[00:00:00] Carl Lanore: [00:00:00] Hey, Hey, welcome back to another episode of super human radio. Today is April 16th and here in the U S or at least in Louisville, Kentucky, we are 33 days into a self quarantine because of Corona virus. And as you can see, my hair's getting gray and it's not because I'm under stress, it's because I color my hair.
[00:00:23] And, uh, when I don't get to see the a hairdresser often enough, uh, the gray starts to pop out. Um, we have an important show today. You know, so many of us have experimented with the ketogenic diet. Uh, it's been around for a long time. Dr MALDI Pasquale first talked about the ketogenic diet 35 years ago when he wrote his book.
[00:00:45] The anabolic diet, uh, where he, uh, used both, uh, uh, staying in a, in a ketosis throughout the week, and then carb refeeding during the weekends, uh, as a method of building more lean muscle without accruing more body [00:01:00] fat. Uh, we've talked about the ketogenic diet. For a variety of reasons. Uh, therapeutic reasons.
[00:01:07] But nobody really has unlocked why the ketogenic diet does what it does. And there's a lot of things in science like, cause there's a lot of things in science that we know work, they do these things and we don't really know why they work, but as long as they work, we keep using them. And the ketogenic diet is one of those things.
[00:01:25] And today, dr Detlev Boysen is joining us again, uh, to talk about this. Uh, before we get started. A couple of things I have to say first, and that is, uh, our title sponsor is legendary foods and they have a product, uh, so many products, great products, uh, and eat legendary.com. And they actually, uh, offering my audience a very, very unique opportunity.
[00:01:52] And that is to get any of their products, not the tasty pastries, uh, for 15% off [00:02:00] when you purchase $100, a more, uh, worth of products. And that is a, at eat legendary.com if you use the coupon code relief one five, they have great, uh, nut butters. And they have great seasoned almonds. I love them. In fact, I always bring a jar of nut butter with me to the studio today.
[00:02:22] It's a pecan pie flavored almond butter because I use this as dessert. There's no added sugar. And it's vegan. Uh, it's a, so for those of you who are concerned about that, uh, in this particular case, it has to net carbs and just a one gram of sugar per serving and it tastes decadent. It makes me feel like I'm having dessert.
[00:02:46] I take a spoonful or two after a meal, and. Finish the meal with that, and I feel very, very happy with my decision. You can go to eat legendary.com and show them some love because they, they underwrite the show in a huge [00:03:00] way. So check them out and without further delay, I will be joined by my guest now as soon as I get his camera brought up here.
[00:03:10] Oh, look, there's the, there's the legendary foods, uh, images that I had hoped to put on the air before, uh, bringing you on. But, uh, we are joined today by, uh, let me get rid of that. Dr Detlev. Boysen how are you, dr Boysen?
[00:03:27] Dr. Detlev Boison, PhD: [00:03:27] Doing fine. Thank you very much,
[00:03:28] Carl Lanore: [00:03:28] and thanks for being back. So you kind of, uh, uh, got us involved in today's show because the last show we did, you mentioned, uh, we kind of segue to the.
[00:03:39] The ketogenic diet, and you have done a lot of research. Your most recent paper is the new insights into the mechanisms of the ketogenic diet. What I said at the beginning of the show is pretty true, right? But we, we, we, we know that the ketogenic diet is effective in managing a, um. Uh, seizures, uh, and epilepsy and, and fact, uh, it's [00:04:00] not just a temporary, the, the, the changes to the brain seem to stay when young children go on the ketogenic diet to eliminate epilepsy, correct?
[00:04:10] Dr. Detlev Boison, PhD: [00:04:10] Yeah, that's correct.
[00:04:11] Carl Lanore: [00:04:11] Yeah. So, so we've been using this diet. Now there's even greater use of it for fat loss. Uh, there are people using it as a form of. A elimination diet to figure out why they have autoimmune disorders. There are people that are using it for, uh, uh, certain types of migraine headaches.
[00:04:31] Now, I had a, uh, a gal come on the show from Sweden a while ago. I can't think of her name now. I'm so sorry to do this to her, but, uh, she had published a paper that showed that it was very effective. In a, in treating a migraine headaches, which at one time were actually called, um, a hypoglycemic headaches because there was a tie to blood sugar dropping, the headache coming on.
[00:04:58] Uh, and so that makes perfect [00:05:00] sense because if you're producing ketones, then the brain doesn't need glucose and it would resolve, but we really never understood what the magic was of this diet. Right.
[00:05:11] Dr. Detlev Boison, PhD: [00:05:11] That's correct. Yeah.
[00:05:13] Carl Lanore: [00:05:13] So what did you do? What did you look into? What, what, what, what, what, what research proceeded this research that you felt that you needed to compile this information?
[00:05:22] Dr. Detlev Boison, PhD: [00:05:22] Yeah. So the history of the ketogenic diet actually goes back a hundred years. So in 2022 will be the 100th anniversary of the ketogenic diet. Um, so a physician coach a company in 1922 at this. It prescribed the water diet, uh, to, uh, patients with epilepsy. And he found out that 22 days on a water diet, which basically translate into complete fasting volition seizures in pediatric epilepsy patients.
[00:05:57] So this is basically the origin of the [00:06:00] ketogenic diets. Um, the finding that depriving the body of NRG, um. Uh, trigger, uh, reactions in the body that can prevent epileptic seizures. Um, so the reason, uh, why the water diet works is, uh, because if the body has no energy to burn, um, from external food, it starts to build fat.
[00:06:27] And burning fat creates a ketone bodies which provide an alternative fuel to the brain.
[00:06:36] Carl Lanore: [00:06:36] So. Do. Did we know that it was ketones back then? Did, when did we discover the ketone body?
[00:06:46] Dr. Detlev Boison, PhD: [00:06:46] Yeah, so this, uh, happened in, uh, 20, 30 years after those initial findings that the mechanisms were found out that, um, the fasting actually increases, uh, ketones in the body [00:07:00] and the design of the rationale that ketogenic diet has originally been basically to. Um, trick the body, uh, in, um, yeah. Um, creating a state of fasting.
[00:07:17] So if you're depressed, the body of a carbohydrates, the body is a false to be on a fats as the major kettle resource, which increased ketones in, initially it was thought that, um. The benefits of the ketogenic diet are exclusively based on increasing the number of kitten bodies, um, which have documented benefits.
[00:07:44] But there's been an explosion of research in the last, um, 10 to 15 years, um, uncovering several different mechanisms, uh, how the ketogenic diet is beneficial for the [00:08:00] brain and beneficial for our health.
[00:08:03] Carl Lanore: [00:08:03] So this is obviously an evolutionary gift. Uh, the fact that we are hybrids, that we can run on glucose, we can run on ketones.
[00:08:13] We can even run on fatty acids, uh, in their, uh, actual form and to some degree, uh, amino acids. The, this really makes us, uh, fare better in times of. Uh, a lack of, of, of access to food. Are we the only creatures on the planet that produce ketones or do animals produce ketones as well?
[00:08:36] Dr. Detlev Boison, PhD: [00:08:36] Yeah, and it was, can produce ketones as well.
[00:08:38] Okay. Now, this isn't why we can use animal models in our research to study specific mechanisms of, of the ketogenic diet.
[00:08:46] Carl Lanore: [00:08:46] Okay. Um, so when we look at the ketogenic diet, is everything good about the ketogenic diet, a result of ketones, or is there other mechanisms. Uh, that occur [00:09:00] when our body goes into ketosis.
[00:09:02] That'll also providing some of these therapeutic benefits that we see, like in the case of seizure, uh, see treating seizures.
[00:09:12] Dr. Detlev Boison, PhD: [00:09:12] Yeah. They had at least a dozen different mechanisms, um, involved in the beneficial effects of the ketogenic diet. And that makes the ketogenic, that powerful in contrast to conventional.
[00:09:24] Um, targets selective, uh, drugs, um, that frequently don't work in, uh, treating seizures and epilepsy. So the mechanisms that we are studying in my lab is, uh, based on findings that the ketogenic diet increases, uh, Denis in the brain and now Denison as an endogenous protective molecule that blocks seizures and prevents neurons from degenerating and dying.
[00:09:54] And, uh, we discovered that Denison also influences, [00:10:00] uh, DNA methylation. So we have an epigenetic components through which a ketogenic diet via a dentist, some can have a long lasting epigenetic effects, uh, which is an exciting, um, new, uh, effect of the diet, explaining why the diet could be. A disease modifying in a variety of different diseases.
[00:10:27] So
[00:10:27] Carl Lanore: [00:10:27] the ground, I'm sorry.
[00:10:30] Dr. Detlev Boison, PhD: [00:10:30] Yeah. So as the body ages and during variety of disease processes, there isn't as successive edition of ma adaptive, uh, methylation, uh, events, uh, in DNA. So during disease progression, DNA becomes progressively hypo methylated, which also happens during aging and also in a disease, uh, progression of Alzheimer's disease and [00:11:00] Parkinson's disease and a variety of other conditions.
[00:11:03] It's this constant edition of wrong method groups, uh, to the DNA which, uh, drives, uh, disease processes. And, um. And our Denison has the unique ability to prevent those maladaptive methylation changes, and therefore is ideally positioned to, uh, prevent, uh, degenerative disease processes in the brain and a ketogenic diet by mobilizing a Denison.
[00:11:34] And it can have, um, longterm benefits based on this mechanism.
[00:11:39] Carl Lanore: [00:11:39] Now when we talk about the ketogenic diet, we're talking about any diet that shifts the body from utilizing glucose as its primary substrate to utilizing ketones. So w, and the reason I say this, as you pointed out, the water diet, which theoretically is just fast, a longterm, [00:12:00] fast.
[00:12:00] Causes the body to start to run on ketones, but, but even a fasting mimicking diets where you're eating 600 calories a day or less, they seem to increase ketone production. So my point is, what would you. Would you agree it's to two parts? Would you agree a, any dietary intervention that causes the body to produce ketones is a ketogenic diet, but do you have to get ketones into those two and higher millimoles to see any of the benefits or the normal person wakes up?
[00:12:38] If they fast for 12 hours, they may be at a half a millimole to one millimole in the morning. Is that effective?
[00:12:45] Dr. Detlev Boison, PhD: [00:12:45] Yeah, that's a very good question. So this research, I'm kind of doubting, um, the hypothesis that the amount of ketones is directly correlated to the therapeutic benefits. And so it has been shown that, [00:13:00] uh, a large variety of different diets such as the Atkins diet or intermittent fasting.
[00:13:08] Um, without leading to a very high levels of ketones are of tremendous benefits. And the reason is possibly because the human body has never been made to constantly beyond carbohydrates. Now, what our ancestors didn't have a reliable food sources. Um, they ate when they had something and they fast it in between.
[00:13:35] So there was. So the human body is basically designed to adapt to fast in conditions. So the, um, the biggest risk factor is the constant supply of endless amounts of NRG in particular, in the form of easily digestible carbohydrates. Um. So it kinda genic diet basically is based on two principles. One is restriction [00:14:00] of carbohydrates, um, and the other principle is introducing more ketones.
[00:14:06] Um, but just reducing carbohydrates. Uh, and such, um, has is already tremendous benefits.
[00:14:14] Carl Lanore: [00:14:14] In fact, we see a, there was a study published, uh, last month that showed that a low carbohydrate diet can actually correct, uh, the, the things in the brain associated with aging. So that was very promising. Also. Um, so when we talk about that, because there has become an engine, a cottage industry, uh, around the ketogenic diet today, we have.
[00:14:43] Ketone supplements. These are ketone salts. They are, uh, , uh, bonded to calcium, magnesium, sodium, uh, and, and such. And we also have ketone esters, which are a bit more [00:15:00] sophisticated and seem to have the ability to deliver. A more blood level of ketones faster is, is adding ketones into a diet, even if you're eating adequate carbohydrates.
[00:15:14] Does that show any benefit benefits at all or, or is it that you have to be in that fasted state, uh, and shifting to utilizing only ketones by suppressing the availability of glucose to really see the therapeutic benefits of ketosis.
[00:15:30] Dr. Detlev Boison, PhD: [00:15:30] Yeah. It depends on the correct balance. So if you overdo carbohydrates, you won't have any benefits by adding ketones to the diet.
[00:15:39] But if you add ketones to that to, to your diet, you can be a little less strict with what you eat. Um, so the benefits of, of scape tones is, uh, they are direct fuel for mitochondria. They fit into the crypt cycle in mitochondria, which is a biochemical [00:16:00] reaction psycho that produces ATP, uh, which is the, the energy currency of all says.
[00:16:07] So by. Adding more ketones, you increase the bioenergetic capacity of mitochondria. So my two Conrad able to produce more energy, uh, in a fast away, um, which is, um, y'all have benefit for our athletes, athletes, uh, favor ketogenic diets. Uh, it is known that, uh, farm run us. On a ketogenic diet. Once they're done with the marathon, they're not tired.
[00:16:38] They could run another one because, uh, having, having ketones is fuel is basically an endless supply of energy. So there's never a carbohydrate crash and the engine just keeps running on, on, on kittens.
[00:16:57] Carl Lanore: [00:16:57] Talk to me about the difference in terminology. We have [00:17:00] people out there who are taking. Ketone supplements and companies selling ketone supplements making claims that they put you into ketosis in just a few minutes, but isn't ketosis the phenomenon of the body making.
[00:17:18] And then depending upon its own key tones it because I get, I get frustrated. I think ketosis means your body is making the ketones. Quito lysis means your body is using ketones, and so if you're taking a supplement that's going to make levels of ketones in your blood, go up. That doesn't mean you're in ketosis.
[00:17:40] Your body didn't make those. Am I picking, am I being a nitpicker here?
[00:17:45] Dr. Detlev Boison, PhD: [00:17:45] It's a little nitpicky, but yeah, the definition of ghettos is, is basically, um, yeah, depending on how you interpreted. So, um, the correct interpretation [00:18:00] of ketosis would be that the body produces its own ketones, ketones. But the way ketosis is diagnosed is, is measuring kitten, um, levers.
[00:18:11] Um, and the blot. So that means high levels of ketones in the blood. Uh, just interpret that as a kid tells us, no matter where the ketones come from, whether they are coming from, um, supplements or from your own body.
[00:18:27] Carl Lanore: [00:18:27] Interesting. Um, what about sleep on the ketogenic diet? You talk about the relationship of adenosine.
[00:18:37] Uh, and ketosis, right? So ketosis has the ability to increase adenosine in the brain or decrease the Denison in the brain
[00:18:45] Dr. Detlev Boison, PhD: [00:18:45] increases of Denison. And
[00:18:47] Carl Lanore: [00:18:47] so then in theory. One would sleep better if they're in ketosis because we know a dentist, a and accumulation causes sleep pressure, the desire to fall asleep.
[00:18:57] They said sensation of being tired. [00:19:00] Do we see that in real world? Do we see people who are, once they are adapted and they're in ketosis, they sleep better?
[00:19:08] Dr. Detlev Boison, PhD: [00:19:08] I'm not going to weigh off any studies that have addressed this question systematically, but based on the underlying. Mechanisms. My prediction would be yes.
[00:19:20] Carl Lanore: [00:19:20] So then we have a nation of people who are sleeping poorly. Would it be sensible for someone to look at maybe a ketone Ester as a bedtime supplement because the ketones would increase a dentist's seed production and keep the person sleeping longer?
[00:19:37] Dr. Detlev Boison, PhD: [00:19:37] No. Even better would be carbohydrate restriction for dinner.
[00:19:42] Carl Lanore: [00:19:42] Yes. Yeah.
[00:19:43] Dr. Detlev Boison, PhD: [00:19:43] Carbohydrates are. Uh, for fight and flight responses, they provide, uh, high levels of short term energy before you go to sleep. You don't need this kind of energy. The carbohydrates can be [00:20:00] useful during the day when you need a quick boost of energy. But, um, having a late night carbohydrates snack.
[00:20:09] Um, adding carbohydrates that you really don't need when you sleep is probably a very bad
[00:20:15] Carl Lanore: [00:20:15] idea. In fact, you're so right. And we've talked about this on my show for probably a decade, that having cob carbohydrates with your last meal or even late in the evening, uh, causes insulin insulinogenic response that when you're asleep around middle of the night, you become hypoglycemic.
[00:20:37] Because your body doesn't have the mechanisms of daytime, the adrenal glands are running and they're helping to manage and liberate glycogen, glycogen, and glucagon. And so what happens is people who have. Carbohydrate meals before bed, almost always wake up two or three o'clock in the morning wide awake.
[00:20:57] And they, and they, and usually they'll even complain about [00:21:00] having anxiety or getting sweaty. They're getting hot sweats. And what I've discovered over the past 10 years is that is a drop in blood sugar. That body in order to respond to it must wake you up and get the adrenals going so that blood sugar can stabilize.
[00:21:19] And so you're so right. The late meal last meal should never ever have, uh, maybe some vegetable spinach. That's one thing because that's a very low impact form of carbohydrates, but definitely not. No starches and sugars. You're absolutely right about that.
[00:21:36] Dr. Detlev Boison, PhD: [00:21:36] Yeah. Also, if you think about, um, the carbohydrate break during night is frequently for way too short.
[00:21:44] You're having a late night snack snack with carbohydrates, um, and maybe just six hours, also sleep, and then the carbohydrate rich breakfast. Now think of donuts or whatever. [00:22:00] Uh, that's. That's an insufficient carbohydrate break overnight, and they have been very interesting studies on mental health conditions.
[00:22:10] Um, just bye. Uh, prolonging the carbohydrate free period overnight has tremendous mental health benefits.
[00:22:21] Carl Lanore: [00:22:21] So a, Georgia is a, I'm going to try to pronounce your name. George . Uh, I believe he's a physician in Greece also. Uh, Tom Vaka. . Uh, and it's, it's, he's in Greece, so it's, it's late there. And he says, good evening.
[00:22:36] He says an exogenous ketones can also raise insulin. Is that correct?
[00:22:44] Dr. Detlev Boison, PhD: [00:22:44] Yes, that'd be new. So, yeah.
[00:22:45] Carl Lanore: [00:22:45] Yeah. So why would, why would we need insulin in the face of a substrate that, uh, insulin doesn't affect, or does insulin effect ketones? Does it go make them go into tissue the way it makes glucose [00:23:00] go into tissue?
[00:23:03] Dr. Detlev Boison, PhD: [00:23:03] no. The thing is when you add exogenous, um, keto ketones are exogenous supplements, they are added on to what you, your own body produces. Um, and um, if you have an excess in nutrients, the body can turn them into sugars.
[00:23:30] Carl Lanore: [00:23:30] Ah, interesting. And the body will turn them into sugars, I would imagine. Of course, the presence of ketones probably has some sort of feedback mechanism to the body saying, Hey, we're running out of glucose.
[00:23:41] Maybe we need to make some, is that a reasonable thought?
[00:23:48] Dr. Detlev Boison, PhD: [00:23:48] Constantly. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:23:50] Carl Lanore: [00:23:50] So Mark, uh, decor. So also, uh, posted something very interesting. He says the keto diet seems to work wonders for people with bipolar and other mental disorders as well [00:24:00] as Alzheimer's. Do you think this is because ketones are optimal or because we have trashed our body's ability to use glucose with, uh, with crappy diets, and we just.
[00:24:15] Are unhealthy.
[00:24:18] Dr. Detlev Boison, PhD: [00:24:18] Yeah. That's a big correlation between unhealthy diets and mental health disorders. Um, so it's certainly the case that excessive consumption of carbohydrates is, is not good for the brain. So this is very well established. And. Um, of course, ketones and such if they have their own beneficial effects.
[00:24:38] But it's the combination of ketones with carbohydrate restriction that I think is, is, uh, it's doing the
[00:24:45] Carl Lanore: [00:24:45] trick. I'm actually gonna order some ketone esters today. I have ketone salts. But I, I don't like the, all the excess sodium and calcium. I just, I just don't want it in my body. I noticed that when I use ketone salts [00:25:00] longterm, I start to hold water and maybe other people don't.
[00:25:03] This is just me, but I think ketone esters are a better alternative because you're not getting the additional electrolyte minerals, uh, in with it. So you have any opinions on ketone esters versus ketone salts.
[00:25:20] Dr. Detlev Boison, PhD: [00:25:20] Yeah. I think needed. I agree. Yup.
[00:25:25] Carl Lanore: [00:25:25] Um, yeah. You don't need all that extra sodium and calcium, especially when we know. Studies have been published that show that calcium supplements can increase your risk of heart attack, and then you're taking a ketone product and it's got 600 milligrams of of Unbound calcium in there.
[00:25:41] You know, it just hits the bloodstream too fast. I just think it's a bad idea. We're going to take a quick commercial break. When we come back, I want to get back into the study. I want to understand what you found when you produce this paper, and maybe more importantly, what surprised you. Okay. All right, so stay tuned.
[00:25:59] We'll be right back with more [00:26:00] supernumerary. This is the superhuman channel evolution. Just got kicked up a notch.
[00:26:10] Mark the parcel has the, uh, checking out websites. There's a website called HV, M N or product. Um, he says it's expensive, which it is. It's $90 for three servings. Sad, but, uh, it gets him a, his blood ketone levels to 3.0 for hours, hours and no sodium, no calcium. No, no magnesium, no potassium, none of that stuff.
[00:26:36] And there's another one I'm going to look into this Mark. I am definitely thinking about getting myself some ketone esters cause I like using, I can, I actually feel euphoric when I, when I'm fasted and I supplement with with ketones, but they're the salts I'm using and I just don't like using the salt.
[00:26:54] So I think I'm going to check this company out for sure. Do you, do you use any ketone esters doc? [00:27:00] Okay.
[00:27:02] Dr. Detlev Boison, PhD: [00:27:02] Okay. So a couple of hydrates only once a day.
[00:27:06] Carl Lanore: [00:27:06] And that's in the morning?
[00:27:08] Dr. Detlev Boison, PhD: [00:27:08] No,
[00:27:08] Carl Lanore: [00:27:08] the evening. Oh, what are you doing doc? Are you telling us not to do that? I know, I know. I know. Okay. Do as I say, not as I do. So, um, let's talk about your research.
[00:27:23] This was a, this was a, a, a, um, what do I, what do I want to call this? Say, a review of available research? Correct.
[00:27:31] Dr. Detlev Boison, PhD: [00:27:31] Yes. Yeah.
[00:27:32] Carl Lanore: [00:27:32] So what did you discover when you started to look at this? What, what, what really is the beneficial mechanisms that we see when you're on a ketogenic diet?
[00:27:42] Dr. Detlev Boison, PhD: [00:27:42] Yeah, what I really find fascinating is that there is not a single, um, mechanism that explains the effects of the diet.
[00:27:51] It's, it's a complexity of the diet and the interaction of several different mechanisms that all play together. So [00:28:00] they at least a dozen different mechanisms, uh, which all play together and compliment each other in a, in a perfect manner. And, um, and this is important because a lot of processes in the brain that can go wrong in, that are also important for nominal brain health are based on complex network in the actions.
[00:28:21] The brain is a complex network system. Um, if you want to influence the brain, you, you cannot do this with isolated targets or isolated mechanisms. So if you find, um, ways to influence the entire network on a biochemical, epigenetic and, uh, uh, bioenergetic level, um, uh, that's, uh, an amazing opportunity to, um, to, to fine tune the brain and to, um.
[00:28:53] Yeah. Modify disease processes, which can even be [00:29:00] lasting.
[00:29:01] Carl Lanore: [00:29:01] So we know in the case of Alzheimer's disease. Alzheimer's disease is actually a form of insulin resistance of the brain and feel glucose cannot get into the cells and function, and ketones don't have that problem. So when a person shifts, uh, their diet, or they start to use things like ketone esters, we see the brain, they become more lucid, they become more aware and more cognitive because now there's this new fuel running the brain.
[00:29:29] If one were to go onto. A ketogenic diet. Given the fact that, well, let me, let me rephrase this. If one goes on a true ketogenic diet where they are producing very, very low eating low carb and producing ketones throughout the day, regardless of whether it's one millimole or three millimole, will insulin receptors become sensitive again.
[00:29:57] Dr. Detlev Boison, PhD: [00:29:57] It has been shown that, um, uh, [00:30:00] ketogenic diets, um, uh, can be highly beneficial for, um, prediabetes, but also for type one and type two diabetes.
[00:30:11] Carl Lanore: [00:30:11] Type one w now that. So I guess if you're a type one diabetic and you're running on ketones, there's no worry about becoming hypoglycemic because you're running on ketones.
[00:30:21] So what, when a type one diabetic goes deep into a ketogenic state, can they stop using their insulin? Mm,
[00:30:33] Dr. Detlev Boison, PhD: [00:30:33] probably not. But it's. Improves overall health and wellbeing,
[00:30:39] Carl Lanore: [00:30:39] and they probably can use less and less because their insulin is based on glucose load or carbohydrate load. Right,
[00:30:46] Dr. Detlev Boison, PhD: [00:30:46] right. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:30:48] Carl Lanore: [00:30:48] So it sounds to me that if someone wanted to, uh, improve insulin sensitivity and perhaps reverse type two diabetes, that the ketogenic diet would be the way to go.
[00:30:59] But. [00:31:00] The on ramp to the diet is difficult. People always talk about keto flu and they talk about, you know, becoming a keto adapted and sometimes it could take weeks where people just feel horrible because their bodies are not used to making ketones or using ketones. Is there any way to improve the transition?
[00:31:22] Dr. Detlev Boison, PhD: [00:31:22] The question is whether the strict diet is really needed. Uh, so the strict ketogenic diets as certainly needed for certain types of severe epilepsies. But, um, for a lot of other health conditions, uh, a more lenient diet might be completely sufficient cause I'm not very strict. Diet is really needed for, um, for all of them.
[00:31:49] Oh, desire benefits.
[00:31:52] Carl Lanore: [00:31:52] Now, what about red meat? Is red meat acceptable on a ketogenic diet? I hear people say that, um, because it's high in [00:32:00] leucine that it may not be the ideal thing for a ketogenic diet.
[00:32:06] Dr. Detlev Boison, PhD: [00:32:06] Um, and so in, in low amounts it's okay. Yeah. So yeah, as, as also with, um, certain vegetables. Also with meat, it shouldn't be a predominant part of the diet.
[00:32:21] So, um, cause amino acids can also be turned into sugars.
[00:32:27] Carl Lanore: [00:32:27] Glycine, right. Glycine is a highly glycolytic amino acid. You can find that in collagen and fell on. The only reason why I asked that because I just found a new company. Uh, that is now becoming a sponsor and they have the best steaks in the world.
[00:32:44] Uh, well, no. So do you know, have you ever heard of the Piedmontese breed of cows in Italy? No. So Piedmontese are myostatin no cows. [00:33:00] So they, they get two and three times the muscle that an average cow gets faster. And the beauty of it is that their meat is so much more tender and has a very distinct buttery flavor.
[00:33:13] And we have a new, we have a new company that's coming aboard board as a sponsor called Piedmontese beef. Their website is piedmontese.com P, I E D M O N T E S e.com and right now if you go there and buy just $50 worth of product or more and use the code SHR, they'll give you two additional free 10 ounce New York strips.
[00:33:35] I've been eating this meat for the past week and a half and I can't get over. How great it tastes better than any beef I've ever had in my life. And I say that with all honesty because my audience knows I wouldn't promote something on this show, uh, that I, I truly didn't experience or believe in. But they're a fantastic company and I don't want to give up eating red meat, but I would like to produce while ketones.
[00:33:58] So theoretically. [00:34:00] If I am in a key to ketogenic diet where I'm utilizing intimate and fasting for 14 to 16 hours a day, which I do regularly, I get my ketone levels into that one millimole area pretty easily. I can have red meat with my one meal a day. Right. No problem.
[00:34:17] Dr. Detlev Boison, PhD: [00:34:17] Sure.
[00:34:18] Carl Lanore: [00:34:18] Yeah, that'd be no problem.
[00:34:20] What about measuring ketones? Uh, dr Boysen, there are so many different ketone meters out there. There's the one where you blow into it and it measures ketones in the exhale, the breath, there's the blood level ones that you prick your finger, like a glucometer. Uh, w does it matter which one is, which is more effective to actually tell if you are reaching a deep level of ketosis.
[00:34:44] Dr. Detlev Boison, PhD: [00:34:44] Yeah. Then once that correct ways to measure ketones and
[00:34:47] Carl Lanore: [00:34:47] blah,
[00:34:51] people argue that just because there's ketones and blood, your body is not necessarily using those ketones for energy. Is that nonsense?
[00:35:00] [00:35:00] Dr. Detlev Boison, PhD: [00:35:00] Um, well this is true. No, I mean, um, it's already a correlation, but what the body is actually doing, um, um, cannot be, uh, determined by what you find in the blood.
[00:35:14] Carl Lanore: [00:35:14] What exactly were the seven several mechanisms that you found in your research that seemed to all be evident when you're in a ketogenic diet?
[00:35:24] I understand the increase, uh, production of adenosine. We know that ketones, but what other things do you see that are promising indicators of the ketogenic diet.
[00:35:36] Dr. Detlev Boison, PhD: [00:35:36] Yeah. So there's a lot of exciting new findings. So one I'm finding is that certain fatty acids in particular, they can conoid acid. Um, also is X as a receptor.
[00:35:52] Lykens. Um, so get decanoic acid can block, uh, unpowered receptors, which propagate [00:36:00] excited re singers in the brain, sort of through this mechanism. Uh, decanoic acid has a direct effect on them pending neuronal excitability, and that's a completely new effect, which has nothing to do with ketones and which has nothing to do with, uh, a glucose deprivation.
[00:36:17] It's a direct effect of, uh, they can know like acids. Um. Which, uh, is a, is a medium chain. Um, um, uh, Trek was right. Yeah. Um, there's also an interesting, um, uh, metabolic pathway based on, on lactate because lactate can be shuttered between astrocytes and neurons in the brain. And this, uh, uh, lactate, uh, shattered and enzymes that, um, uh, lactate into.
[00:36:51] Pure weight and the other way around, uh, play an important role in maintaining this balance, which also leads to new [00:37:00] therapeutic opportunities.
[00:37:04] Carl Lanore: [00:37:04] So are the dik dik, dik, dik Cohen, eight fatty acid, draconic fatty acid that is derived from the food you're eating, or does the body convert the fat. Into that form of fatty acid.
[00:37:24] Dr. Detlev Boison, PhD: [00:37:24] it's a nitro fatty acids. Um, it's contained in, uh, several foods that are normally used in the ketogenic diet. But, uh, you, you can also get, uh, decanoic acid now as a supplement.
[00:37:40] Carl Lanore: [00:37:40] So, which foods are higher in decanoic acid?
[00:37:43] Dr. Detlev Boison, PhD: [00:37:43] So it's physically food that is high in saturated fats. Um, um, a good source for, for those compounds is coconut oil, for
[00:37:55] Carl Lanore: [00:37:55] example.
[00:37:59] So we did a show [00:38:00] last week, uh, looking at, uh, fish oil. Uh. And the EPA portion of fish oil, purified EPA and its effects on outcomes in ischemia, both the heart attack and stroke. And the, uh, the scientist that I had on the show, uh, we, I asked him if he thought all saturated fat was bad. And of course he's this, he's a medical doctor and he's a.
[00:38:28] A professor and so on, and he pretty much said, yes, you know, you should stay away from saturated fats. And that has been one of the big things that most people outside of a very small communities of people who believe in the ketogenic diet fear the most. They say, Oh my goodness, I'm going to be eating all this saturated fat.
[00:38:49] Isn't that bad for my heart? Do we have any research that shows. That in a, in a ketogenic diet, eating saturated fat is not [00:39:00] harmful. It's not gonna give you a heart problems.
[00:39:04] Dr. Detlev Boison, PhD: [00:39:04] So saturated fat and cholesterol, I have been demonized since the 1970s, but there's no really solid evidence that those fats are really that bad.
[00:39:16] It's a combination of those fats in combination with, um, uh. I live in some carbohydrates that makes that those pets in the absence of carbohydrates are not necessarily
[00:39:29] Carl Lanore: [00:39:29] bad. So what is it about the carbohydrates? The carbohydrates help oxidize these fats. Is that where the problem arises
[00:39:37] Dr. Detlev Boison, PhD: [00:39:37] yet?
[00:39:38] Carbohydrates, um, in, in general cause of the pro inflammatory state in the body. Um, so carbohydrates influence pH level and, uh, trigger. Yeah. Um, yeah, blue splits all the inflammatory responses in the body, which, which then can also lead [00:40:00] to the damage of, um, uh, vascular Chong. Which then triggers triggers a cascade of injury to the vascular chore and the in this, in combination with lipid, um, is, is, is then not a good thing.
[00:40:18] Carl Lanore: [00:40:18] Is there any evidence that ketones themselves have any effect on senescent cells?
[00:40:30] Dr. Detlev Boison, PhD: [00:40:30] Not directly, I believe.
[00:40:32] Carl Lanore: [00:40:32] Okay. Um, we know that being in ketosis, uh, increases sirtuins production, correct? Yeah,
[00:40:41] Dr. Detlev Boison, PhD: [00:40:41] exactly. Young
[00:40:43] Carl Lanore: [00:40:43] sirtuins have been associated with longevity and, and, uh, mitigating, uh, poor health. How do the sirtuins fit into this discussion?
[00:40:57] Dr. Detlev Boison, PhD: [00:40:57] That's an interesting mechanism [00:41:00] because, um. Um, so one, one of the cure that is produced by the ketogenic diet is a beta hydroxybutyrate and better hydroxybutyrate. Um, uh, it's linked to the, a certain, uh, metabolism and, uh, is an inhibitor of, uh, histone, uh, DSET lasers, which are enzymes that remove, um.
[00:41:28] That's the two group from, from his stones. That's one of, uh, one of the epigenetic mechanisms of the ketogenic diet by which, um, the way the genes are expressed is regulated,
[00:41:43] Carl Lanore: [00:41:43] fell basically, we protect DNA. Then you're saying right.
[00:41:48] Dr. Detlev Boison, PhD: [00:41:48] Yeah, it's fine too. It's the way that genes are expressed and those are longterm effects.
[00:41:53] And the outer epigenetic effect is linked to a Denison as an inhibitor of DNA methylation. [00:42:00] I think that's the frontier in ketogenic diet research to understand how dietary changes, um, directly translate into. Um, DNA and his stones and the way that genes are regulated, and this can have a tremendous impact on, on health and, um, um, aging and disease.
[00:42:25] Carl Lanore: [00:42:25] Interesting. We're going to take our last commercial break. When we come back, we'll wrap it up and we'll find out what dr Boysen wants people to take away from his most recent paper. Stay tuned. This is the superhuman channel where we use oxygen for the power of good.
[00:42:45] Welcome back. We're talking with dr Detlev Boysen from Rutgers university. Great school in New Jersey. And, uh, we're talking about the ketogenic diet and some new [00:43:00] insights into some of the benefits. Would you say that the ketogenic diet is a good anti-aging diet?
[00:43:10] Dr. Detlev Boison, PhD: [00:43:10] Possibly, yes. Yes. Um, the big cause of those epigenetic effects because during aging, there are a lot of adaptive changes to DNA and also to his stones.
[00:43:22] And, uh, having a diet that influences those epigenetic processes can basically, it's like wiping a hop this clean of, of, uh, of maladaptive cha changes. Um, uh, so I believe, uh, it's, it's, it's certainly beneficial to prevent, uh, aging and degenerative processes, but of course, the ketogenic diet, there's a lot of Hyperbiotics.
[00:43:48] Um, but I think, um, for most. Uh, people. I think just being a little more cognizant on, uh, what is consumed and when. Uh, can have, [00:44:00] uh, tremendous benefits. Um, so I would not recommend anyone, every, everyone to go onto a ketogenic diet unless it's medically justified. But just being more aware of, um, the fact whether your body really needs carbohydrates at a certain time, um, of the day or in what amounts, uh, it can have a tremendous benefits.
[00:44:23] I mean, I think the most. the most important thing is, is to provide your body with regular carbohydrate breaks, whether it's during the night or, uh, during periods of fasting or augmented with a, with a certain diet, uh, is probably not that essential. But I think the body really needs some carbohydrate breaks, at least every now and then.
[00:44:47] Carl Lanore: [00:44:47] You know, I, I have a feeling that if you were able to do a review. With the focus of the ketogenic diet and senescent cells, uh, because this, you know, senescent cells all the rage [00:45:00] right now, we understand that senescent cells bioaccumulate. They poison the cells around them. They are associated with the phenotypical signs of aging, and I, I'm almost, I'm going to say this, but I may be wrong.
[00:45:13] The ketogenic diet upregulates a and P K, right?
[00:45:17] Dr. Detlev Boison, PhD: [00:45:17] That's correct.
[00:45:19] Carl Lanore: [00:45:19] The ketogenic diet down-regulates M Tor. Okay. Those are the two things that, so when you, when you periodically showed off as you said in the beginning of the show, we're not, we're not supposed to be eating continuously. They're supposed to be this oscillation of fasting that helps us produce ketones and trigger autophagy and then eating, which triggers mTOR and repair.
[00:45:51] And this is supposed to happen, but today everybody is eating all the time. I predict that if you, if you took the time to [00:46:00] do the research, to do a review, you would be able to say assertively that the ketogenic diet most likely takes senescent cells and turns it back into and cells or vanquishes them entirely.
[00:46:15] Because the magic of older research, whether you're taking rapid myosin. Whether you're taking a zipper, myosin, which has been shown to eliminate 99% of senescent cells in just five days. They all suppress mTOR and turn on amp K for short burst of time.
[00:46:32] Dr. Detlev Boison, PhD: [00:46:32] Yeah,
[00:46:35] Carl Lanore: [00:46:35] that would be as, I think
[00:46:37] Dr. Detlev Boison, PhD: [00:46:37] that's a very interesting hypothesis.
[00:46:39] I think you might be right.
[00:46:41] Carl Lanore: [00:46:41] Prove me right.com on all I don't have, I don't have your brain. You have to do this for them. You have to help me here.
[00:46:48] Dr. Detlev Boison, PhD: [00:46:48] Yeah. Yeah.
[00:46:49] Carl Lanore: [00:46:49] Okay. This has been a great discussion. I appreciate you coming back on the show. It's always fun to have you on the show.
[00:46:56] Dr. Detlev Boison, PhD: [00:46:56] And again, thank you very much.
[00:46:57] Carl Lanore: [00:46:57] Thank you. You take care. And that's, [00:47:00] that's it for us. Uh, we do not have any other show this week. I'm off Friday, and so, uh, hopefully you guys enjoyed the shows. Please share our shows, share them around, tell people about the show, help them live longer and healthier lives. That's all we're looking to do. I have no interest in fame.
[00:47:18] Look at me. If I want them to be famous, would I come in and dress like this? Would I have a beard? You can tell Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, I shave Monday. I don't shave Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday. You could tell my beard gets gray by Thursday. I'm not interested in being famous, but I really do want people to be healthy.
[00:47:36] I do want people to have the information to make good decisions. That's all I want. That's it, and you can help me help them by sharing the show as often as possible. We'll see everybody Monday, have a great weekend, stay Corona virus free. Take care [00:48:00] .
