[00:00:00] Carl Lanore: [00:00:00] Repair to experience the strongest radio allowable by law will be revealed.

[00:00:14] It's super fun. Radio with your host Ola door.

[00:00:31] Well, I hope you can see me. I mean, hear me because you can't see me. I got to do something. Hang on guys. Hang on one second. I'll take myself off camera and put myself back on camera. Wonderful. Here we go. Oh, okay. There we go. Okay, well, problem solved. I think you can see me now. Anyway, we have a great show planned for you today.

[00:00:50] I got to learn to put my mic further away from my mouth. I've been told I am over modulating. Um, today we're going to be talking about how, uh, spending time in the [00:01:00] garden is actually linked to better health and wellbeing. Later in the show, uh, we're going to be talking about, someone called me out on one of my rants about my understanding of viruses in virology, and so I'm going to see if I can defend my position, but chances are I won't and I'll be exposed for knowing nothing about virology.

[00:01:18] So that'll be a good, good thing. Before we get started, of course, we must thank our title sponsor legendary foods. The website is legendary.com. If you go there, uh, you will be able to save 10% off anything you buy there. They're tasty. Pastry is amazing. It's a pop tart with nine grams of protein, less than one gram of sugar by him for your kids.

[00:01:40] School is going to be starting again. Eventually someday, uh, send them to school with this. Their friends will think they're eating a garbage Poptart but they're actually eating something healthy. Um. You can get those, you can get there. Um, seasoned nuts, seasoned almond are unbelievable, and they also have nut butters that tastes like they're loaded with sugar, but they're not.

[00:01:58] Eat legendary.com is the [00:02:00] website. Use the code SHR 10 to save 10% off all of your purchases. Let me bring my guests on to balance the ugly face that I have with the pretty face that dr Shawn Debelle has. How are you doing, dr ?

[00:02:13] Dr. Sian de Bell, PhD: [00:02:13] Good.

[00:02:14] Carl Lanore: [00:02:14] Thanks for being here with us today. So, um, this study that you are, the lead author, uh, looked at the people who spend time in the garden looked at their health and their wellbeing and found a correlation.

[00:02:26] Why this study? What, what research preceded this that you felt these questions needed to be answered.

[00:02:36] Dr. Sian de Bell, PhD: [00:02:36] It's kind of quite a bit of research that went on that made us decide to do this one. So, I mean, firstly, there's all this researching that green spaces, good for our health and wellbeing, um, and kind of increasing amounts of that, but it tends to concentrate on, you know, if you live in an agreed in neighborhood, um, uh, is your health better?

[00:02:53] Or look at things like parks and playing fields and other public spaces like that. If you kind of, um, look at [00:03:00] particular urban areas, lots of the lung cover is gardens. I think in the UK, I'm not quite sure on the stats for America, but about 30% of mine cover, um, it's made up of garden. So obviously there's a real potential there for, you know, benefiting people's health and wellbeing if these, there are these links between green space and health.

[00:03:17] So we're interested in looking at that. Um, yeah.

[00:03:22] Carl Lanore: [00:03:22] So, I mean, do we see the same. Um, effects of just spending time in parks that we know that, and you, you talk about this in your research, right, that people have access to green spaces as you say, and they, they can go to parks. Is there something magical about getting your hands in the dirt?

[00:03:40] I remember we did a show probably four or five years ago, that there was some sort of microbe in soil that helped to mitigate depression.

[00:03:51] Dr. Sian de Bell, PhD: [00:03:51] Yeah, so I think that's one of the, well, one of the reasons that waiver particularly interested in this, because obviously. If you're [00:04:00] having a garden, it's quite different having a public space, isn't it?

[00:04:03] That has this kind of sense of ownership and as controlled, you can do what you want. But also, um, I mean, this is, we were looking kind of at gardening Germany and our study, but that, that happiness and study showing that when you're growing a plant, your kind of, you know, connecting with it and that kind of, um.

[00:04:24] Because, you know, when it splits, it's that sort of thing that, that kind of really concurrent features that's wellbeing, having this looks

[00:04:31] Carl Lanore: [00:04:31] so, so, so it almost comes back to the whole notion that purpose seems to make people feel better about their lives. And if you have this purpose of caring for this plant, and especially if it's a vegetable that you're going to harvest and eat, make a salad from, there's a, there's this sense of, uh, accomplishment that probably hearkens back to our evolutionary days

[00:04:52] Dr. Sian de Bell, PhD: [00:04:52] right.

[00:04:53] Exactly. Yeah. Um, and coming back to what you were saying about the kind of environmental, um, side of things. So there are several, [00:05:00] so this hasn't been looked at for gardens, but when we're looking at public green spaces, there are kind of separate kind of environmental hypothesis. About how they might be benefiting health and wellbeing.

[00:05:10] So like you said, the kind of microbes in the soil potentially, but also, you know, been exposed, exposed to microbes more generally, that could potentially be good for your immune system. Um, and just being outside the U, I don't know if you heard that the vitamin D hypothesis that, that kind of, you know, being in the sunshine and then boosting a bitumen D, it's actually

[00:05:26] Carl Lanore: [00:05:26] really important.

[00:05:28] So, um. You found in this research that the health benefits and wellbeing observed in people who gardened was comparable to people who lived in wealthier parts of the country versus the poorest parts of the country, correct? Yeah, that's right. But wouldn't it make sense that wealthy people have more access to gardens to begin with?

[00:05:56] Dr. Sian de Bell, PhD: [00:05:56] Yeah. So we, this is something that we thought about in the [00:06:00] study. So first of all, we kind of looked at the sample and looked at who had access to a garden and whether we could see differences. Um, so there were some kind of differentials, you know, people in, um, the beam wealthier areas were more likely to have a private garden.

[00:06:15] Um, older people were more likely to have a private garden. The HD, the vast majority of people still did have access. So I think it was about. 90% of people in this highest income category, but still 70% in the lowest income country. So then when we actually run the models, we put in those kind of variables on income and where people lived to see whether they were the ones there were the things kind of influencing that relationship.

[00:06:43] And we found that after controlling for them, that association between gardening and health is still there.

[00:06:50] Carl Lanore: [00:06:50] So, because that was my next question. My next question was going to be, does it make sense that people who are already healthy and have [00:07:00] energy would do lots of different activities, including gardening and people who don't feel good.

[00:07:07] And have lots of chronic pain are unhealthy. They wouldn't venture out into the garden because they attribute that work to feeling horrible. Is there a possibility that healthier people just garden? And that's why we have a higher level of health and wellbeing and gardeners.

[00:07:25] Dr. Sian de Bell, PhD: [00:07:25] So. Trying to think back to the models now on what exactly we put in.

[00:07:30] But basically, um, we looked at two activities in the garden when we were doing the studies where there was, whether you were actually being active and gardening, but we also looked at relaxing in the garden, um, because you know that they're quite different in terms of what you're doing. So we were thinking about things like this, and we found that even if you, um.

[00:07:48] Yeah. Even if you were just going out and relaxing in the car and not still connected to your wellbeing, particularly to the eudemonic wellbeing, which is how worthwhile you feel your life is. So yes, even if [00:08:00] you are kind of not, don't feel

[00:08:02] Carl Lanore: [00:08:02] you'll feel better after guarding. And that's true of activity in general.

[00:08:05] I mean, really we are designed to move and work. And we have been led to believe that the more successful you are, the less you work and the less you move, which is so counter intuitive to our evolutionary journey to begin with. But you're right, getting up and getting around and moving and, and being active.

[00:08:24] And, and you're right. And when you tie it into something where you plant something and weeks and months later, it blossoms and it flourishes and it, and it was your efforts that, that kind of. Propelled it along its path. There is a great deal of reward to that. You know, someone joked, a fellow who works for the show, Kirkland Marlette, he texted me this morning and said, because he knows Elisa Profumo books the appointments for the show, and she's an avid gardener.

[00:08:52] Her garden right now looks amazing. It looks like a resort, her backyard, and. He said, Elisa is trying [00:09:00] to influence you to work harder in the garden with them by having you do this show. But the reality is that she worked so hard in the garden, and she does say all the time that it makes her feel better to be out there with our hands in the dirt.

[00:09:14] What about grounding? There's a lot of research now that through evolution we've become more insulated. Rubber soled shoes, homes that are, you know, built where you don't touch the earth any longer. And, and I actually experienced this firsthand. Uh, we drew blood from a dark field on and put my blood on a dark field microscope, and before and after grounding and, uh, the red blood cells clump together.

[00:09:42] It's called the  effect. They've actually stack up like coins, but after grounding, they will all edge to edge. I saw immediately. Changes in by blood, uh, from grounding. What about just the fact that getting out there and touching the earth actually is contributing to some [00:10:00] charging element of our body.

[00:10:05] Dr. Sian de Bell, PhD: [00:10:05] I don't think I know much about that, but I do know. So one of the kind of main, um, hypothesis we have with green space and why it might be good for you in terms of kind of an evolutionary sense is this something called the biophilia hypothesis. Obviously you did a bulb in these natural environments.

[00:10:24] And so the, there's a theory that, you know, we're in kind of urban environments. There's lots of stresses and, um, you know, things like noise, car, noise, and, um, just kind of even visually things like concrete. And so being in a natural environment and being able to just kind of rest your eyes on, on plant life, um, or hear more natural noises is something that can kind of restore you mentally so that you're able to, um.

[00:10:51] Concentrate. That's it. And also kind of reduce the stresses. And, yeah,

[00:10:57] Carl Lanore: [00:10:57] Ricardo Davis, who watches the show from [00:11:00] Jamaica, says that he loves making, I love making your own. He means, I'm sure he means fruit and food. And, and we, people in Jamaica always do the best. And you know, we find that more, uh, uh, rural, uh, or even, um, you know, country environments, people tend to.

[00:11:19] Do more planting and harvesting of their own foods. And as you get into the cities, there's less of that because space is a commodity. But you can still do this on your back deck. Lots of people are building box gardens now where they have, you know, uh, maybe a couple meter a meter by a couple meter wide box.

[00:11:41] They'll plant stuff in it and they'll harvest their herbs and you can still do all this stuff. Uh, even without the edit space. So how was this study designed? Explain how this study was designed. How did you get your information for this study?

[00:11:55] Dr. Sian de Bell, PhD: [00:11:55] So this all came from survey data. So. There's a [00:12:00] survey that we've run this in England.

[00:12:02] It's run by a government body, um, and it's weekly, and they, the sample is kind of representative of the general population. Um, and it's asking about people's, you know, visits, their natural environment and their contact with nature. And there are a couple of questions in that one asking people about, but they have access to a garden.

[00:12:20] And so, you know, a private garden, a private kind of outdoor space, like a concrete yard or private calming your garden. And then there's also a question which asks them about whether they, um, garden door rats in the garden. So those were the kind of main things that we concentrated on from the survey.

[00:12:35] But then it also asks all this information about things like the age and agenda, um, or this kind of inf income information so that we can look at those, um, in the models and whether they might be influencing

[00:12:45] Carl Lanore: [00:12:45] people's health. This was over a pretty long length of time too, right? How long would it start?

[00:12:51] When did it start?

[00:12:52] Dr. Sian de Bell, PhD: [00:12:52] And 10, yeah, 10 years ago. So, yeah.

[00:12:56] Carl Lanore: [00:12:56] So consistently when people spend time [00:13:00] gardening there, their ability to identify their lives as having more joy and feeling better and feeling healthier and being engaged, that that was much higher.

[00:13:12] Dr. Sian de Bell, PhD: [00:13:12] Yeah, exactly. We looked to, um, like two types of wellbeing.

[00:13:15] So one is feeling satisfied with your life and one is, um, how worthwhile you think you'd like this. And both of those were, um, associated with health and wellbeing. I think one of the kind of interesting things is that having a private garden was, um. Associated with better value to feeling your life is more, um, more satisfied with your life, but actually doing this gardening.

[00:13:36] But I seen your garden that was, um, associated with feeding it was worthwhile. So, yeah, that's really something about, you know, keeping things worthwhile. Friends doing that. There's activities in the garden.

[00:13:46] Carl Lanore: [00:13:46] Did it matter if you were growing beautiful flowers versus edible plants?

[00:13:54] Dr. Sian de Bell, PhD: [00:13:54] Unfortunately, we didn't have that much information on what people actually did.

[00:13:57] It was just, you know, whether they had [00:14:00] gardens. Um, but I think, yeah, that would be something that'd be really interesting to look at in further research. Um, and I know from some kind of qualitative, um, work that both of these, you know. But these are associated with, um, with health and then people finding things with well, and I think, um, I think they would the kind of fruit and veggie growing, um, there also opportunities from that obviously to, you know, improve things like nutrition and so potentially some more benefits there.

[00:14:30] Carl Lanore: [00:14:30] Yeah. I mean, I know there are more benefits, but I think that people who love to grow pretty flowers. They probably are just thrilled to have a garden filled with pretty flowers that they don't get to eat. And people who love the idea, you know, the whole farm to table movement. And you know, actually the UK is way ahead of the United States in this area.

[00:14:50] They really are. They put a lot more value on growing food, even though we have the Midwest, which is commercial growing. But I, [00:15:00] and I actually think that Prince Charles and some of the Royal family have kind of set. The tone, because you know, they have that beautiful garden. They have their own honey, they have their own cows that they, they, they milk, uh, and they drink raw, unpasteurized milk, which everybody thinks, Oh, it's so bad for you.

[00:15:15] Um, so I kind of feel like. Regardless of how you feel about the minor monarchy and their contribution to governing, they, they have set the stage that these things are important. And, and here in the United States, we have people, you know, in government saying, Oh, you don't have to worry about organic and, you know, consume all of the, uh, the pesticide ladened vegetables.

[00:15:39] They're, they're okay. And it's completely opposite, which causes a lot of confusion for people. They, well, is it good or isn't it good? Um. But it's, it's really interesting because we are starting to see now, because of the farm to table movement, people are becoming more conscious about local growers and the quality of locally grown [00:16:00] foods, and they're asking the right question.

[00:16:02] So we're now seeing kind of an awakening, even in the inner cities. We're now starting to see people go, Oh, you know, I think I want grass fed beef, grass finished beef. I think I want organic, you know, uh, vegetables. And so it's, it's, it's really becoming very important. And growing your own is the best because you have complete control on what goes on it.

[00:16:26] Dr. Sian de Bell, PhD: [00:16:26] So, yeah.

[00:16:27] Carl Lanore: [00:16:27] So, um, talk more about this study. So were there any, any things that popped out at you that you didn't expect to learn from this research?

[00:16:41] Dr. Sian de Bell, PhD: [00:16:41] I don't think there was anything. Massive and expected, or I guess we were kind of hoping that, you know, it would help it be linked in this way. But I think two of the things that probably my surprising word, just how strong the relationship was, you know, as you said, it's, it's the same [00:17:00] as, um, the difference between those in the highest income group and the lowest income groups.

[00:17:04] I don't think we expected to be quite that big right. But also another thing that we looked at, um, in the study was whether people, um, visited nature, um, more if they had a garden and used it or not. And we actually found that people did, um, tend to do that. So that was quite interesting from the point of view of, of former thinking about planning open environment, say, um, it's really important to have gardens and have parks and places like that.

[00:17:33] Um, and I guess also maybe there's something there around, you know, people. In real connected in nature, be more likely to visit parks.

[00:17:43] Carl Lanore: [00:17:43] So do you expect, so there are now here in the United States, we have urban gardens, right? So where people in a community will start a cooperative and they'll, they'll literally rent a piece of land and every person will get a [00:18:00] little plot and you go and grow what you want on it. Um, do you suspect that this.

[00:18:06] Phenomenon will, can, will confer over to people who are living in inner cities that are far away from nature, but have these little plots where they can go and garden. Do you suspect that this could actually become a public health resource at some point in time for people in the inner cities?

[00:18:24] Dr. Sian de Bell, PhD: [00:18:24] Yeah, definitely.

[00:18:25] I think, um, yeah. I think that having. That's, I mean, I know it's not immediately buy the home, but it's still a space that you kind of have ownership of and that you can do what you want with. So I think that there's definitely, you'll see some of the benefits and I think, um, there've been some studies on kind of allotment gardening, um, which have found, again, these associations with health and wellbeing.

[00:18:48] Um, yeah, so real potential there.

[00:18:51] Carl Lanore: [00:18:51] But here in the United States, we have some governors. Who have literally told people they couldn't [00:19:00] garden during the covert 19 epidemic. Like, like they've like for instance, you will not allow, I think in Minnesota or Michigan, maybe it's Michigan. You will not allow it to go to the store and buy seeds, which obviously that would be like the first thing you would do if you wanted a garden.

[00:19:17] And a lot of people complain that their gardens aren't going to be prepared because you're not, the time to plant is past. We have people saying that, you know, Oh, this is a bad idea. Going out and gardening. It's dangerous, you know, Cobra 19 but at the same time, couldn't it have actually been protective for people to garden?

[00:19:36] Is there any evidence that gardening conveys some sort of protection?

[00:19:44] Dr. Sian de Bell, PhD: [00:19:44] Well, I didn't know about protection that, you know, if he can get out and garden. I think that just. Everyone, you know, there are so many kinds of pressures from, from Quebec and locked down and things like that, and putting [00:20:00] pressure, particularly on people's mental health, um, and actually physical health as well.

[00:20:03] Not being able to go out to the park, say for a run. Um, that I think. It's been important. And I guess, um, something that has been talked about quite a lot in the media here in that you can raise, you know, how lucky people who have access to a God, not because I can get out and garden and the house that way, even if, um,

[00:20:25] Carl Lanore: [00:20:25] yeah, I have to believe that being outdoors during, so people, I'm old, I'm, I'll be 62 this month and I remember my parents talking about.

[00:20:37] The TB epidemic, the tuberculosis epidemic here in the United States. And I remember them talking about that there was a movement. They discovered that when you had tuberculosis, the more time you spent outdoors in the sun, the fewer symptoms you develop and you tended to stay robust. So tuberculosis [00:21:00] used to be called consumption.

[00:21:02] And the reason they call it consumption is because this disease appeared to consume the, the host. They became weak and withered and hunched over and weaker, and, and then they eventually just died. And so what happened was. People started to move out to California, out to Arizona, out to the desert, and they built sanitariums out there because the sanitariums out there took you out of your room in the morning and put you out in front of the sun, sat you on a chair, laid you on a gurney, you stayed all day up there, you ate, you drank, you received whatever therapies.

[00:21:38] Then they brought you in at night and you slept in doors. And what they discovered was. These people were outliving the people who were in sanitariums in the inner cities where they just kept you in a room and locked up all the time because they were afraid you were going to give the disease to somebody else.

[00:21:53] And you know, it almost, it almost seems preposterous that our [00:22:00] responses often too. Contractable conveyable diseases is lock yourself up in your house, devoid of sun, recycle the air that everyone is breathing, and that's where you should be. And it baffles me because I often think to myself, wow, our politicians are good at getting elected, but they really don't know anything about helping people get through tough times.

[00:22:26] Dr. Sian de Bell, PhD: [00:22:26] Yeah.

[00:22:28] Carl Lanore: [00:22:28] I know you don't want to put your foot in that one with me, but it just baffles me. I think that people like they should be saying, Hey, while you're home, start a garden in your backyard. Like get out there and work in the dirt instead of just staying in your home. Afraid that there's this bubble of virus that's going to land in your nose.

[00:22:46] Like get out there and do some work. So

[00:22:49] Dr. Sian de Bell, PhD: [00:22:49] I guess I kind of said some things get out there.

[00:22:55] Carl Lanore: [00:22:55] That would have been like, that's what they should have said. Hey, we're going to make you stay in your house for the next month. You [00:23:00] have a backyard. Why don't you order some seeds online and garden? This is the time to go out in your backyard and garden.

[00:23:06] People would have been better off. They would've got sun. We're going to take a quick commercial break. When we come back, we're going to pick this discussion up. Maybe some of you in the audience will actually consider a gardening. If you haven't, we've actually done entire shows with Elisa Profumo on how to do your own box garden.

[00:23:22] I'll dig that show up and maybe we'll rerun it this week so some of you can, uh, can get on this. It's not too late. Stay tuned. We'll be right back. Human

[00:23:38] welcome back. We're talking with dr Sean Debelle, we're talking about why you should spend more time in your garden. Uh, of course this question came up and it's a question that I posed. Unfortunately, it just says Facebook user, because this person who posted this question has security settings that don't allow us to show their name.

[00:23:56] Otherwise we would. He says, maybe people who garden are just more happy [00:24:00] in the first place. Um, so it's, we, we did talk about that, but there is some you, you are able to tease out. That even people who tended not to be happy in the beginning after they gardened, they felt better.

[00:24:15] Dr. Sian de Bell, PhD: [00:24:15] Yeah. So it's the sort of thing that we included in a model of this one, it's the controls, like how, like how happy would be anyway.

[00:24:25] Carl Lanore: [00:24:25] Um. Where is mr Lenore? I hope you can see me. My camera looks like it's working, at least to me. It does. Uh, Patrick Rogers who has a farm and the guy processes his own cows. I mean, he's never going to worry about the end of the world, the apocalypse, because he's got everything covered. He said, how many people actually are in a garden working?

[00:24:43] There are only two working in my garden. You're right. I get what you're saying. So you're responding to my, my comment about, uh, governor saying you're not allowed to garden so. I've come to the conclusion that many of the politicians who have taken strong [00:25:00] positions, uh, in this covert 19, no nothing, uh, have not they, that they're not critical thinkers.

[00:25:06] The governor of Illinois said, um, only two people are allowed on a boat at one time. Even if it's a, if it's a cabin cruiser and somebody said, but we're a family of four. We've been living together this entire time, locked in the same house. Why can't we all four get on the boat and the governor, they said, no, only two people, like there's no rhyme or reason why governors are doing what they're doing.

[00:25:30] The idea that you can't garden, you can't buy seeds. That that was just. You know, I don't want to be harsh, but it's just, it has, has, it's not founded in fact or science. Uh, people are just doing what they want to do, but you're absolutely right. And most of the time people have fairly big gardens. Your, your, your social distancing being out in the garden a lot of time.

[00:25:49] So, um, so getting back to the study at hand. Even though it's so green spaces play a role in this. Even if you don't garden, it seems to be [00:26:00] better to live in green areas. And I say this right now because we are literally looking at homes on more than five acres right now. Cause I want to be out in the country.

[00:26:11] I want a lot of land between me and the people that lived by me. Not because I'm. Antisocial, but I just know that when I'm out in the country, I just feel less stressed out. There's gotta be something else about being out there that's good for you, right?

[00:26:30] Dr. Sian de Bell, PhD: [00:26:30] Yeah. Well, say like say about wanting to kind of be out.

[00:26:35] I guess it's kind of footing and itself and then not to weld, isn't it? Thinking about all the different things that are more than just the gardening, things like the sounds of nature and being able to see just nature and. Yes. Now let's touch things like this.

[00:26:49] Carl Lanore: [00:26:49] Will your group try to ascertain the reasons why these phenomenons occur?

[00:26:54] Will you start to look at anything that we can assess physiologically [00:27:00] on people to determine, well, let's see why people feel better.

[00:27:04] Dr. Sian de Bell, PhD: [00:27:04] Yeah. So I think that we're interested in, um, you know, one of the first things that we've talked about, the Kia is, um, different. You know, what, what's in the garden, what's in people's gardens?

[00:27:13] Are there trees, lots of trees, um, you know, things like water. So there's been quite a lot of research at the center sharing that kind of environments with, um, yeah, with water and with particularly coastal environments that are good for health and wellbeing. So it'd be interesting to look at. And there's also, um, some quite interesting research that's looked at how in gardens.

[00:27:33] The trees that, you know, you're kind of the view of what you're seeing in the different trees you're seeing potentially being health. I think another one that's quite interesting is looking at, um, things like, but species, you know, these kinds of carrots, charismatic species that people are going to see a lot and whether potentially they might be linked to your health and wellbeing.

[00:27:51] Because when we look at green spaces, um. Stacy's bad. People seem more . Things like that I see. Tend to [00:28:00] be kind of more restorative, more XPN mental wellbeing as well.

[00:28:04] Carl Lanore: [00:28:04] So I'm sorry, go ahead. Well, I was going to say, well, well, just so, just being able to see off into the horizon, just being able to allow rays of light focused on infinity to fall upon.

[00:28:19] The, the eye has a relaxing effect. You know, we, we live, we live in a world of within six feet. Everything we do is within six feet. Our dashboard, the bumpers of our cars, you know, the monitors of our computers, the books that we read, everything is within six feet. This constant convergence and this constant, uh, refractory effect of having to.

[00:28:45] Muscles engage. When you look far away, everything in your eyes relaxed. The crystalline lens relaxes, stopped pulling on the globe of the eye. The face feels that relaxation, the yoke muscles, the rectus [00:29:00] muscles, they relax, the eyes stares off and that actual event, and that's why I tell people who work.

[00:29:08] You know, if you work in a closed office, you have to find a way to, uh. Two to exercise, looking off into the horizon where everything relaxes and you feel the sense of calm come over you immediately. And that happens naturally when you're out walking in the woods or you're in your garden and the nearest thing to you is the sky.

[00:29:29] You know? It's like, wow, I could look up at the sky. It's a wonderful feeling. We forget, you know, we have really not given any respect to evolution. We just think we're so smart. We can just biohack our way through everything. It's like, no. Sometimes you got to go back to the basics and just look off into the horizon.

[00:29:48] Dr. Sian de Bell, PhD: [00:29:48] Yeah. I used to. Um, so in my PhD I worked in a lab. So quite a lot of it like looking at microgreens, lots of microscope work and just, I always used to set up my microscope cause there was this big window with a [00:30:00] tree in one corner that view my break staring off at a tree. Otherwise it come out at the end of the day and just not be able to.

[00:30:06] Yeah.

[00:30:08] Carl Lanore: [00:30:08] Yeah. No, it's, it's, it's very fascinating. And I am going to rerun the show. We did a couple shows, you know, I've been doing this podcast for 14 years. I got a lot of shows that I could rerun. I could rerun my shows and not work for probably about five years, but we did two different shows about gardening at home.

[00:30:24] If you don't have a yard. You can create box gardens, you can do it on a patio. If you live in an apartment complex, there's lots of ways to do this and the benefits are there. The benefits is still there. You still get the sense of satisfaction watching something, grow, nursing it along. And if it's a food product, actually putting it in salads with you and the kids and going, Oh wow, we grew this cucumber.

[00:30:44] How wonderful. Um, I'm going to rerun those shows.

[00:30:48] Dr. Sian de Bell, PhD: [00:30:48] It's coming back to the kind of thing, I guess as well. Like that's a cool, particularly in, you know, cities and things who might being a lot gone for ages, been able to just have a window box or something like that [00:31:00] could be something really beneficial.

[00:31:01] Carl Lanore: [00:31:01] I think it's wonderful.

[00:31:02] And I, and then I would love for your group to look at certain aspects of that occur when gardening. Right. The first one is grounding. You're actually grounded to the earth. There seems to be something to that. Um, at least from a blood chemistry. Um, it's evident that it happens quickly. Uh, there also seems to be something to the notion that there are microbes in the soil that convey a sense of wellbeing to the humans who put their hands in the soil.

[00:31:30] Um, you know, there's, there's all these different mechanisms that would seem very, very interesting to me to go, wow, these are the things that happen, because most people in science will ignore, um, correlation. Know, epidemia law, uh, epidemiologists always getting ragged on because you know that they correlate things, but sometimes those correlations are very, very casual.

[00:31:55] It's nice when we can pinpoint and say, well, this is actually what's happening that conveys this. D [00:32:00] was there any evidence of how long it takes for people to report a sense of wellbeing once they started gardening? Is it something that had to happen over long periods of time? Was it happened very quickly?

[00:32:13] Dr. Sian de Bell, PhD: [00:32:13] So it's not something that we actually had, um, data from. In the survey, but, um, some of the research that's going on at the center has looked at, so I was actually looking at visiting green spaces, but that was kind of finding that, you know, if you spend 120 minutes in green space per week, and that could be on one day or it could be kind of spread out over the whole week.

[00:32:32] That was when the, um, you know, real benefits started to emerge for your mental health

[00:32:37] Carl Lanore: [00:32:37] really quickly. Wow. That seems like a, that's not a heroic effort to just walk, you know, if you walk. So basically if you walk four times a week for 30 minutes and the green spaces around your town, or, uh, you know, out in the wilderness, that alone is going to convey a sense of wellbeing.

[00:32:57] That's easy thing. That's an easy thing to [00:33:00] fix. Well, listen, I gotta tell you, I think that this is all very fascinating stuff. Um, I hope that you'll consider coming back. And, uh, and talking more about your research when it, when it evolves.

[00:33:11] Dr. Sian de Bell, PhD: [00:33:11] Let me get some more research

[00:33:13] Carl Lanore: [00:33:13] and I'm going to get some guy, I'm going to run, rerun some old gardening shows, so we'll get people back into the idea of gardening.

[00:33:18] It's not too late. I know people go, Oh, the planting season has passed. It's still, it's still not too late. It's still not too late. Thank you, dr  for coming on today. Thank you. Take care of, uh, we are going to take a quick commercial break. And when we come back, I am going to either correct myself or defend myself.

[00:33:37] Uh, we have a listener who sent me a question about my comments that if we locked down indefinitely, this virus would come back to haunt us once we started moving around again. So let's see how right or wrong I am. Stay tuned. Okay. You are listening to this superhuman channel where ripped and we're ready.

[00:34:01] [00:34:00] Welcome back. So I have a, Oh, I got my speaker. Hold on. So I have. Been known to rant. Uh, Oh, first we got acknowledged something Patrick Rogers said, you cannot grow tomatoes in a pot. And he's right because they never get big and they stay very small. But I have seen people grow them in a gallon jug, like a milk container where you cut the base off and hang it upside down.

[00:34:29] You pour the water in the top and the plant is hanging upside down. I have seen them grow them that way. I don't know if you're familiar with this, Pat. Uh, but anyway, so back to, um. The subject at hand. So recently I said that even if we were able to shut down for six months, everybody stayed in their house.

[00:34:51] Nobody went out. Everybody just stayed in their house, in their backyard and gardened and all that sort of stuff that once we started moving around that this virus would, would [00:35:00] reemerge. And, uh, we have, uh, a fan of the show, uh, named Passie. I'm going to try to pronounce it. It looks like . I hope I did it right.

[00:35:12] Who said, uh, at an email? Very nice email. He's a big fan of the show and he actually likes my rants because he says they force people to think, ah, maybe I should think more before I do them. Uh, those rants have raised really good questions, but in one, a few weeks ago, you stated that if everybody hold up for six months, it would not help anything.

[00:35:36] That everything would just restart after that. Since the recovered people, people with antibodies would restart it. That is not simply correct unless there is some new information, uh, that makes covert 19 a virus that could somehow stay dormant and people, instead of being killed by the immune system.

[00:35:58] Mmm. [00:36:00] He goes on, if there could be a hundred percent locked down, the people that would be susceptible would be dead and others recovered, and the virus in human population would have stopped existing. That's just not how it works. So there's several types of viruses, right? There's, there's viruses that are chronic viruses like herpes simplex.

[00:36:20] They become dormant. They go back into hiding. They, they come back again. But then there are viruses that are considered. The acute viruses, right? They hit your heart and then they're gone. So we've had lots of viruses that is supposed to be acute viruses that we get vaccines for all the time. I mean, so let, let, let's explore this from a couple different standpoints, and then I'm going to show you what the who and CDC.

[00:36:47] Think about this virus. If viruses work their way through a population and then disappeared. Then we would have complete herd immunity. Mothers who would have babies would be [00:37:00] born with that immunity and that virus would never affect anybody ever again. If that's true. Why have people getting vaccines for, for, for things that don't seem to be in the population any longer.

[00:37:12] Measles, mumps, rubella, you know, polio. There. There are people who say, we have eradicated polio with the vaccine. If we eradicated polio with the vaccine, then no one would need the vaccines going forward because the mothers would have had a immunity conferred to them by the vaccine. They would have given birth.

[00:37:32] Oh, wait a minute. Vaccines don't work like that. That's right. I forgot. Vaccines don't confirm unity. You have to keep taking the vaccine. So where are the viruses living? Where are they living? Do they live out in the air, in the clouds, into dirty carpet? Where do they live? Where do they live from season to season?

[00:37:56] You know, some like the flu, the seasonal flu. [00:38:00] We get hit with it for about a couple, three months. That means, you know, eight, nine months out of the year. It's, where is it? Is it, is it in the clouds? Where is it? No, it's in people. It's in people. But our immune system is keeping it in check. So having a virus and having symptoms from a virus, a very, very different things.

[00:38:20] Everybody agrees with that. That's why I went. Now we're really realizing that coven 19 has a mortality rate stratified by age, but a general mortality rate of like point. Three six which is just slightly higher than the seasonal flu. However, it's more contagious than the seasonal flu, but we know that more and more people have it that didn't never got symptoms.

[00:38:43] So where do viruses go when they are sleeping when it comes to covert 19 both the who and CDC agree that they're not sure when it comes to Cobra 19 they're not sure if it's a chronic virus. Uh, because there have been [00:39:00] people who have had it and got reinfected what? Wait a minute. So I had the virus, I got better from the virus, and then I got reinfected.

[00:39:10] And in fact, they even say that they're not sure if these people got reinfected because they came in contact with it a second time. Or if they actually. Had a dormant version of the virus living in them that just came back around, so no one is really sure about this virus. That's not also, forget that viruses mutate when you get a virus and it, your immune system works on it as best as it can.

[00:39:45] That virus is adapt to make sure that your immune system can't. Eradicated. The virus that you pass on may actually already be mutated to be a little bit stronger than the one that you got. This is, this is pretty well [00:40:00] known. No one knows if covert 19 is mutating, usually the sign that it's mutating is second, third waves that are worse than the first.

[00:40:11] Um, and also second waves have happened in every viral outbreak in the history of man. Second and third waves happened in the Spanish flu of 2018, 2019. I mean, uh, 1918, 19, 19. And the second wave. Was, some people said as bad as the first, some people said it was not as bad, but clearly there was a second wave and then there was a third wave.

[00:40:35] So we are not sure when we, we, we know, we think we understand viruses, but you have to understand viruses are living things that a program to survive and they survive in hosts. They survive in people. So. With the CDC and the who weighing in and saying, you know, we're not sure if this is a, a dormant virus in people.

[00:40:58] Because we have seen [00:41:00] people who've gotten a second round of it. We don't know if it's because they came in contact, they had the antibodies, they fought it off the first time they had the antibodies. They got it a second time, which may actually mean that it's really dependent on your immune system. Um, the way I understand.

[00:41:17] Viruses is that once you have them, they stop making the particles that make you sick and the immune system basically keeps them under check, but they can come back. That's what I've always read about viruses, so we don't, we don't kill them. We don't kill them. We arrest them. Right. When you have virus, software puts it in a viral virus volt, right?

[00:41:45] So it can't hurt your computer, but it's still there. You have to get rid of it. So the way I understand viruses to work is viruses become dormant, meaning no symptoms. [00:42:00] And once they're dormant, they can come back around, especially if all of a sudden the guards that have been keeping it. In the virus vault kind of get weak and the virus like, Oh, I'm going to break out now.

[00:42:13] I'm going to do this all over again. And the truth is nobody knows for sure. No one knows about this virus. Uh, Japan and China, as well as North Korea have had patients who were tested positive for Cobra 19 and not contagious. They also had people test positive for code by 19 and have the antibodies to would showed that they had gotten over it and they say they're not contagious.

[00:42:38] I don't understand how you can't be contagious if you still have a living version of the virus in you. And the truth of the matter is nobody knows all these people that we're turning to and looking for good information and advice how to survive this. Don't know an effing thing that we see this everyday here in the United [00:43:00] States with Anthony Fowchee one day.

[00:43:01] This is good. One day that's bad. One day this is okay. One day that's not okay. They're learning as they go just like us. So. My humble opinion is you have to make your own choices on how you're going to survive this. And for me, I really think that this virus can come back around. I think there are people out there who don't have symptoms that are carrying it.

[00:43:23] Maybe they have anybody's, maybe they don't. Maybe some are contagious. Maybe some aren't. I mean, we just don't know. We really don't. And that's not just me. That doesn't know. The CDC doesn't know the who doesn't know. So like who else is going to tell us, like who's there saying some of that? Some people are saying the same things I'm saying.

[00:43:44] That no matter how long you wait this out, it's going to, it's going to show back up in our population. So let's get it over with now. Then there's other people say, no, the longer we stay locked down, it's gonna. It's going to die because our immune system is going to kill it. And if that's true, why are we taking [00:44:00] vaccines for things that have been eradicated from our population?

[00:44:03] See, folks. The problem is when you apply critical thinking and you start to actually use critical thinking, broad scale, like, well, well, if that's true, then why is this not true? All of a sudden you go, wow, nobody knows anything. And what they do know, they're keeping quiet because they want to sell drugs and vaccines and they want us to depend on the healthcare industry.

[00:44:26] Maybe all we need to do is get out and garden more. I know vitamin D will protect you from it. No one will ever tell me different. Almost three months ago, I wrote the article about sun vitamin D and how it actually, the immune system can actually eradicate and arrest, uh, covert 19 people with the highest 25 hydroxy levels have zero symptoms when they get infected.

[00:44:49] Well, anyway, that's it for today. Uh, I'm actually off tomorrow. But we have great shows the rest of the week, so I hope you can tune in live and please, um, [00:45:00] posse. Thank you. Patsy. I hope I'm pronouncing his name right. Um, I don't think he's watching live because it's probably the middle of the night there, but, um, I want to put his name up again.

[00:45:10] It's, it's Passie. Sacaton sakhnin I'm trying, uh, thank you for the question. I, and I appreciate people asking these kinds of questions. I really do. Wait, we have a comment here. Joe Barry showed up. Greetings. I you doing Joe? All right, well that's it for today's show. Hope you enjoyed it. Start a garden. I'll rerun some shows about gardening.

[00:45:30] For those of you who want to, uh, do this in your own home space, I think it's worthwhile. It really is. And it's not too late to start gardening. You can plant stuff now. I will talk to you Wednesday. [00:46:00]