[00:00:00] Carl Lanore: [00:00:00] hey, Hey, welcome back to another episode of superhuman radio. Today is August 5th, 2020. We're going to be talking about muscle today, the entire show. We're going to have dr. Hypertrophy on the show with us another, uh, then Brad shown, uh, Schoenfeld. And, uh, did I say something? What did I just say? Yeah. Okay.

[00:00:18] Sorry about that. I was thinking of my dentist and, uh, and then yeah, later in the show, we're going to talk about a study that was just published at McMaster's university. It looks at 141 genes. That may be responsible for muscle wasting. Especially as we age, before we get started, of course I have to thank our title sponsor and that is legendary foods.

[00:00:38] You can go to eat legendary.com and use the code. SHR tend to save 10% of all of their amazing products. If you are a low carb guy like me or your kedo, you'll find everything you want. Uh, at legendary foods, eat legendary.com. SHR 10, save 10% off. I have to dedicate today's show. To a listener in [00:01:00] South Africa, his name is Andre clean, Hans, excuse me.

[00:01:03] He lives in Pretoria, South Africa. He's turning 55 tomorrow on August 6th, he's legally blind. And because of that, he wasn't expected to achieve much in life, but having access to information and having a will of steel has allowed him to prove the naysayers wrong. He is a registered physical therapist.

[00:01:23] He holds a master's degree in information technology. Uh, on the sports front, he has represented his country of South Africa and power lifting. He managed to win a world championship in Colorado Springs in 1995. Uh, he recently competed in the Inba natural bodybuilding world championship in San Diego in 2014, where he plays six, excuse me, uh, in the master's division, his keen interest.

[00:01:50] In nutrition and supplementation has led him to become a certified ISA nutritional specialist. And during 2019, he wishes to further his [00:02:00] studies in this field. Happy birthday, Andre. Thank you for being a fan of the show. Thank you for being a true superhuman. So there you go. And now without further delay, the reason we're here today is dr.

[00:02:12] Brad Schoenfeld. Are you doing man long time? Yeah, it's been awhile. Um, You know, it's amazing because I feel, I feel this real strong sense of fondness for you and it, and we don't do a lot of shows, but we've been going on for 14 years now. And, um, it's amazing to me, how many professional athletes pay attention to what you do?

[00:02:38] Now, I mean, you know, serious physique, uh, and strength, uh, athletes who, who pay attention to what you do, because you are really the only person out there that is working hard on discovering the most efficient way to build muscle. And let's face it. None of us want to spend any more time in the gym than we have to.

[00:02:59] And it's [00:03:00] it. It just fascinates me because, uh, you, you risen to the top very, very quickly because of all of your work and I commend you for that. It's fantastic.

[00:03:08] Dr. Brad Schoenfeld, PhD: [00:03:08] Well, I thank you, Carl. I want to defer though and say there's a lot of very good researchers out there, but I do think that might. Background, you know, I, you know, but many who don't, I was a personal trainer for many years before I became a researcher educator.

[00:03:24] And that really has driven my research focus. And I would certainly attribute my, uh, what I do to what the curiosities that I got and the insights that I got from being a practitioner.

[00:03:37] Carl Lanore: [00:03:37] Right. Right. So you had published a book. This is the second edition of your book. It's called the science and development of muscle hypertrophy.

[00:03:44] Um, you it's available at Amazon to those who want to go get it. You really put a much finer point on, uh, the process of building muscle and you include a lot of things in this book. That I wasn't prepared for you to [00:04:00] include a, but obviously in order to stay current, you, you got, you can't ignore some of these things.

[00:04:06] We're going to talk more about them, but, you know, modulating M torn MPK with lots of drugs. Nowadays, you do hit myostatin again in this, uh, in this discussion, uh, by the way, I eat myostatin, no beef from piedmontese.com. They're a sponsor of the show. Um, But you really kind of dive deep into a, into a lot of stuff that I think a lot of people ignore when they talk about building muscle, but you can't ignore it because you can't build muscle in the current environment without taking into account some of these, uh, these actors, so to speak that people are using.

[00:04:39] Yeah.

[00:04:40] Dr. Brad Schoenfeld, PhD: [00:04:40] Yeah. I want to. Start off by saying, this is a textbook. It is not a, so this is not like you're like bathroom reading material, you know, you're a muscle rag. So this really delves into the science, as the name applies science, it's in development. And I get really deep into the molecular mechanisms or at the intracellular [00:05:00] level.

[00:05:00] Like you're talking about with enzymes, such as mTOR and the NPK, uh, myokine such as myostatin your interleukins, et cetera. And, uh, but it also gets into a lot of practical stuff as well. So it builds from basically the idea of the book and the concept of the book is to build from the, uh, smallest molecular level, all the way up to the practical implications of the resistance training variables that we know.

[00:05:24] But yeah, if you. Yeah, having an understanding, at least a good general understanding of the mechanisms really has, uh, it can drive your programming focus and it allows you to understand what really makes muscles grow and thus can enhance your ability to properly carry out.

[00:05:45] Carl Lanore: [00:05:45] So before we talk about what makes muscle grow, how do you assess whether or not muscle is growing or not?

[00:05:50] I mean, is it enough just to look in the mirror because don't, we have a, post-training a DEMA effect that may lie to us and we go, wow, I'm getting so big. But a couple of days [00:06:00] later, if you don't keep training you, you're not that big.

[00:06:03] Dr. Brad Schoenfeld, PhD: [00:06:03] Yeah. You're not gonna, you certainly shouldn't be. Uh, looking in the mirror, you can look in the mirror, but not to measure it.

[00:06:10] Your muscle building progress over time. You'd want to, you said you're going to have generally a pump. Uh, it's in the public fact is due to a demon and muscle, uh, hydration, water within muscle. And if you're looking at, if you want to ultimately see what your. Muscle building results are chronically over time.

[00:06:32] You don't want to wait a couple of days. It's usually 48 hours would be a good general or even 24. It depends upon what you're doing, but certainly possible 48 hours with you could a yard stick there, and that would give you a better. Gauge now looking in the mirror, most people are not going to be able to effectively gauge their own growth because you see yourself every day.

[00:06:54] So if you're looking to suffer every day, seeing the changes that happened to you, you're not remembering which you looked like two months [00:07:00] ago, three months ago, she wanted to get more objective measures actually in the book, I discuss all the objective measures. The problem. This is that most of them are beyond the.

[00:07:10] Scope of what most people can do. I mean, a DEXA would be a very nice way. Let's say monthly DEXA tests would be a very nice way to over time, see your progress. But firstly, you have to get to the DEXA place and. It's not a Zuora, definitely expensive, but you're talking anywhere between 50 to 75 to a hundred dollars, depending upon where you're located.

[00:07:33] Uh, and the specific, uh, lab that you're going to go to. So is cost. I mean, you can get skin folds, which would be kind of the most efficient skin falls and circumference will be kind of the, the budget way to go about it. The problem with that would be. You're not going to do that to yourself. It's going to be very hard to skin fold yourself from the proper places.

[00:07:55] It would be.

[00:07:56] Carl Lanore: [00:07:56] Yes. Someone has to do that for you. Somebody has to

[00:07:58] Dr. Brad Schoenfeld, PhD: [00:07:58] do. And the [00:08:00] problem is, is that proficiency really matters and they test like that. So, I mean, I've seen like gyms, you go to a gym and they'll take your body fat. And I mean, I'll look at a person and say, you know what? You're. You're 25%, but they're, they're getting a skin folded at 8% body fat.

[00:08:15] And I'm looking at, it was like,

[00:08:21] you can eyeball better. So limitations to that. But objective measures, if you really want to get a good gauge as to how you're progressing, you want to have good objective measures.

[00:08:32] Carl Lanore: [00:08:32] One of the things that I was reminded about. By looking through your book and preparation for the show. Cause I was looking for what had been added since last time.

[00:08:43] And what I was reminded about were the actual variables that we have at our disposal to effectively maintain muscle growth. You know, we hear about people hitting play toes and we know. From an evolutionary perspective, that body is adaptive. It's it's [00:09:00] supposed to get used to things because it's trying to remain.

[00:09:04] It's trying to just simply remain growing muscle is, uh, is something from an evolutionary perspective that isn't really of great value to us because it's metabolically expensive tissue. Now, when now we have to go find more food. And so there's always this down pressure and myostatin is an example, but.

[00:09:22] We hear about people hitting plateaus. And then when I look at the variables, you know, volume frequency, load, uh, exercise, selection, muscle type, uh, uh, rest intervals, rep duration, exercise, order range of motion, intensity effort, two things came to mind. The first one was. This is an amazing palette that we have available to us when we recognize that these are all the colors in the palette, the other one was most of us do these things by accident, not on purpose.

[00:09:51] You know, we get tired, we shorten up our rep range. We don't realize that that's an effective thing. We, we want to damn ourselves, but maybe it's not such [00:10:00] a bad thing.

[00:10:02] Dr. Brad Schoenfeld, PhD: [00:10:02] Well, I think having a degree of intuition and your training is a very important, uh, aspect, um, There's a, I think some decent science behind, uh, using a regular it's called water regulations, but what regulatory concepts to help drive your program.

[00:10:22] And I think if you're, if you're discounts, cause we have to be, if you're a beginner, you're not going to have good intuition in that regard. So you need a more formal structure, but once you have gotten to a certain level of training, you need to get. Uh, in tune with your body and you need to listen to your body.

[00:10:40] You cannot, you can follow a structured program, but if you're not willing and able, willing as part of it, cause some people just are so focused on pushing through no matter what it wants them, but also if you're not able to. Uh, understand how your body's responding and make adjustments along those lines.

[00:10:58] You're, you're going to be shortchanging [00:11:00] yourself and we can only, so one of the things, and I think this is a really important concept that it's just so overlooked. Uh, research is never going to tell you what to do. Research provides you with general guidelines for training training is highly edited. Uh, there were, when I do a study, there's a space spectrum of inter individual differences that people are going to experience has never clustered in a small everyone's right around that mean you're going to see some people getting no results.

[00:11:29] And some people are getting 20% growth in a given muscle, and it can vary between muscles and individuals. So. Well, you need to figure out what works best for you. That is an intuitive process over time, and it's intuitive in a certain aspect, but also you need to use, um, logical reasoning to, to accomplish that.

[00:11:49] But again, if you, no one is going to be able to tell you how you feel in a certain day only you can assess that. And if you're feeling run down. You should be taking time [00:12:00] off. Uh, you, you don't necessarily have, if you're scheduling a four day a week training routine, and on that fourth day, you're trashed.

[00:12:08] Doesn't mean because you have that schedule and you should be training in that kind of sex. You need to listen to your body and take time off.

[00:12:15] Carl Lanore: [00:12:15] You know, what frustrates me too, the idea that everything has to be done in seven days, you know, I made some of my greatest strength gains, ignoring the weekly pattern and just doing one day on two days off.

[00:12:27] And so maybe one week, uh, I trained a particular body part once a, maybe I trained at the point was. These are, these are constructs that really have no place. We, we, we say, Oh no, you've got to do three sets of everything. Oh no, you've got to, you got to train, you know, do everything you need to hit every body part in one week.

[00:12:48] That's not true. Is it? No

[00:12:50] Dr. Brad Schoenfeld, PhD: [00:12:50] a week is an arbitrary unit. So ultimately progress happens over time. Whether that's a week, a month, nine days, 10, I mean, there's no [00:13:00] exactly there, there's no prescribed formula that she would use for what your arbitrary unit would be. And, uh, ultimately, like I said, you need to pick up whatever it is a week is fine.

[00:13:10] It's not presented wrong with it, but it's, it doesn't have to, you can do it over. Like you said, a three day ongoing three day periods, 10 day periods. But within that structure, even if you're a Jew, if you do one day, one day on two days off, and on that fourth day, you're coming back and you're still trashed.

[00:13:28] They go to a fifth day. Again, nothing says you must come in and there is no cookie cutter formula that should be dictating your training

[00:13:37] Carl Lanore: [00:13:37] early on. When you came on the show, um, you espoused an approach to training. That really was very logical to me. And, and maybe. That's why it resonated with me, but you know, you train with all the heavyweight low rep it's up front, and then as you become less energetic from this, the work yeah.

[00:13:58] You start to shift to lighter weights and [00:14:00] doing higher reps. So you're actually. Doing everything in that whole continuum, you know, people argue eight Oh five times five is the way to go. No eight reps is the way to go. And the way you espoused was no, you do it all. You just that you do it. You do it the same way you would drive a car.

[00:14:16] You're not going to start off with fifth gear. You're going to start off in first. And as the cog gradually increases inertia, you shift to second and third and fourth. And so do you still. Feel that's an appropriate way to train, you know, get all the heavy, low rep stuff out of the way up front. And then as you, your, your central nervous system and peripheral nervous system becomes tax start moving to lighter weights, higher reps so that you have the entire continuum of training.

[00:14:41] Dr. Brad Schoenfeld, PhD: [00:14:41] Um, I think that is one way. I mean, I think there's multiple ways to accomplish it. I do think that for if your goal is I purchase there is benefits to training across the spectrum of repetition ranges. How that ultimately is. Put into practice. Uh, my, my favorite phrase is it [00:15:00] depends on any applied topic because we, we understand the concepts.

[00:15:03] People can make gains on many different levels in many different ways, in terms of the structure of it. And ultimately it depends upon individual factors, preferences, but I mean, I can give you a multiple, I can say that. Uh, doing, uh, compound heavy work. Oh, with your, let's say pre weighed X. So you might do five reps with your squats.

[00:15:26] Let's say you're doing a leg workout. You five reps, five RM or five reps for squats, 10 reps for your leg press, and then 15 reps for your leg extension. So that you're covering that within the same session. You could do a heavy, you could do a daily undulating periodization where we have every day moderate.

[00:15:42] They liked it. You can have blocks of training. I wrote a book on this concept of written books on using different several different concepts, but one of them was called the max muscle plan where it had a strength block and then a, a, an a. Metabolic type and then a [00:16:00] hypertrophy type clockwork, basically, that's it.

[00:16:02] The star program that I've used for competitive bodybuilders, which looks to PQ PK, an athlete bodybuilding athlete at a given point. So again, it really would depend, I think there was a lot of viable options, but certainly that is one of them.

[00:16:17] Carl Lanore: [00:16:17] Are you a believer that age plays a role in how you should train?

[00:16:21] You know, I'm 62 now. I've, I've suffered a lot of injuries. I've had my share of surgeries. I've pushed my body. I don't really have a lot to prove anymore, but I still want to be able to train as heavy as I can. Am I wide or should I be going? Okay. You know, I'll leave that for the young guys. I need to back off now.

[00:16:39] Dr. Brad Schoenfeld, PhD: [00:16:39] So I would never give a one size fits all a prescription for that. I can give you general again, research provides general guidelines and that's all you can do. So when you're asking a question about age, you have to look at chronological age bros, Viola versus biological age. So chronological, you might be 62, but [00:17:00] biological you're probably 20 years younger.

[00:17:02] Uh, now maybe some of your joints are biologically 70 or something. You know, you've been training for a long time. That generally has built up a lot of credibility if you will, a lot. So you're going to be able to do things that other people that are 62 would be trashed by. Um, but as a general rule, as you get older, there's going to be a, you're going to have issue osteoarthritic issues.

[00:17:26] So this can be Highland, cartilage breakdown. That's going to happen to which. Generally speaking, I, uh, tell people to back off somewhat now, heavy a relative term. Uh, so you might not be doing probably. Not even some people might still want to, but generally I'd say back away from your one arms, two arms, maybe even three hours, but then four and five, which is still a pretty heavy, low, a low rep load, I think could be viable.

[00:17:54] But if you have severe arthritis or osteoarthritis or even moderate, which is bothering you, that's where you [00:18:00] have to kind of be in tune with your body and say, you know what? That doesn't work. Uh, and is it going to make huge difference? Isn't your physique? No, not really. Uh, could it benefit you? Yeah, but if you're not bodybuilding or if you're not being a super competitive athlete, it's probably not going to be meaningful.

[00:18:17] And then there's other factors. It's true. So recovery ability tends to go down with age now with this of course is going to be individual as well, but there's just certain things that happen to the body that. Regardless, you're not going to perform the way you did at 60, as you did when you were 25 smart,

[00:18:36] Carl Lanore: [00:18:36] unless you're hormonally optimized, right.

[00:18:38] I've been on testosterone since 2007. I use peptides. Um, for, for a long time, I use growth hormone. I've moved to secrete a Gog type peptides, which we're gonna talk about. Uh, MGF a little bit later, you know, so I think that maybe gives me a little bit of an edge. For recovery.

[00:18:54] Dr. Brad Schoenfeld, PhD: [00:18:54] Yeah. It'll give you an edge, but if you're at saying now, well, that makes, so [00:19:00] this is stuff that has never been studied.

[00:19:02] So it was the guy that's on gear at 68 years old going to be as good as a 25 year old that's Natty. Um, I can't answer that, but will it give you an edge? Yes. Uh, I would still think that there would be recovery related issues that probably. Uh, you can, you can curtail some of those, but I'm not sure you can fully do away with them.

[00:19:24] But again, that's where, that's where again, these general guidelines come in. So generally I'd say you're going to need more recovery time. Generally. You're not going to be able to handle as much volume as you go on. And part of that has to do with joints as well. But, uh, those were all things that you need to be in tune with your body and we can give guidelines.

[00:19:42] And then you have to take that anyone who's in your. A situation would have to take that and see how you respond.

[00:19:49] Carl Lanore: [00:19:49] So how about advanced techniques, you know, um, negatives and drop sets and all that, and even BFR, um, which I would consider an advanced technique nowadays because [00:20:00] you're, you're taking some sort of a apparatus and you're actually increasing the stress on the muscle from, uh, typically lighter weight.

[00:20:07] Um,

[00:20:08] Dr. Brad Schoenfeld, PhD: [00:20:08] Should these be used

[00:20:09] Carl Lanore: [00:20:09] sparingly. Is there some evidence now that, you know, we don't have to be so afraid of heavy negative. They're not really doing that much damage. I did a show recently about negatives, um, with elderly people and, and how it, by, by doing negatives, they actually were, uh, less at risk of, of injury and muscle growth was.

[00:20:33] Was faster. And they kind of looked at the muscle they biopsy and they say, you know, there's not the damage we think is happening in, in muscle from negatives. Do you think that we have to be sparing with advanced techniques?

[00:20:44] Dr. Brad Schoenfeld, PhD: [00:20:44] So it depends how you integrate them into the, uh, into a session. One thing the body does.

[00:20:48] So if you're going to do, let's say. Negatives in one session, you're going to tend to get a lot of muscle damage, but there's something called a repeated bad effect that if you keep doing them over and over repeatedly, [00:21:00] uh, that dissipates substantially, uh, if the negatives are for higher repetition. So if the weight is heavier, the negatives are going to tend to be more damaging.

[00:21:10] That's what the majority of the research shows as opposed to doing a lighter load negatives, where there's not as much force on momentum action. Um, I do tend to think that especially if you're using the super negatives, the super maximum negatives that, uh, they are, they tend to be taxing neurally even so in the system and generally, uh, Require or benefit from less, um,

[00:21:41] Carl Lanore: [00:21:41] time off.

[00:21:42] Dr. Brad Schoenfeld, PhD: [00:21:42] Yeah. More time efficiency, you know, more right than not using them as as much things like drop sets probably to a lesser extent that certain issue is what would depend upon what you're looking to do. I'm a proponent and it's not well researched at this point, but including, uh, [00:22:00] Long lane polls. So basically it's like a loaded stretch in training and, um, again, not really a lot of research, but the, uh, potential for damage.

[00:22:15] There also is.

[00:22:16] Carl Lanore: [00:22:16] So you're, you're talking about like, you're talking about a static cold, right? You get, you get the muscle into a fully contracted position and, and you have a heavy weight there and the weight wants to pull the muscle and stretch it. And you're resisting that.

[00:22:29] Dr. Brad Schoenfeld, PhD: [00:22:29] Well, but you're not in a control contracted you're in a fully, in a stretched position.

[00:22:33] So let's say, let's say you're doing a Dumbo by, you would be in the, in the start position.

[00:22:40] Carl Lanore: [00:22:40] Do those. I used to do those back in the day as a finishing movement. I read a study once that showed that it increases androgen receptor, a biogenesis and muscle tissue. Is there any truth to that? The loaded stretch increasing, uh, AR.

[00:22:54] I

[00:22:54] Dr. Brad Schoenfeld, PhD: [00:22:54] have not seen that, or maybe I haven't, I just don't remember. But there is some evidence [00:23:00] that there was some, not only some, there's some actually quite compelling evidence that the long length position is the most effective position for hypertrophy. At least in certain exercise. It depends on the exercise, but that in, in various exercises, depending on the

[00:23:15] Carl Lanore: [00:23:15] movement,

[00:23:20] Brad. Are you still there? Uh, so what about aerobics cardio? Right? There's been lots of arguments that cardio burns muscle, but could, can cardiovascular training actually enhance the hypertrophic effect of exercise of, of resistance training?

[00:23:39] Dr. Brad Schoenfeld, PhD: [00:23:39] Yep. That's a again, where the answer would be in. It depends. So a kind of interfere, there is something called the chronic interference hypothesis, where if you're doing cardio in combination with resistance training, it has the potential to interfere with your gains, but that's going to be a function of multiple factors.

[00:23:58] Number one, your training [00:24:00] experience. The volume and duration frequency of both the cardio and the resistance training routines, genetic factors that are going to enter in. But cardio certainly has a place in a resistance training session. If you manage it properly, uh, at the very least that helps with recovery.

[00:24:17] So it helps, um, with nutrient flow with, uh, dissipating soreness, if there is any, which will help you get back quicker, uh, there is, uh, it enhances your mitochondrial mitochondrial biogenesis, which is the creation of mitochondria. Mitochondria actually has been shown to be involved in that. Hypertrophic response.

[00:24:38] Um, it helps with capillary density. So increasing categories again, that has a recovery factors, nutrient exchange. So, uh, yeah, increasing the, or adding a cardio component. So resistance training routine provided is properly manage, uh, becomes, or can, uh, enhance your [00:25:00] results, but it becomes a challenging proposition, especially as you get more.

[00:25:05] Experienced as a lifter because there are, um, there is actually good evidence that the more experienced you get the greater, the potential for interference, by the way, the, I was going to say in the early stages of training, you can actually get increased hypertrophy just from doing cardio because you're creating more volume.

[00:25:25] When you run your sedentary, it's actually just more stressors on the body that you can. Uh, you, you can adhere to this. So

[00:25:33] Carl Lanore: [00:25:33] the, the book is called the science and development of muscle hypertrophy. It's the second edition. You get This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.. You can also go to dr. Schoenfeld a website. Look great naked.com.

[00:25:46] Uh, to learn more about him. He's got some great articles there and great information. Other books that had, he has published, uh, over a half a million, uh, copies in, in, uh, in circulation today. Uh, he's the guy that go to, if you [00:26:00] want to feel okay. Like you're not spending more time in the gym and wasting time and you're making better gains.

[00:26:07] Uh, there's nobody that's done the research that he has done, and it started a long time ago, a forum. We're going to take a quick commercial break. When we come back, I have lots of more questions. Please post your questions as well. And we'll try to work them into the show. Uh, as we go stay tuned, we'll be right back.

[00:26:22] The superhuman channel we're ripped and we're ready.

[00:26:31] Welcome back talking to dr. Bradshaw and felt about building muscle. Something that he's passionate about. Thank God he's passionate about it because he saves a lot of us, the trouble of having to educate ourselves on these topics that we would never be able to do. Um, so. Nutrition plays a very, very large role in your response to training.

[00:26:52] Do you think that most hard gainers just don't eat enough and definitely don't eat enough protein?

[00:26:58] Dr. Brad Schoenfeld, PhD: [00:26:58] Um, I think that's the [00:27:00] case in a lot of, I wouldn't say most, I'm not sure most, but there's certainly a lot, whether it comes into a majority or not, but yeah, I mean the protein, I think just calories per se, especially our gainers.

[00:27:12] Uh, I think sometimes. People say, well, I'm not kidding or hard getting in might say, you know what? I need to get my protein in. But then they, as we know, especially higher protein tends to blunt the appetite and they might not be supporting their growth group enough calories. If you want to. Maximize muscle, particularly for a hard gainer becomes more and more important to eat in a surplus.

[00:27:33] Carl Lanore: [00:27:33] Um, let's talk a little about some hot topics that are coming up now, and that is things that modulator M and amp K they're becoming very, very popular things like Metformin, uh, things like rep myosin. Um, these drugs are considered sent Alytics quite often, so they have, uh, an anti aging benefit. But we also see that they interfere with M Tor to some degree, uh, lots of bodybuilding they're [00:28:00] using, um, Metformin today because they say it increases their gains by managing blood sugar and increasing insulin sensitivity.

[00:28:09] What does the research show, what does the science show, should we be afraid of these?

[00:28:13] Dr. Brad Schoenfeld, PhD: [00:28:13] I'll tell you. That's not an area that I, uh, I get into a lot Kroll the, uh, the medication aspect. Uh, I think that, uh, The unfortunate thing with bodybuilders is basically they're their own experiments. So they're, we, we, the types of research that I'm aware of on these types of, you know, these types of drugs are not really looking at that as a primary outcome.

[00:28:37] Those are generally secondary outcomes is what happens to muscle when they're doing certain things. And, uh, I, and usually they're doing them with super physiological dosages. So, you know, to me, that's a, I wouldn't even venture a guess. I've seen some of the research on it and some of it I think is equivocal, but to harken a, a [00:29:00] guess as to what, how it might actually cause a response, I think would be a response.

[00:29:04] Carl Lanore: [00:29:04] So dr. McKell bloggers Colone, he's the guy who started all the rap, rap, myosin research. He was a cancer, uh, uh, doctor oncologist. And he started to notice things about people that were taking up myosin for cancer. And that led him to publish several papers, uh, about its effects as a, of lytic and reducing, uh, senescent cell load and tissue.

[00:29:28] And so one day we were texting and I said to him, I said, I said, uh, did you have you looked at so rapid myosin wrap myosin and reduces M tour for three days? Dramatically, you know, six milligrams we'll reduce them to for three days. I said, have you looked at rap myosin in the face of high protein intake, high leucine, M stimulating.

[00:29:55] Yeah. And he said, no, no one's ever done that. I said, could it be. That I could take [00:30:00] six milligrams of rap Maya's on a Wednesday and I could eat 400 grams of high quality protein that day and M Tor doesn't shut down. And he sent me back a big question Mark. And he said, you know, you may be onto something.

[00:30:12] And he said, maybe when people take rap myosin for anti aging, they should also curtail their protein intake. You know? So it's, it's hard. I find it hard to believe that. Rap myosin will blunt M tour when you're eating a high protein diet. And that might be why these, um, uh, settling drugs that are making their way into bodybuilding.

[00:30:35] No, no. One's looking at a guy who's eating 350 grams of protein a day and taking a thousand milligrams of Metformin. They're only looking at sick people who Metformin and go, Oh, wow. It really shuts them tore down. But then I'm looking at people like us who are consuming. What would be considered by most people, ridiculous amounts of protein.

[00:30:53] You know, I kind of feel like there's a net effect where if the stimulation of M tour's all the way up here and [00:31:00] the, the reduction of M tours down here, you're going to end up not shutting it. M tour. What do you think.

[00:31:06] Dr. Brad Schoenfeld, PhD: [00:31:06] Uh, highly speculative, but, uh, I, first of all, I'm not clear that 350 grams of protein, Trinity, this sort be a kind of being somewhat facetious, but that's going to have any additional benefit above two grams per kilogram or so.

[00:31:20] So when you're getting into really high protein and takes gentleman's can become superfluous because your body just can't. Utilize that for tissue building purposes. But, um, and, and it'll be ox. The amino acids would be oxidized, but, um, I, if you're asking me speculate, I would probably speculate that protein intake would be a mediator that it would, whether it would obliterate the results of ref.

[00:31:44] I that's, I don't know. Oh, I wouldn't think so because it's, the lesson is a powerful. Uh, winter of Avatour, uh, you're right. To the best of my knowledge. That's never been looked at, uh, in vivo in the [00:32:00] human body.

[00:32:01] Carl Lanore: [00:32:01] So let's let let's, let's do a little stream of consciousness on some of these things. Maybe you can kind of give me some bullets where, where you fall and how you feel myostatin.

[00:32:11] Dr. Brad Schoenfeld, PhD: [00:32:11] So most times that's really interesting. So myostatin would be considered what's called a myokine it's released with them a muscle cell. Its uh, its primary role is to reduce hypertrophy basically it's to put a ceiling and conceivably, it says, you kind of mentioned at the outset of the show, the body doesn't want to get too big.

[00:32:30] Certainly the body doesn't want to lose muscle, but beyond a certain point, it, if it's inefficient from a. Uh, ancestral standpoint, when we go back to our, our caveman ancestry, if you will, uh, that, uh, hello, large muscles would be, first of all, they would weigh you down when you're trying to run fast, uh, and to catch your prey if you need me.

[00:32:56] But as you also mentioned, it's very energetically expensive, and, uh, [00:33:00] that would just require you to continue to need more food, which. There's not an abundance of those zeros. So, um, my standard is a sealing drug. If he wrote that we'll cap that, uh, Yeah, it's rolling in humans from a training standpoint is remained somewhat questionable to me.

[00:33:23] Uh, there is some evidence that it, uh, the blunting of myostatin during resistance training, uh, is a factor. Other studies I've seen shows that actually it really from a physiological state, unless you're going to really get. And not completely knock out the myostatin though. We know in double Niles fat knockouts, you see huge increases in muscle.

[00:33:46] Um, and as you mentioned, I think when we were talking earlier about like the, uh, the, uh, Schwartzenegger cattle, they call them the Belgian blue cattle, uh, where they knock out the w minus that knockouts, there, they look like they're [00:34:00] dogs, steroids, right. But, uh, physiological context, I'm not sure how much, uh, It actually needs and it must say, I'm not sure.

[00:34:08] I, the literature. Uh, really, to me is inconclusive in that respect and what I would say with a quite compelling, uh, degree of confidence in is that anything that is promoted at this point for reducing myostatin and supplementation? Uh, Your legal supplementation at least would not be an effective means to enhance it.

[00:34:30] Carl Lanore: [00:34:30] In fact, there's a scientist that I had on this show probably seven years ago from the state university of New York a school system. I can't remember which university it was, but they did my humble opinion, the quintessential myostatin research. Uh, you know, when we talk about myostatin effect, we're talking about our mature muscle.

[00:34:50] Um, when we talk about double knockout, Rodents like dr. Sasha and Lee work with, or even the fullest Staten over producers. We know that from an embryo [00:35:00] to birth, they have already been under the impetus of no myostatin. So their muscles, it's a very different, you take somebody like you or I, and we've spent 50 the years in this skin, and now we want to turn off myostatin and see great growth.

[00:35:14] It works. But it has to be a minimum of 97% suppression continuously to see any muscle changes at all. And then as soon as you remove. The suppression, your muscles go right back to where they were. That's because this is an evolutionary safety net. This is an evolutionary safety net because you don't want unbridled muscle growth, only bodybuilders and people with inadequate self-esteem one unbridled muscle growth, because they think that they they're going to be like dr.

[00:35:45] Jekyll and mr. Hyde. But you don't want that because then now all of a sudden your daily requirement for calories goes to 15,000 and it's like, that's not a good thing. If you're out there looking for food, maybe you can do shopping at amp and Christie's, but you're not going to do it in the woods, in the wilderness.

[00:35:59] So,

[00:36:00] [00:36:00] Dr. Brad Schoenfeld, PhD: [00:36:00] and also, and sorry to interrupt, but I think another very important point is in the double knockouts that you see. The muscle tissue itself is functionally deficient as well. So yeah, you can, if you're a bodybuilder on your shoe. Yeah. Actually the ratio of quality, the quality of the muscle is poor and thus carrying the extra bulk has a negative.

[00:36:23] Effect on performance because you're, the tissue is less functional and you have greater bulk, which in combination actually results in a functional deficit.

[00:36:31] Carl Lanore: [00:36:31] How about INSEAD's? What do you think about onsets? Lots of guys take them. There's research out there that shows that could blunt protein, synthetic response to training.

[00:36:39] What do you think about them?

[00:36:40] Dr. Brad Schoenfeld, PhD: [00:36:40] Yeah, interesting topic. Uh, and there are some nuances here, so. What's been shown is in younger people who chronically take a INSEAD's there's a blunting of both strength and I purchased it. In elderly, older, older folks, because you're not, you know, when you're talking [00:37:00] like a

[00:37:00] Carl Lanore: [00:37:00] plus, Oh yes, I am.

[00:37:02] According to COVID-19, I'm going to die. But anyway,

[00:37:07] Dr. Brad Schoenfeld, PhD: [00:37:07] people who are 60 plus a and more like in their, in their sixties and seventies, uh, it actually has either neutral or in some cases it's been shown to have a positive effect theory behind it is, is that and said, so basically. For those who don't know and say, Ben says there are Cox inhibitors, there's psychological, psychological  enzyme inhibitors.

[00:37:31] And the Cox enzyme is involved in also growth. It's a, uh, amongst other things. Now it's involved in, uh, inflammation and other factors that can be caused pain, which is why blunting. It can be a positive effect in the insets. But, um, it also does have an effect on muscle growth, but yeah, another thing that and says Jew is they reduce, uh, chronic inflammation where they reduce inflammation.

[00:38:00] [00:37:59] So the Cox enzymes I mentioned and including chronic inflammation, elderly. Generally have more chronic inflammatory issues. Chronic. The interesting thing here is that chronic inflammation is a negative regulator of muscle growth. If you're chronically inflamed, you're going to have a harder time building muscle.

[00:38:16] It's one of the reasons why the surmise elderly people are not able to vote muscle as well. Uh, whereas young people tend to not have chronic illnesses and, uh, thus, so the suppression of, or just to. Take a step back. The suppression of the chronic inflammation seems to be override any negative effects of the suppression of the acute inflammatory response.

[00:38:41] But the acute inflammatory response is a pro muscle building, uh, effector and thus in younger people, uh, impairing that acute pro-inflammatory response. Since there's not much of an, a chronic inflammatory response has a negative effect. So anyway, that would be the [00:39:00] general gist of it. I would also say that the occasional use we're talking chronic use now is where the issues are.

[00:39:06] Uh, those who, uh, use it occasionally. It's just not going to be an issue.

[00:39:12] Carl Lanore: [00:39:12] Uh, before we take a last commercial break, uh, the book is the science and development of muscle hypertrophy. Second edition, you get This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.. You can also visit dr. Shoenfeld's, uh, website look great naked.com. And I want to mention something now we're also fast to run out and buy, you know, a $90 supplement that promises to increase our muscle growth.

[00:39:35] Uh, but we're not willing to plunk down maybe 90 or less, 60 whatever, uh, for a good book that if you get two or three good pearls of information from, they will impact your success in the gym for the rest of your life, where that other bottle just ran out and you throw it away and you got to go and buy more.

[00:39:54] And whether or not it's even working as questionable. I say this because so few people. [00:40:00] Are willing to truly invest in the kind of knowledge and information that will reward them by helping them achieve their goals faster. And there is no better author when it comes to talking about building muscle.

[00:40:14] Then Brad. And really, if you go to Amazon and get the book, I promise you that it will reward you for years and years to come. We'll get to take one last commercial break. I have a couple more questions for them. Stay tuned. We'll be right back. Move over to superheroes. This is the superhuman channel.

[00:40:35] welcome back. We have a question from somebody in the audience. It's a good one, too. What do you recommend most for blood flow restriction incorporated into normal routine? Like a finisher set, arms and legs by itself, a full protocol. I can't figure out where and how to use it. And that's from faith fitness guy KK.

[00:40:57] Dr. Brad Schoenfeld, PhD: [00:40:57] Yeah. So the only time I would recommend using [00:41:00] it as a standalone. A would be if you're a recovering from an injury, uh, or you have, uh, Substantial, um, asked your arthritis, that's affecting you where you just can't lift heavier. Uh, and even then probably combining it with light loads would be more the, uh, the better route.

[00:41:21] First of all, the inherent limitation with what port restriction is that it's specific to the lips. So you're not going to, you can't use it for your chest. You know, I mean, there's some residual effects that have been noted in a few studies, uh, but really anything. Uh, it it's disbelief. So if you're going to, let's say cup here at the, uh, deltoid area, you're only going to get results distal.

[00:41:42] So at the biceps area, forearm, you're not going to get results in the chest where there'll be very minimal. So anything for the torso would be, you need to do direct work anyway. So yeah, I'd recommend using it as a, uh, in tandem. Have you a load training? [00:42:00] Generally speaking, uh, I think it's better used with single joint movements.

[00:42:05] Uh, I kinda mentioned earlier about using like your compound movements for your heavy load training and then using lighter roads. And I think it could be a very effective tool and there's actually been some quite interesting research, a colleague of mine. Talk to me Bjornsen out of Norway. Did his PhD work on.

[00:42:24] On the topic. And he actually did. One of his studies was in elite powerlifters and showed that they got great type one. I virtually wow. Basically that the, a group of parallel is performing traditional. A resistance to a traditional resistance training, got almost neuro hypertrophy in their type one fibers, whereas adding the BFR and just a couple of short cycles of it, it wasn't like they just were trained with BFR.

[00:42:48] They just did a couple of short, you know, for our cycles, uh, increase the type one. Hyper two, I believe was seven 1%, which can be practically, practically meaningful in a bottle was [00:43:00] over. So I think there is a. Benefit to it. And at least a hypothetical you're conceivably for type one fiber growth, which would be preferential growth as opposed to doing traditional training.

[00:43:13] I think that needs to be teased out a little more, but if saw it's an exciting area of research, because if you could tap into your type one fibers to a greater degree, those are fibers that are harder to, to hypertrophy.

[00:43:24] Carl Lanore: [00:43:24] Interesting. Interesting. Um, okay. I find I get a good pump in my chest. If I put the BFR band around my neck, I'm only kidding.

[00:43:31] Don't anybody do that? Okay, please. I'm just joking. Just being a schmuck. That's all. Um, mechanical growth factor IGF one E see, I've experimented with the, during the COVID lockdown. I couldn't get to the gym. I wasn't motivated to train at home. I like going to the gym, the whole regimentation of getting in the car, going to the gym.

[00:43:51] I, my, my brain changes, everything changes. So I started doing a two or three, a real mechanical growth factor, not the pegylated long [00:44:00] acting version, uh, shots a day. At about 150 micrograms, uh, two or three times a day, and I didn't lose any muscle in the layoff at all. And I watched, you know, I was waiting to see, you know, cause usually about two weeks out, you start losing muscle.

[00:44:15] And in fact, that was just validated in this study. We're going to talk about later from a mech McMaster's university. It's it's two Phillips is a group over there. So I didn't lose anything. I first really learned about the value of, of MGF and that it was actually called IGF one EDC from you many, many years ago on the show.

[00:44:34] Um, how important is it to developing muscle after training?

[00:44:40] Dr. Brad Schoenfeld, PhD: [00:44:40] Yeah, so I really can't speak again to the, uh, drug aspects of it. I, you know, the literature I've seen some of the literature, but. Uh, I'm not, I would not be the one to get into what the, uh, you know, uh, exogenous, uh, affects would be. But the endogenously, the kind of growth factor, as [00:45:00] you said, is a splice of areas of IGF Wallen.

[00:45:03] And it's a, it's a, basically, it's a myokine. So it's occurs within the muscle where. The other, uh, variance, uh, are more specific to the liver and then they're secreted into the bloodstream. So they're, they're more, uh, they're endogenous, um, endocrine factors. Yeah. There's systemic endocrine factors. Whereas the, um, uh, MGM, it is a myokine.

[00:45:27] And what I would say is, is that a research entity in case that it is, it helps the kickstart the growth process after from training. So, yeah. Theoretically, it is quite important now isolating it. Yeah. Its effects have been somewhat contradictory and elusive, so there's certainly a lot of it is done in deep, in, uh, in vitro and even next year, but mostly in vitro, you know, in, in vitro, it has very profound effects part of the study to tease out some of the other factors in VBA, [00:46:00] uh, when it comes to it.

[00:46:00] But there's, uh, I think. In my humble opinion. Good enough evidence that, uh, we definitely, it definitely should be something to be considered. The question is, is there a way to preferentially upregulated? Do you know that it is, uh, both mechanical tension and muscle damage? Uh, both have effects on mechanic growth factor.

[00:46:23] We do know though that muscle damage in, uh, There's certainly a less than inverted view where you get too much muscle damage. It has a negative effect on growth. So what point would any benefits for muscle damage ultimately have negative effects on growth, even irrespective of what it does through MGM?

[00:46:42] So these are all interesting areas that we definitely need more research on to give a better, more concrete answer.

[00:46:50] Carl Lanore: [00:46:50] And lastly, testosterone has been thought to be the King. Of building muscle, uh, so much so that they're a pro body builder was out there that will take up [00:47:00] to five or six grams of injectable testosterone a week.

[00:47:04] And, uh, back when I was a young man and first started training, it was said, Oh, well, testosterone causes nitrogen retention and nitrogen retention leads to building more muscle. Are there any new thoughts about testosterone's contribution to building muscle? I remember seeing a study not too long ago that.

[00:47:22] Guys with very low testosterone levels was still able to build muscle when they trained hard and dieted. Right. But what do we know more about testosterone today that we didn't know back then?

[00:47:32] Dr. Brad Schoenfeld, PhD: [00:47:32] Yeah, so I think, uh, again, staying kind of away from the drug aspect of it, because number one, it's not research on, right?

[00:47:40] Yeah. Ridiculous. There's research on, uh, um, super physiological dosages, but nowhere near we're talking like 600 milligrams of test a week versus what the guys are

[00:47:51] Carl Lanore: [00:47:51] doing.

[00:47:52] Dr. Brad Schoenfeld, PhD: [00:47:52] 10 times that amount. So, yeah. So if you're talking about indogenous production, uh, I think the evidence is certainly you can [00:48:00] build, uh, sorry if you're hypogonadal you can still go muscle, look, women be able to appreciate what muscle and their testosterone levels are.

[00:48:09] A 10th of that meant. So, uh, certainly you can build muscle. Uh, there does. I think the evidence is compelling enough where having a being within a, uh, physiological range is important. So if you're hypogonadal, you will generally have a blunted response to someone that is within a physiological orange now, but that said your physiological range, depending upon which stat you look at is somewhere between 300 to 800 nanograms per deciliter.

[00:48:39] Sometimes they say a thousand milligrams per deciliter. I've not seen compelling evidence that at least within the mid range of that physiological range, there's any difference. And that I think is what's really important. So let's say you want to SaaStr, let's say you were at 600 and you go down to 400.

[00:48:56] It's your blood thing to sponsored by a third. I've not seen any compelling evidence with that. [00:49:00] That really would have an appreciable in fact, on Muslim. As even though it sounds you're reducing your Muslim, your funerals levels by a third. Now, if you're, let's say 300 versus 800. Again, it's really not clear.

[00:49:11] We don't have any good evidence, but there's some observational data that shows that might have an effect. And that really is kind of, I think the best literature can tell us

[00:49:21] Carl Lanore: [00:49:21] the book is the science and development of muscle hypertrophy. It's the second edition. You can get an amazon.com. You can also go to look great naked.com to learn more.

[00:49:30] About dr. Schoenfeld, if you've been living under a rock and you've never heard of him before, I'm always great to have you on the show. Um, very rational, sobering discussions that people should find a great deal of, uh, peace in because this book will help you build muscle no matter where you are in your life.

[00:49:53] And that's more than I can say about a lot of supplements and. Products out there that promise to do so. Thanks for [00:50:00] being on the show today.

[00:50:02] Talk soon. We're going to take one quick commercial it'll break. And when we come back, we'll do wanna talk a little bit more about muscle is an interesting study that just came out of McMaster university, uh, from, uh, dr.

[00:50:13] Stu Phillips, his lab that looks at. Muscle loss and may help us understand what's going on. When we lose muscle stay tuned. We'll be right back. This is the superhuman channel where we use oxygen for the power of good.

[00:50:42] So researchers over at McMaster university did a study recently. It was a 10 week study, um, with young men, very interesting study. And what they did was they had these guys training legs. I think it was leg press. The study will [00:51:00] be up in today's writeup also. So you can go look at it and. Uh, they did that for eight weeks.

[00:51:06] And then the last two weeks they immobilized one of the legs completely. They put a brace on it so that they couldn't put any weight on, on the leg at all. And the idea was, they've looked at muscle gains and muscle losses, uh, in groups of people, but they've never looked at it in specific individuals, the same amount of muscle gain and loss.

[00:51:33] And so this was very, um, interesting study. So the muscle gains were between 1% and 15% over the full 10 weeks. That was the muscle gains, but the muscle loss in the mobilized leg, which only happened for the last two weeks of the study was between 1% and 18%. So the average gain. [00:52:00] Over the course of the first eight weeks.

[00:52:04] Well, I take that back. The average gain over the course of the entire 10 weeks of the leg that continued to exercise was about 8%. The average loss over the last two weeks of the immobilized leg was about 9%. When you do this math, it actually is five times faster muscle loss. Then gains. And I predict that these young guys that if we did this to elderly people like myself, older guys, like me, we find out that the muscle loss is even greater and.

[00:52:43] This is fits into the whole discussion that I said earlier, when doctor Schoenfeld was on the show. And I said, you know, two weeks it's usually takes two weeks of not training to start to see the changes in your muscles. And a lot of people have said that, and it's anecdotal, but we millions of [00:53:00] people over decades have noticed this.

[00:53:02] So it's become accepted. And just two weeks, the immobilized leg on average lost the same amount of muscle mass that the opposite leg had gained through more than two months. So weight training, this is very, very fascinating, and it really makes perfect sense when you really think about it. Right. Um, There th the group discovered that there appears to be 141 genes that regulate the growth of the body's skeletal muscle tethered to the skeleton by tendons.

[00:53:35] They are muscles that control power and movement, and these are the prime movers, right back legs, shoulders, and so on. So the. Average looking at the average muscle gains in the average muscle losses in the leg that was then mobilized immobilized for two weeks, we can see that it's a five [00:54:00] times greater or faster loss than it is gained.

[00:54:04] And I've said on the show that if I take off for a couple of weeks, the, the, the, the, the crux all back up the Hill is so much slower. Then the slide down the Hill, and it's really true. Why is this important? Because it fits into evolutionary medicine. Like we said, a second ago, muscle is metabolically expensive.

[00:54:28] You have to feed it calories. If you don't feed it calories, it's not going to linger. It's not going to stick around. And muscle loss happens even faster than fat loss. Now we can see that just from this one study. Why is this? Well, if you're not moving much, if you're not moving heavyweight, if you're not transporting your body for long distances, if you're not doing this stuff, then you're not hunting.

[00:54:53] You're not feeding yourself. So the body is going to automatically make adaptive to [00:55:00] keep you from starving to death. That's really what this comes out to, and they can, the thing that I found most fascinating about this, what they discovered in this study was not that that we should look at having older people move more and continue to do resistance training type exercises instead of just walking.

[00:55:22] Instead, what they said was. If we can target those genes with lifestyle and drug therapy, the drug therapies got me, the lifestyle I get. Uh, we may be able to help seniors and other vulnerable, uh, others vulnerable to muscle loss. I don't think you need drugs, maybe LaShawn. I take that back. Maybe testosterone.

[00:55:43] We do know that, uh, when men get low on testosterone and women, their desire to move drops there, um, Sense of wellbeing goes away and you're less likely to train most, you know, I would imagine. Um, but the reality is [00:56:00] that understanding this should dictate that doctors should be prescribing resistance training.

[00:56:08] I've talked about this so many times on the show now, and it's just ridiculous. It's ridiculous that a doctor prescribes drugs that will. Prescribed that a patient see a nutritionist and most nutritionists don't know a damn thing about what they're talking about. The God's honest truth is I'm sorry to say it.

[00:56:27] Um, that doctors do not prescribe resistant training that they have. They don't have the ability to take out a pad and write a prescription that you go see this personal trainer. Maybe they have four or five personal trainers that they work with. And I blame this on personal trainers. Because the science is there.

[00:56:46] The science shows that people who exercise continue to exercise, they do things like squats and step ups. They don't fall as off. Then they're able to get out of chairs. They they're able to live independently. We [00:57:00] know this, the disconnect is that the way a pharmaceutical rep calls on a doctor and says, Hey, next time your patient comes in with this problem prescribed this drug.

[00:57:09] We need a concerted effort. Of personal trainers and maybe it should be the organization that certifies you. Maybe it should be ISS. Maybe it should be NFPT. Maybe it should be organizations that actually train you to be a personal trainer. Maybe the burden should be on them to start calling on doctors and saying, look at this research, look at this great science, strong people live the longest.

[00:57:36] We know that that's been shown in research. People who continue to do things like step ups and squats. They don't fall. As often, we know that from research, we know that people are less likely to become insulin resistant when they, they keep growing muscle and maintaining their muscle. One study looked at women to the age of 60 and meant to the age of 65.

[00:57:58] Those who maintain [00:58:00] muscle to those ages, their life expectancy was greater and their health expectancy was greater. They didn't develop diseases. Who is going to start calling on doctors and saying, look, this is undeniable science. Why are you not prescribing resistant training for your patients? The doctor's going to say, I don't know anything about resistance training.

[00:58:21] I don't know if I should do it. What if they hurt themselves? I'll be liable. Great. Then let us be responsible for that. Let the personal trainer be responsible for that, but at least get them involved. You'll have help your patients. If that matters to a doctor. They should be willing to start working with personal trainers and their patients need this.

[00:58:43] Their life outcomes will be so much better if they start learning the value of muscle and how it will improve the quality of their life, their longevity, their health span, and everything along with it. So. I'll put this study in the notes. If you're a person, a [00:59:00] little trainer, you know, I've done these shows before where I said, personal trainers need to take this and take it to a local doctor and say, look me, you should have doctors in your town feeding you new clients every day.

[00:59:13] On top of that with the kids COVID-19 thing, get yourself a little truck or a van, or take your car and put your dumbbells and your kettlebells in your trunk and say, and on top of that doc, I go to them. No, there are huge opportunities within the personal training industry today, but no one is working on it.

[00:59:34] Everybody's working at a gym, waiting for somebody to come in and tell them, Hey, I want to lose weight. You could actually be saving lives. You could actually be changing lives. You need to find doctors to work with, take this research, take the other research I've done. Other shows about this, put it all together.

[00:59:52] Go and start calling on doctors, creative cut sheet, especially if you're good looking guy and you've got muscle. [01:00:00] You're a good looking girl. And you've got muscle be like the pharmaceutical rep walk into that office. Proud. Look at the physique. When you walk into the girls at the front desk, the guys at the front desk, they're gonna look at you and go, wow, that's a beautiful person right there and say, Hey, I'd like to leave you a flyer.

[01:00:15] Leave a flyer, get to the office manager, follow what the pharmaceutical industry does to build your book of business. You should have five doctors in your town feeding you clients every single day. You should have to hire other people to work for you. And we're not taking advantage of people by doing this.

[01:00:36] We're actually solving health problems, insurance. Premiums will go down. Eventually. If we started doing this five years from now, we'd have a different population out there, not everybody, but a larger percentage than we do right now. So take this study, take this information and go see some doctors and say, Hey, now you have a personal trainer on your staff.

[01:01:00] [01:01:00] I won't hurt your patients. Here's what I'm going to make them do. Here are the types of movements we'll do. I'll you know, I'm going to check back with you to see how they're doing on their checkups. Work in tangent with them. This is a missing component of health today, and it's really the final piece that will start to make people healthy.

[01:01:20] Really that's it for today. We have a great show tomorrow. We're going to explore the nutritional legacies of the bodybuilding diet. I learned about this from Randy Roche, uh, volume, one of muscle smoke and mirrors. And tomorrow we have bill taco coming on, who is, uh, a personal trainer, but more importantly, he works with IFB professional athletes.

[01:01:43] Fixing their diet for them so that they can reach their goals. He's going to be on tomorrow. And we're going to talk about the nutritional legacies of the bodybuilding diet diets, come and go carnivore paleo, you know, kedo, but this diet has been [01:02:00] producing results for over a hundred years today. People like Vince Shironda, Arnold Schwartzenegger Chet Yorkton.

[01:02:07] I mean, the list goes on and on. It was the origin of the low carb. Low inflammation, diet. That actually is a cornerstone of health. Then we're going to explore that tomorrow. So don't miss, by the way, we have the new Instagram page for supreme-a radio. It's at superhuman radio. Could you please go and follow on Instagram?

[01:02:28] We have some great content up there, special offers and so on. Again, if you're on Instagram at superhuman radio, check it out like us. Follow us. Thank you so much. Share the show. Help some people. We'll see you tomorrow. Thanks a lot. [01:03:00]