[00:00:00] Carl Lanore: [00:00:00] I don't know I'm going to have to change that intro because I've had nothing but excuses since I've been getting back to the gym after my COVID-19 shutdown, but that'll change very shortly. Um, we have a really fascinating show today about a protein study and I promise you, it will be fascinating to you as well with professor Luc van loon in just a moment.

[00:00:22] I'm going to start with that also. Um, for many years, those of you have been listening to my show, know that I say the new evolutionary selection pressure is where you get your information from, I'm going to prove to you that that's correct because of something that happened, uh, with the show that I did yesterday with dr.

[00:00:40] Horowitz about the two peer reviewed studies on glutathione, uh, and how it protects the lungs, uh, from COVID-19 destruction, it's been taken down from some. Of the social media platforms. And so I'm telling you where you get inflammation from information from is [00:01:00] really critical today because it means the difference between life and death.

[00:01:04] Uh, before we get started, I have to thank my title sponsor, which is legendary foods. The website is legendary.com. The code is SHR for 10% off the entire purchase of anything you buy there. And remember. They're nut butters are GMO free, gluten free, uh, no added sugar and Le I mean less sugar than any of the other nut butters out there that tastes this good.

[00:01:27] Uh, but also. Don't forget, they're a tasty pastry, which is a type of pop tart. If you will, uh, with nine grams of protein and less than one gram of sugar, show them some love. They make the show possible. Eat less, eat legendary.com is the place to go. And now I'm going to welcome my guest here. Just one second.

[00:01:49] Yeah.

[00:01:53] And I got to turn my, there we go. Here we go. Sorry about that. How are you doing professor van loon? How are you?

[00:02:01] [00:02:00] Prof. Luc J.C. van Loon, Ph.D: [00:02:01] I'm fine. Thanks. Thanks for having

[00:02:03] Carl Lanore: [00:02:03] me. Thanks for being here. You know, I've actually heard your name a lot, uh, often, uh, especially in the area of nutritional research and, um, you know, I hear a lot of authors publishing lots of good work, but I never, I'm so fascinated about your study today, but also previous work you've done because of the, the.

[00:02:26] Uh, extent that you go to, to actually understand what protein does in the body once we consume it. So before we even get started, you have to explain the process of how you organize your studies to follow protein into the body. It's fascinating.

[00:02:46] Prof. Luc J.C. van Loon, Ph.D: [00:02:46] So, what you can do to measure protein synthesis in the human, a human setting is to infuse a stabilized, the double labeled amino acids, intravenously, and then they get [00:03:00] incorporated in your muscle and take muscle biopsies.

[00:03:02] And then you mentioned you ain't cooperation rates, but that bypasses the whole process of eating digestion and absorption. So we would like to not only infuse traces, intravenously, but we would also like those traces just to be incorporated in the protein you consume. But of course you can purchase any protein if labeled amino acids.

[00:03:27] So about 15 years ago and we decided to make them ourselves. So although I'm a human physiologist, we started to infuse cows. So actual a Holstine milk house with labeled amino acids, a shit load off tracer, almost 40,000 euros worth of Thrasher in the cow.

[00:03:45] Carl Lanore: [00:03:45] Wow. I hope

[00:03:47] Prof. Luc J.C. van Loon, Ph.D: [00:03:47] that got out of the car would actually includes those amino acids if it's milk.

[00:03:51] And so we milked the cow, we extract the proteins and we use that protein in vivo, in human studies in order to [00:04:00] assess digestion. Because as soon as we ingest the printing, The digestion can be full out simply by measuring the appearance rates off the label, the amino acids in the circulation, and then they go operation and muscle.

[00:04:14] So we can show basically off the two hours of eating 20 grams of protein that your muscle contains the full amino acids that were one spot of the cow. And one spot of the milk. So that basically your mom has rights. You are what you eat.

[00:04:30] Carl Lanore: [00:04:30] I know. And it's funny because you said how much money have you spent now in research, just to prove that our mothers were right about a lot of these things.

[00:04:37] It's funny.

[00:04:39] Prof. Luc J.C. van Loon, Ph.D: [00:04:39] Yep. That's a lot of love. You don't need to prove that your mom was a clinically proven. Right?

[00:04:44] Carl Lanore: [00:04:44] Right. That's fascinating. So why this particular study, what studies have been done in the past? That required you to look at this because you looking at, we've done a lot of research on the effects of [00:05:00] resistance training and post-workout protein and carbohydrate consumption and its ability to influence the protein synthetic response.

[00:05:08] But this one was, was on endurance exercise. Has this been looked at before?

[00:05:13] Prof. Luc J.C. van Loon, Ph.D: [00:05:13] So we did a few studies with, of course you started doing studies with resistance type exercise. Well, because the main thing is to stimulate drug exertion and synthesis to gain more muscle. I haven't looked at the types of protein, the amount of protein, different versions of protein, um, all foods.

[00:05:32] And then at some point you'd think like, okay, we've got this down. What's next. A lot of people, of course also do in June Stipe exercise, people that do in June to exercise don't get necessarily bigger. At least that's generally not what they aim for. But of course the muscle also reconditions too. And you can stop exercise.

[00:05:53] And obviously that also requires protein because re scheduling really remodelling your [00:06:00] muscle to look more like an endurance athlete also requires protein studies that look at that process. That's interesting.

[00:06:09] Carl Lanore: [00:06:09] And you know, we don't think about it that way. Right. We see. But the musculature of an endurance athlete.

[00:06:15] It's specifically designed by their training, but it requires muscle remodeling, which means that protein is being turned over and, and, and reestablished, the synthetic response is happening, but we don't think of the synthetic response unless the muscle gets bigger. That's fascinating. I never thought about it

[00:06:32] Prof. Luc J.C. van Loon, Ph.D: [00:06:32] that you need to need to establish is that, for example, in a June's that lead that weighs about 60 or 65 kilograms, a bodybuilder that weighs about a hundred kilograms.

[00:06:43] They both offer exercise. They have a similar muscle protein synthetic response, but in one that actually leads to a bigger guy. And then the other person that leads to a higher quality muscle, if you may. So all that adaptation [00:07:00] requires remodeling off the muscle and that so high protein synthesis off the exercise resembles remodeling, not necessarily muscle accretion, right.

[00:07:11] You and me sitting here, we have a protein sentences every day of about one to 2%. So our Mo muscle, even if we don't do exercise, he has to be muddled every three months. So they're not afraid of muscle. It's one to 2% per day. So in 5,200 days, you have completely remodeled your muscle. Wow. And you will only realize that as soon as you stop eating or you actually lie down in bed, that you don't move anymore.

[00:07:40] Then you'll see that you need anabolic stimuli on a daily basis in order to simply to maintain muscle. So it's all about maintenance and reconditioning is only a very small thought on top of maintenance.

[00:07:53] Carl Lanore: [00:07:53] So I'm fascinated by this whole, uh, uh, amino acid labeling process. So I [00:08:00] have, was there a way to establish the percentage of amino acids that were given to the cows and then produced in their milk?

[00:08:10] And then give it to the D was there a ratio to say, yeah, a hundred percent of the amino acids came out of the milk and were given and found their way in muscle.

[00:08:19] Prof. Luc J.C. van Loon, Ph.D: [00:08:19] The first thing of course now from the studies, but we'll definitely come back to the studies, but so when we started to infuse those cows, I've labeled the amino acids.

[00:08:29] Um, we were afraid that we were not going to see any of the amino acids in the milk because of course you have to find sponsors for the study. But spending 40,000 years worth of threats are in the cow and then telling them that you didn't find anything. It's not going to make any friends. But in the end we actually found about 25% off the label, the amino acids that were infused back into the milk.

[00:08:53] Carl Lanore: [00:08:53] So what did you biopsy cow muscle to see if the rest of it was in their

[00:08:57] Prof. Luc J.C. van Loon, Ph.D: [00:08:57] muscles? Uh, funny enough, we [00:09:00] actually buy a bike at some point. Um, now I have to tell you the story that of course I'm Dutch. So if you actually get only 10,000 Jewish ref to trace them back in the milk, and they're still 30,000 years of treasure in the cow, and you're cheap as a Dutchman, you want to see those 30,000 GOs back.

[00:09:19] So we butchered the cow.

[00:09:21] Carl Lanore: [00:09:21] Of course, of course,

[00:09:23] Prof. Luc J.C. van Loon, Ph.D: [00:09:23] every dish chew from intestine to liver to bone, to muscle. And that already shows you the turnover rate of all these organs. But funny enough, we also use the meats, which was of course not as highly labeled as the milk, but we used the meat in a study to show you that even mastication chewing is an important factor in driving the anabolic response to feeding.

[00:09:50] So we gave some elderly men steaks from that same cow or the same steaks, but who did they? The meat grinder.

[00:09:58] Carl Lanore: [00:09:58] Chopped meat. Yeah.

[00:10:01] [00:10:00] Prof. Luc J.C. van Loon, Ph.D: [00:10:01] And so when you put it in a meat grinder, you actually see a more rapid digestion and absorption, and also a tendency of a greater muscle protein synthetic response. And then if you go back to the literature, it's actually makes sense.

[00:10:14] There were already studies in the sixties showing that all the people that still have the thief actually also have the muscle

[00:10:23] Carl Lanore: [00:10:23] fascinating. And you know, again, you just validated something. I just said three weeks ago on this show. I prefer ground beef over steak, because I feel like it's already been chewed once and now I'm going to chew it again.

[00:10:38] So I, I believe in my heart that I'm going to get more nutrient value from eating ground beef. And basically what you just said was kind of supports my it's my theory.

[00:10:50] Prof. Luc J.C. van Loon, Ph.D: [00:10:50] Uh, think, I mean, a lot of people are always processing. They think it's always something bad. Processing of foods. Right. But think [00:11:00] about tribes where the old ladies are chewing the foods for the elderly people in the tribe that can't digest pretty well.

[00:11:07] So actually the pre chewing is something that makes complete sense. I'm not, I'm not saying that I need somebody else to start chewing my meat for me, but I mean, for the 40, for a frail elderly, for example, they don't have the teeth. That's an essential thing.

[00:11:22] Carl Lanore: [00:11:22] That's fascinating. Okay. So talk about the methods of this particular study.

[00:11:26] What exactly did you do? How was this study? Uh, uh, prepared.

[00:11:32] Prof. Luc J.C. van Loon, Ph.D: [00:11:32] So in this study, we actually used that intrinsically labeled protein, uh, procedure. So we have young guy performing June's type exercise, and they were given, uh, three different dosages of protein, a zero 1530, 45 grams. And then we assessed the digestion and absorption rates.

[00:11:55] How much of that protein becomes available in the circulation. And to what extent does it [00:12:00] stimulate muscle protein synthesis, both by a fibrillary. So he don't check trial the contractile proteins as well as the mitochondrial proteins in muscle, over a number of hours during recovery from June Stipe exercise.

[00:12:18] Carl Lanore: [00:12:18] Was the requisite dose to get the, the greatest, uh, protein synthetic response. The one that we have been talking about forever, and that is the three gram of leucine dose. Did that play out true in your, in your research?

[00:12:35] Prof. Luc J.C. van Loon, Ph.D: [00:12:35] Yes. Uh, so all the way these estimations are between two and three grams of Lucy, but of course, leucine is a very important stimulus to stimulate muscle protein synthesis.

[00:12:47] But after, during recovery from exercise, the leucine trigger is not that important because the muscle activity itself is already a very strong anabolic stimulus. So the availability of [00:13:00] building blocks is much more important. So muscles protein synthesis is stimulated, but if you don't have all the building blocks for the protein to be assembled, then you don't have a problem.

[00:13:12] So the number of essential amino acids and the rate at which they are provided during recovery from exercise is actually more important than only the amount of Lucia, because we've only Lucy. You can may stimulate protein synthesis for an hour or so. But then nothing happens.

[00:13:29] Carl Lanore: [00:13:29] See, and this is funny. So, so far for over a decade, I've been saying BCAs are a waste of time.

[00:13:35] EAs are more important. And the analogy I always gave on the show, because I'm not a doctor, I'm a simple person. I said, you know, BCAA is a, like calling all the brick layers to work. But not giving them any mortar or bricks. They need the bricks and mortar. Otherwise you have them standing around building nothing and so EAs.

[00:13:54] So what you're saying is that it's, while leucine may [00:14:00] be like the whistleblowing for everyone to come to work, all these other amino acids are what really stimulate the pro the process.

[00:14:08] Prof. Luc J.C. van Loon, Ph.D: [00:14:08] Yes, they facilitate everything. And it's not only the indispensable amino acids, because we always have terms like dispensable and indispensable amino, amino acids.

[00:14:17] But the rate at which our body can actually produce some of the amino acids is by far not enough to sustain the use during recovery of exercise. So basically you need a full assortment of all the amino acids. To support the increase in muscle protein synthesis you recovery from exercise.

[00:14:37] Carl Lanore: [00:14:37] So what kind of response did you see from?

[00:14:40] So this was a graded dosage. So w did you see, uh, an expected linear reduction in response with the lower dose, or was there some sort of magic curve that you found

[00:14:51] Prof. Luc J.C. van Loon, Ph.D: [00:14:51] now? First of all, we saw that about 70 to 75% of the whole, the protein becomes available in the first six hours of following [00:15:00] recovery from exercise.

[00:15:01] So it's not like if you think a higher dose, less comes in or a low dose, less comes in, um, basically in all doses, uh, similar amounts relative amounts came in. So that was the important, the first important factor. If you give more, more is actually released into circulation, the amount of 30 grams significantly increased the, my fibula protein synthesis rates.

[00:15:25] So the synthesis rate of the myofibril of the contractile proteins, the, um, 45 gram did not result in a further increase in my fibular protein synthesis. So 30 seems to be the optimal. If we brought it out, you can actually say 0.4, nine grams per kilogram body weights, which is about 30 grams of these guys, which roll between 70, around 70 Kita graphs.

[00:15:53] Carl Lanore: [00:15:53] So a lot of people will extrapolate that statement as you don't need more than 30 grams of protein per [00:16:00] sitting. Uh, because we, we, we established that, that the pulsatile nature of, of eating protein and then letting it wear off and that eating pro we know that that cause even autophagy plays a very, very large role in the protein synthetic response couch, contrary to what we thought years ago.

[00:16:19] A lot of people will interpret that statement as you just need 30 grams of per meal. And if you're only eating five meals a day, you know, it's 150 grams of protein. And if you're a big guy that may not be enough. So what do you say to people that say, Oh, why would I want more than 30 grams of protein if I'm not having a greater protein synthetic response.

[00:16:39] So

[00:16:40] Prof. Luc J.C. van Loon, Ph.D: [00:16:40] there's no room to meet us no reason today, more than 30 grams of protein, because it is sufficient to maximize the response. And if you have five meals. So, I mean, I have to say if you're a really active athletes and you consume four to five meals a day with 30 grams, you already have an enormous amount of [00:17:00] protein, which is well beyond the requirements that you have in order to maintain muscle.

[00:17:06] So basically it is enough for resistance type exercise. We know that 20 grams is enough to maximize post-exercise muscle protein synthesis rates.

[00:17:16] Carl Lanore: [00:17:16] Well, if that's the case, then why can't a bodybuilder become a 300 pound bodybuilder, just 150 grams of protein a day that protein has to be used for other things besides protein.

[00:17:27] Prof. Luc J.C. van Loon, Ph.D: [00:17:27] I mean, that does two things. One is the exception of athletes that do a lot of stuff that is not natural. We don't know what happens if you use huge amounts of drugs, whether that actually has an effect on your metabolism makes you less efficient if using protein. That's one, of course, there's always the effects that

[00:17:49] Carl Lanore: [00:17:49] adding protein

[00:17:50] Prof. Luc J.C. van Loon, Ph.D: [00:17:50] at some point a little more, it doesn't make that much of a difference anymore.

[00:17:54] So, uh, the low off, less, uh, greater achieve of improvements. [00:18:00] But the other thing is adjustments. The body adjusts to a high protein intake. I got a lot of people that say the proof in the pudding that I need so much protein is that when I quit eating all that protein, I started losing muscle. That's not the proof that is improved, that your body has adapted to a very high protein intake.

[00:18:22] We know that product. You noticed people that take a huge amount of supplements. You smell them as soon as, as soon as they come into the room. Right. Burn. They oxidized protein continuously. As soon as they stop eating all that protein, the body will still continue oxidizing the lots. And they might lead to lose muscle.

[00:18:42] Carl Lanore: [00:18:42] Yeah. Because that's the body wants it. If the body's going to take it from muscle because it still wants it.

[00:18:46] Prof. Luc J.C. van Loon, Ph.D: [00:18:46] Exactly. But that doesn't mean that they don't need it. That doesn't mean that they need it. They got adjusted to it.

[00:18:54] Carl Lanore: [00:18:54] Interesting.

[00:18:55] Prof. Luc J.C. van Loon, Ph.D: [00:18:55] So the body is much smarter than we think. I mean, Um, there's people that, that [00:19:00] survive on very low protein intake diets, and they still look normal.

[00:19:04] Theoretically, that would not be possible if you have a certain off rates, but we've for example, one example, we've gone through studies where we put people on a low protein intake diet for months, but we've done a study on two weeks, putting them on a low protein diet 0.7 versus 1.1 0.5. Now the interesting thing is that over the first few hours off the exercise, your intestine takes about 50% of the protein.

[00:19:32] So only 50% of the protein that's released to the circulation about 55, 50% is either not digested yet, but also mutated the guts, useful turnover off the guts. So a large portion of your meal is used for guts. Turn off her intestinal, turn off. If you put somebody two weeks to the low protein intake diet.

[00:19:52] The guts actually takes less protein and that's what we shown. So it seems that the body is so smart that [00:20:00] all these organs are communicating that the muscle and organ say, Hey, intestine, don't be so greedy because we're suffering here at the back. And then the intestine says, okay, gosh, I'll take the less, there's more for you guys.

[00:20:13] So there's a lot more going on now.

[00:20:17] Carl Lanore: [00:20:17] You know that, and that, that actually substantiates a theory that I've had for a long time, that I believe is from evolution. And that is my, my, my theory of abundance and scarcity. You know, when things are abundant, the body uses them up. Um, the first time I recognize this was a study that was written about, uh, Omega three fatty acid content consumption.

[00:20:39] If you take the same amount of fish oil every day, For weeks and months, the body starts to use these valuable fatty acids as an energy substrate. But if you consume these more, the way you would have fish, like you have one big fish meal twice a week, more of the amino [00:21:00] Omega threes are stored in fat cells and not used for.

[00:21:04] Energy substrates. So the body knows the body goes, Oh, we get this every day. We can burn it up. Or all of a sudden, if it's scarce, the body goes, Oh, we're not getting a lot of this. We have to conserve. So th that speaks to that whole evolutionary edict of, of scarcity and availability. And that's

[00:21:22] Prof. Luc J.C. van Loon, Ph.D: [00:21:22] also why the discussion on the total requirements of protein.

[00:21:27] It's not that relevant. If you don't take into account both the quality of the protein, but also the distribution drive today. Because if you consume 70% of your protein in one big dinner at night, you're actually oxidizing a lot of that protein. And that's not necessarily what you want.

[00:21:48] Carl Lanore: [00:21:48] Interesting.

[00:21:49] Which so I don't, I don't want to get off track. But I have to ask you so time restricted feeding is all the rage today, intermittent, fasting, whatever you want to call it. [00:22:00] And people are having narrower and narrower windows of eating. So there are people who fast for 20 hours and they eat for four. What you're saying is that type of approach may backfire.

[00:22:16] Prof. Luc J.C. van Loon, Ph.D: [00:22:16] Um, it is an approach that I would definitely, I think it's a very efficient, effective way to lose weight, especially for those people. That, for example, if they start eating food only say between 12 and six or 10 and four or whatever, and they start fasting after that. For me, that will be a huge effect because I probably consume 70% of my food off the seven or eight o'clock at night when I certainly thought stop munching, everything that I can get my hands on.

[00:22:45] So it's very efficient way to lose weight. And for that, it's perfect, but it's certainly not something I would advise for athletes trying to gain a lot of weights, muscle, or for elderly people trying to maintain their weights. Um, so [00:23:00] yes, I think it's not, it's not, certainly not good for everybody.

[00:23:02] Carl Lanore: [00:23:02] What role did carbohydrate consumption play in this?

[00:23:05] We know that, um, we know that carbohydrates have the ability to help shuttle nutrients that, but did carbohydrate consumption along with protein play any role at all?

[00:23:15] Prof. Luc J.C. van Loon, Ph.D: [00:23:15] No, we've, we've done studies often in June six asides and it's off the resistance exercise. And also without exercise with protein, different, a mass of protein, a different amounts of carbohydrates.

[00:23:26] And the carbohydrates doesn't do anything, at least not for protein synthesis, of course, for an athlete that also wants to replead as glycogen stores, it's important. But if you're only looking at the anabolic response to feeding really our lab, but also other labs have shown the same thing that carbohydrates do not contributes to this post-exercise muscle protein synthesis.

[00:23:50] Some suggest that it's the. Increase in insulin off the carbohydrate ingestion that does the trick or helps out, but you only need a very minor increase [00:24:00] of insulin up the rate of 15 to 20 micro units per mil, which is already achieved with 20 grams of protein. So really don't need those weight gains.

[00:24:09] It's just a really, um, expensive way of buying your protein because the stuff costs about the same. But you actually get very inexpensive carbohydrates in your protein supplements.

[00:24:21] Carl Lanore: [00:24:21] Right? Uh, so, so, uh, Jeff Clifton says, how, how does time after training play a role in the synthesis? Post-workout since you said the anabolic window, we, how long is the anabolic window?

[00:24:33] Truly. And, and, and how important is it? When do you have to start eating.

[00:24:38] Prof. Luc J.C. van Loon, Ph.D: [00:24:38] So this is, this is always the most diff this is a study we've done that. I think nobody reads and nobody understands. And I find it very difficult to explain. Um, but we actually looked at the anabolic response to feeding in the morning after performing exercise the evening before now, your [00:25:00] response to breakfast in the morning is still greater.

[00:25:04] When you performed exercise the evening before we could really show this, and this has been shown up to even 48 hours. So the increased sensitivity of the muscle to protein ingestion is a long lasting effect that actually wears off in about 20, 48 hours. Of course likely depends on the amount of muscle, the intensity of the workout, et cetera, but it's a long lasting, there's a long window of opportunity.

[00:25:30] Carl Lanore: [00:25:30] Yeah. Now I'm sorry. Go, go.

[00:25:33] Prof. Luc J.C. van Loon, Ph.D: [00:25:33] So we did the same thing and we provided people that merely 60 grams of protein, you probably have asleep. I thought if you give a lot of protein immediately, all for exercise may be your response. The next day will be minimized. That was not the case. So I wanted to show that the total amount of protein is more important than the speed at which it's given, but this study actually showed the opposite.

[00:26:00] [00:26:00] That you have a timeframe. The first of all of ours, where more protein is also more game, whether that backfires 48 hours later, I don't know. But the first of all, that I was, if you ingest more protein, you get a greater response.

[00:26:15] Carl Lanore: [00:26:15] And then, you know, so for decades I've trained first thing in the morning because my belief is every meal I eat after that is going to be partitioned more to muscle gains.

[00:26:29] And it sounds like that's probably a, uh, someone is really conscious about adding muscle. They should train first thing in the morning and then eat every so many hours throughout the day.

[00:26:39] Prof. Luc J.C. van Loon, Ph.D: [00:26:39] Yes. But a lot of people work out in the evenings and I think at least in all of them, most people work out off the work.

[00:26:46] And then that case, it's always very smart to take some protein, you know, take your meal after your training session. But if people train, for example, work out from eight to 10, And they come home. We always advise them actually to take [00:27:00] some protein prior to sleep. And this is also an interesting study because we didn't stop doing this in athletes.

[00:27:07] We started doing this in older people. Uh, I work in a hospital, so we work a lot with Eleni that are in the fat in the hospital. And they generally do not consume any protein from dinner to all the way breakfast in the morning. And if you're actually a risk group for losing a lot of muscle, that is not a small thing.

[00:27:26] So I'm not sure whether you're actually waiting for a commercial break.

[00:27:30] Carl Lanore: [00:27:30] Well, no, no. We can take it as long as you want. And actually this kind of speaks to Jeff. Clifton's other question I was going to ask you, is it true that as we get older, we have more trouble with the protein synthetic response to dietary protein, or is it that we just don't eat enough protein when we get older, now we'd

[00:27:47] Prof. Luc J.C. van Loon, Ph.D: [00:27:47] be called maybe gum anabolic leave resistance.

[00:27:50] And so what we did with these older guys, and that was really funny. Yes. We thought like, Hey, if they ingest some protein prior to sleep, are they going to benefit from it? [00:28:00] But then the first question you get is this, our guests are intestinal tract work when you sleep. And how do you study that? Because how can you feed people while they're sleeping?

[00:28:11] So what we did is actually we got our best subjects, all the people they can, they actually call us every so many times in the same. Like when can I come back for a month for our, for a study? Because I love doing studies with you guys. Even though we think muscle biopsy didn't do the most horrible things to them.

[00:28:27] So we gave them a nasal gastric tube down the nose in the guts, took a biopsy from the leg, made them sleep in the hospital. At two o'clock at night, we dipped out into the lab, put 40 grams of intrinsically labeled protein in the stomachs body days. Your guests with you. I woke him up the next morning at seven o'clock with the muscle biopsy.

[00:28:50] Now, what we saw is while they were sleeping, the protein was properly digest it even better than throughout the day and overnight, they had stimulated muscle bulk in San Francisco. [00:29:00] So that study was published as a proof of principle that it smarts to actually feed people prior to sleep as an extra meal.

[00:29:10] What athletes already had been doing for years, but in order for older people to maintain muscle while in the hospital, Okay. When that's finished, I got a lot of coaches calling me where they could get Naser guests with you, but that's not what I meant because you can just eat something before

[00:29:30] Carl Lanore: [00:29:30] highlight, like what we've always used, cottage cheese or high casein protein, because it coagulates in the stomach and it stays around longer and it digest slower.

[00:29:41] And so that's what people have always turned to. Uh, but, but I want to throw something else at you. Um, when we come back from the break, one of the things that we've learned contributes to. The development of Alzheimer's disease is the lack of brain autophagy that stimulated by eating within [00:30:00] three hours of going to bed.

[00:30:01] So just keep, keep, keep that in mind. I'm going to, I'm going to put that to you when we come back. Okay. Stay tuned. We'll be right back with more. Super elevated. This is the superhuman channel where we use oxygen for the power of good.

[00:30:17] Prof. Luc J.C. van Loon, Ph.D: [00:30:17] Welcome back.

[00:30:20] Carl Lanore: [00:30:20] I got too close to the microphone. I keep wanting to make out with the microphone.

[00:30:23] I got to forget. I keep forgetting to backup. My voice is so loud. Professor van loon, that I usually overdrive the microphone and no one can hear what I'm saying. So I have to keep reminding myself don't kiss. The microphone. This is fascinating. I'm so happy to have you on the show. I've heard about you for a long time, but I really have a great appreciation for the painstaking steps you take to eliminate the possibility of assumptions, which are very dangerous in science.

[00:30:53] And I have a great appreciation for your work. I really do a real quick, I got to acknowledge a couple of people. Tommy D said, happy [00:31:00] birthday. Thank you very much. Uh, I can't see who this person is, but they, uh, because they are, Oh, that's gotta be, Ooh, Tom, if it says Su-Preme radio happy birthday, Carl, that's gotta be with Tom.

[00:31:11] And, uh, in India, uh, Patrick Rogers are big fan of the show says great information. Uh, so does samurai Jack, who is watching live on YouTube. Thank you very much for your comments. So, um, I've had the great fortune to interview. The most brilliant minds. Uh, I I'm, I'm basically a chimpanzee in front of a microphone.

[00:31:33] I get smart people on the show and they, and they make me look interesting. And one of the guys that I interviewed twice so far, uh, starting in 2014 is dr. Dale Bredesen. Dr. Bredesen is a UCLA, uh, physician and professor who wrote the book an end to Alzheimer's and one of the, and his approach to, and he really is curing people of Alzheimer's.

[00:31:57] But he can't say that because you can't [00:32:00] say you cure anything today, unless you're a pharmaceutical company. And so he takes a multipronged lifestyle approach. And gets people who can't remember anything back into their normal lives. One of the things that he requires, he's very, very steadfast about this is a three hour window from the last meal to when you go to sleep.

[00:32:22] And the reason for this is there's a large body of evidence that, uh, when your body is digesting food at night, It's not doing other things that are more maintenance related, including autophagy in the brain that cleans up plaque and misfolded proteins and all this sort of stuff. So what you're talking about here eating right before bed, or even during sleep is probably okay for someone who.

[00:32:47] At all costs wants to build muscle as an athlete and is relatively young, but old people. Uh, w what would you say to, to research that says, well, eating right before bed, isn't the greatest idea in the world for [00:33:00] people who are already perhaps metabolically, deranged, let's say.

[00:33:05] Prof. Luc J.C. van Loon, Ph.D: [00:33:05] So basically we, we, we got that question a lot.

[00:33:09] I have not found any evidence that eating a meal, private sleep. And I'm not saying while eating, while you're lying in bed, but between dinner and go to sleep, that that has any negative side effects. Um, so far there's no literature to show that. But the only thing that we do is, for example, if you get your medial in the hospital, we know, for example, in the hospital, that old people.

[00:33:33] For example, our hospital is a very modern hospital. We have great meals. We have great nurses, uh, with great nutrition, uh, support team, but the people actually get 0.8 grams of protein, picky, grandmama, your ass, but they. Which is low, because if you look at guidelines for people recovering from, for example, knee or hip surgery, it's generally they advised between 1.2, two, even up to [00:34:00] 1.5, perhaps for curing a body mass for that similar to an athlete's basically, right?

[00:34:05] Well, they consume 0.8 are they get points, tanks. So the most of these studies, they registered what patients gets, where they are provided with, but that's not necessarily.

[00:34:20] Well, but they eat. Yeah. There's no half full and everything is taken away at some point. So we had somebody sit in the hospital and measure not only what they get, but also what they really could chew and help people that come into the hospital for a new knee or a new hip. So elective, hip, and knee surgery, all the people that still want to go skiing with the grandchildren.

[00:34:45] We have a new knee, they could chew them on the 0.5 grams of protein, but ran buddy mosque per day. That is not going to support their recovery. Right. I mean, notice. So if they don't consume any protein between [00:35:00] five or six o'clock in the evening, so all the way, the next morning at nine o'clock, then they are in the deficits.

[00:35:07] And that's why we think another meal between dinner and going to sleep a protein rich snack, not a huge three course meal, but a perfectly rich snack would benefit the recovery of all these musculoskeletal tissues. Interesting. And that's something that we're now actually looking for. And basically it's what everybody does because who doesn't eat after six o'clock in the evening.

[00:35:30] I don't know many people that don't have any

[00:35:32] Carl Lanore: [00:35:32] anymore. I, I don't, I don't, I actually, 6:00 PM is my cutoff. I I'm done eating by six 30 and I don't eat again until the next morning or post-workout because I I've been using time restricted feeding, but I'm not convinced it's the best thing for me any longer.

[00:35:51] Um, I'm starting to come around and think, you know, I don't know that it makes me feel great, uh, time [00:36:00] restricted feeding, and I'm actually starting to look at. Adapting more of a traditional bodybuilding diet first meal, go to the gym and train post-workout meal and then a meal every two and a half to three hours.

[00:36:12] And I'm, and you know, this interview has changed my mind. I'm a big protein consumer. I consume on an average day, 300 grams of protein. And when I, and I'm not training right now. And when I'm training, I consume more like 400. I eat a pound. Of animal flesh three times in three meals, and then I eat other eggs in the morning.

[00:36:33] So I'm, I'm consuming a lot of protein and I'm thinking to myself, you know, I think I'm going to give professor van loons approach a try. I think I'm going to cut back to maybe 30 or 40 grams of protein per sitting. Try to lose some body fat at the same time and let my body adjust to this new protein threshold and see what happens.

[00:36:52] Maybe I'll feel a lot better too.

[00:36:56] Prof. Luc J.C. van Loon, Ph.D: [00:36:56] Um, also to come back to your suggestion or you talk about [00:37:00] the brain. So we focus on muscle and somewhat tendons and ligaments, but most of muscle, but recently we started to also measure turnover rates in all different tissues and actually want studies. I never expected me to do a study like that.

[00:37:17] We worked with neurosurgeons in our hospital to measure the turnover of the human brain. So we have people in their severe epilepsy, they get brain surgery and the healthy brain is basically taken out. So they open up the skull, take the brain out. So what we actually didn't really infuse people prior to surgery.

[00:37:36] We've labeled amino acids and we measured protein synthesis in the brain over the hours of surgery until of course the part of the brain taken out. We actually showed that the brain. Has a huge turnoff, which is much higher than ever anticipated because a lot of the old textbooks will tell you that the brain doesn't hardly has any turnover.

[00:37:58] But, [00:38:00] um, nowadays we know that nerve tissue also has a regenerative capacity, but the brain actually has a turnover, which is actually, uh, twice to three times as high as the muscle. Wow. It's still much lower than the, than, than, than the liver, the pancreas or the intestine, but it's actually in between the muscle and these organs.

[00:38:24] Carl Lanore: [00:38:24] That's fascinating. So, so is, so in that case, once again, more protein is better as you age. I'm not saying, I'm not saying no, no, I'm not suggesting three, 400 grams, but the average older person doesn't consume enough protein to begin with.

[00:38:40] Prof. Luc J.C. van Loon, Ph.D: [00:38:40] No, no, no. I fully agree on that part. So if you're healthy and you're still active, you generally consume 1.1 grams per protein per kilogram, body mass per day.

[00:38:50] And that is enough to maintain your muscle. It's not ideal if you're gaining muscle then more, maybe, maybe better if you want to gain muscle. But [00:39:00] 1.1 is a very nice amount of protein to maintain your muscle and be in a steady state. But most elderly that'd become frail. They start exercising less. They start moving less.

[00:39:10] They become independent, not, not less independence. And then they start consuming less. And when they start consuming less energy, they also consume less protein. And then the first thing that happens is they become deficient in the amount of protein, right. And then somewhere at 0.8 grams per kilogram, body mass today.

[00:39:29] And then you actually start being better off. If you combine it with protein supplementation, but of course the best thing is not supplementing. The best thing is becoming more active and anymore.

[00:39:42] Carl Lanore: [00:39:42] Right? Right. So the first

[00:39:44] Prof. Luc J.C. van Loon, Ph.D: [00:39:44] thing is, I mean, I, in Europe, nobody actually knows Jack Lamb. Um, but you probably remember him.

[00:39:52] I mean, I thought it was great that he actually Fabi before any publications. He said, [00:40:00] exercise is skin. The tuition is screen and together you have a kingdom or, Hey, you don't need more than that.

[00:40:07] Carl Lanore: [00:40:07] Right? That's very accurate. I want to take our last commercial break. And when we come back, I want to go ahead and discuss the conclusions of your research.

[00:40:15] We'll be right back with more. Stay tuned, please. This is the superhuman channel doing reps with the weight of the world. Welcome back. We're talking with professor

[00:40:27] Prof. Luc J.C. van Loon, Ph.D: [00:40:27] Luke van loon

[00:40:28] Carl Lanore: [00:40:28] about his recent study on endurance training and. Protein synthetic response of a pro dietary protein. So let's just go ahead and sum up the conclusions from this particular study, please.

[00:40:41] Prof. Luc J.C. van Loon, Ph.D: [00:40:41] So the first conclusion was that protein in different amounts during, during recovery from, and June Stipe exercise is probably digested and absorbed with about 70 to 75% of the protein derived amino acids being released in the circulation. Um, 30 grams of protein, most efficient to maximize. [00:41:00] A contractor, all muscle protein synthesis rates, 45 grams did not lead to a greater, uh, um, response.

[00:41:09] Um, this was for the culture, rectal protein for the mitochondrial protein synthesis. We did not see an increase in mitochondrial protein synthesis during that short recovery period of a few hours. And it was didn't seem to be responsive to the protein. Uh, this has been shown by other studies. That likely the mitochondrial protein adaptation actually happens further down the road doing recovery.

[00:41:34] So whether it's responsive to the protein or not will be done, no, but it happens at a later stage. And those were the most important things. But what you do have to realize, because we used the Trichy labeled protein, we could track where the protein actually ended up. And the protein derived amino acids were incorporated in the contractile protein.

[00:41:56] And we were, of course also seen in the mitochondrial protein [00:42:00] because normal protein turnover, um, those actually require the protein that you ingest, but that doesn't mean that the absolute rate is fired. So we see that all the protein that you ingest off for exercise is actually used as building blocks for both my fibrillar, as well as mitochondrial protein.

[00:42:19] Carl Lanore: [00:42:19] So, you know, I've never really heard the discussion about mitochondrial protein before I, you know, I've asked lots of different scientists, who've been on the show about mitochondrial biogenesis and turnover. Like how long does a mitochondria last? Does it have a, uh, an asymptomatic process where most mitochondria lasts this long?

[00:42:42] Uh, you know, like we know about red blood cells and stuff like that, but also. Um, how to influence a mitochondrial biogenesis that is going to improve both, uh, function, uh, and, uh, and maybe even the size and number of, [00:43:00] of mitochondria, what role does protein have in that process? So

[00:43:05] Prof. Luc J.C. van Loon, Ph.D: [00:43:05] it's obvious that, so when you ingest protein during recovery from exercise, you see it in Korea or in Greece.

[00:43:12] And in my, in my femoral protein, But you don't seem to see that after the first few hours of recovery and mitochondrial protein. So obviously it suggests, and that we noticed from molecular signaling, of course, that the mitochondrial protein gets reconditioned in a more longer timeframe you recovery from, for example, you would stop exercise.

[00:43:34] But of course, what we now know from mitochondrial proteins is a mitochondria in itself. We always use them. I mean, I was thought as a student that there are these little star ships floating around in the cell, but nowadays we know that there isn't a single mind that come to hit some on network. Right.

[00:43:52] And so that network is constantly evolving and remodeling. And similar to the  via fibula [00:44:00] proteins. So he acted MIG the contract, all units. Also the mitochondrial network is constantly remodeling. And for example, for an endurance athletes, that is a complete different remodeling than for the requirements of a resistance type athlete or sprinter.

[00:44:15] So in that remodeling resembles likely increase in mitochondrial protein synthesis that you can see over time. Do you

[00:44:22] Carl Lanore: [00:44:22] think that bodybuilders are right avoiding endurance exercise? Because as we established in the beginning of the show, it's a different type of remodeling that takes place. If you're all you're care about is building more lean body mass and not the quality of your muscle, or does paying attention to the quality of the muscle by incorporating endurance training in give you something better.

[00:44:47] Prof. Luc J.C. van Loon, Ph.D: [00:44:47] So one of our assistant professors is now doing a very interesting project where dad's suggestions that, I mean, this is not for bodybuilders, but this is for older [00:45:00] people that it's important for all the people first to build up more a festival and network. So more blood vessels in the muscle. So doing first, a lot of Juven Stipe work.

[00:45:11] So that the festival network is actually really mobilized and that actually allows you to get great of muscle gains while you stop resistance type exercise. So this is the ACO project where we're actually looking at first and doing stranding before you stopped doing resistance

[00:45:28] Carl Lanore: [00:45:28] training. You know, it makes sense, right?

[00:45:31] If you're a farmer, right. You put the irrigation in first, before you plant this crop, otherwise you have nothing to feed the crop. So this is fascinating. Will you, um, help us connect with, with your colleague to have them on the show when this research is available?

[00:45:48] Prof. Luc J.C. van Loon, Ph.D: [00:45:48] Yeah, no worries.

[00:45:49] Carl Lanore: [00:45:49] Okay. I'll have Lisa reach out to you about that.

[00:45:51] Um, what do you want clinicians? Specifically, because we have a lot of clinicians that listen to the show. What do you want clinicians to take away from your most [00:46:00] recent research?

[00:46:01] Prof. Luc J.C. van Loon, Ph.D: [00:46:01] So from all those studies with intrinsic, you label protein and you said it very correctly. I don't like assumptions and algorithms and difficult, uh, correlated calculations with the address, the level of, and you see what you see is what you get.

[00:46:16] If there's more on the muscle, more of the protein actually land than the muscle now in shorts. We see that about 10% of the protein that you ingest is converted to muscle during the first five hours after eating. So from 20 grams, about two grams, just converted to muscle. If you're physically inactive, it's less.

[00:46:39] We actually see that the lag that is immobilized to be cost a leg. We see less of the protein being converted to muscle. If you're exercising more of that, protein is converted to muscle. So I've actually translated that from the general public and three very simple statements, you are what you just ate, where you [00:47:00] become physically active.

[00:47:01] You are more of what you just ate. And if you become physically inactive, you are less of what you just ate. Now, this is two things. When you become more of what you just ate as the athletes, and he will actually take care of that. He has the right nutrition to maximize that effect. But for the people, if the issues go Vince and mobilization bad for X and activity, you actually less than what you just ate.

[00:47:30] So basically even if you eat, consume the same, you have a lesser response to it. You'll become antibiotic resistance. So you actually have to eat more to get the same response. But the reality is that you're eating less. The only way of actually doing they're improving. That is not only to eat more, but also exercise more because then you use more of what you get.

[00:47:55] That's a greater efficiency. So basically this means for [00:48:00] most physicians, don't feed people when they're lying in beds. Where's the TV in the hospital, in every hospital or wherever in the world, above the beds. Right. Wrong. Where do people get their foods in beds wrong? Alright, so you have to mobilize a little bit before they get the foods because they have more of the protein and the foods will be converted to muscle.

[00:48:26] And that is essential for muscle maintenance and more couldn't it be compromised populations.

[00:48:32] Carl Lanore: [00:48:32] So, um, that one of the things that just peaked my interest. So the ratio you gave a moment ago, you know, uh, this percentage of what you eat. A protein goes into muscle. Does that happen? Every subsequent meal after a training or does it just happen?

[00:48:51] That one meal and then it diminishes the longer you wait to eat again.

[00:48:56] Prof. Luc J.C. van Loon, Ph.D: [00:48:56] Um, be done now. No, I mean, these are not the only [00:49:00] studies where we actually were able to do this because we have this intrinsically labeled protein. We take the muscle, we see how much is in there. And we assume then that, that muscle is representative of Oreos for me, the muscle that's already, ever imitation.

[00:49:13] Of course. Right. Um, how would I respond to the next meal and the next meal and the next meal? We don't know nowadays we're using different things. The X with deuterated water to look at protein sentences over several days or several weeks, but that research is still, um, relatively skosh compared to any acute responses.

[00:49:34] But of course you first want to know what happens after a single week. What do you want to know how to translate in the long tail?

[00:49:40] Carl Lanore: [00:49:40] Yeah, no, it's fascinating stuff. It's great stuff. And I want to thank you so much for taking time to be on the show today. Thank you very much. And we'll have you back as you have more research and please, uh, put I'll heavily email you to get in touch with your colleague about that other study, uh, that there were fine.

[00:49:56] Thank you very much, professor van and have a great day. [00:50:00] You

[00:50:00] Prof. Luc J.C. van Loon, Ph.D: [00:50:00] too. Take care.

[00:50:01] Carl Lanore: [00:50:01] Uh, we're going to take one quick commercial break. And when we come back, I'm going to tell you something interesting that happened yesterday. And that is, uh, as many of you may know, I did an interview with dr. Richard Horowitz yesterday about glutathione supplementation for people with COVID-19 and how it can protect the lungs from being further damaged by the pneumonia portion.

[00:50:27] Of, uh, of COVID-19 and these are both peer reviewed studies. This is not like, you know, Vudu. These are both peer reviewed studies and well-established, uh, uh, medical journals. And for some reason, YouTube felt like it had to remove my video. And it's sad. It's very sad. And I'm going to tell you why it said when we come back, but the reality is that, uh, like I've said before, uh, where you get your information from is the new.

[00:51:00] [00:50:59] Evolutionary selection pressure, because it will affect how long you live or how soon you die. You are listening to the superhuman channel we're ripped and we're ready.

[00:51:17] Welcome back. I'll be real brief. Real brief. First of all, JL Scott says Carl NPC and fitness community. We all miss you in Phoenix. I did live in Phoenix for a couple of years, actually on and off two years on and off, I was there for about five or six months. I left. I came back for about six or seven months.

[00:51:35] Um, thank you. And thank you for, uh, for watching today. So those of you were actually watching on, uh, on YouTube. You'll notice that yesterday show is gone. YouTube deemed that, um, A medical doctor, uh, who has been trained in medicine and peer reviewed research, [00:52:00] um, is not a value to the YouTube community. In fact, they told me in a, in an email that they had to remove it because I was discussing COVID-19 stuff.

[00:52:11] Now, there are plenty of things up there about COVID-19 ironically, right? Fowchee he's on YouTube. You know, all these PR purported experts who have literally led us down this path of nonsense. I mean, come on. I don't care who you are. You have to realize that all this stuff about COVID-19, it's like all of a sudden, just like that, it's gone.

[00:52:36] Oh, we got riots now. So we have, you know, you couldn't go to funerals. The the, the, the, the people in New York, the Jewish community in New York, they couldn't go to the funerals, but somehow rioters are okay. And protesters are okay. I mean, this is a lot of malarkey to steal a term from Joe Biden, which is Irish food crap.

[00:52:55] It's so silly, but let's talk about [00:53:00] real issues of saving lives. The interview that I did yesterday with dr. Horowitz has the ability to literally save somebody's life. If they are suffering, if they actually have a COVID-19 and they are suffering from one of the side effects, which is damage to the lungs, the use of glutathione, I'm looking for a comment that someone I want to, I want to read to you.

[00:53:25] The use of glutathione can actually. Stop them from damaging their lungs for the rest of their lives. Why is that harmful information? Why we're not telling people to do anything risky glutathione. It's a supplement. It's a good supplement. There's a reason. That there is a suppression on information out there.

[00:53:49] There, there are people who want to control the information. Now I wouldn't mind them controlling the information. I was going to read something from Joel green, but I can't pull it up fast enough. So Joel, I'm sorry, but Joe had a great [00:54:00] quote on Facebook that sums this up, but there's a reason that people want to control the information.

[00:54:06] And I don't have any problem with people controlling information if they know what they're frigging talking about. But they've proven that they don't know what they're talking about. In fact, the science from the who that hydroxy chloroquine was dangerous and bad. Now we know that the scientists lied, but that was okay to promote on YouTube.

[00:54:28] I'm sure. Right. See, this is, this is why I've said on this show for almost a decade now. The new evolutionary selection pressure. It's not famine anymore. We have plenty of food. It's not ice age. It's not the threat of being eaten by saber tooth tigers. Now we're comfy in our own homes. We got protection.

[00:54:50] The new evolutionary, certain selective pressure is where you choose to get your information from the information that you choose to apply. [00:55:00] To your life, the decisions about your life, the decisions about your health, the decisions about your children's health. If you're getting bad information, then you are going to be sick.

[00:55:10] Are you sick right now while you'll watch? Are you sick? Is it because of the information that you followed? That Oh, carbs should be 40%. 60% of your diet cereal grains should be 60% of your diet. Protein should be the smallest amount of your diet. Red meat is bad eggs. Are you sick? Because if you are, it's absolutely from the choices you've made and the choices you've made have been influenced by the information you've chosen to believe.

[00:55:40] And the information you've chosen to believe is being delivered to you by authorities who say, you can believe us, because this is the truth. And like, we are so shortsighted. We don't remember anything. We don't remember how we were lied to about tobacco. Oh, yeah. I forget that. [00:56:00] We don't remember how we were lied to about Vioxx.

[00:56:03] Oh yeah. Forget that. What are people going to wake up when, and the truth of the matter is they can't wake up. If companies like YouTube are taking down information that people should be able to listen to and make their own decisions. But someone in someone said something interesting on that Facebook post, where I posted the email from YouTube.

[00:56:25] They said maybe YouTube is afraid that people are gonna read it and do something harmful to themselves. I would buy that if I was saying to do something risky, but it's frigging, gludethyon doctors prescribed glutathione. They go to the doctor and get it. It's a, a sulfur based antioxidant that your body produces.

[00:56:49] We talked about ways to help your body produce more. I'm telling you, man, it, what the scary thing that's going on today is the inflammation [00:57:00] is being controlled and hand fed to people. And a lot of the information is nonsense and we are thus making bad decisions that are causing bad health outcomes for the population.

[00:57:12] And so I'm telling you right now, open your eyes, open your ears, pay attention to everything. Be selective on what you choose to believe. And what you choose to apply to your life? I'm not even saying everything I say is right. I say, I'll provoke you to think and go search for your own because the truth of the matter is everything in life is individual, your diet, the drugs you use, the lifestyle you lead, the exercises you choose.

[00:57:41] It's all individual. You can't do what I do. I don't want you to, I don't, I may not be able to do what you do, but if we don't have information, To look at and go. That's not true for me. That's true for me. If we just get this one thing. And we think that's all there is then we're [00:58:00] destined to make bad decisions.

[00:58:01] And that's exactly what the mainstream media and modern medicine wants you to do. They want to restrict your access to information. So they remain the authorities and tell you what to do. So Rigo Vargas has, unfortunately, there's a narrative that needs to be followed. If you stray from the narrative, the sensor police step in by the way.

[00:58:19] Happy birthday, brother. Thank you. It's exactly it. Free thought is no longer free. Free thought is being discouraged. Obey, shut up and obey, obey, shut up and obey. I mean, there's people right now asking questions. Wait a minute. Like I, Walmart is open, but my neighborhood store isn't open. Like why is that?

[00:58:42] Yes. Why is that exactly why? People need to start asking questions and you gotta stop. Start, stop towing party lines. This has nothing to do with politics. This is about survival of the human species today. [00:59:00] Choose your information and choose it wisely. Don't just believe it because it comes from talking heads on the meat, in the media and the mainstream media.

[00:59:09] And don't think that Anthony Fowchee or anybody else has your best interest at heart. They don't. They absolutely don't because the, the narrative changes almost daily. Surely we have to say, are these the best experts we have? Are these the best expert opinions we have? And if they are, and if they're being sincere, then they should step up and say, you know what?

[00:59:31] We're really not sure. We're going to tell you this, but we're really not sure that this is really what it is. But they don't do that. They say things. Absolutely. And they say things with, with authority and they say, this is the way it is. And this is what you have to do. Remember the new evolutionary selection pressure, whether or not your genes are going to go on to 300 years from now, the information you choose to live by.

[00:59:56] That's the truth. That's it. For today, I'm off [01:00:00] tomorrow. I'm celebrating my birthday tomorrow. Thank you for all of you who wished me happy birthday. I can't even get to all of you, but it's, it's a wonderful feeling to have so many people, uh, be well-wishers. But Monday we have great shows. So tune in next week, please share the show.

[01:00:14] Uh, always share the show, help people. Like I said, I'm not an authority. I'm not a guru. I'm not an expert. I'm just like you, I'm in search of the truth too. That's all there is to it. I will see you Monday. Thanks for being here today. [01:01:00]