[00:00:00] Carl Lanore: [00:00:00] hey, Hey, welcome back to another episode of super human radio. We're supposed to be doing your show, uh, with, uh, dr. Mulana Morgenstern. I think that she's actually online now. Hold on one second, which would make my life a lot easier because you don't have to listen.

[00:00:19] Dr. Milana Frenkel-Morgenstern, PhD: [00:00:19] Hello. Can you hear me name? Hello? Yeah, I can hear you. The problem is I'm outside. I I'm in brick now in the elevator.

[00:00:32] Carl Lanore: [00:00:32] Okay. Well, when you're, when you, when you get inside, just, just reconnect. Okay.

[00:00:37] Dr. Milana Frenkel-Morgenstern, PhD: [00:00:37] Yeah. It's just the woman. It's

[00:00:39] Carl Lanore: [00:00:39] okay. Thank you.

[00:00:40] Dr. Milana Frenkel-Morgenstern, PhD: [00:00:40] Thank you. Thank you.

[00:00:46] Carl Lanore: [00:00:46] Well, that's better than I had hoped for. I didn't think she was gonna make it. Uh, we've been trying to reach her. I've been calling her she's in Israel, obviously the time difference. Uh, so we'll give her a little time to get set up in her, uh, flat and [00:01:00] get back to us, going to be a good show. Uh, before we do anything else, I have to thank my title sponsor, legendary foods, eat legendary.com.

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[00:01:32] If you, you would think there's a ton of sugar in them, but there's not eat legendary.com SHR 10, 10% off the entire line by using that code. You're not only saved 10%, but you tell them that you're a fan of superhuman radio. So check it out. You know, I've been talking about the importance of vitamin D in this COVID epidemic since March, before anybody else.

[00:01:57] I wrote a very well thought out study. Some [00:02:00] people thought it was too technical that showed that. 25 hydroxy D levels and LL three seven levels, which are both, uh, happened in tandem. When you raised 25, when you raised vitamin D levels, Koa calciferol have both a protective effect against even getting the virus, but also a greater likelihood that you'll live through it.

[00:02:26] And now science is proving it. When we get dr. Morgan on. She's going to talk about a study that her group did, where they looked at this information and found a connection between the protective benefits of 25 hydroxy OHD, uh, that people didn't catch the virus. This is really interesting. And so we'll talk to her and just amendment, when she, uh, gets it set up later in the show, we're going to talk about a unique approach to osteoarthritis that nobody's talking about.

[00:03:00] [00:03:00] A lot of people think osteoarthritis is just from mechanical loading of the body. It's not, and now we've found a new player in not only preventing osteoarthritis, but possibly reversing it. And I have some interesting questions for the scientist. You'll figure it out. Once we get started, where I'm going with it, of course you can always post any of your questions while we're doing the show and we'll work them into the show.

[00:03:25] I promise you that. And then, um, also tomorrow we have a great show of fathers and sons. It's a new series that I started. Ben Greenfield will be my first guest. And we're going to talk about raising boys in this world today.

[00:03:44] Uh, men are under assault. I don't care who you talk to. It's true. Um, more men are institutionalized. Uh, In jail, addicted to drugs and alcohol commit suicide, and something is happening to men. [00:04:00] It starts when they're boys, a lot of people, point to fatherless homes as being a big contributor. What about fathers who actually take part in raising the kids, children?

[00:04:11] How, how do they, what did they do differently? What do they want to achieve? And so Ben Greenfield was going to be our first guest tomorrow. We have Mark Bell lined up. We have. Um, so several big names, uh, uh, uh, Chris Duffin, I believe, uh, from Kabuki strength. Uh, we've got a bunch of people that I admire. I, and they have boys and they are raising strong boys to be strong men, which is contrary today.

[00:04:42] Um, raising a boy that doesn't want to doesn't need a safe space because someone says something hurtful. Uh, that series starts tomorrow. Don't miss that. Sorry, I'm having to clear my throat a lot today. Um, also if the show has ever done [00:05:00] anything good for you, uh, I would like you to go to the URL, tap.bio/super human radio and upload your video and tell me in three minutes or less your personal superhuman radio story, how the show.

[00:05:18] Has helped you I'd appreciate it. If you did that. My guest this year. Hold on a second. Let me get back on here. How you document CERN? Hello? Hello? Hello.

[00:05:28] Dr. Milana Frenkel-Morgenstern, PhD: [00:05:28] How long did I meet you? I'm fine. I'm fine.

[00:05:34] Carl Lanore: [00:05:34] So

[00:05:39] Oh, okay. Okay. So, uh,

[00:05:42] Dr. Milana Frenkel-Morgenstern, PhD: [00:05:42] me have some vitamin D

[00:05:44] Carl Lanore: [00:05:44] yeah, no vitamin D. So we're big fans of vitamin D. In fact, I wrote an article in March of this year about the protective effects of vitamin D against retroviruses. Um, and so vitamin D is very important, but I think your research is even [00:06:00] better than a lot of the stuff that I've read.

[00:06:02] So before, before we get into your specific research, Tell me a little bit about why, what, what research was out there already that you felt compelled to do this paper?

[00:06:14] Dr. Milana Frenkel-Morgenstern, PhD: [00:06:14] Yeah, so I can, uh, yeah, I can start from, uh, who I am. Uh, I'm dr. Morgan stone. I did my PhD in the vitamins to science in Israel. I did my post doctoral studies and the Weitzman, first of all.

[00:06:33] And then they went to the Spanish national cancer since then. And my, uh, this is the computational biology and complex diseases. So, uh, uh, from March nine, uh, 20:20 AM. I love, uh, the faculty of medicine of the Parallon university. We all decided to [00:07:00] dedicate ourselves our expertise to the COVID-19 study.

[00:07:05] And then have you started it? They use the computational biology for different, uh, studies. Uh, and one of the studies was using, uh, Bishop elevation, uh, from  help system. In Israel, this is, um, a health insurance organization and they have about a half million of users and, um, uh, customers, um, uh, they go 22, uh, eh, COVID patients.

[00:07:44] So together with my friend, dr. Eugene medicine, we did study. But that compared the basically, Mmm. That was from [00:08:00] the blood tests of COVID positive. Uh, there support with negative patients. Um, uh, we found very interesting that, uh, low vitamin D is independent risk factor for COVID-19 posts to be posted. And so, uh, if, uh, vitamin D and vitamin D is a risk factor to be infected and to be hospitalized because of COVID-19 this was our study.

[00:08:37] Uh, so yeah,

[00:08:44] patients. And, uh, uh, the UCON 708 82, uh, COVID-19 positive Israeli patients. Um, more than 7,000 of COVID-19 negative. [00:09:00] So it's a very important  block test of these patients and understand the risk factors. And we found a vitamin T O by less than 20 nanograms per ML. This is the deficiency deficiency of vitamin D is a risk factor for COVID-19 severity and hospitalization.

[00:09:26] Okay. So now we are doing a few more studies. Why, why this parameter is so important. And also if it's connected to a UV exposure or supplements or age and any other factors, this was very interesting.

[00:09:49] Carl Lanore: [00:09:49] So, um, in my early research into vitamin D, um, I looked at a couple interesting studies that I'm sure you're familiar with.

[00:10:00] [00:09:59] Um, one of them was actually done in a SARS cov model. Um, and it, they showed that in humans, a bolus injection of vitamin D Cola calciferol increased serum 25 OHD levels and stopped. The replication of a retrovirus. So could it be that the reason that the high level of vitamin D found in the non-positive patients was actually a result of, they may have been exposed, but they just didn't get infected because the high levels of vitamin D stopped them from actually being infected in the first place.

[00:10:48] Dr. Milana Frenkel-Morgenstern, PhD: [00:10:48] Right. This is like one question vitamin D itself was, uh, like a treatment for my COVID-19. And also, [00:11:00] uh, let's say. Uh, some, uh, preservation methods let's say for normal, be infected. Everybody is asking me about this, right? Because, uh, it's obvious question, but actually I can tell you, we don't know from a study, if a Wolf by them in T itself via protective measure.

[00:11:25] We don't know, because we did not make any randomized trial. We did observational studies, observational studies. This means, but just compared the group of positive and negative. And we saw a difference. Now this is a first day. Next thing step would be to test in the ear. Take. Vitamin D or high Parador is this of vitamin D and see any difference between the patient.

[00:11:56] These obviously will be a next year, same person [00:12:00] for such a study. Um, yes. Yeah, I'm doing confused studies, uh, uh, in connection provides, I mean, Z one of them, this is, uh, experimental, uh, testing, uh, the randomized studies and another, this is, uh, Uh, using different cards measures and see how it's changed you during the days during this season.

[00:12:28] This is very interesting. I cannot tell us immediately right now, but, uh, in principle might be in the few months, we can, uh, have a more experience about that because, uh, uh, because the problem with this is really, uh, you know,

[00:12:51] just pull them one year, one year. We can speculate. We can speculate, but I cannot [00:13:00] tell for sure.

[00:13:00] Carl Lanore: [00:13:00] Right.

[00:13:01] Dr. Milana Frenkel-Morgenstern, PhD: [00:13:01] I can tell you for sure that vitamin C in general, in general, is it is antiviral it's antiviral protection antiviral.

[00:13:13] Carl Lanore: [00:13:13] So, uh, there,

[00:13:19] yeah,

[00:13:19] Dr. Milana Frenkel-Morgenstern, PhD: [00:13:19] there is people having good level of fighting. They have protected from vital in some extent.

[00:13:27] Carl Lanore: [00:13:27] And I really think that exposure to the sun is better than just taking vitamin D because exposure to the sun also increases, uh, activation of the Malana Courtin stimulating hormone production and the melanocortin system, which has its own host.

[00:13:41] Of antiviral benefits, but getting back to the 25 hydroxy, there is a peptide that is produced as a downstream metabolite. Of 25 OHG, it's called L L three seven LL three seven. And this one, [00:14:00] this is the human capitalist Citadel it's antiviral it's anti-microbial. And in some cases it's even antifungal and LL three seven goes up top one 25, hydroxy goes up and one of the studies and HIV that showed that supplementing with vitamin D uh, orally raised.

[00:14:22] LL three, seven and suppressed replication of the HIV virus. Do you think that there is a, there is a connection to  as far as how it is affecting SARS Cove too?

[00:14:37] Dr. Milana Frenkel-Morgenstern, PhD: [00:14:37] Yeah, actually this is a good question because, uh, yeah, there is a lot of speculation about the, some coding properties of this Corona viruses and HIV.

[00:14:49] We also have a summer interesting study, uh, submit in the Phipps journal and we are waiting a peer review. Um, there is, uh, [00:15:00] some interesting connection from . Mmm. Maybe be, yeah, you are right. Maybe a very, uh, vitamin D protective effects, uh, through these phosphate. But those, I will tell you . Of many other vitamins, like vitamin B12 and iron, uh, because of the, um, these, uh  um, they activate those also, um, that the, eh, and if I invite them in, uh,

[00:15:44] prediction, So these, I think vitamin D is very complex, uh, participate in very, very complex system, uh, immunomodulator, chemo, perfection. This is, but I think in [00:16:00] general, yeah, and take supplements. It's good. But you are like, maybe explore

[00:16:09] much. Well, uh, vitamin D production in my body. But, uh, I, I will say, uh, uh, the, the, the, the sandbox, uh, like, uh, solar, uh, eh, going to sun  every day for 30 minutes. When you have sun exporter, 60% of your body known to be burned out, and then you can have a nice, uh, and invite them in the, uh, Oh, production in the body in general, this might be a good fit for your health and meal.

[00:16:50] Not perfection. Interestingly, I would say that a veal leaving now in the, in the sensitive, yeah, many [00:17:00] time, eh, sitting inside the buildings, uh, in the cars and the North exposed enough to the sun in general. In general. So, I mean, you have to pay attention. This is one of the ways to be, to have a healthy lifestyle would be the big sport or a particular time to the sun, not too loud, but, but go out for 30 minutes every day, at least during the song summertime it's at least.

[00:17:33] You didn't get summertime every day, 30 minutes and be exposed to the sun 60% of your body, but still be doing well. Uh, vitamin D production, eh, actually, uh, enough, uh, your vitamin D level. You buy, you bought by itself because if you think supplement, this is good, but it's not regulated.

[00:17:57] Carl Lanore: [00:17:57] Well, did Jake, did you, did you have dr.

[00:18:00] [00:17:59] Morgan stone? Did you happen to ask in the cohort that had the highest level. Of vitamin a serum D three, uh, 2,500 HD at 7,025. Did anyone ask them, did they take supplements or did they go in the sun? Well, we able to determine if they were actually sun worshipers or they were taking supplements.

[00:18:24] Dr. Milana Frenkel-Morgenstern, PhD: [00:18:24] Yeah.

[00:18:24] This is a good question. We are doing now this analysis because some, some people, uh, Uh, from the age of 65, some doctors advice to take a vitamin D supplement, some doctors it's not the overall medical organization. So different June 10th at the bar, uh, to patients in general to pick about vitamin D also against COVID-19 if this interesting.

[00:18:54] Um, this is really interesting medical, uh, Associations [00:19:00] already gave this advice, but this was not so, um, published in, in the media. But, uh, I can tell you that some doctors in the device, and this is maybe why we didn't see, uh, you talked about up for aging in that it's really, really interesting, uh, because, um,

[00:19:29] Because I, we ask a question if indeed the age 65 class, maybe the risk factor for COVID-19 and  is so actively 50 plus, and then interesting peak and around 25 and then 50. And we understood maybe. It's because of social head and because they are very social [00:20:00] social on this age, but, uh, because yeah, because maybe because of supplements because of supplements 65 flus, some of them receive supplements.

[00:20:12] And, uh, this is indeed by, uh, we didn't see the difference.

[00:20:17] Carl Lanore: [00:20:17] So, so

[00:20:18] Dr. Milana Frenkel-Morgenstern, PhD: [00:20:18] maybe, maybe before.

[00:20:22] Carl Lanore: [00:20:22] Yeah. I mean, supplements clearly work. When you look at the research yeah. Of the effectiveness of raising 25 OHD levels against variety of disease States. Uh, most of that research is done through supplementation, whether it's oral, uh, or, or injected, uh, uh, Uh, vitamin D three, but I want, I want to go back and I want to emphasize something.

[00:20:44] Cause this is really an interesting thing because we're told in the media every day that, you know, comorbidities, comorbidities, comorbidities. But the reality is that when you teased out for comorbidities like dementia, like cardiovascular disease, even [00:21:00] chronic lung disease, there was a greater correlation to 25 OHD levels, then presence of those comorbidities, right?

[00:21:08] Okay.

[00:21:12] Is that correct?

[00:21:14] Dr. Milana Frenkel-Morgenstern, PhD: [00:21:14] Exactly. Yes. This is . I think the CD's comorbidities comorbidities as well. Our goal let's see. And then this , but interesting that vitamin D was independent from all the comorbidities and. Surprisingly, so covered abilities like lung disorders, cardiovascular and chronic diseases and COVID positive.

[00:21:44] And then they started to under a  what can be an explanation for such effects? What is C and a. Actually, this was really interesting. We understood probably we can [00:22:00] speculate again, this is not randomized studies, but we can speak with this because of the log down. I'm in Israel. These patients very, very much afraid to go out and they really, uh, you know, it's worth the good thing for this, uh, comorbidities and, uh, patients and the risk.

[00:22:23] They indeed stay at home and they reduce their risk factor. This is interesting. They had four, uh, chronic diseases logged down, so think and call home and be in close the area. This is indeed the good way to protect themselves, protect themselves. But if you ask about healthy, how people. What is the risk factor for healthy people?

[00:22:55] Uh, what usually don't go to the doctors, [00:23:00] make it another Ella

[00:23:04] healthy in front of these people. They don't know about chronic diseases. For these people, but still so socialized the globe like around 25 years ago. Right. And I'm 50, you know, socializing a wall. These people should understand that. I mean, D protection for them going very well very well. So if board likes to stay social active, they still need to preserve.

[00:23:36] The vitamin D level, what is also connected to vitamin E vitamin B and, uh, I don't at least. Okay. So I would steal advice from these people, take some solar bus, go outside and be exposed to something.

[00:24:03] [00:24:00] Carl Lanore: [00:24:03] Yes. Yes. And, and, you know, that's when everybody gets sick in the winter time, you know, there's a great study about a viral spread. In Brazil, because Brazil is about the size of the U S but the Northern most portion of it is right on the equator. And the Southern most portion is very far away from the equator and the cities are in the North.

[00:24:27] And the far left. The interesting thing about that is, yeah, that viruses spread the most in cities. And the least in the rural areas that the opposite, because in Brazil, the sun is out all the time in the cities. The virus is spread in the South in the rural areas. This shows the relationship between sun exposure, 25 OHD and viral spread.

[00:24:56] Dr. Milana Frenkel-Morgenstern, PhD: [00:24:56] Yeah, again, we didn't make these studies, but I can [00:25:00] tell you a secret secret doing such a study like that because we took, actually took many countries, uh, no soft hemisphere. And, uh, we calculate that this exposure to

[00:25:18] This is so lame mathematical formula

[00:25:24] is the produced again, it's a calculation, right? And to evaluate the level, actually not parties going outside for pills, the truth, respect, conditionality. Yeah. And people asking me if this is interesting. Uh, you know, but in Florida, thanks guys. I am going outside, outside,

[00:25:57] Carl Lanore: [00:25:57] right?

[00:26:00] [00:26:00] Dr. Milana Frenkel-Morgenstern, PhD: [00:26:00] Big disappointment.

[00:26:02] Carl Lanore: [00:26:02] You got out in the sun, get out in the sun just because you live in a sunny climate doesn't mean nothing exposed.

[00:26:10] Dr. Milana Frenkel-Morgenstern, PhD: [00:26:10] Yes. Jeff peoples you all leaving can, this is not think about you. Yes. And no exposure for the spine.

[00:26:21] You'll stay at night and conditioning.

[00:26:25] Carl Lanore: [00:26:25] I wanna, I wanna, I want to take a commercial break and when we come back, I have more questions for you. We're talking with dr. Mulana Morgenstern and she is with the, uh, bar Elon university in Israel. We'll be right back with more super human radio stations. You were listening to the superhuman channel.

[00:26:43] Don't hate us because we feel good.

[00:26:49] Welcome back. We're talking with doctor. Hi, welcome back. We're talk to you with dr. Milana Morganstern. She is with the bar Alondra university in Israel. We're [00:27:00] talking about a recent paper. They published that correlated those with the lowest vitamin D levels in the incidents of. Covert infection versus those with the highest vitamin D levels and the incidence of COVID infection.

[00:27:13] And it was, it was really a statistically important paper because it showed that the people who had the highest vitamin D status didn't get didn't have have the virus. What was, what was the average? No,

[00:27:28] Dr. Milana Frenkel-Morgenstern, PhD: [00:27:28] I get, they got the vitals about the severity of the disease was reduced. This mean. Thanks, Steve and Steve having, uh, let's say of the disease, but they might be even as symptomatic this year need to take in the mind because even if you catch a COVID-19 because you are close to infection, so you see the charity of your disease, you need to have a [00:28:00] good vitamin D level, not C.

[00:28:02] Usually people are, you know, Big vitamin C

[00:28:07] Carl Lanore: [00:28:07] vitamin C. We don't talk about that. So vital.

[00:28:11] Dr. Milana Frenkel-Morgenstern, PhD: [00:28:11] This is

[00:28:18] receive easily from the food. If you're bringing, let's say orange juice or lemon juice, you can easily receive them in a seat, but the vitamin D uh, you cannot receive from food. It's very. How to find the food reach, invite them in, right. Usually, yeah, people leaning on the North of, uh,

[00:28:48] the Scandinavian countries. They cannot receive enough for food because they have a lot, they eat a lot of fish. They eat a lot of, uh, uh, red fish  [00:29:00] there. They enriched. Yeah in vitamin D, but not to be, we are not eating same kind of food. And, uh, our production in vitamin D can be only as a sun exposure.

[00:29:16] This is why it's so important to put attention on this. Uh, this is different. Vitamin D is a, uh, uh, soluble in oil, not in water. Like vitamin C, vitamin C is easy to just be assault in a book and then they can bring kids. That's vitamin D is a oil

[00:29:40] Carl Lanore: [00:29:40] soluble.

[00:29:41] Dr. Milana Frenkel-Morgenstern, PhD: [00:29:41] Right, right. Yeah. This was by, uh, so what felt so complication to make a good supplements?

[00:29:48] Fat.

[00:29:49] Carl Lanore: [00:29:49] All right. And in the, in the 7,000 plus group that had the higher levels of vitamin D. What was the average blood levels of, of 25 each day.

[00:30:00] [00:30:00] Dr. Milana Frenkel-Morgenstern, PhD: [00:30:00] Yeah, actually you can, uh, I can tell you that. Um, and the difference, um, the Lord they're deficient level and above

[00:30:12] Carl Lanore: [00:30:12] that was it. Huh? So what's the difference?

[00:30:15] Dr. Milana Frenkel-Morgenstern, PhD: [00:30:15] Yeah.

[00:30:15] This is really interesting because, uh, below the tuition level, you already. I have a lot of problems. Um, also his costume and metabolites. And, uh, you have a lot of progress, his bones, you have a lot of problems with immune system. So this is, uh, people need size diffusion they're slowly, slowly. Uh, so these positions, uh, you know, they, they develop a lot of symptoms.

[00:30:46] Right. And the Baba deficient level, this is, you can perceive this, but also not for a long time, but they can tell you their truth is that [00:31:00] vitamin D deficiency is a recent funding. Yes. And then, so 70% of white people, white people they ever do use. Vitamin D low. Yes. Black people there even 95%. Right? So this is where you need to pay attention.

[00:31:27] So via all. Even myself, you know, I mentioned, uh, I, I went to the doctor and measured my level of vitamin D in the block. Right. Just in case to see if I'm okay. And I find myself below the normal. So even me, even what I know about vitamin D and I go to the standard, pick my finish steel. So you see how easily you can be below optimal level.

[00:31:59] Really [00:32:00] easily. And then you don't, you don't feel that you can answer, but it's slowly, slowly your medical life you met.  right. And then you stop flowing is slowly increasing wait and all around because it's not right. Pull up this. They don't. They give you. No,

[00:32:30] Carl Lanore: [00:32:30] that's how it is here in the United States. If you don't go and ask your doctor to check your vitamin D level, they don't, it's not standard anymore.

[00:32:38] It's more and more doctors are starting. More doctors are starting to check it as a standard lab test when you go for your annual lab work, but it's, it's few and far between. So what are you doing? Have you started, have you started supplementing with vitamin D since you found out your levels were low?

[00:32:56] Dr. Milana Frenkel-Morgenstern, PhD: [00:32:56] Yeah, actually what I did it wasn't in the time I took [00:33:00] supplements about favorite sampling. And so vitamin D because as I said, it's all only the soul. Then you take only a separate vitamin D supplements. If you take all together, multiple vitamins forgot about it. It's not so easy. Okay. Big, just like the movie.

[00:33:21] Right. Precisely vitamin D and the colony, you know? Okay. Okay. No, but some of the time they may have a better pool, just like exercise,

[00:33:36] Carl Lanore: [00:33:36] exercise, exercise in this

[00:33:41] exercise. Right, right. And the other thing.

[00:33:49] Dr. Milana Frenkel-Morgenstern, PhD: [00:33:49] Don't be dumb. You can put the beat the small amount of some protection, but not too [00:34:00] much. If you take.

[00:34:01] Carl Lanore: [00:34:01] Most of them. Most of them actually. Yeah, most, most of the sunblock stop vitamin D production. But more importantly, when we talk about vitamin D, we're talking about colo calciferol vitamin D three, because lots of foods are four to five with vitamin D two.

[00:34:17] This does not raise 25 OHD levels. So you have to make sure that if you are taking vitamin D that it's a vitamin D three supplement, and if you're taking. 5,000. I use 10,000. I'll use one. Whatever it is you're taking it. You must take it with a fatty meal. If you don't take it with a fatty meal, there's evidence that 70% of it won't be absorbed.

[00:34:39] If you take it with a meal that has fat in it, you almost, all of it will be absorbed by the body and be effective. So that's another thing. Don't take an oil based vitamin D on an empty stomach and think it's doing anything for you. Also, one other thing,

[00:34:58] Dr. Milana Frenkel-Morgenstern, PhD: [00:34:58] Not too big, too much, [00:35:00] because you know, this is keep that I keep it a vitamin D exposure during supplements and not so good because you can increase your costs in production and then you can have a side. So B I'm very pro very pragmatic, not too much, not too low. Yeah. And then a, I had device always. So go to your doctor and have a nice advice.

[00:35:29] Thank you. You bet. If you not take anything because you know, they do such a thing. I think thinking, you know, um, how to sit into and they, they have , it'll be cool. No, it's not new, right? If you think. You your unit use your perfection, right? If you don't need vitamin D don't take vitamin D. If [00:36:00] you don't need other vitamins, don't take them by.

[00:36:03] I can explain it because all these supplements they can, uh, the image you leave here, you can damage your liver and skin damage. Your funeral convection, because theater theory is very much a. Seven or different kind of, um, material like a supplement. Okay. Don't take anything if you don't need it, all this for you, we'll buy them in dealer.

[00:36:38] Carl Lanore: [00:36:38] Right.

[00:36:38] Dr. Milana Frenkel-Morgenstern, PhD: [00:36:38] And then Steve, a professional device from the medical doctor of the big and how much this is important. Extremely important. Okay.

[00:36:54] Carl Lanore: [00:36:54] Yeah. So vitamin D test of widespread available here in the United States has a lot of places where you can go and get them their [00:37:00] blood spot tests. You prick your finger, it's a Watman bladder, send it in.

[00:37:03] They give it to you. Uh, the accepted, the accepted range for most people is between 40 and 80. Uh, Graham's a leader. I believe

[00:37:22] Dr. Milana Frenkel-Morgenstern, PhD: [00:37:22] Then you don't need any supplements. Don't take supplements. Um, I don't advise to take it.

[00:37:29] Carl Lanore: [00:37:29] I personally think that just get sun because the body regulates vitamin D production as it needs it. If you get too much sun, the body destroys the Coldwell calciferol in the skin before it goes to the liver and becomes 25 OHD.

[00:37:43] So the body has a negative feedback loop that it says, Oh, I don't want any more. This is good. Um, so the sun is really the best way to get your vitamin D. So, what do you hope, uh, clinicians and lay people take away from this recent research? Uh, dr. Morgenstern

[00:38:00] [00:38:00] Dr. Milana Frenkel-Morgenstern, PhD: [00:38:00] and I've too many people asking us about this research.

[00:38:06] And, uh, we got a lot of interviews around the water and because, uh, Yeah. Be attention to this move more being it's really important. Yes. Because you need to understand how your immune protection is, uh, uh, produced and, uh, so, eh, yeah, yeah. Help you help your lifestyle. Also include vitamin D and not on my level of fight.

[00:38:38] I mean, uh, sometimes we forgot about it, right? So these will find many, many people asking us.

[00:38:50] Carl Lanore: [00:38:50] So T so tell me about Israel real quick. How does Israel have a big outbreak of COVID-19.

[00:38:58] Dr. Milana Frenkel-Morgenstern, PhD: [00:38:58] Actually, [00:39:00] uh,

[00:39:04] 20,000 positive at, around, uh, February or April. Exactly. Or, Oh, uh, time period. And now we go up and down the sixties. So, yeah. Yeah. So what they can tell you that this particular virus is not, she's gone yell to Sonia like a flu, you know? Yeah. Flu starting from October around may, and then we are fine, but this virus coronavirus seems to be.

[00:39:41] Really nice in the summer. Right? You'll be invited from India. We see a lot of cases for Rhona virus. This means it's not a virus can be really nice, but during the time around [00:40:00] the year. And, but what we can tell it, be a small difference. We see again. This is just the creation because we still didn't publish any study, but we are working that there is a difference.

[00:40:15] Symbiotic T this is a disease during the summertime, probably because the vitamin D right? Yeah, yeah. Doing good right now on this spam, you still after some exposure, because I cannot tell how much people exposed. Right. He'll not bill. If they see them,

[00:40:41] Carl Lanore: [00:40:41] unless they're dark like me. See I'm out in the sun all the time.

[00:40:44] I love this song. I ride my motorcycle.

[00:40:47] Dr. Milana Frenkel-Morgenstern, PhD: [00:40:47] Yes or no. Am I going to miss my kids so beach, especially get some fun on the beach, on a beach, [00:41:00] tried to get some sun. And, but still people love going too much outside the, because of taught it's a problem because we don't like to be outside. And, you know, I agree these situation because, and nice climatization system, but just the thinking the mind that remember what parents say, you go outside, stay outside.

[00:41:30] They're gonna remind me of this deal. So this is

[00:41:33] Carl Lanore: [00:41:33] yeah, no, I agree. I agree. Uh, dr. Morgan, I want to thank you so much for making time to come on the show today.

[00:41:40] Dr. Milana Frenkel-Morgenstern, PhD: [00:41:40] Thank you so much. My pleasure.

[00:41:43] Carl Lanore: [00:41:43] Take care. Take care. Bye bye. We're going to take a quick commercial break. When we come back, we're going to be joined by dr.

[00:41:50] Bruce. He's got an interesting angle on working with people who have Austria with riotous. This is a really, really, really going to be a really interesting interview, especially [00:42:00] for those of us. Um, Who we know what ATP is, right? Because we go to the gym, we train, we want to enhance ATP turnover and all that sort of good stuff and well appear.

[00:42:11] Apparently there's a relationship between ATP and right. Uh, and I guess it's not surprising, I think, because everything needs energy. Right. So stay tuned. We'll be right back with more supreme-a radio. Here we go. We're listening to the superhuman channel. We're ripped and we're ready.

[00:42:34] welcome. Back to superhuman radio. And we're being joined the, did I pronounce your name properly? Dr. Bruce

[00:42:45] Correct. Yeah. Okay. I hear, yeah. I hear bells in the background. Oh, those windshields

[00:42:53] Dr. Bruce Cronstein, MD: [00:42:53] I'm sitting outside and their wind chime. Sarah saw it's

[00:42:55] Carl Lanore: [00:42:55] beautiful PR. I feel like we should be meditating. We should be meditating instead. [00:43:00] And this is perfect because we just did a show about the importance of vitamin D in fighting COVID-19 and you're out there getting your vitamin D naturally.

[00:43:09] So that's wonderful. Wonderful. Welcome to the show. So, dr.  tell me what made you look at this molecule ATP as it relates to arthritis. Was there preceding research that kind of put you onto this?

[00:43:28] Dr. Bruce Cronstein, MD: [00:43:28] Well, it's not so much the ATP as one of the, uh, one of the metabolites of ATP adenosine. Uh, I've been working on. Adenosine and adenosine receptors for, uh, well for practically 40 years. And, um, the source of adenosine is ATP. ATP is in addition to acting as a fuel source. It's an exported from cells and it acts as a, uh, both.

[00:43:58] But both directly on [00:44:00] its own receptors on the cell surface, as well as some of it is broken down to a dentist scene at the, uh, at the surface of the cell. So you were mentioning the gym, uh, as, uh, as you, uh, you know, before and ATP is a fuel, but, uh, one of the things that adenosine does and, uh, is that when you go to the gym and you start exercising, you notice that your.

[00:44:26] You got a vasodilation, your muscles get bigger, you get red around the areas that have been, uh, uh, exercising and that's all due to a Denison, which, uh, which has produced as a result of breakdown of the ATP, you know, for use as, uh, as fuel. So, um, ATP is, is obviously everywhere. Um, one of the things that happens in osteoarthritis.

[00:44:55] Um, is that, uh, your cells no longer [00:45:00] make as much ATP the mitochondria, which makes ATP are sick. They're not, we're not sick, but they're the less productive. And as a result, there's less adenosine around. And we, uh, a couple of years ago, Actually, uh, more like six or seven years ago, uh, discovered that, uh, that adenosine and one of its receptors is, is, uh, is critical for, um, maintaining, um, I guess the health of chondracytes is the cells that make cartilage.

[00:45:35] And, uh, and this came out of this actually all came out of hurricane Sandy, um, because we lost our mouse facility at NYU with the exception of a couple of cages. And we had these mice that were lacking this particular receptor. I mean, notice the number of things over the years, including the fact that, uh, That the [00:46:00] mice, uh, lacking this receptor, uh, the male mice, uh, were no longer fertile after a few months of age.

[00:46:07] And that's, those are basically young adults. So, uh, we looked at their knees and it turned out that they had spontaneous osteoarthritis and we showed that, uh, a dentist thing is important. Acting as this receptor to maintain the chondracytes and there there's other supporting evidence from people with genetic abnormalities of.

[00:46:31] Of some of the enzymes involved. So that's, that's how we got involved, uh, ACP and the dentist scene and osteoarthritis. And, um, that's kind of, as I said, we, we found out why the males weren't fertile because their knees hurt. So, uh, for my staff, Seem to be critical in terms of their filling. This debrief didn't seem to bother the females as

[00:46:58] Carl Lanore: [00:46:58] much.

[00:46:59] Okay. So [00:47:00] this opens up a whole line of

[00:47:01] Dr. Bruce Cronstein, MD: [00:47:01] other functions.

[00:47:02] Carl Lanore: [00:47:02] This opens up a whole line of questions that I'm wondering if you've been asked already. So. The reason that we use cap being as an ergogenic, is that it, uh, it reduces the Dennis scene's accumulation, uh, why it's, why we don't sleep well when we use lots of caffeine because, uh, Tennessee and accumulates and creates a sleep, uh, desire to sleep.

[00:47:29] What does caffeine role in the reduction of a dentist in this model of osteoarthritis?

[00:47:39] Dr. Bruce Cronstein, MD: [00:47:39] So we haven't tried a D uh, caffeine per se. We've tried more specific, uh, uh, adenosine receptor blocking agents, which is what caffeine does. And, um, we can, we can block the effect of adenosine, uh, you know, with these, with these agents. Now, remember when you [00:48:00] take caffeine. And, uh, most people, all the, uh, the halflife is, is maybe a couple of hours and, you know, and some people it's longer.

[00:48:11] And, um, so you're not blocking a totally all the time. So I, you know, I don't think anybody's looked necessarily the, uh, after relationship to caffeine. Ingestion and development of osteoarthritis. If, if there's anything there, it would be to, uh, uh, to promote osteoarthritis. As I mentioned, one of the, uh, one of the, I guess, supporting elements in our theory or to our hypothesis is that people lacking.

[00:48:44] Uh, the enzymes that convert, uh, ATP to adenosine at the cell surface, uh, those people develop a variety of problems, mostly vascular, but they also develop [00:49:00] premature osteoarthritis. So it takes a pretty severe lack of a dentist scene or a blockade of a dentist thing.

[00:49:09] Carl Lanore: [00:49:09] So, um, I'm going to leave the caffeine thing alone because there's a lot more to that than, than we can discuss right now.

[00:49:15] But let's talk more about, so, so we, we realized that, um, and I know this is, we're talking about arthritis, but it's fascinating. I never understood until I started researching your paper, the role of adenosine and, and, and vasodilation, um, We have today. Um, we have today neuropathies that are not diabetic in nature.

[00:49:38] They're not from advanced glycation. They are in fact, uh, from a microvasculature shutting down that shut down, stops feeding nerves, those nerves. B become hyperalgesic first and then they start to die off. And I'm wondering if what you've discovered here also is, is kind of in that mix of what we see [00:50:00] metabolically out there in the world today, we have something going on with the dentist scene.

[00:50:04] Maybe that's not only contributing to the arthritis, but other metabolic issues. We see widespread in the population today.

[00:50:15] Dr. Bruce Cronstein, MD: [00:50:15] Yeah, I think that's possible. There, there are several, a receptors for adenosine on the cell surface. Uh, the eight's way receptors, the one that we've been most actively looking at the, uh, it's, it's a very potent vasal dilator. Uh, the age of B receptor is, uh, was a visitor dilator as well, although it requires much higher concentration.

[00:50:39] So. Oh, the dentist thing and ATP receptors have been located or another variety of metabolic problems, gateway receptor, um, you know, really hasn't, uh, hasn't been associated with, uh, the same metabolic abnormalities, [00:51:00] but, uh, you know, it's, uh, it's entirely possible that there's another receptor of the  receptor, which, uh, Directly acts on, uh, uh, on neurons and in fact, uh, really interesting, capable from my other son male clinic.

[00:51:19] Uh, it turns out that if, if you're a mouse and you. Lack, uh, the identity may one receptor you're no longer capable of responding to so acupuncture. Uh, so Dennis and a one receptor receptors seem to block pain transmission. So, you know, so there are lots of connections to neurons, neuronal health and, uh, uh, the vasculature.

[00:51:44] Uh, with the dentist and receptors

[00:51:47] Carl Lanore: [00:51:47] now, now taking creatine monohydrate, which is a very popular ergogenic used by pretty much every gym rat in the world today. And it's been proven to be very, very safe, uh, seems to contribute to [00:52:00] ATP recycling. Uh, is it possible that, uh, something as simple as a creatine monohydrate could help fix this problem because didn't you didn't you, your group looked at of what.

[00:52:13] Um, supplementing or, or restoring a dentist, a lot of these, uh, uh, chondrocyte effects started to reverse themselves, right?

[00:52:24] Dr. Bruce Cronstein, MD: [00:52:24] Yes. Uh that's that's correct. So it is possible. I, I can't speak to creatine in particular. We haven't looked at that. Um, but what we, one of the things that we've found is that by, uh, that. At least in chondracytes. Um, if, uh, if you are able to treat them with adenosine and the dentist and HOA receptor agonists that, uh, this can actually enhance, uh, the function of mitochondria and the mitochondria are the cells, which make the organelles within the cells, [00:53:00] make the, uh, the ATP that makes the fuel for your, uh, Uh, you're, uh, cells and a dentist.

[00:53:09] And as I said, uh, acting out its receptor, uh, seems to promote the, uh, the health of these mitochondria or the creatine itself, um, or downstream effects of creatine on ATP production, um, you know, would enhance or would, would improve your, your joints. Like, I can't say we haven't, we haven't tested that specifically.

[00:53:33] We have, uh, we have given adenosine, uh, as I mentioned, or as we showed in this paper to both, uh, rats and mice with various forms of, uh, of osteoarthritis. And one of the problems that you have to overcome with, uh, giving a dentist team is that it has a very short half life. So. It's ideal for something that acts as a visual dilator, you know, after you've been [00:54:00] to the gym, so that as soon as you stop exercising, the dancing goes away.

[00:54:04] You no longer evade. So Dolly that, uh, but, uh, as, uh, uh, but for, uh, for other things that, uh, uh, that very short half life can be a problem. We gave injections of a Denison, but we put it into a kind of long acting form. Uh, we encapsulated in lipids or with what are known as liposomes. Right. And, uh, liposomes have been around for a while as I'm sure you're aware.

[00:54:36] Carl Lanore: [00:54:36] Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's funny

[00:54:38] Dr. Bruce Cronstein, MD: [00:54:38] prolongs the life

[00:54:39] Carl Lanore: [00:54:39] I learned about a dentist seen about seven years ago. Um, when I thought that if I had intra-nasal adenosine, That administered with intra-nasal melatonin, it would be a great sleep aid. Then I found that, that it's seen as a drug. It can only be offered through prescription.

[00:54:57] And as you point out, it has an extremely short, [00:55:00] right. Okay. Effective half-life and I thought, well, there goes that, you know, that idea, but this is really fascinating to me because more and more research has come out over the past. Five or six years that is now putting to rest. This notion that osteoarthritis is a mechanical loading, a disorder that, you know, if you're, if you're heavy, your knees are getting all this.

[00:55:24] But the reality is we're starting to learn a lot more about inflammation and its role. And because, because very heavy people get osteoarthritis in their hands. And in their neck and their heads really aren't that much heavier than the average head. So you have to ask yourself, well, I get the knees and the hips, but why the neck and the hands, you know, and you didn't have to go, well, maybe it's not a mat mechanical loading.

[00:55:46] I think that what your group has discovered is the most fascinating yet because inflammation explains itself, right. It's going to destroy chondrocyte. So is there a, is there some sort of. Is there some sort of a [00:56:00] stacking effect or compounding effect? Does inflammation play a role in suppressing adenosine, accumulation or production?

[00:56:12] Dr. Bruce Cronstein, MD: [00:56:12] Um, actually it does. Uh, we we've shown that, uh, particularly in, in, um, in cartilage. So, uh, if you load cartilage, normally it releases. If you put a load within the physiologic range, Um, onto cartilage and we did this with, uh, Rodney's. We showed, we could show that, uh, there's an increase in ATP release, leading to an increase in extra sailor adenosine levels.

[00:56:40] If you treat, uh, those knees with an inflammatory stimulus, um, you find that in fact, if anything. The amount of ATP released and presence in the cells, the clients. And so, um, so that, that directly, [00:57:00] I should also mention that the very first thing I ever did in the lab was to show that adenosine is anti inflammatory and does so by, uh, uh, via the same receptors that we mentioned for.

[00:57:14] For osteoarthritis. And so, uh, that's been around for a long time. Um, we use, uh, we we've shown that at least some of the actions of, of, uh, some of the agents used to treat rheumatoid arthritis and other inflammatory disease, uh, are mediated by, uh, uh, by adenosine as result of the metabolic changes by, by those, uh, those drugs.

[00:57:42] Carl Lanore: [00:57:42] I want it,

[00:57:44] Dr. Bruce Cronstein, MD: [00:57:44] so you're right. There's there's connection

[00:57:47] Carl Lanore: [00:57:47] then. I want to take a break. And when we come back, I want it, you're talking about the enzyme that you spoke about that seems to upregulate the production of adenosine. And is that right? Anything that people could be doing to improve, uh, [00:58:00] on their own, uh, Denis scenes biosynthesis.

[00:58:03] We're talking right now with dr. Bruce.  about a very good, interesting, and fact, quite frankly, these kinds of stories are fabulous to me because. It points out things that may be in our control to change as it relates to osteoarthritis, stay tuned. We'll be right back. You are listening to the superhuman channel.

[00:58:22] Don't hate us because we feel good. Welcome back. Talking with dr. Bruce Crohn's Dean. We're talking about an interesting angle on treating osteoarthritis. It's fascinating to me and it's exciting to me. I actually. Instills me with hope not for me. I don't have osteoarthritis, but there's a lot of people out there that do.

[00:58:44] And you know, years ago I had a, a physician who's since passed, uh, on my show. Um, probably about 11 years ago, who was doing intraarticular growth, hormone injections, and getting amazing results with [00:59:00] getting chondracytes to, to, to regenerate. But this is even more fascinating to me because it's not. So, uh, you know, outside the nine dots, like people hear the word growth hormone, they're like, Oh no, no, that's no good.

[00:59:12] I mean, this is a byproduct of. Everyday life movement. Every time you use ATP, it spins off some adenosine. What can people do to increase the dentistry in production? Dr. Crohn's team?

[00:59:29] Dr. Bruce Cronstein, MD: [00:59:29] So, um, that's an interesting question. I can tell you how one gets slower, a dentist action. Uh, and then maybe we can try and figure out an approach there. So again, this is not my work, but others have shown that, uh, uh, that one of the contributing factors in postmenopausal, osteoporosis, that is the loss of bone that, uh, Uh, that many women, uh, get after going through menopause, uh, is, uh, results [01:00:00] from loss of adenosine production in the bone or by the, by the, uh, bone cells.

[01:00:06] And that this is a result of. Diminished expression of, uh, of some of these enzymes involved in a dentist in production from ATP. And, uh, it turns out that those enzymes are sensitive to, uh, to, um, you know, female hormones that, uh, Uh, and, uh, the, uh, if you give estrogen to cells and, uh, if you, that it leads to a, uh, enhanced adenosine release, uh, at least in the bone.

[01:00:43] So, so I, I think that, uh, um, that that's one approach. I'm not sure that that would necessarily translate. You know, and so the, uh, uh, into the cartilage or, or other, uh, uh, other tissues. [01:01:00] Um, so I, I think that that's one approach to something one could do on one's own, uh, estrogen and estrogen, like compounds do prevent osteoporosis in women undergoing menopause.

[01:01:13] Uh, these enzymes also decline with age. And so, um, You know, I, I suppose you, if you don't age, you're not gonna, you're not gonna lose the enzymes. Uh, I'm not sure that, uh, that estrogen therapy is the right thing for everybody. Uh, at a certain point, I think there's quite a bit of data out there that suggests that for many people it's, it's, it's a problem.

[01:01:37] But, um, but at least in this particular setting, estrogen is, uh, uh, is promoting the, the release of adenosine, which acts as a, uh, as a further stimulus to its bone production. So, so I think that's one approach.

[01:01:56] Carl Lanore: [01:01:56] No, go ahead. Go ahead. I'm sorry. Yeah,

[01:01:58] Dr. Bruce Cronstein, MD: [01:01:58] sorry, go ahead.

[01:02:00] [01:01:59] Carl Lanore: [01:01:59] Well, I was,

[01:02:00] Dr. Bruce Cronstein, MD: [01:02:00] you know, again, I, it's hard since you make most of your own adenosine and it's, it's hard to, uh, and, and the ATP, it's hard to think of ways to, uh, dramatic ways to enhance that.

[01:02:14] Um, You know, you can obviously, uh, a good diets, uh, uh, will give you enough, uh, that you can make, uh, ATP out of, uh, out of the sugars and fats that, uh, that are a part of any, uh, a good diet. And there are some agents, as you mentioned, uh, potentially creating that, uh, that may enhance, uh, uh, ACP and ultimately a dentist sand production.

[01:02:39] But, um, I, I, you know, as I said, I can't, I can't address those, those issues directly.

[01:02:45] Carl Lanore: [01:02:45] So we know, we know that we know that sleep improves with daytime activity. We know that sleep improves because Denis accumulates and causes something called sleep pressure. And so [01:03:00] people who, uh, don't move much, they sit all day long.

[01:03:03] They don't sleep as well. And you know, we've all done this, right? I mean, you've got to be, I could see beautiful trees behind you. I'm sure you have a beautiful back yard area, maybe one afternoon of, of working in the yard and you go home and you have the best night's sleep you've had all week long after just kind of really being busy.

[01:03:20] And there's a lot of evidence that that is from a dentist scene. Accumulation causing greater sleep pressure that leads to a better night's sleep. Is it possible that the fact that we sit, I sit at this chair, this chair for five hours a day, doing this show, and then, you know, I sit on my motorcycle and then I, I sit when I eat dinner.

[01:03:39] Is it possible that this is a problem, a disease of modernity that we, we, we're not spinning off as much adenosine as we would, if we were active all the time.

[01:03:54] Dr. Bruce Cronstein, MD: [01:03:54] Um, I think that's possible, uh, you know, hard to, it's hard to compare it to, [01:04:00] you know, the people living several thousand years ago. Uh, but, um, but I think that's, that's possible. I think, uh, you know, a lot of people use a stamp. My son uses a standing desk, so, uh, uh, so that,

[01:04:14] Carl Lanore: [01:04:14] um, I'm building a new studio and I'm going to have that.

[01:04:19] I am building a new store.

[01:04:22] Dr. Bruce Cronstein, MD: [01:04:22] There are a circadian. Yeah. Great. So, so there are changes in, in the, um, in the levels of adenosine that are associated with time. And this probably goes awry when, uh, you know, when you travel and I guess when any of us travel by jet again, uh, we'll uh, we'll find that, uh, some of those disorders or, uh, you know, that there's probably less accumulation of, of adenosine in the brain.

[01:04:50] And, uh, there's also a similar, um, circadian. Rhythm to the expression of, uh, of adenosine [01:05:00] receptors in the brain that are involved in sleep. And, uh, one other, uh, thing that she might want to consider. Uh, one of the reasons that alcohol makes you so sleepy is that it causes excess, uh, ATP release and access to Denis in, uh, uh, levels.

[01:05:18] So it that's, you know, You don't want to do this too much, but that's probably what makes people so sleepy when they're, when they're drinking, when it wears off, you kind of have a rebound effect. So, uh, so with the rebound effect, you're no longer as sensitive to adenosine. You've, you've internalized those receptors in your cells.

[01:05:39] You're not producing as much ATP cause your cells are out of running out of it. And, uh, uh, this is why people with, uh, who drank too much have, uh, difficulty sleeping through the night, for example. Oh, they go to sleep very well, but they wake up and then can't go back to sleep. Right. So, um, so I think that that's, you know, it's, it's a complex, [01:06:00] uh, uh, problem.

[01:06:01] I don't recommend people drink too much, uh, uh, to keep their joints, uh, uh, lubricated that wouldn't be, that's probably not the

[01:06:09] Carl Lanore: [01:06:09] best approach either. What's the name of the enzyme that seems to, uh, increase the production of, uh, uh, identity and at the cell level.

[01:06:22] Dr. Bruce Cronstein, MD: [01:06:22] So, so there, there are two, um, the numbers are easier, so it's CD 39, which is so, uh, fire prime nucleotide days, um, uh, D phosphorylase and, uh, the other is a five-prime nuclear, uh, ecto five-prime nucleotide, and, um, So the, uh, both of those enzymes are regulated, as I said, by, by estrogen that their expression is regulated by estrogen.

[01:06:53] Um, the, uh, right now actually people are targeting, [01:07:00] uh, uh, these enzymes, uh, for treatment of cancer. Because, uh, as I mentioned, the dentist thing is anti-inflammatory, it's, it acts as a natural break on the immune system. And, um, it's been shown in a number of studies and increasingly now in humans, that if you can block adenosine, HOA receptors, uh, you can enhance the immune response to, uh, to tumors.

[01:07:28] And this can be. It useful in treating a variety of tumors. Um, so people are actually making N uh, antibodies to XFR prime nucleotide days that will vent the, uh, uh, the actions and prevent the Denis and accumulation that, uh, in tumors. And, um, the, you know, there are other small molecules that people are making as well.

[01:07:55] Uh, and those are still. You know, they haven't come into [01:08:00] humans yet, but those are, those are working in the opposite direction.

[01:08:06] Carl Lanore: [01:08:06] What do you hope both lay people and clinicians take away from this research? What do you hope? Lay people and clinicians take away,

[01:08:16] Dr. Bruce Cronstein, MD: [01:08:16] right. Right. So, so, uh, where we're going with this is, uh, we we've started a company to, uh, to develop, uh, intraarticular injections of adenosine or a dentist  receptor agonist, uh, in a long acting form that is, uh, You know, we w currently we're working on liposomes, but there are other, other ways to prolong the action of adenosine.

[01:08:43] Uh, and we're, uh, the hope is that, uh, this can be used as a, as a therapy in patients who have early osteoarthritis and thereby prevent the, um, uh, the progression of the arthritis as well as [01:09:00] potentially, uh, um, uh, I guess, uh, regenerating the cartilage and, uh, and, uh, reversing the effects of osteoarthritis.

[01:09:09] I think that's kind of where we're taking it. We have a long way to go, uh, in terms of getting this, uh, uh, into people, we've got to go through, uh, all of the FDA requirements. Uh, this should be easier with the dentist thing, because as you mentioned, it's already available as a drug to be given intravenously, um, It's also present in a variety of, uh, cosmetic headaches, um, to prevent, uh, uh, aging of the skin and it's treat aging of the skin.

[01:09:41] So, uh, so a dentist in itself is pretty nontoxic. You do get rid of it very quickly and, uh, And, um, so we're hopeful that we can come up with something that is both nontoxic and effective and, you know, we'll, we'll see as time goes by, uh, how, how, how [01:10:00] effective it is.

[01:10:02] Carl Lanore: [01:10:02] You know, I want to thank you for two things.

[01:10:04] I want to thank you for doing your interview from outside. It's very relaxing and, and the wind chimes in the background because the beginning of my show was very stressful. I had my first guest on from Israel. And she didn't show up until after the show started. And I was so wound up and stressed out and I was just texting with my executive producer and I said, I just recovered.

[01:10:25] Right. And she said, why? I said, because these beautiful wind chimes are playing in the background of dr. Crohn's Steen's video feed, and I'm listening to you and I'm kind of being lulled into this relaxed state of mind and the beautiful green trees behind you. And it's just. So I want to thank you for doing the interview from where you are.

[01:10:45] I also want to thank you for this research because I really think that there's a lot to this. And I think there probably are things that some of us can do to make sure that our bodies are producing the amount of adenosine that it should [01:11:00] instead of less, you know, a little bit more. And that may have an effect on not only as you pointed out.

[01:11:06] On the joints, you know, knees and ankles, hips and all that sort of stuff, but quite possibly the, um, the country has a quiet, uh, epidemic of peripheral neuropathy. And, and when you try to put people in silos and go, well, well, these people are not diabetic and these people are not overweight. Uh, you know, these people don't have sleep apnea, so it's not like something that's happening at night with sleep deprivation, oxygen deprivation.

[01:11:33] But everybody, when you look at. Uh, the rate of, uh, when you look, get the rate of peripheral neuropathy today,  it cuts across every type of group you can think of and every subgroup and it quite could possibly be. I've always suspected coffee because the one thing that everybody does and, you know, I mean, my parents drank coffee.

[01:11:58] It was probably three [01:12:00] ounces. And you could see through it, it looked like rusty water. When you went to a diner back in, when I was a kid, my father is a truck driver. He takes me on the truck. They drank coffee, it looked like rusty water. And it was small. You know, nowadays you drink a VAT of coffee, the turbidity.

[01:12:16] Uh, and it's, it's so dark that there's mud at the bottom of the cup and people drink five, six, seven cups a day. They're getting, you know, 1200 milligrams of caffeine a day. And I keep thinking that a lot of the gut problems and the peripheral neuropathy are coming from everybody, uh, uh, D uh, lust for coffee today.

[01:12:37] And you, you just dropped the fit the piece in my head, like maybe it's because it's suppressing the effectiveness of a dentist scene. From stimulating, um, uh, these, these blood pathways to dilate and it's, they're just getting shrunken and trunk and, and trunk and day after day until all the foot, the nerves just cause when you talk to people with peripheral neuropathy, it's just like when we were [01:13:00] kids and you sat on your leg, watching a good movie and the movie was over and you stood up and your leg didn't work.

[01:13:04] It was like, Oh my God. You know? And then it slowly starts to come back. You get that tingling, you get that. Pain. And that transition is like going through the effort, acts of neuropathy. And I'm, I'm wondering if you're onto something. I think they are two indirectly because of your research.

[01:13:22] Dr. Bruce Cronstein, MD: [01:13:22] May will be, uh, adenosine has been, uh, studied a lot by other people, uh, in terms of its effects on peripheral nerves, as well as, uh, uh, mostly in the central nervous system. Again, that's the caffeine research, uh, came, came out of that. Uh, it's entirely possible that caffeine contributes to these, uh, on neuropathy is although having said that, um, One of the other things that we did in the lab was we showed that a effects of the metabolic effects of alcohol on liver.

[01:13:56] For, for example, that's to make it fatty, uh, [01:14:00] are mediated, uh, at least in large part by a dentist, in acting at a, somewhat different at a, at a different receptor. And, um, if you, uh, if you go back and look at the , um, If you look at people, th there was a huge series in the West coast a few years ago, similar things have been seen in Japan and other populations that the more caffeine you ingest or the more coffee you drank, let's put it that way.

[01:14:29] Um, the more coffee you drank, the less likely you are to die of liver disease. So I don't know if you're substituting coffee for, you know, for Jim beam or something, but, uh, uh, but you know, and, and there, there are a lot of things that come into play there, but, uh, but at least in my research that there's some evidence, uh, of, of effect.

[01:14:51] Effects on the liver as well. Right? So I, you know, it's, uh, this, this would be, there were, these receptors are [01:15:00] everywhere. They do lots of different things, which some of which are beneficial in some settings, some of which are not beneficial. And, uh, you have to be able to target that.

[01:15:11] Carl Lanore: [01:15:11] Dr. Crohns Dean, thanks so much for being on the show today.

[01:15:16] Okay.

[01:15:17] Dr. Bruce Cronstein, MD: [01:15:17] My pleasure. Thanks for having me

[01:15:18] Carl Lanore: [01:15:18] have a peaceful afternoon. Thank you. And that's it for today's show. I do have a show tomorrow, tomorrow, as I said earlier, uh, Ben Greenfield will be on when we, he will help me launch a new series. And the series is called the fathers and sons. And I just want to start asking people questions about how they raised their boys.

[01:15:39] Um, you know, a lot of, a lot of problems are being blamed on fathers and fatherless households. And just because the father lives in the household doesn't mean that he's contributing to, uh, a model for the boys. Uh, I want to hear who people I respect. Like Ben, like Mark, uh, [01:16:00] will, who were the big influences on them as young boys that molded them into being the fathers that they are today.

[01:16:06] Uh, and I think that it's a very, very important and timely discussion. So that's tomorrow don't miss it. If you can tune in live, that'd be great. Cause you can ask Ben questions. I'm sure he'll answer them all directly. Uh, and so that's it. So share, today's show these. So I know that I got a lot of messages from people saying that.

[01:16:25] It was very, very hard, uh, to understand, uh, dr. Morgenstern, uh, as Regina Martz put up, um, wonder what she thinks about the CP protocol. I'm not sure what the CP protocol is. Um, but vitamin D is one of those vitamins that you absolutely should test. And not get too high and not get too low. If you're supplementing, if you're out in the sea, don't even worry about it.

[01:16:50] The body takes care of itself. And when I reintroduced primal D in a couple months, don't worry about it either, because it's going to work just like this son. It is coming back. It's [01:17:00] time to reintroduce it. Uh, but nonetheless, Uh, I know that she was hard to understand, but the takeaway is this. And I, and I, they all, I was already told that on our Instagram feed, we already have a COVID-19 warning that I put up, you know?

[01:17:16] Cause anytime you talk about COVID-19, it's like, Oh, this hasn't been approved by dr. Fowchee. Um, the research from multiple places that vitamin D. Is either protective against getting infected or stops you from getting severe symptoms from retroviruses, including SARS Cove, including, um, murders, including HIV it's it's been done for decades.

[01:17:46] We know this. So this idea that, Oh, we can't talk about vitamin D that's approved by dr. Fowchee or whoever the powers are that are making decisions on what we should be taking today. Don't even listen to them, make sure you keep your [01:18:00] vitamin D levels in that safe, upper range, work with your doctor to get tested, try to get in that 40 to 80 range and just stay there.

[01:18:10] That's it. That's it. I don't believe that all, you know, once you have a, you know, over 40, you're fine. No, you may be protected against some viruses, but there are other things that vitamin D does. And the reality is that if doctors was smart, the way they test for vitamin D levels in people, is this. They would get your vitamin D levels up and check calcitonin levels coming from the parathyroid, because when you're getting enough vitamin D the parathyroid doesn't have to produce bone mineralized hormones.

[01:18:43] And because the vitamin D is doing the job. So once you are your vitamin D level, is this. And all of a sudden parathyroid drops to two to nothing. You can stop there. You could stop there. That is your personal magic [01:19:00] zone for vitamin D. Um, we know this and doctors know this. If you tell this to a doctor, go all your, that makes sense, but do you do it?

[01:19:07] No, I don't do it. So until people start checking how the parathyroid reacts to your personal vitamin D levels, we're just, we're just treating everybody the same. And we already know that that doesn't work. So there you go. I look, thanks for watching today. Thanks for listening live today. Please share the show.

[01:19:25] And also if this show has done anything good for you, I'm asking you to go to this URL. Okay. And that is tap AP bio slash superhuman radio, all one word and upload them. Short 62nd, no longer than three minutes. Little self video of what you think about the show. If you like it, you don't like it. It has to show helped.

[01:19:53] You. You think I'm a jerk. Put that up there too. Cause I'm hoping to get some of those. I'm sure a lot of people who don't like me, but please. [01:20:00] Put that up there for me against the URL is tap, tap.bio/super Yuma radio. Just tape a short little, your personal, super human radio story. I'd really appreciate it.

[01:20:12] And we'll see everybody tomorrow with more superhuman radio. Thank you for watching today. [01:21:00] .