[00:00:00] Carl Lanore: [00:00:00] Hey, Hey, welcome back to another episode of superhuman radio. Today is a December 18th, 2019 and we're going to be talking about a very interesting topic. There's a lot of discussion out there, uh, about the role of anabolic steroids in a variety of mental changes. Uh, most notably, a study was recently published about anabolic steroids and psychosis.

[00:00:25] And I couldn't think of anybody else better to have on the show all the way from Athens, Greece, Dr. George . How are you doing, George?

[00:00:35] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:00:35] Hello, Carl. Thank you for being back to the show for the sixth time actually seems 2015. And hope to meet you again only in Columbus in the next anaplastic in March.

[00:00:46] Carl Lanore: [00:00:46] Yeah.

[00:00:47] Yeah. I think we'll be there because it's so, it's so close to me. It's so easy for me to just drive there. So I'm, I'm sure that Elisa and I will be in attendance, so we will.

[00:00:55] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:00:55] So as a matter of fact that I had an invitation from a totally, we call us in [00:01:00] to speak in a, in a round table regarding to stuff's on his pores.

[00:01:04] How can tot can be justified in professional athletes as being.

[00:01:13] Carl Lanore: [00:01:13] Yeah, absolutely. Listen, this, this is something I've been arguing for a long time. Okay. So it's interesting that you bring this up. So, um, uh, Phil, uh, what is the name? Phil McKinney. Phil Mickens, the golfer. I can't think of his name right now. Right. Um, he's, he's a famous golfer. He, he suffers from psoriatic arthritis.

[00:01:37] And so I argued, uh, that he is actually using performance enhancing drugs. And people say that's

[00:01:46] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:01:46] ridiculous.

[00:01:48] Carl Lanore: [00:01:48] Well, yeah. And so people say, well, that's ridiculous. He, he has psoriatic arthritis. Well, let me, let me, let me, let me get it straight here so. He [00:02:00] could not play as good as he does without using the drugs that he uses to treat his psoriatic arthritis.

[00:02:09] So, so by definition, these drugs are enhancing his ability to perform. So they are. Air go performance enhancing drugs. So yeah. Otherwise he, he's not a pro golfer. He's just not. And so how is that fair that he can use, uh, his, his, his drugs of choice to treat his psoriatic arthritis? Uh, but, but, but the guy who is older who is undergoing andropause, who's losing his energy, uh, can't take testosterone to restore that ability, uh, when the condition is, it's a condition just like psoriatic arthritis.

[00:02:54] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:02:54] Yeah. Uh, actually I believe because he has this, uh, defect, uh, [00:03:00] through the, the, this disease that. She's not having any, a remarkable advantage over the other players. Because the other players, of course, they're not disabled. They, their joints work well. So basically I believe he, he goes in the same level as them because otherwise, cause we really disabled.

[00:03:15] And when we understand that in golf, you need to be perfectly well your reflexes and your joints, it should work. Tremendous benefit.

[00:03:28] Carl Lanore: [00:03:28] Oh, are you? Oh no. Wait a minute, George, are you telling me that?

[00:03:38] Yes, but that's my point. Why? Why should a guy who's in his forties who could still play and still has the skills, but he, but because he's getting older and his testosterone is dropping.

[00:03:54] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:03:54] And he's not using testosterone as a other gear, you know, as a, as a doping [00:04:00] method. Then I believe.

[00:04:04] Yes.

[00:04:05] Carl Lanore: [00:04:05] That's my point. Phil Mickelson couldn't golf. He couldn't be a pro golfer if it wasn't for the drugs that he takes to treat his psoriatic arthritis. It's the, you know, it's so stupid the way we apply rules.

[00:04:24] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:04:24] The same occurs for asthma. So in asthma, they use beta two stimulants as broker dilators right now and as a endurance athlete who rants, for instance, thank kilometers, he has to justify the use of a of a salbutamol inhaler before the show along with his attorney and his coach.

[00:04:45] Otherwise, if he's mastered with this a beta two inhaler, then he is in his band. Obviously.

[00:04:55] Carl Lanore: [00:04:55] It's just unfair. It's, it's unfair the way they draw the line [00:05:00] in what is acceptable and what is not. In sports that affects,

[00:05:05] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:05:05] no, the only benefit, somebody who's using TRT over an attic guy would be not the, the, the, the levels, because they may have equal levels.

[00:05:13] The plenty of that we see in that are, but you have steady levels, unlike the Nazi guy that. They start declining from the morning to the night. So if the event is placed in the evening. He should have lower levels down. The other guy who uses steady levels, three injections for instance.

[00:05:31] Carl Lanore: [00:05:31] Well, but, but that, but so there's lots of way to cope with that.

[00:05:34] You could use subcutaneous injections of fast acting, non  fide testosterone that's going to disappear in a few hours. I mean, that's the problem. The problem is the double standard. The problem is that pharmaceutical drugs can be prescribed to athletes, uh, to allow them to perform better.

[00:05:58] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:05:58] Of Barcelona, [00:06:00] who's the best player in the world. He used to use, um, growth hormone as an adult, as, I'm sorry, as in as in a teenager, because he was really short. Thank you. Catch up in height. But anyway, he was using us a before he became a professional player. He was a good scene. Go through ammonia to catch up on high.

[00:06:21] So I don't think it was a, something, a bound from a FIFA, you know? And um, so it was, it was justified.

[00:06:30] Carl Lanore: [00:06:30] Yeah, of course. Cause he had, he had, he had idiopathic short stature and that's how you treat it. But that was when he was young. Cause that, was he taking growth hormone as a pro? I don't think so. No. Of course

[00:06:42] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:06:42] they wouldn't.

[00:06:42] They wouldn't. After, uh, the, the professional plates closed, then you become a gigantic .

[00:06:50] Carl Lanore: [00:06:50] Yeah, you're done. You're done. Growing. Exactly. So  he took when he was young, shouldn't even count, but it's really, it's really a double standard. It's a, it's phony. [00:07:00] It's phony. When you look at sports in general today, everything has advanced in sports.

[00:07:05] So, uh, if I'm a pitcher, I can have surgery to put my tendon. Uh, through. My elbow instead of her over my elbow so that I could pitch better and continue to pitch longer. If I'm a golfer, uh, I can have radial keratotomy done to improve my vision. Uh, I, I can, I can use. A new training methods. I can use, uh, technologies that are being used to help recovery.

[00:07:36] But as soon as I stick a needle in my ass, I'm somehow breaking the law. It's so, it's so disingenuous. We don't, we're not playing with the same baseball bat. Or baseball gloves. We're not eating the same diets. We're not doing anything like we used to do back in the day. Everything is advancing. The idea that an athlete can do surgeries to [00:08:00] improve his ability to play his sport, but he can't stick a needle in his ass, to me is just complete nonsense.

[00:08:08] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:08:08] Yes, I believe it has to deal with the chemicals.

[00:08:13] You know the hormones and the style, because they are the synthetic derivatives. I like to start on that. It's a familiar hormone and a man cannot live without this stuff. So you can live without the growth hormone, but the deficiency of under post, you cannot act like a man. Right. And the same goes for an acid, of course.

[00:08:30] Right. Right.

[00:08:31] Carl Lanore: [00:08:31] So let's, so this is a nice segue into the discussion, right? So there are, there are plenty of studies out there that show. Both, um, mental changes under the use of anabolic steroids. And there are other studies that show no mental changes under the use of anabolic steroids. So in your professional opinion as a doctor, do you really [00:09:00] think that.

[00:09:02] A byproduct of using performance enhancing drugs. And I'm talking about let's separate out testosterone and the other things that trend bologne and so on, because we can't lump them all together. They're, they're very, very different. So, so do you think that, first of all, just using testosterone is going to change somebodies, uh, outlook and mentality and even lead to psychosis?

[00:09:27] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:09:27] No. Uh, there is a dramatic shift and change to the better from the depression of a hypokinetic man who's going through a hundred poles when he's a level of solid hypogonadism. When she introduces into TRT and he levels become, you're gonna take just with 100 milligrams or 150 milligrams, obviously we are talking about sort of ethical pharmaceutical, pharmaceutical grade.

[00:09:52] And stuff in doses, reasonable doses that there are within the rains. Now, if you over do these things, [00:10:00] you owe the testosterone. Obviously you, you pass too superficial logical doses that may to some people according to the history, to the, to the family history or to the medical history, the user, um, may treat, give some hypomania, some restlessness, some insomnia, you know, some.

[00:10:20] More than like a disorder, because they affect the department educator receptors and  receptors. And of course we know that reduction of the are always, as you said previously,  problem wanted GHD. They're still responsible for other benefits and some of the side effects that the special on death. So the HD is, is a very antidepressive.

[00:10:45] Hormone. So in magic, now you have a super match of gauge STI. Then you may go to the other side, which is hypomania, super self esteem, you know, which is kind of resembles the manic depression and [00:11:00] bipolar disorder, mainly. Mainly the hypomanic and manic episodes. When you not very fluent, you know, you, you interrupt the others, you change subjects, you talk so much, you know.

[00:11:12] So it's the other side of the depression that goes after the withdrawal symptom of testosterone and AAS.

[00:11:22] Carl Lanore: [00:11:22] Okay. So it's obvious that sex hormones play a role in brain function. Okay. So let's, let's kind of go back for a second before we talk about, uh, those who are using them or abusing them. We know that children who become schizophrenia.

[00:11:41] Become schizophrenia as they go through puberty. We know that the brain change. Yes, we know. We know that these hormones have the ability to effect the effect the brain. We know this, we see this in girls and boys. When they start to go through puberty, [00:12:00] their personalities change and some of them train show drastically that they could be labeled as having, uh, some sort of personality disorders.

[00:12:08] We know this so clearly. The introduction. Of these hormones can make the brain function differently. We also know that as women go through menopause, because andropause is much slower, but as women go through menopause, which is much more abrupt of assessor cessation, we know that their personalities change.

[00:12:31] We know that there's good studies out there that show the lack of oxytocin. Produced because of the drop in estrogen. We know that the lack of oxytocin impairs their ability to be empathetic. It makes them feel sad about their lives. They just get depressed. Men do this too, but it's a much slower process where the guy just becomes older year by year becomes grumpier and meaner and so on.

[00:12:56] So we know that sex hormones play a role. In [00:13:00] modulating behavior. We know that that's undeniable. So what does the role of abuse of abuse of using super physiological doses that athletes use have on brain changes? What do you think?

[00:13:16] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:13:16] I believe it's up to the, to the user. You know, it doesn't happen to all.

[00:13:20] I believe that this discussion won't be approved by recording. So bill welling, because they believe that. Officially right away. That does not happen in something exclusively personalized. And, uh, we shouldn't, eh, they want to eyes those four, making somebody an asshole to a great asshole. But according to some studies from Harrison poll, which is a Harvard, a psychiatrist, he administrated overdose of a anabolic on identic steroids, for instance, to eight individuals where.

[00:13:55] I'm into bodybuilding. And some of them, [00:14:00] um, showed, uh, paranoia and schizophrenia effect, which is, you know, it's, is a psychotic psychosis about the prevalence of 10%. However, what is the most important is that before they ever used steroids, they didn't have this kind of, uh, uh, disability, these kind of a paranoia.

[00:14:21] And you know, these schizophrenia can, these psychotic soul. In the first time they administrated steroids to them. Tamper, stand up. Some of these people who are in the experiment showed these psychotropic phenomenon,

[00:14:36] Carl Lanore: [00:14:36] which, which speaks to the statement you made before this, and which I completely agree with from personal experience, and that is just like alcohol.

[00:14:45] If you are already predisposed to having. Some, let's say rough edges around your personality of you tend to be an asshole. Just normally alcohol [00:15:00] will make you a bigger, a whole, and in some cases, using performance enhancing drugs will make you a big a hole as well. So it can't be said that across the board that the abuse of anabolic steroids will change your personality.

[00:15:14] You just have to have that predisposition. Would you agree with that statement?

[00:15:19] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:15:19] Yes, but we have to agree that, uh, large weights and aggressiveness in general, it's a, it's an official side effects even at 1% or 10% of the potential users. So within that, the own prescription paper that is enclosed within the box of the social room sold in the pharmacy, it is included among the side effects that it may happen 1% or 10%.

[00:15:44] I'm only gives her this aggressiveness. And perhaps in over dose. So if you should do 150 milligrams at once, instead of using, for instance, 50, 50, 50, every three days, or maybe every three weeks to two 50 milligrams. So it's [00:16:00] according to the dose, according to the person, it's according also to other users of other recreational drugs such as cocaine, certain alcohol, you know, my Awana or having a personal history of, uh, of in your, in your asses, you know, or, um.

[00:16:16] You know, um, so being not normal. So this guy, this guy has higher tendency of, uh, giving side effects according to somebody else who was, uh, who was never diagnosed with any psychiatric defect in his life.

[00:16:33] Carl Lanore: [00:16:33] Now we're talking by and large about testosterone right now, and, and more so HRT versus abuse. But what about when you start to add some of these other more exotic forms of anabolic steroids, like the DHT type derivatives, like Masteron or even, uh, the progestin, a trend bologne when you start to add these into the mix, w w we're no longer talking about.

[00:16:58] Something the body is accustomed [00:17:00] to. So those probably would present a greater degree of behavioral changes, I would imagine, than just testosterone, right?

[00:17:09] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:17:09] Yes. I believe it has to do directly with the under genic, uh, index and the agentic ability. Now I learned from Patrick Carnel that the more of the Jenica Sampson, he's, the more effective we'll be passes through the blood brain barrier and attached to the energetic reset when the hypothalamus.

[00:17:24] And these questions. Of course, HPD is oppression, but also some aggressiveness. So hello, testing flux, mr on and trembling. Eh, there are several times more on the  and I believe they cannot be compared with Anala, which is the least intergenic compound. Or for instance, wastrel, which also another high anabolic but low androgenic.

[00:17:47] So I believe it has to do with the energetic ability of the particular steroids. But however, Nan's Alanna, which is the most widely used steroid in the history, anabolic [00:18:00] steroids. It's anabolic steroids with a moderate anabolic activity, but quite low under Jannik. However, it has to be shown that nandrolone kind of caused some damage in the limbic system in hippocampus and amygdala areas of the midbrain and limbic system.

[00:18:18] Of course, it has to do with behavior and emotions. So. Definitely it has to do with the under genic index of the steroids, but also you see that nandrolone has a very low under the new city. However, it can do some damage. I believe that damages occur in all the overdoses, so she's kind of milligrams one gram per week instead of the, uh, medically prescribed 50 milligrams, for instance, per week.

[00:18:44] For your joints or for your  or for you and anemia.

[00:18:49] Carl Lanore: [00:18:49] So this, the two things that I want to address here through the first one we're going to talk about in a bit and in why, why science has really failed. Uh, when we talk about these, uh, when we talk about [00:19:00] performance enhancing drugs because they lump everything in all in one.

[00:19:03] The other thing I wanted to mention was of all of the anabolic steroids, correct me if I'm wrong, nandrolone is the only 19 nor testosterone derivative, is that correct?

[00:19:16] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:19:16] I guess, and also tremble on, he said dairy, but they will not rule him, but also 19, 19 nor,

[00:19:23] Carl Lanore: [00:19:23] but it's also, but it's also a progestin, right?

[00:19:26] Trend bologne is a progestin.

[00:19:27] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:19:27] Yes. They have for gestational activity. And, but used to say that projects, things are linked to cardiovascular disease also. Yes.

[00:19:34] Carl Lanore: [00:19:34] So, so, uh, when we talk about nandrolone it could, part of the reason that it seems to be a bad actor, uh. On the brain, because typically 19 nor testosterone is in much lower supply in the body than testosterone itself.

[00:19:55] So by taking these high doses of 19 nor testosterone [00:20:00] derivatives, we're actually artificially kind of taking. The balance away from testosterone 19 nor testosterone by boosting it up so high. Could that be the reason why, even though it's not androgenic, it seems to change the brain.

[00:20:17] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:20:17] Now, what I know is that 19 no derivatives are very suppressive Twitch PTA, and when you use them, you have to double the dose of testosterone in order to.

[00:20:30] Counterbalance the, uh, erectile dysfunction side effects from the, uh, progestational activity because it waves, it's also prolactin and which is inhibitory to the . And therefore, for instance, if somebody uses a hundred milligrams of DECA.

[00:20:49] Carl Lanore: [00:20:49] Didn't work. That didn't work for me. I saw I was using a gram of DECA and two grams of testosterone, uh, back in [00:21:00] 2008, and, uh, and, and 600 milligrams of trend Malone and  a week. And I still had, uh, some erectile

[00:21:09] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:21:09] dysfunction from it.

[00:21:15] Carl Lanore: [00:21:15] I'm sure my prolapse prolapse, I think it was prolactin. I didn't get any sensitivity in my eye. I don't aromatize much at all. Uh, but, uh, I, I think it was prolactin for me.

[00:21:27] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:21:27] I do. Yeah.

[00:21:29] Carl Lanore: [00:21:29] Interesting. So the other thing is, has, hasn't science failed when they talk about, uh, anabolic steroids. Or they talk about a performance enhancing drugs.

[00:21:43] They don't break out the, the different forms of anabolics like we're talking about now, which all have very different characteristics, very different effects, very different pharmacodynamics and pharmacokinetics and, [00:22:00] but they just lump it all together. Like it's all the same when none of them are, I mean, testosterone is good for the body.

[00:22:07] Many of these other drugs we're talking about are not necessarily good for the body, but more importantly, they have completely different profiles and actions. Hasn't science failed by not breaking things out and being specific that this does this and this does that?

[00:22:23] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:22:23] Well, if you dig up in the online and you do a medical, or we shared, it's about the steroids, you're going to see that the stone was synthesized in 1935 and then the first, eh.

[00:22:33] Stereos was synthesized Diana Ball in 1954 and then 1959 the rest of them, but almost all of them, they had medical users and for medical proposals, specific air, you know, diseases and symptoms. Um, as we said in the previous show we had, or some of the shows we had, uh, I was going to drink stairs are not the first choice of a cat over, over the pharmacist or [00:23:00] of a medical doctor in order to treat any disease.

[00:23:02] So. As I, as I told you before, in order to treat anemia, they're not going to use the Oxy methadone anymore. They're going to use a expensive EPO. So for osteopenia, they may use combination of calcium, vitamin D three and vitamin K two. Now, why this happening? Because bodybuilders gave the bad name, and I believe that doctors are tired, are very polluted and suspicious about these hormones because.

[00:23:29] They are cheap. They can treat several different things like a Hixny anemia and osteopenia. And then I believe also it has to do with the big pharma sales. Now, as I wrote an article about this touchstone, this, that's not going to do the job or several other drugs like, um. You can improve it up if this option and can take off, for instance, five first, what?

[00:23:52] The restoration. Even those it can make your mood. They can take off the job that SSRI is do. It can also improve insulin [00:24:00] sensitivity. It can take off insulin or Metformin. It can also improve a anemia. I can take off EPO. He can take off also vitamin D three because it improves a customer retention and it is against osteopenia.

[00:24:14] And also of course it can improve hypergolic is that no other drug can do. So I believe that the big pharma doesn't like an embolic steroids because they're cheap and they're very effective, but mostly because body builders gave me a bad name through the abuse. But if you use 50 milligrams of DECA, 10 milligrams of  per day, or a hundred milligrams of testosterone per week, there's nothing I'll be at the plethora of side effects.

[00:24:41] Therefore, I believe. That they're going out. Um, the medical society will be less skeptical cystic about them. Now. It was very, it was very promising that the psychiatric society of Greece, um, um, give me a [00:25:00] call in and offered me to, to speak in a Congress last summer about listen about the positive effects of the  replacement therapy in the mental status of the hypogonadism.

[00:25:11] Man. So they are engaging, that this doesn't kind of heal and get improved. Uh, depression. And this is very promising. Um, being a, you know, a recognized from the psychiatric society, so they understand that this person still contributes to the wellbeing of the hypokinetic man. And the problem starts and begins when you abuse this and you go from hundred milligrams to one gram per week, you know.

[00:25:39] And every drug has a side effects, of course.

[00:25:43] Carl Lanore: [00:25:43] No, I agree. So, uh, and, and, and, uh,

[00:25:47] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:25:47] looking at

[00:25:48] Carl Lanore: [00:25:48] testosterone by itself, it appears to be very beneficial. As you point out. There's no money in it. I mean, my testosterone costs,

[00:25:57] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:25:57] tell me about toxicity. There's no lipid [00:26:00] toxicity. Okay. It's a familiar hormone. Okay. And.

[00:26:06] Honestly, no medical leave. We thought to still sit on atheist hypogonadism, end of

[00:26:10] Carl Lanore: [00:26:10] story and, and, and the reality is that if you're taking sensible doses now 250 milligrams a week is, is my prescribed dose and I've become lazy and I just take one shot a week because I have been injecting myself, you know, for, since 2007.

[00:26:30] Uh, for HRT and before that for performance enhancement enhancement. And so I'm at a point now where I, I'm tired of injecting, so I just do it once a week. And that's supposed to bring on the greatest, uh, undesirable effects, hair loss, a greater conversion of DHT, a greater conversion divesture dial. I don't see, I don't see that.

[00:26:51] Will spike

[00:26:52] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:26:52] will spike on the HD, will crash on SHBG and will liberate the printer. All ain't going to be.

[00:27:00] [00:27:00] Carl Lanore: [00:27:00] Yes, I am. And that's what happens to me, but I, I'm just taking it once a week. I'm, I don't, I don't want to take it more frequently than that right now. I just don't feel comfortable. And I, and I, I, I explored subcutaneous before anybody was even talking about it. And I did that for years. But what happened to me was they don't make the proper testosterone preparation for sub Q.

[00:27:25] So you inevitably will always get bumps and swollen areas and whelks and people don't like that. They don't want to have these big, hard necrotic fat tissue underneath their skin. Uh, so as a result of that, I had to get away from sub Q and go back to intermuscular.

[00:27:44] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:27:44] I've tried. It's up to you then. If I had no substantial difference in the, in the serum levels between subacute them and the individual, and as a matter of fact, I didn't like this oily lamps injecting oil into the fat plus.

[00:27:58] Uh, I, uh, I [00:28:00] think that the intermuscular administration is much more rapidly Robin van the fat because the subcutaneous tissue has poor vascular supply. Therefore. The justice center will enter this eco lesson

[00:28:15] Carl Lanore: [00:28:15] slowly. Right. Very slowly. Right. Um, so what, which of these, which of the, uh, performance enhancing anabolic steroids that athletes use, do you think presents the greatest potential, uh, for personality change?

[00:28:35] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:28:35] I believe there are the very intergenic compounds that Masha arts boxers. Uh, wrestlers use, and the Olympic weight lifters and body builders, they're very energetic ones. So hello, test influx, Mr. Owen tremble on but tremble on for bodybuilders because a wrestler or a livable way, we lift her, doesn't care about the muscle growth, but the, but the inner genicity that gives you [00:29:00] muscle strength and also message Reno alone, which is M three, a very under genic compounds.

[00:29:06] Now,

[00:29:08] Carl Lanore: [00:29:08] mental triad alone is severely dangerous for the liver, isn't that correct? Yeah,

[00:29:13] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:29:13] absolutely. One milligram pills. And they advise you not to use it over a month,

[00:29:20] Carl Lanore: [00:29:20] but the other, but the other problem with the trend bologne oral methyl tryin alone or injectable trend Balone acetate or an Anthi, the real problem with them from an athlete's standpoint, I don't see a lot of athletes using trend Balone because it completely crushes your cardiovascular conditioning.

[00:29:37] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:29:37] Yes, absolutely.  wouldn't care about this because the priority is the muscle must. However. Some CrossFit athletes come to my office and I tell them this is their worst practice. Usually if you're doing questions, he will crash on the VO two max because it lowers cortisol. Cortisol is responsible for Bowman day license, plus it causes release of prostaglandins that [00:30:00] lead to was and the twin of calf.

[00:30:02] And the plaintiff, um, I turn out way juice and have serious the right ways with fem Balaam. And with test and of course, plus the, the diet, you know, the stress about the show, but a kind of digging, remember those, um, those, um. Murders that happened. Verdo fucks killed his wife and he's mother-in-law, right?

[00:30:27] Oh, geez. Seemed some steal of his wife and you and her lover right now, a quick tie to kill. He's a

[00:30:37] Carl Lanore: [00:30:37] girl, right? They murdered that girl.

[00:30:39] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:30:39] The mate. Yes. Right. Plus, I remember, and also orcas Oscars were stories of  fiance. I believe that there was a cause and the cause was a woman. Plus, plus the anabolic steroids that give you a lesser combination.

[00:30:55] So everybody who commits to the crime that needs a serious reason. And [00:31:00] sometimes the passion that comes out of Urdu, say a religious hip and a woman. So out of nowhere, you cannot become a villain and equipment. Oh. But everybody can can become under certain thinking stuff, you know? So for every action, there's a reaction.

[00:31:15] If what? For every a result, there is a reason to.

[00:31:19] Carl Lanore: [00:31:19] Well, but the only, the only problem with this, this angle is so there was a wrestler who killed himself, his wife and his children. I think he had two children in Florida. Uh, and one day when they autopsied him, they discovered, number one, he had terrible traumatic brain injury.

[00:31:40] There was entire areas of his brain that had shrunken from, from traumatic brain injury. Number one. Number two, they said he had the testosterone levels 10 times that of a normal man, which who knows what that means because that's a very vague statement, but number three, what they didn't talk about was that he [00:32:00] had just been put on.

[00:32:02] SSRI antidepressants about six months earlier because of his traumatic brain injury, he was severely depressed, so they put them on SSRS. They never talked about the SSRS, and I want to, I want to mention something

[00:32:13] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:32:13] really the combination of it's just a rise in testosterone would be towards hypomania or mania because actually SSRI is give you a least.

[00:32:22] This personal views give you a tremendous relief.

[00:32:27] Carl Lanore: [00:32:27] Well, and so, so I wanna I want to throw something else out here, not to become, uh, to discuss the, the, the current status of, of, uh, of mass murders and, and the relationship to guns. So it's very suspicious to me. That, not a single person who is researching the mass shootings that have gone on in this country, which really started back in the forties, by the way.

[00:32:52] But we really don't talk about that. Um, the mass shootings that have gone on in this country since [00:33:00] 1966, the Texas, uh, university of Texas, a book tower, uh, where the guy was a, an ex military guy. And. He came home from the military, he was severely depressed. They put them on anti psychotic drugs. This is the part of the story you don't hear.

[00:33:17] All you hear is that he went up in the tower with the 30 ought six and he started shooting students in the campus. That was in 1966 I remember that. So every single mass shooter with perhaps there's a couple that don't fall into this category, but if you do some digging around, you're going to find out that every single mass shooter.

[00:33:39] Was either on an SSRI recently put on it or on it for a couple of years or on an anti psychotic drug. I find it very suspicious that in all of the discussions about mass shootings, we've explored everything. But the one question I've never heard anybody say is, I wonder what the role of antidepressants is [00:34:00] playing in these mass shooters and here, here's why.

[00:34:02] It's interesting to me. You would think that somebody would ask this question and look at the Godot? Oh no, there's no linkage, but no one is asking this question, which makes me think that there is a purposeful. Embargo on asking this question. For some reason when it's very clear that probably 90% of the mass shootings that have occurred recently in the past 10 years, every single one of those people, Dylan Klebold, that Columbine, all of these kids, all of these people, they're all on antidepressants.

[00:34:36] The real common link between mass shootings. And, and, and the perpetrators isn't the guns that they use or the devices that they use. It's the fact that they've been on mind altering prescription drugs. Yes.

[00:34:51] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:34:51] But maybe they also stiff cocaine. They abuse alcohol. And this is a chemical combination.

[00:34:57] Carl Lanore: [00:34:57] Yes, you're right.

[00:35:00] [00:34:59] Recreational drugs definitely can play a role in it, but the one common denominator, they didn't all sniff cocaine. They didn't all drink bourbon. They didn't. But what they all did do was they all were on prescribed mind altering drugs.

[00:35:18] Yes. They had a mental problem already and it, and, and they'll SSRI. There's a reason why SSRS have a warning that they may commit caused suicidal thoughts. It's because they . If you are depressed already and you take an antidepressant, what it does is it makes you feel nothing. No empathy, no sympathy, no love, no hate, nothing,

[00:35:38] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:35:38] nothing,

[00:35:40] Carl Lanore: [00:35:40] nothing.

[00:35:40] So, so killing yourself. No big deal. Killing 10 people, no big deal. No. Somebody needs to, you know, we have to stop blaming steroids.

[00:35:53] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:35:53] I believe those, those are borderline personalities that the four year students, they get affected by joker, the field who [00:36:00] you know, and they start having hallucinations and misconceptions.

[00:36:05] So one day they have a bad day, you know, bad memories from school, and they go to the school man, they weapon out there at Tommy gun, you know, and the killer buddy.

[00:36:14] Carl Lanore: [00:36:14] Right, right. Exactly. It's not the gun, it's the people, and we're not going to be able to control them. You could take guns away from people.

[00:36:21] We're seeing this in England, in London already. The then the number of staff stabbing crimes and stabbing murders in London has gone through the roof. Why? Because they don't have any guns. When people want to kill people, they'll find a way, Hey, they'll run you over with their car.

[00:36:40] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:36:40] If there were more gums or less .

[00:36:42] Carl Lanore: [00:36:42] I don't know the answer to that. I don't. I really don't. And I, I'm a pro gun person, but I don't know that that's

[00:36:47] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:36:47] the case. Blame and demonize the gun position in America.

[00:36:51] Carl Lanore: [00:36:51] You know what? There, there are 300 million or so people in the United States and, and literally there's, there's this five times more [00:37:00] guns.

[00:37:00] Clearly the problem is in guns because if it really was guns, there would be a lot more murders, a lot more murders, and the idea that it's an assault weapon that's doing this is silly because the majority of murders are caused. Okay. First of all, two thirds of old gun gun deaths are suicide. So you can't stop that.

[00:37:20] If somebody's going to kill themselves, they're going to kill themselves, but,

[00:37:25] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:37:25] right. But, but,

[00:37:26] Carl Lanore: [00:37:26] but, but the, the majority of, of murders in the United States are done with handguns. Not, not, not AR. Fifteens in fact, rifles are rarely you.

[00:37:41] I agree. I agree. But it's, it's, it's a tough, it's a tough situation today, but I, again, I come back to the fact that nobody is asking this question, why isn't anyone saying, Hey, do antidepressants have a role in any of these mass murders? Any of these people are manta antidepressants? Because once you see the [00:38:00] answer.

[00:38:01] You can't ignore it. We're going to take a quick commercial break. George  has a book called the good, the bad, and the ugly of bodybuilding. You can get it at his website, G, T O U l.com or amazon.com and it's a really interesting book because it looks at very, very. A balanced, it looks at the role of drugs and bodybuilding in general.

[00:38:26] Very, very good book. And he has positioned himself as an expert in the world of performance enhancing drugs in athleticism. So check out his website, G T O U l.com. We're going to take a quick commercial break. We'll be right back with more of this discussion.

[00:38:45] No, there's nothing else I've learned over the years. Doing the show. 14 now it's how important sleep is to aging and the onset of disease. Some people have trouble falling asleep, other [00:39:00] people staying asleep. Some people both, they can't fall asleep, and then when they finally do, they wake right back up.

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[00:41:42] Get your first week of REM rise for free when you sign up at REM rise.com/superhuman. That's REM rise.com/superhuman don't waste another sleepless night when there is a solution right [00:42:00] there for the asking. We're talking today with Dr. George . He is in fact an expert in a. An area of science that few pay attention to.

[00:42:10] And that is the use of performance enhancing drugs because nobody really wants to talk about this. They just kind of act like it doesn't happen. So dr Tuliopolos today, we have more and more women using, uh, anabolic and androgenic steroids in their chosen sport. Uh, women at greater risk of personality changes with some of these drugs.

[00:42:32] Well,

[00:42:33] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:42:33] women have the dominance of estrogens, and when they administrate a Jennica Exterro, so mildly under genic agents, uh, they, the bring-up terrible chemistry combination that also makes them more, uh, aging, you know, and irritated. However, administrating androgens to a woman will lead to, here's the themes and non irreversible side effects too.

[00:43:00] [00:42:59] Clitoris enlargement or depending on the boys. However, they have been noticed that they become more horny and sexually aroused with androgens. So by to give me women to start their own master on provide on, which is synthetic DHT and some other anabolic agents that are more under genic, like a Diablo for instance.

[00:43:21] They increased, they only Beto. However, they also aggressiveness. Uh, he's a part of the side effects. That happens also the women as with men, but I guess so females are more sensitive to androgens because they have a dominance or resurgence in their hormonal status.

[00:43:40] Carl Lanore: [00:43:40] I've also read that, uh, super physiological levels of androgens in women actually changes, uh, cardiomyocytes.

[00:43:50] It actually causes the development of fibrosis. Have you read that.

[00:43:56] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:43:56] No, by their cardiomyocytes. Survey are mainly [00:44:00] affected by stimulant clip utero hydrochloride, that it has necrotic effect in the myocytes of heart. And, uh, so it's, um, besides that, Clenbuterol stimulants can also lead to heart attack by was a constriction or Sarah bro stroke by, uh, the increase of blood pressure.

[00:44:22] But I never heard of that. What you said, that androgens may lead to a fibrous tissue of the

[00:44:28] Carl Lanore: [00:44:28] heart, muscle physiology, super physiological levels of androgens. Women who, however

[00:44:33] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:44:33] you know that, I'm sorry, I'm interrupting you. Co androgens. Women have the reverse effect. They lead to insulin resistance. I live with men that, Hey, you can, you can understand this by the polycystic ovarian syndrome where the HCA is super high.

[00:44:51] Unlike with men that they, when they have a higher androgens, the A1C and the incidences that DVDs higher, you know, [00:45:00] so in, in females giving an embolic steroids, take them closer to 

[00:45:06] Carl Lanore: [00:45:06] intro. And that makes sense because as you pointed out, women who have PCLs tend to have both higher testosterone and higher DHA levels.

[00:45:15] If they get here twoism hair on the face, they have irregular periods. So, yeah. And that leads to, that's interesting. Very, very interesting. So, um, do you think that with women that the, um. Mania could be more of a problem. Since you know a woman who's taking 250 milligrams of testosterone a week, which is really a dose for a man, is going to put her up in the 11 to 1200 nanogram.

[00:45:44] A deck leader range when she's normally under 200 or somewhere around that w C it seems to be reasonable that they would suffer more personality changes aside from the libido. Aside

[00:45:57] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:45:57] from that. Yeah. I had an interesting case [00:46:00] at the clinic two years ago when a girl from Israel approached us in order to become addressed gender.

[00:46:06] So it will be come from a girl to a boy. So she upvotes us. Actually, we could, a mother who was a den ecologist and the girl was on the in enough seats. So she was very worried and anxious, you know, that having a beer, you know, and then we start. So, uh, she told me that I wanna make this faster. So I asked you some provider on which is synthetic THC.

[00:46:29] So accidentally I called her, she, and she looked me in an aggressive way that, listen, I'm a guy now, so I believe that this two 50 testosterone she was using per week along with the  provider on that, they prescribed it as 50 milligrams per day. We make her aggressive and guess what? Guess what? She was a lesbian.

[00:46:51] She was a bodybuilder and a lesbian, and I guess she was a blame. There were all of the gains or the relationship, and I believe that the sourcer and [00:47:00] contributed to them that interesting.

[00:47:02] Carl Lanore: [00:47:02] Very interesting. Now, wasn't the provirus as well as Masteron originally created to treat women with breast cancer?

[00:47:12] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:47:12] Absolutely. Yes. He builds you a master Andro stand alone. Because before the administration and the the manufacturer of aromatase inhibitors, we used to administrate androgens in breast cancer. When we have the rise of estrogens.

[00:47:29] Carl Lanore: [00:47:29] Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, stop. But wait a minute. We'll go back.

[00:47:34] These specific androgens and non aromatase  and at the set at the same time and at the same time they suppress the production

[00:47:44] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:47:44] of

[00:47:47] Carl Lanore: [00:47:47] Right. That's why they were giving these women that. Was it successful? Do you know, was that a successful treatment for women with breast cancer?

[00:47:56] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:47:56] I have no clue. Back there. When I was doing my practicing the [00:48:00] country a 20 years ago, I would see at the hospital some a  that says for breast counselor and some hollow tests, and also for breast cancer.

[00:48:11] And what I know about is women develop a mustache. You know, here's what isn't as a side effect of the, of the other general administration.

[00:48:21] Carl Lanore: [00:48:21] And the, and that's because DHT is so androgenic. It's masculinizing PhD,

[00:48:26] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:48:26] actually in vivo. It's five times more under Denning than testosterone. Right. Okay. And, uh, you know, well, but in men, DHD is responsible for, for self-esteem of God called cognitive function, you know, and, uh, for, uh, for better mood, for higher libido.

[00:48:46] Carl Lanore: [00:48:46] And, and, and, and for the fetus, it's responsible for the development of male genitalia. Yes. That's how powerful. That's how powerful DHT is. If

[00:49:04] [00:49:00] of course, you're going to end up having a, you're going to end up having for sure you're going to have a boy, but, but, but that's a different discussion. So. So with women, it's becoming more and more prevalent to use androgens. Back in the 70s, it was limited. Uh, eighties became

[00:49:30] Clenbuterol. I actually read a study probably 20 years ago that showed that Clint Clenbuterol actually causes. A necrotizing effect of, of heart tissue. It actually causes, yeah, I mean this, this is a horrible drug. I can't believe that that athletes still use it. George. Well, they

[00:49:50] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:49:50] also use it in, in tracker sports, in track athletics.

[00:49:53] They also use it, um, in bodybuilding, but they also use it for endurance athletes, [00:50:00] you know, but actually with more inhaler is way more effective. Locally to the Bronx high for Broho dilation, however, can be utero. It's more effective in fat burning, and as a matter of fact, it's banned from WADA because it's more effective in fat burning rather than, so Buddha, mu, however, computer or use way more dangerous than  in terms of hypertension.

[00:50:25] Carl Lanore: [00:50:25] What about albuterol? Or is that the same thing as, okay, so albuterol is effective, but that's what they prescribe for asthma, right? Albuterol.

[00:50:35] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:50:35] Yeah.

[00:50:42] Carl Lanore: [00:50:42] Okay. Um, so in summary, you feel that this whole idea that psychosis occurs with the abuse and use of performance enhancing drugs that are. Built around the testosterone [00:51:00] molecule is is specific to an individual's predisposition?

[00:51:05] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:51:05] Yes. I'm going to tell you that they're called. Listen, not necessarily. I had, I was diagnosed with psychosis in high school even before I taught to steroid, and of course, touching the steroids was, was miraculous to me in order to develop my athletic and later my medical and.

[00:51:23] A career, but it was kind of sTraffic for my mental status.

[00:51:29] Carl Lanore: [00:51:29] How was it catastrophic for you

[00:51:31] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:51:31] buddy? Somebody may be very calm. Somebody maybe come to a Hoke by using these

[00:51:36] Carl Lanore: [00:51:36] drugs. So how, how, how specifically, how specifically was it catastrophic for your mental status? What, what, what? What did you present?

[00:51:47] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:51:47] So apart from some psychotic effects that I had in high school.

[00:51:52] I was diagnosed mainly with depression after having, you know, a first and the relationships with [00:52:00] women. But when I started using steroids for my first, uh, competition, then it triggered me to hypomania and mania. And then we all seem to lay there, took me to depression. And of course this was the manic depression, the bipolar disorder, but psychotic phenomena they would develop during.

[00:52:19] Uh, trembling, use hollow death, and use, you know, misconceptions, eh, wrong thoughts, ideas, eh, voices and stuff that may not happen to everybody. But I had maybe the genetic predisposition for that. Right. And

[00:52:34] Carl Lanore: [00:52:34] not everybody does because I've, I've used copious amounts of, of, uh, performance enhancing drugs, and, and, and in fact, I was going through the worst period of my divorce.

[00:52:47] When I was using, I was using, I was using not counting orals, 3,600 milligrams

[00:52:54] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:52:54] a week,

[00:52:56] Carl Lanore: [00:52:56] and I was more calm and more focused, and [00:53:00] I never had an evil thought or a threatening fight. I never thought about going and hurting anybody. I, what I thought about was moving out of Louisville, which was the smartest thing I did at that point in time.

[00:53:10] So again, I really think you're a predisposed. Uh, to these, uh, to these situations, to these conditions. So

[00:53:21] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:53:21] they may occur this phenomenon, you know?

[00:53:23] Carl Lanore: [00:53:23] Yes, I agree. I agree. That's a fact. Some people will have these effects. Now, will they stop using or will they enjoy their new personality disorder? That's another decision. That's a totally different thing. Some

[00:53:37] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:53:37] people, cocaine, cocaine makes you talk more mixed up more verbally, you know, having high recognition.

[00:53:44] But also cocaine abuse may lead you to mania and afterwards to depression and by bipolar disorder, you know? Right. So some people use cocaine in order to.  better, you know, and the, for instance, lawyers, but when they have this [00:54:00] withdrawal symptom and then a terrible,

[00:54:03] Carl Lanore: [00:54:03] yeah. I want to take our last commercial break.

[00:54:05] When we come back, I want to ask you. Uh, something that we didn't talk about. And that is about Metformin. There's a lot of discussion out there about Metformin use for anti-aging. There's a lot of bodybuilders that use it. I want to get your take on Metformin when we come back. The website is G, T O U l.com.

[00:54:21] You can get his book, the good, the bad, and the ugly of bodybuilding. It's a fantastic book. If you're a bodybuilder, you should read it. If you know a bodybuilder, you should read it. It's great. Stay tuned. We'll be right back with more superhuman radio.

[00:54:36] Welcome back to superhuman radio. We're talking with Dr. George  all the way from Athens, Greece. Yes, sir. We are worldwide baby. So George, um, have you been paying attention to the whole Metformin? Bodybuilding discussion at all?

[00:54:56] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:54:56] Yes, absolutely. I'm using Metformin, but I [00:55:00] avoid the using Metformin while I'm on G H because I stay for limbo says he can hinder your gains by low in emperor and  levels.

[00:55:11] Now, this is explaining because Metformin mimics the fasting condition and a and P K. Elevation protein that, uh, is linked to longevity, unlike that muscle growth and is linked to editorial elevation and Philip or information that IGF one does. So by using growth hormone and Metformin, then you can't, you have a one step forward and one back.

[00:55:36] So because growth hormone leads to insulin resistance by, uh, gluconeogenesis and release. Glucose from the liver to the bloodstream. Then you have to avoid this by using alternative supplementation like berberine, for instance, Crum, because the native animals to feed and avoid hypoglycemic carbs, but it's meant for me.

[00:55:58] Yes, it's a very promising and [00:56:00] low dose, 500 milligrams as age management and on the aging a drug of course, and people who don't care about their muscle effects and muscle growth. However, there was a wait this study that pointing out some something carcinogenic in it before. Do you have more, um, inform that?

[00:56:18] Carl Lanore: [00:56:18] No, I don't. I saw this study, but I, I don't know. I didn't, I didn't really pay too much attention to it. I think I shared a study recently that showed Metformin in nematodes. Uh, that it actually shortened their lives, didn't prolong their lives and health. So all the research on Metformin has been done in diabetic people.

[00:56:38] First of all, sick population. There's very little, um, research done in healthy people, number one. But more importantly, um, so you know about rapid myosin, right? Okay. So rapid myosin is, is like. Is like Metformin in the way that it suppresses mTOR [00:57:00] for up to three days. So six milligrams of Matt rapamycin will suppress  for up to three days.

[00:57:05] I use rapid myosin periodically. Once a month. I pick three days where I'm not going to train. And so I have become very good friends with dr McKell. Black is cloney. And so I messaged him, uh, about three weeks ago and I said. I said, Misha, has anyone looked at the use of Metformin in the face of a high protein, high leucine diet?

[00:57:35] And he said, no. I said, do you think that if I was to take Metformin but then proceed to eat 400 grams of high leucine, high quality protein a day, would it still suppress mTOR? He said, that's a great question. No one has looked at that. So one of the things that I think is interesting is. Those [00:58:00] people out there taking Metformin for anti-aging purposes, but they are bodybuilder types who are eating 200 300 400 grams of high quality protein a day.

[00:58:11] They may actually be derailing the effects of their, of their Metformin. It may not be suppressing them, tore it all. They may be switching it back on with the copious amount. So when I take, when I take. My rapid myosin once a month for the following three days. I do a minimum of 16 hour fast and I don't eat any protein those three days, I protein fast as well.

[00:58:42] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:58:42] Yeah, yeah,

[00:58:45] Carl Lanore: [00:58:45] yeah. So I, I wanna I wanna I want to leverage it. I want to, I don't want to compete with it. So I purposely, after he said no one has looked at the effects of a high protein diet on any of these, uh, M Tor suppressors, it makes me think that they may [00:59:00] not work as good as you think of. You're still eating a high protein diet.

[00:59:06] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:59:06] Yes. Higher protein, higher leucine for H. and B. Yes.

[00:59:10] Carl Lanore: [00:59:10] I mean, it's basically a tug of war. You've got the M M Tor suppression on one side, and then you have the  stimulation on the other side, and let's face it, if the  stimulation is greater than the  suppression, MTR is going to be turned on.

[00:59:27] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:59:27] Yes. It's up to you.

[00:59:29] What is soon as Carl. Yeah,

[00:59:31] Carl Lanore: [00:59:31] and the other thing is why not? Why not just do intermittent fasting? Why fool around with the drug that we're learning may not be all that great for the gut and a variety of other things?

[00:59:43] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [00:59:43] Well, not that anybody can fast for a long time. You know it. Especially if you lift Carl.

[00:59:48] I don't really, I don't get how you live. How you able to train after six 16 hours or fasting?

[00:59:53] Carl Lanore: [00:59:53] Oh, I, I, I've been doing it for years.

[00:59:59] No, [01:00:00] no. I usually have a cup of coffee and that's it.

[01:00:05] I just have coffee and I go in and I train very hard and I trained for long periods of time and I don't get, it's not like I can train more if I eat because for me, training is mental. I have a lot of pain in my body. I

[01:00:19] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [01:00:19] have.

[01:00:23] Carl Lanore: [01:00:23] Well, and, and, and, and obviously my muscles are restoring glycogen. Right,

[01:00:28] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [01:00:28] right.

[01:00:29] Carl Lanore: [01:00:29] Yeah. So, yeah, but I, I've been

[01:00:31] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [01:00:31] trying to,

[01:00:34] Carl Lanore: [01:00:34] no, no, no. I'm more of a Mediterranean diet. I eat the way my ancestors ate. Yeah. Yeah. I'm working a Mediterranean. I don't, I don't need, I don't eat kedo I eat low carb. Uh, and the carbohydrates, I tend to choose the vegetables.

[01:00:48] Of course they, so they have very little, but now, you know, it's the holidays here. And so all bets are off. I'm making canolas for Christmas. I mean, I'm going to eat a [01:01:00] lot of crap around Christmas time, but then I'll bounce back.

[01:01:06] Very nice. Very nice. Very nice. So, anyway, to wrap this up, I think the, uh. The official opinion is that if you're in a hole, you will be a bigger a-hole on on androgens. And that's pretty much it, right? Yes.

[01:01:25] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [01:01:25] It's very generalized  that also hypokinetic men are very nervous. Yes. Okay.

[01:01:33] Carl Lanore: [01:01:33] Yes. In fact,

[01:01:33] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [01:01:33] so I believe that you go to those pages the best either not below in the North high who's low.

[01:01:42] Good.

[01:01:42] Carl Lanore: [01:01:42] I'm sorry.

[01:01:43] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [01:01:43] And gets posted on. He's gonna. He's gonna feel superb. The point is, abuse will lead it. The plethora of the side effects is the use versus abuse.

[01:01:56] Carl Lanore: [01:01:56] You think 500 milligrams a week is abuse.

[01:02:00] [01:02:00] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [01:02:00] I'm using the kudu Abalene, uh, every other day at five milligrams, just to bring a slide under catabolic environment in my body.

[01:02:08] As soon as they did not disrupt my leap, it's in my lever and they do not boost my hematocrit. I'm going to use this as much as I can. I don't believe that training me to dump some deck up or weak will lead to any calcification in my arteries. If I had any costume score, it was because I've used it up to 1000 grams or one gram per week when I had to bulk up from my buddy bill in Columbus.

[01:02:32] But, uh, now I'm not doing this reckless things. Because, you know, it matters to me about longevity and on the aging and replacements therapy is about looking younger, right?

[01:02:46] Carl Lanore: [01:02:46] I agree. And you can be as strong as you want to be on 250 milligrams a week. The truth

[01:02:51] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [01:02:51] is, yes, it's multifactorial. Of course, one grounds we make you a supermodel, but it doesn't mean that two grams will tend to Hulk, [01:03:00] you know, as it's proportional.

[01:03:02] Uh, just the side effects you have.

[01:03:05] Carl Lanore: [01:03:05] Right, right. No, I agree. Uh, the website is G, T O U l.com. A lot of it is in English. A lot of it is in Greek, but you can get the book there, the good, the bad, and the ugly of bodybuilding. Plus, you have a YouTube channel you write for muscular development.com. Correct? Yes.

[01:03:22] What's your YouTube channel, George?

[01:03:25] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [01:03:25] It's just to buy the, is there? I have only my Greek, uh, seminars, you know, and the TV appearances. So actually people can find me on a muscular development, their YouTube, and also balancing my hormones because it is a clinic online clinic from the U K that I cooperate with patients for a tot in T.

[01:03:49] and. A. Yes, I'm a monthly contributor to the muscular development magazine and online of course, uh.

[01:03:57] Carl Lanore: [01:03:57] There you go. And G, T O U [01:04:00] l.com is your official website, so people could start there and find everything else that they want. George, thanks for being on the show today and Merry Christmas.

[01:04:11] I kiss your grandmother for me.

[01:04:16] How's she doing?

[01:04:19] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [01:04:19] My grandmother?

[01:04:20] Carl Lanore: [01:04:20] Yes.

[01:04:22] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [01:04:22] Yes, my grandmother, yeah. She kind of recovered, you know, and she took a few steps. Um, now we try to avoid the infections, you know, for the lungs. And, um, but she, you know, her mental status a really good, she take a few steps. We shoot her DECA every week at 100 milligrams for labs are perfect.

[01:04:44] And, um, you know, the, the last, the last year, um. She was really, she really struggled with the infection since she was hospitalized three times. But after our previous show, which was held on, [01:05:00] on April, the Greek Easter, uh, she stayed home and sees you really recover, you know, and, uh, hopefully we're going to have a Christmas table with her.

[01:05:12] You know, of course, each year is really, um, it's a, you know, one year in those people is 10 year for us. It's really, uh, much it's making it more difference, you know? But, uh, she's very precious for us. And, um.

[01:05:32] Carl Lanore: [01:05:32] Yes. And I hope people caught that. And if you haven't caught that, you've got to go back and listen to the show where George intervened and his grandmother's outcome.

[01:05:43] She was in the hospital. She wasn't doing well. In fact, you really thought that this was the end for her, and you work with the physician there to get permission. The physician that was working with her to, to treat her using androgens and she bounced back. And that's an,

[01:05:59] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [01:05:59] you [01:06:00] know, yeah. Anabolic. So, but yes, well, but also the HCA and a plethora of supplementation like colossal, which you can multivitamins, um, many things,

[01:06:11] Carl Lanore: [01:06:11] you know, you need to, so you need, you need to get, um.

[01:06:16] When you're here, I'll make sure to get you some LL three seven. And some thymus and alpha one that you can travel back with. Because for the

[01:06:24] Dr. George Touliatos, MD: [01:06:24] infections,

[01:06:27] Carl Lanore: [01:06:27] all five is an alpha one, not beta for thymus and alpha one, uh, is a powerful antiviral. And LL three seven is a powerful antimicrobial, antifungal, and you would these two peptides, right?

[01:06:43] But with those two, with those two peptides, you can actually read her body of any pathogens that are lingering. So I'll make sure that I make sure that I send you home with that when you come in in February. All right, George, thank you very much. Merry Christmas and we'll talk to you [01:07:00] soon, okay? Okay. And we'll share about it tomorrow with more superhuman radio.

[01:07:05] Tomorrow is the a renew life RX show. Ronnie Milo is going to be on with us. We got a lot of good things to talk about there. Uh, thank you for listening today and see you tomorrow. [01:08:00]