[00:00:00] Carl Lanore: [00:00:00] hey, welcome back to another episode of super human radio. Today is January 13th, 2020 and, uh, this interview actually wasn't really planned, but, uh, last week I did a show, uh, with Tane Clark and, uh, Jared Boynton. And, and before the show we had this whole discussion and a discussion was about DECA. Roblin uh.

[00:00:26] Which is a very popular anabolic steroid performance enhancing drug. And a, it's got some nasty side effects and a lot of people don't like to use it for that reason. Uh, but I learned something when I was talking to attain heaven. Let me bring them on here real quick. Hey, how are you doing Tane? So, uh, I learned something that, uh, you know, back in the day.

[00:00:52] A lot of guys used to run DECA all by itself. In fact, here's a little bit of information you probably won't [00:01:00] find from any of the health fitness or anti-aging podcast out there, and that is that Sammy the bull Gravano John God, his right hand man, uh, used to use DECA only. Uh, he was a strong guy. He was an aggressive guy.

[00:01:19] And I, I don't think he had any problems in the bed room, uh, with, uh, with erectile dysfunction, which is something that, uh, DECA is blamed for. Uh, and they didn't have Viagra back then either. And so clearly. Something has changed. And we're going to get into this today with this idea that maybe a DECA only cycle isn't a terrible idea.

[00:01:44] So, Tane, uh, I'm just going to adjust my microphone. I look my, uh, a camera a little bit here. Sorry. So let's start at the beginning. Uh, so DECA only cycles were used back in the day, right?

[00:01:57] Taeian Clark: [00:01:57] Uh, yeah. Basically [00:02:00] if you, if you ask any old pro, and this is what I went through too, you know, I asked every old pro, then I started discovering literature.

[00:02:07] Um. Uh, there's actually a book by a doctor that treated a lot of the patients in California. And, you know, every, every patient seemed, uh, he mentions it was always DECA and never a test. Um, us annual pro, like I have like, you know, Robbie Robertson. Um, Danny, it was, it was always that guy. I asked Robbie buddy, he says he'd never even heard of anybody using testosterone back from basically sixties, up until the early nineties.

[00:02:34] There was the only people that would ever mention testosterone was actually the powerlifters.

[00:02:39] Carl Lanore: [00:02:39] Interesting. And I guess that's because a testosterone pro provides a greater degree of androgen is city than DECA. Let's talk about DECA for a second. Its origination was actually to help women with breast cancer.

[00:02:54] Uh. You know that, right? You going to know about that?

[00:03:00] [00:03:00] Taeian Clark: [00:03:00] It, how do we use for a Nemea osteoporosis, I believe

[00:03:04] Carl Lanore: [00:03:04] yes. And, and women with breast cancer couldn't take aromatase using products because they were trying to suppress estrogen. And so, yep. They would lose, they would be, their bones would become thin, they'd lose a lot of muscle and so on when they will on estrogen blockade therapy, which is the standard of care for, uh, for, uh, breast cancer.

[00:03:26] So they were given DECA Daraban, which is a 19 nor testosterone. So. Let's talk about the relationship. First of all, between 19 Knorr and testosterone. What, what is it? It is, are they, uh, antagonists? Are they agonists? Do they live side by side? Happily? What exactly is the relationship?

[00:03:47] Taeian Clark: [00:03:47] What do you mean? In what context? I'm like, uh, we know 19 or testosterone. DECA is produced naturally in the body, but it's at very minute amounts. And so it's, it's so Sirat is. Um, you know, it's, [00:04:00] uh, you know, progesterone and progestin, uh, derivative. The, the thing I think people get confused with here is that they think you need testosterone, but the body doesn't necessarily recognize testosterone as testosterone.

[00:04:13] They recognize it as an androgen in what ma, you know, what actually goes on in the bodies. That receptor is what carries out all the facts. Or you know, whether it's penis tissue or you know, your, your skin tissue or muscle tissue, it's whatever activates the receptor. And when it's. Whatever binds and activates a receptor, it's a receptor that carries out those effect right there.

[00:04:31] We're set there. We'll start signaling muscle growth or muscle repair. There were separate restarts, a signaling facial hair growth, and that's why I've been, um. Well, what does it for like a five AR deficiency med vulner without five AR or have low, they will even use, or they have these mega doses of testosterone to fill the place of DHT, even though it was a silly way to go about it.

[00:04:50] But you know, did she could still have the same activities as testosterone? They're all just dose dependent for which receptor. So DECA being an androgen. So those are all the roles that you saw. So [00:05:00] it just, you need different doses for different receptors basically.

[00:05:03] Carl Lanore: [00:05:03] So, so let, let, let me, let, let me cover something.

[00:05:06] Repeat something. So everybody understands it. Your body makes 19 nor testosterone naturally, but it's a very small percentage of the androgens that are producers

[00:05:14] Taeian Clark: [00:05:14] right. Yeah. Uh, it's, I forget what the intro is. It's in the chain of somewhere where somebody is being broken down. And I forget off the top of my hat, but it's somewhere in one of the, it's somewhere in one of the chains and something's being broken down.

[00:05:28] It's in there somewhere where it's produced and just like minute quantities, but not a lot.

[00:05:32] Carl Lanore: [00:05:32] So, so is there, in fact an enzyme rich? So, so we know estrogen can be produced from testosterone through, through romantization, which is an enzyme. And we know a DHT is produced. Uh, from testosterone through five alpha reductase, as you just pointed out, is there an enzyme responsible for the production of, uh, 19 nor testosterone?

[00:05:54] Taeian Clark: [00:05:54] Um, like I said, I forget exactly where that minuscule breakdown is, but it's somewhere in [00:06:00] one. Is it one of the hormones? Okay.

[00:06:02] Carl Lanore: [00:06:02] Okay. So, um, today DECA is feared. I'll talk about my own experience and we can start there. But I know a lot of guys in the audience that are listening today are like, DECA leads to erectile dysfunction.

[00:06:19] So there was a period of my life where I was using a lot of performance enhancing drugs and, uh, I was using two grams of testosterone, a gram of DECA and 600 milligrams of trend, uh, nth. This audience that's been listening to me for years had heard this before. And I ended up with erectile dysfunction, even though I was taking two grams of testosterone above and beyond the DECA.

[00:06:43] But, but your conclusion is that it's really the testosterone's fault that I ended up with ed, right?

[00:06:49] Taeian Clark: [00:06:49] Yeah, correct. Um, explain that.

[00:06:53] Carl Lanore: [00:06:53] Please explain it in depth.

[00:06:56] Taeian Clark: [00:06:56] So, as we know, testosterone can cause many [00:07:00] guys, uh, erectile dysfunction on its own. I make me when they're, I shouldn't get too high and, or they're producing prolactin with it.

[00:07:06] Um, you know, the guys use an AI and you know, they're actually been come to die or whatever. Uh, so that goes since it's been used solo for. Uh, since 1960s is when you solo medically for multiple issues. Uh, HIV AIDS is, uh, one of the big things that used to be solo as a HRT replacement. They did HRT. Russ, DECA and DECA had much.

[00:07:29] Oh, quality of life. Now the thing with this and the world health organization, there's never been one single intent of libidal, you know, Lauren libido, sexual dysfunction in any single case of that guy medically. So we know DECA on its own doesn't cause it. Same with when you ask any old bodybuilder or same with my followers.

[00:07:47] You know, I have hundreds of followers. I'd been doing this for several years. You know, there's no ed, there's no erectile issues. The whole thing comes from the 90s, when we started using tests with DECA. And the reason that is so we know what [00:08:00] testosterone is, a powerhouse of estrogen, and then prolactin, even studies on TRT.

[00:08:04] So that prolactin group can go up to the higher normal range on just here, T alone. Um, when you add a DECA, so DECA roll with highs, there's a lot less. And, um. A study versus , sorry, testosterone versus DECA showed that DEC actually lower your prolactin. So that's another big myth. The reason DECA with TRT will cause libido issues is that DECA increases a romanticization and it increases your sensitivity to prolactin.

[00:08:29] So DECA on its own or with multiple other compounds is great. And finding the lower your prolactin, you know, your, your estrogen stays in a good, normal range. It's what you add the testosterone, it makes testosterone a powerhouse of estrogen and prolactin basically.

[00:08:43] Carl Lanore: [00:08:43] Oh, nice results. So, so are you suggesting, and we're going to talk about hyper androgen Nemea or men who are sensitive to androgens in general.

[00:08:54] So are you, are you saying that if someone were to take DECA alone, no [00:09:00] testosterone, they would maintain their libido, they'd maintain their erectile function and all the benefits of testosterone without any of the negative side effects. Uh,

[00:09:12] Taeian Clark: [00:09:12] basically, um, for the, for the majority of it, when you all mentioned negative side effects, obviously, you know, you'll still get your, um, internal side effects as most, you know, AIDS will cause, um, you know, whether it's a slight increase for his heart disease, you know, we're talking to super physiological doses.

[00:09:28] But yeah, basically. Um, and you know, that's not my opinion. That is the medical opinion. But they've used our decades. HRT, they've used DECA for athletes, for joints, just anything that use it. A meant there's never been one single report, an incident of a libido loss. And then when you want to look at real world, uh, results, you see all the guys from sixties, early nineties, you'd never hear one complaint of it.

[00:09:51] You ask them, you know, Hey, what's DECA Dick? They'll literally all. You know, they'll say, what are you talking about? We've got absolutely no idea what you're talking about. When you say DACA digs, it is literally [00:10:00] only an internet era thing, basically, where you know everybody has been using testing. So you know that that's where it came from.

[00:10:06] It's never been heard about before by anyone.

[00:10:09] Carl Lanore: [00:10:09] So is, is there a way to use testosterone Endeca together where the deco will actually lower prolactin. Uh, and, and you would see the benefits of the June joint lubrication and soft tissue, uh, Genesis and so on from that DECA provides, without getting the erectile dysfunction

[00:10:36] Taeian Clark: [00:10:36] You know, it depends on what your goal is. Some guys, like a lot of my followers, they just don't want to use testosterone because if I know a lot of people who come to me, there'll be guys where even TRT gets so horrible, Guignol horrible acne, horrible libido loss and whatnot. You know, they're the guys that are converting estrogen at a very high rate.

[00:10:51] Just, you know, kind of, you know that they're not the norm. So you can, you can either use it to your Tito's test, which you still may have to use an AI [00:11:00] and possibly, um, a prolactin inhibiting drug. Um, so you can either go, um, yes. So you can either up your AI to the dose you require, which, you know, getting blood work scene, you know, wherever you land.

[00:11:13] Um, and, or you may need a collecting called proc and helps with DECA, doesn't necessarily. Lower. The reason for electing slower is because it creates less

[00:11:22] Carl Lanore: [00:11:22] estrogen. Yeah. Cause you're cause you're producing because because of you on DECA by itself, your body would stop producing its own testosterone. So that's why there's no rise in prolactin.

[00:11:32] If you're giving your body a exogenous testosterone, then the prolactin is going to become an issue again, is what you're basically saying. Yeah.

[00:11:40] Taeian Clark: [00:11:40] So it's, yeah. And then once you get even a hundred milligrams testosterone, that deck is going to aid in making more estrogen than it normally would. And it's also going to increase your sensitivity to prolactin.

[00:11:50] So you're kind of, you know, a hundred milligrams test is going to feel like, you know, who knows, 150 200 whatever raises to basically.

[00:11:59] Carl Lanore: [00:11:59] So this [00:12:00] idea that I, that I'm using right now, 500 milligrams of tests at a hundred milligrams of a DECA in combination. Uh, I won't, I may see the benefits in my joints from the DECA, but I'm not going to see the, uh, success in avoiding, say, male pattern baldness driven by DHT or a wreck.

[00:12:23] I may still end up with erectile issues because I'm using testosterone with DECA,

[00:12:28] Taeian Clark: [00:12:28] possibly. So it's, you know, there's no exact literature on this part. So. The decade is going to increase your sensitivity to a prolactin, which you know, 500 milligrams to Sasha on your plaque. You might be decently up there.

[00:12:41] I'm not sure how well controlled your estrogen is. So prolactin, uh, increases tentatively to, um, uh, androgens. So you know, your scalp, hair tissue. DEC is going to increase the sensitivity to androgen. So it's going to be like you're running more than 500 milligrams of androgen with the DECA in there, so it may hurt your hair.

[00:13:00] [00:12:59] However, we have, um, it has progesterone like effects, which actually, um,

[00:13:05] Carl Lanore: [00:13:05] inhibits hair loss. It inhibits it actually, uh, a five alpha reductase biogenesis.

[00:13:12] Taeian Clark: [00:13:12] Correct. So, you know, there's no, uh, concise data on this to show, is that benefit enough to block also the increase of androgen insensitivity? There's, there's no data to say you are, you know, up here more with the inhibiting effects or you're more sensitive as no data to see for sure on

[00:13:28] Carl Lanore: [00:13:28] that.

[00:13:28] But, but for gains, it sounds like if you don't care about your hair. And you don't care about erections. It sounds like using deco with testosterone because it, it has a greater sensitization of the Andrew receptor would probably get you get greater gains and that's why a test DECA cycle was always so successful.

[00:13:49] Taeian Clark: [00:13:49] Uh, S she was, that's cracked tune. You know, that's always been the bread and butter for like the past 30 years or so. Um, my way to go about it, when people don't care about, say, Hendron size, I'd rather run [00:14:00] the deck, adds a base, and then run a high dose of, um, another androgen. So you're avoiding that. The mass Alba, you know, the estrogen, the estrogenic side effects from running, you know, 500 milligrams test and having to use an AI.

[00:14:12] You know, and many guys don't get blood work. They should be crushing their AI. So, you know, your heart health goes to crop your bone house. So I like to avoid AIS at all. Uh, you know,

[00:14:21] Carl Lanore: [00:14:21] yeah. I don't, I don't like AI. And luckily I am not a high aromatase or cause even when, when I was on two grams of test a week, um, I think I said this last time we were, we were talking.

[00:14:33] But I think my, my extra dial was like 45 or 56 I remember her number 56 and I think that's a Pico grabs, a deck, a leader. I forget how estrogen is measured. So I clearly, I don't produce a lot of estrogen, but I, of course, I'm dark-skinned. I produce a lot of DHT and you know, since I've used performance enhancing drugs, my hair has changed.

[00:14:56] So you talk about using DECA [00:15:00] only to actually reverse the hair loss that some guys have experienced zooming the follicle is still revivable that using DECA alone can actually help guys get their hair back.

[00:15:14] Taeian Clark: [00:15:14] Yeah. Um, that's, I think probably one of the biggest, um, reasons like people who've read my article and started, you know, asking questions about Adecco on these, probably mainly due to the hair loss first and then second, uh, actually  I should in issues, I'm using a test base, um, tip there.

[00:15:29] There's a few guys in my following that. You know what, their hair just started reversing from switching to DEC alone without having, you know, using any topical AIDS or external AIDS that help hair growth. The few of them just switched the deck in there. You know, their hair started going back on their, uh, on their own.

[00:15:43] So that definitely is a big reason.

[00:15:46] Carl Lanore: [00:15:46] So if I wanted to switch, you know, I've been on testosterone, HRT prescribed testosterone since 2007. Uh, and I abused his option no longer. [00:16:00] Uh, without a prescription before that, um, if I wanted to go, okay, I'm going to give this a try, how do I transition from test to DECA?

[00:16:13] Do I just say, okay, I'm going to stop injecting my test, Sasha, I'm going to do a 500 milligrams of DECA a week, and they'll obviously, there's a period of time where testosterone is still available from those multiple depots in muscles, or do I titrate it? How do I approach that? Uh,

[00:16:30] Taeian Clark: [00:16:30] so, uh, depends on the person.

[00:16:33] Um, mainly I base it off your estrogen sensitivity and, or if a person is using an AI or whatnot. So let's say somebody is really sensitive to estrogen and you know, their TRT or whatever it goes to test offers, giving them cute sides. I usually tell them, come off about two weeks, you know, let that estrogen, cause you don't, you stop testosterone and your testosterone is going to plumb it.

[00:16:53] Unless like, you know, we were talking about depots. Um, so usually I, for average, I'd say one to two weeks more towards two [00:17:00] weeks. You don't let that estrogen, prolactin settle in menu a switch right to the, that, to the DECA. And normally I find nobody has issues with that. I mean, you know, you're actually doing, could be very sky high and still sky high because you know, testosterone is still flowing into your system.

[00:17:14] Um, sure. It depends on the individual. Usually two weeks is that you, how about the testosterone? Fully let the test and the estrogen lower and the by two weeks. Normally you'll do a pretty good insight free with the decking,

[00:17:25] Carl Lanore: [00:17:25] but that two week period. So if I decide my next shot is Saturday morning, right you, so Saturday morning, if I just go 500 milligrams of, of, of DECA de Roblin, um, I'm probably going to have a couple of weeks where I, I do have problems.

[00:17:39] Of course we, as we said, these deppos uh, uh, bleeding still into my blood stream. Um, or is it wiser to wait a week or two after my last shot and then introduce the deco?

[00:17:54] Taeian Clark: [00:17:54] Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's around like, and around two weeks is usually the best time because [00:18:00] by then the testosterone and the estrogen and everybody, it might not be fully clear, but it's going to be, you know,

[00:18:05] Carl Lanore: [00:18:05] going to be one of the, one of the studies that I read, uh, when I first started doing the show was sent to me by Anthony Roberts showed the.

[00:18:13] Actual pharmical kinetics of a single, a depo of a testosterone cypionate and a lot of physicians don't know this. A lot of physicians will bribe a hundred milligrams of testosterone every two weeks because they go, Oh, well, 10 milligrams is all a man produces. So if I, that's 10 days worth. But what people don't realize is that because of the mechanical dynamics of that bubble of oil.

[00:18:39] Which I'm going to have you explain something fascinating that I didn't know about here in a moment. Uh, but also, and the, the ND Esther that you're using, Oh, stipulate an annotative almost exactly the same, and if they'd been just slightly lower in release a speed, um, the [00:19:00] first three days, almost 50% of the testosterone in that Depot is used up.

[00:19:07] And then over the course of the. Uh, next 25 days. The balance of it trickles in. So if you take 250 milligram and you go, okay, 125 has gone by, is in you by fourth day, then you divide 125 by 25 days. All of a sudden you realize you're not getting 10 milligrams a day anymore. And so with that, with that being the case.

[00:19:31] It seems to me that if someone really wants to do this the right way with minimizing the potential for any transitional, uh, unwanted effects, that they should wait at least two weeks before from their last shot before they introduced that first shot of DECA. Would you agree with that?

[00:19:52] Taeian Clark: [00:19:52] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:19:54] Just like, uh, just like I was saying before that, you know, it's not going to fully be out, but it's going to be at a low enough [00:20:00] dose I shouldn't get again. But like I said, some people get util that I'm one of them. 100 milligrams of sauce would get me a horrible sides, you know, gynecomastia, oily skin. So I'm one of those guys who, even a load of those tests, you know, it really hits me, but two weeks, you know, no matter the dose, January, you're, you know, you're pretty low on there that you're not going to get cited.

[00:20:19] But yeah, two weeks is a good timeframe. I see. For most everyone.

[00:20:23] Carl Lanore: [00:20:23] Yeah, I may, I may give this a try because I'm, I think Jared said that he learned about this from, and by the way, Jared Boynton was supposed to be on the show, but he had a work emergency, so that's why his name is still up on the, uh, the, the board.

[00:20:37] But  Jared said that his hair got noticeably thicker within weeks and months when he stopped using testosterone and only use exclusively DECA. Roblin right.

[00:20:53] Taeian Clark: [00:20:53] Yeah. And like I said, that's happened to a few people, um, in my following day, just to switch alone has, you know, it [00:21:00] caused massive thickening and Rico regrowth.

[00:21:03] Um, another thing that, uh, you mentioned already, but as long as the follicles still alive, there was actually studied that point slides out of the follicle never dies. I'm not sure if he seen it. Um, there was a almost 70 year old man, I think it was, who was on us were a lactone or, um, I forget what blood pressure or his lip or something.

[00:21:19] Um. Anyways, she had been volunteering, uh, his early twenties, and he started having his hairline growing follicles that had been supposedly, you know, dead for upwards 40 years. And they started growing in a, and then it gave rise to the theory that the follicle actually never dies. So that's another,

[00:21:36] Carl Lanore: [00:21:36] you know, I've always, I've always believed that too.

[00:21:38] I gotta be honest with you because somebody who undergoes chemotherapy loses their hair because the follicle is assassinated. But they hair, the hair grows back. And that's why I've always believed that. The problem with the, my follicles, for instance, is the a, there's a, there's actually two DHT receptors on every hair follicle.

[00:21:58] One more than any other [00:22:00] tissue on your body. And as a result of that, DHG, uh, not only puts the follicle to sleep, but there seems to be a reduction in blood flow to the scalp. Uh, in, in a high DHT environment. Have you seen that as well? Uh,

[00:22:18] Taeian Clark: [00:22:18] so yeah, I have a big hair loss article on that. Um, usually, you know, it's, uh, the blood, lack of oxygen that comes first.

[00:22:26] Um, I study show, um, in a hypoxy state, um, hypoxia, uh, the low oxygen actually causes five AR to rise leading to more GHD in actually causes, um, aromatase to lower. So what they found when the oxygen was lowering circulating tissues. Example, the skull, the five behind the DHC increase in a row with highs lower.

[00:22:47] So it's, um, it's an odd, it's off, you know, the kind of let's find the oxygen first, which hits and you're not causing the cascade of the hormonal events.

[00:22:57] Carl Lanore: [00:22:57] Interesting. Very, very interesting. Um, I want to [00:23:00] take our first commercial break when we come back, I want to talk about prolactin for a second because prolactin is very interesting.

[00:23:08] Those of us who used a drug like trend Valone know that they can cause hyperprolactinemia. And the interesting thing is that both trend bologne, uh, and uh, and DECA are actually progestins. Correct.

[00:23:24] Taeian Clark: [00:23:24] Yup. Okay.

[00:23:26] Carl Lanore: [00:23:26] So let's do this. Let's take a quick commercial break. When we come back. We're going to talk more about this with talking with Tane Clark today about the possibility of nandrolone only protocols, and this is for HRT too.

[00:23:38] The problem with this is that doctors won't prescribe DECA because they're afraid that the DEA will come in and say, Oh, you're, you're a steroid mill for bodybuilders. I actually have a physician friend who's going through this right now. Stay tuned. We'll be right back with more. Superhuman radio. You are listening to this [00:24:00] superhuman channel.

[00:24:00] We're ripped and we're ready.

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[00:26:14] What do you got to lose except maybe a sucky night asleep. We're talking with Tane Clark right now. We're talking about DECA durable and only. DECA durable and only, uh, for the use of HRT. And this is really very interesting to me. There's a lot of doctors that, uh, probably can't do this or won't do it for fear that they will be, uh, ostracized or even, uh, investigated.

[00:26:43] Uh, when will the stigma come off of, uh, of deck? I mean, it was created to treat women with breast cancer. It's not like some, you know, rogue drug.

[00:26:55] When do you, can you hear me okay?

[00:26:58] Taeian Clark: [00:26:58] You cut out for a second there.

[00:27:00] [00:27:00] Carl Lanore: [00:27:00] When, when do you think doctors will be allowed to prescribe DECA without being ostracized? Well, I think

[00:27:09] Taeian Clark: [00:27:09] the, mainly the medical community sees no issue with testosterone. I mean. You know, testosterone work. So they're kind of just, you know, to then there's no issue with it.

[00:27:20] But, you know, there's the side effects where even TRT, we have, um, you know, I think it's 24 some odd percent gay, kind of Kamasi off TRT. Um, I forget some of the other sites, uh, statistics, but you know, to them that that's minor, they don't see any real complications with it. So there's no reason to look, you know, into, Oh, should we be using DECA for sure.

[00:27:40] The guys who are hating the Harris part or this or that, they just see no issue with this. I don't ever see, you know, any doctors even caring about switching over.

[00:27:50] Carl Lanore: [00:27:50] Here's an interesting question from Solomon. Solomon says, what about the guys on DECA that is still bald? The question is, are they on only DECA cause most [00:28:00] people are not on only DECA today, right.

[00:28:03] Taeian Clark: [00:28:03] Yeah. That too. Like, you know, my, my following, you know, have a decent following where most of them all run deck bays, few of them run deck, a solo, but most of them are decade base, sorta be decade trend, deck mass, like a Primo Deka, D ball. Um, but besides that, you know, it's not a guarantee that you switched to a lesser androgenic state, that you're going to regrow your hair.

[00:28:25] It's, you know, that. Your hair is going to be in a better state where you can, um, start to regrow your hair. But as, as with hair loss, you know, it's very, it's very difficult. It's not just going to start growing on its own for the most part. You know, many of my guys are a hair loss suffers, and yet these immense topicals and stuff like that to regrow their hair.

[00:28:45] So it's not a guarantee that you're going to regrow full head of hair. But you know, the guy that's like fully bald, he may be, have, you know, 5% more Harrison's. He put testosterone use DECA. Using it as kind of a preventative and a slight aid in [00:29:00] the lucky few may, you know, regrow fully. But that's more of a, you know, exception to the rule, I would say.

[00:29:05] Carl Lanore: [00:29:05] Well, and then there's another comment here that I want to bring up because this is also, uh, very, very true. Let me see where it was, but it was w w there, there are a Natty guys who is still bald, right? There's guys who don't use any, uh, exogenous hormones at all, and their ball too. But, but. That's obviously something else that's going on, or it could be their own personal hormone below.

[00:29:30] Right. Yeah.

[00:29:31] Taeian Clark: [00:29:31] I, I hate when people try and you use that example because, um, you know, the steroids don't necessarily cause baldness. It's, you know, they increase, they increase hair loss. So, you know, however, you know, one person may never experienced much hair loss their whole life. But they're prone to, they get very little.

[00:29:48] They go and start using a thousand milligrams Taz, five 40 milligrams tread, something that they could have kept most of their head their whole life. That's those steroids are going to immensely increase the, their hair loss. So you know, it's not necessarily causing [00:30:00] it on its own. Uh, but like we discussed earlier with, um, the, the oxygen state, the blood flow, you know, so many factors, you know, a bad diet, lack of exercise, all that will impair your circulation, which then impairs the oxygen flow to your scalp.

[00:30:14] So, you know, the guy's going, you know, ball naturally that, you know, it could be the lack of X. I could be a diet, or, you know, just their whole vascular system could be crowd, whether smoking, diet, you know, like we were saying. So, you know. You can't really kind of, if they had used steroids and have even worse baldness, basically.

[00:30:31] Carl Lanore: [00:30:31] Uh, how about this? Can you be on DECA for a whole year if you're just using DECA? Only it could you run it for the rest of your life, like, like doctors are suggesting people do with testosterone.

[00:30:44] Taeian Clark: [00:30:44] So I, I don't like TRT when it's not, when it's not needed, but you know, many guys today, they want to just play since I was on TRT, when they don't need it, you know, they're scared of, uh, coming off cycle.

[00:30:55] Um. You can, and it has been. So, you know, this isn't my opinion. This [00:31:00] is, uh, you know, the medical community's opinion. They have used DECA in place of testosterone as a hormone replacement therapy for HIV AIDS for, for decades. Um, I don't think it's to use anymore as, I don't think steroids are really used for HIV H much anymore unless the patient really asks for it.

[00:31:17] Um, but yeah, so they did a test of directly tests or a stat gut and better quality of life, better muscle mass. You know. Just less sides in general was with the deck. Patients stayed on deck, a primary agent for you know, decades.

[00:31:33] Carl Lanore: [00:31:33] So, um, Tayvon Shuman says, I understand that this may be a good cycle for some, but if TRT dose of test is determined via blood tests and Primo Bolin cycled, would you not think that would yield the same or better results.

[00:31:53] Taeian Clark: [00:31:53] Um, I didn't get the first part about the tier two. You, what was he

[00:31:56] Carl Lanore: [00:31:56] saying? He said he, well, he's basically saying is that, you know, for [00:32:00] tr, for testosterone replacement therapy, uh, testosterone doses based on blood tests. And if you, if you cycle, I'm thinking this is what he's saying. It's kind of awkward worded, but if you're, if you're cycling a Primo and would you not think that would yield the same or better results.

[00:32:21] I guess it depends on what results he's talking about. Is he talking about muscle gains?

[00:32:27] Taeian Clark: [00:32:27] Primo in place of DECA? I guess

[00:32:30] Carl Lanore: [00:32:30] he must be. Yeah. That's what he's suggesting.

[00:32:33] Taeian Clark: [00:32:33] If he's suggesting Primo in place of DECA or testosterone as a TRT Primo solo. Um, uh, in my article, I mentioned this too, that I, I w I only suggest the items that can convert to estrogen as a TRT base.

[00:32:47] So, you know, Alvin  like a Primo or the DC derivatives, they don't convert to estrogen. You need, you know, estrogen for your digestive health. Uh, your, uh, your, your bone health, your heart health deal. You cannot use [00:33:00] anything that doesn't, or you can't do, you do whatever you want. But I never suggest using anything that came that doesn't convert your estrogen as a TRT.

[00:33:06] And that's, you know, the same reason they would, uh, looked at DECA for a hormone replacement therapy and HIV AIDS because it does create some estrogen. You need some estrogen.

[00:33:17] Carl Lanore: [00:33:17] And by the way, those of you who are posting questions, if you post a question that's a page long, I'm not going to put it up. I can't put it up because it's just way too much for me to read, uh, and, and work in.

[00:33:26] So if you could kind of keep your head. Your, your, your questions a little shorter. That'd be great. Uh, I gotta I gotta put this one up cause it's kinda funny. Hold on. There it is. I gotta put this one up. Hold on. Um, well, it, this one is very interesting because Jeffrey Epstein also didn't use, uh. Didn't use DECA, and I agree with you.

[00:33:50] He didn't kill himself either. I agree. So this one here is interesting. What would the dose be for someone who wants to use DECA strictly as a HRT? And I have another [00:34:00] question from Robert. I'll get to it in a minute. Robert.

[00:34:03] Taeian Clark: [00:34:03] Um, so the studies ugly, they only ever used 200 milligrams,

[00:34:09] Carl Lanore: [00:34:09] and interestingly enough, it's dosed and 200 milligrams a milliliter.

[00:34:13] It's never ever higher than that.

[00:34:15] Taeian Clark: [00:34:15] Right. Yeah. We got from pharmaceutical,

[00:34:19] Carl Lanore: [00:34:19] I mean, from, yeah, not, not from a U of G, not from a UGA.

[00:34:24] Taeian Clark: [00:34:24] Um, the studies used 200 milligrams. The issue is a DECA does create a lot less estrogen and testosterone. So it's kind of finding what dose, you know, your lab work shows where and where you feel optimal with your estrogen ranges.

[00:34:40] So a lot of people have an issue. I feel like this is due to guys who've abused test hospital for a long time. You know, they've used an AI for so long. I feel like they always kind of stay in a natural state of a lesser estrogen. You know, it's almost like a, the AIS had like kind of permanently lowered their, um, aromatase enzyme, [00:35:00] uh, enzymes.

[00:35:01] Um,

[00:35:02] Carl Lanore: [00:35:02] maybe, maybe the body adapt and slows down the biogenesis cause they're tired of fighting

[00:35:06] Taeian Clark: [00:35:06] uphill. Yeah. It seems like a, that's possibly goes on, cause a lot of guys that switch from years of testosterone to AI, um, you know, that could creating around 20% and estrogen ish, that's a little bit on variable.

[00:35:18] Debatable. Um, they'd go on deck and they're creating weight to, um, , uh, estrogen. So those guys need to up their dose for. That's something else. And that gives them a little bit more estrogen. However, you don't, a normal, healthy person will take the treatment milligrams and you know, do well, feel fine, feel great.

[00:35:36] Um, so whatever dose you need, um, to create enough estrogen or, you know, sticking to the 200 and adding something that has a little more hashing, whether it's like, you know, 2030 minute guards test or. You know, some people directly will take a little bit of estrogen with it to boost themselves up.

[00:35:53] Carl Lanore: [00:35:53] And I want to talk, I'm going to talk about that with another question that we have that after the, after this next question.

[00:36:00] [00:35:59] Taeian Clark: [00:35:59] So my personal opinion would be around 200 milligrams and figuring out if you need more estrogen and then, uh, you will, uh, having a way to get in more estrogen versus just keep increasing that the DECA dose for TRT.

[00:36:12] Carl Lanore: [00:36:12] So Gerardo part of a para para, I'm sorry, Gerardo, for butchering your name. Okay. What's a good dosage of DECA for HRT?

[00:36:20] For females, I would imagine a hundred milligrams a week. Half of what you're giving a guy, because that's not, let's not forget DECA, is, is actually the undead Cohen, Nate Ester, which has months. It delivers over the course of months as compared to 25, 28 days, like  and annotate, it stays around for a long, long time.

[00:36:44] Right.

[00:36:45] Taeian Clark: [00:36:45] Uh, well, I think you got, uh, the drugs makes up there. God, uh, Mmm. Yeah. Andrew, definitely, it's not the under technique. It's a technique. Um, um, what's the half halfways [00:37:00] um. I'm trying to remember the

[00:37:04] Carl Lanore: [00:37:04] Boucher. You're saying it's shorter than the , right?

[00:37:08] Taeian Clark: [00:37:08] Yeah. Yeah. I'm trying to, I think it was, I think it's six things for the deck.

[00:37:12] The deck unit, Easter. I know there's like, there's, you know, the half life chart that's been going around for you are showing, you know, a testy is six or seven days, but, um, there's, there's a good, a farmer kinetic study that shows a decade. It was actually only six days.

[00:37:26] Carl Lanore: [00:37:26] So, wow, that's impressive. And you know, I, and I've always used NPP because I'm afraid of DECA now because of what happened to me back in the day.

[00:37:35] And I figured, well, if things don't go right, a couple of days later, it'll be gone. So there's probably no reason to use NPP. I can just use the Dakota. Nate, you're right. It's not an Diakonia. The under cominate is the one that lasts months.

[00:37:49] Taeian Clark: [00:37:49] Once he gets them 21 days along the house lace. Right, right.

[00:37:54] Carl Lanore: [00:37:54] So, so here's an interesting question.

[00:37:56] Uh, and, and we have to talk about estrogen when we talk about [00:38:00] this. Uh, Jonathan says, is high dose DECA, betta and muscle building, then a standard dose of trend, 1.6 grams of DECA versus 300 milligrams of trend. What's your opinion.

[00:38:15] Taeian Clark: [00:38:15] Um, so obviously there's no studies that are ever going to compare that. So just based off my, um, opinion, I say the DECA is going to beat it.

[00:38:24] Um, the only studies we really have to look at, you know, Trevor stack in that regards is the rat studies where, um, you know, they'll show up, Oh, this, you know. Was so much more anabolic. They need a testosterone, right? You know, the ratings of a hundred, you know, anabolic androgenic rating. But as we know, those don't translate into humans or even other animals.

[00:38:44] Um, cause studies on monkey show completely different androgenic and anabolic effects with these steroids. So there's no exact way we can say what's for sure. So we had to literally just go by rule. Our real world results. And I would take the deco would be [00:39:00] a small dose of trend.

[00:39:02] Carl Lanore: [00:39:02] All right, and so here's, here's my two cc's on this topic.

[00:39:07] We have to look to cattle ranchers. Those who raise beef cattle have been using trend Balone acetate forever. In fact, old guys like me, we used to buy feena pellets and break them down and make our own trend at home. People used to ask me, why? What's those little bottles in your oven? Anyway, so. But guess what?

[00:39:33] A cow will put on five times more muscle when they add extra dial benzoates to the trend. Valone so to come back to your whole estrogen is also anabolic. And here's how trend actually has been shown to cause new satellite cells to grow. That a lot of other anabolics don't do. So that's why people say, Oh, trend gives you that [00:40:00] hard, grainy, dense look.

[00:40:01] Yeah, it does because it makes new muscle fibers, but it doesn't, it's dry muscle because there's no astrogen conversion. And if you're using other drugs along with it, it could actually even blunt, uh, some other androgens for, uh, an estrogen from being produced. But if you, if you add estrogen to a trend.

[00:40:24] Cycle. It could actually be the greatest bulking drug in the world, but everybody in the bodybuilding community is so free, afraid of estrogen. They're like, Oh no, I'm going to take AI's. No, estrogen is actually anabolic. Those studies were done in humans where men were given testosterone and. Uh, an AI or testosterone alone, they monitored their extra dial ratios.

[00:40:50] The men with the higher extra dial saw both Lipel, uh, uh,

[00:40:58] body tissue [00:41:00] growth. Then the guys that will give an AI, so we already know it. If you don't have to take an extra die, uh, an AI don't. And if you could take. If you could actually do what the cattle farmers did and add just a little bit of extra dial to your trend, I predict you will blow up like a gorilla, but no one will do it because to everybody's afraid of of estrogen in the bodybuilding community.

[00:41:26] All right, so let's see. We have a couple more questions here. Uh, Jason blacks is. How do you calm combat? And this was a question I was going to present, uh, the increase in prolactin from DECA. What would the, there was some over the counter things we used to take. Um, I can't think of the names now. What, what do you use to combat prolactin?

[00:41:46] Taeian Clark: [00:41:46] I'm assuming he's asking. The studies. There was one on TRT, doses of tests worse take a hundred milligrams DECA, and then there was another one, I think, where it was like four, 600 milligrams of each different one. [00:42:00] And again, the deco load, the prolactin, like I've some guys that'll run late. Two thousand three thousand, I think one guy ran a red 5,000 milligrams DECA a week.

[00:42:09] At one point in every single one of these people have low, low prolactin. So you know, the studies and real world results back up. It's not going to raise your proactive, um, unless you're talking about you using it with testosterone. Then, um, you know, uh, vitamin E I think short to lower by upwards 40%, uh, prolactin and you know, uh, B six, uh, promo protein.

[00:42:31] Carl Lanore: [00:42:31] That's what I couldn't think of. Bromocriptine. That's what we used to use. That's what we used to use when we used to trend. Also trend because it raises prolactin and prolactin can give you guy know, not just not just estrogen.

[00:42:46] Taeian Clark: [00:42:46] Yeah. Um, let me see. I don't like the prolactin inhibiting drug. Sorry. Um, even though it was higher doses by, I really like to point all heart effecting drugs is possible.

[00:42:58] Um, all of them, [00:43:00] but one of the prolactin drugs. Drugs, Charlotte, um, at three months and increase a failure of, um, her heart valve increased rest apart.

[00:43:09] Carl Lanore: [00:43:09] Yes. Hyper hyperprolactinemia is a serious disorder that is accompanied by changes in heart function, changes in neurological function to sometimes the earliest signs are erectile dysfunction, but tremor, when your prolactin levels are too high, you'll actually suffer from something called subjective tremor.

[00:43:29] No one can fit. You'll go, my hands are shaking, the doctoral grab and go. I don't feel anything. But internally, you feel like you're vibrating and that is called subjective tremor. Hyperprolactinemia is associated with that. It's misdiagnosis. Parkinson's disease sometimes.

[00:43:47] Taeian Clark: [00:43:47] So

[00:43:51] if you don't, it does specifically with testosterone, not with, um, with that guy. That's what he's asking.

[00:44:00] [00:43:59] Carl Lanore: [00:43:59] Yeah. Kirk Diego has a great question. It's a long one, so I'm going to have to read it slowly. I want you to get it all. Um, but here's what it says. Progestins increased serum copper, high levels of serum copper, or hypothesize to increase the rate of oxidation to high density lipoprotein, and we know that that's not good.

[00:44:20] Being that HDLs functionality. Is to act as an antiinflammatory. By the way, HDLs functionality is now being identified as whether or not your HGL is good for you or bad for you. There's a whole new study that just came out. Elisa was reading it to me the other day. Um, a antiinflammatory, antioxidant capacity and reverse cholesterol transport.

[00:44:42] There's some suggestive literature given that nandrolone purportedly increases intracellular calcium. That's the CA two channel, which is purportedly wreaks havoc on

[00:44:55] Taeian Clark: [00:44:55] endothelial cells.

[00:44:57] Carl Lanore: [00:44:57] You know anything about this.

[00:44:58] Taeian Clark: [00:44:58] Ah, yah. [00:45:00] Like everything. So no, he, he's blaming progesterone there, but I shouldn't even worse I suggest, increases your certain copper levels as you, as you do.

[00:45:11] Decreases the rate at which you excrete copper. Like everything he suggesting there is what you get from using every other form of steroids. Well, every single steroid has been shown to increase, um, increased calcium uptake and intracellular calcium levels. That's why you can testosterone at higher doses linked to, uh, you know, brain cell destruction, you know, uh, nerve damage to tell them.

[00:45:32] Every single steroid increases CME to at high in calcium uptake. So you're eating like a bodybuilder, you eating a calcium rich diet weight, all that. You're getting more calcium uptake, could be your test diets, and then it's also increasing your intracellular calcium concentrations too. So that's not an effective for progesterone or DECA.

[00:45:48] That said, it affects every single steroid that's been studied, period.

[00:45:53] Carl Lanore: [00:45:53] Uh, Abe has a question and this is something you did talk about. There is evidence that small [00:46:00] amounts of DECA do aroma ties into extra dial, correct?

[00:46:05] Taeian Clark: [00:46:05] Yup. A four  concentration, you know, uh, for YouTube specifically, it was a, it's around 20% for, um, uh, of that, of testosterone.

[00:46:17] You know, a hundred milligrams of the deco would create around 20% of the, of each who pacifically compared to a testosterone.

[00:46:25] Carl Lanore: [00:46:25] I guess he's also asking, would the androgen receptor be the same? Is it the same androgen receptor? I guess he's asking. Sure. All androgens, D doc, any AR, whether they are a 19 nor a, whether they are testosterone, whether a D H T, right?

[00:46:40] Yeah.

[00:46:42] Taeian Clark: [00:46:42] Why it's such a great bodybuilding drug, because. Pacific. This is in rat studies, but you know, we see the results. I'm humans as well. Um, it binded to the muscle cell, a little stronger than testosterone. Nothing to write home about it though. But the main benefit of it was it bind it to our secondary, [00:47:00] you know, our secondary characteristics.

[00:47:02] For a male, like, um, you know, body is stout, you know, your hair loss or androgenic side, your, you know, your prostate tissue and stuff. Only 30, 37% of testosterone. So, you know, you're, you're running 300 milligrams of a DECA. It's like you're running a bit higher TRT dose of testosterone in those, you know, for your prostate.

[00:47:23] You knew your scalp, your scalp, and your hair health and whatnot. So that's what make DEC, uh, what makes DECA so good is that you can run a higher dose and it's like you're running. A much lower dose of testosterone, androgenic, Lysol versus you running a thousand milligrams testing, you know, 10 times 10 the androgenic sizes are natural hormone production duckets allowing you to run a thousand milligrams and you know, it's like you're on a couple of hundred milligrams of tassel.

[00:47:46] That's where the main benefit comes in.

[00:47:48] Carl Lanore: [00:47:48] So it sounds to me like what you're suggesting here is maybe not abandoning testosterone, but flipping the script where it used to be testosterone was the base of your hormone replacement [00:48:00] therapy. And then you would add in. Some DECA what you're saying is make DECA the base of your HRT and add a little testosterone.

[00:48:07] And so you do get some of the aroma  and some of the benefits of having testosterone.

[00:48:12] Taeian Clark: [00:48:12] Oh, it depends on if people ask me this all the time. If you're talking about a cycle, you know, you can go either way, you can run just,

[00:48:19] Carl Lanore: [00:48:19] I don't know. But what about HRT? Cause I'm, I'm a

[00:48:24] Taeian Clark: [00:48:24] hog specifically, um, that I always answer that in my personal opinion.

[00:48:29] What I would probably do. Um, so

[00:48:32] Carl Lanore: [00:48:32] cause you're gonna be old some weeks. So you got to start thinking about this.

[00:48:37] Taeian Clark: [00:48:37] My personal opinion is kind of what I answered earlier. I would continue to get my bloodwork and find out where my estrogen is perfect. And I would possibly run something like 30 milligrams a test in 70 milligrams of DECA because I know I get androgenic side effects on muscle.

[00:48:52] Very pro too. I should join the side effects at even a hundred milligrams of a test. So, you know, I would probably. [00:49:00] My estimate for me, myself again, would probably be somewhere around 30 milligrams of the testosterone and the rest filled up with DECA. Um, you know, that way I'm getting a low enough estrogen for why I feel I would likely need, just based off, you know, my own youth use in the past and I wouldn't have any of the androgenic side effects.

[00:49:17] I'd still have a very strong androgenic. Um. You know, Andrew, Jennica,

[00:49:24] Carl Lanore: [00:49:24] Tayvon Shuman says, if I'm not using test, why not just use NPP in the beginning to front load the cycle with DECA and then later on just use the DECA? What would be the reason not to use. And P P and DECA, I mean, isn't that redundant to use NPP on deck or are there different, uh, effects on a tissue and Andrew receptors between NPP and DECA?

[00:49:51] Cause we know that like, like for instance, a fast acting testosterone, uh, test probe produces a lot less as to dial than to slow his [00:50:00] acting, uh, esters. Right.

[00:50:03] Taeian Clark: [00:50:03] Um,  study with tests. Pro pronate versa in it. They also showed that the nitrogen retention was, I think, almost double or over doubled. And was that due to the estrogen?

[00:50:15] You know, it could be, uh, it might not have been a, we don't know. So. Uh, that's something that you consider that the lung cancers somehow magically might have, whether, again, whether CJ, uh, the estrogen or not might have the more anabolic property. Uh, we absolutely don't know that, but from real world results, we, uh, you know, I don't think there's that massive of a difference if you were to run a NPV solo psycho or a, or a deco solo, you know what, you know what I mean?

[00:50:44] It's just, it's at the end of the day. . You don't see people gaining immense amounts, more muscle from the longer ISA versus versus shorter Easter. Um, but to answer the question specifically, you can front load with NPP, but I study short within 24 hours, a high amount of [00:51:00] even DECA, even when it's a long Easter, it's way up there, literally within 24 hours.

[00:51:05] Like a majority of it's really, so there's no real need to front load.

[00:51:10] Carl Lanore: [00:51:10] Abe says, uh, his prolactin levels went down on nandrolone base. Uh, he has both before and after labs. So obviously what you're saying, uh, he, he can concur with I wanna I wanna take a quick commercial break and when we come back, I want to delve deeper into this topic.

[00:51:27] Uh, thank you very much for all the questions with getting key posting questions. We'll get them on. Uh, we're going to take one quick commercial break, stay tuned, and we shall return.

[00:51:41] Spit that out right now. This is the superhuman channel.

[00:51:50] welcome back to superhuman radio. We're talking with Tane Clark, but talking about nandrolone draconic I screwed up the name earlier, which [00:52:00] has a totally different outcome when the Ester changes. And, uh, let me just put something up real quick. I think we kinda covered this already. Um, uh, but Jonathan, uh, Venosa is asking a T R T plus, DECA, is it better or just detrimental?

[00:52:16] Why 70 milligrams of Teske plus 800 milligrams of DECA, I think 800 milligrams. The DECA may be a little excessive, don't you think? What is

[00:52:25] Taeian Clark: [00:52:25] it, 80 milligrams

[00:52:26] Carl Lanore: [00:52:26] or a hundred.

[00:52:30] So, and he's asking, and then, and then he follows up that question with general health wise and I think 8,800 milligrams of, of DECA for health and TRT is probably reckless

[00:52:45] Taeian Clark: [00:52:45] if he's actually asking them for tier T a obviously that's very reckless. Um, I think, I wonder if he was asking more if or T base plus the a hundred milligrams of DECA.

[00:52:55] I wonder if. It's, that was a good cycle or not.

[00:53:01] [00:53:00] Carl Lanore: [00:53:01] Uh, Joe Giorgio's, uh, I, I don't know if I'm going to pronounce your last name properly. Tavarez uh, who is a friend of a doctor, George  in Greece. He says, DECA and testosterone have entirely different metabolisms in the brain. Testosterone is crucial for brain chemistry.

[00:53:23] As this was clearly stated by PA. I'm assuming he's talking about Patrick Arnold and another friend, Lee, another friendly to this forum, but, but why is, why is testosterone, if you have an androgen receptor and it's being satisfied by an androgen because you're still gonna make DHE a and things like that, why is testosterone absolutely necessary for the brain?

[00:53:44] I'm asking sincerely.

[00:53:47] Taeian Clark: [00:53:47] It's absolutely not like we're discussing. You have androgen receptors and you know those hormones actually, you know, their only job they're doing is activating. It's like having a car. Your, your pee doesn't [00:54:00] do anything but start the car. Once I cheese in the car, you know, your key could be made at a silver or it could be made it a gold.

[00:54:06] It's like DECA and test no matter what. It's the cheese, the cheese turning on the car. It's the receptor that's being activated. Just need a different dose to activate different receptors adequately, like writing a hundred milligrams of DECA. For most isn't going to activate their a secondary, um, characteristics like the prostate and stuff.

[00:54:23] So, you know, with the homeless, he's activating, it seemed with the, you know, your brain and everything. Uh, all the receptors in your brain then, uh, from neurotransmitters and everything. Um, uh, I know, um, George, I don't know his last name either. You said he's a friend of his.

[00:54:37] Carl Lanore: [00:54:37] I'll George 

[00:54:39] Taeian Clark: [00:54:39] actually had an argument with some months because.

[00:54:42] A lot of things. He was coding was formed science and I started asking to back up what he was saying, and then he just blocked me about DECA specifically. Like one of the quotes, they say that DECA isn't good enough for tea or tea because it only makes a 20% of the estrogen as testosterone, and that's way too little estrogen.

[00:55:00] [00:55:00] And they kept asking for a quote on this study, and there's a few other studies I kept asking for the quota and he's just, you know, you reply to me for hours and then he would, I just ended up blocking. He say, I don't have time. To find the study, but he replied for hours. Anyways, like there's a few things, even at, um, the anabolics books that are really misquoted, like a deck actually does make more than 20% of estrogen.

[00:55:22] It just, that's how much each who it actually makes a Pacific estrogen. So, um, you know, like you said, you're asking what does a testosterone do that that could doesn't, that's a thing that a lot of people. This information, but they're not, they don't have anything to back and there's nothing. You got to stop doing something special that another androgen

[00:55:42] Carl Lanore: [00:55:42] isn't, you know, I want to mention something else real quick.

[00:55:46] Uh, those of you who live in the United States, and I don't know if they have these in Canada, so you have to tell me, but we have a company called any lab tests. Now, I don't wait for my doctor to pull labs on me. In fact. I'm actually [00:56:00] going to go today to any lab test now to look at my pro, my, uh, prolactin levels.

[00:56:05] Um, you can walk into any lab test now in the United States and order a complete, uh, sex hormone panel. You pay for it out of your own pocket, but if you have an HSA and you pay with that, with your credit, your credit card, your debit card, or your check from your HSA account, technically the insurance company's paying for them without having to submit.

[00:56:27] Um. But those of you who are, one of the greatest frustrations I have about all of us in this community is how many people just are willing to shoot blindly with their health. Oh, um, someone told me that this is the, this is DHE a does this. I'm going to start taking DHA. You don't even know if you need the HEA.

[00:56:47] And quite frankly, hide the HEA can actually screw up your insulin sensitivity and a variety of other things. So for those of you listening to this podcast today. Go to any lab test now, spend a [00:57:00] buck. I mean, you'll go out with your friends and drink $100 worth of booze one night. Go buy some lab work.

[00:57:05] Look at your lab work, start your protocol, go back in in a couple months and look at your lab work again. If you don't want to walk into your doctor and say, Hey, I'm experimenting with some, some, uh, anabolic steroids. You don't have to any lab tests that you do. You have a place like that in Canada.

[00:57:20] Taeian Clark: [00:57:20] Tane.

[00:57:22] No, Canada's really difficult to get any, um, lab work or suffer that like it was insanely hard on everybody. I know Canada that normally I just keep going to different doctors over and over again until they do what I want. But I know a lot of people in Canada, they all have to order them from the States, you know, as well.

[00:57:40] So.

[00:57:42] Carl Lanore: [00:57:42] I'm sorry, I didn't mean to step on you, Gerardo. I don't know where you are getting this information that that trend is hard on the kidneys. Probably trend made at UGS or the stuff I was brewing in my kitchen was probably hard on the kidneys. Uh, and if you're talking about a methyl, uh. [00:58:00] Alone, which was oral Tren.

[00:58:02] Yeah. That would, that destroyed your kidneys. Uh, but that's because it was an oral and it was methylated. Uh, I, I don't think trend is hard on the kidneys directly. Now what this trend do, that can actually. Screw up your kidneys. Two things can raise blood pressure literally within a day of the first shot.

[00:58:21] Number one, blood pressure and heart rate. When I did, when I use trend, my heart rate used to go from 60 beats a minute resting to 90. I would be sitting there and I'd be sweating. Uh, the other thing, uh, besides the hemodynamic changes that cause, uh, uh, overworking and pressure to the kidneys. The other thing that trend does better than any of the androgens.

[00:58:44] If you've never heard this before, then hear it now. The way androgens make you stronger is by attenuating and modulating the influx at E flux of of electrolyte [00:59:00] gradients. So trend bologne has the greatest effect on calcium channels. And, and that's why your heart rate goes up to 90 because the electrical system and your heart become so sensitive because the calcium channel activities is revved up that your heart starts beating faster and the stroke is harder.

[00:59:19] Another way that trend could potentially put greater work capacity on the kidneys. Are these changes in an electrolyte fluxes across gradients. But other than that, unless you're buying UGI trend trend is not necessarily a hard on the kidneys. So he said I had an impression trend. No, no, I don't miss Titone.

[00:59:40] Don't mistake my. I, some people think I'm, I'm angry when I talk. I'm not angry. But it's, it's, it's trend is not tough on the kidneys. Now what science is showing that I hope doesn't come true, cause I used a lot of trend back in the day, is that trend seems to predispose a person to [01:00:00] developing dementia later on in life.

[01:00:03] And, uh, and I forgot where I read that normally can run. It was a study, uh, that I read. So tread is harsh. There's no doubt about it. Uh, here, my good friend, uh, Merrick, Nicola, uh, he, uh, he and I, uh, American, I are running a race for who can injure themselves at the gym more frequently. Um, happy new year.

[01:00:22] America. Uh, he says, uh, really prolactin was lowered on nandrolone HRT versus testosterone. Interesting. I have. A macro macro at an OMA, uh, on HRT and I'm dosing, he's Capra glean, uh, what to caber like crazy to get my prolactin levels down. So Merrick would probably do well with the DECA only cycle if he's has problems with the prolactin.

[01:00:50] Taeian Clark: [01:00:50] Like I said, most guys, like I said, guys or one guy particularly, I ran five grades onto an average. Most guys who follow me are running. [01:01:00] 800 to 2000 milligrams DECA and every single one of them that post labs or their prolactin is using the single digits. Actually. Um, so again, I've been doing this for several years, you know, suggesting that, you know, you can run that could base DECA or you don't, DEC has a majority of your compound, even if you are still running TRT.

[01:01:20] And I've not seen a single person that had any remaining even. High normal range of prolactin. Every single person is in the lower range. And again, this is, this is not just, uh, you know, my anecdotal experience, it's it studies as well. So. You, you probably wouldn't do a lot better. He's having an issue with that.

[01:01:39] Carl Lanore: [01:01:39] And the reason hyperprolactinemia is misdiagnosed as Parkinson's disease, besides the subjective tremor is because it does lower dopamine levels and dopamine makes you feel good, make you feel like the outlook on life is great. In fact, part of the erectile dysfunction, uh, uh, [01:02:00] paradigm actually. Dopamine plays a big role on erection, quality, and spontaneity of the erection to occur.

[01:02:07] Um, so if you have hyperprolactinemia, then chances are that you have dopamine problems. You're not your brain, your brain isn't feeling dopamine as much as it used to. So it's just yet another reason to lower prolactin levels. And that Merrick, um, I don't know if you have any of these issues with just feeling like you're sad or you just don't feel excited about things anymore, but that definitely is a side effect of hyperprolactinemia a lack the anemia.

[01:02:35] Yeah. Um, I think we've covered all the questions. Do we have anything else we've missed to talk about?

[01:02:45] Taeian Clark: [01:02:45] Yeah.

[01:02:45] Carl Lanore: [01:02:45] Anything you can give us, any insights cause I'm going to give this a shot. I'm going to slowly lower my dose of testosterone and increase my dose of DECA over the next few weeks.

[01:02:55] Taeian Clark: [01:02:55] Um, so what you're, you're going to do as a TRT and on a cycle though, correct?

[01:02:59] Carl Lanore: [01:02:59] Yeah, [01:03:00] but my TRT is pretty high. I mean, like I said, I'm doing my  so you know how people blast and cruise. So my cruise is 500 milligrams and my blast is a thousand milligrams. So right now I'm just cruising at 500 milligrams a week of test.

[01:03:15] Taeian Clark: [01:03:15] Okay. Um, so a few things here. Um, one thing I guess I'll touch on here is, um.

[01:03:23] Look, you know, so we got that. Okay, we got the estrogen. Um, so we discussed, um, you need estrogen. So that's why when I suggest this, I always just see the D ball eat you or DECA. Uh, I choose DECA because it's overall the least side effects, you know. Um, so you know, deep with any girl you can use economic, lose your appetite with DebOps eat you seems to, is a very tricky drug.

[01:03:44] You know, some people get anxiety, half the people lose their libido because, uh, it's neurotransmitter effects. Um. E equals

[01:03:53] Carl Lanore: [01:03:53] E Q is bolded on, right? Yeah, it's strong stuff. It's very, very strong stuff. Very [01:04:00] strong. I don't know what happened to your microphone. Your mic just, I can't hear you very well. No, it's just weird.

[01:04:10] It's almost like you're talking through a tunnel. I want to, I want to try to get this last question up and then we'll probably, it's an omen. We need to end the show, but Robin. D  says, prolactin comes only in the presence of progesterone, which comes only in the presence of estrogen. I don't think that's accurate.

[01:04:28] Not, not the prolactin part, but progesterone, uh, is an upstream of estrogen, so it's produced first in the cascade of, of sex hormones.

[01:04:42] Taeian Clark: [01:04:42] Oh, prolactin, sorry. Progestin actually didn't give, it's collected new as well. I'm on top of it. Estrogen can be to increase prolactin taste. Um,

[01:04:59] they [01:05:00] stop on, you know, it's always the case. Either

[01:05:05] progesterone, estrogen saw it and saw attracted the, or,

[01:05:10] Carl Lanore: [01:05:10] you know, I, I don't know what happened to your audio. Would you do me a huge favor after the show? Would you go to the thread. And answer Robin  question directly. Uh, because it's weird. It's like all of a sudden it sounds like you're talking through a kazoo.

[01:05:25] It just, just thought it happening. So let's do this. Uh, no, it's still the same. You want to unplug that mic, Chris? See what happens, and I'll turn your volume up.

[01:05:39] No, it's weird. It's just, it's just like the, the quality of the audio. Just. Came apart. It maybe it may be the be live, uh, interface. I don't know. But we're gonna we're gonna end it right here. Anyway, this has been a really great discussion. It should open up some people's minds to thinking about, um, [01:06:00] uh, nandrolone I'm sorry.

[01:06:03] Uh, and perhaps, uh, changing up. For a while and I'm going to do it. I'm going to try it. Uh, but I'm going today to any lab tests and how to pull blood work before I do it. Cause I want to see what changes happen because that's what you're supposed to do. Not go to a forum and ask somebody, what should I do?

[01:06:20] You should know what's going on in your body before you add or subtract something. Uh, so, uh, Tane, how can people reach you? Uh,

[01:06:31] Taeian Clark: [01:06:31] I'm not sure if you're getting here.

[01:06:35] Carl Lanore: [01:06:35] Are you on Facebook? So it's T, a, E I a N Clark on Facebook, right.

[01:06:41] Taeian Clark: [01:06:41] And uh, uh, uh, Clark. And then my website is I n.com.

[01:06:48] Carl Lanore: [01:06:48] Okay. So check them out. We'll have them back on again. I'm sure. I'm sure there's going to be a lot of a backlash from this discussion today, and thank you for listening. Those of you who had [01:07:00] questions, thank you for your questions.

[01:07:01] And if you could just make sure you go to the thread. And just answer Robin a question directly. I'd be much appreciative and we will, and we'll see everybody tomorrow with more superhuman radio. Thank you for being here today.