[00:00:00] Carl Lanore: [00:00:00] Welcome back to another episode of super Yuma radio. Today is August six, 2020. We're going to be talking about the bodybuilding diet. This is a diet that really originated over a hundred years ago amongst the fathers of physical culture. And it, it remains the best way to diet for re partitioning, uh, your body.

[00:00:20] And I mean, by building muscle and losing body fat, uh, and we're going to investigate it today because fad diets come and go. Every year, there's a new, new train that people get on for diets, but this diet has stuck around and it always does what it's promised to do. We're going to explore that with bill taco in just a minute, who is a, uh, works with a lot of professional athletes and getting their diets dialed in before we do that, we have to, of course, thank my title sponsor.

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[00:01:43] Bill Tocco: [00:01:43] I'm good, actually. Carla, it's the long. Oh, it's true.

[00:01:46] Carl Lanore: [00:01:46] Toko I'm sorry. Okay. Thank you. Thank you for correcting.

[00:01:49] Bill Tocco: [00:01:49] Uh, just a little plug too, for legendary foods. Those pop tarts are amazing. I happen to like the strawberry ones the most. They're great.

[00:01:57] Carl Lanore: [00:01:57] Yeah. Uh, you know, [00:02:00] people, I had Shannon Pena on the show, not too long ago, she's doing a cooking segment with us now.

[00:02:06] You know, she invented the quest bar. And while she didn't invent the pop tart, Ron, her husband actually did. She's behind all their nut butters. Their nut butters are amazing. They taste like they're loaded with sugar, but they're really not. And they, they are every bit of a dessert. I like to just take a spoonful of him and eat him at, at the end of a meal to kind of punctuate the meal for myself.

[00:02:29] They have great products. They really, really do. So let's talk about the bodybuilding diet and its legacy. I first really learned about the bodybuilding diet in 2006 from Randy Roach. When he wrote his book, muscle smoke and mirrors volume, one volume, one specifically was designed to convey to people the nutritional legacy.

[00:02:54] That was given to people through the early fathers of physical culture, Jacqueline, Elaine, Armand, [00:03:00] Tanny, Rio, Blair, um, Vince Geronda. I mean, people still Google the venture on the diet. We're really talking about that diet. When we talk here today, this is not only a bodybuilding diet, but in reality, as you like to refer to it, it's the low inflammation diet.

[00:03:17] Given the fact that inflammation is at the root of every disease. Everybody should be eating this way, right?

[00:03:23] Bill Tocco: [00:03:23] Yeah. I mean, going back to Vince grunda and you know, all those older guys that were around that diet has seemed to really stand the test of time and over and over. When you go back to that diet, it seems to work for the majority of people, even if they're not in bodybuilding, if they just want to, like, if they're just regular people, I have a lot of people that I work with that don't have anything to do with any kind of fitness competitions, but want to lose a little bit of weight and stay in shape and.

[00:03:50] You know, having those intervals where you're eating every two and a half to three hours, uh, things of that nature, having lower carbohydrates, moderate fats with high protein, [00:04:00] creating that environment where it's low inflammation, not only is it healthy for you, but it seems every time you go back to that, When these fad diets come in and out, it really works well for almost everybody.

[00:04:10] Carl Lanore: [00:04:10] You know, what's really funny. I got in my best shape and my strongest eating this way, but then intimate and fasting. You know, I did my first show on intimate and fasting around 2007, I think, or 2008 with dr. Mark McCarty when they looked at rodents and then people, and I thought, well, maybe this is the way to go.

[00:04:30] And it's more convenient. You know, I don't have to prep my meals. And the reality is. I've been intimate and fasting for 10 years and I've done nothing but lose muscle gradually from year in and year out. I know that you've seen pictures of me recently, and it's disgusting when you look at the pictures of me at 50 and now at 60, there's a dramatic difference in the amount of muscle that I carry now.

[00:04:53] And it, and I attributed it to the fact that I have been a Divo today. Of basically what is considered the starvation [00:05:00] diet. In my humble opinion, you're really starving yourself. Your body is getting a signal every single day. That food is not in abundance because you're going for long periods of time without eating.

[00:05:09] Now, granted there's some evidence step. This may have some positive effects in aging, but I'm not convinced that if you're losing muscle, that's a good thing for aging. What do you

[00:05:21] Bill Tocco: [00:05:21] think? Uh, you know what, I think that, uh, Some studies and, you know, I know that, you know, this has shown that when you fast, you know, you could have higher outputs of IGF one.

[00:05:32] Um, but then like argument is, have you seen Gandhi was always fascinating. He wasn't huge. So some people make that argument. Well, I don't want to get my growth hormone levels up and things of that nature. Now, there has been some good evidence that it is good for life, extension and aging. But as far as keeping muscle, like you were talking about over the long haul as you age and like.

[00:05:53] On your show, I'm that I've listened to your show. I don't want to deviate too much, but I've been listening to the show for about 10 years now. [00:06:00] So I've listened to a lot of your shows. And I remember you talk about, uh, women as they age, especially when they get up towards 70. If they don't do any kind of resistance training, they become, uh, able to maybe get them out of a chair.

[00:06:13] And I think that is part of it too. If you don't have an appropriate to build that muscle tissue and to number one, carry a positive nitrogen balance. And you have basically a skinny fat frame and you're not ambulatory able to move. You're going to have some issues. So I think you're exactly right by saying losing muscle is probably not a good idea overall.

[00:06:34] Carl Lanore: [00:06:34] I would say no, no. I'm strength equates to longevity and health span. We know that now there's numerous studies that prove that I always believed that when I first started doing this show for the first three years. I would close every show by saying muscle is metabolic currency. Get into the gym and make a deposit today.

[00:06:50] The same way you save money, you need to save you gain muscle. Right. That's playing out inside. So, yeah. So let's start off with this topic first, since we're [00:07:00] talking about meal frequency, I believe that you can still do the bodybuilding diet. And still stop eating at a reasonable time at night to where autophagy and the anti-aging benefits of time restricted feeding can take effect.

[00:07:12] You don't need 16, 18 hours. You need 10, 12 hours. And that that's probably the sweet spot. So let's talk about the magic of meal frequency. One of the things that the bodybuilding diet focuses on is something that was called about. 20 years ago, the fed state were meaning that when the bond he is having lots of small meals all day long, it conveys the sense of abundance and the body goes, I don't need to store fat.

[00:07:42] We get all the food we want. We never miss a meal. Everything is great. As opposed to turning grelin on. Which we know grill and agonist actually cause a greater deposition of body fat. If you're using high doses of GHR P six, you're going to start noticing you're storing the body fat more. [00:08:00] And so we know that when the body is starving from an evolutionary perspective, it says, we need to have fact, this guy may not be able to, or this gal may not be able to get food in it in a day or two, but.

[00:08:10] When you're having those five or six small meals a day, aside from the fact that insulin stays nice and stable throughout the day, the body also feels secure. So it can give a body fat, right?

[00:08:21] Bill Tocco: [00:08:21] Yes. I agree with that in many ways. Um, Also another caveat to that is when you're eating in these frequent times lives and your body starts to get it, just to do that, I believe.

[00:08:31] And I've seen, uh, evidence anecdotally, throughout many people. I've worked with them, myself, doing it on myself is that your metabolism seems to definitely be on an uptick when you're eating at those intervals, because you're not going up long period. So when you go a long period, your body is like, well, let's slow everything down because it might be hitting a time where you can't go out of your cave and chase down a bison.

[00:08:53] Or whatever the case may be and get that next meal. Now, uh, when you talk about Braelin for the people that don't know out there, [00:09:00] when this hormone is released at growing, you get very hungry and you get that growling and your stomach. I know a guy, tell me if this sounds familiar, that was taking a, this peptide GH RP six that you refer to.

[00:09:12] It makes the ground response almost uncontrollable and you get so hungry. This guy actually went over to his refrigerator. And opened up a jar of brewers East and was eating it.

[00:09:23] Carl Lanore: [00:09:23] You're talking about me

[00:09:24] Bill Tocco: [00:09:24] by this pool. I'm talking about you. How long ago was that?

[00:09:28] Carl Lanore: [00:09:28] Oh my God, that was 2008. I think I talked to them.

[00:09:31] Bill Tocco: [00:09:31] Yeah. So, like I said, I've been listening to the show.

[00:09:34] Carl Lanore: [00:09:34] Well, I did, I took 250. I took 250 micrograms of . I got so hungry that I had raw unpasteurized milk and cream. I was drinking that. And then all of a sudden I had, I had Brewer's yeast that I used to use it in my shakes. I took a spoon and I started eating it and it tasted so good.

[00:09:51] I thought to myself, man, I wonder if I could make a bruise yeast based candy for kids. That is how insane your mind goes when it doesn't taste [00:10:00] good. Let me tell you. No, it tastes like crap.

[00:10:02] Bill Tocco: [00:10:02] No,

[00:10:03] Carl Lanore: [00:10:03] but yeah. Yeah. But ghrelin ghrelin does that to you and also programs the body to store fat because it assumes you're starving.

[00:10:12] Yeah. So how many meals a day do you think are necessary to, to actually affect that fed state, uh, quality of a diet where the body goes, wow, we eat so regularly. We really don't have to worry about starving today.

[00:10:30] Bill Tocco: [00:10:30] I really like to say the sweet spot for most people, even if they're not bodybuilding would be somewhere around five meals.

[00:10:37] Now, when I have other people that can handle more food, I give them six and I give them seven meals. Now that's all really always dependent on the individual, uh, with their metabolism, how they can digest food and how they feel throughout the day. So it kind of varies, but I'd say five is a good sweet spot.

[00:10:55] Even for women.

[00:10:56] Carl Lanore: [00:10:56] And five is easy to do. People go, Oh, five meals. So you have three [00:11:00] meals and you have to maybe high protein snacks, high protein shakes. If you just drink it and be done with it.

[00:11:08] Bill Tocco: [00:11:08] Yeah. I agree with that wholeheartedly right there.

[00:11:10] Carl Lanore: [00:11:10] Okay. So what is the ideal duration? Between meals. So if we're looking at our schedule and we want to do five meals, like for a while, they're following the diet.

[00:11:22] I was up to six meals a day. I was eating every two, two and a half hours and staying within my eating window of stopping at 6:00 PM. I

[00:11:30] Bill Tocco: [00:11:30] think that's going to depend on how many meals you're doing in a day. If you're doing seven, then I think two and a half. Maybe even slightly shorter than that is good.

[00:11:39] So you can get all those meals in and then still obviously have that cutoff to where you get the benefits of having a small, fast before bed, a fast while you're sleeping. And then possibly a little bit of a fast, if you're getting up too early to do fast and Cardi or whatnot, and then you get both, uh, kind of ends of the spectrum.

[00:11:56] There, you get both benefits that way.

[00:11:58] Carl Lanore: [00:11:58] So let's talk [00:12:00] about macros. Now, one of the things that the bodybuilding diet focuses on is what would be considered juxtaposed to the traditional RDA type approach to diet a very high protein diet, generally around 50% of your calories are coming from protein.

[00:12:15] Correct. Okay. Yes.

[00:12:17] Bill Tocco: [00:12:17] I would say mostly, but I usually do with the, I would say at the bare minimum for someone that's a. Active. And then once the basically protect the muscle tissue that they already have on their frame, I would say you've got to start with, uh, not so much percentage, but I would say one gram of quality protein per pound of body weight, lean, or lean body weight.

[00:12:37] Okay. If you're a heart training bodybuilder, and you're looking to put on size, I would say I would go between 1.2 to 1.5 grams per pound of body weight. And in some cases, two grams. So I kind of do it more in a, on a grand basis. Uh, and a formula, uh, per their weight, more so than like a percentage. That's kind of how I usually do it.

[00:12:57] And that seems to work well for me,

[00:12:58] Carl Lanore: [00:12:58] start there. And then you [00:13:00] back the other two macros into it. Where does the protein and where does carbohydrates, where does fat fall in those ratios?

[00:13:07] Bill Tocco: [00:13:07] Okay. Usually what I always tell people first, as we got, when I get someone new that maybe doesn't know too much about, um, bodybuilding or that kind of a lifestyle diet, I always tell them first, we're going to start with the protein because we want to protect that muscle tissue that you have currently on your body.

[00:13:22] So I tell them just like you said, it's like putting the money in the bank every day with the training. Well, if you're getting your protein numbers in every day, at least, you know, you're not going to arbitrarily burn muscle tissue as a fuel source, you're going to be covered and you're protected there.

[00:13:36] So you start with the protein then with carbohydrates and fat, it's really, I've seen people that when I take all their carbs away, believe it or not. They don't lose body fat. And then I have other people when I give them a very, very minimal carbs and then higher fats, they tend to lose body fat. So really I start somewhere in the middle, on the carbs and fat, and I start going either backwards or forwards, [00:14:00] depending on how the person reacts to it.

[00:14:02] There's not really a one size fits all. Yeah.

[00:14:04] Carl Lanore: [00:14:04] Yeah. And as you know, and you know what, that's funny because. We have learned that medicine is not a one size fits all, but yet we think diet is going to be a one size fits all. And you're absolutely right. You're absolutely right.

[00:14:16] Bill Tocco: [00:14:16] Yeah. And you know, in a small thing that you, while you're on the subject saying medicine, isn't a one size fits all training.

[00:14:23] Really isn't a one size fits all. Either like Mike Menser great guy, you know, him and his brother Ray, they had their own ideas and some of the principles are awesome, but they really believe that, you know, that. Everybody was going to benefit from doing one, all outset. Then sometimes for some people that is not enough volume, one, just one all outset after a couple of warmups.

[00:14:44] And they believed in saying, well, if you, if this doesn't work for everybody, then how to people dispense medicine. So it's,

[00:14:51] Carl Lanore: [00:14:51] and now we have the answer to that. Now we have the answer to that.

[00:14:54] Bill Tocco: [00:14:54] Yeah. So I think that, uh, you know what you're saying holds true a little bit more than what the mentors are [00:15:00] talking about, even though I really respect them.

[00:15:01] And I use a lot of their principles and training. So

[00:15:05] Carl Lanore: [00:15:05] Jeff Clifton. Absolutely. The answer is so Jeff Clifton is asking, we'll edit, w will eating every couple of hours and then fasting for 12 hours, still switch up MTR. Absolutely. Because in fact it may actually switch up M Tor even to a greater degree.

[00:15:19] And here's why, because if your body is used to getting food every two hours, you're having that protein pulse that. That, that, that lane Norton before he was a doctor, they figured out and doc dr. Dan, layman's a glove up in Chicago that, you know, the it's very important. Having continuous mTOR turned on actually becomes kind of productive for building muscle.

[00:15:41] The body likes that rhythmicity well, then it's getting that rhythmicity all day long with M Torres turning on amp case turning on, then all of a sudden you don't eat for 12 hours and P K turns on M Tor turns off, but you don't lose muscle because we, I did that show that shows that [00:16:00] Bazell autophagy stimulates protein synthesis when you start eating again the next day or so.

[00:16:07] Yes, absolutely. And this is where I am falling now. I am going back to a more traditional bodybuilding diet where I'm eating every two, two and a half hours during my eating window, I would say six a to six P. And then after that, I'm not eating again until the next day. And I predict that I will build muscle I'll regain muscle, but I still maintain the important anti-aging aspects I want from time restricted feeding.

[00:16:36] So, absolutely absolutely. Good question. Um, okay. So how do you calculate calories typically? I know, I know there's a, a lot of people and again, I don't expect you to give a one size fits all because we just dispelled it. There is one size fits all, but if somebody is trying to dial in, they're trying to lose body fat.

[00:16:58] Um, is there, uh, is [00:17:00] there a way to go pounds, times X equals the number of calories you should start at and then look at what's happening over the course of a couple of weeks and either dial it up or dial it back?

[00:17:09] Bill Tocco: [00:17:09] Well, you know what, Carl, I do that kind of, but I really don't ever. Me personally, the way I, I I've been doing my calculations for coaching and on myself is I never really, I always just really do it based on the macros and then like, whatever calories I can always figure out what the calories are.

[00:17:26] I started with the amount of protein that person should be eating. And then, like we were talking about previous on the carbs and fats, I kind of worked out. So I don't really go by a formula as far as the overall calories, because. I think calories are really the most important thing. I think manipulating each macronutrient counterpart is the way to go.

[00:17:45] At least what I've seen and what I've worked with and varying those three parts of the equation, instead of just saying, Oh, overall calories, because we can always get into the argument of, um, people say, well, it's calories in calories. I'll kind of resentment in [00:18:00] my rebuttal to that. That is, let's say if we took two human beings and they're both twins, identical DNA.

[00:18:06] And everything, but identical metabolisms and this guy over here is telling me, and I've had this argument or discussion where, Oh, it's just calories in calories out when you take this twin and you and you die and you know, we'll do it, make it for 12 weeks. I'll take this one. You can go ahead and feed them.

[00:18:21] Your gummy bears, 2000 calories, and I'm going to feed them 2000. Okay. Calories are flaming Yon and say rice or big potato. Who's going to have a better body composition. Who's going to have more of insulin's, uh, stability. Throughout the day, not only to have energy, but to be in a state where you're losing body fat and gaining muscle.

[00:18:39] I think the person I'm working with is going to be coming out on top in that regard.

[00:18:45] Carl Lanore: [00:18:45] Yeah, no, I agree. I agree. And again, this is the discussion is hard because people want to be told what to do and you can't really tell people what to do when it comes to diet. Because everyone's different and [00:19:00] they're different at different ages.

[00:19:01] And they're also different based on their level of stress in their lives and so on. Um, I've got lots more questions and we're getting lots of questions from the, from the viewers. We're going to take a quick commercial break. When we come back, we're going to pick up on the other side. We're talking about the bodybuilding diet today, and we're talking with bill Toko.

[00:19:19] I want to give you his information about his website, his website, his war room, nutrition.com. All one word, w a R R O O M. nutrition.com is Instagram is at war room nutrition. He has some amazing athletes. When you look at them, you realize that. They are getting amazing guidance on their diet, because let me tell you something.

[00:19:45] I realize now at this stage of the game, I still carry a considerable amount of muscle at my age. And if I got lean, I would look great. That's the only difference if I got lean I'd look great, but because I'm not leaning right now, I'm all covered up by. Subcutaneous fat. [00:20:00] I don't look great. So it really comes down to diet.

[00:20:03] The body you're searching for is under there. It's there right now, but chiseling away, what's covering it up, takes the right type of nutritional approach. And you can learn by going to war room, nutrition.com and learning more. Stay tuned. We'll be right back with more super human radio.

[00:20:25] Spit that out right now. This is the superhuman channel. Welcome back. We're talking with bill Toko. He is a marvelous, a guy who works with athletes and dials in their diets so that they can achieve the. Uh, physical goals, whether that be competing or just to look like somebody who could get up on stage.

[00:20:46] And we all want to look like that. The only people who don't want to look like that are the people who don't think it's possible. So they it's a form of cognitive dissonance. I would never want to look like that, but that's just not true. Deep down inside. Everybody wants to look ripped and [00:21:00] lean and healthy.

[00:21:01] So let's talk a little bit about, um, real quick. I'm changing things up in the direction we're talking, but since we're talking about macros and stuff, when we look at the bodybuilders of the SD gear, Um, aside from the, the level of drug use, what we also noticed is that there was a complete lack of distended stomach.

[00:21:21] In fact, there was a posed back in the day called the vacuum pose, which very few bodybuilders could do today, where the athlete would after dieting and prepping to get on stage would be completely empty and he would suck, or she would suck their stomach in where it was actually. Concave and compare that to today's bodybuilder, who has a completely distended stomach.

[00:21:45] Gustavo Dell comes to mind where he looked like he was wearing a tortoise shell when he was on the Olympia stage. I seem to think that that's because carbohydrate consumption has quadrupled in [00:22:00] modern bodybuilders compared to those guys back then, like Vince Geronda, who was saying, you know, low carb, low carb.

[00:22:06] I think, I think Vince said under 120 grams a day of carbs and it was all complex. It wasn't, you know, sugars and stuff like that. But what do you think about carbohydrates? They're obviously important, but are people consuming way too much today? I think

[00:22:19] Bill Tocco: [00:22:19] as far as, uh, saying the bodybuilders, looking to see distended, I, I think it's consumption of carbohydrates, not only an off season stretching their stomachs inward or outward from the inside, but I think when they're doing their last week of prep, a lot of people tend to now want to be full, full, full, full.

[00:22:43] And I think that's really not just only there. It's not really their fault. I think that's what the judging. It's kind of lean towards now is a real grill full round look where I'm saying in the nineties, it was a little bit more on the CRISPR side and they were going more for a grainy, [00:23:00] hard, crazy condition, uh, without being too full.

[00:23:05] But just, just today, point to where you still have that grainy conditioning, where you can, you can still do a vacuum hose on a front door buys. Let's say for instance, um, I think that's where it's a little bit different now is the really, really over carving. But I don't really think it's it's as much fault of the athlete as it is the judge.

[00:23:22] The judging plays a big role in that because they're, the people are up there on stage, are going to do what the judges are kind of looking for. So just,

[00:23:31] Carl Lanore: [00:23:31] this is a great time to inject this question from Jeff Clifton. He says, I just had my genome plate report done. They used my 23 and me, and it said that he needs 60% carbs, 25% protein and 15% fats after listening to carbs, getting vilified.

[00:23:47] I have no idea what to try. I think that taking guidance for both. I mean, short of being MTHFR, not having the methylation gene for [00:24:00] certain B vitamins, I think taking, uh, I think, I think taking advice from genetic testing for how you should eat and what you should supplement is a huge mistake. It's a huge mistake because you have to remember through evolution with the reason we are here today.

[00:24:16] And we are considered top of the food chain is because we were able to survive on just about anything. I mean, short of eating would like a terabyte. We were opportunistic. If we found animals, we ate that. If we found plants, we ate that. If we found mushrooms, we ate that. So this notion that there's the perfect human diet.

[00:24:36] It is a very, very difficult, uh, uh, proposition in my humble opinion with that being said, how could we need 60% carbohydrates in the winter time? Remember all carbohydrates are plants, all of them named me an animal carbide.

[00:24:54] Bill Tocco: [00:24:54] Well, there isn't one.

[00:24:55] Carl Lanore: [00:24:55] Right? So, so how did, how did we eat a perfect diet [00:25:00] in the winter?

[00:25:02] Bill Tocco: [00:25:02] Correct.

[00:25:03] Carl Lanore: [00:25:03] I mean, I think this is Jeff. I think it's a waste of time having them dictate that I think it's nonsense. I think that they're folding in there that protein has been vilified more than carbohydrates, uh, in, in mainstream medicine today. I think it's complete BS, complete BS.

[00:25:21] Bill Tocco: [00:25:21] I think Carolyn and to that too, it's like, I've seen so many things that look great in a study and I love to read studies.

[00:25:28] And I love when a new supplement comes out or a training, some training aspect, and you see all these great data from the study, but then, you know, a lot of these guys that come up with the studies and do the research, they're really not in the field, implementing this stuff and try and get themselves when we get ahold of it.

[00:25:43] And we implement it in the field. Sometimes it doesn't translate, even though the data is looking solid. In the, in the, in the study and it's not always transferable into the field and you're not always going to get the same result as you do with the study. That's just inevitable.

[00:26:00] [00:26:00] Carl Lanore: [00:26:00] No, I, I agree with you a hundred percent.

[00:26:01] So let's, let's talk about a couple of other things. Now let's talk about, everybody says the diet that works best for you is the one that you'll stick with. And that's obviously true because if you do a diet that works for you, but you don't, you only stick with it for two weeks. You're not going to see any changes.

[00:26:17] And people are very impatient. They want results now. So they hop from thing to thing before they find out what they're doing, if it's working or not. What about the mental aspect of dieting that has to play a huge role in the success of, of clients, of yours or, or people in general?

[00:26:36] Bill Tocco: [00:26:36] I think all it, I think the mental aspect is enormous.

[00:26:40] A factor because when someone has never really felt uncomfortable due to a diet, they really have a feeling of, uh, it's a very foreign feeling to them and they really don't know what to do cause they haven't been in that situation. Now that can be, there can be so [00:27:00] many factors because they've always been very full on eating, uh, you know, things that really fill them up a lot of carbs and lots of, lots of sugars and things like that.

[00:27:08] And also also there can be things from their childhood where they would have grown up really comfortably. That might sound weird, but there's people I know that grew up very comfortable. And so when they're uncomfortable, I mean, they're a completely different person. So there can be many aspects that makes someone feel those feelings, but when you diet, um, the mental aspect is, is very, very large.

[00:27:31] Now when you're dieting for a competition, a lot of people diet, but they really never achieved that. Peeled conditioning because they're not really willing to go past that line, that thin line where people, when you cross that line and you're in a whole completely different realm, you feel like you're basically a being tortured most of the day there's times when you feel okay.

[00:27:56] And then there's times where you feel terrible the whole day. That's when you [00:28:00] get extremely low body fat levels to where, uh, Most people have never, they've never been there. So they don't know what to think of that feeling. And they really don't like it. That's why a lot of people, when they go into it competition, they don't get that success of getting that crazy conditioning because they're not willing to go into that space.

[00:28:20] And that space is on a friendly place to be. But if you do have the mental application to go there and you, and you go completely through it and you're in the best condition. Of your life. And you know that when you enter a show, you're going to be, you know, one of, maybe two or three people that you're in the best condition out of anybody, you can look back at that and feel so fulfilled, number warning, but it's not fun to get there.

[00:28:44] And people only see the end result. They see the pictures on Instagram, they see your stage pictures. They don't understand what suffering you went through to get to that stage, walking through hell. They just don't know.

[00:28:56] Carl Lanore: [00:28:56] And, and it, it has to be suffering because from an evolutionary perspective, you are going [00:29:00] into a realm that your body doesn't want to go to your cause, because remember, We are programmed to consume energy and conserve energy.

[00:29:09] Dr. Daniel Lieberman came on my show. He's the author of the story of the human body. He's a Harvard, uh, uh, anthropology professor. Guy's brilliant. And he said, Carl, if there's two coconut trees, And you have a Hunter gatherer population and you put an escalator in front of the, the coconut tree on the left.

[00:29:27] They'll start taking the escalator. They're not gonna keep climbing because we are programmed to consume energy and conserve energy. And that's why obesity is a bigger problem today than starvation, which was in the twenties and early 19 hundreds. And so on, people were underweight. Um, but with that being said, you're right.

[00:29:46] I think I can share a story. Uh, that portal bill told me one time when he was getting ready for, uh, an Olympia competition and he had cut his face back so far cause he was trying to get peeled [00:30:00] and. He went into train legs one day and he did his first set of warmups squats. And all of a sudden, out of nowhere, he just broke out crying and he didn't know what was going on.

[00:30:10] He was like, he got so emotional. He ended up not training. He ended up going home and he had to create, I think it was for olive oil. He said he just, he took like a couple of tablespoons of olive oil and in 10 minutes he felt. Amazing. And so, you know, these are, these are evolutionary safety nets in our body.

[00:30:31] Like when your fat level gets too low, your body doesn't want that. It's like, Hey man, we may have to defend ourselves. We have to hold up in a cave for, for, you know, and people left around and go, Oh, come on Carl, listen, we spent millions of years in that world and now we've spent 40,000 years in this.

[00:30:49] It's like sliver of time compared to the millions. So we are, we are. We are, uh, ancestral crew teachers in a modern world. And so [00:31:00] the body is designed to protect those things. And as you point out, it's painful, look, women lose their period when they get ready for it competition, you know why? Because. The body's going, Holy crap.

[00:31:12] You're going to starve to death. You can't get pregnant. We're shutting that machinery off and they just lose their period. That's called amen area. So it's very extreme. And quite frankly, it's probably the most extreme sport in the world of bodybuilding because there's no off season. You actually train harder in the off season and it's torturous getting ready to get up on stage.

[00:31:33] If you're going to be a competitor today. I agree with that. So the mental aspect is a big thing. Obviously let's see. Rob Robinson Robertson says a distended stomachs have nothing to do with carbohydrates and everything to do with GH and insulin consumption. I don't believe that Rob, uh, um, because, um, Lee priest never had a distended stomach and he used growth.

[00:31:59] So I don't [00:32:00] believe that, um, I, the growth hormone. Only explains a small amount, the Oregon growth that we see, especially in the intestines, dr. MALDI Pasquale came on my show years ago. And we talked about that premise. I don't believe it. And I'll prove it to you right now. Look at the American popular look at the population.

[00:32:22] And in most countries everybody's got a distended stomach. They're not all using growth, hormone and insulin. It's carbohydrate consumption. Absolutely. I, and I, I will defend that. I will defend that because you just have to look at the general population today. There are guys out there that are relatively lean.

[00:32:39] They look like they're six months pregnant. They're not using growth hormone. They're not using insulin. They're just average schmucks getting through the day. So we, the stomach distension goes way, way beyond the bodybuilding world. It's just more profound than the bodybuilding world, because today's bodybuilder is eating five, six, 700 grams of carbohydrates on top of the protein that he's eating back in the day, guys, like [00:33:00] Geronda hundred 20 grams of carbohydrates is all day we eating to build those physiques.

[00:33:05] So I would respectfully disagree, disagree with that assertion. Rob, what do you think, do you want to chime in on that? I, well, I,

[00:33:13] Bill Tocco: [00:33:13] I know that we had talked, uh, kind of off air about them, the whole distension and everything. And I personally think it's over carbohydrates, um, you know, both off season and going into the show.

[00:33:25] So I think, and again, I do put some of the onus on the judging because they want to see every week. So full and everybody's just trying to eat so many grams of carbs to get that full look. The last two to three days before the show. And a lot of times you'll get that distension. They don't have it before that.

[00:33:44] They seem to have it just on that day. Um, so I kind of think it's carbohydrates,

[00:33:49] Carl Lanore: [00:33:49] you're not glycerin. Glycerin is a, is a, an amazing thing in boxing and MMA fighting guys have to make weight. They'll sit in the hot box for days. They'll lose all this water. [00:34:00] They look flat, they get on the scale, they pass, they start taking tablespoons of glycerin and water and they start drinking it.

[00:34:07] And in and overnight they'll put on four or five pounds and it's all muscle waterway. Why not? Why aren't bodybuilders using glycerin or are they.

[00:34:16] Bill Tocco: [00:34:16] Well, I know that it's been popular a couple years ago on some of the pre-workout formulas, uh, more as kind of like a pump product to get that water shuttle them to the muscle.

[00:34:26] Um, but that would be interesting curving up with that. I've never done any experiments myself, but I know what an MMA also wants. They make wait. They're also using an ID, uh, afterwards to, to rehydrate. So I'm not sure if there's a glycerol solution in there. I'm not privy to what's in there, but I know most of them.

[00:34:43] After they make weight. Uh, they're running an Ivy back at the hotel where,

[00:34:47] Carl Lanore: [00:34:47] you know, I'm not a big bodybuilding, efficient auto, but I want to say, and I'll stand to be corrected that Kevin English, when the one 32 class first came out and he took it that first year

[00:34:59] Bill Tocco: [00:34:59] two Oh

[00:34:59] Carl Lanore: [00:34:59] two, [00:35:00] two Oh two. You're right during

[00:35:02] Bill Tocco: [00:35:02] the two Oh two after the two,

[00:35:04] Carl Lanore: [00:35:04] he did that.

[00:35:05] I heard. From Aaron Singerman. I think it was that told me this, that Kevin English did that. He dropped a lot of weight to make the class. And then all he did was use glycerin and water for like the next day or so. And he stepped on stage like 15 pounds heavier than he weighed in the day before.

[00:35:25] Bill Tocco: [00:35:25] So that guy always look so much bigger than his weight too.

[00:35:28] Carl Lanore: [00:35:28] I know, I know he, he had an, uh, a very appealing physique. He had a very big, yeah. Um, so let's see here, we have a couple of the things that I wanted. So how about tips and tricks? Right. So the real big problem with dieting is the momentary, you know, Uh, people will take a cheat meal, make it a cheat day, or they just, they just can't stand that they have to eat something that they know that they shouldn't be eating.

[00:35:51] And it's gotta be counterproductive if you have any tips or tricks to help people get past those.

[00:35:56] Bill Tocco: [00:35:56] Uh, you know, I there's little things. I mean, [00:36:00] obviously, you know, this isn't gonna really last too long, but it's one trick that can get you by at least is to drink a little bit more fluids to make you feel fuller.

[00:36:07] Another thing, get an ice tray. Uh, I like to put a water in there with a little bit of Stevia button, always making sure it's a Stevia extract, not a CBO that has something added to it because sometimes you can get CVS, uh, where something is added to it like dextrose or maltodextrin. You gotta really watch that labeling and put a little bit of that in there with some lemon juice or without lemon juice, either way and freeze those and make little proximal, which are.

[00:36:36] Basically not going to do anything with your insulin. And everybody knows that I, a lot of people refer to me as a sugar Nazi because I'm always very anti sugar and low inflammation. Keep the insulin staple, especially if you're trying to lose that. He said, you got to have that going for you. So that's one of the tricks that I like.

[00:36:54] Carl Lanore: [00:36:54] Um, I want to take a quick commercial break. When we come back, I want to ask you about a couple of things, dairy and alcohol [00:37:00] specifically, and where you fall on these. We're talking right now with bill Toko. His website is war room, nutrition.com. You can find them on Instagram at war room nutrition. If you go to his Instagram page, you're going to see some of the most ripped.

[00:37:14] Most appealing physiques that you've ever seen, and they would not be visible if it would not fit his success in dialing in their diets, stay tuned. We'll be right back.

[00:37:28] Bear. The experience, the strongest radio allowable by law will be revealed.

[00:37:37] Move over superheroes. This is this superhuman channel. Welcome back. So now we're going to talk about different types of foods and things that people seem to think are bad for you. If you're dieting. What about dairy? What's your opinion of dairy? Well,

[00:37:55] Bill Tocco: [00:37:55] dairy. I'm not a huge fan personally in area, and I know that, uh, [00:38:00] some of the obviously lactose isn't very agreeing with a lot of people.

[00:38:04] And I think there is a little bit of an insulin response there as well. So I tend to steer people away from it and myself as well. But some people, you know, like other fruits handle it better than others. I personally am not a big fan of dairy. Um, because of lactose

[00:38:20] Carl Lanore: [00:38:20] there's actually insulin in dairy.

[00:38:24] Bill Tocco: [00:38:24] Oh, maybe that's maybe that's

[00:38:25] Carl Lanore: [00:38:25] why.

[00:38:28] They discovered that, uh, people who had type one diabetes and they were able to drink milk and not need insulin. Cause it was

[00:38:41] Bill Tocco: [00:38:41] actually lower in their blood sugar.

[00:38:43] Carl Lanore: [00:38:43] Well, because yeah, because there's everything in milk that the baby needs, right. The baby doesn't have enzymes yet, and it doesn't have a lot of hormonal responses and so on.

[00:38:52] So the mother's milk has to deliver that human breast milk and bovine breast milk. So there, there are hormones in these, uh, [00:39:00] in, in, uh, in cows milk. They're very similar to. Human milk, but you're in much larger quantities. So there's probably something to what you're saying. What about alcohol? I kind of think alcohol is a double whammy.

[00:39:12] It's not just about calories, but. Alcohol can act like estrogen, alcohol blunts, the, uh, uh, both the, uh, production and binding of thyroid hormone. Alcohol to me is like, if you want to lose weight, alcohol doesn't work, but somebody likes to have a drink. Maybe, you know, you and I are Italian. Maybe we want a glass of wine or Sambuca one night because we want to feel good about our lives.

[00:39:34] Where do you stand on alcohol?

[00:39:36] Bill Tocco: [00:39:36] I would say, I would say, I always tell people like, uh, Keep it to one or two drinks on a specific night with their cheat meal, if they're going to do it at all, but obviously doing it all the time. I, you know, again, I believe there's also an insulin response there as well, and I'm very big on keeping insulin stable.

[00:39:53] So for me, I totally think it's a negative and plus, I mean, depending on your tolerance, you [00:40:00] can feel like crap the next day. And then. You know, maybe it affects the whole next day as far as cognitive abilities and then saying, well, I don't feel that good. I'm not going to go train today or do cardio or whatever.

[00:40:09] So there's a kind of a ripple effect as well. From that

[00:40:13] Carl Lanore: [00:40:13] we have a sponsor called pure nootropics. They sell a supplement called DHM dihydro. Mirasov tan. It's a, it's a derivative of the Chinese raising tree. It, this is legit. Like I drank 16 ounces of tequila. One night. I took one before and one, after I went to the gym the next day and trained this stuff, I'm asking the company that reps it to do a study, to see if it interferes with protein synthesis, because there's evidence that alcohol can actually negate the protein synthetic response of your workout that morning.

[00:40:47] I thought, man, if, if, if, if it derails the anti protein, synthetic response of alcohol bodybuilders will be buying this stuff so that they can have a drink and not feel bad about going out and having a drink and plus it totally. [00:41:00] There's no hangover when you take this stuff. It's really amazing.

[00:41:02] Bill Tocco: [00:41:02] Wow. That sounds

[00:41:03] Carl Lanore: [00:41:03] amazing.

[00:41:03] Yeah. Yeah. So, um, what about GoTo foods for you? You know, chicken breasts, broccoli, like, do you have favorite foods that you would like to see people eat more of. Uh,

[00:41:15] Bill Tocco: [00:41:15] I would like to see people use a little bit more green vegetables in their diet. A lot of people there's a lot of people that don't like vegetables.

[00:41:23] I'm a big fiber person. Um, uh, I think soluble and insoluble flavor is huge. Not only on health, getting rid of toxins out of your body, but a lot of people don't understand why I sometimes put a fiber supplement in their plan is, uh, there's a lot of bikini competitors. And I really believe if you're taking a good fiber supplement.

[00:41:43] Soluble and insoluble that you can actually make your stomach more flat, believe it or not. So I think vegetables would be a big, uh, thing I'd like to see people well eat more of it's a gold food, a GoTo foods. I like to really mix up. I really like, uh, which people would [00:42:00] really be more open to red meat, um, lean red meats.

[00:42:03] And I know that, you know, extreme amount about it and we've talked about it. Uh, I think there's a lot of. Nutrients and bread meat that you're not going to get another proteins and there's definitely a place for it in your diet.

[00:42:16] Carl Lanore: [00:42:16] And I agree with you. Do you make broccoli? I

[00:42:20] Bill Tocco: [00:42:20] know, but I have a lot of people that around me that know how to make it good.

[00:42:24] I just don't have the patience to

[00:42:25] Carl Lanore: [00:42:25] do. I know. Cause you gotta, you gotta boil it and then you gotta fry it. You swear to tell you, you had to boil it first and then saute it. Yeah. But it's amazing for people who like bitter greens. Um, you know, we, we grew up cause we're Italian. We grew up eating that as kids.

[00:42:37] I'm sure you did too. And I used to, I used to love it when I was a kid as well. What are the, what is

[00:42:42] Bill Tocco: [00:42:42] the stuff that we used to eat called a Monesha and that was basically

[00:42:46] Carl Lanore: [00:42:46] seaweed. Yeah. Boil seaweed. Yeah. See, because your people are from Sicily and my people from Calabria, which you, you know, you came from an eye, your people came from an Island and we came from a sea port town.

[00:42:58] So lots of fish and lots of seaweed. Yes, [00:43:00] absolutely.

[00:43:00] Bill Tocco: [00:43:00] Yeah.

[00:43:01] Carl Lanore: [00:43:01] Yeah. What are the big mistakes that you see people making when they start their diet?

[00:43:08] Bill Tocco: [00:43:08] Uh, I would say some of the big mistakes I see is them really not being diligent in the very beginning of a diet, trying to get first. Past the first few days, they really kind of give up quickly.

[00:43:20] And I always tell them, you know, if you can get past the first four or five days, you'll get into that rhythm. And I think I see that, um, you know, they seem like they're really willing and eager and they really want to do this, but then they fail early. They'll miss a meal or they'll do something. Right.

[00:43:36] They just need that tiny excuse. Yeah. To push them over the edge to turn them around and kind of walk away from another starting the whole procedure. So I think it's really in the beginning, not following if you're early enough,

[00:43:48] Carl Lanore: [00:43:48] how critical is food prep to the success of a diet for anybody, not even a competitor, you know, but how important is it for you to sit down and think about your meals at least for tomorrow?

[00:43:58] Maybe not for the whole week or maybe for the whole [00:44:00] week. How important is food prep? I think

[00:44:02] Bill Tocco: [00:44:02] it's extremely important, especially if you have a schedule that you're going to be away from home for a long period of time, because then it's got that built in excuse. Well, I didn't have my meal. Let me stop at, uh, whatever burger King or Jack in the box or whatever it may be.

[00:44:18] So I think that Neil prep is extremely important because you're not going to get caught out in the wild without your nutrition, because then you can find a very easy excuse to make a trip to. Some fast food joint, you know,

[00:44:30] Carl Lanore: [00:44:30] what are good, fast food choices. So, so like I'll go to Wendy's and I'll order four large beef Patty.

[00:44:37] There's nothing else. That's a pound of cooked beef or under a pound because it shrinks there's is probably 15% fat. And I don't, obviously I don't drink the juice. I'm not getting the fat, the fat rendered off. When you think about it, um, If you had to walk into a grocery store right now, you had no other choice.

[00:44:55] Maybe you left your, your food home. What items would you [00:45:00] buy? Lean protein. Good carbohydrate, good fat choices.

[00:45:04] Bill Tocco: [00:45:04] Well, for instance, if I had to eat something and I didn't have a lot of time obviously to repair and I just, I can walk in and get it. I think one of the great ones is rotisserie chicken right off the bat.

[00:45:12] One, it tastes great. You got a good protein source. I think for fats, I think a guacamole would be good because you're not going to sit there and fine avocado and half the time to cut that up. So you have whackamole again, read the labels because some of them do add dextrose, you know, which is basically sugar.

[00:45:28] So look at it and make sure there's nothing added to it. And, um, maybe cards, uh, if, if it's, uh, you know, a lot of the bigger chains that are carrying a lot of Zico products, Go get an, even a loaf of bread or a Zico English muffin. I mean, those things are amazing. Flowerless bread and it's a good card source as well.

[00:45:47] And that's quick and easy.

[00:45:49] Carl Lanore: [00:45:49] I think about walnuts. There's a lot of discussion about walnuts. I've been eating walnuts for a long time. Uh, but people say, Oh, it's the wrong kind of Omega three, which is true. It's not the only Omega threes that [00:46:00] your body can use are the ones that are triglyceride bound. The ones that come from fish, believe it or not.

[00:46:04] So the, the mega threes and walnuts are not necessarily beneficial and there are some mega sixes and nines, but I tend to think walnuts are a good fat. Where do you stand on walnuts?

[00:46:15] Bill Tocco: [00:46:15] Actually, I have walnuts in quite a few of my plants. Uh, I have them, uh, switched up with either those or sometimes almonds as well, but I have.

[00:46:24] Use walnuts per probably the fiber last five or six years on myself. And with a lot of my diet clients.

[00:46:30] Carl Lanore: [00:46:30] Yeah. I, I carry, I usually take a quarter cup or I weighed them one ounce of Walnut, put them in a sandwich bag three or four of those. When I do feel like I need a snack and I don't want to go off the reservation.

[00:46:44] I guess I shouldn't have said that the Redskins had to get rid of their name. I shouldn't have used the word reservation. I'm sorry. Yeah, they, any native American, they should have left. They should have left the name alone and just put a potato on the helmet. It's the red skin potato. They shouldn't have been the Washington Redskins.

[00:46:59] They should have put a [00:47:00] potato on the helmet that would have solved the whole problem. Like we're not talking about people. We're talking about potatoes now.

[00:47:04] Bill Tocco: [00:47:04] What they call themselves the Washington football team. I have

[00:47:07] Carl Lanore: [00:47:07] no idea. I have.

[00:47:09] Bill Tocco: [00:47:09] It's very something very simplistic.

[00:47:11] Carl Lanore: [00:47:11] I try not to fill my head with absurdities because there's too many important things in life to worry about.

[00:47:16] So, um, can you stay with me through this next break? Sure. Okay. I just want to take this line. I gotta get this last break. And we started late today cause we had some technical difficulties and I got to run these breaks. Cause that's how the show gets paid for. If we bring you good information, please patronize the sponsors whenever possible.

[00:47:33] We'll be right back with more. Stay tuned. You listening to the superhuman channel. Don't hate us because we feel good.

[00:47:43] Welcome back. We're talking with bill Toko and you can go to his website. War room, nutrition.com. You can also follow him on Instagram at war room nutrition. Uh, you reach out to him if you want help dialing in your diet. A lot of [00:48:00] professionals trust him, and they are rewarded by winning competitions and having bodies that we all wish we had.

[00:48:08] Uh, two last questions, sauna. What do you think about sauna? Do you believe in sauna? Do you think it AIDS in the fat loss portion of dieting? I, um,

[00:48:18] Bill Tocco: [00:48:18] you know what I don't know about AIDS and fat loss, but I know that there's a ton of health benefits to it. So, yeah. Aye. I listen to, I, I'm not sure if you've listened to Rhonda is Rhonda Patrick, dr.

[00:48:31] Rhonda Patrick, are you familiar with

[00:48:32] Carl Lanore: [00:48:32] her? She's talked

[00:48:34] Bill Tocco: [00:48:34] extensively about sauna and extending your life quite a bit. So I've actually been thinking about putting a sauna in here in my house too. Because of that. And I know that the infrared is the very popular as of late. So I know that there's a ton of health benefits as far as life extension and longevity.

[00:48:52] So I urge people to definitely look more, do that. Now, as far as fat loss, I know. I I'm, I'm not too convinced on it, fat [00:49:00] loss portion, but I know that obviously you're sweating and people like, Oh, you know, I want to get in the sauna when I'm during prep. And I, you know, you're just getting rid of some water and you're probably going to get a little bit of a rebound effect.

[00:49:11] Like, as in, when you take a diuretic, you're going to hold water a couple of days later. Uh, but the health benefits, I know there are numerous and like again, you know, Rhonda, Patrick has talked extensively about it and, uh, I definitely trust her opinion and hold it in high regard.

[00:49:25] Carl Lanore: [00:49:25] Yeah. I have one at home and I love sauna.

[00:49:27] I used to get in the sauna after training and then into an ice cold shower after that. And it would really like the rest of the day. I just felt amazing. We have a sponsor called good health sauna. That's got a ridiculous 25% off in 18 months. Same as cash.

[00:49:42] Bill Tocco: [00:49:42] And do you, is that the kind you have at your house or no?

[00:49:45] Carl Lanore: [00:49:45] Yeah. Yeah. And it's infrared fantastic sauna at very, very low to no EMF. They don't use any kind of toxins in the wood, no glues and nothing like that. No, they really, really do their homework. They have the best [00:50:00] life, like lifetime warranty in the industry. And my audience, if you go to good health saunas.com.

[00:50:08] We'll go to  dot net and click the good health sauna banner ad and tell them that you're from the show. Just tell them how much you want to pay a month. They'll put you in a sauna, tell them this is all one. I want to pay this much a month. They'll be like, okay, we'll ship you this on a next week.

[00:50:22] Bill Tocco: [00:50:22] Okay. Now let me ask you this question.

[00:50:24] How is the setup? Once you get it.

[00:50:26] Carl Lanore: [00:50:26] Oh, it, it snaps together really easily. The top literally just drops down on it. The wall snapped together. I mean, set up is like literally from the time that it's in and it's a very small footprint. The two men sauna, two person sauna is a very, very small footprint. You could put it in your bedroom.

[00:50:41] Like a lot of people like, well, I don't know where I'd put it, put it in your bedroom, especially if you have master bath is right off your bedroom, but what's that?

[00:50:49] Bill Tocco: [00:50:49] No one special electrical outlets. No,

[00:50:52] Carl Lanore: [00:50:52] they're one, 10 and 10. Yeah. And

[00:50:55] Bill Tocco: [00:50:55] so should I call them and impersonate your voice?

[00:50:57] Carl Lanore: [00:50:57] Yeah, yeah. Do that.

[00:50:59] Bill Tocco: [00:50:59] Yeah. I moved to [00:51:00] Detroit. Send it over here.

[00:51:00] Carl Lanore: [00:51:00] Send it over here now.

[00:51:02] Bill Tocco: [00:51:02] I'll, I'll look into that. If they're, if they're that flexible.

[00:51:04] Carl Lanore: [00:51:04] Yeah. Flexible. They have a great product. Uh, they're easy to do business with the product snaps together. And it's a selling feature. Like you leave it behind, you sell the house.

[00:51:13] You say to the people look, the sauna stays like, because then you just got a new one. Here's a, this is a good one. So Jennifer Rani, uh, storing says helps eliminate toxins passively. Yes, sweating does. And Rhonda Patrick talks about the fact that sauna is an exercise mimetic. So it conveys a lot of the same benefits that just taking a good 20 minute walk does.

[00:51:37] So it, it, it it's really amazing. I love sauna. I've been sitting in saunas since I was a young man. I think the first time I got into a sauna was probably when I was maybe 17 years old and I've been doing it ever since. I just fell in love with

[00:51:51] Bill Tocco: [00:51:51] so never seen what a Jennifer looks like by the way.

[00:51:54] Carl Lanore: [00:51:54] No, I haven't.

[00:51:54] As she looked ripped in

[00:51:55] Bill Tocco: [00:51:55] amazing ample again, we worked together last year when she did, uh, the masters [00:52:00] nationals figure. Awesome.

[00:52:02] Carl Lanore: [00:52:02] Jennifer would you post your Instagram so I can share it with people and they can go and see

[00:52:07] Bill Tocco: [00:52:07] amazing. Yeah. And I also not only did her nutrition, but I actually she's in the area and I physically trained her as well.

[00:52:14] And she is very strong and she does not quit that's for sure. Awesome athlete.

[00:52:19] Carl Lanore: [00:52:19] Where, where is in the area for you for people who are watching or listening right now, who think that they would love to train? Have you trained them as well? Where are you?

[00:52:27] Bill Tocco: [00:52:27] We're right outside of Detroit. In Royal Oak, Michigan.

[00:52:31] Okay. Uh, we're just basically, I don't know, two, three miles from eight mile road in Detroit. So

[00:52:37] Carl Lanore: [00:52:37] I love that Royal Oak area. I love that. Yeah.

[00:52:40] Bill Tocco: [00:52:40] Yeah. Real close to that. There's a lot of good gems around here. We're very fortunate and I met Royal Oak gym, which. Has been there a long time. It was previously a Gold's gym, uh, about 20 years ago.

[00:52:52] And now it's just a whirl up gym. There's a lot of old Nautilus equipment. Uh, As Shelby, my training partner. I know that [00:53:00] you know, who shall be starting.

[00:53:01] Carl Lanore: [00:53:01] Yeah. Nothing, nothing amazing asphalt, nothing amazing. Yeah.

[00:53:05] Bill Tocco: [00:53:05] He refers to it, the museum, cause they're such old equipment, but it's, it's the best. It's probably the best gym I've ever trained in.

[00:53:13] And I used to have a Gold's gym. Venice was one of my sponsors when I was skateboarding, bro. So I've been to a lot of good gyms. I know about good gyms and this

[00:53:22] Carl Lanore: [00:53:22] is a damn good gym here. So here's a funny story. So my nephew, uh, was over last week and we were talking about you because him and his friend are into skateboarding.

[00:53:32] And so now I realize I probably mispronounced your name, but. I said, this guy is going to be on my show next week. And they were like, who is he? I said, he used to be like a famous skateboarder. He was like the best in the country. And we Googled, and there are still skateboards being sold with your name on it.

[00:53:52] Bill Tocco: [00:53:52] Well, yeah, they're, you know, we just did the last couple of years, we've had some come out different companies contact me and want to do collect your additions. So we [00:54:00] just had one out. Uh, the latest one is a place in Chicago called character skateboards. Character skateboards.com. That's where my latest board is at and the skate park over here, which owns a board company to modern skateboard, uh, modern skate and surf.

[00:54:15] They put a board out for me. And some of these additions that came out recently have done real well with the older collectors. Um, there's people. And it's crazy that prompts me. And, you know, I haven't competed in, I mean, since like, you know, the early nineties and skateboarding, but they still, I mean, they know more about me than me.

[00:54:32] It's. It's crazy. They really know they're.

[00:54:35] Carl Lanore: [00:54:35] So how old were you when you were, when you were a skateboard champion? Uh,

[00:54:39] Bill Tocco: [00:54:39] I was just turning 18. Well, I was 17 when I won the national amateur championships and then I turned pro shortly after that. Right before I was turning 18. That's what kind of turned me pro that, that contest.

[00:54:53] I was a vertical skateboarder with on the big ramps.

[00:54:56] Carl Lanore: [00:54:56] Oh,

[00:54:57] Bill Tocco: [00:54:57] no, not in the street, which is a whole completely different

[00:54:59] Carl Lanore: [00:54:59] answer. [00:55:00] In other words, like the halfpipe, they call it right.

[00:55:02] Bill Tocco: [00:55:02] Gold. Dennis was one of my sponsors and I was so giddy about that because even though I was skateboarding, I was a big fan of bodybuilding, so,

[00:55:13] Carl Lanore: [00:55:13] Oh, I hope we didn't lose you too long.

[00:55:16] Bill Tocco: [00:55:16] She was a corporate.

[00:55:18] Carl Lanore: [00:55:18] And, um, who, who was your sponsor? You dropped out there. Who was your sponsor

[00:55:22] Bill Tocco: [00:55:22] role? Gold's

[00:55:22] Carl Lanore: [00:55:22] gym. Venice. Okay. Okay. And they

[00:55:25] Bill Tocco: [00:55:25] had brought me in actually I had a knee injury and they brought me there to rehab. So I was spending my time in Venice. I was living in the Marina Pacific Kotel, which was in Venice.

[00:55:34] And then I would skate right to Gold's gym. And then I had access to all kinds of trainers. Chris's CDOT was. A in house nutritionist, then he had his own office there. Wow. I learned a lot from him. I mean, I met John, your friend and also John Romano. Yeah. He actually was the first person I ever worked with, uh, for a diet who did a diet for me.

[00:55:55] Carl Lanore: [00:55:55] Yeah. Wow. That's so cool. So what, so were you featured on MTV [00:56:00] or anything like that back then?

[00:56:01] Bill Tocco: [00:56:01] Uh, I've been in some different commercials that I've been on numerous TV spots.

[00:56:05] Carl Lanore: [00:56:05] Yeah. Do you still get on the board once in a while?

[00:56:09] Bill Tocco: [00:56:09] Actually. Yeah, I was doing it a lot, quite a bit more last summer, but I did have a partial tear of my meniscus in my left knee.

[00:56:16] So I had took some time off, but, uh, the skate park where I, um, live it's an indoor park. They had built a big vertical ramp. Which there's not really many of them around because a lot of it's really based in a Street's gaining. So when they built that I was all in and started skating a little bit at vertigo.

[00:56:32] Yeah.

[00:56:33] Carl Lanore: [00:56:33] Is that, is that more difficult to do than say like the skate parks that these concrete skate parks where everything kind of flows together? Okay.

[00:56:41] Bill Tocco: [00:56:41] Uh, well, it's similar, but these, this is a little bit different because you're on one set structure. It's not like a big flow run. And this rent that we skate on and the new skate park, I mean it's 13 and a half feet

[00:56:54] Carl Lanore: [00:56:54] tall.

[00:56:55] That's that's my point. You're like, you're so high up

[00:56:57] Bill Tocco: [00:56:57] in the it's very tall. So back when I [00:57:00] used to do it as an amateur and a professional, I mean, You know, there's varying degrees of having to be tough, but every day that we went out there and we skated for probably four to six hours a day at that high of, you know, high of a level of thing, the top 20 people in the world doing it at the time, there was a very degree of danger to this.

[00:57:20] So basically every day, I mean, you could make one slight error and you you're 10 feet above a ramp. That's 12 feet tall. You're. 20 plus feet in the air. One thing can go wrong and you're going to have a big problem on your hands. So it took

[00:57:34] Carl Lanore: [00:57:34] a lot of balls

[00:57:35] Bill Tocco: [00:57:35] to do that kind of thing and, uh, uh, uh, a crazy mental application to be wired in, to not make those tiny mistakes.

[00:57:43] Carl Lanore: [00:57:43] So we know a lot of extreme athletes, you know, uh, these X games and stuff like that. They talk about flow. Cool. Like when you're in that zone where it's like, you're just, everything is just working. And do you remember being in [00:58:00] that zone?

[00:58:01] Bill Tocco: [00:58:01] Yes, I do. And it's a, you know, I mean, Michael Jordan has talked extensively about it and it's just that you have such a belief before you enter the, either the bowl or the ramp that you have everything so unlocked that nothing is going to deter you from making that run.

[00:58:17] Now that sometimes separates people from. Being a champion, not a champion because they don't have the commitment to say to themselves, no matter what I'm making this trip. So what happens is they hold themselves back and it's like, I would say you took a newspaper and you roll it up real tight and you go to SWAT a fly.

[00:58:36] Well, think about the person and the human body being that piece of it. Newspaper rolled up and you're smashing it all at one time against the cement surface from 20 feet in the air or on a ramp. That's really what you have to look forward to if you do something wrong. So some people don't want to go to that area, just like in dieting.

[00:58:57] I don't want to go into that zone [00:59:00] once you get to that. Well, because there is big consequences to pay, and if you're not 100% convinced that you can do it, then you're really going to have problems. I mean, I could get on a lie detector test and they would play say for instance, before I made a run for my national championship winning run, And they could say, are you going to fall in?

[00:59:19] And it would be a hundred percent. I would pass a lie detector test. No, and no one's going to stop me on this. That's how convinced I was. So I think the power of the mind is just so on tapped and people really don't understand wrong. And it's like, I used to listen to your show back in the beginning.

[00:59:35] Let's say when I started listening 2008, I would listen. And I said, one day, I'm going to not be on the show. What I actually said Carlos, one day, I'm going to know Carl and all, and in turn. That would probably bring me on the show. I didn't need to solicit you to come on the show because I knew one day I was convinced that I was going to meet you have a relationship with you first and then maybe, okay.

[00:59:56] Then maybe expand to the show which it kind of did because, you know, [01:00:00] we had a mutual friend that kind of rides together right over it. And then I had with my heart, but when you're convincing just of something so much and you believe it's so deeply

[01:00:11] Carl Lanore: [01:00:11] the

[01:00:11] Bill Tocco: [01:00:11] power of the mind when you put those vibes in that.

[01:00:14] That energy into the air. It's like into the ether. Eventually it will happen. And then I think into my life

[01:00:23] Carl Lanore: [01:00:23] takes that to happen. And then to happen again for you to actually trust it too, a lot of people don't trust their intuition. They don't trust, you know, I mean, really, it's an amazing, it's an amazing thing.

[01:00:35] So I have to ask you this question and I know it sounds like a non-sequitur, but it's not. When you were young, did you do any LSD? No,

[01:00:44] Bill Tocco: [01:00:44] but I did experiment with some things that were similar to that later. A little bit later on when I was a little bit, uh, not my teens, but a little bit older while I was skateboarding stuff that can, that can, can be considered.

[01:00:58] A hallucinogenic. Yes.

[01:01:00] [01:01:00] Carl Lanore: [01:01:00] Okay. Okay. Yeah. I mean, cause I, I, my audience knows this and you probably know this too, cause I've mentioned it dozens of times, but I did a lot of LSD in high school and it, and now that I'm understanding a lot of the things I've done in my life and how. I could see where an industry was going to go.

[01:01:16] When I was involved in a particular industry, uh, had a lot to do with it's the same thing as flow state. It's the same thing, you know, I'm not saying that I can manifest anything I want in my life. I thought what I'm saying, I have to. Be 100% connected spiritually and mentally to that idea. And then I can get there.

[01:01:35] So it's just not, I can't just sit down and say, Oh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna get a million dollars next week. And believe it, believe it, believe it like that, that doesn't work. It's got to align with your values. It's got to align with your talents. It's got to align with your intelligence. It's got a lot, yeah.

[01:01:48] With everything, but it's interesting because you're right. You know, um, like, like, uh, riding a motorcycle. At very high speeds. [01:02:00] If you, for a moment, doubt. Your capabilities. I could feel it. The bikes, the bikes not leaning the way I want it to. There's a, there's a phenomenon and writing called object fixation.

[01:02:14] It's not always an object. It's sometimes it's a thought that you become fixated on all of a sudden you feel like you can't, you're not going to be able to do this. Like I got to stop. I'm going to fall off the bike. And it's the belief that you're not going to have that. Happened to you that carries you through high speeds.

[01:02:31] And, and so it's the same thing as like, you're talking about like, you're up there in the air. You can't think like, man, what if I fall that can't even come into your mind, you have to believe with every fiber of your being that that's just not even an option that's not gonna happen. Yes.

[01:02:45] Bill Tocco: [01:02:45] And, and, and, you know, if you really want to get a little bit more technical when your, your subconscious brain, uh, you know, it doesn't know the difference between a fiction and reality.

[01:02:56] So if you're continually giving it positive [01:03:00] thoughts and inventing phrases that you want to come so pass, you can keep putting that in there. Okay. Over and over. And it does manifest. It's a really amazing how that works. It really does work. And I used to do that a lot and I still do it to this day.

[01:03:20] Carl Lanore: [01:03:20] Yeah.

[01:03:20] Yeah. That's awesome. This has been a fun discussion. I really enjoyed it. We'll definitely get you back on the air. If you have questions for bill, send them to on This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it., and we'll get them back on the air to answer your questions. I tried to cover as much ground as possible, but I'm sure I've missed some things.

[01:03:37] Uh, thanks for being patient today. The show started a little late, but I think we, uh, we delivered a good show. Thanks for being here today, bill.

[01:03:44] Bill Tocco: [01:03:44] Oh, I've been waiting to at least 10 years.

[01:03:48] Carl Lanore: [01:03:48] And so hopefully we'll get together and break bread. You know what I mean? I like that a lot. I was like,

[01:03:53] Bill Tocco: [01:03:53] Oh, I would love it, girl.

[01:03:54] Thank you so much for having me on.

[01:03:55] Carl Lanore: [01:03:55] I really appreciate it. And thanks to everybody who watched today and participated as questions [01:04:00] tomorrow is going to be a really good show. We're going to talk about how sodium. Can actually influence Katie and rhythm and the super charismatic nucleus, which means that people who are consuming large amounts of sodium may actually suffer from diseases.

[01:04:16] Not because of the sodium, but because it's making their bodies suffer the same effects as people who work shift work. This is really going to be interesting tomorrow. So don't forget to tune in for that. Please share the show, help someone, you know, and help me too at the same time. And we'll see you tomorrow with more super Yuma radio.

[01:04:34] Thank you for being here

[01:04:35] Bill Tocco: [01:04:35] then the superhuman

[01:04:36] Carl Lanore: [01:04:36] radio. There you go. Thank you. I see everybody tomorrow. Thank you very much. [01:05:00]