[00:00:00] Carl Lanore: [00:00:00] Welcome back to another episode of superhuman radio. Today is February 5th, 2020 for those of you listening to the show a hundred years from now and realizing that we will way ahead of the curve, a title sponsors legendary foods. You know, they just came out with a new tasty pastry. It makes eating a pop tart, like pastry, a good for you, nine grams of protein.

[00:00:23] Oh. Three to four grams of impact. Carbs, a wonderful product, but also don't forget, legendary foods has amazing nut butters. My favorite, I keep it on my desk is the Apple pie. You know, sometimes I just want something that tastes decadent. A spoonful of that, and I'm happy. Go to eat legendary.com legendary foods, uh, the best snack products out there today if you're concerned about what you eat.

[00:00:56] So we have been doing a lot of shows recently about [00:01:00] different modalities of, uh. Both, uh, determining biological age as well as, uh, maybe affecting biological age. My guest today is Dr. Brian Kennedy. Uh, he is the former CEO of the buck Institute on research and aging, and also currently, uh, the center of healthy aging, uh, over at the national university of Singapore.

[00:01:23] Welcome to the show, Brian.

[00:01:25] Dr. Brian Kennedy, PhD: [00:01:25] Thanks. Thanks

[00:01:25] Carl Lanore: [00:01:25] for inviting me and thanks for being here. Because you're in Singapore right now. What time is it? Like 10 30. And I know.

[00:01:31] Dr. Brian Kennedy, PhD: [00:01:31] Yeah, one in the morning. So I'm going to do my best to be coherent.

[00:01:35] Carl Lanore: [00:01:35] Oh man. I'm sorry. Because we both know how important sleep is for aging. Well, I'm taking, I'm taking a couple of months off.

[00:01:42] You live today, so thank you very much. Okay.

[00:01:44] Dr. Brian Kennedy, PhD: [00:01:44] I'm not going to measure my biologic gays tomorrow. Don't worry.

[00:01:47] Carl Lanore: [00:01:47] Let's start with that. Let's start with this whole concept of biologic age. You know, this is a, it's a very new, uh, metric, if you will. You know, uh, uh, you're, you're, I'm 60. [00:02:00] Uh, one soon to be 62, but maybe my biological age is 54 if I'm lucky.

[00:02:04] It's not 65. We'll talk about that a little bit. Expand on this whole concept. What are we looking at? What markers are we looking at? Yeah,

[00:02:12] Dr. Brian Kennedy, PhD: [00:02:12] I think it's a fascinating discovery. You know, we tend to talk about the idea, the discovery, that there've been many interventions that may slow aging, and I'm sure we'll come to that.

[00:02:21] But the other side of the coin is the discovery of ways to measure aging. And I think that's absolutely critical. You know, your passport's graded, measuring your chronologic age. The problem is that we all know that people age at different rates, and there's been a lot of effort over the years to try to figure out how to measure that.

[00:02:39] People started by looking at individual factors in the bloodstream, like inflammatory factors or metabolic factors, but not have a really, I give you an accurate prediction and at the level of a biomarker, what we really want to, something that will predict mortality, that will predict onset of disease and functional decline, and that will be responsive to [00:03:00] intervention.

[00:03:00] So if we take an intervention that slows aging, it should slow or reverse the progression of a biomarker. And what's happened over the last. Five to 10 years, starting with the methylation clock, and, um, Steve Horvath and Greg cannon and others is that people have started looking at a very deep data sets, uh, in this case, uh, the methylation pattern of the DNA throughout your genome.

[00:03:24] Uh, and using artificial intelligence and large numbers of individuals to try to lead machine learning approaches, calculate, um, a biologic age. So that's something that's close to your chronologic age, but divergence. And so, for instance, I just did a, uh, methylation clock for my mother. I haven't told her yet.

[00:03:44] She's 80, and it said it's 69. So, hopefully what that means is that biologically she's only 69 when chronologically she's 80. And that's great. Yeah. Well, I hope so. So, uh, I think that none of these [00:04:00] cracks that I mentioned, only one of them so far are validated. Uh, but a lot of them are looking really good.

[00:04:06] And I think it's critical as we start to test interventions, we have to have things to measure to indicate whether these interventions are really slowing aging or

[00:04:14] Carl Lanore: [00:04:14] not. So, uh, yes. You know, yesterday it was telomere length. Now we understand that length may not be the answer, but the rate in which telomeres shorten may be more important to know.

[00:04:27] Um, we have, uh, people like DAGA McKell, blaggers, Kloni, who's been on the show a few times, talking about senescent cells. Um. And now we add methylation. Do we do these triangulate? Do these, like when you start looking at methylation, do you see, Oh yeah, look, you know, it corresponds with what we understand about senescent cell accumulation or anything like that.

[00:04:51] Yeah.

[00:04:51] Dr. Brian Kennedy, PhD: [00:04:51] I think, I think all of these age pathways, uh, triangulate. Uh, we wrote a paper about five years ago, uh, [00:05:00] looking at seven pillars of aging. And, um, of that we included epigenetic mechanisms, which would include the methylation and the telomeres. Uh, we included inflammation is senescent cells are a big driver of inflammation and also metabolism and other factors.

[00:05:16] But the key issue really was how interconnected they were. And the way I think of aging is not so much that there's one thing driving aging, but rather that you have a sort of a homeostatic network in the body that, uh, functions to keep you, uh, disease free, keep you functional. Compensate for the damage that's occurring as you get older.

[00:05:40] And if you get enough insults to that network, the equilibrium falls apart and then you spit out a control. And depending on what direction you do, you start getting these diseases of aging. And so really, I think that what we're doing and these interventions is we're touching on these nodes that control many different pathways of aging.

[00:05:58] Uh, and we're [00:06:00] basically preserving the network longer and that keeps people healthy and functional. So when you look at rapid Y centers are ways to kill senescent cells or Metformin or, or applicated glutamate that we're studying, uh, with, uh, PDL. I think that all of them are probably doing. Specifically, I can do different mechanisms, but at the end of the day, they're preserving that network.

[00:06:22] Carl Lanore: [00:06:22] And we're going to get into alphaketoglutarate because that's the interest of molecule we're going to really be focusing on today, because it really is a, when I've, you know, I listened to one of your Ted talks, I've listened to a couple of things in preparation for the show, and I was like, Oh, wow, I need to be taking this.

[00:06:40] And if it goes, you know, I know, really, I, I, you know, . I don't believe every supplement in the world should be taken. But I do think that there's evidence that certain things are very beneficial. And, uh, with that being said, you know, Aubrey de grey was all about mitochondria. Uh, you know, uh, [00:07:00] uh, Dr. Black is, he was all about, uh, senescent cells.

[00:07:04] I have a, I have a different opinion and, and I'm going to throw this at you to see if this intersects with your work. I believe aging is the result of . The bioaccumulation of metabolic debris. One of them is iron. Uh, if you look at iron, it does everything from impaired glucose tolerance and insulin sensitivity to a hyper inflammatory response to, uh, destroying tissue directly, uh, because of its presence.

[00:07:33] So when you look at your work. And we're going to be talking about alphaketoglutarate here in a minute. Does, does, does, is there a component of this that says, yeah, we can actually start to reduce the load of metabolic debris buildup.

[00:07:49] Dr. Brian Kennedy, PhD: [00:07:49] Yeah. I think another way of, I think we're saying the same thing. What happens when this equilibrium breaks down is that you can't easily coordinate the thousands of [00:08:00] different metabolic reactions that are going on in yourself.

[00:08:03] So, so what happens is some metabolites will decline with age, and you can say allocated literary goes down with age. And also a NAD goes down with age, which is another metabolite that's linked to the aging process. Other things like, uh, uh, iron and other minerals accumulate. So it's really, um. Uh, probably, uh, basically it's a loss of the normal levels of these different metabolites, and ultimately that's driving all kinds of different chronic conditions and diabetes for sure.

[00:08:35] Cardiovascular disease, it's linked to that even Alzheimer's is associated with some of these things. So, um, I think we're, we're looking at the two sides of the same coin here when we talked

[00:08:46] Carl Lanore: [00:08:46] about, so let's get into alphaketoglutarate because I've heard of alphaketoglutarate. Uh, as a, uh, form of an amino acid that's designed to increase [00:09:00] nitric oxide production.

[00:09:00] And that is, uh, uh, one of the, uh, uh, arginine, uh, I think it was alphaketoglutarate around, um, the alphaketoglutarate that you've been studying is a, a form of calcium, uh, alphaketoglutarate correct.

[00:09:14] Dr. Brian Kennedy, PhD: [00:09:14] Yeah. Uh, and, uh, we have some reason to believe that this calcium late four may have more activity with respect to aging and some of the other versions of AKG that you can get.

[00:09:25] And we're actively trying to demonstrate them. And now with the rib mammalian studies on lifespan and health span and looking at frailty, um, I think of it as a metabolic flexibility molecule. Really what it does is help. I couldn't burn between carbohydrate metabolism and amino acid metabolism. So if you want to break down amino acids, you need alphaketoglutarate for that.

[00:09:48] And it's also a TCA cycle component so I can feed into the cycle and generate energy through mitochondria. You can use it for a whole range of different pathways. And [00:10:00] so. When this molecule's going down with age, it that crosstalk between amino acid metabolism and carbohydrate metabolism is not as easy to do in cells.

[00:10:09] So cells are exposed to different concentrations of nutrients all the time, and they have to use those nutrients. So make the, the building blocks they need to function. And if you can convert easily between one type of nutrient and another, it's a lot easier to do that. So by restoring a kg, we think that that's, you know, maybe one of the big factors that we see there that for the reason that promotes healthy aging,

[00:10:33] Carl Lanore: [00:10:33] do we see a reduction in alphaketoglutarate?

[00:10:35] Okay, so the word kettle jumps out right. The kettle diet and ketones and ketone salts and ketone esters. It's all the rage today, uh, because we understand that the body can run on a couple of different, uh, energy substrates, ketones being one of them, glucose being one of them. Do you think there's any linkage.

[00:10:55] Between the production of alphaketoglutarate, which there is a beta, but [00:11:00] it's less produced, but the production of alphaketoglutarate, uh, in the diabetes model where glucose is always available, regardless of whether it can get into tissue, is that impairing some of the production of alphaketoglutarate and the average American.

[00:11:17] Dr. Brian Kennedy, PhD: [00:11:17] Uh, we, we don't really know the answer to that. We know that the levels of applicating glittery going down with the age, uh, and we're trying really hard to understand the mechanisms for that. You know, I think that it's interesting parallels with the ketogenic diet, which has become so popular and, and, you know, I, I think that.

[00:11:37] When you talk about ketogenic diets and, and, and healthy aging, a lot of it may depend on how you get to keep the Genesis, because there's, you know, there's one way to do it by fasting and reducing calorie intake. Uh, and that's probably a healthy way to get to like  genic state in your body, um, or maybe periods of, uh.

[00:11:58] Altered diet [00:12:00] where you alter macronutrients to promote ketogenesis may be good. I don't know if long term, probably Peter Jennings state is a good thing.

[00:12:09] Carl Lanore: [00:12:09] We've actually done a show on that. And we've shown that it has the ability to change a micro RNA and germlines and alter like, like I said, vocally on the show that if you're planning on having a baby, it's not good to be like constantly in ketosis because what you do is you're sending a signal to the building blocks of that baby that the environment is this way or.

[00:12:35] And the baby is going to be born to take advantage of the environment, and that environment isn't going to be there when the baby is born. So no, you're absolutely right. I, I and, and, and another thing that's interesting, so we actually have people out there with ketone meters and it's like a pissing contest.

[00:12:50] Oh, I'm 2.5 millimoles. You know, if I, I stopped eating, excuse me, I stopped eating at 6:00 PM [00:13:00] when I get up. In the morning around five five 30 I'm already producing a half a millimole. That's more than enough. Yeah. That's more than,

[00:13:09] Dr. Brian Kennedy, PhD: [00:13:09] I think these these time restricted feeding approaches or. Intermittent fasting approaches, I think are showing a lot of promise for a lifestyle change you can make that may promote healthy aging.

[00:13:19] And so, um, you know, I think that's a safe approach that may be a very effective for a lot of people.

[00:13:28] Carl Lanore: [00:13:28] Have you looked at alpha-ketoglutarate endogenous levels and people who are. In ketosis, and I mean in Catona, I don't mean Quito lysis where you're taking ketone salts. I mean, your body is actually responding to conditions by producing ketones.

[00:13:42] Do we see an upregulation and alphaketoglutarate.

[00:13:46] Dr. Brian Kennedy, PhD: [00:13:46] Well, that's a fascinating question. I don't think it's been looked at by anyone. We're just importantly, I think that for the, for the, you know, I, when I started thinking about supplements, let me take a step back and I'll come to that answer. Uh, I [00:14:00] feel like that the anti-aging industry in the supplement space is really large.

[00:14:05] And most of what's out there really hasn't been tested. Uh, we don't know the quality of the material and the product at the same time. However, I think there's a huge potential because, you know, it's still very hard to imagine how you're going to get a drug approved to treat aging because aging is not a disease

[00:14:24] Carl Lanore: [00:14:24] right.

[00:14:24] Dr. Brian Kennedy, PhD: [00:14:24] All right? So supplements have a lot of potential. And what we wanted to do is to really inject science back into this and say, this, don't give up on the supplement space, but this actually do some tests and try to validate what's working and what isn't working. Uh, and that's how we sort of came to this, uh, rejuvenate product.

[00:14:44] Um. We started in worms testing different combinations of natural products, and then took combinations that were successful and move those to mice, uh, showed that some of these could not only extend lifespan, but dramatically reduce frailty. So we would argue [00:15:00] they're compressing morbidity. Uh, and now they're available for humans to take, and we're continuing to test new combinations to try to improve the product as we go forward.

[00:15:10] Uh, I think what's important though now is we're also doing clinical studies and there are clinical studies being done in the U S that are sponsored by the company, uh, on the combinations. And we should know something in the next year. And then in Singapore, we're looking specifically at the life AKG product.

[00:15:28] Uh, w the time release AKG had been had because at that, for this study, I wanted to get more mechanistic and try to really understand specifically what a kid G is doing. And one of the things we need to do is look more carefully at AKG levels in humans under different conditions. And that's something that's is being planned.

[00:15:48] But we, we, I really can't answer your question at the moment.

[00:15:51] Carl Lanore: [00:15:51] Okay. So I just put the slide up of, uh, a mouse study. Uh, that you did. And the controls obviously look horrible, right? [00:16:00] They, they, they, they, they look like someone shaved them a little bit, but what were bad? A bad eyesight. No, I know, but I mean, and the ones on the left look, you know, they look very youthful.

[00:16:11] They have nice full coats and shiny, I would imagine their activity level was higher. One of the acid tests for me. Of you can call it biological age or an indicator of longevity is libido because we have one job on this planet and that's a creative offspring and then evacuated, and quite often the loss of libido is one of the earliest signs, the Canary in the mind that something is wrong.

[00:16:39] And so did the rodents who were receiving. The, uh, alphaketoglutarate on the left who looked so much younger. Did they also portray more youthful tendencies to mate, lordosis, anything like that? Well, we

[00:16:54] Dr. Brian Kennedy, PhD: [00:16:54] didn't test mating in that study, but we're now going back and doing that in Singapore. Uh, and I think there, [00:17:00] uh, one of the reasons we're doing it is that, you know, women, especially in Asia, are having less babies and they want to put more emphasis in work, and they actually, they want to, uh.

[00:17:10] Have a, have their first children much later in life. And so I, we've started thinking that some of these interventions that may slow aging may also prolong reproductive fertility in women. And so we're again, uh, starting in the mobilized studies in mice to see what's happening with the EKG and other longevity interventions, both in males and females to try to see if they are improving fertility with age.

[00:17:36] I think it's another fascinating question, but you have to look. Specifically about in the animals as they age. And we wanted to focus specifically on the frailty and the longevity Starbuck.

[00:17:46] Carl Lanore: [00:17:46] So talk about this study. I just put the title up. Alphaketoglutarate and endogenous metabolite extends lifespan and compresses morbidity in aging and aging mice.

[00:17:56] Talk about how was the study designed? First of all.

[00:18:00] [00:18:00] Dr. Brian Kennedy, PhD: [00:18:00] Yeah. So, uh, we wanted to start, uh, at the mice at 18 months of age with treatment. And I think that's critical because the way we imagined, um, doing human studies is not to give a 15 year old a longevity intervention. We want to start people that are in middle age that are healthy still, but maybe it risk these, uh, uh, not yet sick, but started a concern.

[00:18:26] But that would be sort of 50 year olds, 55 year olds, healthy 60 year olds, or even later. Uh, and so we chose a mice of the, uh, relatively the same age range. And then, uh, we wanted not just to look at survival. I mean, I still think that survival is the gold standard to measure aging in mice. Uh, however, it's critical to understand how healthy these mice are.

[00:18:48] And Susan Howard and colleagues published a frailty index about. Uh, six or seven years ago now that correlate to the human frailty indices that are done. [00:19:00] Uh, it measures about 31 different components of frailty. And what we like about it is that it's really almost. Almost noninvasive. We're not like anesthetize in these mice and doing micro CTS and things like that, which stressed them out and shortened their lifespan.

[00:19:16] Sample observational studies, Coke condition, hair color, kyphosis, which is curvature of the spine and it, there's 31 total things. And when you measure all of these and look at the change over time, you get a composite change in the frailty of the

[00:19:31] Carl Lanore: [00:19:31] animal.

[00:19:32] Dr. Brian Kennedy, PhD: [00:19:32] And what we were surprised to see is that the. AKG or the calcium making G could really reduce that frailty.

[00:19:38] So it had a bigger effect on reducing frailty than it did on survival. And that's why we argued for compress morbidity. We're really seeing that the animals stay healthy for a very, very long time. And then at the very end, they just kind of crash and burn. Uh, and, uh, I think that's kind of what we want to do.

[00:19:55] We want to be healthy as long as possible and have a limited period of. Morbidity at the [00:20:00] end.

[00:20:00] Carl Lanore: [00:20:00] When we talk about that on the show all the time, the sick aging phenotype, which is common today, you know, I don't want to live to be 90 and spend the last 20 years of my life, uh, in a wheelchair, in a diaper, facing the wall in an institution.

[00:20:14] I want to die. I want people to say, Oh, at 90 years old, did you hear Carl Lenore Dodd? He was running for the bus, or he was at the gym trainer. I don't, I don't want to, I don't want to just fade away in some institution. So that speaks to the frailty mechanism, doesn't it?

[00:20:29] Dr. Brian Kennedy, PhD: [00:20:29] Absolutely. And it speaks to the whole concept of aging research.

[00:20:32] You know, the, the idea that we need to stop doing sick care and start doing healthcare for a change right now, we are very bad at preventative medicine, especially in the U S there are very good at telling people how to have a healthy lifestyle. It's getting better, but not very slowly. Uh, and typically people are go to the doctor until they're sick, and then they have some complex chronic condition.

[00:20:53] It's hard to treat. And so we spend more and more money training them. And, and often we don't bring them back to health. [00:21:00] And so we keep, we keep them alive longer where we keep 'em sick longer. And. Look if I get sick, I want to be treated too. I'm not against treating disease, but I'd much rather just not get the disease in the first place.

[00:21:11] And that's really what aging research is about. It's how do we develop interventions that keep people healthy longer and keep them disease free and keep them functional longer. And it's not just about preventing disease. We want to, we want you to be able to catch that bus when you're running.

[00:21:27] Carl Lanore: [00:21:27] Correct.

[00:21:28] So the nervous system has become a big focus of mine. Um, and, and because a lot of the, uh, a lot of the things that we associate with advanced aging, slowing down, you know, gate changes, balance changes, uh, digestive changes, organs start to, uh, function at lower levels. A lot of them can be traced back to the wire harness.

[00:21:57] You know, if you, if have any of us, I had a, I had a [00:22:00] 60. A seven triumph GT and it had a horrible problem with the wire harness that when I made a hard left turn, my headlights would blink. You know? And that kind of happens. Yeah. That kind of happens to the human body over time. You know, we, there's D myelination, there's small fiber degradation.

[00:22:21] Uh, we don't walk as well. So talk about is there any evidence in the road and study that, that the nervous system was preserved. Uh,

[00:22:30] Dr. Brian Kennedy, PhD: [00:22:30] again, I, I, we tried not to be terribly invasive with these mice because we wanted to focus on the frailty and the survival. What we're doing now or is going back and treating advice with the calcium AKG and then dissecting there after a period of treatment and beginning to look at it in much more detail in specific tissues.

[00:22:51] And obviously the brain is somewhere we want to focus. And also on . Uh, neuromuscular junctions because it has a big impact on muscle function [00:23:00] with age. Um. There's reason to believe that AKG is helping the muscle. Uh, so that's intriguing it. And one of the things that's really come up with brain aging that people were thinking about a decade ago is that there's a lot of senescence in the brain.

[00:23:15] Uh, the, uh, astrocytes and glial cells particularly have a tendency to become senescent, and then they secrete inflammatory factors that are probably dramatically impairing the neurons function. So, uh, we've seen, uh, reasonable. Pretty good at, well, strong evidence that AKG isn't the anti-inflammatory. And I think a pretty strong evidence as well, that it can block the SAS that senescent cells have.

[00:23:41] So the secretory profile that these senescent cells have that promote inflammation seems to be blocked by AKG. So, um. There's reason to believe we're going to see beneficial effects of the brain based on those two observations, but we really need to go in and do the histology and

[00:23:57] Carl Lanore: [00:23:57] verify that. I want, I want to put this up for the [00:24:00] listeners because there is a product called rejuvenate and it's for men and women, right?

[00:24:05] There's this, a different one is for men and one is for women, and so I was lucky enough to receive a bottle of each one for me and one for Elisa. As well as blood tests. You know, Watman blotters I can tell them that. Blood tests to evaluate my, um, my, my, uh, biological age, I would imagine. What, what is the blood test going to look at when I, when I do my blood.

[00:24:33] Dr. Brian Kennedy, PhD: [00:24:33] So survivor test, you're even luckier. So, um, so it's looking at methylation of certain sites in your genome. So I would say it's a modified methylation that, uh, this company culture, we looks at it and they chosen specific methylation sites. So that they don't have to look at the whole genome. They can look specifically at a limited number of sites, and that makes it easier to do the analysis and saliva.

[00:24:58] So you have cells in DNA and your [00:25:00] saliva is just harder to get as much of that material as you can get from blood. But what's great about it is you can send out an Apple up with a piece of paper and it's very easy for people to put some saliva on that paper and mail it back in. So it's stable. When she said today.

[00:25:16] And so we're excited about that. I say because it's much more user friendly for the consumer. You can predict your biologic agent, but it's predicted from a more limited set of, uh, methylation sites in the genome.

[00:25:30] Carl Lanore: [00:25:30] Okay. I, I, we have a comment I'm going to put up before we take off first break, but I wanted to let the audience know that, uh, my audience is getting a ridiculously reduced price on this product.

[00:25:41] If they go to get rejuvenate.com if they use the code SHR. By using the get rejuvenate link, you will re you be taken to a page where you already have $50 off the product. This is unheard of. This is, this is not an index by Google page. This is just for my audience. On top of [00:26:00] that, the folks, they were gracious enough to say, the code SHR saves you another $10.

[00:26:05] It's $60 off of your first bottle and you can try it. Uh, I am excited. I'm excited because, um. I worked on a vitamin D supplement many years ago and I wanted people to test before and after because I wanted to show that my vitamin D supplement work, 99.99% of the products supplements that people buy today.

[00:26:31] First of all, they don't even know if they're deficient. Cause they didn't test and they don't even know if the supplements working. Of course they didn't test. So this is a supplement that you can use and you can test before and after you use it and determine whether or not it's working for you. Which in my humble opinion, in the vast sea of supplement companies out there is a very noble approach.

[00:26:54] So the folks at get rejuvenate sent me. The analysis so I [00:27:00] can do before and they're going to send me to after. After I get through my first bottle, you think I'll actually see something in just one bottle. Brian,

[00:27:11] Dr. Brian Kennedy, PhD: [00:27:11] I'm not sure you'll see something that quickly. I mean, in the rice, we're seeing stuff at three to four months in, and we have a lot of people, uh, providing, uh, anecdotal data and that are taking it in.

[00:27:22] And I would say that, uh, maybe a three month timeframe is something that's more reasonable to see differences. Um, yeah, we're excited about a lot of the anecdotal findings that people have. And I just hope that we can validate that in the clinical studies where the controls and everything, because I think it'll be a really striking set of findings if we can, if it proves out in a, in a more controlled study, people seem to report more energy.

[00:27:51] Um, some people reporting dark hair coming back, um, which is something we saw in the mice. Uh, and, uh, but again, these are individual [00:28:00] reports and

[00:28:01] Carl Lanore: [00:28:01] that'll save me a lot of money on hair dye.

[00:28:05] Dr. Brian Kennedy, PhD: [00:28:05] I think one of the things we want to do at this company, and certainly the research in my lab, is to, let's put the science and the validation behind these supplement approaches.

[00:28:15] And, uh, so we're doing, we're going all out to try to, uh, with the resources we have to try to validate that these things are working.

[00:28:23] Carl Lanore: [00:28:23] So, um, still, yo just posted. Uh, about a study. Developmental investigations have shown that AKG greatly extends lifespan, but reduces also for sun. Didn't , which I guess is fertility and fruit flies.

[00:28:41] So what, what are we, is it because it's fruit flies? Do we, that's why he said did the, did the libido, you know, the, the, the want, the desire mate occur in the rodents. What, what about that one there though? With the fruit flies?

[00:28:55] Dr. Brian Kennedy, PhD: [00:28:55] Um, I don't know that specific study. I think that the [00:29:00] studies that have been looked at in mammals, uh, at the dosing levels we're looking at, there's no reports of any loss of fecundity.

[00:29:06] Uh, again, we have to go and look at that specifically and qualitatively in the studies that we're doing now. But I would not. Expected the doses that we have, you would see any

[00:29:19] Carl Lanore: [00:29:19] visit. Here's an easy question, right? If we apply a little critical thinking, right? So if levels of AKG endogenously a higher when we're young and we also have higher libido when we're young, so clearly endogenous AKG isn't lowering libido if it's higher when we're young and it's lower when we're old and libido is higher when we're young and it's lower when we're older.

[00:29:45] Dr. Brian Kennedy, PhD: [00:29:45] Well that, that's a, that's a reasonable hypothesis. But that doesn't mean, I mean, theoretically, if you take anything to two high levels that can have harmful impacts. So, uh, I, I don't think, however, we're, we're dramatically increasing [00:30:00] the levels above youthful, uh, levels of AKG. What we're really trying to do is restore the loss levels that are happening with age.

[00:30:07] And so. You know, the people in their forties and fifties we're taking this, we're certainly getting no reports of reduced libido. I think that would be something we

[00:30:19] Carl Lanore: [00:30:19] think people would tell you about. Doug Lynch is the guy who enabled me to get a, some of the product, and he is saying people are different, but the average time for response is four to six months.

[00:30:32] So in Florida, you know, and that's reasonable because in four to six months, if you don't see anything, then you stop buying it. You know, and maybe look to some other reason why you're not feeling well.

[00:30:42] Dr. Brian Kennedy, PhD: [00:30:42] Yeah. I mean it's, it takes time to restore changes that are happening with age and, and so I think they expect to see something in the first month is optimistic.

[00:30:53] Carl Lanore: [00:30:53] Yeah. I want to take our first commercial break. I've got lots more questions. We're talking with Dr. Brian Kennedy. Very, very, [00:31:00] I got to tell you, I'm so excited to have you on the show because your body of work in the area of aging, uh, you really top of the food chain in the silo. And I, I respect your, your, your opinion, uh, greatly as a result of that.

[00:31:14] So this is really a lot of fun. We're going to take one quick commercial break. When we come back, we'll have more of superhuman radio. Stay tuned. We shall return and we'll get all of your questions answered. I promise. Stay with us.

[00:31:27] Dr. Brian Kennedy, PhD: [00:31:27] This

[00:31:28] Carl Lanore: [00:31:28] is the superhuman channel evolution just got kicked up a notch.

[00:31:35] Welcome back. We're talking with Dr. Brian Kennedy about a unique molecule molecule called alphaketoglutarate and its effect on aging, longevity, and health span, uh, in rodents. It looks really good. So quick question. And then we've got some comments and questions we're going to put up. Um, so since the supplement was introduced at the equivalent [00:32:00] biologic human age of around 50 years old to the rodents, did the rodents that got the supplement, did they just stop aging per se and stay where they were?

[00:32:10] Or did they actually start to develop more youthful, observable characteristics?

[00:32:18] Dr. Brian Kennedy, PhD: [00:32:18] Uh, some of both. Uh, and part of that is the time that we started the, you know, at 18 months, some of these frailty measures are not observable yet. They don't start occurring until a little bit later. Uh, but a lot of the mice had gray hair and had lost their hair by 18 months.

[00:32:32] And actually we saw a hair get restored and hitting guy hair turned back to black. So. Uh, there's a lot of positive effects on skin condition, on, on hair and these animals. And, and, uh, as I said, we're getting anecdotal data that, that may be happening in humans as well. So, uh, I think that's one case where we might be seeing reversal.

[00:32:55] Carl Lanore: [00:32:55] So a Mark Morrison said, I dropped my biological age by seven [00:33:00] years and under four months with rejuvenate, I plan on retesting again after seven months. Um. We, okay. So if I see my biological age change on a test, does that necessarily mean that I feel better? I notice anything, or not necessarily.

[00:33:18] Dr. Brian Kennedy, PhD: [00:33:18] I'd hope you'd feel better.

[00:33:20] I, you know, I think one other thing that you might find is that when you do exercise, you might find it, it's easier to do or you can do it better. We've had some reports of that as well. Um, a lot of people report feeling better. I think that the challenge we have with that is that it's a, um, very, uh,

[00:33:41] Carl Lanore: [00:33:41] uh,

[00:33:42] Dr. Brian Kennedy, PhD: [00:33:42] uh, one thing that, um.

[00:33:45] So that's why we like this methylation measure because it's a, it's a discreet measure that we can see how that changes. Another thing that we're looking a lot at in the clinical studies is inflammatory factors. The data with CRP and some of these other inflammatory [00:34:00] markers looks quite good. Uh, when we've serially tested in people that have been taking the, the Rejuven, uh, product, and, uh, we hope we can recapitulate that in the control studies.

[00:34:11] Carl Lanore: [00:34:11] So it's interesting because right now we have a. Uh, population here in the United States. And I don't know if it's like this in Singapore or abroad anywhere else that you, you keep tabs on, but, um, neuro degeneration is a big problem. Sensory neurodegeneration shows up most often because people notice it as neuropathies and neurologists.

[00:34:33] And now we know it's not diabetic in nature because we have people who have stable blood sugar and they're not obese. They don't have a lot of visceral fat, and they're getting numb in their hands, in their legs. And we know, we know that it's small fiber related, so small fiber degradation because of blood flow.

[00:34:53] So the blood flow is cut off to the small fiber, the small fiber Wilton and dies, and they're seeing that the [00:35:00] blood flow. Restriction is the result of inflammation of these very small micro vessels. Do you think that this would have an application if it has that profound of effect on, on inflammatory response in the bombing?

[00:35:14] You know,

[00:35:15] Dr. Brian Kennedy, PhD: [00:35:15] they don't really call it aging anymore. They call it InflammaDry.

[00:35:18] Carl Lanore: [00:35:18] Yeah, I know, right?

[00:35:21] Dr. Brian Kennedy, PhD: [00:35:21] Claudio Francesco coined the fed term. I think that there's. Hard to find a component of aging that isn't influenced in one way or another by inflammation. So anti inflammatory components are likely to have beneficial effects.

[00:35:37] Now, let me be clear. Um. You need inflammation at times. You know, you need an acute inflammatory response when you get an infection. Everybody in Asia where I am, is afraid of Corona virus right now. You need that implement inflammatory response to deal with it. Uh, the problem is that the levels of chronic inflammation are creeping up as we get older.

[00:35:58] And so. The [00:36:00] inflammatory response is on all the time, and that's what's driving a lot of these age related pathology. So keeping that chronic response down in a way that still allows you to turn that information when you need it is really what we're aiming for.

[00:36:12] Carl Lanore: [00:36:12] And I think

[00:36:13] Dr. Brian Kennedy, PhD: [00:36:13] that's true for a lot of aging pathways.

[00:36:15] If I can. Yeah, I diverged. You know, when you look at the Tor pathway, for example, it's not about turning the Tor pathway down. I think as much as is suppressing the changes that are happening with age. So again, tore needs to be off when you're fasting, when you're healthy, uh, and when you have a big meal or you cut your skin, and in that region, you need to turn on the Tor pathway to cause proliferation and, and, uh, and, and repair the damage.

[00:36:42] Um, the problem is that instead, especially in adult STEM cell populations, we and others have shown that Tor signaling is going up with age and it's getting turned down when it shouldn't be turned on. The result of that is that it's driving loss of adult STEM cells. And so rapid wise. We, [00:37:00] we're not giving super high doses that suppress the ability to activate chore after a meal.

[00:37:05] What we're largely doing is restoring that dynamic range that you need and they use

[00:37:11] Carl Lanore: [00:37:11] isolation. And so there's so many good studies that show that there's a Bazell lead of level of autophagy, and then there's spikes in autophagy and that bays a level is very, very important as well. And that seems to get worse and worse and worse with age.

[00:37:25] So the amplitude of the spike becomes less and less and less. And, um, I, so I was texting with the Misha, uh, black is cloning about a month ago and I said, Dr. Black is Goloni, uh, you know, cause I, I, uh, I train hard. I'm 61 years old. Muscle is really important to me. I believe that muscle is metabolic currency and you fare better with muscle.

[00:37:47] And I know this, this product and this product AIDS in muscle. We're going to talk about that in a minute. And so. I said to him, Misha, I said, if I, if I take, cause I take rapamycin twice a month, six milligrams. And the half [00:38:00] life of rap bison is approximately three days, so it actually affects a M Tor for three days.

[00:38:06] I said, but if I'm eating 250 grams of protein, I'm getting high leucine. I'm getting a big impulse to turn MTR on. It. Could the wrap up ice and actually keep em tore turned off because you know, it's like the net effect. If, if, if the leucine is this and the  and is this, I'm going to turn MTR on. He said, you know, no one's looked at that.

[00:38:28] Dr. Brian Kennedy, PhD: [00:38:28] To my knowledge, no

[00:38:29] Carl Lanore: [00:38:29] one's like, so we don't even know, like all these people that are out there taking daily Metformin, but they eat in 250 grams of protein a day. The driver of the protein may actually nullify the effects of, of the, uh, uh, of the, uh, uh, drug.

[00:38:46] Dr. Brian Kennedy, PhD: [00:38:46] Yeah. And I think that's one reason we need to start looking at combinations of interventions a lot more.

[00:38:51] I mean, we've been doing this with these supplements, and there are times when we find two things that work on their own, and then when you combine them together, you don't get a [00:39:00] benefit anymore. And I can't always predict what they are based on the knowledge of those molecules. So yeah. Well, people that are out there doing lots of different things.

[00:39:08] You know, I, I, I, first of all, I want the people to do safe things. Uh, but, but on top of that, if you start combining them together, it's a little bit unknown what's going to happen there. And that, that goes with diet plus supplements as well as,

[00:39:24] Carl Lanore: [00:39:24] and that's why I actually extend my time restricted. Feeding period.

[00:39:30] The three days after I take my six milligrams of rapid myosin. So I don't want to compete with it. I actually cut my protein back. I cut my calories back on purpose. Okay. So when we talk about inflammation, we're talking about the immune system. Cause the inflammation is the army of the immune system. It gets deployed.

[00:39:48] And by the way, the analogy I love to use for chronic inflammation and help the inflammation is you've got a gas stove and you cook eggs with it. The difference between that use of fire and your house is [00:40:00] on fire, is the example I like to give for a healthy inflammatory response and chronic inflammation.

[00:40:04] But when we talk about inflammation. We're talking about the immune system caused inflammation is the army of the immune system. When we talk about the immune system, we talk about the gut. Now we know there's lots of interest on things that seem to increase and decrease what we think right now, and we still don't really know what a bad actors in the gut, what a good actors in the gut.

[00:40:25] Do we see any changes in the microbiome, diversity or anything at all? When we start to supplement with, uh, with AKG. That's the

[00:40:36] Dr. Brian Kennedy, PhD: [00:40:36] question we're trying to ask right now. It's been shown in some published studies though, that there are microbiome changes in, and we think that there are a significant component of the effect could be through the microbiome, because when you take label, they EKG and put it in the mouse and see where it goes, uh, you know, you see a lot of it in the God.

[00:40:55] You see it in the small intestine is stomach and the liver, but we're not seeing it. [00:41:00] Uh, persist, uh, in a lot of other tissues. And that suggests that the proximal effects, uh, maybe in those immediate tissues, either in the bacteria, in the gut or in the intestinal cells or in the liver. Uh, but when you look downstream and you look at, you know, fiberblast or muscle cells, we're seeing longterm beneficial changes.

[00:41:20] So that may suggest that there's a proximal effect on, on, on either the bacteria in your gut or the. The intestinal cells, and that those metabolic changes that are happening are then protecting other tissues in the body. Secondarily.

[00:41:35] Carl Lanore: [00:41:35] Um, I want to, I want to put this up again real quick. For those of you just tuning in to the interview, uh, you can actually go to get rejuvenate.com.

[00:41:47] Use the code SHR. I, I thought it was an additional $10 off. I tested the . I tested the coupon code earlier, but the commercial I'm running says 10% off. I'm going to have to check that and correct one or the other, but you get an [00:42:00] additional savings above and beyond an already super reduced price to my audience, only get rejuven.com is just for this audience.

[00:42:11] It's not an index by Google, you won't get this deal. You're getting $50 off the price, plus you're going to get an additional either $10 a 10% off when you use the code SHR so that you can try this for yourself. So check that out. We're going to take one quick commercial break. When we come back, I want to talk about muscle.

[00:42:29] I want to talk about, because that's something very sexy to my audience. We are all about gaining muscle, gaining strength with play, which plays right into frailty. You know, when we, when we talk about that, when we come back, we'll get to talk about that. Stay tuned. We'll be right back. This is the superhuman channel where we use oxygen for the power of good.

[00:42:51] Welcome back. We have a question from Damian Perez. We're going to ask in just a minute. So Damien, sit tight. Um, let's talk [00:43:00] about muscle. You know, muscles really sexy. I want to stay as muscular and as strong as I can. In fact. After you leave the show, I'm going to be talking about how my training is changing because I got a real wake up call the other day when I had blood work done.

[00:43:15] And uh, my, uh, pro BNP, so, so the scale of pro BMP was like one to 14 and my was 460. And they said, Oh, you've got congestive heart failure. I says, no, I don't. I train really hard. And so, yo, Val Salba, there's a lot of pressure in my heart, and so I've had to take a few days off to get my blood tested again, but, and I'm going to talk about my training later, later in the show.

[00:43:37] But, um, what about muscle? How does AKG influence a new muscle acquisition and protein synthetic response or, you know, avoiding, uh, developing sarcopenia.

[00:43:51] Dr. Brian Kennedy, PhD: [00:43:51] Yeah. I think, uh, you know, we saw a reduction in frailty and that's associated with improved muscle function. What are the reasons you see the don't see the [00:44:00] kyphosis in these mice as they get older is because their muscle tone is maintained better.

[00:44:05] And that's one of the things that keeps them from giving that curved spine. So our indications are that we're. Uh, reducing the onset of certainly measures of sarcopenia. Now we, again, we didn't go in and take sections of these mikes, and that's the next step is to look histologically at the muscle and see what's happening.

[00:44:23] Um, the. I just going back to what you were saying though, I think muscle mass is really important. I mean, especially with things like diabetes, if you look at people at the same level of obesity, if they have a higher muscle mass, they're much more protected and muscles are big consumers of energy. So if you're having excess energy and over nutrition, you also a good way to get rid of that excess energy.

[00:44:48] So I'm, I, I'm very supportive of the idea of, especially through exercise, building muscle mass.

[00:44:55] Carl Lanore: [00:44:55] Yeah. And, but, but this supports the protein synthetic response, does it not? I mean, there's, [00:45:00] the AKG actually kind of helps along because, you know, you're looking at, you're looking at energy, you're looking at the Krebs cycle, you're looking at, you know, all this sort of stuff.

[00:45:09] And, and, you know, it takes energy to remodel tissue. Absolutely.

[00:45:13] Dr. Brian Kennedy, PhD: [00:45:13] Uh, you know, I think that's certainly a possibility and we can't point to that directly at this stage, but it's certainly a possibility. It's muscle builders have taken AKG for a long time, usually in combination with amino acids after heavy workouts.

[00:45:27] To try to increase their muscle mass accumulation. Uh, we have, uh, tested that directly and that they take a different way than we suggest, uh, through the, through the rejuvenate, which is a two tablet, lower dose every day. So I don't know how the dosing we're going to do is, is affecting the acquisition of muscle mass.

[00:45:48] It's an interesting question. Um, and, uh, you know, one thing we should do is, uh, do studies where we actually exercise the mice directly. And see if they perform better or gain muscle [00:46:00] mass quicker when, when they're on the AKG too. That's an interesting hypothesis. We don't know the answer. Interesting.

[00:46:05] Carl Lanore: [00:46:05] So I'm talking about dosing.

[00:46:09] The doses used in the road and study that achieved these results is a single dose, the human equivalent that. I would be taking or someone who buys rejuvenate would be taking to achieve these results. Cause quite often scientific papers have published but supplements come out and they're way under dosed.

[00:46:31] From what was used in, in the science.

[00:46:34] Dr. Brian Kennedy, PhD: [00:46:34] Yeah. We're not way under dose. Uh, we're a little bit less, but, and I think it's a little bit hard to calculate because the way we had done the mouse studies is by putting AKG in the food. Uh, so it's dependent on how much food the Miocene, how much AKG they get. And there's a reason for doing that.

[00:46:52] It's. It's very hard to do oral Gabon edge on the mice when you're doing it every day for, you know, it's 15 [00:47:00] months. The mice tend to get tired of that. So. And IP dosing where you injected is not that easy either. So delivering it to the food or the water as a, as a much easier way in longterm studies, but it also makes it a little bit harder to quit liberate it, you know, in studies at 750 milligrams a day.

[00:47:17] We wanted to make sure we're safe and there are clinical studies out there, much higher doses that show safety with EKG. And we also have a time released. Version, so that it's slowly released in the body throughout a long period of time after you take the tablets. And, uh, that may be very effective because of it.

[00:47:36] It gets turned over relatively quickly as it's released and stuff. It's been slowly released

[00:47:41] Carl Lanore: [00:47:41] during that

[00:47:42] Dr. Brian Kennedy, PhD: [00:47:42] time. The effect may be better. So, um. Yeah. I can't say it's exactly equivalent dosing, but we chose a safe dose. Certainly we think sufficient .

[00:47:52] Carl Lanore: [00:47:52] I'm currently injecting 25 milligrams subcutaneously forte, four days a week of NAD.

[00:47:59] Plus [00:48:00] I kind of feel like NAD plus and AKG may have some sort of synergistic relationship. Maybe.

[00:48:07] Dr. Brian Kennedy, PhD: [00:48:07] That's something that is a very interesting question and we don't know all the answers to that yet. Uh, they both are very similar in the sense that both of those molecules go down with days. They both participate in hundreds of metabolic reactions in the cell.

[00:48:22] They compliment each other in terms of the Krebs cycle in certain ways. Uh, and so, uh. Whether they do similar things or are, are, do different things in that additive effects is a very interesting question right now. I think that, you know, looking at ways to supplement NAD through in our, in NMN, uh, and the AKG, those are two of the most promising strategies right now.

[00:48:45] And at least in the mouse models, we're very happy with what AKG is doing. Uh, but it would be interesting to see if there. Acting together.

[00:48:55] Carl Lanore: [00:48:55] So Damian Perez says, are there any restrictions for DNA test based on the state you [00:49:00] live in? I know New York has Tyler's restrictions. I think new York's. The restrictions on testing has to do with prescribing drugs like a hormone replacement therapy.

[00:49:11] I don't think that 23 and me can't market into New York and, and the, the tests that you guys are doing, you're just looking for methylation components right?

[00:49:20] Dr. Brian Kennedy, PhD: [00:49:20] Yeah. Yeah, I would think that's not a problem, but I, I'm honestly not an expert on that. I'm sure if you send an email to the website, they can give you the answer on that, but I don't think there's any problem with specific States in the U S okay.

[00:49:35] Carl Lanore: [00:49:35] Again, the website is get rejuvenate.com if you use the coupon code. SHR you'll save an additional amount. I'm not sure if it's $10 or 10% but either way, an already reduced price for my audience of $50 for your first bottle so that you can get into this pretty quickly and pretty easily and, and try and see [00:50:00] for yourself.

[00:50:01] Thanks so much. I, you know, I didn't realize it was 1:00 AM in the morning. I thought it was like 10 30 at night. So thank you very much. Uh, and I'm sorry for how crappy you're gonna feel tomorrow.

[00:50:11] Dr. Brian Kennedy, PhD: [00:50:11] Nah, I'll be fine. Don't worry. You can come here.

[00:50:14] Carl Lanore: [00:50:14] Do you take it? I forgot to ask you. How long have you been

[00:50:18] Dr. Brian Kennedy, PhD: [00:50:18] taking it?

[00:50:19] About nine months now. So

[00:50:22] Carl Lanore: [00:50:22] you notice anything or you don't want to say. Uh,

[00:50:25] Dr. Brian Kennedy, PhD: [00:50:25] I certainly notice things. People are telling me my hair is getting darker. I don't, I have done no controls on that. The, uh, I, I do feel like my exercise is getting easier as well. But again, you know, I'm very sensitive to this, uh, this kind of thing.

[00:50:41] And that's why we really want to do these clinical studies, cause I believe it's working, but I want to fail, be able to validate that.

[00:50:48] Carl Lanore: [00:50:48] So you, you do test your methylation and have you tested it since you've been taking it?

[00:50:52] Dr. Brian Kennedy, PhD: [00:50:52] Actually, I haven't tested a followup up.

[00:50:55] Carl Lanore: [00:50:55] Yeah. What was, we got to find out what your biological age looks like.

[00:50:58] Come on doc,

[00:51:00] [00:51:00] Dr. Brian Kennedy, PhD: [00:51:00] but I don't know where it is now.

[00:51:02] Carl Lanore: [00:51:02] So you like the, you like the mechanic who's car doesn't run. You know what I mean? You gotta. You gotta give us this information.

[00:51:08] Dr. Brian Kennedy, PhD: [00:51:08] Everyone lives forever. And my family, I told you about my mother. Both my grandmothers live to a hundred or one 99 one one Oh one so it's a.

[00:51:16] Uh, we, we've got lucky jeans, I guess, at least for longevity.

[00:51:20] Carl Lanore: [00:51:20] It's interesting because the Kennedy name in general, I mean, you know, Eunice, uh, uh, Shriver Kennedy or whatever. I mean, they tend to, they do live long lives. Those that aren't, aren't met with accidents and stuff like that. I mean, but it's, it's

[00:51:36] Dr. Brian Kennedy, PhD: [00:51:36] I'm not directly related a full disclosure, but you know, there, there may be something going on in everybody in some level that I know like this related, they were making some something going on.

[00:51:47] Carl Lanore: [00:51:47] I look, thanks for being with us. Uh, we'll talk to you again soon. I'm sure we're going to take one quick.

[00:51:52] Commercial break, and when we come back, you're going to be subjected to listening to me. Talk about me. A favorite [00:52:00] subjects. This is the superhuman channel evolution. Just got kicked up a notch.

[00:52:11] Welcome back. So I kind of alluded to this yesterday. I posted a bunch of studies that show, um, markers typically associated with. Poor health that are elevated in athletic types, but at the same time, I gotta I gotta think about myself. So my pro BNP, so probian P is a protein that's produced by the heart when it's struggling.

[00:52:39] The reason that this is a marker for heart failure is because most people are sitting down all day long. And they developed this protein because the heart is having trouble. In my case, I know what it is. You know, Val Salva moving heavy weight, and you know, [00:53:00] I don't think I'm the smartest guy in the world when it comes to managing myself.

[00:53:06] I'm really good at telling people what to do, but I'm really bad at following my own advice. So, you know, since I've been training, I look, when I had the foot surgery in 2018 I didn't stop training. I just couldn't train legs, or I just trained the right leg. And upper body. I've really never taken any lengthy time off since 2002.

[00:53:25] Um, I'm not suggesting I'm going to take any lengthy time off, but what I, what I am doing is literally challenging my body every day and pushing it to limits that it's really not prepared for that. That's the key here. So in 2018 because of my foot surgeries, I, I. Well, he's doing some bicycle cardio, but then that fell apart and I really wasn't doing any cardio.

[00:53:50] And the truth is, I haven't really been doing cardio since 2018 here it is, the beginning of 2020 and we've talked about this on the show, [00:54:00] the changes in East centric versus concentric hypertrophy of the heart, you know, uh, all I'm doing is lifting. So all I'm doing is training this part. I'm not doing any cardio, so I'm not training this part.

[00:54:14] And I'm showing signs of that. Um, the range for pro BNP is like one to 14, and mine was like 400 and something, which if I really had congestive heart failure, that would be dead. I don't have congestive heart failure, but that makes, begs to question, what am I doing? Why am I making my heart work so hard?

[00:54:38] And it's not that I need to train. Less intense, but I need to start making cardio more important than lifting right now. When I first started this journey at 39 years old, when I was diagnosed with my problems and I was 330 pounds and I was diabetic and my dyslipidemic and all of this [00:55:00] stuff, all I did in the beginning, I bought a bicycle.

[00:55:04] I started riding. And I started walking around the neighborhood and then I slowly started to ride my bicycle to a gym, but I wasn't doing any advanced lifting like I'm doing now. I went in like the average person or just pushed weight, you know, really didn't know I did this, did that, did that. But I didn't leave the gym feeling like I just crushed myself like I do now.

[00:55:25] And I have for the past, close to 20 years. I need to go back to the basics. I need to go back. So what happened was. Over the course of years, I built up layer by layer strata by strata on the previous level of strength and conditioning and cardio was always part of it. I either did cardio, uh, before, after training, or I did it on a separate day, but I, I, and when I lived in Arizona, I walked everywhere.

[00:55:57] I walked to the gym, I walked back. I [00:56:00] remember I walked to the gym, train legs, and then walk home. My legs felt fantastic. The next day. Probably the from the walking, but the point is there was an organic progression in my strength and my conditioning that allowed me to become stronger and stronger and handle more weight and do all the things that I wanted to do.

[00:56:18] Then in 2018 I get derailed. In 2019 I just come back and I want to jump right back in over here, and I did, and the reality is that was a very stupid thing to do. So now. In the beginning of 2020 I need to go back to basics. So right now, three days a week is my training and here's how it's going to go.

[00:56:39] Cardio, two days, one day lifting. And I'm not going to lift with the intensity that I have. Then I'm going to start down lower. I need to, you know, it's like if you're driving a stick shift car, you don't try to start off in third, you start off in first, you gradually accelerate until it comes time that you have to [00:57:00] shift to second.

[00:57:00] And so on. What I've effectively done is I've started off in fourth so now I've got to go back and downshift and go back to first gear and stay there for a while, and it's the hardest thing in the world for me. You have no idea. In the mornings I'm getting up and I'm walking around the neighborhood and I want to go to the gym.

[00:57:17] I want to go push, I want to press, I want to pull, and I have to tell myself, no, there'll be time for that. I'm just going to lift two days a week right now. And I'm not going to do anything intense, no more static holds, no more negatives, which I've been doing. I mean, I do all these advanced things. I'm not ready for it and I'm disrespecting the process.

[00:57:40] I'm disrespecting the process by thinking that just because I've been strong before that I can just go back in there and pick up where I left off. This is a very stupid thing to do and I'm stupid for doing it. So now I go back, I'm going to start walking. That's going to be my [00:58:00] priority and that's it.

[00:58:02] And I may do that for a few months, and when I feel ready, then I may start lifting a little bit heavier, but I'm going to take it very, very slow this time because what I've done to myself, look, if my pro BMP is that high, maybe my heart's just not really ready for that level of work. Now I have plenty of studies.

[00:58:24] I put them up from yesterday show. You can go click them. That show pro BMP and athletes is always elevated after strenuous exercise. And that's what happened to me. I had blood work done the following morning after a three day every day, full body giant sets and everything else, uh, three days in a row.

[00:58:45] By the third day I'm crushed. I'm over-trained and then the next morning I had blood work done and sure, it looks like I have congestive heart failure. Um, there was some other things that were out of whack too. My creatinine levels were high. Well, I supplement with creatine. I'm [00:59:00] breaking down muscle. Of course they're going to be high, so I'm taking off a few days completely going to have my blood work done.

[00:59:05] Again, I'm sure I'll pass with flying colors, but that's a wake up call to me for some reason, I think that I can get by doing the things. That I would not tell other people to do, and that's really a problem for me. How about VFR training? Yes. Yes. I'm going to exclusively be doing BFR training on the two days I lift, so I'm going to be using less weight and I'm even walking with my BFR bands to increase.

[00:59:41] Uh, the, the, the blood, uh, restriction in the legs while I'm training to actually give me more of a pump and it works great. I think everybody should put BFR bands on and walk it the best way. It's like a squat session, but without all the weight on your back. Uh, and actually BFR bands will actually reduce, [01:00:00] um, excuse me, the pressure on the heart.

[01:00:03] So there's that as well. But yes, Holly, you're right. I am. That's exactly what I'm doing. I'm going to just do strictly walking and BFR type exercises for the next few months. I'm going to focus on leaning back out again and just feeling good because after three days of continuous training, I sleep like crap.

[01:00:25] That night, that third night, I sleep horrible. Of course, I'm literally inviting. Overtraining, and even though I'm eating enough calories at my age, it doesn't work the same as if I was 30 or 40 so this is a wake up call for me. Let it be a wake up call for you. Downshift once in a while. Don't be afraid you're going to lose your gains.

[01:00:47] I haven't lost any muscle the past four days that I've taken off. I, it's not like as though you're going to shrink and shrivel up. And the truth of the matter is I could probably maintain this muscle, even continue to grow more muscle by training two days a [01:01:00] week, whole body. And walking more, and I'm going to start focusing on conditioning more than strength.

[01:01:07] So if you're like me and you tend to overdo everything you ask Alisa, I overdo everything. I do nothing to moderation, which is not a good thing. It'd probably be my demise someday. But if you're like me, uh, think about downshifting for awhile and allowing your body to enjoy itself. Uh, before you start crushing it again.

[01:01:32] And that's really the, the message I want to give everybody today. Uh, because, um, I, I don't wanna I don't want a stroke. I don't want to have a heart attack. I don't want to do any of these stupid things just to prove that I'm strong. I'm not willing. I, I've, I've lifted the weight, I've, I've done the things, I've hit the PRS.

[01:01:49] I'm very proud of the level of strength that I developed, but now I got to finish the race. That's the important thing. Finishing the race. That's it for today. Tomorrow [01:02:00] I'll have a Ronnie Milo on. We have a great episode of the renew life RX show and Friday we have a pep talk that you're going to want to not only listen to, but share around if you suffer from seasonal affective disorder or, or, or Frank, uh, uh, depression.

[01:02:18] Cause there are peptides. And protocols. Use those peptides that can actually solve your depression problems. And dr Betsy earth is going to be on Friday to deliver that to the audience. So we've got two more great shows this week. Stay with us. Share the shows. Please help us build the audience. Not because I'm going to make more money, but the reality is the desire to reach people and give them answers and solutions that help them live longer and stronger is the only reason why I'm here.

[01:02:49] That's the only reason why I'm here. So please share some shows and we'll see you tomorrow with more superhuman radio. Thank you for listening. [01:03:00] .