[00:00:00] Mark David John Evans: [00:00:00] welcome back to another episode of super human radio. Today is April 30th last day of the month, we're going to announce the winner of the be strong BFR system. At the end of today's show, we have a winner. We got, we had so many people sign up for that $429 a blood flow restriction training system. And we have a winner and he will be announced at the end of today's show.

[00:00:23] Uh, we have a great show planned for you today, a guy that I have a lot of respect for, and I got to tell you, this is a book that everybody should read and it's easy to read because he writes in such an interesting way. He tells such a great story that it makes it very, very easy to become engaged and not want to put the book down.

[00:00:42] Of course, before we do any of that, we have to acknowledge the generous contribution to the show that legendary foods, uh, gives us month in and month out. Keep the show going. If you go to eat legendary.com and use the code SHR 10, [00:01:00] you'll save 10% off all orders, including the tasty pastry. If you remember for a long time we did not include the tasty pastry in the discount because they couldn't keep them in stock.

[00:01:10] And if you have one, you'll find out why. Because it is the pop tart 2.0 with the less than one gram of sugar and nine grams of protein. But don't forget about their nut butters and their seasoned almonds. I, I'm telling you, Elisa can't even keep them near me. Did I even buy the big bag now? And they're so delicious.

[00:01:33] And I'm not a guy who likes almonds as a rule. Uh, but let's go ahead and bring my guest on. Let's get him here. Drop some of these images out of the way. I met James nester at a, uh, a quest, uh, think tank, if you will, where many of us arrived, uh, to talk about all of all things, breath breathing, carbon dioxide.

[00:01:57] I learned so much. I learned so much from it. [00:02:00] Uh, from James, he was, uh, he was actually researching for the book at that time, I believe, right, James? That's

[00:02:06] James Nestor: [00:02:06] right. Yep.

[00:02:07] Mark David John Evans: [00:02:07] So I got to ask you, your previous book was on, uh, deep sea divers, right?

[00:02:12] James Nestor: [00:02:12] And that it was on free diving and the human connection to the ocean.

[00:02:17] Mark David John Evans: [00:02:17] And did that peak your interest in the process of breathing? Cause these guys go into the water for how long do they hold their breath for

[00:02:26] James Nestor: [00:02:26] the longest breath, hold on, record is 12 and a half minutes. So,

[00:02:31] Mark David John Evans: [00:02:31] and don't, don't wait. Don't we say like if you hold your, if you have no oxygen or you're not breathing for three minutes, you're brain dead.

[00:02:37] These guys are coming up and they're fine, right?

[00:02:39] James Nestor: [00:02:39] Yeah. Unless you condition your body to handle those States of hypoxia. And these people are just fine because they spend years and years conditioning their body. So no one should go in the bathtub and try to break this record right now. Bad idea. It takes years.

[00:02:54] So when I was out reporting, um, for an article for outside, I met these free divers who were able to [00:03:00] hold their breath for minutes at a time and dive down 300, 400 feet, no fins, no anything just with their natural bodies. So this completely blew my mind and I saw what. Learning how to breathe and holding your breath did for humans underwater.

[00:03:14] But I wondered what the applications were for the rest of us, for people who didn't want to dive that deep for that long.

[00:03:21] Mark David John Evans: [00:03:21] Well, what, so what, what, what were the most noticeable things that these guys that you observed in these divers?

[00:03:28] James Nestor: [00:03:28] Well, they told me the only way to hold your breath for 12 minutes or even for four minutes or even two minutes, is to learn how to breathe.

[00:03:35] So learning how to breathe is the Keystone to free diving. So they all had these enormous chests, these enormous lungs, and it didn't matter if they were short or tall or fat or skinny or whatever. They all had enormous lungs. And they mentioned to me that breathing in these ways also benefits the body.

[00:03:56] For our physical endurance. It helps feel diseases. [00:04:00] Um, it enhances and allows you to live longer and healthier on and on. This whole laundry list of what seemed to me like crazy claims, but the more I researched it over the years, the more I realized they were a hundred percent right.

[00:04:15] Mark David John Evans: [00:04:15] So. And I would have to imagine that, uh, because of modernity, uh, we have a real challenge when it comes to breeding.

[00:04:23] I want to put the book up real fast, uh, for people who are interested in reading this book. I got to tell you, James, I get a lot of books. Um, I get a lot of books, as you can imagine. And people who are coming on the show, they send me books, and most of them, I just kind of glean. But first of all, as a writer goes, you tell an amazing story.

[00:04:45] You also have the most amazing ability to notice little things that when you weave them into the story. I mean, I the only person I can recall that has your writing [00:05:00] style. And maybe I'm wrong, and I hope you take this as a compliment and not an insult, but is Dashiell Hammett. Dashiell Hammett was amazing.

[00:05:09] What?

[00:05:10] James Nestor: [00:05:10] Amazing compliment. No thanks.

[00:05:12] Mark David John Evans: [00:05:12] Dasha. I am a huge fan of Dashiell Hammett, and I can tell you that he writes and he observes the smallest little. Intricacies and details that when you weaves it into the story, you feel like you can visualize, you can feel like you're actually there, and that's how you write your brilliant, Oh,

[00:05:31] James Nestor: [00:05:31] thank you.

[00:05:32] What a, what a wonderful compliment. Really appreciate that. You know, what I've found is most of the stories and most of the interesting stuff isn't where you would think to look. It's always in the cracks. Which is why this book took me so long. I had written a proposal that's a nonfiction where she wrote a proposal, sell the proposal.

[00:05:50] They give you a little bit of cash to go out and write it. So I wrote this whole proposal three years ago, thought I had this whole subject figured out. I said, Oh, this book is going to be easy, and it was in sell six, seven [00:06:00] months after I started writing the book that I realized I was completely wrong.

[00:06:04] That my path was completely wrong and everything that I thought was most interesting about breathing and how we've lost this ability to breathe with several layers deep in this story. So, you know, as a journalist, that's just what you learn to do, is to dig and dig and try to find those little cracks and then to go in deeper and try to find a, a story that's no one's heard

[00:06:25] Mark David John Evans: [00:06:25] before.

[00:06:26] So does that, does that make humans the worst breathers in the animal kingdom? Is that us?

[00:06:31] James Nestor: [00:06:31] That's one of the many reasons all that anxiety, realizing you've done something wrong so. A lot of it is, is due to changes in the human head, skeletal changes that have occurred. This started around, you know, million and a half years ago when we first started processing food.

[00:06:49] What I mean by that is when we first started taking meat, bashing it up against rocks or tenderizing it with, with rocks. So that allowed us to spend [00:07:00] a lot less time chewing, which gave us a lot more energy, which we use to grow a much bigger brain. So our brain was, was doubling in size, but once we started cooking with fire and learning how to process food that way, that released even more energy.

[00:07:15] The brain got so big that it needed somewhere to go. It didn't go to the back of our heads. Instead, it took space from the front of our faces. So a mouse shrunk. Our sinuses shrunk. Everything started shrinking. And so we can blame evolution for part of your, your sinusitis and asthma problems.

[00:07:36] Mark David John Evans: [00:07:36] Yeah, I know.

[00:07:37] We, we are ill-equipped. When you look at other animals on the planet, our nose and this host, this whole, you know, it's actually not designed very well at all.

[00:07:48] James Nestor: [00:07:48] No, it's not. We had a nose that was like this for millions of years. All of our ancestors did, and it was much more efficient at keeping pathogens out.

[00:07:57] And allowing us to breathe through. And so [00:08:00] slowly our nose developed this way, or nostrils facing down, much less efficient. I mean, it didn't hurt us that much. Humans took over the world. We, we get that. Um, but nonetheless, if you look at the jaws of our ancestors, all of these species that came before.

[00:08:16] Homo sapiens. They had these enormous jaws and all their teeth fit in their mouth. And you think about it now, humans are the only species on the planet, perhaps the only species in the history of life on earth that have mouths so small that our teeth no longer fit. They're growing crooked. So what happens when you've got a mouth that's too small for teeth also means you have a mouth that is a very small airway.

[00:08:41] That's one of the reasons we have so many of these respiratory problems right now.

[00:08:44] Mark David John Evans: [00:08:44] I, in fact, there are, there are dentists, the very forward-leaning dentists now that are doing palette, uh, expansions for people who, especially young children, you have a young, like if you're, okay, so here's an interesting, uh, uh, correlation.

[00:08:58] If your child [00:09:00] snores, I'm talking about child eight, nine, 10 years old, they're more likely to have ADHD. If your child snores, they're more likely to have a very, very narrow. Jaw that causes a sleep apnea. And the only way to solve that is to literally take the young palate of the mouth and put these braces in that literally start to pull it apart, like the way braces make teeth straight.

[00:09:25] They open the pallet up wider and make the jaw wider, and all of a sudden these children can re breathe again and they don't snore anymore.

[00:09:32] James Nestor: [00:09:32] So the first orthodontics we're actually designed to do this. Was to increase the playing field in your mouth because if your mouth is big enough, teeth are going to grow in and they're going to grow in straight if they have the room to grow and straight.

[00:09:45] If it's too small, what do you have to do? You have to pull teeth out. You have to crane teeth back. So I think that the orthodontics that I grew up with, I had braces, headgear, all that crap. I think in 10 years, 20 years, no one's going to be using that. If [00:10:00] you think logically about it. Spatially about this.

[00:10:03] It doesn't make any sense. And you're also what happens when you guess what happened? You know what else happened? So to solve the problem of having a mouth that's too small, we started taking out teeth. And then getting headgear and pushing the mouth back. Guess what happens with that? You know, the airway is even smaller, so there's very clear correlations between braces, the amount of extractions you've had, and sleep apnea and snoring.

[00:10:28] And there's, as, as you had mentioned, month several dentists, and it seems like that's really, really growing the last couple of years that, that are now using these, these functional orthodontics, which spreads open your palette, which I actually did, um, to just see if it would work. So,

[00:10:45] Mark David John Evans: [00:10:45] um, and another thing that we learned when we were at that group, which was, that was phenomenal what Ron Pender had done to get people in the same room who had nothing in common other than the desire to learn and contribute.

[00:10:58] And, uh, and [00:11:00] we, we sat and listened to those two dentists who showed that, you know, we've lost, we've lost the ability to chew foods. Everybody eats foods that are soft now. It's changed the way the face. Actually, it's structured and you can change it back by chewing stuff that's hard to chew.

[00:11:19] James Nestor: [00:11:19] Yeah, that's exactly right.

[00:11:21] And that's the silver lining to this. You know, there's all this depressing information. Okay? We can blame evolution. Okay. We can blame our lifestyles, we can blame pollution, all that. But the good news is there's one bone in the body that can be developed at any age, and it's right here. It's the maxilla, it's your face.

[00:11:40] And so to prove this, and a lot of people don't acknowledge this right now, even people who have studied this, people in medicine say bones stop growing at the 30th that's, that's it. Or you know, late twenties so to prove this, I worked with Ted Belfour and Scott seminary, and they put one of these devices in my mouth that I wore [00:12:00] every night.

[00:12:00] It wasn't the most comfortable thing that actually expanded my palette. And by doing that, it. It, uh, it allowed me to have the chewing stress that I would not have had if I was eating the regular foods that I was eating. So this thing was designed so every time I shut my mouth, it induced this chewing stress.

[00:12:20] And I grew a ton of bone in my face. My airway got tone, my breathing vastly improved. So the, the news, you know, here is that. There's really no excuse. Anyone can do this at any age and the devices are out there in the sciences out there to prove it.

[00:12:35] Mark David John Evans: [00:12:35] I think when I met you, you told me the story about, um, native Americans, uh, would teach their children not to breathe through their mouth by holding their noses when they were very young.

[00:12:47] Uh, Oh, no, no. Would they, they held their nose in their mouth, but then they, how did they do that? Tell me that story again.

[00:12:53] James Nestor: [00:12:53] Yeah. Again, don't try this at home with your own kid. Um, so there was this guy, uh, George Catlin [00:13:00] in the 1830s. He was a painter in Philadelphia, got bored with the pomp of that lifestyle.

[00:13:06] So he grabbed a gun, some canvases, some brushes, and went out to the great Plains and traveled more miles than Lewis and Clark. Along the way. He lived with 50 native American tribes before these people were even contacted. So the way before they were introduced to guns or alcohol or Western foods, he found that they all share the same exact breathing habits.

[00:13:27] They always breathed from their noses all the time. They felt that breathing this way could prevent illness. And could also help form a very handsome face. That was his term, not, not mine. Um, it's no coincidence that he said every single one of these people that he lived with had perfectly straight teeth.

[00:13:45] So for their kids, they would, nasal breathing started really early, so whenever the kid was asleep, whenever the mouth would open slightly, a mother would come over and slightly shut it. Whenever the kid was was done breastfeeding, they would shut the [00:14:00] mouth. So they'd even, some tribes even went to so far as to place children on this plank to have them sleep so that their heads were positioned in a certain way so that their mouths would stay shut and they would only nasal breathe.

[00:14:13] And this was shared according to Catlin, throughout every tribe in the U S and even down in South America. He went down there for several years.

[00:14:21] Mark David John Evans: [00:14:21] Now there's science that shows what, well, first of all. When we look at the animal kingdom, there are very few. I mean, unless a tiger is panting and it's trying to get off heat, I mean, animals all breathe through their noses, right?

[00:14:39] Apps.

[00:14:39] James Nestor: [00:14:39] Absolutely. You know a dog, you're going to see a dog. But that's just doing it. Just as you said, to release heat. You know, it's Thermo regulating, but imagine a horse. A lot of runners have asked me this too. They're like, I can't breathe through my nose. I've read through my my mouth. There's no way I can get enough air to to saturate all my tissues and muscles.

[00:15:00] [00:14:59] Completely fictitious. Look, look at a horse. Look at a horse racing. If you see a horse with its mouth open. That animal is sick or it's about to die, and that that goes for, you can imagine any other animal there. There's some breeds of dogs, brachycephalic dogs like pugs and Bulldogs. They've been read in a way that their faces are so flat that sometimes they have to open their mouth and, and they're constantly sneezing.

[00:15:27] They constantly have sinus issues

[00:15:29] Mark David John Evans: [00:15:29] and they have really, really short lifespans. Both pugs and Bulldogs. They have the shortest lifespans of just about any dog breed.

[00:15:39] James Nestor: [00:15:39] Yeah. They can't breathe. They're struggling to breathe the whole time. And you know, it's, it's so similar to what's happened to humans. I mean, we become that type of dog.

[00:15:49] Uh, we, we are the brachycephalic version of, of our species, which is sad, but it is good news that. We can change this,

[00:15:58] Mark David John Evans: [00:15:58] but, but there is [00:16:00] science now. So one of the things that you and I spoke about was the whole termination effect of breathing through the nose, plus the importance of nitric oxide as a signaling molecule.

[00:16:11] And talk about that.

[00:16:12] James Nestor: [00:16:12] Yeah. There's so many benefits to breathing through the nose. So when we breathe through the nose, we filter air, we add humidity to this air, we heat it up, we condition it before it goes into the lungs. So this is our first line of defense against pathogens, bacteria, viruses, you name it is the nose.

[00:16:30] So also in the nose is all these paranasal sinuses, which produce something called nitric oxide. I'm sure your listeners know all about ano, but, uh, just, just a little refresher, which plays an essential role in circulation. It plays an essential role in fighting viruses. Bacteria. Other pathogens and, and some people think that we actually survive on a three gas system, CO2 Oh two and nitric oxide.

[00:16:56] That's how important it is. And we get, when we breathe through the [00:17:00] nose, we get about a six fold increase of nitric oxide. So it's interesting to note that by Agra works, by enabling us to use more nitric oxide to open up all our capillaries, you know, where and elsewhere. That's how it works. So you can get natural Viagra.

[00:17:17] Breathing through your nose. And if you hum, you're going to increase that Eno by 15 times the amount you would otherwise, you're going to know everyone around you, but screw them. Do it anyway.

[00:17:28] Mark David John Evans: [00:17:28] Yeah. Right. Tell them, Hey, I'm making Viagra right now. Leave me alone. So, so, um, and then the other thing is that it was discovered that there are.

[00:17:38] Uh, there are nerve bundles that go right from the nose to the cerebral cortex and the, you know, so all of us who remembered non-computer driven cars and just the naturally aspirating car. When we moved to the computerized cars, they all had an O two sensor that helped to regulate the leanness or the richness of your [00:18:00] fuel.

[00:18:00] We actually have that in, in our, in our face, don't we. For sure.

[00:18:05] James Nestor: [00:18:05] And those, those noses tell us when we're breathing and register how we're breathing. So people who have had their turbinates drilled out in surgeries by overzealous ENT lose this ability. So they don't know when they're breathing and when they're exhaling.

[00:18:21] So they're constantly going

[00:18:24] Mark David John Evans: [00:18:24] awful

[00:18:25] James Nestor: [00:18:25] condition called empty nose syndrome. And it just shows that there's this gap of understanding where the nose is such a vital organ, but still some people, some surgeons will go in and take out so much of this very intricate. Oregon here, and it really messes people up.

[00:18:42] So this is not a warning against getting nasal surgery. Just do it. Smart and a less is more approach is really the way to

[00:18:49] Mark David John Evans: [00:18:49] go. It dictates you have a conversation with your surgeon that explains to them that you understand this and you ask them about their own policy and procedures in this and you say, Hey, I don't want to end up with empty [00:19:00] nose syndrome.

[00:19:00] And they'll go to you, who've you been talking to them. You know, have you been talking to James nester,

[00:19:08] James Nestor: [00:19:08] Dan? I've, I've seen people completely transformed by responsible nasal surgeries. Deviated septum, completely transformed. You know, the, the important thing is more is not more when it comes to breathing.

[00:19:20] Most oftentimes less is more by breathing less. We can actually absorb more oxygen. We can go further. We can run further. We get more endurance. So that's something that seems to be completely lost, both in the medical community and elsewhere.

[00:19:36] Mark David John Evans: [00:19:36] Well, it's estimated that we breathe anywhere from 17,000 to 30,000 times a day, and this is primarily driven by the autonomic nervous system.

[00:19:45] So we're not paying attention, we're not thinking about it. But at the same time, when you start paying attention to your breathing, you'll notice things you know, you'll notice that you're breathing more shallow when you are upset. I told you this story. [00:20:00] I was on the phone and Andrews Olson, who was a brilliant guy, who is a Buteyko breathing guy, very, very important.

[00:20:07] He puts it, put a lot of emphasis on the importance of carbon dioxide. It's not a waste gas. It's a very important gas. And we were at that, that group, and I, you know, he was watching me breathe. I didn't know that. And he said to me, what's going on with you? He says, I noticed all of a sudden. Your breathing has changed.

[00:20:25] And I said, Oh, I just had a distressing phone call. He goes, yeah, you're breathing much more shallow. He goes, and he goes to be calm, breathe, and you know, I started to breathe with him and the stress of the phone call literally just went away. I didn't even have to think about it. I just had to change my breathing.

[00:20:42] James Nestor: [00:20:42] Sure. Well, breathing is one function. We can't control how we digest food. We can't control our heart rate. We can't control all these other functions in our body. But we can control how and when to breathe. And when we control that, we can influence how everything else works. So if you think about an animal that's [00:21:00] stressed or person that's stressed, they're jacked up, sympathetic overdrive, they're ready to roll.

[00:21:08] But if you calm your breathing, you're going to slow your heart rate. You're going to shift your nervous system into a parasympathetic state. So you can take control of your own body and how it reacts. You can trigger hormones. You can trigger different moods, different thoughts, when to digest, when not to, on and on and on.

[00:21:26] By simply controlling your breathing. It's that powerful of a tool, and in my opinion, it's been completely overlooked. People talk about exercise. We know you need to exercise to be fit and to be healthy and live a long life. We know you need to eat well, but I believe that breathing needs to be included.

[00:21:44] In that, along with those, those two other, you know, aspects of, of health and. Well, from what I've found, very few people are talking about it or, and fewer it really understand how it works.

[00:21:56] Mark David John Evans: [00:21:56] We don't even think about it any more than we think about our heartbeat. Patrick Roger says he [00:22:00] was a mouth breather his whole life until two years ago due to structural.

[00:22:03] Probably he had some sort of deviated septum or something, feel better and constantly retraining myself to nose breed. So that is another thing. You have to pay attention in order to train yourself right.

[00:22:16] James Nestor: [00:22:16] For sure. But the more you train yourself, the more you create that habit consciously, the more you're going to be breathing that way unconsciously.

[00:22:24] And that's the real key. No one wants, you know, reminders on your phone to go off every 15 minutes. To breeze slowly and to pay attention to your breathing. But it's just like anything else. You condition yourself and then your body is going to adjust to that and understand how helpful and helpful that is to you.

[00:22:41] And so you're going to naturally want to do it. And I think that, you know, it starts with that at the beginning. It's not easy, especially for people who've been mouth breathing at night, mouth breathing during the day. They're like, how am I supposed to do that at night? How am I supposed to breathe through my nose?

[00:22:55] There's, there's many ways. Not really that comfortable, but once you get over [00:23:00] that hump, everything gets a lot easier.

[00:23:01] Mark David John Evans: [00:23:01] So I got to put this up. I've OSU, who listens to this show from across the world, he's a great guy. He says, I taped my mouth every night to make sure I nose breathe while asleep. That's one of the things I learned and I started doing and I, the quality of my sleep changed literally in one night sleep.

[00:23:19] James Nestor: [00:23:19] Yeah. Oh, absolutely. So we did a study at Stanford, more of an experiment than, than a study in which Anders and I obstructed our noses for 10 days, recorded every imaginable metric from PFT. We had CGMs on, we had, we did nitric oxide, CO2, oxygen, everything. And just to see how simply shifting the pathway from breathing from our noses to our mouths would affect us.

[00:23:49] And just in regards to sleep, the first night that I've structured my nose, my snoring went up 1200 1200% so I went from snoring about two [00:24:00] minutes to start a few hours within a few days. I was snoring through half the night, never snored for for the past several years. And the day we took all that off and use mouth tape, the snoring completely disappeared.

[00:24:12] 30 foot drop right out of right out of the gate. So it just shows you that this is something anyone can do. I do not recommend placing a huge strip of duct tape across your mouth. Bad idea. Don't look at YouTube. There's a bunch of bad advice on there. All you need is a teeny pissy piece of tape. Like imagine like a Charlie Chaplin mustache.

[00:24:33] Move it down an inch so it's covering your lip. Even if the sides of your, your lips are open, that's fine, right? You're just reining yourself to keep your Josh shot. And this has been completely transformative for me as well. Once I discovered this, I'm like, why didn't somebody tell me this 20 years ago?

[00:24:50] Mark David John Evans: [00:24:50] Nobody pays attention to breathing. We just assumed that the fact that we're breathing, we're doing it right. Um, so I have to ask you this question because I have to find that now. [00:25:00] Uh, there has to be some changes going on right now because of all the stress due to this pandemic. What do you think? I mean, people aren't probably aren't paying attention to their breathing.

[00:25:09] A lot of people are stressed out. A lot of people feel a great deal of anxiety. I get it. It's, it's a troubling time. But I wonder how many people are shallow breathing now? Oh, I

[00:25:19] James Nestor: [00:25:19] think that far. Far more than there were before. Without a doubt. I don't have any numbers on that, but I mean, you're just looking at me.

[00:25:28] Here I am sitting in front of my computer, kind of hunched over. I'm not breathing that healthy. I should breathing these full breaths. I should be breathing into my abdomen should be filling up. I should be sitting like this, but I'm not, because when I'm focused on something, especially if I'm. You know, answering emails, doing this interview, I'm focused on talking to you.

[00:25:47] I'm not focused on my breathing. So you add anxiety to that and panic and stress to that. You've got a very bad combination. And th those are known, uh, correlations [00:26:00] between your mental state and how you're breathing. So people with chronic anxiety is in panic. Breathe way too much way into the chest.

[00:26:08] They're very low CO2 levels. This is all established stuff. So the one recommendation I would give to people right now is try to be conscious of your breathing. Re slow and breathe low and you can really change your mind and mood by just doing that.

[00:26:23] Mark David John Evans: [00:26:23] So this was one of the questions I was going to ask you.

[00:26:26] You know, uh, Dr. Daniel Lieberman came on my show a couple of times and one of the things that he left me with was that the greatest driver of evolution. Is I hear my voice coming back every, all of a sudden the greatest driver of evolution is, is culture. And right now we're all obsessed with washboard abs.

[00:26:45] How is that affecting our breathing?

[00:26:48] James Nestor: [00:26:48] Well, I think wash it. You've got one, one set of people who are very interested in fitness and wash it out. Do you have another set who are hunched over the computers looking at their phones the whole time? So neither is [00:27:00] doing anything really. Right? So if you're hunched over your phone like this, I mean, just imagine what your diaphragm has to do in order to take a deep breath.

[00:27:10] It's got to do all this extra work. It's so much harder to see, just breathe in into your chest. If you're talking about fitness people, you know, especially being yogis or whomever, that everyone wants to have a really flat, flat stomach, especially if you're, if you're showing that off at the beach, so you can't take these big abdominal breaths and have that washboard look.

[00:27:31] But. I mean, I think your, your health, your overall health and longevity is worth, worth more than that. Maybe someone's taking a picture, you know, you inhale it up and get the picture taken, but then go back to some, some healthy breathing. And, uh, you, you see those, the, the body types of people who really practice healthy breathing, maybe their, their abs aren't as ripped, like absolutely ripped as someone else.

[00:27:55] They still look great because they're calm, their shoulders are [00:28:00] relaxed, their skin has a different tone to it. So if you're looking at a statics, I think the benefits of abdominal breathing far outweigh those of sucking in your stomach to look good.

[00:28:10] Mark David John Evans: [00:28:10] We're going to take a quick commercial break, and when we come back, we're going to be talking more about this fantastic book.

[00:28:14] I'll put the book back up and where you can get it. Stay tuned. You're listening to super human radio. Spit that out right now. This is the superhuman channel.

[00:28:27] For those of you, those of you listening to the podcast, I'm sorry, I should tell you the name of the book is called breathe and it is a. The new science of a lost art by James nester. You can go to amazon.com to get it. Um, if you want to learn more about James, you can go to Mr. James nester.com. It's a great book.

[00:28:51] It's a must read. I, I, you know, there were certain books that I really believe have the potential to change lives with very, very minimal alterations in [00:29:00] behavior. And this is definitely one of them because there's a lot of people out. So two things. Observations. I just started thinking about breathing through my belly a little bit more, which they tell you, like in martial arts, you're supposed to breathe through your belly that actually produces a strong accord.

[00:29:15] Then kind of rigid ING up your stomach. And I, I've been very conscious of sitting straight. If you start to be conscious of breathing through your belly, your lumbar spine naturally arches out, and you don't have to think about your lumbar spine for

[00:29:32] James Nestor: [00:29:32] sure. And Mike mew. Who a dentist and a researcher who's been studying this stuff for years and years and years.

[00:29:40] He's the son of John mew who's been staying the stuff since the fifties he believes this is just a hypothesis that having a posture in which your neck is out and your shoulders are forward. Makes it really hard to get ripped abs, right? So if you have a proper posture where you're up like this, your stomach's naturally going to be extended.

[00:29:59] You're going to be [00:30:00] engaging those muscles a lot more instead of engaging your back and your shoulders. If you look at indigenous people from Australia or South America, these people never did any setups, right? They weren't doing pull ups. They're all completely ripped, you know? And I think that some of that has to do with how they held their bodies out,

[00:30:19] Mark David John Evans: [00:30:19] but, but clearly, like I, I'm, uh, like Elisa always tells me, sit up straight because I'll kind of roll my shoulders forward, but I have to think about, okay, pull your back.

[00:30:29] You know, Kurt. But when I just think about breathing through my stomach, all of that falls into place. It's

[00:30:36] James Nestor: [00:30:36] how your body is naturally designed to breathe, right? You don't see a dog breathing into its chest. Check out a dog's stomach next time it's, it's after a run. Know it's going to be going up and down.

[00:30:48] Same with the baby. Check out how a baby breathe. We lose this ability as we grow older, as we start living these sedentary lifestyles in which we're hunched over all the time. We're at school, we're at [00:31:00] computers, but something that to correct. I agree with you. When you're sitting down, be conscious. You want a J shaped spine.

[00:31:06] You don't want an S shape. That's fine. And you know, try to get up, have a, have a standing workstations. Good. And more importantly, go outside more often. You know, if you can't,

[00:31:16] Mark David John Evans: [00:31:16] so give the audience the four tips that they can actually use right now to breathe better and feel better.

[00:31:23] James Nestor: [00:31:23] I think the number one.

[00:31:25] Is nasal breathing all the time. Anytime. A lot of people are gonna say, can't breathe out of my nose. It's messed up. The more you use it, the more it's gonna open up. Okay? So that's, that's very important to know. If you think about a sink in your kitchen, if your sink is clogged, you're going to find a way of clearing it as soon as possible.

[00:31:44] So you need to think of your nose in the same way you want to breathe out of your nose, period. You want to breathe slowly, okay? You don't wanna. You don't want to breathe 20 times a minute. You want to breathe closer to maybe 1212 times a minute. And [00:32:00] if you really focus, maybe shrink that down to six times a minute into the stomach.

[00:32:04] If you want a nice practice that's going to relax you, you need to breathe less. That doesn't go for everybody, but for the vast majority of us breathing less will allow your body to get more, more oxygen, more energy. And the last one of these is if you're really into this stuff, and I know a lot of your listeners are, and they don't have longstanding chronic conditions, there are many different breath work.

[00:32:28] Practices like Wim Hof method, like TUMO, Sudarshan, Korea on and on, that allow you to breathe very fast for short amounts of time. And by doing that, you're able to control your autonomic nervous system. You're able to turn it on and do a stress state, and then more importantly, you're able to turn it off for you for the other 23 and a half hours of the day to chill out, which is where you need to be.

[00:32:55] So I'm a big fan of that conscious, very rigorous breathing. I've seen [00:33:00] people absolutely transformed people with auto immune diseases, with psoriasis, eczema, even type one diabetes transformed by just allowing their selves to breathe and getting, regaining control of their nervous systems, which has gotten a ride.

[00:33:14] Mark David John Evans: [00:33:14] That's fascinating. You know, um, I observed the great apes gorillas, and when they're relaxed sitting. And someone is observing them from a far with a camera. One of the things I noticed about their breathing was upon the exhale, they didn't immediately breathe back in. It's almost like, and, and when you understand the connection between your breath and your heart, when you breathe in your heart races up.

[00:33:46] When you breathe out, it slows down. And what I found out was when you breathe out and stay there for a count of a second or two before you inhale again, your heart just gets really relaxed. It just slows down. And I thought, wow, [00:34:00] that's how the great apes. Breathe. They're not, as soon as they breathe out, breathing in, they breathe out and there's like no urgencies.

[00:34:08] It's not until their body demands that they breathe back in that they take another breath. And I thought that was fascinating because we don't breathe like that. We breathe like everything is an emergency, especially with push notification from your phone and text messages and six different email. I mean, it's crazy today.

[00:34:27] James Nestor: [00:34:27] Yeah. The ancient Chinese prescribed 13,500 breaths a day. So, which is about half of what we're breathing right now. And, um, you know, so, so that's interesting. I don't know how they came to that specific number,

[00:34:40] Mark David John Evans: [00:34:40] but it's another guy who counts. You got to know the count it all day long.

[00:34:44] James Nestor: [00:34:44] A lot of time, lot of time, no computers, no phones, no TVs.

[00:34:49] Yeah, this

[00:34:50] Mark David John Evans: [00:34:50] study, this stuff. I can see a guy counting. He's up to like 7,000 and something, and somebody says, did you see those two geese that flew to? Oh man, I gotta start all [00:35:00] over again.

[00:35:00] James Nestor: [00:35:00] Yeah. He's just got a jar of pebbles, just throwing one in every single time somebody

[00:35:05] Mark David John Evans: [00:35:05] breathed

[00:35:06] James Nestor: [00:35:06] out, however he did it, man, it, you know, it says something right there.

[00:35:11] So if you think about low, low resting heart rates. You think about the fittest people, right? So they're their resting heart rate, maybe the high forties and the fifties so the only way to maintain a resting heart rate that low is to breeze slow. You cannot have a low resting heart rate and go impossible.

[00:35:34] So these people are such good athletes. Either they've trained themselves to breathe this way, or they were naturally good breathers to begin with. And if you look at, um, so you know, every animal has what, a billion heartbeats, and in its lifetime, I think humans have 2 billion. We're the exception to the rule.

[00:35:52] And the, the fewer heartbeats you can take per day, on average, at least this is how it works out, [00:36:00] means you're going to. Be able to live a longer life. So we've, we've got a ticker here, so you don't want to have this thing jacked up all day and 90 yeah. You want to get it really high when you're working out for a half hour, for an hour.

[00:36:13] But then the benefits of exercising so rigorously is the heart rate is going to come back down. You're going to be in better shape, so it doesn't need to beat that hard during the rest of the time. So I think that this is what yogis say, you know, you don't have like a lifespan is not calculated in years.

[00:36:32] It's calculated in breaths, how many breaths you take. So the fewer breaths you take, the slower these breasts are. You're going to live longer according to 2000 year old

[00:36:43] Mark David John Evans: [00:36:43] texts. I'm Greg. I'm glad that Derek just popped in. Derek Trombetta was with us at that, that group. Awesome. So Derek, Derek was a fireman and we were talking about carbon dioxide is actually going to ask this question next.

[00:36:55] Derek, you must be, you must be on the, uh, the ESPN channel right now. [00:37:00] And so Derek said, you know, we learned as firefighters. That w it was more important to watch somebody's CO2 levels than their O two levels as a predictor that there's no saving them as long as their O two levels stayed higher, they could still bring people back to life and talk about the relationship of CO2 and Oh two and how CO2 actually makes us more efficient at at scavenging Oh two out of the blood.

[00:37:28] James Nestor: [00:37:28] Well, the the need to breathe. Is not determined by the amount of oxygen in your bloodstream. It's determined by the amount of CO2. That's what triggers the need to breathe in our chemo receptors, central chemo receptors. So these have a, these two molecules have a very symbiotic relationship. And this is another thing that people, that I had a real hard time believing this until I heard it.

[00:37:49] 4 million times by various people and di did a bit of research in it, but what happens is oxygen is going to detach from hemoglobin much more [00:38:00] easily in a state in which there are, there is more co two so it's going to exchange much, much more easily. That's, that's aerobic respiration. So you want to be.

[00:38:11] Running yourselves aerobically, not anaerobically, not not with fermentation. So by having CO2 is a, has a massive effect on vaso dilation. So it's going to open all those arteries up, those capillaries up and allow for the transfer of oxygen much more easily into cells. And it's also oxygen as opposed to anaerobic respiration.

[00:38:33] You're going to gain around 16 times more energy from that than from brain anaerobically. So CO2, a lot of people just look at their OTU. They, you know, Paul Sox seminar forgot one right here. Um, they're just looking at their OTU the whole time. But I really think if, if you want to really gain someone's health, you have to be looking at these gases together and the relationship between those, because you need healthy to high CO2 and healthy to [00:39:00] high OTU to really get the most out of each breath.

[00:39:03] Mark David John Evans: [00:39:03] And see from a physiological standpoint, this makes perfect sense because when S Oh two gets goes high in the blood, the body goes, okay, we need more oxygen. So it liberates more oxygen from the hemoglobin. So that's the, that's the limiting factor for how fast oxygen can then be released is that the Oh two level has to be there.

[00:39:24] If Oh two is real low, the body goes, Oh wait, we're cruising along. We don't need to release a lot of oxygen right now.

[00:39:31] James Nestor: [00:39:31] Yeah, that's it. That's exactly right. Because, and they found this, you know, discover this a hundred years ago. It's called the Bohr effect. I mean, you can look that up and, and this is, this is how cells get there.

[00:39:42] More oxygen is going to go to a place where they're a CO2. It has naturally attracted to where they're CO2, which is why if someone's got gangrene or some of their skin problem, if you bade that area in CO2 or even injected, there's going to be so much more oxygen and circulation to that area and it's, it's [00:40:00] massively effective.

[00:40:01] And you know, scientists have been using CO2 for, for literally the past century. It was used for everything was never disclaimed. They used it for epilepsy. They use it for schizophrenia because that allowed them, they believe, to open up Dorman areas in the brain to get these people to think normally, even had it on firetrucks and New York and Chicago to help people who had just suffered from strokes, from heart attacks, from asphyxia, pneumonia, asthma.

[00:40:26] I could go on and on, and again, it was. It was never disproven. But for some reason another therapy came around and uh, and we no longer use it. But from what I've seen and the researchers I've been working with, there's going to be this huge resurgence and, and research into CO2 because it's so cheap.

[00:40:44] It's so simple, and it works so well.

[00:40:47] Mark David John Evans: [00:40:47] The book is called breathe. The new site. I'm sorry, Brett. I'm sorry, Brett. There was no E at the end. I'm like Dan Quayle a BR breath. I'm sorry. So that was a dirty trick.

[00:40:59] James Nestor: [00:40:59] Last flat from [00:41:00] the, from way back, I get the reference

[00:41:03] Mark David John Evans: [00:41:03] potato, potato, uh, James ness, his book is called breadth.

[00:41:08] The new science of lost art. You can get it at Amazon. Dot com or where better books are sold. Uh, we're going to take a quick commercial break. When we come back, we're going to wrap up this interview. I've got a couple more questions for James, and then later in the show, my friend Mark David, John Evans, who is a brilliant statistician and works in the actuarial area of life, is going to put my theory to the test that the reason that we have hot spots for  19 is because the combination.

[00:41:41] Of, uh, international. Travel hubs and the dependence on mass transit, and if I'm right, then we really just needed to close up New Jersey and New York and some parts of California and things like that, and not the whole country. Since he's a numbers guy, he's gonna call my BS. [00:42:00] Out if I'm really off on this one, so stay tuned.

[00:42:02] We'll be right back with more.

[00:42:03] James Nestor: [00:42:03] James

[00:42:03] Mark David John Evans: [00:42:03] nester. You are listening to the superhuman chapel. Don't hate us because we feel good.

[00:42:13] Welcome back. We're talking with author James nester. This is a great book. Like as soon as you read the first, the first few paragraphs, you go, wow. You know, I thought it was going to be one of these technical hard to read. I mean, it just, it reads so easily. It's, it's fantastic. You're very, very talented writer.

[00:42:32] Um, okay, so you learned a lot from the exploratory process of writing this book. How has that changed? How has it changed your life and how long did it take for you to start to change some of these, uh, these things that you didn't want in your breathing process any longer?

[00:42:49] James Nestor: [00:42:49] Well as a, as a journalist, you set out to research subjects and try to present facts, objectives.

[00:42:55] Right. I had absolutely no inclination to be against [00:43:00] mouth breathing or be pro nasal breathing or any, anything. I'm no background in breathing or the science. I've never written a book that had so much medical research in it. Either. You know, but you can't, as you keep hearing these things over and over and over again, either from ancient texts to scientists a hundred years ago to scientists now, you can't help wanting to incorporate these things into your life to improve how you feel.

[00:43:25] So I tried out a lot of this stuff, um, and I measured it to see what would happen. You know, that's a small slice of the book. Most of it is focused on these researchers. And what I found is there's a ton of books about. How to breathe. Right. You know, and some of these things are thousands of years old or hundreds of years old.

[00:43:44] You can buy Yogi books. All the instructions to proper breathing are in there. But unless you know the why and where this stuff came from, I've found that they didn't do too much just just to get the direction. So I really try to go in that direction and find out, you know, why is breathing [00:44:00] so important to longevity?

[00:44:01] How does it affect our muscles and tissues? How does it affect our mental States and who are the researchers working on this? And what's the history? One thing I kept finding is we've known about this stuff humans have for literally thousands of years, um, since the early Hindus to the Chinese and the Dow, they wrote seven books focused entirely on breathing and how breathing poorly could make you sick.

[00:44:27] How breathing well could make you healthy. And for some reason this has just been completely lost. And that's why I call it a lost art. But luckily I think there's enough researchers in well-known institutions, Harvard, Stanford, and so on who are pursuing this topic and finding so much of what we had learned so many hundreds of years ago is a hundred percent right.

[00:44:49] I just want to say one thing about burning anaerobically, cause I know a lot of your listeners are

[00:44:55] Mark David John Evans: [00:44:55] really,

[00:44:57] James Nestor: [00:44:57] really into this stuff. What I'm talking is, [00:45:00] is unconscious. Now I'm not talking about working out the benefits of, of, of working muscles anaerobically are known. Okay? The benefits of, of resist of. Uh, CO2 training, how it can increase EPO and blood cell counts and increase VO two max.

[00:45:17] All of that is known. I'm talking about the other 23 hours of the day. You don't want to be burning anaerobically. You want to be burning aerobically. So the very, very different thing. You know, when someone's dying, they start burning all their tissues start burning anaerobically. So I just wanted to clear that out because I know that.

[00:45:35] You know, you guys know your

[00:45:36] Mark David John Evans: [00:45:36] stuff and we know from Dr. Thomas C freed that anaerobic respiration, mitochondrial anaerobic respiration is where cancer begins.

[00:45:45] James Nestor: [00:45:45] I'd say absolutely right in areas of low oxygen. That's where it begins, and that's where it grows very quickly. But when we consciously put ourselves, and this is something I kept finding in this book.

[00:45:56] Just like we're not supposed to breathe too heavy, right? But when we [00:46:00] consciously do that to ourselves, we regain the power and, um, to, to control our bodies and to make ourselves more fit so that all that other time sleeping hours, all the other resting hours, we're burning cleaner and we're able to do more with less.

[00:46:15] And I think that that's really the key conscious breathing. Very different from unconscious breathing.

[00:46:20] Mark David John Evans: [00:46:20] You know, it's funny. Two observations I have to keep reminding myself to. Stop tensing my stomach and let it kind of fall out, so to speak and breathe into my stomach. How long does it take, or how long did it take you to like change the way you were breathing before and after?

[00:46:42] James Nestor: [00:46:42] I'm still working on it. I'll be honest. You know, I've been working on a book a long time, and if I didn't have these practices, I probably wouldn't have ever finished this thing. I mean, it almost killed me. So I have a couple couple of tweaks that I do. Um, there's something called email apnea, but up to 80% of the [00:47:00] population suffers from when you sit down your focus.

[00:47:03] Mark David John Evans: [00:47:03] Oh,

[00:47:03] James Nestor: [00:47:03] you gotta get back to him. Oh, I've gotta you know, get on Twitter, do all this. Um, our breathing goes to hell. Some, they measured this, bunch of NIH studies have measured this. So what I do sometimes is I get my pulse socks and I put it on my wrist and I have it. So it goes off at, uh, if I ever hit below 92 South Oh two sets.

[00:47:24] And you would be amazed how often I do, how often anyone does when you're sitting there really focused on something. So that's one little tweak I do to help continually remind me. I do Wim Hof breathing at least once a week. I do Sudarshan Korea at least once a week. I always sleep with, with tape on my mouth.

[00:47:45] Um, you know, I'm a real, real nerd with this stuff now. It got a little obsessive. My wife was get a little freaked out, but, um, you know, she's learned to live with it. And slowly, I've, I've really noticed in the, especially in the past year, I'm adopting these, these habits [00:48:00] unconsciously through, through a lot of hard work and man, what a difference.

[00:48:03] It may

[00:48:04] Mark David John Evans: [00:48:04] extend. It made a difference to you.

[00:48:06] James Nestor: [00:48:06] Absolutely. And you know, I have, I have metrics to show it that that was the whole point of the Stanford experiment is we know that healthy breathing is going to improve all of these functions in the body. We just don't know how quickly it occurs. And on the other hand, we know that poor breathing is really going to affect you on numerous levels.

[00:48:25] You don't know how quickly it turns out. It occurs in a couple of days. Soft tissues in the back, back of the mouth, like all of this stuff happens very quickly, which means you can turn it around that quickly as well.

[00:48:36] Mark David John Evans: [00:48:36] You know, there's a rapid breathing as an exercise make sense? Because some of the early meditation techniques I learned, in fact, I was living in Las Vegas in my twenties and rom Doss lives in Las Vegas, and I didn't know who he was, and I went to some local metaphysical shop.

[00:48:56] And went to a meditation class, and it [00:49:00] was Rahm Doss. Now that I look back, I was like, Holy crap. To famous people. I met rom DASA Timothy Leary who altered the way I think. Really. Um, but it's funny because one of the things he said was, if you can't get relaxed, tense your entire body and hold it as tense as you can until you can't hold it anymore and then relax it.

[00:49:20] Sometimes you have like a pendulum. Sometimes you have to find the extreme left in order to find the extreme right. So that makes perfect sense to me

[00:49:28] James Nestor: [00:49:28] for sure. Which is why I think that those very vigorous breathing techniques work so well. That completely Jack you up. So that you'd be able to chill out and then, you know, in some sense before a workout, you can start your respiration.

[00:49:43] You can start your breathing early. So that beginning first 10 minutes of the workout feels so much better because you're oxygenating everything you're not, you know, running anaerobically for the beginning. And that's something I also learned is breathe as though you would be breathing during a hard workout a few minutes before [00:50:00] you even start.

[00:50:01] And that, that always helps.

[00:50:04] Mark David John Evans: [00:50:04] The book is called breathe. You can get it at that. I'm sorry. I keep doing it. Thank you. Thank you. I'm not the only one I keep, I keep trying to remind, you have no idea how hard it is for me not to tense my stomach and breathe through my throat. Breathe through my abdomen. I'm doing it like literally all of a sudden my mind is off the show and I'm thinking about, Oh no, I'm holding my breath again.

[00:50:24] I can't believe how often I hold my breath.

[00:50:27] James Nestor: [00:50:27] These, these are good habits, man. I mean, they're going to annoy you, but once you start doing them unconsciously, you're going to really feel the benefits of that. Without a doubt.

[00:50:36] Mark David John Evans: [00:50:36] The book is called breadth. Uh, it's at amazon.com and listen, just because you're breathing doesn't mean you're doing it right.

[00:50:43] You take it from me. I'm living proof. I'm living it right now. In this moment. I'm going to have to work really, really hard to let it to reach, reteach myself how to breathe. James, thanks so much for being on the show today, man, and this book is great. This is, you know, so many books are hard to read that I have to like, Oh, [00:51:00] I got to read this.

[00:51:01] I started reading this book. I was like, this guy, this guy is, he's really good. And it wasn't even about the information at that point in time.

[00:51:09] James Nestor: [00:51:09] Thank you very much, Carl. You know your one host who actually shows up, does his homework. So it's a real pleasure talking to you.

[00:51:15] Mark David John Evans: [00:51:15] Thank you. You take care of yourself.

[00:51:17] We're going to take one quick commercial break when we come back. Uh, my good friend is going to join me. Uh, Mark David, John, uh, uh, Evans, and he's going to put me in my place, uh, because there's a high probability that I'm wrong about what I've been saying. And that relates to this, uh, covert spread and seeding.

[00:51:37] But, uh, he'll tell us. So stay tuned. We're going to take one quick commercial break. We'll be right back. And also, I'm going to announce the winner of the $429. Be strong BFR bands. So

[00:51:48] James Nestor: [00:51:48] that'll be on the other side of this break

[00:51:50] Mark David John Evans: [00:51:50] where we use oxygen for the power of good.

[00:51:58] Welcome back.

[00:52:02] [00:52:00] My good friend Mark is here with us. He is a statistician. He dwells in the world of reality. He came on this show, Oh, I want to say a month ago. Was it. That's about right. And he, uh, he developed a model to predict, uh, the number of fatalities and the number of, uh, cases of covert 19 in this country. And as I recall, I think your numbers are really coming to true, be true, right?

[00:52:31] I mean, you, you, you didn't overpredict your, your, you remember what your prediction was? Well, so far I've been slightly under underpredicting and I can't remember. Which number? I quoted on your, um, uh, show last time I was on because I've been updating it every, every week. Right. Um, this, this last, but so you're saying you are underquoting it as opposed to everybody else.

[00:52:56] You, you were a bit more conservative with your prediction. So [00:53:00] that's pretty good as far as I

[00:53:02] James Nestor: [00:53:02] can

[00:53:02] Mark David John Evans: [00:53:02] compare it to most of the models out there. Now, one thing has happened is, um. I H M E D model, which is a university of Washington model that I think the administration has been relying on their, their estimates started pretty high.

[00:53:17] Um. Came down dramatically and it's slowly been going up. But because of that, um, I'm, I'm now estimating, uh, uh, more destined than they are, so, so we'll see. We'll see. I hope they're right and I'm wrong. That's what I hope I can. Before we get into this discussion, I have to announce the name of the person who won the be strong blood flow restriction system, which is a $429 system.

[00:53:42] I own it. It's fantastic. It comes with two leg, upper leg. Uh, sh, uh, band, um, bladders we'll say, or straps. These are bladders like, uh, uh, like a blood pressure cuff. These are not just some rinky dink, you know, strap that looks like something. You'll hold your school books together with, [00:54:00] uh, very sophisticated.

[00:54:01] They come with a, uh, um. A hand pump that you can pump it up to the exact milligrams of mercury of pressure so you can be precise and reproduce the pressure every time in every limb. It comes with two for legs, two for upper arms. It comes and there's an app for it, and there's a carry case for it. And then there's the bulb with the gauge on it that you blow them up to fantastic product.

[00:54:26] A lot of people in the audience have bought them and love it. So the winter. Of the drawing is Donald Walton. He lives in Murfreesboro, Tennessee. Uh, his unit will be shipped out to him today. He'll get it probably in a few days. All of them. We had a lot of people sign up for this. There's a lot of interest in this.

[00:54:48] We have an unbelievable discount. That will be emailed to everybody else. I can't say it on the air cause I'll piss a lot of people off who paid full price for it. But if you entered to [00:55:00] win the BFR band system and you are not a winner, you will still be a winner of sorts. But Donald Walton, uh, Murfreesboro, Tennessee, he will be getting the $429 blood flow restriction system from be strong.

[00:55:14] So that's wonderful. Okay, so now, um, I contacted you the other day and I said, Mark, I think I'm onto something. I said. If you look at the places that have the highest international travel, they were the earliest ones to be seated, but the, the, the real big deal was those same cities that not only had international travel but had a high dependency on mass transit is where the explosion, they became epicenters.

[00:55:44] What do you think. Well, Carl, I think you're onto something because after he, after he asked me that question, I went and pulled some, um, statistics together and I looked at the correlation between the [00:56:00] various factors that you've had proposed. Um, and, and the extent of Koba deaths, actually. So, for example, between, um, uh, with mass transit, I've found, um, you know, uh, States that use a lot of mass transit, uh, found a correlation of, of 70%.

[00:56:19] That's not dramatic, but it's, it's meaningful. Uh, population density, um, 67% correlation. And. The on short notice, the best I could come up with as a proxy for international travel was the number of passports per capita for each of the States. And that showed a correlation of, um, uh, 70%. Now, sometimes you can put two or three of these factors together and improve your, um, correlation.

[00:56:52] So I played around with that a little bit, but. Yeah, that didn't help in this. They're so, they're so close together. Then you're playing averages. But since [00:57:00] they're all in the 60 to 65 to 70% range, one is not going to lift the other one up very much. Um, well anyway, that's, that's happened. Sometimes they will, but in this case, now they get so in and, and, and, and considering this.

[00:57:17] Would, and I know you're, I know that you're a very conservative person because you work in the world of numbers and numbers are all about absolutes. Two and two is always four. You don't massage it around and make it six. So I'm asking you this without any type of, uh, political inference or ideological inference, do you think that we could have, now that you've looked at this and you go, you know, there is some correlation in some, some legitimacy because, don't forget.

[00:57:44] People from Kentucky could travel to Europe and they fly home to Louisville, but they fly to JFK in and out of the country and then fly to JFK and come home. So that's where the, the outliers come from. Well, how did this community, and how did that community, [00:58:00] but given what you looked at, do you think that it is a fair assessment to say, had we understood this, we could have just shut down New York.

[00:58:12] Uh, New Jersey, maybe Connecticut, because those are, you know, New York and Connecticut. They're like bedroom States. Maybe some parts of California. Could. We have just created this quarantine effect just around the cities with the highest number of international travelers and the greatest dependency on mass transit and save the rest of the country from being completely shut down.

[00:58:38] I mean, of course, North and South Dakota have zero cases when nobody's flying out of there to Europe and they don't have any mass transit. They're not in Montana either. Yeah. Well, and then, um, okay, there's something to your point, I would add Seattle, Washington to that. Yes, of course. Of course. Um, if, [00:59:00] if we had done

[00:59:00] James Nestor: [00:59:00] that.

[00:59:02] Early

[00:59:02] Mark David John Evans: [00:59:02] enough and it would have meant a hard lockdown in those places, though probably harder than anything. We actually did what had been a very hard lockdown and would have had to been very early, uh, that might've worked towards, uh, towards your point. Right? So going forward, what politicians need to start to understand is the seeding and spread process of international travel and mass transit and in the future, and there will be a future.

[00:59:31] Because we've had these, this isn't the first time we've had a pandemic, let's be honest. Right. But correct. In the future, maybe as soon as they see that process in New York, they say. No one can leave New York. Stay inside your state. That's great, but you can't go to New Jersey. You can't go to Connecticut.

[00:59:47] And then do, do the same thing with neighboring States where you start to see these cases erupt and partition the country instead of shutting down the entire country. Wouldn't that be a sensible thing for politicians and [01:00:00] lawmakers to start to consider in the future? Well, in fact, Carl, if, if you study, you know there's, there's a group of Asian countries, now let's exclude China cause we really don't know what's going on there.

[01:00:10] But right. Um, uh, but even then, even there, I think China did some smart things eventually. But, but nonetheless, let's exclude China. Cause like you said, we just don't really know what's going on there. But you've got some countries like South Korea and some other small Asian countries that have been successful with this thing.

[01:00:33] Um, and a big reason for that is to some extent. They were doing exactly what, uh, exactly what's your proposal. Now, the other aspect of it though, the one big reason that worked for them, um, is they got it. They w they were looking out for that. They were alert for that and they got after it early right away.

[01:00:55] Unfortunately, we didn't do any of that. And so by the time we started to [01:01:00] take action, um.

[01:01:05] Still holding the horse. The horse was out of the barn already, right? The horse is out of the bond Ray, and I don't care why that happened, but we're just looking at statistics and facts right now. So that's great. So I'm, I'm, I'm not a complete idiot. I actually maybe saw some patterns here that are meaningful.

[01:01:22] Now I also have to tell for those of you who are tuning into an interview with my friend Mark for the first time, he's not just a brilliant statistician. But he's one strong dude. Mark, how old are you now? I'm a 64. Carl. 64. And, and you have been a competitive power lifter for how long Mark? Uh, since, um, college has since age 19.

[01:01:46] Okay. And you have dead lifted four times your body weight. Three times. Thanks. Thanks for building me up.

[01:01:58] I mean, if [01:02:00] there ever is a percent of body weight was about 3.4, that's pretty outstanding. Pretty outstanding. So, and are you missing the gym Mark? Uh, to some extent, yes. Uh, not going into details. I have some access, um, to, um, to wait, but I am missing the gym. I have all sorts of aches and pains that I did not have before this lay off.

[01:02:26] Now keep in mind, I am training at home, but it's very limited. Like I do my farmer's walks as a starting point. I bought an Airdyne 86 boy, that thing is harder than I ever thought it was going to be. Um. I have kettlebells and dumbbells and I have a bench, but it's just not the same as going in. Like the thing I noticed the most is I hurt my right hip.

[01:02:51] For those of you who know what a real hip injury is, you feel it in your groin. You don't feel it out here by your gluteus minimus. When you hurt your hip, you [01:03:00] feel it in your crotch. So I was doing some very heavy bent over. Um, T-bar rows with a, uh, with, uh, with the, uh, an Olympic bar and, and a pull down handle.

[01:03:13] And then, or the Veep, uh, pull down handle. And I got too wide on it one day and I felt this grinding sensation in my groin. It was my hip. I went to the doctor, they did an X Ray. They said they really couldn't see anything. A CT scan would show more. I didn't want to subject myself to a CT scan. I just went on with my business.

[01:03:34] Well, uh, I have. Constantly. I've always, whenever I train legs, I always do abduction and abduction work, and I do heavy adduction, abduction work because I think it's important to stabilize the upper legs. I don't want to fall getting out of the shower some day because one foot slides out. I want to have that strength to keep my feet together.

[01:03:51] Well. That bugger has been hurting me and I know it's because the, the muscles that keep that joint from banging [01:04:00] around that keep it suspended nicely are getting weaker and weaker and I need to get to the gym soon because I am starting to feel this layoff. I really am and it makes me, it makes me sad. I hope I can correct some of these problems.

[01:04:14] Yeah. My biggest issue right now, so I've got a minor. Light problem. If I could get it worked on a little bit, I think it'd be fine. But that's not going to happen anytime she and unfortunately, no, nobody's coming to your house to fix anything. Listen, Mark, thanks so much for coming on the air today to talk about this and uh, for doing the taking.

[01:04:31] I know you're a very busy guy and you took time, uh, to, to put into this and see if there was anything to it. And I appreciate this and what I'm going to do with this, I'm going to excerpt this and I'm going to send it around to the media so they can see, uh, your, your discussion as well. Okay. Sounds great.

[01:04:48] Thanks Mark. And that's it for today. Don't forget the Donald Walton, uh, Murphy Murphy's borough Tennessee is the winner. Uh, and, uh, those of you who entered you [01:05:00] will be getting a wonderful opportunity to take advantage of a constellation prize and thank you to James nester. His book is called breathe, uh, the, uh, new science of a lost art.

[01:05:13] And you can get This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.. And that's it for today. We have a show tomorrow. Oh, you've been seeing a lot of Judy megabits in the media. She's going to be here tomorrow. He's going to be on this show tomorrow and she's going to talk about the, uh, covert 19 coverup and she's very well respected and, uh, she's not a zealot.

[01:05:33] She's a very level headed person. If you really want to hear something, tomorrow is the time to tune in. That's it for today. Thank you for being here. And, uh, we'll see you soon. Share the show, share the show, always share the shows. [01:06:00]