[00:00:00] Carl Lanore: [00:00:00] well, we're going to flip the script on you today. Seriously. You're going to hear a discussion that you're not going to hear it anywhere else. Maybe five or six months from now, maybe a year from now, this type of dialogue that we're going to have today about the mass squaring and CO2, uh, we'll get out. I doubt that it will small, small groups of intelligent people will pass this on, but the, uh, the throngs of sheeple out there won't get this at all.

[00:00:27] Especially not from shows like dr. Oz or any place like that. You know, you do this 20 times a minute at rest 28,000 times plus a day. And you never think about it, but we've been thinking about it a lot since COVID-19 and everybody's wearing masks. We're thinking about our breathing for the first time.

[00:00:46] Most people never think about it and what's on everybody's mind right now is CO2. And we're going to discuss whether or not wearing a mask is really harmful. Well, is it possible? Is it possible [00:01:00] that it's actually doing something good for you? We're going to get to the bottom of that with Andrews Olson, who is an expert in breathing.

[00:01:06] I met him at one of the quest, uh, think tanks. The guy is brilliant. I'll tell you a funny story about him. I was on a phone, I'll wait for him to be on the air and he could tell exactly what was going on just by watching my breathing. It was fascinating. No one else in the room knew, but, and just came over to me after the phone call and said, this, this, this, and that.

[00:01:26] Right. And I said, yeah, He goes, yeah, I was watching you breathe before we do that. We have to thank our title sponsor and that is legendary foods. Legendary foods has the most amazing. Uh, snacks that you've ever had. They're tasty. Pastry is a, basically a pop tart that has been made healthier and they do that by removing all the sugar.

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[00:02:16] I mean, this stuff is amazing. It's worth your time. It's worth your money and it's worth you eating. So check that out. Of course. And now without further delay, I'm going to, uh, Turn that off and bring on my guest Andrews Olson. How are you doing

[00:02:32] Anders Olsson : [00:02:32] Andrews? I'm doing really great. Thank you.

[00:02:35] Carl Lanore: [00:02:35] And, uh, and now I met you at quest.

[00:02:38] I got to put some images in there. I met you at quest and, uh, and you were there specifically to talk about breathing and your whole mission is to get people to start thinking consciously about their breathing. So. Most people would say, but breathing is it's autonomic it's automatic. We don't have to think about it, but [00:03:00] that was true before modern times.

[00:03:02] Wasn't it?

[00:03:04] Anders Olsson : [00:03:04] Yeah, probably. And, and you, you mentioned it right when, when you were on the phone that, uh, I actually, I counted the number of bets you took, and I could see that you were a bit upset, your were a bit stressed and that's how it goes, right. Hour. Thoughts, our emotions, our physical body, they are actually reflected mirrored in our breads the way, what we think, what we feel.

[00:03:29] We can actually spot that in our breath. If we are stressed out, we will have a stress breathing. We will probably breathe higher up in the chest faster. Maybe the mouth is open. So when you start to pay attention to the breath, you can actually see that. If it is a good indicator of what's going on inside of us.

[00:03:49] Carl Lanore: [00:03:49] In fact, when you see people who are critically ill, what you see is very shallow panting almost. And I want to go on by saying that I'm not suggesting [00:04:00] that that breathing is causing their disease, but that breathing is keeping them trapped in their disease state. And I feel this very strongly. So I'm going to say something and then I'm going to hand it to you.

[00:04:09] And you tell me if I'm exaggerating. Yeah, there is nothing you can do right now sitting where you are right now that will have a more rapid effect on your physiology then thinking about and breathing deeper and slower. Is that true?

[00:04:29] Anders Olsson : [00:04:29] Yeah. I mean, I'm probably a bit biased here, but yeah, I would agree to that.

[00:04:34] Uh, although I, I avoid the word. Deep, because usually people associate the word deep with big breath, take a deep breath and we take a big breath in and a big breath is not actually optimum because when we do, we take in a lot of oxidant and we exhale a lot of CO2. So we basically with when we're breathing fast and big, we upset the oxygen carbon dioxide [00:05:00] balance.

[00:05:00] But, but otherwise I would say yes. We can basically sit here and now here and now, and go from where we are to a state of a Harmoni harmonious with just improving our breeding. And we can also take us in that direction. I'm more stressed by just altering our breath to a more stressful breathing.

[00:05:23] Carl Lanore: [00:05:23] So on that note, I want to, I want to ask this, this, this question.

[00:05:27] So theoretically, um, Breathing deeply, as you say, isn't, isn't the objective, right? It's having full. A relaxed breathing. How do you know? Where, where should you feel the breathing? Like I hear a lot of people say, well, the stomach and the United States, and probably in Europe too, everyone's fascinated with washboard abs this contributes to a rigidity in major muscles that are responsible for making you breathe.

[00:05:54] So people in the breathing higher in the chest, how do we correct that? How do we fix that? What do we do? [00:06:00] How should we be breathing? Just to start this discussion, then we're going to talk about CO2.

[00:06:05] Anders Olsson : [00:06:05] Yeah, eh, I work with this. I call it the seven good habits of breathing. Meaning that number one is good.

[00:06:12] Breeding starts in the nose. Second is breathing low using your diaphragm. The third one is breathing slow. Fourth one is breathing small fifth one is to have an erect posture. If we have a more slump posture, we will force the air higher up in the chest because the diaphragm can't work. And number six is to have a rhythmic breath.

[00:06:37] And number seven is to have a quiet breath. And with quiet. I mean, not necessarily that we should stop talking because when we talk, we actually move Aaron in and out of the lungs. But a lot of us tend to do different noises. Like every sound we make. Okay.

[00:06:56] Carl Lanore: [00:06:56] Yeah. I have, I have, I have a mute. Microphone here [00:07:00] because I do that throughout the show and I can't do it into the microphone, so I can, I mute myself, but yes.

[00:07:05] Yeah. Okay. Well,

[00:07:06] Anders Olsson : [00:07:06] so that, that's kind of, that is a sign of a breath that has room for improvement. So, so I mean, basically what I teach is not rocket science. It's basically the opposite of what a lot of people are doing. We're breathing this shallow fast on rhythmic breathing, maybe through the mouth. So it's basically just to do the opposite.

[00:07:26] And, and the idea I have is to think of, we take about thousand breaths an hour and try to improve it step by step. The number of breaths, the number of those thousand breaths that you take in accordance with these. Seven habits.

[00:07:43] Carl Lanore: [00:07:43] And how long does it take to correct your breathing? Once you do that, you start looking at the hour, you start monitoring how many breaths you're taking.

[00:07:50] I know the devices that you have that do that when someone starts this journey and says, I am going to correct my breathing, because it's going to have profound benefits [00:08:00] throughout my entire body. How long does it take to get it? Right? Well,

[00:08:05] Anders Olsson : [00:08:05] If I ask you, how long would it take to get fits? Because you, you do a lot of workouts right.

[00:08:10] Carl Lanore: [00:08:10] Months, months, right?

[00:08:12] Anders Olsson : [00:08:12] Yeah. And it also depends on where, how fit you are when you start. Right. If you're really fit, won't take that long compared to if you're very unfit. So it's the same with breathing. We can have the whole range, the whole spectrum, our breathing could be. Really really bad or it could be quite okay.

[00:08:31] So if it's quite okay, it doesn't take that long time. And also it's about the effort you put in the curiosity you have, because as you said, it's an autonomic function. We are not supposed to pay attention to it, but modern stress forces us to do that. Yeah.

[00:08:50] Carl Lanore: [00:08:50] So one of the things that I learned from both you and Ron Penna and Ron Penn is really the one who got me to start thinking about breathing years ago.

[00:08:57] And I know that you had, you had a big effect on him as well. [00:09:00] Was this idea that CO2 is misunderstood as far as blood gases go. Right? People think that CO2 is just a waste byproduct of. Utilizing oxygen. And it's, it's basically garbage that we want to get rid of and accumulating it in the body only is indicative of not being healthy.

[00:09:20] That's not true. Is it? No,

[00:09:24] Anders Olsson : [00:09:24] I'm the analogy I use is water. We know that it's good because we consist of about 70% water. So if we don't drink any water for a week, that's a big stress for a body. But if we drink 10 liters or three gallons in a day, That's stress that's too much. Right? So it's all about balance.

[00:09:42] So we, we need oxygen, but we also need carbon dioxide. So the way most of us tend to breathe is that we take in too much oxygen and exhale, too much carbon dioxide, and also the carbon dioxide, which is produced in our body. [00:10:00] As in, in the process where oxygen and the nutrients we eat are converting into energy in the mitochondria.

[00:10:10] We then produce ATP. We produce water and heat and carbon dioxide. And when we are inactive, we produce less CO2. So if we are inactive and also over breathe, then we really lower the you two levels in the body. So, so that, that is a challenge for many people in today's society. We have an inactive lifestyle and we are rapid breathing out.

[00:10:38] Yeah.

[00:10:39] Carl Lanore: [00:10:39] And it may not be rapid. It just may be shallow. If there's not a high exchange, it's not a wire screen.

[00:10:46] Anders Olsson : [00:10:46] It's really, really hard to spot still to this day. I've been doing this now for 10 years and I have the, a habit of counting the number of breaths on people. It's really, really hard to [00:11:00] spot poor breathing.

[00:11:02] Still, even though I pay so much attention to it,

[00:11:05] Carl Lanore: [00:11:05] right? Because you can't add, you can't estimate really, if you're looking at the rib cage moving and you're trying to estimate the volume of air exchange that's going on, and that's really hard. A lot of people hide it. Well, they're very, very shallow breathers, but they may be move with their breathing.

[00:11:18] So you think they're taking a big breath? I get it. You know, I want, I want to put this up here to set the stage. So. About, we're going to talk about co two and we're going to talk about your COVID-19 mass, that you're so freaked out and I'm not you and there's, but people are so freaked out about wearing.

[00:11:32] So my good friend, Derek Trombetta, who used to be a firefighter, said this when we were altogether in California, he said, uh, having CO2 is a sign of viable life and even a way to determine when to end stop life saving measures. So. Uh, very progressive, uh, people on the frontline that are responsible for reviving people, keeping them from dying.

[00:11:55] They don't just monitor your blood docs. In fact, your CO2 [00:12:00] levels may be more indicative of whether they're wasting their time pumping on your chest or not. If you're a CEO, two levels disappear. Even if your oxygen levels are high, you're most likely dead.

[00:12:12] Anders Olsson : [00:12:12] Yes. Now

[00:12:13] Carl Lanore: [00:12:13] that that's, that that should shock people because everybody thinks that when your oxygen levels are high and your seal two levels have diminished, maybe almost not existed.

[00:12:24] That's the ideal thing. No, you're dead. If you're not making CO2, you've stopped, your body has stopped processing oxygen.

[00:12:33] Anders Olsson : [00:12:33] Yes. Very true. And actually the way I look at it, I am. Look at  paving the way for oxygen. It's all life forms require CO2. It's CO2 is carbon dioxide, right? We are carbon based animals and not all life forms need oxygen, but all life forms need a carbon [00:13:00] dioxide when life or else on the planet, there was no oxygen in the atmosphere.

[00:13:04] According to research. So, eh, it is actually carbon dioxide that controls wading that triggers the inhale. It's not, when we feel the air hungry, it's not lack of oxygen. It's the buildup of CO2 that the, the brain center is triggered saying, Oh, we have too much CO2 in the body. So it sends a signal to the phrenic nerve.

[00:13:25] The diaphragm goes down and we inhale. And then on the following exhale, we exhale. This you too. So we then lowered the levels and then we start a new breeding cycle.

[00:13:35] Carl Lanore: [00:13:35] So I want to, I want to now introduce a concept that everybody knows about, and I want to talk about why. It's breathing has such a profound effect.

[00:13:44] We all hear stories about heart rate variability. You should train and get your HRV, monitor your HRV. When your heart rate is doing this, then that's when you're healthy. The single thing that has the greatest effect on heart rate variability is your breathing. [00:14:00] In fact, if you don't believe me, take a step, the scope, put it to your chest.

[00:14:05] Breathe normal. Listen to your heart rate. Now breathe in. Hold it for a second and breathe out. You'll hear your heart. Skip it'll go. Boom, boom, boom. And when you get it, breathe in and go, boom, boom, nothing affects heart rate variability like breathing. Now think about this. We talk about heart rate variability as the, as the acid test for your level of fitness.

[00:14:28] Well, the thing that will have the most profound effect on your heart rate, variability changing for the Bennett to the good side is controlling your breathing. Is that, is that a misstatement? Am I lying?

[00:14:40] Anders Olsson : [00:14:40] No, I totally agree with you. I measured a HRV quite a lot myself and started it quite a bit and I totally agree.

[00:14:49] Carl Lanore: [00:14:49] Okay. And so then another thing that's important to understand about CO2 is that it enables red blood cells to deliver more oxygen. This is also [00:15:00] counter-intuitive right. Oh, we have good red blood cells in there, oxygenated and they're traveling around the body. That means tissue is getting oxygen from them.

[00:15:06] No, CO2 is the reason that they go, we need more oxygen in this tissue over here or this tissue over here. So CO2 is really important. Really important for oxygen to do its job, right?

[00:15:20] Anders Olsson : [00:15:20] Yeah. So when I say that the Kelvin dioxide paves the way for oxygen, the first is to trigger the inhale. The second is that carbon dioxide has a widening relaxing effect on the smooth muscles surrounding the airways.

[00:15:35] So basically then if we open our airways and left the oxygen in, down into the lungs, and then when it's transferred to the blood in the lungs, in the alveoli where the gas exchange takes place, also carbon dioxide has a widening relaxing effect on the smooth muscles surrounding the blood vessels. So, eh, When we have an optimum Sioux to [00:16:00] level in the body is easy for the blood to flow.

[00:16:02] So it's easy for the oxygen to reach the tissue and the cells. So, and, and the thing you talk about that CO2 actually helps to, um, to offload the oxygen from the hemoglobin they have Mcgloghan, they, you can think of it as a computer if it's once or Ciro's. So in the lungs, the hemoglobin have. They have one that is a protein that have one state, which attracts oxygen.

[00:16:31] So it has a high affinity for oxygen. And then when it reaches the cells and the levels of CO2 are high, the CO2 will lower the pH. And that means that the hemoglobin changes shape and releases the oxygen. And that is called the Bohr effect. So. And those are the four stages of why carbon dioxide actually paves the way for oxygen.

[00:16:58] So when we think [00:17:00] about oxygenating, our, body's not only about checking on the pulse Sox that tells us how much oxygen is available, right? Yeah. But not how much oxygen is actually in the tissues. But, but again, it's not only about CO2 lowering, pH that offloads oxygen from the hemoglobin is also about the pressure.

[00:17:23] So that's a, an important factor. But for sure. It's,  contributing.

[00:17:30] Carl Lanore: [00:17:30] Right? So, so what we've established here at this point in the show, and we're going to take a break. And when we come back, we're gonna talk specifically about COVID-19 masks. But what we've established here is all of these talking heads out there.

[00:17:43] That are telling you that your COVID mask is causing a buildup of CO2 and it's hurting you and all this other stuff. This is pure nonsense. It's pure nonsense. CO2 is not a waste gas. It's not bad. It's accumulation in your [00:18:00] body actually, as you learn to tolerate it. And that's what we're going to talk about here in a minute.

[00:18:05] But as you learn to tolerate higher CO2 levels, you actually will become healthier. Healthier. So before you go and look, I am totally opposed of the politization the politicalization of masks today. It's like, you know, it's like the whole vegan movement. Now there's the mask movement, you know, there's all this nonsense out there.

[00:18:27] I don't want you to get caught up in that. I hate wearing a mask to tell you the truth because people want to make me wear a mask, but there may be a reason to embrace the mask. And it may actually be good to train with. We're going to talk about that in a minute. Look. Yeah. And this has as he was wearing it.

[00:18:42] When I hooked up with him, it look, you can go to the website, conscious breathing.com. And you can learn so much about your breathing, how to correct it, how to affect it, and it will have profound effects throughout your entire physiology. There's free chapters available there. Andrews has great, you know, where I learned about mouth taping.

[00:19:00] [00:19:00] Which I still do today from Andrews. Right. He taught me about math at Meltemi. It improved my sleep in one night, in one night. And people were like, well, I'll just put a pillow on the, my Channer no, cause you will move and you'll go once you start breathing through your mouth. You don't sleep as deep because you're losing the opportunity to Rayanne hell, both carbon dioxide and nitric nitrous oxide.

[00:19:25] So, so nitric oxide, I'm sorry, not nitrous. Uh, there's so much magic in this. Go to his website. Learn from him. If you pick up one or two little tips, it will change your life profoundly. We're going to take a break. Those of you are asking questions. I promise we will get to everybody's question. Stay tuned.

[00:19:41] You're watching and listening to superhuman radio. We'll be right back. You are listening to the superhuman channel we're ripped and we're ready.

[00:19:52] Welcome back. We're talking with Andrews Olson. We're talking about breathing and I have to give a plug to somebody. There's a guy at my gym that I'm really fond of. He's [00:20:00] a hard worker. And, uh, he is, uh, started his own apparel company. Very, very bold, you know, COVID-19 and people are having to do things they've never done before.

[00:20:10] His name is a Tonga and the URL that you see. On my website on, on the screen right now, we'll get you to also be in the show notes. If you go there, he has a great tee shirt. I'm wearing it today. It says, make America train legs again. I love it. And a lot of his shirts are very, very brilliant. They're very clean and they're inexpensive.

[00:20:28] He's offering discounts. If you use that Bitly slash 30 gym apparel. Uh, you will get there and you can buy some shirts from him and help a young man. Who's trying to take advantage of, uh, opportunities and, uh, build his own empire. So there you go. So we're talking with Andrews Olson, we're talking about breathing, so let's get down to it.

[00:20:50] Let's talk about whether or not the covert masks are actually doing. Do you think COVID master Jew increased CO2?

[00:21:02] [00:21:00] Anders Olsson : [00:21:02] Well, I think. It is to start with when you put the mask on, most people can testify to that. It actually affects your breathing. So there is definitely a risk that people will open their mouth because they find it hard to breathe.

[00:21:19] And if they do, they will then read faster and more shallow and take bigger breaths. So. There is a risk that the collection of CO2 that happens in the mask and that you re inhale that, that, that you will exhale that again, because you are a breathing more because of the masks

[00:21:43] Carl Lanore: [00:21:43] and then also the restriction.

[00:21:45] Right? So when you exhale all of the. Air in your lungs is supposed to be able to get out easily. Any kind of restriction. If you put your hand up, any kind of restriction is going to keep the cause of pressure gradient, [00:22:00] where the CO2 that wants to get out, isn't going to get out and you're going to rain, hail it over and over again.

[00:22:06] And over time. If you re inhale first time, it's 10% and then only half of that gets out. You resell again, now it's 40%. And so the CO2 level is actually increasing just because of the re the reintegration process. Yeah. Now, now, so, so we can say that CO2 is probably developing, uh, in, in people. Oh, it is elevating when they're wearing these masks, assuming they're wearing it over their entire face.

[00:22:35] What if they're breathing through their nose exclusively? Is it still possible to, uh, increase CO2 in the body?

[00:22:42] Anders Olsson : [00:22:42] Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I, I tried it a number of times and, and when I use it, for example, I have this 20 minutes launch work. I maybe I've done the walk a hundred times, so I know, I know exactly how I feel afterwards.

[00:22:58] And. Then I've [00:23:00] done it with a mask as well. And what I find when I get back to the office is that I get a slight headache, which is exactly

[00:23:07] Carl Lanore: [00:23:07] hypercalcemia. That's one of the symptoms of hypercapnia you get a headache.

[00:23:13] Anders Olsson : [00:23:13] And that is exactly what I can get. When I do what I call the carbon dioxide training. I can basically induce headache by.

[00:23:21] For example, go out for a jog or a walk or a bike ride and eh, reduce the, the, the breadth set. So I count steps, for example, jogging, I take maybe three steps on the inhale and six, seven, eight on the exhale. And that means I reduced my breathing. So I reduce the outflow of . So I can then induce headache. I can get that end.

[00:23:49] I can also just by then starting to breed faster. I can make the headache will diminish. It will go away. Okay. So I can basically just by [00:24:00] moderate my, my C two level, I can, um, And get a headache and I can get it to a,

[00:24:06] Carl Lanore: [00:24:06] have it go away. Okay. So now we've established that the masks are increasing CO2 in the lungs of the, of the wearer.

[00:24:15] Now here is where things will get interesting. Uh, there are people who train with a breather mask that restricts your breath because it mimics what happens when you train at altitudes. So anybody who's a long distance runner, cyclist, competitive. I mean, I'm talking of the most competitive. They understand that altitude training increases red blood cells, but also.

[00:24:45] Built builds up a tolerance to CO2. So you don't feel uncomfortable. And that added CO2 with the increase in oxygen causes greater tissue, saturation of oxygen that allows them to compete [00:25:00] better. So, yeah. The thing that everybody's complaining about or I'm building up, it's just because they have such a low tolerance to CO2, but elite athletes build up that tolerance to leverage the value of added CO2 in their bodies.

[00:25:17] Anders Olsson : [00:25:17] Yeah. So,

[00:25:19] Carl Lanore: [00:25:19] so what are we complaining about folks wear the mask and train with it?

[00:25:23] Anders Olsson : [00:25:23] Well, I think we're complained because if you, eh, have this normal breathing, like 20 breaths per minute, that means over-breathing meaning low tolerance for CO2 because you blow out a lot of it. So when you put the mask on, it's like, actually, um, you can enter into a state of panic because you feel like you're going to suffocate.

[00:25:44] Because that's the trigger right? Building up of too much CO2 telling the body that, Hey, we're not getting enough oxygen. We're going to die. So every alarms to them in the body will be on red alert if we are about to suffocate. So [00:26:00] I think the mask can move us in that direction. So if you put the mask on and if you have poor breathing and put the mask on and let it stay there for three, four hours.

[00:26:10] That then you probably it's like going to the gym for the first time acclimated. Oh, do it.

[00:26:16] Carl Lanore: [00:26:16] But can you also, can you also alter your breathing to better leverage having the mask on, in other words, when you put the mask on, if you're sitting still and you just concentrate on breathing through the abdomen a little bit, having a good posture and slowing the breathing down.

[00:26:35] Anders Olsson : [00:26:35] Yeah.

[00:26:35] Carl Lanore: [00:26:35] Can't you actually go, okay, I'm breathing fine. Now. I'll get up and walk. I mean, isn't it, that it, you know what it reminds me of, there's a phenomenon called the mammalian breath. Hold. A factor. So when you have face field water, you, you, you know what it's like, you got the shower hits your face, you know, it can't drown you, but yet you go, you know, your gasp a little bit.

[00:26:58] It's it's because our [00:27:00] body is wired that when water is here or something is blocking our ability to breathe the blood vessels in the brain, open up. The throat airway opens up. Everything opens up, cause it thinks, Oh my God, we're going to get suffocated here. And that's actually called the million breath hold effect.

[00:27:16] And that makes you panic. And that makes you start breathing faster. So if people would just control it when they put the mask on and realize like, I can take this mask off anytime I want. Let me just sit here and see what it feels like. If I just slow my breathing down, wouldn't that solve a lot of the problem.

[00:27:32] Anders Olsson : [00:27:32] Yeah. I mean, this is a great thing to improve your breathing. If you do it correctly, if you open your mouth, if you engage in distress for breathing that I think is exactly as taking a cold shower and, and breathing like you want to be the reason, I think why cold showers and cold baths are becoming so popular is because it actually helps you to feel a sense of control and the way to do that.

[00:28:00] [00:28:00] In order to withstand that shower for more than three seconds, I think you have to go to your breath and try to breathe rhythmically and slow and low. And I think. If you can do the same in the mask, you would start to build up a sense of control and a self, uh, self confidence.

[00:28:19] Carl Lanore: [00:28:19] So this is a good place to inject the question.

[00:28:22] Uh, so we, we have a listener of who follows a show, Jeff Clifton. He says I've been doing the four. Seven eight breathing technique, but admittedly need to learn more about breath work. Where's a good starting point for learning, obviously your website. I'll put that back up again here in a second. Um, we'll depression and anxiety on the rise.

[00:28:42] Breathwork is fast, the fastest and cheapest work you can do for it. What do you think about that? You think about people who have suffered from great anxiety when they learn how to control their breathing. Does it have an effect on them?

[00:28:55] Anders Olsson : [00:28:55] My view is definitely that there is a close relationship between the breadth [00:29:00] and the levels of anxiety.

[00:29:02] So for example, if you have a panic attack and you come to the hospital, they will give you a bag to breathe in and out through. Right? And the reason why bag breathing works is because you, when you have this stress panic brain, you have low levels of CO2, which then constricts your blood vessels and deprive your brain or blood and oxygen.

[00:29:23] So when, when, when you do the backbreaking, you, you just re inhale some of the carbon dioxide, right. And that will then open up the blood vessels. So the stress panic brain will get more blood and more oxygen and it will start to calm down. So in my view, and, uh, after working with this for 10 years and read Tom's of studies and, and help, uh, houses of people, anxiety is one of the, um, The most beneficial effects of LV, improving your breathing, slowing down your breath, moving, using the diaphragm, breathing [00:30:00] low and slow.

[00:30:01] And when he says the four, seven, eight breathing, that means actually inhale for four hold for seven and exhale for eight. So if we look at that, Usually when we are in a state of anxiety, we tend to have more sympathetic activity than parasympathetic. So inhale is connected to sympathetic. So when we eat inhale for four and hold for four we're actually that is both on the inhale side.

[00:30:32] So we're actually active fading the body. So I, if I'm exaggerating, That is the distress response, the fast inhale. So what we see when we inhale is that the heart rate goes up, the sympathetic is activated and the muscle are activated. Why? On the exhale? We do the opposite. Like we can hear in the expression.

[00:31:00] [00:31:00] The stress is over and finally we can relax and we cite in relief. So relaxation is tied to exhale. So if we want to do a more relaxation, I would not necessarily do an exercise where you inhale for four and hold for seven. I would more do prolonged exhalation. And we don't have to do like, eh, we inhale for two or three and then prolonged for eight or 10 or 15 is we're just talking about the slight pro prolong, prolonged exhalation, maybe five or six.

[00:31:38] So three in six out could be a good, good thing. And also the other thing you get with this is that you get a more natural rhythm. So, whatever it breathing, I mean, there are tons of reading exercises out there and a lot of them actually has an emphasize on holding your breath. And I think actually [00:32:00] that is a big problem in today's society.

[00:32:02] That's a modern disease. When we concentrate, when we focus, we hold our breath. So why should we do breathing exercises when we hold our breath? I don't think that makes sense. I think more. The rhythmic breadth, where we slightly prolong our exhalation. If we want to get more into the parasympathetic state, where we are more relaxed is, is the way to go over.

[00:32:26] Holding our breath.

[00:32:27] Carl Lanore: [00:32:27] So what I learned several years ago before I actually came to the event where I met you, and we talked about breathing in general, eye breathing has helped me a lot. I, there were periods of my life where I became very stressed and anxiety was coming on. And just by focusing on my breathing, I brought myself back to normal.

[00:32:45] And it's not easy it's it takes focus. However, one time I was watching a TV show like national geographics and they were studying great apes, the Silverback gorilla. And there was a Silverback [00:33:00] gorilla sitting, uh, against the tree. And it was just observing. They were so far away, I guess, with the camera, he wasn't in their view.

[00:33:08] And he, he thought he was all alone and I watched the way he breathed. Cause you could hear the way they breathe. Cause they breathe. They have, they move so much air through that, that, that nasal passage, it sounds you could hear it. And what I noticed he was doing was he breathed in, breathe out and he didn't breathe right back in again.

[00:33:32] Then he breathed in breathe and it made me think about my own breathing. And I thought, you know, When you, and this is how I figured out that the HRV link. So I started experimenting with my breathing. I have a stethoscope at home that I use to check my blood pressure and I put it by my heart and I got quiet and I sat there and I took in a normal breath, nothing exaggerated.

[00:33:55] And I exhaled through my nose, but then I paused until I felt like I [00:34:00] needed to take another breath. See, because we don't do that anymore. We just breathe in and out in and out, in and out, we think, Oh, that breath is gone. We need to get another one. And I started doing that and I listened to my heart rate go, but boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

[00:34:14] But boom,

[00:34:15] Anders Olsson : [00:34:15] boom,

[00:34:16] Carl Lanore: [00:34:16] boom. I was like, Holy crap. And then I started breathing rapid and boom, my heart rate went right back up. Boom, boom, boom, boom. And I thought so the heart rate variability is all a function of breathing.

[00:34:27] Anders Olsson : [00:34:27] Yeah.

[00:34:29] Carl Lanore: [00:34:29] But just pause pausing after the, try this, if you, if those of you who can't. Work with this, take a normal breath, exhale, but don't breathe in right away.

[00:34:40] Just kind of give yourself a second or two. Don't make yourself uncomfortable. And you, and by doing this, you will accumulate more CO2, but you'll do it in a fashion where you don't feel very uncomfortable. And then, and then slowly make that pause a little bit longer. That's kind of like what Buteyko teachers, right?

[00:34:57] Anders Olsson : [00:34:57] Yeah. And it's similar to using [00:35:00] this device  which I developed the relaxation, which it gives you a adjustable resistance and it prolongs your exhalation.

[00:35:11] Carl Lanore: [00:35:11] I love this. You can get it at his website, conscious breathing.com. Not only can you get mouth taping, uh, that the tape to tape your mouth, but this device right here is amazing where it put it in your mouth when you're in your car.

[00:35:23] And especially if you're stuck in traffic and you normally get like agitated easily and, and just follow the instructions is breathe in and breathe out through it. And it has an adjustable. Pressure gradient so that you have a little bit of back pressure. You resist your exhale a little bit. And by doing that, you just gather just a little bit more CO2 than you normally would, but it also slows your breathing down.

[00:35:46] And all of a sudden you feel relaxed and appropriately you call it the relaxing relaxation, right?

[00:35:51] Anders Olsson : [00:35:51] Yes.

[00:35:52] Carl Lanore: [00:35:52] Yes. It's brilliant.

[00:35:55] Anders Olsson : [00:35:55] But the key is again, I mean, they, they, it's not like doing a [00:36:00] workout for you for your biceps. Th the lung tissue, they are. Fine tuned it. They are a very delicate tissue. So a lot of people, they tend to overdo it, including myself.

[00:36:13] When I started my breathing journey, I thought it was all about pushing myself performance, but the key to good breeding is relaxation. And that usually don't go hand in hand with. Pushing yourself. So a lot of people, they may then extended the acceleration too much. They have too much of a pause after the exhale, or they do this relaxation too much, or they wear the mask for too long and what they will find afterwards, system that they are gasping for air, that they are ah, sighing, or they are.

[00:36:47] Joining or they are just taking knee needing to take big breaths. And that is because this year to have increased too fast. So the brain center is not able to be [00:37:00] reset at, at that pace, which in my view is similar to going to the gym and just overdo it. You, if you have never been there, you have to start slowly step by step.

[00:37:11] Otherwise you will just. Wake up with sore muscles and maybe not set your foot there against a key is really to not try and overdue.

[00:37:20] Carl Lanore: [00:37:20] And we do that. Humans where we're humans, we overdo everything we think of some is good. More is better. So look, the website is conscious breathing.com. We're going to take a quick commercial break.

[00:37:28] When we come back, we're going to start talking about how to leverage the. Is it possible to leverage the covert mask? Should we wear it for short periods of time? How should we use it? How sh how can we use the mask to get the same effect as mimicking out altitude training? Stay tuned. We'll be right back

[00:37:50] is the superhuman channel evolution just got kicked up a notch.

[00:37:58] Welcome back. So just for fun, [00:38:00] I went on the internet and I Googled. Uh, altitude training masks. They range anywhere from a low of $70 to a high of $145. And all they're doing is restricting your breathing, restricting what you can inhale and exhale. So basically they're modifying, what's known as the RCT that triggers, uh, uh, the ability to go beyond your limits.

[00:38:23] Bye bye. Causing a buildup of CO2 and everybody out there is complaining, Oh, I got CO2 buildup from my mask. You know, that's not the problem. The problem is that you're just not, you can't tolerate it because you don't breathe right. To begin with. Right.

[00:38:39] Anders Olsson : [00:38:39] Yes.

[00:38:41] Carl Lanore: [00:38:41] Amazing. Amazing. So how can, so, so how could the mass be used?

[00:38:46] Obviously you're not a proponent of wearing the mask all the time, right?

[00:38:52] Anders Olsson : [00:38:52] No. I mean, I don't use them here. Right. Where I live in Sweden. There are very few people actually using the mask at all. So, no, [00:39:00] I think the mask, if we just look at the phenomenon where we are supposed to wear the mask in many different settings is I think that's a fair base, short term reaction that probably.

[00:39:16] I mean, how long should we wear the mask forever or what happens next year? If there comes a new virus, is it mask on? I don't think that that's the solution to the problems they are facing.

[00:39:28] Carl Lanore: [00:39:28] No, but, but, but I get, I, but one thing I think we could say for sure, if the mask causes you to get dizzy and headaches and all this other stuff, it's, it's because you are not breathing right to begin with.

[00:39:40] Is that a fair statement?

[00:39:44] Anders Olsson : [00:39:44] Yeah. To some extent. I mean, it also depends on what you engage in, right? If you, you have a stressful job, for example, uh, working in a hospital and you have the mask on.

[00:40:11] [00:40:00] Carl Lanore: [00:40:11] Yeah, because, because if you, if you realize that, wow, I, I can't wear this mask very long. Then you need to start working on learning, to tolerate wearing the mask that will actually improve your breathing when you're not wearing the mask. If you start to focus on, like, if you go to the website, conscious breathing.com, you start using some of the tips on there for just normal breathing.

[00:40:33] You'll probably find that, Oh, this mass doesn't bother me all of a sudden, because when you start breathing right, a seal, you know, small to moderate rises and CO2, don't make you feel uncomfortable. Like, Oh my God, I'm panicking. I'm going to. Pass out your body is supposed to be able to tolerate that. You know, we've talked about how modernity has caused people not to be metabolically flexible because [00:41:00] they eat anytime they want every two hours.

[00:41:03] And then as soon as they have to fast, they get the shakes, they get the headache. I can't, I can't, I got to eat. I'm going to fall down. I have friends that literally all like this, like I can fast for 24 hours if it just turns out that a. I, I can't really, uh, do what I want to do. I have a button flashing here.

[00:41:21] I'm trying to figure it out. Um, I have, uh, a friend. I have friends that can't tolerate a fast at all of any color. They literally say, well, if I don't eat every two hours, I still getting the shakes. That is because you have been eating inappropriately for decades. Well, if you put a mask on and you literally feel like you're going to pass out in a couple of minutes, you have been breathing wrong for decades.

[00:41:43] Anders Olsson : [00:41:43] Yeah, you can say that it's actually quite similar, right? We have a tendency in today's society. There is food everywhere. So we overeat and then we need to do the intermittent fasting or whatever to reduce the eating. And it's basically the same here. We, we reduce [00:42:00] the, the oxygenation. We will reduce the intake of oxygen because we, we tend to overrate.

[00:42:05] We tend to have too high levels of, of, um, Carbon dioxide in our body.

[00:42:10] Carl Lanore: [00:42:10] I think

[00:42:12] Anders Olsson : [00:42:12] oxygen,

[00:42:12] Carl Lanore: [00:42:12] I'm sorry. Uh, I think the real problem with masks is the mask lays on your throat. You know, if it was a nice cup where it was like, when I look at these breathing masks that they sell for to mimic altitude training, which you're basically doing, if you're restricting air flow, um, they are nice and round and sh and rigid.

[00:42:32] So they don't collapse with every breath. They don't collapse in your face with every breath. I think that's the real problem for some people with the mask. I think it's just annoying to have it literally sucked to your face every time you inhale, but no one should be freaking out about Marriott wearing these masks and having moderate amounts of CO2 buildup, unless you are really unhealthy and you just haven't been breathing right for decades and you are shallow breathing to begin with.

[00:42:56] Yeah. You're going to feel horrible then. Absolutely.

[00:42:59] Anders Olsson : [00:42:59] I have a [00:43:00] CIPD right where you have destroyed lung tissue. You tend to have higher levels of CO2. The lung tissue, the alveoli may be destroyed. They're chronically inflamed and destroyed, and you can't get this YouTube out of your body.

[00:43:13] Carl Lanore: [00:43:13] What about Wim Hoff?

[00:43:15] The Wim Hof method. Jeff Clifton asked that that's a hyperventilation model. Is it not?

[00:43:20] Anders Olsson : [00:43:20] It is. Yeah. So. I mean, I'm, I'm not opposed to any method. There are tons of, as I said before, tons of different reading exercises, I've written an article on the website, Wim Hof, where versus conscious breathing, where I discuss the ins and outs and the.

[00:43:38] I I, if we just look at the fact how much CO2 and how much oxygen is stored in the body, we have about 120 liters of steel to stored in the body. And you may ask, how can we have 120 liters, but it's a gas. So for example, as soda stream can has 360 liters. I think. So we do have about hundred and [00:44:00] 20 liters in our body, but the amount of oxygen, we only have 1.6 liters.

[00:44:06] So 75% more. See it too. And if we really take a step back, I mean, we live from one breath to the next. We have excess of water and proteins and fats and glucose, but the most important nutrients oxygen, we only have enough to go by about five, six, seven minutes. And why is that? That doesn't make sense.

[00:44:33] Does it unless. Oxygen has some negative properties and it does, it's both a curse and a blessing. If we stop breathing, we die, but too much will create, create free radicals. Like we talk about the mitochondria as the, uh, the fireplace, the furnace in our body. And if you have a fire burning and you put oxygen on it, it will basically explode [00:45:00] because oxygen is so extremely reactive.

[00:45:02] So. The only reason why we store only 1.6 liters in a body is because oxygen is so reactive. So we can't afford, we don't want more of that gas. It will become toxic then. So when we do exercise, when we overbraid, when we hyperventilate, we will then lower the CO2. And we will increase the oxygen, which may then give rise to inflammation.

[00:45:34] But what also happens is that when we lower C two, we will increase adrenaline. So we will get an adrenaline rush. We will feel good. So one study, for example, they did a bunch of medical students. They were hyperventilating on two occasions. First they inhaled normal air. And on the second occasion, they inhaled air spiked with [00:46:00] 5% carbon dioxide, which is called carbogen.

[00:46:03] And then they measured carbon dioxide levels in the blood and they measured adrenaline. So when they hyperventilate normal air. The carbon dioxide levels were 50% lower and the adrenaline increased by 360%. And when they, eh, hyperventilated with the Aerospike with see you to the C two levels in the blood was almost on changed.

[00:46:29] And the adrenaline was also almost, it was on changed telling us that when we lower see you too. We increase adrenaline. So a lot of us, we are adrenaline junkies. We love the adrenaline rush, and that is the reason probably why we engage in different, um, exercises where we over-breathing. And I'm not saying it's, it's not, eh, Good for you necessarily here and now, a lot of people can [00:47:00] feel the benefits.

[00:47:01] For example, talking about fasting. I did a three day fasting if you, a years ago. And at the end of the three days, I was really longing to eat, but I decided, okay, I will finish off with the whim, half exercise, 20 minutes breathing forcefully. And I got so much energy. So I decided to do another day of fasting, which was a big surprise.

[00:47:23] But we, we, we have to look, I think the short term effect a lot of people, they, they feel more alive and kicking when they do Wim Hof reading. But how is it in the longterm attack? And I'm not so certain that the long term effects are, um, our

[00:47:40] Carl Lanore: [00:47:40] optimum w I want to take our last commercial break. And when we come back, I want to talk about two things.

[00:47:45] I just got a text message from a fellow who is watching. But he wants her to remain anonymous and he has an interesting problem that now that he's listening to you, he's thinking maybe breathing could help him. Number one, number two, I [00:48:00] want to ask you about AHI. What does it tell us when we feel like we have to go every so often?

[00:48:06] Does it mean we're breathing too shallow? Is it an indicator of anything? Stay tuned. We'll be right back with more super human radio.

[00:48:22] welcome back.

[00:48:27] What does AHI tell us? There's that momentary urge to take a big prolonged. Breadth does it mean that we haven't been breathing properly? Does it mean that our tolerance co two is an adequate? What is it? Does it mean anything

[00:48:43] Anders Olsson : [00:48:43] to me, to me it's a sign of a poor breathing. I tend to think that most of us, we, we switch between ADA, we over breathe and the next second we hold our breath.

[00:48:55] So we switched between those and, and, uh, When, when [00:49:00] we breathe too little, we have to take these big breaths we side with John. We, we, we just take a big breath. So it's a very rhythmic way of breathing in and the brain. I mean, the brain always liked to be one, two, three, four steps ahead, trying to predict the future what's going to happen.

[00:49:19] And one of the most major thing the brain need is a steady supply of oxygen. So when it doesn't get that way, which does since, when we, when we over breathe or when we hold our breath, when we switch between those two or when we have the, these big breaths, the brain will get stressed

[00:49:37] Carl Lanore: [00:49:37] then. Okay. A guy who's watching, not using his name.

[00:49:43] He asked me now, too. He says, whether I'm lifting or jogging makes no difference. Anytime I'm stressed or short breath. It goes into effect. His heart rate picks up. He becomes lightheaded. It's like sink cope. Even when I'm not short of breath, it can, but [00:50:00] exhausting breath is a certainty. So he's breathing rapidly, right?

[00:50:05] Low reps, high reps, no different. I can get them from seven to eight reps of slow body weight, only squats or sets of three 50 by five. So he's telling me what he's lifting. Uh, when at first, when this first hit me, I was striking a tire with a sledgehammer, but I remembered I was holding my breath. Every impact that it made, maybe that triggered this, it sounds to me.

[00:50:31] So he has a problem. If he exerts himself, his heart rate picks up. He panics it's really like a panic attack. He feels short of breath. His heart rate picks up. Then he gets lightheaded. From what we're talking about today, it sounds like his breathing is triggering this. Could it be. Yeah,

[00:50:51] Anders Olsson : [00:50:51] it could be. I mean, I've been doing this for now for 10 years and I have only met one person.

[00:50:57] For example, when I'm out jogging that have [00:51:00] been jogging with the mouth closed. So everyone, they look their mouth wide, open eyes about the pop out, sort of, they look really stressed out, actually. So my motto is. Don't go faster than, you know, this will allow you. So I recommend everyone to do their physical activity with nasal breathing.

[00:51:20] And, um, of course you have to adjust, so you, you probably would need to lower the intensity, but, and, and a lot of people think, no, no, I'm not able to do this at any high intensity, but it's mainly a mindset actually. So if you consider yourself as a beginner and you take it slowly, step by step. Before, you know, it usually within a few weeks you will be able actually to perform at the same level.

[00:51:47] So I've done a couple of studies with CrossFit at least. And when one study I did a few years ago, one of the participants, he, he was very fit. He used to be a Swedish record [00:52:00] holder in triathlon iron man distance, eight hours, 15 minutes. So the study was, they were biking with all their might and two occasions.

[00:52:09] And we measure one of the things we measured where their pals. So the first occasion, the, the, uh, uh, nose was taped. So he can only breathe through his mouth. And his pulse was 155 and the mouth waiting. That's the normal way of breathing for him. And then the next occasion on the same by cloud and this time with the mouth type.

[00:52:34] So he could only breathe through his nose. It's pause went down from 55 to 139. And for such a fit guy, that's a really that's. Yeah, that's huge.

[00:52:45] Carl Lanore: [00:52:45] I want to post this up and then we're going to end the show right. In a moment. So Lee Lee say Winfield Bonner up says, watch the cap, nominator and note that CO2 does not [00:53:00] increase if wearing a face mask.

[00:53:01] This, this is not true. And I'm going to tell you why. I mean, maybe. You've seen this, but it's such a broad statement. There's an entire industry out there that makes masks too. Resist breathing in and out that are designed specifically to cause the elevation of CO2. So this is a very broad statement when people make broad statements like this, what mask and who's wearing it.

[00:53:25] And you know, I get what you're saying that maybe most people aren't really seeing the shield to elevation that they think they are, but this is too broad of a statement to take seriously. I'm sorry that, like I said, there's a whole industry, that whole industry that. That sells masks just because it builds up

[00:53:42] Anders Olsson : [00:53:42] CO2.

[00:53:45] Yeah. And, and, but maybe this mask is not the same as S no, of course,

[00:53:53] Carl Lanore: [00:53:53] of course. But, but I will say this, that. People may wear that mask. [00:54:00] And because of mammalian breath, whole response and face obstruction, they may start breathing shallow. And while you may be right, the mask, isn't keeping CO2 from exiting, but they're new adapted, shallow breathing because they're all freaked out that they have this mask on.

[00:54:15] Is is actually causing them to build up CO2 that they would have if they would have put a piece of tissue paper over their face. So if this is too broad of a statement, I appreciate your sentiment, but it, it, it, I could prove you that it's wrong. I can, I, if I, if I had a cap nominator, I could find three people whose CO2 would go up.

[00:54:32] Once I put a mask on their face because of the way they change their breathing. So, but anyway,

[00:54:37] Anders Olsson : [00:54:37] um, well, I will just take in my experience. I mean, I'm, I'm the curious guy. I always want to test different things and, and using this mask now for a few weeks, really trying to understand, I definitely noticed that it does affect my breathing, that I feel similar effect as when I do carbon dioxide training.

[00:54:58] When I go through physical activity and [00:55:00] reduce my breathing

[00:55:01] Carl Lanore: [00:55:01] and we breathe, we breathe. Carbogen. When we were at the meeting, it was amazing. It made my whole body warm. I actually felt like my, my hearing, my audible acuity increased. I was able to hear clearer. I could feel like I almost felt like I could feel something running through me, like an energy.

[00:55:21] And I'll never forget that. And you would think that, Oh, breathing a high amount of shield. That's dangerous. I felt fantastic while I felt better breathing the carbogen than I did just breathing the room air. That was amazing.

[00:55:38] Anders Olsson : [00:55:38] So yeah, in my view, carbon dioxide is that our natural tranquilizer. The difference between a person sitting meditating in deep relaxation and harmony compared to the person in a state of panic.

[00:55:53] It's not where they have slept well or eat well, or if they're in love or have lost their job, they've made a difference between [00:56:00] those two States. It's the breeding it's carbon dioxide. The person in panic attack have low levels of CO2 and the person meditating, relaxed, harmonious. It have a slow and low breathing and high level associates too.

[00:56:14] And

[00:56:15] Carl Lanore: [00:56:15] we see all this playing out in Buteyko breathing techniques. I know a lot of people who use Buteyko, they believe in it. And don't, they'll tell you, they used to have anxiety attacks. They used to, they couldn't train as hard and everything changes just from. Consciously altering the way they breathe.

[00:56:33] The website is conscious breathing.com. You can go there and get free chapters. There's lots of gadgets and things you can use to improve the quality of your, your breathing. Check it out. See, I had to clear my throat. That's my problem. I have allergies. They're they're they're crazy right now. Um, so check it out.

[00:56:51] Uh, it's worth learning about I'm telling you nothing will have a more profound effect on your heart rate, variability than learning to breathe better. And that's where you go [00:57:00] conscious breathing.com to learn Anders. Thank you so much for being on the show with us. I know it's what time is it there? And in Sweden?

[00:57:06] Anders Olsson : [00:57:06] It's 

[00:57:09] Carl Lanore: [00:57:09] so, okay. Well thank you for staying around and doing the show today.

[00:57:13] Anders Olsson : [00:57:13] Thank you. Thank you for having me call

[00:57:16] and we'll see everybody Monday with more superhuman radio. Don't forget. Please share the show. Help somebody out. Share the show. We'll see you Monday. Thank you. [00:58:00]