[00:00:00] Carl Lanore: [00:00:00] hey, Hey, welcome back to another episode of super human radio. Today is. Monday April 20th, 2020. And we continue to be confined. Lucky for me, I'm the only one in this studio, so I'm still social distancing. I can't touch any of you out there. So you're safe. We have a great show today. This is a, an advanced nutrient therapy, a base show.

[00:00:23] We're going to be talking about the role of nicotine , vitamin B, three, nicotinic acid, uh, and it may be something that can be used to treat a certain types of eye diseases. Uh, that are result from the development of fibrotic tissue with the dr Tim Blenkinsop. I have to say that a couple of times I'll get it right.

[00:00:46] And, uh, but before we do that, we have to thank our title sponsor, uh, none other than, uh, legendary foods right now. Legendary foods has a special, uh, since we are all stuck in our homes and we're eating, you can eat stuff that [00:01:00] isn't gonna make you fatter. Of course, they have fantastic, uh, nut butters and, uh, and also, um, seasoned nuts, seasoned almonds, uh, that are just unbelievable.

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[00:02:04] Show them some love. They are a title sponsor and a without further delay. Let me hide some of these images and bring my guest on today, dr Timothy Blanken sob. How are you doing? Dr blankets? Up.

[00:02:18] Dr. Tim Blenkinsop, PhD: [00:02:18] Great. Great to be here. Thank you so much for inviting me.

[00:02:21] Carl Lanore: [00:02:21] No, this is, this is so, you know, my audience knows, I've been doing this show for 14 years.

[00:02:25] It'll be 15 years. Actually. This is the longest running health and fitness podcast in the world. Can you believe that? It's amazing. Uh,

[00:02:32] Dr. Tim Blenkinsop, PhD: [00:02:32] but I,

[00:02:35] Carl Lanore: [00:02:35] but, but everybody knows that I started out, uh, going to school to study optometry. So the, I has a very, very special interest for me. So this study, what, what. What studies preceded this that made you think we need to find out more about this?

[00:02:52] Dr. Tim Blenkinsop, PhD: [00:02:52] Yeah, that's a great question. So it really started during my postdoc. Um, uh, one of the things that I wanted to [00:03:00] do was see if I can culture, um, certain cell types of the eye from human cadaver donors. And I was struggling quite a lot. And luckily for me, there was this great paper in 2009 on the use of nicotine in my to differentiate STEM cells into certain cell types of eye.

[00:03:19] And so I figured, why not try it during my dissections and cultures? And it turned out to. Have, uh, worked and helped, uh, faintly and, uh, it was so impressive. I, I needed to better understand what the mechanisms behind this was, so I continued to study it.

[00:03:37] Carl Lanore: [00:03:37] You know, it's a, it's funny, we don't talk about the things that differentiates themselves.

[00:03:42] We talk about STEM cells and people are actually going out and getting STEM cell injections, but without things like vitamin B3. Or a real active vitamin a retinol. Um, we don't see the type of [00:04:00] tissue coming from these STEM cell therapies. And the truth is we have STEM cells in our body is part of a part of the repair system in our body, but they don't always repair things because they lack the differentiators.

[00:04:17] So

[00:04:19] Dr. Tim Blenkinsop, PhD: [00:04:19] that's exactly right. Yeah. Yeah. So, and it's, that's, that's, that really segues very well into the work that I do, uh, during my posts. Like that's exactly what, um, the group that, uh, we, we was covering. It's kinda my, that could, uh, help, uh, differentiate these cells. And, uh, in the lab of dr Sally temple, we, uh, discovered a subpopulation of retina cells that had a STEM cell characteristics.

[00:04:50] And, uh, and we continued to, to say that, and, uh, these STEM cells can differentiate into good cells. And they can differentiate into [00:05:00] cells that can lead to damage of the, of the eye. And that's exactly the, uh, what, what I was studying with this, uh,

[00:05:09] Carl Lanore: [00:05:09] study. So, uh, this type of, uh, an I a disease, right? It is a form of disease, uh, can strike people just from aging or trauma or actually the one that I found most interesting.

[00:05:25] Because we have such a large population of type two diabetics, this is a, something that happens to their eyes, this fibrotic development, and we're going to get into how it works,

[00:05:33] Dr. Tim Blenkinsop, PhD: [00:05:33] right? Yeah, that's exactly right. So as we age, um, what we do to our bodies, uh, had an impact on how our cells respond and, uh, that includes diabetes, um, and just the aging process itself.

[00:05:50] Um. Uh, Lisa wear and tear on her body. And, and there's a part part of our, I call them the vitreous body, [00:06:00] and it's a gelatinous, uh, part of our eyes. And as we age, it starts to shrink. And that pulls on the different other parts of the eye, including the retina, which is the light sensing part of the eye.

[00:06:14] And this, uh, once that happens, it could lead to tearing retinal. Taryn. And these little retinal pears, uh, can, uh, induce this wound healing response and which are wound healing response is good. Um, but over time, if this continues to reoccur, that could be to a chronic state of wound healing. And an exacerbation of, um, this five Brodick growth.

[00:06:41] And that's what happens. Uh, as we age, uh, we see higher increased incidence of these fibrotic growth or what we call Effie retinal membrane around the surrounding the retina. And those epi retinal membranes can contract and I can imagine contraction on the [00:07:00] retina, which is. It's a part of your brain that's sticking out of your, your skull.

[00:07:05] Uh, and if you, if you are to start to contract on that tissue, very sensitive, delicate tissue, at least the retinal detachment and vision loss. And

[00:07:15] Carl Lanore: [00:07:15] I, I was thinking of it analogous to. If you have a movie screen and all of a sudden you start having wrinkles in it, you know you have something on the back pulling this way and something on the side pulling this way, and all of a sudden the image becomes distorted because the plane is no longer flat.

[00:07:33] Dr. Tim Blenkinsop, PhD: [00:07:33] Yeah, that's exactly right. It says, if somebody, imagine your competitor just pulling your comforter. Awesome. You're off your bed and creating all those phones. That's exactly what happens to the retina.

[00:07:45] Carl Lanore: [00:07:45] Yeah. Now, um, I also want to say to the audience that's listening and watching a live that this research may not be exclusive to just the eye.

[00:07:58] So what we're going to be [00:08:00] talking about here is a natural process in the body of healing, the development of fibrotic tissue. These new fibers that are designed to repair, whether it's on your surface of your skin or inside your body. This process of, uh, of the development of fibrotic tissue is a natural process, but it goes awry sometimes and he like go get too aggressive right.

[00:08:23] Dr. Tim Blenkinsop, PhD: [00:08:23] Yeah, no, that's my understanding. Definitely. Yeah. And so what typically induces these preretinal membrane is the, uh, secretion of certain inflammatory cytokines. And what we've found, um, was there is a whole set of cytokines that get activated, um, when our retinal tears. And so we conducted a cytokine, uh, screen.

[00:08:49] Just asking, uh, what do these cytokines do to ourselves in culture, in our little, uh, in veto, uh, human cultures. And we were [00:09:00] able to find that, um, TJ and beta and TNF alpha, which are in sanatory cytokine. Produce this, uh, this epithelial to mesenchymal transition. So what's an epithelium enough to deal with them is, uh, a cuboidal cells collected as a monolayer, and they typically.

[00:09:20] Form the borders of, um, regions in our tissues, functional units in our tissues, and those, the shape is very important for their or their function. And when the cells get exposed to TGF beta or TNF alpha. They change shape and they become more mesenchymal. And this is a type of state that's more elongated and it loses the cuboidal shape and it, uh, reduces its barrier function.

[00:09:51] And, and that leads to a, um, just, uh, regeneration of the function of this, the monolayer. And. So [00:10:00] that happens with either TGF beta or TNF alpha. And what I found was that when you add TGF beta and TNF alpha together, you get something completely different. It's a whole different beast. And that leads to this, uh, aggregation of contractile membranes.

[00:10:20] And we did a previous study in our lab where we were able to show that these aggregates in tissue. I do in fact contract using contraction inhibitors. We could relax these, these membranes. So they are contraction dependent.

[00:10:36] Carl Lanore: [00:10:36] So does it sound like we understand that today inflammation is a critical part.

[00:10:44] Of a healthy body, but inflammation is like you deploy it, you fix something and it goes back. It's like the army, right? But, but chronic inflammation is when the army has no general directing it. And it just kind of just goes to war with anything that it encounters. And when [00:11:00] we look at the, uh, diabetic obese model today, we know that these individuals produce a lot of inflammatory cytokines in fat cells and everywhere else.

[00:11:11] And so is, is this the problem? Does that, does the whole, um, inflammation and then resolving process go awry where it's like this inflammation all the time and nothing ever gets resolved?

[00:11:26] Dr. Tim Blenkinsop, PhD: [00:11:26] That's definitely the case in terms of a proliferative diabetic retinopathy, uh, with, uh, with regards to, uh, proliferative richer retinopathy where, uh, these epithelial cells of the retina really participate.

[00:11:40] I typically, in acute, um, uh, induction of an inflammation that. Is, uh, that comes from like the combination of the cytokines coming together to really, uh, lead to accelerated growth of this mesenchymal membrane. But I think that, uh, [00:12:00] ultimately the chronic stress underlying, um, the, the, the normal state of, of, uh, a person, uh, homeostasis is.

[00:12:13] Like definitely contributes to it. Right.

[00:12:16] Carl Lanore: [00:12:16] Um, okay. I'm going to get this question up here first and then I've got a backup question. So, Victor, John, Andrew, ms  is a friend, uh, through the show. He's been on the show. He actually did an amazing documentary that you may have heard of, or you would love, love to watch.

[00:12:31] I project called, uh, he's, they call him the blind biohacker. So he's losing his vision, and he has, he did a great, an amazing Victor, what's the name of the, uh, what's the name of the, uh, the documentary, I'm sorry, I is it called the blind biohacker that's just your nickname from it. But anyway, he asked, could, could this therapy work for retinitis pigmentosa?

[00:12:54] The beat B3, uh, have an effect on that particular condition.

[00:13:00] [00:13:00] Dr. Tim Blenkinsop, PhD: [00:13:00] So retinitis pigmentosa could, could benefit. Uh, I haven't studied the effects. Some of the, so when we, so when we treat, um, or when we conducted these analyses, we conducted, uh, RNA seek. You can think of the tissue within without vitamin a P three.

[00:13:19] Right? And, and there's certain, uh, gene expression profiles that, uh, that same chest that, that nicotine might, could, could benefit. So written. I notice pigmentosa has to do with, um, uh, a number of, uh, mutations. And, uh, those genes popped up in the, in the RNA secret, uh, dataset.

[00:13:41] Carl Lanore: [00:13:41] And it popped

[00:13:42] Dr. Tim Blenkinsop, PhD: [00:13:42] a little bit. It needs to be studied

[00:13:44] Carl Lanore: [00:13:44] that, that, that disease is actually a result of the, uh, diminishing, uh, capacity for the retina to produce re, uh, rhodopsin and the other, I can't think of the other, uh, pigment that's in the retina that actually [00:14:00] causes you to see colors, but that's just a depletion of those, those chemicals right.

[00:14:05] Dr. Tim Blenkinsop, PhD: [00:14:05] Yes. Okay. Yeah.

[00:14:06] Carl Lanore: [00:14:06] What about, what about macular degeneration? Is there a fibrotic component to macular degeneration?

[00:14:12] Dr. Tim Blenkinsop, PhD: [00:14:12] Yeah. Lauren Moore, uh, report, uh, suggest that, and in fact, uh, a previous studies, uh, where, uh, we investigated the impact of nicotine and  on STEM cells from patient. With macular degeneration, uh, suggest that Nixon and I could improve the AMD, uh, Meclizine generation pathogenesis.

[00:14:35] And that study, uh, discovered a number of, um, of, uh, epigenetic regulators that, uh, that it seems nicotine in my, uh, tribes in order to reduce, uh, that, that AMT, uh. That's the Genesis. And that includes the histone, but it also includes DNA [00:15:00] repair mechanism.

[00:15:02] Carl Lanore: [00:15:02] So a, Victor's a documentary was called my neuroplastic adventure.

[00:15:08] It's a really good documentary. You, you, I know that you would enjoy it. He's a great individual and

[00:15:12] Dr. Tim Blenkinsop, PhD: [00:15:12] we communicate. Yeah.

[00:15:14] Carl Lanore: [00:15:14] So, um, and then also, I need to put this up there. Uh, Victoria Valeho says my favorite PhD. There you go. Um, so you said that, and then we're going to dig deeper into the study in a second, but you've said some things that really piqued my interest.

[00:15:32] So do the epithelial cells actually differentiate back into mesenchymal STEM cells or the mesenchymal STEM STEM cells infiltrate the epithelial layer.

[00:15:44] Dr. Tim Blenkinsop, PhD: [00:15:44] Yeah, that's an excellent question. And it's something that we were really curious about ourselves. And so, uh, one thing that we should, uh, should bring up the point is that the retina derives from the neuroectoderm.

[00:15:58] And so these, [00:16:00] uh, the cell type that we are talking about, uh, the epithelial cell type in the Runa is the retinal pigment epithelium, and those are neuroectoderm derived. And so they, they should not, uh, exhibit a mesenchymal, uh, characteristic at all. Uh, however. When they are perturbed in particular ways, such as being exposed to TGF beta and TNF alpha.

[00:16:23] Simultaneously, they do progressive and epithelial to mesenchymal transition. And, uh, for most, most of the time we thought that that was irreversible. And so that once the, so yeah. Move past a certain level of, of a transition, we cannot revert them back. Um, and with the promising results that we were, we were finding at the very beginning of this study, we thought, okay, so we find that nicotinamide can inhibit.

[00:16:56] The epithelial to mesenchymal transition. What if [00:17:00] we start with a RTE so that have undergone an episode's missing, and we'll transition Kenny now add nicotine amine and will it be able to revert it back to an epithelium phenotype? And in fact, that's what this study shows that nicotine and might, it will reverse epithelial to mesenchymal transition.

[00:17:22] And, uh, what is termed a mesenchymal to epithelial transition.

[00:17:28] Carl Lanore: [00:17:28] So, for my own selfish reasons, and we, we, I shared this with you. So I have a, a scar on my cornea from an accident, uh, an ulcer. And it's cloudy. It's been getting clearer, believe it or not. And I have been taking, uh, fairly high doses of, uh, nicotinic acid time-release, you know, they use it a gum, so it just doesn't.

[00:17:50] Hit you fast and make you flush, but it's, it's just pure, plain old, you know, 3 cent nicotinic acid. And I definitely noticed some changes. I like, it baffled me a [00:18:00] couple of days ago where I actually thought I, I had my contact lens on and I, and I didn't. I was like, wow, I can see so clear all of a sudden.

[00:18:06] So would it pay for me to get. A, a, a, a S, a M, a sterile B3 raw powder and put it in a buffered aqueous solution and put a drop or two in my eye from time to time.

[00:18:22] Dr. Tim Blenkinsop, PhD: [00:18:22] Well, I'm not a physician. This is not medical advice,

[00:18:26] Carl Lanore: [00:18:26] right? No, I know that. But you have to say that. I know. Go ahead.

[00:18:30] Dr. Tim Blenkinsop, PhD: [00:18:30] But, um, who knows? It does seem that, that Nixon might, uh, doesn't, is, this is not specific to the retinal pigment epithelium monolayer, uh, that, that in fact, uh, we did notice that the other epithelial type can, uh, can respond to nicotine.

[00:18:49] And Mike. Yeah,

[00:18:51] Carl Lanore: [00:18:51] very good. I'm excited now. Um, and of course, uh, Victor says, uh, if you need a Guinea pig, uh, he's actually using some, he, he's [00:19:00] actually had some, uh, uh, peptides, uh, made for him at a compounding pharmacy that we both know about. Uh, and I think he's also using rhodopsin and a couple other things as well, uh, to try to restore and protect, uh, stop the progression of his own vision problems.

[00:19:16] So he said he's interested if you want any Guinea pigs. So there you go. All right, so let, let's talk, let's talk about the, um, the research for a moment. So explain how this study was done. Sure.

[00:19:30] Dr. Tim Blenkinsop, PhD: [00:19:30] Uh, well we start off with a human cadaver, um, donors. So, uh, people who have passed, but, uh, has have signed on to, uh, uh, donate.

[00:19:41] Tissue for research, which is very, very valuable. And, uh, and we try to culture the cells from, from, uh, their donation and, uh, using these cells. Uh, we have a human model in the dish. We have an [00:20:00] aged cell that has the history that that individual lives. So that we can really, uh, dig deeper into the human part of the disease as opposed to, um, animal models, which, uh, compared to any veto animal models are, uh, have some advantages because you have the whole organism, you, you can see how the different parts interact.

[00:20:26] However, if you just want to nail down to the mechanisms, the cellular mechanisms. Then using the human cells makes more sense. And then you can always follow up with, with animal models to just confirm that your potential treatments don't create damage in other parts of your

[00:20:46] Carl Lanore: [00:20:46] body in a living being of some sort.

[00:20:49] Right? Exactly.

[00:20:50] Dr. Tim Blenkinsop, PhD: [00:20:50] Yes. So, so we, we took those South and then we started to ask if we can just maintain the cells as if they were in vivo. [00:21:00] Meaning, can we, can we keep all the features that we find in vivo in our dish? And so that was something that we spent a lot of time on to make sure that our model really replicate, uh, both electric, physiologically immunohistic chemically that the native environment.

[00:21:20] And once we start to feel competent that we in fact have a relatively robust model in veto, then we started to. Treats our in vitro model with parts of the disease that have been found in the literature. And so that includes these cytokines. So we started to treat these cells, these retinal pigment epithelial cells with different cytokines that have been associated with fibrotic disease of the eye.

[00:21:46] And what we found is that. A lot of the cytokines can produce, uh, induce, um, the epithelial to mesenchymal transition in these cells. However, the unique [00:22:00] combination of TGF beta and TNF alpha had a particular effect that just drove it to a whole nother level whereby we didn't just see an empathy, ultimate ECMO transition, but we saw a contractility.

[00:22:14] In the dish, and it resembled proliferative vitreo retinal puppies so well, um, that we wanted to dig deeper into how, um, how the cells transformed so aggressively and, and what kind of proteins start to be expressed in these cells. And, uh. And so first off, we started to conduct, um, RNA sequencing. We took the RNA from these cells in different conditions and conducted a sequencing of their gene expression.

[00:22:47] And then we also did, uh. Chip sequencing, which is chromatin immunoprecipitation sequencing, and that digs into the epigenetics of the cells. We wanted to not only [00:23:00] know what genes are changed, but we wanted to know the how the epigenetic landscape. Changes. And I know you are very interest into the epigenetic changes that occur.

[00:23:13] And so I'm sure your audience is well aware that the epigenetic landscape orchestrates which genes are expressed and when, and, uh, nicotine and  and the NAD pathway is very well known to be a, uh, an epigenetic repair system. That makes sure that it is behaving in the proper way and is capable of, uh, responding to the stimulus in the correct manner.

[00:23:44] And so from those, uh, sequencing and epigenetic analyses, uh, we found certain, uh, pathways that, that were changed. And that included a lot of wound healing pathways, a lot of [00:24:00] angiogenesis pathways, a lot of, um, ms bankable and, and contractile pathways were pulled up. And so, uh, in our previous paper, we did a comparison between, um, within, without nicotine and, and also a pathway came up, which is TGF beta pathway.

[00:24:19] And so we thought, okay. We're connecting these dots here from these different studies. Perhaps nicotinamide could positively, um, affect these, these pathways that are being turned on when TGF beta and Kappa alpha are, uh, are, um, surrounding the cells. And in fact, um, Nixon and my bid proved to, uh, to be able to do just that.

[00:24:44] And so we're really interested in understanding which genes. Nicotine and I that were, was able to turn on. And what pathways are essential for this, uh, this reversion back to an epithelial phenotype. And some of [00:25:00] those, some of the proteins, uh, actually have to do with mitochondrial, uh, repair proteins. And so we do think that the mitochondria are playing a big role in how  is, uh.

[00:25:16] Improving the epicilial state of these. So,

[00:25:21] Carl Lanore: [00:25:21] you know, it's funny, I wrote hard tumor down while we were talking, right? So we know things about solid tumors and they upregulated fi fibrinogen, and that's what makes them so dense and hard. And it sounds to me that, you know, without saying anything about cancer, but it sounds to me that may be a nicotine, nicotine and mine.

[00:25:41] I want to say nicotinic assholes. I'm nicotine and mine may have a value. And that we know that vitamin C actually has a value, not curative, but vitamin C increases collagen production, collagen production, sequesters, uh, single, uh, uh, cells, uh, so that they [00:26:00] don't get land and tissue and plant themselves and start to grow.

[00:26:04] So there's all these different, um, uh, extrinsic. Things going on. So everybody's looking to cure cancer using intrinsic things, but there's all these extrinsic things. It sounds to me like the fibrinogen, the fibrotic process of a solid tumor may, may be a role for B3 in that as well.

[00:26:26] Dr. Tim Blenkinsop, PhD: [00:26:26] Well, if it's true that, um, after, um, bouts of chemo and radiotherapy that, uh, there are some patients that go through an a div treatment and that's, uh, improves their, their response to the chemotherapy and, and, and suggest that they, they could be paying some benefits.

[00:26:47] Carl Lanore: [00:26:47] So, um, a friend of mine who I value his, his brain, we, we had as I was injecting NAD plus a hundred milligrams a week, uh, four doses of 25. [00:27:00] And it's not that much, really when you look at the IVs. But, um, but he, and the reason I'm taking nicotinic acid today, again, I took it years ago because of the whole, you know, HDL, LDL.

[00:27:12] Balancing effects of it. And every stat and drug in the world is held against niacin as the gold standard for managing dyslipidemia. But no one takes niacin to dyslipidemia except people understand that. And so I stopped taking it a long time ago, but then we were talking and he said, you know, you may want to look deeper into the whole NAD synthesis process because.

[00:27:35] And a D is produced on demand, and there are enzymes that get rid of it quickly as well as needed, and it's best produced intracellularly. And when you take the injection, there's no evidence that it's actually getting in the cell. It actually may stay outside the cell, and that may down-regulate the production in the cell.

[00:27:54] He gave me all these things and I thought, you know, dammit, you know, I'm a, I'm a huge fan of, uh, of, of, uh, [00:28:00] um, Oh God, I just. Of ants, not ancestral, but of, of, uh, evolutionary science. I'm a big fan, like, you know, while we try to do these things in outsmart nature, when we realized we should've just did what nature wanted.

[00:28:13] So I thought, well, I'm just going to start taking nicotinic acid again. Let my body produce its own NAD on demand when it wants it, where it wants it in the amounts that it wants it in. And so, um, you know, it's interesting because. Um, one of the things I learned about, uh, nicotinic acid back in 2007 when I did, uh, uh, an interview with a scientist where we were looking at its effects on dyslipidemia, he pointed out that.

[00:28:37] The potassium salts, the flush free niacin doesn't work in, in stimulating the receptor changes in the liver that increase HDL and lower LDL. And so I'm wondering, you're using real nicotinic acid nicotinamide, you're, you're not using a potassium salt or a flush fleet free version that's sold at Walgreens.

[00:28:59] I [00:29:00] wonder if those versions even confer these types of benefits.

[00:29:05] Dr. Tim Blenkinsop, PhD: [00:29:05] Right? I mean, it's, it's definitely possible. Ultimately, anyone over the age of 35 are, is Nicotiana my deficient. And they suspect as we get older, if we don't have the proper, um, the proper. Tools in our tool box. We're not able to continue to maintain the repair at the, at the homiest data static level, at the optimal level, let's say, for your body.

[00:29:32] And so as we get older, if we don't have those supplies coming in, then the body just does what it can. And focuses on what's important, and then leaves the things that are not as important aside and, and, and ignores them. So I think that it's, it's good to provide your body with what is needed so that it has the necessary tools to combat whatever damage occurs.

[00:29:57] And, uh, and so I think that that's, [00:30:00] that's likely a, is what explains the discrepancy between, uh, whether or not nicotine on myEd will increase or decrease. Uh, search wind levels, right? So there's, there's some, some controversy as to whether or not, you know, it's beneficial or not. And I suspect that partially has to do with the fact that.

[00:30:18] If a study is done in a mouse that's, uh, that's adolescent and not the pleaded of certain compounds, uh, that's not going to have the same. You're not starting from the same, uh, health state as, say, an adult human over the age of 50. And so, um, perhaps some of the things are translatable, but not everything.

[00:30:40] And I suspect that, uh, the, uh, some of the results. Suggested that nicotine and Mike can inhibit cert two in pre-doc part search. One levels I likely had to do with, with that difference. And, uh, and we have found actually published in the, uh, the previous paper that, uh, in the [00:31:00] old adult human RPE, when we provide nicotine in my search, when certain one expression actually goes up.

[00:31:06] Carl Lanore: [00:31:06] Wow. That's a, that's, that's exciting because, you know, nicotine is so cheap. It's so cheap. I mean, it's just an easy thing for people to, to, uh. Supplement with to add a little extra to their diet that they're probably not getting in their diet anyway cause everybody's on some sort of restrictive diet, whether it's keto or vegan or, you know, uh, we're missing out on so many different things today.

[00:31:29] Uh, let's take a quick commercial break. When we come back, we'll dive deeper into the study. Stay tuned. We'll be right back with more  human radio evolution just got kicked up a notch.

[00:31:40] Welcome back. We're talking with dr Tim Blenkinsop, we're talking about niacin, a very inexpensive form of B3. It's hard to even find real nice and today at a Walgreens or CVS because all they have is the flush free niacin, which I am. A big believer is not as [00:32:00] valuable. And if you're worried about the flushing, just by the time release.

[00:32:04] Uh, niacin, which uses gum to keep the, uh, powder stuck together. So it takes longer to dissolve in your stomach and, and throughout your digestive track. And you don't get the flushing because it just kind of leaches into you slowly. But I take a thousand, I take 500 milligrams with breakfast, and I take 500 milligrams with the meal that I'll have at the end of today's show.

[00:32:24] And I've been doing it for other reasons, but I have a feeling that there's a lot more value to it then than anyone. Uh, invests in this very inexpensive form of B3. So, uh, I want to ask you, what was most surprising to you? What, what aha moments did you go, wow, we didn't expect that. I have a funny feeling.

[00:32:42] It was the combination of the two. Uh, the, the one plus one equals six, combination of the two, uh, inflammatory cytokines.

[00:32:51] Dr. Tim Blenkinsop, PhD: [00:32:51] Yeah, that's exactly right. That when we found that the, uh, the TGF beta and TNF alpha could produce such a [00:33:00] big effect on, on the behavior of the cells and that it resembled so closely the disease States that these contracts held membranes that are detaching the retina.

[00:33:12] Uh, we, we really wanted to. To begin to what changes are occurring in the retinal pigment epithelium, and then, uh, and then find, find, uh, a compound that could reverse that. And, and so that, that was very surprising when we found that nicotine and mites can reverse them FTO, communicable transition. Uh, the, when we first found that nicotinamide inhibited the EMT, uh, that was exciting.

[00:33:42] And I, it was sort of, um. I was just sort of going out on a limb saying, okay, maybe it works. Maybe it doesn't. A shot in the dark. Let's see if we can reverse this. Uh, the transition. And when I saw that it was reversing within one month, that was [00:34:00] very exciting.

[00:34:01] Carl Lanore: [00:34:01] So when, when, when does, when it reverses, do we see some sort of a.

[00:34:07] Autophagy taking away the unwanted tissue and ending up with a nice flat layer of epithelial cells again.

[00:34:15] Dr. Tim Blenkinsop, PhD: [00:34:15] Yeah, that's a great question. And that's something that we were really interested in studying. We haven't really dug deep into autophagy yet, but that is one of the, the directions that our lab is headed.

[00:34:27] Um, I think that. The changes that occurred was it relates to how the cells change in the first place. So transcription factors, uh, really drive the gene expression changes. And so two of the transcription factors that are most well known in an epithelial to mesenchymal transition is nail and slug. And so we were monitoring these, these genes,

[00:34:56] Carl Lanore: [00:34:56] those are great names, right?

[00:34:57] They go together and slug a now has a whole of a [00:35:00] slug doesn't.

[00:35:01] Dr. Tim Blenkinsop, PhD: [00:35:01] And in fact, those genes, the changes in those genes go together as well. And so we found that, uh, uh, when we treat with TGF beta, TNF alpha nail and slug transcription factors, uh, will go up dramatically. And then when we add nicotinamide, those genes just shut down very dramatically.

[00:35:23] And instead, uh, the genes that are responsible for, uh, retina, um, physiology and retina function, uh, which includes two transcription transcription factor is, uh, MITM and OTX two, those genes returned as well when we add nicotinamide. So. It's not just a generic epithelium, right? It reverts back to its original, uh, epicilial identity.

[00:35:54] And so that is, that's remarkable. It. And, and first for something [00:36:00] so commonplace, like we have to remember that nicotinamide . Is is, uh, upstream of so many processes, which includes fatty acid synthesis and nucleic acid synthesis, and both RNA and DNA. So it's, it's a very general thing. Um, it's almost as ubiquitous as ATP and for it to have.

[00:36:22] A, the ability to, um, to reverse the identity back into the original state. It, it not only shows that our epigenetic state, um, there are still marks that are persistent that once you move towards a mesenchymal type. Dave, you still have some epigenetic marks that are telling the cells. You're still in RPE.

[00:36:50] may be a sick RPE, but you're still RPE, and if you get provided with the right nutrition, you're going to go back. And that's exactly what it does. That's

[00:37:00] [00:36:59] Carl Lanore: [00:36:59] fascinating. Now, that's fascinating. Um, could, could a B three be mislabeled it, could it be an enzyme.

[00:37:09] Dr. Tim Blenkinsop, PhD: [00:37:09] No. But the enzymes that work on, uh, by nicotine and , uh, definitely, uh, play a major role in it.

[00:37:19] Uh, the, uh, presence of it for NAD synthesis. And I think that's the relative expression levels of these enzymes, uh, and not only within the cells, but also in the blood. Uh, also plays a major role in how, uh, NID NAD levels, uh, help to maintain homeostasis in ourselves. And I think that the, and I think that the, the general, um, supply of these, these ingredients, uh, really drive the [00:38:00] expression of these enzymes.

[00:38:02] Carl Lanore: [00:38:02] How long did it take for you to start to see these changes once the nicotine Ahmad was introduced.

[00:38:12] Dr. Tim Blenkinsop, PhD: [00:38:12] Yeah, so it depends on which experiments. Um, if we are just taking, uh, cells from the human eye and trying to plate them, what we found is instantaneously, if we add nicotinamide, the number of cells that survive and attached to the plate.

[00:38:32] Increases dramatically from, let's say, 10% to 40%.

[00:38:38] Carl Lanore: [00:38:38] What is that an indicator of when they take to the plate so easily?

[00:38:42] Dr. Tim Blenkinsop, PhD: [00:38:42] And I think that it's an indicator of their health. Um, one of the, one of the main things that we are starting to observe is that with nicotinamide, these rental thing went up, if you will.

[00:38:53] So, so start to increase their mitochondrial biogenesis. So that these are the engines of the [00:39:00] cell. And, uh, and so once, uh, once you have, uh, more mitochondria available, then you can start producing much more energy. And just the energy by itself will, uh, enable the cells to respond and, and, and try to perform things that it would otherwise not try to perform.

[00:39:22] And I think that that is a really exciting pathway alongside autophagy that are, that is playing a role in, in, um, restoring these cells. And so I think that, that, that was the first really big surprise, that basically within 24 hours, giving the cells and probably faster giving the cells nicotine and amides will allow them to survive.

[00:39:45] And, and, uh. We regained their, their identity.

[00:39:49] Carl Lanore: [00:39:49] Now what about that transition of going from a messing camel stele back

[00:39:53] Dr. Tim Blenkinsop, PhD: [00:39:53] to a, right. Yeah. So that is a little slower process. And, uh, I think that a [00:40:00] lot of things have to be done for nicotine and mind to really have reverse it. And that takes about one month or a good, uh, yeah.

[00:40:11] Carl Lanore: [00:40:11] You know, a lot of these wonderful therapies. Like we did a show on a peptide called  tide, which actually at four milligrams a day for 28 days, caused neuronal sprouting in all tissues. From the cornea to the epidermis and everywhere else. And so I was so excited about this peptide cause I thought, you know, if you've ever owned an old car and the wire harness starts to wear, you know, and all of a sudden dielectric failure happens and every time you turn left, your windshield wipers turn on.

[00:40:42] You know, the body kind of goes through that as you age with the nervous system. I thought, could you imagine literally like regrowing your nervous system? Well. I was so excited about it, and a lot of people were, and some people used it and they saw some changes, but the changes weren't [00:41:00] dramatic. And then I realized, Oh wait, if you don't remove the insult first, then the net changes may be nothing at all, because while you're fixing it, it's breaking it again.

[00:41:10] And so you know, I, when people hear this sort of stuff, they think, okay, I'm just going to take nicotinic acid and this problem is going to go away. None of you are still. Insulting the tissue and causing the problem. It may get a little better, but it's not going to be in a month. It may take 10 years because you break it a little, you know?

[00:41:27] It's like two steps forward. One step back every single day.

[00:41:29] Dr. Tim Blenkinsop, PhD: [00:41:29] Right. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. That's the case, I think. And it always depends on where you're starting from.  the starting state. So, uh, if you are, um, already in having a diabetes and hypertension, it may take a little longer for, for you to reverse some of the, the damage.

[00:41:53] Um, but, uh, yeah, it, it all depends. So

[00:41:58] Carl Lanore: [00:41:58] mitochondrial [00:42:00] biogenesis is a fascinating thing, right? Because we've done shows on Mito farming, you know, all the things you can do, you know, extreme exercise, but not too far where you're causing your body to break down more. And so when you say mitochondrial biogenesis, I'm thinking, wait a minute.

[00:42:14] I would imagine it's not exclusive to just the I, the mitochondrial biogenesis that could be effected from B3.

[00:42:22] Dr. Tim Blenkinsop, PhD: [00:42:22] Yeah, no, I think that it's likely that any soul that is in a stress state and not, um, with, without the proper nutrients, we'll have some, um, inefficiencies and their mitochondria, either they don't have enough or the, uh, the mitochondrial DNA has been damaged.

[00:42:45] And so it doesn't. Perform as efficiency. Uh, also the membrane resistance is very important for it to be able to produce, um, energy efficiently. And so, uh, when it's not in the highest performing, then [00:43:00] the, the membrane resistance, uh, drops, which means that it's a little leaky and so it cannot produce as much ATP.

[00:43:07] And all of these, uh. Sort of all these deaths add up to, um, to not being able to keep up with what your body demands. And, uh, if, uh, nicotinamide is, is growing new mitochondria and their mitochondrial resistant membrane resistance is improving, then you're going to become more efficient and you're going to be able to repair, um, more damage than, than without it.

[00:43:35] Carl Lanore: [00:43:35] We're going to take all that hats off. Sorry. Oh, I'm so sorry.

[00:43:38] Dr. Tim Blenkinsop, PhD: [00:43:38] No, no problem. I was just gonna say, so perhaps, uh, to go back to those, uh, the neurogenesis that you were mentioning, um, you know, it may be that these proteins are providing signals to do something. And, uh, and they do do it partially as much as they could with the supplies given, but perhaps with the proper nutrition nutrition, they would [00:44:00] be able to, to do more.

[00:44:01] Carl Lanore: [00:44:01] Right. No, I agree. I want to take our last commercial break and when we come back, we're going to wrap up the interview. Stay tuned. You're listening to super human radio. You're watching us on Facebook. Uh, we probably have time for one more question too. If somebody wants to post one, we'll be right back.

[00:44:14] This is the superhuman channel where we use oxygen for the power of good. Welcome back. We're talking with dr Tim Blenkinsop. We're talking about nicotinic acid and niacin B3 vitamin. And really, while this show focuses on. A tissue and the ediology of disease States in the eye, it can probably safely be taken as having these types of effects throughout the entire body, which I really am excited about this discussion, especially when you start talking about mitochondrial biogenesis.

[00:44:47] Um, so the, uh, this study obviously was completed how long ago?

[00:44:56] Dr. Tim Blenkinsop, PhD: [00:44:56] Uh, this was just published in, uh, this month [00:45:00] and at the beginning of April, this study, uh, basically spend, uh, I'd say, uh, five years. Of, of work. And, you know, I asked to, uh, thank the people who were responsible for this. Uh, first off, um, my mentor Sally temple, uh, who is also also a senior quote, coauthor of this paper, but also, um, Marie Fernandez, Nathan poles, uh, Lauren shift far enough money and, uh, that Ericsson, uh, and Jenny Sinai are, are some of the main.

[00:45:33] People that, that drove this research along with our collaborator , who did a lot of the epigenetic analysis and sequencing.

[00:45:42] Carl Lanore: [00:45:42] And was this done over there at Mount Sinai? Uh, uh, the facility there, or.

[00:45:47] Dr. Tim Blenkinsop, PhD: [00:45:47] Yeah, so it's been three locations. I can pull a medicine on Mount Sinai, the neural STEM cell Institute, and Stanford university.

[00:45:56] Carl Lanore: [00:45:56] Very exciting. Very. It's really, it's much more [00:46:00] excited. I know your focus is, is on, you know, diseases of the eye, but I, you know, I am so happy that I've been taking a thousand milligrams of nicotinic acid a day for about the past month and I'll continue to take it. Do you take niacin? Just curious.

[00:46:14] Dr. Tim Blenkinsop, PhD: [00:46:14] I do take nights and am I?

[00:46:16] Yes.

[00:46:17] Carl Lanore: [00:46:17] So how much do you,

[00:46:18] Dr. Tim Blenkinsop, PhD: [00:46:18] and I think that, um, I mean, I, I take a 500 milligram, just a little, a little, a little extra because I know it'll, you know, I'm 43 years old. I'm sure I'm deficient of niacinamide, so might as well get my poppy a little extra. But, you know, a lot of the nicotine and my, um. Like a molecule is like a nicotine.

[00:46:44] I am mano, nucleotide, nix,  ride design. I think all of these are beneficial.

[00:46:51] Carl Lanore: [00:46:51] So we know that. A couple interesting things that niacin does, especially if it's the type that makes you flush, [00:47:00] um, it causes a rapid, uh, release of one of the prostoglandins that's associated with, uh, allergic reactions. And if you take it daily, you notice, Hey, I don't get flushed anymore.

[00:47:11] And that's because. These, uh, prostoglandins that are sitting around waiting for something to do. They, they live in a pool and once you deplete that pool, they're not as reactive. And a lot of people who take niacin without recognize, this isn't why they take it. About two or three months into it, they start going, you know, my allergies don't bother me anymore.

[00:47:30] So there seems to have an ability on over-reactive immune systems, which. Pretty much is a problem in us, in our population today. When you look at the vast number of disease state that can be, uh, you know, correlated back to, uh, autoimmunity, which is a, an immune system that's gone awry. Have you, have you noticed any of those changes at all?

[00:47:50] Dr. Tim Blenkinsop, PhD: [00:47:50] I have seen, not personally myself, but I have seen publications that, uh, suggest that, uh, nicotine and MIDE, uh, may, uh, improve [00:48:00] conditions in autoimmune disease.

[00:48:02] Carl Lanore: [00:48:02] And the other thing that's fascinating to me is its role on the microvasculature of the body. Everybody knows that when you get flush, what's happening is, you know, blood flow is increasing all the way out to the periphery of the body.

[00:48:15] And you know, some people get flushed on their face and their back, but you know, if you take it long enough, you start to notice that. Your skin quality changes. And I attribute that to, uh, it actually helps to dilate these very, very small blood vessels in the body. And those very, very small blood vessels in the body.

[00:48:35] I have been assigned now to the development development of what used to be called diabetic neuropathy, but now it's just idiopathic neuropathy. And that's because these blood vessels are responsible for feeding nerves. And you know, if when you were a kid and you sat down on your leg and watched a really good movie, it got up an hour later and your leg was asleep.

[00:48:54] You know, it's, it's numb that it hurts cause the blood flow starts at, well that's the blood flow regained [00:49:00] into, that's feeding these nerves. And now they're saying, you know, a lot of this neuropathy is from, uh, diminishing blood flow to those small blood vessels. And niacin has the ability to reverse that over time.

[00:49:14] Dr. Tim Blenkinsop, PhD: [00:49:14] Yeah, it makes sense that if the, the blood vessels become dilated, then there's going to be increased oxygen to those regions and of course, that that will be good for those towels.

[00:49:25] Carl Lanore: [00:49:25] This is fascinating. Are you already working on your next study?

[00:49:30] Dr. Tim Blenkinsop, PhD: [00:49:30] Next studies. Yes. So we're doing a deeper dive on mitochondrial biogenesis.

[00:49:36] We want to understand what are the key components that are responsible for nicotine and mice produce such a large effect on the number and the quality of my . And we are zeroing in on a, uh, PGC one alpha and, uh, trying to see whether that is responsible. Or at least playing a role [00:50:00] in driving that

[00:50:01] Carl Lanore: [00:50:01] I wish that you would consider moving forward.

[00:50:05] Uh, looking at all of these, uh, uh, cases and therapeutic approaches, both in the open environment or in radio free rooms where freedom frequency has completely filtered out. I have a funny feeling. You're going to see something. I don't know what it's going to be, but I just know that RF incident, RF that we're surrounded in today is, is playing a role on a cellular level now.

[00:50:34] Who knows, maybe it's good, you know, maybe, maybe we're going to be endowed with some superpower someday. I don't know. But, but right now, I think a lot of it is bad. And I, you know, as we talked at the beginning of the show and Motorola, I, when I was in the cellular telephone business, we went to a land mobile radio show in Las Vegas.

[00:50:50] I was based in Las Vegas, so it was easy. We just drove over. And so, um, I, uh, was talking to the Motorola, uh, one of the engineers that actually worked on the [00:51:00] original cellular system that was launched in Chicago. For central telephone of Chicago. And you know, we were talking about the cell phone and you know why it had that big mast.

[00:51:12] And then that tiny little quarter wave, cause 800 megahertz antenna is only about an inch and a half, two inches long. That's all it has to be. That's either a quarter wave or Hey, half wavelength. And, and he said because Motorola knew from their exp, their experience with trunking radios would use those same frequencies, but they will push to talk type radios that.

[00:51:30] That RF in that range caused hyper oxidation of the, of the, of the crystalline lens in the eye. And, and they were afraid that over time it would lead to premature cataracts. And they didn't want mounting lawsuits to come out. And this was before we had all these class action attorneys advertising on TV.

[00:51:49] Did you, you know, toilet paper give you a hemorrhoid, you know, joined the lawsuit, you know? And so, uh, and that's when it dawned on me that, you know. This is before I even got into the conscious [00:52:00] effort to improve my own health. It was like, wow, RF does something to you that you don't see. You don't know.

[00:52:05] It's like magic. It's happening. And when we talk about fibrotic tissue earlier, you said, well, you do know cataracts. It's kind of a fibrotic process, right?

[00:52:14] Dr. Tim Blenkinsop, PhD: [00:52:14] Yeah, that's exactly right. I wrote to the sub deadlines and, um, yeah, I can't really speak to, um, the frequencies. Um. But, uh, I'm sure there are studies out there that, well, we'll pick up some of the points that perhaps certain frequencies, uh, can induce a stress response in the cells.

[00:52:36] Carl Lanore: [00:52:36] Yeah. They're finding out that non ionizing radiation actually has an effect. Now, there's several good studies out there. I want to thank you so much for making time to come on the show. This is fascinating stuff.

[00:52:48] Dr. Tim Blenkinsop, PhD: [00:52:48] Thank you very much for having me. It's been an honor. I've been, uh, I really enjoyed the conversation.

[00:52:53] Carl Lanore: [00:52:53] Take care and please keep me, uh, you have Elisa's email address, so just keep us abreast of, uh, [00:53:00] studies and, uh, we'll get you back on the air right away.

[00:53:02] Dr. Tim Blenkinsop, PhD: [00:53:02] Happy to

[00:53:03] Carl Lanore: [00:53:03] thank you. Stay safe in New York.

[00:53:07] Dr. Tim Blenkinsop, PhD: [00:53:07] Everyone tells safe and healthy.

[00:53:08] Carl Lanore: [00:53:08] Take care. All right, so, uh, that's it for today's, uh, interview. I don't have anything else.

[00:53:13] I hope you got something out of it. I think everybody should be taking niacin. I have to tell you something. Um, you could get the time. Release niacin. Not the prescription sustained release that's different. Naya span is by prescription and it actually has a great deal of hepatic stress. It hurts the liver over time, but plain old, cheap nicotinic acid in a, uh, time-released version, they come in 500 milligram caplets.

[00:53:41] A lot of companies make it, um, start taking, start thought, taking it with a meal. Uh, 500 milligrams a day. Make sure you don't, and sometimes those time-released capsules, the caplets, they will break down faster than they're supposed to and you'll get it.  last night I happened to be talking to Elisa about it.

[00:53:58] I saw my, my nice and [00:54:00] uh, caplet that I took with dinner tonight. Actually. Must've released too fast cause I'm getting this warm sensation on my face and my upper chest. But it goes away in a couple minutes and you know what it's from. So it's not like you're freaking out. Like, Oh, what's wrong with me?

[00:54:13] I'm dying. But I think that people should start considering supplementing with niacin. I've taken as much as 1500 milligrams a day, but I'm right now, I'm on 1,002 times a day. I take 500 milligrams. And who knew that it increases sirtuins that means it has some sort of anti-aging benefits. Uh, mitochondrial biogenesis.

[00:54:33] Oh my God. That's exciting. So, uh, I think it's worthy of your investigation, especially if you're older. Like me, I'm old. I ain't never thought of myself as old, but all of a sudden I got here. All right. That's it for today. Tomorrow is the blueprint power hour. And then Elisa proforma has great shows planned for the rest of the week.

[00:54:50] We're going to start doing a, um. Because she's getting so good at booking these interviews in advance. We're going to start going back to having a show program on the website so people can [00:55:00] go and look and see what shows are playing this week so that they can make their effort to make sure that they, they listen to them.

[00:55:06] I see you tomorrow. Thank you for. Watching and listening and those of you who participated in the Facebook live, thank you for being here. We'll see you tomorrow. .