[00:00:00] Carl Lanore: [00:00:00] Hey, Hey, welcome back to another episode of super human radio. We're going to be talking about stretching today. You know, there's a lot of information about stretching, misinformation, about stretching. We're going to try to get to the bottom of it today. Um, I'm sorry for the poor choice of shirts, I wore this orange shirt today and realized that, uh, the camera color is just whacked out now.

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[00:01:38] And now without further delay, my guest today is Dr. Dane P Laroche. How you doing Dane? Thank you for being here. And, uh, you are with the university of New Hampshire and you were with the exercise physiology department, correct. [00:02:00] And, uh, You recently published a study, looking at ballistic and static stretching.

[00:02:07] Y Y w I mean, with, with the body of information out there about stretching, why was this study needed?

[00:02:16] Dr. Dain P. LaRoche, Ph.D.: [00:02:16] Yeah, so there's, you know, there's a lot of piecemeal studies that have looked at, you know, one type of stretching versus the other. Um, they may have looked at the effect of, you know, pre exercise, stretching on some measure of performance, like vertical jump or sprinting or muscle strength or power.

[00:02:30] Um, but usually they didn't have any mechanistic, um, measures in there. In other words, you know, they measure stretching, they measure the effects on performance, but they didn't actually see what was happening within the muscle itself with respect to the elastic properties of the muscle or the ability that muscle to generate strength and power, and then subsequently how that translates into athletic performance.

[00:02:50] Carl Lanore: [00:02:50] So let's just kind of talk a little bit about previous research, right? So. Um, like 20 years ago, uh, people were saying stretching is a [00:03:00] great thing. Then somewhere along the line, they looked at exclusively its effect on power after stretching, we're talking about static stretching and, and they found out, Oh my God, when you stretch, before you lift weights, you're not as strong.

[00:03:17] What were those studies valid or was there something lacking from those studies that kind of skewed the, the end points?

[00:03:26] Dr. Dain P. LaRoche, Ph.D.: [00:03:26] Uh, so, you know, I think, you know, she was seen as this, you know, holistic, uh, you know, activity that you should do before exercise. And you know, you go back a hundred years in physical education textbooks or something, you know, they'd say, you know, make sure you stretch before your exercise.

[00:03:41] If you ask anybody, they'll tell you, make sure you stretch before exercise. What was lacking, as you said, was, was the empirical evidence that stretching really a prevents injury or B improved performance. Um, and, and so it was one of those, you know, I wouldn't call it a myth, but it was just a common practice that everybody did.

[00:04:00] [00:04:00] And, uh, over time the evidence has started to accumulate we're, you know, we're real studies were done. And looked at, is there any evidence that suggests stretching prevents injury? And is there any evidence of stretching improves performance? And when people started really digging into those questions, uh, the waters became more and more muddy, right?

[00:04:17] So the, the tenants that we believed for forever that stretching was this really powerful, good thing. Um, we're putting into question.

[00:04:25] Carl Lanore: [00:04:25] And is it, is it possible that it's both depending on and, and people need to say what's more important to me, you know, like at 62 years old, my flexibility is being challenged by a body that's turning to wood and stretching is kind of a good thing for me, you know?

[00:04:42] Is it one of those things where you have to say, look, pick your reason?

[00:04:46] Dr. Dain P. LaRoche, Ph.D.: [00:04:46] Yeah, for sure. Um, stretching is good. Don't don't get me wrong. Um, it's probably more about the timing of stretching. Uh, Ian Schrier, uh, a physician did a nice review article, I think in 2004, that looked at the effects of [00:05:00] pre-exercise stretching and performance, but also long-term stretching on performance.

[00:05:05] And, uh, th the answer is to the question is different depending on how you ask them. So if you say is stretching good for exercise performance. If it's done immediately before, you know, powerful type activities, it does seem to impair them by anywhere from five to 20%, depending on what it is. But if you stretch regularly over weeks and months, um, there's actually a different effect where stretching is associated with increased strength and increased power performance.

[00:05:30] So it's not so much that stretching is good or bad. It may be more about the timing of it. And as you said, you know, what's the purpose.

[00:05:37] Carl Lanore: [00:05:37] Um, excuse me. Can you define ballistic versus static stretching, please?

[00:05:43] Dr. Dain P. LaRoche, Ph.D.: [00:05:43] Yeah. So static stretching is generally where, you know, you, you change the joint position where you're, you're placing a stretch on the muscle.

[00:05:51] Uh, usually, you know, you're instructed to reach some end point of mild discomfort and you hold it there for anywhere from 15 to 30 seconds. Whereas [00:06:00] ballistic stretching would be more of a bouncing type motion where you're moving in and out of the stretch, you know, maybe once a second or once every two seconds, um, And you know, that that has probably some crossover with this idea of dynamic stretching, where you're putting the joints through a range of motion in a dynamic, you know, pre-exercise warmup or something

[00:06:18] Carl Lanore: [00:06:18] like that.

[00:06:19] Can, can you, can you really do, um, dynamic or even ballistic stretching? So when you think of stretching, you're putting the muscle at a very compromised position because of its ability to adapt to the range of motion that you, you think it should have. And so, um, And, and in order to do that, to join, to become at risk, right?

[00:06:42] Because the whole purpose of, um, well, not the whole purpose, but part of the purpose of the muscle, uh, is, uh, is to, to keep the joint from overextending, say the elbow, you don't want yell about a bend backwards, right. And the bicep and the brake yields help achieve the stability of that joint. Is it [00:07:00] really possible to do ballistic stretching considering that.

[00:07:05] To really achieve it. You would have to put the joint at some risk at some point in the motion.

[00:07:11] Dr. Dain P. LaRoche, Ph.D.: [00:07:11] I think when people do do ballistic stretching, they hit that same point of mild discomfort that you do with static stretching. You know, so you're not going through a complete range of motion of the joint.

[00:07:22] You're not pushing the joint to its extremes. You're hitting that point of tension and you're going into that stretch for a split second, and then you're bouncing back out of it. Um, So you actually bring up two things there. You know, one is ballistic stretching, potentially bad for you. And, uh, there's really no evidence in the medical literature that ballistic stretching, you know, as I described it is harmful to the muscle and, you know, I like to tell people, you know, think about doing a maximum dead list or a squat or running down a mountain.

[00:07:53] Or any of those types of activities, even a rebound and basketball, the loads on the muscle are so much higher with an activity [00:08:00] like that than they would ever be during a ballistics. True.

[00:08:02] Carl Lanore: [00:08:02] True.

[00:08:02] Dr. Dain P. LaRoche, Ph.D.: [00:08:02] So your chance of hurting yourself, doing a little bouncing coat touch, you know, I mean it's, when you really think about it, it's, it's a little bit rigid.

[00:08:10] Carl Lanore: [00:08:10] No, you're right. You're right. Um, so talking about pre, uh, stretching, uh, acute stretching, right before a movement. I remember reading an article. That, uh, basketball players have very tiny calves, little, little gastrocs, but they have these long Soleil laces and these long straps of tendons and that their ability to jump is for lack of better terms, the preload, uh, resistance that that tendon adds.

[00:08:45] Is it possible that some of the strengths that's lost? And, and, and let's say before you lift weights, you, you stretch is, um, making the tent. You [00:09:00] kind of lose the rigidity of the tendon that you're hoping is going to contribute to the distance snap back of force. And by strikes watching it, you kind of make it a little more pliable and you don't have that preload any longer.

[00:09:13] Dr. Dain P. LaRoche, Ph.D.: [00:09:13] Yeah, Carl you're, you're exactly right. You know, the, the technical term for that is stiffness and it's, it's an engineering term. You know, when you, when you create a stress versus strain curves, you look at the change in length of the muscle relative to the change in force. And, uh, you know, so if you want to think of an example, most people might be familiar with, if you think of like an elastic band, you know, like a resistance band, the real thin ones, it doesn't take much force to get them to change length.

[00:09:39] Whereas the thick ones, it takes a lot of force to get them to change

[00:09:41] Carl Lanore: [00:09:41] like a rigid, more rigid.

[00:09:43] Dr. Dain P. LaRoche, Ph.D.: [00:09:43] Yeah. The, the thin band is less stiff and the thick band is, is much stiffer. So the ability of the thin band to store energy is significantly less than the thick band. So when people think of stiffness, the term of stiffness, they often think of it as a, with a negative.

[00:10:02] [00:10:00] Carl Lanore: [00:10:02] Oh, I hope he can hear me. I think we just lost your internet connection. Oh, you're back. So what happened? We lost you right at the point where you said about the negative connotation of stiffness.

[00:10:18] Dr. Dain P. LaRoche, Ph.D.: [00:10:18] Okay. Yeah. So, you know, stiffness, you know, you think of it as a negative thing where in reality, with stretch shortening cycles that are dynamic in nature, um, you, you placed the muscle tendon unit into a LinkedIn position and that elastic energy is stored in the tendon.

[00:10:34] That's returned during the concentric phase. Uh, of that activity. So when you talk about the tendon playing a role in jumping, um, it's really important in the biomechanical studies have shown during walking and running that the tendon contributes like double the power of the muscle. And in fact, there's a really neat study that looked at changes in muscle length and the Achilles versus, um, tendon length or sorry, in the gastric.

[00:10:59] And, uh, they [00:11:00] actually showed that the, the muscle contracts isometrically during, during running and jumping. And it actually the change in length that lets your ankle flex is happening in the Achilles tendons. That's fascinating. It is. Yeah. So if you think about the, that the, the tendon is actually doing, you know, two to three times the power that the muscle is doing during jumping activities, um, that's a new appreciation.

[00:11:21] I think

[00:11:22] Carl Lanore: [00:11:22] that is fascinating. So talk about your study. How was the study designed?

[00:11:26] Dr. Dain P. LaRoche, Ph.D.: [00:11:26] Sure. So, um, we had three, while we had one group of people who were college aged, um, men and women recreationally active, you know, um, physically fit, but not athletes. And, uh, they were randomized to three conditions. So everybody did the same three conditions.

[00:11:42] There was a control condition where there was no stretching. There was a ballistic stretching condition where they stretched most of the major muscle groups of the lower extremity. And a static stretching condition. That was basically the same stretches as the ballistic stretching, but held for, you know, 30 seconds at a time.

[00:11:57] And so they did these activities and then [00:12:00] they were placed on a dynamometer, like a Cybex dynamometer that measures strength, um, but in a prone position. And, um, I don't know. Can I

[00:12:10] Carl Lanore: [00:12:10] share my screen? Yeah, please. Yeah, you should be able to do that simply just hitting home. Please take your time.

[00:12:19] Dr. Dain P. LaRoche, Ph.D.: [00:12:19] Can you see?

[00:12:20] You may have to let

[00:12:21] Carl Lanore: [00:12:21] me, I'm going to let them, I'm going to put it up now. Here. I'm adding it's. Okay. So then

[00:12:26] Dr. Dain P. LaRoche, Ph.D.: [00:12:26] there's our dynamometer in the lab. And, uh, basically we attach the foot to a rigid plate and there's a motor there that will move the foot from plantar flection or the toes pointed into dorsi flection, basically stretching the muscle tendon unit, the calf and the dynamometer measures, the resistive force.

[00:12:45] And so what that means is, um, the person is totally relaxed at this point and it's, you're just measuring the tension that's experienced as you stretch the muscle. Interesting. And when you, when you do that, you get a curve that looks like this. Okay. [00:13:00] So, uh, there's an exponential increase in the resistive torque or force that you encounter in the muscle, right?

[00:13:06] As, as you go up, uh, as you change the muscle length. And so from that, we can get a couple of measures. So one would be simply the range of motion, right? So we can measure what is the maximum ankle position that you could achieve. But we could also measure the resistance of torque that's right,

[00:13:23] Carl Lanore: [00:13:23] right.

[00:13:23] Before the, before the muscles are even engaged.

[00:13:26] Dr. Dain P. LaRoche, Ph.D.: [00:13:26] Yeah, exactly. So the muscles past it, but it's relaxed, but you're experiencing and it's elastic stretch like you would with a rubber band. Right. And so from that, we can calculate the stiffness, which is this slope. Of the muscle link versus tension curve.

[00:13:42] And then another thing that I'll talk about is energy storage or strain energy. And this is that elastic energy that is stored in return during jumping or any other type of dynamic activity. And that's actually calculated as the area under that curve. Um, so let me stop sharing here. [00:14:00] Uh, so that gives you an idea of the measures that we took on the dynamometer.

[00:14:03] Right. We then asked the participants do maximal contractions. We did get strength measures and a maximal, um, uh, power test on the dynamometer. Then they were moved over to a force plate and, uh, on the force plate, they did a vertical jump with a Vertech there to measure their jump height. Well, what the forest plate lets us do is measure a couple of things like, uh, velocity of the center of mass, like how quickly they're moving upwards direction.

[00:14:30] Uh, the maximum force is that they generate the rate at which they generate force in their whole body power during the vertical jump. So it's a really sensitive way to look at this vertical jump performance. And so we then tested, you know, were any of those measures different between the static controller, ballistic conditions?

[00:14:47] Carl Lanore: [00:14:47] That's fascinating, um, that, that the fact that you're able to have all of that, those data points. I hope we didn't lose you again. It looks like your screen has frozen, so we'll wait

[00:14:58] Dr. Dain P. LaRoche, Ph.D.: [00:14:58] I'm back.

[00:14:58] Carl Lanore: [00:14:58] Okay. It's [00:15:00] interesting to me because you have all of those data points ahead of time. And now you're going to say, let's see what changes based on this type of stretching versus that type of stroke.

[00:15:10] So what, so what did you learn.

[00:15:13] Dr. Dain P. LaRoche, Ph.D.: [00:15:13] So, um, interestingly, we didn't see a big deficit in strength with either static or ballistic stretching. Uh, we did see a reduction in power of about, uh, let me look here real quick. Power was down about 8% in the

[00:15:29] Carl Lanore: [00:15:29] now for those of us who are going to you, wait a minute, you said there was no difference in strength, but there's a difference in power.

[00:15:34] Explain from, from a, from a clinical standpoint, what you're looking at in each of those cases.

[00:15:40] Dr. Dain P. LaRoche, Ph.D.: [00:15:40] Okay. So the way we measured strength with isometric maximal isometric contraction on the dynamometer, which is different than if you were doing like, you know, a maximal bench brass or something that was dynamic and went through the stretch shortening cycles.

[00:15:54] So I think that might be part of the reason. Um, there was no change in muscle length during the strength test, whereas the power [00:16:00] test requires. That the, that the, you know, that the ankle be moving throughout the test. And so that was done actually at a different velocity at a higher velocity on the dynamometer.

[00:16:08] Uh, and, and that was, there was a preload there, as you said, where the muscle is actually placed in the stretch position so that the person could then powerfully.

[00:16:19] Carl Lanore: [00:16:19] Right. Interesting. Okay. So there was, there was no, there was no significant difference. Between these two, where there was a significant difference between power and strength.

[00:16:28] I was so fast to ask you that question that I,

[00:16:31] Dr. Dain P. LaRoche, Ph.D.: [00:16:31] yeah, so there wasn't really a major effect of stretching on strengths, but there was about an 8% reduction in power for the static stretching and about a 3% non-significant reduction in power or ballistic.

[00:16:45] Carl Lanore: [00:16:45] Do you think that's because ballistic does. Have a lesser effect on the stiffness of, uh, of, of the soft tissue involved.

[00:16:56] Dr. Dain P. LaRoche, Ph.D.: [00:16:56] I think there's two factors. One is the, is that ballistic in [00:17:00] theory when w would affect the stiffness less because you're only placing the muscle at a Lincoln position for a short period of time. We know that when muscle and tendon stretches it exhibits what's called disco elastic behavior, which means it loses tension over time.

[00:17:17] Right. So if you get into a deep hamstring stretch, you feel it start to slowly release over time, right? So stretching gets you to that point, but boom, you're back out of it. And so there's not that time for that viscoelastic stress relaxation. Um, the second is probably neuronal excitability. We know that the stretch reflex is attenuated with static stretching.

[00:17:38] So when you hold a position of a stretch for a long period of time, you're shutting down the, the sensitivity of those muscle spindles. They play a role in the stretch reflex. Um, so I think it's probably a combination of both, although we can't say for sure. There's probably less muscle tendon unit changes with the ballistic stretching and probably some preserved neuromuscular excited

[00:17:57] Carl Lanore: [00:17:57] does different type of muscle fiber or [00:18:00] different muscle fiber type play a role in the response to ballistic versus static stretching.

[00:18:07] Say you have a distance runner. They have long sinewy muscles versus a sprinter. Who's got almost muscles in their lower body, like a bodybuilder, you know, More fast Twitch. It, does that play a role in your outcome from stretching? Yeah,

[00:18:23] Dr. Dain P. LaRoche, Ph.D.: [00:18:23] that'd be really hard to speculate. Um, those studies have not been done.

[00:18:28] Okay. You know, obviously we need muscle biopsies to get the fiber.

[00:18:31] Carl Lanore: [00:18:31] Yeah. Nobody wants muscle biopsies. When they

[00:18:32] Dr. Dain P. LaRoche, Ph.D.: [00:18:32] see me, including me, um, Yeah, I'd have, I'd have a real tough time saying anything about fiber type versus response to dispatching interventions. You know, I think maybe the power might be more compromised, you know, in, uh, in somebody who's focused on that than the endurance activity, but,

[00:18:51] Carl Lanore: [00:18:51] okay.

[00:18:52] What exactly is work absorption? That was something that a metric that you use to you will learn, right?

[00:18:59] Dr. Dain P. LaRoche, Ph.D.: [00:18:59] Yep. So that was the [00:19:00] area under the muscle length tension curve. And you can think of it as stored elastic energy. Okay. So  is another name for strain energy or elastic energy. Um, you know, if you think about a bow, the bow and arrow, you pull, pull the string back and you store energy in the limbs, and then when you let go the energy of return.

[00:19:21] So that's what works.

[00:19:22] Carl Lanore: [00:19:22] Okay. Okay. Okay. So, um, was there any significant difference in, um, the. Uh, static versus ballistic, that would make you say, well for this type of an athlete, this is a better way to stretch.

[00:19:44] Dr. Dain P. LaRoche, Ph.D.: [00:19:44] Um, so you do see generally speaking, um, greater changes in those stiffness work absorption parameters with the static stretching.

[00:19:56] In other words, if you do want to reduce the stiffness, [00:20:00] let's say, um, You were a gymnast who was just trying to achieve a certain position that required a lot of flexibility or a dancer. You know, the, the static stretching would actually help you achieve that greater range of motion because it would cause the muscle intended to relax a little bit more.

[00:20:16] Um, I vaguely remember a study or two that looked at endurance athletes for some muscle groups. They had better running economy following static stretching because you kind of freed up, you know, the muscles about the joint. So the limb could. Swing more, more

[00:20:31] Carl Lanore: [00:20:31] freely with less

[00:20:31] Dr. Dain P. LaRoche, Ph.D.: [00:20:31] resistance. Um, so there may be some, some instances where you're trying to improve range of motion instead of stretching would be the more appropriate technique for that.

[00:20:42] Carl Lanore: [00:20:42] Now, if, if someone is a, um, weekend warrior, they do cardio, but they've focused on weightlifting. Does it make more sense to do static stretching after training with weights?

[00:20:55] Dr. Dain P. LaRoche, Ph.D.: [00:20:55] Yeah, that's the general recommendation, you know, do a light warmup, whether it's, you know, [00:21:00] lifting the way to the lighter weight or going through a dynamic warmup or even some light cardio before you lift.

[00:21:04] And then if you're working on trying to maintain, you know, your flexibility and range of motion, do the, do the stretching afterwards. And that's actually a really good time for it because the muscles are already warmed up and there'll be more pliable and susceptible to that stretching at that point.

[00:21:18] Carl Lanore: [00:21:18] And that, and I want to take a quick commercial break. When we come back, I want to talk about something that you just kind of implied too. And that is that there was a study once that implied that, uh, uh, stretching before weightlifting made you more prone to injury. I don't know if you remember that was going around maybe about a decade ago.

[00:21:37] And a lot of personal trainers would saying, Oh, you know, you don't want to stretch before you train because it's, you're, you're going to be more prone to injury. Let's address that and find out if it's a myth on the other side of the break. Okay.

[00:21:48] Dr. Dain P. LaRoche, Ph.D.: [00:21:48] Alrighty.

[00:21:49] Carl Lanore: [00:21:49] I stay tuned. We'll be right back with more stuff.

[00:21:50] Super human radio. Welcome back. We're talking with Dr. Dane P [00:22:00] Laroche from the university of New Hampshire. So we have some comments I'm going to put these up because they kind of lead into the question. Um, Peter Rouse, who is a, uh, uh, he we've actually done shows in the past about, uh, plyometrics and stuff like that.

[00:22:16] Um, he saying you don't stretch, then try to do a max lift. You first perform warm ups. And you indicated that you, you, you did say that. So he posted that before we, we discussed that, um, Brandon Green said. What about ISO extremes, Jay Schroeder, what are ISO extremes? And what's the purpose of them?

[00:22:40] Dr. Dain P. LaRoche, Ph.D.: [00:22:40] Uh, that's a new term for me.

[00:22:41] I dunno if, uh, if we can define that for me, that might be helpful.

[00:22:46] Carl Lanore: [00:22:46] You could put a little bit more, uh, Brandon about what that is. Uh, how about yielding isometrics at the stretch position? What is that? Any idea?

[00:22:59] Dr. Dain P. LaRoche, Ph.D.: [00:22:59] Yeah. [00:23:00] Sounds. I mean, I'm just speculating here, but it sounds like, you know, you get into a LinkedIn position, you know, where the muscle is stretched and then, and then perform some contractions there.

[00:23:11] Uh, you know, the thing I'm thinking about is the length tension, relationship of muscle, you know, that's like an inverted U and you produce your peak for roughly about 50% of resting muscle length. Um, and there's, there's definitely something to be said about trying to increase your strength at the ends of the range of motion.

[00:23:28] Um, because that's where the muscle is weakest. And there are studies that show that, you know, that the gains in strength are joint angle specific, you know, so if you're trying to build strength towards the, you know, the, the, either of a lengthened or shortened end of the muscle range of motion, um, that seems like a good idea, particularly for activities.

[00:23:48] You know, where you're finding yourself in those, in those positions routinely, you know, if there was a sport that required a lot of crouching and or something like

[00:23:55] Carl Lanore: [00:23:55] that, do you know who Doug  is by any chance and do not? [00:24:00] So this, this question, he can't answer this, uh, bill, um, Bill Doug bronchiole is a, uh, um, he's written a, uh, he was just on my show recently.

[00:24:11] He's brilliant guy. He's 61 years old. He's he's super muscular, super lean. He's got a he's in great shape, never had an injury and he's developed a style of training. I focuses on isolation movements, but he looks at the way the muscle was developed to move. And then you do isolation movements based on that.

[00:24:32] And you know, he's not a fan of like the squat, for instance, he's, you don't have to squat, you can build big legs and big strong legs, but it's not fair to, uh, put that question there because it's, um, it's, it's a bio biomechanical expert and former Mr. America, correct. Thank you. Um, yeah, here, in other words, not angle specific, I guess he's talking about his, um, uh, yielding [00:25:00] isometric, or let me see what question was that?

[00:25:02] I, so I, so extremes, but I mean, that's still doesn't tell us what, what we need to know. I think to answer the question properly. So, um, No, no, no one is suggesting and Peter Ralph's posted here. Who, who stretches and then does a max lift without warmups? No one is suggest suggesting that at all. Um, w w w you don't do anything without a warmup, uh, unless you want to injure yourself, but what about, um, probably about a decade ago.

[00:25:30] There was some rumblings, uh, amongst the bodybuilding forums. And so on that stretching before training made you more prone to injury, where did that come from? And is there, is there any validation to that? Oh, we lost the internet connection again. Just bear with us folks. It seems to just drop out here and there.

[00:25:51] Dr. Dain P. LaRoche, Ph.D.: [00:25:51] I think we got too many people on the home wife.

[00:25:53] Carl Lanore: [00:25:53] Yeah, I think so. So, so what, w where did that come from? Where did that come? Yeah.

[00:25:57] Dr. Dain P. LaRoche, Ph.D.: [00:25:57] Yeah. So, um, I I'm [00:26:00] thinking, I don't recall any study, you know, and, um, I've, you know, I read the literature pretty regularly and I could have missed it, but, you know, sometimes, well, oftentimes things come out of practice before they've been researched.

[00:26:12] Right. And I think that happens more often than not, you know, people experiment in the gym, they figure something out, they notice trends. Um, and, and. Sometimes there's credence to it. And other times after we do the study, is there isn't, but I could definitely see where if you, if you did stretching before exercise and you did have that know anywhere from five to 10 to 15% reduction in strength, um, in that, you know, if we go with this idea that the attendant is doing some of the work.

[00:26:44] And you've, you've lost the ability to store some of that strain energy, the tendon, then the load gets transferred to the muscle. So one thing I like to think about, and I tell my students, this is that, you know, for any, for any joint action in any activity, there's two things that are contributing [00:27:00] to the force production.

[00:27:01] One is the elastic energy storage and the tendon, and the other is the act of muscle contraction. And they some to give you the total force production of that muscle right unit. Right? So if you're losing some of the ability to store and recurrent strain energy, that load is being shifted more so to the muscle.

[00:27:15] Uh, and you couldn't get yourself in an overload situation. Um, if you did have that reduction in stiffness and energy

[00:27:20] Carl Lanore: [00:27:20] storage. So

[00:27:22] Dr. Dain P. LaRoche, Ph.D.: [00:27:22] I definitely see a mechanism there. I just don't know if it's been

[00:27:24] Carl Lanore: [00:27:24] studied. It makes sense because if you're looking at, if the sum of everything working together is 100% of your strength and, and, and, uh, doing static stretching before training, uh, is eliminating some of that, that.

[00:27:41] Strength that we're getting from stiffness or however you want to put it. And more work is being done by the muscle, uh, or the muscle can't really handle the weight that you used to handling. And now you're going to injure yourself. So it does make sense. Uh, Peter's pointing out that they perform static stretches between sets [00:28:00] that of Mac Lee, max lifts.

[00:28:01] He believes it was in the, like the leg leg extension. And I think that was something like, uh, that I had heard back then as well. Yeah. I mean, you know, um, I think stretching should be looked in the same way as you do any other training, any stress you put on the muscle is going to deplete the muscle's ability to continue working.

[00:28:22] Uh, to handle maximum. I mean, no one would say, go in and do 10 sets of this weight in this movement. Now go and train that body part. You say, no, you just did 10 sets. Like your body part is going to be exhausted. I kind of feel like stretching should be viewed. Um, Even though the, the desired outcomes are different, uh, that should be viewed the same way you do.

[00:28:49] Uh, anything else, a warmup or a set of something you're, you're taxing the muscle in one way or another. You're going to change the way that muscle functions after that stretch. Would that be a fair [00:29:00] assessment?

[00:29:00] Dr. Dain P. LaRoche, Ph.D.: [00:29:00] Yeah, certainly. And one thing we found when digging through the literature is that there appears to be a dose response relationship.

[00:29:06] And what I mean by that is, you know, the studies that show. No, the biggest negative effects of stretching on strength and power, um, seem to be the ones that had the biggest stretching interventions. You know, some of them are like 13 sets of 30 seconds of stretching or another one was done by a dynamometer where the dynamometer was cranking the muscle through, you know, a full range of motion stretch once a second.

[00:29:30] You know what I mean? People don't normally do that. So, you know, if you go on you and you do some light static stretching, but. You're not really taxing yourself. I don't think it's going to have a major negative effect on your performance. Um, and then the second thing is the time effect. Um, and when you do reduce the stiffness and work, absorb absorption capacity of the muscle, it returns back to normal anywhere from 15 to 45 minutes post stretch.

[00:29:57] So if you did a light warmup and you did some [00:30:00] stretching and you kind of went through a, you know, setting up your, your gym or through some life sets or something, 20 to 30 minutes later, you might not experience any that effects of the stretching at all. Uh, and that's what we found in our study with the vertical jump 20 minutes, you know, the vertical jump wasn't done until 20 minutes after the stretching, because of the other measures we were making.

[00:30:19] And there was no negative effects on vertical.

[00:30:22] Carl Lanore: [00:30:22] Yeah. So what we're really talking again, that this kind of feeds into what I was just suggesting that that stretching should be viewed. Like any other thing that taxes, the muscle and recovery, uh, is, is, is gonna, uh, reverse everything back to its, its, its uh, previous settings, if you will, for lack of better terms, but that makes perfect sense.

[00:30:42] You know, you, you, you know, um, guys who are going after just strength gains. We'll rest five minutes before sets. Why? Because they recover better and they can be strong again. But those of us who were looking for metabolic conditioning, uh, or lactate, uh, [00:31:00] training, you know, w we're going to rest one minute.

[00:31:02] We're not as strong on that second set as if we would have rested for five minutes and this comes full circle to what I said, I think stretching needs to be viewed just like anything else you do in the gym. It should be, you know, it, if you know that. Working your body for an hour is, is all you can give it.

[00:31:20] And then you want to do 15 to 20 minutes of stretching before and then work for an hour that needs to be added to the load of what you're doing to your body that day.

[00:31:30] Dr. Dain P. LaRoche, Ph.D.: [00:31:30] Yeah, I agree.

[00:31:31] Carl Lanore: [00:31:31] Um, about, so, so, um, one of the things that I started doing years ago, and I haven't done it in a law time was stretching underload, uh, uh, Dante true Dell.

[00:31:45] Made this very popular back in, uh, uh, 1990s, uh, with his dog crap training and it worked well for me. Uh, it's designed to not only strengthen soft tissue, [00:32:00] uh, insertions and, and originations. Um, but there's a lot of evidence that stretching under a load increases. Something that you probably have no interest in, but the, the, uh, androgen receptor.

[00:32:13] Biosynthesis and tissue. And that's a big thing. If you're using gear, if you're using drugs, you know, you want more into receptors that are going to be stimulated by the drugs. And basically like in a, in a bench press, you would take, um, two, 100 pound dumbbells and you would lay on a bench and you would come down and you would just allow the weight to just literally tear you.

[00:32:37] Like pull, you pull your pecks apart and it would hurt. And I used to do it. I used to do it for a time, a minute and a half, you know, I do two or three sets of that for a minute and a half. And it was so painful while you were doing it. But. My chest never responded better. I'm one of those guys that has a hard time growing his chest.

[00:32:58] When I started doing loaded [00:33:00] stretching. Every that was a game changer for me. And I probably will reinvestigate it here. Now that I'm talking about it. Any, any value do you, is there any research, anything in the literature about loaded stretching?

[00:33:12] Dr. Dain P. LaRoche, Ph.D.: [00:33:12] Yeah. First of all, that sounds like a medieval torture rack.

[00:33:14] Carl Lanore: [00:33:14] I know it was, it really was. It was.

[00:33:17] Dr. Dain P. LaRoche, Ph.D.: [00:33:17] Yeah. Um, there was evidence of stretching, induce hypertrophy, and, uh, I don't remember the exact title of the study, but there was a long time ago. They did a study with weights on chickens, wings, you know, where they were basically held in a stretch position. They were dragging these things around.

[00:33:31] And I remember that there was an increase in the number of sarcomeres within the muscle know the muscle fibers were actually elongating and it, it does induce hypertrophy. In a, in a different way than, than you might get from it, you know, an active dynamic type contraction. Um, so, you know, I think that's a neat idea, you know, where you're, you're challenging the muscle in another way.

[00:33:52] And I think for the elite athlete and the high performers who are looking for those additional couple of percent gains, I think that's probably. [00:34:00] You know, a neat approach to try to shake out of your routine. Um, I'd be concerned about doing that with somebody, you know, who's a recreational person, um, unless, you know, unless they start light, right.

[00:34:12] You know, if they did the same thing you just talked about with five, 10 pound dumbbells, maybe they're able to improve their shoulder range of motion. Right. So, yeah, that's, I think that's pretty neat.

[00:34:20] Carl Lanore: [00:34:20] I mean, you have to be strong enough to do this, to push out of it. Like you can't, you can't, you can't take a weight that you're not used to handling and just get into that position and stay there.

[00:34:29] I have done it to where my muscles were so exhausted by the third. Said if you want to call it that, that I, I didn't want to have to push the weight out. I would just roll my elbows out and just drop the wait. Um, but you would have an immediate, like pump that would last you for hours. And, um, it was, it was pretty phenomenal, I guess, loaded stretching works, but.

[00:34:52] Extreme isometrics worked better. And it sounds to me like extreme isometrics is probably like when I, when I think of a, a gym, a [00:35:00] male gymnast, right. They get into that position with the rings. Right. And everything is just locked in isometrically. Uh, and you're holding it until you just completely fail in their case.

[00:35:10] They don't fail. Otherwise they wouldn't be at the Olympics, but I guess that might be more what extreme isometric. Uh, is about, I'm guessing from Brandon zip comments here. We're going to take our last commercial break. When we come back, we're going to wrap up the discussion you're listening to and watching supreme-a radio.

[00:35:27] Share the show with your friends. We'll be right back with more. Stay tuned. Welcome back talking with Dr. Dane, the Roche from the university of New Hampshire about stretching, stretching. You know, I keep waiting for the, uh, the, the one piece of research that says, this is how you do it. This is what you do it for.

[00:35:52] This is when you do it, you think you can extrapolate for the audience. Uh, you know, so. If you wanted to say to [00:36:00] people, okay. Uh, best practices for stretching. If your goal is this, do it this way. If your goal is this, do it that way. What do you think?

[00:36:09] Dr. Dain P. LaRoche, Ph.D.: [00:36:09] Sure. So, you know, if you look at like what the American college of sports medicine recommends for, uh, for health and fitness, they actually recommend that most Americans participate in stretching, you know, three to seven days per week or something like that.

[00:36:21] Um, so it's, it's been, you know, Thought of as an important component to an overall healthy lifestyle. Right. Um, so, you know, you have to think about whether you're stretching for performance or just trying to maintain flexibility, you know, to reduce low back pain or, or things along those lines. You know?

[00:36:40] So I think that, you know, the general recommendation is that everybody should be doing some type of stretching. Um, you know, whether it's yoga or. Dynamic ballistic, static. I think that matters less, you know, that, you know, other words, that they're putting their muscle through emotion. Um, and you know, when, when we do go through like a full body [00:37:00] stretching and you always find that muscle group, you're like, Oh my God, I didn't know that one was so tight.

[00:37:03] You know, sometimes you find those things and you can work on them when, when you do regularly stretch. Uh, whereas, you know, if you just go through your, your usual routine in the gym, you might not. So as

[00:37:14] Carl Lanore: [00:37:14] far as best practice, But I hope you can hear me. We lost you as, as far as best practices

[00:37:25] we lost. We lost you at as far as best practices.

[00:37:29] Dr. Dain P. LaRoche, Ph.D.: [00:37:29] Yeah, the best practices would be, you know, maybe three to five sets of 15 to 30 seconds, strata X stretching for each of the major muscle groups in the body. Right? If you did that, you know, two or three or four days a week, it could be doing yourself good.

[00:37:41] Now you wouldn't want to do that before your exercise, as we've said, you know, there is some evidence that static stretching in particular, B.

[00:37:53] Carl Lanore: [00:37:53] Th the internet is becoming less and less. Co-operative doc

[00:37:58] Dr. Dain P. LaRoche, Ph.D.: [00:37:58] arrogant.

[00:38:00] [00:38:00] Carl Lanore: [00:38:00] Just pick it up from, uh, three to five days a week. Right.

[00:38:05] Dr. Dain P. LaRoche, Ph.D.: [00:38:05] I didn't mean to static stretching, you know, major muscle groups, um, you know, 15 to 30 seconds, you know, per stretch, um, and avoiding doing that before require strength and power.

[00:38:18] Right. You didn't do it on your cardio day, maybe. Right. You know, after you finished your cardio workout or, or whatever,

[00:38:25] Carl Lanore: [00:38:25] what do you think? So, so like I get in my inversion table at the end of the day, because by then. Gravity has been pushing my spine down continuously more and more. So I'm as compressed as I'm going to be at the end of the day.

[00:38:37] So I get in the inversion table, I decompressed and I get in bed and I stay in that decompressed state for eight hours. Right. So you think if somebody said, you know what, I want to stretch more. I don't want to stretch before training. I get to the gym. It's like, I just have barely enough time to train. I don't want to have to stretch for 15 minutes before or after you think just stretch first thing in the morning.

[00:38:58] Stretch last thing at the [00:39:00] night, at the end of the day, what do you think

[00:39:02] Dr. Dain P. LaRoche, Ph.D.: [00:39:02] if you're looking for time to do it, you know, when you're sitting there watching TV in the evening, why not get off the couch and do a little bit of commercial breaks or whatever? And if we have commercials anymore.

[00:39:11] Carl Lanore: [00:39:11] Yeah, I know, right?

[00:39:13] No, I, I watched, I watched Pluto TV. They have plenty of commercials

[00:39:19] Dr. Dain P. LaRoche, Ph.D.: [00:39:19] and just mixing it in. I mean, I'll find myself standing in line somewhere and like, Oh, I'm feeling tight and my low back and I'll reach down and, you know, Without shame, do a hamstring stretch somewhere in the middle, you know, out in public.

[00:39:31] But, uh, Yeah, I don't, I don't think it has to be something there you're carving out big chunks of time. You just need to kind of work it in where you can.

[00:39:38] Carl Lanore: [00:39:38] What did our ancestors do? Uh, when I, when I say ancestors, what did our, our laboring prehistoric ancestors do, they hung from trees. You know what I mean?

[00:39:48] They climbed stuff. They did things that had an innate stretching mechanism to it. Right? Look at me. I'm going to sit in this chair for at least three hours today. Maybe [00:40:00] four. I do that five days a week. Um, is, is it as simple as that, is it as simple as that maybe there's people out there who don't really need to stretch because their day to day activities, you know, I keep saying the guy who moves my lawn is going to be healthier than me.

[00:40:16] Dr. Dain P. LaRoche, Ph.D.: [00:40:16] Yeah. You know, and even, even, you know, doing resistance training, you're putting the muscles through range of motion. So there, you know, there was a myth for a long time that resistance rate people have poor flexibility, right. They can't do this and can't touch their toes looking at Olympic lifter and how close their buckets to the ground when they're doing a snatch.

[00:40:32] Right. Um, so, you know, I, I totally agree with you. If, if more people were engaged in more whole body rigorous activity on a daily basis, it wouldn't be as much of an issue. Uh, so I actually, I worry less about the people that are doing routine full body workouts. Um, And worry more about the people, like you said, that are, you know, working in an office and then they spin on a bike for 30 minutes and they call it good.

[00:40:57] Carl Lanore: [00:40:57] Yeah, I know. Right. Peloton, you know, it's funny, right? So [00:41:00] we, we, you know, you, you get up in the morning, you sit, maybe you have breakfast, maybe you don't, you sit on the train or you sit on the bus, you sit in your car, you get to your office, you sit in your office. Uh, you leave your office, you go home, you sit down for dinner, uh, and then you sit and watch the news and then you lay down in bed.

[00:41:17] And, you know, it's really funny to me because everybody wants to know why, you know, we're such a sick society and I can tell you for, in fact, I'm going to talk after, after you're done with your interview, I want to talk to the audience about. The importance of just walking every day. I, you know, for years I was, I did cardio every day, an hour, hour and a half of cardio every day.

[00:41:41] It was part of my routine. And then I had two foot surgeries in 2019, and I wasn't even training legs and my lower body fell apart and walking became a chore. And so I avoided walking and I realized now that I've avoided walking to the point where I have. Maladies. I'm [00:42:00] not going to call them illnesses because I'm already reversing them just by walking every day again.

[00:42:05] And so, uh, you know, when we look, when we look at the level of illness, everybody wants a point that something, well, it's fat, it's meat. It's, uh, it's this it's, it's the lack of activity. It's just the, because what I've learned in, in, in the past 20 years, because you don't know my big beginning, but I used to be 330 pounds.

[00:42:25] I was being fitted for a pacemaker. Wow. And like, I don't take anything except I take testosterone and thyroid hormone and that's it. And so. Like when I look at how I got sick in the first place, and it was from lack of activity. And I can tell you that no matter how sick you are right now, if you just try, do your best to be more active, you will get better.

[00:42:47] It won't happen overnight. You know, you can't take 10 years and destroy your body and go, I'm going to get better in six months. You've got to give it some years, but. The lack of activity in our population today is really at the root of all the [00:43:00] illnesses that we have here. And all illnesses would you'd fare better if you just were more active.

[00:43:05] And if you were more active, you probably wouldn't need to stretch as much. Cause you'd be up and around and doing stuff, bending over and lifting things up. You know, it's, it's just, it's. Everybody wants Toba diseases of modernity, all the disease of modernity in my humble opinion, come from the lack of

[00:43:20] Dr. Dain P. LaRoche, Ph.D.: [00:43:20] activity.

[00:43:21] Yeah, it's a big one. Um, you know, muscle now is being seen as an endocrine organ. That's releasing cytokines are having positive effects on distant organs and tissues. Um, and you know, from everything from the brain and dementia to cardiovascular, pulmonary health, metabolic diseases, uh, there's some really neat research coming out about timing of it, of walking and exercise after meals and glucose control.

[00:43:43] I know I may walk after breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Will do wonders for helping you regulate blood sugar.

[00:43:49] Carl Lanore: [00:43:49] But I, but I, I, I have to be honest with you. Um, so rest and digest is a real thing. Um, there are things that we do because we are a sick population [00:44:00] like fiber, for instance, fiber is all the rage today because it lowers gastric emptying, which blunts, uh, the glycemic index of, of high, high glycemic foods.

[00:44:11] But if you look at us from an evolutionary perspective, high fiber was a problem. Our high fiber ancestors Australopithecus. Spent all waking hours finding and chewing food. They had huge distended guts because they were literally eating tree bark and stuff like that. You talk about fiber, um, but fiber in modern day today, is it even back then?

[00:44:38] It was a disadvantaged. You, you, it, it took longer to digest. You had to eat more so fiber in a sick population like we have today. Yeah. It's a remedy. But if you're healthy, you don't need a lot of fiber. You can just get the fiber from the vegetables that you're including in your meals. And the reason I point that out is because yes, you're right.

[00:44:58] There are two well done studies that show [00:45:00] that walking after a meal, Lois, postprandial glucose, better than Metformin. Just free. Yeah. In fact, one study showed standing after a meal, not even walking, standing after a meal blunted, the high blood sugar spike seen in people with diabetes, this standing. But the reality is that if you're healthy, And you're strong and you're vibrant, resting after a meal is more important and that's why rest and digest is a critical aspect, but that's, you know, w w w today we look at things through the eyes of a sick population.

[00:45:38] And so it's a, it's, it's a, it's a little murky. Let's just say what's your, but for sick people. Yeah, just standing after me. In fact, I want them to do an ad campaign on TV called, um, Uh, S stand there for a meal to cure your diabetes and have celebrities showing that they just finished a meal and they're going to stand up and walk around the house.

[00:45:59] Maybe [00:46:00] we could find some dancers to dance after a meal, and like, whatever your activity is, just get up and move after a meal and you'll cure your own diabetes, but it's hard to do today because people don't want to do it. Right. They don't want to do it. So in summary, what would you like both clinicians and lay people to take away from your study?

[00:46:21] Dr. Dain P. LaRoche, Ph.D.: [00:46:21] Sure. Um, you know, I, I think, you know, like we said, the misconceptions about stretching before exercise as being performance improving and potentially reducing injury risk. Um, th there's not much evidence in that area, although the long-term stretching seems to have positive effects on. Strength and power and range of motion.

[00:46:44] So including stretching in your usual exercise routine is important. You just have to be a little bit careful about the timing of it. If you're looking to maximize performance,

[00:46:53] Carl Lanore: [00:46:53] great stuff. Listen, thanks for being here today on the show.

[00:46:57] Dr. Dain P. LaRoche, Ph.D.: [00:46:57] Yeah, that's great. I appreciate it.

[00:46:58] Carl Lanore: [00:46:58] Take care. [00:47:00] We're going to take one quick commercial break.

[00:47:01] And when we come back, I'm going to talk about something that I started doing for the new year and it's changing my life. Once again, stay tuned. We'll break. It's fascinating. Uh, bill Bergman and Peter Rouse, have a great discussion going on the Facebook post, going back and forth. Peter Rouse makes a really good point here.

[00:47:23] I want to put it up. He says, it seems like the majority of people are fat and lazy these days. Interestingly, this never gets discussed when looking at helping those at risk of COVID he's right. But the problem with it is, um, if they want to be protected from COVID, it may be too late. Um, they, they had to start a year ago or even six months ago.

[00:47:47] Um, but. He's right. The truth of the matter is like with this COVID epidemic, if the majority of people were healthy, we wouldn't, are you [00:48:00] scared of this virus at all? They wouldn't, it wouldn't have the death rate. We know that the susceptibility to die from this virus is for those over 70, but there's a reason for that because of the accumulation of senescent cells and there's ways to rid yourself of senescent cells and.

[00:48:16] Training. Uh, there was one study that we talked about on the show last year that showed that a single resistance training, single bout of resistance training, reduced muscle, uh, senescent cells by something like 68%. And they were still eating a high protein diet, which means that there was still turning on em tour.

[00:48:39] So you're right. Uh, but unfortunately you can't even get people to stand after a meal to lower their blood sugar. How are you going to get them to go to the Jim? Um, yeah, I, I had, uh, I had, uh, Judy, uh, mic of it's on the show twice. I had her on the twice. I, I don't know if you noticed it. [00:49:00] Um, they actually took the video down YouTube, but then they finally put it back up anyway.

[00:49:04] So here's what I want to talk about. As I kind of alluded to in the last interview, I stopped doing cardio. I stopped doing cardio for a couple reasons. Number one, the reminder that my left foot isn't like, it used to be just disgusted me, made me very sad. Um, I lost more muscle in my lower body than my upper body, uh, in the past couple of years because I really couldn't train legs heavy anymore.

[00:49:33] My left foot has led to a left knee problem. I am going to get it taken care of this year. Um, and so I stopped doing any cardio. I was going to the gym and lifting and, and, and I had a lot of false starts where I would train for two months straight and I'd really steep, great changes in my body. And then something would derail me a lot of times it was COVID related.

[00:49:56] The gym would close down. Uh, we have [00:50:00] a new home now we're in the process of building a really nice home gym, but it's not done yet. And so, uh, new year's Eve, I was invited to come to, uh, Brentwood, Tennessee to spend new year's Eve with Aaron Singerman and his family and Elisa. And I went and there was other families there too.

[00:50:19] And it was just a great time. We had a fantastic time with Aaron. So one, so Aaron. Religiously is out the door every morning at six 30, he walks five miles. And those of you who are fans of his know that he does Facebook lives and stuff while he's walking. And he has a lot of people who talk, communicate back and forth with him.

[00:50:40] So this one morning, um, I guess it was. It was probably new year's Eve morning. It was raining and it was cold and Aaron was getting ready to go out to walk. And I says, how far do you usually walk? He says five miles. And I, first thing I thought to myself was, man, I don't think [00:51:00] I could do that. I don't, I don't think I could walk five miles.

[00:51:03] I haven't, I haven't walked a mile in God knows how long, like how could I do five miles? And Aaron didn't push her. He didn't say, come on. He goes, uh, you know, I said, how long does it take you to do five miles? He's about an hour I have. And uh, I said, I'm going to go with you. Yeah, I have crappy sneakers. I got a left foot that doesn't work.

[00:51:25] Um, I got a left knee that wants to cause me problems actually from an old skiing accident. When I was like 19 years old, I lost the ACL. Well, my left knee. And so I said, I'm going to go with you. And I didn't dress warm enough. He warned me. He says, Carl, you need a jacket. You know, you need gloves. And I didn't have gloves.

[00:51:42] And I just had basically a hoodie and a little jacket over it, and that was it. But we walked and we had fascinating conversation, which made the walk go so fast. And so at one point in time, I said to Aaron, how far have we gone? And [00:52:00] he pulled out his phone because he has this app that tracks his, his walks using GPS.

[00:52:06] And he says, um, we've walked four and a half miles. I was like, I can't believe it. I says, I am starting to feel it. He says, yeah, I can tell. He says your stride is starting to shorten. And I felt bad. I didn't want to hold him back. I said, how far are we from the house? And he said a mile. And so he rerouted us and took me back to the house and that he went out and he did another, he did like six miles that morning, but it showed me that.

[00:52:35] My willpower is still very strong. My ability to endure, uh, pain and discomfort is still very, very strong. And I've acquired that over decades of heavy resistance training. So I downloaded the app and I've walked every single day. Now. Every single day, I haven't missed a day, only 45 minutes [00:53:00] because I'm going to the gym in the evening.

[00:53:02] So basically now I have, I've gone from being fairly inactive, to very active walk in the morning, go to the gym and train for an hour in the evening. Like today I'm off, I'm doing two days on one day off. So today I'm off, I'll train tomorrow. And the day after.

[00:53:21] The point is I was developing some scary symptoms. I've talked about them on the show, right? My legs don't want to work. Um, I've had three people say to me, you sounds to me like you have multiple sclerosis. I have some balance issues. All of a sudden, well, In just a week's time of walking every morning and going to the gym in the evening, I can tell you, I feel a thousand percent better mentally and physically, I don't have near as bad of balance issues.

[00:53:55] They feel like they're going away. My legs don't hurt. My legs used to hurt all the [00:54:00] time. I told Rob registry of it a couple of weeks ago that. My legs burn all the time. Like I just finished running 10 miles like this lactate bill and my legs. Aren't hurting me at all. In fact, I wake up in the morning and I, my, my legs are very flexible and responsive and I jogged down the stairs and it's like, Oh my God.

[00:54:22] And this is just after a week. This is just after a week. I remember watching a documentary about babies. Alyssa. And I watched him and babies. Once they learn how to walk, they, they, they they'll do 15,000 steps in a day. In fact, walking is the number one biggest achievement that launches us everything, the growth of our body, the growth of our brain, everything walking could be potentially just walking one of the most important.

[00:55:01] [00:55:00] Acts of activity that we as humans have. And so many of us don't walk anymore at all. I'm going to start exploring more shows about walking, Oh, by the way, my lower back, my lumbar spine that was bothering me and causing my hip to hurt all gone in a week, one week, doggone the hip feels great. The lower back feels great.

[00:55:28] I'm telling you. Walking is magic. Um, finding reasons and ways to walk more should be your goal for 2021, really park further away from things and walk, walk to places that you can walk to start walking more. I guarantee whatever it is that your goals are, and, you know, to be stronger, to be leaner, to be more muscular.

[00:55:57] To be healthier, to have better blood [00:56:00] pressure, to have, uh, faster working brain. I guarantee you I'm saying this and I know you got to say Carl, how can you say that? How do you know it all started with walking more? I got a good feeling about this. So in 2021, I hope that everybody makes the effort to walk more.

[00:56:18] I will work. I'm going to work up to five miles a day. Aaron has a group of people. They have a challenge, 500 miles in 100 days. I'm going to be part of that group very shortly. So right now I'm at 45 minutes soon, I'll go to an hour and once I'm at an hour and above, then it, it, it it's game on. I'm going to do 5 million, five, uh, five miles a day, every single morning.

[00:56:40] I'm going to start my day, by the way, no more caffeine. I gave up caffeine completely. So here's another fascinating thing. Remember how I've been saying for so long that I really believed that caffeine coffee more importantly, is at the root of a lot of gut problems in this. Uh, I'm [00:57:00] getting, I'm actually getting some good walking shoes now, Peter, cause the shoes I have are unstable.

[00:57:05] I'm getting the Brooks glycerin, um, Those are the ones that Aaron walks in. He says, they're the best walking shoes. You can find Brooks, glycerin. I'm going to get those. But yes, I need good walking shoes. Absolutely. Um, but what I was saying was the other thing that I discovered, so we were talking about coffee and I gave up coffee and Aaron said to me, by the way, first of all, Aaron Singerman is in the best shape.

[00:57:33] I've ever seen him in and I've seen him prepare for bodybuilding competitions. His upper body is massive. His shoulders are huge. Has arms are huge. It tapers down to this tiny little midsection, boom. And then these big tree trunk legs sprout out. Aaron looks fantastic. He said I can't drink coffee. I said, why?

[00:57:55] He says it gives me bubble gut. And I've talked about this on the show. I said, I think a [00:58:00] lot of people have distended stomachs because of the coffee that they drink. I'm more convinced of it than ever. I think people will pay attention to their bodies. Like bodybuilders will tell you that when they drink coffee, their stomach starts to pooch out.

[00:58:14] We're going to find in the next 10 years. Coffee is at the root of all the gut problems in America and all the gut problems in America. At the root of all of the autoimmune disorders, you eliminate coffee and your autoimmune diseases will go away. Not overnight. It's not going to happen overnight. It's not even happening to me overnight.

[00:58:34] It took years for your gut to get EFT up. It could take years for it to get better, but it's easy to stick to a plan when you're confident that you're going in the right direction. Eliminate coffee. For 2021, try it. See what happens. See what beneficial things happen. That's it for today. Uh, please share the show and, uh, help us grow the audience because the more people we reach, the more people we can help, [00:59:00] I will see you tomorrow with more super human radio.

[00:59:02] And thank you for being here today.