[00:00:00] Carl Lanore: [00:00:00] welcome back to another episode of superhuman radio. Today is November 9th, 2020. We have an important show. This is a, we try to do shows specifically for our female audience, as often as we can. Today is one of those female centric shows. We're going to be talking about, uh, how HRT may increase the risk of, uh, certain types of cancers.

[00:00:21] Uh, for women as they age, I know that's a big issue for a lot of women when they are thinking about getting on hormone replacement therapy. And, uh, we have some emerging science to talk about in just a moment. We have to thank our title sponsor. First legendary foods. Their website is eat legendary.com.

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[00:01:46] One time vinegar. Dova yeah. Oh, okay. I don't, I, I I'm, I'm a real stickler. I don't want to get people's names wrong. Um, thank you. And, and, and she is with the university of [00:02:00] Nottingham and she has been part of. A recent study that was published at the end of last month, actually, uh, looking at how HRT may actually increase, uh, the risk of breast cancer in women.

[00:02:12] Welcome to the show and thank you for doing this work. It's very, very good work. It's very important. Before we talk about your work, talk about what work preceded this, that you felt this study needed to be done.

[00:02:26] Dr. Yana Vinogradova, Ph.D.: [00:02:26] Well, at the time when we started our study, we knew that HRC has this side effect of increased breast cancer risk.

[00:02:35] But, um, HRT is a combination of hormones. If it has at least two types of estrogen, at least four types of projected generative. And more than that. And when you looked at what was available at the time when we started our study, It was big women health initiative trial, [00:03:00] which concentrated only on one Eastern region and one progestogen.

[00:03:04] And, uh, that w w women they selected for their trial was quite old. And, um, at the other study we knew about was women health, um, million women's study, which was run in England. And, uh, this study was based on questionnaire and a bit, um, there is sort of just try to widen that range of hormones included, but they couldn't increase the number of women who took them.

[00:03:36] So we've had quite a, not convincing evidence.

[00:03:42] Carl Lanore: [00:03:42] So talk about your study. There were some 30,000 participants, uh, subjects included in your study, right?

[00:03:50] Dr. Yana Vinogradova, Ph.D.: [00:03:50] Yes, we use database. Uh, when you, when a woman goes through a GP and, uh, they collect information, [00:04:00] everything about here, about your, uh, diseases about your prescription.

[00:04:05] So it all goes to author, don't know who they are or anonymized. So there's two databases who are covering about 15% of the population in England. And, uh, let me just use the data. When you, what, for every woman's included, whether she developed breast cancer or not, when you everything about their prescriptions and, um, they could compare, uh, different exposures, you know, how long they will take in drugs, which drugs they will take and reach estrogen, which progestogen, uh, when they stopped, how it affects, if there is.

[00:04:49] Um, uh, yeah, it's this kind of information

[00:04:52] Carl Lanore: [00:04:52] now. I know that you, you also, I've got, I'm sorry, please. Oh, I was going to say, I know that you also [00:05:00] isolated certain, uh, factors that could be considered, um, um, comorbidities. Uh, you looked at, uh, people who were smokers. You, you took them out. What about obesity and metabolic derangement?

[00:05:16] Did you also exclude those people or did you keep those in the subjects?

[00:05:21] Dr. Yana Vinogradova, Ph.D.: [00:05:21] We kept this people and we included their weight or index into analysis. So, uh, and, um, also we had enough observation to look separately on different. Groups of women like lean, uh, with normal weight, uh, I mean, men who are overweight and who are obese, so we could actually investigate whether the differences in risks coming from their hormone replacement therapy were different in this groups.

[00:05:58] Carl Lanore: [00:05:58] Did you also look at, [00:06:00] did you also look at, uh, uh, indicators like, um, Fasting blood sugar and also insulin.

[00:06:09] Dr. Yana Vinogradova, Ph.D.: [00:06:09] No, we didn't look at it. We did include the diagnosis of diabetes if a woman had a diabetes. So that's what I thought it was an alphabet study.

[00:06:24] Carl Lanore: [00:06:24] Okay. Okay. And plus you had to go and use a database that existed.

[00:06:28] Had you. Had you started the intake process. You could have asked more questions. You could have gotten more data points and you could have looked at some of these other things too, right?

[00:06:39] Dr. Yana Vinogradova, Ph.D.: [00:06:39] Yeah. But you won't be able to have so many

[00:06:43] Carl Lanore: [00:06:43] cases. Right, right, right. How do you get have

[00:06:47] Dr. Yana Vinogradova, Ph.D.: [00:06:47] to be a really, really huge crowd of people and it's not feasible to do this.

[00:06:52] Carl Lanore: [00:06:52] Now. You, you had a control group also, right?

[00:07:00] [00:06:59] Dr. Yana Vinogradova, Ph.D.: [00:06:59] Developed breast cancer. We looked for four or five controls in the same general practice. The reason why we did it, uh, the prescription partners in practices may be different. So we've wanted to control to be the controls to be, uh, from the same practice as a woman. And of course they were the same age.

[00:07:18] So, um, yeah, this was two factors they might control still.

[00:07:24] Carl Lanore: [00:07:24] But, but the difference was one used HRT and one did not. Is that what the control, the control had never used HRT?

[00:07:32] Dr. Yana Vinogradova, Ph.D.: [00:07:32] No, they did use HRT. They didn't develop breast cancer at the time when they developed it, but we looked at the history of prescription of cases and controls also in children they're like smoking from a, B is how the disease is onset compared.

[00:07:50] What happens in the group of cases and the group of controls. Excellent.

[00:07:55] Carl Lanore: [00:07:55] So let's talk about your findings. Um, talk about, so [00:08:00] what would the different types of hormones they were using? You said there were like eight or about eight different types that were included in, in this study.

[00:08:09] Dr. Yana Vinogradova, Ph.D.: [00:08:09] Well, did it cover most, which are prescribed wasn't the prescribed in the UK, so we could have enough cases and controls to compare there.

[00:08:17] Um, what's happening in between, uh, defender's books. And, uh, so we've had two types of fish, sturgeon, it's the doll. And once you get to queerness to mr. Jen, and to have four different types of, um, he just the gym and, um, uh, yeah, I'm, uh, I know there are more of them in the world and some of them even. I didn't know that was associated with a lower risk, but he didn't have any data for them.

[00:08:48] So,

[00:08:48] Carl Lanore: [00:08:48] right. So th th th but this is still important. And here's why I say it's important because if you're a woman of a certain age and you're using one of these, [00:09:00] uh, standard standards of care, uh, pharmacological preparations of estrogen, this really means something to you because this. May tell the story about your risks using that particular person, ration of estrogen or progesterone.

[00:09:19] Uh, okay. So this is, this is still a very important discussion because I would venture to guess at least 85% of the physicians in the UK, in the United States and throughout Europe are using the, the, the, the drugs that are considered standard of care. Which are these a pharmaceutically designed hormone replacement products?

[00:09:43] So this is, this is a very important discussion. So when you started to, uh, look at the data, what, what started to jump out at you? As far as the, what was increasing the risk of breast cancer in women who were [00:10:00] using. One of these or two of these preparations, what, what, what did you start to see in the numbers?

[00:10:05] What percentage? And was this a very statistically significant, uh, increase in the risk of breast cancer?

[00:10:13] Dr. Yana Vinogradova, Ph.D.: [00:10:13] Yes, the problem is that, uh, it's really hard to draw a line when to say when the risk is low, when the risk is high, the risk goes up continuously. The longer you take the therapy, the heart, it grows.

[00:10:26] And in the, in the existing literature, they all in guidelines, they use five year cutoff point. So if you take the drugs more than five years, then your risk is increased and it's kind of, uh, it's, it's still for all progestogen okay. But for some of them are really hard for some of them are much lower.

[00:10:50] Yeah. And then that's what the font, you know, but, um,

[00:10:58] Yeah, but the good news is [00:11:00] as soon as woman stops taking them the risk those down. And, but again, you know, for some hormones, it goes down very quickly. Some of them, it stays for a while.

[00:11:14] Carl Lanore: [00:11:14] So, so, um, there was a difference in, um, a monotherapy where a woman was only given estrogen. Or a form of pharmaceutical form of estrogen and a woman was given to a pharmaceutical form of estrogen and progesterone.

[00:11:33] Did the risk of breast cancer increase with the dual therapy versus the monotherapy?

[00:11:41] Dr. Yana Vinogradova, Ph.D.: [00:11:41] Yes, the risk, uh, mostly coming from progestogen for Eastern region. It's a small increase, but the problem is if a woman has wounds. That is affected by their, uh, excessive East Virginia estrogen in the [00:12:00] body. And progestogen is add it's to protect the wound from or unpleasant.

[00:12:07] Okay. So how is it to get through the womb or take progestogen take risks?

[00:12:16] Carl Lanore: [00:12:16] I think there is a, there is an association. With increased endometrial, uh, growth, uh, in women who only get, uh, an estrogen versus when they get estrogen and progesterone or is it backwards too? I have it backwards,

[00:12:37] Dr. Yana Vinogradova, Ph.D.: [00:12:37] I think. Yeah, you're right.

[00:12:38] Yeah. That's uh, that's why women are prescribed combined therapy. If they still have wounds.

[00:12:43] Carl Lanore: [00:12:43] Right. Right. So there are, there is some evidence that the progesterone and estrogen in combination seems to, uh, favor a normal endometrial lining, but it seems that it also increases the risk of breast cancer at the same time.

[00:12:59] Yes. [00:13:00] Okay. And, um, now, now that. How significant were these increases out of 10,000 women who are on estrogen, only therapy versus 10,000 women who are on estrogen and progesterone therapy. And again, we're talking about the synthetic forms that are made through pharmaceutical companies. What was that? How many more women would get breast cancer in that 10,000 group,

[00:13:24] Dr. Yana Vinogradova, Ph.D.: [00:13:24] if they take hormones for more than five years?

[00:13:28] Yes. So, uh, Um, it, it depends on Asia Hulu. For example, if they're talking about women in their six days, then we have five extra cases in women who are taking estrogen only therapy,

[00:13:45] Carl Lanore: [00:13:45] five, five extra cases per 10,000

[00:13:49] Dr. Yana Vinogradova, Ph.D.: [00:13:49] housing. Yes. But if we took in about women, uh, the same age group who are taking combined therapy for more than a years, It's taken about [00:14:00] 26 extra cases per

[00:14:01] Carl Lanore: [00:14:01] 10,026, 26

[00:14:05] Dr. Yana Vinogradova, Ph.D.: [00:14:05] five.

[00:14:06] Carl Lanore: [00:14:06] Okay. Okay. Okay. Very good. Very good. Now, um, you mentioned that the controls were also on HRT, but they never developed breast cancer. So isn't the next question. Why what's different about the controls versus the group that seemed to develop more breast cancer? In order to elucidate what the real reason older women become more susceptible to breast cancer when they use HRT?

[00:14:38] Dr. Yana Vinogradova, Ph.D.: [00:14:38] I don't think that nobody knows. I think it's a very complex, uh, issue. And, uh, there are so many other factors which affect the development of breast cancer and hormone replacement therapy may be one of them, but again, you know, It's it doesn't mean that anybody who [00:15:00] would take hormone replacement therapy would have breast cancer.

[00:15:03] Carl Lanore: [00:15:03] Right. Right.

[00:15:05] Dr. Yana Vinogradova, Ph.D.: [00:15:05] I think there are other things or rather factors. And then if she's lucky to have all of them, then it may happen to this yet.

[00:15:13] Carl Lanore: [00:15:13] So, uh, did the database you, you, uh, used for this study? Um, have any additional information say about, Oh, inflammatory. Uh, markers like C-reactive protein or any of those.

[00:15:28] Were you able to look at that data?

[00:15:33] Dr. Yana Vinogradova, Ph.D.: [00:15:33] Um, I don't think it's this consistently. They record it. That's why they didn't take it into account.

[00:15:44] Carl Lanore: [00:15:44] Um, know th th th the thing that immediately comes to my mind is if we had a, a control group. That did the same thing as the subjects that we're studying, but the control group did not [00:16:00] develop breast cancer.

[00:16:01] It would excite me to try to tease down into the data that is available to see if there's anything different about the control group. Like. You said that you looked at BMI, was there any correlation with the increased risk of breast cancer when using hormone replacement therapy for five years or longer with women have a higher BMI for it?

[00:16:25] Dr. Yana Vinogradova, Ph.D.: [00:16:25] Well, the farm that the risk in, uh, in women with high BMI is actually lower. But again, the don't know why, because no, that rough I'm kind of explanations on the other hand. It's maybe that. It's just harder to diagnose breast cancer in

[00:16:47] Carl Lanore: [00:16:47] bigger women, sort of sure. Yeah. Interesting.

[00:16:55] Dr. Yana Vinogradova, Ph.D.: [00:16:55] So be calm, be certain about, you know, well, yeah, if you, if you, [00:17:00] uh, have a high BMI, you can take hormone replacement therapy and nothing will happen to you.

[00:17:05] It's not, it's not what we can conclude.

[00:17:09] Carl Lanore: [00:17:09] What about the linkage? Was there any correlation to women who were diagnosed with type two diabetes, having a higher, uh, uh, correlation to breast cancer versus the controls?

[00:17:23] Dr. Yana Vinogradova, Ph.D.: [00:17:23] Ooh. Um,

[00:17:30] it didn't affect the, um, it didn't affect the, uh, the well. I just know we did, we did include a diabetes type two into the model. So, um, the results already adjusted for this. So

[00:17:49] Carl Lanore: [00:17:49] no only reason why I bring this out is, uh, you know, and, and cancer research, especially there is a, um, there's a new way of thinking that cancer is not [00:18:00] you.

[00:18:00] You may be genetically predisposed. To cancer, if you have the BRCA gene, but obviously we know from twin studies, we have to, on those, I go to twins and they both have the BRCA gene and one gets breast cancer. And one doesn't makes you say, well, what's the difference? And so there's a fascinating, uh, theory that's been put forth by a doctor, uh, um, S C freed dr.

[00:18:27] Thomas Seyfried. He's written a couple of good books and he's published some really good research, uh, pointing at cancer, having a metabolic origin, not a genetic origin and that the mitochondria switches to, uh, switches to, uh, glycolysis anaerobic glycolysis. And once the mitochondria switches, then the unco genes change.

[00:18:54] And cancer begins, and he's actually shown this by removing the, the mitochondria from a [00:19:00] cancer cell and putting it in a healthy cell and vice versa. And he's proved this out. So what if the reality is, and I'm just posing this, you know, just for the sake of conversation, but what if the reality is the difference between the women who were on hormone replacement therapy, uh, that didn't get breast cancer in five or more years versus the.

[00:19:23] Women who were on hormone replacement therapy and did get breast cancer, was their metabolic status, their, their, their, their, uh, uh, insulin and blood sugar management, uh, which has been linked to changing the mitochondria. Then it wouldn't be estrogen. It's the, it's the terrain more than the hormone.

[00:19:43] That's, that's linking them to cancer. What do you think about that?

[00:19:48] Dr. Yana Vinogradova, Ph.D.: [00:19:48] This isn't just some question. Yes. Yeah. But. You didn't really go into detail. And I think that the problem with [00:20:00] breasts, constant breasts is such an old gun. It's a lease on hormones. If you think that it develops in two or three years when, uh, when young woman is grown up and then, um,

[00:20:17] and then it's still developing during pregnancy. Completing the development, uh, during the breastfeeding. So you can see that hormones are very important to breasts. No, like any other organs in the body. That's why I think that hormone replacement therapy is, uh, is an important drug, you know, which can affect breast cancer, not any other organs.

[00:20:45] Carl Lanore: [00:20:45] Interesting. Okay. I buy that. I we're going to take a quick commercial break. When we come back, I've got lots more questions. Stay tuned. You're watching and listening to super Yuma radio. If you're watching on Facebook or YouTube, feel free to post questions and we'll get to them as quickly. [00:21:00] Okay. We'll be right back.

[00:21:02] This is the superhuman channel where we use oxygen for the power of good.

[00:21:10] Welcome back. We're talking with Yana vinegar, Dava for Dover, the Dover. Sorry. Thanks. I get it right the first time. And then I ruin it the second time. And we're talking about the, uh, The risks increase the breast cancer, uh, when using hormone replacement therapy, uh, in older women. So did we see a difference in, since we're talking about all the women, whether are some younger women in the group that were on HRT, did they have the same increased risk as the older women?

[00:21:41] Dr. Yana Vinogradova, Ph.D.: [00:21:41] It looks like they have lower risk than older women in January. Will we. Couldn't say much about, uh, use long-term use of estrogen therapy because we didn't have enough data. Uh, but, um, for estrogen progestogen therapy, [00:22:00] yes, there is an increase hands it's much smaller than, uh, in older. In, for example, if you're talking about 50, 59 age group than it is extra 15% on 10,000 women.

[00:22:16] But when we moved to 70% to nine each group, then you have extra 36 in 10,000 women.

[00:22:27] Carl Lanore: [00:22:27] Now there's a lot of people who would say, that's not a big jump of 10,000, but I realize it's statistically significant and reproducible. So that's why we're talking about it. Um, so what about, can we overlay anything we know about birth control pills?

[00:22:44] And this research. I know women who are well past menopause. Who've been on birth control for 25 and 30 years. Progestin only birth control too. Can we extrapolate from this research that they would be at a higher risk of breast cancer, [00:23:00] staying on birth control, even though they can't have children any longer,

[00:23:05] Dr. Yana Vinogradova, Ph.D.: [00:23:05] actually, when you get to this age, it doesn't matter because that effect of, uh, hormones disappear after a while.

[00:23:13] So if they had a break on vape, continue, like HFC taken HFC it's uh, you start again.

[00:23:26] Carl Lanore: [00:23:26] So some women, some women, uh, turn to hormone replacement therapy to mitigate, uh, some of the early symptoms of menopause and perimenopause, which, you know, sleeplessness hot flashes. Uh, uh, extreme mood change and so on, they usually only go on for a transitional period, maybe a couple, three years, and then they stop, uh, we'll wean back off of them.

[00:23:50] It, do we see an increased risk of breast cancer for the women who are just doing it for a year or two versus long-term?

[00:23:57] Dr. Yana Vinogradova, Ph.D.: [00:23:57] No, it's very, very low in threes. [00:24:00] It's still better than Chris, but it's, it's very low, you know? So it's, uh, I would,

[00:24:07] Carl Lanore: [00:24:07] yeah, not for that, but the women who stay low, what was some of the longest term, uh, in your groups?

[00:24:16] Uh, were there women that were on HRT for 10 years or more? Or did you just stop counting after five?

[00:24:22] Dr. Yana Vinogradova, Ph.D.: [00:24:22] Uh, no. No, they, uh, for, yeah, I think there was more than eight years for some women. They said there's a couple of more than one. Yes. One, uh, overall looking at. Or estrogen or progestogen therapy, I mean all combined, but if you did two particular types of progestogen, then we're talking about 12 years max.

[00:24:51] Carl Lanore: [00:24:51] And did we end, did we see, did we see a higher occurrence, uh, correlation to breast cancer with the women that were going 12 years and [00:25:00] more

[00:25:01] Dr. Yana Vinogradova, Ph.D.: [00:25:01] walk wrong? Very persistent. It's definitely going up the more, the longer you take it, the higher

[00:25:08] Carl Lanore: [00:25:08] it goes. So if you had to guess, and I know you don't like to guess, that's why you're a scientist what's happening in the body that makes this once wonderful group of hormones that be stow, youthfulness and vitality turn against women and start causing cancers.

[00:25:33] Well,

[00:25:34] Dr. Yana Vinogradova, Ph.D.: [00:25:34] it's, it's hard to say, but sometimes I think that it's, uh, more like one dose, three serves. Oh. And some women have a larger booted sound. Women have, um, mild their symptoms of HRC. So you can see that the body is very refined. Um, [00:26:00] Has had a very defined mechanism exactly how much we need hormones, but when you give the same dose to everybody,

[00:26:09] Carl Lanore: [00:26:09] it's

[00:26:09] Dr. Yana Vinogradova, Ph.D.: [00:26:09] may not work.

[00:26:11] Carl Lanore: [00:26:11] Right.

[00:26:14] Dr. Yana Vinogradova, Ph.D.: [00:26:14] It's only my kind of

[00:26:16] Carl Lanore: [00:26:16] what you're basically saying is we're all unique. And this one size fits all. Type of prescribing may actually be where the problem is maybe, you know, and this is why I did a show in 2006 and I had dr. David Zastava on the show. He started ZRT labs, the saliva and blood spot lab.

[00:26:40] And I said to him, I said it every parent. Should run labs on their child in their twenties, maybe 25, 26, to see where their testosterone is, where their estrogen is, where their progesterone is, where DHA is, where [00:27:00] a pregnant alone is, where all these hormones are. So now we have a time capsule of our own unique symphony of hormones so that when the time comes.

[00:27:12] That you're considering hormone replacement therapy. They don't throw you into this epidemiologically designed puddle of, you know, because, because, uh, we have an ever-growing number of sick people and epidemiology is taking a snapshot of a lot of sick people and saying that's normal. So I think, I think that every parent should give their child the gift of getting their blood work in their twenties, even if they're 30, get it now so that when they turn to hormone replacement therapy, they can say to their doctor, this is what I looked like when I was young.

[00:27:49] What do you think about,

[00:27:52] Dr. Yana Vinogradova, Ph.D.: [00:27:52] I'm not sure. I think it's a very invasive when you try to take drugs and, uh, On one [00:28:00] hand, uh, a lack of women who has kind of mild menopause, they don't need to take anything, but I did talk to women who had really severe menopause, where their quality of life was affected very badly and how hormone replacement therapy changed their life.

[00:28:19] And so I think that's how long the plasma therapist should be taken as a medicine quite responsibly, you know? So, uh, And, uh, all Noah, they ask us, you know, what do you advise the women? It's just good to talk to your doctor. And the problem with some symptoms may be age-related. Some symptoms may be stress-related and just taken HFC straight away without investigating what causes all the problems in the body.

[00:28:51] I think it's not right in doing it to talk to your doctor. So. Try to understand what is

[00:28:56] Carl Lanore: [00:28:56] happening in your body. And I would [00:29:00] imagine early detection plays a big part in this too. So we have, uh, insurance companies now telling women, excuse me, they only have to get mammograms done every few years. And if you're on HRT, you really do need to get a mammogram done every single year.

[00:29:16] Would you agree with that?

[00:29:23] Dr. Yana Vinogradova, Ph.D.: [00:29:23] I know that, uh, HMT increases density of breast issue, but what's can mama ground find there then? I'm not sure. I don't know.

[00:29:33] Carl Lanore: [00:29:33] Oh, okay. All right. Uh, and there's a lot of other popular methods now they're doing, um, they're now doing, um, that, uh, thermography that they say is much more precise and can detect things earlier.

[00:29:46] But I think that it's, I think it's reasonable for women. Well on HRT to do everything that they can to make sure they're not developing a lump in their breast, that to do self, excuse me, self exams often. And so [00:30:00] on. What are you?

[00:30:02] Dr. Yana Vinogradova, Ph.D.: [00:30:02] Oh, yes. Yeah, I will. I will do it anyway. Take it. Taking your HIV or not taking, you know, I think it's, it's, uh, like self-defense enough making sure your health.

[00:30:15] Yeah. Yeah.

[00:30:16] Carl Lanore: [00:30:16] Are you, are you, have you ever considered HR T for yourself?

[00:30:21] Dr. Yana Vinogradova, Ph.D.: [00:30:21] No. It was like, you know, yeah. I, I just, uh, at the time of the time, get lots of exercise and still do so I think it helps. And also like thinking about post blushes, sometimes I think we're like old hidden system. You feel cold and you put another leg, you feel cold, you put another layer, like trying to increase the, um, the power of the heating system and suddenly it's works.

[00:30:49] And you're really, really hot, right. It there. So I think that's, uh, if you try to understand your body a bit better, and again, if you're lucky to [00:31:00] go through it without major problems, let's put,

[00:31:04] Carl Lanore: [00:31:04] yeah, there are a lot of women out there who seem to go through menopause without any effort at all. They, in fact, they don't even notice that they went through menopause and then there are a lot of women out there.

[00:31:16] Who seemed to have very difficult times with menopause. Yeah, I I've, I've looked at this from a far, for a long time. I find that, um, I find that women who have a lot more body fat tend to have an easier time with menopause because, because of the, the aromatase process in fat cells that produces Esther dial.

[00:31:43] So as the ovaries start to. Give up the fat cells kick in and they start converting androgens like DHA and so on to estrogen. And they seem to have an easier time. I'd find that there's two types of lean women [00:32:00] and they either have a easy time or a hard time. The lean women that are lean because they're athletic.

[00:32:06] They train, they exercise, they pay attention to their food. They keep, they keep their blood sugar managed without even realizing it. They eat. High protein and vegetables. They don't consume a lot of sugars and starches. They have an easy time with menopause because the hot flashes are predominantly a result of a hypoglycemia because when progesterone and estrogen start to come out of balance, they create a tug of war.

[00:32:31] Blood, sugar goes up, blood sugar goes down. And when it goes down, you start to sweat, you get the shakes, the tremors, you may have, uh, you know, a little bit of a brain fog. And that is more due to the fact that they are already metabolically challenged, but the women who are lean cause they exercise, they walk every day, they eat a certain diet that doesn't push blood sugar up to they coast right through [00:33:00] menopause for a different reason because they are metabolically flexible.

[00:33:04] But, but, but, but the really lean women who are not. Don't carry a lot of muscle. We like to call them skinny fat because they, they look small, but they're really much more body. They could be 28% body fat, but that just because they fit in a size two dress, everybody says, Oh, you look. So they have a very hard time going through it menopause very, very hard time.

[00:33:27] So, and that's been my observation of discussing this with scientists for the past, going on 15 years.

[00:33:37] Any, any, any opinion?

[00:33:40] Dr. Yana Vinogradova, Ph.D.: [00:33:40] Um, no. W it's hard to say. Yeah. I just know, for example, for women, with the large board of my son's ex, they are their risk of breast cancer is very much increased. And prior to, prior to Lyndon [00:34:00] it's, um,

[00:34:04] It's hard to a cop to say, w w what's better to be a white woman to be Kimball.

[00:34:14] Carl Lanore: [00:34:14] I want to take our last commercial break. And when we come back, I want you to put into your own words, what you want, both lay people and clinician to take away from this because the women's health initiative did it horrible thing in the United States many years ago.

[00:34:28] Where they took a lot of women and scared the heck out of these women just stopped taking their hormones and the outcomes were horrible. I don't think that that's what you're suggesting here. I think what you're suggesting is that people be under a, be aware. Of the risk and manage it. So, so let's talk about that.

[00:34:44] Come backstage, human channel, we're ripped and we're ready.

[00:34:52] Welcome back. We have a couple of comments to get to real quick. Jonathan Chase [00:35:00] call you or says, uh, she's not looking at bio-identical hormones. That's true. In the beginning of the show, she indicated that the only thing they can include in this study were. What was available in this database. And this database is made up of women who are getting the standard of care, hormone replacement therapies, which are generally a pharmaceutical products.

[00:35:22] Yes. Progestins and progesterone. As far as the feedback goes, I can't hear it. I don't know if it's on your end. Um, but I can't hear any feedback, so I don't know how to fix it if I can't hear it. Sorry about that. So, um, The women's health initiative did a horrible thing to women in the United States. So all these women who are on hormone replacement therapy and doing fine, took themselves off immediately.

[00:35:45] And now the same data that was used in the, from the women's health initiative is now being reprocessed. And now they're coming out with really good information from it, valuable information. So I [00:36:00] don't think you're telling women get off your hormones. You're probably just telling them, consult your doctor and, and be vigilant about breast cancer.

[00:36:11] Dr. Yana Vinogradova, Ph.D.: [00:36:11] Exactly, exactly. It's uh, when you see women suffering from menopause, it's no point of stoking them and to definitely that woman, if she has any kind of problems and he'll, . Reduce, you should see a doctor and discuss what going on here. Boy, there are so many options available in terms of combinations of hormones, and she can try it for short times.

[00:36:37] You can try it for longer. So it's, it's definitely, uh, up to a doctor and this woman to decide what they want to do. And we, we did our best, you know, to provide as many details as possible to facilitate this

[00:36:53] Carl Lanore: [00:36:53] discussion. And you and I discussed off the air [00:37:00] bioidenticals and it's just not within the purview of this study to discuss those, but it would be nice to get a study, uh, together because there's a lot of women here in the United States on bio-identical hormones and doctors that are treating them, probably a tracking if they're diagnosed with breast cancer.

[00:37:15] And so that, that data is out there. It just needs to be tapped somehow. Um, yeah, because methylated hormones, uh, pose their own unique, uh, risks, uh, any methylated hormone because of hepatic stress and, uh, increases in, uh, the risk of cancers, certain types of cancers, as well as, uh, blood clots. So it would be nice to be able to tease that out and see what is exclusively the hormone.

[00:37:44] Doing and what is exclusively, the preparation that the vehicle that's carrying the hormone is doing now, that would really be wonderful. That would be wonderful. And the other thing is, I mean, it would be great to have a database that [00:38:00] shows inflammatory markers and metabolic status. Uh, not just Frank, uh, type two diabetes, but you know, uh, a lot happens when blood sugar is not at the Frank diabetes level.

[00:38:14] Uh, as you're getting closer and closer to your, your pre-diabetic, uh, we know that insulin, uh, is always trying to keep that down. And if you're putting, you know, all this insulin out to keep your blood sugar here, that insulin we know helps cancer grow. So those are nice data points to, to have, have been.

[00:38:35] Yeah. Oh,

[00:38:36] Dr. Yana Vinogradova, Ph.D.: [00:38:36] Carl, I think the problem is that, uh, that data for metabolic syndrome. It's collected when a woman has problems, but somebody who is healthy, she wouldn't be bothered to do that. So we have like the skew it's simple or a metabolic data. In this case, it would be hard to tease out [00:39:00] the effect of HRC on the development of pasta using this

[00:39:04] Carl Lanore: [00:39:04] data.

[00:39:06] I agree. I agree. And what fascinates me the most about this study are the controls. What is unique about these controls? Cause that is really, I believe where the answer lies, uh, for all of this discussion about the effects of hormone replacement therapy on breast cancer. Because clearly if there are age matched practice match, women getting HRT in a one size fits all phenomenon and the same women here, but they're getting breast cancer.

[00:39:39] I want to know what are these women doing differently? They're the magic spot for me. That's me, but that's just me. That's just me. I want to thank you. I want to thank you for making time to come on the show. It's a very important discussion and the takeaway messages. If you're on HRT, be vigilant about breast cancer, the older [00:40:00] you get and the longer you're on it, be vigilant about breast cancer.

[00:40:04] That's the, that's the takeaway? Correct? Okay, thank you so much for making time. Yeah, this is fun. Okay. Take care. So there you have it. Uh, we're going to take our last commercial break. And when we come back, I'm going to wrap up the show and a little commentary. Stay tuned. We'll be right back. This is this superhuman channel.

[00:40:31] I just want to wrap a couple things up real quick.

[00:40:36] What happens as we get older, that hormones become bad for us. That really is the question. Young girls going through puberty and all the way through their reproductive years have a very high levels of estrogen, progesterone, and other hormones. They have testosterone, they have DHT, they have everything.

[00:40:59] There's no such [00:41:00] thing as male and female hormones, it's just a skewed. Hormones that are more predominant or higher in one, um, than the other. That's all there is. So when you look at this saying estrogen is the reason for these breast cancers is really disingenuous. It could be obesity. I mean, the good doctor said women with a high BMI have higher rate of breast cancer.

[00:41:32] You can't, you can't exclude these things. You can't, you know, I I'm, I'm saying this because there's a lot of women out there and men I'm on, I've been on testosterone since 2007. Now I think, I think it was 2007. I got on. Yeah. And supposedly prostate cancer is increased. Risk of men are on HRT, but my PSA's are virtually non, non distinguishable.

[00:41:56] You can't even read them. So it's not [00:42:00] testosterone. And if anything we learned from dr. Samuel Denman, it's low testosterone is linked to prostate cancer in men because he's giving men super physiological doses of testosterone. He's curing the most aggressive prostate cancers. Everyone's ignoring them.

[00:42:16] The same is true of women. We get older, we collect metabolic debris. We have higher stages of inflammation. We know that that's why they call it inflammation because as you get older, inflammation goes up blaming estrogen for breast cancer or testosterone for prostate cancer is like blaming a book of matches for starting a fire.

[00:42:43] The book of matches didn't stop the fire. Somebody lit them and brought it, went over to the curtains and set them on fire. There's a missing link in this discussion and. That's why I'm so fascinated that they had controls. If it was exclusively estrogen and [00:43:00] progesterone that increased the risk of breast cancer, the controls who were also on the same therapies, they were matched age matched out of the practice match out of the hormone replacement therapy.

[00:43:11] They would have had breast cancer too. How do you find controls if this is what estrogen and progesterone does? So to me, the magic is looking at the extraneous data. That's still available in that study and trying to connect some dots that, Oh, look at that the controls had a lower BMI than everybody else, the controls, you know, but we can't look at inflammation cause they didn't go added that information.

[00:43:42] But you try saying that inflammation and inflammation, um, But the reality is this study. It's almost like Otto Warburg. He won the Nobel peace prize for discovering a way to identify solid tumors in the body [00:44:00] by radio isotopes and sugar, and giving it to you and watching where the sugar went because the sugar goes right to the tumor.

[00:44:10] Like a tornado and that tumor sucking the sugar in and they said, Oh, we got to give this guy the Nobel peace prize for discovering a way to identify tumors. No, he didn't do that. He identified a way to kill tumors, stop them of sugar. They need sugar. Now we know this is not a hundred percent, there's a small percentage of solid tumors that can live  and on glutamine.

[00:44:35] So those types of tumors. Starving them of sugar won't work. But if you have a glyco, a glycolytic cancer, you just go keto and it's th the tumors die. They starved. So the good doctor today, her research is fantastic, but just like Otto Warburg, he, he didn't discover how [00:45:00] to detect tumors. He discovered how to kill certain tumors.

[00:45:02] You starved them of sugar. And the good doctors research showed that there were a population of people out there who take these hormones and don't develop breast cancer. That's the group that I would want to study. What are they doing differently? Let's see what data is available. Can we reach any of them now?

[00:45:19] Are they still a lot? I mean, in that group lies the connection between breast cancer and no breast cancer.

[00:45:32] I don't want women to freak out Elisa's on hormone replacement therapy. She gets her, uh, a thermogram done every year or two. Um, more so if she's concerned, I also think the good doctor pointed out something that's very bad, brilliant cookie cutter, cutter, HR tea places. Everybody gets this, everybody that that's nonsense.

[00:45:55] Unfortunately. We have to use these epidemiological [00:46:00] pools of data to come up with what a high and low normal is. But as the population gets sicker and sicker, they change and you don't want to be in the, in the sick populations. Normal. You want to be in your normal. The only way to do that is if you have young children that are in their twenties and thirties, you want to give them a Christmas gift.

[00:46:21] This year, two things do a 23 and me. With everything, health and, and genetic health and, and, and also ancestry. Cause that's fascinating, but get a full blood panel done for them. And if they have insurance, it's cheap so that when they turn 50 and 60 and they're faced with the hormone replace therapy, they actually have evidence of their own unique hormone levels.

[00:46:51] There are some women out there that need more testosterone than others. But you don't know that unless you knew that they needed what they produce more testosterone when they well younger,

[00:47:03] [00:47:00] you know, unfortunately we only think about our health when we get sick. We don't think about it when we feel great. That's the time to think about it. That is my summary. I hope you enjoyed today's show. Please pass it around. But the bottom line is if you're on HRT, And you're getting one of the standards of care, prescription drugs, prem pro Premarin.

[00:47:30] It's a handful of them. If they're coming from a pharmaceutical company and not a compounding pharmacy, then you really need to be more aware about breast cancer. Because I predict that if somebody took the time to do the study women who are doing. Uh, bioidenticals have a lower risk. And then of course there's always that component of metabolic status and overall health that contributes because there are some women who are not on [00:48:00] HRT and they're getting breast cancer all the time.

[00:48:02] And most of them are pretty obese and metabolically challenged. So there you go. Pass this show around. We'll see you tomorrow. Oh, Rob has to take off tomorrow because his wife is having surgery. So those of you pray, say a prayer for Jennifer ruggish. Uh, and we have Aaron Singerman on doing an episode of, uh, fathers and sons.

[00:48:20] So that's going to be fascinating for Tuesday, tune in then. Thanks for being here today. And take good care of yourself. [00:49:00] .