[00:00:00] Ben Greenfield: [00:00:00] Repair to

[00:00:02] Carl Lanore: [00:00:02] experience the strongest radio allowable. Bye

[00:00:05]okay. Hey, welcome back

[00:00:06] to another episode of super human radio. Today is August 21st, 2020, and this is our maiden voyage of a new episode that we're going to be doing periodically called the fathers and sons. Uh, before I talk about that, um, our first guest is going to be, uh, Ben Greenfield. He'll be with us in just a minute.

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[00:00:49] I've done shows over the years where I've talked about the fact that more men successfully commit suicide. Every year more men are addicted to drugs and alcohol, more [00:01:00] men are institutionalized, more men are incarcerated, and you would think that people would be paying attention to this. Right? This is like very gender specific.

[00:01:09] Why is this happening? What's happening. We have a lot of problems today and more and more people are being vocal about fatherless households

[00:01:17] Ben Greenfield: [00:01:17] for

[00:01:17] Carl Lanore: [00:01:17] you years. The father really didn't matter if you've ever been in family court. Like I have disposable if you're a man, uh, they have a center women and families.

[00:01:27] They don't have a center for women, men, and families. Um, you know, when you hunt, you can take a buck or two, uh, but you gotta have a tag to get a DOE and you usually can only take one dough. And so, you know, I really started to think that fathers, at least my father, now that I look back and he's gone, um, play a large role in who they are, sons become.

[00:01:52] That's not to say that mothers don't play a role as well, but fathers, a web boys learn to [00:02:00] become men. And, uh, I'm going to bring my, my guest on now.

[00:02:05] Ben Greenfield: [00:02:05] He is walking in

[00:02:06] Carl Lanore: [00:02:06] his.

[00:02:08] Ben Greenfield: [00:02:08] His

[00:02:08] Carl Lanore: [00:02:08] typical approach whenever he does a podcast, how are you doing Ben?

[00:02:14] Ben Greenfield: [00:02:14] I'm good. I'm huffing and puffing a little more than usual. I've got an elk hunt coming up in a couple of weeks.

[00:02:20] So all my walks. Now you have this. 50 pound weighted vest on. Uh, and, uh, it feels good though. It feels good to load up the body, get a little stroll in and they're happy to be talking to you, Carl.

[00:02:32] Carl Lanore: [00:02:32] Yeah. I'm happy to be talking to you too. I wanted you to be the first person to do this because I've watched you from afar.

[00:02:38] Um, I see the things that you do with your boys. I know you've even gotten your boys to start doing a podcast here and there. Uh, and, and, you know, um, being a thought leader, if I can call you that, uh, puts a great deal of weight on a person, no pun intended. Uh, and I often wonder what effects that has on the young men, [00:03:00] um, in, in the family.

[00:03:01] I want to start off with, I've got a list of the questions I want to go through. So to just humor me for a second,

[00:03:06] Ben Greenfield: [00:03:06] Okay.

[00:03:07] Carl Lanore: [00:03:07] Who, who influenced you the most as a young boy?

[00:03:12] Ben Greenfield: [00:03:12] Well, that's a good question. I mean, my, uh, my father was not fully present. His father was not fully present for him. You know, that's something I'm very focused on breaking in terms of that cycle with my own sons, that cycle of, of working, providing for the family fulfilling Maslow's hierarchy, but being absent in the process, right.

[00:03:33] Having your. Your children's idea of you providing for the family being associated with seeing the back of your head when you walk out the door and then, you know, you being exhausted at the end of the day, right. And maybe not even present for, uh, for say a family dinner or family time at night. And so for me, growing up, you know, my father was a serial entrepreneur.

[00:03:55] He was a firefighter up until I was 13 and then a bunch of businesses after that. [00:04:00] And I love my dad. We have a good relationship now, but, um, you know, he was certainly not fully present in my life growing up, you know, a lot of the things I had learned, uh, growing up everything from, uh, how to shave, how to fish, how to hunt, how to field dress, you know, how to lift weights, all that stuff.

[00:04:20] W w you know, I kind of had to teach myself, you know, I, I learned to learn a lot just from. YouTube and books and being homeschooled K through 12 for me. Um, I w I was pretty comfortable with that idea of self-education and being a self made man, but, uh, really, um, I'm often asked who my mentors have been, who, uh, who are the influential people in my life has been, I've been, and I've never really, really been the type of guy who turns to mentors.

[00:04:53] Um, I've, I, I didn't really have. A lot of that growing up either. So for me, you know, [00:05:00] really my primary influences were books. You know, author's like Jared Tolkien and C S Lewis and Arthur Conan Doyle. And I spent a great deal of time with my head down in books growing up. And then, um, you know, from there I've have certainly had men that I've learned a little bit from here and there along the way, but ultimately.

[00:05:20] For me, uh, it was, it was a lot of self-education and self mentorship. So, uh, I don't necessarily think that's the way that things should be, but that's the way things worked for me.

[00:05:31] Carl Lanore: [00:05:31] Well, so w we're staying with this theme who. In your journey has contributed to what you feel. A father, a good father is. Uh, are there men that you knew that you thought when I have boys or when I have children, I'm going to, I'm going to integrate that into the way I am a father,

[00:05:52] Ben Greenfield: [00:05:52] you know, not necessarily there are, there are men who I certainly.

[00:05:58] Bounce things off of, [00:06:00] in, uh, in the community. You know, I talked to guys like, um, like, uh, Ben Nikolsky and Elliot Holts and, uh, you know, even some, some guys who are in the younger phases of fatherhood, like, uh, Kyle Kingsbury, for example, you know, a lot of guys in the fitness sector who are trying to raise their boys to be strong young men.

[00:06:22] And we certainly courage each other and build each other up. But, um, You know, in terms of an ideal father, I never really had a, anyone who I really placed on a pedestal as an ideal father, aside from, I suppose, if you were to count this, which I think you arguably could, it would just be God, you know, for me growing up as a, as a Christian and having, having the Bible by my bedside every morning and every night, you know, I, I saw how not only, you know, God led.

[00:06:52] The Jewish people and eventually all people as a, as a loving father, but there were also a lot of examples of, of strong men in the [00:07:00] Bible that I turned to, you know, and, and even strong fathers, you know, folks like a King David, for example, you know, people like, uh, like Moses and Aaron and. Gideon and Samson, and a lot of these strong leaders in the Bible.

[00:07:15] I, I admired them quite a bit as well. And a big stage that you see over and over again, those examples is sacrifice selflessness, but also, you know, a great amount of, of strength kind of combined with, with love, you know, being a disciplinary leader and being able to lead the family as a true father. And as a King, but not in the spirit of, of dictatorship or authoritarianism, but rather from a spirit of love.

[00:07:45] And, uh, and that's really the way that I've approached fathering my own boys, you know, educating them about the consequences of their decision, leaving them as, as much as possible to be able to make their own decisions and live with the consequences. [00:08:00] But, you know, occasionally I. You know, I, I, I, I do lay down the law and, you know, and, and ask them to do things they might not otherwise.

[00:08:09] Do you know, there's this past. Uh, you know, series of, of weeks during the COVID locked down, for example, you know, I've had them in the sauna every day, single night, you know, doing 30 to 45 minutes of deep breath work and sweating. And then, you know, from there going into, you know, 30, 33 degrees in a cold pool, just sitting for two to three minutes and being comfortable with your breath as your body freezes and learning how to control your physiology via your breath.

[00:08:33] Those are things that they would not voluntarily do yet. I, you know, I tell them they need to do those things with me because I know. That it's going to help them become stronger men and stronger leaders themselves.

[00:08:45] Carl Lanore: [00:08:45] Uh, is diff do you feel discipline is different for boys versus girls? I, you don't, I don't think you have any daughters.

[00:08:51] You have don't you don't have any daughters, right?

[00:08:53] Ben Greenfield: [00:08:53] Not yet. No, we're actually, we're, we're trying for a, for a third child and that'd be, I'd be happy as a clam. If the word [00:09:00] daughter, do you think it's different for

[00:09:02] Carl Lanore: [00:09:02] boys? Discipline is different for boys than girls.

[00:09:06] Ben Greenfield: [00:09:06] Uh, not necessarily. I think that that some amount of discipline is gone going to, to help, to refine and mold any individual.

[00:09:15] Um, you know, in terms of boys, I think that sometimes, um, the, the physical disciplines are things that they need more than girls or, you know, if I had a little girl, I don't know if I'd be doing as much, like, you know, kettlebell swing in the garage and, you know, sandbag beat downs up and down the driveway.

[00:09:34] And. You know, wilderness survival excursions, but at the same time, you know, I do know a lot of women who, who are very strong and, and they are, you know, authors and weightlifters and, you know, and, and, and there's strong women. I think that as long as you're able to do that and maintain some amount of feminine essence, then, you know, that's, that's certainly something that could work.

[00:09:54] But I can't say I can speak from personal experience, um, in terms of the difference in discipline between [00:10:00] boys versus girls.

[00:10:02] Carl Lanore: [00:10:02] How about non-negotiable things are there, you know, I learned a long time ago, raising children, you have to kind of pick your fights. Are there non-negotiable things for you, maybe as the boys get older, that you already have said, you know, this is where I'm going to draw the line.

[00:10:16] This kind of stuff is not gonna happen.

[00:10:19] Ben Greenfield: [00:10:19] Uh, not necessarily, you know, there's, there's certainly, you know, thing, things that I know are not going to serve a young man. Well, such as, uh, A use of pornography. I think that sets kids up from a dopaminergic standpoint to, uh, be in a, in a, in a very, very significant evolutionary mismatch when it comes to them, you know, being surrounded by images or, or photos or access to.

[00:10:46] Members of the opposite sex as potential mates, that from an evolutionary standpoint would have been very rare. Like we never, we never would have been surrounded by, you know, large amounts of beautiful women that we could copulate with. And I think that that just basically exhausts [00:11:00] the dopaminergic pathways very quickly.

[00:11:02] And, you know, there's, there's great websites that like, you know, your brain on porn.com that I kind of highlight the, the reason that that is. Uh, and, um, you know, in a situation like that, again, the way I lay down the law in our home, I teach the boys about those scopolamine pathways about neuro-transmitters about the way that we would have been with women from an ancestral standpoint.

[00:11:25] And then there is no rule in our house that says, Oh, you can't, you can't go to porn websites. I mean, they can, they can do, you know, for a large part screen time, you know, consumption of gluten dairy, corn access, you know, later. Anything that that might be considered potentially harmful physically or biologically, you know, I don't require them to abstain from those things, but I teach them about the consequences of those decisions.

[00:11:51] As far as non negotiables. I can't say that there's been many times using my voice when I've had to put my foot down and simply say, you're not going to do [00:12:00] that. Maybe that's because I've just gotten lucky and I've got good boy. But, um, no, there's, there's not a whole lot of. Non negotiables in our house.

[00:12:08] The probably the main thing that we do every single day without fail is we gather as a family on the, on the front porch, if it's in the summer, out in the sunshine, or if it's in the winter, in the living room by the fireplace and we meditate for 10 minutes as a family each morning, deep breathing, usually some kind of good music in the background.

[00:12:29] Eyes closed connected to our breath. Six count and six count out. No tongue resting on the bottom of the mouth, dark empty space in the back of the eyes. And we do that every single morning. We follow that up with a gratitude journaling and then writing down one person who we can pray for or help or serve that day.

[00:12:50] And that's that's every single morning. And that is kind of a, I guess you would say non negotiable and then every single evening. Uh, we have giant lovely, joyous [00:13:00] family dinners. Sometimes with people over sometimes with just our family. They're typically an hour to an hour and a half long, everyone pitches in and makes food.

[00:13:09] Um, everyone helps. And then afterwards we all go into the boy's bedroom. I play the music on the guitar or the ukulele, and then we return to our journals and we bookend the day by writing down. Uh, in a process of self examination, what good have I done this day? And then what could I have done better this day?

[00:13:31] Right. So, so we're learning from our failures and we're having to go back and analyze each day and how it actually went, which I think is a very powerful exercise itself. And then both of my boys have purpose statements. They have one single succinct purpose state, I mean, for their lives. And in addition to the self examination at the end of the day, we write down what is one way.

[00:13:53] That I fulfilled my life's purpose today. And so every single morning we have that meditation with gratitude and service, every [00:14:00] single evening, family dinners, music self-examination and purpose statement. And, um, if, if those were present our home, it would feel very strange. We've woven those in as something is as habitual is she wants teeth or, you know, or, um, you know, or exercise or anything.

[00:14:19] So we might do, though. Those are just, I suppose, non-negotiables.

[00:14:23] Carl Lanore: [00:14:23] Are the boys allowed to change your purpose statement? Is it something that's organic and evolving? This is it for the rest of your life.

[00:14:31] Ben Greenfield: [00:14:31] The purpose statement definitely evolves. That's important for people to know my own purpose statement for years was to empower people to live a more adventurous, joyful and fulfilling life.

[00:14:41] And that was great when I was all over the globe, participating in Ironman triathlons and Spartan races, and really considering myself as kind of like a, you know, a guy out there on the front lines of battle and inspiring others to go to battle and to live their own adventures. And as I've gotten older, I've realized that I want to step into more of a little bit of a, of a [00:15:00] mentorship role and also become more intimately.

[00:15:05] I'm connected to some of the, some of the more creative aspects of life. And some of the things that I think at this point in my life are going to move the dial more in terms of. Impact and purpose. And so now it's not to empower people to live a more adventurous, joyful and fulfilling life. Now, my purpose statement is to read, write, learn, teach, sing, speak, compete, and create in full presence and in selfless love to the glory of God.

[00:15:31] Right? And so, so, you know, that might change two years from now. Uh, both of my boys purpose statements are largely centered around using their love for. Uh, for art and culture to entertain people, to educate people and to inspire people, uh, and to, uh, inspire feelings of, of strong emotion like joy and laughter and, uh, as those are their purpose statements.

[00:15:56] My wife's purpose statement is, is very, very simple. Hers is [00:16:00] simply to minister to her family every day and the best way possible. And, you know, all of these purpose statements may change. And that's, what's important is, is to understand that, you know, as, as life changes, as you're answering your chapters of the book, that is your life, you may find that the purpose statement that might have really inspired you to go out and whatever, you know, Race or, or compete or, you know, build a, build a business.

[00:16:23] It might change and, and that's perfectly acceptable and something that you should certainly give yourself permission to do.

[00:16:29] Carl Lanore: [00:16:29] So go, going from a boy to a man yourself and observing the journey in the rear view mirror. Do you think that there are any important qualities that young boys must learn in order to have.

[00:16:43] Uh, huh, good, uh, enjoyable, fulfilling, successful lives.

[00:16:50] Ben Greenfield: [00:16:50] Yeah, I think that, uh, you could, you could largely chunk things as falling into the category of physical disciplines. Mental disciplines and spiritual [00:17:00] disciplines. I think, I think that that physical disciplines, some are, those are something that you've talked about, exhaustively of the show.

[00:17:05] And, and we know that you know, that a child can grow up with strength, power, speed, balance, mobility, coordination, playing a wide variety of sports as David Epstein points out quite well in his recent book range. The importance of that versus single sport specialization, and then getting exposed to a wide variety of functional skills, you know?

[00:17:26] And so, you know, what I do is every Sunday I write out what my boys' workouts for the week are going to be. And some of those are working out alongside me. Some of those are their own routines. Some of them aren't traditional workouts like might involve, you know, for example, yesterday, their workout was, um, Uh, 40 rounds of Wim Hof breathing followed by two minutes in the cold plunge, get out of the cold plunge, do 30 pushups and do 30 or not 33 rounds of that.

[00:17:57] Right? Such as breath, work, cold and body weight [00:18:00] calisthenics. But then, you know, uh, three days ago we all had our bows out. We had 60 pound backpacks on and we were doing quarter mile loops of the trail around our house. Stop. After each quarter mile loop, take three shots. Well, you let the heart rate go down and you train yourself to focus while under stress.

[00:18:17] They do another loop, right? And so those physical disciplines, just a broad range of physical disciplines, I think that's important. Um, the next would be mental discipline. What I mean by that is that, you know, I really think that every kid, boy or girl should have a strong grasp of, of five basic mental disciplinary skills that I think are going to set you up for success.

[00:18:42] In any career, whether you're going to go to engineering or law, law, or medicine, you name it, and those skills would be reading. In other words, the ability to be able to assimilate information at a relatively rapid pace and digest that information and train the muscle that is used to [00:19:00] digest that information.

[00:19:00] So, you know, every week I select one book from the bookshelf in our massive library downstairs, and I assign it to the boys. Often it's a book they wouldn't normally choose themselves, uh, meaning that it might be 12 rules for life by Jordan Peterson, or it might be principles by Ray Daleo. You'll not books that 12 year old would normally choose and their goal is, or their, their, uh, their assignment is to complete that book within a week's time and generate a one to two page book report from what they've read.

[00:19:30] And so they're growing up with this idea that. The human brain can collect information at a relatively rapid pace. And I think reading is one, the second is writing, being able to dictate thoughts on paper intelligent manner, which is where those book reports fit in, as well as some other writing projects that they do and ask to go beyond like 140 character tweet or a text message, which is largely how I think young men and women these days are communicating.

[00:19:57] And instead involves being able to more eloquently lay [00:20:00] out your thoughts in long. Written word format, which I think is a, is the loss of disappearing skill as attention span. And as the length of the information that we get exposed to seems to decrease with increasing frequency. I think that writing long form content is another really good skill in the, in the mental disciplines category.

[00:20:20] And then the, uh, in addition of reading and writing. Uh, some basic understanding of arithmetic and especially arithmetic as it relates to life skills, right? So not just algebra and calculus equations for the sake of passing a test. But instead, you know, for example, they spent last summer building a tree for learning angles, learning geometry calculated the amount of materials that they need for the roof, for the flooring.

[00:20:44] For the, for the beams. Um, you know, whenever we go to a restaurant they're in charge of calculating the tip, whenever we go shopping at the grocery store, they're in charge of finding the best deals, right? So, so mathematics, but mathematics applied in a very logical way to life. And then they'll the [00:21:00] last two, in addition to reading, writing, and arithmetic for the, for the mental disciplines.

[00:21:03] Would it be a logic or computer programming, right. Either, either one or both, but just basically being able to think in terms of, you know, equals B a, B equals C therefore equals C and B being able to simply think logically and, um, in our day and age that might also include, you know, things like, for example, they have a subscription to a service called Bitsbox where they get, you know, this little box of, uh, of app and computer coding materials sent to our house.

[00:21:31] And they simply sit down with their computers or their eye touches and work on programming based on that box that they receive. And then the final one would be, um, rhetoric slash persuasion, right. Being able to argue. Being able to understand game theory, being able to, to speak and speak in a way that defends your position.

[00:21:52] A big part of that honestly is just our family game nights. I mean, every single night we're playing Scrabble and quibbler and [00:22:00] boggle. And can I ask them, you know, all these, all these games that develop a strong sense of game theory. But that also really engage in many cases, rhetoric argumentation, being able to defend a position.

[00:22:12] And that also includes things like, you know, speech and debate theater. Just this idea of being able to not just write what it is that you're thinking in an elegant fashion, but being able to speak to that as well. And so reading, writing, arithmetic, logic and rhetoric, I think are five kind of non-negotiables.

[00:22:31] When it comes to the, to the mental disciplines that you lay down in addition to the physical disciplines and then the last one category. And I think this is very important. And again, an oft neglected component would be the spiritual disciplines. Spiritual disciplines are something that we weave into the boy's life every day.

[00:22:48] And I briefly alluded to those earlier, but that would be things like gratitude, journaling, meditation. Breath work, silence and salt. I'm fasting [00:23:00] some amount of, of like immersion in, in like religion or a belief in a higher power or a study of spirituality. And, and I think that those really helped to feed the soul, which is often neglect, did even in many young individuals.

[00:23:14] I think once you put those, those three gather, you know, a wide range of physical disciplines, those five non-negotiables reading, writing, arithmetic, logic, and rhetoric for your mental disciplines, and then a whole host of spiritual disciplines. Whereas you can learn more about, you know, excellent books, like, you know, Richard Foster celebration disciplines, or, you know, there's another great book called the spiritual disciplines handbook by Adele Calhoun.

[00:23:36] Um, then, then, then you've kind of got things set up for, for a well rounded individual. Who's incorporated a lot of what I would consider to be very, very good disciplines and habits for building a well rounded adult.

[00:23:49] Carl Lanore: [00:23:49] Do you, do you ever talk to your boys about aggression? Self-defense when it's appropriate when it's not,

[00:23:58] Ben Greenfield: [00:23:58] I [00:24:00] don't talk to them that much about that.

[00:24:02] And the reason for that is because my friend, Adam Smith is an amazing jujitsu instructor who also does a lot of anti-bullying classes, self defense classes, and trains, children, how to use violence responsibly growing up, I did a lot of rough housing with the boys. I, um, I printed off these giant wall posters that would involve, you know, games like, um, you know, standing on one leg and playing the sword game where you're trying to hit each other with your finger.

[00:24:27] And. You know, and, and big tug of Wars and, and a lot of, kind of like hand to hand combat that I do with them when they were three, four or five years old, starting at, uh, at, uh, eight years old, they started working with Adam three times a week in jujitsu. And he's just so good at teaching. And a lot of those principles as far as responsible use of violence self-defense and especially with jujitsu, self-defense in a manner that might not really harm the other individual as much as kind of put them to sleep.

[00:24:54] Um, you know, I've. I don't know if the right word is outsourced, but, but I, I trust [00:25:00] the man that's training my boys in self-defense. So they go and roll with a bunch of other boys and girls at his jujitsu clinic three times a week. He comes up to the house one or two times a week and trains them privately.

[00:25:12] And so, um, you know, he could buy it with a little bit of striking, but for the most part, a lot of their self defense is something that, that I have. Uh, I have a guy working with them on.

[00:25:21] Carl Lanore: [00:25:21] So we have a question from someone watching on, uh, on YouTube, a faith fitness guy. He says, ah, we've done well with the Trivium and spirituality.

[00:25:32] I don't know what Trivium is, but he, but what would you suggest for getting children interested in physical culture?

[00:25:40] Ben Greenfield: [00:25:40] Yeah, by the Trivium. Yeah. I think he's actually referring to the classical education principles. That really are what I described earlier. The reading, writing, logic, arithmetic, and rhetoric, and, um, the, for the, for the physical disciplines, you know, it is a little bit interesting because, um, you know, for example, my [00:26:00] boys, if given the choice.

[00:26:01] Would probably spend most of their time indoors painting and reading, which is kind of weird for me. Cause I was really into physical culture at about their age and, and had a lot more of an inclination to kind of go outdoors. You know, I played a lot of tennis. I did a lot of, kind of like hiking in the Hills, back behind her home, you know, building big rock walls and rock fortresses and all sorts of things like that.

[00:26:22] And they're, they're a little bit more, um, More kind of like creative, romantic, um, and a lot more kind of dialed into to art. And so, um, you know, for, for, for them, it's been a few things. Um, first of all, you know, doing the workouts with dad and also having every Sunday night, you know, they both have their little Mac books that they use for their schooling.

[00:26:46] And I have a shared Google document. They get every Sunday night along with the checklist that they are workouts. I specifically designed for the boys. That's just. That, that they, they complete by the end of the week, they got to have them all checked off. That's just part of their, part of their training each [00:27:00] week.

[00:27:00] And then, you know, you throw a lot of noodles at the wall to see what sticks, you know, we put them in basketball, we put them in soccer, we put them in jujitsu, we put them in tennis. Um, and, uh, you know, even things like, you know, horseback riding and skateboarding and mountain biking and paddle boarding, and that you just kind of step back and see what it is.

[00:27:19] They're really interested in see what camps they say. They come back from and say, Oh, that was amazing. I want to go back. And really for our kids, the main things that, that really seem to have stuck are jujitsu, tennis, um, hiking slash hunting, like a lot of, kind of like the wilderness survival type of stuff.

[00:27:36] And I would, I would say plant foraging kind of fits in along with that as well. And then, uh, anything related to the water, like swimming, paddle boarding, anything along those lines. And so. Seeing what it is that really lights them up. Those are the types of things that I continue to surround them with.

[00:27:51] And if I see a new camper, a new sport arise that I think I'd at least be interested in for them to get exposed to, you know, I'll put them in the camp and they'll spend a few [00:28:00] days and. You know, sometimes they'll just come back and he could tell it wasn't, it wasn't a huge highlight for them. You know, basketball being a perfect example, which is super surprising that makes I loved basketball growing up.

[00:28:10] I begged my parents to go to basketball camp. I would be in like six basketball camps every summer. And my kids, like, they shoot hoops with me occasionally boy, and that's about it and that's fine. But you know, at the same time they, you know, they know more jujitsu holds and moves then than I do. Uh, and.

[00:28:28] Yeah. And that's because that's what they enjoy. That's what they've decided they liked. Yeah. They like to kind of explore same thing with tennis. So, you know, you're exposed them to a wide variety of VSB camps. Yeah, mentors via tutors via excursions with you. And then you just kind of step back and see what sticks.

[00:28:43] Yeah.

[00:28:44] Carl Lanore: [00:28:44] We're going to take a quick commercial break. We have questions and comments loading up here. This is very fascinating. I think several people have already mentioned how inspiring of some of this information is, and I think it's really important because, um, we, we have to help [00:29:00] boys become men. You know, I, I interviewed dr.

[00:29:04] Judy Kerri-Ann ski about 10 years ago and I found something, she said, fascinating. He said, boys cry more frequently. Boy, babies cry more frequently than girl babies until boys are around five years old. And that's because they're told boys don't cry and I had made this connection and I said, well, maybe that's why we have so many men addicted to drugs and porn and alcohol and in institutions and committing suicide, because boys are taught at a young age that you're not supposed to display those kinds of emotions.

[00:29:42] And I think that, well, go ahead. I'm sorry. Go.

[00:29:45] Ben Greenfield: [00:29:45] Then, you know, we can get into it after the commercial break. I disagree. I disagree. I think there's a, there's another reason for that. But I also, I also have a, have a thought about the emotional piece as well, and about the, uh, about the, about the crying. So yeah, we, we can, we [00:30:00] can,

[00:30:00] Carl Lanore: [00:30:00] yeah, let's take that on the other side, I stay tuned.

[00:30:02] We'll be right back with more of a Ben Greenfield, stay tuned. With the weight of the world

[00:30:12] come back.

[00:30:14] Ben Greenfield: [00:30:14] I

[00:30:14] Carl Lanore: [00:30:14] don't know if we lost Ben or not. I know he's walking. Oh, you're there.

[00:30:18] Ben Greenfield: [00:30:18] Okay. Okay. There you go. I'm I'm I'm I'm here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um,

[00:30:22] Carl Lanore: [00:30:22] okay, so let's pick that back up. So going into the break, I, I suggested this idea that a boy babies cry more frequently than grow babies until they're told don't cry.

[00:30:32] And could that potentially be the reason why we have the abundance of, uh, men out there who were institutionalized, committing suicide, et cetera.

[00:30:42] Ben Greenfield: [00:30:42] Yeah. They know that boys naturally just tend to be a little bit more belligerent and have louder voices when they're babies. And you know, I'm not, I'm not convinced that that by us, you know, hushing up boys and telling them that boys don't cry, we're creating violence later on in their [00:31:00] lives.

[00:31:00] I think that in many cases, Man has been taught that wearing your emotions on your sleeves and being very emotional, you know, crying and being very in touch with your, with your feelings is perhaps overemphasized in many cases versus stoicism stiff upper lip. Like when you get hurt, you bite your upper lip, right?

[00:31:21] You try to keep the tears from coming and you be tough. You handle it because a lot of times, you know, like if I, if I put one of my boys, Uh, in, in the, in the ice tub and they're in there freezing the ice tub and they start to cry. I don't tell them cry. I don't tell them. Yeah. Let out your emotions that you're feeling and tell them, start breathing through your nose.

[00:31:40] Start breathing through your nose. Okay. Smile to yourself. Lean back, settle your emotions. Be in control of your emotions. Use your breath to control your physiology. You do not cry in the cold pool. You're training your nervous system to be resilient, to stress and resilience to stress does not involve crying under stress.

[00:31:59] Anybody knows [00:32:00] that if you're in a fight and you start to cry, your tears, cloud your eyes, you know? Yeah. You, you, you began to feel a little bit more weak. We know that emotion can create motion and. And sad emotions can create weak emotion. And so this, this idea of, of suppressing, uh, of, of suppressing boys not to cry, I don't necessarily think that's, that's making weak, man.

[00:32:25] I think that there are times when a man should cry. I cry. I cry in front of my boys. I don't necessarily, if my boys are crying for good reason, like a dog has died or a loved one is hurt or, or someone has, has done something to their brother or insulted their mother, or they know their father is going through a very tough time.

[00:32:43] I think those are all cases where crying could be appropriate. Um, I think crying in response to physical stress. It's something that, that should actually be suppressed in boys. They should stay stoic and learn how to control their emotions, especially in the face of physical stress. But yeah, think that beyond that, [00:33:00] you know, I just, I should say one of the thing by the way.

[00:33:02] I, I don't, I don't think that that should be equated with suppression of one's emotions overall. Right. We know that if we look at a, an essay or a book like Bonnie rares, uh, five regrets of the dying, right. I, I wish I wish I'd. I chose to be happier. I wish I'd stayed in touch with old friends more. I wish I'd have been who I truly am instead of who I expected the world wanted me to be.

[00:33:25] I wish I hadn't worked so hard and what's the fifth. I wish I'd had the courage to express my true feelings and emotions. Right. So I don't think having the courage to express your true feelings and emotions is something we should the Abilify. But I do think that, um, guys should be taught that there are situations in which a man should stay stoic and strong and be a dependable foundation.

[00:33:44] Who's not shaking with tears when time gets tough. Now I think one of the reasons for the violence and the irresponsibility amongst men in our society is twofold. Number one, you already alluded to Carl fatherlessness. The [00:34:00] lack of a strong rock foundation, father leader, and King who shows a boy what true responsibility is.

[00:34:07] And it's unfortunate in that in an era where men are raised, where response or irresponsibility is acceptable, sleeping with multiple women, knocking them up, leaving them. I'm behind a raise the children on their own, creating a situation in which the government and the welfare state steps in to take the role of the father.

[00:34:27] I think that all of that is despicable. I think that fathers should be expected to be more responsible to stick with their decisions. Yeah. They have a, uh, a child, an unwanted child with a woman. You take responsibility, you marry her, you raise that child, you create a stable one for that child. And you know, I think that's missing weak fathers who run from their responsibilities because of the fun that they're having is one.

[00:34:51] Big issue and a big reason for that is because those boys didn't grow up with a good role model. Those boys grew up with the same type of dads. Fatherlessness is one thing. The [00:35:00] other thing is that. Boys, never rarely in our day and age, at least in Western culture, unlike many Hunter gatherer cultures or indigenous tribes have a recognizable passage into manhood, have a recognizable ceremony and, um, and, and event that takes place somewhere between 13 and 17 years old.

[00:35:21] That is usually some type of a crucible, some type of a coral, some type of a, an, a goji, some type of Spartan esque scenario in which that boy goes to hell and back, whether that be a wilderness survival excursion, solo days out in the wilderness, whether that be a physical, like a very difficult adventure race, whether it be a hunt where they're off killing their first animal to provide for the family, followed by a ceremony in which they're recognized as a man.

[00:35:48] And they're expected to provide for their family more, to take care of themselves more, to pay their own bills more. We don't have something like that that many men go through. And so men girls grow up looking like [00:36:00] man anatomically. And in many cases, actually, even because they didn't have a right to passage using things like the gym and physical culture to try to look like even more of a man physically, yet they've never spiritually or mentally.

[00:36:13] Become a man nor has society. Formally recognized them as a man. So we've got a bunch of big boy bodies running around with little boy brains and little boy souls, because the complete absence of near absence of a Rite of passage in our society, kids, and especially boys need that recognizable ceremonial head nod towards the fact that they become men and are responsible contributors to society.

[00:36:38] And I think that's, that's very, very important for boys and between the absence of that. And then father absence. I think those are, those are way bigger issues than the fact that, you know, boys are being told they shouldn't cry.

[00:36:52] Carl Lanore: [00:36:52] I love it. I love it a lot.

[00:36:54] Ben Greenfield: [00:36:54] Um,

[00:36:54] Carl Lanore: [00:36:54] do you give the boys the latitude to disagree with you?

[00:36:59] Ben Greenfield: [00:36:59] Absolutely. [00:37:00] Absolutely. That relates back to the rhetoric piece, to the argumentation piece. But the disagreements are usually around like games and game theory or, you know, the way that we might be cooking something in the kitchen, you know, via something they've discovered a different cookery technique or something like that.

[00:37:17] Um, it's, it's very seldom that they would actually disagree with me on something that's more of a principle like dad, we don't think we need to be meditating every morning. And I think a big part of that is because a, um, you know, you, as a parent must demonstrate to your children that you believe hardcore what it is that you're teaching them to do or encouraging them or requiring them to do meaning when there's downtime in our house, you know, I'm not on Netflix, I'm not on my phone.

[00:37:45] I don't have a screen in front of my face. I've usually got my nose in a book or I'm playing a musical instrument or I'm exercising or bettering my body or my brain. And so. You know, if, if I were to tell my boys that they are, they have limited [00:38:00] screen time. Yeah. You know, I'm watching Netflix. So binging on TV shows at night, or I've got my phone out at the dinner table.

[00:38:07] They're going to take that far away seriously and be far less likely to agree with me or to not push back on me compared to you, if I'm actually demonstrating exactly what it is that I'm recommending that they do. And because we don't have a limited screen time in our house, They can play as many video games, watch as much TV as they want, but it's not even something that we do.

[00:38:27] It's not something our family identifies with the TVs on like once a month for maybe like 20 minutes. And you know, it it's, it's this idea that it must begin with you demonstrating to your children and then it also. Must must, must involve love. If, if you're required for your children, boys, our girls are based around disciplinary aneurysm, authoritarianism, dictatorship, you putting your foot down and saying, this is the way the house is going to be.

[00:38:51] Versus you leading with it. Love you leading with kindness, you taking the time. Cause it does take time to sit down with your children and you don't [00:39:00] say let's just use a silly example. Like. Our family doesn't eat gluten, and you're not going to have any cupcakes. When you go to Jimmy's birthday party, period, you know, put your foot down, walk away.

[00:39:10] No. I mean, I've spent two hours with my boys walking through the entire digestive system from my college anatomy books, showing them the Villa, showing them where damage occurs, showing them the size of the gluten protein, showing them that single cell epithelial layer between the gut and the bloodstream and explaining to them some of the issues with monocropping and the raping of our, of our nations, uh, soil turning into the, the, the abuse of animals and the whole issue with.

[00:39:36] Modern agriculture and between a lot of the agricultural issues and a lot of the issues with like a, like a week that hasn't been prepared, soaked, fermented, sprouted properly, you know, now they're fully equipped to make a decision, right. And now when they, when they have a cupcake at their birthday party, they're not thinking, Oh, I'm going to be in trouble with that.

[00:39:56] They're thinking, geez, I'm contributing to the complete [00:40:00] degradation of our nation's soil. And I'm also destroying my gut potentially for the next two weeks. If this is a concentrated source of gluten and creating neural inflammation, it's gonna affect my sleep and my school performance the next day, then they make the decision themselves.

[00:40:14] But that also means I had to take an extra two hours to plant that foundation, but that's, that's how you teach children. That's, that's how you teach with love and presence and sacrifice. And when you approach rulemaking that way, equipping your children with a full understanding of why a rule might be made.

[00:40:30] Or why requirement, or even a suggestion might be made, you're far less likely to get pushed back.

[00:40:35] Carl Lanore: [00:40:35] You just turn the rule into a choice, right? Like, so rules are like, you must do these things. These are my rules. But when you educate the child into where the logic behind. The rule would come from now, it's a choice.

[00:40:49] The child says I'm choosing not to do this because it's not good for me. I like that. But you're right. Parenting takes time. It takes a lot of effort. It takes input. And a lot of people [00:41:00] today, either don't take the time, time, or don't have the time. Uh, and sadly, the children are suffering from that. Uh, as, as, as boys go through puberty, Um, they searched for autonomy and in doing so, they, they literally have to break away from dad being the alpha male.

[00:41:18] You cast a big shadow, any ideas on how this is going to happen as the boys start to become older.

[00:41:26] Ben Greenfield: [00:41:26] Yeah, I expect pushback. I expect that there will be times when they want to, um, really strike out on their own full, full independence. Maybe they don't want to join the family and meditation. Maybe they decide that they're just themselves, you know, whatever.

[00:41:42] They're 14 years old, family dinners are dumb. They don't want to be part of the family dinners, et cetera, et cetera. And look, if I'm going to stand by my principles and I'm going to say, okay, well, when you're, when you're 14, which is when they're going to do this, you're going through a ceremonial, Rite of passage.

[00:41:57] That's going to recognize your [00:42:00] passage into manhood and your responsibility to take care of yourself. Then I have to stand by my principles. And if I've told them that they're a man and they're responsible to take care of themselves, then that means that anything that might be a rule in our house is suddenly something that they're full on, make the decision about whether or not they're going to do, because I can't say you're a man, you got to take care of yourself, but then also say, Oh, but you must also do all these things that are required of you.

[00:42:26] Now, what I can say is you're a man, you take care of yourself and if you decide. That you're going to live here. Yup. You're going to help to pay the bills. You gonna help the work. You're going to help to take care of the family. And as a part of that, that means that if, if they're not going to join with the family dinners, they're going to strike them.

[00:42:46] They're are going to do their own thing. Then are also going to need to provide their own shelter over their heads, you know, get their own jobs. And basically if they decide they're going to be a dependent, they gotta take it all the way and be fully independent. And that's, that's my plan [00:43:00] for when they get to that stage.

[00:43:01] Right. You know, if you, if you want, if you want to step out and you want to be a man, you want to assert your manhood fine, but understand that also me not paying for your food, you paying for your food, me not putting a shot, serve your head, but you are either paying rent for that bedroom that you have or else getting your own apartment, you know?

[00:43:16] And, and so there's a lot of kind of downstream responsibility effects that come. From you recognizing your child as a man. But I think that as long as independence is recognized as full independence and that with independence comes responsibility, then you know, that that's, that's the way that I plan to tackle that when the time comes.

[00:43:33] Carl Lanore: [00:43:33] So, um, I wanna, I want to take our last commercial break. And when we come back, I want to talk about mortality because I didn't recognize my own mortality until I watched my father passed. It was amazing. It was like, it was like a moment. Where I watched him pass. And then I literally looked at him in that bed and I saw my own face.

[00:43:54] I saw my own features. I thought that's going to be me. You know, there's no turning back back once you're [00:44:00] dying, you can't go, Oh, you know, I've changed my mind. And so my mortality became very frontal and center. After my dad passed away. I want to talk to you about your mortality and also. Do you have plans to help the boys understand death better?

[00:44:16] Uh, and, and so that transition isn't as abrupt as it was, let's say for me. Okay. Sure. Stay tuned. We'll be right back with more Ben Greenfield, bit that out right now. This

[00:44:27] Ben Greenfield: [00:44:27] is the superhuman channel.

[00:44:32] Carl Lanore: [00:44:32] Welcome back. We're talking with Ben Greenfield on this premier episode of a fathers and sons, and we have quite a few. A guests lined up for this will probably be, do one of these once a month moving forward. It's a very, very interesting topic to me. And I think it's really a very important topic. It's a very overlooked topic.

[00:44:50] Ben Greenfield: [00:44:50] You know,

[00:44:50] Carl Lanore: [00:44:50] none of us have a handbook on how to parent. And when we look at people who seem to be living outstanding lives, [00:45:00] we have to recognize, uh, men are showing by example. They're children, they're their male children, their boys, uh, that this is what a man is. And the more active men out there understanding that, what they do is teaching their boys.

[00:45:20] What a man is. I think we can really change a lot of the problems that we're having. Uh, in society today, uh, because it's, um, it, it, as we said earlier in the show, it really does start with households, not having strong fathers. We know this now.

[00:45:35] Ben Greenfield: [00:45:35] So,

[00:45:37] Carl Lanore: [00:45:37] uh, when, when I lost my dad, I literally saw myself laying in that bed fading away.

[00:45:43] And I didn't sleep well for a year because I kept waking up in the middle of the night, realizing my God, that's me. I'm not prepared for that. You know, and I actually did a bunch of exercises where I visualize my own death. I would lay in bed and imagine it's happening now. And there's nothing I can do about it.

[00:45:58] And whatever I felt was [00:46:00] unanswered or needed attention to, I fixed. Over the course of the next couple of years. But with that being said, it's, it's really quite, uh, it's devastating. Is there something you think that fathers can do aside from spirituality? Because spirituality does help a lot. Don't get me wrong.

[00:46:17] But aside from spirituality, you think there's anything that a dad can do to help their sons understand their own mortality and, and actually leverage it as opposed to be stifled

[00:46:29] Ben Greenfield: [00:46:29] by it. Yeah, that's a, that's a great question. Um, I would say three things come to mind. Carl. The first is that our overall approach towards death in our society is severely flawed.

[00:46:46] The recent COVID pandemic has a perfect example of that. Death is something to be feared. Death is something to be avoided at all. Costs. Death is dishonorable. Death is dirty. Death is nasty. Death is messy. Let's try to make it so nobody [00:47:00] dies. That's really not the way that the world has worked for most of human history, right?

[00:47:07] Diseases, pandemics, uh, plagues viruses sweep across humanity. They take people out. Herd immunity is created. The population bounces back stronger and better able to deal with that in the future. Do people hi. Yes. Is it sad? Yes. Is it necessary for humans to be able to flourish on this planet? I would argue also, yes, but the problem is when we fear death in the way that we have.

[00:47:37] And we simply hide people away when they're dying, you know, say goodbye to our loved ones through closed plexiglass windows in a hospital, we'll talking to them on Facebook live because God forbid we also get exposed to a aerosolized viral particle that could kill us too. We live in this spirit of fear, not only fear of life, but also.

[00:47:56] Fear of death. And I think we need a more [00:48:00] responsible view of death. And I think that rather than hiding old people away, whether it's via a virus or anything else in hospice and in nursing homes and dishonoring our elders in that way, we must honor our fathers and our mothers and our parents and the older people in society.

[00:48:17] They must live with us, be a part of our homes. We must sacrifice for them in the same way. That we might sacrifice for our youth, give them honorable deaths, allow their deaths to be a celebration, allow their death to be, uh, uh, an occasion that's full of honor. And that involves us, placing them into the ground in a manner that remembers them fondly and the Epic legacy that they have left.

[00:48:43] And if that's the way that we would honor our elders in society, and if that's the way that we would embrace death, then I think that. It would really change the way that we view a lot of issues in our society related to death and healthcare [00:49:00] overall. Secondarily, I think that death is only the beginning and perhaps this is my bias as a man of religion.

[00:49:09] But this belief that we are all a bunch of chunks and flesh and blood floating on a giant rock through space, trying to see who can have the most sex amass, the most cars get the biggest house, make the most money. Then we die game over and we turn into dirt. I think really is not a very magical or hopeful way to live life.

[00:49:32] There's a reason that. You know, Dan Beutner when he studied the blue zones, found greater health, lower blood pressure, greater longevity, decreased risk of most causes of mortality in people who practice the religion or had a belief in a higher power. I think a big reason for that is the immense hope and peace and joy that, that pours into your life all day long.

[00:49:53] And. The fear of death tends to be softened quite a bit by the recognition that death is simply [00:50:00] passage into eternal bliss. And that we are just getting started with life on this planet and that when we die, we're going on to a greater, more glorious place in which our souls and our spirits, which hopefully we've cared for very well with the spiritual disciplines I've described earlier are going to go on and flourish for all eternity.

[00:50:20] And with that belief, that becomes a lot. Less scary. And then finally, you know, in addition to this idea, that death should be an honorable occasion, that we should fear death less as a human race. And addition to the fact that death is simply a passage into glory and eternal bliss, and that that's a very hopeful way to live your life.

[00:50:39] I would also say that I'm not opposed to the use of any compound that allows us to experience the same type of ego death that occurs during death itself. And there's this concept of end of life therapies with plant compounds, such as siliciden or DMT, or [00:51:00] Iowasca this dissolution of ego that can even occur in a responsible set and setting.

[00:51:04] During that Rite of passage into manhood, that I talked about that ability to be able to experience just a little taste of what death actually feels like. And this is something that's even being used in cancer patients. For example, now this whole concept of end of life therapy using plant medicine. I think that that's also something that is.

[00:51:22] One of the reasons that God placed those compounds upon this planet. Not only for things like, you know, microdosing and enhancing cognition or, you know, or going into berserker mode to go into battle, but also being able to experience just a taste of death so that when death approaches we're able to be in a more peaceful bliss life state, simply because we know what that.

[00:51:44] Discomfort of ego disillusion actually feels like. And so I certainly think there's a role that plant medicine would have to play here as well in terms of preparing one to face one's own mortality. I love it.

[00:51:55] Carl Lanore: [00:51:55] I love it. All right. This is the last question I'm going to ask, and I want to thank you for [00:52:00] two things I want, I want to thank you for your honesty and, uh, and, and openness about these topics.

[00:52:06] Number one, but also want to thank you for being the first. Guest on the launch of this new series of fathers and sons. Uh, I really couldn't think of anybody that I wanted to have on the show as the first guest, more than you. So here's the last question. Um, when you're gone, how do you want your boys to finish this sentence?

[00:52:26] My dad

[00:52:27] Ben Greenfield: [00:52:27] was,

[00:52:35] my dad was a man of God. Because again, I think that being a man of God and looking at the very being who created us as the ultimate example of what it means to be a good father, equips us to really step into the role of going beyond boyhood and being a true [00:53:00] leader, a true father, a true King. And there I say something very, very similar to what you might see if you were to watch the movie or read the book Chronicles of Narnia and you see Azlan peaceful warrior empire of the entire world or emperor of the entire world fierce, but loving timed and dependable, but able to, you know, rip your head off with a swipe of the claw, you know, necessary something you fear, but something you also respect.

[00:53:32] And, and that idea of a father, a leader, a King and an Azlan is what I want to be remembered as by my boys. So I would say a man of God because it couches all of that into one phrase in my opinion.

[00:53:50] Carl Lanore: [00:53:50] Beautiful man. That was beautiful. Um, have a great day. When are you going to elk hunting?

[00:53:56] Ben Greenfield: [00:53:56] I'm going to head down to New Mexico.

[00:53:58] I'm actually going to take my boys out. Uh, [00:54:00] After white tail, this coming weekend. And then a couple of days later, I'll hop on a plane and head down to New Mexico, flying to Albuquerque, and I'll be going after a elk for about six days down there with one of my buddies is elk. That'll be his elk

[00:54:12] Carl Lanore: [00:54:12] by lottery only there are you.

[00:54:14] Can you just get a big game tag and hunt elk?

[00:54:17] Ben Greenfield: [00:54:17] I the only way, cause I, I was going to go Idaho and they sold out. So the only way I could get out of state tags, there was, I had to go through an outfitter. So I'm going to be going through an outfitter

[00:54:26] Carl Lanore: [00:54:26] that's even better. Anyway, listen, Ben, thank you for being here today, brother.

[00:54:30] Ben Greenfield: [00:54:30] Thank you so much. Well, I'm honored that you have me, Carl. I love the work that you're doing. I love your new hairdo by the way to COVID

[00:54:38] Carl Lanore: [00:54:38] gray hair.

[00:54:40] Ben Greenfield: [00:54:40] I love it. Hello.

[00:54:42] Carl Lanore: [00:54:42] Alright man. Have a great weekend. Okay.

[00:54:44] Ben Greenfield: [00:54:44] Alright, I'll get you on the flip side, man. Keep up the great work. Okay brother. Alright. Letter.

[00:54:49] Carl Lanore: [00:54:49] All right, we're going to take one quick commercial break.

[00:54:50] I just want to go over some things that we did this week and what we're doing next week. Stay with us. We'll be right back.

[00:55:07] [00:55:00] Ben Greenfield: [00:55:07] check this out. What happened to go? I had an issue with folks. Let me start that again. After getting off benzos four and a half years ago, I had an issue with focus and concentration, and I tried every neurotrophic you could possibly imagine. And none of them worked really. I had a lot of side effects from several of them, but, uh, no focus and concentration, uh, tried cognitive Biotics about two weeks ago and I've been using everyday sense and it's been absolutely amazing.

[00:55:44] Carl Lanore: [00:55:44] That's a long time listener, Dylan Gautreaux. Um, you may have heard his voice, uh, on another commercial because he used the chill pill and that's how he has stopped, uh, using benzodiazepines. If you go to the web [00:56:00] URL, S H R network.biz/better brain, you can save up to 49% off cognitive Biotics from BiOptimizers.

[00:56:09] I don't think you have to hear much more than that. Here's a guy who's used a different types of nootropics. Yeah. And keep in mind different types of nootropics work for different people. I'm experimenting with a stack that we're going to be releasing very shortly. From pure nootropics. And I've what I've learned is depending on what neurochemicals you're deficient in beauty to me may not work for everybody.

[00:56:36] If, if they don't have a deficiency in that particular form of B vitamins, um, you know, Tia cream may not work for everybody. Uh, Dinah mean may not work for everybody. So. You really have to find out in Dylan's case, if cognitive Biotics is working for him, then the cognitive issues, he's having a, from his gut.

[00:56:58] And we know that this happens. We know that [00:57:00] brain fog comes from the gut. I mean, if this, this is, uh, this is well understood. So, but yeah, I mean, if you, if you want to try something to see if it improves your cognition and you do have gut problems, I would recommend that you try cognitive Biotics, SHR network.biz/better brain.

[00:57:17] We have some great shows next week. Dr. Shauna Mara is joining us Monday. Mmm. Okay. John, let me, let me just get my calendar out real quick and look at this. Yeah, he's coming on Monday, which is really exciting because he's coming to talk to us about high carb versus high carb vegan versus keto carnivore, low carb.

[00:57:42] Hi, fat carnivore with dr. Shauna marrow, the different he looks at all of these different diet approaches. And he's got some really interesting information to talk about also next week. Shannon and, uh, Ron Penna will be joining us. Oh, Shannon's going to give us another, [00:58:00] uh, cooking, uh, some cooking tips for cooking foods at home that, uh, don't have high sugar in them.

[00:58:07] Um, because obviously this is something we're all trying to get away from. Uh, she has some tips on how to use a protein powder, cold casein in your food preparation. And it's really interesting. I mean, you know, there's a lot of people I just can't get healthy versions of certain foods. Because there's some quality of that food missing some texture and Shannon has become an expert on taking the average meal to average snack food, the average, uh, dessert and making it low carb sugar-free, but still tastes amazing.

[00:58:44] And so they're going to be coming on next week to talk to us about that. We have lots of great shows all week. Thanks to Elisa proforma. Also, uh, we are looking for people who have been watching the show. Uh, who enjoy the show and have an opinion [00:59:00] about the show to send us their story a little 62nd, no more than three minutes.

[00:59:06] Selfie video on your phone of. What do you like about the show? What do you don't like about the show? Maybe you don't like the way I pronounce certain words say that I'm I'm, I've got I'm big boy. I got thick skin. I hear it all the time, but I would really appreciate it if you've been watching the show for any time and you've gotten anything from the show.

[00:59:24] If you take a minute, point your phone at your face, turn the video on and just let it go. And it doesn't have to be very long. It can be very, very short, no more than three minutes. And then once it's done, you can upload it by going to SHR network.biz/your story. And you can upload the video there. We're going to create a whole library of these videos and we're going to start releasing them.

[00:59:46] And I'd appreciate it. If you've gotten anything from the show helped me out and do this for me. Uh, that's it. Today is Friday. I really don't have anything else to say. I appreciate all of it. That was a fascinating interview. I mean, I, I still [01:00:00] think that that was amazing interview during the commercial break, I texted Alyssa and I said, I'm so glad that I'm doing it in this series.

[01:00:06] I really think it's going to help. In fact, I'm going to send my son the interview. I just did. With Ben, because I may not have had the insights. Uh, I wasn't the enlightened person I am today when I was first raising children. And I would love my son to hear those things. I don't know that. Uh, my son is a wonderful young man.

[01:00:29] I mean, respectful, hard working industrious, intelligent, great sense of humor kind. So he's got all those things. There are some things that I maybe didn't teach him that it's not too late for him to learn, but more importantly, he's going to have children someday. He's probably going to have a boy.

[01:00:46] Hopefully the name Glenora will keep going. He's going to he's the only one of the Lenore's, uh, cause all my other cousins, uh, girls. And so he's the only one that carries this name forward Lenore. So I hope he [01:01:00] has at least a boy. Um, but I would love for him to listen to that. Cause that was fascinating. I mean, you know, you, there's a lot of people who like to break Ben's chops for whatever reason, you know, haters just love to hate doesn't matter what it is, but I have so much respect for Ben.

[01:01:17] No, not just because of who he has become. Uh, but. The this, the center of the family. Yeah. That he is as well. He's got a lovely family and he walks the walk. He doesn't just tell people that this is what you should do it. He does those things. And so you gotta, you gotta love a guy like that. I don't care whether you agree with him or not.

[01:01:41] You gotta love a guy like that because he's a, he, he is authentic and that is something we are missing from society today. Thanks to Instagram and Facebook. And. Touch up photos, apps, and all of a sudden stuff. There is a level of inauthenticity in our population today. It's [01:02:00] standard, it's staggering. Um, but when you meet authentic people like Ben Greenfield, you just can't help, but feel good about them.

[01:02:09] You can't help, but really like them. So that's it for today. Thank you so much for being here for the maiden voyage of this episode. If you know someone. That we should have on the show of fathers and sons, please email your suggestions to on This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.. And please share the show. As I asked you all the time, share all the shows, um, and help more people.

[01:02:32] And I'm going to get home and work on my mission statement. My personal mission, I I'm 62 years old. It's not too late to learn new things. Not too late at all. I see a Monday have a great and safe weekend. [01:03:00]