[00:00:00] Carl Lanore: [00:00:00] Welcome back to another episode of super human radio, the longest running health, fitness and anti aging podcast in the world. And that's because of every one of you who tune in a week after week and make it possible. Today is February 13, 2020. For those of you listening to this show a hundred years from now and realizing how

[00:00:18] Keith Norris: [00:00:18] smart our audience was,

[00:00:20] Carl Lanore: [00:00:20] and, uh, we have to thank our title, sponsor legendary foods.

[00:00:25] Legendary foods has introduced the tasty pastry. They're out of stock, but if you want more, you're going to have to get on a waiting list. If you go to our website, I click one of the banner ads for the tasty pastry. Uh, you'll be able to enter your information and be notified immediately as soon as they're available again.

[00:00:42] And I know they're getting a bunch of them any day now. Casey pastry took the pop tart to a whole new level, nine grams of protein, less than one gram of sugar for impact carbs, but they actually taste better than pop tarts a go to eat [00:01:00] legendary.com to learn more and of course, click the banner ad on my website, superhuman radio.net and get on the list so when they run out again, you still have yours like I do.

[00:01:10] I eat one every day. They are delicious. I look forward to him. He's back. I toast them. And then I put halo top ice cream on top of them and uh, I feel like I'm eating crap, but I'm not. It's a wonderful thing. All right. So, uh, my guest today is none other than Keith Norris, my old friend. How are you doing, Keith

[00:01:29] Keith Norris: [00:01:29] Crow?

[00:01:30] I am rocking and rolling, brother. I just got back from the gym myself, did some heavy good mornings this morning, so I'm ready to rock and roll, man.

[00:01:37] Carl Lanore: [00:01:37] How old are you now, Keith?

[00:01:39] Keith Norris: [00:01:39] 55. God

[00:01:40] Carl Lanore: [00:01:40] bless you. You look great, man. You're aging very, very well.

[00:01:43] Keith Norris: [00:01:43] Very you.

[00:01:46] Carl Lanore: [00:01:46] So while you, while you were an upstart, when you were young, were you a, you know, kind of a edge on the edge, living on the edge, or were you pretty much a good, good person your whole life?

[00:01:56] Keith Norris: [00:01:56] No, no. You just asked me.

[00:02:01] [00:02:00] Just asked my parents. I put them through the ringer to hell no. Yeah. I was a problem child for a long period of time.

[00:02:07] Carl Lanore: [00:02:07] Okay. Okay. Just curious. I just don't want to be the only one. So anyway, uh, 10 years ago you came up with this idea and it's become so much more than I think you even envision it to

[00:02:21] Keith Norris: [00:02:21] be,

[00:02:22] Carl Lanore: [00:02:22] but you came up with this idea that.

[00:02:24] You, you, you, you are part of corporate America. Grind in a way, living the dream, doing the family thing. And then what happened? You said to yourself, I'm not crazy about what I'm doing. And the reality is I think I can help a lot of people if I follow a new path. Is that what happened?

[00:02:41] Keith Norris: [00:02:41] Yup. Yup. So what happened, Carl was, I was, uh.

[00:02:45] I was employed by big pharma. I was the liaison between the pharmaceutical manufacturer and the FDA, and I played the whole smoke and mirrors game for many, many years.

[00:02:55] Carl Lanore: [00:02:55] Really? I didn't know that.

[00:02:57] Keith Norris: [00:02:57] Right. And I became very, very disenchanted by [00:03:00] doing that. Uh, because you know, you rise to a certain level within corporate American, you get to see things that not everybody else sees.

[00:03:07] Right. You get, you get a more peek behind the, behind the curtain. You see what Oz is up to. And when I went into big pharma out of the military when I was still, I think I was like 27 years old at that time. Um, I thought I was doing humanity a service, right? What better way to, to uh, to help humanity a and B, make some Bay cause I was all about making some money

[00:03:30] Carl Lanore: [00:03:30] to God when you were a young man.

[00:03:32] You gotta be, you want it, you want to have a family, you want your children to have a good life. You want to put them on your shoulders so their trajectory is better. That's what men do. Right,

[00:03:40] Keith Norris: [00:03:40] right. And so this was a win win for me at that time. And I hit the ground running. I did everything I could. I'm a type a personality as it is anyway.

[00:03:48] Um, and I Rose very quickly through the ranks until I reached this position. And again, got to get to see, for instance, where's the R and D money going? Um, I've got to see [00:04:00] how big pharma attacks the diabetes epidemic. Right? And for them. It is not about food and exercise. It is all about interventions, pharmaceutical interventions.

[00:04:10] And I thought, well, damn, that's stupid because we can fix this.

[00:04:14] Carl Lanore: [00:04:14] We can fix this. That's good. I want to stick with this for a second, right? So people think diabetes type two diabetes is a disease. It's not. It's a condition that you have to work very hard and be consistent day in and day out. Probably for decades.

[00:04:33] Or maybe a decade to give it to yourself, number one right? So when a doctor sees your blood sugar climbing, now it's like a hundred hundred 15 they don't, they don't offer you any advice on how to stop, but once it goes past 125 then they say, okay, you're going to have to take Metformin. Just imagine if doctors said to their patients the way they tell them [00:05:00] about other things, your blood sugar's rising.

[00:05:02] This is completely in your control to change. You got to move more and you got to eat less refined carbohydrates, switched to vegetables, blah, blah, blah. That that discussion doesn't happen. And I, and you and I both know that both in university and in private practice, pharmaceutical industry creates the dialogue between the doctor and the patient.

[00:05:25] Keith Norris: [00:05:25] Absolutely. They control the dialogue. They control the training. Right? That's right.

[00:05:30] Carl Lanore: [00:05:30] They outfit the labs when you're a doctor, and the labs are Merck. Merck, Merck donated this. Merch donated that. Right.

[00:05:39] Keith Norris: [00:05:39] And so Carl, when you look at how this situation is set up, you have big food and big pharma controlling the entire conversation.

[00:05:48] Now. It's in big foods, entrusts to get you to eat as much crap as possible, right? Right. That's what they do.

[00:05:56] Carl Lanore: [00:05:56] Crap is profitable. Crap is profitable,

[00:05:58] Keith Norris: [00:05:58] and the more you eat, the [00:06:00] better. Right? So they manufacture these foods to be hyper palatable so that you can't quit. They know every button to push to get you to eat more.

[00:06:09] Carl Lanore: [00:06:09] And here it is folks, salt, fat, sugar. You make a food with those three things in it and people crave it.

[00:06:17] Keith Norris: [00:06:17] Right? You can't help it. Right. I mean, the old, the old lays adage, you can't eat just one. You damn right. You can't

[00:06:23] Carl Lanore: [00:06:23] eat that

[00:06:24] Keith Norris: [00:06:24] way. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And on the other side, do you think big pharma is fair to recommend that you move and eat less crap?

[00:06:33] No. That's, there's no profit in that zero. So you have this unholy Alliance. It just keeps spinning and spinning and spinning until we have the diabetes epidemic that we have right now, know who profits off of that big pharma, right? You have a life long customer at that point. That is the Holy grail of any entity, a lifelong customer, right?

[00:06:57] If you get them in their twenties and you keep them [00:07:00] through their seventies. That's big money,

[00:07:02] Carl Lanore: [00:07:02] big money. I mean that that is, you know what the reality is that pharmaceutical drugs probably outperform mortgages in portfolios.

[00:07:12] Keith Norris: [00:07:12] Yeah. Let me tell you. Big pharma is big business. You know, there's a lot of problems with that, both personally for each individual out there, but America is a whole worldwide as a whole.

[00:07:26] The same rise in diabetes is happening in China. It's happening in Europe, it's happening in South America. Who's paying for all of that? Eventually, I don't care what model you look at for health care, none of them can sustain that.

[00:07:41] Carl Lanore: [00:07:41] Well, in fact, in fact, I'm going to throw something out there and you may not agree and that's fine, but I'm under the impression from watching for the trajectory of illness in our country, the trajectory of obesity in our country.

[00:07:55] And diabetes is the number one killer. It's not heart disease [00:08:00] because you don't get heart disease until you get diabetes. But with that being said, I would, I would offer that the crushing weight of loss of production and expense related to the diseases of modernity. Are a greater threat to the sovereignty of our country.

[00:08:22] Then pick two things, climate change and terrorism.

[00:08:26] Keith Norris: [00:08:26] Absolutely. Absolutely. In this, this is ominous and it's hanging over our heads, right? And we've seen, we've seen some little quakes, right? You saw what happened to Detroit. Uh, a few years ago, right, where they went into insolvency. Why did they go into insolvency?

[00:08:41] Largely because they could not handle the ricing health cook healthcare. Right. That's the Canary in the coal mine coming down the pike very, very quickly. You just can't pay for it. You can't, you can't pay for

[00:08:57] Carl Lanore: [00:08:57] it. And why aren't more politicians [00:09:00] vocal about this? Because folks, you know, the analogy I used to use years ago, you and I are almost the same age.

[00:09:06] Do you remember the, uh, black and white, um, cartoons that had no dialogue? They had banjo music in the background, the cat and the mouse running around. And. The cats in the boat. The mouse pulls the cork out of the bottom of the boat. The cat starts bale in water with the little cam that's in the boat, and then when he realizes that it's inevitable, he looks at the camera and puts his hands up and he sinks.

[00:09:33] That's exactly the situation we have. We're talking about throwing more money on healthcare. That's just a can to bail the boat. We haven't plugged the hole to stop the water from coming in until we do that. This is an exercise in futility. We, I don't know when, maybe it's 12 years when the world is going to end.

[00:09:55] Maybe it's 30 years, but at some point in time, the number of sick people [00:10:00] is going to be so overwhelming. That the number of healthy people will not be able to work hard enough and give all their tax dollars to keep them healthy, to take care of them anymore. And that's when you know the, the car loses six of the eight cylinders, they just start sliding back down the Hill.

[00:10:20] Keith Norris: [00:10:20] Carl, it's just a. What it is right now is we collectively as a society, as much as you and I can rail against this, and as much as paleo effects, you can rail against this. The larger portion of society is sticking their heads in the sand, and that includes politicians who by the way, are largely paid off by big pharma.

[00:10:38] Right? So they're not going to bring it up. No. Right. That this is just, it's a huge. Unholy away. It's, it just, it's spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning. And I've made the argument that it's probably when the last profitable triangle that we have, you kick the legs out of one of those and the economy collapses.

[00:10:59] Right?

[00:10:59] Carl Lanore: [00:10:59] And [00:11:00] that, and, and I, and I've even said, uh, you know, big pharma, and, uh. Healthcare in general and politics, they are like conjoined twins that share a heart. One of them has to die in order to fix the problem, and neither one of them want to die. So they're just, they just want to go on the way they are.

[00:11:18] So you decided I'm going to do something. I'm going to create an entity, an organization, to help, um, educate people about the realities of taking control of their own health and not becoming part of that paradigm. But I got to believe in the first couple of years you were banging your head against the wall because is it my imagination or people don't want responsibility.

[00:11:41] They don't want to know that they can reverse their own diabetes.

[00:11:45] Keith Norris: [00:11:45] And, and that is, that's a huge portion of it, right? So 10 years ago when Michelle and I came up with this idea, and Michelle, by the way, was in corporate America along with me. She was, she happened to work for an entity that, uh, they built new Starbucks [00:12:00] up and down the East coast, and she was a project manager.

[00:12:03] So we were both in that world and we were rolling. We were living the American dream. Big house, big cars, kids in the best schools, you know, the whole, the whole thing. Right around 2005 or so, we started to wake up and go, you know why we have everything, every material thing we could ever want. Why are we so unhappy?

[00:12:23] Right? And this was the first awakening for us. Why? Why are we so unhappy? And we started digging into that and trying to figure it out. And we're like, well, we are both working for entities that we don't believe in. I mean, this is a, a serious, um, cognitive dissonance with us. And so we're going to have to find a way out.

[00:12:43] So we, we decided at that time to figure out a way to exit out of corporate America to what we didn't know, but we were going to exit out. Uh, long story short, 2008 happened that 2008 housing crisis and for all of our quote unquote, fuck you, money was tied up [00:13:00] in real estate at that time. That was our, that was our exit plan.

[00:13:03] That evaporated. Wow.

[00:13:06] Carl Lanore: [00:13:06] Um,  that that had to be crushing to you, right? Cause you didn't, you weren't all rebuilding a boat to get on. You were just that you thought you had your boat and then it literally just disappeared before your eyes.

[00:13:18] Keith Norris: [00:13:18] Yeah, it evaporated. And that's a whole other story about what kind of distrust that bred in us about the system.

[00:13:24] Right? So, right. So, and we had already survived the, uh, the two thousand.com crashed because we were quote unquote smart enough to be heavily invested in real estate. Right.

[00:13:34] Carl Lanore: [00:13:34] And then right.

[00:13:36] Keith Norris: [00:13:36] And then look, right. So we were, so the system for us was a lie. And we have a panel at paleo effects. It's just that every year the system is a lie.

[00:13:44] Right. And, and kind of taking it a different view on this with the idea of being that, um, that you are your own best investment you cause you are the one that's going to operate under, under all circumstances.

[00:13:59] Carl Lanore: [00:13:59] You know, you [00:14:00] will show up for work every day. You know that you get the job done, you, we shouldn't have.

[00:14:04] You start delegating those types of things out. You start to risk being held hostage by other things in people.

[00:14:13] Keith Norris: [00:14:13] Right. Including your health. Right. And this is what our society does right now. They, they outsource their health to the authorities. Well, then we'd get back into who are the authorities answering to big pharma, big food.

[00:14:27] I mean, the whole, the whole chain goes on. Um, anyway, during this time we were, we were exiting out and we didn't know when to what, but we, we knew what we weren't going to do any longer. And so we were, we were planning our exit strategy. In 2009 we lost a daughter to an auto accident. That was obviously devastating.

[00:14:49] Right? Right. So she was 22 at the time. She was three days before the 23rd birthday a week before college graduation. It was, it was a horrible time for both of us. Um, [00:15:00] long story short, we decided we are still on this path. Because what would Brittany want us to do, turn tail and go back to doing what we didn't want to do just to make money?

[00:15:10] Or would she rather us chase our dreams, take a chance, roll dice, chase her dreams. Uh, so we decided to chase our dreams. Um. We got out. I opened gyms in, um, in Austin, Texas, and she is a chef, so she created a catering company and we're off and running. We boot, strapped our way from near bankruptcy, bootstrapped our way back up to, Oh, okay, we're making it.

[00:15:32] We got this, but we're making it. Um, in 2011, we went to the initial ancestral health society summit that was in a, it was in California that year at UCLA. Eh, went to that show, very, very academic show, as it should have been. And these are work papers or PR or released out into the public. And we thought, um, you know, that was an excellent show, but what, what could have been better about that show?

[00:15:58] What could they have done different

[00:15:59] Carl Lanore: [00:15:59] that [00:16:00] we haven't quite, because really what they did was there was a firewall between average people and intellectuals. Intellectuals were embraced. Those who had. Uh, positions in, in this silo already, they will embrace, but the average person was probably intimidated to even show up when they realize what was being, Oh, that's not for me.

[00:16:21] So you, you had to make it, in order to actually have an effect on changing people, you had to make it embrace the average person.

[00:16:31] Keith Norris: [00:16:31] Exactly. And so the show, and I run the, uh, on a Southwest airline flight, and we were sitting on the tarmac at lax getting ready to come back to Austin. And we thought, what could be done about the show to make it different and more relevant to the, to the, you know, even an educated lay person, right.

[00:16:48] And, uh, on the back of a napkin, we started jotting down ideas and what that would look like in our minds. We were thinking, Michelle and I, who are we going to hand this off to let them run with? And we thought. [00:17:00] Nobody. Nobody, no talkie. So, yeah. And so we, by the time we got back to Austin, we had a rudimentary business plan, literally on the back of the Southwest airlines napkin.

[00:17:08] We ran with it. Six months later, we had our first show. Um, we drew 'em in, by the way. We intended it to be a mastermind with about a hundred, 150 people that quickly turned into almost 800 people. So we had to scramble to find a venue. Um, and that was, that was the first show. 2012, we had 50 speakers, about 800 attendees.

[00:17:31] Last year. By way of comparison, we had over 8,000 attendees, um, 120 speakers and about 240 vendors, sponsors, and this thing has grown exponentially. And it's because we are co-creating with the attendees in the speakers and the vendors in the spa as we go along. We are not dictating from on high what should be, we are actually in a process of cocreation [00:18:00] with everybody.

[00:18:00] Right, right, right.

[00:18:03] Carl Lanore: [00:18:03] That's actually a better way to create something

[00:18:05] Keith Norris: [00:18:05] anyway.

[00:18:05] Carl Lanore: [00:18:05] Right. So real quick, for those who may be tuning out shortly or something like that, this is the 10th year, where will it be this year? Austin,

[00:18:15] Keith Norris: [00:18:15] Texas, the 24th through the 26th of April.

[00:18:17] Carl Lanore: [00:18:17] And what is the venue?

[00:18:19] Keith Norris: [00:18:19] It's the Palmer event center, which is a beautiful venue just South of South of downtown Austin.

[00:18:25] It's right on the other side of the river, right on the South side of the river from downtown. In fact, you can see the Capitol from . From the Palmer though, et cetera,

[00:18:31] Carl Lanore: [00:18:31] and people listening to the show who want to go this year, you can save 30% off any of the badges. They have several different levels of, of uh, participation.

[00:18:40] If you use the code super human radio 30 you'll get 30% off, which is a fantastic, I, I, there are people in my audience that say they've been there every year since its inception. There are people in my audience say they've been here the last seven years. I think Lynn right messaged me when she saw I was doing this show today with you, and she said.

[00:18:57] I think she's been there seven years in a row or six [00:19:00] years in a row, and people keep coming back because every year they learn new stuff. They learned, you know, I almost think paleo is too narrow of a silo for what you guys do there. I mean, it's physical culture, it's diet, it's, uh, therapies. Uh, it's just become so much more.

[00:19:26] Keith Norris: [00:19:26] Carl, it's, we say it's a human optimization event and it really is. Now, a couple of years ago, we actually looked at rebranding just for that reason. We thought, well, the term paleo is, might be limiting us, might be hamstring. Right? Um, and we got, you know, we talked to, uh, branding experts in to an expert.

[00:19:45] They told us, if you walk away from this term right now, you are crazy. You, you own the term. Now you get to define the term. Now get to work to finding the term.

[00:19:54] Carl Lanore: [00:19:54] So tell people where the term comes from. We all know what paleo is, but what is [00:20:00] the F F? Parenthetic X mean, uh,

[00:20:02] Keith Norris: [00:20:02] functional. So this was a, this was a bit of a, this was a bit of a brainstorming when we were initially trying to come up with a brand, right?

[00:20:11] And we thought, well, what are we doing here? We're actually, we're actually taking the theory paleo, but we want to make it rubber meets the road. What is that? That's kind of functional. And when we started playing with functional. And I thought being a liberal arts major, somewhere in the back of my pea brain, uh, cooking university, the turf steaks, I remembered it somehow that came up and just bubbled into my conscious 

[00:20:36] Carl Lanore: [00:20:36] X.

[00:20:36] Right,

[00:20:37] Keith Norris: [00:20:37] right, right. And I just spit it out there and we all kind of laughed at it, but then we looked at it, you know, you're going over it and going over it, and we're just like, well, that's kinda catchy. It makes me pull, ask. Exactly that. What is that? And it's catchy and it just stuck. So that's what the, you know, FX, functional, functional, paleo.

[00:20:55] And that's, that's what we are. And we look at, when I say human optimization, we looked at seven [00:21:00] pillars. So that would be physical, emotional, mental, spiritual, financial. Yes. Because that's part of your health. Relational. You and me and tribal. Our big tribe, what? All of those are super, super important. And when you see, especially in my realm, I see high level entrepreneurs who obviously have the financial side of it dialed in, but they train wreck because one of those other pillars is out of kilter.

[00:21:26] It's either health, it's emotional, it's they don't have any good solid relationships. If you don't have all of those pillars optimized, you will run into a roadblock somewhere. Right. And so and so it paleo effects, we explore each and every one of those pillars, either with dedicated speakers or a panel talking about it and also say people come to paleo FX for the tribe and the vibe when you walk up to that, for Carl, it is like, I don't know if you've ever been to burning man, but there is a certain vibe at [00:22:00] burning man when you're out there on the Playa, it is like, I don't know what this is.

[00:22:03] But this feels good

[00:22:05] Carl Lanore: [00:22:05] energy and

[00:22:06] Keith Norris: [00:22:06] it's energy and people, and I've had people go to other conferences all around the world and they will come up to me and Michelle as well and go, I don't know what you guys did, but there is a vibe on this floor that you, you can't, you can't manufacture. It just has to come about and be

[00:22:25] Carl Lanore: [00:22:25] organic.

[00:22:25] It's organic. It's an

[00:22:26] Keith Norris: [00:22:26] organic.

[00:22:27] Carl Lanore: [00:22:27] Yeah. So, so, uh, before we take our first break named some of the names of people that. Uh, listeners who attend will be able to listen to,

[00:22:37] Keith Norris: [00:22:37] right. So, Rob Wolf, Chris Kresser, uh, Ben Greenfield's, uh, Mark Sessa and Steven Gundry. Uh, Jamie, we'll, we'll be out this year. Um, some, someone, uh, so an interesting one for sure.

[00:22:50] James Fitzgerald, the winner of the first, uh, CrossFit open. The reason he is so relevant and important is because longevity in the [00:23:00] sport is he still competing at a high level? No, but you should see this guy. He is, don't rock him enrolling. He has figured out a way to stay at a very, very high functional athletic level, even in past its competitive career and the list goes on and on and on.

[00:23:15] It'll be 120 ish speakers again this year. All super high quality.

[00:23:21] Carl Lanore: [00:23:21] And for those who are listening, give an idea of what the, the, the current costs of the badges are for the different attendees, uh, categories. And then of course, they can apply 30, 30% a count using the superhuman radio 30 coupon. Where does it start?

[00:23:36] What does it end?

[00:23:37] Keith Norris: [00:23:37] Right? So you can start at the high end. It's a VIP level ticket, and that will set you back roughly $1,600. You dropped down to a mid tier, that's a premiere badge that'll set you back roughly $600 and then you can come in on the expo floor, which there was a hell of a lot going on in the expo for him.

[00:23:54] Just that, that, that is not a, a, a constellation. It's [00:24:00] not a constellation at all. And that's about 147 and I say about, because. My marketing team handles all of this.

[00:24:09] Carl Lanore: [00:24:09] You don't want to, yeah. You don't want to put your foot down. So what, what does somebody get for the VIP level entry? Access to every event.

[00:24:16] Everything, right?

[00:24:18] Keith Norris: [00:24:18] Yep. Access to everything. Um, and the, the big thing is. Front row seating for all of the talks, and there's five continuous stages that are going, you will not be bored crawl. It is like drinking from a fire hose. Right? I have never heard anybody say, uh, I got bored at paleo FX. Right? If we have any negative feedback, it's, there's too much going on.

[00:24:38] I can't take it all in. Which, if that's the negative feedback, I'll take it.

[00:24:42] Carl Lanore: [00:24:42] Okay. So that begs a question. So are you taping all of these events and do the VIP is have access to something that they can look at after the event is over?

[00:24:51] Keith Norris: [00:24:51] Um. I don't know about that. We're still considering that. But yes, we take the, uh, we take the, um, keynote stage, [00:25:00] and

[00:25:00] Carl Lanore: [00:25:00] that would be, that would be great.

[00:25:02] Right? But like a guy like me, I have add when it comes to this kind of stuff, I want to be everywhere, but I can't. Uh, and so I would love to be able to like get home and go, man, I wish I would've seen this lecture. Right. Because I paid for the VIP. I have a special place to go on the website where I can go watch that video.

[00:25:19] That would be cool.

[00:25:21] Keith Norris: [00:25:21] Yeah, that'd be cool. Absolutely. And I think the big, most people who buy the VIP pass, they buy it for this because they have access to the same wound that the speakers have access to. And so they get to commingle. They get to just have those impromptu conversations with Rob Wolf and Mark Sisson and, and Ben Greenfield, and then all of these guys.

[00:25:42] Because when, when those guys go out on the expo floor, they're swamped, right? Right. Yeah. They go out there a lot because they love interaction with the crowd. But to be able to, to, you know, pull them off to the side and have a conversation with them, that's not going to have possible. Right.

[00:25:57] Carl Lanore: [00:25:57] Right. Yeah.

[00:25:58] You can do that behind the scenes [00:26:00] with them if you, if

[00:26:00] Keith Norris: [00:26:00] you're a part of the VIP group. Right. And that's very cool. IP language is very, very cool because there's all manner of biohacking companies up there. You know, the hyperbaric, uh, lounges, um, it just, all kinds of cool toys up there to test drive.

[00:26:16] Carl Lanore: [00:26:16] That's very, very cool. I want to take a quick commercial break. When we come back, I want to talk about the human zoo and here's why, right? Randy Roach and I did a show around 2008 called humans in captivity. We have this illusion that we are free. Uh, but when you look at how humans are treated today. Uh, with, with laws and, and geographical, uh, challenges and so on and so forth.

[00:26:43] We really, while we don't have cages around us, we really are captive to a certain type of system that actually promotes diseases that have modernity. I want to talk about the whole human zoo concept that you've adapted to. Okay. So we're talking with Keith Norris. The [00:27:00] website is paleo fx.com if you use the coupon code super human radio 30 you'll save 30% off, which is huge.

[00:27:08] Regardless of what badge you get, that's a huge savings. Uh, check it out. We're going to take one quick commercial break. We'll be right back. Stay tuned. Your radio. It's super

[00:27:17] Keith Norris: [00:27:17] human radio.

[00:27:23] Carl Lanore: [00:27:23] Welcome back. We're talking with Keith Norris and paleo FX fame about the upcoming event this year in Austin, Texas. Uh, I know a lot of people go to it. A lot of people love it. Uh, and like you said, it's like a family. Everybody gets together. Likeminded people tend to feed off of likeminded people. Magic happens.

[00:27:44] And that's what's going to happen again this year. And I think Elisa and I are planning on being there. It's in April right. Oh, I'm sorry. Keep the head your mic off. Please repeat.

[00:27:53] Keith Norris: [00:27:53] Sorry. I said both of you guys got to come and tell her. You know what? Regret it.

[00:27:58] Carl Lanore: [00:27:58] I know. I know. [00:28:00] Uh, and so, uh, you know what it is?

[00:28:01] I'm just, uh, I really, people, people realize how boring of a person I really am.

[00:28:07] Keith Norris: [00:28:07] Oh, you're not boring. I've been out with you

[00:28:12] Carl Lanore: [00:28:12] and boring. Well, I'm not boring once I have a couple of drinks, but other than that, I have a pretty boring lifestyle. I'm in bed by nine o'clock. Uh, you know, I'm not, I'm not the fun guy in the crowd.

[00:28:20] But with that being said, talk about the human zoo. What do you mean by that? When you talk about, when you say, you know, breaking out of the human zoo,

[00:28:29] Keith Norris: [00:28:29] right? What Carla was exactly what you said before we went on break, right? It's the, it's the idea that we are a free agents and operations. And that's probably the tightest bars around somebody who has, who will be adamant and saying, no, I'm totally free.

[00:28:45] In fact, you're not, I mean, you are marketed to you. You live in a society that that is in an environment that is a manufactured environment. You have this 3000 year old chassis. You're walking down and an a in a modern environment [00:29:00] that is anything but healthy. The food, the pollution, the. A creature comforts, all of these things, right?

[00:29:07] And, and I think from the point of view from paleo FX and from our, from our tribe is not that we want to go back to the cave and spear, right? That's not what we're about. But we certainly learned from those people. Right. And we can try as best we can to integrate healthy practices within this modern atmosphere.

[00:29:27] Right? I mean, I love the fact that you would like to do this show right now and on the computer, and it's, uh, it is amazing. And I know, I know millennia millennials are probably listening to this going, Oh my God, there's a couple of old guys talking. Yeah. Right. Asleep. Right. The ability to transfer information in a snap like that is.

[00:29:46] I mean, it's mind boggling and yet you spend too much time doing this. It's a detriment to your health, right? You have, this body was meant to move, right? Right. That this body was meant to survive. It was meant to [00:30:00] go through pure periodic, uh, instances of stress. That's how it gets stronger, both in the immune system, the, the physical body, all of it needs periodic instances of stress and to the be, to the extent that we mitigate those stresses.

[00:30:15] Thinking we're doing it ourselves is solid. We're in fact not right. And there is a balance in that. And that same type of thinking goes to the educational system. Um, I look at the way that we are so connected in one way via social media, yet we are so disconnected personally, right?

[00:30:36] Carl Lanore: [00:30:36] How can we get someone problem

[00:30:37] Keith Norris: [00:30:37] today?

[00:30:37] Right? Exactly. How can someone living in New York city feel alone?

[00:30:42] Carl Lanore: [00:30:42] How does that happen?

[00:30:43] Keith Norris: [00:30:43] Right? Right. But because they've lost the ability to connect on a personal level. Right. And, um, I don't know if you've read the book a tribe by Sebastian younger. I have not. Tell me about it. Excellent book. It talks about, um, for [00:31:00] the most part it talks about, and I experienced this when I was in the military, so you would go on deployment, right?

[00:31:08] And you're surrounded by guys who have your back. You have their back. It's life and death situation, right? All you can think about when you're on deployment is getting back home. That's the only thing that keeps you going. Getting back home, getting back up the second you get back home, you're not home for 24 hours and you're depressed, right?

[00:31:26] And I thought, why am I depressed? I'm here with my family. This is what I waited eight months for. And the only thing in my mind is to get back on deployment. What the fuck is that about? Right.

[00:31:38] Carl Lanore: [00:31:38] I think we've, we've actually, we've actually talked about that on the show. So I used to do a show with Nate Morrison who has been deployed like 26 times.

[00:31:46] The guy was a career. He started out in a power military, then special ops and all this other stuff. And we talked about what a traumatic exposure really is to these guys. [00:32:00] And it's not so much that they're traumatized by. The hostility, uh, the killing, the warfare. But what happens is, so we, we talk about being in the zone all the time, right?

[00:32:13] Oh, my surfers, they're in the zone. Skaters, you're in the zone. Well, when 10 guys drop out of a helicopter in the middle of night and stop moving through a field like wolves, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, uh, a, an innate, uh, part of us. That is hearkened when we are literally like wolves killing and moving in unison and it's orchestrated and it's a zone.

[00:32:46] It's another one of the zones that these guys get into. They get into that zone. The brain chemistry is just flying because we're talking about life or death on the edge. We're not talking about wiping out, you know, on a half pipe and [00:33:00] then they come home. And they're working at the post office now, throwing boxes.

[00:33:06] When six months ago they were building a nation. They were destroying terrorists. They were, you know, they would do it driving, you know, $10 million machines and now all of a sudden their schlubs there. Somebody going, Hey, you know, go get that package. Once you open up those channels of your brain to this prehistoric drive.

[00:33:29] It's real hard to close them back up again.

[00:33:31] Keith Norris: [00:33:31] It is, and it's it. And once you, once you feel that feeling of being alive, which is what, what you just described, that's the feeling of being alive. You come back to normal society, which has been gentrified, and, uh, you know, you've taken all the, all the fear out of it.

[00:33:48] For the most part. You've, you've just, uh, taken all the risk out of it. That's essentially just. Uh, another type

[00:33:57] Carl Lanore: [00:33:57] of Prozac. So lay, it's a complete letdown. These poor [00:34:00] guys, that's why they, they, they, their family goes, what do you mean you couldn't go back? You know what I got? I got to go back. Like, why?

[00:34:06] Because they need to feel that again. It's almost like a

[00:34:09] Keith Norris: [00:34:09] drug. It is. It is. Um. And for the normal person. Sebastian younger also talks about, you know, uh, people in, uh, say earthquake zones or hurricane zones, things like that, where there was a natural disaster and people had to come together. Right? And you ask those people after the fact, what if, what period of your life did you feel most alive, connected, and part of a greater good.

[00:34:39] They will identify that period, which from the outside looking in would look like the absolute worst period of their lives.

[00:34:45] Carl Lanore: [00:34:45] And it's not. It's amazing. I know, I know. It's a man. And you know what? If people, if people understood this, if people were sensitive to this, then re-entry to the civilian world would be better for these guys because we would understand, you know, [00:35:00] I have a FedEx driver and he was in Kuwait.

[00:35:04] I don't look at him like I look at the average guy. Right. I know that this guy looks at life completely differently than I do, and not in a bad way, so I have to be sensitive to that. Just like you're sensitive to, you know, if some woman came up to you and says, well, I was raped as a young girl you, and you're taking her out on a date, you're not going to make those moves on her like you would an average girl.

[00:35:24] You get this girl. I've got to be sensitive to it, but we don't treat the military like that. In fact. If anything, they come back to a population of people who hold them with great disdain, baby killers and murderers and all this sort of stuff, and it's like, it's really horrible what's done. What is the fact that we rely on these guys to keep us safe and free, but then when they come back, we treat them like garbage, right?

[00:35:50] We should treat them. We should. Give them jobs that maybe they're not ready for. We should help them reestablish their lives. We [00:36:00] should do this cause we do it for other people who fall into silos who don't deserve it. When these guys are out there literally dying or ready to die for us,

[00:36:11] Keith Norris: [00:36:11] I'm telling you, the more risk averse a society becomes, the more deadened and depressed it becomes.

[00:36:17] This is all part of thing. It's all this, it's all part of the human zoo. Right? And so, so the idea is, um, number one, to recognize that, right? The foods you eat manufactured, the messaging you get from big pharma manufacturer, the message you get from your doctor largely manufactured, right? You have to navigate that.

[00:36:38] Now, ms shelter's broke her ankle a couple of months ago. Totally glad we had access to Western medicine right. But I do not go to those guys for lifestyle advice, right? Hell no. I, they're not trained in it. Right. They're just not trained in it. Can they set up bone with the best? Absolutely. So you take, you take what is the Bruce Lee approach?

[00:36:59] You take what is [00:37:00] good, discard what is not. Right. Right. And so, um, Chris Ryan wrote an excellent book on this topic too. It's called civilized to death. If you've ever

[00:37:08] Carl Lanore: [00:37:08] no, that's a great title. I'm making notes. These are books. I'll get it. I'll pick up now.

[00:37:12] Keith Norris: [00:37:12] Yeah. Chris Ryan. It now. Chris Ryans. Um, I'd love Chris Ryan.

[00:37:17] I loved the book. Um, after reading it, you might feel a bit depressed, right? Because you think, well, there's no way out of this. There's no way out. The paleo effect stance is yes. All of that's out there and there is a way out, right. The way out is number one, you have got to take the red pill. You have got to wake up and see what's going on around you.

[00:37:38] Right. Right? And then you navigate as need be.

[00:37:42] Carl Lanore: [00:37:42] So, um, and I want to ask you a couple of questions and see what your position is so I can get a feel for what is going to be the position with paleo effects moving forward. Just throw some terms at you and you respond.

[00:37:55] Keith Norris: [00:37:55] Right?

[00:37:55] Carl Lanore: [00:37:55] Uh, the vegan diet,

[00:37:58] Keith Norris: [00:37:58] uh, [00:38:00] not a fan.

[00:38:01] Um, and so here's the thing. We had Joel Kahn out last year. Who co actually contacted Michelle and said, Hey, um, what would you feel about having a prominent, uh, vegan vegetarian at the show? And we said, absolutely. Come on out. Come on out and tell us what you think. Please tell us what your position is.

[00:38:20] And, uh, I actually moderated a panel with, uh, Joel Kahn and my head, uh, Sean Baker and Sean Wells and, um, Gabrielle Lyons. I don't know if you know any.

[00:38:30] Carl Lanore: [00:38:30] I do. I do know Gabrielle Lyons. I just was reading some stuff. I'm actually going to try to have her on the show actually.

[00:38:35] Keith Norris: [00:38:35] You absolutely shouldn't. She's, she's

[00:38:37] Carl Lanore: [00:38:37] fantastic, by the way.

[00:38:38] If you have any contact information for her, just shoot it to me. I think I have it. I think I reached out to on Instagram, but I don't, I'm not sure. So

[00:38:45] Keith Norris: [00:38:45] I absolutely will. I absolutely will. Okay. And the first question I asked the panelists, I said, what is it that we can all agree on, right? Let's like, let's like get in the nifty, what can we agree on?

[00:38:56] Right? All right. Well, no surprise. [00:39:00] Big pharmas rampant out of control. Refined carbohydrates are good for nobody, right? And we have an animal husbandry problem in this country. C'mon confined animal as a confined animal feeding operations. The big

[00:39:15] Carl Lanore: [00:39:15] industrial, right? The antithesis of the small family farm, raising your animals because the animals actually have pleasant lives until they're processed,

[00:39:23] Keith Norris: [00:39:23] right?

[00:39:23] So guess what? At the end of the day, we agreed on 90% now what do we disagree on? We disagree on taking these the life of another century being for our own wellbeing. Cool. Is that all we disagree on

[00:39:37] Carl Lanore: [00:39:37] right. That's interesting. That's an interesting approach. Yeah.

[00:39:40] Keith Norris: [00:39:40] Cree on 90% then why are we, why are we focused on arguing on the 10%?

[00:39:46] Carl Lanore: [00:39:46] And the reality is, if you believe in, uh, an evolutionary drivers, if you believe in ancestral, uh, impacts on us, there were periods of time where we probably did eat vegan [00:40:00] because we didn't catch any animals for awhile. We were going to just starve. Right. So if you really do believe something that I believe in is the phasic nature of, of human.

[00:40:13] Uh, diets, but I'm actually thinking about going vegan for a couple of weeks just because I feel like I, my body's telling me maybe we should try this for a couple of weeks and I don't. And it's not like as though now would I go vegan for the rest of my life by choice. No, because I know there's bad out, potentially bad outcomes, but when I go vegan for a couple of weeks, three times a year.

[00:40:33] Keith Norris: [00:40:33] Yeah. Right. And which you fast at other times. Yes. I mean, that was part of the human condition. We weren't well fed 100% of the time, right? There were periods where we had to go through fasting and there were periods where, let's face it, we are opportunistic eaters, evolutionary speaking, right? We ate everything.

[00:40:52] We could shut down our pie holes that didn't kill us first

[00:40:56] Carl Lanore: [00:40:56] and it killed a lot of us. Do we figure it out? Oh, don't eat those mushrooms. [00:41:00] Right? Rog died when he ate those bucks.

[00:41:03] Keith Norris: [00:41:03] And so and so when you look at it from that perspective, this is so diet resides on the spectrum, a wide spectrum. By the way, we covered it all at paleo FX.

[00:41:14] I primarily myself eat what would be considered a a Mediterranean keto diet. That's what works for me, just by trial and error and some other genetic testing that I've done that. Here's a big irony. The two people who've created paleo FX. How can they carry in the Leo APO three, four a wheel that predisposes them to have trouble with saturated fat, too much saturated fat in their diet?

[00:41:42] It's in fact, interesting.

[00:41:44] Carl Lanore: [00:41:44] Are we talking about Lauren and his predecessor that I've had on the show, and I can't think of his name now,

[00:41:50] Keith Norris: [00:41:50] uh, Cordain

[00:41:51] Carl Lanore: [00:41:51] Loren Cordain, but who, but who did he learn from a

[00:41:54] Keith Norris: [00:41:54] Boyd Eaton

[00:41:56] Carl Lanore: [00:41:56] who's been on the show? So both of those guys had that illegal. [00:42:00] I don't

[00:42:00] Keith Norris: [00:42:00] know if they did. I don't know if they had that alone.

[00:42:03] No, this is a small percentage of the population that has it. And the problem with that, this particular, uh, is our biochemistry does not handle large amounts of saturated fat. Well, and the ramifications of that is you can have a, uh, we are already at a higher incidence level of, uh, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's and those kinds of cognitive.

[00:42:27] Uh, diseases in my own personal case. It laid on top of that. I played football all the way through college and then the off season I Kickbox

[00:42:36] Carl Lanore: [00:42:36] so, so basically you got your bell rung the line.

[00:42:39] Keith Norris: [00:42:39] I got my bell rung a lot. I really have to watch my diet now. This is a small percentage of the population for everybody else.

[00:42:47] Saturated fat.

[00:42:48] Carl Lanore: [00:42:48] Imagine. Now imagine if you're one of these people who mindlessly goes into. All right. Hello? You're like, Oh, kedo kettle, kettle. Kettle is the best kettles this, and you do the whole kettle thing. You're eating 90% [00:43:00] of your calories from saturated fats, right? You're basically destroying yourself.

[00:43:05] Keith Norris: [00:43:05] Right? And so the idea is we teach people at paleo effects to be critical thinkers, right? Yes. I understand. For most people, saturated fats are not an issue for most people. Now I have to look through the lens of me. Is it good for me? Well, you know, I have, I have the things I can look at. I can look at, uh, you know, my genetic predisposition.

[00:43:29] That might be something really good to look at. And when I did that. Oh, by the way, in fact, Michelle was the first one who went through this testing with dr Dan stickler, who you should have on your show crawl. I don't know if you've had him on before. I haven't. Phenomenal. And he's a world expert in peptides.

[00:43:45] You guys would have an awesome conversation. Right? But she came home and she said, you'll never guess. You will never guess what I was just told, and I kind of sat back. I was probably eating a pound of bacon or something at the time. Kind of laughing at [00:44:00] her. Well, go. Sucks for you consult. And then I went in about a week following same thing.

[00:44:07] And Dan is like, I don't know what the odds are of

[00:44:11] Carl Lanore: [00:44:11] meeting meeting. Yeah, right, exactly.

[00:44:13] Keith Norris: [00:44:13] It's like, wow. But yeah, you've got, you've got the same illegal and it's a small percentage of the population, but, but this is all, Hey, this is critical thinking, which is also part of being sucked into the human zoo is we have been.

[00:44:27] Drugged out of this because we are born natural, critical thinkers.

[00:44:31] Carl Lanore: [00:44:31] The other thing is, isn't it? Randy Roach and I talked about this, but we have lost our instincts. So instincts have literally been bred out of us. We have to turn to a book on how to raise children. We have to turn to, uh, someone to tell us how to eat.

[00:44:45] So and so. We have no instinctive when it comes to die. I mean. Look wild dogs. Nope. No farmer has ever stepped out his back door and said, man, those wild dogs ate all the corn again last night. It goes wild. Dogs aren't eating corn, [00:45:00] but once you domesticate them, they're eating corn. So you know, and, and domesticated dogs have the same diseases that humans have, diabetes and cancer.

[00:45:10] Number one killer now is cancer of golden retrievers and Labrador retrievers. And so we don't have the instincts on what to eat anymore. And on top of that. We have people in these silos telling us this is the only way to eat. And when people start talking like that, Keith, I literally walk away because you don't know anything about me.

[00:45:29] You don't know, forget about my genetics, but the influences of the origin of the my diet from 500 years ago in Italy, like you don't even know what foods were available to me. How can you make such a broad statement like, no, you should be eating this way.

[00:45:44] Keith Norris: [00:45:44] Right about. The only thing we can say broadly is that sugar is good for nobody.

[00:45:48] Yeah, I agree. Right. And and highly processed, refined carbohydrates are good for

[00:45:54] Carl Lanore: [00:45:54] nobody. In fact, I did a show probably seven years ago on the effects on the microbiome from eating a [00:46:00] cellular carbohydrates. What a cellular carbohydrates. Any flour. Whether it's tapioca, flour, we flour, rice, flour. Once it's turned into a flour, the digestion process happens all in the gut and small intestine, and it feeds bad bugs.

[00:46:19] So if you're eating flour based foods, we're talking about highly refined, it's destroying you. And I don't care. Well, it's not wheat, it's no gluten. It's, it's tapioca, dude. It's flour based. Don't eat it

[00:46:32] Keith Norris: [00:46:32] right. Right. There's, there's an interesting study that came out, and I can't remember the guy's name right now that, that presented it.

[00:46:39] Um, but in essence, he was studying rats and rats. Um, initially the study had nothing to do with diet. Right? But they had, they had these different rats separated out into different groups, and the rats were supposed to eat the same thing. Right. And in fact, they weren't eating the same thing, [00:47:00] but some of the rats got kibble.

[00:47:02] Some of the, the rats got different types of food and some of the rat Scotty, a pulverized powderized version of the same thing, but it was powderized and pulverized, right?

[00:47:12] Carl Lanore: [00:47:12] A cellular, that's called .

[00:47:14] Keith Norris: [00:47:14] And that group that got that type of meal, even though it was the same type as all the other rats, so diabetes and obesity, and they could not figure out why they're like, the food is the same.

[00:47:27] And so they kept backtracking, kept backtracking kit. Are you sure the foods are saying, yes, look at the content, the nutrient profile, everything, and they're scratching their heads and they're going, well, what's different? And they finally came, Oh, that's powderized. Is that what it is? It's powderized so that, so their digestive systems don't have to break anything down.

[00:47:45] It's not a natural process for them. It's immediately absorbed in the gut, yada, yada, yada. Yes. It makes a huge difference.

[00:47:51] Carl Lanore: [00:47:51] So I have another word I'm going to throw at you, but people are going to have to wait to, uh, after the break to hear your response. And this will might be a lightning rod, [00:48:00] but it's carnivores.

[00:48:02] Ah, Oh, so now I talk about that when we come back. How's that sound? All right. Go to page, go to paleo fx.com use the coupon code super human radio 30 save 30% off any badge, and we will be there. Elise and I will be there and we will see people. I promise you I want to go to . But anyway, I like Austin. It's a fun city.

[00:48:19] Stay tuned. It's

[00:48:23] Keith Norris: [00:48:23] super human radio.

[00:48:30] Carl Lanore: [00:48:30] welcome back. We're talking with Keith Norris from paleo FX, changing the world

[00:48:36] Keith Norris: [00:48:36] one person at a time.

[00:48:38] Carl Lanore: [00:48:38] And, uh, when we went into the break, I asked a lightning rod of a question. What Keith thinks of a carnivore diet, exclusively meat, only meat. Nothing else but meat.

[00:48:50] Keith Norris: [00:48:50] What do you think? Yeah, so here's, here's what I've seen calling practice.

[00:48:54] I have seen people go vegetarian and seeing [00:49:00] profound life changes, right? Their, their health improves and they feel better and they do great. I have seen. People go on the carnivore diet, same thing. Now, here's the thing, initially white is that I would say it's because they've been removed all the crap out of their diet,

[00:49:18] Carl Lanore: [00:49:18] and that is that what you just said just now is something that is really lost on people.

[00:49:26] It's not what you're eating. It's what you're no longer eating.

[00:49:30] Keith Norris: [00:49:30] Right. Right now, that's what I see initially. Now. Everyone that I have known personally who has gone vegan, vegetarian has initially has eventually come into some kind of health issue, right? I mean, it's just not a sustainable diet from a human perspective.

[00:49:50] Right? And there's, there's lots of, I mean, we can go into optimal foraging theory. We can talk about just B12 for instance. It's, that's missing in that diet. On the flip side, I have [00:50:00] seen people be carnivore for long periods of time and maintain their health or they optimize versus another diet.

[00:50:07] Carl Lanore: [00:50:07] I'm going to, I'm going to make a prediction.

[00:50:08] I'm actually doing, I'm getting, I'm preparing to do a show with Joel green, so iron overload. Is a big problem in our country, and it's written off as, Oh, I'm just getting older. Um, I have a small group of what I consider a mastermind group in this area, and we all started to donate blood and we started to keep our iron levels low and people's symptoms of neuropathy, uh, of aches and pains, degeneration of Chondra, chondracytes and joints.

[00:50:42] Um, changes in skin quality and rashes. They start to go away when they get phlebotomist regularly and focus on getting not just ferritin down cause ferritin is, is not the answer. Um, if you take a thousand milligrams of vitamin C a day for five [00:51:00] months, or even really for five weeks, your ferritin levels will go through the roof because ferritin is a protein, a protein, a chaperone protein produced to help shuttle and bind iron in the blood.

[00:51:12] But total, uh, total, uh, iron in the blood TIBC and saturation level of ferritin needs to be looked at in order to really see what iron is doing in the body. And I'm saying this, I just said, I just texted Mark Bell this morning. He's coming on the show on the 26th to talk about Cray Tom as a pre-workout.

[00:51:34] And so here's what I will say to those of you who have want to be carnival forever. We were not, from an evolutionary perspective, we did not eat me day in and day out for the entire life. I just asked Joel green to find me some research or chose anything maybe on the new EEG or one of these, a Hunter gatherer populations that are still intact.

[00:51:55] Is there any evidence of a iron [00:52:00] overload or accumulation, and is there anything unique about the Hunter Hunter gatherer lifestyle that may mitigate. The ability for iron to build up in the body. Cause there may be, we know that joggers, runners dry, they become anemic no matter how much iron they consume.

[00:52:16] So there's a. There's this theory that internal organs bouncing up and down ruptured red blood cells. The spleen gets it out, it gets the iron out with it. There's also a foot strike. They're saying, well, the foot strike burst red blood cells and the spleen does the same thing. Is there anything unique about Hunter gatherers?

[00:52:34] I'm even looking for a nutritionist that I emailed this morning and said, is there any evidence that eating raw beef. Verse cooked beef. Does the cook beef provide more absorption of Hemi iron that maybe raw beef doesn't? Because I'm trying to figure this out. This is a, this is a conundrum of modernity, but I will say this to anybody who's going strict carnivore.

[00:52:59] Please [00:53:00] go to the red claw cross, help other people donate blood every two months because here's the bad part about iron overload. The symptoms don't show up for a long time, but they're not reversible easily. Once they show up, they, they hurt, they affect sleep, they affect the microbiome. Iron I, when you do the deep dive on iron, you literally walk away going, Oh shit.

[00:53:27] That's why we age the way we do. Oh wait, wait, wait. One more thing. Everybody's all the rage about senescent cells, right? That's the new thing. Rapid myosin destroys it. Do you know that senescent cells accumulate three to five times more iron than quiescent cells? Now I asked Dr. Black is cloning. Is the iron causing the senescence or do senescent cells just bioaccumulate everything else that they can, he doesn't know.

[00:53:55] My bet is that one of the contributors to a cell becoming [00:54:00] senescent and dysfunctional is the high amount of iron that it absorbs. And I'll just leave it at that.

[00:54:05] Keith Norris: [00:54:05] Right. And I, I agree with you on all those points. Um, it's interesting that, so there's a couple of points I'd like to make. Number one, I happened to be reading a book right now.

[00:54:15] It's called a summer moon. It's an excellent book. If anybody is in any way interested in the Americans, write another one down the the, the uh,

[00:54:25] Carl Lanore: [00:54:25] summer moon.

[00:54:26] Keith Norris: [00:54:26] Summer moon, right. And this is about the Comanche's in the, in the great Plains. They were. The schiz Indians in the great Plains, right? Nobody met. They were expert horsemen.

[00:54:37] They were, they were excellent athletes on the horse and on horses. Equestrians they were the only American Indian tribe that actually fought from horseback. It actually in within the battle, most tribes rode horses into battle state overs. Not the, not the Commanchees. They rode into battle. They were amazing.

[00:54:58] What did they subsist off [00:55:00] of? Buffalo. They followed the Buffalo herd. It was everything about the Buffalo. They ate it head to tail, uh, kept the hides, yada, yada, yada. Now we don't know exactly, I mean from anecdotal tales that you would think all they ate was Buffalo and they were nomadic. They followed the Hertz.

[00:55:17] So, you know, maybe 95% of their diet was in fact, meat. Fat. Internal organs. All of these others,

[00:55:24] Carl Lanore: [00:55:24] we know what their lifespan was. Do we know anything about their life span? How long

[00:55:27] Keith Norris: [00:55:27] days? So this is the other thing you have to look at to lifespan, right? Were there old Indians are right? Yes. But how many did they lose in childbirth?

[00:55:36] How many did they lose them? Warfare. I say we're a more fairing.

[00:55:40] Carl Lanore: [00:55:40] Yeah, it's a hard, it's hard to tease that out,

[00:55:42] Keith Norris: [00:55:42] right? So there's that too. Now. Was there something genetic within the, within the Commanchees that allowed them to, to take in all this meat. And two, it wasn't like they were sedentary. I mean, they were moving with the herd and they followed the, the hurts of Buffalo, right.

[00:55:56] They wrote all day. They worked all day. They moved [00:56:00] all day. And you can better believe if they were embattled as much as they were, they bled quite a bit too. Um, so the, so I'd just throw that out there. The other thing, I don't know if you've ever had McKayla Peterson on your show. So she's super, super interesting story and I'll try to wrap it up really, really quick.

[00:56:15] Um, McKayla Peterson is Jordan Peterson's daughter.

[00:56:18] Carl Lanore: [00:56:18] Oh yeah. He just got sick. I heard, I'm sorry. I hope he's doing better.

[00:56:22] Keith Norris: [00:56:22] Right? So when she was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis at like three years old, you know, she was, she never walked properly as an infant, and she had this weird gait and yadda, you'll have to have her on the show.

[00:56:34] They'd tell her if her full story is just heartbreaking what she went through as a youth, um, chronic inflammation. The doctors couldn't figure it out. They had no idea what was wrong with her. Uh, flash forward, she went off. Uh, she missed a year of a year or two or high school, um, which is depressed, just, just having a hell of a time.

[00:56:52] Um, she went off to university and things got worse, right? Because she did the university thing, Hey, I'm away from home and start drinking and partying, yada, yada, yada. [00:57:00] Her health took a dive. She got to the point of suicide. In thought, I have one of two choices. I can figure this out or I'm going to take myself out.

[00:57:09] I can't continue to live like this. Some through some act of the university, whenever she heard about gluten, she had no idea what gluten was and she thought too, you know, she looked at the health ramifications and she thought, Hey, maybe if I cut gluten out of my diet, maybe that might help. She's grasping for straws at this point.

[00:57:25] Well, in fact, she did and she felt better, but not all the way better. So she thought, well. Maybe I'll eliminate something else. And she just went through this a laundry list of elimination, elimination, elimination. She ended up eating only red meat and felt spectacular. All of her symptoms cleared. She went off of all her medications, all the everything.

[00:57:45] Right now she's, I don't know how many years into this, and now she was told she could never conceive. She now has a lovely baby daughter. Um, she looks great. She has zero symptoms anymore. She eats only meat and only red [00:58:00] meat specifically. And she will tell you this, that diet works for me with my conditions.

[00:58:06] Carl Lanore: [00:58:06] And if she's still menstruating, she's actually protected.

[00:58:09] Keith Norris: [00:58:09] Right? Right. Exactly. That's the other, that's the limit point. Right. And she says, the state works for me, and it's not like I don't want to reintroduce foods into my . She

[00:58:20] Carl Lanore: [00:58:20] said I would have if she can't.

[00:58:23] Keith Norris: [00:58:23] She said, um, w whatever. She has 26, 27 years old.

[00:58:26] She said, I would love to go out with my friends.

[00:58:28] Carl Lanore: [00:58:28] I have a pizza. I'm a pizza pap person,

[00:58:31] Keith Norris: [00:58:31] right? You has to order just a ribeye and nothing else. And Oh, by the way, you have to watch the way you cook. You can't cross contaminate, yada, yada, yada. She's like, I'm that person that I have to be that person. I would love

[00:58:42] Carl Lanore: [00:58:42] to just go to a restaurant.

[00:58:43] Interesting fact about iron overload and women, uh, menstruating women don't have iron overload issues until post-menopause. They stop writing right? It would make sense that if you looked at [00:59:00] menstruating women, non menstruating women in the middle, we should see something that points to iron in those who take birth control.

[00:59:09] Because most birth control pills, you eliminate your menstrual cycle for a number of times a year, but not all of them and or you just bleed less. Right? So you would say, well, if this is true about iron, then menstruating women are protected. Postmenopausal women or not. So those who take certain types of birth control should be in the middle.

[00:59:35] They are,

[00:59:36] Keith Norris: [00:59:36] right.

[00:59:36] Carl Lanore: [00:59:36] They are so, so the, the, you know, we are not paying attention to iron. It's not sexy,

[00:59:42] Keith Norris: [00:59:42] right?

[00:59:42] Carl Lanore: [00:59:42] It's not sexy at all. But I'm telling you that if you're on the carnivore diet. I would say just donate blood every two months. If I'm a, maybe I'm an idiot and maybe you're not doing anything good for yourself, but you're doing something good for somebody who gets your blood, do it every two months because once [01:00:00] that iron accumulates in your body, I there is iron in my body from the hamburger I had when I was 13 years old.

[01:00:07] That's a very sobering thought,

[01:00:09] Keith Norris: [01:00:09] right? Yup. That's it. I totally agree with you on that point.

[01:00:13] Carl Lanore: [01:00:13] I want to ask you one, I want to ask you one more light and rod. Question, and then we're gonna we're gonna end the interview. Okay. Sounds

[01:00:20] Keith Norris: [01:00:20] good.

[01:00:20] Carl Lanore: [01:00:20] Where do you stand on a G?  cellular.

[01:00:26] Keith Norris: [01:00:26] Wow. That's a, that's a crazy top. I will say this, you know, it was a, in the forties we didn't know a whole lot about radiation.

[01:00:34] Right. We had the idea that if you can't see it, it can't hurt you. I think we know a lot better now. I would say the same thing with that type of energy. Right? I, I, I, and I think this too, I think some people are much like, like a lot of things. Some people are much more sensitive to it than others, and that might be because their systems are already.

[01:00:57] Overloaded with 10,000 other things. Right. And 

[01:01:00] [01:01:00] Carl Lanore: [01:01:00] also could be because of the iron content of your body, because you become more of an antenna. But go ahead. I don't want to get back.

[01:01:06] Keith Norris: [01:01:06] I was going to wrap around to that great carrier for, yeah, you turned into an antenna. Um, but yeah, I, I, I do, from everything that I've taken in, and again, I'm a critical thinker, right?

[01:01:18] I, I try not to put on the tin foil hat too early, but I think that is a high, powerful. High powered energy that we don't know a whole lot about how it affects the body. I will say it's got to affect us on a cellular level somehow. And for some people, I think it affects them negatively. And I think those people who, who claim to be affected by it, I mean, if you look at people who live near those towers, right, there's a higher incidence of cancer leukemia.

[01:01:50] Yes. Yeah. You can't ignore that information, right? You can't sub. There's a correlation there. Right, and maybe it's, maybe it's a time distance [01:02:00] correlation. I don't know. Maybe for someone who lives a far away from a tower and is only a con, so to speak, a consumer of that, you know, maybe that's a different story.

[01:02:09] Maybe that's not as detrimental. I don't know. But, uh, I would say I would shy from it until I know more. Yeah. And I definitely would not live near a tower. That's the one thing I do know.

[01:02:21] Carl Lanore: [01:02:21] So, so I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll leave this last little tidbit for the critical thinkers out there. So I used to be in the land mobile radio business.

[01:02:28] I was actually in IMTS mobile telephone and back in the day, Motorola introduced trunking radios. These would 900 megahertz. Radios that use multi-channels because back in the old day, you repeat, or if it had 30 people on it and somebody was talking, you can't talk. It was busy. So Motorola came out with trunking where they could actually put one transmitter up that had a tone on it.

[01:02:50] So that's where you have your, your two air radio parked. Then when you hit the push to talk, it looks for an empty channel and it transferred you to that empty channel and your, your message went out [01:03:00] and it's hit that guy's phone, his phone transferred to that channel. You guys talk? No waiting for someone to hang up.

[01:03:06] And th the introduction of trunking is what gave rise to cellular telephones. Cause once they had this for two air Raiders, they're like, Oh, we can do this with mobile phones. We can put thousands and thousands of people on a single system instead of 60 people on one channel. So when Motorola introduced trunking radios, there was something interesting about them.

[01:03:25] The antenna was about this long. Now keep in mind a quarter wavelength. Is what drives the antenna size. The one quarter of the wavelength was this big, but they had this big coaxial math at mast, right. And I talked to an engineer at the land mobile radio show when trunking first came out, and I said, why is this antenna on this mass?

[01:03:49] And he said, well, we've done some studies in it could contribute to the formation of cataracts. So we don't want the two way radio radiating directly at your face. [01:04:00] So we put it on this 14 inch mast, so it's radiating up here. Enter cellular telephones in the antennas built right into the thing, and it's radiating right into your face all the time while you're on it,

[01:04:10] Keith Norris: [01:04:10] right?

[01:04:11] So

[01:04:12] Carl Lanore: [01:04:12] you know whether or not you, and you said something earlier that I want to close on, creature comforts are something that we are driven to want. Oh, it's status. You know, Oh, I've got the latest this, but creature comforts aren't always good for the creature that's using them.

[01:04:29] Keith Norris: [01:04:29] That's absolutely true.

[01:04:31] Carl Lanore: [01:04:31] And you said that at the beginning

[01:04:32] Keith Norris: [01:04:32] of the show.

[01:04:33] Absolutely

[01:04:34] Carl Lanore: [01:04:34] true. Um, Keith, it's great having you on the show. We need to do this more often. The website is paleo fx.com the coupon code is super human radio 30 to save a whopping 30% off. Even the low price one, the $150 ticket, you'll save 30% off by using that, and Elisa and I will be there. Oh, we're going to be there this year.

[01:04:56] I've missed it too long and I want to be around all these people they've been on, the, [01:05:00] all of them have been on. Most of them have been on my show over the years. So it gives me a chance to hang out with them.

[01:05:05] Keith Norris: [01:05:05] I'm telling you, Carl, it's the best networking experience you'll ever have, rubbing elbows with these people, and you'll flush out your show for the,

[01:05:12] Carl Lanore: [01:05:12] for the rest of the year, right?

[01:05:13] For the rest of the year. I'll have everything already lined up. Thank you for being on the show. Please send my love to Michelle. Hope her ankle. Is it her ankle that she broke or

[01:05:22] Keith Norris: [01:05:22] right ankle. Yeah,

[01:05:23] Carl Lanore: [01:05:23] that's a, that's a touchy one. There's a lot of, uh, there's a lot of fragile things going on in the yang, right?

[01:05:28] I'll hope she recovers to 100% and we'll see you in April.

[01:05:32] Keith Norris: [01:05:32] All right. Take care

[01:05:33] Carl Lanore: [01:05:33] and we'll see everybody Monday. There's no show. Tomorrow I'm off. Thank you for listening and watching today, and please share the shows. Uh, and become part of the movement to save more people in this country. [01:06:00] .