Anthony Roberts
A new study published in the Journal of the American Medical Association discovered some 776 dietary supplements that contained at least one pharmaceutical ingredient that was not listed on the label. While the headline was getting lots of attention once you dig deeper some very surprising information becomes very apparent. PLUS Many of us read articles showing dietary supplement that fail their label claims. But a less noticed more insidious strategy is being used by many supplement manufacturers that they hope you'll overlook. And its adding millions of dollars of profits to their bottom lines.
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[00:00:00] Hey, hey, welcome back to a special episode of superhuman radio. It's Friday. I'm normally not on the air on Friday. But today we make a special exception because guy who has the distinction of being the. Longest-standing repeat guests on my show and we will be 13 years. The third week of November in production is Anthony Roberts and he's going to be on the air with me in just a minute.
[00:00:58] Of course. I have to [00:01:00] thank. All-American Pharmaceuticals in EFX sports for their title sponsorship of the show you can get six of the top selling products absolutely free by going to superhuman radio dotnet clicking EFX Sports Banner ad filling out the form with your name and address and you will pay five dollars and change for shipping, but the truly the shipping fee you're going to get a box of goodies.
[00:01:21] You're going to love it because dr. Jeff believes that nobody should buy anything until they've tried it first. Welcome back Anthony. How you doing, man? Good, how are you? Good. It's amazing 13 years. You've been on the show with great regularity. Isn't that something? Yeah. Yeah. It's well, you know, I was thinking about this earlier.
[00:01:41] There's a certain. This is certainly something to be said for you know for consistency, I guess in the industry, you know, first of all, you have the distinction of being the first guest ever to have the entire hour as the interview and [00:02:00] that was when I was still with Clear Channel because back then I should do a half hour with one guest half hour with another guest but you were the first guest back in 2006 to do an entire hour with me when I was with Clear Channel and today you are.
[00:02:13] The longest running repeat guests on this show over 13 years and you're right, you know something funny. But I am like you in a lot of ways and that is every morning I show up for work. You know, it's like I just show up and do the work that's it and people like man 13 years. It's like, you know, it's like nobody gets excited the fact that I took a shower, you know every day for 13 years, you just get up and do it and that's how I look at the show.
[00:02:39] I just get up and do. Yeah, it's funny like back then. You know there was like to me back then, you know, every time someone came along and they were sort of, you know, disruptive in the industry. I sort of I took notice and maybe that's because I was new to the industry but. [00:03:00] Now I kind of say yeah, where's this guy ten years ago, right.
[00:03:04] What's he doing? And where's he going to and more importantly? Where's he going to be five years from now, there are so many people. So first of all, and I want to talk about the topics at hand in a second because they're very important and I don't I'm not looking to Pat my own back my arms don't bend that well, but the reality is that I have watched so many people come and go from podcasting over the past 13 years and.
[00:03:25] They come into podcasting health and fitness and then three months later. They're actually changing their MO and now they are blockchain gurus and you know all this there was an eye. I know one guy. I'm not going to mention his name that had a huge Fitness audience and then one day he said I'm not going to do my podcast anymore because there's really nothing new to talk about and fitness and I'm like, what are you even talking about it?
[00:03:47] It's like sure there's a foundation that stays the same but there's always new information when we talk about health and fitness and longevity. Always. Yeah, and there's people you know every I mean, I don't know about every day, but [00:04:00] let's say every day every day. Someone gets, you know, a PhD and to get that PhD they've had to have done a doctoral thesis that just edges us that moves the needle a little bit, you know, and now we have a new body of work by a guy that dedicated, you know for years to this and it moves the needle.
[00:04:20] Yes, you know, I mean to say there's nothing new I mean. You know some stuff doesn't necessarily stick around like a couple years back. We were talking about, you know - now you can Kyle's room occlusion overwhelming - Dad where did - that and go remember - that I was communicating with doctor say gently and he was like, so hopeful about myostatin and muscular dystrophy and stuff like that and it today it's we don't have anything happen with Maya stand anymore.
[00:04:48] No, well, the guys the guys that were pushing the very first myostatin Inhibitors product or selling Thea cream now, you know, so it's like to me and that's the thing. Where were you 10 years [00:05:00] ago 10 years ago. You were pushing something that didn't pan out. You know today you're pushing something that doesn't that won't pan out now.
[00:05:05] I got it. It's it just goes around and round. So and then we're talking about the supplement industry today. The whole show is about the supplement industry and you written to really great articles recently. The first one looked at a study. That identified over 700 dietary supplements that have pharmaceutical drugs in them.
[00:05:24] But this was kind of a clickbait headline wasn't it? Yeah. Yeah the Journal of the American Medical Association. It's really quick baby because. The I guess the products that had the most adulteration in terms of you know, having an Undeclared pharmaceutical ingredient. We're like. Gas station.
[00:05:48] Yes pills. Yes. Yes, and I got to tell you something. There's a there's a caffeine pill out there that's called Super Magnum. It's 200 milligrams of caffeine [00:06:00] and. I've taken a thousand milligrams of caffeine over the course of a day and hydrous. There's something else in that pill because I've taken it and I don't feel like it's just caffeine and this is one of those things that's hanging into the convenience store / gas station on a rack and you're right.
[00:06:19] All they have is fat loss and boner pills now out there. Yeah, and but here's the thing and you know, I speak to this in my article is that if I were to say to you. Name ten dietary supplement you would never say Rhino XXX Corps until right. Exactly. Nobody would say that. So, you know, it's counterintuitive to list them and say and I realized that they technically legally they fall under the category of dietary supplements.
[00:06:51] But the average person lacks the sophistication to understand or to really to have the desire to look past [00:07:00] the headline and say like most of this stuff intuitively, you know is Shady yes, you know to stay away from unless you're looking for. That pharmaceutical which is which is again, which is fine.
[00:07:13] Right? Right. If you want Viagra get Viagra, you know, right nothing wrong with that. But yeah, you know to sort of put these in the same category, as you know protein powder is yeah, it was ridiculous. And when you look at protein powder, I think I mean was there like in 10 years there was like maybe one product made the list.
[00:07:38] And so let's talk about some of the adulterations like it's obvious that the boner pills generally have some sort of pde5 inhibitor probably low doses because people guys are going to take six of these because they want to have a bigger hard on but that we know that they have those types of things in them.
[00:08:00] [00:08:00] What were some of the other adulterations like in the fat burners I would imagine there had to be some things right? Yeah, there were some so, you know one of the two fence ends whichever one I think sibutramine or salbutamine, right? Right. Yeah, you know basically an appetite suppressant or.
[00:08:23] You know a traditional diet drug and anorectic, you know, that's what you're going to find in there. I recall there was something called star pills that had a diuretic in it. So that's also going to going to show up, you know, basically stuff that you would expect in a diet pill, you know, but what's so okay.
[00:08:45] Everybody knows wink wink that those pills. That those Shady pills that you're not buying them at GNC you buying them at the convenience store you buy them at the gas station. We all know there's a high probability that they are laced [00:09:00] with some Pharmaceutical. But why what does the FDA do about this?
[00:09:06] I mean the FDA crushes legitimate supplement companies for ridiculous stuff. What does the FDA do they put those guys in the business? Actually, you find a lot of warning letters for these things, you know, so the fact that the FDA has found so many of them that there's you know, something like out of the 700 or nearly 800 products.
[00:09:26] Something to the effect of 300 plus so the FDA does go after them and does find them but you know, is that a wise allocation of resources would be the other question. I mean what would be it was so what would be a better allocation of resources? What do you do with you guys? Well with the gas station boner people, I think you know, do you really want to go after them or you want to me?
[00:09:52] You have to have some kind of Duty imposed on the gas station, right? Because they're the sole distributor. You [00:10:00] can't really get these pills the average person can't get them other than at a gas station. So I think that's really the way instead of the sort of whack-a-mole. Way that they're going after you know, the company go after the distributor.
[00:10:16] So if the distribution do you think it you think that the this approach like if you have a if you if you decide, you know, I'm going to come out with a pill but I'm going to use a natural drug in it. I'm not going to go to GNC with this. I'm going to go through the gas stations that that's actually a strategy them.
[00:10:35] Right? Yeah, and a lot of times you know, what they do is they. Yeah, they contract your you know, a go to a contract manufacturer and the manufacturer is only running. You know, let's say 10,000 right 10,000 single pill doses. That's nothing right because the average rate the average nutritional supplement is a bottle of a [00:11:00] hundred right but these are being sold by one or two in a pack of the blister pack, right?
[00:11:04] Yeah, they run very few at a time. They do it on the weekend on an off shift, you know, they have sort of an under-the-table deal and then their sales people just go around. Like let's say to 7-Eleven, right? I don't want to say 7-Eleven specifically, but let's imagine right they go to the local 7-Eleven which is going to be, you know franchised by someone and they sell them direct and so you're really you're never going to you're never going to really stop it by going after the people making the pills and the people making the pills smart enough not to leave a paper trail.
[00:11:41] They'll say oh we didn't know we bought these drawers from China, right? You know, they contain that gun and let's face it. They get a letter from the FDA and if usually a warning letter they comply by since its limited runs is change out a name of the product changing the name of the [00:12:00] company and they go back in and they hate now.
[00:12:02] We're calling it stacker for instead of Stacker 3 and they just they just keep taking down one sign and putting up another sign. They become a totally different business in the FDA really can't do anything. No, I mean, you know since it was you know, so predominant in this report. It is kind of I mean, I don't know do we say that because they busted so many they really are doing something or do we say that because they busted so many they're unable to really stop it.
[00:12:30] Right? It's I don't know which way to go on that but now let me ask you a question. This is a strategy. By a lot of supplement companies inside the body building Community as well the strategy like without naming names there were some body building supplement companies that started to cross the line into research chems, like the growth hormone secreted Gog six hours.
[00:12:55] OMG hrp to wherever the [00:13:00] 677 one the liquid orally administered one. I can't be. Yeah. Okay. I'm K 677 so. There have been dietary supplement companies that have sold MK6 77 in capsules and they with the understanding that we're going to blow this out. And then when we get the cease-and-desist letter from the FDA we stopped but in the meantime, we just made like $750,000.
[00:13:24] Yeah, and I can tell you that, you know companies frequently work with the FDA when there's going to be a recall voluntary recall quote unquote the company's work with the FDA and they figure out the terms of it. I can tell you that a major company while they were working on terms. Of an FDA recall did a run that was three times bigger than any run they had ever done while they while they were working with you working on it while they were working with the [00:14:00] FDA to compose the text of the recall.
[00:14:03] They ran it was it was a best-seller at the distributor. It was a best-seller for the next nine months after the recall. There was a very popular product and I mean, I don't think anybody probably sent it in during the recall and people were stocking up. It was recalled and then more popular isn't that they made a ton of money on The Recoil it granted.
[00:14:29] They lost a best seller. But they made a ton of money on the recall. Well, they lost the bestseller that they shouldn't have been selling in the first place, you know, like it's not like there's no they got hurt by the FDA. They were actually breaking the law, but they knew that there was a buffer period where they could make money breaking the law before they would be for now, you know.
[00:14:50] If you understand that happen, and how does the FDA not know that happened and why doesn't the FDA punish them because these kind [00:15:00] of loophole approaches is what makes it, you know back in the day when I was a kid growing up in Queens in South Ozone Park Queens, you know, and this is this was like part of one of where John Gotti's clubs were and when I was a kid there were guys.
[00:15:18] That knew they were going to go to jail for doing something but they knew that they were going to make enough money doing it that when they got out of jail, they were set they so they would they would call it. I'm going to college they would say oh, yeah, that's what I've always.
[00:15:31] Yeah. Well I called it is college. Yeah. I'm going to go I got to do six years in college. It's like yeah, but when you come out, you're not only our own College. Yeah, you said you got money and you got respect. So, you know one of the things that that that the mayor I can't think of his name Rudy Giuliani did was he used the RICO Act to go after these guys and not just put him in jail, but then crush anything that they potentially had coming out of jail and then all of a sudden College wasn't there a really good idea.
[00:15:56] Why isn't the FDA going? Wow, these guys [00:16:00] just pushed through a run three times the size. They're playing a game here. We need to we need to we need to punish them. We need to send a message to the industry. You don't sell stuff that you're not supposed to be selling and know that you're going to have to stop selling but make as much money as you can while you're doing it.
[00:16:16] Well the FDIC here's the thing right about the loopholes that mean that wasn't a loophole the FDA could have if they knew if they had known or if they knew they could have gone after them for that because they're sort of negotiating in bad faith. Right but these loopholes in the companies that exploit them whether it's by, you know, anything, you know, putting some ingredient in that's not yet.
[00:16:42] Prohibited but sort of is yeah. I mean that's so it's just not actionable right the FDA. I'll have to send a warning letter and then they made their money and they get out and whether it's that or whether it's you know, patent trolling or Lanham trolling or any way of making money that you know, sort of dubious.
[00:17:01] [00:17:00] The laws always playing catch-up, right? So the law the law doesn't tell good men what to do with tells bad men what not to do interesting. So these people are just saying doesn't say do you know don't do this and right you wanted until well it got hard and hearkens back to that and everybody's heard this at least once in their life you better off asking for forgiveness than permission.
[00:17:26] Yeah, and so that's really what it comes down to you play dumb. You do the deed and then you got all we didn't know but now we're out of it anyway, but you made all that money. I want to take a quick commercial break when we come back. I want to talk a little bit more about this specifically the fact that this was designed to probably scare.
[00:17:43] A lot of people who won't read the whole study off of dietary supplements, but more importantly. We've talked about the industry policing itself for decades now and this kind of stuff hurts everybody. It really does and I want to talk about that when we come back [00:18:00] stay tuned. We'll be right back with more superhuman radio.
[00:18:04] Welcome back. If you want to read some of Anthony Roberts writing you can find them on medium.com and as he just pointed out to me, he doesn't write like he used to the only rights when something really deserves attention. You won't see him. No, it's what you know, you know, you know, you know what that does I gotta tell you something.
[00:18:24] I just had a guy that actually was one of the guys that I met a Clear Channel 13 years ago. He said to me, you know, you got to respect people's time. Don't just put content out there because you want to put content out there and when people do that when they write things that need to be written people always read them because you're respecting their time.
[00:18:45] Yeah, and that's the way I feel you know, there's topics just as an example of stuff. I've done over at Mark rock where I file a freedom of information request and then I'm waiting for months and I [00:19:00] don't you know. I don't write until I have the information and I think to a degree that's my deal with anyone who's you know, goodly enough to give me some of their time that they're never going to get back.
[00:19:13] Right? Right that I'm not going to waste it that they're going to they're going to get their three minutes Worth, right? Whatever, right? No. No, I agree. So getting back to this. This discussion at hand, we've talked for decades literally about the industry policing itself. So that the FDA doesn't come in and police of supplement industry.
[00:19:32] Is there is it is that really something that's what capable of doing given the fact that some of these companies were talking about a really kind of outside the box of what we consider the supplement industry. You know, well, alright so not to answer the question but should. Like so like Jeff golini, right?
[00:19:52] Should he be interested in policing 7-Eleven boner pills? Right? Like that's got nothing to do with [00:20:00] him or his company and or you know Saito sport or Muscle Milk, should they be interested in policing the Bad actors that are kind of way outside of the industry. I don't think so. I think there should be honestly there should be a separate branch of the FDA and I say this.
[00:20:25] totally seriously that there should be a boner pill division of the FDA because obviously it's the biggest. You know the biggest violators we don't need to look at, you know protein powders. There was one in ten years right multivitamins. There was one to I'm sorry, too contaminated multivitamins in the past decade.
[00:20:49] These are not areas that we need to police. What was the protein powder? Is that the one that had the monoamine whatever it was melamine in it. Is that the one? [00:21:00] No, I you know, I forget there was there was. You know, I don't even remember what the protein powder was, but it was clearly like a contamination issue not a purposeful altered the adulteration I got you.
[00:21:14] Okay, right as opposed. I mean look, you know MusclePharm got hit they had dnp like some minuscule quantity of dnp in some protein powder these sold in Europe, right? I mean it was it was minuscule, but see but see, okay. That one I find hard to believe that it's it was cross contamination because who's putting dnp in anything today except maybe fat loss pills and that's purposeful adulteration.
[00:21:41] Like why would you even find DMP on a line with a maple? I yeah, I don't know. I mean or was it. Yeah. I can't even I couldn't imagine how it got in obviously if it was purposeful, but I think I recall that it was at a dose. The that would be lower than any realistic dose to get a [00:22:00] physiological effect.
[00:22:01] And you know and I feel the same way about there was like five milligrams allegedly of some kind of an ???? and of light. Right, right the vitamin for men that cement that was the mail vitamin, right? Yeah, but it was I mean if and the company produces or produced at the time and Android product five milligrams that to me that doesn't speak to purposeful adulteration because you will get no physiological effect.
[00:22:31] Like there's no benefit to her that I got. Yeah, and so that's an error, you know, putting sibutramine in a fat burner. That's not an error. Yeah speaking of which you know they were so you so what I address my articles these two outlier, you know years and one of those years was the year the FDA Crackdown.
[00:22:57] On pro hormones. They said [00:23:00] all these things are adulterated but that is very misleading because those are products that were on the market the year before and it reflected a change in posture at the FDA. I start cracking down so to say oh this Spike that didn't necessarily Spike. It's more that the FDA said we're going to start going after this and you know, and we're going to.
[00:23:27] Interpret the law this way Ryan. We saw that in two separate years. So once you start picking away at the outliers in this study, it's always awesome and power pills, right? There's no story that you have FDA changing their posture and you have guessed ition boner pills take that out and you have you know, a couple of dozen products being adulterated per year, right?
[00:23:53] So it's not as big of a problem as they want to make it look but you know, the headline is really [00:24:00] astonishing. It's like 776 dietary supplements contaminate with pharmaceutical drugs, but that high of a number I would imagine most people go I got to be taking one of those. Yeah. Yeah, and yeah what they what they don't you know realize is that they're probably not taking.
[00:24:18] You know, I mean now, you know, yeah, you know, you know what's gonna happen now, I just thought of this because we talked about before how these companies they'll they cash in on the product being banned and you have why everybody stocking up? Yeah, if anything guys are going to stop buying those boner pills at gas stations going to go.
[00:24:34] Wow. They really do have tadalafil in them. You know, they really do have sold out a philan. Wow. I'm just gonna go buy those. Yeah. No, that's and that's exactly right and you know the FDA really? I think it's a poor location of you know resources to go after that sort of a thing, you know, again, it's unless you want to just have a division that goes after that and that [00:25:00] makes me really that makes sense.
[00:25:01] Right? Because you know, the government has regularly. Allocated money to start a division of enforcement whether it be law enforcement or you know, drug and forth. They regularly started divisions because there is this unusual pip of a problem in this one category. They've done that before. Yeah, absolutely.
[00:25:22] And so. You know if this is really the kind of thing that people are worried about then address it more robustly or you know, or leave it alone. See these are boner pills you don't care. I would like to see the unit patch though, if they if they had a division just for this because I think it would be amazing.
[00:25:43] What would the see the want the unit tax the unit patch like the special patch they get like for their division. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I see what you're saying. Yeah, I think that would be great. It would it could be it could be a it could be a green penis with the two tracks like from a from a [00:26:00] tank instead of a cannon it would be a penis sticking.
[00:26:03] That's what it was. Yeah, and they do get pretty they do get pretty creative with their with their unit patches. So yeah, that's really funny. Okay, so I want to take a quick commercial break and when we come back I want to change the topic because this is actually something this is an article that you just released today at medium.com.
[00:26:23] Yeah this week. Okay, and so and it's about margin shaving and you know when I saw this. Article, I exact the exact reaction that then you go and elucidate in the article where it's like, oh, you know big deal a gram, you know, a protein powder says is suppose to be 22 grams a scoop. It ends up being 20.
[00:26:46] It's okay. That's not bad. That's not bad. Like we become so complacent. Yeah and what you're saying is these companies depend on that complacency because that's just another area for profitability for. That's exactly right. Okay. So let's do this. Let's [00:27:00] take a quick commercial break. We're going to change it up.
[00:27:01] I'm going to stay with the supplement industry. We're talking with Anthony Roberts. You can go to medium.com and search for him. He's got so many great articles there and we're going to talk about when something is just shy on the label claims. Many of you probably go off. It's not too bad. I'll just adjust my dosage, but the reality is you're paying for it.
[00:27:22] You're not getting it stay tuned. Welcome back.
[00:27:30] You know Anthony. I have a router in my office that I have to unplug and plug back in probably two or three times a day to reset it. You ever have that problem? Yeah now I mean not that frequently. But yeah, okay. And so I learned about this company called Euro and they're brilliant and I will tell you why, you know, I spent a lot of years in RF in the mobile telephone and then cellular business.
[00:27:56] So the routers we have today like the old imts mobile phones. [00:28:00] You got one site feeding the whole town then when cellular came along. They were able to handle a lot more traffic a lot more bandwidth because they had these small cellular areas covering a whole city and it's brilliant. It was it was amazing.
[00:28:15] It changed mobile telephones. Well this company Eero has done the same thing two routers. What they have done is they now have a route a package that comes with two beacons. And so if you have a two-story house, you know that maybe your Wi-Fi doesn't work that good upstairs. You put a beacon up there in my office.
[00:28:37] My cell phone doesn't work because Verizon has bad coverage in this area town in. This office is highly shielded. So I depend on my router to carry my cell phone calls, but it doesn't work great either once I get out of my studio. Now, I can walk all the way down the hall and still use it because of this new Eero system.
[00:28:55] It's. Now do you think you're dead spots in your house? Like just one like I [00:29:00] guess spots like rant random just one spot is totally dead. This eliminates it this is because you would just put a beacon up there and that would be it. I mean it really is what cellular did for mobile telephone 0 is doing for routers and it even gets better.
[00:29:14] They give you an advance package that gives you more security. The ability to block content like if you have children and you don't want them, but you know checking out you porn.com. You can block that you it gives you complete control on what actually you have access to you can block ads you can better security than any router you've ever had better coverage and any router you've ever had.
[00:29:43] It installs in seconds. I put the system in my office myself with two beacons and the router and it took me like maybe 20 minutes with everything and it was up and running. And by the way, I haven't had a reset at once yet and to me that's a big deal because I had to reset this router [00:30:00] all the time.
[00:30:01] I mean the last time I reset my router I know if you remember this there was like somehow there was a hack that got into people's routers. And they just kind of recommended resetting it and it's you know, it's a pain right? Well, well Eero blocks all that stuff too. They check their they check sides against the database of millions of known threats before they let it into your router.
[00:30:25] I mean, this is this is amazing. This is really the next generation of routers. And remember, I don't know if you I don't know if you're in the New York area. I guess they have beacons in the in the tunnels now going into New York City, but it used to be like you got like a tenth of the way in and you had no coverage you satellite radio went out.
[00:30:45] Everything went out right and now they have I guess that same sort of idea but for routers, it's brilliant. Yeah, it's brilliant. That's great. I will never in fact, I just ordered Euro for the house because. My router is in the [00:31:00] basement where the entertainment system is. And when I go upstairs on the third floor, I have very little Wi-Fi coverage now be able to put a beacon up there.
[00:31:07] Yeah, that's where everyone I mean. I would imagine everybody puts their router in the basement. I mean, that's so then if you have multiple floors, you don't get anything by the top floor euro is offering my audience the base package which includes two beacons and a year of eero plus. If you go to eero.om/shr and use the code shr at checkout, you'll save $100 off of the base package with two beacons.
[00:31:36] It's an amazing deal. Look most of us are still using that same Antiquated router that we've had for years. It's time to step up life is too short to have bad Wi-Fi. We depend on Wi-Fi so dramatically get with eero. Oh man Step Up. Okay, so let's talk about this other article that [00:32:00] you just released and it's really interesting because as you point out in the article, I had the same reaction.
[00:32:05] What's the big deal 2 grams of protein powder less than the than the label claims, but that is a big deal, isn't it? Yeah, so let me let me set the table. So basically. You know, I'm right. bunch of protein powders lab tested and. People look at them and they'll say oh, you know the brand I use is it's within two grams under you know, that's really close.
[00:32:34] Yeah. We're actually I'm actually happy. Yeah, we're happy about that. Right? It's like, oh it's only 2 grams under that is the part that drives me. Insane is that people are so conditioned by the supplement industry to accept that. You know that difference like do you walk into you know GNC or wherever you get your supplements Amazon you give them 20 bucks.
[00:32:58] You don't give them 19. You don't say [00:33:00] here. It's close. But the company's four years have thought it is okay to just sort of come close right and give you one two, three, and that those are companies we considered good. Right now that are that are one or two grams under and that's not that frankly.
[00:33:21] That's not the way the law is written. You have to meet or exceed the label claim. And so but there is I guess there's this talk about foods and dietary supplements that are manufactured but they come from food products, which foods it's different you point out like an orange has an estimated.
[00:33:41] Amount of sugar for a given right size, right? Yeah. So this turns on the distinction of class 1 and Class 2 nutrients and a class one nutrient is an added nutrient like the protein the [00:34:00] protein powder, right? They I think I'm getting that right and then the class 2 is actually occurring.
[00:34:05] So with an orange you have a 20 percent Safe Harbor. Right or what, you know whatever with the steak or so you have the Safe Harbor and what I've seen in litigation is companies will say now. We have a twenty percent variance and the courts are so far have been unanimous in rejecting it saying what why do you think that what you're selling is not a fabricated food.
[00:34:34] It's not okay to give people less than they pay for and. Yeah, when you do the math, right so you let's imagine a company that sells hundreds of thousands of jugs of protein per year. And each serving is 1 gram off right in the 20 gram serving that means you know, every year a jug has 30 [00:35:00] servings in it, right?
[00:35:00] So that's 30 grams that is being drawn 30 servings at 20 grams just to make the math. Write something like that. Okay, you know cuz that's what you usually get 20 25 grams of serving. Right? So every year you're getting ripped off of an entire jug. now that to me that's huge. Right and you put it in those terms to people, you know that and again it's whatever it is.
[00:35:27] It's 50 bucks, but it is inconceivable that a company who's selling hundreds of thousands of jugs per year. Doesn't know that all of a sudden they have a million dollars in their account that they can't figure out where it came from. They know where it came from it came from, you know, that that margin shaving just that one or two grams that they get off.
[00:35:51] Each serving. Is there is there is there any other industry that people accept less? And pay more for it. Like if you pulled up to a gas station and you paid for [00:36:00] 10 gallons of gas, but it only pay pump 9 would you be happy with that? Yeah. Yeah, and you know, that's the thing that drives me nuts is the people see that it fails.
[00:36:11] By grammar by 2 grams in just say that's pretty good. It's not pretty good. It's literally a failure and the FDA doesn't allow for this, you know companies are trying to say oh this is you know, this is this class of nutrients where we have a twenty percent variance and they're stretching it.
[00:36:31] They're not giving 10% I looked at lab door and they were saying RTD is are off by like ten percent on average for protein. That's if you buy a case, that's a whole RTD. That's not there that you're paying for that's amazing that you're paying for. Yeah, and you know you look at the statistics.
[00:36:55] There is no way that this isn't being done on purpose. There's no way a [00:37:00] huge company. Just somehow has millions of dollars at the end of the year and they don't know where it came from. They well, but what so let's talk. Let's talk about this for a second. Let's look at it from the standpoint that we you and I both use these products for decades.
[00:37:15] Somehow some products. They say a level scoop some say a rounded scoop. Now, if you're like me, right if you're like me and you get the product and it says whatever level scoop when you finish the jug two days early, right? Or whatever you think I may be a couple of Scoops were rounded. No, not at all.
[00:37:36] No, not the type of girl. I was mailing two identical jugs of protein to two friends. So on my own dime, right I go to The UPS Store and I put the first one on the scale May charge me and then I assume the second one will cost the same. It is the same product and flavor. [00:38:00] And it came off like half a pound different.
[00:38:02] No kidding. Yeah. Yeah, I mean total happenstance that this happened right that I weighed two consecutive same product. But yeah completely off and there have been times where I'm using two products. Like let's say I'm mixing a creatine based pre-workout with citrulline based pre-workout, right?
[00:38:26] And I'm doing equal amounts one to one ratio in terms of servings and I finish one like three days before the other. Other and I'm like, well, this doesn't make any sense. Right? So, you know whether you start thinking was that scoop rounded or was I you know, yeah, this is going on Blair are shaving these marks.
[00:38:50] Yeah. I rounded scoop versus a level scoop isn't going to make you finish to serving. No, and you know, this is one of those things where [00:39:00] people are just conditioned to accept it and companies are in court. They're saying well, we have a twenty percent variance and that's absolutely not the case.
[00:39:10] The courts are saying that is not the case. Do you know anything about capsule fills? So I'll tell you a story I've actually talked this about this exact story over the 13 years that I've been doing the show probably a couple dozen times now. When I first started this whole journey and physical culture and I was buying lots of supplements in back in the day when I used androstenediol and all the other Andro products were available.
[00:39:34] I was buying product from a company called AST research. They were very popular 20. Yeah. I remember that my they were one of the first right and so. One day I bought a bottle of like 19 or I bought like and resting the dial and 19 or dial. I was stacking them and just by chance because I'm not inquisitive ass I am and so I took a couple capsules out [00:40:00] and I looked at one of and I could have sworn it looked like there was some air in it had one colored side in one clear side.
[00:40:06] So I pinched I pinched. And it completely collapsed underneath my fingers. So then I poured all of them out and I made sure the cops will push together tight right because they can separate I push them together tight and I pinched him and out of the whole bottle. Like let's say there was 60 caps in there like 30 of them were clearly not filled as much as the other 30.
[00:40:28] It was like it was it was so noticeable that I actually took them to a pharmacist because I didn't have a milligram scale back then I said, Would you weigh these for me? I'll pay you he goes. No, you have to pay me. So he weighed them and he gave me the individual weight of every single capsule and he said to me some of these are really way under-filled.
[00:40:46] He said but in the supplement industry there they do have a capsule Phil tolerance of I think he said like ten percent like it could be 10 percent over a 10 percent under and I just took [00:41:00] it that he knew what he was talking about. I don't think any other I never needless to say. I never ever bought another product from AST research because I felt like I was getting ripped off but and maybe they got their problem straight now, but I wasn't going to take a chance on them ever again.
[00:41:12] But what about capsules? Is it different the capsules do they actually have a little leeway in how much they fill them not to my knowledge. I mean, you know. And I've really I really looked over the you know, the court cases because obviously this this is one of those things where there are statutory requirements and then you look over the court cases and try and find out what the what the common law is and no, I mean you really have to meet or exceed and it really doesn't it doesn't matter what presentation we're talking about.
[00:41:49] You do have to meet or exceed so it's. It's kind of amazing that I mean, I would imagine minimum three quarters of [00:42:00] companies out. There are shaving margins like this and they've got to be doing it on purpose. It kind of goes hand-in-hand with the attitude of like well, we're going to release this product.
[00:42:07] We're going to get shut down, but we'll sell as much as we can before we get shut down. It's the same attitude. Dr. Scott Connolly told me a story once he said lots of companies and he didn't mention any names. There's lots of companies get into the bar business. By producing a bar that has less protein and a lot more sugar than its supposed to have.
[00:42:25] Yep. And then once they make millions of dollars somewhere along the line, they start changing their formula and they start straightening it out. Some of them don't until they get caught and some of them never get caught get caught. Yeah, some of them never get caught and I thought to myself. Like I remember when he told me that story I thought well, how could that be?
[00:42:42] I mean, it's surely there's someone watching over but the reality is no there's nobody so the consumer is really at a loss for even validating what's in some of these products if it wasn't for companies like lab door.com and environmental working group and some of these other groups out there that's are [00:43:00] taking upon themselves to test and I want to talk about those groups when we come back.
[00:43:04] I want to take a last commercial break. And when we come back, I want to talk. I want to ask you your opinion on I trust you implicitly in this type of thing because what I know about you for as long as I know you is that you you're not biased about anything you you report the truth. So that means that one day a guy who's your friend the next day.
[00:43:23] He hates you. Because you're not biased I want to know what you think about these companies happen the other way by the way to I don't people get the wrong idea. It's happened to someone hated me and then became my friends. Oh, I know. I know that I know that exactly but you are not biased I want to know what you really think about some of these organizations that are taking it upon themselves to test products.
[00:43:42] They to be right back with more of Anthony Roberts.
[00:43:47] Check out Anthony Roberts articles on medium.com. so Anthony. What do you think about these self-proclaimed organizations that are trying [00:44:00] to expose the Bad actors in the supplement industry. Are they legit or they pay for a pay-to-play type organizations? Well, so, you know just using lab door I think lab door, you know, they.
[00:44:15] Couple years ago, you know, they had they had some like a shaky start. They botched the couple tests. They didn't do the tests themselves. They sent them out. So like to me I get it people kind of look at them kind of sideways, but I think they're legitimate. I think they're if I look at their site and see a product does poorly I generally take that to be the truth, so you.
[00:44:44] They're credible to me and they definitely don't have I mean they do have to make money, but they I don't think they make money by showing any favoritism or doing [00:45:00] anything. That's unethical. I think they're a good group. Generally. Is there anybody out there? You don't trust their information that you're kind of you you're skeptic about.
[00:45:10] In terms of like a company that the yeah, I'll be honest. I don't like I don't like the fact that I don't know if they do this anymore, but I don't like the fact that chromaDex both performs lab tests or they used to perform lab tests and sold raw materials. Like raw ingredients. Yeah, I mean they're the ones and the other ones think that the conflict of interest if you're telling me whether my ingredient is good and it competes with yours.
[00:45:39] I don't like Chrome index at all interesting. That's it and back in the day. They used to be the gold standard but you're right. They sell raw materials and their most popular raw material. They just pulled away from the industry. They're nicotinic d-ribose. Whatever it is. They're NiaGen product.
[00:45:55] Yeah there Dad. Yeah, they literally. Told life [00:46:00] extension Foundation everybody. We're not selling it to anymore going to sell direct after these other organization built it the Elysium lawsuit, you know, they wanted to get into the primary retailer industry and there's a lot of there's a lot of bad stuff in the Elysium lawsuit.
[00:46:20] I think that reflects very poorly on chroma decks and to be honest what? If you look at the human trials I this is might be a tangent. But if you look at the human trials, it increases your you know, your dad levels your whatever but that's all it's been proven to. Do, you know, it's another leap to say and that has this beneficial effect at above physiological levels and and just for the record your body converts NAD from nicotinic acid.
[00:46:57] So equal to B3. Yeah, [00:47:00] so just taking the $6 a bottle niacin but the nicotinamide the nicotinic acid the one that causes flushing just taking that will increase NAD. In fact, the companies that have taken the companies that NAD has been taken away from they have already found the precursor to NAD and it's one step away from nicotinic Acid.
[00:47:22] So I'm thinking to myself. So why do I want these? Why don't I just take nicotinic acid and let my mom dude. Yeah. So here's the interesting thing about that product. Look at the claims. Not the claims for Ned the claims for 4 n are the actual product. The thing in the capsule is NR right?
[00:47:41] Right. Look at the actual claim for NR and all you find is it converts to this other thing, right? That's the only claim and that's all it does and whether or not increasing those levels to a super fidget physiological, you know amount does anything [00:48:00] above anything is still up for debate? Yeah.
[00:48:04] Yeah, it's funny cuz that's how the pharmaceutical industry works. So the pharmaceutical like let's take let's take statin drugs for a second. Yep that the idea that statin drugs. Will prevent heart attacks is because of a poor study done by dr. Ancel keys that said cholesterol causes heart attacks.
[00:48:27] So all they had to do was show that it load cholesterol. They didn't have to prove that. It's that it reduced heart attacks. And in fact when the drugs were first and introduced. All the FDA wanted to see as the end point was that it reduced cholesterol levels in the blood and they leaped and said and that will then but after Decades of prescribing this stuff not only does it not prevent heart attacks because second heart attacks in people taking prescribed statin [00:49:00] drugs is just as high as the ones not taking the Statin.
[00:49:03] And first heart attacks and people who were taking them for prophylactic is just as high as the general population. So then they said wait a minute, but it doesn't prevent heart attacks and the drug manufacturer said, well, we didn't have to prove that. We just had to prove that it lowered cholesterol, right?
[00:49:17] Yeah. Yeah there and statins are you know, they're fairly nasty. Yes, they have so many, you know, you know, what's really interesting. There's a study done. I want to say it was bye-bye. It's either by Pfizer or Shirl. They actually did a study on statin drugs and they had a they ended the study early because almost all of the people in the study developed insulin resistance while on the statin drugs.
[00:49:44] Well, yeah, it's not surprising right given the mechanism of action you would think. Amazing stuff. Anyway Anthony, it's always great having you on the show. Here's to another 13 Years brother. Absolutely. Thanks for having me on talk to you soon. Okay. [00:50:00] And the please go to medium.com and search for Anthony's articles and like them and share them because the guy is brilliant and he has been fighting the good fight way longer than any of us and that's all I got for today Monday.
[00:50:13] I think we have an old man strong show on Monday. John Hanson is going to be on and he is the natural. Mr. Olympia, and he still training and we're going to learn some secrets from him, and we got great shows planned all next week. So please tune in and share the show help build the audience will see you next week.
[00:50:30] Thanks for.
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