[00:00:00] Carl Lanore: [00:00:00] welcome back to superhuman radio. Today is July six, 2020. We have a really important show today. They're all important. I know. I say that a lot. People probably go call. They're not all important. Yeah, they are to somebody they're all important. And, uh, it's about auto-immunity. Our nation is deep in this rabbit hole of auto-immunity.

[00:00:18] It's very, very new, uh, but it's emerging as a very, very problematic disease. I have a guy coming on, uh, next week to talk about osteoarthritis is actually an autoimmune disorder. I've been saying it for years and I have people challenged me all the time. Just recently, I got an email from a guy who challenged me and said, my doctor says you're wrong.

[00:00:36] Well, no, your doctor's wrong. Your doctor's not up on the current research. So we're going to be talking about auto-immunity with none other than Joel green, who. When it comes to nutrition, there are a few, uh, that can even compare with the, uh, the breadth and depth of his knowledge about how it works with the body.

[00:00:56] But before we do that, of course, I have to thank my title [00:01:00] sponsor because they make these shows possible. And that's legendary foods. If you go to the website, eat legendary.com and use code SHR, you'll save 10% off all of their products. And everything that they make is what you want. If you want to snack and not go off the deep end with lots of sugar and other crap, you know, Things that are Gavi nectar, you know?

[00:01:23] Oh, it's not sugar. It's a Garvey nectar. No, it's shit. Sugar. Honey is sugar. Maple syrup is sugar. Um, so go to eat legendary.com, check them out, use the coupon code SHR. So they know that you learned about them from the show and you are supporting the show as well. Let me bring my guest on, get rid of this first and turn that off.

[00:01:45] How are you doing Joel?

[00:01:47] Joel Greene: [00:01:47] Hey, how are you, man?

[00:01:49] Carl Lanore: [00:01:49] Let me just turn up your volume. Just a tiny bit. I may have turned it down too much. There we go. That's better. Um, I'm doing good. And I mean, it's not an exaggeration. What I said about auto immunity, everybody I know [00:02:00] has some sort of autoimmune disorder and now it's just a matter of understanding that it is an autoimmune disorder like fibromyalgia.

[00:02:07] They keep going back and forth and going. It is autoimmune. It's not, it's absolutely autoimmune in nature. It's affected by diet. Anything it's effected by diet is. Autoimmune is that, is that a too broad of a statement?

[00:02:21] Joel Greene: [00:02:21] Uh, I, there, yes. It's no, I mean, it's mostly true. Yeah. Um, I, I would say it's probably the primary contributor to auto-immunity just because there's so many aspects of it that aren't even really considered in the picture.

[00:02:33] Yeah.

[00:02:33] Carl Lanore: [00:02:33] So let let's, let's just for a second. Cause you just wrote a fantastic book that everybody should go out and it's called it's called immunity code. And you can get it at Veep, nutrition, VEP, nutrition.com. Uh, and it has a great, I mean, a great testimonial from a guy who I respect completely when it comes to science.

[00:02:55] And that is Ron Penna, who says that you go beyond thinking [00:03:00] about concepts and actually deliver solutions to problems. And that's really the thing. When we talk about, auto-immunity telling somebody with Crohn's disease, Oh, it's an autoimmune disorder. Doesn't solve the problem. Who? Okay. Okay. So it's an autoimmune disorder.

[00:03:12] What do I do now? Right, right.

[00:03:15] Joel Greene: [00:03:15] Yep. Yep.

[00:03:16] Carl Lanore: [00:03:16] So, so talk about just the 30,000 foot view about what autoimmunity is, is, is it in fact, a phenomenon where things show up in your tissue that your body thinks are bad actors and tries to eradicate them and then destroy the neighboring tissue? Kind of like the, the old drive by, uh, Wars in, in Los Angeles where everybody got killed.

[00:03:37] Plus the guy that would try to kill.

[00:03:40] Joel Greene: [00:03:40] That's a good analogy. Yeah. Yeah. So the easy way to think of auto immunity is just has to do with self versus not self. And our, our body, our immune system is always looking for things that are not self and in the process of eating, particularly, you know, in the process of what we incorporate into our tissues in the [00:04:00] diet, uh, we take in raw materials.

[00:04:02] So we take in building materials in effect. Sub straight things that are needed to make the architecture of the body and think of it just as bricks. So, um, it's very possible that you can take in what's called quote unquote bricks that the body will incorporate into. Let's say the walls of the art infrastructure that the immune system sees has not self.

[00:04:23] And what it will do then is again, to track those things that are not self, uh, in order to get rid of them. And. It happens every day. Like normal immunity involves, um, always on an ongoing basis, autoimmune initiatives to a level of degree with that degree, the difference really just gets to signal versus noise.

[00:04:42] So there's the noise of immunity auto-immunity, which is always going on and you don't notice it. It's just in the background and then it becomes signal. It becomes, uh, something you've noticed when you've got way too much going on. And that's where it becomes an issue.

[00:04:57] Carl Lanore: [00:04:57] So what's the name of this glycoprotein?

[00:04:59] I'm not going to [00:05:00] try to say it. It's a, it's actually, even the acronym is difficult, right?

[00:05:04] Joel Greene: [00:05:04] Yeah. Yeah. There's a fucking, we're going to talk about is called  acid and it is a sugar. It's the easy way to think of it. Um, and it's a sugar, oddly enough. It's found in meat.

[00:05:17] Carl Lanore: [00:05:17] So it's bound to protein. It's bound to protein base.

[00:05:19] That's what a glycoprotein is. It's, it's, it's a, it's a molecule of sugar and a molecule approaching bound together. Right.

[00:05:26] Joel Greene: [00:05:26] Right. Uh, and collect cans are very much under appreciated when it comes to their function and their use across the body and particularly in immunity. So the thing about glycans that you have to begin with is that they make up most of the key membranes of the body.

[00:05:43] Most of them are made up of a bike hand. Um, so combinations of sugars and proteins together, and they are very much involved, um, in the immune process. They're they're central mediators of immunity. So we don't think of me like containing sugar. Normally we don't think of it that way. In fact, [00:06:00] I remember there was a thread that, uh, you and myself and Ron, and I think Mark Bell were in on, or you're talking about issues with meat.

[00:06:07] And I mentioned, well, one of the issues with meat is sugars. And I was referring to this, so, and glycol on hurricane mimic acid. And it goes by an acronym by Benjamin you, and it is a sugar that you take in from meat sources. And it's a glycogen that gets get incorporated into the tissues of your body. So that's what it is.

[00:06:27] Carl Lanore: [00:06:27] So it's now all mammals have this, this glycan, correct?

[00:06:33] Joel Greene: [00:06:33] Well, we have, we have species specific like

[00:06:37] Carl Lanore: [00:06:37] that. That's what I was going for. So this is, this is where really some of the challenges come in, because these are in fact species specific as a result. That's why they seem to maybe be red flags for our immune system.

[00:06:51] Because, because it's interesting, when we think of these as a, as you're discussing this, I'm thinking of, uh, analogies. [00:07:00] So we have smart bombs that if you paint it with a certain frequency of laser, you can paint the roof. It looks for that. So these glycans are actually designed to develop immunity. We say, Hey, we need to put these glycans out there so that when these things show up, the immune system goes after them.

[00:07:19] Now, all of a sudden, instead of painting the terrorists. Roof you're painting the neighbor's roofs as well. And all of a sudden the smart bombs, aren't so smart anymore. They're doing their job, but they're just being misdirected. So it sounds like this, this glycoprotein actually causes the immune system to misdirect its efforts.

[00:07:40] Joel Greene: [00:07:40] Yeah. I love that analogy. That's very good. Really good analogy. Um, yeah, really. So, uh, I think the way to think of, uh, glycoproteins is that they, they, they function as antigens. That's what they can function as is antigens. And so if you have antigens that become incorporated into your tissues, then through the [00:08:00] process of sensing those antigens, the body's always sort of, you know, painting them with a laser, so to speak, to see if it's friend or foe.

[00:08:07] And so to use your analogy, that's exactly what can happen if you have, um, let's say the tiles of your roof, um, too many of these, uh, Too many of these in place, then you're going to get painted or are the risks going to get painted to get targeted? That's a very good, very good explanation.

[00:08:22] Carl Lanore: [00:08:22] Yeah. Okay. So these, these glycoproteins seem to occur in, in, in red meat.

[00:08:30] Why is red meat? The problem? Cause because I want to back up for a second. So I had dr. Grundy on this show five years ago, the plant paradox guy. And since, since him, lot of people have come out and said, if you have autoimmunity, you just have to cut out everything that grows out of the ground. Go straight, animal protein, animal fats, nothing else.

[00:08:53] And some people. Some people actually get relief from their auto immunity, from the carnivores keto [00:09:00] diet, but not everybody. Some people continue to see their auto muni and they're baffled. It's like, well, if meat's not work, if you've got something else going on, but what you're talking about here is red meat can contribute to auto-immunity.

[00:09:13] How does it do that?

[00:09:15] Joel Greene: [00:09:15] Yeah. So there's, there's, there's two things in what you said, one, you mentioned that there is, um, sort of a feeling of relief when you come off something else and you go on like an all meat diet, and there's very good reasons for that, but they have nothing to do. Um, so much with the cessation of plant immunity, more, they have more to do with the function of how aminos actually work within the colonocytes in the gut.

[00:09:39] So that's sort of one thing we'll cover maybe at the end of the show. Um, but the other piece of it. So how does meat contribute to auto-immunity is actually pretty fascinating up front. I'm a meat guy. I love meat. I eat meat. I'm very, for me, in fact, in, uh, 2007, I wrote, um, some of the, [00:10:00] you know, pretty early on with writing articles about the benefits of red meat and listing all the studies and all that stuff.

[00:10:06] So I've always been very pro meat. Um, but the, the way to think of it is like, it's kind of like water. Meat is, is like water and sense that water's great. Waters showed you need water. It's essential too much. It'll kill you. Right. And meat is very much the same way. So what I would say about me is that it's essential.

[00:10:26] You needed too much and you're gonna have issues. And so let's, let's kind of paint the whole combo with that because, um, every time I get into this, you get these hyperpolarized, you know, tribes. The pro meet plant. Yeah. Well, you're just against,

[00:10:39] Carl Lanore: [00:10:39] if you, if you, if your diet comes with a membership card and an annual cruise, you're eating it for the wrong reason, that's it?

[00:10:47] So I'm going to say

[00:10:49] Joel Greene: [00:10:49] a good one. Yeah. Okay. Uh, yeah, so I, I, I've got a big stack of rib-eyes in my fridge, so, so neat people lay off. Okay. Right. But, but [00:11:00] what we're working towards here is what's true. We're just working towards, what's true about how the body works. And so to say that all auto immune issues come from plants, that's not true.

[00:11:09] That's mistaken. And in fact, we could, we could do shows on why that's not true, but specific to me, the issue you get is so you have five, you have, you have an glycol Enduro-Matic acid and mix. Okay. And it exists naturally in meets natural sugar. What happens is when you take that into the diet, then. Your body's going to break down everything in the meat and it's going to use it for raw materials.

[00:11:34] One of the things it's going to do is it's going to take, uh, it's going to take, I call neurogenic acid. It's going to pull it into the golgi complex and you're going to get, uh, what's called citation of glycans going on. Okay. And then what's going to happen is it's going to kick, kick back out into the cytosol and now it's available for incorporation into glycans into the cell membrane.

[00:11:55] So it takes that raw building material that's in meat. Takes it in, breaks it [00:12:00] down and uses it in cell membranes.

[00:12:02] Carl Lanore: [00:12:02] It's interchangeable. It's like, it's like NATO ammo, right? If I find your bullets on the sale.

[00:12:08] Joel Greene: [00:12:08] Yeah. Great example. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Pretty much. Yeah. It's like five, five, six. All right. So what happens is when you get that five, five, six in our body and it gets incorporated, here's the cell membrane and it gets incorporated into the cell membrane.

[00:12:24] Carl Lanore: [00:12:24] Keep talking, I'm going to put this image up while you're talking and keep talking. Good.

[00:12:28] Joel Greene: [00:12:28] So what's going to happen is you can see it there. You can see it sticking out of the cell membrane looks like that. That little pair of

[00:12:36] Carl Lanore: [00:12:36] looks like it looks like television antennas. It looks like. Yeah. Okay. Right,

[00:12:40] Joel Greene: [00:12:40] right.

[00:12:41] So it's going to stick out of the cell membrane. So now here's, what's going on. You have a nonhuman sugar sticking out of your cell membrane. Okay. It's non-human, it's not native to the human body, the sugar. So your immune system looks at that. And so that's not human attack. So [00:13:00] there is an antibody that is an anti, uh, five NGC antibody.

[00:13:06] And it will begin to attack that. Now again, let's go back to signal and noise, not a big deal, not a big deal in small amounts. You've always got all kinds of autoimmune reactions going on. It's just not that big a deal. But what happens, what can happen is when you get too much of it, like your, your cell membranes become permeated with those little antennas, poking out all over the place.

[00:13:29] Well, then what happens? You're gonna make more antibiotics. So then what happens? Well then as the body cell membranes, particularly in the gut, you begin to have this, this non-human sugar poking out everywhere. Well, now all of a sudden you've got this ongoing immune reaction that rises above the level of noise to become.

[00:13:50] Uh, very, uh, very

[00:13:51] Carl Lanore: [00:13:51] potent it's like whack-a-mole yeah, it, it sticks its head up and the immune system goes, Hey, look at that and goes right at it.

[00:13:57] Joel Greene: [00:13:57] Yeah. It's whack-a-mole,

[00:14:01] [00:14:00] Carl Lanore: [00:14:01] you know, I have this uncanny ability to make everything that's technically scientific sounds stupid. Oh yeah. It's whack-a-mole

[00:14:11] Joel Greene: [00:14:11] I love it.

[00:14:14] That's the analogy. It's all your little whack-a-mole. So, again, not a big deal. Like if you're eating, you know, a regular diet and you're having, you know, steak and, and all that, it's just not a big deal. It's balanced out. But what can happen is if you're taking in tons of substrate, tons of tons of in, by columnar medic acid and the membranes, the membranes of your body are just getting saturated with this.

[00:14:42] Now you can get a disease. And that disease is called Xeno cellulitis. So Xeno means external. Um, in fact, uh, uh, in glycol Neurobic acid is what's known as a Xeno auto antigen. So [00:15:00] it's an auto antigen auto antigens can promote or provoke auto-immunity and they are external to the body. So yeah, when you begin to take in nothing but meat, well, what you're doing is you're playing a game of math.

[00:15:13] You're taking in lots and lots and lots of substrate that substrate can be incorporated into the body's tissues. And then you have lots and lots of those little in tennis poking out, and now you might begin to notice something. Um, I tell you for a fact, I've had people that I know that have come to me for different reasons, and they were doing one thing.

[00:15:32] Then they switched to another thing and they went all meat and, you know, they've had auto autoimmune issues. Um, I'm not saying that's the cause, but it's certainly maybe a huge factor. So.

[00:15:42] Carl Lanore: [00:15:42] So, so, so, so let's, let's go back to the days, the days of anecdotal evidence in the early years of physical culture of Vince Geronda almond, Tanny, uh, Jacquelyn, all believed that you had to, like, if you could eat beef, [00:16:00] protein, chicken, protein, egg, protein, whey protein, but you shouldn't just eat beef protein because they claimed when someone went strictly.

[00:16:10] Just one type of, uh, nutritional, uh, protein source and I'm looking for something. Cause I put it up here. They, that they actually developed. Immune responses. They had allergies, they become it's that they would eat this stuff and they would feel horrible or they'd break out in hives where they'd have this and that.

[00:16:31] And so back then, these guys said you got to rotate your protein, or you start to become allergic to it. It sounds to me that they stumbled onto this phenomenon without realizing what was going on. A

[00:16:42] Joel Greene: [00:16:42] 100%, 100%. Yeah. Um, anybody that's been around the game of nutrition long enough and worked with enough people that really knows their stuff will probably tell you that.

[00:16:55] Just not even knowing about what we're talking about, they'll tell you that now you [00:17:00] need to vary it up because if you don't, you're going to get an allergy. If you keep eating chicken or, and if you just keep eating this, you're going to get an allergy. And it's just true of really I'd argue. It's true of any food, but if you do too much of any one food, you're going to get an allergy.

[00:17:13] Carl Lanore: [00:17:13] When I was a kid, when I was a kid, Joel, I was very fat. However, I drank milk all day long. I just loved the milk. And then in fact, my father used to joke and say, we're going to have to buy a cow because we can't keep up. And I became very fat from drinking milk. I also developed an allergy to milk. And I had to stop drinking it.

[00:17:37] And there you go, because what was happening with the milk is similar to what was happening. If you drank a gallon of milk every single day, whatever those building blocks that you're giving your body that are being salvaged from that milk are going to be incorporated into your cell membranes at a higher density.

[00:17:55] More of, and this is when the immune system goes, wow, what's going on over [00:18:00] there. Maybe we should send some inflammation over there to destroy something. So it's a really interesting.

[00:18:05] Joel Greene: [00:18:05] Uh, you, you just hit on something that, um, that, that is so, so important to what's true. And come back to what I was saying, like, we're just, we're just looking for what's true, but that's all we're looking for.

[00:18:18] We're looking for. What's really true. And how do things actually work? So when we ask how to things work, we're asking about machinery and like, well, how's it work that does the gas go in cylinder first and then the piston, you know, pushes the how's it work? That's what we're looking for. So what you just hit on, um, It was one of the central arguments I made in my book, which was that balance.

[00:18:38] Isn't just like a nice sounding idea or a cool sounding word. It's an essential reality based on how the body actually works. It's mechanistic in its nature. So that what you'll, what, what I've seen. I think what you're speaking to, I think when a lot of people who've done this long enough will say is that when you see sort of too much of any one thing, you're going to see issues, you're going to see autoimmune issues.

[00:19:00] [00:18:59] You're going to see, um, You're going to see issues pop up that were never there before. Um, you never had an issue and all of a sudden you did way too much of something for too long a time. And now you can't do that one thing or now you have issues. And I think that's very common in the, in the relevant experience.

[00:19:14] Carl Lanore: [00:19:14] And to that point, it's not just me. It could be somebody who eats pasta for five meals a day for 20 years, they'll end up developing auto immune issues. Because of the building blocks that they just drown their body. And it doesn't matter, you know, this and you know, and this is really intriguing, balanced diet is an overused term that has lost any real meaning today because balance has been driven by eat these products like, Oh, you should be eating these products too, but really at the end of the day, If you look at us from an evolutionary perspective with, we were told that we were opportunistic.

[00:19:50] We, the reason we survived is because we were opportunistic, but what, you know, why we were opportunistic? Cause we had nothing continue continuously and consistently. So we were always [00:20:00] switching foods based on what was available based on the climate of where we live based on the weather at the time. So this idea that, you know, people come out and go, Oh, Prehistoric man.

[00:20:10] All he ate was meat. That's BS.

[00:20:15] Bullshit. I know, but God forbid you say that to the people. They're like, Oh no. What else could they have eaten in the winter time? There were no plants. Okay. So they didn't need plants in winter time, but they probably ate them in the summertime.

[00:20:27] Joel Greene: [00:20:27] Well, this is, uh, I, um, I don't know if I hit this well enough in my book.

[00:20:31] Uh, I might do some extra videos on it, but, um, it gets to, uh, it gets to. It gets to the idea of the power of narrative and narrative and science very often get conflated. So things that you think are science or really narrative and things that are, um, you know, it's easy to conflate it's doing, and, and it's, it's something you have to be kind of very careful about.

[00:20:53] So there's all these ancestral narratives today and they're useful. I use them. Okay. They're useful to an extent. [00:21:00] Like, but they are not, they're not gospel. They are not fat. So when we hook up ancestral narratives of what people did, the real trick is no one knows nobody was, nobody was there,

[00:21:11] Carl Lanore: [00:21:11] but you know, what's good.

[00:21:12] But you know, what's really good that you've done on this show and we've done numerous shows using current Hunter gatherers when there are still Hunter gatherer societies out there that have remained fairly intact and we find out, Oh my God, when they find. A beehive in a cave, that's got like 60 pounds of honey.

[00:21:32] They eat the honey all day long until it's gone. Right. So this idea that we'll know there, they're always in ketosis, baloney. That's why we're opportunistic because we can survive on just about anything we find that doesn't kill us.

[00:21:44] Joel Greene: [00:21:44] Totally. Yeah. I mean, my, my, my response to when someone's giving the ancestral narrative of what people ate and that's all they ate was well, where was the refrigerator?

[00:21:57] Because it's not like it had truckloads [00:22:00] of it's like you had refrigerator sitting by truckloads of meat, you ate what was available. Um, I'm thinking back to a show that you and I did. And that was a really good show. We were talking about, uh, ancestral diets and what people ate and, and, um, for that show, I actually went and looked at, uh, the available data on ancestral diets.

[00:22:18] And what was interesting was that for, for the, I would say all of the studies that I reviewed for that. They weren't based on what people actually ate. They were based on inferring what the researcher fuck eight based on what was there. Right. But that that's not, that's not reality. And, um, there was something else for that show that I did.

[00:22:40] I went down to, uh, the mission here in San Juan Capistrano, down here in orange County and on the mission wall, they actually had the, uh, the paleo Indians. And how would they hate on the wall? And their diet was, uh, Varied. It included things like, um, seals. Uh, they would hunt the whales. Uh, it [00:23:00] included foxes, it included deer, but then it included, uh, berries.

[00:23:04] It included nuts. It included roots. It included everything. It just was whatever was available. They would eat.

[00:23:10] Carl Lanore: [00:23:10] That's it and that, and that's why we have to stop this monolithic approach to nutrition, quite frankly. But there are some things that people are allergic to. You got to learn what those are. You got to pay attention.

[00:23:20] You know, if I eat something and I literally become congested, or if I eat something and I get a tickle in my throat immediately upon swallowing it, I think that's probably not good for me because that's my immune system reacting to what I'm putting in my mouth. It's not even in my cells yet at that point in time.

[00:23:36] So, you know, people need to pay attention to that.

[00:23:39] Joel Greene: [00:23:39] Yeah, very much so, um, that, that brings up a very important point, which, um, in my book, I talked a lot about if you want to get on the fiber bandwagon, um, you need to kind of ease into it. You need to sort of manage your symptoms until you're asymptomatic.

[00:23:59] And [00:24:00] it's really true of anything. So some people they'll eat meat and they're just not comfortable with feel nauseated. Well it's because you ate too much. So we're always. The point of the point of my book was that Indian centric health puts the immunity, uh, the body's immune system at the center of everything you're doing.

[00:24:15] So we're always, we're always having immune reactions to stop, always having immune reactions to food. Um, it's just that they're very small, as long as they're very small, you don't notice them. And then you find that you can do more of a thing that you used to not be able to do. And so. Immunity and immune reactions and managing them in respect to food.

[00:24:32] It's more like for like balancing a ball in the air than it is a black and white proposition. You can go eat things that you think you can't handle. And if you just eat much, much smaller amounts and hermetically work your way up the chain, you'll find you can adapt to a lot of

[00:24:46] Carl Lanore: [00:24:46] things. Yeah. I just got, I'm looking at some people are saying that they can't hear you very well, but your volume is wide open.

[00:24:53] So I don't understand. Maybe it was just there in there. We're going to take a quick commercial break. When we come back, I want to, I want to [00:25:00] flip the script a little bit, you know, I get so frustrated when I see these absolute comments about alkalinity and acidity. And I happened to know that the body regulates alkalinity in a city in specific tissue, very, very tightly.

[00:25:15] And it's not a monolith. Your brain and your pancreas are much, have much lower pH higher acidity than some other tissue. So it's not like as though your whole body's supposed to be 7.6 and also this. Idea that what you eat can greatly influence the pH of your body is really a lie because your body will steal minerals from your bones to keep that, that narrow scope.

[00:25:42] However, with that being said, there's a lot of missing information and misunderstanding about what actually causes a greater degree of acidity and. Alkalinity in the body. And I want to talk about meat because everybody says, Oh, meat is acidic because amino acids and amino acids are acids. And so it's acidic.

[00:25:59] Right? [00:26:00] So we're going to talk about that when we come back and I'd appreciate it. If those of you. Who have been watching and commenting, just let me know that Joel's audio is where it belongs and we'll be right back with more superheroes cbd.com today to learn more, move over superheroes. This is the superhuman chapel.

[00:26:21] We have two, two new sponsors and we have more. We act, I actually, she found somebody to sell. That is just, the guy is unbelievable. I mean, we're going to be, I'm going to be back at a two hour show in no time at all. Um, but this company here has a great product. This is a transdermal CBD patch that delivers 40 milligrams of CBD, powerful CBD pain, analgesic CBD, right to the source instead of taking it.

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[00:27:05] It works. So if you have a chronic niggling pain, as you get older and you don't want to take end CEDS, and you don't want to take something systemically because your shoulder hurts, this is it, man. This is all you need. Planet earth CBD, transdermal patches, check them out anyway, you know, um, God, I'm sorry.

[00:27:24] Joel Greene: [00:27:24] Oh yeah, just a quick, a quick CBD note. Uh, actually a CBD and a Piedmontese note. Uh, two, can I do two? Yeah. So a CBD, um, with this whole COVID thing, one thing to understand is that, um, My opinion is that the sweet spot for short circuiting, the virus is to short circuit it before it ever attaches to the cell.

[00:27:47] And so to do that, you'd want to basically want to stop the cytokine storm. So you want it. You want to interfere with interleukin six and CBD. Uh, is one of the best, maybe the best sort of over the counter [00:28:00] ways to do that. So good CBD. Yeah. Good CBD product is, is, uh, if you're concerned about COVID a good CBD product is essential.

[00:28:07] You have to have it because if you think you're getting sick, you want to shut down. The reason, the reason people get really, really life threatening, um, sort of conditions or

[00:28:17] Carl Lanore: [00:28:17] symptomology inflammatory spots. Yeah.

[00:28:20] Joel Greene: [00:28:20] The inflammatory storm from COVID society for me, cause shut the cytokine storm down. You're not going to have

[00:28:27] Carl Lanore: [00:28:27] people don't die from quit, but he died from the immune system's overactive response to COVID.

[00:28:34] Joel Greene: [00:28:34] Exactly. So if you shut that response down before sell a catchment, then you're never going to see the life threatening symptomology. So CDD. Yeah, it's one of the most powerful ways you can do that.

[00:28:44] Carl Lanore: [00:28:44] You know, we don't even know this because no one's looking, but I wonder how many of the asymptomatic infected people use cannabinoids, whether it's a States where it's legal to smoke weed and use [00:29:00] gummies and stuff, or they're using CBD for another reason.

[00:29:03] And then they, they went into the hospital for some. Thing else. And they were like, Oh, you you've got coping. Like, yeah, I don't, I don't have a fever. I don't have any problems. I wonder if we could do, and like, look at that, those asymptomatic people, are they using some of these products?

[00:29:19] Joel Greene: [00:29:19] That would be really interesting.

[00:29:20] Um, I mean, it's true of all the healthy people, like all of the healthy people that are, maybe they got exposed to Kobe 95%. What's that? And it, it didn't, it didn't have really a, they didn't develop the acute symptomology. It's for it's for those reasons. They're not, they're just shutting the virus down before it attaches to the cell there, they're hiding the spike protein.

[00:29:42] They're knocking out the cytokine storm and they just do it cause they're healthy. So that's very true. The other note, uh, the Piedmontese, uh, the Piedmontese note.

[00:29:53] Carl Lanore: [00:29:53] Go ahead. I'm going to send it. I was just looking at Tommy D said that he is applying the principles from your, your book immunity code. He said that flies in the [00:30:00] face of dramatic dogmatic health and nutrition, and does some with awesome results.

[00:30:04] So that's very, very good. Yeah.

[00:30:06] Joel Greene: [00:30:06] Very Tommy.

[00:30:09] Carl Lanore: [00:30:09] Tommy's a great, he's always here. He's always listening. What am I? He's one of my big supporters. He really is.

[00:30:14] Joel Greene: [00:30:14] I love him. I was going to say on the Piedmontese thing, kind of interesting side note, but, um, I was at the, uh, I was at the Anaheim nutrition show, uh, the natural products West show about two years ago and the Montes guys were there and they were just kind of, they were making their play and I sat down and I didn't know anything about Piedmontese beef and I sat down.

[00:30:38] And we just, we just talk, cause I like talking to ranchers because ranchers, ranchers, I find know more than anybody about things you want to find a guy that's switched on, find a rancher. Right. So I was just talking to him and he was the guy that told me, which was amazing. That what you find he was going through the grades of grass fed beef and [00:31:00] what he was telling me is that what you find with.

[00:31:04] Normally in the wild with hurt animals, they're going to all stick together in a circle. And so they're all at their hoods. They're all stepping onto each other's manure. And then they're grazing on top of that. And so there's a level of immunity that those animals have. That's not found in, um, corralled or even pasture fed animals that don't have any threat.

[00:31:22] So they just wander off by themselves and they eat, and they're not getting the same level of immunity in and building it into their issues. That on the keep on case cows more because of the way that they heard of them. It's really fascinating.

[00:31:36] Carl Lanore: [00:31:36] And plus that's such a fascinating breed because who doesn't love myostatin?

[00:31:39] No animals. I mean, they're, they, they just get huge and muscular. I mean, it's just, you know, when you think about it, like who, who would you want? What, what beef do you want to eat? Like, I never thought about it, but like myostatin, no bulls and cows. They're like nothing but great dense protein. But let me ask you a question before we get into the.

[00:32:00] [00:31:59] Alkalinity acidity discussion. Um, don't don't when we cook beef, that Mallard effect is the Browning of glycogen and sugars that are in. And I would imagine glycoproteins doesn't cooking breakdown, these glycoproteins,

[00:32:19] Joel Greene: [00:32:19] uh, not, not completely. Okay.

[00:32:21] Carl Lanore: [00:32:21] Okay. Alright. Alright. Was worth a shot. So let's talk about this favorite subject of every.

[00:32:28] Health guru out there it's either essential oils or alkalinity and acidity. That's going to change your life. Talk about it with beef. Is beef really a highly acidic food to eat? Does it change your pH by eating a lot of meat?

[00:32:44] Joel Greene: [00:32:44] Well, the premise is false. The idea that, um, alkalinity and pH. So if you've read the book, you're familiar with baby talk, I call it sort of, I love it.

[00:32:55] White or black. Yeah, polarized way of looking at this. So alkalinity is good. Made us think

[00:33:00] [00:33:00] Carl Lanore: [00:33:00] that the Google guy got up nutrition. Yes, I agree.

[00:33:03] Joel Greene: [00:33:03] I Don I don't know that I just got an alcoholic

[00:33:06] Carl Lanore: [00:33:06] dad,

[00:33:06] Joel Greene: [00:33:06] you know, it's kind of, uh, that's not how the body works. It's your point? The pH in the body is a sitch. pH works as a mechanistic, switch it tightly regulates, uh, different things turning on and off.

[00:33:20] So the body's compartments as you go through the gut are tightly regulated for pH. Um, there's a guy that you want to have on the show. Uh, I think Mark Bell had him on, or Ben Greenfield had him on recently. And, um, he's the guy behind the, um, the molecular HQ hydrogen product, his name.

[00:33:40] Carl Lanore: [00:33:40] He they'd been on my show.

[00:33:41] Ready?  pills. They were actually on my, they were actually sponsors last year. Yeah,

[00:33:47] Joel Greene: [00:33:47] yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. He did my seminar back in 2017, my buddy at seminar and. His point is that the second that you kick in, um, alkaline water into the gut, the stomach acidity, neutralizes, all the alkalinity,

[00:34:00] [00:34:00] Carl Lanore: [00:34:00] which of course got the gut is got a pH of one.

[00:34:04] We're talking about battery acid. So if you think eating something that's alkaline is going to influence your body tissues. pH. When, when you literally have battery acid in there, it's like, come on. It doesn't even like the second you drink water. It becomes acidic once it gets in there. Right?

[00:34:24] Joel Greene: [00:34:24] Yeah. Yeah.

[00:34:25] So he kind of fills that argument rather. Well, I don't want to steal his thunder, but kind of in the bigger picture what's important to understand is that. We have these ideas that are true, that alkalinity is good. Acidity is bad, and that meat is acidic. And therefore that makes meat bad, but you can take that a step farther.

[00:34:44] There was a thread recently I saw by one of the kind of thought leaders in the, in the meat movement, trying to prove that, uh, the acidity of meat isn't bad, it makes the body alkaline and that's good. But, and I actually responded in that Fred, um, kind of pointing some things out, [00:35:00] but the truth is.

[00:35:01] Alkalinity and Colin is horrible. It's the last thing you want. And meat, excessive meat will alkalize the colon and that's a major cancer promoter. So it doesn't work that way. It just simply doesn't work in this simplistic black, white, good veterinarian that everybody's been sucked into that is a totally wrong.

[00:35:21] And B has nothing to do. With the reality of how things actually work, which again, we're just trying to figure out what's true. How do things work and how things work is that meat alkalizes the colon and alkalinity in the colon is bad. You don't want excessive alkalinity in the colon. It's a cancer promoter.

[00:35:41] That's how things actually work.

[00:35:43] Carl Lanore: [00:35:43] So here's, here's an interesting side note. Um, I did a lot of reading over the past five or six years into GERD and silent GERD. And an interesting phenomenon and people that suffer from chronic GERD is that their teeth [00:36:00] were faster because of the hyper acidic environment, the chime, but the people have silent GERD.

[00:36:07] They have this small amount of acid seeping out of the gut and they get this lemony taste in their mouth. They have less plaque buildup in their mouth. Now think about this for a second. Right? So we look at the mouth as a. As the Canary in the mind for overall health and the body. If you get a lot of plaque behind your teeth, you're probably getting plaque in your arteries, but this is an argument for the mouth to be slightly acidic, not more alkaline.

[00:36:35] And Andy and I started thinking about it. I thought, I wonder if all this nonsense we've heard for decades about acid, uh, leading to cavities is actually wrong because if the, if the microbes can't live in the mouth, That eat your teeth, that cause cavities, then you won't have cavities. I would love to find out if people who suffer from [00:37:00] silent GERD find that when they go to the dentist that they're there, the gums are great.

[00:37:05] I have a feeling that a slightly acidic mouth is probably more important than trying to achieve total body alkalinity. Just it's just a guess. Just a guess.

[00:37:14] Joel Greene: [00:37:14] It's interesting. I haven't studied it so I wouldn't be able to comment, but, um, it wouldn't surprise me, you know, so many things. So many things that we talk about are always counterintuitive.

[00:37:23] So you think, you think one thing you think I'll go in and he's good until you look at it in the call and then you see these cancer 40 Adex and you see carboxylated apples and all this stuff Rockaway to carbonyls and, uh, and that's the exact opposite of what you thought. So it wouldn't surprise me in the leaf Lees.

[00:37:38] Carl Lanore: [00:37:38] So filtration. So Jeff, I'm going to go right to this real quick. He's asked about filtration systems because of the whole alkalinity. A Springwater generally has an alkalinity of between 7.6 and like 9.5, depending on the region of the world. So, but it's, this is, this Springwater is [00:38:00] that way, not because of the alkalinity it's because go rushing through rocks for thousands and millions of years, it picks up.

[00:38:09] Uh, minerals and these minerals are good for us, not because they're going to alkalize our body, but because if you don't have minerals. So, so the monic process is things move from a, a higher gradient to a lower gradient naturally. And if your water is empty and has no minerals, as it passes through your body, it'll take them from your body.

[00:38:31] So if you have water has minerals. It just spares the minerals in your body already. And it's the way we evolve. We evolve drinking water with minerals in them. Now is it because of alkalinity, abs f-ed lutely, not as not to do without alcohol you guys. I said a second ago is the second new drink. That $4 a gallon alkaline water it's acidic because if you just poured it into battery acid, And it doesn't stay separate.

[00:38:56] It's not like the water goes okay. We're structured. Molecules will [00:39:00] stay together. No, it's an acid. Now it's going to pick up some of the acid and the pH is going to become the mean of the stomach and the water. As far as filtration goes, if you add minerals back into the water, reverse osmosis is the King.

[00:39:15] Cause it gets everything out. It gets everything out that molecular sieve approach. Of going through that membrane even removes pharmaceuticals, but you have to put minerals back into it. That's the only thing I would say.

[00:39:28] Joel Greene: [00:39:28] What do you think? Yeah, that's such a fascinating area. Uh that's to me, um, water with minerals is one of those bang for the buck.

[00:39:37] Um, things that you can do. Like I use, um, I use, uh, I use mineral water, like highly mineralized before workouts. And it's like the best pre-workout ever. You get these huge pumps. If you've ever talked to anybody that like, um, has access to like a super pure source of water running in a stream where the water's running and you just go and drink that water.

[00:39:58] It's like caffeine. [00:40:00] You get this instant, like switched on kind of feeling, right? Yeah. And that, that switched on feeling has to do with mineral. So minerals function as electrochemical conductors, and we're, we're generally missing these things. So

[00:40:13] Carl Lanore: [00:40:13] in fact, in fact, I would argue that. If you don't pay attention to your mineral intake and you're using anabolic steroids, you will not see the strength gains that you were looking for.

[00:40:22] If you just look at trend Balone for a second, probably the most powerful androgen out there that that literally builds strength in weeks. It modifies the calcium channel. It turns the calcium channel up big time. And that increases contractile force. It's not because of the androgen receptor it's because anabolic, steroids and sex hormones in general.

[00:40:45] They mediate and modulator amino acid pools, and they regulate these channels. Magnesium channel relaxes, the muscle calcium channel pulls, pulls the  flexes the fibers. When you have something that acts [00:41:00] on those, you see strength gains. If you're not paying attention to your minerals. Now, even without anabolic steroids, I can tell you you're not as strong as you can be.

[00:41:08] Joel Greene: [00:41:08] Yeah, there were these minerals that I turned on on to that were, uh, that were created. We were just, we were having just to talk one day about like, uh, Ron Montana, for those of you watching with quest instruction. And we were, we were just having to talk about like stuff that actually works. And I was like, okay, you want something that really works?

[00:41:25] Take keylated minerals at that time and watch what happens. And they're cheap, like five bucks, you can get him. Um, and sure enough, he was like, yeah, I'm like, you'll wake up with a pump,

[00:41:35] Carl Lanore: [00:41:35] pump your fluid to put, because it adjusts that gradient that pulls fluid into the muscles and minerals,

[00:41:42] Joel Greene: [00:41:42] probably the most

[00:41:44] Carl Lanore: [00:41:44] underestimated and even minerals.

[00:41:45] They're doing wrong now because, because what they're doing with minerals because of kedo flu, Oh, you need more salt. It's like saying the orchestras just needs tubas. Let's just have tubers. Let's get rid of the [00:42:00] world with the wind. What are they? A Winwood's let's get rid of the strings. Let's just have tubers.

[00:42:05] Everybody focuses on one mineral. Oh, magnesium advocacy. Take tons of magnet. It's stupid. You need them all. You need chloride. You need potassium. You need them all. And, and focusing on one and sacrificing others is a big mistake. Let's talk real quick about meat fermenting and the colon for a second.

[00:42:27] Joel Greene: [00:42:27] Yeah.

[00:42:27] The thing to understand about meat is that it ferments just like fiber, uh, like, like fiber. That's a big point that I made in the book, fiber ferments. That's where you get a lot of the benefits from it. It's also where you get the symptomology. So you have to kind of, you know, ease into, ease into fiber.

[00:42:44] Uh, the meat from it. And it's easy to prove, like, if you want to prove meat for men, it's just leave it out overnight and then eat it and watch what happens. Yeah. Okay. That's easy. You can see, can prove it. So the problem is the types of bacteria that ferment means that's, that's an issue. So you can make, uh, you can make the short chain [00:43:00] fatty acids from meat, but the proportions that you're going to get, uh, are going to be, they're very different from fiber.

[00:43:04] You're going to get different ratios of, and a basket of uterus. And what you're going to find that when meat ferments in the gut, a certain types of bacteria, like fusil bacteria love to ferment me and the gut. And so the fermentation of me in the gut, uh, is, is linked to cancer causing compounds because.

[00:43:23] Cancer causing bacteria, like deferment me now it's offset quite easily just by adding a little bit of fiber into the equation. And the fiber will ferment the meat doesn't ferment. So you basically create a competition for resources and you just get a little edge to the fibrous bacteria. And then while you don't have the issue, so balanced once again plays out there.

[00:43:43] But, uh, the thing to understand about meat is that it ferments in the gut and the fermentation of meat can produce, um, cancer promoting condom.

[00:43:51] Carl Lanore: [00:43:51] Yeah, and that that's a really important, so what I want to do is we're going to take our last commercial break. When we come back, we're going to cover the most important parts of this discussion.

[00:43:59] If you [00:44:00] suspect that meat is at the root of some of your autoimmunity, what can you do? We'll also talk about how to not get caught in this log jam in the first place. Uh, so we're going to be discussing, uh, diet and cell turnover. In the meantime, you can go to. Joel's website, which is Veep, VEP, nutrition, and you can buy the new book, uh, which, you know, this, this book is like the foundational book for everything that you could think of because when we come, no matter what it is, whether it's recovery from workouts, whether it's avoiding diseases, whether it's not, not folding under the weight of a disease.

[00:44:42] We come to the immune system. When we talk about the immune system, we talk about the gut. When we talk about the immune system, we're talking about inflammation, everybody says, Oh, inflammation is the root of every disease. Then why are you not paying attention to your gut and your immune system? Because inflammation is the army of the immune system.

[00:45:00] [00:45:00] So the, the, this is more important, even for those of you who train and think, well, I'm not interested in this stuff. I'm just interested in building muscle. We already know that if your immune system is jacked up and inflammation is high, you're not going to see the muscle recovery that you should because.

[00:45:15] That there's a trough and there's a peak. And when the trough and the peak start getting too close together, you don't see the muscle gains that you're looking for. So pay attention to the immune system. Of course it rewards everything that we're talking about. Stay tuned. We'll be right back. This is the superhuman channel where we use oxygen for the power of good,

[00:45:38] welcome back. So now let's talk about what to do. Because that's really where Joel excelled over all these other quote unquote gurus out there. The first thing we should address is cell turnover, right? Since we're saying that these glycoproteins incorporate, they incorporate themselves into the cell membrane, then reducing the overall [00:46:00] load requires cell membrane toner, right?

[00:46:04] Joel Greene: [00:46:04] Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, the good news is you're not looking at, um, something that's not fixable, uh, as you begin to incorporate, uh, excess, um, liquor, and to make it quicker on your medic acid, into your cell membranes and you begin to get true much of it into the cell membranes. Well, it'd be just simply begin to balance the diet out a little bit and sort of bring down.

[00:46:29] As cells turnover, the math bring down the population of cells that are accessibly representing this antigen and allow cells that are not overexpressing it to sort of begin to take hold again.

[00:46:43] Carl Lanore: [00:46:43] So we know that cell turnover varies by the type of tissue from anywhere from six days to six months, bone takes the longest to turnover.

[00:46:50] Do these glycoproteins find their way into bone cells as well, osteoclasts or anything like that?

[00:46:57] Joel Greene: [00:46:57] That's a good one specific answer to that. I'll have [00:47:00] to repeat that.

[00:47:00] Carl Lanore: [00:47:00] Yeah. Just be curious. Yeah. Cause there's a lot of strange bone diseases out there. I wonder if these little bastards of the. Culprits behind it.

[00:47:08] So, so what, so what, so what the diet, so, I mean, I eat up, I eat way too much beef. I probably eat two pounds of beef on average a day right now. And I have been for a while because I keep thinking my auto immunity will go away if I just eat more and more beef. So maybe just, maybe I'm one of these people.

[00:47:26] So what do I do? How do I change my diet?

[00:47:30] Joel Greene: [00:47:30] There's,

[00:47:31] Carl Lanore: [00:47:31] there's two aspects of what

[00:47:32] Joel Greene: [00:47:32] you just talked about. Um, I'll hit on both briefly. One is the essential reality of meat, why it's essential, but the other is balancing out the mechanism specific problems presented by me. So long story short, the answer is add a little bit more balanced into your diet, but specifically there's different ways that you'd want to look at this.

[00:47:56] So one idea is that it's a really good idea to add a little bit of [00:48:00] fiber when you have me. Um, this is going to. Do two things. Number one, it's going to lower the pH of the colon very slightly just by adding a little bit of fiber. And that's good that helps prevent these carboxylated alcohols and DNA addicts and be informed.

[00:48:16] And the other is it shifts the focus of fermentation in the gut. It shifts it away from so much the fermentation of meat. It kind of acts like detergent. So, so that's an idea and you don't have to eat like, you know, the four food groups, so you don't have to eat like a balanced diet, every meal. That's not, certainly not what I'm saying.

[00:48:32] You can, you can definitely do, uh, extreme pulses of things. If you want to do, you know, periods where you're just doing a pure carnivore diet or a pure keto diet, you know, or even just a pure plant diet, you can do those things. The number one takeaway I would give you is don't sustain those things for long, long periods, ad infinitum with only one thing in the diet, that in my opinion would be probably the worst thing you can do.

[00:48:54] I think you're going to be looking at a very specific auto immune reaction. If you do that

[00:48:58] Carl Lanore: [00:48:58] to you, one. [00:49:00] I mean, we, Ron Penna study is Ron's show Ron and I have debated about, you know, what's the one food you could eat always and survive and thrive and you know, red meat, you know, beef and then egg. And, but, but while you can do that and survive and thrive, you, you, you will end up with some sort of nutrient deficiencies.

[00:49:23] I would imagine, no matter what, if you just, if the ancient had a monolithic diet, here's all I'm going to, I'm just going to eat beef every day from now on.

[00:49:30] Joel Greene: [00:49:30] Right. Yeah. Well, you're going to get your, you're going to be looking. First of all, I would argue that, uh, there are different types of grains that would also work in that model that he's talking about.

[00:49:39] Um, you know, they're, they're, they're sort of like staple grains that you could probably make the same argument with. I, in fact, you could probably point to cultures that have done nothing but that, um, maybe they haven't experienced like optimal health or peak human health, but they've certainly survived.

[00:49:53] So I would, I would counter that. But the other thing is that. All of the issues that we were talking about [00:50:00] here, come to the forefront specifically, um, too much of any one thing, and you're going to start to see auto immune issues. That's the first thing. And then in terms of total nutrient array and what it is you need, here's an easy way to understand it.

[00:50:12] Now, let me just bring it back to the gut because it gets where immunity begins, the upper half of the gut. So you're talking to the intestines, the upper half of the gut needs aminos, which means. Animals, which means me. That's the primary fuel source. It's also the primary mechanistic substrate for many of the immune processes.

[00:50:32] The gut needs the lower half of the gut. The colon needs plants. So plants are the primary mechanistic driver. Uh, the lower half of the cut of the gut, the colon and the cells there, they need butyrate and function. Fiber serves in the central process. So if you just look at how the gut works, you can make a very good case.

[00:50:51] The top half of the gut needs meat. The bottom half of the gut needs plants.

[00:50:57] Carl Lanore: [00:50:57] So which type of fiber do you recommend? [00:51:00] Suzanne Buchanan wants to know.

[00:51:03] Joel Greene: [00:51:03] Well, That's a whole shelf, Suzanne, that's a whole shelf. Uh, there are the case I make in my book is if I was going to stack rank fiber, I would look at the type of bacteria that feeds.

[00:51:19] So the first thing I would go to is if you look at, if you look at how immunity began in the gut, like when, when you first gained immunity and ask, well, what did I need? What was it that I needed back then? Okay. You're going to come up with a couple of plants, a couple of animals that serve that serve in the picture.

[00:51:38] You're going to see me and, or excuse me, you're going to see milk and very much the, um, the, the, the, uh, glycans that are in milk and the specific sugars that are in milk begin immunity in the gut. So you need those, but then in terms of the types of fiber, um, I make the case in the book that Apple pectin, Apple skins are very complimentary.

[00:52:00] [00:52:00] And there's a very good reason. So when you look at Apple pectin, what it does, it's got two, two very broad actions that are really worth looking at one is that it has very specific types of phenols in it. And these are, these are very long chain phenols, super long chain. They're about 30,000 daltons whereas most females have very small, small size.

[00:52:24] They're about a hundred females. So the very long chains that are present in the phenol is an Apple. Basically they keep it from being digested in the skins. And what happens is they park it in the gut in specific compartments. And because that they make eight times, eight times the Akkermansia by fermentation of those long chain polymers from virtually any other known foods.

[00:52:44] So that's one aspect, um, where Apple skins sort of, kind of compliment these animal products very well. Um, the other is that they have very specific functions on the gut junction proteins. So there are gut junky proteins, like claudins [00:53:00] that Apple sands work directly on. And they, they basically get rid of things like lipopolysaccharide and they help to get CLF.

[00:53:05] So they're very complimentary. So there's a mix of different types of phenol that you want to look at that comes from fruit. And then there's a mix of different types of fibers that you want to look at that come from starches that don't digest very well. And key word is they don't digest very well. So when you're taking in starches that don't digest well resistant starches, you have to start very, very small.

[00:53:26] The other key is if you have existing gut issues on top of that, if you have existing gut issues, like you've got colitis, or you've got, you know, Crohn's disease, or you have some type of issue, you're not going to be able to start with fiber. And this is where meat really shines. And you've always, you've heard the phrase meat Kiehl's, what's very true because amino acids in meat.

[00:53:44] Are essential, essential for the gut mucous layer. And they're essential for a number of operations. A good example is tryptofan, um, you need tryptophan in the gut, uh, to catalyze the production of, uh, five HTP to make serotonin. [00:54:00] And it also has a function in the gut of helping to rebuild the gut mucous layer.

[00:54:04] Uh, when you look at other types of aminos, they do very specific things that rebuild the gut layer. So aminos are essential, particularly are essential for the upper gut and the intestines. And so when you combine aminos and you combine them with very specific types of fiber, you're really feeding the entire digestive tract.

[00:54:18] Carl Lanore: [00:54:18] And in fact, if you've studied human breast milk, um, the oligosaccharides in human breast milk there to feed the fiber, not the baby. Yes. Yeah. I mean, it's fascinating. Like, Oh my God, like, this is like, , there's a term called viatical. For the journey. So, so the glyco, some of the, some of the sugar and breast milk is, is the article for fiber.

[00:54:41] It's designed to keep the fiber alive and thriving. And so, anyway, um, yeah, so, uh, one more question here, and then we're gonna, uh, we're gonna wrap up. So this is fascinating. Jeff Clifton says, could you just sprinkle organic inulin over a steak and get your fiber? Because it [00:55:00] wouldn't really change the taste that much, but isn't inulin the one that.

[00:55:04] Through hydrolysis converts to fructose in the gut.

[00:55:08] Joel Greene: [00:55:08] Well, there's different types of annular rings, uh, and they, and they work and they work in different ways. Um, I wouldn't, I wouldn't worry about the production of fructose and  so much as it's not really a concern,

[00:55:22] Carl Lanore: [00:55:22] it's a good source, right? It's a good source of fiber.

[00:55:25] Joel Greene: [00:55:25] Yes. And annual ins do very specific things. And they're generally speaking. They're very, they're very, they're very, um, insulin friendly. They're very good on, um, metabolic actions and processes that need to take place. And they got you find people that take ambulance, um, seem to do fairly well, you know, in terms of Stanley and stuff.

[00:55:41] Carl Lanore: [00:55:41] So what, what, what would a recovering meta holic do? Like I, okay. So I want to, I want to give this a try. I want to start to change my diet slightly slowly, you know, Um, what is that? A small, small doses and slow and small steps. So what would I do to [00:56:00] do, do I cut one meat meal out a day? Do I just start? I already, I'm already reducing my meat consumption because I'm moving to a 30 gram of protein per meal plan very shortly.

[00:56:14] And so I, you know, right now I just, I'm a reckless either. I mean, I'll buy a pound, a pound, the meat and I'll just eat it. And like, that's it. I'll leave it. Eat another pound of meat two hours later. How do I wean myself out? What do I start to incorporate in? And how do I wean some things out?

[00:56:30] Joel Greene: [00:56:30] Wow. You hit on an, you hit on three shows,

[00:56:34] Carl Lanore: [00:56:34] but we need to do more shows.

[00:56:35] That's what this means. Yeah.

[00:56:37] Joel Greene: [00:56:37] Okay. Uh, let me throw out one thing that that is no one's ever talked about and it's super, super important. It is the age specific effect of excessive protein. Um, and the effect of excessive protein at different ages. Okay. And so you have to factor this into the equation. So there's really good research that looks at excessive protein intake between the ages of 50 to about 65.

[00:56:59] And [00:57:00] that is a major cancer promoter. Then after age 65, excessive protein intake correlates to long life. So you have this inverse effect, you have this thing going on, where in the fifties you want to cut protein and take down kind of what you're doing right now. But then after 65 sarcopenia kicks in and all these other things kick in where the body is not growing as much.

[00:57:20] And so it's just a protein really promotes long lifespan. And

[00:57:23] Carl Lanore: [00:57:23] I wonder, but I wonder if they take. Training and people who train like athletes into the fold when they do that sort of work. Cause I almost, sometimes I think that when you eat a lot of protein, but you're not creating the signals to, for the protein synthetic response, I kind of feel like, you know, that protein maybe gets bored and starts finding things to do that.

[00:57:45] You don't want it to do so to speak.

[00:57:51] Joel Greene: [00:57:51] It'd be, it would be interesting. There, there, there are aspects. Let's talk about the over six, the over 65 component. I don't, I don't think there's any, any [00:58:00] that makes a ton of sense to me that getting more protein intake over 65 would be a huge positive to lifespan. So the only question is really excessive protein intake between 50 to 65.

[00:58:11] Um, and one of the things that we have to look at is you have to come back to the gut and the function. Uh, within the colon. So a lot of your digestion's taking place within the colon and you see colon cancer onset and you see all these related factors that, um, probably most of them may not impinge on training too much.

[00:58:27] They're more sort of, um, metabolic and, um, biochemical processes that relate to what's going on in the gut and the colon. And I think that's where the risk is. So. Well, it's, you know, it's, it's not a completely big subject. I think there's a lot of research that can still be done on it, but there is, there is some sense to it.

[00:58:45] So I think it's, it's putting a pin in thinking about anyways, that being said,

[00:58:52] Carl Lanore: [00:58:52] okay, so, so, uh, the cell turnover is our savior because we can turn over cells and we can get rid of some of these glycoproteins, [00:59:00] the diet should be balanced. And when we talk about balanced, I would not go with the RDA. Or the USDA is idea of a balanced.

[00:59:06] I will tell you about eating a variety of different foods that are not already known insults to your body. Um, if you don't want this to happen in the first place, I guess it's to remain, uh, on a, on a diet that comes from a variety of different things that don't insult your body, that, you know, don't like grains.

[00:59:22] Don't a lot of people don't do well grains. I don't do well with grains. I've cut them out. Um, so this, this comes back to. Everything in moderation, because I've heard that everything in moderation is a bad idea.

[00:59:35] Joel Greene: [00:59:35] Well, let, let me let let's, let's forget what we know. And just for a second, put on some different lenses to think about all this stuff.

[00:59:44] So the first thing to think about is transitions in the diet and let's draw a really broad analogy that, um, think of it this way. Like you're a powerlifter and you decide to take up marathon running. Okay. Should you run a marathon on the first day? Hm, probably a horrible idea. Right? [01:00:00] Should you, should you run a mile the first day?

[01:00:02] No,

[01:00:02] Carl Lanore: [01:00:02] probably not. Probably just start walking actually.

[01:00:05] Joel Greene: [01:00:05] Why don't you start walking? Okay. So let's take that analogy and apply it to transitions in the diet. So if, if single pulses of food in the diet can create issues, when done to the extreme and changes in the diet can also produce issues when done to the extreme.

[01:00:21] But we would think the extreme seems normal to us. But you got to understand that if you've been eating like an all meat diet and you decide to start adding in plants, you would like that powerlifter who's shifting into a marathon. So rather than even, don't even run a mile on the first day, just, just take a walk around the block and then you start building up from there.

[01:00:39] That same analogy is true if shifts in the diet. So when you hear things like all things in moderation and balance, and you try to do that, you'll hear stories like, well, I tried that and then, you know, brains, brains don't agree with that. I didn't like them. But I would submit that it's not it's because the mechanisms in the gut have been conditioned for quote, unquote powerlifting and eating meat.

[01:00:58] And you went and tried to run a marathon [01:01:00] if you back it off. So what we've seen a lot in, in the nutrition health community. Are these transitions where effectively people are just jumping in whole hog, it's something new and the body's not trained to do it. Uh, I talked about this in the book. I talked about the idea of carb training and that you can actually train carbs in the body, but it's just like that powerlifter, who's becoming a marathon runner.

[01:01:20] You've got to start very, very small so that the body can adapt to that new

[01:01:24] Carl Lanore: [01:01:24] thing. We see this, anybody who owns a dog knows that you change the dog's food one day and he craps all over the house. And that's when, after he eats the food for a week or two, he stops, right? So that the body wasn't prepared for, you said something down the tube that the body wasn't prepared for it and said, Oh, I'm going to get rid of this.

[01:01:42] Joel Greene: [01:01:42] You know, that's the best analogy I've ever heard. I'm going to steal that. If you don't mind. You changed it and the dog is just going to crap. So it getting back to like, you know, what makes sense to do, we have to begin to understand that the diet is not this, uh, [01:02:00] fixed proposition that we think is because it requires mechanisms to process it.

[01:02:05] And the body has to build those mechanisms up. It has to tear them down. So as we're moving towards more variety in the diet, We have to start slowly. And it doesn't mean that we have to return to the four food groups. We can have extremes. I have extremes, I'll have periods where, you know, I'll do an extreme of maybe fats.

[01:02:22] I'll do a, I'm just coming off a period of meat. But really, I think the key ultimately is really listening to your body because your body will always tell you, it'll always give you clues. And right now my body is just craving, starting to create more salad and starting to crave other things. Cause I've been eating a lot of meat lately.

[01:02:36] And your body will tell you what

[01:02:38] Carl Lanore: [01:02:38] to shift off. If you pay attention, it will Elisa, Elisa Lee eats a very, very broad diet, and she has this thing like, Oh, I'll say to her, you want to have a protein ball? She'll say I already had one today. I'm like, so, you know, I have another one. No, she goes, now I had one today and you know, she's aging so, well, um, last night she got three hours of deep sleep.

[01:03:00] [01:03:00] I'm so jealous. I'm so jealous. Um, but she's, she's one of these people that she's just not an extremist in any area, you know? And so it comes back to this sensibles, you know, not, not, I think, I think the problem is that we've learned as humans, that zealotry leads to success. Like, if you're just you just grind and focus and you build a great business.

[01:03:24] So you just grind and focus and you build a great family, but diet doesn't work that way. It just doesn't like grinding and focusing your diet ends up not working out. And I think we're learning that now, you know, and it's something you said earlier that made me something I've been thinking about. We hearkened back to evolution and go, well, we didn't this back then.

[01:03:47] That doesn't mean it actually. Made us live longer. I mean, just because we did it back then, doesn't mean it contributed, you know, this whole idea of, of, Oh, everything about evolution was right. And everything we're learning [01:04:00] now is wrong. It's just, we have to pick what works from each of these that is ultimately the hybrid approach forward from where we are.

[01:04:08] So these people who say, Oh, well, all we ate was meat, big effing deal. That doesn't mean that we live longer back then. If anything, we didn't live longer. Maybe that was one of the contributors to why we didn't live longer. You know, it's, it's, it's not this, uh Oh, because it was back then. It was right.

[01:04:24] Joel Greene: [01:04:24] Yeah.

[01:04:24] I would add to that, that, um, I would add to that, that I think it's time to shift into, um, machine based forensics. So instead of relying on narratives to tell us what to do, we need to look at the machinery and go, well, what does this need? Like, like if you're looking at a, if you're looking at a, uh, electric engine, And you're trying to give a gasoline.

[01:04:45] It's probably not going to work very well, you know, cause mechanistically it needs power input and, and the same is true in reverse. So as you begin to break down, what's true about the body mechanistically. And we look at like, well, the, the, the cells that line, the Intero sites, the upper [01:05:00] part of the gut and those specific types of cells, uh, what do they mechanistically need?

[01:05:05] And then you begin to look at the V line. And we look at the VLI and then there's well, lo and behold, there's not just the V line. There's other groups of cells like specifically MSLs and M cells really rely a lot on aminos in order to produce the proper ratio of different sort of, um, things that they need to drive immunity in the gut.

[01:05:25] And then you begin to look at the call and you go, well, what's the calling need when you're going to go? Oh, no, the, the, the colonocytes really need fiber. That's kind of where you get the ideal mix. So if, if you begin to break things down, mechanistically the mechanisms will tell us what to do far better than narratives.

[01:05:38] Well, because the narratives, you can't validate that they sound good. They might be true.

[01:05:42] Carl Lanore: [01:05:42] And the narratives typically are founded in bias. Or, or, uh, what's that, uh, by, uh, when you, when you want something to work out the way you want it to where confirmational bias or a product being sold, I know it is bias.

[01:05:55] That's the problem, finding the truth, amidst all the [01:06:00] bias driven nonsense is become even harder. Thanks to the internet now, because now, today you've got a million different opinions coming at you today. How do you sort through them? You know,

[01:06:09] Joel Greene: [01:06:09] Yeah, I think also that's where immunology and, and sort of immune centric focus really changes things because once you realize that immunity and the immune mechanisms are central to the mechan mechanistic, working of everything, everything, everything you look, I mentioned MSLs, you look at them.

[01:06:25] Why is that important? Because essentially what M cells do is they will go into the lumen and the gut they'll grab an antigen. They'll pull it into the gut. They'll give it to dendritic cells. They'll they'll shield it within a dendritic cell. The dendritic cell will bake that antigen up. It'll take it over to a T cell, present it to a T cell, and then the T cell will push it back out.

[01:06:48] Uh, and then you're going to get, um, secretory IGA in the gut from that. And in order to make that happen, you need glutamine. Need amino acids. So amino acids in that mechanistic chain make that work, the amino acids [01:07:00] cake, the bacteria in the gut, and they push them into the gut mucous layer out of the lumen.

[01:07:05] And so when that happens, the antigen sensing works a hell of a lot better. And so, again, mechanistically speaking, if we just break this thing down with Gaga, we got to have blooming where's the best source of glutamine me. Okay. So we kinda need me, but then you move down the colon track and move into.

[01:07:21] Moving to the colon. Then you begin to look at the Intero sites there to go, well, what do they need? And they, it right where what's the best source of that. And then you begin to work the mechanisms out and, you know, we can't have too much meat here because it's going to escalate the colon. What flips that let's at this fiber.

[01:07:33] So getting back to how things actually work by breaking the mechanisms down, that's the future, because we've been in this sort of like wishy washy kind of narrative stuff. And a lot of people have really benefited from that. And it's just based on complete BS. Most of it.

[01:07:46] Carl Lanore: [01:07:46] Yeah. This has been a great discussion and obviously.

[01:07:49] Seeds have been planted for at least 11 other interviews so far. So the book is called immunity code. You can find it at Veep, nutrition.com. There's also some [01:08:00] free information there. There's some tidbits of audio tracks that Joel has put together to kind of prime you and give you some information to walk away with today.

[01:08:10] Uh, you should check out Veep, nutrition, VEP, nutrition.com, and definitely get the book, uh, because what Joel, you know, I'm listening to Joel. And I'm thinking about dr. Scott Connolly, back in the day, dr. Scott Connolly brought so much wonderful information to physical culture, bodybuilding and nutrition.

[01:08:29] And he was fascinating because he understood these complex ideas and he was able to serve them up in ways that people weren't afraid that they wouldn't get it. And Joel, I feel like you're the, you're the next generation Scott Connolly. I gotta be honest. I'm just, just putting, I don't know if you think that's a compliment or not, but

[01:08:46] Joel Greene: [01:08:46] yeah, no, that's interesting.

[01:08:48] My Scott story is in 1992, he had a gym in Costa Mesa, the Mexican, the metrics gym, and he was working the front desk like dr. Scott at the front desk. And yeah, [01:09:00] I was, I was kind of like, uh, you know, I w I was just trying to learn as much as I could in those.

[01:09:08] Carl Lanore: [01:09:08] Are you still there? Joel, are you literally dropped out when you said I was trying to learn as much as I could in those days. And then you, you froze, so pick it up from I'm sorry. Sorry.

[01:09:18] Joel Greene: [01:09:18] Yeah. I was trying to learn as much as I could in those days. And dr. Scott was working the front desk. And I made the mistake of asking him about glutamine and that's it.

[01:09:28] It was like,

[01:09:29] Carl Lanore: [01:09:29] yeah, bring your cot pod, stay here tonight. Yeah.

[01:09:32] Joel Greene: [01:09:32] He went into this bile Babel thing about, you know, uh, 50 conjugate adjectives later. And I was kind of like, Okay. Yeah. Yeah,

[01:09:44] Carl Lanore: [01:09:44] no. I mean, but he was a, well, he was a wealth of knowledge. He taught so many people, so many great things and you gotta gotta get the book immunity code it's at Veep, nutrition.com.

[01:09:54] That's it for today. And think about the diet. Think about your diet. Think about what you're eating and think about playing around with [01:10:00] it a little bit in baby steps and see what the outcome is. Don't believe that all meat. All the time is the way to go because that's currently the new narrative right now.

[01:10:11] And just like every other nutritional narrative before it misses the boat, it misses the boat. All right, Joel. Thanks for being here today, brother. Thank you. Thank you. And we'll see you tomorrow. Tomorrow will be the blueprint power hour with coach Rob records. Don't miss that and please share the show.

[01:10:27] Please share the show. Please share the show. [01:11:00]