[00:00:00] Carl Lanore: [00:00:00] welcome back to another episode of superhuman radio. Today is January 22nd for those of you listening to this show a hundred years from now and going, wow, this audience really was ahead of the curve. Uh, I have to say, our show sponsor a and title sponsor of Supima radio. Uh, is legendary foods. They make the impossible possible.

[00:00:22] And they just released something I have been hinting about for the past couple of weeks today. They just introduced their tasty pastry and it comes in strawberry, uh, or Brown sugar cinnamon. And it's basically a pop tart without all the crap. It's low carb around three grams of net carbs, nine grams of protein a, I don't even think it has a gram of sugar.

[00:00:46] Maybe it's got a gram of sugar in each one. These are pop tarts that they taste like the pop tarts you ate when you were a kid. It's called the tasty pastry, but the difference is it's not. It's actually good for you. [00:01:00] And that's what they do at legendary foods. And I want to go on the record. It's being the first person to say this because I've had them.

[00:01:05] They're amazing. And all I kept thinking of was taking two of the strawberry ones, the two strawberry tasty pastries, and smearing some of that delicious legendary foods. Apple nut butter, Apple pie. It's unbelievable. I eat it out of the jar and the jar has gone in like two days and slapping those two suckers together and making a tasty pastry sandwich.

[00:01:29] I can't wait and I'm telling you you're going to love it. Eat legendary.com is the place to go. Or they will be available on amazon.com as well. So there's that. Now let me bring my guest on. This is Tyler. LeBaron. Uh, he is the executive director and founder of the molecular hydrogen Institute. Welcome to the show, Tyler.

[00:01:53] Tyler W. LeBaron: [00:01:53] Thank you. Nice to be here.

[00:01:54] Carl Lanore: [00:01:54] Yeah. So, um, my good friend Joel green, who is actually a favorite on the show, [00:02:00] people love Joel on the show. Uh, had mentioned you to me a long time ago, but I kind of lost track of it. And this was right around the same time that we were looking at, um, carbon dioxide. And it's not a waste product, but actually an important gas that has a very important role in our physiology and biology.

[00:02:22] And he told me about you and he said, Oh, and by the way, I got to say something real quick to, uh, Tyler, he's not affiliated with any product out there that's Hawking your dollars to buy hydrogen enriched products. Okay? He has zero affiliation with the industry and we're going to find out why he's so interested in hydrogen in a minute.

[00:02:43] Joel started telling me about hydrogen a little bit, and it was on my radar, but it was not. But then I see all these hydrogen products coming out and I go, well, how do we find somebody who's not invested in the success of this product because of gains, financial gains, but actually is interested in [00:03:00] the science?

[00:03:00] And lo and behold, I think it's maybe you and a few other scientists out there that are actually promoting this. What, what tipped you off. That hydrogen was so important.

[00:03:13] Tyler W. LeBaron: [00:03:13] Yeah, that's a great question. So for, for me, I've always been interested in health and exercise wellness. I mean, from a very young age, middle school, I mean elementary school, even, always trying to push myself with these limits.

[00:03:26] And in when I was starting my, uh, studies at the university in 2009, I came across an article that was published in nature medicine showing that hydrogen gas had this therapeutic effect. And I was, that was very amazing, just, just to see that something so ubiquitous as molecular hydrogen. And I remember reviewing it with that one of the, about chemistry professors at the time.

[00:03:50] And, and he, he also goes like, wow, you know, this is really interesting. That could be something to this. And for whatever reason, when he said that, I just felt this, uh, this desire, if [00:04:00] you will, to really, you know, study to look into it. Um. And actually it's more interesting if you go back to the stream and more, because I initially even got to the idea of looking to hydrogen gas because I heard about a alkaline ionized water.

[00:04:17] I'm sure a lot of your audience have heard of all the stuff about, you know, structured water, my professional I all this stuff on and on and. Because I was always very interested in health and everything. I came across this and I was like, well, what is this all these crazy testimonials about curing this and prevention

[00:04:34] Carl Lanore: [00:04:34] and dancer?

[00:04:36] Tyler W. LeBaron: [00:04:36] Yeah. I mean, you couldn't come up with the list that is greater than the list of benefits that they would market. Um, and I, I was like, well, we should research. We should understand what this is. And as I started investigating that, and I quickly realized that. Yeah, the alkaline pH is not going to make any sense.

[00:04:56] You

[00:04:56] Carl Lanore: [00:04:56] know, I, if you're a critic, so I promote critical thinking on this [00:05:00] show. I say, don't listen to me. Do your own homework. But I've always applied critical thinking, you know what, what? What do you know to be true? And so when you think about the gut, the environment of the gut has a pH of one hydrochloric acid.

[00:05:14] Kind of like the stuff that's in your car battery. And you think that taking and drinking a drink or eating a drinking lemon water is somehow going to alkalize your entire body. You've gotta be, you've gotta be dumb because once it hits that environment, now it's wrestling. With pH of the gut and the pH of the gut is going to win because its job is to win and break things down.

[00:05:38] So the reality of, and I even had, I even asked this to a renal specialist, and he, and he laughed on the show. He's like, you know, very little. You can drop in your stomach that's going to change the pH of your body. And more importantly. Different tissue has different pH. The brain and the pancreas have a very, very similar, more acidic [00:06:00] pH than say the lungs or you know, some other part of your body.

[00:06:04] So whenever I saw those things, they just frustrated the hell out of me. And probably why you figured I gotta look at this cause this, this doesn't make sense.

[00:06:12] Tyler W. LeBaron: [00:06:12] Yeah. Well exactly. And I, I, but I felt there was maybe something to this, but which are absolutely right. And. Well, a good example, you know? Okay. The alkaline water would make any sense to alkalize the body, but then there's this comeback like, Oh, well see what happens is when you neutralize the stomach acid, then the stomach acid is going to then a secrete by carbonate into the blood, and that's good.

[00:06:34] That's why I had this alkalizing effect. And so even for the people who are thinking logically. They hear this from a scientific explanation of why it still works, and then they're dumbfounded. Oh, so now maybe it's gonna work, but, but the fact of the matter is, is like you said, it's not going to work. And in fact, when you do this stoichiometry, the comparison, you can neutralize a more acid with one teaspoon of baking soda than you could by drinking over 600 liters of alkaline water.

[00:06:59] That's right. [00:07:00] So it doesn't work. But, but um, at the time, cause remember I was just starting my, uh, my steady, the university and I, I didn't understand the science. I just. We'll try to be a logical thinker, but also a believer and a hope or a holster. That's what I'm going to coin a holster as somebody who hopes for things.

[00:07:20] Anyways, I, I, uh, started looking into all of this and I started visiting with a lot of my professors. Hey, you know, what about this alkaline water? And I even tried to throw the best step I could of them. I had read all this stuff about, uh, uh, Otto Warburg won the Nobel prize for proving that, uh, cancer cannot survive in an alkaline oxygen rich environment.

[00:07:40] And he was like, what? He pulled it up on the Nobel prize, Otto Warburg, and it goes through, and it shows exactly why he won the Nobel prize, which was because he found the cytochrome respiratory enzyme that allows them out of conscious to make ATP. Nothing about, you know, in these things. And in fact, when you really look at as research, his research [00:08:00] demonstrated that.

[00:08:01] Cancer can survive just well as the in an oxygen rich or an Austin poor environment. This, this, uh, Warburg effect, right? Increased dichotomy. Anaerobic

[00:08:12] Carl Lanore: [00:08:12] respiration. Yeah. It switched to the mitochondria switches over to anaerobic respiration. It doesn't even need oxygen. In fact, all it needs is glucose at that point.

[00:08:19] Exactly.

[00:08:20] Tyler W. LeBaron: [00:08:20] Yeah. Just his guy courses. And so all of this stuff I was putting out there, you know, he, they were just like, yeah, that, that's, that's not true. We looked at the data right there and it was so clear, so simple. And he's like, you're not gonna, you know, buy one of these things are, you're not gonna like, try to get one of these machines.

[00:08:35] I'm like, I already did. He's like,

[00:08:40] I was kind of dumbfounded. I was like, I don't, it's like, I still think there's something to this. And he's like, you know, it's probably just placebo buyer's remorse, you know? And I'm like, well, let's, let's, let's research it. And cause it's still had like this negative ORP OD this negative oxidation reduction potential.

[00:08:54] What does that mean? Surely this water has to be different. And, uh, as I, as I really [00:09:00] started getting into the literature and the, in this term, the electrolyzed reduced water. That's what I found. Well, this is just a simple, basic process of doing an electrolysis. It's a typical high school chemistry experiment where you take a battery, put it in the water, and you see hydrogen gas coming off the negative side and oxygen, not the positive side, cause that's all we're doing.

[00:09:18] And oxygen, hydrogen gas is known to be a reductive molecule. They reduce the molecule. So maybe that is responsible for negative RP. And throughout time I was able to confirm, yes, hydrogen gas is. Responsible completely for the negative RP. And as, as a research in hydrogen gas, that's when I came across that article in nature medicine showing that hydrogen gas has this therapeutic effect and nature medicine is one of the most prestigious or credible medical journals that there are.

[00:09:47] You rate medical journals in some way by a, um, their impact factor, their, their, uh, SEMA go rating is, is actually better. Um, Thomas refrigerating, but, but anyways. Nature. Medicine is [00:10:00] one of the best journals out there, but very high credibility. And so when they found us hydrogen gas, well, basically what they did is they.

[00:10:07] They took a rat and they stopped the blood supply to the brain. And of course, that's going to cause brain damage. Surprisingly though, what causes even more brain damage? Um, then then coming into the blood supply, of course the blood supply is not there long enough. The rat ends up dying, but. It, uh, when you let the blood supply go back to the brain, that causes us reperfusion injury.

[00:10:29] And that really caused a lot of damage. And what they found was when you administer, uh, helium gas rather than her gases, of course, to just totally, you know, lots of damage. But when you administer only a small amount of hydrogen gas, only, only about 4.4%, um, hydrogen gas. Yeah. Yeah. There was the markedly remarkably suppressed and brain damage.

[00:10:52] She was very noticeable, um, just by enhancing hydrogen gas at levels well

[00:10:57] Carl Lanore: [00:10:57] below the expo. So while I was like, well, let's talk about that in [00:11:00] practical applications, basically ischemia reprofusion of the brain is called a stroke. So cute. So theoretically, if you had someone who had a stroke administering a 4% enriched.

[00:11:12] Hydrogen gas to for them to breathe in the ambulance on the way over could actually mitigate some of the damage to collateral damage to the nerves.

[00:11:21] Tyler W. LeBaron: [00:11:21] Yeah. That that's, that's exactly what was shown in these animal studies. And now what, we'll get more into the clinical effects later, but there has been several clinical chemo studies now published with the street blend fraction or this drug showing absolutely.

[00:11:36] There appears to be a great benefit and in this area.

[00:11:39] Carl Lanore: [00:11:39] Okay. So the same thing happens to the hardest. Give me a reprofusion is what causes the damage to. Cardiomyocytes that ended up necrotizing and becoming non-functioning heart muscle. Would hydrogen enriched breathable air in the ride over to the hospital have any impact on, on ischemia reperfusion effects of the heart?

[00:11:58] Tyler W. LeBaron: [00:11:58] Absolutely. [00:12:00] In fact, uh, I published a review article in molecules and with my colleagues, um, I guess last year. And that's one of the main things that, that through you, our article talks about is reviewing, um, all the data and the literature is showing that very thing where hydrogen is great for, uh, uh, mitigating.

[00:12:18] This is the scheme of profusion injury. Somebody has a, a myocardial infarction, a heart attack. Um, well, okay, that's really bad. We start that hard again. Then, then that's when a lot of damage starts happening. It's called post cardiac arrest syndrome, and it's the same thing when they have to stop the heart for a surgery or all these different things when they need to stop, stop the heart or do like a, um, a, I use a a heart lung machine, for example, and do extra corporeal circulation.

[00:12:45] There's a lot of damage right there that's going to be occurring to the heart. This ischemia reperfusion injury. Well. The animal studies were showing that, okay, the conventional therapy for post cardiac arrest syndrome is hypothermia. [00:13:00] And when you do some of these animal studies, they're showing that without any therapy at all, it's no intervention.

[00:13:06] There's only about a 43% survival. Okay. So it's pretty, pretty grim. Now, if you do therapeutic hypothermia, that level went up to a 77%. Now when you do hydrogen gas, that level went up to 92%

[00:13:21] Carl Lanore: [00:13:21] but did it, did you have to do the hypothermia plus hydrogen gas? Are there any examples of justified

[00:13:27] Tyler W. LeBaron: [00:13:27] and you combine them?

[00:13:28] It was 100%

[00:13:29] Carl Lanore: [00:13:29] survival. Oh man, that's amazing.

[00:13:33] Tyler W. LeBaron: [00:13:33] That wasn't that. There's several animal studies showing this, and so now it's being applied at clinically and in fact, the Japanese government several years ago approved. Hydrogen gas inhalation as an advanced medicine, a class to be medical intervention. So they could do this major clinical study, 360 patients may have different hospitals specifically on the post cardiac arrest syndrome to mitigate this damage that that occurs.

[00:13:57] Right.

[00:13:58] Carl Lanore: [00:13:58] So, so for those of you [00:14:00] listening to this and thinking that the whole idea of hydrogen gas sounds like a lot of who we, do you remember for 2.5 million years. Various things have been incident upon us that have literally molded us into what we are today as humans. The sun, gravity, uh, you know, uh, electromagnetic magnetic Ray heat radiation before all of the RF soup that we live in today, what we really had was something called the Schumann resonance, which basically pulsed out of the core of the earth anywhere from seven, uh, I'm sorry, anywhere from 3.2 to.

[00:14:38] A 14.1 and it says 7.62 I think is like the median around the world. But we know that that magnetic pulse influenced what we are today to think that the gases that have been incident upon us. Uh, have not shaped us and influenced our, [00:15:00] our species in some way. It's just ignorant. Ignoring the facts.

[00:15:04] Ignorant, eh? Once you've been exposed to these facts, then if you ignore them, then you're ignorant. And so it doesn't surprise me that hydrogen gas does something. It doesn't at all.

[00:15:15] Tyler W. LeBaron: [00:15:15] W I, I, it's actually very interesting when you consider, I guess going along that line of reasoning, let's not forget that hydrogen gas was the very first molecule in existence.

[00:15:25] I mean, it is the father of all the elements. Hydrogen, you know, from the big bang was first produced. And then it's what powers the sun and the stars and fusion producing helium. And as those nuclei continue to combine together, you form all the other elements. So even the very, uh, Genesis or origins of the universe come from.

[00:15:44] Hydrogen, and then we, we, we look at the, the, the origins of life itself. Uh, life has been theorized to start, you know. Uh, you know, 4 billion years ago and maybe in these deep sea hydrothermal vents and [00:16:00] hydrogen gas, having a very strong reductive potential, these, these extra electrons can serve as an energy source of substrate, a food source.

[00:16:08] And if you can imagine. Then you have hydrogen gas in conjunction with the various metals like iron or copper and nickel, and pretty soon you have this enzymatic reaction, they can start to go just this natural catalyst. This is called a hydrogen ACE. Now we still have an art archi, Arcadia, right? And this bacteria.

[00:16:26] That basically was formed from using hydrogen gas as the initial energy source called the hydrogen hypothesis. So we have hydrogen gas involved, not only in the, in the origins of the universe, but also the Genesis of life. But then it goes further because we actually see that the evolution from the prokaryotes are typical bacteria.

[00:16:47] You carry out your plant animal cells. Hydrogen gas appears to play a very key, predominant, critical role that forged the bond between prokaryotes and eukaryotes. It was the key [00:17:00] messenger. It was a key molecule that allowed that to happen. Because you have this endosymbiotic theory. You have all these different things, but all of these things demonstrate that hydrogen gas was very critical because hydrogen gas was produced.

[00:17:10] And then hydrogen gas is using an energy source for, um, the different organelles. And now we have the macho country, a hydraulic Knasis, hydrogen Soames. All this comes from evolution. So. To sum it up, we have these three things. Hydrogen was involved in the, uh, in the origins of the universe, the Genesis of life, and the evolution of life from this first procurious all the way to what we are now.

[00:17:34] And now w we, we now need to get into, because, you know, there, there is some talk about this, that the hydrogen bubble or, you know, maybe the atmosphere is also rich in hydrogen gas at, at, at the time. We also consider that, um. You know, the, a lot of those bags, these, these bacteria, uh, we, we've been exposed to this bacteria for a long time.

[00:17:53] This producing hydrogen gas. And not only, yes, but we see in plants. So plants surprisingly also [00:18:00] respond to hydrogen gas. So it's not just, it's not just humans, but you're kind a bit. They have plants. In fact, we just published what I consider a potentially ground breaking study demonstrating that, um, V hydrogen ACEs are hydrogen masons, the enzyme that produces hydrogen gas.

[00:18:17] But we've actually found. That hydrogen gas can be produced when these hydrogen ACEs in the plasma membrane of higher plants can also can be produced and used, and that hydrogen gas production and utilization is critical to maintain the redox homeostasis of the plant itself as an energy sink type thing.

[00:18:36] And we see this in the plasma membrane of, of plants and different plants. Develops synergistic relationships with bacteria in the roots and different areas where that bacteria is producing hydrogen gas. Now we go to ourselves, like, I've got my microbiome. Well, we produce lots of hydrogen gas. Our bacteria naturally produces hydrogen gas.

[00:18:57] So we've always been exposed to hydrogen gas. So [00:19:00] even though humans, we lack the genetic halt, we lack the, uh, the genetic, um, proteins for the hydrogenous enzymes. Specifically. We do bear the genetic hallmark signatures of it, and we, and, and we're always exposed to hydrogen gas. So therefore, we may, um, we may actually, uh, have those various targets, the initial, um, embryonic targets, if you will, may still exist, which is why hydrogen gas still has a direct effect on ourselves today.

[00:19:29] Carl Lanore: [00:19:29] Okay. So two questions. First of all, if we have to go over an hour, can you do that. Sure. Okay, great. Do you want to make sure, and so what I want to do is, um, I actually want to ask you and I got a list of questions and we may end up touching on some or retouching on some of these things, but I want some clarification.

[00:19:48] So the very, very next question I want to ask you is, how specifically does molecular hydrogen affect health?

[00:19:57] Tyler W. LeBaron: [00:19:57] Yeah. So again, this is a, [00:20:00] um. That. That's one of the whole reasons to doing this research. So we can see how clinically effective is it really, because right now we're, we're seeing in cell studies and tissue studies and animal studies and these in these smaller Hema studies that yes, hydrogen gas is having a biological effect, but the question remains, how significant is this really?

[00:20:20] How clinically relevant is this? Is this really right? Um, and, and. We're seeing these studies that are being done in humans, the smaller studies, they absolutely is having an effect. So maybe if we look at some of the diseases, specific of the studies that have been done, um, we mentioned that the, the post cardiac arrest syndrome, for example, um, and we've mentioned a cerebral infarction.

[00:20:43] Well, I'll talk about that study. So in this case, they took a, see it start with a thousand people and then they. Based upon the inclusion, exclusion criteria went down to only 50 people in the study, and then it was randomized, so 25 in the control group at 25 and the hydrogen inhalation [00:21:00] intervention group now than the control group.

[00:21:02] They, they, they want to just a normal control in the sense that they didn't have anything. They actually were administered the medically approved drug at Donovan for stroke. So this is already a drug that's been through all of the stages. It's an approved drug and the Japanese use it and so on. And, and this is a dark bone.

[00:21:22] Okay. Now they compare the other group to inhalation of hydrogen gas. Well. They found that out to the staff in the study that when they looked at the national institutes of health rating scores, they looked at the MRI imaging of the brain. That inhalation of hydrogen gas is actually more effective than the approved a medical drug of Donavon.

[00:21:41] So that, yeah, that again suggests this, this might have some really important, serious, um, uh, clinical implications. Of course, that was a small study, like I said, only 50 subjects. But what we're starting to see more of these studies being replicated by different research groups. We're starting to say, Hey, you know what?

[00:21:58] Uh, th this might [00:22:00] really have some really important significance coupled with the fact that hydrogen gas is so safe. It's, it's, it's ubiquitous. So we're not talking about something that's alien, foreign substances to the body that has a whole bunch of negative side effects that just may so happen to be also be able to help you.

[00:22:15] We're talking about something that is really quite safe.

[00:22:18] Carl Lanore: [00:22:18] It's actually called a pharmaceutical drug, just for the record that has a little bit of effect positive, but it carries all these other bad effects right.

[00:22:26] Tyler W. LeBaron: [00:22:26] Yeah. So then that's, yeah, I guess that would be one of the definitions. Right? And that's why, honestly, that's why I'm so excited about a hydrogen gas research and therapy is because it's not, it's not that we know for sure that hydrogen gas is going to do this, it's going to help that, and everyone's going to be better, but, but really it's because the potential is there and it, and it looks very good.

[00:22:51] And, and it's so safe. And so why not take something that, that has this such a high safety profile that has such good [00:23:00] promise clinically and really, you know, educate and research. And it kinda, it kinda goes back to your question earlier, like, why I got started? Well, you know, that's, that this is the reason why it's always been in my, in my heart and what I want to do with my life.

[00:23:13] And so after I did, you know, that initial research in 2009 to 2011 I actually went to Japan. And at the end, went to Nagoya university for an internship for full fulfillment on my biochemistry degree. And I did research in the, in neuro genetics using hydrogen gas research to the molecular mechanisms of how hydro gas actually works.

[00:23:34] And then when I came home, I started, uh, the, I just the website molecular hydrogen Institute, and just wanted to educate. It's like, man, like, people need to know about this.

[00:23:43] Carl Lanore: [00:23:43] I says, this is not discussed at all. This is, you know, um. A lot of people would like to say, Oh, well, you know, the science is still emerging.

[00:23:52] Well, all science is still emerging. We've been having science on cancer emerging for what, 70 years now? Uh, everything is always [00:24:00] refinement of what we know. But, uh, clearly from it, you know, as everybody in this audience knows that I look at everything through an evolutionary perspective. That is my point of of applying critical thinking.

[00:24:13] Why does this make sense? Why would the body react this way? What benefit would have had had for us through evolution, so on and to ignore the fact that we've been exposed to hydrogen, possibly at even higher levels. Uh, which we'll get into later in the show is foolish. Okay. So I want to get my good friend Josh field has a question and I want to say we're going to answer this question.

[00:24:34] He basically, he's saying, how do we apply this? And we'll, we'll get to that. At the end of the show. We'll, we'll talk to people about applications of hydrogen. Um, Patrick Dahlin, who is also a super smart guy and a chemist, uh, abroad, he says, uh, also, what does NAD plus do transport hydrogen as NADH? Does it do that?

[00:24:54] Tyler W. LeBaron: [00:24:54] Yeah. No, that's a very good question though, because it's so, so NAD for those [00:25:00] who, who, you know. Off the record, but, but the NAD molecule is nicotine in mind. Adenine dinucleotide is very important for transferring the electrons while the bowel come up. Reactions and metabolism. It's, it's, it's critical for all of this and you want to have a high ratio of entity plus to NADH ratio.

[00:25:16] That high ratio produces increases like sirtuin. So increases PGC one alpha. Um, you know, th there's a lot of things that are very good for longevity, anti-aging, for overall health and everything. Right now, hydrogen gas. Remember, if this is just a very and basically biologically inert molecule, it does not convert into protons and electrons.

[00:25:38] It's not metabolized, uh, really by the body. That's actually why from about chemistry perspective, I'm. I'm a both. I'm extremely intrigued as well as skeptical that hydrogen gas would have any biological effected at all because hydrogen gas, it has a stable, you know, as one orbital electron overload configuration.

[00:25:56] Like it just, it's crazy that a hydrogen gas would have these effects from [00:26:00] that, from that biochemistry chemistry perspective. Right. So, yeah, it does not participate as far as we know directly in these, uh. Um, hydrogenated dehydrogenase, Tufts reactions to energy plus and NADH. Um, of course, except in that the plant studies I talked about, we, we do demonstrate that in those cases that actually have hydrogenated enzymes than hydrogen gas does promote, um, that, that activity.

[00:26:24] But again, humans do not have that hydrogenated enzyme. Interestingly though, hydrogen gas due to its effects in signal modulation, does actually increase that ratio of MD plus to NADH ratio. And just one interesting study there was, um, there was a studies shown where, um, uh, a very common environmental toxins, uh, pesticide from a, or, no, not , but.

[00:26:49] Toxin from a plastics that drastically affects the entity plus to NHA NADH ratio. It decreases that ratio. So that's really bad. And what [00:27:00] they found was administration of hydrogen gas is a cell culture study. So we can actually measure the entity plus entity H ratio, but they found that the, uh, exposure to the toxin decrease that ratio.

[00:27:13] But the  administration of molecular hydrogen. Prevented the decline of that ratio. So hydrogen gas exposure prevented the decline of entity NAD plus to NADH ratio. Now, another study studies showing that can actually improve that ratio. When say mitochondria, the areas are are compromised. So if there's going to be a relationship there, if not direct hydrogen gas, not directly doing better being transferred or something, but it actually can improve or increase that ratio.

[00:27:42] Carl Lanore: [00:27:42] Interesting. So we're going to take a quick commercial break, pay some bills. Anton. Dyson, I hope I pronounce your name right. I will get your question up in the next segment as we flow back into the, the preordained questions. Uh, we're talking today with Tyler LeBaron. His website is molecular hydrogen [00:28:00] institute.com.

[00:28:00] I, it's fascinating. This is, I kind of feel like Tyler is, uh, really on the, on, on the bleeding edge, not even the tip, but the bleeding edge of something that's going to prove to be very, very important. Uh, when we start to unlock diseases of modernity, uh, and look at what we are not paying attention to any longer that had a role in our evolution.

[00:28:27] Stay tuned. You're listening to superhuman radio. We'll be right back.

[00:28:32] Tyler W. LeBaron: [00:28:32] This

[00:28:32] Carl Lanore: [00:28:32] is the superhuman channel doing reps with the weight of the world. Welcome back. We got a lot of questions building up and I promise I will get to every single one of them. Um, we just want to flow back into the show. We're talking today with Tyler LeBaron.

[00:28:48] It's very, very fascinating. I can see why you're excited because I'm excited and you've spent what, 10 years in this space? 15 years in this space. So I'm excited. I'm like, Oh [00:29:00] wow, this is so amazing. Okay, so let's go to, how does it affect the gut? Right? 76% of Americans report having gut issues. Ah, I see in our population and I have a feeling that you're going to.

[00:29:15] Relate to this cause you see it too. We see very lean people who have very distended guts. They, people walk around, they're very lean, upper bodies, lean legs, lean, but they look like they're three or four months pregnant. So there's a lot of gut inflammation going on out there. And I also think it's contributing to going North up the esophagus and causing GERD, silent GERD, and even obstructive sleep apnea.

[00:29:37] Cause if gut inflammation is hydrogen. Able to do anything for people who have gut issues.

[00:29:46] Tyler W. LeBaron: [00:29:46] Uh, if possible. There are some, there is some interesting research along these lines. I think, uh, th there's the gut issues that there are it issues as plural, right? So it's not just one issue and therefore, and just [00:30:00] unequivocally say yes or no.

[00:30:01] Um, I think for some people it's probably not going to do anything for them. Um, but, but for other people it could probably really help. I think it all depends on what's really going on. I think one thing though, is that we talking about inflammation. Uh, w, which, which actually is a ubiquitous symptom of all these gut issues.

[00:30:18] Hydrogen can kiss should and could help eliminate or well attenuate this inflammation. But we're talking about trying to help the underlining causes, right? Not, not just the symptoms. And when we look at the different, uh. The research that has been done, whether it be an animals or in humans. Um, yeah. You know, first off, the gut microbiome we already know is so critical.

[00:30:43] I mean, there's more bacteria than there are human cells, right? That's like the whole other topic we could get into. But the bacteria also produce a large amount of hydrogen gas for the majority of people. Not everybody, but the, I mean, we're talking about leaders of hydrogen and gas [00:31:00] that's produced, you know, throughout the day.

[00:31:02] And when we, it is interesting, but one of the things that is helpful for people, whether it be for gut issues or just normal health, is they need to make sure they get enough fiber in a day. Most people these days don't. They don't eat a lot of fiber, they don't get enough fiber. And when you do eat your fruits and vegetables and your fiber rich mills, that fiber is then metabolized by the various bacteria in the gut to produce hydrogen gas.

[00:31:29] And there's actually quite a few, uh, very interesting correlational studies showing that when, when you. Break all the, uh, the con founds out the production of hydrogen gas from various fibers or even things like Laci Lois or a carbos or other, uh, drugs that end up producing hydrogen gas. The hydrogen gas could re re responsible for a lot of, basically the cardioprotective effects of, of say, a carbos or lactulose.

[00:31:55] These are studies. Uh, thousands of people that, that are published in, [00:32:00] in, in JAMA, you know, the journalism

[00:32:01] Carl Lanore: [00:32:01] habitual, which means that if you don't have a population of those and you consume those foods, it's probably going to lead to some sort of autoimmunity at some point in time.

[00:32:11] Tyler W. LeBaron: [00:32:11] Yeah. And it could because it's gotta be catalyzed by something, right?

[00:32:14] Some battery's gonna metabolize it, and now you're going to be producing, um, uh, byproducts. That is not God. Good for

[00:32:21] Carl Lanore: [00:32:21] you. And that's why when I first started talking about gut microbes years ago. I reduced it to, there are microbes in your gut that eat what you eat and poop out good stuff for you or poop out bad stuff for you.

[00:32:35] Basically in its crudest, uh, form. That is exactly what's going on. And so if you don't have the right microbes to digest that, then some other rogue microbes might digest it. And, and just like when you eat something that doesn't agree with you, it probably doesn't agree with them either. And what they end up making actually hurts you.

[00:32:55] Tyler W. LeBaron: [00:32:55] Yeah, yeah, exactly right. So, yeah, and then so then when we look at [00:33:00] the research on hydrogen gas, um, we, we have the, the attenuation of the inflammation, the various prone flammatory cytokines, maybe modulation of the gut bacteria. Now there has been data where if you already have a healthy population of gut bacteria.

[00:33:17] Then hydrogen gas isn't, it doesn't really do anything. So those, the hemo study that was done and there was really no change at all. And so on the one hand you could say therefore hydrogen gas and then do anything with the gut bacteria. But the fact is it was already a healthy microbiome. Right? Now you hear that to the microbiome that is perturbed or, or is or is.

[00:33:36] Toxic or is harmful. And now we're starting to see maiden. Yeah. Maybe hydrogen gas can affect the microbiome. And we're talking about the various, uh, substrates that are also produced, not just the, the, the types of bacteria, but even what is produced. What are the, what bypass are, are produced by that bacteria, that hydrogen gas.

[00:33:56] Is it w we're seeing two modulator, but, but absolutely, you [00:34:00] know, we w the people who, uh, well then these days, so much use of antibiotics, they can just decimate them, the microbiome. So now you're not getting near as much hydrogen gas. So going back to the ancestral thing, you know, where we used to get hydrogen gas all the time, whether it from even some of the natural water that people would drink from, you know, and it

[00:34:21] Carl Lanore: [00:34:21] would come up out of these Wells, like, uh, like they have in.

[00:34:25] They have North of me in, uh, in, uh, West Baden, Indiana. And also when I was a kid, we used to go to Saratoga Springs and the water that gurgles out smells of so many different gasses that I used to think to myself, why would anybody drink that? But apparently there's medicinal effects from it.

[00:34:41] Tyler W. LeBaron: [00:34:41] Yeah, the, yeah, the, there can be, they kept, the water can have hydrogen sulfide.

[00:34:45] It can have small amounts of hydrogen gas. I mean, so if your bait in this water, all these different things, this could account for some of these, these healing effects to some of these waters that date back, you know, hundreds if not thousands of years. And the waters that, that says that, you know, in the Bible from, you know, [00:35:00] water has been amazing area at this whole time.

[00:35:02] And. We have, um, yeah, maybe hydrogen gas could be responsible for, for some of these things. And, and, and then eating higher amounts of fiber. We're getting more, uh, hydro gas produced where we're not having the antibiotics. Again, this is our ancestors, but now we're, we're not eating as much fiber. We're not eating the right foods, and we're getting that these antibiotics, we're not getting as much hydrogen gas as we have evolved.

[00:35:24] We should, we should be getting, um, uh, and, and heavy evolved to receive. And now we're getting a benefit.

[00:35:31] Carl Lanore: [00:35:31] So right now, the current wisdom amongst the, um, uh, folded leading practitioners, we'll call them, will be nice. Uh, out there telling everybody they've got H pylori and they've got this and that. And by the way, um, the book missing microbes should be read by everybody who talks about.

[00:35:53] Any of these problems, H pylori or or, or any of the candida. You gotta read that book and educate [00:36:00] yourself first. That book, we talked about that book five or six years ago, but young children who don't have any H pylori develop asthma. Like at 100% so it's when we talk about microbes to use Joel greens turn, we talk baby talk, good microbes, bad microbes.

[00:36:18] You know, it's not that simple. It's not eradicating. H pylori may not be good for you. We just don't know. And there's reckless people out there telling you that it is. But with that being said, amongst these, uh, clinicians. It is thought that hydrogen gas expelled either through flatulence or belching up, which may show inhabitants of the small intestine with microbe that don't belong there, but nonetheless that that hydrogen gas has evidence of bad stuff.

[00:36:48] When I hear you talk, I'm thinking maybe those microbes are, they're producing hydrogen for a reason, as some sort of rescue mechanism for something that's going on in whip. Is he looking at WIP? Is he looking at the [00:37:00] military and we're not seeing the enemy over here?

[00:37:03] Tyler W. LeBaron: [00:37:03] Yeah. That's interesting. I've never, I guess I've never really thought about it like that too, that that could be a possible thing.

[00:37:08] We know, for example, when you, um. Push yourself and exercise your bacteria, wash it, produce higher levels of hydrogen gas. And I asked him, of course, protect, we'll get an exercise area, uh, later. And then, uh, some of the Japanese materials, um, when they've analyzed their microbiome, um, those ones who are living, you know, all the Syrians, right?

[00:37:29] They actually have a higher level of hydrogen gas or high a breath hydrogen. Um, and we, and we all see. The patients with Parkinson's disease. We know that's very highly connected to the gut microbiome. And several studies have clearly demonstrated that those are problems that disease have less, um, hydrogen gas producing bacteria in their intestines than those who don't have it.

[00:37:51] So, uh, you know,

[00:37:53] Carl Lanore: [00:37:53] high the body is making hydrogen gas cause he wants it.

[00:37:56] Tyler W. LeBaron: [00:37:56] Yeah, exactly. That's good. Is actually now. Um, but, but like [00:38:00] you said, it's not black and white. Good, bad. It's very much from, you know, more and more nuance we can't, is this is not the simplified.

[00:38:06] Carl Lanore: [00:38:06] No. You know what it is? It's conditional.

[00:38:09] It's conditional. And the conditions could be 1,010. We could learn more another thousand 10 years from now. It's conditional. Everything with the body is conditional. Trying to reduce anything that goes on in your body to this one thing or that one thing is insulting, is insulting to the complexity of the human body.

[00:38:30] It really is. Let's get some of these questions up here. So Anton Datsun, he says a few questions. When I look at the research, it seems higher dose POLST hydron interventions outperform lower dose steady. State. Would you agree with this?

[00:38:48] Tyler W. LeBaron: [00:38:48] Yeah. Um, probably I think, I think we still need more data, but we can look at the extremes.

[00:38:53] For example, in a Parkinson's disease study, uh,  it was found that a 24 hour constant [00:39:00] exposure of hydrogen gas inhaling, you know, 2.4%. Um, hydrogen gas in the air had no effect on Parkinson's disease. However, intermittent exposure intermit inhalation

[00:39:12] Carl Lanore: [00:39:12] with the, with the same, with the same weekly load. In other words, breaking up the same amount delivered over the course of a week.

[00:39:18] Okay.

[00:39:19] Tyler W. LeBaron: [00:39:19] No, no, because you're exposed to hydrogen gas 24, seven, you're getting leaders thousands and thousands of liters of hydrogen gas because it's 24, seven case. It was only 15 minutes every hour. And that this was, this was published in 2011 and 12 actually in Nagoya university. Right. W where, where I went and.

[00:39:36] Yeah. But the intermittent was effective, but not near as effective as drinking hydrogen water. So it does appear that that you have to have this intermittent type of exposure, this, this pulsing effect. And that's because hydrogen gas acts as this signal modulator. And you know, just just like people who are sitting down or whatever, you, you eventually don't feel the chat underneath you.

[00:39:57] You have this attenuation of the sitting there.

[00:39:59] Carl Lanore: [00:39:59] The [00:40:00] body body gets used to anything that you give it consistent consistently. There's an old saying amongst all people. You can get used to hanging if you hang long enough, but you, Oh yeah. If you and I even take, I even take a time off from supplements for that reason, because if you keep giving your body the same thing day in and day out, and that was proven in a idiopathic short stature, the same dose of growth hormone was given every day for a week.

[00:40:27] Or that same total dose was broken up into three and it was given haphazardly, you know, two days in a row. And then the fourth day. And even though the same dose of growth hormone was given to group a and group B. Be that got the unpredictable amounts still totaling the same weekly dose, had like a 30% greater growth rate.

[00:40:47] That shows you that if you'd even take growth hormone consistently all the time, and that's why everything in our body is die urinal. It's pulsatile. It's, it's not a steady stream of anything. So this makes perfect sense.

[00:40:59] Tyler W. LeBaron: [00:40:59] Yeah. [00:41:00] Yeah, absolutely. In fact, uh, and it was, it was cool, but when I was in, I was in Poland and there was a, a doctor who converted part of its Alison to a hyperbaric hydrogen, um, place.

[00:41:10] So it was like two atmospheres and w one, one at 3.3% hydrogen gas. Um, you know, they probably get some benefit from doing that, but, uh, but again. But if it's there constantly, why, suppose he goes out in the day. So maybe that, that well would end up being good. But if we think about how just the body is naturally, we're eating food, we eat fibers, then you have this higher amount of hydrogen gas is being produced and then it goes back down.

[00:41:34] So we always have these, these pulsing effects and so that that does not appear to be important. And for so many reasons that you just mentioned about, we'll talk about like mTOR and a top a G APK pathways. We could just go list. Down the line about the importance that this cycling.

[00:41:48] Carl Lanore: [00:41:48] Yes, yes. Uh, so, and part B of his question with real quick, I don't know that you want to say this on the air, but we'll give it a try.

[00:41:55] He said, if you had unlimited funding and resources to perform any single [00:42:00] study using hydrogen, what would it be?

[00:42:03] Tyler W. LeBaron: [00:42:03] Yeah. I probably wouldn't say that only because

[00:42:06] Carl Lanore: [00:42:06] we tried to get funded for it now,

[00:42:10] Tyler W. LeBaron: [00:42:10] but it was, but essentially it goes to the crux of, um, fully demonstrating the molecular mechanism of hydrogen gas because to this day, we still don't know the exact primary targets of what hydrogen gas binds to this molecule.

[00:42:23] This induces. Uh, this, this cascade is protein phosphorylation and this, it changes in gene expression and so on or, or whatever it is. We still don't exactly know. And I have some what I think, uh, of course, just my opinion like that even matters. But I think I have an idea of, of what that that is. And I would love to have the approval cause that's what we need.

[00:42:46] We need to know the exact mechanism. We need two things. We need to know the exact mechanism of how hydrogen gas works and we need, we need these large, you know, I mean, thousands of patients, multimillion dollar clinical studies to [00:43:00] demonstrate actually has, um, you know, the, the physiological significance that it appears that does in these smaller studies.

[00:43:05] Carl Lanore: [00:43:05] Uh, David mad scientist D does, L does eel, does he, Oh, I hope I'm pronouncing your name properly. Uh, it says we all owe a lot to Tyler, thank you to superior radio network for having him on, you know, for those of you who've never heard of this show before. I am the longest running health fitness and anti-aging podcast in the world.

[00:43:25] We are just entering our 15th year of continuous production. And it's funny because, um, we've always led the charge with groundbreaking information, and I think we're doing it again today. So there you go. Uh, Patrick Dahlin, who is also a chemist, he says, indeed, it doesn't transport molecular hydrogen as H two.

[00:43:46] However, singular hydrogen. With two electrons.

[00:43:51] Tyler W. LeBaron: [00:43:51] Yeah.

[00:43:52] Carl Lanore: [00:43:52] Okay. Now you guys are geeking on us now, so go ahead. Leave us out.

[00:43:57] Tyler W. LeBaron: [00:43:57] And I'm just trying to make the separation that that [00:44:00] is the MPD H actually transfers a hydride, so actually it's, it's two electrons and all by a proton FADH and fad tat chats was atomic hydrogen, proton and electron.

[00:44:11] And so that, that's how those, um, the hydrogen transfer races work. But in this case, again, hydrogen gas does not those ma, those enzymes do not make hydrogen gas. Neither do they metabolize hydrogen gas. And so they're, they're, they're really, totally different. But, but yeah, you're right. And indeed that transfers of the hydrogen electrons with this a hydride and approach on.

[00:44:33] Carl Lanore: [00:44:33] And, uh, I have a question that's going to come up after this one from a. A Coke boon hung Steven, and we'll get his question after this cause it'll fit nicely into this question here. How does hydrogen exposure to molecular hydrogen affect longevity and aging beneficially? Obviously.

[00:44:53] Tyler W. LeBaron: [00:44:53] Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah. We hope.

[00:44:55] We think so. We look at the longevity, anti-aging, hallmarks of [00:45:00] things like the PGC one alpha. We look at sirtuin expressions, um, and then, and then just overall inflammation, right? A chronic high level or. Or, well, chronic low grade inflammation, right? Um, it's just pathological that that's accompanied with age and, and that's really the problem with aging is a dysregulation of various systems.

[00:45:20] And I think I want to emphasize that this, this very important part about the dysregulation, and you have dysregulation of. Um, uh, free radicals and antioxidants. And so, you know, for a long time everyone's talked about oxidative stress and how off, you know, the free radicals are just going to kill you.

[00:45:38] And, and you know, just like, cause you cut the Apple in half an a turns Brown and oxidizes. So two, it's going to oxidize the body and the cells. And that's true. But we also see a lot of research showing that high levels of antioxidants are just as damaging as high levels of free radicals have to have.

[00:45:56] Uh, this homeostasis between the two. Right? And this, um, [00:46:00] and it even goes to what you were talking about earlier, right? Um, of having a pulsing, right. But, but really it's this, it's, it's a redox homeostasis, oxidation reduction, homeostasis. And that's, that's what we want. And interestingly, aging, there is an increase in oxidative stress, but there's, it's really an increase in our redox dysregulation.

[00:46:19] Well, you can have a too much oxidative stress going on in some cells, say in the, in the cytosol, the cell. And it's, you know, damaging a lot of things. The cell membrane, which is critical for the function of the cell, but you can also have a lack of oxidizing power or rocks in a potential. And in other compartments of the very same cells, such as the endoplasmic reticulum, which is responsible for folding the proteins.

[00:46:42] Carl Lanore: [00:46:42] And not only that, but if responsible for the contribution to plaque, it's responsible for the contribution to. A poor cell signaling because the endoplasmic reticulum is basically the Telegraph office of the cell and it sends messages, and if those messages are garbled, bad [00:47:00] syntax, missing words, wrong place to put a comma, they just float around until they stick to something.

[00:47:05] We know that endoplasmic reticulum that have gone arrive from fragmented sleep produce a ton more beta amyloid plaque.

[00:47:15] Yeah,

[00:47:16] Tyler W. LeBaron: [00:47:16] yeah, exactly. And part of the issue is they don't, when they're not given the right exposure or side, the right level of oxidation reduction power to, for example, oxidize the sulfur for proteins to, to cut to a well, to create a Sophie bridges and different things.

[00:47:31] It, cause we know the number one thing you learn in biology about chemistry is that a structure dictates function. And so proteins are for the correct cause you're going to have all these problems. And so aging. You have in the same cell, too much oxidative stress going on a one compartment and not enough oxidate of potential a power going on in another, and that's a dysregulation or redox dysregulation, right?

[00:47:53] That's really the issue with the aging and diseases. And the same thing can be said with inflammation. [00:48:00] Inflammation is. Th th there's nothing more important or harmful than inflammation. Right? And we, when we, when we have a wounds, when we are trying to recover from a sports athletes, when we're trying to heal from something, um, when we, when we get sick, we need to fight off that infection.

[00:48:17] All of that is inflammation. And we want to be able to have a rapid response and take, get control of those things and have a fast recovery, fast Chilean and so on. But with aging. That response decreases and you, and you don't have a very good inflammatory response,

[00:48:31] Carl Lanore: [00:48:31] but the real thing that becomes missing from the inflammatory response is resolution.

[00:48:36] As a result, resolving the inflammation by repairing, and in many cases, upgrading, uh, the, the damaged area or tissue.

[00:48:45] Tyler W. LeBaron: [00:48:45] Yeah, absolutely. Right, and then, and the exact same time you all, you have this chronic low grade inflammation, just a whole bunch of off proinflammatory cytokines eicosanoids activation of NF, KB and

[00:48:58] Um, you know, and [00:49:00] fast signaling and all these things that can induce further inflammation. Just chronic low grade all the time. So you have the swelling, you have joint pain, you have all these problems, you're not healing, not recovering. And that is a dysregulation, right, of, of a yin and yang relationship of the pro and anti inflammatory mediators.

[00:49:18] And this is the issue with disease and agents. So I'm just trying to put this story there. Um, uh, you have a dysregulation of redox from your Stacy's and a dysregulation of inflammatory response. And that's the issue with disease and aging. Well, hydrogen gas seems to fit in both one of those areas where it can help to bring things back to redox homeostasis.

[00:49:37] So we talk about, um, um. Improving the redox regulation of the cells. Well, that's exactly what hydrogen gas does. It does not promote further, um, uh, reduction when it doesn't need to be. And it doesn't, um, promote, uh, further oxidation if it doesn't, maybe, but it can bring things back together. Um, so that'd we'd have someone to say, so what do we even get into?

[00:49:58] And then the same thing with the inflammation. [00:50:00] I didn't. Because of Haydn's ability to regulate, say, NF, KB, whether it can upregulate it or down-regulated and fast signaling and a whole bunch of other transcription factors that control inflammation, hydrogen, gas modulators, those things. So by getting inflammation and the the redox homeostasis back into check BALCO there's supposed to be, that is what's going to get.

[00:50:22] Well, that's what's going to make hydrogen gas. So anti-aging and helping with the longevity and better living and so on. And we see this and they, and the animal studies, for example, when you give the animals that have either genetic mutation or you give them a really bad diet or a toxins, and you see that the group that has a hydrogen gas, the the mean lifespan of the group that was using hydrogen.

[00:50:44] It's longer. So they have the increased lifespan in that case. And, and also their, they function better. They, you know, until they die. So in those cases, we're seeing that, yeah, hydrogen gas is great for this, uh, anti-aging, longevity area.

[00:50:57] Carl Lanore: [00:50:57] And real quick, uh, just to add to that, [00:51:00] because there isn't a, an anti aging, uh, theory, uh, that the mitochondria, uh, that has been put forth by, um, Aubrey de grey.

[00:51:10] He's been on the show a couple of times years ago. And, uh, I disagree with a lot of his assertions about, you know, don't exercise cause you're just creating more free radicals. You know, the body has a, uh, a way of upregulating its own production of, of antioxidants. Uh, most notably glutathione, the harder you work.

[00:51:26] But with that being said, um, is there any, uh, tests that show how hydrogen affects, uh, or stimulates mitochondrial biogenesis.

[00:51:37] Tyler W. LeBaron: [00:51:37] Yeah, we have, there's two things, right? So, one, if you have a compromised mitochondria because you have too much free radicals because you have bad signaling or different things, hydrogen gas can improve the function of the mitochondria.

[00:51:49] So you can produce more of the AGP. We see that edgy gas can prevent the, the, the decline in the, um, in inner membrane mitochondrial potential. Um, you [00:52:00] can, if you can decrease, uh, problems with like the proton, those in various protons, instead of, you know, so you can increase the ATP synthase, um, activity.

[00:52:09] You have. Well, there's several different AIDS where hydrogen gas able to improve the function of the model country. So that's one area when I'm out of country is fun. It is dysfunctional or a compromise. The other one is a hydrogen gas. There is some data showing that high G gas can stimulate a model Contra production.

[00:52:28] When they're, again, when, when the cells are under stress. Cause if your cells are already normal and everything is great and you don't need more ATP, well you're not going to produce more ATP because you don't need to. In fact, high levels of ATP is toxic. Um, you know, high levels of anything is, is harmful for you.

[00:52:44] You're not going to get activation of APK, which, which is so important for the autophagy and all this other stuff. So. Yeah. How is it not just going to discriminate? Oh yeah, I'll just make more ATP and then we'll just make more mitochondria. We'll just do all this stuff. It's really about homeostasis. So again, when you give a [00:53:00] toxins, when you have a lot of stress on the body, when you have, um, uh, maybe a bad diet, when there's a genetic mutation, we see these in the animal studies.

[00:53:07] We see the hydrogen gas does increase, uh, markers, a Moto Contra biogenesis such as PGC.

[00:53:13] Carl Lanore: [00:53:13] That's a big one right there. Believe it or not, you know. I had Dr. Michael Smith on this show a decade ago, and we talked about this notion that a part of the age and aging is multifactorial. Cause in essence, cells, telomeres all have something to contribute to the discussion, but it's multifactorial.

[00:53:34] And, and a lot of research back then showed that, um, some of the phenotypical, uh, markers of aging, um. Skin gets wrinkly and saggy, you know, a bad turnover of cells. Uh, it comes down to the availability, uh, of the body to create new mitochondria. Uh, because this, uh, [00:54:00] this little viral hitchhiker we picked up along the primordial ooze to where we are today.

[00:54:05] While it contributes. Uh, to energy. If you don't have enough mitochondria, you can't make a new cell. You can't go, Oh, we'll make the cell for now. We'll find the mitochondria later. It doesn't work that way. And so, uh, there is a theory out there that in fact, uh, aging has a lot to do with that process of slowing down.

[00:54:23] I want to take a break. I want to take a break. We have lots of questions coming in from onlookers. Some people are saying they've never heard of the show before. Share the show. We can actually change lives if we can get more people to understand. And agree to take responsibility for their own health outcomes.

[00:54:41] Uh, we could actually impact the world. We could start here in the United States, and quite frankly, um, if we actually did that and insurance companies were paying less because fewer people with demanding, uh, to be covered for the next 30 or 40 years from avoidable diseases. [00:55:00] I know I piss people off when I say that, but, you know, type two diabetes, you have to give that to yourself.

[00:55:05] It's not a disease, it's a condition. It's completely reversible. So that's the mission of this show, to get to empower people with good ideas that they can then go research, apply critical thinking to, and take control of their own outcomes. Because if you're waiting for a doctor or a pharmaceutical company.

[00:55:24] To give you a pill that fixes your problem. You're severely wrong. But what's even worse is you're missing the real point that you hold the power in your own hands to fix what's wrong. Stay tuned. Be brought back the superhuman channel where brawn and brains finally meet

[00:55:46] Welcome back. We're talking with Tyler LeBaron. We'll talk about hydrogen gas. I know that's a party joke. I'm going to tell from now on when I cropped us somebody, I'm going to say, I'm doing you a favor. I'm [00:56:00] spraying you with some hydrogen. Breathe it in. Breathe it in. Don't let that go away. All right, so how about molecular hydrogen?

[00:56:06] And we have more questions. I will get to all of them. I promise. Uh, and, and exercise and performance. Cause this is an area that kind of gets sexy now,

[00:56:14] Tyler W. LeBaron: [00:56:14] you know? Yeah, absolutely. Um, and for me too, of course, that's kind of what I'm, uh. Uh, w one of the passions that got me into this whole area, but I just love, you know, pushing my body and exercise, um, competing and everything.

[00:56:29] And so I was first interested, Hey, you know, what about, uh, the effects of hydrogen gas and exercise? And it appears some, some of the research has been done so far, including. A few of the studies that I've done in humans that, um, hydrogen gas does have an ergogenic effect. Um, so where, where do, where do we begin?

[00:56:48] Um, okay. Let's talk about the ergogenic effects first. So the, in ergogenic just means, of course, for performance enhancing, right, right. When we're, we've talked already about the motto Condrey [00:57:00] and the motto Chondra is the number one, uh, organal, but producing most of the ATP. So during a real quick exercise, and as you start to, um, is you start to increase your activity, then the mitochondria may not be able to support very much, uh, ATP production or can't support AGB production fast enough.

[00:57:19] And so now you can start getting fatigued. Well, hydrogen gas and its effect in, um. PR, promoting ATP production, other mitochondria, and prevented it from becoming damaged. For example, you're producing all these free radicals from exercise, so that could damage or compromise amount of concha. Well, hydrogen gas can help to, uh, make sure the mitochondria is still functioning optimally, allowing you to produce more ATP.

[00:57:43] So some of these studies, for example, one of the first ones was done in elite soccer players, which I, that alone is interesting because often elite athletes don't respond to very many things,

[00:57:55] Carl Lanore: [00:57:55] but the reality is they don't respond to many things because they're already, their body is already running at [00:58:00] a, at a peak level, and if they see a 1% increase, that's huge for them.

[00:58:06] Tyler W. LeBaron: [00:58:06] Yeah. Yeah. Is that which, which, which is maybe not even a statistically significant.

[00:58:11] Carl Lanore: [00:58:11] No, but to them it is because it's like, it's like you gotta you gotta you got an 11,000 horsepower, a funny car, and you improve the horsepower, 50 by 50 horsepower. Eh, you're not going to notice that much, but you take a Vega and you add 50 horsepower to it, all of a sudden you go, wow, this car's flying

[00:58:30] Tyler W. LeBaron: [00:58:30] now.

[00:58:31] Yeah, exactly. Absolutely. Well, and in this, in this study, what they did is they, they, they performed a various exercise. Um, w you know, they extensions and a bicycle and they found that hydrogen gas. Um, well they took me out to gas and dissolve it into water and they drink that. And just by the drinking hydrogen water, they are able to, um, exercise longer with that happened as much fatigue as well as having a decrease of, of lactate or people call lactic acid [00:59:00] production even though there's actually no lots of gas in the body.

[00:59:03] Um, but, but the decrease in lactate production, which then correlates to, um, better exercise performance, probably because you're able to improve the function of the mitochondria. Because again. When you don't have enough AGP production by the mitochondria, then your body has started using by Colossus and we produce glycolysis, and the Angie produced that molecule.

[00:59:24] and my roommate can't get oxidized in the mitochondria. Instead of starts producing lactate. But you're able to,

[00:59:29] Carl Lanore: [00:59:29] and now and now LA high lactate levels was being identified as actually contributing to cancers.

[00:59:35] Tyler W. LeBaron: [00:59:35] Yeah. Yeah. Because it's very easy cause lactate is not just a bipartite molecule. Lactate is actually a very, um, powerful, um, neuro hormonal, uh, molecule.

[00:59:46] And so lactate, it's interesting. Uh. Um, and again, the pulsing effect of what is. So, for example, high insulin in exercise, producing lots of high levels of lactate, that's going to be very good for the brain increase in brain [01:00:00] derived neurotropic factor and a whole bunch of other things. In fact, one of the preferred energy sources.

[01:00:06] Of the brain is not glucose, but lactates of course ketones are get cheaper. We're talking about lactate. The brain loves lactate. The heart loves lactate, and so lactate is such a good molecule. In fact, when you metabolize a lot of the, a lot of the glucose that goes into the enter the body. Uh, the red blood cells metabolize a lot of that all to, um, you know, to, to lactate.

[01:00:27] And then, and then it gets, goes to the quarter cycle and gets produced to the glucose back. And then there's your glycogen. So is very important, but high levels of lactate because you are, have compromised mitochondria because you have all these other things and you, and you just. You have a high was Latin all the time.

[01:00:41] Well then now, now, because  is a strong neuro hormonal signal, you can start pathogen pathogenically causing all these perturbations in the cells. So again, going back to the exercise. Yeah. Hydrogen gas, uh, was able to help decrease the amount of lactate [01:01:00] levels, improve exercise and fatigue. Um, there's also a study that we did with, uh, um, it was a randomized, double blind, a controlled placebo controlled study, and found that, um.

[01:01:12] During a moderate intensity exercise, a hydrogen gas could help. Too low though were the, is exercising a heart rate. And so that's exactly, you know, at an elite athlete for example, is going to be able to run at a certain pace, um, with a heart rate that's a lot lower than then there than in a more sedentary counterparts because their, their cardiac output of their heart is a lot stronger.

[01:01:37] So one beat of the heart. Moves a lot more blood through everything. And so they don't have to have the harm, a higher high of a heart rate. And in this study, we found that there's a lower resting heart rate. And then none of the study I, I published with some of my colleagues in Japan, um, a few, a couple of hundred patients actually in totality, but they also found a lower resting heart rate and a [01:02:00] lower proceed exertion.

[01:02:01] So a lot of times people when they try the hydrogen, um, they, they're able to. Just continue doing the exercise of higher th they recover a lot faster. So they have the bouts of exercise. Now maybe they're going to get fatigue at the third or fourth set, but now they're starting to feel, and this is anecdotal, but just kind of going to the significance of kind of what these research findings, but, but they'll report back that they can now go for the fourth or fifth or maybe even the sixth out of sprint.

[01:02:26] And so we're up there of their, of their sets of 10 are there sets to failure, something they can just get more rep loser petitions in and not get fatigue as easy. And so when you talk about, you know, a competition in the game day, being able to recover for the next competition, cause you gotta a lot of times in the collegiate sports, you compete one day and the very next day you're competing again.

[01:02:46] So this, this, uh, recovery, um, with soft tissue injuries, uh, speeding up the recovery after that. Um, in fact, I published an article, um, in the Canadian journal of physiology and pharmacology. I'll also last year with, with some of my [01:03:00] colleagues where we actually compared, um, exercise. The toxic and beneficial effects of exercise to those of disease and hydrogen and, and, and, and the kind of like, uh, even like what you mentioned earlier with what Dr.

[01:03:15] Albert  was talking about, exercise is good for you, but it certainly can be toxic as he was

[01:03:21] Carl Lanore: [01:03:21] the, the, the, the, the, the, the guy who ran to marathon to give them the news that the enemy was coming died spontaneously as soon as he got there. So there are, there are excessive. Points of exercise, obviously.

[01:03:33] Definitely.

[01:03:34] Tyler W. LeBaron: [01:03:34] Exactly. So, and I, and I want to talk about that because when you want to be a real class athlete or just be the best you can, unfortunately, that's seems to be what it, what it takes. You've got to push yourself at levels that are chronic levels of really high intensity.

[01:03:53] Carl Lanore: [01:03:53] Just comfort. You have to suffer.

[01:03:56] Tyler W. LeBaron: [01:03:56] You know, these crazy people running a hundred miles a week, um, you know, [01:04:00] training. Um, not that I may or may not be one of them, but because of this, I realized that I need as to, to protect myself the best that I can. I have this, I have this mental problem, if you will, where I like to compete. I like to push myself.

[01:04:14] And I know it's probably not the best thing. Pushing myself as hard as as as I do, but to mitigate that, I want to have a good diet. I want to have good sleep. I want to have, you know, everything I can do. And one of these things is hydrogen gas. And now when we look at this, the, the negative effects of exercise, we're seeing a high levels of free radical production that over that, that, that.

[01:04:36] Um, are more than what our body can handle. High levels of inflammation. We get these injuries in different things, and this is almost the exact same thing that happens in disease. In fact, a chronic exercise is a very good disease model. And when you, marathons and things and they're not trained for it, you can measure the different proteins and damaged markers in their body.

[01:04:57] And you would think if a doctor per [01:05:00] cardiologist looks at that, they're like, they just had a massive heart attack. So we see all these, like we just talked about, the, the studies on hydrogen gas using for post cardiac arrest syndrome because it can help prevent all this damage of inflammation, ischemia, reperfusion, um, all these issues.

[01:05:15] Well, by the same token, heavy, um, noxious exercise can do these same things. Well, hydrogen gas can. Mitigate the toxic effects of the disease will then perhaps it can mitigate against the toxic effects of this noxious exercise. Now, now let, let, let's not a M B fool ourselves into thinking that the only form of noxious or or harmful exercise are these crazy people who go and push themselves for hours on end.

[01:05:41] The other part that's really bad are the people who don't exercise and then they decide, I'm going to go play basketball

[01:05:47] Carl Lanore: [01:05:47] for four.

[01:05:48] Tyler W. LeBaron: [01:05:48] Yup. The weekend warriors, you, you have no idea how much damage that does to your body cause you are not trained for it. So you levels of inflammation, oxidative stress, your DNA damage, all of these [01:06:00] things are just just skyrocket.

[01:06:02] And so that's, that's even, that can even be worse than the person who's exercising all the time because at least they're causing also genetic changes, epigenetic changes, and increasing a lot of protective proteins in their body. But the other company's not doing it. And so these two groups. The ones that are exercising a heavy a whole bunch and the ones who really aren't exercise and accepts that I'm going to go on on a, on a hike or you know, weekend warrior, I then I'm thinking these ones are the ones who

[01:06:30] Carl Lanore: [01:06:30] need hydrator.

[01:06:31] Yes, they need protection. They need, they do need protection.

[01:06:34] Tyler W. LeBaron: [01:06:34] Absolutely. Right. So. Um,  the article, then it goes through and compares these two, and then it shows that, okay, all these molecules that are influenced by disease and, and exercise, hydrogen gas attenuates or modulates or decreases or increases.

[01:06:49] And so hydrogen gas appears to not only be a great ergogenic molecule, but one of a great Protopic. Protective molecule also, and also potentially to some of [01:07:00] these benefits because exercise, one of the reasons why exercise is good for you is because as well as some other things, is because of the concept of, for me, SIS, right?

[01:07:07] It's a hormetic effect, which is basically a small amount of the toxin. You know, what does,

[01:07:12] Carl Lanore: [01:07:12] what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger. So you have small amounts of poison, make you resistant to diet, get being killed by that poison. Yeah.

[01:07:19] Tyler W. LeBaron: [01:07:19] Right? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And that's what we're, we're thinking hydrogen gas.

[01:07:22] So exercise does that, and now we have some data. I'm showing that hydrogen gas also acts as this, uh, as a fr MUTEK molecule Mito for basically induces model for misses and increases. Uh, you know, the, the, the basically put pinch taste, the benefits of exercise as well.

[01:07:40] Carl Lanore: [01:07:40] Uh, Patrick Dahlan has a question. He said, uh, can you ask if there is any connection between fad and FADH two and hydrogen gas intervention?

[01:07:52] Tyler W. LeBaron: [01:07:52] Um. Probably similar to the counselors we had with the NADH issue. Um, there, there's, so, there's no [01:08:00] direct connection. Um, the, the lemonade adenine dinucleotide that one's actually the complex to the motto.  so that's actually right in there. It's, it's, it's membrane bound. And so hydrogen gas is not going to participate in those redox reactions either.

[01:08:14] However, they're, well, I, I don't want to go into that really, but, but, but for the most part, we'll say no at this point. Um, but at least in the conventional sense of over looking at it.

[01:08:23] Carl Lanore: [01:08:23] Um, well, we exposed to different levels of hydrogen. Is there any evidence, uh, that, okay. You mentioned, uh, the role of fiber, and we know that as we've gone through evolution, if you look back at Australia, pithy Gus robustness, they were our last vegan ancestor, uh, Australia , uh, grass seal or Africanus was the first one to introduce.

[01:08:49] Uh, eating meat and, and, and stuff like that. Uh, and, uh, we know that we've gradually eaten less and less [01:09:00] fiber, and what happened was our brains got bigger and our guts got smaller. Uh, with that being said, is there anything else in the environment? Can we look at soil samples and say, wow, the atmosphere had a lot more hydrogen in it back a million years ago.

[01:09:16] Tyler W. LeBaron: [01:09:16] Now there, there, there is some data on that. Um, but that's so long ago that it's really hard to really say if, if for sure that's, that's the case. I'm not, I mean, and that's, and that of course is also before, you know, we have been around in terms of, of humans in terms of the evolution. Does that make sense?

[01:09:31] Yeah. And I think. You know, right now the atmosphere is about 0.00055% hydrogen gas. So it's, it's way too low to have a therapeutic level, but that also means that by enriching hydrogen gas to this only two or 3% hydrogen gas concentration, well, that is orders of magnitude higher than what we're getting from the atmosphere anyways.

[01:09:53] So the people who want to say, well, hydrogen Z, you know, it's ubiquitous. It's everywhere. We're always exposed to which we are from the bacteria, and we have been from [01:10:00] the evolution. But there is a significant difference. So we're actually, um, actually inhaling hydrogen gas or we are actually dissolving, um, these molecules in water and then adjusting it.

[01:10:10] You are getting a significant amount of hydrogen gas. Uh,

[01:10:14] Carl Lanore: [01:10:14] boy, I've got a lot of questions. Uh, I'm going to try to roll through these very quickly so we can get through. Um, the first one from Dan Towey, uh, about gut issues addressing pathogenic. Parasites, bacteria, virus, yeast, candida, including billions of good probiotics and consider cleansing to this w w.

[01:10:37] w with all respect. This is really the modern thing that people say when they want to be specialists in this field. First of all, we know nothing about pro to probiotic supplementation. If anything. Dr Satish Rao came on the show two years ago about a study he did that showed that people are actually giving themselves [01:11:00] a small intestinal bacterial overgrowth by this Willy nilly approach to just taking billions and billions of, of CFU.

[01:11:07] Of mostly lactic acid producing, uh, probiotics. And it's why D lactic acidosis, which is only produced in the gut, go through the roof. These people have brain fog, they have pain and joints. It's a terrible thing. And I know this is true because I thought just like you did Dan, I used to take two 900 billion CFU is a VSL number three a day and ate lots of fiber with it.

[01:11:32] And I gave myself CBO that I only got rid of last year. And it was horrible. It was. It was horrendous. Uh, the other thing is about cleansing. I don't know if you're talking about colonics or cleansing is BS. Unless you are donating blood, you're not cleansing anything. Drinking a drink that's supposedly cleanses your digestive system is tantamount to you cleaning your house by just cleaning the hallways and letting everything just back [01:12:00] up in the rooms.

[01:12:01] Drinking a drink is not going to go into. And when we talk about cleansing, people are acting like, okay, you have toxins built up in your fat cells mostly, and we're going to blow this dog whistle. All the toxins are going to leave those cells and you're going to pee or poop them out because you're drinking this drink or eating that food.

[01:12:20] Nothing could be further from the truth if that was true. Every cleanse. User would end up in the ER from toxic shock. If everything that you've accumulated for the past 40 years just released into your bloodstream, your liver couldn't handle, handle it, your brain couldn't handle it. So at best all cleanses do is, you know, clean the hallways, cleans the digestive track out.

[01:12:40] Now, I'm not saying that that's nothing. That's something with people who have gut issues, but a cleanse really isn't doing much if you really want to detox your body. Donate blood and lose body fat at the same time, and you'll get rid of a lot of really bad things that are in your system. Uh, this one here comes from [01:13:00] David again.

[01:13:01] Uh, he wants to ask when inhaling hydrogen via a mask, a 66% H two and 33%. Oh two, uh, is anaphylaxis nation a major risk just as it is when inhaling helium. That's a really good point because people, people have gone into helium tanks to fix them and they were supposed to be empty and they died inside those boiler boiler shaped tanks.

[01:13:27] Tyler W. LeBaron: [01:13:27] Yeah. Um, of course, absolutely. You know, you, you, if you don't get oxygen, you're going to die. It's just a simple case. And the fact is a lot of people don't necessarily recognize it and not getting oxygen st that's why carbon monoxide is so deadly, and that's why, um, you know, the helium can be so deadly and hydrogen is because we do not bring, um, we didn't, we do not.

[01:13:50] The reason we breathe, the stimulus to breathe is not. For oxygen, it's really to Excel the CO2. And so w, you know, we could be inhaling all this [01:14:00] hydrogen and not necessarily realizing, Hey, I'm not getting the oxygen, but you know, the atmosphere is 21% oxygen. And so if you're inhaling and like in this case, 33% oxygen, well then that's, that's plenty.

[01:14:12] So there's no risk of fixation in that case. Um. Yeah. So, so, you know, you just have to be wise, but what you're doing, you can't just inhale a hundred percent hydro, uh, hydrogen gas and think you okay.

[01:14:22] Carl Lanore: [01:14:22] Yeah. And the interesting thing about the, uh, uh, the relationship of, uh, of a carbon dioxide, uh, driving, uh, the breath impulse, and that's the whole basis of katsu breathing method is to push the threshold of tolerance into, uh, your ability to.

[01:14:40] Have higher levels of blood CO2 up, and there's evidence that it actually improves the absorption of oxygen because it CO2 is required to help facilitate the release of oxygen from red blood cells. Uh, so that's another interesting thing. Yeah.

[01:14:54] Tyler W. LeBaron: [01:14:54] Yes. It's, it's, it's the board effect. That's what the lungs have a higher pH, so they can IX it, [01:15:00] it grabs onto the oxygen in the air really, really tightly.

[01:15:03] And then as it goes into the cells. That's, that has a lower pH. It releases the oxygen really well. That's just the, that's the corporate activity of hemoglobin and the bore effect. Yeah.

[01:15:14] Carl Lanore: [01:15:14] A real quick people paying us a. Some credit here. Thanks, uh, to Tyler and super Yuma radio. And of course, uh, thank you.

[01:15:23] Supima radio network and Tyler. So we'll get those up there. Can tile a comment and then I have a couple more questions. We'll take a break. I'll have a couple more questions and I'll let you go. Uh, can Tyler comment any on the effects of breathing hydrogen gas on brain inflammation when it comes to head injuries, uh, and prevention of them in sports TBI, he's throwing out TBI.

[01:15:43] Tyler W. LeBaron: [01:15:43] Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there w we know, for example, the inflammation in the brain is a very major problem. And then there are quite a few, uh, at least animal studies showing that inhalation of hydrogen gas decreases those markers of inflammation. And so there are some, there are a few studies [01:16:00] specifically on, um, on TBI where hydrogen gas was able to decrease the swelling, decreasing relation, increased ATP production, and improve overall.

[01:16:10] Um, you know, just improve overall function of the brain. And so now more, more, uh, clinical studies are needed. There was a, uh, a case study also that was done, um, in that, in this very area that had some very good results. Actually. They think they, they used, yeah, they use the very tablets, um, that, that we've used previously in our study.

[01:16:29] But, um, the ones that you had talked about earlier, um. Um, and of course there's, there's, there's other ways with the, with inhalation and making it, but the fact is, is that you're getting a high amount of hydrogen gas and, and then in the, in the, in the case study that it's published, what we can, we can post the link.

[01:16:46] Um, they had actually

[01:16:48] Carl Lanore: [01:16:48] said, send me the link and I'll put it in the show notes too when we, when we post the show. Um, this looks like a last question. Um, if we were to use ozone therapy along with hydrogen inhalation, how [01:17:00] far apart. Should we do them, I guess. Do you administer them separately? A, can you put ozone and hydrogen in the same, you know.

[01:17:08] Tyler W. LeBaron: [01:17:08] Yeah. Uh, you, you, you could put it together. Ozone doesn't, um, is not a strong enough oxidize it to actually react with hydrogen gas. Although ozone could decompose a four hydrops radicals, which then could react, but you were probably kid to administer them simultaneously. In fact, um, that be fine. I kind of think, um, the combination of, of oxidative therapies such as ozone or hyperbaric oxygen or, or different things like this.

[01:17:36] Would be good to do in conjunction with hydrogen for the exact same reasons I explained about exercise being toxic in terms of being, you know, really, really, uh, um, lots of ROS production, lots of, you know, damage. So by the same token, hydrogen gas can help to mitigate some of the off offshoots or negative effects of, say, ozone, um, and, and so few to administer hydrogen gas previously if [01:18:00] you kind of prepare the cells, kind of a pretreatment really a precondition.

[01:18:04] And then when you use ozone, then you're going to get all those benefits of ozone with maybe not, not as much, um, accidental damage, if you will. So, um, but, but I don't think there's, you know, you don't need a separate, and by so many hours, I think the closer you use them together, the better one has to go before, I would say hydrogen gas go straight, go

[01:18:22] Carl Lanore: [01:18:22] before, it's almost like a prophylactic at that point in time.

[01:18:25] Yeah, yeah, and grace. Russell says, Ooh, this is so cool. Thank you, Grayson. Don't forget to tell your friends about super human radio. Su-Preme radio.net we're going to take our last commercial break. When we come back, we're going to distill this down to administration and how to use hydrogen in your own life.

[01:18:41] Practically. Stay tuned. We'll move over. Superheroes.

[01:18:47] Tyler W. LeBaron: [01:18:47] This

[01:18:47] Carl Lanore: [01:18:47] is this superhuman channel. Welcome back. . Welcome back. We're talking with Tyler LeBaron. We're talking about all things hydrogen right now. We're covering a lot of ground as quickly as we possibly can, [01:19:00] so that the real $64,000 question, can you imagine when I was a kid, $64,000 was a lot of money where people would actually try to change their lives by winning it.

[01:19:11] But sticking with my age, the $64,000 question is, how do you administer it? How, for how long? What did dosing's like, how can I apply what I'm learning from you, uh, to, um, to take advantage of hydrogen molecular hydrogen?

[01:19:26] Tyler W. LeBaron: [01:19:26] Yeah. Excellent question. This is actually quite a few ways they can be administered.

[01:19:31] Um, you know, we talked about inhalation of hydrogen gas and that one, uh, w it's, it's, it's amazing, um, the studies that are being done and in fact, um. Uh, the, there's some really powerful study that was just that I wanted to bring this up earlier. That was done from, uh, Harvard and the Boston Southern hospital where they found that inhalation of hydrogen gas again, prevented, um, the damaging effects of the brain during.

[01:19:56] Um, extra corporeal circulation. I think so. And that [01:20:00] networking tool with the FDA to come out with a few to be able to do a study, cause that's the have to approve of the theme of reclaim and really do a, a strong clinical study. Um, so they can do a human study to see its effect. So inhalation is one of them.

[01:20:12] And just a couple of caveats about that is, uh, we, in order to have a benefit of hydrogen gas, you actually have to do. Yes, hydrogen gas, um, at levels that are sufficient or at a, at a high of a high enough dose or concentration. I mean, even right now as we're just breathing in the room, like I said, we're in, we are inhaling hydrogen gas, that's hydrogen.

[01:20:33] They're just such a, such a small amount, but it's not going to have any therapeutic effect. There's a typically. You know, in, in the clinical studies, the concentration is, is about two to 4% hydrogen gas. And that means that, uh, all the air that you inhale is around two to 4% hydrogen gas. So if we, if we inhale on average, if we breed about five to six liters or five to eight liters per minute, well then if you do the math, then we're going to need it [01:21:00] to have enough.

[01:21:01] When you do get hydrogen gas that's being produced, you know, anywhere from say 200 to 600 milliliters per minute or so. So I just say that because there are some different products out there that people claim, Oh look, this makes a, you can have hydrogen gas. It's making five or 10 milliliters of hydrogen gas PO.

[01:21:20] That's not going to yet. Maybe that'll do something maybe for where it's directly touching their face or the mouth or something, or the nose. But that's not, you can't use that data or that, that you can't use the data that's being done in the clinical studies to support, um, what, what's trying to be, what's being marketed as that makes sense.

[01:21:39] You want it

[01:21:41] Carl Lanore: [01:21:41] to have the same, we see, we see this all the time in supplements, right? So there's a study written about. X, Y, Z compound, and it has this wonderful effect. Uh, and so some company comes out with a supplement capitalist capitalizing on XYZ supplement in capsules, but then you go back and you look at the [01:22:00] study, you see that the.

[01:22:01] The, the, the study participants were getting, you know, a a hundred milligrams per kilogram three times a day and you're taking a 600 milligram capsule once a day and you go, this stuff sucks. It doesn't do it. Of course, cause it's completely under dosed. And what you're basically doing is talking about the under dosing of molecular hydrogen and expecting it to do the same thing that the appropriate dose does in a

[01:22:23] Tyler W. LeBaron: [01:22:23] study.

[01:22:24] That's exactly right. And that's as far as the cabinet when it comes to installation, is you have to look at the flow rates. You have to look at, you know, these types of things. And in the same thing when it comes to, comes to water again, we are talking about a hydrogen gas. We're not talking about something we hear about, you know, alkaline pH.

[01:22:40] I think potential hydrogen. So therefore the higher the pH, the more hydrogen gas or, but that's, there could be anything further from the shoes. pH has nothing to do with. The hydrogen gas that we're talking about and, and you want to get to levels that are similar to what use in clinical studies. And so you'd have to just be careful about that.

[01:22:59] You can [01:23:00] measure the concentration. Of course, the gold standard is gas chromatography, but you can use this a reagent M a called HQ blue as methylene blue and, and little clam as a catalyst. You can measure the concentration. Um, so that, so that's one thing on there. And then. There's other ways too, cause you can also do a intravenous injection of of hydrogen rich saline.

[01:23:21] And this has been done in Japan. Some other clinics, even if it's here in the U S if you are doing these types of things, again, we don't know. Okay, is this more effective than another way? We need more studies on that. Um, bathing and hygiene and gas. Uh, that's, that's also a one way that can be done. I think that's pretty cool.

[01:23:38] You get an a direct contact on the scans. It's because hydrogen gas so small, I

[01:23:42] Carl Lanore: [01:23:42] would have to be believed that hydrogen gas is expensive. And here's my logic, right? So, uh, we have oxygen concentrators that people would. Oh, pulmonary issues use to enrich, uh, and deliver more oxygen so that they, they, they have, their body isn't starving for oxygen.

[01:23:57] And oxygen is, is probably the most [01:24:00] abundant gas. So it's easy for it to separate out and improve oxygen delivery by 10% 12% but when you talk about starting out with the, such a minuscule amount of, of hydrogen in air to begin with, and then having to super concentrated, I would imagine that. Unless you're buying tanks of it from some company that supplies acetylene and all these other things, uh, and, and, and literally piping it into your nose with a, some sort of a device that reduces a, and it can read and tell you what percentage of hydrogen is in your air.

[01:24:36] There's really no way to take advantage of an breathable hydrogen outside of a clinical setting. Am I wrong about that? Uh,

[01:24:45] Tyler W. LeBaron: [01:24:45] well, yes and no. I mean, there, there are, um, you're, you're right in the sense that there's, there's, there's, there's so many variations towards the inhalation of hydrogen gas that you, that it's very easy to not get the dose that you want it to, but there are these [01:25:00] inhalation machines out there on the market, on, on Amazon, Alibaba.

[01:25:04] People are selling them. They just do electrolysis of water. And. It produces the hydrogen gas. And, and, and the problem with that is often the flow rates quite low. Um, maybe you're not getting the very much hydrogen gas. It's not an then the machines are quite expensive. They, they, they really are. And, and then I've heard a lot of people say that they've gotten machines and they broken down so they don't last very long.

[01:25:25] Or they have all these positives.

[01:25:27] Carl Lanore: [01:25:27] I've heard that too by several people. The machines they bought weren't cheap by any means, but supposedly they weren't. The good ones. You know what I mean? It's like,

[01:25:35] Tyler W. LeBaron: [01:25:35] right. Yeah. That's so, so you can get the hydrogen gas that way. Um, but yeah, it's just, it's, I S you know, this is a new industry.

[01:25:43] This is a new area, you know, so, so let's give it, you know, um, some time and we'll see things develop.

[01:25:49] Carl Lanore: [01:25:49] And so here's, here's another thing that I, I, it makes me curious if they're using. Oxygen concentrators, that that's electrifying water to liberate the, sorry hydrogen [01:26:00] concentrated that electrifies the water to free the hydrogen, correct me if I'm wrong, but they make heavy water, which is basically deuterium by high electrification and heat from that electrification of water.

[01:26:15] So what's the chances that that unit, I'm not breathing in some deuterium along with this, uh, liberated hydrogen from water.

[01:26:22] Tyler W. LeBaron: [01:26:22] So. Okay, so, so that's a good, good, good question. We should talk by, talk about the deuterium story a little bit. First off, inhaling, deuterium gas probably has no benefit or harm.

[01:26:33] Harm effected off. Deuterium gas alone is just deuterium gas. There's some data. Um, I'm published data that showed the deterioration gas had no biological effects, no beneficial effect, no harmful effects. And there was, and then some other data that showed that it did have a beneficial effect. And, but that, that's deuterium gas.

[01:26:51] And that is completely and totally different than the deuterium that is found naturally in water,

[01:26:57] Carl Lanore: [01:26:57] water, water. [01:27:00] And cattle and chicken cause guess what? They drink water. So I mean, yeah, they super concentrate deuterium and an animal flesh. We super concentrate deuterium at some point in time too.

[01:27:10] Tyler W. LeBaron: [01:27:10] Yeah, we do.

[01:27:11] We do. And I just wanna make the point that in those cases that to trim those two Cheerio atoms, they are attached to carbon that's attached to oxygen. It's attached to nitrogen. The Detroit owls are attached to different things and they became  and therefore they become. I'm very involved in the biochemical reactions and enzymatic reactions and metabolism.

[01:27:33] Those are hydrogen atoms or the chain atoms that are actually attached to these different atoms. Do chewing them. Gas is just to do, chew him out on the test. Only together, that's it. Or hydrogen gas to hydrogen atoms attached just together. So they do not participate in these redox reactions and metabolism, anything like that.

[01:27:50] So inhaling, deuterium gas, as far as we know, there is no. Evidence that is bad for you. Okay. But I don't know, Adams that's in water, like drinking heavy [01:28:00] water or taking a food that has rich into cheery and that, that is bad for you. That's

[01:28:05] Carl Lanore: [01:28:05] absolutely that. And the reason I wanted to pose this question this way is because it appears to me that through evolution, the lungs have been very good at filtering out, if you will, or not absorbing, if you will, uh, certain things that.

[01:28:23] Uh, maybe aren't good for us. Uh, some things they get passed, but the bottom line is the Ava lorry is evolved, you know, handling gas, if you will. But the gut lining hasn't really gas to the gut lining. He's kind of new. I mean, if, unless we gulped something down and we swallowed a massive air bubble. So it seems to me that a lot of the research on hydrogen.

[01:28:47] Seems to favor delivering it as infused water because there is a complete breach of the system that's in place in the lungs that doesn't exist in the gut.

[01:28:58] Tyler W. LeBaron: [01:28:58] Well, I wouldn't say [01:29:00] that necessarily favors that. It's just that that's kind of how the course of action happened and it is interesting, one of the various, the very first study in nature medicine.

[01:29:08] That was done with inhalation of hydrogen gas. Then the, the group was doing another study on, um, uh, um, the April  April eat protein knockout mice model to develop atherosclerosis. And they were, and in this case, they were inhaling hydrogen gas. They have hydrogen gas in the, in the case the animal's cage.

[01:29:30] And they would have hydrogen gas. And initially they saw good effects and then the effects went away. And they thought, maybe that's interesting. Um, maybe it needs to be Intermed exposure. So they, they then infused hydrogen gas into the water and they had tremendous benefits and they found that the ingesting of hydrogen hydrogen water completely, completely prevented the development of atherosclerosis.

[01:29:54] And so that was kind of an initial study to kind of like, Hey, maybe this water is good, but let's not forget that they, [01:30:00] that the bacteria in the intestines produced a whole bunch of gases and we do absorb that into the bus stream. And so we always have a constant level of basal gases that we Excel all the time.

[01:30:14] The reason why the lungs are so good is because. The high pH. We have hemoglobin that carries the oxygen, and so hemoglobin has to go to the lungs. The pH has to be higher. That makes the facilitate a pH to grab onto the oxygen, which we need. We need a lot of oxygen when we need lots of oxygen every day, and that carries into the rest of the body.

[01:30:34] There's no carrier for hydrogen gas. Hydrogen gas just diffuses through through the body. So there's no difference in terms of whether you're. Inhaling the gas, you know, one one way or get in another way. If it's dissolved, it's dissolved because there's no transport protein or carrier for it. Um, but, but when it comes to the deuterium story today, going back to your original question about the electrolysis, this is a very important thing because, um, uh, at least to discuss, because it is true [01:31:00] that with electrolysis, you have what's called the, uh, um, the isotope effect.

[01:31:04] And deuterium. Um, is twice as heavy as normal hydrogen, right? Because hydrogen only has one proton and one electron the hydrogen atom does. And Julian has proton electron and a neutron and a neutron and proton have about the same, the same mass, so that that's going to make it twice as heavy. So it's very different than say, when you have, you know, uh, oxygen.

[01:31:25] And you know, you add just one more neutron to, it's the Jamaica heavy oxygen or something. That's the only changes that the mass, you know, very, very little bit because auctions are split. Some that auction with 32 says the only way, you know, 33 it's not very much versus hydrogen, it's going to weigh twice as much.

[01:31:41] Carl Lanore: [01:31:41] So dr Lazos borrows his work in a summary and a reader's digest version is that deuterium causes. Damage to the mitochondria because the mitochondria can't do it at once with the deuterium. It can't separate it into a hydrogen and oxygen the way it likes it kinda. [01:32:00] It forces the, the mitochondria to work a lot harder, harder.

[01:32:04] Any evidence of that on your side?

[01:32:07] Tyler W. LeBaron: [01:32:07] Again, we have no, we don't do anything with your chewing at all. So. You know, all of our research has nothing to do with that.

[01:32:15] Carl Lanore: [01:32:15] But

[01:32:16] Tyler W. LeBaron: [01:32:16] that primary premise is absolutely the, is absolutely true. That that seed, deuterium is so much heavier. And so, and it's, and, and it's. All these different things.

[01:32:25] So it cannot go through the ATP synthase enzyme. You can't make ATP with it, which you can't with normal hydrogen. So there's lots of problems with high levels of deuterium, and when you do electrolysis of water, it is the idea. One of the ways you can make heavy water is do electrolysis on water for a real long time.

[01:32:44] And because all the normal hydrogen gets put out into the gas and all the heavy hydrogen, the Trillium stays in the water. Jane, but, but that takes, you know, I mean, you have to do that for like days and days of electrolysis to really start to increase the

[01:32:58] Carl Lanore: [01:32:58] amount and the temperature of the [01:33:00] water. And so it's not just the electrification of the water.

[01:33:03] But it's the, also the rise in temperature of the water and the rise in temperature of the water is staggeringly hot, which is probably not happening in one of those, uh, hydrogen, uh, machines at all. I mean, the water is never getting that hot. You

[01:33:17] Tyler W. LeBaron: [01:33:17] know, typically it was the, yeah, when they made it separate to CHAM, they use the distillation processes.

[01:33:24] Main method and then electrolysis, another process. But I w to, I guess to conclude the deterioration story, um, they, the, the hydrogen gas story that I'm doing and I'm talking about in our research. It is, has nothing to do with do the deuterium story.

[01:33:41] Carl Lanore: [01:33:41] No, I get it. It

[01:33:42] Tyler W. LeBaron: [01:33:42] might be a connection. And I, I've talked with, uh, with, uh, dr Laszlo Boros about this before.

[01:33:48] Um, actually we just, we talked to several months ago, um, in California and, and there might be a connection just in the sense that because the model country is so critical, um, and the deuterium can really damage [01:34:00] the mitochondria. Well, hydrogen gas. Like we talked about can stimulate the mitochondria, make it function better.

[01:34:06] Carl Lanore: [01:34:06] While it may actually be, yeah. May actually help the mitochondria overcome the effects of deuterium. That's very, very fascinating. Grace, Russell,

[01:34:13] Tyler W. LeBaron: [01:34:13] I'm sorry. Oh, just it could remember the mitochondria. I considered shame depleting organelles. So the more mitochondria you have, and theoretically, the less you change you're going to have because you have more Moto mitochondria.

[01:34:25] So that's kind of the whole idea. She wanted to marry the two together.

[01:34:29] Carl Lanore: [01:34:29] Grace Russell is asking a couple of questions, but I really think that we've covered these questions earlier in the show about, uh, how, uh, H two effects redox. Uh, and then also a glycolytic function. We did talk about that a couple of times already, uh, earlier in the show.

[01:34:45] Tyler W. LeBaron: [01:34:45] Right. Yeah, we did. I mean, just, just, just briefly. Um, it depends. I mean, it certainly can we talk about the lot to production, um, when you talk about, uh, the redox desks of the cell, not just in terms of the, the koans, I was like NTD plus NADH ratio, but [01:35:00] just in terms of being the antioxidant and, and oxidative molecules that are, that are there.

[01:35:05] Um, there are, you know, there are some potential influences with, with, by Collossus. And I think you have to look at, um, how has being studied the timescale, the time course courses being studied and even even what cell line is being studied.

[01:35:18] Carl Lanore: [01:35:18] Okay. And then, um, the last thing I want to ask you is when using a hydrogen infused water.

[01:35:26] Is it adequate to just use it once a day? Do you have to use it multiple times a day? And is there a, a dose or a dose that raises hydrogen to a certain millimole level in the blood? That seems to be the magic place you want to be?

[01:35:41] Tyler W. LeBaron: [01:35:41] Um, yeah. Excellent question. Um, I don't, we don't really have the best optimal answers at this point, but we do know what doesn't work.

[01:35:49] Um, and what doesn't work is not getting hydrogen. Um, and, and. You know, when you, when you think about it, if you're only going to take a small amount of small dose and drink a small amount of [01:36:00] that hydrogen water, then you're going to dilute that through about, you know, 40 something liters of water in your body.

[01:36:06] And so take the actual milligrams you're ingesting, you know, say it's, you know, one, one mil, uh, 0.1 milligram or 0.1 PPM. You drink a full liter, well, let's say allergic capsulitis. That's 0.05. Milligrams of hydrogen divided by 40 now you're down at a concentration that is likely below the therapeutic level, below the level that we need to administer to a cell culture system in order to induce a favorable effect.

[01:36:32] And so when we look at the cell culture studies and we look at the animal and the hemostat is. And we see the doses. Um, you know, you, you're gonna want, um, you know, if you're drinking, let's say a half liter, two liter, you're gonna want a minimum of, of, you know, a half 0.5 milligrams per liter to, you know, two, three, four or five, um, milligrams per liter or PPM, PPM, a milligram per liter.

[01:36:55] Uh, pretty much the same measurement right. Then they will look at the dose dependency [01:37:00] effects and it does appear that in in at least, uh, several or many cases, even that a higher dose, a higher concentration can be more effective than a lower concentration. Now, that's not always the case there. There are several clinical studies showing that a low effect, a low dose is just as effective as a high concentration.

[01:37:18] But there are several others that show that a high dose is more effective than a lower concentration for different diseases like may, maybe metabolic syndrome, which is a study that we're working on publishing right now, and we did a study on nonalcoholic fatty liver disease or showing, again, a higher dose could be more, more effective.

[01:37:35] Importantly, though. We have no data or no evidence that a lower dose is more effective in a higher dose. And so the idea then is, Hey, uh, if, if there's, if there is a benefit to be had, then likely a higher dose will elicit that benefit or you know, but you can't overdose on hydrogen because. Yeah. You just Excel it out.

[01:37:55] Carl Lanore: [01:37:55] I was going to say, you'll fart it out. Don't worry about it. [01:38:00] Uh, look, this is fascinating and I'm sure that, so those of you who are watching this show or listening to the podcast, if you feel like we miss something, email This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. we'll have Tyler back on the show to address your questions.

[01:38:16] I think that we have kind of a, a primer here. About hydrogen. Um, I've been experimenting with it. I noticed some things with it. I definitely, my gut, I noticed changes in my gut. I would love to do an overfeeding type study. I would like to do a twice a day for 30 days, uh, and, and really see what changes, uh, because I, I really do believe from an evolutionary perspective that, uh, this molecule hydrogen.

[01:38:48] Has played a role in who we have become, and it's one of those things where if we start to supplement with it, like supplementing with anything, uh, there may be some really amazing, [01:39:00] uh, uh, things in our future. So yes, we will have Tyler back on again, David. Yes, absolutely. Is David your, your ma, your manager by any chance or your agent?

[01:39:09] No.

[01:39:12] But listen, it's been fascinating. I'm really happy that we got to spend some time together today. Thank you so much.

[01:39:19] Tyler W. LeBaron: [01:39:19] My pleasure. Appreciate it.

[01:39:20] Carl Lanore: [01:39:20] All right, and so we are going to go ahead and take a break now and say goodbye. Uh, we will be back on the air tomorrow. We have a renewed life RX show tomorrow.

[01:39:29] It's probably going to be something about hormone replacement therapy usually is. Uh, thank you for listening. Don't forget. Go up to eat legendary.com and get your tasty pastry. Now if you are a fan of the pop tart, heaven just came down to earth cause you're going to love the tasty pastry, low carb, nine grams of protein and you will feel like you are cheating when you eat that.

[01:39:55] Stay, stay healthy, get into the gym. Train hard. We'll see you tomorrow. [01:40:00] .