[00:00:00] Carl Lanore: [00:00:00] lyme disease is a horrible condition. Oh, today is, uh, July 23rd, 2020. Um, people who are plagued by Lyme disease, generally a plague for the rest of their lives. And it doesn't get better. Often gets worse and they lose faith that they can even get better. Uh, my guest today is considered the most prominent of all Lyme disease.

[00:00:24] These physicians out there. And he is dr. Richard Horowitz before we undergo and get started here. I just want to mention that this show is brought to you by question. I'm sorry. Legendary foods, Freudian slip there. Uh, eat legendary.com is the website to go to decode is SHR. You'll get 10% off everything.

[00:00:47] Uh, there at the website, show them some love. They make the show possible. Welcome back to the show. Uh, dr. Horwitz, how are you? I'm

[00:00:55] Dr. Richard Horowitz, MD: [00:00:55] doing well. How about yourself, Carl?

[00:00:56] Carl Lanore: [00:00:56] Fantastic. Fantastic. And we had you on the show recently [00:01:00] because you did a couple of really good studies about using a glutathione and treating the, um, the, uh, pneumonia aspect of COVID-19, which was summarily taken down off of YouTube.

[00:01:14] As soon as I put them up there, interestingly enough, I was like, what's the harm people it's, you know, Doctors can infuse glutathione. What's the big deal. But obviously the draconian police saw that information is dangerous. If you teach people and they become smarter, they're a danger to themselves. But anyway, but more people wanted to have you back on the show because.

[00:01:36] Of your wheelhouse, the place that you spent your career, which is a, is treating Lyme disease. When did this start for you? Lyme disease. When did, I mean, you're an MD, you didn't specialize in Lyme disease. When you got out of medical school, how did you evolve into this category?

[00:01:51] Dr. Richard Horowitz, MD: [00:01:51] No, in fact, the story is kind of funny because I was finishing up my internal medicine training at Mount Sinai in New York.

[00:01:58] I was doing a rotation in the [00:02:00] city hospital systems. And I remember my third year of the internal medicine residency, we were invited to a lecture from Stony Brook, from a professor about Lyme disease. And I was sitting in the audience with my friend. Um, Howard and how he and I were, you know, listening to this and I turned to him and I went, Oh yeah, I'll probably never see any of this in my lifetime.

[00:02:21] And of course I then was offered a job to come upstate to the Poughkeepsie area of Vassar brothers hospital. Uh, invited me up there so I could work with them. I was assistant director of medicine at the hospital for awhile. I worked in their emergency room, opened up a clinic, which they helped me to set up.

[00:02:37] And, um, when I moved to Deschutes County in New York, which is about two hours North of New York city, I didn't realize I was moving into the largest Lyme endemic area in the United States. So the whole thing really just got started by accident because I moved into a line with a very high Lyme endemic area.

[00:02:52] I was taught in medical school to always get to the store. The problem don't just treat symptoms, uh, put yourself in people's shoes and do for them and what [00:03:00] you would want done. So I went on a medical detective, the journey, which has now taken me past 30 years. So look for answers for this very debilitating disease.

[00:03:07] Carl Lanore: [00:03:07] And it's gotta be very frustrating for you because, you know, there are a lot of people out there who are very negative and very cynical and they think, Oh, sure. You know, you treat a disease, there's no cure for. So, you know, you're getting wealthy. You'd much rather have a disease that you could cure and send people home.

[00:03:22] Right.

[00:03:24] Dr. Richard Horowitz, MD: [00:03:24] Yes. Well, well, first of all, we're not really even taking patients in my practice anymore, just because we're on overload and the money aspect has absolutely nothing to do with it. I mean, I know what rumors are out there in general, but that's all the politics sizing of medicine that has nothing to do with the real world.

[00:03:39] Um, what I personally do, I can't speak for other doctors comes from a sense of duty and responsibility. For the public to help people who are sick and nothing more. So, you know, regarding this disease and curious issue set and, uh, you know, the treatments that are out there, the good news and the reason I'm happy to be on your show today is because in the last five to [00:04:00] seven years, we've really made some tremendous breakthroughs regarding new treatments, uh, for treating chronic Lyme disease.

[00:04:06] We still have a ways to go with some of the co-infections like the BCA, which is a parasitic infection that gets into a lot of the Lyme patients. And Bartonella, which is a bacterial coinfection that seems to infect at least 50% of my patients. We still have a ways to go. Uh, but an example, my wife, who was sick with Lyme for about 30 years is now going on about three years.

[00:04:27] Symptom-free after doing two months of an antibiotic protocol and I shared this protocol or at least a good part of it. In my last book, how can I get better? So not only am I now looking to make money from this, every secret I have that helps the public. I stick in a book and I tell people how to do it just because I'm only one person and there's an epidemic worldwide going on with life.

[00:04:48] Carl Lanore: [00:04:48] Now, one of the early tasks you took on was standardized testing because if you can't truly diagnose, you know, Lyme disease [00:05:00] and diseases like fibromyalgia, They are generally diagnosed based on symptoms. And it's hard too, cause there's a lot of diseases that overlap symptoms. And so it's hard to precisely know.

[00:05:14] Do I have some on who is treatable for Lyme disease or is this just a, a group of symptoms that mimic those who have Lyme disease? You spent a lot of time, uh, actually working on. Uh, testing you. In fact, you came up with the Horowitz, multiple systemic effects, factious disease syndrome questionnaire that designed to tease out people who truly have Lyme disease and people who have other chronic diseases.

[00:05:38] When all put together, look like Lyme disease, right. That's correct. So we

[00:05:43] Dr. Richard Horowitz, MD: [00:05:43] published this study, it took us about three years to do it. And I worked with researchers, PhD researchers from the universal, the city of new Paltz, which is kind of in our backyard here, uh, dr. Mary Ellis Sitara and dr. Phyllis Freeman and the study was done with 1600 people.

[00:05:58] We had healthy [00:06:00] people. And then we had people who had had Lyme disease in the past, or had active symptoms. And we were able to validate a symptom questionnaire, statistically, so that, uh, in fact, it's the only statistically. A validated symptom questionnaire. That's out there for diagnosing Lyme and it's needed.

[00:06:16] Because for example, as you said, with chronic fatigue syndrome, myalgic, encephalomyelitis, or fibromyalgia, the symptoms can look the same. You can get fatigue, you can get joint and muscle pain. You can get nerve pain, headaches, sleep disorders, memory problems, mood disorders. So how do you differentiate Lyme from it?

[00:06:33] Well, there are some basic facts with Lyme that you don't see in other diseases. So for example, with lime. You generally get good and bad days with the symptoms tend to come and go for no good reason. Um, the joint pain, the muscle pain and the nerve pain, that team numbness, burning, stabbing sensation, that's neuropathy it migrates around the body.

[00:06:53] And when I published this study, we did a literature search and we found out that there are only seven diseases in medicine. That [00:07:00] cause migratory pain. And unless you're at the bottom of your medical school class, you generally should be able to differentiate hepatitis from ulcerative colitis, from gonococcal arthritis to acute rheumatic fever.

[00:07:11] I mean, lupus, I mean, it's pretty easy, honestly, if you know how to do a basic. You know, workup for these diseases. So the migratory aspect is very helpful when people take antibiotics, they usually say they feel better or worse, which is a Herxheimer reaction, right? It's a cytokine storm, very similar by the way, to what you get with COVID-19.

[00:07:32] Um, so there are some very specific symptoms of Lyman with you score over 63 on the questionnaire. It's more than two standard deviations, meaning there's a very high likelihood you've been exposed

[00:07:43] Carl Lanore: [00:07:43] to life. Okay. So let's get. To the optimistic part of the interview, what is a new and promising in Lyme disease treatment?

[00:07:52] Cause we actually have people in the audience that have questions who have Lyme disease as well. So let's start. Okay.

[00:07:58] Dr. Richard Horowitz, MD: [00:07:58] So about five to seven [00:08:00] years ago, some of the university based researchers like dr.  who was working at John Hopkins, he just left, but he was there for many years. Dr. Ava xAPI from the university of new Haven, uh, Stanford researchers.

[00:08:12] They started looking at two different forms of Lyme disease. Called biofilm forms and persister forms. Now the light bulb went off in my head when I started seeing the literature on persister forms of Lyme, because it's different to say that we know what bacteria persists in the body. For those of us who've been following the literature and treating Lyme patients.

[00:08:32] We know it persists. That's just a medical political issue that that's happening out there, but the literature clearly supports it as do the clinical studies we've done. Um, but persist your forms means that persists. Like tuberculosis or leprosy. Now, when I was in residency, it was during the HIV AIDS epidemic and I was using tuberculosis drugs because we were seeing TB reactivate or Mai mycobacteria, maybe I'm intercellulary.

[00:08:58] So I had a lot of experience using [00:09:00] INH and rifampin and pyrazinamide and some of these drugs, I always wanted to use them for Lyme disease, but I never had a good enough reason until these articles got published by these researchers. So I went and I looked up these drugs that they use for other persister bacteria, specifically tuberculosis and leprosy.

[00:09:18] And I came across a drug, which is good. Well, Dapsone Dapsone has been around for probably 50 to 70 years. It's been used for acne. It's been used for autoimmune disease. They use it for a whole broad range of diseases. And when I looked up the properties of Dapsone what astonished me is number one it's anti-infective, which is great because most of the, for Lyme are from inflammation.

[00:09:39] Yeah. It would hit the persister forms. They use rifampin and Dapsone for a year to treat leprosy, just the two drug combo. It also has anti-malarial effects and most of my patients are exposed to Babesia this tick-borne parasite. So that would be great cause that's a bonus. So we decided to look at the episode qualities in treating Lyme [00:10:00] and I knew were famine and Dapsone was used for treating leprosy.

[00:10:03] So all I did was add doxy, cycling to the mix, doxy cycling amp, and Dapsone we would give them Plaquinel hydroxy chloroquine. One of the drugs that's been discussed now for COVID. The advantage of the drug is it hits the cystic forms, a otherwise called round body forms of Lyme. It alkalizes the intracellular compartment to make doxy and rifampin more effective.

[00:10:26] And lo and behold, when we started giving this regimen to people, we started, we were noticing that some of the people that failed traditional regimens were getting better. So we played with this approach and I published two articles in the last several years. Uh, these two articles encompassed 300 patients.

[00:10:42] They were retrospective. We still need to do a prospective study and we showed that that's some combination therapy was good for the eight major symptoms of Lyme, like fatigue, headaches, brain fog, memory problems, a joint pain, muscle pain, nerve pain, a Babesia symptoms like night sweats, day [00:11:00] sweats, chills.

[00:11:01] Uh, so it was a very useful drug. And one of my patients by accident a couple of years ago, took a double dose of it for a month. Came in and felt horrible. And I asked him what he was on. He said, Oh, I was taking it twice a day. I said, no, no, no, no, that's that's too much. I said, stop. The drug had come back in a month.

[00:11:17] He came back in a month. This kid was in his twenties and sick for seven years. You'd only been on antibiotics for four months. He came back and said, doc, I feel fabulous. I said what? He said, Oh my God, I feel great. I said, all right, don't take anything else. Member sick for seven years, four months of drugs, we follow.

[00:11:34] I met him over the year. He never relapsed. So I turned to my wife, who'd been sick, our entire marriage, and I said, Hey honey, would you like to be a Guinea pig? I have this kid who acts that we took a double dose. It looked like it knocked it out. Would you be willing to do it? She did. And my wife has now almost three years.

[00:11:52] Now, the advantage of this protocol is it's very short. It is. I dose it as side effects so we can discuss that in a minute, [00:12:00] but it is very, very encouraging that people that have failed other treatments, including. Longterm IB treatments, multiple oral drugs, herbal therapies. I have a lot of people getting better on Dapsone combination therapy.

[00:12:13] Carl Lanore: [00:12:13] This is exciting. I, you know, these, my brain starts connecting dots. We're starting to learn more and more about antibiotics and their pleiotropic effects. We always thought that all they do is they just kill bacteria, you know, pathogens. That's what they do. What we learned about. Is it, the myosin in this COVID virus situation is that the preponderance of a senescent cells is what causes the deadly effects of COVID versus just symptoms.

[00:12:45] And you get better. And when you tell doctors to prescribe. Zip the myosin for COVID they go, no, no, no. It's not affected by antibiotics. But what they fail to realize is that [00:13:00] Zithromycin was approved by the FDA da as an, as a, uh, an anti aging drug. That five day standard Z-Pak regimen will vanquish 97% of the senescent cells in your body.

[00:13:14] And this lines up nicely with people who take rap myosin for. Uh, anti, uh, uh, organ rejection after they've had kidney transplants, they don't, they, there was a guy on the, on the ship that first ship, his wife got sick. He didn't get sick. He takes rapid myosin every single day because he's got an organ transplant and they tested them and they said, yeah, you, you, you, you have the virus, but it seems to be going away.

[00:13:39] So the reason this is the long way around the horn is we're starting to understand. We've always said that antibiotics are bad because of what they do to the microbiome. But when we talk about immunity and we talk about the immune system, we're talking about the gut. When we talk about inflammation, we're talking about the army of the immune system.

[00:13:57] So when we're starting to realize that [00:14:00] maybe antibiotics aren't the villains, we think they are. That there are good applications for them where they can actually do like a recent, I've always wondered why I can't take a high regimen of antibiotics, like the way we kill our lawn and reseed, why can't I just kill all the bad bugs and the good bugs and everything and reseed, which is good bugs.

[00:14:19] And because we don't know what the good bugs are at this time point in time, but it's fascinating to me because what we're learning is like, you're saying, look, it's, it's an antiviral. It's this it's that? It's amazing. I think we're going to see. A Renaissance of the application of antibiotics, uh, for, for a variety of different diseases that have nothing to do with microbial, pathogen, infestation at all.

[00:14:41] What do you think about that? Am I going too far off? Well,

[00:14:44] Dr. Richard Horowitz, MD: [00:14:44] I mean, I think some of it's possible, but let me just comment just on a few things. So number one for the microbiome, um, you're absolutely right. You have to be careful with the microbiome, with any antibiotics, even a seven day course, uh, for an upper respiratory infection could wipe out the good bacteria in your colon for year.

[00:14:59] And most of the [00:15:00] doctors do not give probiotics when they give even short courses. Now, that being said Dapsone does not seemed to have an effect on the microbiome and the standard protocol that we use when we do combination therapy for Dapsone is we usually use at least three different probiotics and very high strength.

[00:15:16] So for example, one of them, yeah, Saccharomyces, boulardii, it's a type of a yeast Saccharomyces boulardii has been shown to stop C diff diarrhea. We've got very few cases of C diff over the years, doing it. When people take it properly, we use a probiotic called lack for master supplements. It's been vetted by the FDA.

[00:15:35] It has a code around it, a sodium algenate coat that 95% of the 40 to 60 billion of these five strains that have been shown to be an octogenarians. The people who live the longest on the planet are in this particular probiotic. We use their lack one, twice a day. Saccharomyces one, twice a day. And then other probiotics, whether it's ortho biotic, ultra flora, probiotic, there's a bunch of them we use, but saying that we make [00:16:00] sure that we are very careful with the microbiome and when people come off the protocol.

[00:16:04] We leave them on these probiotics sometimes with prebiotics to give them food, to make sure that we have replaced the microbiome. That because it is important. Now, you, you mentioned something about the good bacteria. There was an article that just came out a couple of days ago about this bacteria called Prevotella COPREE that they no with allergies for these kids that get peanut allergies and problems.

[00:16:26] If you don't have it enough of this bacteria of you basically, you're going to yours from allergic, uh, standpoint. And they know also that. Certain Clostritium species and other species. If you have them may put you at higher risk for ms. Uh, they're showing the same problems with, uh, uh, Parkinson's disease with Alzheimer's that the microbiome does play an important role, but I mean, we do have a long way to go into it.

[00:16:48] We figure out exactly which strains and how this is going to work. I mean, we're not there, but we do protect the microbiome. And one of the things that yeah we do with this protocol is we use biofilm agents. So the second, [00:17:00] most exciting thing that happens with Dapsone combination therapy, we didn't know until about seven, eight years ago, that Lyme disease Borrelia burgdorferi exist.

[00:17:08] And under biofilms, we normally learned as doctors that biofilm infections would be like, like salmonella, um, C diff candida, uh, yeah. Endocarditis. These are well known biofilm infections. Nobody ever said that. The reason we weren't getting rid of Lyme disease was because the bugs were hiding under biofilms.

[00:17:27] And no matter what herbs or antibiotics you gave them, they weren't able to pen Tate through the biofilms. And then from the antibiotic standpoint of finding the bugs, well, if they're being protected by the biofilms, you're not going to be able to see it. So there are many reasons that the biofilms are important and we use three biofilm agents.

[00:17:45] When we're doing Dapsone combination therapy, we're using ones like Sarah peptides. It's like bloop. Um, we can speak your compound from neutral medics. We're using oregano oil biocide, and there are many different ones that have come out in the last couple of [00:18:00] years that are effective in opening up the biofilms.

[00:18:03] We don't really know what the exact like most perfect combo is. So I give three of them just to play it safe. But it definitely, you will see people have Herxheimer reactions and feel worse, right? Just biofilm agents, it will say, Oh my God, I'm feeling much worse than it is because you're opening up the biofilms and your immune system has the chance to get to the bone.

[00:18:21] Carl Lanore: [00:18:21] Right? The biofilm is there specifically to sequester things and lock them up. It's kind of like a virus volt. And when you start to disrupt that, in fact, there was a study I talked about probably seven or eight years ago that shows that. Cirrhosis of the liver from alcohol consumption is a result from the livers, an ability to have paddock stress from filtering alcohol, but the disruption of the biofilm in the gut that then releases really horrible things that get caught in the liver and cause cirrhosis, I mean, it was shown in research.

[00:18:55] So yeah, the biofilm is important except when it becomes disruptive, which I think [00:19:00] we have a comment here and a question. Mark the Corso says after a diagnosis of Lyme disease that was put on doxycycline for four weeks, I felt sick. A few months later, I did another round of doxing for six weeks and got 80% better, was pretty happy with that.

[00:19:17] Slowly started coming back by chance. I had sinus surgery. They gave me Sefton CFT. I N woke up three days later. It was a hundred percent symptom free, very strange. And then he goes on to make a comment. That says basically, um, in regards to the above, have you seen variability in what works for certain people?

[00:19:41] I don't want to be biased. He's an N equals one. And in fact, didn't you publish a study specifically pointing out with precision medicine that, that everybody responds differently to these, these therapeutic approaches, right? That's correct.

[00:19:57] Dr. Richard Horowitz, MD: [00:19:57] So the thing to understand about this [00:20:00] bacteria, Borrelia burgdorferi is it has cell wall forms.

[00:20:03] Cell wall forms will respond on to  or IB reception or Omnicef, um, which are all cephalosporins or penicillins. So if you have an actively growing bacteria, Sefton amoxicillin, Ivy reception, it will work for that. Particular type of bacteria now, not the doxy cycling doesn't work for it. But doxy cycling primarily is for the bacteria that go into the intracellular compartment, Sefton will not go into the intracellular compartment.

[00:20:32] So when I create regimens for people, and this is all by the way, in the back of my book and the addendum, I have all of the protocols of how I put them together for people. So for example, uh, 15 years ago, I might've used Sefton Sephora, Roxy maxi till for the cell wall forms. Plaquinel with grapefruit seed extract for the cystic or round body forms.

[00:20:53] And it stems from mice central max for the intracellular forms with some nystatin. So they don't get yeast infections. And that was [00:21:00] what we were doing 15 years ago. But then we found out out in the last couple of years that we've got these two other forms, we have biofilm forms and we have persister forms.

[00:21:09] So if you get diagnosed early and you take an antibiotic, you can be cured. From Lyme. They know this, right. If 80% of the people up to 90% will be cured, but there's 10 to 20% and the research may be up to 30 or a little higher. We'll fail 30 days of an antibiotic when they're treated early. And go on to chronic Lyme disease or what I call , which is that you've got multiple infectious disease syndrome.

[00:21:35] You're not just sick, but you have, co-infections like the BZ Nella, you've got heavy metals and environmental toxins that are also driving an inflammatory response. You've got my proteome issues. You've got my card, chondral dysfunction. You have mineral deficiencies, your autonomic nervous system that controls your blood pressure.

[00:21:52] It's been affected. It's like going into a doctor's office, 16 nails in your foot and telling the doctor. You got pain in your foot. If you don't find all [00:22:00] the nails, you don't get better. Right. So I suspect in this particular case, uh, with, you know, the one who just wrote in, he had actively growing forms of Lyme.

[00:22:09] That's why he responded to this, left him. But if you followed him out over time, if they're a persister forms or biofilm forms, yeah. He's going to tell you that the symptoms are going to come back again. Right? So that's, what is the case for most people? If they don't get it early on in the process,

[00:22:25] Carl Lanore: [00:22:25] if you're listening to this show and not watching us on YouTube or Facebook, the book is called, how can I get better?

[00:22:33] An action plan for treating resistant Lyme and chronic disease. Uh, you can get it at Barnes and noble. I would imagine I know it's This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. or you can go to the website, can get better.com. Dr. Horwitz has been called the most prominent Lyme literate physician, uh, around today by the new Yorker and people literally.

[00:22:55] Wait months and months, and months and months just to get into the practice. You're [00:23:00] not even treating people anymore, right? 

[00:23:04] Dr. Richard Horowitz, MD: [00:23:04] I'm down to two days a week. No, I still treat patients, but I'm not really accepting new patients anymore because I've been doing this for almost 35 years. My wife would like to have a life with me and she kind of set the limit and said, you know, something.

[00:23:16] We've got a really great marriage. How about spending more time together?

[00:23:19] Carl Lanore: [00:23:19] So

[00:23:20] Dr. Richard Horowitz, MD: [00:23:20] it's balanced now of like the life work balance and quite truthfully, it's wonderful because I'm able to publish more studies. I've been able to work for the government for HHS. I, I gave them lots of free time. They never paid me for my work for the last few years, but I served on the tick borne disease working group.

[00:23:36] Um, a couple of years back with the CDC, the FDA, the NIH, and even if defense, we gave Congress recommendations. So this was all just, you know, serving the American public and. Trying to help, uh, all these Americans that are so sick.

[00:23:49] Carl Lanore: [00:23:49] So, uh, Elisa Profumo is watching and she says, what about protease enzymes for biofilm protease, enzymes, do anything good for biofilms?

[00:23:59] Dr. Richard Horowitz, MD: [00:23:59] Yes, they do. [00:24:00] In fact, Sarah pep taste. One of the ones I mentioned is actually a protease and there are certainly people that will use like a balloon and other forms of proteases. Some people like EDTA. Uh, for it also to take the calcium out of the biofilms. So, yes, um, proteases are definitely one of them, but what we really need at this point from the researchers, and this is where we just need more money put into the research.

[00:24:21] They've really got to compare all the biofilm agents, one against the other, and then just combos and do triple combos because we really don't know if there's one particular regimen that may work the best, then. Dr. Yang's on from John Hopkins has done some of the work, um, on this. And he's even recently done it for co-infections like Bartonella where things like cinnamon oil, oregano oil, a clove oil, these essential oils have a very, very strong effect on the biofilms, but we need a comparison.

[00:24:51] For all the people out there. And then of course, clinical studies to see how it works.

[00:24:55] Carl Lanore: [00:24:55] Do you believe that the deer tick really is domino one [00:25:00] in Lyme disease? Or do you think it's transmissible or do you think that could be some other things happening to people? We have a fellow who listens to the show, often John peaks.

[00:25:08] He said that he had a tick tick bite from earlier this year. He posted a picture of it up on Facebook. His brother says it's line because of the bullseye. Uh, in the bite, don't all ticks lead that bulls-eye because they buried their head in the skin.

[00:25:23] Dr. Richard Horowitz, MD: [00:25:23] No. So you can get a little red dot around where the tick embeds, but they don't cause bulls-eye so the, the classical bullseye rash, um, and people need to understand it's it's very deceptive.

[00:25:33] The bullseye rash is actually not the most common rash people get from Lyme disease. They get a spreading solid rash that oftentimes is mistaken for cellulitis, for skin infection or spider bite. So a lot of times they go into emergency rooms, they have this solid spreading rash, and the doctor says, Oh, it's a cellulitis or a spider bite here take a few days.

[00:25:52] And they don't really knock it out. But the true bulls-eye where you have these rings of red and white, it happens, um, with [00:26:00] Borrelia burgdorferi, but it also happens with other species. So for example, tick-borne relapsing fever. A is a cousin of Lyme disease. The one we are most commonly affected by in the United States is called beryllium miyamotoi.

[00:26:13] We discovered it probably maybe 10, 15 years ago, it will rarely cause a bullseye rash. Now, fortunately, the treatments are pretty similar and then there's a form of Lyme in the Midwest. It's called  S T a R I Southern tick associates, rash like illness. It also has a bullseye, but we don't know what type of brilliant is.

[00:26:31] They've never been able to identify it. So if you do see a bullseye rash, you have to assume it is a brilliant species. Whether it's tick-borne relapsing fever or brilliant. Burgdorfer I Lyme and you should be treating this until you're completely symptom free. Now, if you're a person with a bullseye rash with no, no symptoms like no headaches, no fatigue, no visual problems, memory problems.

[00:26:53] You're probably going to get over that within 30 days on doxycycline or Sefton. But if [00:27:00] you get a bullseye rash and you have a stiff neck headache, Memory problems, concentration problems, sleep disorders, mood swings, um, tingling, numbness burning of your face or extremities. That means that the lime was got up into your central nervous system.

[00:27:16] It got into your nerves and your peripheral nervous system. 30 days of antibiotics is not going to cure that. That's a very important point, especially because a lot of people will stop antibiotics. When they have these symptoms and they really should be going forward with the treatment and using biofilm agents and some of these other new treatments that we're talking

[00:27:34] Carl Lanore: [00:27:34] about.

[00:27:35] Is it a good idea that if you know, you've been bit by a tick, regardless of what type of ticket is to immediately go to your doctor and maybe get on an antibiotic regimen and what would be the best antibiotic regimen to do as a prophylactic? Not, not knowing whether you have Lyme, you don't have like, obviously ticks are dirty, nasty bugs, and they cause some type of symptoms.

[00:27:54] What do you think.

[00:27:56] Dr. Richard Horowitz, MD: [00:27:56] So there were studies done here in the U S and in France that they found up to [00:28:00] 36 different organisms in the tick. I mean their cesspools for back for bacteria, for parasites and for viruses. Um, and one of the viruses, by the way, you have to be very careful, uh, and you tip prevention, which, uh, for example, I was out today, gardening, I put on lemon eucalyptus soil and then followed it by a pick a Ryden, um, a 5%, although 10 and 20% is better.

[00:28:22] And these are safer than deep. Uh, so that's on the skin and you can use, pick a riding. Um, in, in most people it's generally safe for children. Although in pregnant women, you'd probably use IRR 35 35, which is an amino acid based product. They've studied in Europe and it's completely safe pregnancy. Um, the clothes should be right treated with permethrin because that kills the ticks, but the lemon eucalyptus soil, or pick a Ryden.

[00:28:46] 10% I'd probably say is minimum to 20, that will help propel ticks and mosquitoes. So you have less chance of getting West Nile or a triple Lee in any of these other viral infections that are out there. So, um, it's very important to know what's in the tip. [00:29:00] So if you get a tick bite, you should save the tick and you should send it either to your local health department, or there's a company out in Colorado called technology and Monica who runs the company.

[00:29:11] They do a great job. They will check the checks. Yeah. For tick-borne relapsing fever for Babesia species, uh, for tularemia, for Rocky mountain spotted fever for ehrlichiosis, for anaplasmosis, they're going to check for all of these organisms. So if, if it comes back in a week and nothing is in the tick, then you could stop.

[00:29:29] Let's say you're doxycycline, prophylactically, which is probably the one most people are gonna use. Okay. Now the advantage of doxy is Lyme disease can kill you. For example, from a Lyme carditis, you can get a third degree, heart block. Thank God. It does not happen that often. But once it's 3% of the people who get a tick bite who get Ehrlichia or Anaplasma, uh, which can be transmitted by too, those people will die from Malicky Anaplasma.

[00:29:57] If they don't get in doxycycline. And it's the same thing [00:30:00] with kids, especially children with Rocky mountain spots fever. If you don't get in the doxy cycling within the first six to seven days, you can die. Wow. So, so it's really important. And the pediatricians used to say, I don't want to go if kids stocks the cycling because it stains the teeth.

[00:30:17] And the answer to that is yes, no, it doesn't the older tetracycline stain, the teeth, not doxy cycling. And in fact, you can even then use doxy for a short course in pregnancy. How do I know this? I know this because I work with the tick borne disease working group at HHS. And I was co-chair of the other tick borne diseases and co-infections committee.

[00:30:38] And one of our members who was on the CDC basically gave us all the studies on this and what happens with Rocky mountain spotted fever and that pediatricians who are listening out there, you can give short courses of doxy to kids under eight. You can even give it to pregnant women. It's not going to affect the fetus.

[00:30:54] So you got to know what's in the tick. I do use doxy most often, but if you're in a [00:31:00] place because doxy, sun sensitive. That you really are at risk for sunburn. You can use sift in the drug that we just talked about earlier. You can use Sefton for Lyme, but it's not going to cover it, right? Yeah. It's not going to cover Anaplasma.

[00:31:13] It's not going to cover, um, a Babesia. It's not going to cover it. Rocky mountain spotted fever, tularemia. So you gotta be careful. You got to know what's in the tick and dog ticks contain a completely different set of organisms than the lone star tick. The lone starts to tick is now in New York and the Eastern seaboard.

[00:31:30] Um, it's containing tularemia Ehrlichia, um, Rocky mountain spotted fever. You can get alpha gal allergy from a tick bite where the saliva of the tick makes you allergic to red meat. So six hours after you have a nice steak at night, you're in the emergency room complaining you can't breathe from an anaphylactic reaction.

[00:31:49] Carl Lanore: [00:31:49] Holy mackerel, I've been hearing more and more about the red meat allergies. That's interesting. That's very,

[00:31:55] Dr. Richard Horowitz, MD: [00:31:55] and that's from the lone star tick. So again, jog, ticks. Uh, wood ticks, [00:32:00] lone star ticks, deer ticks. You gotta know your tick. You gotta know what's inside the tick, but send it out. That's really your safety.

[00:32:06] Yeah. I didn't

[00:32:07] Carl Lanore: [00:32:07] even know that was possible. That's that's valuable information right there. I, I, you know, I think about how much time I've spent in the woods, hunting and stuff like that. And I've never, um, had an encounter with a tick, but then again, I stay pretty covered up when I go out and, you know, I don't, I don't go out in shorts and, and frolic.

[00:32:23] Uh, we're

[00:32:23] Dr. Richard Horowitz, MD: [00:32:23] going to, it depends by the way in your body heat and carbon dioxide, I sweat a lot. So they love me. And the thing about the loans, regular deer techs will come from 12 to 15 feet away, but the lone star tick, you could be 50 feet away from the edge of your property. They'll come running after you.

[00:32:40] Uh, even from 50 feet away. So people need to know the rule of thumb after you've listened to this podcast is please. I beg a few tip prevention with picker riding with are 35 35 lemon eucalyptus. Uh, treat your clothes with permethrin. You're gonna save your life and your family's life because it's out there and you don't want to get COVID on top of lime.

[00:33:00] [00:32:59] That is a nasty combo.

[00:33:01] Carl Lanore: [00:33:01] Talk about, uh, the CO2 emission from the body. And cause I, I. Mosquitoes love me. So I would imagine ticks, probably love me to stay tuned. We're going to be talking more, uh, with dr. Richard Harwood. We'll be right back listening to the superhuman channel we're ripped and we're ready.

[00:33:23] Welcome back when you get right back into the program. But before we do that, I got to talk about product. This is   is a, uh, a chip made from egg whites. And it's good for you. It's healthy. It's satisfying. It doesn't screw up your stomach. Alyssa loves the Melissa's very particular. Um, a lot of things don't bode well with her gut and you know, the only things out there today.

[00:33:49] I mean, they're, they're all made with these high carb bean chips or there's the kale chips, which I don't like them at all. It's like eating. Dried grass. The folks over at  have decided to come up with the [00:34:00] first chip that's made from egg whites. It's a great source of protein and fiber and every bag. It's a low carb, minimally added sugar, tiny, tiny bit, but it's nothing to be concerned about.

[00:34:13] Uh, it's really a snack without tradeoffs and it's tasty and it's enjoyable. It's also gluten free, grain free, and it's for people who care about. What they are snacking on. If you go to the website  dot com. It's Q U E V O s.com and use the code SHR. You'll get 15% off. Give them a try. I promise you.

[00:34:35] They're fantastic. I like these, the sea salt and cracked pepper. I brought him today to eat after the show. So there you go. Uh, getting back to the discussion. I want to talk more about, uh, what we were looking at us. I forgot to remove the image. I did that whole spot without anybody seeing our faces. Dr.

[00:34:51] Horwitz, anyway. It's probably better off with my mug, but anyway, um, so, so what about that? Am I a, am I a [00:35:00] bigger target for the tick? Because mosquitoes seem to drink from my blood. The second I get outside, outside the house.

[00:35:09] Dr. Richard Horowitz, MD: [00:35:09] Ticks just like mosquitoes are attracted to heat signatures and carbon dioxide.

[00:35:13] So, yes. I mean, I'm not quite sure why you haven't had ticked exposures in the woods covered as possible. You are well covered, but there was a study years ago by the Westchester County health department, they covered over completely and they bagging for ticks. And I, it was something, some ridiculous number, like 18% of the people that did everything they could to not get a tick bite.

[00:35:31] I'd still got bit. Yeah. So you have to be very careful, especially if you're one of these people that gets bit by mosquitoes.

[00:35:37] Carl Lanore: [00:35:37] I want to ask this question first, before we move on to some other questions I have about biology. Okay. Lisa and I have befriended the deer, uh, in our area every morning we put buckets of corn out.

[00:35:50] They all, they literally come right up on the lawn, close to the house and we feed them and she's asking, should we be more concerned because we're actually attracting deer into the backyard.

[00:36:01] [00:36:00] Dr. Richard Horowitz, MD: [00:36:01] You are unfortunately asking the wrong person. Cause I know the deer by name in my backyard. Um, you're really asking the wrong person come in the winter time off my deck and I'm feeding them out.

[00:36:12] Carl Lanore: [00:36:12] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um,

[00:36:15] Dr. Richard Horowitz, MD: [00:36:15] yeah, so, so the answer is yes, but the only reason I don't have the problem on my land. Is, we have a company, New York tic control. They've been coming for 15. We have eight boxes, 55, zero around our four acres of property. And when the mice go in and they eat the, Oh, it's the permethrin that is on the roller kills the ticks.

[00:36:39] So it's even though the Dera carriers, believe it is the mice, by the way that it's still the number one carriers of the text, not

[00:36:44] Carl Lanore: [00:36:44] the deer.

[00:36:46] Dr. Richard Horowitz, MD: [00:36:46] So with these bait boxes and the fact that, and I'm an environmentalist, I'm really careful with chemicals, right? But they use spray twice a year with something called ultra tempo.

[00:36:56] Now the only reason I allow it to be used it's because it does not get into the [00:37:00] groundwater because I'm living off Wells and I'm a real environmentalist with chemicals. It has a seven day half-life and they do it twice a year, initially in the spring for the NIMS and then the fall for the adults. We have never seen a tick on our property.

[00:37:14] Despite the deer coming up to my deck all day long at the turkeys, by the way, I should photo this for you. Sometimes Tom, the Turkey comes up on our deck every morning, every morning, asking for bird seed and we go out there and he's got a whole flock and we're feeding the turkeys in the morning and the deer come over and feed.

[00:37:31] Carl Lanore: [00:37:31] I love animals,

[00:37:34] Dr. Richard Horowitz, MD: [00:37:34] but understand. I am doing something to my land to prevent this from happening. So Alyssa, if you're not taking care and protecting yourself, It's a slightly different situation because the ticks obviously can fall off the da or near your property. Right. And then you can have a problem.

[00:37:49] Carl Lanore: [00:37:49] So let's talk about testing again for a second.

[00:37:52] Um, I think one of the papers that you had published, uh, was about how approaching, uh, to diagnosis of Lyme [00:38:00] disease misses a lot. A large portion of the cases, the way testing was done, we had someone who actually asked a question about testing here, Mark the Corso again, because he suffered with lung disease.

[00:38:13] Have there been strides in Lyme testing? I've been told it's so unreliable doctors don't even want to test for it. So

[00:38:22] Dr. Richard Horowitz, MD: [00:38:22] I wish I could tell you there was better news. There is a, a new testing scheme instead of the standard Eliza followed by a Western blot. They now have a two tiered EIA kind of an Eliza system, uh, which is supposed to be better.

[00:38:36] But if you actually look at the studies that came out on it, yeah. They're pretty much the same. I don't really see that there is a grand benefit. The Eliza test, generally, if you like, look at this two tiered testing, it's going to miss anywhere. I mean, it depends on the labs you're using, but you can miss probably around 40 to 45, even up to 50% of the people.

[00:38:55] Well now how do I make the diagnosis then? So. I do a line panel approach [00:39:00] and I have this, by the way, all these tests are in my book. So there are what you call indirect tests, which are antibody tests, and then you have your direct best. The direct tests would be your cultures, your PCR, your RNA culture, fish, um, and the, the antibody tests are not just the license.

[00:39:16] So these six Eliza is an antibody test that doesn't check for just one string, but checks for European strains for really Abdullah and brilliant green eyes. Now, recently we have discovered that these European strains have made it themselves in the United States. They've now established themselves. And I don't think most people know this.

[00:39:34] So these, these quads, other rashes, the, uh,  instead of causing a bullseye rash, it causes a bubble dilation, skin rash, generally of your hands and feet. Um, really agree. And I is causing  neurological problems. So the C6 Eliza will pick up these other strains. But there's also new Western blots, the standard Western book, a lot from quest or lab Corp checks one string.

[00:39:58] Well, there were multiple strains of Lyme. [00:40:00] You can't expect one strain is going to pick it up. So I genics used to do in California two strains. Now they have an immuno blot that checks seven to eight strains. So it's not just checking really Obrador fry, but it's also checking the European strains and it's checking a broader range of Borrelia.

[00:40:17] So when you do it, immuno blot, IgM and IgG. You will see bands show up and I call it line bingo that if you have any one of these bands show up on an immuno blot, bingo. You've been exposed to Lyme. So what are the numbers you need to like memorize 23? That's the outer surface protein, C 31. That's the outer surface protein.

[00:40:39] A 34 is the outer surface protein, B 39. And then the 83 slash 93. Yeah. If you are someone who says I have good and bad days, my symptoms are coming and going. I'm tired. I have headaches. I have memory problems. I have migratory joint pain. I'm sweating at night. I have mood swings. I can fall asleep. I keep [00:41:00] waking up in the middle of the night.

[00:41:01] I have chest pain, shortness of breath. These are the classic symptoms. We even have one of those numbers on an immuno blood. 2330, one 34 39, 83 93. You've been exposed to a earliest species. There's no other way. You can get these on an immuno blot. So although the two tier testing is not significantly improved with an Eliza and a Western blot.

[00:41:24] If you use an IFA immunofluorescent antibody, if you use a C6 Eliza, um, if you use an immuno blood instead of a Western blot, um, if you do the two tier DIA. What's going to happen with PCR testing with DNA testing. Eventually you're going to pick it up, but it has to be yeah. Panel approach that you can't rely on one set of testing.

[00:41:47] And what's a really important point. Here is a lot of people will get IgM antibodies that are positive and they bring them to the doctors. Now you learn in medical school and probably the public knows this. IgM is supposed to be [00:42:00] early onset disease. IgG antibodies you're made later. The problem with Lyme is the IgM antibodies.

[00:42:07] You're seeing them both early and late. And the reason is when Borrelia gets into your body and invades the lymph nodes, and they found this first in mice with Nicole Baumgart's studies in California, and we published it in the and medicine studies. We found that 45% of our patients were CDC positive for Lyme, but by IgM.

[00:42:27] And these were chronic Lyme patients, not patients with early disease. The immune system was knocked out with chronic Lyme, 20% of the people. Um, we're having problems with low IgG antibodies. 7% had chronic variable immune deficiency that were really deficient, couldn't even fight the infection. And 85% had subclass deficiencies, which were classic for Borrelia.

[00:42:49] So you're right. Immune system is affected and you may not make antibodies. And it's really necessary to understand that when you're not getting back positive tests,

[00:42:58] Carl Lanore: [00:42:58] are there asymptomatic people? Are [00:43:00] there people out there who have been bitten by the deer tick and just never develop any symptoms at all of Lyme disease?

[00:43:07] There,

[00:43:07] Dr. Richard Horowitz, MD: [00:43:07] there probably are some, I mean, there may be some people that get a small load of organisms. Um, they may just get a couple of them and their immune system is able to fight it off. But for the vast majority of people, this is a really pathogenic bacteria. I mean, having been in medicine now for almost 35 years, I can tell you this disease is about as, as dangerous and as wildly as to get, because it changes forms.

[00:43:31] It knows how to the immune system. And that's not even, you mentioned the political aspects of this disease that's been going on for 40 years. And by the way, I should save this just so everyone knows. Cause I worked for the government for HHS. The opinions I'm giving you today, do not represent the opinions of HHS borne disease working group or the U S government.

[00:43:49] The lawyers have always told me when I give these interviews, these are my opinions. They do not reflect HHS. Right?

[00:43:56] Carl Lanore: [00:43:56] Well, the reason I asked that is one of the things that [00:44:00] we've learned from this covert experiment is. The sheer number of people who have been exposed to the virus have been asymptomatic.

[00:44:09] Yeah. Which has led me to say on the show numerous time that I bet you. If one year we started randomly testing hundreds of thousands of people a day for the seasonal flu, we find that a lot more people get it, then actually display symptoms and go to the hospital, which makes you start to think, wow, we have a real opportunity here with random testing.

[00:44:31] We can take a disease, maybe not Lyme disease, but a disease. And if we started testing people randomly and we found out that there's this whole cohort of people who've exposed to this disease, maybe their body developed antibodies to it. They never developed any symptoms that would actually help us understand maybe a path to better therapies.

[00:44:52] And the reason I asked that, I'm sorry, please. So, so right

[00:44:55] Dr. Richard Horowitz, MD: [00:44:55] now, and I discussed this on the last show with you. Um, we are still having [00:45:00] tremendous success. I have two published papers on COVID-19 and we use three natural supplements to block a switch inside the nucleus called NF Kappa B that shuts down inflammation.

[00:45:10] And the reason I knew to do it is because when I looked at the inflammation from COVID, it was exactly the same inflammatory molecules you see with line, these three sophomores are minuscule. Cystine. Alpha lipoic acid and glutathione. And to give you an example, it was at you're on the front lines in New York city.

[00:45:28] He had an oxygen saturation in the seventies. He was on oxygen and had low oxygen set COVID pneumonia. He sent me as on a text, he sent me his X rays and said, I am sick as a dog. And I can't go back to work. Um, and I said, well, here's the protocol we're using. We're using 2000 milligrams of glutathione two to three times per day.

[00:45:47] If you're sick with COVID, we double the NAC to 1200 twice a day, vitamin C, we double it to 2003 times per day. And we're using drugs like ivermectin to kill the virus. Well, lo and behold, 10 days later, I get a [00:46:00] text from him. He's smiling. He's without oxygen, he gets engaged and he says, guess what? I'm back to work.

[00:46:06] I feel great. All my symptoms went away and we are getting emails in our medical office from people who are not even patients in my practice. Who are telling me that they tried this protocol and it's working. The problem I face is I've sent these articles to all of my contacts at the federal and the state level.

[00:46:22] And I've not gotten any traction yet to do the studies to prove it works, but here they're all searching the waiting for vaccines. They're looking for REM DESA severe, which only lowers the viral load and out of the hospital in four days, they're looking at monoclonal antibodies. I got a simple solution, which of course I need a randomized controlled study to prove it right.

[00:46:41] But every person so far, who's done this, it's worked for, and guess what? NAC and glutathione have antiviral effects. They've been published in the literature for hepatitis, for HIV, for herpes viruses. So I'm pretty confident that what we've discovered would actually work. If I could only get someone to look at [00:47:00] nutraceuticals, instead of pharmaceuticals, we'd actually have a solution for them

[00:47:04] Carl Lanore: [00:47:04] that doesn't make any money.

[00:47:05] Everybody is it's almost like I, you know, And saying this all call you getting political, but it's just the fact that it's almost like a, anything that potentially could save you is being put on the back burners because we need a vaccine. We need a vaccine and we know that vaccines don't work exclusively.

[00:47:22] Anyway, a real quick, the book is called, how can I get better? It's an action plan for treating resistant Lyme and chronic disease. You can get This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.. You can get it at the website can get better. Dot com I got a couple more questions. I want to wrap up, um, the interview with, uh, because maybe I've got it wrong, but it seems to me that women tend to get lime more frequently than men.

[00:47:47] And based on that, is that a, is that a true, true statement before we go into the break? Uh,

[00:47:53] Dr. Richard Horowitz, MD: [00:47:53] it is, um, we, we definitely, we've seen more women in our practice than men who have it. It's tough to know if guys are just [00:48:00] sucking it up and living with it, with what the idea say would call the agency pains of daily living, uh, and tell you if it's that.

[00:48:07] Um, but you know, the problem, this goes, you were talking about pool testing before and checking people, and I want to just come back to it for a second. Lime is the great imitator we have at this point, 5% of the U S population has chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia. Now the symptoms are exactly the same as line 23 million Americans have an autoimmune disease in the United States.

[00:48:28] OnePlus is auto immune reactions, just like environmental toxins, like mercury and BPA and other things. And we have 46 it's point 5 million Americans that have preclinical dementia looking like they're going to go on to Alzheimer's. And they found Spire Cates from lime under biofilms in Alzheimer's brains, apart from pesticides.

[00:48:49] And this is all published in JAMA and other places. Right. So my concern is, you know, when we're talking about 300,400, 500, 600, a thousand people a year getting Lyme, or tick-borne in the [00:49:00] United States, we really don't know the truth because you've got all these other things, diseases that are mimicking lime for all I know, you know, we could be dealing and I have a feeling by the way, this is true.

[00:49:11] That a third or 50% of the U S population may have already been affected by this cause it's been around for 40 years and nobody's got adequate testing.

[00:49:19] Carl Lanore: [00:49:19] And another reason why we need random testing for this, that that's where I was going with this. Like, I would love to be able to say, let's do random testing for this.

[00:49:27] Let's see what the, the population. Has been exposed to. All right, let's take a break. I have a really infant question about estrogen. When we come back stage is the superhuman channel evolution just got kicked up a notch.

[00:49:43] Welcome back. We're talking with dr. Richard Horowitz about Lyme disease. Something that he has spent his life working in and trying to help people who suffer from it. It's a horrible, horrible disease. I have a cousin whose life. With CA has been derailed by it [00:50:00] completely. You can't live a full and fulfilling and happy life if you're plagued by Lyme disease.

[00:50:07] So women tend to be, um, higher targets for Lyme disease. Is there an estrogen component? We know that estrogen has, we know that sex hormones is having an effect on microbiome diversity. Is there an estrogen component to this at all?

[00:50:24] Dr. Richard Horowitz, MD: [00:50:24] Absolutely. In fact, they've shown estrogen also plays a role in the autoimmune manifestation.

[00:50:30] Uh, so, so for example, there are certain like auto-immune, uh, eye conditions, riddled, cyclists, um, they can take down prolactin levels. One of the female hormones, they get better. So yes, there is an estrogen component and women will tell you right before, during, and after their period, when the estrogen levels drop that's when the Lyme symptoms come out.

[00:50:49] So. If, for example, you've managed to knock down the load of the bacteria in the body, in a woman. And she says, Hey, you know, I'm, I'm good, 27 days out of the month. But right before, during or after my cycle, [00:51:00] I'm getting symptoms back a fatigue and aches and headaches. That means you've knocked most of it out.

[00:51:05] But when the estrogen drops, that's when the bugs come out.

[00:51:08] Carl Lanore: [00:51:08] That's interesting. So, so is it safe to say that, uh, if a woman seems to develop. These symptoms as she goes through menopause that maybe hormone sensible bioidentical HRT might be a good adjunct to a therapy.

[00:51:24] Dr. Richard Horowitz, MD: [00:51:24] I mean, we don't do it specifically for Lyme, but I mean, women who have done bioidentical hormone therapy have told us they feel better.

[00:51:30] What, what makes it very confusing and women when they go through menopause is they start getting hot flashes. And since at least 80% of my practice has Babesia this tick-borne malarial parasite. The BZ, it causes day sweats, night sweats, chills flushing, right. Um, including coffin air hunger. So we could look like menopause and then sometimes you're not sure what's hormonal or what's Babesia.

[00:51:52] So it, it gets a little tricky when women go into menopause and they have this particular parasite.

[00:51:57] Carl Lanore: [00:51:57] Um, the, let me, let me go back and [00:52:00] just put the website and talk about the book again. The book is called. How can I get better? It's an action plan for treating resistant Lyme and chronic disease. You can get This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it..

[00:52:10] We find out books have sold. Also, you can go to a dr. Horwitz's webpage can get better. Uh, there is really no one who's done in the space of Lyme disease with dr. Richard Horowitz has done, uh, like I said, people line up for months just to see him because he actually helps people get better. And the book tells everything you need by it.

[00:52:36] Your physician buy two copies, buy one for you and buy one to give to your doctor. Who's treating you because really this is a specialty that has been cultivated organically, uh, in dr. Horowitz is practice. It's not something that he learned in university and, you know, it's something that has been a trial and error and reading research and doing [00:53:00] studies and publishing papers.

[00:53:01] And learning how to test and you can bring your own physician up to speed very, very quickly. And I'll tell you something else. If you have fibromyalgia, there's a lot of things in this book that can help you deal with your existing symptoms as well. Because as you said earlier, these two diseases look very, very similar.

[00:53:20] These women suffer from a lot of the same issues. And so clearly, and, and, and, you know, I'm almost sorry. Quick question. Did we have Lyme disease? Um, before widespread vaccination.

[00:53:35] Dr. Richard Horowitz, MD: [00:53:35] Oh, absolutely. Lyme disease has been around for a long time. They found Lyme disease in artsy. The Neanderthal man who's into Raleigh I thousand years ago, the busiest, they find Babesia parasites in Amber, in the red cells a million years ago.

[00:53:52] These, these bacteria and parasites have been around for a long time.

[00:53:56] Carl Lanore: [00:53:56] The only reason I asked that is I had an interesting physician on the show probably a decade ago. [00:54:00] Who talked about, not, not that vaccines are bad, but the way they make vaccines today caused wholescale activation of the immune system.

[00:54:11] That, that is broader than just what they want the immune system to learn. And that it could actually cause, um, over active immune systems later on in life, because it's like, you're waking up the army and they've got no one to fight. And so, and I just thought like, yeah, one day. The, the more vaccines you get, the more likely you are to have an immune system.

[00:54:32] That's going to go awry. When something like Lyme disease is introduced.

[00:54:39] Dr. Richard Horowitz, MD: [00:54:39] My patients definitely have problems with vaccines. I mean, there's not even a doubt that they're more sensitive and that's because when they give the adjuncts in the vaccines, I mean, I've had kids in college, uh, Ivy league college, like Harvard had to drop out.

[00:54:53] Uh, because like one of them got an HPV vaccine and basically got so sick from it that he couldn't go back to school for a year. Um, [00:55:00] I'm not saying this is common, right. But have I seen it? I absolutely have seen it. And it's a problem in line patients. And by the way, the line patients do not respond to vaccines as well.

[00:55:09] They've shown that when you have Lyme and you have, uh, Ehrlichia, Anaplasma, Anaplasma, specifically, uh, help suppress the immune response, you don't get the same type of antibody response to the vaccine. So what's going to need to be shown with COVID. Is, we've got a lot of Lyme patients in the United States when they get the COVID vaccine, the question will be, will they get as robust, an antibody response and general public?

[00:55:32] I mean, that, that we already know what the flu vaccine, that's not the case. So it's going to something that's going to have to be examined.

[00:55:38] Carl Lanore: [00:55:38] Dr. Horowitz, thank you so much for coming on today. This particular show I think, is going to help a lot of people and access to the book. And thank you for everything that you've done so far in this, in this category.

[00:55:47] Dr. Richard Horowitz, MD: [00:55:47] My pleasure. And just one last word is there's another persistent drug part from Dapsone called disulfiram. We probably have about 150 people on the drug. Uh, dr. Kenneth Leeton are published on it last year. It's also a drug that looks like [00:56:00] it has great potential. So I just wanted to finish with the words of hope for people that for those people that have not tried these newer persister protocols they sell from Dapsone, although they have side effects.

[00:56:10] Um, they definitely do a good job for some resistant patients and you should have hope cause we are making progress.

[00:56:15] Carl Lanore: [00:56:15] Thank you very much dr. Hall, which we'll talk again soon. Okay.

[00:56:19] Dr. Richard Horowitz, MD: [00:56:19] My pleasure.

[00:56:20] Carl Lanore: [00:56:20] We're going to take a quick commercial break. When we come back, I've offered to answer questions. I get a lot of emails, day in and day out about things I say on the show.

[00:56:29] And when we come back, I've got a Q and a, I've got a bunch of questions. Listen listed. Plus if you're watching live and you want to ask me a question, nothing is off topic. Stay tuned. We'll be right back with more super human radio.

[00:56:48] welcome back. Okay. So I promised to do a Q and a today, and that's what I'm doing. And man, did we get a bunch of questions? We got more than I have here, but these were the ones I had time to bring up. The first one [00:57:00] comes from Stephen Kelly. He says, can BFR be used during physical therapy, like during exercise for repairing tendons.

[00:57:09] And the answer is Absa effing lutely. In fact, this is what it was created for, uh, the Japanese scientists that created katsu back in 2006, I think it was because that's when we did the first show about it, they will looking for ways to help people maintain muscle mass during injured States, without loading the muscle.

[00:57:33] This is exactly what you need for tendons. Um, This is exactly what you need for torn tendons or surgically recently repaired tendons like my tricep when I tore it and they had to surgically back on, um, because the BFR blood flow restriction, which was originally called katsu and Japanese K K AI or Kia T S U you can look at [00:58:00] the studies are in pub med and wherever you search for your studies.

[00:58:04] This is what they did. They took, they took people that were injured in physical therapy. And instead of having them do the rudimentary walking and bending and flexing and all that sort of stuff, they took blood pressure cuffs, and they pumped them up to like 180 milligrams of, of millimeters of mercury on the injured leg.

[00:58:30] They had them do things like leg extensions and leg curls and light work like that. Uh, little to no wait. And what they found out was that their muscles grew. They didn't just stay and not shrink. They actually got bigger and they were like, Oh my God, this is like anabolic, anabolic. Excuse me, burping here.

[00:58:51] So. This is the best thing to read Hab. Uh, if you have an injury and you don't want to lose muscle or [00:59:00] strength, this is, this is the way to do it. Really? No, no joke. Um, let's see here. So yes, Andrew Scarborough says yes. What's your opinion of the Oxford COVID-19 vaccine trial, which has reported successful outcomes in a very short period of time.

[00:59:16] And he did post a link to the article. I read about this the other day briefly. And I think for people, first of all, I'm glad England did it. Not us. I really am because if somebody here would have done it, there would've been a political storm. You know, who who's, whose team were they on? And depending on whose team they will on, should we take it seriously or not?

[00:59:39] So I'm actually glad that this came out of England. I think GlaxoSmithKline is involved with it or one of the large pharmaceutical companies. Um, that's based here in the United States. That's also based there. But I don't know Andrew. And I'll tell you why. I'm not waiting for a vaccine. I've never been waiting for a [01:00:00] vaccine.

[01:00:00] I've never thought about a vaccine and I will never get a vaccine. I just won't. Um, there are, there are no reasons to do, to get a vaccine two. Deal with something that I can fix myself. If I get sick, if I got sick tomorrow, I take, Z-Pak take our Allah. I've got plenty of glutathione sitting over here from, from live on labs.

[01:00:28] I've got plenty of vitamin C from live on labs. I would just treat it myself. I would definitely not get a vaccine. Me getting a vaccine is like you break your leg. They, they said it with the cast and you let it heal. And the cast comes off. That's w the right way to treat with a broken leg, the wrong way to treat a broken leg, as you break your leg.

[01:00:52] And instead of putting a cast on the outside, they want to put a rod and screwed into the bones, and then you have to go back for another surgery later on to have the rod [01:01:00] removed. And you don't know if you've got to get an infection and no, you don't need to do that. Just put a cast on the outside. I'm not waiting for a vaccine.

[01:01:07] I'm really not. Interested in the outcome of their vaccine research. That's not my thing. Now, there are people out there who are people out there who really do want a vaccine so that they can have a false sense of protection, because it is a false sense of protection. People get the flu vaccine every year and they get the flu.

[01:01:29] I mean, people get all sorts of vaccines and still get sick. What makes you think. That you won't get a COVID-19 vaccine and not still get COVID-19 the only way you don't get COVID-19 again is the way we did it. With the spam Mitch flow. You let it run through the population. We build her too immunity. It goes away.

[01:01:51] We never needed a vaccine. We lost three quarters of a million people. It's 19, 19, 1918. Over the course of almost two years. [01:02:00] At three outbreaks, we had the initial outbreak and then w second wave in a third wave, 685,000 people in the United States died. We never came up with a vaccine and it's gone and that's really the way it should be handled.

[01:02:17] So I don't know, but I am glad that the UK came up with it. I really am because we had someone in the United States come up with it, then. God forbid, Trump said something good about it, or God forbid, Nancy Pelosi said something good about it. Then you got people like that. That's the problem. The politization the politicization of medicine is just horrible.

[01:02:39] It's horrible politicians. They, in order for politicians to survive, they must divide the population into teams. And they use things that people care about to do. So, and this is sad because we lose when [01:03:00] politicians do that, because you have people that are choosing outcomes based on their political party, telling them as opposed to what really will work for them.

[01:03:09] So that's why I'm glad it happened in Oxford over the UK and not here. Um, Eric Swanee says, ever thought about developing your own line of gym equipment. The market is insane right now. I know you're right. I mean, it's going to be insane for a long time. There's a lot of people who will not go to the gym anymore.

[01:03:28] Not because of COVID, you know, um, I stopped coloring my hair and now Alisa cuts it with a clipper. I used to pay $125 every five weeks to have my hair cut and colored. Because of the shutdown COVID-19 and all that sort of stuff. Um, I stopped coloring my hair. It got good. Right. And it really wasn't so bad and everybody's gone cheat your hair looks good, gray.

[01:03:53] And especially with the tan, you look so good. And I thought, you know, like the worst has happened. Why do I [01:04:00] even need to color my hair anymore? So, I think a lot of people stopped going to the gym, invested in some home gym equipment or walking around their neighborhood, sprint in the Hills, in the neighborhoods or training in the backyard.

[01:04:16] And I don't think they'll ever go back to the gym. I really don't. Now some of us will. I love the gym. I, I like the ritual. I get in the car and I go to the gym right now. I'm going to the gym after work. So I'm going to go after today's show. After I get all my duties done, I go to the gym and train I'm training legs today.

[01:04:31] I'm digging training in the afternoon. I never did that before. I've always trained in the morning. Um, and I love going to the gym. I'm motivated. I train harder. Uh, maybe because I'm a show off maybe because I want someone to pay attention to me. I don't know, you know, it's possible. Mmm. But I think there are a lot of people.

[01:04:52] Who are falling in love with training at home, the simplicity of it not having to go to get caught in traffic and all the other stuff that they [01:05:00] hate about the gym. And I think that those people will start training at home all the time. And I think this market will not go away. We've always had a home, Melissa and I, we have a sauna, we have a couple pieces of cardio equipment.

[01:05:14] We have all sorts of, um, Power block dumbbells power block kettlebells, uh, bans. Uh, we have a bench, excuse me. I have a, uh, an inversion table that I love to stretch my spine with. And. I'd like more room. The next house we go to will have at least three times to four times the size of this room. So we can have maybe a, a Smith machine so we could do squats and stuff like that at home.

[01:05:42] But I think I'll always go to the gym. I just, I don't know. It's community. I go to the gym for the same reason. People go to church. People say they go to church because they love the community of it. To be around friends and talk and, and you know, all that sort of stuff. And I'm, I'm kinda the same way. I, I like going there.

[01:05:58] I like running into people that [01:06:00] I've known for so long. I just, uh, I just enjoy the environment. But yeah, I mean, if I I'm, plus I've got so many projects I'm working on right now. I couldn't imagine taking on another project, trying to come up with a piece of gym equipment, but that's you need to do it, Eric.

[01:06:16] You need to come up with something. Come on, man. Just look at the look at what people need at home to train, to get a real good training session and come up with something. I'll promote it on the show. How's that? The next question comes from my sister Carmela. CSO who lives in Canada. Um, what do you think the future holds for gym?

[01:06:36] The gym business? I like I just said, it's more of a addendum to what we were just talking about. I think gyms will always be out there. And especially with the $9 a month gym memberships, they're always going to be out there. There's a large percentage of people who have gym memberships because of what it means to have a gym membership.

[01:06:58] A lot of them are out of [01:07:00] shape, but they get a gym membership and it's $9 a month. And they're going to do it someday. Just not today. Maybe tomorrow, tomorrow comes well, no, not today, maybe tomorrow. And then tomorrow comes maybe not today and then tomorrow. And they just keep pushing it off. But having a gym membership kind of makes them feel like they've got one foot in the right direction.

[01:07:23] So I think gyms will always be around and I don't think COVID is going to make them go away. I definitely don't think COVID is a, I don't think gyms are a major. Distribution center for COVID at all. I really don't. You know that like our, our governor is saying, well, if the, if the infection rate does, even though the death rate is dropped here in Kentucky, if the infection rate doesn't drop, the next thing we're going to do is close gyms.

[01:07:48] Yeah. It's like, how about trying to figure out, like you got these tracers, now you have these apps. How about trying to figure out how many people. I think they actually caught COVID at the gym before you close the [01:08:00] gym, this would be, giles' be about politicians. I'm sorry to say this, but it's on both sides, Republican Democrat, uh, you know, li whatever, whatever group you are with politicians today.

[01:08:16] Lack any real intelligence. What they have is crowd appeal. People look at a guy and go, man, I'd like to have a beer with him. I think I'll vote for him. That's a stupid reason to vote for somebody. Like when you look at a politician, ask yourself, would I let him babysit my children? Would I give him my checkbook?

[01:08:38] And my bank accounts, would I give him my credit cards? Would I let him live in my house? Because if you can't say affirmatively, yes, I would give this guy my kids' lives. My wife's life. I'd let him manage my bank accounts, everything without complete confidence that he wouldn't bankrupt. You. Kill your children, rape your wife, [01:09:00] anything else, then you shouldn't vote for him because he's running a business.

[01:09:03] It's called your city. It's called your city. But too many people vote for people because they glow. Oh, he seems so nice. I'd love to have a cup of coffee with him. Then have a cup of coffee with them, but don't vote for them. We have to stop that. We really don't. Um, Lynn writes, says. Have you questioned the theory of this pandemic?

[01:09:26] One virus, one disease? No, I haven't. I really haven't. I think that this virus is real. I think it is manufactured in China. I think the Chinese knew they will letting it loose. I think these things, I don't talk about it often, but since you've asked, I think China had a mission to completely stop our country from dominating them because we just started to dominate them.

[01:09:50] We just started to dominate them. We will put in the screws to them and people, whenever I say this to people in confidence, they say, well, yeah, but [01:10:00] why would they kill the Italians? Well, why wouldn't they, they killed their own people. The Chinese have killed 40,000 of their own people for certain missions that they were on.

[01:10:10] So why would they care about killing the Italians and the Scandinavians and every of the population. In fact, that just makes it look like they weren't trying to get to us. But I believe that this virus is real. I'm not a flat earth. I believe that there are people dying from this virus. I know someone who just died from it.

[01:10:30] Um, I believe that it was created in a lab and you know, and more politicians should be pissed off about that. Like, why aren't any of our politicians talking about China making this right. They made it, they created, there's a group of Chinese scientists that published a paper just a month and a half after the virus was widespread.

[01:10:54] And they showed that it was made in that lab in Wu Han. And it was released [01:11:00] from that lab and Wu Han. And now we just have to debate whether it was an accident or on purpose, but it doesn't matter in this country here. If I shoot you with a gun and I meant to do it. It's premeditated. If I didn't mean to do it, it's manslaughter, but I still killed you and it's still punishable.

[01:11:20] It's still punishable. So I think that we really need to look at what we need to do to, to square things. Who's up with China, but yeah, and I, I really do think it's yeah, it's one virus, one disease and, and people are just profiting from it or taking advantage of it for their own personal gain, whatever that may be.

[01:11:42] Cal can earn shield says, why are people stupid? Well, you know, it's funny. I wasn't going to put this up because I know it's kind of a rhetorical Carol, but the reality is people are only stupid when they don't agree with us. Right. So is it really stupidity? It's really [01:12:00] a difference. My opinion in this world today.

[01:12:01] If you don't agree with me, you're stupid. If I don't agree with you, I'm stupid now. There is a lack of critical thinking and deductive reasoning in this population. And it will be the end of humanity. Someday. We will die because people make decisions based on feelings. Instead of facts, make decisions based on supporting the team and, and towing the line versus what's good for them and the population.

[01:12:31] We have a lot of people in population today that do things that are not in their own best interest. It's like, I've used this analogy before and in conversations. It's like, if you and I are on a cruise ship and we were sitting at dinner the other night and the captain just completely disrespected us.

[01:12:50] So we sit down and we go, okay, you know, we're going to do, we're going to sink this F and ship tonight when everybody's asleep, we're going to sink it. We're going to fix that cap. We're going to sink the ship, but wait a minute. We're on the [01:13:00] ship too. We're going to die too. Yeah. Who cares? We're going to sink the ship anyway.

[01:13:03] That's an illustration of people who do things that are not in their own best interests. We have people that actually think that way. I know that sounds like a far stretch, but it's not. We have people that. Do stupid stuff. Just so there appears will rally them. Oh, yay. You're the best. Meanwhile, they're dying and their friends are dying too at the same time.

[01:13:25] And that's really the problem. It's not so much that people are stupid as much as they lack critical thinking and deductive reasoning. And they do things viscerally how it feels. It'll just feel so good to do this. I'll be honored by my friends. Yeah. But you're going to die. Look at suicide bombers. Every day, sidebar I'll bet money.

[01:13:45] I'll bet you anything like, like when they get tapped on the shoulder and they're told, okay, it's your turn. You're going to put the vest on tonight. You're going to walk into this crowd. I don't go in there going, Oh, this is so great. I can't wait to blow myself up. I'm going to go to heaven. They start having doubts.

[01:13:58] They think, Oh my God, [01:14:00] like I'm going to die. I don't want to die it. You know, it's, it's ingrained in us on a cellular level to stay alive. So you have to really have a mental illness. If you can. Disconnect that evolutionary drive to stay alive and say, no, it's more important that I blow myself up in all these people because of the mission.

[01:14:20] So that's the problem today. Lack of critical thinking and, uh, and, and a lack of deductive reasoning. Uh, we're going to answer one more question. We're going to take a break after that. Oscar J Oscar, what is the most optimal body fat percentage for natural testosterone production, not a range eight to 20%, but an Optum that can't be answered.

[01:14:43] That's a loaded question. It's different for everybody. There are people that can be at 2% body fat and they're fine. And then there's other people, especially women. When they get down in those low body fat ranges, they stopped producing any hormones. Um, I think [01:15:00] 10% body fat happens to be an ideal place for people who are athletic, but also want to be strong enough to fight off a disease and a long hospital stay.

[01:15:11] I think when you start getting under 10% body fat, especially with women, you start to see em, a Mario, you start to see that they lose their period. Um, I think. Fat intake in the diet is more important. Quite frankly, I think you could be at an ultra low body fat level, but if you're eating enough fat every day still produce testosterone.

[01:15:39] I feel strongly about that. There is a point where that ends, but to me, I think 10% is the magic number. I really, really don't. Um, we're going to take a less commercial break. I've got like five more questions to answer. I'll do my best to answer them quickly. Stay tuned. We'll be right back.

[01:16:06] [01:16:00] the next question comes live from an audience member, Tommy D he says, uh, are there any new research chemicals that you know of that have been shown effectively for sleep? I try to go the natural route as much as possible, but my shift work makes it difficult, not to resort to something like heavy hitters.

[01:16:29] I looked at possibly ed is alum a use sparingly, or what are your thoughts? I actually think. I actually think that defended Butte is a better choice. I really don't a phenom. Butte is natural. If you use it for sleep, it's not habit forming. Uh, Anthony Robertson. I had long discussions about this years ago.

[01:16:50] A lot of people talk about Febu being habit forming. That's only when you use it for social anxiety, if you're using it and then you're going out and hanging out. But. Even as little as [01:17:00] 400 milligrams, 300 milligrams of, of phenom Butte, uh, three or four milligrams, uh, even as much as 10 milligrams of, of, uh, melatonin is magic for sleep.

[01:17:11] But the problem is the FDA just made everybody take fender Butte out of there. And you know, one of the greatest sleep formulas used to be fade out by red con one. But then they had to change a formula because the FDA said, Oh, you can't use fender Butte anymore. And for me it doesn't work anymore. Just doesn't.

[01:17:35] Um, there was also a pharmacy. That I met at the international peptide society that was making a, uh, uh, a product that had phenom food in it. And the FDA made them stop selling it. They were selling it through doctors. If you can get your hands on fender Butte, I would say that's the best. And I've used it.

[01:17:55] It's better than benzodiazepines. Um, he says, I use [01:18:00] abuse two times a week, a thousand milligrams, very effective. The cut it back. That's a lot. That's a large dose. You'll get the same effect from two to 400 milligrams and add in, uh, just a little bit of a, of a melatonin. Cut it back. That's a pretty high, you know, that's a docent.

[01:18:19] It makes me snore. And I only snore when I'm like knocked out, like Quaalude knocked out. So I think that's a high dose personally. So there you go. Yeah. I would go with fan of you. Absolutely. Okay. Let's see you. The next question is,

[01:18:39] so this question comes from rehung Hong. I hope I'm pronouncing that right. Um, the best time to do stretching before, during or after workouts, I say after, and here's why there's a large debate on whether or not stretching before working out makes you weaker, makes you more prone to injury, blah, blah, blah.

[01:18:59] But what we [01:19:00] learned from research, if building muscle is important to you, that stretching after a workout and especially stretching under a load. So for instance of your training chest, you've done all your chest sets. Now the finisher is you grab 200 pound dumbbells. You get laid down on the bench. You let the weight sink and you focus on breathing and allowing your pec muscles to stretch.

[01:19:26] Let the weight pull you apart. Heart. Literally let that happen. Just let it go. You'll see your muscles explode in a couple months. You'll see a new growth in your muscles that you've never seen before, because. Stretching post-workout and especially stretching under a load has been shown to increase androgen receptor, bio Genesis, and the more androgen receptors you have in the muscle tissue, the more muscle fibers you can activate.

[01:19:52] And the more anabolic, the more the effects of anabolics are conveyed to the muscle. [01:20:00] So I'm a huge fan of post-workout stretching. The other thing is. We all know that after you train that's when you're the tightest, your muscles all tweaked, because you've been there pumped and that's the time to stretch.

[01:20:15] You're going to get the most out of a stretch then, because the muscles don't want to stretch. You gotta be careful. Now you don't do stupid stuff where you got to tear a muscle, but. You can even get into a pushup movement, get all the way down, down where your chest is touching the floor and just let your body sink get between two benches and let your body sink and open your chest up.

[01:20:38] You can do that for your shoulders. Like after training shoulders, grab two heavy dumbbells and do farmer's walks. It's pulling the muscles out of the socket. It's pulling the sockets open. The muscles are trying to resist it. The muscles are stretching. Your traps is stretching. I have proud trap because of stretching.

[01:20:55] From dead lifting from pulling that bar and everything just wants to [01:21:00] come apart and it's just holding itself together. So I'm a huge fan of post-workout stretching too. We have another question here, a live one. Let's see what it is.

[01:21:16] Okay. He's going to give it a shot. We also have a question for some reason, it didn't show up and I don't know why, but I'm going to read it from my phone. Bridget McCarter says weird question, but what can the scent of someone's sweat tell you about their health? For example, a vinegary scent or more of a spice scent?

[01:21:37] It could tell you a lot, actually. So, um, when I was eating way too much protein after I would train my shirts, literally smelled like ammonia and that's because I was eating way too much protein. I had to add glutamine and glycine supplementation and it went away. But I also know that people who suffer from neurological [01:22:00] disorders, they have a certain scent to that their body odor.

[01:22:03] It's a very rank strong. Yeah. You know? Um, well, my sister developed Parkinson's disease. Her body odor changed. I remember it. Um, I think there's something to that. There's also something to it from meeting we know from evolution that women can literally smell what they need to create a healthy child in a man sent in his sweat.

[01:22:33] And when they kiss, she can taste it. Now it's not like they know it's not like they go, Oh yeah, that's the guy won. They're just attracted. They're attracted. So we know that scent does have a role. And I definitely agree with you that when people get sick, their scent will change. Also certain medications will make, uh, their sweat change as well.

[01:22:59] Uh, the next [01:23:00] question comes from bill war room. Taco bell taco is the guy who's helping me with my diet right now, so I can grow more muscle and get lean. What's your personal opinion of GW 51 five one six. It's a, it's a Psalm a, it was created by a GlaxoSmithKline. Excuse me, along with another company who was a joint venture of Lee Gand pharmaceuticals or something like that.

[01:23:28] And it was originally developed to treat metabolic disorders. It was designed to help manage blood sugar dyslipidemia and things like that for people with type two diabetes. And it's a P par, uh, Delta agonist and all people are Delta agonists have the ability to, to lower blood sugar, lower blood lipids.

[01:23:58] So it's also seen to [01:24:00] be therapeutic. So here's something interesting that nobody will tell you about it. The molecule itself is considered a failure rate while it seems to activate the retinoid X receptor, which is what vitamin a activates and has a role in. In anabolic effects, believe it or not because it increases hyperplasia and satellite cell differentiation, a lot sort of stuff.

[01:24:32] It actually blocks the estrogen receptor. They later are called anti androgens that you'll find them in air fresheners. You'll find them in plastic. Yeah, plasticizers. They, they make plastic flexible and stretching. They like the gluten of plastics actually. Um, we did a show in 2006 on Fe lates, anti androgens and how they're feminizing, [01:25:00] uh, babies and, and young boys, because they have a greater affinity to the androgen receptor than some sex steroids.

[01:25:09] And they block the activation. Of the Andrew receptor by testosterone and DHT and DHA and all those other androgens. And so they're horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible, um, GW 51 five one six is actually technically a failure rate and. It was originally researched, as I said, for metabolic disorders, not for performance enhancement.

[01:25:38] And the reason that Glaxo dropped that is because it caused cancer and fairly low doses. I stopped right there. It's like, why, why would I even want to mess with this? I know it's supposed to make people perform better, increased energy output, increased endurance, all that stuff. We see a lot of professional athletes testing [01:26:00] positive for it today.

[01:26:03] But, you know, professional athletes will do something. That's going to kill them just to win a gold medal. They don't care. They can't see past that gold medal. Like if you tell them how great when you're 40 and 50, you're going to be so sick. They don't care. Well, I get a gold medal now. Yeah. Okay. I'll I'll do that then.

[01:26:18] Um, I wouldn't use it, you know, technically it's not a Psalm, it's not a selective androgen receptor modulator. It's actually an androgen blocking agent. Technically look up the lakes, go to pub med and put the word failure. P H T H L a T E S and androgen and the, and the word anti androgen you'll find studies on it.

[01:26:45] They lead to anti androgens. They stop the effects of testosterone. They don't, they don't help it. The other thing, um, with it is we already have SARMs that we know about. So [01:27:00] technically trend bologne is a Psalm. It only activate certain portions of the androgen receptor, certain mosaics of the Andreessen.

[01:27:12] That's what Psalm is it doesn't activate the entire Andrea except Andrea, except it looks like an upside down mushroom and the engine docks in it, and it then activates everything. It touches trend bologne is a very powerful androgen. A selective androgen receptor later. So we already have drugs that will build crazy muscle and strength that, uh, technically SARMs that nobody wants to call, sorry, maybe we renamed trend.

[01:27:40] And, uh, after a Psalm T six Oh six, five and sailed is the new injectable Psalm. It's amazing. You know, it'll get you ripped and make you stronger and give you the night sweats and all that sort of stuff. And, and people buy it. Um, I'm not crazy about these new SARMs. Anyway, I just feel like [01:28:00] testosterone Masteron trend.

[01:28:03] We have things that selectively activate, uh, Andrea receptors, well, testosterone activates the whole thing, but, you know, master on and, and, and, and, um, I'm trying to think of some of the other ones. Trend bologne is a couple of others. They are already selective Andrew receptor modulators. Why fool with this unknown stuff that, that clearly.

[01:28:23] The pharmaceutical industry doesn't abandon anything. Basically taking these products is like dumpster diving and in big pharma, it's like, these are the things they threw away. They don't that this is an industry that doesn't throw anything away. Like they invest the money. It was in phase one, it went into phase two trials in the phase two trials is when they saw that as little as two milligrams.

[01:28:48] Akilah Graham caused kidney tumors, liver tumors, and something else. I want to say it was in the spleen, [01:29:00] like, okay. So it's like big pharma is all about making billions of dollars. They threw this away bodybuilders and athletes founded like, Oh, we found gold. No, you found crap. You found something that they said was not good because it caused bad outcomes.

[01:29:17] And because it conveys a moderate performance enhancing  effect, it's an ergogenic you're willing to take it. I'm not, I'm not. Um, this is an interesting question. This one comes from Kirkland where Letty, he says, do you predict this compound? I am 15 will pan out to be a viable alternative to DNP. Devil's advocate.

[01:29:38] The short half life has pros and cons. Okay. For those who don't know what DNP is, DNP is a powerful mitochondrial on coupler. It's actually an industrial solvent. Think about, I don't know, you know, um, paint thinner, you know, like I'm sure paint, enroll make you lose weight by the way, if you start drinking [01:30:00] it.

[01:30:00] So DNP has killed people. It's caused them to completely overheat. Uh, and die. And there's not, once you take it to too large of a dose, and we're talking about micrograms of the doses. Uh, once you take two of a dose, they can't save you. They could put you in an ice bath. They can't save you. You cook yourself from the inside out, but as a mitochondria, okay.

[01:30:22] It wasn't the mitochondria to have to work harder. To do the same amount of work. So you literally sweat, you're walking up the stairs, it's difficult. And so you're, you're burning more calories for things that you do on a day in and day out basis. And so. Bam 15 is supposed to be a less harmful mitochondrial and coupler like DNP because it has a very short half life.

[01:30:49] So if you take too large of a dose, it'll wear off before you actually die from it. Once again, kind of like the discussion I just had with bill, we already have an [01:31:00] amazing mitochondrial and coupler that our body likes it's called thyroid hormone. Why take any of these foreign chemicals that we don't even know what the horrible effects are.

[01:31:12] Just get some T3 from a Mexican pharmacy and start taking some T3 every single day and watch your body fat go away. Don't take too much because they'll eat up your muscles too, which I'm sure DMP will as well. And bam, 15. But like why fool around with chemicals? Oh, we found an alternative to, to DNP. I never used the MP.

[01:31:34] I use plenty of T3, Cytomel. I used to buy that stuff by the bottles from Mexico helped me shed a lot of body fat over the course of years. And. My body likes thyroid hormone. I have a thyroid I'm not fooling around with some sort of foreign chemical that was originally an industrial solvent and somebody saw mice drinking it.

[01:31:56] And all of a sudden they lost a lot of fat and they went, Oh, this is great. Maybe we can use this too. [01:32:00] No, I don't. I don't care about bam 15 either. I didn't care about DNP. I was never stupid enough to use it. And I, and I used that word specifically. You're you're not a critical thinker. If you're taking something like that, just to lose body fat, you lack.

[01:32:13] Any real, um, discipline and you're trying to make up with it might make up for it with a very, very dangerous chemical, very dangerous chemical. So you want to lose some body fat Kirk order, some Cytomel from a Mexican pharmacy and start taking some micrograms extra day. That's it. You'll lose it. Take your time.

[01:32:36] It all takes longer than you think it's going to, but that'll work. All right. That's it for today. Thank you for asking your questions, helping me fill this a extra hour. And, um, tomorrow we're going to tell you how to get a free bottle of mass design from BiOptimizers. If you can tune in tomorrow, it looks like we have one more question or comment.

[01:32:54] Let's see what it is.

[01:32:58] Did I ever use [01:33:00] GHB Nitin? Um, I interviewed Derek Anthony before he died. And I know a lot of people who took GHB and they all ended up with what looked like multiple sclerosis. Now it could be because the GHB was bootleg, they were made it in somebody's backyard or somebody's bad tub. And it had stuff in it that was poison.

[01:33:22] Uh, they're used to, you used to be able to buy GHB over the counter under the name. I want to say blue rhino, um, GHB scares me a little bit. It does. Um, I think that it, I think it has some really harmful side effects. I think it destroys people's livers, whether that's because of the adulteration when they make it.

[01:33:47] Yeah. I've never done it. And I, uh, and I wouldn't. I really wouldn't I'd stay away from that too. Definitely. Phenom Butte, it's safe. It's effective. And try tapering your doses down. [01:34:00] Try 200 milligrams, 300 minutes. You don't want to be knocked out. You want to fall asleep, gem gently and stay asleep. You can do that with two to 400 milligrams.

[01:34:11] Very, very easily. You don't need a gram. That's it. See you tomorrow. Thanks for watching today and listening, please share today's show because there's a lot of people out there with Lyme disease. That will be helped by this show today. See you tomorrow. [01:35:00] .