[00:00:00] Carl Lanore: [00:00:00] hey, welcome back to another episode of super human radio. Today is December 4th, 2019. For those of you listening to the show a hundred years from now, uh, you'll realize that we were way ahead of the curve. Excuse me. I'm turning up my mic a little bit and, uh, you know. I have been paying attention to hydrogen infused water for some time.

[00:00:27] Now. You know, it pops up on your radar and you give it some thought, but you're, maybe you're not convinced. Most of us are convinced right away anyway, but the reality is that, um. Like many of the things that I've talked about over the past 14 years, I mean, I was the first person to talk about  aggressive as a testosterone booster because of an obscure study I read, um, from a doctor, uh, in Lauren Nigeria, a later bull by Nadar lenses.

[00:00:59] These are [00:01:00] two still ingredients in supplements today. We were the first people to talk about rapid myosin for anti-aging almost nine years ago. Nine years ago, and once again, I find myself in that peculiar place where I'm about to pimp something, but it's solely because of the science and then my own personal experience with it.

[00:01:26] Uh, my guest today, and just give me a second here, is Alex Tornabene. How are you doing, Alex? You're doing pretty good. How are you? Wonderful. Wonderful. And you're up in Canada right?

[00:01:38] Alex Tarnava: [00:01:38] Yeah. Vancouver. Cool.

[00:01:39] Carl Lanore: [00:01:39] Cool. Technology's wonderful. Anyway, um, so I want to, I want to start why you became interested in hydrogen.

[00:01:55] Alex Tarnava: [00:01:55] All right. I'm a bit of a long story. [00:02:00] I'll, I'll condense it, uh, as much as I can. But hydrogen was a. Already on my radar for a lot of years. Um, I thought it was bogus. I had, you know, debunked it, um, along with the claims of a lot of, um, kind of like the alkaline water ionizer

[00:02:18] Carl Lanore: [00:02:18] people and I still don't buy the whole alkalinity thing.

[00:02:21] I just had this discussion. Your body, your body, your body controls. It's the pH of your blood so tightly that there is literally nothing. Uh, that you could do to truly sway that in any given direction.

[00:02:36] Alex Tarnava: [00:02:36] Yeah, go ha. So it popped up, um, when I was debunking those guys and, uh, uh, I found some of the early research on hydrogen and, uh, saw the seminal article in nature med that showed that I could, that hydrogen gas could selectively reduce the hydroxyl radical.

[00:02:55] You know, without interfering with other beneficial forms of oxidative stress, [00:03:00] which really peaked my interest. But, you know, I was in my twenties and I didn't really care about access on chronic oxidative stress at that point. It was just kind of a, yeah,

[00:03:09] Carl Lanore: [00:03:09] you're young.

[00:03:11] Alex Tarnava: [00:03:11] Um, but a few years later, um.

[00:03:16] I, I was, uh, you know, running a business that really didn't take up a lot of my time. I travel about a week, a month and work, you know, 16, 18 hour days, seven, 10 days in a row. And then I'd get home and my life was basically just exercise and reading. You know, just my own personal knowledge and my personal fitness.

[00:03:40] I was exercising six to eight hours a day, um, between various martial arts and CrossFit and hiking and running and everything. So I was definitely overdoing it. I was in a chronic disease state. Um, a few things happened that may have weakened me too. Uh, what, what [00:04:00] ended up being the final blow to my health, so to speak.

[00:04:03] Um, first I, I came down with a gastroenteritis. I was just destroyed. My doctor thought it was, I was eating too many raw vegetables, especially, you know, like cabbages and broccoli and everything. I had this big pot of vegetables that was like just grabbing handfuls and eating throughout the day as I was.

[00:04:21] Reading cause all my time was spent, uh, either sizing or reading. So I ate my vegetables as I was reading, like they were chips or popcorn. And then I was eating, you know, meats and eggs you don't before and after my workout. So, uh, I, I had to change up my diet and then, uh. I'm not sure exactly what happened.

[00:04:46] Maybe it was food poisoning or maybe I had the flu or something, but I got really a week and feverish, uh, after day two, and like a three day CrossFit competition. And I went and. Competed anyways, [00:05:00] and I was super weak. But then afterwards I was, you know, throwing up. I was shaking, couldn't control body temperature.

[00:05:07] Um, I thought it was rhabdo, but again, looking back, I think I probably just had food poisoning and was stupid, you know, or the Fluor was stupid. Yeah. But regardless, I couldn't walk for a couple of days, you know, I had just demolished my body. Well, just a few weeks after that. I got really sick and, uh, it hit me harder than my roommate.

[00:05:30] Um, and maybe it hit me harder, uh, and gave me some of the longterm consequences because in a period of a month, I've just had two events that, you know, crippled my health a little bit.

[00:05:41] Carl Lanore: [00:05:41] But, uh, and maybe your diet was eroding your health, but that, that, that was the straw that broke the camel's back.

[00:05:48] Alex Tarnava: [00:05:48] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, um. It's whatever this virus was. It was nasty. I had sudden onset narcolepsy. Um, if I sat still for a minute [00:06:00] or two, I fell asleep wherever I was. I was sleeping maybe 16 hours a day. Um, I had central nervous system shut down. My heavy lifts were unchanged. Actually, I could squat the same.

[00:06:11] I could deadlift the same. I could bench the same, but I went from being able to do 15, 20 bar muscle ups on broken to, I couldn't do a chest to bar. I went from a 54 inch box jump to, I couldn't jump an inch onto a plate, you know, so I had no explosive movement whatsoever. Uh, my blood work was a disaster.

[00:06:34] I was, you know, anemic. I was iron deficient despite being on a very high protein diet. Uh, my C reactive proteins were, um, I forget the unit. I think it's milligrams per deciliter, but there were at 34. You're, you're sick if it's over one and when you're sick, it shouldn't be between more than like one to three.

[00:06:53] Right. So I was 11 times the high normal of one. You're fighting an infection or second. Right. [00:07:00] I was just. Not to in the last like six weeks. Um, my best friend and roommate at the time, he had been training for a triathlon and he actually got pretty sick too, but it hit him in a different way.

[00:07:13] Um, he ended up killing, uh, you know, pneumonia actually, and he had to go to the hospital a few times and missed, you know, a lot of work across like a few weeks, but he didn't seem to have any longterm. Consequences come up. Whereas I did when

[00:07:27] Carl Lanore: [00:07:27] the  Alex, let me ask you a question before you go onto the longterm consequences.

[00:07:32] You, you, you were having signs of gut problems before all of this, right? Yeah.

[00:07:37] Alex Tarnava: [00:07:37] Wow. I had the gastroenteritis,

[00:07:39] Carl Lanore: [00:07:39] so that's very painful, right? That's, that's really, yeah,

[00:07:42] Alex Tarnava: [00:07:42] and there I wasn't, I wasn't absorbing food at home,

[00:07:45] Carl Lanore: [00:07:45] but, no, but I think that it's, it's, I, I want to connect the.here. I, I keep telling people certain things over and over again on the show.

[00:07:53] Cause I want them to stick with this in their mind when they start to assess their own conditions. But [00:08:00] if, if you have gut problems, you have a whole body problem because your gut is your immune system. So when you think of your gut, you think of that. That's your immune system. When you think of your immune system, realize that's your gut.

[00:08:12] And when, if you have gut problems that. You will, you're going to, if you just ignore it, you're going to have all sorts of really bad problems up the road. .

[00:08:23] Alex Tarnava: [00:08:23] Honestly, my gut problems got worse in the next stage of my journey. After this, I developed numerous officers cause you know when  and Mike got was rock solid before this happened, you know, I used to laugh that other people would get food poisoning from things and I'd be fine having eaten the same thing.

[00:08:44] Actually, at one point, um, I ate food that gave several people food poisoning. Um,

[00:08:51] Carl Lanore: [00:08:51] and it didn't bother you. I used to be the same way. So

[00:08:54] Alex Tarnava: [00:08:54] it was on the counter for three days after other people got food poisoning and it didn't even upset my stomach. [00:09:00] Uh, but after this, now I have a really,

[00:09:03] Carl Lanore: [00:09:03] so my question, my question is just, I'm just, this is just an tangential, did your gut problems start when you started eating all these vegetables?

[00:09:12] Yeah.

[00:09:13] Alex Tarnava: [00:09:13] Yeah.

[00:09:14] Carl Lanore: [00:09:14] You don't, you know what? You know what's really funny? I know so many people who go full on vegan. And, and like within the second or third week, they tell me, man, all I do is burp, fart and poop. It's like, this is like I, all I'm doing is I'm farting. I'm burping, I'm burping him.

[00:09:32] And, and, and like, that alone should tell you that's not a good diet for you. But people feel like, no, but I'm eating healthy. I got a, this is what healthy people go through. No, it's not healthy. People aren't burping and farting all day long. They're not, yeah.

[00:09:48] Alex Tarnava: [00:09:48] Yeah, no, I mean, anecdotally I find, uh, the best diet for me tends to be fairly high protein with moderate carbs and fats.

[00:09:57] And actually, um, in the, the, um, [00:10:00] genetic testing, I did a self de-code. Um, Joe Cohen, if you know, I'm a, you know, he's got a good website for self, but it suggested that I respond very poorly to either a high fat or a high carbohydrate diet, which. I know that I do every time I've tried to super high fat, I've gotten the keto flu and I've just felt run down and felt like, you know, a bag, a crap, you know, so to speak.

[00:10:26] Um, but, uh, kinda when the dust settled, um, uh, my inflammatory markers, the C C reactive proteins went back below normal and they just kind of vanished in a period of like three days, cause I was doing blood tests a couple times a week. It went from like 34 to 101. Right. You know, so it was just.

[00:10:46] Dust settled. Well, I woke up with the frozen shoulder and arthritis and eight spots, you know, kinda where all of these old injuries that I'd had from various sports, you know, over a lifetime of contact and combat sports. [00:11:00] I was just riddled with arthritis. Um, you know, I couldn't put on a jacket.

[00:11:05] Um, I went from loving jujitsu to, you know, and being able to touch my ankle to my, you know, phase, which is advantageous, you know. For grappling right to go on a butterfly position on the floor. You know, I couldn't cross my womb or anything. Um, so I ended up going on a thousand milligrams of Neproxin today by prescription from the doctor.

[00:11:30] Right. I ended up getting a couple of cortisone injections and a hyaluronic acid injection.

[00:11:35] Carl Lanore: [00:11:35] The hyaluronic acid injection is actually good. Cortisone is horrible.

[00:11:39] Alex Tarnava: [00:11:39] So interestingly, the HEA didn't do anything for me. Anyways, the cortisone was like magic, but only for like three weeks.

[00:11:49] Carl Lanore: [00:11:49] Well, okay, so, so ha, uh, isn't going to do any harm.

[00:11:54] She said, in other words, if it doesn't solve your problem, okay, she, your problem wasn't viscosity. [00:12:00] Uh, but it's not like, Oh, great. Now, um, cortisone actually increases atrophy of the muscles that you're there, that it's coming in contact with. It actually causes. Cannibalism. It causes it.

[00:12:16] And so what happens when you have an injury that is not resolving itself and they give you a cortisone shot? You don't have pain. That's true. But not only do you not have healing. But you actually have a continued increase in the injured state. It gets worse and worse. We, we've, we see tendinitis go to tendinosis on people who get multiple injections of cortisone and tendinosis.

[00:12:44] Horrible. If the tendon is going to snap now. And so, um, you know. I hate cortisol, cortisone or whatever. People tell me they got cortisone shots. I want to, I want them to do a face Palm. It's like you just went in and said, I can't take the pain, but [00:13:00] make the injury worse as quickly as you can.

[00:13:02] Okay. We'll give you a shot of,

[00:13:04] Alex Tarnava: [00:13:04] I was trying to train.

[00:13:06] Carl Lanore: [00:13:06] I mean, if I know I get it, I get it. I know why

[00:13:09] Alex Tarnava: [00:13:09] people do it. Arthritis, you know, it was, it was stupid. I mean, and that's kind of the thing, you know it,

[00:13:15] Carl Lanore: [00:13:15] but you know why you aren't stupid. Shame on doctors who offer this to patients that are clearly suffering from overuse injuries from a chosen sport, knowing they're not going to stop that chosen sport.

[00:13:26] You know? And they should chase should counsel and say, look, I can give you a cortisone shot and it's going to actually make the pain go away. But in fact, your injury is going to get worse. And at some point in time, I can't keep giving you a cortisone shots. Like if a patient heard that, they'd probably go, well, what other options are there?

[00:13:43] I don't know. How about localized, uh, uh, N sets? You know what I mean? Let, let's try to manage it a different way instead of giving you the shot that's literally going to make your injury get

[00:13:54] Alex Tarnava: [00:13:54] worse. Yeah. And you know that that's kind of what ended up happening [00:14:00] is between the cortisone and the end CEDS I continued training and then I partially tore my rotator cuff.

[00:14:05] You know, from the arthritis actually, you know, fast forward six months after the partial tear, I was rear-ended in a car accident, which fully for my labor. So my shoulder, it was just a write off and I'd take everything. But, um, you know, in the short term, what ended up happening is I developed multiple ulcers from thousand milligrams of Neproxin.

[00:14:25] Um, actually I started fainting while, while doing, you know, high intensity interval training a few times in a week. And, um. The doctor saw it again cause of the ulcers. I wasn't absorbing, you know, my calories and nutrients properly.

[00:14:42] Carl Lanore: [00:14:42] Not to mention that you will probably be coming in Nemic from the excessive blood loss, not to mention the things that were permeating and getting through your, your gut into your bloodstream directly and causing further, uh, exacerbation of obviously an autoimmune [00:15:00] disorder that you had developed.

[00:15:02] Alex Tarnava: [00:15:02] Yeah. I'm sorry. It's kinda, I got desperate.

[00:15:06] Carl Lanore: [00:15:06] You're lucky. You're lucky you didn't kill yourself to be honest. Cause cause you, you continue to push yourself as you continue to go deeper and deeper in a health deficit and you continue to push yourself.

[00:15:16] Alex Tarnava: [00:15:16] Yeah. Um, . You know? And by the way, by that time, like when I started the ensades, I actually bought a machine to make hydrogen water because I knew that, you know, and say weren't a forever option.

[00:15:29] I knew the cortisone injections weren't a forever option. I was looking for ways to regulate my inflammatory response. And exactly, like you said, with cortisone. And same with the ends AIDS. You don't want to. Blunt, all inflammation. Inflammation is a good thing. It, it's our defense mechanism against damage, infections.

[00:15:46] You know, injuries. So when you're getting inflamed like this for injuries, like my shoulder, that's your body saying, Hey man, this is,

[00:15:55] Carl Lanore: [00:15:55] yeah. If you're, if, if, if probation was [00:16:00] Italian, it would slap you on the side of the head and go, Oh, what the hell are you doing? Why are you doing this to yourself?

[00:16:06] Alex Tarnava: [00:16:06] So I've been there. I'd been looking at ya, you know, ways to mitigate chronic inflammation because I knew, like, you know, my damages were going to be admitting so much inflammation all the time. It was going to become chronic and hydrogen kept on popping up. Uh, how

[00:16:21] Carl Lanore: [00:16:21] about, did you pay for the first hydrogen water machine that you bought?

[00:16:24] Alex Tarnava: [00:16:24] Where do you $500.

[00:16:25] Carl Lanore: [00:16:25] And is that the one that didn't last long or is that the one that actually lasts longer?

[00:16:30] Alex Tarnava: [00:16:30] Um, well it, I don't know if it ever worked, but it relies on source water on PDs, like total dissolved solids. When I finally tested it because my shoulder froze my stuff, the ensades and cortisone injections, I found there was 0.03 parts per million of hydrogen, you know, which, you know, the tablets I ended up, you know, developing get 10 parts per million.

[00:16:52] Right? So, you know, over 300 times the concentration and the minimum therapeutic. Joe sits, been observed in human [00:17:00] human literature, starts at about 0.5 parts per million, and there's a dose dependent response. So even then, it was one 15th concentration of the minimum observed therapeutic dose, and I paid $4,500 for this machine.

[00:17:13] Carl Lanore: [00:17:13] And so what made you even think that you could encapsulate if, if, for lack of better terms, Oh, embed a hydrogen into tablets. I mean, obviously, yeah, I see. We, you

[00:17:24] Alex Tarnava: [00:17:24] know, to clarify the, the hydro, the tablets don't have any hydrogen. They split it off the water. Right. Okay. It's cleaved,

[00:17:32] Carl Lanore: [00:17:32] yeah.

[00:17:32] Through hydrolysis yet obviously, but my point is what made you think tablets? Like most people go, well, I've got to find the cheaper machine, a better machine. I got to improve on the machine. Why? How do you go from buying machine machines out there to saying, I can probably put this in a tablet.

[00:17:47] Alex Tarnava: [00:17:47] I started buying a lot of the studies. You know, to read the full methods and a lot of the researchers were using, you know, magnesium rods and make these things sticks. I found that Japan, um, and I, I actually got a [00:18:00] magnesium stack. It didn't work very well, you know, it was well below 0.5, you know, parts per million.

[00:18:06] Um, so it was a, magnesium was on my radar. It was commonly being used in the research community. Um. And I started, you know, ordering, trying to get magnesium, and I was just going to do it as a powder, which I've found now is, you know, super illegal and super dangerous because in powder form it's hazmat and you're violating like eight U S governmental departments.

[00:18:29] And there's actually some powder, like companies that are selling powders in the market right now. Right. It's dangerous. I mean, they're putting an explosive in plastic containers and shipping them by air. You know, like someone, it could blow up, someone could die, and it's really a shame that I want to wrap them out and complain, but it might cost me 20 $30,000 to pay my law firm to petition the government agencies to have them do nothing until someone dies.

[00:18:57] Right. Well, you know, it's, it's [00:19:00] crazy. Um, so consumers, but where like of any powder, you know, it can be hazardous to blow up in your face. There's a lot of things that could happen.

[00:19:08] Carl Lanore: [00:19:08] Um, but wait, wait, wait a minute. This is magnesium that people take now, or it's pure mech unbalanced too.

[00:19:15] Unbound to anything

[00:19:17] Alex Tarnava: [00:19:17] non ionic will make museum. So actually  I

[00:19:21] Carl Lanore: [00:19:21] mean, they make, they make a, they make a phosphorus bombs with magnesium.

[00:19:26] Alex Tarnava: [00:19:26] They make flares with it. Fireworks. Yeah. It's

[00:19:30] Carl Lanore: [00:19:30] just not magnesium glycinate or magnesium oxide or magnesium.

[00:19:35] Alex Tarnava: [00:19:35] It's just making the easiest. So the magnesium you buy from like the pharmacy or the supplement store or online that cannot make hydrogen, this is the element, the non-ionic metallic magnesium, uh, that, that can split the  two off the water when actually prompted.

[00:19:52] Because if you just put normal name museum, like if you just put the element of magnesium in room temperature water, no hydrogen gets made. Right? It's not really prone to [00:20:00] reaction, right? You have to really kind of. Do it properly and prompt it and catalyze it properly. Um, but, uh, yeah, no. A lot of these companies are selling this, like military grade, magnesium, fireworks, magnesium, you know, empower for.

[00:20:17] You know, and supplement. It's that

[00:20:19] Carl Lanore: [00:20:19] dangerous though,

[00:20:20] Alex Tarnava: [00:20:20] that it's dangerous. Exactly. So, you know, um, to kind of get off track with the tablets, uh, we ended up, you know, being able to get them, you know, we have a new dietary ingredients status with the FDA. We're compliant with every governmental department and our high Jaimal tablet form.

[00:20:35] Like it's shit, we're no longer hazardous materials. So by our process, it's not flammable. It's not explosive. Right? Once we compress it back to solid. Um, so that, that was kind of like the  to digress there for a second. But, um, there was another capital on the market back in the day that just came out.

[00:20:55] It literally came out for Twitter slowly at the same time I was getting powder in [00:21:00] play, but, um, you had to steal it for like eight hours to get 1.6. Parts per million

[00:21:06] Carl Lanore: [00:21:06] seal, the seal, the bottle that you would decanting it, the bottle,

[00:21:10] Alex Tarnava: [00:21:10] close the bottles, fuel it under pressure

[00:21:12] Carl Lanore: [00:21:12] too much would escape in the process that they want, not keep it all the water.

[00:21:16] Alex Tarnava: [00:21:16] They hadn't gotten the dissolution and reactive reaction kinetics down properly and it tasted awful. The first step I took out of it, I, I spit it all over my kitchen. It was a worst tasting thing I'd ever tasted in my life. Um. But it that gave me the idea and I'm like, okay, I need to put it in the caplet.

[00:21:34] Um, I, I started working around with those, trying to make those better as I was working on, you know, my, my, uh, you know, my own custom. Right. Exactly. Um, and I ended up getting tablets. I would get five parts per million under pressure, but a thermos exploded in my kitchen. You know, in my, you know, cause yeah, you're getting that under very high PSI.

[00:21:56] Right. You know, and I was having to, you know, pry them open [00:22:00] and put them, you know, uh, in a, in an FID scrap and pry the lids off cause they were getting knocked off reds or it was crazy stuff that, um, and along the way I realized, you know, I know I know enough about chemistry, but I didn't want to be, uh, you know, um.

[00:22:18] When a Darwin award and kill myself, you know, thinking smarter than I am. Um, I found my founding partner, uh, Dr. Holland, he's a PhD, medicinal chemist, organic chemist by training in the pharmaceutical industry. Uh, he called it the worst pseudoscience he'd ever heard in his life.

[00:22:35] Carl Lanore: [00:22:35] When you went to him with all this

[00:22:37] Alex Tarnava: [00:22:37] wood, I went down with all of this.

[00:22:38] He said it was a worst pseudoscience he'd ever heard in his life, but I started giving him, you know, some of the better. You know, publication work that I was doing and you know, he said, okay, it looks like there's enough evidence for that as a supplement. But as I kept on giving them papers, you know, one kind of, again, fortunately what was on a subject he was developing a drug for and he [00:23:00] said, listen, you know, unless this is, you know, fraud, right, this stuff works.

[00:23:05] You need to commercialize this. Cause I was just doing it for my personal use. At that time. Right. I wasn't, you know, going down the line of commercialization. So you

[00:23:14] Carl Lanore: [00:23:14] had basically developed this product for yourself and you were using it, and then this fellow prodded you and said, this science is real.

[00:23:23] This is something that you could commercialize.

[00:23:26] Alex Tarnava: [00:23:26] Well,

[00:23:26] Carl Lanore: [00:23:26] yeah.  you

[00:23:28] Alex Tarnava: [00:23:28] said that  I knew it was something, it was in the back of my mind, but I had no experience in the field. You know, I had a business that was, you know. Relatively successful. It wasn't something like, this needs to be my new calling.

[00:23:43] Right. I mean, him and some other, you know, instances of just, I don't know. It's just that comment and you know, a comment from, you know, my, my current corporate attorney who I showed him what I was doing, you know, didn't give me the first bill [00:24:00] for like 20 hours of work on a handshake that he'd be my corporate attorney.

[00:24:03] Right? Like, wow. I'm like, you know, maybe I'm, I'm. Onto something here. Yeah. You know, Alana, you know, people are saying, I'm not billing you. Let me be in on this. Right. So I was like, okay, I've got to go full bore our first year. Well, it took us like three weeks to get the chemistry and formulation right.

[00:24:26] For a sealed container to get where we wanted. Um, but then. It was a year, it was 15 scaled, failed scale up attempts and a couple thousand ITER of adjustments or failures until we got our first production ready tablet. Right. Because it was so different to make 10 tablets, you know, and I'm ordering PESTEL to make a million on big equipment, right.

[00:24:49] Right there, monster run fast and be compliant with all these government agencies and everything. It was, it was, it was incredibly challenging. Um. And from there we just [00:25:00] had some happy accidents that led us to discover this open cop tablet, right? That we're creating Nana bubbles and the 30 40 nanometer range, which don't operate under, you know, the same physics as large as the

[00:25:12] Carl Lanore: [00:25:12] regular bubble.

[00:25:13] Right. They basically, they basically become homogenous with the liquid that there, and especially if the liquid has anything that adds any type of viscosity to it.

[00:25:24] Alex Tarnava: [00:25:24] You know what, when you, when you add polysaccharides, it's one of my pending patents, uh, by, by adding polysaccharides and the gels and everything, you can actually go really high in concentrations, uh, but in the water itself, uh, the, this quasi dissolved cloud of Nana bubbles, they neither, um, completely dissolved without accompanying pressure as for Henry's law, but they also.

[00:25:49] Won't escape. They just randomly move through. It's kind of cool looking at them under microscopes. Um, it'd be sort of Eddy currents. They're going in all directions, these [00:26:00] currents that

[00:26:00] Carl Lanore: [00:26:00] they're just not go up. They're just not hitting the surface and leaving. Yeah,

[00:26:03] Alex Tarnava: [00:26:03] exactly right. They're just moving around, you know, like waves going through the water, um, and tell they got about over on micron.

[00:26:12] Right. But the smaller they are, um, the more it ultras, there's that a potential and they actually resist coalescence the, so the smaller you go, the more stable they are in staying small so that that's what our work has been on the next couple of thousand that are of adjustments is making sure processing AIDS don't impact this reaction and dissolution kinetics and getting the bubbles small, small, small.

[00:26:36] I mean. You know, nano diffusers that cost sometimes like thousands of dollars in commercial units sometimes, like, you know, you'll get a unit that's maybe seven, eight, $10,000 for home use. Uh, they call them nano buckles, but they're in the 700 800 nanometer range. We're in the 30 to 40 nanometer range.

[00:26:53] Right? Right. And that's why we can get

[00:26:56] Carl Lanore: [00:26:56] so much a greater density [00:27:00] of trapped. Well, cause

[00:27:03] Alex Tarnava: [00:27:03] the smaller they go, the longer than antibiotic bubbles last, right. They're resisting. Right. You know, you kind of like merging with other bubbles, Cola right here. So that, that's kind of how we've went down this road.

[00:27:17] Um, you know, we, we've gotten, you know, the FDA new dietary ingredient status, and in three years we've gotten the NDI. Um, and we have five publications to date. Um. Regarding humans using our tablets.

[00:27:31] Carl Lanore: [00:27:31] I want to come, so I want to talk about those. I want to take a break. I want to take a break and when we come back, I want to get into the actual product and some of the studies that your company is actually involved in.

[00:27:42] And I want to summarize for people what they will notice if they start using a drink. HRW the website is drink hrw.com I noticed changes in my stomach that have stayed with me, uh, even since I've stopped using. Uh, and I want to talk about that because we know that the stomach [00:28:00] likes a certain gases.

[00:28:06] Uh,  creates an environment of gas is two hydrogen and so on. Uh, and, and I want to talk about that relationship with adding this into the gut when we come back, because it definitely is good for people, uh, who are suffering from gut problems. Stay tuned. We'll be right back. Or super human radio.

[00:28:24] Alex Tarnava: [00:28:24] Welcome

[00:28:29] back.

[00:28:29] Carl Lanore: [00:28:29] We're talking today with Alex carnival

[00:28:34] with drink H. dot. W. dot com but more importantly, the genius behind coming up with a tablet that will infuse your water to a greater degree than most. Equipment available to you at the price points you would be attracted to. Uh, can do, uh,

[00:28:54] Alex Tarnava: [00:28:54] any,

[00:28:56] Carl Lanore: [00:28:56] okay. Well, there you go. Yeah, and I mean, like, this is, this is [00:29:00] now the gold standard for, for hydrogen infusion of water.

[00:29:03] That's what this is. And so why, why should people care? What will they see from using a hydrogen infused water? And maybe you could segue into some of the studies that you're involved with funding

[00:29:13] Alex Tarnava: [00:29:13] to. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And, um, for study studies that, you know, we're involved in funding, some of them actually, we haven't provided any funds, just product.

[00:29:23] Right? We're working with different, uh, public teams around the world, um, with war that we're, we're talking to. Um, and we have no gag orders with any of them. What that means is a lot of times public company or like, you know, private companies will tell a team, you can only publish the research if it's good for us.

[00:29:40] Good PR. Yeah, exactly. So we're, we're rolling the dice and putting our money where our mouth is. Um, all the teams we deal with can publish results no matter what the outcome, right? So we have no publication agreements or gag orders, um, hydrogen in general. Um. For a lot of indications, specifically, metabolic [00:30:00] probably has a dose dependent response.

[00:30:01] We get the highest points in the world, uh, but it's shown a benefit in 170 disease models. It's probably up to about 1500 publications now. It was 1200 about a year ago. Last count. There's, um, 80 publications in humans. Now I know this because I'm actually writing a book chapter for Elsevier USA, right on hydrogen as an exotic in this Asian, you know, for the human health span.

[00:30:25] So it's showing pretty prominent results for metabolic conditions, athletic performance, neurological conditions. Of course, there's caveats that there isn't enough replication work. Some of the studies aren't big enough. Some of the cities have flaws, but the overwhelming, um, thing to look at is across, you know, in vitro data to rodent and animal models to the early human work.

[00:30:50] The results are consistent. Through dozens of different public teams all over the world. The results are consistent, right? So the results aren't contradicting [00:31:00] each other. They're all pointing down the same trend. So the lots of science is strong, whereas there aren't, you know, any one or two really big studies that are strong, right?

[00:31:14] That the trends in the science are very strong. All right. Um, 

[00:31:19] Carl Lanore: [00:31:19] so, so, so, you know, when you say 160, 70 different disease models, you know, people right away go, Oh, you know, but, but what's the women? But wait a minute. Yeah. So, so, and we're, we're going to have another guest on the show, uh, that works with you.

[00:31:33] And that is the good doctor you mentioned before, right?

[00:31:36] Alex Tarnava: [00:31:36] Well, yeah. So he's been involved in a couple of, uh, no,

[00:31:38] Carl Lanore: [00:31:38] no, no. But, but he's going to go in deeper on this, but there really is from an evolutionary perspective, a reason why hydrogen. Water seems to have magical effects on the human condition, and that is that there is a good evidence that there was a lot more hydrogen in the water.

[00:31:57] We drank over millions of years of [00:32:00] evolution than there is today. Isn't that right?

[00:32:02] Alex Tarnava: [00:32:02] Yeah, I mean, there's been some cool things. Um, the, the oldest water that we've ever discovered, like deep, deep, like miles down into the, um, the earth that was founded Ontario, Canada a few years ago. Um, I think it was estimated that, uh, you know, over a hundred million years old or a few hundred million years old actually had detectable hydrogen gas.

[00:32:20] You know, like. You know, very high, much higher than in the water here. Um, I might be getting this wrong, but I know, you know, in, uh, speaking to, researchers had gone in to saying that one of the hypotheses on, on, um, I think they're eukaryotic cells, that, that actually used hydrogen gas as a fuel.

[00:32:39] And there's theories that they became our mitochondria. Right? So again, um, Tyler, uh, Tyler LeBaron is going to come on the show. He's a preeminent expert in the United States on hydrogen, you know, gas therapy. Um, so we, we don't really, you know, he's not involved with my company at all.

[00:32:58] Carl Lanore: [00:32:58] No, but he's, he happens, [00:33:00] this is, this is his wheelhouse.

[00:33:01] Like he's writing, he's worked on this theory that you just happen to come up with a cat, a tablet. You're just having a problem with a tablet, right? Yeah. Right.

[00:33:09] Alex Tarnava: [00:33:09] Yeah. He can talk about the science in a lot more detail than I can. Um, he has used the tablets on a couple of clinical trials he's been involved in, so I know him pretty well.

[00:33:18] Nice guy. Uh, his master's is in exercise and no sports science too, and he's a pretty good athlete himself as well. So he's an interesting guy to talk to.

[00:33:27] Carl Lanore: [00:33:27] And so that's, so talk about the athletic performance side. I noticed right away that I felt more refreshed throughout my workout and it wasn't placebo.

[00:33:35] Um, I've been trying, I've been training without caffeine in the morning and I cut my caffeine, my daily caffeine down to like a couple hundred milligrams a day. Right now you're going to find this

[00:33:46] Alex Tarnava: [00:33:46] super interesting, so I can't go into a lot of details on this, but one of the three trials that we have under review right now is a head to head, a N 23 crossover design, a 24 hour sleep DEP with alertness, scale test hydrogen [00:34:00] water with our college versus a hundred milligrams of caffeine.

[00:34:04] Right. And if I wanted to be equivalent. Wow. Right. They, they altered different spectrums of alertness. Right. And some responded better to hydrogen, some responded better to caffeine. Again, I can't go into a lot of details on it cause it's still under interview, but, uh, that, that's, uh, interesting.

[00:34:22] And we've gotten that anecdotally a lot is people will say, I find it better than caffeine.

[00:34:27] Carl Lanore: [00:34:27] No people won't,

[00:34:28] Alex Tarnava: [00:34:28] they find caffeine better. So there could be a genetic component there.

[00:34:32] Carl Lanore: [00:34:32] Right. Obviously. Uh, and so obviously it benefits performance number one. What is it doing magical for the gut? You talked about your kero sites and, and, and, and things like that.

[00:34:43] Uh, and we know that the microbes don't have a nucleus, but fun guy do. And, uh,  part of the microbiota environment, uh, fungi play a role. And because they have. A nucleus. They are [00:35:00] considered a high level of intelligence than a microbe. And they actually will corral and use microbes. They will gather, fungi will gather microbes that poop out the stuff they want to eat, and just like we would herd sheep, you know, and drink the milk from the goats or, or kill them and eat them.

[00:35:19] Uh, um. Fungi actually are a higher level of intelligence. They utilize and exploit microbes that they like. And so what, what, what role is the, is exposure of, uh, of hydrogen directly to the inside of the stomach doing in the area of the microbiota? Do you think.

[00:35:38] Alex Tarnava: [00:35:38] So there, there is, um, you know, half a dozen, seven, eight, nine, I can't remember how many, there's one in human cells that's relevant to this and wanting goats and the restaurant rodents that have shown that hydrogen possibly impacts the microbiota.

[00:35:52] Right. And interestingly, we're producing upwards of 10 liters a day of hydrogen gas through bacterial [00:36:00] breakdown of carbohydrates, right? So when the microbiota is impaired, we're actually producing less hydrogen gas. Endogenously. And then when we take it exotic, honestly, it's improving our microbiota.

[00:36:11] So maybe we're also then producing more HQ gas endogenously. So this is a area that needs future stuff.

[00:36:21] Carl Lanore: [00:36:21] Yeah, there's a lot of, there's a lot of work to be done in this area here. Um, and so.  people who use it for the gut, they noticed dramatic changes in their, in their gut, the quality of their digestive system pretty quickly.

[00:36:34] I noticed it within a couple of days.

[00:36:36] Alex Tarnava: [00:36:36] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we, we've got a lot of testimonials on things. I, you know, got Clyde esque. We're actually doing, I wrote him study at a university, um, on colitis, ulcerative colitis right now, those researchers and kind of general health with that. Um,

[00:36:50] Carl Lanore: [00:36:50] well, obviously your, your gut is better right?

[00:36:54] Alex Tarnava: [00:36:54] It's not as good as it was in my mid twenties. Right. But I mean, it was so bad [00:37:00] at one point that I'd have a glass of wine or you know, something and I'd be throwing up, you know, I just couldn't take it. And now it, alcohol doesn't affect my God anymore. You know, it doesn't make me, it'll, um, I'm back to my normal tolerance of alcohol.

[00:37:19] Um. You know, I, I definitely, yeah. Again, I'm not 100%, but I'm a hundred fold better than I was at my worst.

[00:37:27] Carl Lanore: [00:37:27] Right. Let's also talk about, uh, cause then I've got a couple of questions at the end that I want, I want clarification on. So what, tell me about the effects on longevity. Uh, there seems to be some sort of a.

[00:37:40] Effect on the quality of DNA when you use hydrogen and interesting enough, folks, we're not ignoring breathable hydrogen. It doesn't do the same thing as hydrogen in your stomach. We, sorry, we didn't address that earlier in the show, but that's true, right? That it doesn't do the same thing.

[00:37:57] Alex Tarnava: [00:37:57] Yeah, they're, they're there.

[00:37:58] We need, again, we need way [00:38:00] more analysis on different, you know, administration methods. Perhaps there's some ways where inhalation works better than, than water, but in the studies that exist, uh, dissolving in hydrogen has either been equivalent or superior to inhalation when inhalation works, and in some models, inhalation doesn't even work.

[00:38:20] Right. And all, whereas hydrogen water does, um, this could be tied to, you know, there's evidence that when you drink the water, you know, you know, you, you know, ghrelin, which comes with a lot of, you know, changes and, and, uh, also could be tied to the microbiota too when you're inhaling and it's, it's probably not gonna improve the microbiota.

[00:38:39] So again, we need more evidence, but so far it looks like hydrogen dissolved in water when the dose is sufficient is superior. You know, to gas, at least in most most models. Um,

[00:38:50] Carl Lanore: [00:38:50] and so from an anti, so from an anti, yeah. Longevity, anti-aging standpoint, how does that benefit

[00:38:54] Alex Tarnava: [00:38:54] us? So hydrogen has done a lot of cool things.

[00:38:57] And this is actually, you know what I'm writing this book [00:39:00] chapter on right now, hydrogen has shown to regulate autophagy, right? Um, it both up and down there was, you know, uh, you know, heart failure model where it, it. You know, inhibited autophagy, which was useful for that model. And then there's a couple of models where it's activated autophagy for beneficial outcomes.

[00:39:19] Um, hydrogen ha has, you know, seem to, to, you know, deal with Sanison cells and a pop ptosis. Um, it seemed to, you know, increased telomerase activity, um, irrespective of apoptosis driven. You know. Telomerase activity. Um, it seemed to regulate the inflammatory response or our redox status to the cell.

[00:39:42] It seems to only do this as needed, right? So there's some studies that show a very prominent, you know, anti inflammatory response correcting towards normal, whereas another, like studies where in inflammatory markers are normal and it's had no effect. Right. Which [00:40:00] is a good, same thing. In some studies, it's shown to be provocative.

[00:40:04] Stress. In small doses, you know, inside the cell, kind of like a Mito harm. You might have homeotic factor, um, which triggers a greater antioxidant response by the nerve to pathway, uh, nerve to activation. Uh, excess antioxidants have shown to increase you don't cancer, whereas hydrogen has shown to be.

[00:40:25] Anticancer and early, early science, including a few publications in humans, you know, and some in rodents. Um, whereas nerve to activation has shown to inhibit, you know, uh, the effectiveness of chemotherapy. Whereas, you know, there, there's rodent and human trials on hydrogen with chemotherapy therapy that didn't interact.

[00:40:45] Yeah. With the chemotherapy. So there's a lot of really interesting things regarding, and again, none of this is proven and kind of like a drug sense. It's just really cool. Early human clinical work and basic basic science. [00:41:00] Um, but, uh, what's really interesting to me about hydrogen is the current hypotheses is that it works via hormesis, but there, there's no dose.

[00:41:12] We know. Where it's toxic. In fact, in deep sea diving, uh, thousands of times dose of what we can, you know, inhale in or, or drink in the water, uh, hydrogen narcosis you know, you need more, so you get high. Right. But that's the same with , uh, indigent narcosis. It takes more hydrogen, you know, for narcotic, like effects than nitrogen.

[00:41:37] Oh yeah. 78% of what safety is, is super high. Um, but, uh, what seeming to do is regulate these other forms of . Right? So there's one really cool a study, um, with, with rats are forced to swim to exhaustion.

[00:41:56] Carl Lanore: [00:41:56] I love these. I love these studies. They did it with liver tablets too. [00:42:00] Back in the day.

[00:42:00] Let the little road in swim until they drown. That's the, that's the acid test. If something's

[00:42:05] Alex Tarnava: [00:42:05] wrong.  and, uh, that the hydrogen group  I think that it improved their swimming and everything for you. There's lots of studies in hydrogen of improving athletic performance. Um, a couple acutely, but mostly from chronic use, right.

[00:42:19] Probably needs a, a loading stage. Either. Probably need a very, very, very high dose of hydrogen for an acute benefit. Um, but a lower dose will work. If you load it for a week, two weeks, similar to creatine, you're not going to get instant results on one scoop 18. But to, so these rodents, actually, they hugely had higher oxidative stress than the control group, but they rebounded quicker.

[00:42:43] Carl Lanore: [00:42:43] Interesting.

[00:42:45] Alex Tarnava: [00:42:45] The damage was actually increased acutely, but then the rescuing effect came in. There's been studies with, you know, fruit flies starved where you, no one's given hydrogen survive longer. Right? So it's mitigating the, it's [00:43:00] mitigating the side effects of these other forms of, for me, ESIS, which, you know, are the best tools we have.

[00:43:06] You know, her mucosas are a lot of the best tools to extend our health span exercise, you know, fasting, cold exposure, heat exposure. So hydrogen has shown to mitigate the damages against them and even potentially the results. So I think hydrogen has a big future and being used in conjunction with these other.

[00:43:26] Protocols to extend your health, even with, with alcohol, ethanol, you know, there, there's more than one study showing that hydrogen, um, uh, you know, quickens the detox effect, right. Of ethanol. Right? And anecdotally, it's one of the biggest anecdotes we can get is people say, man, I, I'm not hung over.

[00:43:43] Wow. Okay.

[00:43:45] Carl Lanore: [00:43:45] So I have a couple of questions for you, and I'm going to tell people where they can go and get, drink a HRW product and, uh, talk about how to use it. Uh, because I know that you, you espouse using slightly higher doses on day before [00:44:00] training than you would just for, um, maintenance, let's say.

[00:44:03] So, yeah, there is a big interest in deuterium, which is a two hydrogen molecules bonded together. They call it heavy hydrogen or heavy water. Is drinking hydrogen water going to increase the ability of four deuterium to form in the body? You think.

[00:44:24] Alex Tarnava: [00:44:24] So basically, um, you know, the, the tablets, you know, and hydrogen water is not going to alter deuterium concentration.

[00:44:32] That depends on the source water, right? So it won't, we'll need their increased or decrease, you know, deuterium in the water you're drinking. Um, that said, if we accept, um. You know, the proposition from deuterium researchers that the mitochondria is essentially a deuterium depleting organelle.

[00:44:50] Then hydrogen is deuterium depleting because it improves the function of the mitochondria by altering our redox status. It, [00:45:00] it improves the mitochondrial inner membrane. It's, uh, um. It w it's shown to increase mitochondrial biogenesis by PGC one alpha. So by increasing the health of the mitochondria and the number of mitochondria, right?

[00:45:13] You could say that hydrogen is deuterium depleting, but again, we're, we're going and we're assuming that the statements from the deuterium researchers are true. Right? Right. If we're going to follow their statements, then hydrogen should be beneficial, and certainly it's not increasing.

[00:45:33] Carl Lanore: [00:45:33] Okay. Uh, what about, uh, uh, peroxide peroxidation of, of the hydrogen becomes hydrogen peroxide in the body?

[00:45:40] Is there benefits to that? Is that dangerous to that? And does it even happen

[00:45:44] Alex Tarnava: [00:45:44] hydrogen. Why color heterogenic, you know, won't become hydrogen peroxide anywhere in the body. Um, each two, Oh two, you know, is again, a form of hormesis. You know, you need it in certain amounts. Um, there's less evidence on molecular hydrogen [00:46:00] in H two O two, but you know, another reactive or another oxidative stress and other, a free radical nitric oxide, hydrogen and Shondra regularly nitric oxide in the body.

[00:46:09] So it seems to regulate the function of both our antioxidants and beneficial oxidative stresses.

[00:46:15] Carl Lanore: [00:46:15] So James Baum says, so yes, on hydrogen, uh, my workout partner told me to take it. And so we, we are saying yes on hydrogen. Uh, I've been using it. I actually have run out. Um, I was using it every day because it made my gut feel good.

[00:46:31] It made me, it just made it, you know, when you have gut problems, you become very aware of them, your, your sense of connectivity. To your gut and how it feels becomes heightened. And I, and, and I can tell you that my gut felt better. I could feel that something was going on. And they are, when I was using the hydrogen water, there's no doubt in my mind about it.

[00:46:54] Um, so yes, James, it's a, and you can go get, go to drink [00:47:00] H R w. dot. Com. We don't have a coupon code at this point in time. It's just drink HRW. Dot com. Uh, but John peek says he's finding this, uh, discussion. Very interesting. And definitely he's going to go back and listen to the podcast in full.

[00:47:15] Yeah. John is a over the road driver and it catches our show, uh, when there's traffic on the highway and he's stuck. No. Now he watches while he drives, he says he's, that he's, that he's that trucker that goes across the lanes all, he's watching us on YouTube, I mean, on Facebook. So anyway, um, yes, drink hrw.com that's it, James.

[00:47:35] Go there. It's a great product. And you know, so I put everything to the test of evolution. Like where would hydrogen have benefited us? How would we have gotten it? And there is evidence, and I want, I'm repeating this because everybody knows that you can show me science, but if I can't understand why from an evolutionary perspective, it would do to us what it does.

[00:47:58] And I questioned it. [00:48:00] And there is evidence that. Water had more hydrogen dissolved in it, and that's probably because we didn't drink from municipal plants that are recycling water over and over again. Water came from in the ground and no one's testing water for hydrogen, interestingly enough. But here's something interesting.

[00:48:21] Um, North of me, they have a. West Baden, Indiana, and you won't even know what this is. But back in the late 18 hundreds, early 19 hundreds, uh, they had two Springs there that people swore that no matter what they was sick with, when they got in and bathed in those Springs for a day or two and went home, they got better.

[00:48:44] Now, it may be placebo, I'll give you that. But here's the funny thing about it. Um, there are several sites of Springs like that around the world, and the one in West Baden became so popular that they actually have built a train stop. So people could [00:49:00] go back in the day, people didn't have private jet, they had private train cars and they would take their whole family and get in a train car and they would go across country and they used to stay at West Baden just to get into those Springs.

[00:49:12] And I've gone there and bathed in the water. They actually charge you now the health spa there. And the water stinks. It's smells of sulfur and it's, it's murky looking and it, and it, and it has a metallic smell to it and it's just really disgustingly gross smelling stuff. And people got in it and they said it made them better.

[00:49:35] I'll bet you money that if somebody took the time to test that water, they'd find out that there was a high level of hydrogen. And it's still till today.

[00:49:43] Alex Tarnava: [00:49:43] I know what, you know, miracle water sites like, um, Lourdes and there, there's one, I forget its name off the top of my head. Uh, in Germany, it's the D I, I'm having a bit of a brain fart.

[00:49:53] Uh, people have anecdotally reported that there's hydrogen in them. In the literature. It's actually showing that it takes less hydrogen when [00:50:00] dissolved in water to have a therapeutic effect on, you know, skin and muscle, tissue and joints. And again, um, we, we do have a case study under review, integrate to.

[00:50:10] Ankle Tara and a pro soccer player, and we have a full RCT registered on clinical trials.gov, um, it 20, um, 20 pro soccer players and it's, um, hydrogen bathing on ankle terrorists versus rice protocol, you know, to see if it's equivalent or superior. I think it's going to be secure. That's why I'm not one of the authors because I have a conflict there and I expect to see the results.

[00:50:35] But. Anecdotally, you know, we, we, we sponsor a number of athletes, including, you know, um, a number of, uh, Olympic hopeful wrestlers and, you know, MMA fighters, a handful in the UFC and the combat athletes are finding that the bath tablets we give them are, are superior to drink it for their aches and pains.

[00:50:57] Carl Lanore: [00:50:57] Now, alcohol, you mean.

[00:50:59] Alex Tarnava: [00:50:59] No, [00:51:00] no, no. The bathtub. So you put .

[00:51:02] Carl Lanore: [00:51:02] Okay.

[00:51:03] Alex Tarnava: [00:51:03] I

[00:51:04] Carl Lanore: [00:51:04] thought you were saying that they drink a lot of to make up for their pain. No,

[00:51:08] Alex Tarnava: [00:51:08] no, no, no. And then drinking, you know, the hydrogen water, now they're noticing more energy and stuff of the hydrogen water. You know, they're, they're noticing benefits, right.

[00:51:17] But what really gets a lot of these combat athletes down is just the bruises and the aches and pains and stiffness from hard training day after day, getting beat up. And they're finding the bathing is just unbelievable.

[00:51:30] Carl Lanore: [00:51:30] Okay, I got to speak to this. So he says, do hypo. Do you believe that this is better than Kagan water that hears about Kagan water is complete

[00:51:37] Alex Tarnava: [00:51:37] BS.

[00:51:38] It has. And that's the $4,500 machine?

[00:51:40] Carl Lanore: [00:51:40] Yes. Okay. Kagan water is supposed to. Uh, it's supposed to, uh, uh, neutral, not neutralize, what am I trying to say? You change the pH of your water, right? It's supposed to be a, uh, alkaline water, alkaline water. They call all the outcome and water that is complete BS.

[00:51:56] Only suckers fall for that one. And here's why. I've [00:52:00] had two different doctors on my show, and one of them was an nephrologist and all he did was work on kidneys. And we talked about this premise of putting something down your throat that is going to change the pH of your body. I can't believe I'm having this discussion on, on the air.

[00:52:19] I just had this discussion this morning in the sauna with a guy who believes that because he drinks lemon water, he's alkalizing his body. So first of all, the pH of your blood and your two different things, the pH of your blood is different than the pH of tissue. Okay, so the pH of your blood is so narrowly regulated, you couldn't do, you could, you could pound down a full cup of baking soda and it would not shift the pH of your blood.

[00:52:51] Hardly at all, if anything, hardly at all. Nothing. If

[00:52:54] Alex Tarnava: [00:52:54] you're going to interject, one teaspoon of baking soda has more buffering capacity, you can [00:53:00] 10,000 liters from water ionizer looking at magic,

[00:53:02] Carl Lanore: [00:53:02] right? And it doesn't end. It doesn't do it. So, so, so now let me tell you something that no one talks about when they talk about pH, but tissue pH varies.

[00:53:12] So just because the, the, your blood pH is whatever, watch 7.2 is something like that. Um, you know, that brain and pancreatic tissue has a much higher acidity level, a much lowered, uh, pH by almost one entire, it's like six something. And that a heart and lung tissue tends to be a little bit more alkaline.

[00:53:36] So while the while the, the blood pH is regulated steadily, tissue pH does what it wants to do, what it's programmed to do. So you, there's nothing you can drink or stick up your butt that's going to change the pH of your tissue or your blood. And I just want, you know, people fall for this stuff all the time and, sure.

[00:53:58] Oh yeah. Kagan has [00:54:00] a study. I don't care. I don't care. Well,

[00:54:03] Alex Tarnava: [00:54:03] interestingly, uh, Carl, a lot of the Enagic reps, the Kangan reps, because they're getting nowhere with a lot of people on the alkaline and the pH, they switched to, um, Cancun machines use electrolysis. So they're producing actually a lot of hydrogen.

[00:54:20] Right? And a lot of the marketers call it the most powerful hydrogen giant generator on the market, which back in the day it was, but it's a very poor dissolving hydrogen, right? Because, um, one it needs, it needs TDS, right? Total dissolved solids in the water, you know, for, you know, uh, the, the

[00:54:39] Carl Lanore: [00:54:39] electrolytes, cause it's got to convert that stuff into hydrogen.

[00:54:43] Alex Tarnava: [00:54:43] But then when you have the TDS in their plates, don't have any. Any ability to remove calcification and scaling on the plates. So the more the better your machine works, day one, the quicker it doesn't work, even within a couple of weeks because a [00:55:00] of the scaling that occurs on the bubbles are too big and they just don't dissolve.

[00:55:05] Carl Lanore: [00:55:05] Okay. Now, but now I love it. But now let me tell you something really scary cause I didn't know that's how these Kagan machines worked. So do you know how they make? Okay. So heavy water is what they put in nuclear reactors because it has a very, very high thermal point. It can absorb a lot of heat.

[00:55:22] Heavy water is deuterium. It's pure deuterium. That's what it is. If you drink it, you get, you get cancer spontaneously. I'm joking, but you get the point. Um, you know how they make heavy water for nuclear reactors? They elect, they electrify water, they take plain old water and they electrify it.

[00:55:41] And under electrification. The oxygen model molecules are released and the hydrogens all bond together, and that is how they make deuterium. So I would love for somebody to buy a Kagan machine, test the water that they put in it, and then test it after the Kagan machine works its [00:56:00] magic and see if it has it increased the density of deuterium in that liquid that's left.

[00:56:07] Alex Tarnava: [00:56:07] I'm not sure. I, uh. I thought they made heavy water water through distillation. No large large counters. But, um,

[00:56:16] Carl Lanore: [00:56:16] no. I'm telling you, if you look on heavy water for nuclear reactors, that they electrify water in order to make heavy water. Interesting. Now maybe, you know, think about it. I mean, that that's going to raise water above boiling point, right?

[00:56:29] If it's electric, if it's electrified. Uh, and so it could be, it's not steam distillation, but it could be a form of distillation because you're literally distilling down the water to one of its major components and releasing everything else. Distillation means increasing density more than anything else.

[00:56:47] Alex Tarnava: [00:56:47] So it's a good question. Um, when you have Tyler on the show to ask him about, uh, you know, deuterium and ask him about electrolysis, he knows a lot about these machines and electrolysis. I know a fair bed. I, I [00:57:00] know why they don't work, you know, better than I know the intricacies of how they work, if that makes sense.

[00:57:05] Yeah. I know your shortcomings are. Um, but, uh, they're, they're very bad at dissolving the HQ, so in a really good. Ionizer with perfect source water. Um, you might be able to get one PPM, which is one 10th of what we get, but you'd have to be cleaning that machine every, every day, right. To prevent scaling,

[00:57:27] Carl Lanore: [00:57:27] to take advantage of the, of the efficiency that the plates will even work because they're not working.

[00:57:33] If they have. Some sort of calcium coding on the, on the

[00:57:37] Alex Tarnava: [00:57:37] end. Exactly. And they get damaged once the scaling occurs. Even with the deep clean, even by trying to clean them, they never produce hydrogen bubbles small enough to dissolve. So it's just all coming straight up the nozzle.

[00:57:50] Carl Lanore: [00:57:50] So you could go to drink hrw.com.

[00:57:54] And you can take advantage of trying this hydrogen water infusing [00:58:00] tablet. Uh, it's very cool. I mean, it really, really is. And, uh, so you recommend that for athletes, uh, before working out, they take four tablets, right?

[00:58:12] Alex Tarnava: [00:58:12] Yeah. So I mean, it depends on your body. Your, your body size is probably depending on, you know, how many, how many kilograms you are, like, what your size is.

[00:58:20] I take four or five, but I'm 220 pounds. You know, and I do them, um, five to 10 minutes before I, I work out. Right? We see max concentrations of hydrogen, you know, in, in the cell at 10 to 15 minutes, you know, post consumption of water and it returns to baseline within an hour. Okay. Right? So you, you want to be taking advantage,

[00:58:43] Carl Lanore: [00:58:43] like as you're walking into the gym, you should drink it down.

[00:58:47] Alex Tarnava: [00:58:47] Exactly.

[00:58:48] Carl Lanore: [00:58:48] Um, probably re should you refrain from belching something? I've toyed with the idea of,

[00:58:54] Alex Tarnava: [00:58:54] um, you know, eh. It's hard to know. It's [00:59:00] hard to know, like what, what you could

[00:59:02] Carl Lanore: [00:59:02] do, not if you're squatting, right? If you're going to squat couch because you don't want to rupture your, your, uh, esophageal sphincter,

[00:59:09] Alex Tarnava: [00:59:09] remember numb.

[00:59:11] Most of it is going to be diffusing any everywhere. Like you're going to lose some hydrogen in breath, like exhaling it out, you know, they'll change all that stuff. But, um, hydrogen is the smallest molecule. Do you know, in the universe it starts at 120, Kiko. Right. It can make it into the mitochondria.

[00:59:27] You know, it's not going to follow, you know, out, out through breath, because that's a tunnel. Right, right. The molecules are so small. It goes between, everything is going to be going in every direction. Right. Yeah.

[00:59:39] Carl Lanore: [00:59:39] That's very cool. Um, how many tablets come in a bottle? 60. Okay. And, uh, what is a bottle cost right now?

[00:59:48] Alex Tarnava: [00:59:48] Um, it's a $60. I, I believe the link, um, that you send people to, um, on the ad that you ran on

[00:59:57] Carl Lanore: [00:59:57] that. Yeah. We have a banner This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.. [01:00:00] You can go there and get

[01:00:01] Alex Tarnava: [01:00:01] this discount on that banner ad. Excellent. That's right. I can't remember what it is. I don't tell your Villa discount.

[01:00:07] Carl Lanore: [01:00:07] Yeah, no, look, look, this is a, this is really an interesting molecule and, um, and, and absorbing it through the guts appears to be superior for the benefits that you're looking for. Then just breathing it. Um, so I, I would, I would tell people that if you want to try something cool and new for the new year.

[01:00:26] Uh, try this product, drink hrw.com, and I'd like to hear from you, uh, on air at Su-Preme radio.net. Email me. Tell me what your personal experiences. I give it two thumbs up. In fact, I was using two tablets on the days. I didn't train first thing in the morning on an empty stomach. And I could tell you that my stomach felt better and my dish digestion was better that entire day.

[01:00:54] So. I don't know what it is. There's a lot of science out there. People can dig into it. If you go to [01:01:00] pub med and you start Googling, uh, HR, uh, um, uh, hydro hydrogen infused water, you'll find lots of really good studies. And these. I

[01:01:11] Alex Tarnava: [01:01:11] was going to say, I have a lot of This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. the blog section, you know, I've got a 25,000 word piece on hormesis with 500 references.

[01:01:20] The last puts on hydrogen is thousands of words with 180 citations. Uh, we have hydro. You know, articles on hydrogen, hydrogen and you know, um, concussion recovery, which we have a case study on concussion recovery on insulin sensitivity on non alcoholic fatty liver disease. We, I have written a lot on a lot of content on it.

[01:01:38] Carl Lanore: [01:01:38] Okay. So go, so go to  dot com and you'll find everything you need right there, including you can get the tablets if you go through. Uh, one of our banner ads on our website, it's superhuman radio.net. Uh, you will automatically see a discount if you end up there on your own. Uh, put something in the message box that, you know, you, you heard about [01:02:00] it on supremer radio and maybe they can pass that whatever that discount, uh, is a

[01:02:04] Alex Tarnava: [01:02:04] little, your service can help.

[01:02:06] Carl Lanore: [01:02:06] Yeah. Yeah. All right. So we're going to have another show where we're going to get deeper into the science, but more so we're going to take a look at the evolutionary connection. Uh, uh. Between hydrogen and the human condition to further this discussion. But Alex, I want to thank you so much for being on with me today.

[01:02:23] Alex Tarnava: [01:02:23] No problem. Great. Great to be here.

[01:02:25] Carl Lanore: [01:02:25] Everybody stayed tuned because when we come back, I want to talk about a meme, a meme. Am I pronouncing it right? That I posted yesterday, uh, about fish oil? Stay tuned. We'll be right back. Meme on Instagram and Facebook. I know fish oil is all that, but no one complains of fish burps eating salmon.

[01:02:47] And while it's designed to be a little funny. Um, it's, it's very true. And like, I don't know anybody who doesn't complain that they taste fish oil and burp it up for hours and hours after they take it, unless they're taking krill. [01:03:00] And it's not because of the quality of the krill oil is because krill oil is so little.

[01:03:03] It's such a small amount of, of, of fish oil as compared to. The average, uh, Omega three supplement, I would say low level that you can buy at a Walgreens or Costco is probably a 1.2 to one and a half gram. I mean, it looks like a frigging suppository. It's like this big, right, golden clear. And you know, people take a couple of those and they burp 'em up, but they keep taking them anyway because, you know, fish oil is so good for you, so good for you.

[01:03:36] And. I know there are people out there who don't like to eat fish, right? There are, there's no doubt about it. And I feel bad for you because fish is amazing. It's like, it's such an amazing food. It's unbelievable. Like, it has all the benefits of meat, uh, without any of the purported potential, uh, uh, undesirable things of meat.

[01:04:01] [01:04:00] And for vegans, it doesn't have a face, so you can eat it. Um, but. I, I've been eating a pound of salmon a day. I know, Carl, you overdo everything. No, but I've been doing it for a reason. Purposefully. Um, a pound of, of grilled salmon has about. Between 10 and 15 grams of Omega three fatty acids in it, especially if you eat the skin like I do.

[01:04:29] I love the skin, and if it's crispy, it's so much better. But I, if you eat, uh, even, uh, four ounces, six ounces of, of good salmon and eat the skin too. You're getting so much great Omega threes, but you're getting so much more and proof of that is the fact that you don't burp it up. The fact that people burp up fish means is something that they're not able to digest.

[01:04:57] If you're burping it up, it's staying in your [01:05:00] stomach. It's not moving downstream. And I've even taken fish oil capsules with food. And lo and behold, an hour later I'll burp and what do I taste? I taste the lemon flavoring of the fish oil or the mint flavoring of the fish oil or whatever else they flavor fish oil with.

[01:05:20] Because every, the reason they flavor it is cause every freaking body burps it up. So you burp up laminate, it's not as. Undesirable as burping up fish. But the reason you're burping up lemon is because it's stuck in the fish oil and your body for some reason, isn't liking the fish oil. So why not just eat more salmon?

[01:05:43] There's so many ways to get salmon inexpensively. The canned salmon, I've done shows on it. I did a show two years ago, I think it was maybe three, about the value of a can of salmon. It's like 14 ounces. Uh, it's like eight grams of fish. Uh, Omega three [01:06:00] fatty acids, plus all other oils and nutrients and wonderful things that these beautiful fish give us when we, when we feast on them.

[01:06:09] And. You won't burp afterwards, which tells me instinctively that that's a better way to get your Omega threes. Then taking fish oil capsules. Now I know we'll break. He writes about fish oil and, and I know that, uh, Metagenics makes amazing things like SPM actives, which are concentrated fraction of certain, part, part of the, uh, Omega three fatty acids and fish oil.

[01:06:34] And they really do stop pain and they really do help recovery. But imagine if you just ate a piece of salmon every day along with whatever else you eat, eggs in the morning and chicken for lunch. Just imagine the accumulation of Omega threes and God knows what else and your body likes it that you'll have.

[01:06:56] And I'm sure it'll impact inflammation. Everybody who writes a book, [01:07:00] anytime you see your book about the ant, the inflammation diet, how to bridge your body with inflammation, salmon. Salmon is like a centerpiece of the menu. Yeah. Yeah. So I did this meme yesterday and I had some people say, well, I don't like fish, and I feel bad for them.

[01:07:18] I really do. Because they're really missing out, um, on an amazingly healthy food that will actually allow you to thrive. And guess what? And so I've said in the meme, when I, when I posted this on Instagram and Facebook, I said, food, it's like supplements, but better. It's food. You know, everybody wants to take a pill.

[01:07:45] I don't know what it is. Our fascination with this, I guess it gives us a sense that we can harness things and control our outcomes by having this, I can control my outcome. I'm not gonna get heart disease. I'm not going to get. Diabetes, I'm going [01:08:00] to build muscle faster, I'm going to sleep better.

[01:08:03] I think it allows us symbolically to like have the answer we need in our hand in this little thing and take it. And it makes us feel powerful. Like, you know, we, we, we, we don't have to go, if we don't want to weaken, we can take pills and it'll keep us safe and, and healthy and everything. And the reality is it's really food that does all those things.

[01:08:24] If you choose the right foods. So if you're a big fan of fish oil, try replacing your fish oil with the a piece of salmon a few times a week, or be bold. Uh, I'm doing a salmon centric diet. I'm having eggs in the morning, I'm having salmon for lunch and I'm having salmon for dinner. Of course, I'm having some vegetables, but yesterday I ate a pound.

[01:08:49] And a quarter a pound and a third of salmon in the day, and I'm going to do it again today. I can't wait for lunch. My lunch is a one pound piece of grilled salmon from this place [01:09:00] up the street here called the Frankford Avenue beer distributors. They make the best salmon in the world. I can't wait to go up there and get myself a piece after the show is over.

[01:09:11] So there you go. Uh, try having salmon and back down on your fish oil and you'll notice that you don't burp from the salmon, and that alone should make you feel confident that you made a good decision. I will see you tomorrow with more superhuman radio. Thank you for watching and listening today.

[01:09:25] And don't forget to check out, drink hrw.com show them some love. They're a sponsor. Thank you. [01:10:00] .