to be theatrical or these are really two very powerful peptides the peptides that cad have had have [00:20:00] harmful consequences if you overdo it. So so would you recommend that if someone was going to use igf-1 long are three that they stick to a once-a-week injection schedule and so that you because the way igf-1 long R3 works and I'm going for memory is more than 50% of the dose is gone within the first two days.

[00:20:22] Right and then that last five days you're just getting a tail. So, theoretically if you did it once a week, you'd almost be creating this albeit over the course of a week this pulse and the tapirs.

[00:20:37] Dr. Betsy Yurth, MD: [00:20:37] I do is more of a twice a week actually and then do I go for week on a four-week a sort of be the same but I would do it more twice a week and that's what I actually think maybe alternative take the MGF of pegylated long-acting MGF.

[00:20:50] Look how it goes after with the igf and then doing doing like a 3-day on the mechanical effector in to a week two days a week. The IGM. I think we were going [00:21:00] to do is see the curve kind of do this and then balance you

[00:21:02] Carl Lanore: [00:21:02] up. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you

[00:21:04] Dr. Betsy Yurth, MD: [00:21:04] kind of like what you doing your testosterone right before drops down you're hitting it again.

[00:21:10] You're losing your bet that today Mark you've lost 50% So you want to kind of come up back up back up and then stable it out. And I think that will you keep a little bit more of a. If that's still the still getting the still getting some pulsing and I think you don't want to do it longer than forward.

[00:21:25] So time. I think you do it for 40 so time and then you take some time off of it. And I think that way you did the tachyphylaxis the up regulation where you no longer respond and you know, so I think that when you use these they should be done but you can no longer training schedule. So on your harder training days, you do the pegylated MGF igf the next day.

[00:21:48] I think one of the places where we are using a little bit more aggressively is in our disease States. Yeah, but we have found some it's a lot of recent literature showing that igf and [00:22:00] MGF are both really important for brain. The state just came out going maybe two months ago. It was in June on mechanical sector.

[00:22:07] We should think it was really just muscles and we now know we see that there's actually receptors in the brain. And with the some findings that the lower levels of mechanic growth factor in Ocean mice had that and if they had any kind of brain injury, they couldn't recover. So we've been in our stroke patients with higher levels of igf and MGF and you can have a pretty aggressively what about people who aren't responding to other things such as cerebral Eisen and some of the other meds and seen some really nice effects from that.

[00:22:36] So I think that that's a place

[00:22:38] Carl Lanore: [00:22:38] that's.

[00:22:39] Dr. Betsy Yurth, MD: [00:22:39] That's interesting. You're one of the interesting things. I do Orthopedics. And so, you know, I'm always interested in Orthopedic realm of these is their benefit in using them with stem cells, right? Because if you think about what you're doing you're activating stem cells with MGF, right your increases Stem Cell Activation and right IDF differentiation.

[00:22:58] So if you tie them into a stem [00:23:00] cell injection, particularly, you have a torn hamstring. And we put platelets or stem cells for torn hamstring or a joint because we now know that that they're helpful for cartilage to and then you follow that with a relatively aggressive course of MDF and igf, I think that we're going to see significant benefits there as well.

[00:23:18] There was a study to recently with ACL. That show that you're using MGF post ACL reconstructions really help that the that that that was really beneficial to so I think that injury recovery and I think that's a really good place to pull these in and use them a little bit more aggressively but for a brief period of time just not a long period of

[00:23:39] Carl Lanore: [00:23:39] time when I when I evolved the three attachments on my left hamstring.

[00:23:45] I talked to Bill about it and I got myself some MGF and igf-1 and eyesight inject. I mean I went right in the muscle with

[00:23:51] Dr. Betsy Yurth, MD: [00:23:51] it. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's what

[00:23:53] Carl Lanore: [00:23:53] and I'm not that he'll really fast for me. I mean, I obviously the avulsions didn't go miraculously [00:24:00] reattach. I was back to deadlifting like in a few

[00:24:03] Dr. Betsy Yurth, MD: [00:24:03] months really and you didn't do anything cells or platelets cells in it at all.

[00:24:07] Just just

[00:24:07] Carl Lanore: [00:24:07] the MGM. Yeah, just that I was back then I wasn't I wish I could have gone for like stem cell or even PRP at that point in time. But yeah, it's really

[00:24:18] Dr. Betsy Yurth, MD: [00:24:18] interesting platelets followed by that an MDF injections and you could you know as a physician I can do that the same time right put some put themselves into that tendon and then follow that with some MDF injections around it, and I think that we'll see really.

[00:24:30] Significant benefit responses. So I think that the use of these we biologics is really going to

[00:24:34] Carl Lanore: [00:24:34] be that's our siding. I want to take a break. I want to pick up on the other side with that will talk about injuries. But I also want to talk more about other disease states that seem to be tied to low levels of these growth factors.

[00:24:44] We're talking with dr. Elizabeth. You're worth Boulder Boulder longevity. I'm sorry. I'm really a massive Boulder longevity.com is the website. And if you're in her area go see her we'll be right back with more superhuman radio stay tuned. Are you still on the fence about [00:25:00] body protection complex bpc oral from dr.

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[00:25:08] Dr. Betsy Yurth, MD: [00:25:08] Ohio. I have been having some bagging tendon issues that were injuries. Just two things that were annoying. You know, I'm 58 years old just older tendon kind of issues or of her litter, you know, we really don't got training when we have just sagging issues.

[00:25:23] Just kind of keep pushing through and I started maybe they will add on that is what I was doing some heavy tricep stuff that that would have killed me before when I had an elbow problem and I was able to do those with literally no pain at

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[00:27:57] world. Welcome back to [00:28:00] super human radio. This is a pep talk with dr. Betsy Earth. We're talking about insulin-like growth factor and meccano growth factor to amazing peptides igf-1 wall are three. And obviously I should have put the MGF pegylated version up there in retrospect because one is long-acting and one isn't I'll probably add that to the image later.

[00:28:21] But these are two forgotten peptides. They would like the precursors. They were the peptides. We will all fool around with back in the day that actually worked they are very powerful peptides. They should not be taken without understanding. That they shouldn't be taking constantly all the time because they really work and they can have some potential negative effects.

[00:28:47] If you abuse them so talk more about the that's really interesting. You know, that that's really where these are going to be the best used with professional athletes who are trying to recover from an

[00:28:58] Dr. Betsy Yurth, MD: [00:28:58] injury. Yeah. I think I [00:29:00] think that's huge. I think that. You know, I think that combining them. I mean, it'd be nice to there's some animal studies showing injecting for instance MGF along with stem cells into the intro to he really has some really significant benefits on cartilage regeneration as well.

[00:29:17] So these did way back. When do some igf injections intra-articular we kind of talked about trying out a little bit, you know, it's there's not really anybody who's doing that right now, but there's been some evidence that intra-articular injection of these might be really beneficial. Along with using stem cells to help really regenerate cartilage and osteoarthritic Joint.

[00:29:35] So if you did that will combination, you know, something else may be

[00:29:38] Carl Lanore: [00:29:38] huge if you if you do an intra-articular is there does it naturally stay in that capsule or do you have to put it in a medium that keeps it in that

[00:29:47] Dr. Betsy Yurth, MD: [00:29:47] capsule? No, it's just a hassle actually observe have a local effect on the on the cells there.

[00:29:53] So it should have a local effect. Now. I think we can get right now. What we do is just systemically but you know, and I think that you can [00:30:00] get nice effects from just doing that as well as idea right now inject anything to a joint that isn't really approved inject into a joint is a little bit you're running a little uh.

[00:30:10] Yeah a little bit more that territory that's a little harder to enter into. So I think right now the best thing we should be doing is we're doing these reach our procedures. I do a lot of rejected procedures. Is that following those Within These igf and MGF sort of putting them on a protocol after that.

[00:30:24] We can really really post-surgery to if you do an ACL reconstruction or you do a meniscus repair on a young person not too young Shoney's isn't too young but at least meccano growth factor is going to be really probably important to

[00:30:36] Carl Lanore: [00:30:36] recovery. Dr. Allen done. You remember her. Yeah, so he was all he was on my show like a decade ago.

[00:30:42] His website is down now. But yeah, he used to do 20 I use of growth hormone intra-articular lie, he do it three three weeks

[00:30:50] Dr. Betsy Yurth, MD: [00:30:50] in

[00:30:52] Carl Lanore: [00:30:52] a row. In fact, his website was I I agh something.com. It [00:31:00] was intra-articular growth hormone injection that kind he was training Physicians. Right back then and he's gone.

[00:31:07] I have a feeling he passed away or something. He retired one of the other but yeah, he was doing growth

[00:31:12] Dr. Betsy Yurth, MD: [00:31:12] hormone good success with it. You know, I think he actually has

[00:31:14] Carl Lanore: [00:31:14] some significant at a lot of athlete and he and he did some studies. He came on my show and he talked about studies that they did where they showed that, you know bone on bone and then they show that blood vessels.

[00:31:25] So the first thing is the vascular endothelial growth factors start to bring blood in and then once that happens the see new chondrocytes start to sprout. And a pretty amazing phenomenon and makes you wonder why you know people aren't asking for things like that before having a complete like artificial knee put

[00:31:46] Dr. Betsy Yurth, MD: [00:31:46] in.

[00:31:46] Yeah. Well, that's what it has. Also mesas me that people are spending sometimes, you know pain. What dr. You do it five ten thousand dollars on average error procedure and then really not doing any of the things that potentially will make that region of procedure more successful. [00:32:00] You know that we'll talk to our patients, you know.

[00:32:03] About doing a regional procedure. And also I think I would really like you to follow up and start this peptide program afterwards and you're like, oh well that's going to cost another whatever amount of money, you know instead. They're willing to waste the $5,000. It should be tied in together.

[00:32:15] But you're talking about when when you're talking about the blood vessels, right? So there's igf on blood vessels to write quite important for cardiovascular disease that we know that you know, the IDF is is. Well IDF is is part of the pathogenesis of atherosclerosis in you know, cardiovascular

[00:32:35] Carl Lanore: [00:32:35] disease by hi GF is opposed by Jeff is both a powerful anti-inflammatory and antioxidant igf-1.

[00:32:44] In fact Adele Musa once. Said to me one of the ways that igf-1 may stimulate cancer growth is the complete suppression of react surgeon oxygen species and our OS will destroy a cancer cell if given the opportunity [00:33:00] to oxidative stress, and I thought that was really interesting. I was like really he says yeah igf is very very anti-inflammatory and anti-cancer and antioxidant so, you know, We think that you know, when you look at the Polly atrophic effects of some of these growth factors, right?

[00:33:15] Like we think oh they they do this. It's like, oh no they do all these other things

[00:33:20] Dr. Betsy Yurth, MD: [00:33:20] too. Right and that's why you know, the sum of the law. I GF crowd that you know who say, okay. Well you want to live forever and have no idea. Well, it doesn't make sense to you. We know now that largest associated with with dementia As We Know It's associated with stroke.

[00:33:34] We know station with atrial fibrillation. We know associate with a thorough Squad heart disease and there are some patients and we actually follow igf levels and it is you know, Jeff is hard to measure right it's going to bounce around but you can get still sort of, you know, if you measure the same time and people through the day we can still get a sense of Are We raising igf and with patients who you put them on all the GH R HS or test more along with if Merlin and there's their idf's don't budge much and then you put them on little [00:34:00] I GF along with that just a couple times a week and you'll see a nice shoot up and igf so now I'm getting to a point where I feel like, okay.

[00:34:06] Here's a patient who has you know already has a cardiovascular disease history and certainly their risk is high and there and no one wants to use igf anymore because of its it's just sort of been abandoned and this is a group of patients where we should be thinking about these things.

[00:34:24] Carl Lanore: [00:34:24] Right? Well what so one of the reasons that I started using igf was because I was worried that for being obese for so long and having uncontrolled high blood pressure for so long.

[00:34:35] You know because I had this arrhythmia. And they were saying that my heart had it was enlarged and I know you know, I started reading like this book that I heart failure. It's like I was like, oh, you know, so I probably have some fabric fibrotic tissue in my heart because what happens is in an effort for the heart to try to deal with the hemodynamics the [00:35:00] tissue changes and you have cross striations, so.

[00:35:04] It's actually trying to become more resistant to blowing out. But what happens is it becomes more resistant resistant to pumping to it loses its flexibility and igf-1 reverses that fibrotic nature of Heart of of the names in the heart. I was like, oh man, so like I'm losing weight. My blood pressure is down.

[00:35:24] I need to increase igf-1 to my heart will fix itself. That was like my

[00:35:31] Dr. Betsy Yurth, MD: [00:35:31] strategy. And

[00:35:31] Carl Lanore: [00:35:31] words I'm here. Here and I moved a lot of weight back in those days and I didn't I didn't stroke and I didn't have a heart attack. So I guess it was working. But yeah, you

[00:35:42] Dr. Betsy Yurth, MD: [00:35:42] know what? I wish that's what we're using a lot I think.

[00:35:46] You know, we will use that little probably less than our body butter weight, which is always certainly have people who want it and a lot and our disease State people because I think it's going to be these people are sick. They're going to have low IDF levels all of these things you live there the vascular endothelial cells need igf, [00:36:00] the brain needs igf.

[00:36:02] And so we if we don't more aggressively treat these people were probably not impacting them nearly as much as we could everything. We poured everything between us to with hormones were treating with peptides and and and they're still not doing great. And that's where we're finding them. We need to go to some of these stronger peptides and utilize them and I think there's a place if you are if you just aren't getting quite the gains that you want that you know that you can you can do this and where I would just encourage your balls.

[00:36:30] Be careful and don't overuse them they and but by using them in the same manner that we you may be able to reach a bow that you couldn't reach before and I personally haven't used igf myself. You have I but I've used MGF and I like the effects a

[00:36:46] Carl Lanore: [00:36:46] lot. Well, you know, it's you raised a really interesting point some of the early research on summer Ellen.

[00:36:53] Showed that the older The Avengers individual was the much worse. The response was to the dose. They just didn't produce as [00:37:00] much growth hormone and you know, and I know that we've gone from the idea of using Frank growth hormone injections. Ignoring everything else the pituitary makes just to massaging the pituitary to do its job better and it becomes a point I predict and I'm probably going to find this in myself as I age of diminishing returns.

[00:37:22] We're trying to get the pituitary to act like its young doesn't work anymore and we are going to have to swallow the pill and go. Okay, I guess now we have to go to Frank. Injections of igf-1 of MGF of growth hormone because your tutor is not working

[00:37:40] Dr. Betsy Yurth, MD: [00:37:40] anymore. Yeah, I think you're right. And if you sort of say it's something like testosterone like you can take a young guy put them on HCG and get us to start our own levels to go but you're not going to do that with an older guy right demolishes you want.

[00:37:50] You're not going to see a big bump in testosterone suspect. You're right. There's a point where we can we can't just make this this pituitary start waking up again acting like [00:38:00] its young, you know, and that probably is a different age for different people and different health. Factor is right, but maybe that may be exactly right.

[00:38:08] There are those people who come back to you when you put them on these ghr edges and hrp is not like man, you know, I don't really feel any better and it may be the sticker of more elderly people that they're not responding

[00:38:19] Carl Lanore: [00:38:19] to no. No, you just put them on growth hormone put them on some igf-1 and MGF and maybe some other peptides that.

[00:38:25] They're no longer. We can't stimulate their own endogenous production any longer and so now we have to replace it completely replace them. I mean, that's the only logical to

[00:38:34] Dr. Betsy Yurth, MD: [00:38:34] me. I think you're right. I think we all like we all like to be we like the peptides because they're so safe and you know, and so that's in whatever we can really just be super safe and we can get these things to nice physiological levels, but I suspect there's a point where you can't get physiological levels of what you're doing and we do have to sometimes maybe Branch out a little bit and what we're doing and I think that and I do that we're going to find the igf and and MGF pulled into and I you know any of your Physicians out there who [00:39:00] are listening or people who are working with with clients.

[00:39:03] To think about these in States like that where you really do have to have to help these people. There's these really sick people you're going to have to sort of Branch out a little bit maybe and maybe use some of these things that that are a little bit higher risk, you know it myself it's you know for me that you'll just uh, RPS and HR issues were great.

[00:39:22] I know they're low-risk I can do them easily and igf you I just get a little bit more on that side. Okay. Well, you know, I'm I don't think I need it. But I also haven't tried it. Maybe I would

[00:39:34] Carl Lanore: [00:39:34] love it. It's you know what every time I use the igf-1. I noticed changes in my body. Yeah, no doubt in my mind about it and I just got some I just I just started using it again

[00:39:45] Dr. Betsy Yurth, MD: [00:39:45] recently and we hear that a lot.

[00:39:47] Yeah,

[00:39:48] Carl Lanore: [00:39:48] I want to take a last commercial break when we come back. Let's just touch on dosing. Okay? Okay. I stay tuned. Sorry. I was busy hacking. I'm actually get warm. I think I'm [00:40:00] starting wonderful. It would have been cheat instead of going going on a cruise. I could have just gone to a local hospital lick the floor and this I would have been the same results a couple things.

[00:40:11] I want to say if you're listening to Today's Show and you're thinking okay. So how does my doctor get this information? The international peptide Society is where your doctor can go to be trained on how to administer these peptides and then if your doctor wants some prescribed. For you the place to go is in Nicholasville, Kentucky and that's tailor-made compounding pharmacy.

[00:40:34] If you are a research facility the place to go is peptide sciences.com. And the code is shr for 10% off of any of your research peptides, but those are not for human use so keep that in mind. What is dosing like I mean so so back in the day there was like this taboo like you were Reckless if you went 250 to 200 micrograms of igf-1 [00:41:00] a day.

[00:41:00] And so everybody was like no just a hundred micrograms. That's all you use. And I obviously use 300 micrograms a day for a while because I am that jerk, but what is sensible dosing for igf-1 long

[00:41:13] Dr. Betsy Yurth, MD: [00:41:13] Arthur? Well, I I do think it's pretty variable and lot of times I will only do, you know, like 50 micrograms on people and but you can probably safely though sit up to I think.

[00:41:26] Until I made site they it comes in like 640 microgram per mil vials and they recommend a point for so they'll be about two and twenty micrograms. I think even from 550 to 250 is probably reasonable depending on your goals the size of the patient the thickness of the patient. So what you're trying to accomplish with them and then again not use on an everyday basis.

[00:41:49] So, you know, but I would say we usually are using about a hundred my people and sometimes on an everyday basis in our patients acutely. [00:42:00] So post a procedure or trying to recover from a stroke will use it at that on an everyday basis five days on two days off and we'll definitely got a four-week course so but there are protocols where you're going every other day again, that's the sort of depends on what your treaty and what you're trying to accomplish.

[00:42:17] And then you know MGF also, I think that the the recommended dose is anywhere from a hundred to two hundred micrograms again, use this sort of a five out of seven day approach if you use it continuously. So again for four to six week course, isn't it continuously five out of seven days and then using that that hundreds of 200 microgram what you if you like we're doing by all biceps for instance.

[00:42:39] You might do 50 and. Simple Advocate really pepper in it around the entire muscles you're sticking a bunch of little times and I suppose I could just stick 50 into into the muscle pain makes sense. If you're trying to hit different muscle fibers, if you really how it really works. It might be interesting to just.

[00:42:57] Peppered all the way around if you can stand sticking yourself a bunch of [00:43:00] times, we will notice some little

[00:43:01] Carl Lanore: [00:43:01] tiny bit. Like when they do Botox, you know, they just can't go in and out in and out and I was like man, there's salt in the pic this

[00:43:07] Dr. Betsy Yurth, MD: [00:43:07] sewing. Yeah, it's a tight, you know, it's a big meal.

[00:43:09] So it's really not that bad to do it. So, you know, it's a very few doing both sides you guys put doses if you're doing a hundred you do 50 in each side and again protocol is either maybe maybe do six for six weeks of. Of igf and then for six weeks of MDF or maybe alternating on every other day basis.

[00:43:26] I know some of the bodybuilding protocols and body, you know, which are interesting oftentimes people. They've been the great experimenters, right? You know, like we

[00:43:34] Carl Lanore: [00:43:34] just what I was using these things I just use them everyday. Yeah like until I ran until I ran out until I ran out and I was like, oh I got to order more and then then I'd have like a subjective two or three week break, you

[00:43:46] Dr. Betsy Yurth, MD: [00:43:46] know.

[00:43:47] Yeah, and I do know that there's there are bodybuilders who are doing that with success, right? They'll use lose a little bit of MDF before their work out though you some MPS after their workout and then later and their day they'll use igf. So, I don't know that [00:44:00] we know the right answer to exactly how we should be dosing these as a physician.

[00:44:04] We always have Corsair is a little bit more side of caution, right? But but I you know, I think it's great that they're you know, there are people out there a little bit willing to experiment on themselves. You've done that you've been you know, you've done that with just about everything that self-experimentation in safe to do it myself not so safe to do all my

[00:44:21] Carl Lanore: [00:44:21] patients.

[00:44:21] Right? Right. Yeah, but I again I think that these are two peptides worthy of people's attention because if it if you train. You're a crossfitter your aging, you know, and you want to recover faster. These are magic. These are really powerful peptides. They should be treated that way. They should be treated with caution.

[00:44:41] You should be a little if you should feel a little afraid to use them. You should be like man. I really want to use these right you should feel that way about these. This isn't your PC 157. Well, I'm going to put a milligram maybe today. It doesn't

[00:44:52] Dr. Betsy Yurth, MD: [00:44:52] matter right that is Alpha 1 V PC. Medicare do whatever you want with them, right but these are two and again it's where I sort of like, you [00:45:00] know, you talked about your natural peptide society and and they offer a certification for Physicians.

[00:45:04] I you know, we tell our patients where you know, we have the medically managed program. We are following you were following Labs were making sure you're doing things safely and I think that that that everything I've learned I've been doing, you know IPS from the start and I'm a faculty there and and I think everything I've learned is that this isn't quite as simple as my first I'll just go put people on this and there's two problems with that number one.

[00:45:24] People don't always respond the way you thought it's been a little bit of experimentation with how you do things, you know, and that's a lot of refinement of use this then use this and then use this to all those pieces finding someone who knows the stuff and works with you can be super helpful.

[00:45:38] So, you know, if you call your National capacity, they can give you Physicians who have done the training who spent time learning. It's a lot of training as a lot alert. I really encourage people to find doctors who've been trained, you know, dr. Seeds is. Is been on the Forefront of all this and it's and he's an amazingly brilliant man.

[00:45:56] And for those who have who we've been doing this now for over two years [00:46:00] and and a lot of us just experience, you know and learning from other people's experience so find someone who has the training to work with you because you'll get better results and safer results, you

[00:46:11] Carl Lanore: [00:46:11] know, and of course. be realistic this isn't.

[00:46:18] Something you're going to take in and two weeks ago. Oh my God. I can't believe how big I'm getting and that's right. And that's actually a good thing. You know anything that does that is dangerous methyl 1 tested that back in the day and it was dangerous. But you know, I mean if you if you use these two peptides properly use them consistently at sensible Doses and you're working with somebody who's actually guiding you through this, And you give it some time you will see changes in your body.

[00:46:43] That would not have happened had it not been for the introduction of these two parents.

[00:46:48] Dr. Betsy Yurth, MD: [00:46:48] Right? Could you guys who are doing stem cell procedures were doing Ruggiero procedures or of any surgery find a physician who is going to make me work with you even for that position doing the surgery or the procedure who's willing to follow you afterwards and knows how [00:47:00] to dose these things because you'll have much better results.

[00:47:03] Yeah. We're happy at for Longevity Institute. We're happy for you guys to call us and ask us questions, you know. Brian Graham looks with me very closely. He certified and peptides. He's always answered happy to answer some questions with you guys. So you give us a call look at our website and we'll help you along with that realm to but but but don't ya don't ignore the fact that you can use these things really help you especially you're not recovering from an injury or surgery.

[00:47:27] These are really great options. I think

[00:47:29] Carl Lanore: [00:47:29] then think about all the elderly people who have non-healing wound

[00:47:34] Dr. Betsy Yurth, MD: [00:47:34] issues. Yeah. Yeah,

[00:47:36] Carl Lanore: [00:47:36] right. I mean you won't even have to inject it just squirt it on the open. I bet it would

[00:47:40] Dr. Betsy Yurth, MD: [00:47:40] work better here. That's what's bad to me is you know is watching these people who become sarcopenia can't do anything and you think oh my gosh, there's so much you could do and we're

[00:47:49] Carl Lanore: [00:47:49] not Boulder longevity.com go there ask questions ask for help.

[00:47:53] If you're in the area drive and see dr. Yurt and her team it'll be worthwhile. Listen. Thanks so much for being on the [00:48:00] show today to talk about this feel better. Yeah. I'm going to go home and go to sleep. I'm a boring person right now and we'll see everybody a Monday. Monday we're launching open season on men Monday John.

[00:48:13] Romano will be joining me for our first installment of Open Season on men and it's going to be a story of Fathers and Sons it's going to be very cathartic and very good for you guys out there. It's time that we guys start working together to improve how Society sees us. Because we have a public relations problem today that we have to fix.

[00:48:38] So don't miss Monday show. Have a good weekend doctor. You're right and we see your body [00:49:00]