[00:00:00] Carl Lanore: [00:00:00] got to get you used to the new microphone. I forgot to turn it on. Welcome back to another episode of super human radio. Today is October 26th, 2020. And uh, the fall season is upon us and soon it will be Thanksgiving and, you know, um, I always thought every show saying this is a really important show, but today's show is also a really important show.

[00:00:22] And I know maybe you think that I think every show is important, but these topics that we discuss on Superman radio, uh, are actually shaping and molding health, especially when we talk about nutrition, uh, which is the first hour of today's show. We're going to talk about, uh, the role of a dairy cows. And contributing to greenhouse gases and more importantly, also to some very important elements of, of healthy, uh, wholesome nutrition, uh, then later.

[00:00:52] So we're going to talk about oxytocin. I think I've done more shows about oxytocin over the past decade than any of the podcast out there. [00:01:00] Um, it became evident to me early on that oxytocin. Wasn't just the. You know, connection, hormone, the love hormone, um, from an evolutionary perspective, it makes a lot of sense on the pleiotropic effects of it.

[00:01:12] And we're going to get into some of those today. And then Friday, we have a blockbuster, a pill on oxytocin that nobody saw coming. Uh, maybe I did we'll sing. Of course, before we start any show, we have to thank our title sponsor and that's none other than legendary foods. The website is eat legendary.com.

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[00:02:12] And without further delay, I'll take my ugly mug down and share the screen with dr. Robin white. How are you? Dr. White.

[00:02:21] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [00:02:21] I'm doing, I'm doing well today. Thank you.

[00:02:24] Carl Lanore: [00:02:24] Thanks for being here too. This is an important subject and it's also a subject that takes a lot of courage. I have to say something, um, because the ad hominine, uh, You know, phrases today, you know that how cows are destroying the planet, um, because of cow farts, sorry for my vulgarity, but they're contributing to greenhouse gases and they're bad, and we shouldn't be eating meat and we shouldn't be drinking milk and all these other things that from an evolutionary perspective, actually reshaped who we are, who we became and doing anything counter.

[00:03:00] [00:03:00] Uh, T to that narrative today take takes a lot of guts. It really, really does. So at first I have to commend you, uh, for working on this research, uh, and basically you have, um, been a coauthor on a study that shows that cows really contribute a lot less to dairy cows contribute a lot less to greenhouse gases, but provide hundreds of millions of people with much needed, uh, nutritional, uh, of factors.

[00:03:26] Why this study, what led you to this.

[00:03:30] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [00:03:30] Yeah, it's a great first question to start out, um, this discussion, right? And it actually begins the story exactly. As you're saying, um, I'm trained as an animal scientist and actually as an animal nutritionist and the longer you involve yourself in the field of animal agriculture, the more negative things you start to hear about animal agriculture.

[00:03:52] Um, As a scientist, you know, it's my job to take the types of information that are available to [00:04:00] the public and ask what type of factual basis there is behind that information. And so when we started. Oh 10 or so years ago to see this rhetoric change from just, um, the popular media, expanding into things like government policy documents and, um, to take a major place in shaping the way that we define human nutrient requirements.

[00:04:26] And. Um, it, it started to become a really important question to ask, to take a step back as an animal scientist to say, you know, I'm trained to recognize the benefits of animals, but certainly the broader. Policy community, the broader American public, um, and perhaps even sections of the broader scientific community are starting to see really negative aspects of animal agriculture.

[00:04:50] So where is the truth between these two very different stories? Um, the story that animals are a wasteful extravagance, but they're [00:05:00] depleting our natural resources and negatively impacting, um, our environment. And the story that I learned as an animal scientist, that a ruminant animals in particular, cows and sheep, um, provide this incredible recycling capacity to our food chain, where they take materials that you and I can't consume and convert them into high concentration sources of protein.

[00:05:26] Surely the truth has got to live somewhere in the middle of cows. Aren't exclusively good cows. Aren't exclusively bad. Um, so. Oh three years ago, actually a colleague. And I decided to tackle that question as it applies to us agriculture. And we, um, in 2017, published a study, focusing on what would happen if we removed all of animals from us agriculture.

[00:05:50] Uh, the net result of that study was that we projected, we would have a greater weight of food available. So more total food. But despite [00:06:00] having more total food available, we would end up with more nutrient deficiencies. So additional nutrients that would not be produced in sufficient quantity to meet the needs of the U S population.

[00:06:13] Along with that, the greenhouse gas benefit associated with this really dramatic shift in our, um, agricultural system. Would resulted less than a 3% reduction in total, us greenhouse gas emissions. Um, As a part of, I suppose, in response

[00:06:32] Carl Lanore: [00:06:32] to that, I have to stop you because we just, we just kind of just rolled over something.

[00:06:38] So you're saying if we eliminated all animal, husbandry, chickens, everything, all animal husbandry that all the total net impact on the accumulation of greenhouse gases would be around 3%.

[00:06:54] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [00:06:54] Um, the total emissions produced in the U S correct.

[00:06:57] Carl Lanore: [00:06:57] I mean, it's, you know, like right there and then [00:07:00] we should people with, and sadly, I'm going to say this and.

[00:07:05] With real depth of sadness, but there's not a lot of critical thinkers out there any longer. But I would think that anyone with critical thinking skills would go, wait a minute. You're telling me not just cows, but every animal that we we use today. And as my husband, we've just, we just stop all of that.

[00:07:21] And all we're going to do is make a 3% dent in this huge quote-unquote greenhouse gas problem. Well, that's not the issue. So let's forget about the animals and move on to something more sensible.

[00:07:33] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [00:07:33] Um, yeah, certainly whether you view 3% as a large progression toward our goals or a small progression, um, is very much kind of in the eyes of the holder.

[00:07:44] If you compare that in the context of the types of reductions that we would have been mandated to meet under things like the Paris agreement. Um, I certainly view it as kind of a drop in the bucket, you know, almost 10, a little over 10% of what we would have [00:08:00] attempted to achieve. Um, but, uh, certainly when you weigh that against the potential socioeconomic consequences of disrupting our agricultural system, uh, the potential practical consequences, um, it, it starts to present itself as a less than ideal solution.

[00:08:20] Carl Lanore: [00:08:20] Right. Right. Okay. So this particular study, you looked exclusively now you've looked at. All animals in the past. So we can actually bring some of that information to the discussion as well. But this, this particular study you looked at just dairy cows. Why did you look at just dairy cows? Just curious.

[00:08:38] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [00:08:38] Yeah, so that's, uh, as a part of that 2017 paper. And when we started snooping the data a little bit, we realized that a large portion of that contribution in terms of human edible nutrients is coming from our dairy industry. Um, of course dairy cattle are also ruminants. And so they produce methane [00:09:00] and therefore almost by default are associated with higher contributions to greenhouse gas emissions than perhaps some of our other Monte gastric animal species, pigs, and chickens, which do not produce methane.

[00:09:13] Um, so they became a really interesting case study to evaluate some of the assumptions that we used in that, that 2017 paper. Um, Because in response to that paper, we had some questions from the animal community about how would you go about eliminating animal agriculture? What would that look like? Um, And we had some questions from, uh, you know, other scientists that perhaps want to, um, have historically highlighted some of the negative aspects of animal agriculture, um, questioning how our assumptions in that previous study influenced the results that we came out with.

[00:09:48] Because of course we don't have a system. There are no agricultural systems, uh, recorded in the world. That do not have animals that should point us toward, [00:10:00] um, a finding yeah. In and of itself. Um, but we don't, I have an example of what this might look like to study. So we had to make assumptions in projecting what it would look like.

[00:10:08] And of course, The results of any study are, are partially dependent on the assumptions. So this dairy cattle study allowed us to address some of those, um, additional questions. How did the assumptions affect our results? How might we actually get rid of animal agriculture in a more targeted, um, In a more targeted setting, focusing exclusively on these animals that we think provide a tremendous quantity of human edible nutrients, but also have this, uh, elevated, uh, contribution to environmental.

[00:10:39] Carl Lanore: [00:10:39] No, no. Before we move on, I read a long time ago that, um, pastured cows don't produce the amount of methane. Uh, gas that grain fed and corn fed cows produce. So in theory, if you let cows do what cows were designed to do, [00:11:00] and that is just going graze on grass, this of this whole contribution to greenhouse gases kind of fades away.

[00:11:08] Is there any truth to that or is that a misunderstanding?

[00:11:13] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [00:11:13] That's actually a little bit backwards. Um, so cattle producers. Uh, via the laws of thermodynamics, um, between two and 12% of the energy that they consume as methane, um, energy is neither created nor destroyed it, merely changes forms, right? And so somewhere between two and 12% of the energy they consume will be admitted as methane.

[00:11:34] Uh, cattle that are consuming forage based diets produce more methane, um, as a proportion of their energy intake than those consuming high concentrate

[00:11:46] Carl Lanore: [00:11:46] diets, which would be,

[00:11:47] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [00:11:47] um, consuming grains and soy diets predominantly. Um, there are, there are a few reasons why, um, [00:12:00] Moving animals to a forage only diet may contribute to reducing greenhouse gas emissions, particularly in the case of dairy cattle in the U S.

[00:12:12] And that is mostly because we would diminish their production level. So we feed dairy cattle, um, uh, a ration that's roughly 60% forage. So grasses and Hayes and silages, um, That is in part to try and elevate their feed efficiency, meaning to produce more milk per unit of feed input. If we allowed them to exclusively consume a forage based ration, they wouldn't produce as much milk and they would have a lower feed efficiency.

[00:12:47] Um, they may also have a lower net methane emissions. But it's not really a fair comparison because you're not comparing them on the same production line. Right. So you'd have the concurrent, um, kind of negative [00:13:00] benefit of, uh, of reducing the total quantity of milk available for human consumption.

[00:13:05] Carl Lanore: [00:13:05] Okay.

[00:13:06] Okay. All right. So you, you looked at three different ways to assess the potential impact, uh, on either reducing or eliminating. Dairy cows in general. Talk about those first.

[00:13:22] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [00:13:22] Yeah. So the, like I said, we had some questions from our fellow animal scientists about, you know, have people actually thought about how we would get rid of animal agriculture, because most people, I think if you took a survey and you asked, you know, what do you think of when you think of getting rid of animal agriculture, they would think of.

[00:13:41] Retiring cows out to a pasture, much like the lovely background image you have here, um, and allowing them to sort of do their thing as how

[00:13:50] Carl Lanore: [00:13:50] and just pass away. Right? Yeah,

[00:13:52] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [00:13:52] exactly. Um, The interesting aspect of that is that they would no longer be a livestock [00:14:00] species. They would actually be a feral population.

[00:14:03] And so you would have to look at the challenges associated with managing that population much. Like we look at issues like the federal horses in the us or our urban populations of wildlife.

[00:14:12] Carl Lanore: [00:14:12] Yeah, because farmers would, farmers would summarily do is just start killing their cows because if they're not generating money with them and they're, and they're tying up land and water, now that the farmer has become a zoo with no income.

[00:14:25] And so they would have to start killing all their cows. That's what they would end up doing. And then we'd have, uh, you know, a group, uh, that would say, Oh, this is so unfair to do to cows.

[00:14:35] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [00:14:35] Yeah. So, so we take, uh, one of our, our retirements scenario. That's what we call it kind of takes. Uh, the lens of maybe past that social unrest, um, in the transition period and assumes they get to some, some stable state where we treat cows as a feral population.

[00:14:54] Um, so I live in the suburban Southwestern, Virginia. I have a herd of about 25 deer [00:15:00] that come through my yard every night. Uh, anybody in a similar situation could probably imagine maybe 15 deer and 10 cows coming through there.

[00:15:10] Carl Lanore: [00:15:10] Yeah.

[00:15:11] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [00:15:11] So how we would manage that again comes to, you know, some very interesting socio-economic questions.

[00:15:17] Would we be hunting cattle? Would we be working on some different population control mechanisms like we have with feral horses? Either way. Um, there's a pretty substantial expense associated with how you're going to maintain animals at a target population like that. Right? So that was one scenario. And we tried to make that scenario as realistic as possible.

[00:15:41] Given what we thought the average American consumer would imagine when we say we're going to get rid of cows, um, the scenario kind of on the opposite end of that is the economically realistic scenario. So us consumers say that they're no longer going to consume dairy products. [00:16:00] Uh, there is a tremendous opportunity for international export and for processing of dairy products.

[00:16:05] And so us producers are going to continue to produce milk under business as usual scenario and all of those nutrients, no longer go to the U S um, which is again, probably the economically realistic way that this would occur. Um,

[00:16:23] Carl Lanore: [00:16:23] but, but it would have been, it would have no impact on greenhouse gases because basically what you're saying is it's going to be business as usual, just the targeted consumer changes.

[00:16:31] That's it?

[00:16:32] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [00:16:32] Exactly. Yep. Um, so we consider those to be kind of two opposite ends of the spectrum. And then we have, um, a mid range scenario, which would represent some sort of policy intervention, um, where we slaughter all of the animals. Um, so we tell our dairy producers, baby, we're gonna pay you off. You know, maybe, maybe there's going to be some incentive to do this, but we're going to go ahead and slaughter [00:17:00] all of the dairy cows in the U S that's going to contribute a onetime food source.

[00:17:06] And again, we're going to evaluate kind of the, the post-apocalyptic, if you will. Okay. Result of that. Right. We no longer have dairy cows, that land that was previously used to how has them can be used for other things. The land previously used to feed them can be used for other things. Um, and those nutrients are no longer

[00:17:26] Carl Lanore: [00:17:26] there.

[00:17:26] No, I wanna, I wanna speak to that for a second. Right? So Mo the majority of Americans are under the assumption that cows are. Grazing on what is considered arable land land. That would be, Oh, well, if the cows aren't using, we'll just, we'll just plant the crops of alfalfa and CA no, the large majority of land in the United States is not eligible for growing crops because it's on Hills.

[00:17:53] You know, it's, it's in the woods, cows walk in uphills and grays. They walk into the [00:18:00] woods and grace, so. I don't want people to go well, we use that land for something else. We, we we'd grow our soybeans on it. No, if you could grow soybeans on it, they'd be growing soybeans on it. Now cows end up on land that nobody wants.

[00:18:16] And that's the large majority of the available land in the United States. That's used for grazing. And most of that land has. Little puddles of water and streams and ponds that cows literally walk into to cool off in the summertime and drink from they're not drinking the water, you and I would be drinking.

[00:18:37] I mean, there are occasions where there's drought and farmers have to bring water in to give cows and troughs, but by and large cows drink the water that they find on the land. So they're not drinking our water. They're not stealing the land that we would be growing stuff on. So this idea that, well, if we got rid of cows, we'd find other things to do with that land.

[00:18:58] Well, unless you're talking about Hill [00:19:00] climbing and a dune buggy, there's nothing you're going to do with that land. That cows haven't already done.

[00:19:05] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [00:19:05] You're not wrong. Um, the vast majority of cattle grazing in the U S is done on land. That's not suitable for other purposes and anybody that questions that should just think about, um, the economics of it.

[00:19:19] If it was profitable to produce something like soybeans on the land that we currently produce catalogs, we would be doing that instead because it's a lot more profitable than producing cattle and it's a lot less work. Um, So, yes, there are some, there's a very small portion of cattle grazing that's done on land that can be used for, um, or it can be cultivated.

[00:19:47] Um, we look at only that portion, right? If we repurposed that specific portion for human food production, what could we do with it? Um, the other portion of land that we talk [00:20:00] about. Is the grain that's currently going for dairy

[00:20:04] Carl Lanore: [00:20:04] consumption now.

[00:20:06] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [00:20:06] Yeah. So it's, it's important to remember that grain is going for dairy cattle consumption, oftentimes because it's not suitable for human consumption or because, um, it's a by-product after we've processed things for human consumption.

[00:20:21] Um, nevertheless, there is a small portion of a dairy cows diet that is directly competitive with humans, and we could use that land for other purposes. So when we talk about repurposing land, those are the types of land resources we're talking about. It's a great thing to point out to the lay reader, that those are very small tracks of land for the con of the U S agricultural system.

[00:20:44] Carl Lanore: [00:20:44] Right? Right. So. The downstream effects now let's, I mean, I remember reading an article by someone who was actually on the show that showed that grazing cows chew, chomping at the grass actually has an ability to recycle carbon dioxide [00:21:00] and that the actual actions of grazing contribute benefits to the ecological system is, is that true?

[00:21:08] In fact,

[00:21:10] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [00:21:10] Yeah. Um, it really very much depends on the grazing management. And we would like to say that in the U S the vast majority of our farmers are practicing good stewardship practices. Um, we're not overgrazing lands, we're not creating large bear areas in our, um, forage production systems. Um, we're promoting grass growth.

[00:21:31] We're promoting soil health. Um, and collectively, yes, that can lead to enhanced carbon sequestration in the soil and improved, uh, microbial capacity, all sorts of benefits.

[00:21:45] Carl Lanore: [00:21:45] Okay. All right. So sorry I,

[00:21:49] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [00:21:49] to the rule, right? I mean, it's kind of like, you know, most of us have held a minimum wage job at some point, and not all the people that you work with or are glorious.

[00:22:00] [00:21:59] Right. There's always that one employee that just can't do anything right. Um, not everybody's perfect, but the vast majority of our producers are, are very much committed to, um, maximizing the efficiency of their grazing processes and making sure that they are doing so in a responsible manner.

[00:22:18] Carl Lanore: [00:22:18] So in the three scenarios, you looked at the, the, uh, export dairy scenario really didn't change anything because it's business as usual.

[00:22:27] We're just not consuming the end product here in the United States. Right?

[00:22:31] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [00:22:31] Correct.

[00:22:32] Carl Lanore: [00:22:32] But what about the retirement, uh, approach to retiring cows? And especially if there's some drastic approach to help retire them faster, like, you know, mass, uh, uh euthanization or, you know, something like that, where we just get rid of them all in one swipe, how much of the, uh, greenhouse gas footprint is reduced from a severe action like that?

[00:23:00] [00:23:00] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [00:23:00] Yeah. So in the different scenarios that we evaluate the net impact on total us greenhouse gas emissions, um, is between a half a percent and a percent reduction.

[00:23:12] Carl Lanore: [00:23:12] That's shocking. So all this, all this noise we hear constantly, uh, about. How selfish we are to want cows and to raise cows because they are destroying the planet.

[00:23:25] I mean, people actually say that they say cows are destroying the planet. It's not only incorrect, but it's, it's, it's a gross lie, uh, at a very, very, very unfair lie to say that if we got rid of all the cows tomorrow, all these greenhouse gases would just disappear because the major contributors to greenhouse gases and correct me if I'm wrong.

[00:23:48] They're really, uh, um, industrialization factories and, and, and, and, and the consumption of power and all these other things that we don't want to give up.

[00:24:00] [00:24:00] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [00:24:00] Yeah. So I should say two things on that. Um, the first is, is exactly what you're, you're pointing out in the us. Um, we have different sources of, of emissions that are quantitatively more important than agriculture.

[00:24:14] And those are predominantly energy manufacturing and transportation. Um, that's not the case everywhere. And so part of where this misunderstanding comes from is the application of global data. Two local scenarios. So we look at, um, for example, data that includes large herds of unproductive animals in Southeast Asia and Africa.

[00:24:38] Um, and. That contributes to these global statistics that we then apply to the U S agricultural system, where we have tremendously efficient herds that have been genetically selected for centuries at this point, um, for the express purpose of efficiently producing food for humans. Um, so, so part of [00:25:00] this, I think the misunderstanding.

[00:25:02] Is that inappropriate application of information. We take global statistics and we apply them locally as if they're applicable in there. They're really not. The other thing that, um, that I think really confuses people is the discussion of, uh, footprints. So carbon footprints, water footprints. Um, if you look at the carbon footprint of a beef, as an example, we're talking about dairy, but if we look at beef, Um, in the U S it's, it's probably 16 to 18 kilos of CO2 per kilo of beef.

[00:25:35] If you compare that to a kilo of corn, uh, that's less than one kilo of CO2 per kilo of corn. So if you just look at those two numbers, it's, it's easy to understand how somebody who again, is not thinking critically, um, would say, Oh my gosh, moving away from this high intensity product is going to be an environmental benefit.

[00:25:58] What we don't consider in those [00:26:00] types of footprint calculations is why we consume those products. Um, so as humans, we consume beef for very different nutritional reasons than we would consume a kilo of corn. And to say that they're equivalent just because they weigh the same is a complete fallacy. Um, similarly, right?

[00:26:18] The quantity of. Corn as an example produced in this country, compared to the cold quantity of beef is also something that we need to consider when we're thinking about the national or perhaps the international implications of our actions. Right. Um, we produce a tremendous amount of cereal grains in this country and they go for a wide variety of purposes, not just human consumption.

[00:26:42] Um,

[00:26:43] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [00:26:43] so

[00:26:44] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [00:26:44] the, the system is a lot bigger than just, um, diminishing it down to these. Simple kinds of comparisons, but it's an easy, easy trap to fall into. So look at numbers like a carbon footprint and make assumptions about how your eating patterns may [00:27:00] influence national level greenhouse gas emissions, because humans are reductionist.

[00:27:05] We like simple numbers and it's easy to digest them. And that's the danger of, of that kind of reductionist.

[00:27:13] Carl Lanore: [00:27:13] We're going to talk about this on the other side of the break, we're going to take a break and then we're going to come back and we're going to compare nutritional value. Of dairy. And if you feel, I know you've done research on beef cattle as well, and start to look at this from, you know, uh, there's an intrinsic value and an extrinsic value to every action.

[00:27:31] And I want to talk about that. When we come back from the break, stay tuned, you're listening to a watching super Yuma radio be right back superheroes. This is this superhuman chapel.

[00:27:48] Welcome back to superhuman radio. We're talking with dr. Robin white from Virginia tech, and we're talking about. The impact that eliminating dairy [00:28:00] cows would have on the carbon footprint? Well, I guess the greenhouse gases, I should say, and it's really negligible. It's nothing, but let's talk about the other side of the coin now, dr.

[00:28:10] White, um, from the nutrient standpoint, what do we lose? And is it more important than what we gain and the elimination of 0.7%, uh, greenhouse gases.

[00:28:26] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [00:28:26] Yeah. So dairy cattle currently, uh, contribute a tremendous amount of the protein and amino acids available for human consumption. Um, from our agricultural system in the U S they're also, um, providing a really important source of some of our, uh, essential fatty acids, vitamins and minerals.

[00:28:46] Um, When we remove dairy puddle, um, in any of these scenarios, we'd see reductions in some critically important nutrients. Um, interestingly, I'll talk [00:29:00] about amino acids for a little bit. Uh, we actually see increases in the availability of amino acids from the agricultural system. If we shift away from dairy cattle production,

[00:29:11] Carl Lanore: [00:29:11] wait a minute, wait a minute.

[00:29:11] I have to, I have to stop you there. So we know that there. There are critical amino acids that are not found in plant-based proteins, especially things like leucine. Um, and while a lot of people will argue that, um, there are some amino acids that could cause advanced aging. We know that that's when they're out of balance.

[00:29:36] So what amino acids are we talking about that we would have a greater availability? Is, is there more leucine and plant-based proteins is a more glutamine and plant-based proteins and are they, and are they, extractable another discussion that came out of Don Lyman's lab up in a university of Illinois was plant-based proteins.

[00:29:56] Aren't always bioavailable taking the case of soy, [00:30:00] uh, the antitrypsin inhibitors, uh, and soy protein. Really isn't. Isn't very available. And that's why people get a lot of gas from eating soy protein. Speak about that. The amino acids, per se.

[00:30:11] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [00:30:11] Yeah. So, and you're going exactly where I wanted to with this discussion.

[00:30:15] Um, one of the downfalls of this kind of national level evaluation is that we don't look at how individual food get combined to create diet. So, yes, we would have, you know, actually about double the amount of losing as an example, um, produced in a system without dairy cattle, as we do in our current production system.

[00:30:38] But the bioavailability of at is really in question and then the concentration. Of amino acids in general, in the foods that would be available are also something that we should really focus on. So one of the benefits of dairy products is actually the concentration of nutrients relative to other [00:31:00] nutrients.

[00:31:00] So dairy products are fairly low energy source of amino acids, and they also have high concentrations of essential fatty acids, vitamins and minerals. So by consuming servings of dairy on a daily basis, you're making marginal and incremental progress toward each of those required nutrient categories. Um, whereas if we try to meet our amino acid requirements from some of the things that we feed dairy cattle, like cereal grains, there may be sufficient quantities of amino acid available.

[00:31:35] But if you and I balanced a diet to meet our immuno acid requirements, Using cereal grains, we would dramatically exceed our energy requirements, which is a big challenge, right? Because that's exceeding energy requirements tends to be the nutritional focus for energy. Whereas meeting requirements tends to be the nutritional focus for most of our important nutrients like amino acids, vitamins minerals.

[00:31:58] Okay. [00:32:00] Um, so yes, dairy dairy products provide a really high concentration sources and well balanced versus, um, we talk about complete proteins. Um, most of our animal products fall into that category. They contain our 10 essentials, uh, that are not always present in adequate quantities in plant proteins.

[00:32:21] Um, so again, it's that relative balance of each of those amino acids that make, um, dairy products, such a reliable source of high quality proteins.

[00:32:31] Carl Lanore: [00:32:31] So there's another aspect of this discussion that I'd like to inject no pun intended at this point in time. And that is the role of milk in general. Um, milk milk is the only thing made by nature to be sustenance for a given species and bovine milk.

[00:32:50] And human milk are very, very close. Uh, bovine milk is probably stronger, has a lot more of the good things that human breast [00:33:00] milk has, but there's something else that always misses this, this discussion milk. Has transporter and chaperone proteins whose sole job is to take these things that are good for us and carry them into the bloodstream go right through.

[00:33:19] So we know that, uh, amino acids in a free form environment are, are, are wreak the bloodstream through the lining of the stomach. They don't have to go through the whole digestive process. Charlie and I can't speak to pasteurized milk. I've been a raw milk drinker for almost 20 years now. I only drink it.

[00:33:39] Seasonally cows. Don't like to give milk in the winter. Um, it's a great energy expenditure. So I only drink it a few months out of the year, but we know that in raw unpasteurized milk and perhaps in pasteurized milk, these transporter [00:34:00] proteins and chaperone proteins remain intact in the milk. Making the milk do magical things.

[00:34:07] Would you speak to that? Am I too far out, off center now? Or what do you think.

[00:34:12] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [00:34:12] Um, I'm just gonna go ahead and say that, um, particularly the discussion of pasteurized versus unpasteurized milk, there would be outside my area

[00:34:21] Carl Lanore: [00:34:21] of expertise.

[00:34:22] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [00:34:22] Um, I can talk about the relative importance of the different nutrients and how they balance to, uh, human requirements, but probably not much more than that.

[00:34:32] I'm sorry.

[00:34:33] Carl Lanore: [00:34:33] Okay. That's fine. So, uh, getting back to this discussion, uh, when we look at the elimination of dairy cows completely. For the impact on greenhouse gases. And then we look downstream at the literal elimination of nutrients from the available diet, which one wins.

[00:34:56] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [00:34:56] Isn't that a good question. Um, and this is one of those [00:35:00] really important associated economic challenges that I think we need to agree upon how we're going to address as a society.

[00:35:08] Um, we take the standpoint in most of our studies of framing, these discussions around meeting our domestic populations, nutrient requirements as a necessity. Um, that's the major goal of the, uh, the agricultural system is to provide sufficient sustainment for the humans in this country. Um, There is of course a tremendous international exchange of nutrients through agricultural imports and exports.

[00:35:40] Um, and that international exchange is something that's truly fascinating and how the U S agricultural system works. And so that is very complex. Um, but nevertheless, um, it's the primary job of our agricultural system to provide sufficient food for, uh, for the people [00:36:00] of this country. Um, it's also the primary job of the agricultural system to do that in a manner that doesn't impede our ability to continue that work for future generations.

[00:36:13] Um, so you could say that they're really not, um, they're not separate goals. We really need to achieve both of them. We need to be producing, uh, food in a sustainable manner and we need to be producing sufficient quantities of it. Um, what we've been doing in the last, over the last several decades is enhancing the efficiency of our production system.

[00:36:39] And that allows us to produce more food with fewer animals, um, or with less land. And as a result of that, we've dramatically reduced the environmental footprint of the food that we are producing. Right? So as our population has grown, we're able to more adequately meet the needs of that population. Um, [00:37:00] with a relatively lower carbon emissions.

[00:37:04] Um, we're, we're definitely not out of the woods yet. If you look at the net quantity of greenhouse gas emissions admitted, um, there's been an increase and that increases commensurate with increase in human populations. So as the U S population is projected to level off and it it's already quite, quite well on its way on that curve.

[00:37:24] Um, As it, it reaches a more moderate growth rate or zero growth rate. Um, it's going to be the job of the objective of the agricultural system to continue to produce sufficient quantities of food, to meet the requirement of that population while continuing to reduce the greenhouse gas emissions associated with that production.

[00:37:44] Carl Lanore: [00:37:44] Is there anything well, but I, you know, what could we do cows are producing such a small minute amount. Of the contribution to greenhouse gases, it's almost seems stupid to be discussing well, what can we do with cows to make them [00:38:00] produce less when we should be looking at the real big, heavy lifters in the discussion and thinking about how we can make those produce less and leave cows alone.

[00:38:10] But I almost feel like the whole discussion about cows is a distraction. Um, a distraction from what's really going on. And, and, and because cows, as you point out in your study, so perfectly are producing such a small amount of con contributing factors to greenhouse gases. That it almost it's anybody with any common sense would say, well, why are we talking about cows?

[00:38:37] That seems so ridiculous. It's like, they're not, they're not contributing to greenhouse gases to the extent that the media. And the pundents and the people who will have this agenda would have you believe. So. I mean, what, I mean, just, I kind of feel like, can we just get past this, the cow I did a blog post and we're going to talk about when we come out on the next break.

[00:38:57] Cause I want to talk about beef when we come back, [00:39:00] because I know you have some research, uh, we're talking about dairy cows right now and, uh, and obviously the real. Effort to get rid of cows as those who, who say eating meat is bad and it's destroying our planet and all that sort of stuff. And there's nothing further from the truth about that as well.

[00:39:16] But I want to take a break. And when we come back, I want you to tell me, does any of this research that you've done in the past show that beef cattle are just as innocuous when it comes to producing greenhouse gases? Okay. Alright. Alright, so sit tight. We'll be right back and we'll get to that topic.

[00:39:35] When we come back later in the show, we're going to be talking about oxytocin. You don't want to miss that. Yes. Carl is doing another interview about oxytocin. My, my favorite peptide hormones. They took Kendall doing reps with the weight of the world.

[00:39:55] welcome back now. We're going to talk a little bit about beef [00:40:00] cows. So you've researched this area as well. Right. And previous studies. Correct. So tell me what you learned. Is it a different scenario than dairy cows? Are beef cattle, uh, appropriately targeted for contributing to global warming?

[00:40:18] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [00:40:18] Yeah. So I think that the target on beef cattle largely revolves around what we talked about earlier with the differences in carbon footprinting or water footprinting between, um, Alternative foods, regardless of what those may be and ruminant animal products, um, dairy are a little bit exempt from that because the carbon footprint of milk is actually much closer to the carbon footprint of most plant products.

[00:40:44] So a lot of the focus on beef cattle is it's very likely, I would imagine due to the difference is in carbon footprint. Um, w we have, uh, 2019, I think 2019 paper. Um, doing a similar kind of [00:41:00] evaluation for, for beef cattle and how they fit into a sustainable food production system in the United States, um, beef provides a different suite of nutrients from dairy products, but a lot of the same kinds of, um, kinds of focus, protein, amino acids to have a complete protein.

[00:41:19] So the very similar amino acid profile. Um, Hemi iron,

[00:41:24] Carl Lanore: [00:41:24] you have Hemi very valuable. Yeah.

[00:41:29] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [00:41:29] In terms of our, um, our minerals, we would have iron zinc and selenium, which are three really critically important ones. And the bioavailability and beef is significantly higher than many other States.

[00:41:39] Carl Lanore: [00:41:39] And I, I would, I would challenge the USDA to do this.

[00:41:43] The USDA should look at beef and test to the availability and presence of every vitamin and mineral. Because I have already had someone do this. There is vitamin C in beef, but it's not listed anywhere on the label and it makes perfect sense. Cows [00:42:00] actually make their own vitamin C they're. One of the we and hamsters are the only no Guinea pigs.

[00:42:06] Humans and Guinea pigs are the only species on the planet that don't manufacture their own vitamin C. There's a lot of theories. Why it is. Did it get, uh, pressed, pushed out from evolutionary pressure, but cows make their own, can see there's vitamin C in beef. If the USDA. We'd go back and categorize and identify every vitamin and mineral and beef.

[00:42:28] We would find out that it is the only true superfood. The only food you could eat every day, every meal for the rest of your life. And not end up with a nutrient deficiency. The Chinese Navy knew that thousands of years ago when they would bring in cows on raising them, milking them and processing them and feeding everybody that.

[00:42:51] And no one got scurvy.

[00:42:54] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [00:42:54] Yeah. So the, to defend the USDA, they actually do have an online database that [00:43:00] contains, um, all measured nutrient concentrations on all different foods. Um, and the FDA's regulation of food labeling, I think is where, where your challenge is best highlighted that, um, the regulations around food labeling in the U S are.

[00:43:16] Actually not always well suited to helping the average consumer suss out what is a good source of nutrients. Um, I think that they, they really make an effort to highlight some of the important things like the changes in, in food labeling that have occurred to highlight calorie counts. Um, I, I would hope are going to have an impact on helping people understand, um, the energy implications of the foods that they fit.

[00:43:42] But certainly the minimum requirements on the types of nutrients that must be reported on food labels mean that we only assume, or we assume that those are the only nutrients provided by the food. When in fact, most foods do have substantially more than what's reported on the label. [00:44:00] Um, it just may be in smaller concentrations.

[00:44:02] So that's where they get to this effort to try and label things as a good source or an excellent source of a particular nutrient. And, um, As we we've talked a little bit about with dairy, right? That's, that's a limited view because it only looks at one thing. Um, and if you're doing something like, uh, as an example, while consuming beef to meet your protein requirement, you probably also want to know how that effort, um, is toward other objectives, like meeting your daily requirements for things like vitamin B12 and your Omega six and Omega three fatty acids.

[00:44:37] Um, We don't capture that multifaceted aspect of, of nutrient profiles. Well, within our current food labeling schemes, right. I don't know what the answer to that is. Um, other than kind of self-education about what nutrients are available in your foods, because it is free online information, but that requires people to have the time and the wherewithal to go in and.

[00:45:00] [00:45:00] Mine bad information, which is quite tedious and unlikely to be a realistic solution.

[00:45:05] Carl Lanore: [00:45:05] If the listeners go to my Facebook page, I just republished this article on Facebook, or if you just Google superhuman radio, why soy is unsustainable? You'll find the blog I did back in 2016 or 17 because I kept hearing this, um, the saying amongst plant-based people that it takes.

[00:45:27] Some ridiculous amount of water to produce just three ounces of beef. And I was like, everybody else, I just assumed it was right. And then I thought, you know, I'm going to look into this. And I went, I have all the sources listed. I went to universities that specialized in animal husbandry. I went to organizations that specialize in, in big ag and I compared an acre of soy with one cow.

[00:45:57] And all the calculations in there, you know, what's [00:46:00] really edible on the cow, all that stuff. This is just the summary. What I found out serving of beef provides 578 K cows while three ounce serving of soybeans three 82. So just from an energy standpoint, beef wins. When you factor in. That it requires you're ready for this four times as much water to be, to, to produce that serving of soybeans, soybeans loses hands down.

[00:46:25] The reality is because cows graze and they drink water that is just standing water on, on, on various areas of land. You realize that. In order to meet the requirement. This I even took into account the number of rain days, the average number of rain days in a growing season. I mean, if you read this article, you, what you'll find out is that if you think critically and really look for the answers to these individual questions and piece them together, you find out it takes way more water to grow soy than it does to [00:47:00] raise.

[00:47:00] Beef cattle and, and, and, you know, no one's going to pick this article up and promote it because it doesn't fit the agenda, but go, go Google superhuman, radio. Why soy is unsustainable. Read the blog post look at, I mean, Every source, every university study that I found answers to these different questions.

[00:47:20] Every organization is right there where I got the information, read this, and then think to yourself. Wow. Like beef is actually better for you. Forget about the very various nutrients vitamins. Quality of protein, things that you can't get, like, like Hemi, iron and B12 from plant sources. When you factor all that in you go, Oh my God, you know, I should be eating more beef.

[00:47:43] Everybody who's read. This guy goes to be, I guess they should be eating more beef. It's really kind of,

[00:47:50] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [00:47:50] yeah. If I can speak on the water footprint thing just very quickly. Um, that also goes back to the same types of misconceptions about what a carbon or a water [00:48:00] footprint needs. When we evaluate those, those types of footprints, we evaluate all of the inputs, the production system.

[00:48:07] So in the case of beef, we look at everything from the inputs to the cropping system, through the feedlot farm gate. So a 90 plus in most studies is about 98% of the water footprint published. For beef cattle is associated with irrigation. Um, so that that's just water. That's going to crop production and it's the same kind of fallacy is what we, what about earlier, if you got rid of these cattle, you'd still be using that land for productive purposes.

[00:48:36] You'd still be irrigating on it. And so it's not necessarily a, a fair way to do a comparison of the true water use associated with the different products to simply rely on, on footprints. Yeah, and that's, that's above and beyond the issue that, that you've highlighted, which is the difference between blue water, which is what we consume and green and gray water, uh, [00:49:00] which are subsurface and surface, um, sources,

[00:49:03] Carl Lanore: [00:49:03] uh, dr.

[00:49:04] White. I want to thank you so much for publishing this study, and I hope that it gets picked up by more, uh, in the mainstream because it's time for the truth to get out there. It's time for people to understand the realities. Of what they're being told. Uh, it, beef is not destroying the planet. There's a lot of things destroying the planet.

[00:49:25] Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that it's not a, uh, there, there aren't things that we need to address, but cows isn't one of them. We need to stop this nonsense. This narrative is nonsense. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Sure,

[00:49:37] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [00:49:37] absolutely.

[00:49:39] Carl Lanore: [00:49:39] Take care. We're going to take one quick commercial break.

[00:49:42] And when we come back, we're going to talk about oxytocin. Uh, a favorite protein peptide of mine. And I actually have a huge show this Friday on oxytocin also. Uh, I've been talking about oxytocin ever since I discovered about eight or nine years ago, [00:50:00] that it caused changes in the microbiome that are beneficial to aging.

[00:50:04] It all started there. Stay tuned. We'll be right back with more super human radio.

[00:50:12] welcome back to superhuman radio, having a little technical difficulty with the, uh, the spots and the music. Uh, so we're rolling right into the next interview. And the next interview is with dr. Rita Cacia men and Gotti daughter Nellis. Did I say that right? Close close enough, close enough. Right. Welcome to the show.

[00:50:32] Welcome to the show. So your discussion today, we're going to talk about a study that you recently published on the effects of oxytocin and osteoporosis. Why this study, what research preceded this, that this seemed to be the next logical step.

[00:50:51] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [00:50:51] Okay. Eh,

[00:50:56] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [00:50:56] it's pleaser to talk about my is [00:51:00] I is the, the morning metabolism

[00:51:04] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [00:51:04] in

[00:51:05] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [00:51:05] Mayo in bud off AIDS in and about our supporters.

[00:51:14] And eh, oxitocin is very interesting because the cells bond  receptor for oxytocin. So oxytocin is

[00:51:31] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [00:51:31] tight,

[00:51:32] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [00:51:32] both sets in a, any cells we've cell. If bond cells. At

[00:51:41] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [00:51:41] cells

[00:51:42] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [00:51:42] that, eh, exome in formation and , and this, eh, familial duty, the eh, [00:52:00] 18, it is necessary to take control of, eh, Working this sales har for me soon, gone and grease Z have source deep bond.

[00:52:24] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [00:52:24] Okay.

[00:52:25] Carl Lanore: [00:52:25] Okay. So the, uh, oxytocin has always been thought to be a hormone related to breast feeding and birth and orgasm. So it's called the. Connection human connection hormone, but we're learning more about oxytocin now that it actually has some anabolic effects. And in the case of, of, uh, of, uh, osteoporosis in post-menopausal women.

[00:52:53] So what was the indicator to you and your group that it [00:53:00] did this? Why, why would you even look at it for osteoporosis? Given that it's always been thought to be associated with with childbirth and breastfeeding.

[00:53:12] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [00:53:12] Okay. And in the beginning on 2002, the paper interesting about oxytocin and bond metabolism, eh, but eh,  on your mouth.

[00:53:34] Uh, M in my lab, we started with 18 and B U R a T E P male.

[00:53:52] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [00:53:52] Right.

[00:53:52] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [00:53:52] They oxytocin is

[00:53:59] right. [00:54:00] Okay. But in the bond sale. Oh, so,

[00:54:05] Carl Lanore: [00:54:05] so it's, so it's produced, it's produced in the bone cells as well.

[00:54:10] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [00:54:10] Inborn sell. Awesome.

[00:54:12] Carl Lanore: [00:54:12] Yes.

[00:54:13] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [00:54:13] Why? Once the exon involve themselves,

[00:54:18] Carl Lanore: [00:54:18] right?

[00:54:20] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [00:54:20] When the excellent inbound sales,

[00:54:24] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [00:54:24] eh,

[00:54:26] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [00:54:26] E my lab team. Eh, we use using the wrecked with in periods of very minimal pounds, but in rats or in female, rats disputes is called Barry Astro powers.

[00:54:51] You spills is like Barry menopause.

[00:54:55] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [00:54:55] Because

[00:54:56] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [00:54:56] the estrogen, their heart month, [00:55:00] it is crazy. Jordan's the life does RET

[00:55:07] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [00:55:07] S my wife off

[00:55:09] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [00:55:09] women and this

[00:55:13] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [00:55:13] sell

[00:55:13] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [00:55:13] bonds. It presented very alterations. In favor off ramp SARSSM bond. And eh, this results is depressed GB off bond, right.

[00:55:34] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [00:55:34] And increase it

[00:55:40] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [00:55:40] at it with emphasis on the bond side of the spine rise reaps, eh, This cell barn, we've her sector, occipital sin, right. And the, the cell bomb [00:56:00] produce oxytocin and this oxytosin action in cell bar. Okay.

[00:56:11] Carl Lanore: [00:56:11] Okay.

[00:56:13] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [00:56:13] Well,

[00:56:14] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [00:56:14] eh, I using the substance, that's binding to the receptors for oxytocin, the substance blocks, the action of oxytocin

[00:56:33] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [00:56:33] in

[00:56:33] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [00:56:33] this cell, an increase it, they have SOPs you, eh, sell bond.

[00:56:42] Carl Lanore: [00:56:42] So to summarize the, in the ovarian optimized female rat, you create the environment of peri-menopause by removing estrogen. Correct. And then you, you [00:57:00] administered oxytocin to these moments and when you administered the oxytocin, there were lots of reactions in the bone that indicated. That the bone mineralization that we normally associate osteopenia and osteoporosis with post-menopause those metabolites, those markers reversed in the presence of the oxytocin that was giving to the rodents.

[00:57:28] Correct. Okay. So what kind of dose you only gave the, the rodents two injections of oxytocin and you look, you look 35 days out, which means that just those two injections had a profound effect trajectory further out. What was the dose of oxytocin that you gave to the rodents?

[00:57:52] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [00:57:52] Okay. It's right. Eh, to inject.

[00:57:58] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [00:57:58] Oxytocin. [00:58:00] And there's five

[00:58:02] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [00:58:02] days after this

[00:58:04] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [00:58:04] ejector,

[00:58:06] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [00:58:06] we

[00:58:10] bond

[00:58:12] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [00:58:12] em, because

[00:58:15] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [00:58:15] the hymn will delay soon. Cycle four is structured. Mine

[00:58:24] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [00:58:24] is

[00:58:24] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [00:58:24] very wrong.

[00:58:25] Carl Lanore: [00:58:25] Uh, okay.

[00:58:29] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [00:58:29] Okay.

[00:58:31] Carl Lanore: [00:58:31] Okay.

[00:58:33] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [00:58:33] After 30, 35 days in a reds,

[00:58:46] showing the X shown off oxytocin in cell.

[00:58:51] Carl Lanore: [00:58:51] So could it, could it be the role of estrogen and like, like in the United States, we have a lot of women on estrogen [00:59:00] replacement therapy post-menopausal and a lot of these women, uh, that the science shows that their bone mineralization improves when they take estrogen.

[00:59:11] Could it not, maybe it's not the estrogen. But estrogen seems to have an effect on oxytocin. It raises oxytocin. Maybe it's the oxytocin that's actually causing the preservation of bone in post-menopausal women and not the estrogen. What do you think?

[00:59:29] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [00:59:29] Okay.

[00:59:31] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [00:59:31] In the arc as was him and oxytocin and both during, during peri-menopause.

[00:59:40] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [00:59:40] Okay.

[00:59:40] Carl Lanore: [00:59:40] Okay.

[00:59:41] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [00:59:41] The receptor for oxytocin is, eh,  the straws in hon formation off his or for oxytocin.

[00:59:58] Carl Lanore: [00:59:58] Oh, so the estrogen acts [01:00:00] on the receptor for oxytocin. Oh

[01:00:03] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [01:00:03] yes.

[01:00:05] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [01:00:05] But they seem dizzy off oxytocin. Resorts

[01:00:16] ended after indirectly off

[01:00:22] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [01:00:22] Okay.

[01:00:23] Carl Lanore: [01:00:23] Okay.

[01:00:24] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [01:00:24] Eh, this, eh,

[01:00:27] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [01:00:27] occipital sin

[01:00:29] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [01:00:29] and

[01:00:30] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [01:00:30] Safa

[01:00:32] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [01:00:32] is VAT, meaning kids with estrogen,

[01:00:35] Carl Lanore: [01:00:35] estrogen, right? Okay. So maybe so maybe the estrogen. So it sounds to me, like you're saying the estrogen may be helps the affinity of the receptor to oxytocin. So oxytocin has more action in the presence of estrogen than without that.

[01:00:53] Is that right?

[01:00:55] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [01:00:55] All right. Okay. It's dependence

[01:00:58] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [01:00:58] burden

[01:01:00] [01:01:00] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [01:01:00] during peri-menopause you're decreasing of estrogen. Okay.

[01:01:08] Carl Lanore: [01:01:08] Okay.

[01:01:09] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [01:01:09] You might learn him. Eh, we are 30 with association started and oxytocin, but their results, eh, next years. In this moment, I don't

[01:01:31] Carl Lanore: [01:01:31] have that results yet. Okay.

[01:01:35] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [01:01:35] Yeah, because I need the 30

[01:01:43] as the organism at female E naturo 18. It is necessary. The bed know phones [01:02:00] because in the middle pounce did have his socks. Born is very, very increased. And my line, my lab, we is 30 D eh, preservation of the osteoporosis and osteopenia.

[01:02:21] Carl Lanore: [01:02:21] Right. Right.

[01:02:24] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [01:02:24] In this moment, we are is 13 associated the oxytocin and exercise,

[01:02:35] Carl Lanore: [01:02:35] oxytocin and exercise.

[01:02:38] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [01:02:38] Their result is very, very interesting.

[01:02:42] Carl Lanore: [01:02:42] Yeah,

[01:02:43] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [01:02:43] because

[01:02:45] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [01:02:45] this

[01:02:46] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [01:02:46] association is very to you. Fart deformation lawn

[01:02:56] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [01:02:56] and

[01:02:56] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [01:02:56] the crazy treasury [01:03:00] offboard in Berry menopause.

[01:03:04] Carl Lanore: [01:03:04] Right. But this is true in men too. So I, I, for, for, for the better part of four years, I have been injecting oxytocin in small amounts. I recently started using more.

[01:03:19] Because of a study that we're going to talk about this Friday with a scientist about oxytocin. But I did my first show on oxytocin about seven years ago. Um, when the study was looking at the microbiome and a specific microbe called L , Terri  and  in rodents and in humans. Is associated with better aging.

[01:03:51] When you have a lot of L Rotarian, your stomach, you seem to age better, look younger, stay younger. Well, [01:04:00] during that discussion, the scientists, I asked a lot of questions. And I asked about blood work. What did you do? Blood work. And did you see any changes in testosterone and estrogen? And she said, well, we do see a presence of higher levels of oxytocin in the blood that correlates with the microbe.

[01:04:22] I thought this is interesting. And about, um, about, uh, six or seven months later, I had a scientist on the show. Who who published the study. And the name of the study was, uh, old Mo old muscle act like young muscle with oxytocin. And they showed how the old rodents that were given oxytocin, their muscles repaired faster than the young rodents.

[01:04:48] And I thought, well, I'm going to start taking oxytocin. Now I have gradually increased my oxytocin. I take oxytocin three times a day, never early in the morning because it suppresses [01:05:00] cortisol. It suppresses cortisol dramatically, but I take three shots of oxytocin a day. One of them is right after I, I work out after lift weights.

[01:05:10] I take, um, 50 use of oxytocin in one shot. It makes my head. Feel like it's going to blow up and I feel flush for a couple minutes and then it goes away and then I'm nice and relaxed and I feel good. So what I want to ask you is in this study, the rodents were given two injections of oxytocin, synthetic oxytocin.

[01:05:34] What would be the human equivalent of the injections that you gave to them? Just curious.

[01:05:43] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [01:05:43] Yeah. My study, we reds in the reds is rare, similar with when we did [01:06:00] dr. Bon and eh, near post my, but it's this necessary D is thirds in preclinical and clinical. For a, that they're mean they're far too. Shasti the injection.

[01:06:22] They pick a song for the winner.

[01:06:27] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [01:06:27] Okay. Okay.

[01:06:29] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [01:06:29] N Z, N, Z. My rants. It, we, and that is it. The liver, because I need . And some, you said research about damaging the oxytocin in the organisa.

[01:06:58] Carl Lanore: [01:06:58] Okay.

[01:06:58] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [01:06:58] But [01:07:00] in the liver

[01:07:02] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [01:07:02] does

[01:07:03] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [01:07:03] oxytocin not cause damage. Right.

[01:07:08] Carl Lanore: [01:07:08] Okay. So, so too much causes damage too much can cause damage.

[01:07:13] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [01:07:13] Yeah.

[01:07:13] Yeah. And direct, but it's nurse's time, eh, is 30 about prevention of the

[01:07:30] Carl Lanore: [01:07:30] osteoporosis. Right.

[01:07:34] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [01:07:34] Right. Because, because, eh, the, the very interesting. In the far 18 in four 83 serpents, one fractures or core and did worldwide in Dick. [01:08:00] It just a moment. Okay. So two moments by then the cure or the current worldwide occurrence is one fret, two, every three

[01:08:13] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [01:08:13] seconds,

[01:08:15] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [01:08:15] one in two women and one in,

[01:08:20] Carl Lanore: [01:08:20] right,

[01:08:21] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [01:08:21] right.

[01:08:23] Eh, there are some obvious signification increase in the incidents of fragility fracture. In the coming years and the rate for using 50%

[01:08:43] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [01:08:43] and

[01:08:44] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [01:08:44] Brazil, 629% at 2050.

[01:08:53] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [01:08:53] It's

[01:08:54] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [01:08:54] frightening.

[01:08:56] Carl Lanore: [01:08:56] So, so, so th th th this research shows that. [01:09:00] Oxytocin could actually prevent a lot of these fractures that women suffer. Yeah.

[01:09:06] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [01:09:06] Yeah. It either, either rants where you receive oxytocin, right. At 31% increase in bone density. Right. Okay. And there's a 90 Mark. Vaughn strength comparable to

[01:09:33] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [01:09:33] Rex

[01:09:34] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [01:09:34] didn't receive OCD. Right,

[01:09:38] Carl Lanore: [01:09:38] right. That's it. That's uh, that's significant. That's the

[01:09:42] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [01:09:42] yeah. In Sydney. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:09:44] Carl Lanore: [01:09:44] Yeah. It's interesting.

[01:09:48] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [01:09:48] We have two injection,

[01:09:51] Carl Lanore: [01:09:51] right?

[01:09:51] Just two, two,

[01:09:54] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [01:09:54] and eh, We feed 12 [01:10:00] hours, hours apart, right? Right. One servi, E M. And AAden 7:00 PM. Team dish. After there's five base, the animal is

[01:10:22] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [01:10:22] I'm on,

[01:10:22] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [01:10:22] is it off? And the lives of the farmer. Off does Ani moms.

[01:10:29] Carl Lanore: [01:10:29] Right? Interesting. So one of the things that makes me excited about this is that many doctors in the United States are not willing to prescribe estrogen for women. They're afraid that it will lead to breast cancer and uterine cancer, but those.

[01:10:50] Attributes of cancer and not, not associated with oxytocin. So perhaps through your research, maybe some years, [01:11:00] uh, doctors will start to prescribe oxytocin for post-menopausal women, uh, to avoid, uh, Osteoporosis instead of BIS, uh, bisphosphonates, which are very dangerous and they cause, uh, uh, Suffolk Adjile cancer.

[01:11:17] I mean, oxytocin sounds like it would be perfect for women as they age.

[01:11:24] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [01:11:24] Yeah. Eh, we we've read in the periods of menopause

[01:11:33] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [01:11:33] is called. F

[01:11:36] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [01:11:36] and E in this situation

[01:11:42] after his section off. Okay. And eh, I am Alize, uh, for myself, for Mesa off Bonnie, [01:12:00] after his tractor. Of two ingredients in the pills of nanofoams they're inferior to the results

[01:12:14] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [01:12:14] because the

[01:12:15] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [01:12:15] increasing deformation of Bonnie in the outfield alive bond in this animal,

[01:12:29] Do you either receive oxytocin

[01:12:32] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [01:12:32] in

[01:12:33] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [01:12:33] this animal with a minimal foams and the concentration of straws in is where they're decrease.

[01:12:47] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [01:12:47] And in

[01:12:49] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [01:12:49] these 30, we added  for this animal. Avalon [01:13:00] oxytocin

[01:13:03] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [01:13:03] and

[01:13:03] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [01:13:03] formation of one

[01:13:06] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [01:13:06] is there,

[01:13:08] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [01:13:08] eh, in thirsty and in the lab we release in Q2 of sell off months sales with oxytocin and.

[01:13:26] We, uh, very fair too. We show him this for Mason off, eh, born with a quality and my daughter with this culture didn't know didn't oxytocin and this needs you.

[01:13:54] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [01:13:54] Okay,

[01:13:56] Carl Lanore: [01:13:56] so turn

[01:13:59] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [01:13:59] off [01:14:00] sales off Dorner

[01:14:03] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [01:14:03] we've mammals.

[01:14:05] Carl Lanore: [01:14:05] Right.

[01:14:08] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [01:14:08] But

[01:14:09] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [01:14:09] see,

[01:14:10] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [01:14:10] well,

[01:14:11] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [01:14:11] I

[01:14:11] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [01:14:11] is the Berry menopause in disputes, you the menopause and the straws. Is a decreasing.

[01:14:27] Right. And, but see that I, eh, increase astrology.

[01:14:37] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [01:14:37] When

[01:14:37] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [01:14:37] do feel where mineral falls boats, a D bond formation is my jaw. Right. That and calls the stent Ram and compute

[01:14:57] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [01:14:57] rats

[01:14:58] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [01:14:58] in manual

[01:14:59] Carl Lanore: [01:14:59] faults. [01:15:00] Right,

[01:15:01] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [01:15:01] right, right,

[01:15:02] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [01:15:02] right. Okay. It did this thirds resultant, no. Was showing positive performance of oxytocin. In control and prevention of decrease bond for me, Ingrid on resistance being  for the quarter of fragility fractures, because is eh, necessary prevail of fracturing.

[01:15:43] Carl Lanore: [01:15:43] I mean, that's exciting because that's the whole reason that women take, uh, drugs to prevent osteoporosis, uh, so that they can avoid fractures and, and for Jill and fragility and th they didn't, this is very exciting. I, you know, oxytocin is [01:16:00] a naturally occurring indogenous protein peptide, and people, women could be given oxytocin instead of drugs.

[01:16:09] That have horrible side effects to keep them from, uh, developing osteoporosis. And I would imagine they'd feel better because oxytocin elicits a sense of calm, a sense of happiness. Uh, it's, it's, it's all around a much better choice than some of these other drugs that women take now, uh, to ward off osteoporosis, I commend you with your work.

[01:16:34] It's very, very exciting, very exciting.

[01:16:39] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [01:16:39] Yeah. Yeah. It, the excellent oxytocin in the brain in court, Iris relation to happiness

[01:16:50] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [01:16:50] in place. Right. However,

[01:16:53] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [01:16:53] okay. However, into Bonnie, it is  for the body [01:17:00] to produce is oxytocin and add to we the, in our sales. To increase bone formation structure.

[01:17:12] Carl Lanore: [01:17:12] So it has, it has to be made in the bone.

[01:17:14] I get it. It has to be made in the bone.

[01:17:16] Dr. Robin White Ph.D: [01:17:16] Yes,

[01:17:17] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [01:17:17] yes. Did more moron his books, the oxytocin for the actual  N bond

[01:17:30] Carl Lanore: [01:17:30] cells. Right. Right. That's very interesting. Very, very interesting. Yeah. This is exciting. I hope that, so you already have other studies you're working on, but the results aren't ready yet. When, when will you have new research to promote next year?

[01:17:50] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [01:17:50] Excuse me. Sorry.

[01:17:53] Carl Lanore: [01:17:53] Yeah. So you said earlier that you're already having, uh, other research that you're working on. [01:18:00] But the results are not available yet. When do you foresee publishing? Uh, the next paper on the effects of oxytocin in bone mineralization. Oh

[01:18:13] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [01:18:13] yeah.

[01:18:14] Carl Lanore: [01:18:14] Next year,

[01:18:16] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [01:18:16] next year. Next February. It's article about oxytocin, oxytocin, and exercise.

[01:18:30] Carl Lanore: [01:18:30] Excellent. I can't wait for that one. Cause that's how I use it now. I use it after I use it. After, after I lift weights, I take my oxytocin and a couple other peptides. Uh post-workout so I'm looking forward to that one. I want to thank you so much for making time to come on the show today.

[01:18:48] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [01:18:48] Oh, okay. Okay.

[01:18:50] And I. Thank you. Thank you very much and sorry for my .

[01:18:57] Carl Lanore: [01:18:57] No, no, you'll find we [01:19:00] understand. I understood everything you said. I know. I know what you're talking about. Thank you so much.

[01:19:05] Prof. Rita Cássia Menegati Dornelles MSc, PhD: [01:19:05] Okay. Bye-bye thank you. Bye bye.

[01:19:08] Carl Lanore: [01:19:08] Bye. So that's it for today's show. We had a little technical difficulty, so you didn't have to listen to a commercial break and you won't have to listen to, uh, The music going out.

[01:19:21] Cause I'm just going to have to pull the plug on the show. Cause I don't think I can play music. Let's see. Let's just see what happens. I don't think so. Yeah. No, my soundboard went bad. It's been on it's way out. That's okay. We'll do a show tomorrow. It'll be fine. I will see everybody tomorrow. Tomorrow's Tuesday.

[01:19:36] We have the blueprint power hour. Don't miss that. Send your questions to on This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.. If you want coach Rob and I to answer them and we'll see everybody tomorrow with more superhuman radio. Thanks for being here

[01:19:47] today.